The Adam Friedland Show (Cumtown) - SEAN AVERY Talks NHL Fights, Trash Talk, Christopher Nolan

Episode Date: March 20, 2026

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Do you think you've fought more guys or f***ed had sex with more girls in your life? Oh, God. That's a wild question. I don't know. Just think about it. Or are you not a notch on the bedpost kind of guy? I think just just I mean, I, listen, we all had fun. We all had fun.

I did a lot of fucking and a lot of fighting. Yeah. If I could be honest with you, yes. I wonder what the number is. I wonder what the number is on the spreadsheet. Oh, God. Welcome back to the Adam Friedland Show. I'm Adam Friedland.

My guest this week is former NHL player Sean Avery. Hockey puck is my favorite think. I like the way they skate up and down the rink. He's here to promote his new book, Summer Skate, which came out in September of 2025. As always, I'm Adam Friedland, signing off. I love Thomas Eisenman. No pressure, Friedman.

Shut the fuck up. Is Friedland, okay? Anti-Samabitant. Welcome to the stage. Coming up next, Sean Avery, 13-year veteran of the NHL actor, model. Oh, fuck. Sex man. Jesus.

We're off to a hot start. First of all, I'm not a model. And I've never modeled. You're a top model. No, I'm not. I modeled once, I modeled once, yeah, for a French brand, the coupels. Oh, I love the cupels. Yeah, I was like in the store window.

On Mercer? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I took a picture in front of it. Of course. Yeah, yeah. I don't know why. I think it was some sort of prank. Oh, oh.

I don't know, why did they ask me? No, they were using. They used regular people, like the gap. I wouldn't say regular. I say, you know, public intellectuals, celebrity. I've been watching too many highlights. Really? Yeah.

I'm like catching up on the NHL from like, I'd say probably 11th grade and I'm 38 and now I'm like locked in. 11th grade. I want to catch our audience up on like kind of what your profile was because it's fascinating to me. And if I was good at fighting and sports and ice skating, I would be you. Yeah. Tell me if I'm describing this correctly. Your position was basically to wind up kind of the best player on the other team. and make him lose his focus and lose his head.

Essentially, yes. Yeah. That's what I found fascinating about it. Because like it's a sport, like any other sport, there's an aspect of violence, which is be wokeed out of the league right now. But there is this aspect of like kind of the mental chess game. And in a team sport like that, it's like you kind of don't see that in other, like, you see a pitching duel maybe, but like you don't really see someone like you who's like a guy,

in the depth chart who you bring out and he's like he's going to make Sidney Crosby cry yeah basically yeah I think it's funny I've never really thought about it like this but like think about it as like an organized crime family so and I'll use Yarmier Yager as as an example he's the godfather right and at some point during a game the godfather the godfather's going look down at the end of the bench at me so it's not coming from Tororella it's not coming for the coach no no and and really what it it always came for me because I was uncontrollable but you guys pool the the fine oh yeah sometimes that's so sick

that's that's illegal for me to tell you that that we would say actively in the dressing room like okay somebody go and fucking kill Matt cook yeah and the boys will put the money on the board he had it coming he did yeah yeah You know, he married. This is interesting. In junior, when we're younger. Yeah. Like 15 to 20, we play in this, the Canadian Hockey League.

Yeah. You moved away from home. You cooked. You moved away from home. I was good. You were good. Yeah. I was watching highlights.

Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. You move away from home and you live with a local family. Yeah. Matt Cook married. The mom. The mom. No shit.

The family that he moved in with. Wait, he sold the mom? Well, yeah. Yeah, so, all right. Essentially, basically, my role was to shift the momentum. If we were going in and playing a team on the road, and it was a tough building to play in, usually, like, you know, collectively guys were,

like Montreal on a Saturday night is a tough building to play in. Yeah. And I always knew that. And I would go in and I would basically try and put a fucking giant target on my back by spewing vaults. at everyone that I could from from warm up yeah till the start of the puck yeah drop and then because my idea was the guys are a little we got to weather the storm in Montreal the first five minutes ten minutes they come hard I got

to make sure that bring it all on me yeah bring it all on me and let everybody be comfortable and I want yogs to have space and whoever else so that and then at some point during the game maybe we're going to be in a tight game, maybe we're going to be losing and we need a little, you know what I mean? Yeah, I know. You send me out there and... So sick.

I'm going to try and change the momentum. I'm going to hopefully draw a penalty, which is going to put our team on the power play. Or I'm going to fucking make somebody go crazy and the goalie's going to leave the net and whatever. So your parents were teachers. Yeah. So why are you bad? So the first time my mom got called by the school and it was in grade one

and I have a five-year-old who's going into kindergarten next year so I have an idea of what like grade one is now she got a call from the principal saying so Sean we have a we have a deaf kid in Sean's class and he doesn't believe he's deaf so he's been yelling in his ear all afternoon That's early for a grade, for grade one, that's early to kind of go in that hard.

It's kind of a, you had a hypothesis and you did an experiment, you know? Problem solving. And the kid was lying for attention. No. But like hockey is like for us, when we think Canada, then we think that's your sport. National sport, yes. And it is the opposite of what the stereotype is of a Canadian, right? Of like a nice guy, right?

And it is something that Canada could fuck up America at, right? Until the recent tournament, we almost had your asses. Yeah. The what is it, the Tri-Wizard Tournament or whatever. Yeah, yeah, the Three Nations or the Four Nations Cup. Yeah. I feel like that brought hockey back a little bit. Yeah, I mean, my idea of that was because essentially the Kachuk boys,

whose dad, they call him Big Walt, Keith Kachuk, a great American player, but he played with so many Canadians. Yeah. That I think by default, the boys are almost more Canadian than they are American. But what they're doing is now they're changing the culture of American hockey. So like what's the what's the hang, right? So you're, it's like in the MLB, right, you have like you have like MAGA farm boys and then you have like passionate Latin men. And I guess now you have like Japanese guys with gambling debt.

But like you guys have Russians, you have like Scandinavians. And then you have like, also you guys have like French Canadians and then Canadians. Which are two different things. Are Americans and Anglo Canadians? Is that kind of more of a group or is it like in a locker room? No, no, no, no, no. No, no. You see someone as American in a locker room?

Yeah, no. Well, no, we see guys as Western leaguers. Because Western leaguers, they don't like the hard stuff. They'll just drink like 80 beers. Yeah. And guys from the Ontario League, they like to mix in. They like to get the fireballs. So it's sort of like a regional thing where, and American guys mostly went to college.

