THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST - EP.271 - JOSH JOHNSON

Episode Date: May 11, 2026

Adam talks with American stand up comedian and Daily Show correspondent Josh Johnson about not drinking alcohol, growing up in Louisiana, alligator gumbo, David Blaine, pranksters, responding to tragic and shocking current events in his stand up sets, and what tourists dislike most about the UK. And in the outro, Adam talks about his recent live shows with the band and a moment of Beatles communion in Liverpool.Conversation recorded face-to-face in London on 23 January, 2026SUBMIT QUESTIONS FOR Q&A EPISODE: [e-mail] VPNEXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/buxton  Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee!Thanks to Diggory Waite and Claire Broughton at Hattrick and Séamus Murphy Mitchell for production support.Podcast illustration by Helen GreenTHE ADAM BUXTON BAND MAY 2026 TOUR ADAM BUXTON & MIRANDA SAWYER @ CHARLESTON FESTIVAL 14 May 2026, 9pmBUG BOWIE SPECIAL @ THE LIGHTROOM 17 June, 2-4 July, 2026 ADAM BUXTON PODCAST LIVE WITH MAWAAN RIZWAAN @ ROUNDHOUSE, 5 April, 2026RELATED LINKSJOSH JOHNSON - DRAKE VS KENDRICK EXPLAINED TO WHITE PEOPLE - 2024 (YOUTUBE)JOSH JOHNSON LIVE @ SOHO THEATRE, WALTHAMSTOW - 2025 (YOUTUBE)JOSH JOHNSON - THE FAILURE, FEAR AND FRENZY AROUND LUIGI MANGIONE - 2024 (YOUTUBE)JOSH JOHNSON - IT'S LITERALLY ICE VS. GOOD - 2026 (YOUTUBE)JOSH JOHNSON - CATFISHING THE KKK - 2017 (YOUTUBE)JOSH JOHNSON PODCASTS (JOSH JOHSNON WEBSITE)DAVID BLAINE AND EAMONN HOLMES ON GMTV - 2001 (YOUTUBE)ADAM & GAZ COOMBES - I BELIEVE IN FATHER CHRISTMAS - 2014 (YOUTUBE) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin. Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening. I took my microphone and found some human folk. Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke. My name is Adam Buxton. I'm a man. I want you to enjoy this. That's the plan. Hey, how are you doing podcasts? It's Adam Buxton here. I'm out in the fields of Norfolk with my best dog friend Rosie. Rosie is pausing to do some important business. How's things, Rosie? I am doing important business. Yes, sorry to interrupt. She's very well. It's quite a cold, blustery day out here in the early part of May.

2026 and it's actually really quite cold. I shouldn't have worn shorts. I don't know what I was thinking. Well, I was thinking that it was summertime after yesterday. Yesterday it was beautiful. Anyway, now it's freezing. I'm wearing shorts and it was a mistake. Hey, thank you so much to everyone who came out to the first few Adam Buxton Band live shows. It's been a rock and roll dream come true. Not just for me, I dare say, but for the audience as well, who I think have probably never seen

that level of musicianship on a live stage before. We had wonderful support from Anna B. Savage. Wow, she was fantastic. Really nice to see her performing and get to chat to her a little bit. Wonderful to meet some of you as well after the shows for in-depth micro-discussions, signatures, and creepy hugs at the merch table. Yes, I know we're missing a trick,

not doing an unabsorbent tea towel. But, I don't know. There's still time, maybe at the London shows. Still a few more tickets for Brighton on Tuesday and Margate on Wednesday this week. And then we're in Buxton. That'll be intense. Manchester and Leicester.

And we're in London for a couple of nights towards the end of June. There's links in the description for those music shows. Really, you should come if you're around. It's been really fun. I might waffle a bit about some of the shows at the end of the podcast today. Also, don't forget those Bowie Bug shows at the Lightroom in Kings Cross on the 17th and 30th of June and 2nd and 3rd of July. Those are nearly sold out, so do get in there. Now, ow, my legs are getting stung by net owls.

One more live event shout at before we get into things this week. On the 5th of August this year, I'll be doing a live podcast. The only one that I'm planning on doing this year, that's going to be at Camden's iconic roundhouse venue as part of this year's Roundhouse Comedy Festival, where I will be waffling on stage with Marwan Rizwan, the former YouTube sensation turned BAFTA-winning writer and star of TV sitcom Juice. He's a very talented and funny man. I'm looking forward to hanging out with him. I hope you can make it along. Link for tickets to the Roundhouse Comedy Festival in the description. Okay, let me tell you a bit about podcast.

number 271. Right now, which features a rambling conversation with American stand-up comedian Josh Johnson. Josh Fax! Josh was born in 1990 and grew up in Alexandria, Louisiana, southeastern USA, where he was raised by parents who were both teachers. He earned a degree in lighting design for the theater in 2012, and after graduating he moved to Chicago with plans to pursue design work, but soon found himself, drawn to the city's comedy scene, where he performed at open mic nights, honing his stand-up skills, before eventually moving to New York City. There, in 2018, Josh was named New York's funniest stand-up at the New York Comedy Festival. It was around this time that Josh landed writing jobs on the Tonight Show, starring Jimmy Fallon, and The Daily Show, where he eventually became one of the on-screen

correspondence in February 2024. In 2020, In 2025, Josh was promoted to the weekly rotation of hosts on that show. Over the last half decade, Josh has built a huge audience on YouTube where he regularly releases full stand-up sets and short specials rather than following the more traditional model of honing an hour of material for several months before releasing a special. In his unusually thoughtful, curious and conversational style, Josh mulls over subjects that have included AI and job insecurity,

race in America, the KKK, and the rap battle between Drake and Kendrick Lamar. My conversation with Josh was recorded face-to-face in London towards the end of January this year, 26. Just a couple of hours after Josh had landed in London to do a few shows at the Soho Theatre. We talked about why Josh has never drunk alcohol, about life in Louisiana, alligator gumbo, how at one time it looked as though he might become a magician rather than a comedian. And we spoke about David Blaine, pranksters and other people who are determined to mess with your mind. When we spoke, Josh had recently uploaded a set to YouTube in which he responded to the killing of René Good by an ice agent in Minneapolis in January. And we talked about

how he is able to find any comedy around such shocking events. It was the day after I spoke with Josh that another Minneapolis resident, Alex Preti, was also killed at the hands of ice agents. We also talked about another of Josh's sets in which he discussed another murder, this time of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson, who was walking to an investor conference in Midtown Manhattan on December 4, 2024, when he was shot from behind by Luigi Mangione. and I asked Josh about one instance of criticism he received in the form of a heckle from an audience member who felt that Josh was defending the murderer. Unfortunately, in my conversation with Josh, we mistakenly referred to the murdered CEO Brian Thompson as Brian Johnson, like the ACDC lead singer. Total ignorance on my part.

