The Adam and Dr. Drew Show - Classic #167: Brian Koppelman

Episode Date: September 16, 2025

August 6, 2014Screenwriter Brian Koppelman joins Adam & Drew in studio for a discussion about a variety of topics including Drew’s hosting method on his HLN show, Brian’s screenwriting workshops, and how to know when the big moments in your life are upon you.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Enjoy this throwback is number 167. Adam and I interview Brian Koppelman. He's a screenwriter, and he joins us in studio for discussion about a lot of topics. Adam Krola here with an important message. We've worked the body, and the troll is against the ropes. The patent troll has thrown everything he's had at us, and we're still standing tall. We're going to wrap this thing up with a big haymaker. By clicking the Amazon banner on this show's website, we'll get a little kickback from every purchase you make, and it'll go directly to the podcast defense fund. So whether it's school supplies or a radar detector, we're going to get a little bit to deal the final blow and knock them out. So spend away, and thanks to everyone for your support. Buying a car can be a stressful experience, but True Car is changing car buying forever. Yes, every day, true car users receive negotiation-free, guaranteed savings.

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Every day, truecar.com users receive negotiation-free guaranteed savings. Save time, save money, and never overpay. Visit truecar.com today. That's truecar.com. This is Corolla Digital. Recorded live at Corolla One Studios with Adam Carolla and board-certified physician and addiction medicine specialist Dr. Drew Pinsky. You're listening to The Adam and Dr. Drew Show.

Yeah, get it on. Got to get it on. No choice but to get it on mandate. Get it on. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm Adam Carolla. That's a very confusing, Dr. Drew, over there. Confusing. Thank you for admitting you're confusing. No, I meant confusing. Brian Coppillman is here. He famously wrote Rounders, which I enjoyed quite a bit, and then Ocean 13, which I did not enjoy. We've covered that. I think you liked it more than you say, and I wrote those with David Levine. How did you guys meet? Blame it on David Levine. Adam and I met, well, we met in person here, but we had talked before and have a lot of mutual friends like Bill Simmons and Hensh.

Writing friends. I guess. Yeah, writing friends. Kevin Hanch. And the moment. You must have pursued the friendship because that doesn't pursue friendships with anything. No, I don't happen.

I called in. I was a fan. I've been listening to the two of you guys for years and years. And when I would, used to kind of split my time when I was young and in the music business, I would be driving them from recording studios late. And I would listen to the two of you. And, you know, you develop this real. sort of connection and bond and relationship.

And so when the podcast started, I love podcasts, and I would listen. And I think what happened was I called in once when Larry Miller was on, Adam's show, because I had a great Larry Miller story. And I brought up the Ocean's 13 thing. Adam liked my story and was like, come on anytime you want. So when I had a documentary on Jimmy Connors that my partner and I directed for 30 for 30, 30 for 30, we came in here, and that's what happened. Drew, and, of course, you and I know one another because your sister.

My sister and you worked together for a year. And I knew your sister for a long... Drew, I'm laughing. Hold on. Because Drew, you are one of these guys. You text and talk, and you think you can do both simultaneously. Yeah. But they're both suffering a little bit.

Okay. Unless you have an auxiliary brain somewhere. Am I texting right now? No, when I walked in Now, part of this is on me Because all I know is We're doing three shows You're in a shit-ass mood

No, not a shit-ass... I'm not a shitty mood You are in a shitty mood Well, first I have... Listen to me You even know when you're a bad mood anymore Listen to me. First off, Brian asked me how the movie's going And I said, I don't know

Because I can't edit it Because I'm always here And I do these podcasts And we'll get into that in a second and I'm flexible to your schedule because you do a lot of traveling and things like that. But it ends up being... Did I thank you for that? I don't remember.

May I thank you for that? Yes, you can't. I walk in and all I know is we're doing a bunch of podcasts today. You and I don't normally have guests on this show. True or false. True. I did feel very welcome when you walked in and you go, what the fuck is Brian doing here? Right.

I didn't say Brian. Did you say it to you or said it to me? No, you said that guy, maybe. Why is that guy here? I walked in. Well, here's... Here's what we do around here. We don't, we never have a guest on this show.

And then we do have a guest. Nobody says to me, oh, here's who's coming in tomorrow morning for the first show. Did you? Did I block it out? No, I said, my bad. Okay. So I come walking in to my studio, and I see a dude in the distance with a beard sitting at the end of the sofa. And then, hold on.

