The Adam Friedland Show (Cumtown) - FKA TWIGS Talks Stans, Eusexua, Seduction

Episode Date: February 4, 2026

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That's TempoMeals.com slash tafs for 60% off your first box. TempoMeals.com slash TAFS. Rules and restrictions may apply. Do you know what the show Seinfeld is? Yeah. Okay, all right. Have you seen a movie before? The movie Seinfeld?

A movie. A movie? Yeah. In my life. I don't know. Because I was these thoughts were popping in my head while I was doing research. I was like she may have not seen a movie before. Yeah I've seen a movie before.

Okay, all right. We got that out of the way. This guy. What you mean? I'm just, I'm just... Hello and welcome back to the Adam Freedland Show, Adam here. First off, I'm doing Helium Comedy Club in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. In about two weeks, February 19th to the 21st, there are some tickets left.

Low ticket warning, I believe. The following month I'll be doing Helium Comedy Club in Portland, Morgan, noticing a trend. March 27th to the 29th. It's a great club, very fun room. Finally, the Netflix is a joke festival, Regent Theater, Los Angeles, California, May 9th. They've added a second show.

The first one, their only single tickets left. They said it was a tremendous, they booked a second show for me. Also, I'd like to thank our members for supporting us here on YouTube.com. Please, guys, support the show. If you like the show, it's five bucks a month. You get early access to all of our episodes. to all of our episodes. And if you join at the second or third tiers,

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Check it out. Great crap. My guest this week is Grammy Award-winning artist FCA Twigs. congratulations the Twigs on the Grammy she got what was that Sunday night huge big one in front of the show listen guys you've seen the intros before they're the most popular part of the whole show they are people

watch the intro turn off the fucking interview which really hurts my feelings but it's that Caleb magic it's that Thomas magic it's the energy in this room it's the CRT television listen it sucks this week has sucked on a sincere note

it's just crappy what's going on right now and not that that's an excuse for us not doing our work but it's just I don't know nothing we didn't feel good we're all in a crappy mood and um you know we're seeing people getting shot in the head on TV and stuff and it's fucked up

there was a silver lining is that correct at the 11th hour we got an assist from probably the most unlikely of sources and he had a brilliant idea to tackle the subject tastefully. So without further ado, check this out. Let's break down this idea from the top. So there's a new group that we're starting.

Just explain it to me again. They can't source fire. You should try and defy our E. You should try and... Well, that's a phageo... Immigrant relations Expert executive, yeah, okay. So fire or the opposite of ICE.

Yeah. And then how does it relate to Game of Thrones? And you're recruiting, you're recruiting for fire. Yeah. And you're going to, and the way you do the qualifications for ice, you're going to make the qualifications for fire tougher and make it tougher by just like another minute or something stupid.

Oh, so you have to run a mile and a half in 13 minutes instead of 14. Yeah, because fire is tougher than ice. That's funny, that's funny. Oh, and it's like Game of Thrones, that's why, because it's fire and ice. That's the whole point. And Westeros is what?

Washington, D.C. I think this is good. And the north, and the north is, Minneapolis. Minneapolis, which is freezing. It's a freezing not thunder. Yeah, but the wall is Mexico. No, no, no, but the wall is Mexico.

Yeah, the wall is Mexico. And they're letting in fire people into the country. Yeah. And the fire walkers are good guys. And your motto is we are fire. That's funny. Because that's a pun on that. Okay, I think I'm going to try and do this, something like this.

You there? I mean, it kind of makes sense in a way. I think it's a good bit. It takes a piss out of ice. Yeah, it's like a satire. Yeah. It's speaking truth of power. Anyway, Dad, I got to get back to work.

I love you, though. Okay, so I'm going to send you that computer. Yeah. Okay, good. Mazel tov. All right. Fuck. All right.

I say we just do that. Ladies and gentlemen, this next guest was named the Godlike genius of 2022. NME's Godlike Genius Award of 2022. And they haven't named one since. Twigs, everyone. She's got cake. Thank you for coming. Hi, I see.

Thank you for coming. Hi, thank you for having me. And she brought a whole squad of just some of the, you know, some of the luminaries of the fashion industry. We have Anna Wintour, give it up for her, guys. The devil wears Prada. You try to make me wear some, like a poodle jacket. You wanted to wear it. I didn't want to wear it.

I had to prize it off you. I just wasn't sure if I was dressed cool enough, because you're like a very, you're a fashion. Do you consider yourself a fashion icon? No. Are there any days where you just want to dress like shit? Um, I have this thing called the Blues.

So I have outfits which are all blue. Oh, if you're sad? No, if I just don't want to get dressed. Oh, like Picasso's blues, period. Well, just all the clothes are blue and it's the same blue so I can put on the blues and not think about it and it kind of looks fine. What does it look like? It's like jean jacket, jean shirt, jean pants? No, it's kind of...

Canadian tuxedo. No, it's kind of very worn in, patched-up Japanese leisureware. Oh, yeah. Of course. yeah of course yeah that I know I know exactly with it my dog is here you asked for an animal I didn't I feel like this is the first time I see has been on the show hi I've told this story we could cut it but I've told the story to other guests about this dog but I got her from the street yeah she was a homeless teen mom they used her to breed fighting dogs and then she made a Jewish man and he changed her

Sweetheart. Yeah, she's really sweet. I mean, when I got her, she was, like, depressed because they took her puppies away too young, and her nipples were, like, distended from breastfeeding. Yeah. And she was, like, just, she's, like, come out of Vietnam. But now she's, like, a, she's a very happy girl. She's, like, 10, no.

