The Adam Friedland Show (Cumtown) - MJ Lenderman CALLS OUT Cameron Winter (not clickbait)

Episode Date: February 11, 2026

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How you gonna make your way in the world when you weren't cut out for working and your fingers are slender and frail? How are you gonna get around this sleazy bedroom town? if you don't play yourself up for sale where are you gonna go with your scarves and your miracles drugs and wine and flattering light you must try again till you get it right

maybe I'll end up with someone different every night don't too they'd with you maybe I would too Tell me how you're gonna make you Weren't cut out for working And you just can't concentrate And you oh

You said you were an actor Well I believe you are But I thought you would be a star So I drank up all our money With these funnies in this Hollywood bar With these friends of mine in this Hollywood bar Loneliness and frustration

I have both calmed down with an acute case And the lights came up at two And I caught a glimpse of you and your face looked like something death brought with him in a suitcase. Oh, your pretty face looks so wasted. Another pretty face. French inhaler stamped and mailer. Welcome to a very special episode of the Adam Freedline Show.

Guys, it's me, Adam. Real quick, before we jump in, low-ticket warning. February 19th of the 21st, Helium Comedy Club, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I will be there. In addition, I'll be in Portland next month, March 27th to the 29th, and Los Angeles, May 9th. They added a second show at the Regent Theater. There's a link in the description for tickets. And as you have seen already, my guest this week is singer-songwriter MJ Lenderman. Give it up for him, guys.

MJ actually performed two songs for us in the studio, and the full performance will be released on Friday, February 3rd. Friday the 13th. What are we doing? Oh, you already wrote this? Yeah, keep reading it. Way to tick. Friday the 13th. Scream at top of the lungs?

So, no, I'm just kidding. It's not scary. We're going to be releasing more live performances with great musicians. We've recorded a couple of them already. How many, Thomas? Two, three, three others. Some of them will be longer episodes of the Adam Friedland show. Some of them will be.

shorter just performances and then five minute interviews guys it's gonna be great it's taps unpluged look at the fucking logo it's taps unplugged for the full mj lenderman performance stick around friday the 13th it's not scary it's coming out and there are more exciting guests uh to come including rap we had a rap we had a rap on friday yeah yeah so guys please enjoy my interview with M.J. Lenderman. It's really good. He looks like a young David Letterman. All right.

Guys, I don't like I make all the guests do walkouts and it's actually very, I don't like it. Oh, Zach, thank you. Can you guys get this stuff out of here? Well, yeah. Hi, what up, twin? That was a great performance.

Give it up for Jake, guys. When we've had rappers on the show, I get Don Hooley for them and I wanted to pay tribute. Thank you. So it's not, this is the most expensive one, just so you know. Wait, I don't know how to open this. What do you mean you don't know how to open? I don't know, I feel like there's probably some sort of...

You're not a rapper, obviously. Have you chilled with rappers since you... Just my middle school basketball coach, Rolla Green. Rolla Green. I made beats for him. You made beats for you... Wait, did you have to call him coach rolling green? No, he had a normal name as a coach.

name as a coach what was it coach Scott that's pretty cool but here you go tribute to you thank you welcome to the show we we had the other young buck in the in the studio he watched you would that be Cameron did do you can't you said he was taller than you he's literally one inch taller than you no he's not yeah two feet taller than me what are you talking about oh this is like I was standing up here dude when we saw the young bucks and then we saw we saw we saw my friend Riley and it was like I was at a dog park and you guys were all smelling each other's but you're all peeing in different corners yeah it was

definitely like it was like the don't look back Donovan Bob Dylan battle you've seen that right of course yeah I'm forgetting though Bob is like Donovan's like playing a really beautiful song you can just see him like not like he just wants to like defeat he wants to destroy and he's like he's he's like antsy and then he takes the guitar that's why Cameron just left yeah yeah you just You just don't look back to him. Yeah. He peed in the corner.

Have you met any of your goats yet since you've become a rocker? Yeah. I mean, the truckers. That was your favorite bang growing up. Yeah. Dinosaur Jr. Oh, sick. Rayleigh's boys with them too.

