The Adam and Dr. Drew Show - 3167 Classic: Brian Koppleman

Episode Date: May 9, 2025

Screenwriter Brian Koppelman joins Adam & Drew in studio for a discussion about a variety of topics including Drew’s hosting method on his HLN show, Brian’s screenwriting workshops, and how to know when the big moments in your life are upon you.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

All right, back to August, 2014, Adam and I start to, Adam and I speak to screenwriter Brian Koppelman from Billions. We talk about a variety of things, including hosting methods on my HLN program, Brian screenwriting workshops, and how to know when the big moments in your life arrive. And it'll be interesting, but historically and otherwise.

So check out this throwback episode. Recorded live at Corolla One Studios with Adam Corolla and board certified physician and addiction medicine specialist Dr. Drew Pinsky. You're listening to the Adam and Dr. Drew show. Yeah, get it on. Got to get it on. No choice but to get it on mandate. Get it on. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm Adam Carolla. That's a very confusing Dr. Drew over there. Confusing. Thank you for admitting you're confusing.

No, I meant confusing. Brian Coppleman is here. He famously wrote Rounders, which I enjoyed quite a bit, and Ocean's 13, which I did not enjoy. We've covered that. I think you liked it more than you say and i wrote those with david levine but how did you guys meet with david levine had adam and i uh... adam and i met

what we met in person here but we had talked before and have a lot of mutual friends like uh... from bill simmons and uh... and writing friends i guess ready for a kevinanschick and uh... the moment was to pursue the friendship is that of the pursue friendship with i don't happen i called in on the five to fan i've been listening to you guys

uh... for years and years and when i would use this kind of split my time when i was young in the music business i'll be driving from recording studios late and i would listen to you uh... and you know you develop this real sort of connection relation relationship and I would be driving home from recording studios late, and I would listen to the two of you. And you know, you develop this real sort of connection.

A relationship. A relationship. And so when the podcast started, I love podcasts, and I would listen. And I think what happened was I called in once when Larry Miller was on, Adam's show. Because I had a great Larry Miller story. And I brought up the Ocean's 13 thing. Adam liked my story and was like, come on anytime you want. So when I had a documentary on Jimmy Connors that my partner and I directed for...

That was 30 for 30, right? 30 for 30, we came in here and that's what happened, Drew. And of course, you and I know one another because... Your sister. My sister and you worked together for a year. Which was a... And I knew your sister for a long... I'm laughing hold on cuz true did Drew you are one of these guys you text and talk and you think you can do both

simultaneously yeah but they're both suffering okay a little bit okay unless you have an auxiliary brain somewhere am I texting right now no when I when I walked in now part of this is on me because all I know is we're doing three shows We that's yeah, I want you're doing a shit. I'm not a shit. I'm not a shitty mood. You are in a shitty first I have no listen to me even know when you're shut up anymore Listen to me first off Brian asked me how the movie's going and I said I don't know because I can't edit it because I'm always here Yeah, and I do these podcasts and we'll get into that in a second I'm flexible to your schedule because you do a lot of traveling and things like that, but it ends up being I thank you

For that. I don't remember. Thank you for that. Yes I walk in and all I know is we're doing a bunch of podcasts today We never you and I don't normally have guests on the show or true or false true I did feel very welcome when you walked in and you go What the fuck is Brian doing here, right? I didn't say for you. It's you or it's just that guy maybe Here I walked in well, here's what we do around here. We don't We never have a guest on this show and then we do have a guest.

Nobody says to me, oh, here's who's coming in tomorrow morning for the first show, did you? Did I block it out? No, I said my bad. Okay, so I come walking into my studio and I see a dude in the distance with a beard sitting at the end of the sofa. And then, and then.

And hold on, let me tie my part. Hold then, and then Dr. Drew walks up to me and he goes, is Brian coming in? And I go, uh, Brian, cause you understand I work with a guy named Brian who has a brain tumor. And I go, Brian, is he coming in? And I said, uh, I don't know. I don't know if Brian's coming in or not. Now let me give you my piece. I have a perspective. Understood. That may be shocking to you.

Understood. But the third time I look really confused and said, I don't know, that's the time to point that's Brian. He's our guest. Here's the deal. When I walked in, Brian said, hey, it's Brian. I'm on your show. No, he didn't.

No, no, no. When I walked in. When Drew walked in, I go, hey, Drew. And Drew looked at me like, whoa, what are you doing here? First of all, you didn't place me. We've met, but you didn't place me. It's a weird environment to see. I'm like, just so we cannot be embarrassed, like what the president does when he walks in line

of dignitaries. You guys tell us when guests who we know is coming in. My agency needs to be asserted here, so hold on a second. So I put Brian in. I want to, my agency needs to be asserted here so hold on a second. So I put Brian together, I've started put together my head and but but the whole time the one of the reasons I was addled I'm thinking I wonder if Brian's on my show or Adam's show or the next Adam and Drew show and why would he be on your show? I don't know! He's four hours early? Maybe. I don't know. Your guest is four hours early. I don't know.

And so I don't want to ask in front of Brian, which show is he on? So when you walked in, I intentionally said that under my breath because I thought these guys would jump. It's their fault. These guys fall over here. Let's blame them. Let's get over with it. Drew, I saw on your face when you saw me sort of panicked confusion, which is why I said

my full name to you. That's why I said Brian Cobbleman. And then I even said I'm going to be on, I think I said I'm going to be on with you and Adam this morning. Yes, you did. But I, but I, my head, I'm, well, no, no, you sit on your show. By my head, it was the guest five hours early. Sit on your show.