She's changed my life. You have two dogs? I have two dogs, yeah. But, like, little, little Ewak kind of things. Yeah, yeah, that crazy. Do you, like, to take them around, like, legally blonde, like, kind of situation? They're very wiggily. I mean.

Before 6 o'clock they're very riggedy and then after 6 o'clock they're like floppy teddy bears You're from the the west of England by what else? The middle the the Midwest the midwest the middle of England to the west like Indiana kind of England My yeah my family's from Birmingham are they Villa Villa Astin Villa no I feel like you don't you've never heard of sports I grew up with a lot of sports in my house I'm kind of I think Because of that, I just, I'm not really that into it. Sports, like football kind of scored my childhood,

because it was always on, especially at the weekend. It would just be. It's kind of nice, though. Yeah, it's nice. I mean, I think it's, yeah, it's just, was always on in the background of my life. But I'm the type of person, like when I get home, I'll put the TV on for the background noise.

Was your town, like a Tory town? Was it like Tory country, England? I think so. Well, I mean, it's kind of weird where I grew up, because it's quite mixed, I would say. Like working class and posh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that where I'm from there's not a lot in the middle.

What side were you on? It's like a commuters town. I was very much working class, but moonlighting as middle class. Because when I, like, first I heard of you, you seemed very like high brow, you know what I mean? And then when I found out you're kind of from small town, it's like kind of a, was very, like, I didn't expect it, right? Yeah, well my parents are from like,

working class Birmingham. Yeah. I have like my biological dad who is from working class Birmingham of Jamaican descent, my stepdad who raised me like actively till I was 11. He's like second generation from Barbados. Like very working class, first black family in a working class area in Birmingham and my mom's from the black country in Birmingham. And again like very very, very just humble, chill beginnings. Yeah. Was there like a notion of class that stuck with you from a young age? Because I know you went to like a boarding school, like a good school and you were like on scholarship or whatever it's called in England. Yeah. So when I was 11, my mom just got it into

her head that I was going to go to a private school, a Catholic school in Cheltenham. And she basically like coached me to get in and I did a lot of like tests throughout my summer holidays to get into this school that had good education. My primary school had said that I wasn't intelligent enough to go to the grammar school. And so my mom was just like, hell no. And so she basically like coached me through the summer holidays to go to a private school. Was the grammar school the public school? No, well, like I think grammar school is kind of like a better school, but I don't think you have to pay for it. But you, your school has to agree that you're clever enough to take the test to go to like a free, like aspirational better school, whatever that means. But my primary school wouldn't put me forward even for the test.

So then my mom found a school that was like they had a scholarship and she put me forward for the scholarship. But the academic test was like a really big part of getting that scholarship. So you were smart? You seem like you're very, like when you talk about your work, I'm like this is a very intelligent, like way smarter than me person. No. I'm going to struggle to ask questions about. I mean it. No, but like were you, you strike me as like, were you like the girl that like didn't talk and was drawing horses and stuff?

A little bit. Yeah, yeah. Were you like, did kids consider you to be like a weirdo or like a freakazoid? I think growing up I had two very distinct personalities, all versions of me and the one side was, yeah, like a bit of a weirdo and a weirdo and I think growing up I had two very distinct personalities or versions of me and the one side was, yeah, like a bit of a weirdo and I. I was very much into ballet and opera and so annoying how old were you into opera honestly like eight nine you didn't like the spice girls I loved the spice girls oh okay yeah I was a big spice girls who exposed you to that like that kind of stuff though well when I was nine I got a singing teacher a lady called

Dorothy who was the lead singer in Carmen in the Covent Garden Opera house and so she started teaching me to sing in Latin and Italian opera and that was my first training but it was kind of if I went to school with you I'd be like shut up but I didn't tell I didn't tell anybody this you know I think you're embarrassed of it it's not that I'm embarrassed like listen being first of all working class second of all for a lot of my life from a single parent family third of all growing up in an area where a lot of it is middle class up middle class keeping up with the Joneses so already I've stood out because my mom was very free-spirited very beautiful like very daring you know my mom when she was younger was like

really, really iconic. And so already there are a lot of things that made me stand out. Yeah. Being biracial as well, there just weren't a lot of people of color where I was from. So I think I've always kept a lot of these things secret. And even now, I, you know, it's something that I even battle with now a lot. People not understanding that side of me because it's funny,

I can kind of swing from doing a performance with Valentino and like doing something really highbrow and incredible. to then really being so into my roots and where I'm come and supporting my own community and feeling really grounded and expressing that part of myself, which is like deeply rooted in culture and also black culture as well because I'm mixed race. And these are two equally important sides of me.

So it's funny because even in one of my singles, I just released Cheap Hotel, like it's just kind of super vibe and the videos really like low-key and sexy and filled with girls that I like would want to hang out with and and beautiful women that like look different and express themselves like looking really cool and then you know I can go from that to then doing cellophane and I think it's definitely polarizing but these two sides of me like they're both a part of me right like a lot of your

work has there is a class element element to it I feel like you worked as a hostess at a strip club and you were in burlesque and then you've kind of created characters around those experiences. How old were you when you moved to London? I was like 16 and 17 when I first started spending a lot of time in London and I think just before my 18th birthday when I made the full jump. Yeah. Were you like one of those like, I just got to get out of this town? You were one of those, right?

No one understands me here. Not even. Did you see London as like, how did you view London from like a small town? Was it like a dream? I remember lying on my mum's bed. We had this tiny flat. And I remember lying on my mom's bed and listening to college dropout. Change of my life.