In Josh's defense, he had just got off a transatlantic flight. I didn't realize the mistake until after Josh had left, so it wasn't possible to record a correction. Apologies for that. I'll be back at the end to tell you a little bit about my plan to start doing regular Q&A episodes of this podcast, and I'll be telling you how you can take part in those. But right now with Josh Johnson, here we go.

Rumble chat, let's have a ramble chat. Will they concentrate on that. Come on, let's chew the fat conversation coat and find your talking hat. Now, you've just got off a plane, is that right? I did, I did. And are you a disciplined person when you're traveling? Are you up there having champagne and shots, or are you thinking no caffeine, no alcohol?

I've got to maintain my physical stability. I mean, I wouldn't call it discipline. I would say it's more having a weak constitution. You know what I be? I don't drink coffee because I'm awake, but at what cost? Like what I feel terrible, I'm jittery, my stomach hurts. Like, it feels like if you could take a magic pill that would wake you up and also make you miserable. And I just don't agree with it.

So you have tried it, though? Oh, I've had coffee. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've never had a drink, though. Have you never had a drink? No.

How come? Lots of different reasons, I suppose. but I guess I'll put it this way. If I were to start drinking now, you'd have to find your limit, right? And finding your limit is usually something you do in your 20s. No one wants to help you while you find your limit in your 30s. No one has patience for it. No one has time for it.

Like when you're young and you, especially those first few years, you can even legally drink and you maybe have a bit too much or your friend has to help you home or whatever, it's like, all right, we're all about the same age and we're finding our life. limit. If someone needs to do that for you in your 30s, you quickly seem like you have a drinking problem, like almost immediately. Let's say it's your third time drinking ever. And even if they know that, even if everyone around you knows, this person's only drank three times, but you are so drunk you need to be carried somewhere, people are like, you probably shouldn't drink. Yeah, I suppose it's like any kind of attempts at learning things that seem quirky and

endearing in a young person seem much less attractive in an older person. I mean, I'm finding that now. I've just started playing chess. Oh, yeah. And I'm very bad. And it's so aggravating to be bad when you're not a kid. When you're, like, when you're, when you're a kid, you're bad at everything. So it's kind of par for the course that you're going to be bad at a new hobby or a new game or something.

But you get generally good at the things that you do, especially by the time you're hopefully in your 20s and everything. So when you start something completely new that takes you back all the way back to like when you were bad at something at a child's level, it is so jarring. Because you're like, no, but I remember logic. I have a brain. I swear I can read. And then you get, you know, checked in like three moves.

And you're like, maybe I am not as smart as I thought, not just at Jess, but in life. Did you, for example, grow up in an environment where no one was drinking, where everyone was quite together? Yeah, I mean, I didn't really grow up around drinking in that way. I mean, I'm sorry to fixate on drinking, but it's always been a big part of my life. And it's a big part of UK life, not that it's not in the States, but I think the attitudes to alcohol are slightly different in the States than they are in the UK. I mean, if anything, it seems like, and I could be completely off base here, but it seems like in the UK, drinking has a much closer attachment to third places. Like, you're not necessarily always drinking at home, and you definitely don't necessarily drink at work, but to build the camaraderie with either your workmates or friends or anything, you know, you go to the pub. You go to these places where a drink is communal.

And so I think that... Anyway, it doesn't have to be the pub. could be the graveyard, could be a wood, could be just a wide open space, a car park. I feel like if you have a drink in the graveyard, I'm never going to think you're celebrating. Do you have I mean, any of those other places, you could be like, no, you're having a drink and having a good time. Graveyard's the one place where I'm like, they're sad. You've run out of options. They are very sad.

Or you're just celebrating a kind of defiance of existence and just maybe it's a form of embracing. mortality in a very literal sense. Sure. Because I will even say this, that I found that when it came to drinking, there were different points in my life where, one, there was a long period where I was too broke to like a new thing. You know, like that right there. It's like, there's the buried entry right there. Then, you know, you can't drink until you're 21 in the States. And I was like a fairly good kids, so I would always worry a little bit about getting into trouble. Even if everyone around me was doing it, I was like, yeah, I don't, I don't know, I don't know. And then past that, you know, now you're over 21 and maybe you're not broke like you were before. Then I would hear

from my friends who are like, don't, like, don't drink, because then, you know, you'll have a headache or you'll, whatever the thing is. And I think that I've done my best decision-wise to like fill my life with things that bring a lot to it and try to like sidestep things that I at least personally feel like I could overindulge in or get a problem with. I don't think I would immediately have some sort of drinking problem, but I do try to avoid problems. Well, that's very wise. I do my best. Yeah. Yeah. But what are the reasons that people are attracted to alcohol? I mean, I would say one of them is that it frees them from. some of their inhibitions, makes them relax,

makes them feel that they can communicate more easily, perhaps. Yeah. And were those feelings never ones that you particularly struggled with? I mean, did you feel quite relaxed in yourself anyway so that you didn't maybe need to go out and have a drink? Maybe so. I mean, I think I accepted a long time ago how, like, weird I was and am. I think it would be me sort of trying to side,

step them meeting me for a little longer. How do you think you're weird in what ways? I just, I think that the way that I see things, I used to see as a bit of a problem. And now I think of it as like a, if I'm being honest, like a superpower. Like, like to me, I think that everything is, is connected and related. And so I make these sort of relations that have no like basis in touching each other. But I do it all the time. And I also think that in a way this.

maybe annoying to people, I do think that everyone is the same way we're made of the same stuff. I think that everyone is a bit the same in that if I had your life and your parents with your chemical makeup, I would just be you. I think I would just be you. So even when I meet someone who's terrible, I'm not saying that I forgive them being terrible and don't care. I'm just saying like there is a part of me that's like, what happened here? Because depending on what happened here, depends on if I can understand why you are this way. And if I can understand why you are this way, once again, doesn't mean I'm going to like you. Doesn't mean I'm going to condone what you do. It doesn't even mean that I'm going to be even more empathetic. But I think that it will mean that

I have a bit more maybe patience with the circumstance. And those two things may not seem bad or weird or like they would be annoying. But I think that they creep up in a little bit of every conversation and in times where it's like, I guess, quote unquote, not the time for it. You know what I mean? And so I found that in a lot of conversation, especially young, before I was able to articulate exactly the things I'm saying now, I would just do that. And I would be the off-putting one, if that makes sense. Why would people get frustrated with that?

