The Adam and Dr. Drew Show - Adam and Drew #2009 - John Lennon Was Wrong—& So Was America’s Education System

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

In this episode, Adam and Dr. Drew kick things off by unpacking the narcissism epidemic and the naïve idealism behind John Lennon’s “Imagine.” Adam reflects on how he sounded the alarm decades ago about the importance of trade skills—especially for kids from low-income families. Adam reflects on his long-standing warnings about the need for trade education, especially for kids from low-income urban areas, and criticizes VH1’s “Save the Music” campaign as a misguided effort. Dr. Drew admits his own shortcomings in shop class, while Adam breaks down why you won’t find aluminum cans on L.A. streets—because incentives matter. Finally, Adam and Dr. Drew talk about a tragic parasailing accident caused by a panic attack, and they highlight the stark differences in how men and women respond to fear.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Recorded live at Corolla one studios with Adam Corolla and board certified physician and addiction medicine specialist Dr. Drew Pinsky. You're listening to the Adam and Dr. Drew show. Yeah, get it on. Got the on the chest. That's your board certified. Did that over there in Austin, Texas. So, I'm in Austin Texas. And sorry if the audio is not quite where it should be, but I thought I had it all wired up, but not so much. But in any event, yeah, and so much interesting stuff

coming across my, I've been wanting to talk to you for a couple of days. One is, I don't know if you saw all that data on conservative versus liberal folks and the fact that, guess what? Mental illness much severe, much more severe, in fact, more severe in more liberal and more healthy in more conservative.

Interesting. Yeah, why do you think that is? Well, I don't know if you talked to, I think you and I talked about this on the phone, but I don't think we talked about this on the show, that there's this trend towards narcissism. I don't think I described this last week, but if I didn't, I'm gonna do it again,

which is that I listened to this very, very bright astrophysicist, psychologist talking about the sort of general character construct of people across time. And he was saying that back in early history, we had a psychotic process, meaning if you heard voices and saw visions, you were there was nothing unusual santa and then we started moving towards rationalism and individualism and we became very very narcissistic and he this guy's theory was the last 10 years we've become more borderline and the really interesting about borderline is they're unhappy they're unregulated they're depressed and they tend towards hysteria. And that seems to be the thing. Well, I'll do a lay person spin on it.

Atheists, I think, tend to be a little more this way. Religious people, I've found, sort of let go, let God kind of thing that kind of travel with God. Are there people in that room and can they be quiet? There's nobody here. There's nobody there. It's just, it's just, you're the last thing. Walk. There's somebody walked by. There's footsteps. Do you hear that? I hear everything. True. I heard someone talking. That's all. Okay. Here's somebody talking. I don't know. I don't see anybody. Okay. Let's keep looking. We should go look at it. I

Maybe it's picking up I think whatever that is, it's picking up. What is that walking? All right, go No, I heard talking, but who knows, because we have bad connections. Alright, go. But they're a lay person, so keep going. Alright, so they're non-religious, number one. And then number two, they think they can control things, which is difficult as well. It's problematic, as they would say, because they think they're in control of things

they aren't in control of, and it becomes very frustrating to them. Also, it's probably a lot more women getting a lot more involved with things that traditionally women didn't get involved in, and I see new video every day of them on the streets and they're scuffling with people, and they're pushing and they're screaming,

no, what, in a kind of a weird tantrum-y kind of childlike way. And I keep seeing these videos where the ICE guys are picking up the ice, uh, the illegal and the woman is just screaming. What are you doing? What are you doing? You know over and over again and they're like we're picking this person up and then she starts yelling no what's going on. You know what I mean? And that's gotta be a weird and frustrating place to be if you think about it.

Yeah, oh my God. And it would drive me insane. Yeah, it's kind of scary, right? Yeah, I mean, I come from these kind of weird narcissistic atheists kind of, also, they never really get anything done. They live in a kind of invisible world where they go out and they protest and they march and they make

tons of proclamations all they did like let's just say Drew I Don't make a lot of proclamations What I do is I just go I'm gonna write a book and then I write a book and then someone goes How do you think it's gonna go and I'm gonna write a book. And then I write a book and then someone goes, how do you think it's gonna go? And I go, I have no idea. I just wanna write a good book and- Change of the book is a compilation of proclamations.