Give it up for Riley. You went on a tour with them, no? Yeah, a long time ago. All right. All right. It's cool that kids are in bands again. We had a millennial conversation with all the millennials and we're like, I think that there's never going to be another band.

And now you guys are all like, I mean, it's really nice that kids like Neil again and stuff. Kids like Neil? You like you? Oh, yeah. Baby bros like Neil. I was like he's pretty old. You don't like Neil Young as a guy? No, no.

I have the Nile Young archives app on my phone. Oh, sick. Well, because he's off of. Spotify because Joe Rogan podcast? He's back on Spotify. I bought it while he was off of Spotify and then he went back on. He made peace with writing. So I'm a little mad at him for that, but.

How much was the archives app? I don't remember. It's $10 a year, maybe. I mean, $10 a year? Maybe a month. A month? That's like Netflix money. No, I think it's a year.

It was really nice of him that he became an American citizen so he could vote for Bernie. I thought that was a really sweet thing of him. I don't remember if you, I don't remember if you, I don't know. I don't know if you know that. I don't know if you're old enough to know Bernie. You're right for president in 2020 and 2016. He's this Jewish guy. Bernie?

Yeah, yeah. Oh, you know him. Like you're an old soul. Bernie Sanders. Yeah, Bernie Sanders. You grew up Catholic in North, in Asheville, North Carolina. Yeah? You were an altar boy.

What did you have to do for that? You had to swing the incense? Well, you start as the. You step back in the game? Yeah, yeah, yeah. An acolyte. I think acolyte. I think Acolyte, maybe no book bearer is the first one.

You bring the books up to the priest. And that's like a little boy. That's the young buck. Young bull. And then you got the Acolyte, that's Big Bro. And then the cross bearer, that's when you're... You worked your way up to cross? Yeah.

I also have one of the best altar servers of all time. You didn't drop that shit once? No, but I did put it on sideways. You put the cross upside down? Sideways. Oh, okay. Because it was like a square base, and I put it down, and then I sat down. the cross was facing me oh my god you watch club shannon club shay shay yeah yeah this is club

shay that's what this feels like we're drinking yak right now are you you this is going to be like the um the cat williams episode yeah you're gonna tell us about all the freakoffs you've been to yeah you're gonna tell us about did they make you put on the dress Adam. I'm sorry, dude. There have been allegations that Jay Mascis from Dinosaur Jr. has been putting boys like you undress. I don't think we should be talking about that publicly.

Are you hyped that there's American Pope? An American Pope? Yeah. What do you talk? I'm not even Catholic. I'm hyped on it. It's good for America, dude. Yeah.

I think it's more exciting that he's from Chicago for some reason. Yeah. Sufion. Yeah. Do you think he's ever listened to Chief Keefe? The Pope. Yeah, the Pope. Certainly.

Most certainly. Not, I mean, maybe not intentionally, but... Definitely out of a car. He's been like, yeah... Don't like... No, the Pope is cool. We like him. What's his...

Leo? Yeah, what is his old name, though? Uh... Chris? Chris? No, no. You changed your name to MJ? No.

No. Your name's Jake. My middle name's Jacob. middle name's Jacob oh what you were afraid of your first name Mohammed sorry it's the most common name in the world mark mark Jacob oh that's kind of fire that but yeah yeah when I started releasing music on the internet when I was in high school uh-huh I thought Jake would just didn't sound good yeah sound like a jock Jake Lenderman yeah no it sounds like a kid that definitely has like one thing on the wall it is pulp fiction poster

Yeah, that's all, yeah. That's my house, dude. He works at Goldman, yeah. Yeah, and he's doing like, he's doing Vyvance and watching NFL Red Zone. Yeah. That's the Jake Lenderman look. Yeah. I don't know.

You think Sheney O'Connor would have been a good Pope, though? She was mad at the Pope. Yeah, I think she was, she probably mad at the right things. It was a, it was child abuse or abortion? Either or. Something like that. Have you played in Ireland yet? Yeah.