I don't know. I mean, I think that's such an admirable quality. I think it can be, but I think it's the same aspect of a personality that you see an obnoxious people. If you think about it, like you meet an obnoxious person, sometimes none of what they're saying is wrong. They're just saying it at the worst possible time or they're saying it in a way that rubs people the wrong way. And I don't think I was necessarily obnoxious, but I definitely think I hadn't honed when to do this. Like, okay, a good example. I didn't drink in college, but as soon as I was old enough, I would go.

go to bars with my friends. And so I would be with them. They'd order a drink or something. And then I would be like, man, the markup on this is crazy. You guys realize if you just bought a bottle and drank it somewhere else, you'd get way more for your buck. And now everyone's standing there, holding their expensive drink just like, oh yeah, you have pointed out that we're going to be broke tomorrow. And I think that that stuff is like not, it's not endearing in the moment. Okay. Yeah. With you being Mr. Logic. I guess. I guess so, yeah.

That's a nice way to put it. I would say a downer, but yeah. I googled facts you'll be happy to hear about Alexandria, Louisiana. Oof. Just want to check some of these with you. Sure. Fact check. Oh, well, this is something you said, though.

New Orleans to Louisiana is like you had the most beautiful blue eye, but your whole face was fucked up. Yeah. What do you mean by that? I think that, like, there is a. a mystique, and obviously there's a lot of history around New Orleans, and there's a lot of history all throughout Louisiana. But I think that when you look at the systems in place in Louisiana and you look at education, you look at the rates at which people are getting sick, the rates at which people can afford health care, all the things around being there are not

necessarily great conditions, and especially when you put them up against national averages. And that could even be said for some parts of New Orleans as well, but the only thing about Louisiana that's being held up is New Orleans. That's the place where worldwide, whether you're in South Africa, you're in the UK, or you're in Nashville. Everyone wants to visit New Orleans at least once. And they want to hear the music. They want to eat the food. They want that authentic experience. They want to see the street performers.

So all of that stuff is like this rare gym. And so I look at New Orleans as one of these last few places. places in the states that lives up to, at least in my experience, I know I'm biased because I've been there so many times, but it at least lives up to the sort of legend that is told about it. There's like a festival every weekend, whether it's jazz, blues, whether it's art. Maybe, I'm sure if you talk to someone who grew up there and has lived there their entire life, they'll tell you all the ways that it's not the same. Sure, yeah, yeah.

But, I mean, what I tell you, man, when I went the last time, had some of the best food I had had, really since the last time I went. What did you have? I had like crawfish et tufei. I had like an alligator gumbo and everything. Like it was just things that like you could try to find the things that are like that creole southern, that jambola. You can try to find those things in other places. And every once in a while there will be places that are just incredible that make it exactly right.

Not only is it rare, along the way, you. You will poison yourself so many times trying to, like, capture that experience again. What's in alligator gumbo? So it'll be alligator meat and then the basic, like, rue, like the sort of stew of the gumbo, mixed in with some rice, maybe some Andouli sausage and some filet, like the type of gumbo seasoning that they use and everything. I didn't grow up with gumbo with gator in it. And so when I had it, it was an experience that was like very singular. Like I had not been able to taste anything like this before and I haven't had anything like it since.

But I did have a gumbo that supposedly had gator in it in New York. And I don't think that's what that meat was. Is it white meat? Is it like fish? It's kind of, yeah, it's like a white meat. Yeah. Everyone says it has like the consistency, like the, the, the, chew of chicken.

Yeah. And everything. But yeah, it was, it was incredible. So alligators are not protected in that part of the world, are they? Or? I mean, I think we're the ones that need protection. They're just so common that you can just stick them in a gumbo. As best as I know, you are only not allowed to, like, hunt or kill baby alligators.

But as far as, like, an alligator who's just, like, poking out of the water eyes up, I think that's fair game. Gumbo time. Yeah. I could be wrong, though. Maybe I had some illegal gumbo. Alexandria, your hometown, sits on the Red River right near the geographic center of Louisiana. It was once going to be considered the capital of the whole state, right?

Yes, it would make a lot of sense if it was because there's the Red River Bridge into Pineville, there's an airport, you know, there's a lot of opportunities. there and it just, yeah, they went with Van Ruge, I guess. What was it like growing up there? I mean, what kind of town is it? It doesn't feel like a city to me. It feels very much like a town, you know? And I think that when I was traveling, especially when I first started doing stand-up and was able to go other places, I saw how much of the U.S. that is,

how you have your neighborhoods by class, and sometimes how you have your segregated neighborhoods, but then also how even the places that supposedly have money all sort of have the same stores around them. And most of the personality, most of the interesting things to go see aren't actually in those neighborhoods. And so growing up in Alexandria, I was around a lot of that, whatever, like name brand stuff. We went to the mall. It was very regular, except for there were certain neighborhoods around my neighborhood growing up that, depending on where we were living at the time, were more dangerous or there would be more things happening that were... More edgy. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, like, you know, there were shootings not far from my house, really by house. Like, there was really only one or two places that I lived. growing up where I would say, oh, this is like fine. This is like a middle class place to live. And then the others, even if we weren't in dire straits, even if we weren't in the worst conditions, you would hear things going on at night and everything. You would hear things like, I remember there was, I was really little. And near my grandma's place, they would have, I think there were like two different nights I could hear it. And it was really upsetting. They would have these like dog fights, like bedding with the dogs and everything.

And it was something that had to be explained to me. And I just remember being really like, I didn't cry or anything, but just there are some things that are your first hint that things are not all right, you know? Arts and Culture. Rather than flashy nightlife, Alexandria has a quiet art scene, murals, community theater. and small galleries. Does that ring a bell? Yeah, it feels very generous.

It feels, based on where I grew up, murals is a very nice way to put it. Graffiti. Yeah, yeah. But there are, I mean, there are murals in the city and everything, but yeah, I don't know. Were you not out there creating street art? No, no, I feel like, for me,

I always looked at whether it was tags or it was murals as people who were good at drawing. And I was not. So I was like, I'll leave it to the expert. So what were you doing? What was your main focus of your leisure time? Good question. I mean, I would read a lot and I was into magic for a little bit, like doing like magic tricks and everything. How'd you get into that?

I think I got really into it when I was like eight, as far as watching it. I really wanted to practice it when I was around 14. So then that was like when I probably would have got the best I've been and had learned the most tricks and it memorized the most things and was able to switch decks and stuff like that. And then, yeah, at 22, I was like, I know I want to do like some sort of show. Maybe I could incorporate a few of these things.

Did you like David Blaine and people like that? I did. I like what I like about. Because Blaine loves the. the people freaking out. I mean... Yes, yes. And that was my thing with it where the same way sometimes you see a comedian do a joke and

you're like, that's an incredible joke. That's very funny. That joke would not come off the same way from me. And that's how I felt about David Blaine's magic. I was like, I'm glad he's doing it. And I'm glad that he is willing to like be the person that people are like freaked out by or whatever. Be the creepy dead-eyed guy that people...