Yeah, and I remember like listening to that. We were the same age, right? I think so, 38. Yeah, yeah, we were 16. Yeah, so I listened to that. And I had a boyfriend at the time who had a car and we drove up to London and saw Kanye West at the time. And Jay-Z perform and he performed Jesus Walks in London. I remember we drove all the way up to London and then drove back that night.

And it just changed my life, like, just hearing Jesus walks, and everybody was just in this venue and stamping. And it just, like, was the first time I experienced, like, the aspiration of life through art and music, like bringing me to tears as a, you know, mid-to-older teenager. And then I went back home, and nothing was the same. I was like, I need to make it to a big city. Like, something can happen for me, but it's not going to happen for me here.

We're the same. We're the same guy. Seriously. I mean, honestly, I wanted to move to New York so bad. I thought it was nighttime 24 hours a day. Everyone was the strokes. And I'm like, I'm going to move there. Or I thought it was Seinfeld where like an ugly Jewish guy could get like a really hot girl. And it turns out that that was kind of true.

Yeah, in New York for sure. I use it. Yeah, what is cheating. That's just, I think it's like a lot more girls are up than they're out. men and ratio. There's a lot of gay guys. Oh, is that what it is? I just thought there was more women to men. Yeah, yeah. No, there's like a lot of gay guys, so the straight

straight guys to straight women ratio is I feel, I mean, it's incredible. It is a place where Costanza could go out with like a Victoria's Secret model. I thought it was just because it was on TV. Do you know what the show Seinfeld is? Yeah. Okay, all right. Have you seen movie before? The movie Seinfeld? A movie. A movie? Yeah.

In my life. I don't know. because I was these thoughts were popping in my head while I was doing research I was like she may have not seen a movie before yeah I've seen a movie before okay all right we got that out of the way this guy what you mean I'm just no because like your interests are so it seems to me like when you get interested in something you go all the way in right like like when you got into like pole dancing you went to like the best pole dancing teacher in the world that's a thing that someone I didn't I didn't go to the best pole dancing teacher.

You went to the, the bullshed? No, I just go to people that care. No, like, I mean for me, like, I go to people that care. So it was important for me when I first started to learn pole dancing that I trained with another woman of color, that I trained with somebody that had their own studio, that had a passion for the movement. Well, my opinion, she's the best of the world, okay? That's just one man's about.

Let's go there. There are a lot of amazing pole dancers, but I think for me, I just wanted to go to a place where I could feel safe. Whenever I pick a teacher, it's because they have something, like they have a want to get to the root of the cause and a respect for the community as well around the... What kind of music did your parents show you when you're a kid? Oh my gosh, so much. Did you like it?

I really did. At times I felt very embarrassed by it, but now I'm so grateful because there was a lot of like acid jazz, jazz fusion, you know, non-verbal jazz, like people singing scat overbush, beats or um you know like the scatman song like um you know you babh bat bat tharaboo bapara too b bapara to be bapara to i'm the scat man i was thinking more about like tanya maria oh she's a scatter yeah well she's one of her or a few oh Tina maria oh never mind did you ever like uh having like uh caribbean roots and like uh caribbean roots and like being mixed race,

did you ever get into like, kind of like dub or reggae or like kind of second wave of ska? Did you like the specials? I did, but much later. I love the specials. That was more in my 20s. For me and more in my teens,

it was like discovering Bashman and Dance Hall. Because I grew up in a place called Cheltenham, which is very white, but then literally like 20 minutes away, there's a place called Gloucester, which is not only got like an amazing black community, but also

a Jamaican community. Sound clashing? You went to like dub and reggae? No. There was a club there called the Jamaican club and it was when dance hall and bashment was huge and I remember going to that when I was 16 and like there were loads of rasters there but it was like people that

have like just come from Jamaica and have created a community there and that's when I really discovered myself and I had like a huge breakthrough actually because I had a best friend at the time who was white and blonde and really pretty and super popular and I would really want her to come with me to the Jamaican club

and I remember her saying to me that she didn't want to come and I was like... How old were you guys? Oh, yeah. But I'd always done stuff with her and all of my white friends in Cheltenham, you know, like whatever they wanted to do. It partied. Yeah, like it'd go, I don't know, do stuff that my white friends wanted to go to a skate park or...

Celebrate Easter. No, I mean, they like that. What do you mean? I'm sorry. No, I mean like talk about like getting a Tony and Guy haircut or get GHDs. Well, exactly. What is that? I don't understand. I don't know what these white people are up to. Nor do I. Yeah, yeah. No, like...

Is that what they do, Ght's in Tony and Guy? Like, get like GHG and go to Tony and Guy and get layers in their hair and talk about Rachel from friends. Like, I don't know, but I was a teenager and I... Great haircut. No, like, I was like a teenager and I was just like, where do I find myself in this? I remember naively, like I'd started going to this Jamaican club in Gloucester, and I remember trying to get my white friends from my private Catholic school to go to this club with me, because I was like, I'm always going to your staff.

I was like, can you come with? And I remember one time I was just like, why don't you want to come with me? I have no one to go with. And the answer was like, there was just too many black people there. In that moment, I realized, um... You're different. I was different. Yeah, I realized I was different.

And I also tried to explain my friend, I was like, I am always with white people in Cheltenham. So how you feel when you go to Jamaican club, that's kind of how I feel every single day. But it was kind of just a bit, you know, like this. So I was like, do you know what? I need to go and go to London and just like expand my knowledge of the world and meet more people and be in a more multicultural environment. Because I was like, otherwise I'm just going to die a slow death here. Like I'm just going to get crushed. Yeah, and also get exposed to your cultural roots.

