The Adam Friedland Show (Cumtown) - JON FAVREAU Talks Obama, Bin Laden, ICE

Episode Date: January 22, 2026

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that was his that was the moment where where he got love from everyone oh with the bin laden operation you were in the situation no i was not right into that what a loser loser no what a loser were you outside like trying to listen in no because i didn't i didn't know what happened until i didn't know what happened to like got the draft remarks of what he was going to say they didn't tell from ben oh you were a fucking loser loser well i didn't do any of the phone i was i was at the point i was at the point Foreign Policy National Security speechwriter guy. That sucks.

Yeah. Can you imagine how sick it was? Hillary Clinton saying, this is my plan. I'm calling all the shots here. Shut up, Obama. Hello, and welcome back to the Adam Friedland show. It's Adam Friedland, guys.

First off, going back on the road this weekend, they added a sixth show, Seattle, Washington. It's at what's it called Emerald City Comedy Club. Thursday night, there's one extra show. Everything else is sold out. Also, folks, I'll be in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, next month at Helium Comedy Club get tickets while you still can they're gonna sell out quick and in May I'll be in Los Angeles California for the Netflix is a joke fest at the region theater pre-sail begins tomorrow or today if you're watching on the general feed right tomorrow and noon

tomorrow today at noon coat pre-sale general I wouldn't with this be today today say the date maybe the 21st uh pre-sale begins at the 21st of tomorrow, the 21st of January, the month right now at noon. So that was probably earlier today. And the code is Adam. Pacific time. Pacific time, noon Pacific time, 3 p.m.

The code is Adam Pacific Time. The code is Adam. The code is Adam. It's noon Pacific time. And it was already today at noon Pacific time. Also, I'd like to thank our members here on YouTube.com. You guys support the show. If you'd like to support us,

you can select join at the top of your page. And if you join it at the second or third tiers, you can get your name in the credits of this fine program. There's also a link in the description of the video below. And there's also a link to a Patreon if you prefer to use Patreon. Finally, there's merch available atamphreeland.com. Guys, I'm just, I'm not only all about money, okay? My guest this week is American political podcaster and speechwriter John Fabro.

Favro is known, of course, as the host of the political podcast, Pod Save America. I never missed an episode. and he was previously employed as the senior speechwriter for Barack Obama, the Obama administration, the White House. What hell have we done with our lives, huh? Funnily enough, this is not the first time our paths have crossed. What are you going to say?

No, come on. What? Read it. Read it. Funnily enough, this is not the first time our paths have crossed in 2013, an 18-year-old Adam Friedland dropped off a packet of speeches at the front desk of 1,600 Pennsylvania Avenue, the reception.

i was getting my start uh... writing speeches for the president of the united states uh... seem like a pretty good first job now of course i was not hired but i'd like to share a snippet from one of my from what of the speeches that i had it over that day uh... to imagine what life may be like uh... had today's guest taken

a chance on me uh... hello i'm president hello uh... hello uh... let me uh... hello i'm president baroc obama and i'm here to talk to you you today about a seriously bad problem that's destroying the core of this nation and eating away of what makes us great. America is suffering from an epidemic, an epidemic of girls who are cheating on good boyfriends. Good guys who like movies and books more than go to

the club. Guys who want to stay in and be romantic instead of wearing revealing clothing. Instead of wearing revealing clothing. Guys who think makeup is the same as lying, and prefer a natural look. Guys who hate condoms because the feeling of them is weird. These are good men, honest men who got good grades and know about music, and girls need to stop cheating on them immediately. This is a presidential order. Thanks.

And can I just say being the president is the best job I've ever had. Please enjoy my interview with John Favre, everyone. Give it up for everyone. That was one of the best ones. Ladies and gentlemen, host of Ponce of America, former head speechwriter for the Obama White House, John Favreau, everyone.

God damn it, guys. Joji, you can't pull, focus, and clap? Hey, pretty good. How's it? You have the same name as that guy? Yeah. That's gotta suck. You know what? Are you boys with him? It's been, yeah, I'm not boys with him, but I know.

You gotta know him. I had been in the white house. for two years and one of our staff, one of my colleagues came up to me, was like, hey, I noticed at the end of Iron Man 2, like, did you work on that movie? And I was like, did I work on that movie? I'm like, you have been with me every day, every hour for the last of two years. You think I had time to work on Iron Man 2? I'm like, no, that wasn't me. It's the other John Fabra. You're making Obama look bad. Well, it wasn't him. I'm not saying it was Barack Obama. Of course He was not Barack Obama. He knew who I was.

But why would he hire? That person shouldn't be a lot of drive. They were. Why would they? You know, well, actually, I had to change my name because there was a guy in show business. Yeah. Oh. Already with my name.

Now you're the most famous. Yeah. There couldn't be a second Malcolm X, you know. I first noticed it when he was in Rudy. No, Malcolm X was in Rudy. You know, he was in Red Hat. John Favro was in Rudy. Oh, John Favro.

And I remember seeing the first. the credits and I was like as a kid yeah yeah and you're like what the fuck is going that guy what no but I mean you were the white house and you're still number two you think or you're number one I mean deep down he's got a lot of great stuff yeah but big stuff if you run big days it wasn't just he was like an actor now he's like a big director if you run for president you could be the number one Favro you think if you win president that's what I'd have to do yeah that's what I have to do Trudeau was the prime minister and he was this number two Justin in Canada how but What's editing is that?

That's right. Yeah, Bieber, he's still, Bieber's bigger still. Yeah. And now he's with Katie Perry, so it's all. Trudeau? Yeah. What? I miss everything.

He is? That's what I've seen. Five, uh, yeah, do you ever feel like a plastic bag? Do you remember where you were the first time you heard that? Yeah, my friend actually, he went to college with a guy named Austin Powers. That's tough. How brutal is that? That's really tough.

Can you imagine the first? movie comes out he's like okay it's six months of this yeah baby yeah stuff he goes to the bank and people are like do I make you horny his life has been out that's for the rest of his life there's a second one he's like oh there's a sequel he's like well sequels are always bad he's like this is the end of this nightmare his name is Borat can you imagine being named Austin Powers why oh my god it would drive me insane yeah if you're Yeah, my name is Shrek.

Doesn't J.D. Vance has a stage name? Isn't J.D. Vance the stage name? I mean, yeah, is the stage name. Right. Well, he's changed his name. Three times. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

I don't even know what the original name. You can't have a president change of the name three times. Who knows anymore? Or was he a wife guy? Was he like, I'm taking her name? No, it was not that. No, he wasn't doing that. He's definitely not a wife guy.

Yeah, yeah, because we couldn't vote for that either. Yeah. I feel like if I read Hillbilly Elegie, I would know what the name was, but that's only a book that I pretended to have read. What was this last name? Knievel? You pretended to read Hillbilly Elegie? I pretended.

It was like, you buy it. At the bar? I meant to read it. To get chicks? To get chicks? Yeah, yeah. It looks like you're in politics. I'm like, everyone's talking about this book.

I should probably read this book. Yeah. And you're like, read the first chapter and then you lose time. It was every lib parent. They were like, actually. This is why we lost. And now this guy. Now we're going to figure it out.

Yeah. And we did. Peter. too. Very slim, very smart. Yeah, okay, J.D. Vance, come on the show, but you can never be the president if you change. Go back to your original name.

Just David Hitler. We'll cut that. He's a friend. Okay. So wait, I've been studying you. I know everything now. You had hot parents. I still do.

They're still very much a lot. They still look good? Yeah. They're still hot. They're still looking good. Hot parent kid is a thing. Hop-haring? Is it? Yeah, yeah. They stayed together?

Yeah. Okay, then that's good. They are- They were like too hot to be married. No, they're just hot enough to be together. Yeah, yeah. And they live out in California with me now. Your dad's, your dad's kind of... Big guy.

Big guy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Did it make you want to be stronger than him? No, not really. Do you think you could beat your dad up now? No, for sure. Still, your dad could beat you up?