Yeah. People love. But as far as me, I'm just like, no, I don't think I'd be able to. Yes. Pull that off or would I want to, you know? No, that's a real commitment he's made to being a very certain type of person. Are you familiar with a clip where he appeared on British TV and he has an eye drawn on the palm of his hand? And he's doing this interview with quite a cheesy presenter on British breakfast television.

and they're trying to just have a chat for breakfast TV with David Blaine and he's not having it. He's doing the whole thing as if he's been heavily medicated and he's all like eyes at half-mast, you know, and the guy says, what have you got drawn on your hand there? And he sort of holds his hand up and he's kind of doing a weird stare at the camera and not really giving the guy any answers,

just kind of smiling in this strange, nomic fashion. and the presenters getting more and more wound up and bemused, like half amused, half just annoyed. Yeah. It was around the time when you hadn't really seen anyone doing that kind of thing before. You know what I mean? Like trolling people in that way. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I definitely think that you've kind of like hit the nail on the head. Like there are certain personalities that I think get big because in the moment, they're filling a void. Like we're still talking before influencers and before the sort of like cynical understanding of how you could become famous. And I think that he kind of filled this thing where he was off putting to the people you weren't supposed to be off putting to. But he was doing it like early internet and he was doing street magic around the same time

that kids were becoming infatuated with the idea of like, ranking strangers on the street. Yes, it was around forecast time. But for a camera. Like kids have always prank people on the street. That's like, that's just being a kid. I mean, like, we have a purpose and we're going to show people this later. And we are going to make this like basement of tapes.

Well, that's like Tom Green, I suppose. Do you know Tom Green? Yeah, yeah. And he was sort of doing that stuff, you know, home video enthusiasts. Yes, yes. That's kind of the world that I came from. Like we used, me and my comedy partner used to do a homemade TV show in the UK that was genuinely made by us with video cameras and stuff. But we always shied away from those pranks.

We did a few, but we were never really comfortable with it, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you just have to, you have to be really open with the idea of making and leaving a bad impression. Yeah. You know? In a way that polite society used to frown on, like we used to really not go for someone was just rude for attention. Yeah.

I mean, personally speaking, I still frown on that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just, I'm blown away that there's no limit. Yeah. Like, it's got to the point now where, you know, jackass and some of that stuff is one thing, because you can even in the moment kind of see the bit. like in the moment, if Johnny Knoxville goes to a yoga studio and he's got a fart noise maker in the back of his belt loop and he's doing yoga with everybody and they're playing the fart noises at random times and even Johnny doesn't know what's going to happen. It's like someone even in the yoga studio could be thinking, oh, this is like a funny thing. Like this is what I'm trying not to do every time I do yoga. I'm trying not to fart, right? I think it's a very different thing for a kid. to be like, I'm going to go to this yoga studio and throw anthrax on everybody.

And it's like, well, now you're just doing terrorism. Like, now this isn't even a prank anymore. Yeah. There's a guy I know, Gus Khan, who is a fan of this YouTube guy. I think there's lots of them who do just weird things. I think he's an American guy. And he goes up behind people in supermarkets and just makes a weird noise right in their ear. Mm-hmm.

kind of a slightly sexual noise and people generally fucking hate it, you know. Yeah, I can imagine. Either they're very angry because they think that maybe their sexuality is being impugned somehow if it's a guy, you know. Or sometimes if it's a gay guy, they think that they are being teased. I mean, there's just so many bad reactions that you can have to have. Sure, sure. To that kind of thing. Someone invading your space, making a weird noise.

Like some people, like my friend Gus, he finds it hilarious, but it makes me so uncomfortable to watch it. And the comments underneath, I think it's generally divided into, like, the younger you are, the funnier you find it, right? Sure, sure. I think it's also based on, like, how real people are to you. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm not even saying that none of these things can be funny.

I'm saying that when you watch it, do you feel like you're watching it happen to a person? Or do you feel like you're watching it happen to another character? And I think that really colors your experience of how you watch some of this stuff, you know? Yeah. It just seems strange to me that you'd be watching that on a platform that is all about real life, really. I mean, maybe that's bullshit. But that was my relationship with YouTube when it first started. was like this is where real people, ordinary people, outside of the media,

are able to express themselves and post things. So it is sort of by definition, like these are real people. Yeah. So it always seems weird. And, you know, some of these people in the video that I'm thinking of, Salim the Dream is the guy, you know, they get violent with him and they just, they come after him and he runs off. And there's a certain he includes those ones as well where he looks terrifying.

He looks kind of terrified. He's pretty good at staying very blank and not really giving a good reaction, which is half of the thing that freaks the people out because they go like, what's the deal with this guy? Is he on drugs? Is he mentally unwell? What's happening here?

But he includes the bits where he really gets his ass kicked as well. And he's just running away from these people. Anyway. When did you then get into the rhythm that you're now in currently of putting out material weekly, even more often than weekly sometimes? Yeah, sometimes. So in the, what, 2023, I think it was, my buddy Brian was like, why don't you really start putting this stuff out?

Like whenever I see you, your set is different. And I know you're not doing anything with it. You're just doing different stuff because you get bored with what you were doing or you feel like it's finished and so you move on to something else. And I was like, oh, yeah, I mean, he's not wrong. Like, ever since I was doing open mics in Chicago, I would really have, like, a different thing. And when I was a little kid and I was writing, because backing up even a little bit further, before I even had an interest in magic, I always really loved comedy.

Oh, really? So, yeah, so I would watch comedy specials on TV. Who are your favorites? A lot of the Comedy Central comics were, like, my first exposure. and then there were some of the Def Jam comics as well and the Comic View comics and stuff. So, you know, I was watching like Christopher Titus, Bill Burr, Wanda Sykes, Martin Lawrence, a little bit of Eddie Murphy, Eddie Griffin.

You know, I was just watching these people and I was just like, this is the coolest thing. But I still didn't realize it could be a job. I don't know why I categorized it the way in my head that I did. But in my mind, I was almost like, oh, because I had seen D.L. Hugh Gly, have a special, then have a show and then have a special. I almost kind of thought you had to be like a crossover actor slash comedian for them to let you get up there and do an hour of comedy.

Yeah. Or a kind of nuclear fireball like Eddie Murphy with such a massive personality. Yeah. I'm not saying you don't have a massive personality. No, no, but I hear you. I hear you. But your tone and your delivery is so distinct from so much else. And I'm struggling to think of comparable comics.

from back then. Like was there anyone occupying the same sort of space that you occupy now? I mean, hopefully not, not that I can think of. It'd be nice to be unique by discovery. That'd be cool.

I suppose the reason that perhaps most people wouldn't upload stuff they were doing on stage is that most comedians workshop things and they don't want them to be out there prematurely to the point where they ask people not to use their phones in their sets because they want to keep a lid on what they're honing for as long as possible until they feel it's ready to be seen by a wider audience.