Exactly. I imagine. Yeah, exactly, yeah. You were in a band Delirium? Deleuron Tremens. Oh, nice. Like the beer? Yeah.

Yeah. Can I hear it? Do you have any... No, come on, you have a little bit. This is basically pre-internet. What was it, like, Riot Girl? It was, I was, it wasn't my band. It was kind of like my friend's band,

and I would be, like, the additional backing singer in the band. You were, like, the Bez? I don't know the best The guy had Happy Mondays with the With the tambourine No, I was like the backing singer So I'd do like additional Like screaming I guess

Really? Oh so you didn't play any instruments No, no I would Scream like to double his screaming Oh was a guy was making you scream Yeah Was it guy girl band or you were the only girl No I was the only girl But I was like an addition

I wasn't like the main one You were a weird butt pot That's my new decision about you. I was... She was cool. I could tell. By the way she's talking to me right now, she was popular in high school. I could tell.

Why are you mad at me right now? Because I don't want these false narratives, but I was like the runt of the popular girls group. That's where I'd placed myself. But then outside, like if I did dancing or when I'd come to London, like that was super chill. I'd say I wasn't popular or not popular. I'd say that when I came to London and was doing dancing, singing, hanging out, I'd say that like, I'd say that like, I'd say that, I'd say that, I'd say that, I'd come to London or not popular. like I was just like in the mix like having a good time. What about so you became, you moved to London and became a dancer.

Yes. And you were like in videos and stuff of you were coveted from what I understand. Yeah, I was, I had a good career as a backing dance. I had a solid, I had a career I'm proud of as a backing dancer. You danced for Shearin? I danced for at Shearin. Is you chill as a guy? Sweet.

When you were in dance though, did you like, you wanted to be at the front of the dancers? Do you add an ambition there? It's not that I was at the front. It was just that like, It's not that I wanted to be at the front, it's that like I was very expressive, but I couldn't, like, fit into the group. Because you were getting twice as much money. When? I heard that as in my research.

For what? You were the best dancer. I wasn't getting twice as much money. No, I wasn't. I would be proud of that. No, me too, if that was the case. When you're a dancer, you get, like, a flat rate, usually. Are the girls cunts to each other?

Is there a black swan kind of thing happening? I never experienced that. Because you were above all that drama. No, I just made good friends. Some of my dance friends from when I was a backing dance, I still know now. I actually hooked one of them up with my piano teacher. They just had a baby.

Really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, one of my oldest dance friends. I did a piano lesson in lockdown, and I met this guy, and I was like, you have exactly the same personality, like, humor as my old backing dancer friend. And then they, I put them in a group text and I was like, you guys should know each other.

The worst that can happen is that you'll be friends and they just had a baby. How's it feel? Well, my friend sent me a message. It's a little bit your baby too. I don't need more responsibilities, but. No, you don't need the responsibility, but it's your baby, but you don't have to do anything. It's the best case scenario. Yeah, I guess so.

But she sent me a message and she was like, hi, like I'm new in the world and I feel like you've got something to do with me being here. I just wanted to me. I know. I made me want to cry. I know, yeah. It was really cute. It was so beautiful. Yeah, it was really sweet.

You should take responsibility for the baby. I don't need to take, like, I think. You've got to be the man who showed up. Yeah, I think it's just nice. So you were also, like, were you supporting yourself at the time? You were a young person living in the big city? Yeah, well, I had a lot of jobs. So from when I left home, I literally would have, like, four jobs.

I was crazy. Like, I was just, like, run around. I was a dancer. I was a youth worker. I worked inside. and I worked in a bar and I would take any job. Like I literally remember having this rucksack and it had almost like the different costumes for my different jobs. And any shift that came up I would like run around, run around.

And then when I got to, I can't remember actually, maybe it was like 22, 23 or 24. I can't remember what age, early 20s. I said my stepdad who I'd reconnected with, that I was doing all this stuff and I really wanted to make music. And I said, can I quit two of my job? for six months I said I'll keep to I'll quit you yeah and will you help me with my rent in London and he was like yeah because I didn't go to university and I was like very independent from when I was a teenager I always make my own money so he was like I'll

support you with your rent for six months so you can quit two of the jobs and then with that time you can go in the studio and then I said if in six months I don't get signed or anything then I'll just go and get a normal job and he's supported me for six months and almost like at the end of that time I then got a record deal. Transitioning to like music like in the way I've read you describe your process like it sounds like you're almost like a movie director like an autore right like there's a visual aspect of a song there's a dance aspect of a song there's the actual song you know there's like there's multiple aspects of

the aesthetic have you started a song on a vision like seeing a visual of something or do you start with the chords like That was a decent question. Yeah, it was really good question. I think I don't, I think I start with the music, but if the song speaks to me visually, then I want to finish it. So if I get a vision of what the dance could be or how it would be live or a visual or an image that's a storytelling piece to go with the song, then they're usually, well, they're always the ones that make the record or end up coming out. It's almost like you're making a theatre piece sometimes, to some extent, right? Yeah, I'd say 360, but I think that's kind of the, that's sort of the thing I'm coming up against now,

because obviously I've been doing it for a while, I just am trying to figure out what type of artist I am. And I think I'm realizing that the music industry, although I'm very much a part of it, and music is the core of everything I do, I just don't feel. that it's able to facilitate everything really that I want to do so I'm kind of in not like a transitional phase out of it at all because I always want to make music and power albums

and that will always be the number one thing at the basis of who I am but I think I don't think that the way that it works right now is conducive for me making my best work. I kind of like picked up on that also because like you I guess a total 2014, is that right? Like when you kind of had a breakthrough, is that right?