You sit on your show. And here's what's great about the team though, and Chris, which is I wrote Chris to say, because you know, when I left last time, you were like, hey, hey when you're in LA let me know, come back whenever you want because I'm such a memorable guest obviously. And if you're really going to be sort of initiated into our environment you've got to be here during a fight so I want to make sure we have a fight. Oh no, the fact that I can cause dissonance is good. Can I say this and I'll let Brian get to his point Drew? Yeah, the human brain at least my brain works

Almost completely in context Almost completely in contact. Yes, I need contact. Yes, and it's not even even if it's a great point by the way So we never have guests on this show ever and I was with all these ass wipes last night And they always give me the kind of rundown. Sorry They've been you've got you guys been promoted to sorry It's always they always the here's what we're doing tomorrow Here's what we're doing tomorrow as I leave so when I hear nothing about you and we never have guests on the show and we oftentimes have

Friends and family members of said asswipes or and or stray fans just sort of sitting in the back you know checking out the show when I come walking in I have no context you see what I'm saying yeah yeah my mind yes it is it is and we have no gas you drew to say Brian compliment to you that would have helped it would have helped the full name everything because I wasn't sure it was this show or the next show and I was pretending like I knew what was going on and so that's really that's why I was on your face. Yeah that's why I was like I don't know which one because I too we don't normally

have guests I'm thinking well which guy which show which one and I and then I got I got going with something else with Chris on the GoPro and all this so I completely forgot that I was concerned about this. You walked in I realized I hadn't straightened everything out, and that's when I started feeling me out. That's why I literally was looking at my phone, not doing anything. So that's first off, some of the best acting you've ever done. By the way, everyone on earth is in your fucking movie except me. Everybody. I needed talented actors. Message received, Maceira. Well done. When I did write Chris to say, because you know, that podcast patent troll documentary, you guys asked,

these guys asked me to be in it. We interviewed Brian at Central Park. Chris was very on top of his own shit. You would never accuse him of not being interesting. They interviewed me for that thing. And so then I wrote him and i wrote a message him coming out uh... i'd love to come uh... on the podcast adam and he said well that show this week isn't gonna work but adam would love to have you on the south you guys had dot discuss this and made a plan well that's this is brutal let me tell you i think i'll call it why you got

the visit let me explain about this is that part of the people who are you know i think Why do you guys let this get to you? Don't even worry about it. He's beating you guys up. I put it in front of you. You can't even take a joke. Can I say one more thing that I was going to love? I don't mean to sell you out, Chris. But I also wrote Chris maybe three paragraphs where I go, you know, because it has seen me a while, let me just tell you some of the things

so that it might be subjects that these guys could know about. And I did give you a whole thing to hand them. They have it. They have everything. Did it mention his documentary? Now it is, and Brian I'm glad you're here, it's just there's a contextual thing like when you see people out of place. Well that's what I was processing. That's why I said my full name.

So you know me and that's why I said, you and I are Facebook friends, you know me. But I said my full name because when you deal with people who are in the public, you don't, for you to, like, It's context. Yeah, my face isn't familiar. So I'm not a famous person. I work in movies, but I'm a famous person. So I always say my first and last name,

which is why I did that to you. But then you just said Brian to him, leaving him in the lurch. Yeah, yeah. Well, and I've worked with a guy named Brian, who has a brain. So I thought he was coming in. And then he said, is he coming in? Not into the studio, but just coming in as if he wasn't in here on the premises. So a lot of confusion. Brian's sister and I worked together. She was my co-host on HLN show and she did a really good job. And she and I knew each other for a long time before that I loved being a guest on her show you ever

done her show at Sirius? I think you did do her show I don't know Jenny Hud. She was Drew's co-host for around a year. Did her show. You did her radio show in New York a couple months back. I'm gonna but see for me and this is how I, how I, well it's an interesting thing, maybe we can talk about this. I don't remember anything, I do remember things like this, and I have this conversation with my wife and other people all the time. They say things like, well the pool man wants five grand to change the filter and then I go, what? And then they go, I told you that six months ago and then I go, no you didn't and they go, yeah I did and then I go, no you didn't and they go, yeah I didn't and I go,

you want to know how I know you didn't say that six months ago? Because right now I'm saying, what? And I'm saying, I'll go down to Home Depot and get the own filter and we'll do it ourselves. I'm having this conversation That's how I know so it's a sort of reactive. Yes memory like I know Six months ago exactly this wasn't said to me or this was said you wouldn't be having this conversation But in terms of like shows I've done. Yeah, I Put those I file those under I don't need these anymore bank that goes into the hopper of I don't need these anymore, bank. That goes into the hopper of, I don't need this information. It's not going to help me down the road. To me, it's a, basically I'm packing, I'm packing for a camping trip and I have a backpack.

And doing someone else's show, no matter whose it is, is an empty can of beans. And I just, I don't want it in my backpack. Because I have a limited amount of space. Some people have all the space in the world for that, but I don't. I'm always, what's the next one? You just load it under, oh is that my sister you just showed? You just load it under a press tour for the book. And it's all under press tour for the book, and then you discard it when you're done. Exactly and I don't want it using up file space in my noggin for because now it does

come in handy on occasion but it's rare occasion. Yeah I always think I have these band members names in my head I was saying this yesterday to my son who is out there like I can name the members of so many rock bands and I wish I could delete those files. Why don't you know John Deegan was the bass player for Queen? That was a useless piece. Early stuff goes in and stays in. Yeah, you just wish you could repurpose that. Do that hard drive, that piece, erase where then you can repurpose and reuse.

Let me tell you, I'll give you something i've learned when i was eight that uh... i could use i could use some space for uh... all the misery about your mom and grandma that i use your pilot guys that guys beating up in the throwing feces on you well they ship in my ear but it wasn't they weren't beating me up there's fun in the water but there's danger too and you got to swim well so nothing happens to you learn how to swim at the YMCA yes that's how to swim but never swim alone safety and numbers don't strike out on the oh and never dive unless you know the water's not too

shallow and it's clear below I've used up a ton of fucking bandwidth in my brain yes and I don't need it anymore right but there it is hmm yes I've used up a ton of fucking bandwidth in my brain. Yes, and I don't need it anymore, right? But there it is Yes, I'm with you and I poor Brian sister got thrown in the scrap heap She's on a garbage barge in my brain being picked at by gulls In lucite it's in Cape I want to go back to shows We've done that we just you and I just forget about Somebody asked me the day if we had done Magic Johnson's show

and I was like yeah I think we did. I have no... didn't we? Well there was a time from like 1996 to 1999 where a whole bunch of black late-night shows. We did them all. Well I think we did. Now here's my recollection. We did Keenan a couple times. Did Keenan 28 times. Yeah, we did that a few times. I knew, by the way, here's how I knew Keenan was done. Because we kept showing up.