But you're working almost the opposite way. There's nothing wrong with that model of doing comedy. I think that that way of doing comedy brings people a fantastic show, like a really special show. And I'm not saying that I won't revert to that one day of being like, oh, actually, you know, I'm really enjoying doing this hour. I think I'm just going to do this hour until I don't feel like doing this hour anymore. But I also find that there's something in a different way

special about making something that is just for the people you're performing for right now and no one else and then it's over. And I'm lucky that through uploading, it gets to live longer and gets to have other people enjoy it who weren't at the show. But at the core of it, I'm just trying to like share something specific and special.

with people. Do you have then bits that you can fall back on? Like at the moment you're on tour, right? Yes, yes. You've just done five sold out nights at the Beacon Theater in New York. That's 3,000 Sita. That is massive. So were each one of those five shows different or were there, is it modular? Are there bits that you can move around and fall back on and? Well, I guess you could call it modular in that there were definitely some jokes and stories that were only done at one show. But then there were things that crossed over into other shows and in a different order. I've had people come to two shows same night and be surprised that they were even slightly different. But I've also had people come to three different weekends and see that the weekend is different. At the end of the day, I'm still enjoying doing

the jokes that I like the most. Sometimes there's a joke that whether you feel like it's developed or not, you just have so much fun doing it that you're like, yeah, I just want to do this tonight. And so, yeah, sometimes I don't put those things out because I'm having too much fun doing them. And then when the time is right, when it goes with the set, I go ahead and let it go.

And I think that that sort of process keeps me open-minded about creation and it builds a rhythm and a cycle for, progress and it allows me my hope is that it allows me to get better faster right but then do you allow yourself to use a bit that you particularly like more than once or a few times or do you consciously think well i've done that and that's on youtube so i'm not going to do that anymore i don't really do things that i've put on youtube again if my feeling ever changes around that luckily i've put out enough things that it's not like they'll be like oh he's doing this one and again. But I find that repeating the stuff that I put on YouTube doesn't serve the new thing that

I'm trying to do. So sometimes the new thing that I'm trying to do is so much about another topic or a different mindset that I'm in that it would almost be shoehorning it in to repeat something from YouTube. I mean, in the last few days, you put out a bit post the killing of René good in Minneapolis. How do you even begin to approach talking about something like that in a comedic context, just days after it's happened?

Yeah, I mean, I think that the way you go about it or at least what I did was, you see what happened and then you are very honest and present with how you feel about it. And then I try to be honest about what every aspect of what it

looked like to me. And I went over it and over it and over it, several times before I ever did the show, trying to decide how much to talk about the shooting specifically versus do I take into account that people will have seen it by the time I'm doing the show and so I don't need to go into some detail. I can just speak about how we feel about it. And then I think that once again, everything being related, everything being connected, what is it with Renee Good and with ICE in Minnesota and with the sort of fear, the imbalance of how people are approached by law enforcement and what people do with their power? And I think that all those things, even if you don't live in Minnesota, even if you never go, even if you're never coming across a Border Patrol agent or an ICE agent in any country that you live, everyone has an association with someone abusing power.

where everyone has an association with narrative building. Everyone has an association with being an innocent bystander of a horrific tragic event, right? So in all of that universal emotion, you now have everything you need to create something that people can relate to. And so you do everything that you can to make the set that you are doing funny because funny is supposed to come first. And I think that sometimes when people see someone did a joke about this thing, I think most people who don't do comedy think to do any joke about any subject means you're making fun of. And that's not always what it is. You know, sometimes the only way to talk about depression, to talk about drug abuse, to talk about suicide, to talk about being in a dark place is to do jokes that relate you to the thing but are not making fun of someone who's suffering. And have you had times where you've stepped into hot water and you've had to go through a sustained period of people coming at you for something you've said, either on TV or in your live shows?

Not necessarily. I mean, I guess I'd be surprised if you had because of the way you talk, because of exactly what you just described, which is not really giving a speech that is supposed to be communicating how you think people should feel. instead you are just trying to shift the way they think one step sideways you know it's a very kind of humane way of tackling those subjects yeah even if it even if they don't change their mind even if they just understand how other people think right that's actually i think that does more for empathy than anything even if you could bully people for a time to have the right opinion quote unquote. You're never going to know who's genuine and who's pretending. You're just going to know what's the thing to say. Right. And so I think that trying to change people's minds or trying to

shame or bully people into thinking the way that I think would be, one, a misstep because I don't think that you're ever going to get genuine change that way. And then two, what if I'm wrong? Like, I'm not infallible. So what if I'm wrong about something? And then I try to bring a bunch of people with me. I'm not trying to convince me. of anything i'm trying to show you how other people see things you know you did that very effectively with your bit about the guy that shot the uh ceo the the oh luigi yeah the healthcare oh yeah guy um what's the name of the company um united health united health right they provide medical insurance in the u.s and you did well they don't so

So, yeah. So funny enough, actually, when I was at the Beacon, I got heckled because I was actually doing a joke about Luigi. And then this guy started heckling me. And he was like, he's a murderer. Right. He's a murderer. And I let the first one go. And then finally he yelled again, he's a murderer.

And I was like, what? And the guy screamed again. He's a murderer, you asshole. And I'm like, well, who did he murder? And then he's like, you know, he was a father, meaning Brian Johnson, right? Yeah. And I was like, oh, okay. Well, you know, United Health was using this like faulty AI that they knew wasn't operating correctly, but they still left it doing what it was doing so they could deny more claims.

And it's the practice of insurance companies to do their best to deny you your claim because that means they get the money for free. You know what I mean? Like this thing shouldn't even be legal the way that they operate. And so, you know, Brian Johnson, through his practices, definitely killed people. Maybe we don't want to look at it that way because when something is not present. And that's what I said to the guy. I was like, who did he kill? He was a father, you asshole.

I'm like, okay, all right, I'm an asshole. But you saw Luigi shoot him. And I never really try to engage with hecklers in that way or anything, but this felt like different. And I was like, you saw Luigi shoot him. But you didn't see when Brian Johnson was denying claims for cancer patients for people that needed heart surgery, that people, like, there are actual solutions out there. As bad as the American healthcare system is, there are actually solutions sometimes right in front of a person.

There's medicine that they need. There's care that they need that they could have access to. The care and the medicine have been invented. And then they go to their insurance company, and their insurance company is literally waiting for this person to die so they'll stop calling so they can keep the money. And so I told him, I was like, so maybe murder only matters to you when it's in person. And he didn't say anything after that. And I think he stayed for the show, which I thought was wild.

But to me, that's sort of at the heart of the matter. It's like, I could have spent 10 minutes just trashing this guy for interrupting the show. And like, you know, there's thousands of other people here, but you got in your feelings enough to try to interrupt the show and everything. But to me, this moment's better served by pointing out a thing. You came to the show. I mean, I'm surprised that you like me, especially since I did an hour on my. Luigi and you're here six months after that. Maybe he hadn't seen that because you know what?