He's six, too. You're making a bomb-a-like-back. You're making a bomb a like that. You can't. I don't want to beat up my dad. So he had a man be, Pambi, son? Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Yeah. But he was never disappointed, which was nice. Yeah, but deep down. Deep down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My dad, my dad knows how to fix a car. Oh, yeah. I think mine does.

We don't. I don't know how to fix a car. We know how to write speeches, phenomenal speech. Yeah. So he's like, my boy's a speech boy? My boys, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's like, he wanted you to play football, and you're like, I got to write.

Never even pushed me for that. Did you grow up watching game tape of speeches? No. No. No. I didn't grow up in a like, my parents like to talk politics. They weren't, I wouldn't say they were political, but they would like to talk politics. And I remember, I do remember, like, watching the 92 presidential debates with my dad.

That was like one of my earliest political memories. Yeah. I remember my parents being so excited because he was a boomer. Yeah. And the song was Fleetwood Mac. Yeah, that was a big. They were like, it's one of us. And I remember, actually, I remember the 88 campaign

because Mike Dukakis, is the Democratic nominee, and my mother's Greek, and her main name is Demarcus, and he was from Loll, and my mother's from, like, the town, like, Woburn, which is right near Loll in Massachusetts. And so, like, the fact that he was running for president was, like, the biggest deal ever. Really? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, why would the Democrats run a Greek? From Massachusetts. They're going to run Stobb next? What do they do? Wait, yeah, it's so funny that a picture of a helmet. I mean, he really did look like a bitch-ass in that picture. Yeah, but that's short too. That's the kind of thing that can sway an election.

It feels like nowadays, like, we forgot Trump got shot two days later. Yeah. And then Joe Biden dropped out two days later. Yeah. Those are the good days. Those are crazy summer. Yeah. It sucks that Biden did, like, his first funny thing before he dropped out.

Which was. He's like, when he's like, he was Zelensky. And he was like, ladies and gentlemen, President Putin. It was like he was like doing the music guest on SNL. Ladies and gentlemen, President Putin. I remember that press conference. That was a rough one. Who was forcing him to do that?

The wife? No, him. No, it was the wife. I think she was encouraging. Jill was like, go out there. I think they were like, you do you. Like, we're going to be with you no matter what you want to do. And it was like you, like, you want, you want some people when you're president of the United States around you who will tell you difficult things that you don't want to hear.

I thought you were going to say laugh at all your jokes. Did Obama ever tell just a shit joke when you're, you fake laughed? You definitely did. Yeah, yeah. It's the president. Yeah, I would definitely. I am an easy laugh anyway, but yeah, I'm sure I fake laughed at some of his jokes. And you're like, come on, Mr. President.

That's not good. That's sexist. You can't say that about women. I shouldn't have shown you entourage. Do you remember he's your boss? He said that his favorite show was entourage. Did he say that? Yeah, it's so sick.

So sick. That's so us? It was so us. That is? That's so us, dude. I mean, you were 28 years old in the West Wing of the White House. You watched the show before? It did.

I was in college. Yeah, so I watched it. So what's your, you think you're Sam? Yeah. But you want to be Josh. Do I? Anti-Semite. He's the anti-Semite.

That's what it is. You want to be Toby, the coolest guy on the show. Was there a Toby in the squad with you guys? See, Toby was communications director. Yeah, but he was a little dark. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I don't know.

All the characters were just amalgam of people in the White House. I know. Toby was like David Axarad, little Toby, you know? Yeah. But also like the communications director. I guess Pfeiffer could have been a little type. So you were like a Donna? I was a Donna.

You were a Donna. Yeah. Yeah. boss of people older than you at 28? Let's see, yeah. Yeah. Couple. We were pretty young, though, as a group, speechwriters. Really?

Yeah. So I think most of them were my age or younger, but like Ben Rhodes is a couple years older than me. No one's too old, too much older than me. Was there any Harvard Lampoon guys? No, we didn't have any Harvard Lampoon guys. That's actually a serious question that I said as a joke, but it's actually plausible, yeah. They're everywhere. Yeah, you always run into a fucking Harvard Lampoon guy somewhere.

Yeah. How do you get hired as speechwriters? I mean, John Lovett, I guess he was, he did a little comedy. John Lovitz. John Lovitz, my co-founder, co-host. What is, you guys bonded over having another guy with your names? No, because I didn't really like, I don't know,

it took us a while to put together the John Lovett, John Lovitz thing. Because he didn't, because it's not like my name where it's spelled the exact same. Like. What are you guys, stupid? It's right there. John, haven't you seen rat race? I have seen rat race.

Where were you doing your homework? But yeah, no, so. Love it does comedy. He was our funny guy. He was our resident funny speechwriter. That's insulting, actually. You guys had real jobs. And now you're podcasting and doing comedy?

Yeah. It's, come on. When I see NBA players doing podcasts, I'm like, I'm doing this because I'm not in the NBA. Just please. You don't want no podcast. part of this this is a hell um it's a lot easier than working on the white house what i do now yeah yeah you're lazy and rich just because just to talk about politics you're you went to

holy cross you and bill simmons your roommates okay you're in a love triangle with simmons yeah and clarence thomas yeah do you think Simmons was power ranking girls at college you'll have to ask him Zuckerberg was i think yeah That's the, yeah, that was the movie. That's how the whole thing started. That's, yeah, he was doing power rankings. Yeah. I wonder if Zuck and Simmons ever linked up.

It's like hot or not, and then like 15 years later, genocide. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Going back to like comics writing for politicians, you know how like when our government led Bibi just do open mic night to be mean to the president? We just let him go to the government to give a speech and be like, Obama's a bitch. Because the Republicans invited him.

We didn't, Obama didn't even invite him. Yeah, but you're just. the president you gotta be like i'll kill you if you could have tried that he had a line where i'm like it's got to it it's jerry jerry's in the writer's room for sure when he was like they say gays for gaza what about it's like saying chickens for kfc that's got to be a jerry that has to be a jerry do you know can you confirm or deny that jerry signfield's writing for prime minister benjamin and yaw i could i can't do neither. Can you call Jerry Seinfeld and ask him? I don't know Jerry Seinfeld. You know Jerry Seinfeld. You're

college valedictorian, right? And then you go into the carry campaign shortly thereafter. Okay. You're a speechwriter. You're probably the youngest person in the room a lot of the time. But you were like kind of a fly on the wall for history. So like, what was it like, like that arrival of Barack Obama? Like Yeah. So I was I was at the DNC in Boston. And I was like, I was like, junior speechwriter at that point in the Kerry campaign. I was backstage and all the speakers would like send their speeches to the Kerry campaign team and so I was supposed to like make sure that all the speeches were on message for the Kerry campaign. Yeah. And then my boss, the head speechwriter at the time, now now Congressman Josh Godheimer from New Jersey, he called me,

he was on the road with Kerry and he was like, hey, there is a, there's a line in Barack Obama speech who's giving the keynote that John Kerry wants to use in his speech. I was like, all right? And he's like, well, they both can't use the same line. He stole his bit? So he was like, well, I'm like, what do you talk? What are you telling me for? He's like, yeah. You have to get the line out of Obama's speech. I was like, what? So I have to go down the hall to where Obama's practicing the speech for the first time on teleprompter. Wait, go into the practice. I want to, how did he do that? He, how did he, how did he? How's Barack Obama, like, he's, I'm about to kill it.

Yeah, like, what? Well, he had never... Does he in a mirror? He had never read off a prompter before. So he had to learn to use a teleprompter because he had never, like, given a prepared speech. He's like a state senator, you know? So he was an idiot, too.

He was idiot too. So that entire White House are idiots. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And so he's practicing, and I have to go in. I'm like 21 at the time, 22. And hot. You were a piece of ass.

So hot. I was so hot. I've been looking at pigs. Shaved head? Like 10 pounds heavier buzz cut. Kind of yoked. Trying to beat your dad up. Trying to beat my dad up.