Oh, well, I was showing up. He was, we were sitting next to him and we were coming back from a commercial break. And a lot of times guys will roll the prompter to come back from a break before they come back from a break they'll just go they'll do that thing where they go hey prompter guy yeah just roll it and they'll go all right rejoining us and Dr. Drew, Love Line on MTV they'll just roll it so we were just sitting next to him and we like sort of came back or we're coming to the end of a commercial set and He was doing what I thought was rolling the prompter just kind of skimming the thing and doing a thing and then he turned

Us and he said now how's it going over there on MTV and I realized we're oh no We're in the show. This is the show He seemed like like an athlete who was stretching out before. No, that was the race. And you're like, what? That was the race? That's how disconnected he was. He was at that point in the show where he just rolled through that prompter, but the light was on on top of the practice. He did a week of practice guests. I remember we were there.

I was a practice guest on Seth Meyers show. It's an interesting thing to be a practice guest. We were the first practice guest on Donnie and Marie. Remember that? No, we weren't. But wait, I think you missed something. Golden words that Drew just said to you. I apologize. You moved past it. No, I was gonna get back to it. Hold on a second. I apologize, he said. A couple of things, couple of things.

First off, Donnie Marie, we did that show because we had to wait for Pam Anderson who was running late. No, no, no, no, no. I think you're confusing a couple memories. No? Because remember, what's his name the who is the producer Donnie Murray got to have a stroke. American bandstand. Clark came up to us and said thank you for being a member this. Now let me let me say 2 things yeah first off you never did magic.

I did the magic I'm pretty sure I died now we're going to find out please I I did the magic practice show, as far as I know, without you, or maybe you and I did it, but it was a, quiet? Okay. It was a practice show. Maybe.

We never did the show on air. That could be. Number one, you're saying all black people look alike, because that's what your mind is saying, even if your mouth is saying something else. So that's number one. Keenan we did like 128 times. Yeah. And then there's a whole bunch of other shows. There's Vibe,

Chris Spencer and that kind of stuff. Chris Spencer. Yes. So now- Sinbad, remember that? Yes, I do because he said we're as different as heckle and jekyll. And I thought the two magpies that speak with the cockney accent that look exactly the same- Telling them where we go! I should uh See you next week in a brand new show! I think he meant to say Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde Here's clearly what he meant to say

But he said heckle Jekyll and he couldn't have picked two things They were exactly the same I couldn't have picked the same voice, same everything I couldn't tell you which one was different, they were twins, yeah You guys are different, as those twins from the shining So I didn't stop and correct him, but I thought it was that I remember now Donnie Marie. Yeah, that was a quiet Donnie Marie we could have done a practice show on yes, but My main memory from Donnie Marie is we showed up, we were the second guest, and we

were waiting on Pam Anderson. And she was like an hour late. And we kept apologizing to us because we had to go on after her. And then later on, when Pam Anderson was an hour late for MTV, I had my meltdown. And Adam And Adam screamed. He insisted the show begin without her and screamed that we were all enabling her by not waiting, by waiting. We just got to get the show going. And then screamed at the publicist for being so enabling. I like it as a strategy for the argument. We started the show.

To make it's a really great attack that it's enabling it's bad for Pam if we wait yeah yeah it's not that it's a pain in my ass or I don't want to wait it's this is the way out of her I love it it's really brilliant it's the way adults think it's the way parents should think it's the way any instructors or coaches think which is Pam Anderson is perpetually late. Why? Because nobody says a word to that bitch. Her publicist, remember I was standing with her publicist in her dressing room when I

was saying, you tell her, stop showing up late. And she said, it's not my job. And I said, whose fucking job is it? So it's exactly enabling, which is this. She's going to do Donnie and Marie. She shows up an hour and late for for an hour late for Donnie Marie do you think Dick Clark's like hey cunt you cost us two grand or you think it's like okay Pam we understand

completely let's just get you into hair and makeup would you like an Evian right what is the lesson zero show lesson she shows up an hour late to do love line help Pam no we traffic, thank you so much, we're just glad you could be here, no problem at all. Well, if there is a ferry that's leaving the dock at 7 a.m. and it fucking leaves without you a couple mornings in a row, how often you gonna be late after that?

And Adam's move was to shame her on camera. Well, we have a guest, but she's not here because- It's not a bad move. It was good. I said, Dr. Drew, how would this work with any in your line of work? What would you do? Be an enabler? No, you'd move on. I saw a great thing. You know, the comedian Mike Birbiglia? Yeah.

So Birbiglia is doing this new one man show and he invited us to like sort of an early one where he's doing it. And he starts out by talking about how rude it is to be late. Congratulations everyone for getting there on time. It's a really great bit. And then they let a couple stragglers into the theater. House lights up, he walks right up to them in the audience, he goes, what's your reason? What's your excuse? Because you knew when the show started, didn't you? Yeah, yeah. And they go, well, yeah, why couldn't you get here? Well, the train. And he goes, it's always the train. For you,

it's the train. We're just characters in your story. Yeah. We don't exist. Well, that's right. Separately. That's what that means. I was brilliant. It is brilliant. Well, if you want to know the end of the story, after waiting about 45 minutes, and we would gang tape three or four shows a day. So when somebody would be late in the middle, it was big trouble. Everything got bumped back.

And I wanted to get the fuck out of there. So after she was late, and I knew she was perpetually late. I said let's get started Because you and I had done many shows minus the cast. Yeah, and I said we didn't give a shit We like having guests if you remember right we prefer Now you guys have made that extraordinarily clear There does a pot card anyway back to me and Dr. Drew. So I said look let's start the show and everyone said but Pam Anderson's not here and I said we will start the show and then when she shows up she can join the show but we should not wait any longer for her.