I went into watching that clip, your hour on Luigi, maybe with some of the same feelings as your heckler, thinking that guy's a murderer. And you do say in the thing, you say very clearly, like, I'm not up for murders. I don't want people murdering each. Yeah, yeah. You don't want like a total lawless society and you don't want just random killings as a way of settling issues that ought to be settled in other ways, right? So we all agree on that.

But I think for some people, that story was so polarizing and so emotive because it did seem like a divide between people who were sort of advocating vigilante justice as a way of sorting out society's ills as opposed to something more to do with the process that were all signed up to for better or worse. And I always invoke my parents in conversations like these because they were certainly people who believed in law and order and believed in due process and, you know, like, as flawed as those systems are, they were like, well, this is better than the alternative. This is better than total anarchy, you know.

So the thing I was trying to get across and the thing I'm still trying to get across, even with that heckler, even with that interaction, is that I understand the people who, firmly and fully believe in law and order. I also find that throughout history and in every country, the people that believe the most in law and order are the people who are best served by the current law and order. And so I find that that is a false problem to put out there, that it's either exactly the way it is right now or it's total anarchy. When really, I'm actually trying to advocate that it should be a lesson and a stark warning to everybody that if you leave this thing intact, if you leave this version of law and order intact, that's actually what will lead to

anarchy, because it's actually serving so few people that people celebrate a murder that takes place in, like, public. That's not normal. And by any measurement of law and order that is actually serving the whole of society, no one would be able to do that. Do you know what I mean? If Brian Johnson was sitting alive but in jail right now for his business practices, no one would celebrate his murder.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And I don't even know if people are celebrating so much as openly not caring. And I think it's a reflection. They are openly not caring the way Brian Johnson openly didn't care about people. I think for a lot of people, they're like, we're just signed up to this system. Whether you like it or not, I appreciate a lot of people don't like it and are very vocal about when I say this system, I suppose. I'm not talking purely about the capitalist system, whatever it is.

But it's like, you know, whether you approve or disapprove, this is the way society in the Affluent West works. You can have a job as someone who runs a company that is superficially legal and superficially respectable. But actually, if you dig into what it does and the impact that it has on people's lives, it's pretty disgraceful. But, you know, shrug, that's the way society works. you know, that that guy still has more of a right to live his life than someone who's outside of the whole system and just decides that he's going to execute someone on the street. Not only do I agree with you, but I'm saying that I could see how me going about even telling some of the jokes the way that I told them might seem like I'm more in favor. I'm more saying like, guys, this is what happens before things go bad. And that has to be addressed.

And so I look at like some of what some of the responses to what's happening as let's say you were sitting with a family member and someone walked in, walked into your home and told you, said it out loud, stated their intention, your family member, I'm going to assault them. And then they start walking towards them. Are you going to say, hey, that's illegal? Are you going to say, hey, that's just not done? Maybe you call the police. You tell them to get out, whatever. But once they put their hands on your loved one, what do you do? Do you turn into a killer? I mean, do you to protect them? And I'm not saying that Luigi thought he was protecting anyone.

I'm not going to ascribe any intention to what he did. But I can tell you right now that the people who are supportive of what he did are those people who are down to the point where a hand is on the throats of their loved one and they don't know what else to do. So if someone walked in and let's say, this is just for the sake of argument, if someone walked in and just as they're putting their hands on the throat of your loved one and you aren't sure what to do because you're not a killer, someone runs in and hits them with a baseball bat, knocks them out, maybe kills them whatever, there is a sense of relief where it's like, all right, we got the bad guy. And it's something that we've actually been trained to do when it comes to like shootings with police, right? If a police officer shoots someone that was supposedly doing something illegal that was supposedly a danger to the public, we get to breathe some sort of sigh of release. Yes. Well, that is, that's the conventional narrative for most entertainment, isn't it? Yes, yes. It's like that is the cathartic release you want in a film. You support the cop who is not playing by the rules because he serves a greater justice and he doesn't want to dot the eyes and the eyes. cross the T's. And because the rules have handcuffed him. Yeah, yeah. And so we've been playing at this

thing for a really long time and it's coming to a head in a way that is very concerning. And that's the kind of thing. Like if I was to really have a conversation with that heckler and like, like sit and chat with him, I would ask him, I was like, okay, obviously you're not supposed to kill Brian Johnson. Everybody clear on what's supposed to happen and not supposed to kill Brian Johnson. What do we do? Yeah. And I don't say that as in what do we do because murder. is the only other option. I say, what do we do? Practically speaking.

Practically speaking. How do we move forward? And if you have no answer, then I think people might murder, you know? I think all of that comes across really well. It's a really fascinating thing that I hadn't seen. Again, I feel like I didn't get that perspective anywhere else, really, on that particular issue. It's really impressive and refreshing and sort of makes you feel a bit hopeful as well, I think, because I do think that people have to accommodate the possibility of finding some common ground

and trying to shift their perspectives on things and not feel so fearfully locked into one way of looking at the world or following people who have a very specific way of looking at the world. Yeah, I mean, it's like when you find out, how I know if you've ever had this? Have you ever found out you've been saying a word wrong your whole life? Oh, yes. And then you're like, oh, everyone I said it in front of. Oh, geez. Oh, no.

It's like, that's why it's hard to get people to have a cult. Because if you're in a cult, you told everybody. Yeah, yeah. You told everybody it's like, no, we just wear the robe because it's comfortable. And now everyone's like, you're at a cult. And you're like, no, I would have caught on if it was a cult. And then finally there's like a day where the leader's like, hey, everybody drink this. And you're like, oh, whoops.

Yeah. No, it's very uncomfortable to feel it's annoying as well. It's not just uncomfortable. It's just fucking annoying. Life's hard enough without having to do more bloody work on yourself. Yes, yes. And kind of unpick yourself and think like, oh, God, if I'm wrong about that, what else am I wrong about? Yeah, because it can all come crumbling down.

Yeah. I'm like, oh, every once in a while, you'll have somebody who changes their mind about one thing and they're like, well, maybe, maybe everything's a lie. And you're like, oh, wait, whoa, whoa, now we're jumping. Before we conclude then, I wanted to ask you about your impression of the UK. How many times have you been over to the UK? I know that you did the Soho Theatre in Walthamstow. Have you been across more than that? I've been one other time and I enjoy coming.

But I am trying to learn as fast as I can things that you would normally pick up if you just lived here. So like the differences in sensibilities between the boroughs and stuff between like north and south and east and everything. And I feel like I'm catching on to a little bit of it, but I don't have much of it. I mean, if you listen to Elon Musk, then the UK is just about to tear itself apart in a civil war. I mean, listen, I'm not saying it's perfect. And there are definitely tensions in the UK and all sorts of problems that are ongoing. And I also have to acknowledge that I live in a very, I live a nice, cozy privileged life in all sorts of ways. However, I do travel around a certain amount.