That's right. But I have no idea how it's gonna go. Or I wanna make a documentary or I'm gonna go somewhere and do some standup shows or something. And I just go, I'll do the best I can. But imagine if you did that kind of Babe Ruth move where you walked to home plate and you pointed to right field

and then you just struck out and walked back to the dugout night after night after night. Like you made the big point proclamation and then you just struck out and went back to the dugout that would be a difficult life for me. Well, it's not a difficult it requires a certain amount of denial of reality you can't you can't be in reality and be like that. Yes, you cannot be in reality and so these people

they sit up there and they go, look, if an ice guy comes to my classroom and tries to take out one of my children, they're gonna have to go through me. They're gonna have to go through me and it ain't gonna work. I'll tell you that, right now it ain't gonna work.

And this is a fat, punchy, middle-aged white woman who doesn't own a weapon. So how is it when the 23-year-old ice guy comes to your class and pushes you aside and takes the kid and goes, what do you mean they have to go through you first and it's not gonna work? How's that going to work?

And wouldn't that be frustrating? That's right. Yeah, and you also mentioned the religious piece that the data in terms of people with conservative points of view being more happy, the people who are critical that data say, well, it must be they tend to be more religious. And I don't know that that's critical so much as saying it's explanatory. And I'm kind of jealous of that. I don't have that quite the same way. Yeah, I'm jealous of it as well. I would also say that

people who are conservative tend to be just more pragmatic in general. They don't have- That's the other big theme. That's the other big theme that this guy was pointing out. He said that when you're a narcissist,'ll go that pisses me off and you go pick up a weapon and fight If you were in the borderline process you just it's you just you're using projective identification Which is sending a motion out into the world, right? And that and then that's it then I'm done. Yes

No, it's it's it's all and then that's it, that I'm done. Yes. No, it's all contained in the John Lennon song Imagine. It's, you know, they imagine everything. I mean, John Lennon was shot when I was in high school, 40 years on. He's still dead. And none of what he imagined came remotely true.

Not at all. And not only that, what he was imagining was bizarre? A world with no people? Well, yeah. What they do is they imagine a world that does not have human fallibility, instincts, and error. And also just sort of general, human. They don't understand that, I've said it a million times,

LA's filled with garbage, there's garbage everywhere. It's a filthy, garbage-riddleddled city and the only thing you don't see on the ground is aluminum cans. That's all. You see every form of trash but you don't see aluminum cans and I would argue that aluminum cans are the most ubiquitous form of trash. You don't walk out with half gallon milk jugs and things like that It's really you know every beer every homeless guy pounds is an aluminum can every energy drink every every Coke every Pepsi everything Anyone on the street or walking around or whatever might be drinking on the beach or whatever it comes in an aluminum can

zero aluminum cans on the ground, zero. But everything everywhere else. Why is that? Aluminum cans have value, they get picked up, they get recycled. People don't, it's not about the right thing or the wrong thing. Do the right thing, you know what I mean?

Like just say no to drugs, you know? All this pine the sky bullshit. There are no aluminum cans cans because if you pick one up and you return it you get three cents for every can and that's how People make their living Okay done, and then there's garbage everywhere else. So people Are they'll work they'll do whatever you incentivize them to do. That's how it works the Imagining no aluminum cans would not get you no aluminum cans. Right. Putting a redemption value on aluminum cans would get you aluminum cans. Yeah. In a recycling center. Right. Yeah, something motivating people. So let's all, you know, it's like, think about, Think about Biden and his whole border campaign three years ago.

He's sitting there, him and Kamala Harris, and their campaign to get illegal border crossings is, just don't. Just don't come. I'm telling you now, don't. Just no. Okay, that's not incentive for people not to come. But a wall is, but extra agents, yeah, that it, okay, that'll stop them. But just don't show up, that's not a plan. Now in their mind, that is a plan. Yeah, yeah.

And that's the problem with when they govern They have a they have an insane You know just say no kind of thing it doesn't work So you can imagine no borders and you can imagine no possessions you can imagine no religion You can imagine all of that and then yeah, hey Israel imagine a place with no iron dome and then and then who yeah, hey, Israel, imagine a place with no Iron Dome. And then Houthis or whoever shoots rockets, you imagine a world where you don't shoot rockets at Jists.

All right, John Lennon's work is done here. So we're good, right? And it's still, it's kind of, it's concerning because it seems like it's sort of a trend that way when we need more sort of pragmatism. You know, I like the money spent on trade schools. Yeah. That's good.

You heard about that? Yeah, I did. I did hear about that. Listen, Drew, let's turn back the clock. Let's turn back the clock. Okay. Let's turn back the clock to 1996, maybe 1997. Let's go way back. Let's go back per near 30 years, Drew.