It's been 45 minutes as is and we'll send that message and we'll start the show by saying our guest isn't here she's late but when she does show up she'll come as is and we'll send a message and we'll start the show by saying our guest isn't here She's late, but when she does show up she'll come walking in and we'll make something out of it By the way, it's what grown-ups do right? I mean, there's a reason that I was a guest on your show this morning I mean by force myself in here. I broke in last night, right? But I mean I was here 15 minutes before right either you because you know, you guys have a show to start Yeah, I'm gonna show up. I'm gonna show up on time I it's it's very disrespectful and in this case

Meaning when you show up late, and you're gonna meet a friend out for lunch or you're gonna meet a friend out for movie It's disrespectful, but that's that's quiet. Yeah, but that's you and your friend. This is Including the audience a hundred and people. I mean, crew, producers, me and Drew. I mean, when you're Pam Anderson and you're an hour late, you don't have your friend waiting for you at the cafe, he's getting caught up on some texting. You have a group of 150 people, makeup people makeup hair camera people producers I mean through said a hundred and fifty people at least and then the next show and then the next show getting bumped back So it's wildly

It's insanely rude to the people. So my feeling was is you have a choice. You can be late. That's fine We also have a choice when we can begin our show. So I started the show and everyone said, no, no, no, we can't start without Pam. And I yelled at everyone. Literally, I mean yelled. Get into your position. Get into your position. And you can imagine everyone was like,

no, no, he had to scream everybody into position and yell, roll cameras and let's go. And so we started rolling cameras. And Drew, by the way, if you want to apologize, apologize for never having my back on any of these ideas ever. You know what? You're right. And I apologize.

And I had no, you understand something, I had no judgment and no perception about this business. I was busy practicing medicine all the time. It's not the business. But my head was in a completely, I had a different discipline going on. I would say, hey, I'm not coming in unless we get a security guard. And Drew would go like, ah, I'll be fine. And I'd go, shut up, Drew.

Shut up. Get on the same page with me. But Drew, do you think you still have sort of like, even though I know what you think about authority and decision makers a lot of the time, do you think that sometimes you still have that pattern or not? Have you broken it? I have more of an awareness. Because when I would watch your show with my sister, this isn't about my sister on your show, but because she was on the show and I've heard I know Adam's opinion of the show but I've heard him say it but I know that you have to know how bankrupt many of your panelists are. First of all, how dare you?

I know that you know, because I know how bright a person you are, right? And so I know you know, and this is the thing Adam talks about on his show all the time, that not everybody actually has a right, everyone has a right to their opinion in their head, but not everybody's opinion has validity. Right. And yet on your issue, just on your shoe my question there for polemicism she why there uh... but it there there's your very very animals there

they're there for the planet there they're there to be in a poll uh... for sure no they are there for sure to just stake out the poll of an argument but my question is this uh... often i've noticed and i've wondered about it because watched've watched you and listened to you in every form, everything you've done, right? And I think the rehab show is brilliant and helpful and I... The way that people attack that is bullshit because that's right in your core area and you're able to express and articulate the who that you are. So who cares what the people think because you know you're actually prosecuting an agenda that matters a lot to you and you know the difference you're making. But I watch you on this show and I hear when

Adam talks about what he thinks doesn't like why he never writes it off. I'm very curious. He says it on a show sometimes but. It's a clusterfuck. Yeah but here's my question for you is this. You are I'd say you have 50 IQ points on many of those people. Not only that, you're more well-read than most of those people. And yet, by according them, and I think of Murrow sometimes, by according, who wouldn't, by according these people, the television, not only the cameras, but by you not being actively skeptical, by you just letting them fight it out like he's saying,

by you not saying, hold on here, actually letting them fight it out like he's saying, by you not saying, hold on here, actually as not only the host of this show but the reason this show exists, and as a rationalist, that argument is specious. I'm curious why you don't do that because here you hold him accountable, you hold him accountable. Because television has a very different rhythm. Thank you guest Go ahead Right. Yeah. Thank you guest now

God, I let Drew give his bullshit answer and then I'll know it's a television I mean, I have my own you know this way It's appealing to a certain kind of audience right and the people that may not understand some of the things I want to say. I don't agree with that. Yeah. Go ahead. Well, I would like to be on CNN and be able to do that, but that's a different audience. It's very different. And I sort of feel like my job is to, because of the way people digest that show, as I understand it, by just stopping and stopping the conversation and saying, hey, no, no, as opposed to crafting it in such a way and creating the conflict that I know eventually that person will be sort of shown to be specious. That's sort of

what I see my job to be, is to make it come out that way but not to stop the rhythm and say it's not because I hear you talking about even the way in the past a sort of institutional passivity that you would engage in because you felt like it was the right thing I understand why I understand the other argument we all do to not like do the pan it's a giant thing to say we're gonna go and screw Pam Anderson who cares yeah as it would be a giant thing for you to say that but I would watch your show and I would start yelling at the television because I go he's such a fucking smart guy he knows even if I disagree with your opinions

when you voice them yeah they come from this very legitimate place and I watch you there and it feels like a guy in a box you're so good at this shit and I wish that that you would grab it obviously was frustrating for me to watch my sister not be able to do that Too because that was the position she was in right it was a bad spot for her because of it But you guys sometimes don't and I wouldn't brought this up if Adam didn't just bring up that other thing, but You're a great Interrogator And you could really do it by going like we used to do that on the show

Be with the ratings. Mm-hmm. Well, we learned people don't don't I don't mean Trying I tried to buy the end I'm trying to give I was having to do that much later There's a given opinion true that I'm he's a pleaser. That's true number number one Yeah, so if somebody stands in front of us and says something like, you know, when I would say, look, you got to have a security guard because we're getting death threats out in this dark parking lot, I give you two weeks to have it. And then two weeks would come and go. And then the person would go, give us another two weeks. I'd say, no, you don't get another two weeks. And Drew would look at me and go, I'll give him another two weeks Yeah, so he was he's a pleaser by nature number one number two and some of those is being So trained into being taskmastering too if there's somebody above me saying dude's got to be this way. I just do it I didn't think about it, right? But he's also puss and he doesn't want to get any shit from anybody and the reason