Oh, yeah. And none of us went to college. Did you, the last school you went to was like 16? before that I think might even a little bit earlier yeah yeah 16 yeah and then you started playing juniors and that's when I started playing juniors and that's you know when you move away from home you move in with this family some guys fall in love some guys I just I just went to work I shot Pucks I didn't want to go to school the rink was open I said what do you mean this is our arena and the ice

is there and we you're not renting it yeah and I so I think like Early on, I was one of the, I was just like, I'm not, I'm going to go shoot pox. You wanted to work. I wanted to work. Yeah. So what are the Russian guys like? Russian guys are incredible. Do you guys hang with him?

New money, baby. Yeah, yeah. It's so fun. It's so fun. It's so fun. And I played with sort of both generations because when I got to Detroit. Federov. We had Sergei, we had Federov, Larry Onov.

We had Dot Suk. Yeah. We had a lot of great Russians. Sergey was first generation and second generation because he played for so long. And he kind of, he's the epitome of like a Russian coming to America. He's the original Miami Russian. Yeah, yeah. He went to Miami.

He falls in love with Anna Kornikova. He goes on that run. But that, so Russians, we like Eastern Europeans. We like Swedes. because Swedes are the most similar to Canadians. And the Finns don't fuck with each other. They don't like each other. And the Finns are the worst drinkers ever.

What's the serious type with the fins? Are they like just like monsters? Yeah, you're like, dumb monsters. Look at UC over there. What's he thinking about? And then he gets drunk and you know everything that he's ever thought in a matter of an hour. And the Swedes are like handsome legends. They're just like.

They're good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's why Canadians are drawn to them because they're very similar to us. What about America? Do you? We're more like, you know, I didn't I didn't meet a Jew until I came to America. Right now? Until you said. I mean, Montreal is very Jewish city. Right, but I grew up in Toronto. Ontario has one part. Now all my closest friends are from there.

Yeah. But growing up, I didn't know. But when I got to Detroit, Michigan, University of Michigan, Bloomfield Hills. Bloomfield Hills. Okay. I know all the Jew cities.

Right. So that's how. I, I, uh, yeah, yeah. So that's kind of, that was, that was my introduction to that. But as far as the, uh, Scotty Bowman. Scotty. Scottie. He could be, no, he could be.

I could see him. Can we start that rumor? Yeah. I could see it like he's got that little, he's kind of like. Hello boys. Yes. Yeah. So you were playing juniors.

You cooked, right? I was good, yeah. And your profile, was your profile similar to what it, like your game was similar to what it became in the NHL or did you emphasize certain elements to make it into the league? Because you were undrafted, correct? I was undrafted. So part of the reason was. because of how I was acting.

Because you're a prick. Playing, yes. And I still have a little bit of resentment towards Canadian hockey, who they have their own whole mess that they've been doing some things that they shouldn't have or whatever. Because they kept me off our national teams because they thought I was a bad teammate. Yeah. And I was just misunderstood. Wouldn't it have felt amazing?

Like, oh, Canada. To put that thing on? Would you have cried? The crest. So you get side to the wings, right, in the middle of a dynasty. Yep. I mean, that was like a fucking, and you're about to go to Detroit right now? I'm leaving here, going to Detroit for our centennial alumni weekend celebration.

I haven't seen some of these guys probably, I haven't seen Dominic Hasek in 15 years. Would you consider him to go? Or your old friend, Fatso? go Patrick Waugh, Broder, and I think Hasick. But then, like, I could say Terry Sauchuk, but like, I don't know. That was 80 years ago. I don't know. From what I understand, it's just a completely different game at this point. The skill level is much higher. Yeah. And like, it's sick. It's so good. They're so good at it. They're so good at ball. It's a very interesting. The evolution of like the last four years. Well, it's the McDonald's.

David kid. Yeah. Yeah. He's nasty. McJesus. He's so good. Yeah. Well, he's not good at the press like you were. No, but he's going to have to be because he's going to sign with the Rangers in two years. Really? And he's going to have to start talking shit like you? Are you going to like kind of bring him in baby brus style? You know, I've always thought that that would be the perfect job for me. Should we write for for McDavid? And or just everything. Yeah. Should we be like, everything? What he wears, how he, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got to help the transition. When you do fashion, I'll do, I'll do bits.

Okay. Yeah. I'm good. I got good bits. Oh, no, you're better, actually. For a hockey context, you're better. When you're in, like, a minor league team for, you know, the best team in the world. So, yeah.

How do you work your way up? So, okay, Detroit, 2002, I think the greatest hockey team ever on paper. Probably. And they actually, we actually won the Stanley Cup. I say we hesitantly because I didn't play in the playoffs, but I was on the team during the year. And I didn't play, I think I, if I had played two more games during the regular season, I would have my name on the cup. Whatever. This weekend, sneak you.

And just, and say, you know. Just get a tape and just write your name. Well, we rewrite history everywhere else. I know. Right? Lord Stanley wouldn't care. No. So Detroit 2002, I play one year in the minors in Cincinnati, but I'm lucky enough to play for a coach who's now essentially banned from the NHL.

This guy, Mike Babcock, was my minor coach. And he's a lunatic. He got kicked off a, I love him. He's one of my favorite people of all time. He got fired a couple of years ago before the season started because he made, all the guys on the team come in and he said, open your phone books, your camera. I want to see all the pictures that you have in your phone. Leave your phone with me and I'll give it back to you.

This is Joseph Stalin? And they fired him. He's brother with KGB. Which who would, I mean, of all the sports, okay, here's what I'm going to say. The hockey players would have the most fucked up pictures in their phones. Really? Yeah. What would like like what the like what it would just be so diverse.

Yeah. You know, it would be like a hand up a cow's ass like actually working and milking the cows Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And then it might be somebody having he might have a hand in his ass. I mean hockey players are wild. They are the wildest. I like the parallel reference.

Why would you want to? see that. So locker room talk. How many micros have you seen an NHL locker room? Oh God. So, so I mean it just wore off like that's, uh, but I, I know who the big, have you seen micros in a professional sports league, uh, yeah, there's a couple. Dude, good for them. Yeah. Honestly, what's he going to do? They busted their fucking asses usually. Give it up for them. Actually. Yeah. Slovakians. Slovakians. teeny tiny.

Teeny tiny. That's what they say. That's what they say. Really? No, yeah. Yeah, really? Yeah. You would walk into the sauna or the steam room after practice, and my left winger would be shaving my right wingers back.

Really? So, you know, it just... That's a love of brotherhood. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And it just kind of wears off after a certain amount of time. Did you get rookie treatment?

Like, who, and did you have a vet? Like, how did those guys, like, who were, like, literally on technically the best hockey team? I learned from the best. How do they treat you? I learned from, like, the OGs. Guy like Brendan Shanahan told me a couple of things. He said, never take a yellow taxi and always have more than $400 in your pocket. Was he a Pimp?