And then we sat at K-Rock, our radio station, and they were hitting on MTV and everywhere else this save the music, I'm Sheryl Crow, music, music, music, we need more music in schools, remember? Remember they'd always come up with these Focacta statistics, which is, you know, kids that master the oboe do 26% better in their math final. Yes, because they're Asian and their parents are up their ass. That's why they do better.

And they're mad. You know what I mean? And the inner city kids, they need to be exposed to the symphony. It's like, OK, remember all that? All of it. Save the music. Save the music. 30 years ago. Save the music. One guy, one guy. I'm pointing at him right now, took the unpopular opinion and approach to say, fuck music, we need shop classes. Nobody becomes a professional cello player, but they have to learn to be a pipe fitter

or an electrician or what have you. We need shop classes. We don't need music classes. And then everyone would argue with me, oh, you're such a bad person for saying that. Fuck y'all. I've been saying this shit for a long time. None of this stuff is new for me. None of it.

This is this is 30 years old. This is way before I had kids. It's like I go find those poor kids, teach them a goddamn trade. No, can't do it. They need to be exposed to the oboe. Okay, idiots. All right, I don't know how many times I can say the same thing,

and then everyone would get mad at me, and they'd go, yeah, but music, yeah, but music. I go, that's a luxury item. These kids are growing up in squalor. This is a luxury. I know you guys love to make movies about this kind of shit. But the reality is, is that we need electricians. No, nobody listened. Nobody cared. And by the way, they were the heroes for suggesting more music classes. Yeah, true. And you

changed. I've changed. All right, take a break. Yeah, it's true. And you've changed. I've changed. All right, take a break. Be right back after this. Hey, it's Adam Carolla from the Adam Carolla Show. BetOnline is the world's most trusted betting platform and your number one source for all your sports betting action.

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put it in, I don't, listen, everybody, who are we really concerned about? Like, Nancy Pelosi cares about the children. She got into this for the children, it's always about the children, it's the children, right? Are you worried about the rich children? What children? Let's be specific now for you who care about the children.

Rich kids? I've never heard you say you're worried about the rich kids. I assume when you say the children, you're talking about... Bill Clinton has been one of the Save the Music, VH1 Save the Music's most active advocates. Yeah, he likes those wind instruments a lot. Oh, yeah. You mean the wood, the wood instruments. Woodwinds. Woodwinds. He spells it W-I-N-S.

All right. OK, so here's the thing. Save the Music was founded in response to a budget cuts in 1990s to increase the arts and education public schools, particularly in urban areas. Yes. In urban areas, they need shop class. Okay. So it's all about the kids. Nancy Pelosi only cares about the kids, but we're not talking about rich kids. We're not about rich white kids. We're talking about poor kids. OK, yes. What do poor kids need? Well, they need a trade.

They need a livelihood. They need to make money. They're not going to Stanford and Harvard. Get that out of your fucking mind. They're not going there. And you don't want them there. You want them working, applying, having a trade, having some pride, having some dignity,

getting a paycheck, contributing to society, paying taxes. That's what you want. And by the way, we need them there. We don't need another Stanford grad and some sort of theoretical construct. We need boots on the ground. Yeah. And by the way, maybe half of the people

with all those humanities degrees would be much better off with some sort of trade training. Listen, I'm so shitty at that stuff. I was thinking of myself, I thought, you're so talented that I'm so shitty at that. If I were to go to a trade school, I would be like a D student. You know what I mean?

It's kind of interesting, right? Yeah, I guess. I mean, I don't know. You do have the flippers for arms, you knock stuff over a lot. But I think you would, I think it's a lot of procedural stuff. I think you would kind of get it.

I think you would, I think it's a lot of procedural stuff. I think you would kind of get it. I think it's doable. I don't know if I was inherently handy. I had a huge interest in it. There's a difference between guys who can play sports and guys who are really interested in sports. You know what I mean? Usually not even the same two people, you know, or the same person. But you do really learn like technique, technique,

techniques and just what everything does and sort of how to do it. And it really is, it's really a good thing to apply. And like I said, it does, I think it keeps you sane. It just keeps your brain sort of on track. But also, it's appealing. I mean, I thought myself, Shit, I learned how to build an engine. I should go back to try it. It's like, it's so appealing.