It's the best. country I was telling a story on stage when we played in Ireland and I was talking about the plane ride over there and I said I was sitting around a bunch of slags I didn't know what that meant it's sluts yeah it means hose yeah I thought it meant something else what did you think about just like a bunch of you thought it was a racial slur no what did you think slag I thought it was like just like like like a lazy person hooligans you know like oh no no because these guys were that's geeseers they were drinking at like 10 a.m. It's a bunch of

kids, they were going from Manchester to Ireland, and my bass player was asleep on the plane, and one of them was just like, you smacked him in the head on the plane. As a bit? Yeah, he said, you good man? He smacked him? Because he was sleeping? Yeah, because he was asleep on a plane. He doesn't know what his sleep is, baby. And this dude was drunk as hell.

Your great-grandfather was a jazz guy? Yeah. Was it, you never met, Unk? No, that's OG. O-G, yeah. We never met this. He passed away before I was born. Was he like living hard kind of jazz guy?

He was like Harron kind of style? No. Yeah. He played for that with the drums guy. What's his name? Gene Krupa. Yeah. It's cool that you could be a band leader and do drums.

Yeah. Like, dude, went. Come on, dude. Is this bad attitude wrong? Before we hit play, he was like, oh my God, I'm so excited to do this shit. You were like talking a mile a minute, and then we hit play, and you're like, I'm fucking, fuck this. B-2s. I got the red light fever. No, I know. That's why you want this, this, right?

Yeah. Listen me up. We'll listen you up. I don't know, like it sounds to me like you grew up in a family where like they were very supportive. Did they go to gigs? Our sons wouldn't start till like 11 p.m. because we're playing it. You're playing like after your mom's bedtime? Yeah, yeah. But they were always very cool like, uh, they never, they never told me not to play a show or something. Did your mom criticize like what you were wearing? She's like, you could wear something a little nicer? That's what my mom said. said to me about stand-up. Yeah, I remember going to school one morning. She was like, you look like you just got your hair wet. They don't know that that's cool.

I was like, yeah, I just took a shower. Oh, she's an idiot, your mom? No. Your mom's an idiot? I, she wants the best for me. Are you going to be one that keeps it real? You're going to be a North Carolina boy for life? I think so.

No, you saw my, I was wearing that coat last night. You were like. I did see the coat. That was tempting. We got dinner last night, and I had a really nice coat. You kept telling me, I was thinking about it on the drive over here. I was like, the way you were telling me, like, you got to get, you got to get another coat. I was like, I was getting self-conscious.

I was in criticizing your coat. You think my coat's not. No, I was saying you got to move to New York and get a coat, like a Don Draper-style coat. But that's during, like, your troubled period after the divorce. That's during your. I got to get married first. You got to get a, you're going to have a motorcycle phase. you're gonna have all motorcycle you're gonna have a Christian phase again yeah you're gonna

go back to Christ yeah then you're gonna have a reggae phase infidel style yeah yeah yeah you'll make a song called Heil Hitler and then you'll uh no I'm just kidding just kidding I really um somebody somebody just did that though yeah but like that's a phase I've read when I when I when that song came out I was like it's this phase all right that this will wear off everybody was like the song's actually good did you see Kanye the saw no the suck my cousin's dick was really good but he should have done it the he should wait can I be real he he should have done it the other way right reverse I think he should have done H-H and then everyone's like fuck this guy's an asshole and then fallen it up with suck my cousin's

dick and then that would have really said it over the over the top yeah and then because that kind of wraps everything up and explains maybe some trauma that he's I mean, it's clear that he's having like a psychotic break, right? Like, I don't think that Kanye was convincing anyone to either H-H or suck their cousin's sticks. No. I don't think that that was a winning message. I think it just seemed like a guy was having a tough time. For me, I used to get a CD, right, like at the mall, and I'd listen for like a month, right?

And then for you guys, you had Spotify probably. You could, like, listen to any song. And I wonder if that, like, because to me, it's like that either makes music way better because you could listen to anything or it makes it like like the kids don't have as much of a focus or something. Yeah, I think focus is totally gone, but I'm thankful that I had the resources to listen to whatever I wanted to at any time. Yeah, we used to have to like burn each other CDs. I burned some CDs. Yeah. I burned me and my dad a mix from when we were going to basketball tournaments. Geez, you're obsessed with your dad, dude. I put this M&M song on there.