Now, just ready. Yeah, he's just ready. And also, you know, the appearance of like... It sounds cool, though. You don't take a yellow taxi. You don't take it. No. Sounds about broke.

And it could sound cool, but we're going the other way. We're just going, we're going up here. A guy like Chris Cellios, I'll tell this story. What a legend. The first time I ever went out with Chelly and I was staying with him, I think, during training camp. And we went out, and it was Detroit. You know, there's not that much to do. Anyways, I think we were pulling onto his street,

and it was like 2.30, 2.30 a.m. And he pulls onto the street, and then he just pulls the car over to the side of the road. He used to drive like a 68 Cadillac, like an old school that sometimes wouldn't start. Yeah, it's so long. So he puts it in park, and when you crank those seats back, it's like Delta 1.

You like Delta? Lay flat. Yeah, lay flat. Dude, of course I'm a Delta boy. And I looked over. I was like, I didn't know what was going on. And he said, listen, life is all about setting precedence. Okay.

If I go home now before 3 a.m., the wife's going to think something's going on. If I come home after 3 a.m., like I always do, there's no questions asked. You don't disrupt the system. Wait, but... So isn't that an... Like, that's the level of commitment. Yeah. Is off the charts.

So he was going to think that he's getting pussy? I don't understand what he was... No, no, no, it wasn't about that. It wasn't... No, no, no. It was about... I'm sorry. It was about wives, hassle, husbands. Yeah. Like, what the hell are you doing out?

Right. And then you come home earlier. You've now set the precedent back. You could do that? Like, you should... should be home earlier. If you came home at 2.30 instead of three like you've been doing for and that's what she gets. Years. So that was sort of, I'm telling that because in all the different situations, different archetypes of guys on that team, they all had their own high level

operation that they were running. What are, are goalies like they're weird? They're crazy. So what's like they're like they're like baseball pitchers are like sociopaths. Break down the breakdown the So they wake up in the morning. Yeah. Right. Practices at 10.30. By 1040, they've probably had 700 hockey pucks shot off of them. Yeah. Off of their body for practice. Every day, every day, every game, twice a day on game days. They're like massacists. They're, yeah, maybe. Yeah. And they are they superstitious too? Oh, yeah. Yeah. They're like weird. Yeah. They're like weird. Yeah. Yeah, weirdos. Left skate on. Don't touch that. Don't walk through that door.

Don't look at that person. I put sour cream on my spaghetti. All kinds of weird shit. Yeah. Sour cream and ketchup. From what I understand, you bounced around. You were in LA. I didn't bounce around.

Well, you were the red wings. I played on three fucking teams. Four. Dallas doesn't count. That was a fun one. That was a little detour. A little detour. You got to throw out the first pitch at the Rangers game.

At a Rangers game. I saw that. And they all applauded. They were like, this is going to work out. And by the way, Brett Hall, who I'm going to see this weekend. Yeah. I mean, the greatest. You guys lived together, right?

Yeah, but he was the GM in Dallas. That's why I went. Did he cancel your contract? Well, no. He, well, essentially, yes. But his boss. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

From what I understand, like, you got to New York and there's like, you found a home in the NHO. Yeah. And, but like, the interesting thing about you is like, the way you talk about moving in New York is like, like, fucking Kerry Bradshaw. Like, it was, I was the, yeah, the sex in the city. You know, I- You, like, had a carry moment. Hold on a second.

What's up? Hold on a second. I don't even know if you know this. Has anyone ever walked off set while they were doing- What was that a guy? No, no. You know that I've written a romance novel. That's a best-selling hockey romance novel right now.

Really? Yeah, we're bidding, you know, we're going to option this thing's so fucking hot. This is about a New York Ranger rookie who spends the summer in the Hamptons with two of his former college teammates. They fucked their way through the entire hamps. And this is hardcore sex in there? Yes, bro. Oh, nice, dude. Can I have this?

Yes. You didn't know that I... Do you want to read a little... Do you want to read, like, read some of the steamyest... I'll read you the... No, you know what I'll do? You're literally Carrie. Yes.

You're writing fucking books. Here's the first chapter of my... It's three pages. Oh my God. Do you have a pillow? Of my romance novel. Durham, New Hampshire, two years ago. It's a snowy night in a town that is all activity and cheer,

even after a loss. The cobblestone streets are blanketed and white, and lined with twinkling Christmas trees. I have my red-cheeked girlfriend under my arm as we walk down the street, the tails of her scarf flying in the icy wind. We walk past a bar with its door open, and amateur band is playing Take Me Home Country Roads. It's 11.30 on a Saturday night,

and we're headed back to my apartment off campus. She's got my jacket on. We turn on to a street that's quiet. We hear only the sound of our boots on the sleeted pavement, the crunch of salt under our feet. Three big guys with beards walk towards us. Townies. Oh no.

They're drunk. One of them looks at her and asks, how does it feel to be with the biggest bitch on campus? Clearly, they watched me take that bad penalty at the end of the game. It costs my team to win. And while I can't erase the past, I can predict the future. I know exactly what's about to happen. Everything goes into slow motion.

I turn to my girlfriend very calmly and say, Don't ask any questions. Just turn around and walk home, okay? Right now. Go. I am clear. I am strategic. This is when I do my best computing in the eye of the storm. If I could choose to live in this space, I would. It's where I feel comfortable, serviceable on the team.

This is my role. I cause chaos for distraction, for intimidation, for the win. I've done it since I was a kid. Who did you just call a bitch, I say? Before he can answer, I smack one guy. open hand slap him across the jaw. He's down. I hit the second guy on the side of his head on his ear before his hands even come out of his pockets. He's down. The third guy is six feet away coming toward me. I take two hard steps and bury my shoulder into his belly button,

wrap my arms around his legs and pick him up off the ground, slam his head off the curb, bounce his head right off the concrete. He's out cold, bleeding from the ears. I sit down on the curb. I have blood on my hands, but they aren't shaking. At least there were three. It's easier to sell. I take out my phone, put my hand on one guy's chest to see if he's still breathing. I call the cops. Hi, my name is Carter Hughes. I play hockey for the University of New Hampshire. I just got attacked by three men on the corner of Summer Street in Maine. One of the guys is hurt badly. Send an ambulance and the police. I'll stick around until you get here. Wow, that's sexy. That's very romantic. I'm going to read. I haven't read a book since Harry Potter 8. I think I'm going to try to go back in on books.

And can I tell you, it's a dual perspective. So your girlfriend, your girlfriend can read it because they start fucking a lot in the book. She can't read. Oh, she can't, yeah, she can. Anyways, we have a female protagonist and a male, so the chapters bounce back and forth between Carter and his love interest. I like that narrative device. Yes.