Yeah. So that's like a decade in an industry that seems as if it's changed a lot. Yeah. What's happened is like in 2014 you broke through, like Twitter was new basically. Yeah. There was it, was Stan culture a thing at that point? I mean probably, but I don't think as an artist you were fully aware of it existed in letters that you might come across if somebody happened to give it to you or you recognize the same people at shows that, you know, gave that energy. Has it become kind of a necessity of an industry at this point?

Like to have a, you know, there's a distance between artists and the consumer, and then the internet has blurred that. So like, I guess like a Swifty is like kind of an aspect of Taylor Swift LLC, you know? Like, it's become sort of an amorphous blob. And it feels like that is like accelerated maybe in the last 10 years. Is that your experience? It's an unbelievable experience to be a part of. Have your guys acted embarrassing ever?

Have they gotten pissed at other people? What are they called? Twiglets. Twiglets is cute. I think on the whole, people that listen to my music are quite sensitive and artistic and creative, and I would like to think that they are sort of equally invested in their own creative endeavors and their own lives as they are in my music, which hopefully creates some safety and a healthy relationship.

I think I've definitely experienced since U-Sexua has come out, a different side of fandom and what that could feel like. For me, as an artist, it's my job to create something and to create it for myself and for other people eventually, but to not really care about what people think. But now, as an artist, we're just expected to market ourselves so much. And for me, that's one thing I really struggle with, because the truth is, like, nobody knows my true personality,

because I feel like my personality is constantly at gunpoint with social media. That's just not really who I am, and I've never really been able to find a way of portraying who I am. Because truly who I am is not on doing that. Like truly who I am is just in a studio practicing something and getting better at something and feeling happy about that and me monitoring my own incremental advancements in a craft. And I can't do that if I have to put it on the internet. So all that's left is for me to try and put my personality on the internet and try and be like cutesy boo-boo and try and be relatable and for me personally I've been on a five-year long journey. I think it was really probably like after Magdalene where this word like relatable started to come up like with publicists, you know, I had this like publicist a few years ago. She was great. She was northern and she was like, do you know what twigs? You're so funny. You just we just need to warm you up a little bit. You know, you're so funny.

If people could just see how funny you were. And I was like, okay, I was like, yeah, I can be funny. You know, but it's like this thing at like gunpoint. So annoying. And it's just not who I am and I've seen other people really overcome it. I've seen other artists, other contemporaries of mine who initially found this thing really awkward and spoke about it. And now are absolutely crushing it and they found their niche.

But with me, I just can't seem to find that because I don't want to purpose. put the things I'm practicing at online. I just don't want to. It's for me and I want to get better at it in the choir and I want to deliver something when it's a fully rounded thought. And so to be completely honest with you, like it's kind of a bit of a nightmare

to be making work that I really care about. And then there's this whole other side which is like, for me it's like McDonald's. And it just destroys all of the mystery. Like it just takes everything, everything precious and everything sacred. way and I look at like other artists and I think wow they're so good at it that's so good at making something feel casual like putting like a phone up and

and just doing something funny and I don't know how many drafts of that are in but there's someone looking at that and literally going insane do you understand what the other side of it I I want to counter that by saying that I found that very deliberate decision to be admirable because A you you you don't, you create a distinction between your own life and between your career, right? And, and I think that, like, it just seems like you think of your work in a different way where it's, like, thought out, and it requires effort in a way that it doesn't feel like a lot of artists have to grapple with, right?

No, I think a lot of artists now are, like, making incredible work and really thinking about it. I don't want to put myself on a pedestal like that. The difference is, that's very sweet. But I think that it's the ability to be able to connect with your fans and do this cutesy-boo-boo, like, effortless thing that I'm just not good at. Like, I'm the type of person. I just want to disappear. I just want to put out something and then not think about it and not have to promote it. And the thing that I find is, is you can't quantify culture.

You can't quantify the data around culture. You can't quantify the amount of people that are inspired by your work who create work based off your work, how when you're. you make something it changes the cultural DNA even if 10 people see a piece of work that's incredible it might change the cultural DNA of the way that people see I don't know queer people black people political ideas women you know like you can't put stats behind that and so to be able to to say oh this is what success looks like because it's Spotify listeners or awards or or likes on Instagram, you know, or likes on TikTok,

to be able to quantify the success of an artist by these things. To me, it's just not, like, it's not valid, to be honest with you. It's a mature response to a ridiculous thing, because if you think about the, like, I've been told by my people, listen, I'm also one of the biggest, whatever, pop guy in America, I don't know if you've heard, but, but like, yeah, like, post-picture. of yourself like hanging out and I'm like who the fuck wants to see that but what

you're doing is you're like some guys look at his phone and he feels like there's some unhealthy parisocial kind of relationship that he has with me who's a complete stranger so like I did a podcast for a long time and it felt like it was a kind of a friendship simulator for a lot of people and they'll come up to you and they'll feel they'll make a joke at you and you'll be like what the fuck he's talking about they'll walk away they'll be like idiot I'm fucking stupid I'm a stupid you But like in reality like doing this show where I'm like talking to different people and stuff It does feel like I I can more easily create that distinction where I'm like this is the work that I'm doing

And then in my normal life like no one respects me I'm not actually one of the I mean I love communicating with my fans and I love the back and forth of my fans I hate my fans I mean they's whatever The twiglets and the people that have enjoyed enjoyed my music through you sexual I have directly affected, created, and encouraged me to make Afterglow. Afterglow is 100% a conversation between me and the people that liked you sexual. Really? 100%.