This summer break? This summer break, I'm just like, when I'm not in the campaign, I'm just trying to just get Jack to beat my dad up. So then I tell him about the line and he's so mad. Obama? Yeah. He like came up to like, he's like this close to me and he's like looking down. And I think I like blacked out for a few seconds. At that point, this very nice man, David Axarad, comes up to me and he was like, hey, son, let's walk outside and we'll rewrite the line together.

And so we, Axe and I, that's my first introduction to him, we go outside, we rewrite the line. Do you remember the line? Yeah, it's the end of the red state, blue state riff, where he says like, there are no red state, there are no blue states. He stole red state blue state? He wanted to say there are the United States, all of us pledging allegiance to the red, white, and blue. And Kerry wanted red, white, and blue. And so instead, Obama changed it to, like, all of us pledging legions to the stars and stripes. I think we did.

So anyway. To the green and yellow of Hezbollah. Yeah. What are you saying? The Hezbollah, green and yellow. That was the alt. Obama. And I figured, like, that was it.

That was the last time that I would see Obama again. But then when Kerry lost and Obama won the Senate, Robert Gibbs, who was his communications director, had been my. boss when I was a press assistant on the Kerry campaign was like hey he needs a speechwriter would you be interested now that he's in the Senate would you be interested in just like sitting down with him and and I was like why does he need a speech writer he's like that's what he thinks he doesn't want a speech writer either the guy he was mean to yeah he's like he like get that bitch from Kerry well so he didn't know it was me oh I said so I sat down with him his

first week in the Senate we have breakfast and we do the job in He was so nice great job interview. He was like, where'd you grow up? What's life like? What's your theory of speech writing? Why do you like what you say theory of speech? I was like I don't have a theory of speech right. But I talked about his convention speech in 2004 and why I loved it. And and then he was like, all right, well, I don't think I need a speech writer, but Gibbs tells me I do and you seem nice enough. So let's give this a whirl. And then like a year later, we're sitting around reminiscing about the 2004 convention and Obama was like remember that little shit who tried to take the from the carry campaign or tried to get and I was like

that was me he's like I would have never hired you and he started laughing he knew it was you at that point he did oh he was doing a bit no no no no he he found out at that moment like a year later have you told this story before this is great stuff we got to tell Sorkin we got to get Sorkin all this yeah oh my God Yeah. For the reboot. The reboot. How mean was he to you?

When he found out he was, no, he was laughing. He just couldn't believe it. Now he loves it. He was just like, and you were like, whatever you fucking state senator? Well, like, you're a bitch, dude. You're going nowhere. I'm working for the next president, John Kerry. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, here's a serious question, actually. I had floating in my head. And I don't know if you've been asked this before. Did you guys kind of, to what extent was Will Farrell to blame? Why? Because of his George Bush impression? Yeah, the funniest guy in the world was playing like a war criminal. I mean, I think it's actually like, there's something, I'm not saying it's the reason John Kerry lost. Right.

You know, it was because of what he did on the damn Swift boat. Okay? We all know about that goddamn swift boat. And that's what Obama put in his speech. He was like John Kerry, I heard he was on a Swiftboat. Yeah, that's right. Sorry. We did do a carry section.

Don't tell him I did an impression. I promise, I won't. I promise. Bush didn't get really unpopular until 5, 6, 2005, 2006, when Iraq went really south. Yeah, yeah. What happened in that? What happened over there? Yeah, nothing good.

But we've learned our lesson, so that's important. So then you were working in his Senate office? Yeah, so then I was working the Senate office. And part of the reason I took that job is, like, my parents wanted me to go to law school. You know, they're like, all right, you're not making, you didn't make a lot. any money on the carry campaign and we're not supporting you forever like you could go go to shut the fuck up yeah he's running for president like but i was like well i'll go work for Barack Obama in the senate office because he's he just got there he's obviously not going to run

for president in 2008 and so i'll just do a year there and then once the 08 campaign starts i'll go to law school and i'll be done with politics for a little while so you lied to your parents so i like to oh that was a good lie yeah yeah this guy's a total lightweight it was one speech. And then that was that. Really? And then he decided to run. And then you dropped Yes We Can. That's you? Yes We Can was in the his 2004 Senate race.

It was a tagline in one of his ads. And then I and the other speechwriters brought it back for the New Hampshire speech, the night of the New Hampshire primary in the 2007. Oh, so you copied Yes We Can from Obama. Yeah, just lifted it from... Who copied it from the farm laborers?

Yes, from from Cesar. Chavez. Is there like a... Like in comedy, if you steal a bit, it's like a bad thing. Like, is there the concept of that in speech writing? No.

Yeah. No. You just steal liberally. When you... So, like, when you, like, were developing a skill in your job, like, did you watch game tape

of people, like, previous speeches? I did a little bit of that. I read bold speeches, but... Yeah. I think the key... I think what a lot of politicians

do you know, which is a mistake, is like, they try to copy, like, the style of a politician in the past who gives a speech, and then it sounds phony because it's like, like, for a while you had politicians trying to, like, all copy John F. Kennedy. And now, now you get that with Obama, right? Yeah, yeah. So it's like... Gavin was trying Obama a little bit there. Who? Gavin Newsome. Yeah, a little bit. Josh Shapiro sends a little Barack Obama sometimes. Let me be clear, yeah. There's a little... It's that generation of politicians. Beto, Roark was kind of ripping it up. Beto's a little bit.

And so I did a little bit of that, but mostly I just got to know Obama. Like he also, he had written, by the time he ran for president, two books. I helped him edit the second book, Audacity of Hope. So he would like, he wrote that in the Senate office. And so he would come in in the morning.

He had been up to like 3 a.m. The night before writing. Party. He'd give this long chapter. And then I would like it. So it's like I became. like I was in his head at that point yeah like I knew how he thought the rhythm yeah so that's so Obama invented that shit invented what like oh the Obama I mean that was hit

yeah yeah yeah I thought it was central casting it was I thought it was the Illuminant no no so that's I mean so then you had to like learn the cadence and kind of the rhythm of Obama speech yeah and then I would sort of travel with him and make sure that I go to a lot of his speeches I'd listen to all of his interviews I would just And then I just spend time with them. Like every time we were about to give a speech, I would just sit down and say, like, what do you want to say? And we would, like, chat for an hour.

Yeah. About life? About politics. Do you guys ever watch a movie together? I don't think we've watched, maybe, I don't think so. Really? No. I didn't really have a lot of time for movies.

Yeah, but one day, like, let's kind of just, let's watch a movie. I do it with these boys. He did at one point start. I, like, have never seen any of the classics movies. Really? And they were talking about it on the plane once, and he was like, you've never seen Chinatown? You've never seen. And then he's like, don't come into work Monday unless you've like seen some of these classic movies.

Like I'm ordering you to see some of these movies. Sure. That's your commander in chief. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because he's a movie buff. So he told you to watch like a... I went home and I watched China.

Good movies? It was fine. Dude, it's so sick. Your life is sick. It was. And you were hot the whole time? Yeah. debatable do you have a look at pigs you gotta go okay can i tell you guys i'm

i'm gonna be a little jewish mother here mm-hmm but with good taste not bad taste sure not go to banana republic and buy me a f***ing shirt and it's like you should go back to the buzz cut you think so aviators messenger bag buzz cut aviators this is way worse and you got your hair still i do have my hair still or you went to turkey well you went with eric adams i did yeah yeah the isombole of new york yeah um no obama said to me we were once he was like He gave you style tip? He was like, I'm just saying. He's like, you're like a good-looking guy with your hair.

I think you could grow it out. I don't think you need to be... He goes, I don't think you need to be... We got to call Obama right now. I don't know. It was easy. That was why I did it, because I was so busy and I had never had time to do anything. So I, like, buzzed my hair myself.