Yeah. It's like rush. Oh, wait. That was fun, right? Ew, I love. I'm like hooked. Can we put it on the table, though? Yeah, let's put it on the table.

Well, just. Oh, yeah. It's fine. Great. So what's it like to fight you? So you guys are just wearing, you're wearing ice skates and you know how to fight wearing ice skates. Like, yeah. What a weird thing.

What a weird sport. It's the only sport where there's an aspect of fighting, but you're also on ice skates. Yeah, yeah. Did you guys fight, like, were the figure skating guys and the hockey guys? Was that like beef grown up in the rink? You know what's so funny? There's an old wives tale. Elvis Stoiko was a Canadian Olympian figure skater.

I think he was the first man to do five... The four? No, quad. A quad, yeah. A quad. I have been told that he roundhouse kicked Eric Lindross in a bar outside of Toronto in the Miskoka's in the summer. It was a good question.

Okay. Yeah. So that to me, I don't know. That's so sick. Yeah, be careful. Because they're actually like great athletes. Oh, dude. They're just wearing sequence.

Yeah. That's why it's a distraction. Yeah. They're also John Wick. Yeah. So, like, what's your, like, how many fights in your life have you think? What's your body count of fights? So, God, man.

Dude, I fought so many fucking delivery guys in New York City. I know. Am I adding, is that. You get really mad at them on your Instagram. I used to. I used to get really mad at them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you're not.

Lots of fights. When I was 12, I played in Nova Scotia for a few years. My dad got transferred. He worked for Sears, RIP Sears. Yeah. And we had a tournament on Prince Edward Island. You take the ferry. Anyways, we won the tournament, and we played against another team from Nova Scotia.

When we took the ferry back from PEI, they had to put me up in the captain's quarters of the ferry because the parents on the other team wanted to kill me. Parents? The parents of the players of the other team. We were 12. So you were a little fucking... I was bad. You're a bad boy.

Do your mom try to make you be good? You know, I once saw her at the bay. You know, the, it's our, it's our, the bay. You know the blankets, the three stripes, the Canadian heritage, the bay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She once spent four hours in a bay until they took her return.

She just wouldn't leave. Yeah. She just stayed there. Oh, so you got your shit from her. And that was a, was one of the, those like trauma tree moments maybe or or for the better yeah and that was when I knew yeah so then you just you dig in you saw her dealing with customer service yeah is that what you're saying yeah she was trying to return something they they were refusing to take it and she said to them I will

never leave yeah are you sure you're not Jewish I am I am you can't hire me for uh bought mitzvah wait do you think you've fought more guys or fucked sex with more girls in your life? Oh God, that's a wild question. I don't know, just think about it. Or are you not a notch on the bedpost kind of guy? I think just, just, I mean, I, I, listen, I, we all had fun. We all had fun.

I did a lot of fucking and a lot of fighting. Yeah. So cool. If I could be honest with you, yes. Yeah. I wonder what the number is. I wonder what the number is on the spreadsheet. Oh, God.

You should have, you should. Oh, God. Like, is it, like, is it nice to fight? You know what's so interesting is that... You, like, like it. I became... Were you on drugs? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. But I'm now a martial artist. I took up jujitsu three years ago, four years ago, maybe. And now, I don't want to fight ever. Because if you get too close to me and something pops off, I want to embrace you and choke and I want to choke the air out of you. Yeah. Whereas before I wanted to like use my fists and that was that was I was a man trying to find a way to cure his urges. Uh-huh.

You had a guy inside you. Yeah. And you had the problem is you get rewarded for it. in your game in our game yeah and the crowd goes and you and then you feel like God when they fight each other yes it's so cool and now they're woking it out of the league they're still they're still fighting we got to let the boys fight it's coming back is what's more dangerous like for a player it's dirty hints have to be more dangerous than a than a mono e yeah yeah absolutely you did a move which I this is why I'm like we're we're kind of the same

guy which is like the the notion is if a man squares up and you have to accept the challenge but you did the move because you were a wind-up guy where you'd be like what you know you be in a guy's ear and be like you fucking pussy you fucking bitch and then he'd like lose it and then you'd be like what I did what did I do you know which is in front of an entire stadium just like the

security inside of yourself to be able to be like to be able it's so Israel of you. It's just like, it's so like, so much. Benny? I mean, no, I mean, just like. I call him Benny. For you to, for you to like. Net Nahu. Oh, Netanyu. Yeah. I call him Benny. Oh, I call them a lot of names. Um. Hey guys. Caleb Pitts here. When hair starts to thin confidence can too. That's why Hymns makes it simple to feel like yourself again. Inspiring stuff. I plan on taking Hymns and looking like this in one year. For

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And this, let's go back to the first question. I said terrible. I said terrible shit. I did research. That's what I was going to say. Did you have compromise? Yes. Yes. How did,

I had a dossier. What depths did you go to to like find out anywhere? Really? Anywhere. You were like Roy Cohn? I was, I, God love, RIP Roy. One of the most insane American. What a man.

American, yes. American. Yeah, like, like you. What a fucking, come on, bro. By the way. Yeah, yeah. This is that. I wear it.

I only wear it. Yeah. Because Canada lost their identity. I don't even want to talk about it. I decided to fucking talk. Anyways, yes, I did my research, okay? So I would line up with so-and-so who, you know, I played junior against them. We're the same age, okay?

So we've been playing against each other since we were 12. Yeah. And his sister, Sarah, works at the keg in Toronto. Uh-huh. And I know that two Saturdays ago... She got double team. She didn't get double team, but, you know, she took... down possibly the captain of the Montreal Canadiens.

Okay. All right. Yeah. And I know that because I've got feelers out. I got people and everyone wants to provide information and share information. So you had like a secret police. I had a fucking dossier. He was Stalin.

Basically. You did have like a KGB working for you. What was I going to do? I mean, if you're going to do that job, then like be the best at it and be prepared. Do you think because you were undersized, you were conceived to be undersized? that this was like a marginal advantage that you could like exploit and like have a career for 13 years and in the like a Absolutely. It was a survival skill. It was also Scarring from being the smallest on my team since I was a kid. Yeah, you know, because

Standing beside you you might people might go oh, he's pretty what a big guy Five ten is good but we're the same height dude. I looked at the same birthday. I know. Yeah, that's true. But when I was playing, playing it was a big game and guys were I mean I took a video with your it's no it's not it's not I've heard that it's not as big but like guys were six guys were like uh you know huge yeah 60 pounds 70 pounds like I did I'm here me or yager I saw him for the first time 10 years yoggs would just he's such a big man he would crush me yeah so how do you fight a guy that big a bigger guy you you because that fighting fighting fighting's a different mechanism because it's all about levers and and pushing and pulling.