What do they say to you? It's like a feeling. It's like seeing the way that people move on stage to the songs. It's about seeing the parts of the songs that they love. It's about seeing the looks on their faces when I talk about certain things in my lyrics and me thinking, that felt good. Like I want to, but if I did something just 10% in that song, I want to take the 10% of that song. and blow it up so it's 100% of another song.

Because that's the bit that's connected with people. Making someone dance, supposed to feel incredible. It's the best feeling in the world. But that's what I'm saying, like that type of interaction with my fans and my audience is the best feeling in the world. The part that I personally struggle with is shoving myself, like Talia, down people's throats. Do you think that you would have made more money or like something if you, like, were like, you know, and my... It's not about money, it's about a career of longevity. Like, it's not, it's not, like, you could make millions of pounds one year,

and then no one will speak about you the next year. Like, for me, I just, I'm really looking forward to getting old. For me, like, people like Martha Graham or Pina Bausch or Laurie Anderson, PJ Harvey, like people that have been able to... I wouldn't call them old, they're lovely. Well, Martha Graham has passed on. I'm sorry? No, I'm a...

I'm a bad... I'm a terrible. I'm just an obnoxion. No one likes me. They do. Don't say that by yourself. Words of spells. It's true. I mean, I had one guy, Zach the intern, he's not even here right now. He just left me alone on this. He's the one person that makes me feel safe.

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that I really love. And that's a type of fan interaction that spurs me to make another version of that song or to explore that feeling further the same way that I was saying when I performed you sexual alive it encouraged me to make afterglow I was very inspired by the reaction to make afterglow and I was also very inspired on afterglow to produce so much more myself and play so many more instruments myself and and because you sexual for me was such a well-rounded piece of work that I was so proud of that I created in aftergo I wanted to I don't know, like deconstruct everything that I'd learned, like deconstruct the beats, play more instruments, use my voice in a different way, subvert the clarity of you sexua into a hazy, gauzy, muffled, kind of wavy after-party of Afterglow. But that wouldn't have happened if the fans hadn't have given me permission and, like, authority also to do.

It was really a collaboration. You gave them joy, right? Yeah, and then it was a conversation. And also, I think it sounds like you do know what kind of artists you are. No, no, I do, but it's the gold post keep on changing of what you have to do to be an artist. You don't have to post your breakfast. Just make, go make tracks, dude. 100%.

My point is, every time you do an album, the goalposts of what you have to do change. So, for example, this era, videoed podcasts, really important. This era, doing TikToks with other influences. is really important. When I first started... It's terrible for the world. When I first started, you would do like a fader interview and a pitchfork interview on a phoner.

When I first started making music, you would go to your record label, you'd sit there for two days, you'd do phoners with pitchwalk, The Guardian, Fader, a couple of others. And that will kind of be it. There's no music press kind of anymore.

Is that what you're saying? There is, but I think the thing... No one is. It's messy. The thing that's kind of bigger is... is displaying is like being likable and being relatable and for me that's equally as important as the music and honestly you oh that's so sweet

you're not no I mean I think you're like a serious I think going like you know I never like studied your process or your career and I kind of want to go back to it like but like you it seems like you have a there's something in your head that you're seeing right is it difficult like to seed to delegate, if like, let's say, like, if you have a collaborator that doesn't see the thing that you're seeing? I mean, I have an interesting way of working with collaborators

that are, like, really talented, but can't see it, is I just want them to do them, and then I'll kind of edit it later. Yeah, yeah. So I just want people to, like, go the farthest they can possibly go within their vision, and then I like to take it and sort of edit it down for how it fits my vision. You just want people to have fun in the studio? Yeah, 100%.

Yeah. Is it really fun in the studio that makes fun? It's really fun. I should start a little bit. You should start yeah. I got a couple yeah but it's not your kind of music it's like more like acoustic singer songwriter kind of that's cute I like that too it's really serious actually it's not I wouldn't say cute okay I mean it's very constant no I'm just have you heard of Bob Dylan before yeah nice you've ever met Bob Dylan? can I go through your phone at the context what kind of yeah who you got in there well like what I just want to see you have Drake in there Probably an old number

Like what you He's my favorite guy He's my favorite guy He's the best guy No you don't have to do I can't imagine I It would have been quite funny honestly

It would have been funny Yeah There's nothing to hide Is future the best guy He's very professional in his studio He's a genius He's very professional yeah Yeah yeah

He really like He really like delivers on what he says He's gonna do Do you think he'd do a feature For the Adam Free Lunch What's wrong with me? Maybe I can ask him.

Really? Mm-hmm. Do you think he liked me? I feel like we're kind of a very similar guy. Except I don't do infidelity. I think you just need to, like, if you ask a question, let people finish it, and so that... I'm just excited.

No, I know it's really cute. It's just hard to concentrate. It's annoying, yeah. You're not annoying, it's endearing. There's an excitement about me. Yeah, it's like a puppy. It's cute. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, IQ-wise, especially. I think you're smart. Yeah, yeah. Like an adult dog? No, like, I don't know your brain just moves quickly. I'll let you finish about future. Tell me more about future. What do you want to tell you?

I could, apparently you have something else? Are we fighting? All right. When you entered the industry, were there, like, other, like, more established artists that kind of took you under their wing? Not really. You didn't have OGs? No.