Let's go back to speech crafts. So you read a lot of speeches. Can I ask you a question? And this is not political, okay? Like, was Hitler good? Like, I don't know German, so. I do not spend a lot of time with Hitler speeches. The chops.

Like, Bill Cosby was a great comic. I'll say it. Okay? Was Hitler good? You know, I just haven't listened to enough of his speeches. I presume there was some charisma there. Did Hitler do like a yes we can't? What was it?

Where do you stand in the goat debate? Do you think Hitler or Martin Luther King? Where are you... This is a good... You've been a Hitler guy for a while. This is a good story. His first, like, foreign trip in the middle of the 2008 campaign, and he goes to Germany.

And so Ben Rhodes and I work on the speech, and Ben goes on the trip with him. I'm back in Chicago, and it's like an hour before the speech, and Ben had the foresight of speech. Ben had the foresight of being like, I'm just going to run it by some Germans just to make sure we're not, there's no trip wires, you know. And we have this phrase at the end of the speech where we say something about like a community of fate or something. I don't know.

And Ben's like, yeah, we have a problem that that is a Nazi, that's a Hitler phrase. That's a Hitler line. That's a Hitler line. Yeah, yeah. It was a Hitler bar. It was a Hitler bar. And so we were, we changed it. We figured it out and changed it like right before the speech.

You had had an Ich bin, I and Berlin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think Kennedy was actually that hot? Kennedy? Yeah, people are like, that's the hot president.

Obama should be. Yeah. Obama's that smile. Yeah. Yeah, he's probably hotter. Did you write the lines that were like, for a skinny kid with big ears and a funny name? That's him. Oh, God.

I loved what he did. When he talked about, I was like, I got a funny name and big ears. That's him? That's him. He loved making fun of his big ears. Oh, my God. It's so cute the way he did it. Oh, my God.

There was one about Lincoln, though, right? Lincoln. A gangly. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's right. He liked some Lincoln references. Obama's into Lincoln. Big time.

Really, but he's a Republican. I love when they say. That's why he's bipartisan. They say party of Lincoln. Like, they would have been in that party. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We just had this primary in New York and this general where a Democrat was being attacked by a Democrat.

And it was like, in retrospect, it's Islamophobia. Like, yeah, like it is. Like, Zora Maldonis is from the Upper West Side. I mean, he's basically Jewish. I mean, like, he is. You know, and then they were like, this is Osama bin Laden. Right. You were in a pretty vicious primary where your boss was attacked and, and there were Islamophobic

attacks launched. All kinds of attacks. I guess like, and that candidate became the next candidate for president. Why is there a space for that in the Democratic Party? Like, I mean, if we want to be like the Republicans are racist, right? Like, why is this happening in the Democratic Party? Well, like, in that 0-8 primary, it was subtle, right? Yeah.

Mark Penn, her chief strategist, had, like, written a memo that was like, we got to talk about how, you know, that you're American and your American roots and that he's not as American. It was like something, I'm paraphrasing, but, yeah, it was pretty bad. It got worse when, obviously, in the general, when Sarah Palin did her thing, but. What was her thing? Yeah, just being... She made that movie. She did make that movie.

Or that reality show. Oh, never mind. I talked about that different thing. Oh, yeah, that movie. Yeah. That's good one. But I found out what wasn't Sarah Palin. It was Lisa Ann.

It's called Nailen Palin. It's a pornography. Was the guy in it Barack Obama? No, I don't think so. No. Was it McCain? Who was the guy in? No, it couldn't have been McCain.

Was it Putin? Because she saw him. from the house? That would have been good. That would have been good. If he like across the Bering Strait. We should do a remake. If they fell in love across the Bering Strait, yeah, we just made it just a beautiful story. Like yeah, and then just hardcore sex. Anyway, has Barack Obama ever seen? We'll cut that. Okay, cut that. That's just come on, we're having fun. Cut that. You ever hoop with Obama? Uh, no. They never, they never asked me to hoop. Yeah, yeah, but you were telling me, you know what? We were in the, we were in the campaign once, like,

at some stuff and they were like, do you want to play tomorrow? And I'm like, no, I don't want to play tomorrow morning. Yeah. I'm going to be horrible. I'm going to be in my, I could like, in your head. I could barely play when I was like a freshman in high school. So I can't imagine embarrassing myself and like being in my head when I was with the, with the president.

But you said that you were saying before the show, I mean, I don't know if this was off the record, but that Obama calls bullshit fouls in pickup things. And people are like, fucking, come on, dude. Come on. This is a bad line, though. I want to criticize this. Sure. Our children are going to have to turn off the TV set once in a while and put away the video games and start hitting the books.

You wrote that at what, 24 for Obama? Yeah. What a fucking loser. Loser. You wrote, like, turn off the damn, you wrote, pull up your damn pants. Pants. Yeah. He was big on all that.

He was a pull up your damn pants guy? Yeah. Where did he? He stole that from Cosby, though. One of many. All right. I went to school in D.C. I remember the night.

We were talking about this on the phone yesterday, but the night Obama won. It was like, it was incredible. My experience from that night, which I'll always remember, so I was working on the speech like the couple days before, and I was trying to figure out an ending to the speech if we won. And I'd seen some story on CNN about how there was like a three-hour line to vote in Atlanta. And there was this woman who waited in line for three hours,

and she was 102 years old. And our name is Ann Nixon Cooper. And Obama killed her. And Obama killed her. And so I was like, oh, this is a great way to end the speech, because I can talk about all the things she saw in the century that she's lived in America and like all the progress. Like when she was born, like she couldn't vote because she was a woman because she was black. And then you could talk through all the, and so right up the ending, Obama likes it, and then he calls me right before they call the final state, and he's like, all right, I'm going to give you final edits, gives me the final edits to the speech, and then my friend Tommy was like, you should probably, we should like call in Nixon Cooper and like let her know she's going to be

in this speech. So I have our research people find her number, I call her up, and it's like, frail woman answers the phone and I was like tell her the whole story and I was like and he's gonna give the speech soon and she goes he is it will it be on television and I was like yeah it'll be on television she's like what channel will it be on and I was like all the channels and she's like I'm I'm so I'm so happy I'm so proud finally and then right as she said that they call Ohio and And it's the election and like everyone's just cheering. And I'm like sitting there talking to Ann Nixon Cooper on the phone for a couple more minutes. It was pretty cool.

I want to cry right now. I thought she was going to say she voted for McCain. And then she was like anyway. She's like, she's like, fuck that guy. Let me know. I'm 102. You think I voted for Obama? You fucking idiot?

That's wrong with you. Muslim socialist? What is wrong with you? My dad was kind of like that with Bernie. He's like, they won't let us be the president. They'll kill him. He's like, yeah, just like my dad would not, he's like, I'm not voting for him because he's Jewish, Adam. They're not going to last.

He's like, I agree with pretty much everything he stands for. But Adam, come on. They let us be Supreme Court. They only let two Catholics. It's kind of, it's kind of a proper Protestant country. Think about it. It is. It is.

Yeah. Well, Obama's muzzle, I guess. Right. Yeah. And Trump is Baha'i. I love when he talks about how much he loves the Bible. Like, he's like, the Bible is great. It's like, it's just, I know all the parts.

Yeah. It's like when LeBron was talking about the autobiography of Malcolm X. He's like, and he was on page one, he's like, it's just how smart he was. You're like in the middle of history, right? Did your mom still tell you to go to law school that night? No, they were they let go of the law school. They were like, now you're making 35. This is great.

You're off to the white house. 35K, you're the richest guy ever. Loser. It was like a moment where it's like America, things could get better. Because I think, I remember 9-11 and then things started getting sad. Maybe shit's going to be better. And I can't imagine what it was like for you guys. That's what we did.

There was like an echo at the beginning of the speech about how change has come to America. That was you? Which was intentionally from the Sam Cooke song. Oh, I thought you were going to say Hitler. From Morgana, Hitler, right? Because we thought like we needed a good, like American anthem, but that was also about not just triumphant, but about like injustice being, you know, solved a little bit. Or at least improved. But even then, I will say, as wonderful as that night was, and it was like, you know, we were all excited.