So if you know and understand like, how do you fight in general? I fought to not get hit. I fought to not get hit to make it to sell the fight to not hurt my hand and to make sure that I landed on top of that fucking guy. So that if we were on the road, the building went quiet. And now I've just neutralized one of their. energy. There's no energy. And if we're at home, the place goes fucking crazy. And you're a legend of the garden. Pretty good. I mean, like,

your profile of player, I would imagine that that just amps the fucking stadium up like to a thousand. Yeah, especially in New York. Like, you know, these, you know, New Yorkers, they used to be hard, hardened people. Yeah. You know, blue collar. Well, it feels like it's coming back it's about to I think I was kind of guys I yeah right doing shit working so in New York the fans appreciated it I played in LA and like they didn't like me in LA yeah the fans like I have more people come up to me in LA that go I didn't like you I I I you were a king I didn't like you as the can you took too many bad penalties you got every press in LA yeah bully you oh oh oh with

Oh God. You made fun of your teammates list. I guess that's... What a jerk. What a real jerk. Whoa. I've heard that that... You know, I concede.

Post league... Maybe I did. Did you make amends with certain people? Like, we were you like, I was fucking dickhead to you? Definitely. What do you mean? At in time that I switched teams, I had to. Oh, you...

But that's political. You want to talk about awkward? Yeah. You know? Get traded from the rain. to from L.A. to New York. And you said despicable things to some of these guys. Some bad things to some of the guys.

Terrible guys. But they realize. They realize. Yeah, you got to have an awkward sidebar. They're like he's our guy now. Well, yeah. I feel like you could handle that awkwardness. You go in and... It's the only way I've been able to survive. And I think like the other thing is this is like going back to the original question

of you being the smartest guy. Yeah. Like you've been around these guys since you were eight probably. Yeah. You know their psychology, right? And like for me getting funny, but it was also just I could confuse bros to the point where some of my friends even kind of realized I was making fun of them. Right. But it would escalate to them seeing red.

Yeah. Yeah. I would do it the opposite where they'd just be like walking away. They'd be like what the fuck did he say? Yeah. Yeah. That was like my mechanism. So it's just like two sides of the same.

The mechanics of what we do are the same. Who's the dumbest guy? Like are they like? Donald for sure. Don, and. And, and you know, like, Martin Brashear from the Michael Jackson documentary? Donald Brasheer, he had a Great Dane or some sort of giant dog, and he used to shower with it at the arena. Yeah.

At the arena? Yeah. Like, and hockey players, we don't have, our showers. Yeah, we don't, hockey players have this weird culture. We don't have individual stalls. Yeah, who cares? It's one big shower. Family, dude.

Yeah. And he was in there showering with his dog. Whatever. I don't like him. For sure, it was not cool. Who do you still have smoke with? Is there a guy that you're like, fuck that guy? There's a guy named Matthew Barnaby who actually played for the Rangers.

Oh, shit. I remember that guy. And Barnaby was, I mean, I love Matthew Barnaby as a player. Matthew Barnaby now on X. He doesn't even use Instagram, which is like such a boomer move. He's only an ex-guy. Yeah. Could be a cool move, maybe, actually.

Yeah, yeah. Could be the move is a great Instagram account, by the way. What is could be the move? It's could be the move. What is it? Could be the move is during the World Series because you're a team player, you wear your batting glove to work. Oh, shit. For your boys?

For the boys. And then you send it to them? And then everybody does it. And everyone does it. Yeah. Could be the move. Could be the move. I got into, I have lost $200 million in gambling for show.

for show. Oh, you were the guy? No, I'm the bag man. No, I'm not the translator. No, you kind of could look like him. Do I look Japanese? If we shaved your head and... That's right. Respect our rude, dude. That's respect. Wait, so like, obviously you had Compromot and you knew the things that would trigger them.

But like, you knew that they're also gross. Like, was there an aspect of the fact that you're interning of Vogue? You were like kind of a dandy off ice? Yeah. Was there an aspect where you like, there was an entrenched maybe like, I'm I'm getting chirped by like a fucking like what this guy's like a fancy boy. Yeah, I was like, there's a great clip of Wayne Simmons who was a great player. He was a black hockey player.

Not many. There's an incredible clip of him. He's on the Philadelphia bench and I'm in the penalty box and he screams and you can see it. He calls me a faggot. He screams. So I did intern at Vogue. And I did it because I've always been curious, but I also think subconsciously and now, you know, being able to analyze like your life. You were fucking with that.

I was fucking with you. I was, I was the troll. I was the all, I was, I was so deep in the troll game. Because there is amongst pros like an entrenched homophobic. And you were also early. Oh, entrenched. Oh, I mean, no. Yeah.

Yeah, you were early, you were like well ahead of the curve and you like advocated for gay rights like in the league. I was the first professional athlete to... Really? On the record. Yeah. In my Ranger jersey, which is credit to Jim Dolan. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, by the way, can I tell you something? I do jujitsu at Clockwork Jiu-Jitsu in Soho. You should start doing it. A man that can't grapple is... You can? You can? You like... You like to...

Day to lay 30s, you learn how to fight? Absolutely, right now. I could turn you into a... They could turn you into a fucking... Machine. Machine yeah an assassin would I fight like girls at first I mean like I did you you roll with girls Really yeah you ever pop what no no no but you roll with girls well what if I lose to a girl in the NHL That's the point it's embarrassing that's the point it's an ego killer

So what were we talking about? You do jihistice do a clockwork Jiu no no I know but I was going into it for some reason we both are idiots We were talking about Dolan you don't you know here here here here here Here's what's funny. Yeah. And I will say this right now because Dan Carcillo, who played for the Rangers, played for Philly, won a Stanley Cup in Chicago. He's now one of the leaders in psilocybin therapy. Yeah.

Okay. I have CT. There's no question I have CT because my short-term memory is not good. Yeah. All right. It's getting better because of what I do now for work and I'm like I've been working that muscle My fucking long-term memory I've had numerous people on this New York trip tell me stories I hadn't seen them in a while like wild stories that I had no recollection of I think you're probably just fucked up I was moving fast and I was fucked up

Yeah, yeah, but also a little bit of the CTE is starting to the short goes first though Well Well my shorts not like it's not the best my mom my mom look what just happened my mom had brain cancer so she experienced like dementia and like the cool thing was like when she started the short term went I would talk to her and I'd tell her to have her tell stories from before and so she tell her she would remember things for like like 1981 like and that that was like a way I could like uh interesting chill with her like she's she still here no she she passed away yeah

and my best dude she's my toy you know I've been reading a lot of research papers on LSD and Alzheimer's prevention. Well, yeah, she had brain cancer. No, I understand, but the brain and... It's so sad. But for you, so like, I want to talk about Tornorella and like that situation because like... Did you just say, yeah, your mom dying was obviously terribly sad, right? Of course, yeah.