Hold on. Hold on. And then Dr. Drew walks up to me, and he goes, is Brian coming in? and I go Brian because you understand I work with a guy named Brian who has a brain tumor and I go Brian is he coming in and I said

I don't know I don't know if Brian's coming in or not now let me give you my piece I have a perspective I understand let me be shocking to you but the third time I look really confused and said I don't know that's the time to point that's Brian he's our guest

here's the deal when I walked in And Brian said, hey, it's Brian, I'm on your show. No, no, no, no, when I walked in. When I walked in, when I walked in. When Drew walked, I go, hey, Drew, and Drew looked at me. I was like, whoa, you didn't place me. We've met, but you didn't place me. It's a weird environment to see you.

I'm like, just in the, just so we cannot be embarrassed. Like what the president does when he walks. So finally I put, I put, I started. You guys tell us when guests who we know is coming in. I want to, I want my agency needs to be asserted here. So hold on a second. So I put Brian together. I'm starting to put together my head.

But the whole time, one of the reasons I was addled, I'm thinking, I wonder if Brian's on my show or Adam's show or the next Adam and Drew show. Why would he be on your show? I don't know. He's four hours early? Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. Your guest is four hours early.

I don't know. And so I don't want to ask in front of Brian, which show is the odd? So when you walked in, I intentionally said that under my breath. Because I thought these guys would jump. It's their fault. These guys fall over here. Let's blame them. Let's get her away.

Drew, I saw on your face when you saw me sort of panicked confusion, which is why I said my full name to you. That's why I said Brian Cobblerman. And then I even said, I'm going to be on. I think I said, I'm going to be on with you and Adam this morning. Yes, you did. But on my head, but on my head, it was the cast five hours early. Sit on your show. You said on your show.

And here's this great about the team, though. And Chris, which is I wrote Chris to say, because, you know, when I left last time, you were like, hey, when you're in L.A., let me know, come back whenever you want. Because I'm such a memorable. guest, obviously. And if you're really going to be sort of initiated into our environment here, you've got to be here during a fight. So I want to make sure we have a fight. Oh, no. And also, can I say this?

And I'll let Brian get to his point. Drew, the human brain, at least my brain, works, almost completely in context. Almost completely in context. Yes. I need context. Yes. And it's not even if you. That's a great point, by the way.

So we never have guests on this show, ever. And I was with all these ass wipes last night, and they always give me the kind of rundown. Sorry. They've been, you guys have been promoted to asswipes. It's always the, always the here's what we're doing tomorrow. Here's what we're doing tomorrow as I leave. So when I hear nothing about you and we never have guests on the show, and we oftentimes have friends and family members have said ass wipes, and or stray fans, just sort of sitting in the back, you know, checking out the show.

When I come walking in, I have no context. You see what I'm saying? Yes. In my mind, it is, it is, and we have no gas. You need a Drew to say, Brian compliment to you. That would have helped. The full name would have. Well, I work with a guy named Brian.

I was understanding everything because I wasn't sure it was this or the next show and I was pretending like I knew it was going on. And so that's really. That's why I was, like, I don't know what you want to. Because I too, we don't normally have guests. to, well, which go, which show, which one. And then I got, I got going with something else with Chris on the GoPro and all this. So I completely forgot that I was concerned about this.

You walked in. I realized I hadn't straightened everything out. And that's when I started. You're feeling me out. That's what I literally was looking at my phone, not doing anything. So that's, first off, some of the best acting you've ever done. By the way, everyone on earth is in your fucking movie, except me. I needed talented actors.

Message received. Thank you. Well done. Anyway, sorry, Brian Cappellman. When I did write Chris to say, because, you know, that podcast Patentroll documentary, you guys asked, or these guys asked me to be in it. We interviewed Brian at Central Park. Chris Farry on top of his own shit. We never accused him of not being interesting.

Interviewed me for that thing. And so then I wrote him, I said, hey, I'm coming out. I'd love to come on the podcast with Adam. And he said, well, that show this week isn't going to work, but Adam would love to have you on, as though you guys had discussed this. and made a plan. Well, that's... This is brutal. Let me explain.

I assumed, oh, Carolla. Why do you guys let this get to you? Let me explain about it. That's part of the P. So one more thing you're going to love. Can I say one more thing that I'm going to love? And I don't mean to sell you out, Chris. Oh, that's fine.

But I also wrote Chris maybe three paragraphs where I go, you know, because they had seen me a while, let me just tell you some of the things so that might be subjects that these guys could know about. And I did give you a whole thing to hand them. They have it. They have everything. mention his documentary. Now, it is, and Brian, I'm glad you're here.