Because the financial crisis had already begun, we all sort of knew that we were walking into a shitstorm. And that, like, we could enjoy election night, but that, like, this was going to be even harder than we imagine when we started the campaign because things were getting, things were pretty bad. You should have told me. I mean, it's an interesting thing to bring up because, like, that was, I did feel like idealism, but like, I do remember very early on where I was like, they broke the economy, right? There were people that ruined people's lives. And I was, I remember going home, I was, like, graduating college 2009. So it was like the job market was terrible.

And I'd go to visit my parents. And there were lights off in our names. neighborhood. People had been like foreclosed on. And I remember like I did feel like that idealism kind of was extinguished when like they didn't go to jail. And in fact, they got rich or a lot of them. You know? So there weren't, there weren't laws on the books, which is part of the problem, part of the whole reason the crisis happened, that you could prosecute some of these people for. I remember there was like two fucking Bear Stearns traders who were prosecuted, got off. And they had a, Then there was like a civil suit against them.

I remember like years later. They settled that. And one of the reasons we passed or worked past Wall Street reform, Dodd-Frank, was both to make sure that that never happened again, but also to put laws in the book so that people couldn't get away with that shit. And it was, but like I remember. But sorry to cut you up. But like, I do remember that, like, Larry Summers was like saying, like, we need evictions

to save the banking crisis. You know, like, that was a major influence in the administration. And I was like, I was like, fuck. It's like, why are they letting these guys do that? I remember when the, when the assholes that ran AIG were going to get their bonuses. Uh-huh. And we, I was like, well, obviously we can stop them from getting their bonuses, right? Yeah.

And they were like, no, no, we're going to have to, he's going to have to give a statement saying we can't. Yeah. And I sat down with Larry. and I'm like, okay, explain this to me like, I'm an idiot. And he had a flight. He had a flight. Yeah, right. He had a flight to get.

To the island. And I was like, explain this to me like, I'm an idiot because I was, who doesn't know anything about the economy, which I didn't. I mean either. I don't know anything. And I was like, why are they getting the bonuses? Well, it's contract law. And if we take the bonuses and claw them back, it's against the law, and then they could

sue it. And I was like, here's the thing. There's people with f***ing pitchfork. like outside the White House right now for good reason. And like this is a just, and it's just like indicative of those first couple years where there was just like unsatisfying decision after unsatisfying decision that we had to take or couldn't do anything about because the economy, what was set in motion that destroyed the economy was already set in motion.

So all we could, now I do think if we went back like we probably, we should have have done more on housing. And for sure, because the foreclosures just, like, continued for way too long. And it was much worse than anyone thought at the beginning. Did you ever, like, voice, like, vigorous, like, opposition to a decision? Because the thing is, you're a speech writer, right?

So you're not like, you kind of were like, Obama was like, what do you think? Do you ever say, what do you think? Not really because I was the 20-something because you were 28. Okay. But I got to see a lot. I didn't really participate, but I got to see

a lot of the policy debates unfold. So because you see that and hear it, you start to realize, OK, well, there's a reason that they're making this unsatisfactory decision. And so you sort of understand it. But the most common question I always get is, was there anything that you just completely disagreed with, like, you had a political view?

The only one really was like, I, you know, he didn't come out for gay marriage until the reelect in 2012. And I was for gay marriage long before that. So he gets Sharia law. Sureillah. Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of us sort of imagined that he was actually for gay marriage, but the politics prevented him.

He probably said it. He was probably like a four-game marriage. He never said it. I think he's, you know, he's also, he's old school in that regard, which is like he's, I think it took him a little bit to get there, too. I think he got there before he actually said he was for it, but I think that the politics got in the way, if I had to guess. But that was the only issue that I was really.

So you never had to write a speech for something that you were opposed to. No. Yeah. No. You're never like gay people shouldn't get married, the speech. Right, because there wasn't a gungly kid with big ears. I'm not gay, by the way. By the way, I'm not gay and that's why I'm...

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Oh, yeah. He seemed a scary guy. Yeah, but you know what? He was a scary guy. But I finally realized that when he yells at you, you just to yell back. back at him. Really? And then it's fine.

You would yell back? I finally did. Because he would, he would once in a while call and weigh in and be like, I got this great line for the speech that like Carvel sent me or Begala sent me, you know? And I was like, okay, cool, what's the line? And it's a line that sounds like it's from the 90s. And I was like, eh, and then he was like, come on, why, why are you? Like yelling at me and finally I was just like, no.

Yeah, and he's missing a finger. Ron was a yeller, but we like, the Obama campaign, didn't have like yellers. That wasn't like, Axrod wasn't like that, Pluff wasn't like that. It really was when we got to the White House some of the old Clinton era people that came on. Rom mostly. Ram was like a, Ram was a figure that was different than the typical Obama. Do you think that there was a resentment amongst those Clinton people? Because in DC, my understanding is that like he didn't serve a full term in the Senate even, Obama. He was like, you know, skipping the line pisses people off.

Yeah. And do you think that in the party there was like a resentment? that kind of lasted? I don't know. I think that all I know is that when Hillary came on as Secretary of State, they're, like, we were all very skeptical. All of us on the staff level who'd run the campaign.

I think her staff was also probably skeptical. I think that Obama and Hillary genuinely developed a good relationship. And so that wasn't much of an issue. I think the more, I think the resentment probably came more from Congress. Democrats in Congress did not think, like, they were very happy that Barack Obama's president. They loved him, but they did not think that, like, they owed him everything and had to do whatever he said.

Because I think a lot of them thought, well, I've been here for a lot longer than you have. Is it true that, like, the vice president is, like, the loser? Like, the total fucking loser? I think that's what my understanding is, is that you get a vice president and you fucking just abuse them. No, you know, go figure out this impossible thing, loser. There's a little bit of that. You'll be the czar of the impossible thing. No, Biden got to be like help manage the recovery act.

That was his first job. Why did you give him a good one? He liked it too. Yeah, I don't know. It was good. No, I think you're lying, dude. You can't have the vice president. He probably got a bad job at time of one.

The vice president's head can't get too big, right? Yeah, no. No, the vice president, it's just tough because it's like it's a job where you don't have any official responsibility. So, like, every new vice president has to like make up with the president what their job is. Obama would never be the vice president, right? Because he's too, he's got too much sauce. He's going to give a speech that's too good

that John Kerry is going to want to steal. Right, right? Like, so you can't get a guy that's like going to look good. Yeah. You have to get a guy that's like, you know. Well, we thought with Joe Biden, we're like, well, and he's not going to run for president because he's like, he ran every time.

Did he run every time for president? Since 88? Yeah. No. But he ran, he ran twice. Did he skip one? Yeah, he did skip. He skipped a couple. He ran in 2008. I think before 2008 he hadn't run since 88. He loves running for president. He finally became president. He even, he even did it last time too. He did it last time. He did it last time. He couldn't stop. He couldn't stop. He was addicted. Were you guys worried about his addiction to running for president?

We're like, we love you, we're here for you. Yeah, this is an intervention. George Clooney, take it away. Yeah, like America felt like it was getting sadder and sadder. And then there was this moment where it was like, what if it's better, right? And then we saw, you know, a guy that was super young and has like left off as super young, who is the first black president. And it was, that's amazing. We got rid of slavery at the shock clock. That was a buzzer-beater, getting rid of slavery.

I mean, like, and in America, like, you know, it was like, holy shit. And then we kind of saw him make his life kind of hell, no? Yep. You know? I mean, there was a real moment where I was, like, after Sandy Hook, and he's, like, crying. Yeah. And he's like, just fucking, just banned bazookas.

Like, please, they're, like, babies just died. You had to have seen him like, fuck. What is the most bummed out you saw the boy? I think then, uh, right after, after Sandy Hook when we tried to pass, because remember, we tried to pass background checks, like the most basic, incremental... Just make sure it's not Charles Manson. Right.