Which track? The one from Relapse with like the Aerosmith sample. Can you go bar for bar? No. Oh, that's, you're a big amp fan? I was, I was the Eminem kid in school. Really? I was awesome.

He was my iPod background. Dude, what was your, what was your first Eminem album? I think when Not Afraid came out, that was, that was like, that was my, I knew who he was, but and then I got, like, and then I dug deep, and then I heard, like, a song like Kim on Marshall Mathers LP and I was like, this is terrifying. I was listening to that in sixth grade. Same. Yeah. I was listening to a song about a man killing his wife and putting her

in his trunk. It was just so scared of it, but it was like got obsessed. Yeah, yeah. Do you think that comedy music is good or bad? Do you think funny songs are good? I think so. Because in the comedy

community, it's looked down upon, but I happen to love funny songs. Yeah, it's weird. I don't think anybody really knows what to do with it. It's like not, for me, it's listened to it. People like music that uses humor, but they don't like it the other way around. Your lyrics are, your lyrics have humor in them, would you say? Hopefully, to me.

Yeah. Do you feel like you've gotten better at writing the lyrics? Since you've, I mean, you've done four full albums already. The first song I ever wrote was called Nightmare. Sick. What was it about? I guess it was about a nightmare. That's sick.

But my guitar teacher hated it. I showed it to him. He ripped it to shreds. He's like, this doesn't make any sense. Isn't it embarrassing that you wrote that? How old were you when you wrote Nightmare? 14. And Metallica is still writing those kind of songs.

Right? About like, inter- Rifts are heavier, though. Yeah. And they have a lot of money. When do you feel like you kind of like popped for the first time? Was that in the last, like, three years? Yeah.

Yeah. Like, what was the moment where you're like, oh, shit, it's going good. Oh, yeah. I mean, that keeps happening in a way that's like I... What was the moment where you realized people knew who you were? And, like, how did you deal with that? Because it's obviously, like, stressful situation. During, like, COVID, people were talking about online a lot.

Yeah. And once we started playing shows again, the crowds were bigger. Yeah. I guess. And then, but especially, like, my record, both songs came out in April 22. Yeah. And then by the end of the...

It got put on a bunch of lists. And then I started noticing a lot of talk about it. Yeah. And now you have to go to GQ Man of the Year. Yeah. But I... Yeah, that was weird. I'd stopped using socials.

But I do... You can't... Don't look... Lirk on Twitter. Just... for Fuentes clips yeah yeah YouTube shorts

YouTube shorts is fun yeah my my Instagram Reels algorithm is the only safe place for me on the internet it's the only place where it's not scary Twitter my Twitter algo has gone haywire dude yeah it's scary not good yeah there was like I

there was like killings for a while and then so but shorts is still just funny or reels. Reels is funny. It's still people saying things the wrong way. It's still people falling over. The internet used to be funny.

Yeah. Yeah. Now it's scary. Now it's just like slur, M.J. Lenderman's song. Nick Flint. Geese. Exactly.

Yeah. I'm not saying those are all the same kind of thing. I'm just saying it's just, this is what people are talking about. This is what people are talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, It's made a huge difference so to not be looking at that as much. I mean, it just doesn't matter, dude. I mean, at the end of the day, you just want to make tracks, right? Yeah, yeah. It's like, and that just gets in the way. It's a distraction. It doesn't matter even what people, like, the people think, really.

You just, like, as long as, like, have you ever felt good after, like, like, finishing a song? Every time it feels awesome to finish a song. And then sometimes within the next couple days, it's like, oh, I know, it wasn't that good. Right. Like you look, I feel like everything I've ever done, I look back on it, I'm like, I would change that, I would change that, I would change that, I would change that, right? Yeah, but I think it's cooler to just move forward and... You have to just forget about it. Forget it. Yeah, yeah. The worst part is like you get really excited at the beginning and you're like, this is going to be awesome. And then you try it and you're like, I am a fucking loser. I have no talent. And you fight against it and you just drop, you just end a project and you put it out and you forget about it.