Was it recently? No, it was like five years ago. But you're still in the trenches on it. No, it's just like, um, the... just like um it's kind of a nice thing you realize that you're it's just it never gets better but in a way that's nice where it's just becomes part of you now you just understand life in a deeper way yes yeah yeah yes and so it's just like you can get used to someone not being there but i got it i got that aspect it's and it's so it's just like uh yeah it's like a defining

moment yeah yeah i don't think i ever like believed in god or anything but like at the end of my family being together i was like oh this is kind of the point like you're just like like you know sharing and it was more of a spiritual thing versus no it wasn't even spiritual it was like you know like if you live on earth and you have love and you give love to you have blood blood you have each other's back oh blood like go down with the ship I learned I learned to appreciate like family a lot more because we had we have family members that have like literally sociopaths like stolen money bad people right yeah yeah and we had close family

friends that wanted to like be around and helpful and we we asked them like just like not to like they were like trying to like let us meals to the house and then like the our family that are like just like they're gypsies like uh those were the ones we wanted there right yeah right no it's yeah yeah yeah i mean just like people we've had we've had falling outs with for 20 years like those are the people they're still like at the end of meeting there yeah and in a really cool way because those are your got yeah those are that you're fucking got. Yep, I agree.

I agree. And I think a little bit of that, I don't know. I'm like trauma is kind of good now because it's helpful to kind of like, I feel like I never did ketamine. I did a ketamine drip once. And it felt like I was in a video game. Like I was kind of like stepping in jello. That's how I feel now.

like just sort of more open and like people have tough times and like I I'm okay with and part of that is becoming a martial artist I want to feel shit now yeah but also our job you can't have highs and lows when you're a professional athlete like you're not paid to you're paid to be emotional but also unemotional and actually more less emotions is better were there guys that were robots that you could just couldn't you couldn't fucking wind up

yeah didn't drive you nuts yes there was like Joe Sackick Joe Sackick has like just he's like a yeah he's the terminator he can't you know he's the fucking terminator yeah you couldn't you couldn't yeah so yeah the high level Gs those are like the samurai those were the guys that like

just Buddha's They can, it's like clear the mechanism and they're just, they're on a different wavelength. Yeah, yeah. There's not many of those guys. But yeah. I think in all professional sports, those guys are always just the, yeah. Yeah, Yamamoto, Shohei. I love the Japanese players.

The Kobe, like, when Matt Barnes is like faking the inbound and Kobe doesn't flinch, it's just like there. He wants that. It's, yeah, there's something about it where he's just like, it does not. Yeah. It's a human reflex to be like this and he's just, he's the termination. Yeah. He's like shed his humanity. Yep.

He's a killing machine. No, I understand it. I want to talk about the bro. Well, the savory rule. Let's, this is like, this is the most me thing.

This is one really got me fired up. Because like, you figured out, do you know what a Peneca is? No, is it a palindrome? No, a Peneca is something, soccer, right? Uh-huh.

They've been shooting, like, penalty kicks for a hundred years. with the sport and then this guy um i'll show you putting neck wait wait this guy like realized he's like what if i just uh is this recently no this is like at the 80s he's a chakislavocyan guy yeah so so so it's just this czechoslovakia guy he's like what if i don't go left or right what if i just like chip it down the middle oh i remember the right yeah of course it's right right Right. So like,

yes. The thing about the Broder moment, right? Great, great correlation too, by the way. Is that you just did something, you, was it, what was the thought process? Was it, you say it's not calculated. You say you just, you skated towards, it was like 15 seconds. It wasn't premeditated. I'll say that.

So explain for the audience like what it was. Yeah. So Broder is a goalie. Marty, one of the greatest goleys of all time. Fatso. Fatso forgot to shake my hand. I'm a forward. Our job is to basically get in front of his face and cause some sort of obstruction.

Kill his line of sight. That's really what you want to do. As a player, you don't want to be one-on-one with a goalie because he has sight on the puck. You want to shoot through a screen. All the great goal scores, they shoot through screens. Yeah. So it's like a scene eye puck, okay? My job was to not touch really the puck because I'm on the ice with Scott Gomez, legendary.

Gomer. Gomer, Alaskan-born. Chris Drury, who's now the general manager of the Rangers, Brendan Shanahan, and Yeramir Yager, in my opinion, the greatest European player of all time. So my job is to make sure that I can, break that sight line so that one of these superstars can get a puck into the net. Right.

Okay? When I go to the front of the net and Martin Broder, the goalie, who is a wily veteran, like a G, an OG, okay? He was a shithouser, too. He was a shithouser. He knew how to play the game. And I would go to the front of the net. And in hockey skates, if you poke a guy behind his knees, because our blades are rockered,

you can use the momentum and the guy will just go ass over tea kettle. So Broder would do that. Back to the knee. Yes. Boom, you're gone. And he wanted me to fall into him because then he would sell it and I would take a penalty. So it's this chess game between two diabolical guys that are trying to help their team win. Yes.

Now the moment that I made the decision, it was a power play, I knew that I had to go to the front of the net. Okay, I had like 15 seconds notice. Like, okay, I'm going out there and I know where I need to go. I jump over the boards. This is Madison Square Garden during the fucking playoffs. Cathedral of the game. Right. Right. Right. Right. pre-renovation.

So the building even moved a little bit different back there. I take two strides and I can remember like having an inner debate with myself for the next like six to eight strides, which is probably two seconds. From the time I jump over the boards to get in front of the net, we're talking like six seconds total maybe. It's like a eureka moment? I said, you know, I love risky business. It's one of my favorite movies of all time. Sometimes you've got to just say what the fuck. So good.

And I said, yeah, I'm going to do it. And I just went directly in front of him. And I have the luxury of seeing his eyes that no one else could see. And this guy, multiple Stanley Cups. And I just said, fuck, if I put my hand in front of his face, and every time he moves somewhere, my hand moves with it, I've just solved the riddle of a hundred. hundred years of this game which is trying to break a goalie's eye line.

So effectively, you're going to turn your back to the game of hockey happening and you're going to just be annoying. You're going to be like, yeah, I'd be like this. Yeah, just if you, yeah. And he's going to be like, get the fuck out of my way. Right, right. Right, right. It's like you're being annoying right now.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then the dopeest part of that sequence was that you fucking dunked. I scored, yeah. Yeah. How did that feel? Is that your favorite goal? Yeah, yeah, I think so.