So there's a background check bill, this horrific shooting of children just happened. It was baby. The sponsors of the bill are fucking Joe Manchin and Pat Toomey, conservative Republican from Pennsylvania. So you're like, it's not like a bunch of libs, right? And... Now Joe Manchin is a soft... Rick. Yeah, and with those two his sponsors and doing the bill, and Barack Obama and the tragedy, no, it just fails. Just don't, we don't get. And then he's like, if we can't, if we can't get background checks at this moment with these people, like, what, what are we doing?

Did you ever cheer him up? Are you like, can we watch a movie finally? He, honestly, like, he would cheer us up. Really? Oh, yeah, he was like. He was nice to you? I remember after the is in 2012 the reelect and he gives his convention speech in North Carolina and I thought the speech we all thought the speech went well we were all happy and it got some like terrible reviews from a few places and

like Politico is like just saying it's a terrible speech and Bill Clinton gave the better speech at the convention and we're on Air Force One after like leaving going back to DC and I'm sitting there and I'm just like reading the Politico piece to him and other people and I'm just like mad yelling and he's like hey he goes how do you think I feel I wake up every day you humiliated me I wake up every day knowing that half the country hates me and doesn't want it doesn't hate everything that I'm doing doesn't like I'm doing he's like and I just you got to keep going he's like this whole job is like making sure you listen to people that you listen to criticism that you take in all the right information that

that you really sit with us, but once you make a decision, you make the decision, you let the chips fall where they may, and if people are angry or people criticize you, you just gotta keep moving. Because otherwise he's like, we're never gonna get anything done and you're gonna get in your head. He's like, my job is not to sit here and be upset all the time and in my head and worried about criticism.

My job is to do everything I can do to help the country and make people's lives better. And then it made me feel like an asshole for complaining about a political abuse. Yeah, bitch, dude. Grow up. Why are you complaining Obama? Grow up.

Dude, everyone hates him. He's wearing a tan suit and eating a burger with, like, French crap on it. Yeah. Yeah. Those were his scandals. Yeah, the tan suit. He's eating a gay burger. Yeah, the Dijon mustard.

Yeah, Dijon mustard. Forgot about that. You fucking, like, that was on the news. Yeah. Were you in the situation room? That was his, that was the moment where he got love from everyone. Oh, with the bin Laden. You were in the situation?

No. I was not right into that. What a loser. Loser. No, because- Were you outside, like, trying to listen in? No, because I didn't, I didn't know what happened until, I didn't know what happened to like gut the draft remarks of what he was going to say from then.

Oh, you were a fucking loser, dude. Well, I didn't do any of the, I was, I wasn't the foreign policy national security speech writer guy. That sucks. Yeah. Can you imagine how sick it was? Hillary Clinton saying, this is my plan. I'm calling all the shots here. Shut up, Obama.

Seal Team 6. No, it was the night after the correspondence dinner where he gave a big joke speech and he made fun of Donald Trump. And so we were very focused on that speech. And I remember the day of that speech. Oh, he ruined the people. Well, we were like, yeah.

He ruined the world. And then he killed Ben Laden the next day? He was so. Oh, my God. We're like, we're going to, so it's like, John Lovett and David Axford and I, we're like, all right, we're going to go into the Oval and just get last minute edits on the, on the correspondent speech, great. And they're like, oh, he's meeting with some general. The speech is in five hours. We got to make all the edits.

Let us in, you know. No, he's talking to Jeff Ross, the roastmaster general, obviously getting better jokes that you're bitch has. He's talking to Lisa Lampinelli. He's got the Harvard Lampoon guys. We go in there, and he's like chilling, throwing a football around. Just in a good mood? No. Yeah.

And then he was like, all right, I like the speech. Everything's great. There's just one line where the joke is about bin Laden. He's like, and I would just make it some other, like, you know, bad guy or Middle Eastern sounding guy. Because it was about, anyway. And so he's like, what about Hosni Mubarak? And I was like, it's a worst line. It's a terrible joke.

It's like saying Mussolini. It's like, Ben Laden is so much. And he's like, trust me, trust me. And the meeting before us was he was on the phone with General McRaven that was like his last call before the Before the mission. Okay, first of all, let's go back He's bragging. He's doing a wink because he knows that's a better line, right? Second of all, or maybe he doesn't want to disparage the dead. He's like I don't want to be possible What he's trying to be guys? He wasn't dead yet. He wasn't dead yet

The terrorist Osama bin Laden What is he what is he doing? He's worried about giving shoes. It wouldn't be it wouldn't be purple of me it wouldn't be purple of me to disparage his body's barely cold I'm gonna I'm gonna go in there he's gonna be watching porno and I'm gonna shoot a lot of pornography right a lot of pornography yeah it's pretty cool yeah I wonder if he had nail and palin yeah full circle that was a good call that you got jobs brother you got jobs brother? All right. Were you left what year did you leave the White House? 2013. Yeah and we would how'd you feel getting out there in that world? You felt like

kind of like I could go like take on the world. They could live life a little bit. Yeah. Take a break. Yeah. And then I moved out here. Moved to move to LA. I don't here. Yeah. You try to get in the biz. Yeah, I thought I was gonna like, Rom, can your brother, can I get your brother? I did. Well, I met with Ari when I went out to LA and it was like, he was exactly like his brother. Yeah. Oh, I thought he was going to be like Ari Gold. And that too. He had a Lloyd? I walk into his office and he's like on a, on a treadmill, on the phone, walking treadmill, yelling on the phone. And I was like, is this real? Is this just like a, this is like entourage? So you were writing like really important speeches for the president of the United States and then

you're writing like a 30 rock spec script for your packet basically what's wrong with you well then we your mom your parents should be this point it's a disappointment it was a disappointment I'm gonna be a little bit of a Jewish mother like what are you doing yeah well didn't go anywhere I have to do this I have no skills then we started then we started writing speeches my now co-host and co-founder Tommy Vitor and I we started writing speeches for hire yeah we were we did that for a little bit did you ever get pissed because you're like it's not like yes all the time that's why I ended up I couldn't do that job you're like did you write a Zuckerberg you dropped to Zuckerberg no no but you did oh yeah and he was like

this is the change that we believe in for for a gengly kid from with big ears and a funny name you're like what are you doing it was hard to take like any company that was like oh that the CEO really needs a speech urgently in a month and it's so important because you know I'm like, this is not that important. Would you write a speech for Donald Trump? No. What if it was like he gave you $1 million? I could.

I mean, I could at this point after you, I could easily write a speech to Donald. In his voice? Exactly in his voice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I would not do that now. Arnold Palmer's dick! I wish I did a good one.

What was your specs, your sitcom specs here? You did 30 rock? No, it was called. It was called Early States. And it was going to be about a bunch of young people in Iowa. It's supposed to be like a funnier, more like, you know, raunchier sort of West Wing kind of thing. Oh, and they're like on the campaign trail? Yeah, they're hooking up.

Yeah, basically. Yeah, and there's a little. It's like a VEP. A little more Veehanucci. Yeah, before Vee. All right, all right. I wrote a 9-11 sex in the city spec. Was that?

Yeah. Carrie was upset because like. That's still in development. no they're not gonna make it because we in this political whatever but yeah care because carrie's dating new york city so she's really sad but samantha has to get south of 14th street because she needs to go have sex yeah and then uh steven charlotte or stephen miranda are trying to spice things up in their relationship they're not really paying attention not 11 and then charlotte's like uh realizes she's watching tv that she had sex with mohammed

aata the night before what I think it was kind of a serious episode. I don't know. I don't know if that's meant to be funny. More of a dromedy. You found it company Fenway Strategies? Yeah, that was it. Yeah, what the, what the fuck?