Is it kind of a lone wolf game? Yeah, it's a lone wolf game. You don't have a squad of other musicians, like not production people, but like other, like artists? Not really. I've always been quite alone. I'm really trying to think, so I don't want to exclude anyone's... Elton John never hit you up? It was like, I love seeing you do your thing.

No, I don't think... Well, actually, do you know what I do, but kind of through someone else? So my personal trainer is... married to Jazzy B from Soul to Soul. And I'm not like really close with Jazzy B. It's not like we hang out, but through Eiffois, I've always had a lot of comfort just finding out things about the music industry that I didn't necessarily know. So I'll be on the running machine.

I'll just be talking about something and she'll give me an example about like Jazzy's career. And then I can sort of... So you gossip with your traitor? It's not gossip. It's more just kind of her looking out for me. Like she calls me like one of the youngest. Who are your goats? Like who, have you, have you met a goat before? Prince.

Did you ever like, like, completely, like, brick in front of a goat? Did you ever, like, fuck it? It's so, I imagine it would be so nerve-wracking. Janet, maybe. Have you met her? Yeah. And you did well? I think I complimented her too much, and then I made her shy. Really? Yeah, well, she's very gracious, like, her personality's very gentle and gracious, and I was just like, I love you so much, you're amazing, you've changed my whole life, I wouldn't be here, and I think it was just a lot.

but I meant it so that's okay. Her bro changed my life. Yeah. He's the best of all time. Mm-hmm. Can you, is it amazing we shared a planet with Michael? Yeah. I miss him so much.

Where were you when you found out Michael passed away? I remember where I was when Alia passed away. Where were you? I was in Pineapple Dance Studios in the clothes shop. Is that your life, you dance every day? Mm-hmm. I try to. You maintain a practice every day?

I mean, not every day because obviously I'm working so much, but I always try and move my body. Yeah. Same. Yeah, go to work, do a celebrity interview, major pop star. Try to figure out if she's mad at me or not. I'm not mad.

You're pissed at me. I'm literally not. So tell me about you sex, what got you interested in singing about sex? I'm sorry. That was a bad question. Who wrote this? You sexual isn't about sex.

It's an 11. pillar, kind of like wellness. Usexia is a feeling that I discovered that I want to be in more and I wanted to share that feeling with other people. Has it caught on? Do you feel like people are using Usexua? I think that the idea that we can be our best selves has caught on. I feel that in my shows. I feel like there's an idea that you can

kind of overcome everything in your life and be in a feeling, feeling of beautiful nothingness, acceptance of yourself, presence in the moment, no ego, no one, just kind of pure human experience. I think that that idea has caught on, yeah. I did an immature sex thing at the beginning, but what's interesting to me is like from your early jobs as like working in burlesque and as a hostess at a strip club, in seeing you perform and like there's kind of a seductive aspect, like you kind of like are as seductress of an audience. Really? There's kind of a relationship of like a woman on stage.

Or even doing pole dancing or something. I feel like pole dancing for me is like reclaiming experiences that I went through as a young woman and empowering myself to be in charge of my sensuality on stage. And I say sensuality instead of sexuality because, you know, as a young girl, like we go through so many horrific things finding our womanhood. Yeah. What am I doing? Nothing.

And so for me, starting to pole dance at a time when I'd had like a very big operation, I had fibroids, and so I had to go through a lot of hospital appointments and doctors and operations to fix my fibroids. And they're basically like benign tumours in the uterus. Yeah, so it's like very invasive. And it hit me at a time in my late 20s where I was very in charge of my sexuality. And I had just had a huge surge in my career. And I was dating someone very famous and it was very much like who's that girl energy. And I was about to almost like step into my grace and step into my light and step into my power as a star.

And I had to completely step back and choose myself. And choosing myself at that point was about breaking down my sexuality and finding strength in it and a power in it, which I don't think I had found before in my 20s because I don't think society encourages women to, find their power and their sexuality because it's deemed as something that's controversial or dangerous or dirty or you know all of these things so yeah it forced me to to take a step back and so then I started martial arts with a sword Wushu and I started and I started pole dancing as a way for me to connect with my body so for me when I pole dance it's not really for anyone else

you're also a dancer too it's a different kind of dancing right it's very different because it's in the air and it takes like a lot of it takes like a lot of internal strength and a lot of slow strength and it's not it's big powerful moves but you have to be very present because otherwise you'll fall off the pole and hurt yourself so it's like this beautiful dance between the mind safety and your body you're you're from the Midlands right you're from like a you're you know you're from a working class kind of a background but you're um your work seems very high brow, you know?

Do you worry that it's, uh, it could potentially make you inaccessible kind of to like, uh, you know. But I think this is what I mean. Is that, is that a calculator? This might not like, it just might not hit straight away. So say for example, you know, like Magdalene was a beautiful baroque operatic, real wild, real instrumental expression of like womanhood and peasant. and I'm so proud of that project. And when it first came out, you know, although it was very critically acclaimed, like the masses didn't understand at all.

Yeah. And now, five years later, you know, that feels so much more plausible that an artist can sing opera on a pop song or create something. What's her name is doing? Yeah, exactly, Rosalia. I mean, it's so much more plausible that that can be a pop song, you know? Or it's so much... So you created it. No.

Innovator. No, no, no, no. I don't think that at all. No, I don't think that at all. I just think that sometimes, like, I make the suggestion very early, and it allows culture to kind of breathe and make something so beautiful from that, like, naive starting point, you know? And I think that in my career I've been lucky enough to be a part of or start a conversation early. So, I don't know.