Do you feel like God? I think so. The way the building fucking rocks? I think so, yeah. Yeah. Fuck. Yeah. Is that better than sex?

Yeah, it has to be. It's the one thing. It's the one. Goals. I've never chased the dragon, but goals at MSG. Oh, my God. In Nashville or, you know. And you also know Andy Cohen?

Yeah. You have the best life ever. Yeah. People magazine said we were once engaged. Really? Yeah. Me and Andy used to do these Miami trips at the end of the season. So we go to Ultra.

You know Ultra Music Festival? It used to be cool. Now it's very commercialized like everything. Hopefully your show. Hopefully you don't sell your soul. No, dude. Well, I'm open for the highest bidder. Right.

Me too. Saudi Arabia. Anyone wants to come up. What about Benny? Why isn't Benny paying you? Oh, the influencer program? You didn't get it? You didn't get it?

You didn't get in on that? I said a couple things with that. Oh, right. I think I've said a couple things. Yeah, yeah. I think I'm on a list somewhere. Got it. So, so I do the thing.

I score. Here's the interesting part of the whole thing. Okay. To change a rule in the NHL, you have to do it at the board of governor's meeting in the summer. Like the owner's meeting? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

And the union, the. Players union is, is, they're representing. What's that? It's a whole thing. Funny it. They're talking about goalies. I'm sorry. No, no.

So to change a rule in the NHL, you have to do it in the summer at the board of governors meeting, which is voted on between the players union and the teams, the owners. Okay? We're going to do a rule change. Everybody's going to put a ballot in and I'm sure it's on an iPad now. I did the fucking thing in front of Brod's. We won the game. I think we won the game.

We lost the game. We won the series. You won the series. Okay. Nice. Nice, doc. You lost it overtime. Yeah.

Okay. So it was a high stakes game. I went to bed. I woke up the next morning. I had a miss caller text message. Glenn Sather. And they were giving me a heads up. Like, yo, they just changed the rule.

And you're not allowed to do that. tonight or ever again. It's kind of bullshit. Yeah. Do you think that like... It's illegal. And I want to do a 30 for 30 on it or some sort of like little mini doc. It'd be amazing.

But I don't want to expose everyone. I just want to know, like who made that call? Because that's a funny call. If Gary Betman's like, okay, we're going to break precedent, we're going to do something illegal. But he can't do that again. Like all the owners are in their pajamas. Right. And they have to get them on like a, not a Zoom.

Right. Right. Like, did you see, are we good? Can I, can we, can we do this? We're gonna, we're gonna step out of line here and do something that we've never done before. Because, because the bad kid, the bad guy, you were naughty. Yeah, I found a loophole. You found it, I mean, it was just like, it was a fucking gray area. Moment of brilliance and it's just like that is to be so cool. Yes. And I don't even think it should be against the rules. I can see where they're coming from because then it gets a little bit of. of like a... Because then I would just...

Well, I would draft the biggest guy I could ever find that I could put in skates. Yeah. And just bigger than chara. Just to make sure his arms could work and say, you gotta figure out how to skate from here to the front of the net. Yeah. And all you have to do is just use your, like, shack. I was... I lived in DC during the, like, the Caps Pens years.

Mm-hmm. And I got back into hockey. It was really fun. Yeah. Actually, my friend was sleeping with this girl. And she was, uh... She was also to see me with Ovi. Oh.

Yeah, yeah. And she would just get a text. Like, he was like, he was a date there. She would just leave? Yeah, she would just leave. She would get a text that said, I want fuck you in ass. He's the coolest guy of all time. Ovi?

I love Ove. You ever chill with him? Nope. I never had the luxury. There's something so fucking, like, just lovable about him. Like in a show hay way, where they're like, they're kind of like a big dog or something. Because you know what? They love the game.

But like there was like defenseman on the pens that was like he was nine feet tall. Hal Gill. Do you remember that guy? Yeah, I left. Yeah, I lacerated my spleen and almost died in St. Vincent's because I hit him. Because of that guy? Yeah. What did you try to do?

No, it was, we were in the playoffs. It was a second round. I think it was game three. And a puck got dumped in from the blue line. And I can remember it so vividly. You know, it's weird. what sticks with you and I said to myself it was like I'm gonna fucking kill Hal Gill right now but he's like nine feet tall I know but I I'm I'm going to like I'm the guy that's

gonna prison rules I am going to get how I'll gill right now we're at home I went a hundred miles an hour I hit him so fucking hard and I think he just like he just kind of like leaned into me because he was huge he was six foot eight and I remember like you know when you get hit or punched and you want to pretend like it didn't hurt. So then I kind of like got to the bench and Cass our trainer. You bounced off him. I bounced off of him. Bounced off of him. I got to the bench. I said to, it was actually Jim Ramsey Rammer. I go, I think I just tore my abdominals. Can we go in and get a tort all shot? So drugs. Yeah. Yeah. So I, we went in and I got. You guys were like future.

We, you guys were off of the perks, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the only way you get through, right? Well, Toridol's only, you can only use it in the playoffs. That's when we're allowed to technically use it. You get better drugs? Yeah, they, you get the good stuff. Yeah.

You get the actual, they put a needle. It's like the perfect, you know, the sports scene where you bend over the table and the needle goes in the ass. Yeah. Anyways, I thought that I tore my abdominals. I got a Toradol shot. It was my second. I finished the game, and after the game I got into a cold tub, and I got into the cold tub, and all of a sudden I felt like I got stabbed in the shoulder.

And shout out Doc Feldman, Andrew Feldman, good Jew. He said, let's go. They put me in a robe. They took me to St. Vincent's. I got to St. Vincent. I had hit Hal Gill so hard that I lacerated my... my spleen, my own spleen. So he didn't hit me, right? Normally you get hit by a car, you get a lacerated spleen in a car accident. I did it to myself because I was like, I'm going to kill

Halgill right now. And he and I spent six nights in the ICU of St. Vincent, which is not even here anymore. They tore it down in the West Village. Yeah, it's the nice hospital now. Well, the circles, yeah. It wasn't. It's where most of the AIDS. Yes, yes. And I was in the basement and I saw, I said, I'll go. I'm good with this at this point. Really? Yeah. You always died?

Yeah, it was a shooting. It was a, it was a, it was a, they had to cauterize it, but they could only, it was the type of bleed that you could only see it when the scope was in. So I had to keep going in. They had to scope me like four times over the course of five days. It was crazy, dude. I talk to, I'll ask you first, and I'll tell you what I've gotten in my research, but how do you think your profile player would translate to 2025 NHL? Oh, ha.