It's the best way to work, honestly. You figuring that out now is huge. Yeah, I mean, there's plenty of things that I've released that I don't love, but it's cooler to just move forward. Get better every time. You get better every time. Right. Yeah.

Yeah, if you're just trapped up, super concerned with only putting out things that are genius, then you'll never put anything out. Also, you suck, too. And you suck at music. If anyone finishes something and they're like, this is amazing, then they suck. No one, like, the only way you get, what I found is like in the middle stage, right, with the stage from like, this is so exciting to whatever the fuck, just put it out. The middle stage is like the gym.

That's like the reps. They hate, it's the reps, right? It's like, I hate myself. I hate the song. I suck. But, like, fighting through it is like kind of the part. where you get better yeah yeah yeah that's putting up shots yeah putting up some shots a little bit of discipline what's your reading some books maybe what's your three point uh percentage empty

empty dude isn't it crazy that league is like if they're empty gym it's kind of like 80 they're so good at basketball yeah my biggest basketball game i ever played yeah at 10 threes 10 3s 10 You were a sniper? I was a sniper, dude. Really? What grade was that? Seventh. Seventh grade, 10 threes?

So you were strong enough not to, like, from your chest? You had form? I had form. Dude, have you ever linked with Steph? He's North Carolina? Oh, yeah, he went to Davidson. Davidson. He loves Paramore, I just learned.

Dude, have you seen that clip of him at the fucking Benson Boone concert wearing the fucking, wearing the hat? No. I have a theory on the NBA, which is the fact that a LeBron LeBron is so bad at any type of like trying to be cool thing has completely like shielded Steph from any type of like scrutiny. Like Steph has been like a genius player in an era where there was another genius player and he's been protected. Yeah, all their energies put into being good at basketball. They don't have any skills at anything else.

I just know that LeBron's like team is like we will be doing creative on this and it's always just a fucking brick. It's like the Hennessy thing you saw, right? Was that when he said he was going to make an announcement? Yeah. Everybody thought he was going to retire. And it was all on October 7th. It said, I'm making an announcement October 7th, 2025. And it was an ad for Hennessy.

Did the girls leave? One for me. Thank God. Okay. Okay. Dude, we've never had so many girls in here before. I know. Yeah.

Zach brought him all. The last girl here was Mia Khalifa. All right. I was telling you last night, You should get it in an indie rock pickup game. I think you're dapping me. Oh. Yeah.

We can dapp later. I wonder who would be in the indie rock pickup game. Thurston Moore? He's tall as far. He's tall as foot. He's probably not very good, though. No, he's definitely trashed at all. There's a lot of tall guys out there.

You're obsessed with other guys' heights that are... No, you said that Cameron was way taller than you. He was one inch taller. You don't think he's a taller? You're already 6'3, dude. I'm not 6'3? What are you? 6-2?

I don't know. My license says I'm 5-11. My license says I'm 6-3. Really? Because I'm trying to impress bouncers. Just don't look. Just look at this. Tracking expenses can make one feel bad about past spending.

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Use offer code TAFS to save 10% off your first purchase of your first purchase of your first purchase of of a website or a domain. That's Squarespace.com slash TAFS for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code TIFS to get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Do girls try to get with you because you're a rock star? No?

I don't know. I stay at home a lot. You stay at home. Are you scared of girls? Is it kind of like a hard day's night situation? I have three sister. My life is ruled by women. Yeah, yeah.

They stress you out. Sometimes. But and they tell you you can't get any girlfriends? They'd say, I can't have girlfriends. I wonder what it's like. It's hard adding a fourth to the fold. Zach, our friend over here, he told me that girls learned the words to his songs at his gig.

Oh, Zach. That's kind of hard. Was there a moment where you realized that the kids knew the words? Yeah, because they're so fucking loud. Like, sometimes it'll be like, they want to be heard. And it's like, I'm trying to sing a song. And I start forgetting the words. I'm like, they're distracting me.

They're being lame for knowing the words. It's cool that people are that committed. Are they annoying? Sometimes. Yeah, they're fucking, yeah. What's the most annoying? This guy was in, uh, in, uh, he was at like three shows in a row, and he kept telling me to take my shoes off.