No, it is. It is. Just be able to build something. It's appealing. And it's like, it's super satisfying. And I'm telling you that robbing basically a generation of that sort of satisfaction is not a good way to go. It makes for a lot of what you're seeing, a lot of the craziness and a lot of, you know, it's kind of a thing where it's like,

you can get up and rip a bong load and play video games and you can get up and have a cocktail and play video games, but you can't really get up, have a bong load or a cocktail and then like go into the shop and set up the table saw. You just, it's dangerous obviously, but it's also, you're not motivated to do that. Like I've done tons of get up in the morning and go work, and I've done tons of get up in the morning

and have a cocktail, but it's never been the same day. You know, I've never said, oh, I'm gonna have a couple of beers, then I'm gonna head in and I'll get some work done. It's not, you just go, nah, I've never said, oh, I'm going to have a couple of beers, then I'm going to head in and I'll get some work done. It's it's not you just go, no, I got to work. You know, you don't want to do all the. All the kind of bad stuff or the stuff, you know, I'm going to sit around and look at porn on the Internet for a couple hours and have rip a bong low.

Then I'll go into the shop. You know, you don't really have that. They go into the shop, guys, get up, they get up early and they just go into the shop. You don't really have that. The go into the shop guys get up, they get up early and they just go into the shop. You know? Or the work site, right? Right, yeah, the job site, whatever. Like you really, you don't, like I said, I smoked pot one time in the morning before work,

a million, you know, like when I was like 21 or something, I was miserable the whole day. I was just I hated it. I hate I wanted because I wanted to eat and sit down, you know, and I was hanging drywall and I was fucking up. And I did it. I swear to God, I, you know, I was probably 19. Like I did it one time and I was like not not doing this ever again. But but would be happy to smoke pot later on that night,

when I got home and I was just gonna watch TV. It sounds like a dumb metaphor, but it sort of creates healthiness. First off, you get up early every day, which there's no blue collar job that starts at know, there's no blue collar job that starts at 10. There's no blue collar job that starts at nine or eight. They start at seven, you know?

And so you're up, like, and you're moving, and you're doing stuff early. And it just, it just, I am positive that it's connected to a mental health that we're not seeing out there. And I'm also, here's another one, Drew, you ready? Right. The people that work in that world, by and large,

have just a better head on their shoulders in terms of, they're just mentally better. I saw it all through COVID. I saw no blue collar guys panic during COVID. I saw all white collar people panic during COVID. None of the workers, the people, the Mexican just working the grill at the steak house. It was nothing for them.

Life goes on. That's how it works. It was all mental. It was nothing for them. Life goes on. That's how it worked. It was all mental. And I wonder that we've shoved so many women into the workplace, but they're not on the job site.

They're in the white collar world. They're in the cubicles with the air conditioning, with the sort of endless staring at screens. And so all of a sudden, you go from, let's say 19, let's just say it's 1950, right? The job site has about 0% women working on it, right? In 1950. And the workplace has 15% women, 10%, you know,

whatever it is. Now fast forward to 2025, the workplace has 50% women and the job site has 1%. Right. They didn't go on to the job site. You can go to any, I'll put it to you this way. They're gonna rebuild palisades, Pasadena, Malibu, there's 5,000, 6,000 parcels they're building on.

Go walk on all of them. Tell me how many women you see. You're not gonna see one woman for every 100 guys. You're gonna see one woman for every 300 guys. Yeah, do you think there's a way to improve that? Or is there such a, you know, such a, sort of lack of interest? I don't look at it as an improvement.

I, they don't want to do it. No, I understand, but can you, can you motivate them to do it nevertheless? I don't know. I don't want to motivate people to do stuff they don't want to do. Well, it's good for them, right? Yeah, I don't think that's the answer, but I agree it should be out there and kind of they should explore that and it should know it's an option. So now you have 50% of women in white collar kind of air conditioning cubicle world and now they're going insane because you're pushing them out and you're forcing them to do something

they don't with the men with the men who are going insane as well. And that's what we're experiencing. I'm telling you, nobody on a farm thinks like they think. You can't, you get killed or you starve or you freeze. I think we had an example of this and this young woman who I guess this was down in Montenegro was doing this parasailing activity and she got panicky up there and unbuckled herself and jumped off the parasail and died.