And he doesn't want to get any shit from anybody and the reason he will lock antlers with me is he'll lock antlers with me when I come up% of people that have a microphone have a keyboard or have a television camera perched in front of them which is I don't want to get shit so when something happens out there no matter how mundane it is, I'm going to act wildly outraged. I will act outraged. So if a guy who has early onset Alzheimer's says something to his whore girlfriend about the blacks, I'm going to sit there and there will be no difference between that and whatever is going on in Darfur in terms of my moral indignation. So I'll just be morally outraged at everything all the time

and then I'll be in the happy camp of likable people who are outraged over everything all the time. And then everyone will like me and then I won't get any shit. But then, this is great, we're gonna now talk about Julie, he's not here, but then the guy who can do that and do it when he wants it, when you do it as articulately and intelligently, as powerfully, you when people on his show say things that it's clear he knows to be really absurd and in fact only grandstanding or only self aggrandizing or only to generate

a response sometimes and then some other guests will actually say, like, wait a second, that's ridiculous. And you want, as a viewer, and more than that, as a long-term, what I say, yes, the ratings, but I think you're looking at it in a micro way, when in fact what you have and what you bring to the show and what you undervalue about yourself is, you bring your own 30 years of doing this. And you bring people who are there because they're interested in how you're processing this. And then by withholding that, you're actually not using the currency you've built up all these years. Well, what you're doing... There's something to that.

Yes. What I always say is either be on the beach where it's nice and safe or be out beyond the breakers where the waters come, you're getting caught a little bit in between. Which is to say, you know, what congenial talk show hosts do is they literally host, they don't weigh in with their, Ryan Seacrest doesn't weigh in with any opinions and makes a ton of money and is smart and by the way keeps his fucking trap shut because he sure as fuck not gonna come walking out of the Ivy and have somebody ask him about what's going on on the Gaza Strip and he goes well hold on you got ten minutes because let me give you

my take no the fuck he's not gonna give you his take because whatever his take is whose ever side he falls on he's gonna get pummeled and he's gonna lose his he's gonna lose his mantles mr he's gonna lose his, he's gonna lose his mantles, Mr. Congeniality, and he understands what it is. Now, Howard Stern and and other people have have made a mint going past the breakers and giving their opinion on everything and not wanting to be on the beach or in the middle because that's how they make their dough, saying they they make their bones saying the controversial things and getting into stuff and now they've come use I feel Drew sometimes are just stuck in the

middle which is if you want to the problem with pushing out into the deeper water boy do I paint a picture so beautiful scary it is scary because you're getting further from shore but but shore is nowhere. That's just fat people with sand in their crack and a sunburn. You want to get out there, but it feels like, I'm going to keep one foot on the sand and one foot out in the ocean. And you could, you have the horsepower intellectually and you also have the interest. Your interests are much more passionate than being a traffic cop or Ryan Seacrest. Maybe Ryan Seacrest doesn't know anything about what's going on in the Middle East. You have strong feelings about it.

You could swim out into the deeper waters where it was calmer. Unfortunately, it's scary because you're swimming away from shore and you will get attacked. Yeah, there'll be a shark. Out there. Yeah, there'll be a shark out there Yeah, yeah, they'll be shark or two which by the way, the shark has styrofoam teeth Powerful big meaning it's scary. It's swimming at you. You see the dorsal fin coming Yeah, but it never does anything it never it's all the bad tweets all though Here's what you did. What's it amount to right? How many shitty things have I had about me in the last five years? How many? He's a racist

All I do is fucking make money. Okay, hold a second a couple things a thank you It's to have this conversation now because I have to film a pilot where I'm trying to change things in this direction interesting B I have become more tolerant of the negative stuff. And so I feel like I have been thinking about this lately, which is fascinating, what role I played in bringing this all on myself this morning. But here's the thing. In my world, these things do have the styrofoam teeth. No, no. They have fucking razor sharp teeth.

I know. You say that. No, no, no. In fact fucking razor sharp teeth. I know you. No, you say that. No, no, no. In fact, I'm another guy on my podcast named Ryan Holloway who wrote a book. Ryan and I are pals. A holiday, right? You wrote a book called Trust Me I'm Lying. Trust Me I'm Lying. And then The Obstacle is the Way. The Obstacle is the Way.

Wonderful guy. Ryan's a great dude. But the Trust Me I'm Lying is the one that spoke to, well, they both spoke to me, but the Trust Me I'm Lying is about how bullshit on the internet becomes factual. And it starts getting reported by legitimate, in quotes, websites and blogs and legitimate news data. But here's the problem. As soon as that happens, I hear from my professional societies, and that means that the fucking

world is coming down. But you are, I would just say that the six human needs, as you know, like those six human needs, certainty, uncertainty, significance, all that. The need for a certain, it's fear. I mean, if you yeah the need for a certain it's fear I mean you say you don't make any money doing your practice right so what do you what do you okay so what do you need that he likes helping people because they will take away my status as a yes they will they will not you this is not like Yes, they will. They will not. This is... And now that, I don't like to go to Philadelphia every three months and fucking get in front

of an ethics committee. But that's a... I hire attorneys to defend myself. Yes, I believe that they're draconian and ridiculous, but you're making a leap... I don't have to. I've been doing that all year. Listen... But you're making a leap, aren't you, about...

I mean, wait a minute, is this what... I mean, I had no intention of getting into... Yeah, yeah. Thanks. You're making a leap. You're making a leap to the worst case scenario when all animus saying or I'm saying is... It does keep happening. I would say HLN hasn't figured out how to have a hit show on their whole network.