It's just there's a contextual thing, like when you see people out of place. Well, that's what I was processing. So you know me, and that's why I said, you and I are Facebook friends. You know me. Yes, we are. But I said my full name, because when you deal with people who are in the public, you don't, for you to. It's context. Yeah, my face isn't familiar.

So I'm not a famous person. I'm, you know, I work in movies, but I'm a famous person. So I always say my first and last name, which is why I did that to you. But then you just said, Brian to him leaving him in the lurch. Yeah, yeah. Well, and I work with a guy named Brian, who has a brain consumer. I thought he was coming in. And then he said, is he coming in?

Not into the studio, but just coming in as if he wasn't in here, on the premises. So a lot of confusion. But, anyway, Brian's sister and I worked together. She was my co-host on HLN show. And she had a really good job. And she and I knew each other for a long time before. that. I loved being a guest on her show. You've ever done her show at Sirius? I think he did do her show. I don't know.

Jenny Hut. Jenny Hut. She was Drew's co-host for, I got to have her name. Around a year. Did her show? You did her radio show in New York a couple months back. I'm going to, but see, for me, and this is how I, how I, well, it's an interesting thing. Maybe we can talk about this. I don't remember anything. I do remember things like this. I have this conversation with my wife and other people all the time. They say things like, well, the pool man wants five grand a change to filter. And then I go, what?

And then they go, I told you that six months ago. And then I go, no, you didn't. And they go, yeah, I did. And then I go, no, you didn't? And they go, yeah, I didn't. And I go, you want to know how I know you didn't say that six months ago? Because right now I'm saying, what? And I'm saying, I'll go down Home Depot and get the own filter and we'll do it ourselves.

I'm having this conversation. That's how I know. So it's a sort of reactive memory. Like, I know six months ago exactly this wasn't said to me or this was said to me. Because you wouldn't be having this conversation. But in terms of like shows I've done, I put those, I file those under, I don't need these anymore bank. That goes into the hopper of I don't need this information. It's not going to help me down the road.

To me, it's a basically, I'm. packing it's weird i'm packing for a camping trip and i have a backpack and doing someone else's show no matter whose it is is an empty can of beans yeah and i just i don't want it my backpack right because i have a limited amount of time of space now some people have all the space in the world for that but i don't i'm always what's the next one you just loaded under oh is that my sister you just i'm looking at it right now you just loaded under a press tour for the book and it's all under press store for the book and then you discard it when you're done Exactly, and I don't want it using up file space in my noggin for, because, now, it does come in handy on occasion, but it's rare occasion.

Yeah, I always think I have these band members names in my head. I was saying this yesterday, my son, who is out there, like, I can name the members of so many rock bands. And it's though, I wish I could delete those files. Why don't we need to know John Deegan was the bass player for Queen? There's a useless, useless piece. Early stuff goes in and stays in. Yeah, you just wish you could go, you know, repurpose that. Take that right.

Do that hard drive, that piece erase where then you can repurpose and reuse that stuff. I'll give you something I learned when I was eight that I could use some space for. All the misery about your mom and grandma. Well, that I use. The guy's beating you up and throwing feces on you? Well, they shoved at my ear, but it wasn't, they weren't beating me up. uh there's fun in the water but there's danger too and you gotta swim well so nothing happens to you learn how to swim at the ymc a Learned how to swim, but never swim alone

Their safety in numbers don't strike out on your own And never dive unless you know The water's not too shallow and it's clear below I've used up a ton of fucking bandwidth in my brain And I don't need it anymore But there it is Yes, I'm with you And my poor Brian's sister got thrown into scrap heap

She's on a garbage barge In my brain being picked at by gulls Going down the Hudson River right now The song will always In Lusite, it's in case I want to go back to show we've done that we just you and I just forget about somebody asked me that if we had done Magic Johnson's show and I was like yeah I think we did I have no I didn't we well there

was a time from like 1996 to 1999 yeah a whole bunch of black late night shows we did them all well think we did we did my recollecting a couple times did Keenan a couple times yeah we did that a few times I knew by the way here's how I knew Keenan was done. Because we kept showing up. Well, I was showing up. He was, we were sitting next to him and we're coming back from a commercial break. And a lot of times, guys will roll the prompter to come back from a break.