I'm trying to think of other examples, like, even including... You mean, like, you're making challenging work because you want to elevate the... I think I'm not... I'm not trying to... do anything I think that I am totally okay with making work and it like ceding into culture and it taking its sweet time because I'm so blessed to have a career now I mean I'm 28 in a month or two and I've been doing this since I was probably like 22 or 23 and I'm so blessed to still be here and I'm so blessed to still be making

music and what a blessing to be almost 40 and nominated for my first Grammy that's centered around music or to have you know to be number one go for you section to go to like sorry number three in the UK charts or to win incredible awards at this point in my career and I think it's just because I've taken my time and I think it's because my roots um go like deep and wide and that takes time yeah what I see in maybe this is a stretch is that coming from like a working class background what's clear is like you're very you work hard yeah you know you had four jobs before you went into music you've released consistently for over a decade on the probably a two-year album cycle like

consistent amount of work like do you ever not work do you chill like you don't chill not really I mean when I was very young my stepdad sat me down and he was like because of the way you look like you're gonna have to like work very hard because I wanted to be a ballet dancer which for me as oh yes I see yeah stop interrupting what I taught you that's okay it's my fault is bad example she's so cute ballet dancer ballet dancer there weren't really many um ballet dancers that were like black or brown or of color um and so he said to me that if I wanted to do it I had to work ten times harder than

everybody else and and and I still work ethic into you yeah yeah I have to work ten times harder or any I think like brown or black artist has to work ten times harder yeah because we just can't get away with being average we have to be amazing we have to sing really well we have to look incredible we have to dance really well we have to be polite all the time we have to be on our P's and Q's 24 seven because we're just not given the grace that other people that look differently are, you know, and you do one thing wrong, and it's like, wrong, knew it, you know, it's like this energy, but I knew it, 100%, you know, knew she was a wrong in.

So I think that I've always lived my life a bit by that, but I'm really not complaining. It's, I think I just get on with it. Do you think that the music sucks now? I see, chill the fuck out. No. She's so cute. She's the best. You know what song she likes the best?

Tell me. I don't know. What is it? She likes smelling pee so much. It's her favorite thing. Hi, sweetie. Honestly, do you like bands? Yeah.

Really? Yeah, for sure. Which one? Like cocteau twins. Yeah. Chardoté is a band. You're in front of the one. Five minutes left.

I know, I know. I got a text. Do you have Adele's number? Oh, no. She's incredible. She's amazing. Yeah. She doesn't have to show her breakfast sandwich to everyone on Instagram.

She's in a different... You so are you, bro. Come on. Don't feel pressure to feed your... to make your fans insane and then they go to war with Indonesia or something or whatever the hell is going on on the internet these days. I don't feel pressure. Although maybe now that I realize we command an army,

we can do anything with these people. The twig-o-litz. Twiglitz. I thought that was a good point. It is a good point. Honestly, it says applause break here under. Have you ever dated a guy that's ugly? Sure.

Really? Yeah. Poor and ugly? Sure. What's your favorite song ever? My favorite song? Ever. I don't really know.

I couldn't say that. Come on, we've only got really one question. left. That was it. What's your favorite one? Can we have another last question? Okay. Did Brexit have an effect on your career? Was it harder to get like French instruments?

Okay, another question. Okay. Do you fuck with Bob Dylan? Have you seen movies? What the hell even is sex? That wasn't good? Okay. Making work about sex and error where people have less sex? Do you, does it, do less people? Say that again?

So people have less sex, right? So if you're, if there are themes in your music about sex, do you, is it business wise? They're like, oh, you know what I mean? No, another question. Come on, please. It's really down to the wire now. You're a Godlike Genius Award.

Does that, not that one? Not that one. You live in fear that someone else. we'll get it will you have to go back to be regular what have you ever wanted to dress like crap got that one out of the way um come on now we're now we're going over uh oh is there a difference between sex why are you asking lots of questions about sex because usexua i don't know that sounds like the word sex it's not about sex it just has those letters in it oh that's so how how would I get that out of that confusing huh okay here's a good one okay I got a good one

okay um when you finish something right like here's my experience making anything right get a good idea you get really excited right and then you try to do it you're like I I suck right and then you fight through that middle stage yeah and you put somebody together but if you look at you have to start the next thing right you cannot think about it because it'll drive you nuts yes and if you look back on something you've made previously like you're like I would change this this and this this like it have you ever what is perfect to you oh right yeah that's a good question high five is that a good question oh B said oh like I like

there is he did this do this do this yeah like sniffing I don't know that was disgusting one more okay I think we did enough what is perfection like have you finished this song about like this is this is a this is a this is a I'm gonna have to sit on the floor. I'm just so exhausted. I don't know. My dog's here. I'm so exhausted.

I just have a bad personality. No, you don't at all. Did you want to go in front of the dancers? Did your music suck at first? How long did it take you to make something you thought didn't suck? When did you start dressing crazy? That's a good question.

Are these all actual questions? Yeah. Ryan Jones was born of your tone. It's okay. We don't have to ask any more questions. Just end it here. You want to just chill? We can hang out.

What do you just, what kind of music is your parents show you? Were you silent girl that drew horses? For the less dancer strip club hosts, when you first get hired? Backup dancers at Shear and Chill. It's okay. We don't have to ask another. Was there a black swan type drama? You got paid twice as much?

Is that fax? You have the ID cover and fader. We talked about that. You have ambition. Did you want to be famous? Was it difficult? I'm just going to read you all the questions. If you hear one good one.

Oh, I got a question. Since you've gotten famous, has anyone offered you drugs? Twigs, everyone! I see, what are you doing? You're R? I see. I see. I see.