He said, let me see those feet. No, maybe he was from the website Wiki feet, though. Maybe he's trying to snap some photos for Wiki feet. Yeah, yeah. He's like, I'm trying, I'm a thorough guy. I need the Lenderman's feet. Yeah. After night three of doing that, I was like, who is saying this? And I look at the guy, he's wearing every piece of merch that I have.

To the show? Yeah. That is the worst love. And then once I called him out, he got embarrassed. What did you say to make him feel embarrassed? I said, stop it. From the stage? Off mic.

I was being nice. Did you kick him in the head with your shoe? Josh homey style? Yeah, you're like, I love these shoes. No. So what relationship did COVID have to your career? Like, you were touring and they cut it out? Yeah, but then I was like working at an ice cream store.

So through working there, I got unemployment. And I started making more money than I ever made in my life. Yeah, no, it happened a lot of friends of it was. It was the most prolific period of time for me because we had a really, really fortunate living situation too. Where you had a nice place? Over by the Creekside Tap House that your boy works at? Yeah, yeah.

My boy's brother, I didn't know he had a brother for a while. Yeah, so you guys wrote a ton of music. Yeah, it was like the only, it was a weird, like, view of adulthood, because I turned 21 right before that happened, and then now I have all this free time and more money than I've ever had. Yeah, and just time to actually focus on making stuff, and it was pretty prolific time, but then... Do you feel like you got better?

Definitely within that time. That's the best I had felt about, like, making things, But once Torin came back, I started being like, what am I going to have, you know, another brain? Two years off again. Dude, wouldn't it be nice, dude? Yeah. Wuhan, dude. I mean, I feel like I would do it better this time.

It sounds like you did it great. Oh, yeah, I mean, for the parts of it. Yeah, I painted a lot, too. I painted, yeah. How was your painting? It was fine. It was nice for the brain, though. I think it was getting ideas while I was painting.

I would listen to, I had an archive of Howard's. I got obsessed with Howard Stern. Yeah, yeah. Lent Biscuit guitar auditions. Beetlejuice comes in completely naked. He's like, this is my guitar right here. We were talking yesterday about Beetle Juice, the Obama phone call. With what Beatles just says he does Obama, they get some guy calls it as Obama.

Do you have goals in being like a musician? Is there like a thing that like you're like next time I'm going to do this? this? Like what keeps you like motivated? Just writing stuff I guess. You want to get better? Yeah, I want to get better. It's the happiest I am is when I make music, but I've achieved all my goals. Really? I just have to make new ones, I guess, but maybe they're unrelated to music. I think you just need to just keep making tracks. The best guys are the guys that can't make tracks. I just want to keep making music that I'm happy about. I don't want to lose. I think it's easy to get successful and then start making bad music.

What is like the currency that matters the most? Is it like approval of your peers? Is it like? That does mean a lot to me. If a comedian says good set that I like, I'm like, that feels good. Yeah, that means a lot to me. My own validation from myself. Yeah, but you hate all yourself, right?

Yeah, yeah. That means you're good. That's why you're good. It definitely means more with peers that I respect. Yeah. With someone that is ahead and they know. Because the guys that, the guys that are telling you to take your shoes off. It's like, why don't you make a fucking track, dude?

Yeah. Yeah, I'm like. And that guy. What is to say about me that this guy worships my music? And that guy was Brian Eno. And that guy was, I really, I'm a big fan. I really appreciate you coming on. Thank you.

Yeah, yeah, you too. You have to do stuff like this and you, it's really, I'm not very practiced. I'm sorry. No, it sucks for you. You shouldn't have to To do these things? Yeah, who's your... Well, this is one that I was excited for

because I watched the show. I know, but you're like, you like, you like, Adam's gonna be hating on my ass? No. I talked to you on the phone before this. We talked for an hour on the phone. And then more. About what are we talking about?

I forgot what we were talking about. Oh, yeah, we talked about Red Bar. He's a big fan. Big fan. Shout out to Mike David. Thank you, MJ Lenderman. Thank you for someone on. Bye!

Okay, you have to go to the airport. I guess so, yeah. I haven't called it.