Before they come back from a break, they'll just go, they'll do that thing where they'll go, hey, yeah, just roll it. And they'll go, all right, rejoining us, Dr. Drew, board center, five, seven, love line on MTV. They'll just roll it. So we were just sitting next to. them and we like sort of came back. All right. Hymns is not going to solve all your interpersonal problems, but performance issues, they will help with that.

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Actual price will depend on product and subscription plan. Featured products include compounded drug products, which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness or quality, prescription required. see website for details, restrictions, and important safety information. We're coming to the end of a commercial set, and he was doing what I thought was rolling the prompter, just kind of skimming the thing and doing the thing. And then he turned to us, and he said, now, how's it going over there on MTV? And I realized, oh, no, we're in the show.

This is the show. This is the show. That's great. I thought he seemed like an athlete who was stretching out before the, no, no, that was the race. And you're like, what, that was the race? That's how disconnected he was at that point in the show where he just rolled through that prompter, but the light was on on top of the camera. I was so out of it during all of that.

I got to tell you, apology. I did Magic. I did the Magic Johnson show, but I think I did the practice. He had to do a week of practice guests. I remember we were there. I was a practice guest on Seth Meyer's show. It's an interesting thing to be a practice guest. We were the first practice guest on Donnie and Marie.

Remember that? No, we weren't. But wait, I think you missed something, golden words that Drew just said to you. I apologize. He doesn't get past it. No, I was going to get back to it. Hold on a second. I apologize, he said.

A couple of things. A couple of things. First off, Donnie Marie, we did that show because we had to wait for Pam Anderson, who was running late. No, no, no, no. I think you're confusing a couple of memories. No? Because remember what's his name? Who was the producer, Donnie Marie?

God damn it. had a stroke, American bandstand. Oh, Dick Clark. Dick Clark came up to us and said, thank you for being a, remember this? No, let me say two things. Yeah. First off, you never did magic. I did the magic.

I'm pretty sure I did. All right, now we're going to have to find out. Find out, please. I did the magic practice show as far as I know without you, or maybe you and I did it. But it was a quiet. Okay. It was a practice show. Maybe.

We never did the show on air. That could be. Number one, you're saying all black people look alike, because that's what your mind is saying, even if your mouth is saying something else. So that's number one. Keenan, we did like 128 times. And then there's a whole bunch of other shows. There's vibe, Chris Spencer, and that kind of stuff. Chris Spencer.

Yes. So now. Sinbad, remember that? Yes, I do. Because he said, we're as different as heckle and Jekyll. And I thought the two magpies that speak with the cockney accent that look exactly the same. telling him where we go. I said, see you next week in a brand new show.

Right, I said, I think he meant to say Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hine. There's clearly what he meant to say. But he said, heckle Jekyll, and he couldn't have picked two things. They were exactly the same. I couldn't have picked the same voice, same everything. I couldn't tell you which one was different. There were twins, yeah. You guys are different as those twins from the Shining.

So I didn't stop and correct him, but I thought it was that I remember. Now, Donnie Marie. Yeah, yeah. That was a quiet. Donnie Marie, we could have done a practice show on, but my main memory from Donnie Marie is we showed up, we were the second guest, and we were waiting on Pam Anderson. Okay, that could be. And she was like an hour late, and we kept apologizing to us because we had to go on after her.

And then later on, when Pam Anderson was an hour late for MTV, I had my meltdown. Yes. And Adam screamed. He insisted the show begin without her and streamed that we were all enabling her by not waiting. By waiting. We just got to get the show going and then screamed to the publicist for being so enabling. No, I like it as a strategy for the argument. And we started the show. It's a really great attack that it's enabling. It's bad for Pam if we wait. Yeah. It's not that it's a pain of my ass or I don't want to wait. This is bad for her. I love it. Hold on. It's the way adults think. It's the way parents should think. It's the way any instructors or coaches think, which is Pam Anderson is perpetually late. Why? Because nobody says a word to that bitch. Her publicist, remember I was standing with her publicist in our dressing room? And I'm saying, you tell her, stop showing up late. And she said, it's not my job. And I said, whose fucking job is it? So it's exactly enabling, which is this.

she's going to do Donnie Marie She shows up an hour and late For an hour late for Donnie Marie Do you think Dick Clark's like Hey, cunt You cost us two grand Or you think it's like Okay Pam, we understand completely

Let's just get you into hair and makeup Would you like an Evian? Right. What is the lesson? Zero lesson She shows up an hour late to do Loveline How Pam? No, we understand traffic Thank you so much We're just glad you could be here

No problem at all Well, if there is a ferry That's leaving the dock at 7 a.m. And it fucking leaves without you a couple mornings in a row. How often you're going to be late after that? And Adam's move was to shame her on camera. Well, we have a guest, but she's not here because...