And if you, because you've had a following, you're undervaluing your own capacity to build an audience by saying, I'm going to milk toast, I'm gonna show you that. It's all legitimate. And you, if you decided to, could fucking take it and actually become the face of that network, they'd follow you, the network is still true, go watch that movie again. The moment the thing ticks up, they're all over you,

and they're going, oh, all along we wanted Drew to have a clear voice, it would be their fucking idea. I will take this all to heart and I Don't know how it's gonna play out, but I promise you all this Mostly for six real because you know the first the first thing you have to do See what's screaming free all month long during Pluto TV's April ghouls Get your heart pounding with nightmare-fueling classics

like Insidious and Bram Stoker's Dracula. Or test your nerves with haunting hits like Urban Legend and don't be afraid of the dark. Pluto TV has hundreds of channels and thousands of terrifying movies live and on demand. Download Pluto TV on all your favorite devices and start streaming now. I appreciate it. I'll put a cap on this.

By the way, Ryan Holiday says you changed his entire life. You know that. I know it's crazy. He says you changed. You made that guy the most successful, but you changed his whole life. Which is crazy, just by telling him to read Epictetus. I know you read that all the time. Who?

One of the Stoics. And then he wrote a book about it. Wait, whose life did you change? Nobody's got it. You wouldn't believe it anyway. Ryan Halliday, 23 years old, became the head of all marketing. He dropped out of college and became the head of all marketing for American Apparel and it all started for him when he was 19 years old and met Dr. Drew. Drew told him to read a book. He read the book and changed his entire life and has written three bestsellers. Is an incredibly accomplished young man. He's still in his twenties. He's going to be here

this afternoon. You'll meet him. And he goes around everywhere saying, what a great guy. Yeah, he's a great guy. All right. Well, it takes a hero to tell someone to read someone else's book. I'm just saying. I told you to read your book, Tracy, enough. You all right with that? I am saying you're a hero. What do you mean? You know, I have this podcast called The Moment that's a grant, the Grantland Network that

I do. Sure. And iTunes. And you can get it on iTunes. And the whole premise of the podcast is I'm fascinated by how people who accomplish remarkable things process the big moments in their lives, the inflection points. Well, a lot of this stuff, which is it's always about fear. And then how do you deal with, it's what you guys talk about

all the time, with callers, it's when you have a huge moment, either positive or negative, people return to stasis, regular people try to return to stasis, and people who accomplish remarkable things somehow can push to the next level. That's the inquiry I'm on. That's what I'm interested in learning. I have found, you found there's usually a moment that they can point at a moment? That's the podcast that's called The Moment. Okay, and for me, what I have found, those moments of change, because I've studied those moments

of change, because I'm interested in what gets people sober, right? And usually, it will have been a novel relationship. Like, they will start seeing themselves with a new pair of glasses. Somebody that they wouldn't normally hang out with, they start hanging out with, and they get sort of an intimate connection with, and they see themselves differently. And then they see themselves more realistically realistically and then they change what they can. Yeah, or sometimes what surprised me because I think my narrative would have been more thinking that all the time is that some of the people actually refuse to stop and look at themselves

and just have have developed an engine like Adams which is to just keep moving forward that's the other thing to the thing you always talk about which is like I'm just gonna move forward and get this I'm gonna prepare and work let him finish his fucking sentence thank you no it's also a funny relationship to failure because there's no failure then it's just moving it's moving forward yes where's the rest of us learning moving the rest of us might be crushed or might think they're all staring at me now. Time to turn back. If it's been great. Whereas people like you, Adam, have the ability somehow to note it. Okay, I note that they're all, you don't have to be great

every day. There's a couple of moments where you do have to put it together. And then you have to realize where those moments are. They're called first dates. They're called job interviews. Look, we've all been married for a long time. We can have an off day on a Wednesday. There's no problemo. We're not going to get divorced because we come home in a bad mood and lock ourselves in our office and you know watch sports center. But the first date you better have a good first date or there's no second date there's your life if you really look at it and because because the stuff kind of takes off from those moments sort of spreads like an STD it's not just that

moment it's all the moments your partner slept with before those moments, meaning I am a guy who is not long on preparation and I'm not the world's most diligent guy. But when I flew back from New York so that you and I could do our fake little love line run through back on stage nine over in Hollywood Center Studios and literally set up a card table with us and two folding chairs and put a Phone that wasn't hooked up to anything on top of it and have the producers behind a piece of duveteen Ten feet away going hi. I'm Tammy and I'm calling from Tampa and I have a question. I Realized for that 30 minutes. I better fucking show up And so I showed up for that 30 minutes and then

I got the job now episode 149 of the job that I got I may not have showed up the same I didn't I wasn't drunk and I didn't mail it in but I certainly once I got the gig and I've always sort of said to people look first thing you'd better do is you better recognize what those moments are whether it's a cop telling you to step out of the car that's your moment to fucking get your shit together. Yeah I call those moments like inflection points and it comes from you know poker or anytime where there is an inflection point where things go one way or another but the only thing and it's like the story tell about uh... you know

tubman listening to you for a really long time but about when you first got those radio shots how you would prepare to go on the radio and do those little five-minute things i do you know but i do kevin and being at st now i get to cut you off but true doesn't but here's here's here's the deal he didn't't feel cut off by you. I do Kevin and Bean Weekly to this day. I was just setting you up. That's all and I do I do this week in rage. I do three things. Yeah, okay

You phone it in now, but you're so literally phone it in. No, no Why do you have to jump ahead and finish every fucking story? I don't know why what is that you're going to talk about what is that impulse? And how many times have I brought that up to you every show every other show why jump? Why jump ahead? All right, what is that neurosis like I mean, I know it's uncomfortable for you, but why is it it's just participating in conversation But it's not participating in conversation if somebody said let me tell you about this weekend I ran in a track meet I ran the five 500 K

And then you just jumped in and went and anyone anyway, let's order lunch. That's not participating the participating is yes Tell me back and forth. Why is the intent why the the inertia to jump ahead and finish everyone's story? What is that impulse? I don't know, but it may go with, I've got a weird... I know it's uncomfortable, but it's like you wanna push it along. That wasn't what just happened, but I do do that. It is.