Like a Boston. Yeah, Boston guy. What were your strategies? Like, you should blind a Vietnamese guy in one eye in a street fight? What were your strategies? Keeping minorities in a neighborhood called Jamaica? That's a little bit on the nose. What were your strategies?

Mispronouncing Carr? Who put that in here? Was it just pure exhaustion leaving the White House? Or is there like a... Do you want to get off the bench? Yeah. You kind of like possess a very valuable perspective on things. Do you feel like perhaps like an obligation to...

I mean, look at this shit right now. I mean, like, you should... What are you... I do feel an obligation, but I think that the reason we started Crooked Media and Pod Save America and all the rest and Votesave America was because our theory was we need... Like the way people consume news about politics now is broken and people don't want to Participate in politics. Yeah, and people are unsure of like how to persuade people to you know vote the way we want them to vote and so we figured let's start a media company and

And and also let's make sure that there's part of the company which is votes of America that like registers people to vote gets people to organize gets people to run for office themselves Mm-hmm so right now I feel like that is me doing yeah but look how stupid they are the guys the guys no the guys in the white house

in the show the guys in the show the guys in the league right now are you're smarter than the guys in the league right now now we need a good candidate now we need a good candidate for 28 why don't you do yeah right

why not you're a good looking guy you buzz the hair you get that you think I should buzz the hair you get the aviators you buzz the air put the aviators back on Oh my God. Less hair. Yeah.

What would J.D. What would J.D. Bin Laden do about it? What would he even do? He would have no shot against the Buzzcott kid with a gangly ear and whatever. With it. A skinny kid with a huge dick and big ears. Did you ever have to, did he ever write the huge dick and you're like, Mr. President? You can't just say that.

It's show not tell. It's come on. A skinny kid with big feet. You know what that. We all know what that means. I mean, like, yeah, I guess, like, yeah, starting a media company, obviously, you have access to a lot of people. You know, that's, you have a huge platform now, of course. But, like, is there a motivation?

Like, is there something inside of you where you're like, I kind of like, especially like seeing so how wackadoo it is now? Yeah. Where it's like I could have a direct involvement or I could have like a, you're doing analysis now, right? Like, like, I wouldn't shut the door on it. But like, I'm always trying to figure out. like how am I being of most use? And right now I think I am a better use doing what we're doing. You're doing a humble thing right now.

Oh, no, no, no. This is just like I... Look how they're dumb guys. They're dumb guys now. There's a ton of smart people. Who's the smartest? I don't know. Besides Bernie, obviously.

Besides Bernie, right. No, there just needs to be... But like, you need a candidate, right? Like, you need a... You can get a movement. That's good. You get organizers. You get staffers.

You need a candidate who can... the country. And I don't, right now. Stop. Yeah, it's probably going to have to be stopped or me. I think a lot about your old boss and obviously, you know, I think about him in like Martha's Vineyard watching TV. And like it's just like what the, like there has to be a small inkling or like fear where's like, is it my fault? Did I do something? You know, or like, right? Like, it's like the world fell apart like right after yep um yeah he doesn't think it's his fault but I think he spends a lot of time thinking about how do we get out of this how can I help um and he spends a lot of time talking to a lot of candidates a lot of people in the party yeah trying to figure out

sort of but he I think he also knows that and he said this he's like I you know I can't be it can't be like dragging me out on stage forever but there needs to be good a new, a new younger leader in the party. I was at the election night at Zoran speech, and I believe that they asked the speechwriter, you know, there were a lot of parallels with Obama speeches, and that was like something that they modeled out. No, I talked to those guys. They're fantastic.

That must feel cool. I mean, it does feel like there's a young, handsome, charismatic guy in the party again. When we were... And they're calling him a Muslim again, and it's like, wow, we're back. We were in D.C. a few weeks ago. a bunch of us from the Obama world got to hang out with a bunch of the Mamdani staff. And it was great. We were like the old guys, like, reminiscing and so proud of them.

And, you know, it's like, we're all, like, different parts of the ideological spectrum. But there's, there is a real connection there in the, well, this was one of the first campaigns we can remember in a while where people were so excited. And it was genuinely grassroots. And that, like, it gut people off their couch and off their fucking phones. and meeting up and knocking on doors. And yes, it was about Zoran, but it was also about these kids, the young people, in a really tough time,

actually allowing themselves to be hopeful again. It sucks, dude. It sucks, because it's like supporting Arsenal. I was talking about it was Zoron. It's the hope that kills you. It is the hope that kills you. The first time, it was your fault, and then it was when they knifed Bernie twice.

But this is why it's like hope, difference between hope and optimism, not the first one to say that. but like I I like hope optimist I don't like because it's like optimism is just guessing or hope or saying like maybe the future will be better now and and and so now we elected Zoran and like he'll either do great or he'll disappoint us and that's it but having hope is like all right what are we all going to do if you're living in New York City to help make sure mom Donnie is a successful mayor well you personally I'm going back to like you and feeling a sense of obligation like you had a firsthand experience on the like a popular grassroots movement that didn't that had trouble translating into into legislative success a lot of the time like you more than anyone I would imagine could impart those lessons you know to to to an administration like that maybe you should be like an intern or a PA or something I I I take calls from from anyone who wants advice I'm always happy to yeah yeah

for advice. I do a lot of, I do a lot of free work in my time. No, you're like, I'm on the phone with Zuckerberg. I can't take his call right now. I have to teach him about a buddy mark. I guess at this moment, like there's the Democratic Party kind of, it still hasn't coalesced around like platform agenda. Platform agenda, you know, opposition to, what is that coalition at this point? I think back to that first video that Mammani did. in his race when he went to the Bronx and in a few neighborhoods and was asking voters who voted for Trump for the first time. They told him why and he wasn't judgmental and they talked how it was like well I'm too expensive and that's why I did it and I do think that whatever the coalition is for the Democrats,

it's going to be like hey the purpose of a political party the purpose of government is to Make sure that you can do whatever possible to improve people's lives and improve people's financial well-being. And if we, you have to be willing to, first of all, talk to everyone, talk to people who didn't even vote your way, leave out the possibility that, I mean, hold open the possibility that you can persuade people and that people aren't unreachable just because they voted for Donald Trump. and build a coalition of working-class people in this country. And the Democrats will never win an election if we are a coalition of college-educated, mostly white people, which is where it's heading towards.

And for a while, we thought, okay, we're the more diverse coalition, and then we started losing working-class Hispanic voters and started losing some working-class black men. You're losing rappers. Losing rappers. It's not good. And so, you know, we're still a diverse coalition, but the way it's going is it's getting more college educated.

And you've just, you know, two-thirds of the people in the country don't have a college degree. One-third do. And so just do the fucking math. Like, we're not going to be a majority coalition that way. And so you've got to find a way to, you know, reach out and win working-class people again. And the way to do that is to, it's really hard because you want to have an agenda that would tangibly improve their lives, but also you have to deliver on that agenda and you have to be able to like Zoron is going to have to figure out how to get a big part of his agenda passed or else you're

going to get. It's a messy thing too. It's a messy thing and it's not all going to get done. And so then you've got to figure out like, okay, I mean, we dealt with this with the Affordable Care Act. It's not everything we wanted. It's not everything we needed. But we got 20 million people health insurance. And we still need to build on it. And now we need to, you know, expand it and all that. But it's hard to say, all right, it's super difficult to pass a piece of legislation this big. We did it. That's great. But now people are still not happy because for good reason, they don't have enough. And so now vote for us again and we'll do the rest. Like even saying it, like it sounds so piecemeal and incremental. And the reality is that's politics. And that's the way the fucking system

of government is set up? I mean, I think, like, I was obviously a big support, I was a big supporter of the Bernie Sanders campaign, but I think one of the advantages is like you go to the doctor is a thing that you can understand. Yeah. And it is a tangible exchange of like, if you vote for me, you go to the doctor.

There's a transactional aspect to it, right? Right. Like, like, it is a very simple, and I would imagine a compelling platform to say, Everyone in this country should be able to find a job. And if you have a job, you should be able to see a doctor, live somewhere. Yeah, yeah. And have enough money to raise a family and have some free time.