Yeah, I heard about that. I mean, talk about zero gravity. I mean, expecting what? Right? Yeah, I don't. I do know there's people who panic You know when the lifeguard is trying to pull them out of the water and try to drown both of them

You know yes weird It's a weird thing for me because I have the opposite of that which is yes No pulse no pulse panic. Yeah, and you know people go How do you know and I go I know because I've been in race cars that have been all Completely out of control, and I don't I don't have a reaction. I've actually seen you videos of you just like, see, I've seen I've seen what you do. Nothing. Well, yeah, I've determined that nothing is usually the best in

those situations. But Jay Leno does the same thing when he remembers in that heavy under glass and flipped it. Yeah, yeah no it's it's it's interesting and then uh and then the extreme opposite is the complete lack of thought like if I were parasailing and what'd she do unbuckle and fell into the ocean? Yeah. At 300 feet or something? Exactly, something like that. See, if I were panicking in a parasail, my reaction would be something more pragmatic,

like signaling whoever was in the boat to, you know, throttle down or whatever. I might, I wouldn't panic, but if I did panic, it'd be like a pragmatic panic, which may be not be a panic at all. I had panic disorder when I was younger, and so I get what that is and how out of control people get.

But that's a special level, though, where I can understand somebody just bearing down and closing their eyes, in what may, but killing yourself, quite literally, it's like somebody going to the airplane, aircraft door and opening it, you know, 30,000 feet. That's an insanity. Yeah, I don't know that they... Well, obviously, they don't think they're killing themselves. Well, obviously they don't think they're killing themselves. They have something that's like so overwhelming that they can't... All they want... it's like the people who jumped out of the building during 9-11,

all they wanted is something different than what was. Right. Right. They weren't killing themselves. They were going to catch on fire. So they wanted something different. Yes. You know what I mean? Yes. And

this is that except for minus the fire. Right. And the burning up. Yeah. Well, yeah, people do the math. But yeah. But it's but it's a point is it's in And the burning up. Yeah. Well, yeah, people do the math. But yeah, but it's a but it's a point is it's in your brain burning up like, yeah, I'm very afraid of burning up even though there's no fire, which is kind of an interesting analogy for someone so much of the panicking that's going on these days kind of makes you wonder. I'm just sort of

picturing it but I've told people quite often and now I'm just sort of picturing it, but I've told people quite often, and now I'm guilty of not doing it myself, of when your kid turns 16, well, sorry, when your kid turns 18 and a half and gets his driver's license, because 16 year olds don't seem to want their driver's license anymore. But when your kid turns 19 and you force them

to get a driver's license, you should really take them to a defensive driving course or performance driving course. And they'll have you get out on the skid pad, and they'll wet it down, and you'll go around until the thing starts sliding and gets out of control, and you'll correct it. the thing starts sliding and gets out of control and you'll correct it, you know what I mean?

And like, just a little, you know, little, little, little spirited driving. You know, just really, really know what a car feels like and that kind of stuff. And I kind of wonder if there should be a thing where all adults, I shouldn thing where all adults, I shouldn't say all adults, but let's say before you graduate high school,

you have to participate in one of those sort of Navy aviator courses where they put you in a thing, it's like a slide hack and it goes down into a body of water and then you have to undo the harness and swim Out of it and whatever it you know Stuff you did special forces kind of stuff that kind of stuff That's like the everyone should just do that when you're 17 just to get the feeling of what it's like to be Sort of trapped in this area

Harnessed up buckled up boom into the water You know you undo your harness and you swim up to safety trapped in this area, harnessed up, buckled up, boom, into the water. You know, you undo your harness and you swim up to safety. That would do a lot of good for a lot of people. I think it would have saved the parasailor woman. Well, it's it's in addition to being able to manage panic and manage your emotions. It's about mastery. So what's the opposite of a safe space when you're afraid of stuff, which is leaning in and mastery?

Right. All right. You can check me out. I'll be in Salt Lake City at Wise Guys doing two shows, the 13th and two shows on the 14th. Always fun down there. Then Vegas on the 19th over two shows on the 14th, always fun down there. Then Vegas on the 19th, over at Kimmel's Club, doing a couple of shows there. Drew, what do you got?

Dr. Dot Com asks Dr. Drew a round, we'll check it out. So, until next time, Adam Kroll for Dr. Usain. Mahalo. Podcasting isn't just about talking, it's about growing, engaging, and monetizing, and that's where Podcast One Pro comes in. Whether you're an independent creator or a major brand, Podcast One Pro gives you the tools you need to take your podcast to the next level. We're talking about premium hosting, advanced analytics, dynamic ad integration, and expert distribution, all designed to maximize your reach and revenue. Plus,

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