And I don't see the same UK that Elon Musk sees from out in the States. What I actually like about Elon is almost nothing. But one thing I really do like about him is that he reminds me that I don't need more money. Do you know what I mean? This is the richest man in the world and he is terrified of everything all the time. He's trying to make you scared of everything all the time. He might try to make you scared of every one. I don't know what drug he took or what happened in his life because he used to be like really trying hard to just be kind of funny.

Yeah. There was a time in like 2013 where he was just like posting memes and was kind of funny. Let this sink in. Yeah. And it's like he still post memes and I guess he still tries to be funny. But now it is all geared from a perspective where somehow he is the richest man in the world and still not safe. And that is like, okay, then I don't need to get to the finish line.

Do you know what I mean? You tell yourself that if you have a certain amount of money or whatever, that you'll be happy or happier or whatever. But then when the actual richest man in the world is in the White House twitching, twitching from like using drugs and just like kind of being off in space and everyone's complaining about him because he's so annoying and nobody likes him.

And all he does all day is just post memes about how the UK has fallen and how like the UK is basically Africa now. And like all of these like fear mongering, hate mongering posts, you're like, oh, okay, like money won't fix it. And that's kind of reassuring to know. There are, however, legitimate things to complain about in the UK. I googled what some of those are an aggregation of some of the most common complaints across TripAdvisor and places like that. Weather, number one. Yes. Nobody likes British weather.

Even though I think in its defense, it's quite nice except for these months that you're here, actually. If you had... December, January is hard. Yeah, if you had a stack of books to read, this would be perfect. Yeah. But around this time, January, February, maybe, and of course it's all changing now with the climate shifting so much, but it's fucking depressing. And it really gets to you. Just the lack of sunlight, the lack of vitamin D is hard.

And you really feel it. People complain that things in the UK are too small. Rooms, fridges, beds, cars, food portion. Food portion? That must be a distinctly like American complaint coming over here. I feel like every plate of food I've had since I've been here has been full. Customer service, fewer smile. less small talk, no one checking in on you every 90 seconds.

I mean, to me, those are all positives. Yes, because here's the thing. With customer service, if they can't help you, talking to me extra is not going to make me feel better. Yeah. You know. I mean, having said that, I do, the smilingness and superficial, at least, helpfulness of American customer service,

when I used to travel there in, I used to go with my dad. He was a travel writer and he would take us to the States in the 70s and early 80s. And that was the thing that stayed with me was, I love how friendly they are and they're so, you know, sunny and have a nice day. And it didn't seem insincere to me at all. It just seemed like they're so nice. I love them. And I do miss that sometimes in the UK.

But I think customer services may be getting a bit better over here. Humor, though. People complain about British humor. They say there's not enough reassurance that the person is joking. That sometimes... Oh, too dry. Too dry. Too sarcastic sometimes. Wow. Okay. Have you found that?

I haven't found that, but I could see how... I guess I could see how in conversation... In comedy, I haven't found that because I find British comedians funny. But I guess what I could relate to from what they're saying is if I don't know someone and they are joking with me, that's when I could be like, oh, I guess they just don't like me. Because we don't know each other and you're joking with me and it's very dry. I don't know this from you not liking me. Okay. Yeah, whereas I think usually it's a sign that people do like you in this country.

I think they feel comfortable and they feel comfortable. enough to be dry. Yes, yes. Rather than make it absolutely clear that they're joking, you know what I mean? Yes, yes. Accents, apparently a lot of people, especially Americans, expect a quote, British accent, which I would imagine is something close to my own accent, middle class, maybe upper middle class, RP, received pronunciation, or something a little bit more like, you know,

British people used to speak like on the BBC. Yeah, like there's a thing. I was even wondering about this with someone before, so I feel like I need to ask you now. What happened to everybody from like the 20s to present? Because the Americans also have this. Like Americans have that old baseball like, I'm next at bat. And it's like that thing is not how anybody talks like at all. And so is that a thing that happened here?

where you watch old British movies and they're talking in a way that no one talks now? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a comedian called Harry Enfield, who is brilliant, and he had a character who he called Mr. Chalmley Warner, and he would make these fake clips of old British TV shows, black and white shows, and he would do this voice. Was that kind of, yes, the way that people spoke in those days and British television and delivering everything in a very staccato, strange way.

Yeah. No, I don't think anyone, I mean, there are still posh people who talk like that, and you occasionally hear them on the train having loud phone conversations in a very, like, happy way, totally unselfconscious way that always amazes me. And, you know, we have politicians who are like that. There's a guy called Jacob Rees-Mogg, who sounds like that, really, a little bit. But it did change, yeah. It used to be the specific stated policy of,

the BBC that people should talk that way. And if you didn't, if that wasn't your natural accent, then you should learn how to do the accent. That's so funny. But then they stopped. Then people began to embrace the idea that actually it would be better to have more diversity of accents and influences. I mean, they must have done that in the US too, where where they were like, no, this is how you talk as a radio presenter. But I suppose even in the early TV, they must have been like, You have to give it more ha at the top. Yeah. Because that's crazy.

Because, you know, you see even some of these old World War II reels and something. I mean, maybe more so World War I than World War II. But, yeah, you would see them come on fighting for the boys at home. That's right, yeah. And you're like, okay, but did anybody say that? Like, when he stepped away from the mic was like, anyone want to go get lunch? Like, or did he talk normal? Yeah.

Can't help noticing dear that we haven't had sex for two weeks. Yeah, yeah, it's like, what if it never went away? Like that guy's like the guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I hope you are treated very well by all of us here in the UK. Oh, fingers crossed. I bid you a warm welcome and wish you the very best of luck for your shows. And I look forward to seeing you live in person,

but I will continue to watch and enjoy your YouTube videos. Oh, thank you. Hey, thank you so much. It's really nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. I really appreciate you. I really appreciate you doing this, especially after getting off a plane. That's just...

Oh, yeah. Have a good rest. And thanks a lot, man. Thank you. Continue. Welcome back. That was Josh Johnson. I really enjoyed meeting Josh and talking to him, incredibly sharp, unusual kind of guy.

I really recommend checking out some of his videos on YouTube. I've posted links in the description to several stand-up sets, including the one. one that he recorded in the wake of René Good's killing and the one in which he talked about the murder of Brian Thompson. But I'm very grateful to Josh for making the time to talk to me, especially as he just got off that flight. Blimey.