Only if you have a job? And if you don't have a job? You can't go to the doctor. Then you can't go. And if you don't have, if there's not a job available to you, then we'll help you as well. Is there a feeling amongst members of the administration of regret after seeing what's happening with ICE right now? I don't know. Because it was...

My understanding was a small program in DHS that was expanded under Obama. Yeah. We, no, where we fucked up was the first couple years. That's where, like, most of the deportations happened. And then by the time, I think, like, Obama and the administration got their hands around it, they change the...

Because if you're president, you have a lot of latitude there, and so you can sort of change the enforcement priorities. So then you can say, all right, ICE can only go after people who are... criminal, like violent criminals or the most recent arrivals, right? And so I think by the time, like 12, 13, 14 got around to that. But again, you're dealing with this, with ICE, which is like, has a mind of its own and got pretty big under the end of the Bush administration.

So those first two years, you saw, like, a ton of deportations. So the expansion was under Bush, or it wasn't a... Bush. And then... I thought Bush was trying to do the... He was trying to do amnesty, wasn't he? And so were we. the president can do a whole bunch of stuff on enforcement

and either enforce more, as Trump is doing now, or enforce less, as we did by the end of Obama's second term. But you're never going to actually fix the system unless you change the laws and say, okay, the people who are here, who are undocumented, you all get a path to citizenship, you get protection from deportation, and we're not just going to say that you get protection under one president,

and then if Donald Trump wins again, you lose it, we're going to write it into law. I had Lena Kahn on the show, and she was talking about how there's like an inquest or like some tribunal after World War II in Congress, like in, into like how does a country become the Nazis? Yeah. And I'm like, whoa. I was like, they try to learn a lesson? I'm like, that's, I mean, that sounds baffling in this day and age, right? But then in the abstract, I understood kind of what was going on with the detainments.

and but there are in effect concentration camps in America right now and like just got I've tried to say this before but I think the most distinct way of saying it is like how does a country become Nazis like not every German person became a Nazi or started hating Jews they just they it was largely invisible a lot of the time they would see people get snatched and then they'd go to the office the next day and like they were sent to the east and I think like I can see the Democratic Party sometimes being like, we gotta protect Social Security.

You know, like, I can see them be like, like we don't have time, this is happening, but like, what's more important is protecting social, and that is- We gotta talk about kitchen table issues. That is, I think, what's really scary to me right now. Actually, it's scary, it also- It's human beings.

It's like what keeps me awake at night. It's infuriating to me. And part of this is like, we've been talking about Germany and all that. Like, you don't even need to do any of the historical parallels, because then you get into all these conversations. Is it like that? Is it not like that? Just go from the level of, like, individual human beings.

There are hundreds, thousands of people in this country, like, many of whom are here legally. Did everything right? Didn't just, like, cross the border illegally. We're here legally. Some of them, U.S. citizens, snatched away, taken from their families. From their kids. Pregnant women who, like, aren't getting the food they need. That is happening in this country.

And all I can think about is, like, you can show me the fucking poll that tells me, well, people don't care as much about immigration. And if you talk more about health care and social security, that's going to, I get that. I'm a student of polling. I like polling. I've done it.

But like, you can't tell me that if someone hears the story of the pregnant woman who is snatched from her family and imprisoned for three days with no due process, that that's not going to get them angry? And maybe, and if it doesn't, then I guess that's our country. But at least we can try to make sure that people know that those are the stories that are happening right now. It seems like now is a time where we kind of need to take some lessons, not from just Trump being crazy, but from like what

led us to this point? 100%. And what is like the first most important thing that we should be investigating and, or what is the biggest lesson we have to take for the runway that led us here? I mean, because you were there eight for the runway, the initial time. I think we need leaders in this country who, and you brought this up when you talked about, like, how the policies can sometimes feel small or incremental. But I think that Democrats for a while now have campaigned with a list of policies that poll well and also have campaigned sort of based on a sense of fear that either they're going to lose the election or that the other side is going to win and the other side is so bad that they

can't say anything that would help the other side win, you know, and so everyone is campaigning very cautiously and speaking cautiously and given their poll tested lines and their poll tested lists of policies that work well. And I think one thing that I've learned, from the Trump years and from the Obama years, is if you want people to pay attention to politics, to be engaged in politics, and to fight for the country that I think we know that we are better of that, sorry, if you want people to fight for the country

that we believe in, that you have to do more than that. You have to like say what you actually believe. Also, sometimes you have to pass the civil rights, You have to pass the civil rights act. And sometimes you might lose the South forever. You have to pass Civil Rights Act, but even think, like, I mean like said. Think of what it took to get. So, John, I mean, Johnson should be that example.

That's what you were reminding me of. It's like, I'm not going to get reelected, you know? And it's not fair, because I killed the guy from before and like, no, that is, that is not true. George Bush's dad did that. Okay, but, but, okay. No, no, but like Johnson, you know, he made a massive sacrifice for, for the party and for his own political career. To do something that was right.

And it took 10 years of people marching in the streets, getting the shit beat out of them, dying, and also leaders like Martin Luther King, who spoke in a way that was not just political, but like spiritual and moral, about the country's, like, best ideals that we have never reached, but they're out there. Yeah.

And we need leaders who are going to, to speak like that again in like moral and spiritual terms about I mean look this this is a country that like was founded on the most radical idea in history not that everyone's created equal yeah not fucking not fucking wasn't that and like you've got to have that like set of values that you speak about you get to tell a story about the country about what it's been in its best what it is at its worst and like where it needs to go and you have and And that story has to be told over and over again. And it has to be told with confidence.

And it has to be told without some kind of a fear that people are going to attack you or yell at you over it. And I just think that's the kind of, those are the kind of leaders we need in the party right now. And I worry that people are thinking too small right now, not just from a policy perspective, but in a rhetorical perspective. Like what is the story you're going to tell about where this country needs to go? And past Trump, we've now dealt with Trump for 10 years. heard about Trump enough. Like, we don't need a whole primary in 2028 that's all about Donald Trump.

There was a lot of George Bush when we ran in 2008, but like, we didn't spend a ton of time in every speech talking about George Bush, because everyone was like, George Bush is done. It's been two terms. We know that he f***ed up the country. And now we're going to talk about what's next. And I do hope that as we start getting towards 2026, 27, and 28, more Democrats are talking about, like, where they want to take this country. Would you like me? Obama. What's that? Would you like me?

Yeah, he would like you. No, shut up, like. He likes jokes? He does like jokes. Yeah. Have you ever told him that Kendrick Lamar isn't that good? You should stop putting it on the list? I've never told him that now.

I wonder, yeah, have you heard future? It's a way better. It's the society, the institution's society. Come on, dude, it's not smart. It's a freshman year. As a writer, you can admit, it's a little bit showing, not telling, or telling not showing. A little bit. Yeah, yeah. You're just saying the society, the institution of the societize. You're not showing an image.

You're not painted. Oh, come on, dude. You're more of a Drake guy. Yeah, me and Obama are. Obama just can't admit it because he's Canadian. And he's anti-Semitic. Has Obama ever sent you a selfie? No, he's never seen a selfie. Have you sent him one? No. You definitely. Can you, why don't you just send him your first set? Just say, I, really. I realize I never said you on something before. It's crazy. Hey boss.

You still think he's your boss? He's his boss for life? You know. Yeah. If he needs something, I'm always, you know, he needs help with something. I was like, sure, yeah, absolutely. Sir? You're like, drop a baby.

You're like, what? He just, can we face on Obama? Just real quick. Joe G's favorite president is Obama. Joe G's his 26-year-old boy from Los Los Angeles, California. And his favorite president is Obama. And he wants to.

Who wants to face down? And he's dying. He has a terminal illness. Shut up. Judge, he's very sick. And this is his life. All right. Thanks, hello.