And... You do it every time. It wasn't what just happened, but as long as we're... No, it is what happened. No, he just told, this time you told a joke, but... You heard right. He just thrown it in, because It wasn't what just happened. No, it is what happened. This time you told a joke, but you said phone it in. I think it was a pun. No, no, I phoned it in before.

He knew where I was going. No, I didn't know. I was just sort of commenting on phoning it in. You knew where I was going with the story. I do do that, and so let me tell you what it hooks up with in my head. And you did just do it, Drew. Alright, so fine. No, don't say fine. You did it. You heard police.

You're screenwriting, Brian. You knew, everyone knew where this story was going. I did. If you jumped ahead and finished it. I had no idea where you were going. The point is that you still. How come you finished it if you had no idea? I didn't.

I was just commenting on the phone it in thing. I was just doing a pun on phone it in. Adam, how much work did you do in the old days when you did those first few, if I can say. Thank you. And the old days when it mattered, how much work to do in the old days when you do those first few of my insight here and now and the only thing that mattered how much did you prepare prepare and know you're going to nail it but that's participating in a conversation know that was jumping ahead let's always know that's not jumping ahead that's that's been a little bit of a sense we're in unison

but let me let me tell you that the way i finished my valuation of hola was you we need to take a quick break and then we'll get back to yelling at each other right after this. All right. What are you shaking your head for, Gary? I feel your pain. You know what I'm talking about. I was sympathizing with you. Thank you. Jumps ahead. So here's every story.

So here. So here's what it's hooks up with my head. I can't stand. It drives me somehow weirdly to distraction when I've like really enjoyed a film or something. And I and the story is intriguing with a lot of twists and turns. I can't stand going in with somebody

and they don't know the story or something. It's some weird. Because you're excited for them to see it. It's actually excitement. Yes. It's excitement that manifests in a way that he finds annoying after 20 years. Exactly.

No, it's not that. There's gotta be something worse about it. I'm just trying to help. It's a neurosis. I appreciate that. It's a neurosis sometimes. But I don't know why, I don't know where it comes from. I really don't.

And if you get any insight, please share it with me. It doesn't come from a light place, it comes from a dark place. I've given you some insight, shut up! As a huge fan of this show though, what I'd want to know if I were listening walking through Central Park, which is how I listen, is the difference is in the old days, when you would call in. Oh, thank you. Okay.

I would write the bits down the night before. Right. I would craft them all day. I would even so much before the internet when I was looking for a specific name, as you know, specifics always good, and you don't want to say a box of cookies, you want to say a box of pecan sandies. That's how that's specific. I literally get my car drive up the hill and go to the Safeway walk down the bakery aisle and find the right cereal because there's no Google and write it down and then because I have difficulty reading would read it out loud multiple multiple times so that 730 the next morning when I phoned it in, I had read this script a million times out loud because I knew that I was all I had to do is somewhere

in the first ten times I called Kevin and Bean for them to hang up the phone look at Jimmy Kimmel and go, I give it a C- and then next week when it came time to them going do you want Mr. Burcham to call in? I don't know what's on the schedule. I knew, I knew the first one for sure, there would be no second date. I knew the second, third one, but even into the tenth. Now I knew once I got to 25, I could do a C or C minus in there because I'd had the 25 before me.

Now I do Kevin and Bean and a lot of this is experience and repetition, which I've earned, which I can own, which I rely upon. But now when I do Kevin and Bean, I literally, they say call in at 835. I get up at 820, I walk over to the computer, and I take a look at the list of 20 things, the week and rage topics that Mike Lynch has gathered from the podcast and just sent me. I comb through them. I go, no, I don't like that one. No, he did that one. I get three. I write them down and it just pure beat form on a piece of paper. And then I completely wing it. Now it's fine.

Cause I have the experience of doing it, but prep time was a day and a half versus nine minutes. Why your story is so great and what I think people misunderstand sometimes because I do this thing on Vine which is I do these things called six seconds screenwriting lessons because I hate and get enraged by the frauds who hold themselves out as experts in these things and try to bilk people out of out of money right and like i did when the other day they got a little was a vine editors pick out 11 million hits wow and

which is incredible and a lot of the comments are amazing you're an old man you have a woodhead get the fuck off vine it's crazy sure and then you know about you know a lot of that thanks Adam. But people sometimes want to land on one of these two poles, which is, hey, you can accomplish anything or you could never do it. Be realistic. And the truth is, you can be a dreamer and go after what seems to be an impossible thing, but people leave out the part that you illustrate, which is you were a dyslexic kid, you couldn't read, just casually when you couldn't read. It's that if you want to set a goal like that, the amount of work you have to do is extraordinary.

So, Penn Jillette always talks about how he'll rehearse something and practice it in amount of times that nobody else would to make it look effortless. In our society people get confused and so they either give it up because they think oh my parents didn't accomplish anything I can't or they they give like a half-assed effort at something and then think oh they didn't appreciate from our genius. It's like you had to have all the talent hidden in you that a lot of people missed along the way and then something clicked in you and you were like I'm, I'm just going to work harder than everybody else. Well, I find a way to get there. And it's those two things when they come together that lead to

people becoming successful. I agree. I like your point about the sort of polarization of, you know, we get the you can accomplish anything you dream, you know, or you believe in your heart, you know, like hey Hey fat chick who wants to be a model? No this we should not be peddling that dream to you It's not a realistic dream on the other hand the other part the other pole is oh, it'll never happen That's just for other people. It's who you know, it's all about luck. It's it shouldn't the reality is always somewhere It's always so much. I mean you can give yourself yourself to me it's like I think of this word permission

which is you people think you can give that that woman could give herself permission to chase that but don't just give yourself permission without knowing that means you have to do a whole bunch of insane stuff to make it have you give yourself a chance I mean put it I'll put it to you this way pure and simple and Brian you can tell me as somebody who does it professionally. You know, people always talk about, is this guy funny? Is he the funniest? Do you know anyone funnier?