Okay, Adam Buxton Podcast News. Myself and my new podcast production helpers, Claire Broughton and Diggery Wait, are trying to figure out a way to do a Patreon bonus area, if that's what you call it, for this podcast. It's not something I've ever done before, but I'd like to give it a try,

not least because I've never really had regular contact with you guys, with the podcasts, people who listen to the podcast, other than Christmas time when we take anecdotes and jokes and things like that for the podcast with Joe. But this would be an opportunity to do a semi-regular Q&A or AMA where you guys could send in any questions you wanted to ask and we'd pick a few and I would talk about them and answer them

and that would end up being a regular Patreon bonus but to get the ball rolling we'd do it as part of the run for the main podcast so you wouldn't need to be signed up to Patreon to hear it. there's an email address in the description of today's podcast for anybody who would like to send in a question they'd like to ask, and in a few weeks' time, we'll record an episode of me answering some of those questions. Thereafter, we would do it exclusively for our Patreon subscribers, and there would also be other bonus materials, which we haven't nailed down exactly yes, but we're just kind of gauging the level of interest at this point.

So if you are interested, first of all, in doing the AMA and then possibly in being a Patreon member, drop us a line to the email address in the description of today's podcast. I look forward to hearing from you. So how have you been podcasts? I hope you're doing all right, wherever you are. It was really so great to meet some of you after the band shows recently. Earlier this year, when I was feeling a bit overwhelmed and despondent and I was moping about a little bit at home, my wife said to me, I think it's going to be good for you

to get out of the house and do some shows with the band and meet the podcats. And she was right, as she so often is. The shows have been really fun. I've loved playing with the band and if I say so myself, I think we sound pretty good on the whole. My guitar playing, which was at beginner level,

seems to have got even worse, but luckily, Joe, Mount, Gabriel Stebbing and Michael Lovett from the band are really excellent players. So, apart from singing, I tend to be more of a Roxy Music era, Eno, firing off samples, playing the odd bit of random synth,

for some of the shows we've also been getting members of the audience up on stage to play Eno synth on a little critter and guitary handheld synth box that I bought years ago after seeing Gaz Coombs using one. There's a video of me and Gaz playing I believe in Father Christmas by Greg Lake for a show I did years ago called Adam Buxton's Shed of Christmas and in it I am using the little handheld synth that we now have on tour. And we got some very good emergentinos up on stage. Shout out to Sarah Efan and Luce from our recent shows. I think I'm getting a bit more relaxed on stage,

maybe even a little bit more tuneful as a singer. The first night of the tour was at the Liverpool Tong Auditorium, T-U-N-G, which is part of the Yoko Ono Lennon Center beautiful venue. Very nice and modern and fancy. We had a few technical issues that night and we were quite nervous,

so it was a little raggedy. Also, there were a few famous faces in the audience that night. I won't say who they were to preserve their anonymity, but that always tends to ratchet up the nerves a little bit as well. Next morning, I got up early,

and I went for a walk in Liverpool to get myself some breakfast and found myself in the sort of main shopping drag and the touristy part of town around Whitechapel. And I came across the statue of Brian Epstein, the Beatles manager, outside where the North End music store, NEMS, once stood where Brian Epstein worked and where members of the Beatles used to shop for records. And the statue is of 27-year-old Mr. Epsom.

striding off from the record store in November, 1961, when he went for the first time to see the Beatles playing at the Cavern Club in Matthew Street just around the corner. And I've been to Liverpool a couple of times, but I've never really done the tourist thing, so I pointed myself in the same direction as the statue. And a few minutes later, there I was in Matthew Street, which is lined with Beatles-related bars and imagery.

And I was standing in front of another statue, this time of, Oh, Laura, Laura Silla Black in a blinder date. She was also managed by Brian Epstein, of course. And there she is in a mini dress in brass form, with her arms outstretched, looking a bit Jesusy, it has to be said, where the entrance to the Cavern Club would have been when the Beatles were playing there

back in the early 60s. And I was there for a little while in the early morning before the other tourists started arriving, enjoying that weird feeling of bathing in the memories held by a place where momentous things once happened. And I was enjoying standing exactly where the Beatles would have come and gone around 65 years earlier, separated only by time. And in the scale of things, such a microscopic sliver of time.

and imagine all the other people who have stood there in that spot a laura laura people who are also fascinated by the Beatles and that story and anyway i felt i was communing with them like john and paul on an acid trip staring into each other's eyes and saying i know man i know it was all quite trippy especially because while i've been traveling around I've been listening to the audiobook of John and Paul, a love story and songs by Ian Leslie. Brilliantly read by Chris Addison,

and a lot of people had been recommending that book to me for a while. If you don't know it, it examines the personal and professional relationship between John Lennon and Paul McCartney via a selection of songs that were pivotal for various reasons in the course of their 23-year friendship from 19, 1757 when they met to 1980 when John Lennon was murdered. And instead of just hitting all the usual plot points in the history of the Beatles, Ian Leslie charts the inner workings of a friendship that started when Paul was 15 and John was 16.

Paul's mother had died of cancer the year before they met. John's mother died in an accident the year after they met. And over the next 13 years, that's all it was. 13. It's nothing. They wrote Beatles songs together, which partly provided them with a way to express some of their feelings about their various losses, as well as their feelings for each other. Friendship and love, but also the insecurity and the competitive tensions and resentments that are so often part of a close friendship, especially if it's also a creative partnership. Yes, I know what you're thinking.

It's very similar to the Adam and Joe Six Music Songwaters. story, isn't it? Adam McCartney writes sausages, encourages Joe Lennon to write some original material to, Joe ups the ante with European supermarket, and from there, the limits of garage band creativity are pushed further back week on week, with Joe initially dominating the competition, causing Adam to suffer severe creative anxiety, which forces him to step up and write some of the defining songs of his career. Mind of a pirate. festival time and party pompom. Meanwhile, Joe Lennon starts taking too much LSD,

gets addicted to heroin, switches his emotional allegiances to a Japanese artist and goes off the rails before cleaning up and reasserting his musical dominance with bangers like Antiques Roadshow and La La Lumley, only to lose interest in the project when Hollywood comes calling and he starts to believe he's Jesus. I'm just saying don't be surprised

if Ian Leslie's next project is the Adam and Joe songwere. story. But yeah, John and Paul, a love story, hard recommend. All right, that's it for this week. Get those questions in for the Q&A episode. Book those tickets for the band and for Bowie Bug and for a live podcast with Mo and Rizwan. And don't forget, I'm at the Charleston Festival in East Sussex this Thursday the 14th talking to Miranda Sawyer about the 90s DIY TV. doing some reminiscing, playing a few clips, having a great time. Hope you can come to that. We're on at 9pm.

Thank you very much indeed to Claire Broughton and Diggery Waite for their production support and conversation editing. Thanks very much to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for his production support. Thank you to everyone at Acast. Huleas is with my sponsors, much appreciated. Thanks to Helen Green, I saw her the other night in Bath. She came along to one of the band shows. it was lovely to see her. She does the artwork for this podcast, of course. But thanks most of all to you

for coming back, listening right to the end. I appreciate it. Creepy hug. Come here. Hey, how's it going? Good to see you. Beautiful birds. Until next time, we share the same hour old space. Please do go carefully, and if it makes any difference at all, I don't know. I love you. Bye!