It's not a bad move. It was good. I said, Dr. Drew, how would this work with any... In your line of work? What would you do? Be an enabler? No, you'd move on. I saw a great thing.

You know the comedian Mike Berbiglia? Yeah. So Berbiglia is doing this new one-man show, and he invited us to like sort of an early one where he's doing it. And he starts out by talking about how rude it is to be late. congratulates everyone for getting there on time it's a really great bit and then they let a couple stragglers into the theater house lights up he walks right up to them in the audience he goes what's your reason what's your excuse

because you knew when the show started dude yeah yeah and they go well yeah why can you get here well uh the train and he goes it's always the train for you it's the train we're just characters in your story yeah we don't exist well that's right separately that's what that means i was brilliant i was brilliant it is brilliant i uh well if you want to know the end of the story after waiting about 45 minutes and we would gang tape three or four shows a day. So when somebody would be late in the middle,

it was big trouble. Everything got bumped back and I want to get the fuck out of there. So after she was late and I knew she was perpetually late, I said, let's get started. Because you and I had done many shows minus the guest.

Yeah. And I said... We didn't give a shit. We didn't like having guests, if you remember. Right. We prefer not. I get the sense.

I can understand the feeling of that now. You guys have made that extraordinarily clear. Once this knows over there, does a podcard. Anyway, back to me and Dr. Drew. So I said, look, let's start the show. And everyone said, but Pam Anderson's not here. And I said, we will start the show. And then when she shows up, she can join the show.

But we should not wait any longer for her. It's been 45 minutes as is. And we'll send that message. And we'll start the show by saying our guest isn't here. She's late. but when she does show up, she'll come walking in and we'll make something out of it. By the way, it's what grown-ups do, right? I mean, there's a reason that I was a guest on your show this morning.

I mean, I forced myself in here. I broke in last night and Sunday. But, I mean, I was here 15 minutes before either. Because, you know, you guys have a show to start. So I'm not going to show up dates. I'm going to show up on time. It's very disrespectful. And in this case, meaning when you show up late and you're going to meet a friend out for lunch

or are you going to meet a friend out for a movie? It's disrespectful, but that's quiet. But that's you and your friend. This is, including the audience, 134 people. I mean, crew, producers, me and Drew. I mean, when you're Pam Anderson and you're an hour late, you don't have your friend waiting for you at the cafe is getting caught up on some texting.

You have a group of 150 people, makeup, hair, camera people, producers. I mean, Drew's at 150 people. At least. And then the next show. And then the next show, and then the next show getting bumped back. So it's wildly, it's insanely rude to the people. So my feeling was, is you have a choice. You can be late. That's fine. We also have a choice. We can begin our show. So I started the show and everyone said, no, no, no, we can't start without Pam. And I yelled at everyone. Literally. I mean, yelled. Get into your position. Get into your position. You You can imagine. Everyone was like, no, no, he had to scream everybody into position and yell, roll cameras, and let's go.

And so we started rolling cameras. And Drew, by the way, if you want to apologize, apologize for never having my back on any of these ideas ever. You know what? You know what? You're right. And I apologize. Thank you. And I had no, you can understand something. I had no judgment and no perception about this business.

Zero. I was busy practicing medicine all the time. It's not the business. But my head was in a completely. I had a different discipline going on. I would say, hey, I'm not coming in unless we get a security guard. And Drew would go like, I'll be fine. And I'd go, shut up, Drew.

Shut up. Get on the same page with me. But, Drew, do you think you still have sort of like, even though I know what you think about authority and decision makers a lot of the time? Do you think that sometimes you still have that pattern or not? Have you broken it? I have more of an awareness. Because, like, when I would watch your show with my sister, this isn't about my sister on your show. Yeah. But because she was on the show, and I've heard, I know Adam's opinion of the show, but I've heard him say it. But I know that you have to know how bankrupt many of your panelists are. First of all, how dare you. I know that you know, because I know how bright a person you are, right? And so I know you know. And this is a thing Adam talks about in his show all the time, that not everybody actually has a right. Everyone has a right to their opinion in their head, but not everybody's opinion has validity. Right.

And so some people are there for polemicism. That's why they're there. They're there to create. They want to marry animals? They're there for the polemic. They're there to be on a poll for sure. No, they are there for sure to stake out the poll of an argument. But my question is this.