Who's funnier? And I'm always like, listen, the Def Rack guy is funnier than Jay Leno, in my opinion. That doesn't mean shit. Everyone wants to talk about everyone's vertical leap or what their 40 time is. I don't care how blessed you are. You got to get the rubber to the road. I always tell people, and it's weird, it's on my mind because I'm going to throw my Paul Newman car on a dyno. The thing is this, I'm going to check.

It's not how much horsepower that engine makes. It's what do you get to the rear wheels? Great point. You can have a thousand horsepower supercharged blown nitrous injected engine. If you only get eight horsepower, 25 horsepower to the rear wheels, you got a slug. It's the rear wheel. I don't care what the engine is putting out. Everyone is focused on this guy's a genius. This guy's a comedic genius. This guy's brilliant. No, no. What is he getting to the rear wheels? That's what you're trying to say to my son out there, Drew. Well, let me, there's one other thing. I was just thinking of your son. His son's heading off to college and there's something that I have found was really important to me and I've seen each of

my kids go through it and I was grateful when they went through it and it changed them, which was, and this goes to your point of the hard work part, and this is almost never spoken about, let's see if it resonates for you guys. There's something to overcoming at some point in your life what appears to be an insurmountable task. Yes. Like something that seems insurmountable. We talk about this all the time.

It's brilliant. It gives you a confidence and a source of judgment that nothing else does. And I've watched my kids go through this. And one of them not as...they've all gone through it in some fashion. And it's like they were...now they're ready. Now they're transformed. It's hard doing a really hard thing I mean my daughter is as smart as my son who's you know going over an excellent. He's very very bright person, but

She's dyslexic and so I've been watching her having to overcome that now. We caught it earlier than Dyslexic I'm stupid In spite of that you over get some point you Transcended but things came really easily I'll tell you if Mike things came really easily for my son for a long time because like the you know Just the facility for stuff the horsepower But our concern as parents was was well if things always come easy for him How is he ever gonna know how to really work?

So it's in seven. I think seven of the eighth grade We said you have to do something incredibly hard and he started doing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu with grown-ups. There you go. And we said, you can't quit it. You pick something. He picked that. You can't quit. And he did it for years and years, four nights a week. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu getting thrown all around,

choked out, dealing with that stuff. And it's what you talk about, about sports. Came out of that experience with the knowledge that he could grind. You ask him now, he'll never talk about that he's bright. He'll say, I can grind. Yeah. Harder. I can grind because I sat there and learned how to get choked out and not grind. Keep going. Hold on. One quick question. One last point. In our culture it goes down as don't be afraid of failure and learn to fail. It's not that.

That's important. But this business of doing something that you you just looked I remember one point my lap I saw a brick wall that went to infinity and I thought to myself well just start one brick at a time just just I'm just climbing that wall yes it's all the sudden you're at the top of that wall all right I will say this simply and then we have to wrap it up I always tell people you have to know what it feels like to do something that meaning look Drew you're strong very fit man you can't surf for shit. Why can't you surf? Because your legs aren't strong enough? Because you can't paddle strong hard enough? No you don't know what it feels like. They

know what it feels like. And I tell my wife all the time, she goes, how do you make a documentary? I go, you make a documentary. And then when you're done with the documentary, you know you're not any taller, your dick's not any wider, you're not any smarter. You just know what it's like to make a documentary. And then when somebody says, hey, you want to make another documentary you go why not? That's the part that's when we talk about the sort of cycle of poverty It's not really the cycle of poverty. It's this it's the negative cycle of not having the experience. I know what that experience is. I know what it's like to write a book make a movie make an independent movie make a documentary every time

I do one they all get easier and then they all become, why not? I just signed to do my fourth book. My first book, I thought, holy shit, how many words? A hundred thousand words? This time I went, oh fuck, we'll knock this thing out. No problem. I'm not any smarter. I'm not any anything. I have no more IQ points. I Simply have the experience of doing it. We don't talk about that We just talk about have the courage to go forward or don't quit any no No, it's you you must gain this is I know we have to go

I have just one last point which I want to make because it's something you said before about those big moments The only thing I I would disagree about her or ask that is that first date Yes, you have to get get yourself ready and you have to be great but I think that a lot of people tell the narrative their lives I blew it when I had the shot and I don't think that's true if you live really learn from it not in a bullshit way right if you really learn from it yes really take account of who you are and what you did that fucked up, you can put yourself in a position to win the next time. I love that point.

Las Vegas, doing a show, coming up in Treasure Island August 29th. My book, you can send the jacket in, we'll sign that and everything else. Also, Thursday, yes, I should say, Drew's schedule is crazy. My schedule is crazy. And so for a few weeks, we're just going to do a single Thursday show. So instead of twice a week, we'll do once a week for a couple of weeks, you're traveling, I'm doing Catch a Contractor.

But we will we will stay with it. And then we'll go back to the bi-weekly format in just a few short weeks All right, brian koppelman the podcast the moment with brian koppelman also website brian koppelman Dot-com Uh, thank you so much for coming in brian. Hey, listen when you begged me to be a guest. It was my pleasure That's right. Who's that dude? Is. Talents to see does so until next time Santa Croft for Brian compliment doctor Drew Chris Maxipan and your after saying mahalo. all month long during Pluto TV's April ghouls. Get your heart pounding with nightmare-fueling classics like Insidious and Bram Stoker's Dracula.

-♪ Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Live and on demand. Download Pluto TV on all your favorite devices and start streaming now. Podcasting isn't just about talking, it's about growing, engaging and monetizing. And that's where Podcast One Pro comes in. Whether you're an independent creator or a major brand, Podcast One Pro gives you the tools you need to take your podcast to the next level. We're talking about premium hosting, advanced analytics, dynamic ad integration, and expert distribution, all designed to maximize your reach and revenue. Plus, with access to PodcastOne's industry leading network, you'll be connected

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