Often, I've noticed, and I've wondered about it because I've watched you and listened to you in every form, everything you've done, right? And I think the rehab show is brilliant and helpful. and I, uh, the way that people attack that, yeah, but the way that people attack that is bullshit because that's right in your core area and you're able to express and articulate the, the who that you are. So who cares what the people think? Because you know you're actually prosecuting an agenda that matters a lot to you and you know the difference you're making. But I watch you on this show and I hear when Adam talks about what he thinks doesn't, like, why he, he never lets me hear this. I'm very curious. He says it on a show sometimes, but here, here's just a cluster fuck.

Yeah, but here's, my question, my question for you is this. Yeah, right. Right. You are, I'd say you have 50 IQ points on many of those people. Not only that, you're more well read than most of those people. And yet, by according them, and it's, it's, I was think of Murrow sometimes. By according, who wouldn't, by according these people, the television, none of the cameras, but by you not being actively skeptical, by you just letting them fight it out like he's saying, by you not saying, hold on here. Actually, as not only the host of this show, but the reason this show exists, and as a rationalist. That argument is specious. I'm curious why you don't do that because here you hold him accountable. You hold him accountable. Because it, television has a very different rhythm. Thank you, guest. Go ahead. Right? Yeah. Thank you guest. Now, I let Drew give his bullshit answer and then I'll. No, it's television, first of all, I mean, I have my own, you know, this way. It's appealing to a certain kind of audience, right? I mean, the people that may not understand some of the things I want to say.

I don't agree with that. Yeah. Go ahead. Well, I would like to be on CNN and be able to do that, but that's a different audience. It's very different. And I sort of feel like my job is to, because of the way people digest that show, as I understand it. Yeah. by just stopping and stopping the conversation and saying, hey, no, no, as opposed to crafting it in such a way and creating the conflict that I know eventually that person will be sort of shown to be specious, that's sort of what I seem to feed my job to be, is to make it come out that way, but not to stop the rhythm and say, it's not, you don't think you could read, because I hear you talking about even the way in the past, as sort of institutional passivity that you.

you would engage in because you felt like it was the right thing. I understand why. I understand the other argument we all do to not like do the pan. It's a giant thing to say we're going to go and screw Pam Anderson. Who cares? As it would be a giant thing for you to say that. But I would watch your show and I would start yelling at the television because I go, he's such a fucking smart guy. He knows. Even if I disagree with your opinions when you voice them. They come from this very legitimate place. And I watch you there and it feels like a guy in a box. You're so good at this shit, and I wish that you would grab, and obviously it was frustrating for me

to watch my sister not be able to do that too, because that was the position she was in. It was a bad spot for her because of it. But you guys sometimes don't, and I wouldn't have brought this up if Adam didn't just bring up that other thing, but you're a great interrogator.

And you could really do it by going like... We used to do that on the show. With the ratings. Well, listen, we learn people don't. Don't. I mean, you're watching. You don't think you could bring that. I'm trying. I tried to do it by at the end, I'm trying to give it.

I realize I haven't been doing that much lately. Drew's a, he's a pleaser. That's true. Number one. Yes. So if somebody stands in front of us and says something like, you know, when I would say, look, you've got to have a security guard because we're getting death threats out in this dark parking lot. I give you two weeks to have it.

And then two weeks would come and go. And then the person would go, give us another two weeks. I'd say, no, you don't get another two weeks. And Drew would look at me and go, oh, give him another two weeks. him another two weeks. So he was, he's a pleaser by nature. Number one, number two. And some of those is being so trained into being taskmastering, too. If there's somebody above me saying, dude, it's got to be this way. I just do it. I didn't think about it. Right. But, but he's also puss. And he doesn't want to get any shit from anybody. And the reason

he will lock antlers with me is he'll lock antlers with me when I come up with a topic that is so-called, you know, racially charged or insensitive or whatever, he'll just ride the middle of that fence because he hates a negative tweet so badly that he's basically been forced into the same space that 96% of people that have a microphone, have a keyboard, or have a television camera perch in front of them, which is, I don't want to get shit. So when something happens out there, no matter how mundane it is, I'm going to act wildly outraged. I will act outrage. So if a guy who's early onset Alzheimer's says something to his whore girlfriend about the blacks,

I'm going to sit there and there'll be no difference between that and whatever's going on in Darfur in terms of my moral indignation. So I'll just be morally outraged at everything all the time. and then all being the happy camp of likable people who are outraged over everything all the time. And then everyone will like me and then I won't get any shit.