Oh my God. Well, the funny thing is if I had have started taking jiu-jitsu while I was playing, I would have won multiple Stanley Cups. And I'd probably be the president of the United States. Really? I mean it... No, you know you were born in Canada. Right, that's true. Fuck off.

That's right. Yeah, okay. Wait, so what, but like... But how would you jih Tzu help, though? Because it slowed everything down. And what I wanted, what I did, I sped everything up. It went too fast. I sped everything up.

Yeah. Everything went from like zero to a hundred immediately. And guys, you know, on my team and it was warm-ups. It was just always. It was constant. Yeah. Soccer, like, some of the best players, they look like they're going like it's so slow. Yeah.

Because, like, there's, like, a term for it, like a Spanish term, Posa. But where the player, like, there's chaos surrounding them, and they just look like they're in the eye of the story. Right. And they just, everything is just so, like, people are just falling over. It, like, looks, like, but what they're doing is their brain is doing math. Right. There's, like, they're doing equations. They're computing.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you know what's so ironic? It's like everything comes around full circle. I'm going to Detroit for the centennial anniversary alumni. Steve Eiserman was the one guy that sat me down and said, just shut the fuck up. Just shut the fuck up and play.

And he doesn't do that with a lot of people. He certainly didn't then as a player. And on one hand, I can say I should have listened to him. I would have had a better hockey career. Well, you sustained a career from not shutting the fuck up. Right. But that means that one of the goats believed in your skills. Yes.

That's kind of dope. Of course. And he would say that I probably left the lot on the table as far as plane-wise. Interesting. Now, the other side of it is that. I think I was like more an entertainer than than a player. And that's, I mean, like, we'll get to it because I want to say this what I've heard first. But like, that's an interesting thought to be like, well, this is, I mean, you're an actor now.

I mean, no, no, but that that's the same thing. It's, I'm telling a story. Exactly. What I got back, I talked to like an NHL insider. He said your skillset would apply better to a modern NBA or NHL. Oh, I'd be a, I'd be a gamer right now. Because like, I'd be, I would dominate, because I could skate. And also the, it was, you being undersized.

Yeah, now, now, now, yeah. You're a great skater. And then also, like, the psychological elements of the game have, have, actually, it's kind of a coveted, like a GM will seek out. Like, we're going to play out. There's not many of these guys left. Yeah. Yes. And from what I understand, like, the Panthers are kind of like Avery type of team.

Sam Bennett. they have multiple Avery-esque players. I mean, better than Avery. But, like, they have some of my... They wear the, like, the evil empire kind of thing. They do, yes. Because they're, like, starting a little dynasty situation. Yes, and I love watching them.

Yeah. And I wish... And I'm very critical of the Rangers. And I wish we had players in New York City that played a little bit like some of those fucking guys in Florida. Yeah. In the tree of, like, of your profile in the NHL as agitator.

Like, who do you see as your OGs? Oh, God, OGs? Yeah. A lot of my peers, this guy, Steve Ott, who I played with in Dallas, who's now assistant coach in St. Louis, was a complete animal. He would decimate your entire bloodline

if he could, if he had enough time and he was a savage. You know, Tiger Williams was this guy that played back in the day. And Eddie Shack, it was like clear of the track. Here comes Shack. There's been some Kenny Linsman, the rat. Kenny Linsman was my dad's favorite player.

He played for the Bruins. Yeah, they called him. He was the original rat. Yeah. So I always loved, yeah, I, you know, Dougie Gilmore to a certain extent, but was a little bit more skilled. He was a Toronto Maple Leaf.

And did you conceive of what you were doing as like playing at the heel, like in like professional wrestling? Absolutely. You're like Eddie Guerrero, almost. Yeah, and and Rhonda Rousey, I think she's gonna come back as a heel. Is she? I think to the UFC, yeah. Kind of what you were doing by being a fancy boy was like you were doing a little bit of gold dust too, right?

I was inflaming. I was like acting like a little bit, a little bit spicy, right? Yeah, but I was also the first person that brought, I mean, I brought Andre Leon Talley to a ranger game. Who's that? He was a giant gay black fashion man who worked under Anna Winter for a long time at Vogue. A legendary. You were trying to distract the guys? No.

Well, kind of. Yeah, yeah. Maybe. Am I correct to say the NHL is the only North American sport that has never had an out gay player? Well, because we're the only sport that outside of UFC, like, we fight. And I still think there's that... That macho. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, and, I played with gay players. Totally. For sure. I, I bet, yeah. Oh, yeah. That was, I gave you an opportunity to, you could have came at me on that one. What? Like, what, how do you know they were gay?

I don't know. No, you would ask me that. How do you know they were gay? Implying that I had, like, sexual relations with some of my gay teammates. You fucked your guys? No, see, that's what I'm saying. I was already way ahead of, I was, already playing the bit.

Were you trying to help them come out of the closet or like was it? No, I was trying, oh, are you doing it? Ha ha ha. That was good. In terms of like you playing the heel and like you were kind of, and you're kind of, and you realizing that your entire 13 years was a type of performance, right? Yep, yeah. Well said.

Then like most of the times you got in trouble from what I saw. Yeah. Wasn't it actually like you were doing a dirty hit on the ice? It wasn't like you were trying to like, you kind of like, you kind of, you kind of, You could give me a guy's spinal injury. It was talking to the press, right? I said the sloppy seconds thing, which was, you know. What the, why?

It's not, it's nothing. In 2025, it's nothing. In the NBA, there's like six girls that they all have sex with. No, but it was a, it was a crass and it was. That to me just seemed like Gary Bedmond was like just sick of you, right? Gary wanted to send a message. That was like, you, it was the last straw. Again, well said, yes, yes.

But the problem, what I saw was, like, going back to Connor McDavid, love him. We love him. But like, you know, I was. You're going to give them an interview, right? The rest of the guys are going to be like, well, you got to plead. You got three periods. Yeah, we are. For the puck, with the puck drops.

Yeah, hockey players have been conditioned to be some of the worst sound bites of all time. And you're like, you're giving them. So the media is like, you're feeding. To something said, you're like, you're one of my great quotes to the media and this sort of ties into like what I was doing I was on the back page of the post when Spitzer went in this I got pulled into the spitzer. Oh, you got fine and nine? I got I got pulled in. Really?

And the back cover was the Ranger and the Madam because somebody said that I was in the book. Oh, were you? I walked in. So when I got to the rink that day and the. horde of reporters. I said, guys, any time that I've ever been to a whorehouse, I didn't use my real name. And they loved it. And that was it. And they loved it. And that was, it was done. But like, they're not going to get that out of these like, these like guys from, I agree. I agree. They're like there. And so to somebody said, you were giving the NHL, you're like, like,

like headlines. You were like, you're actually like doing something for the league. On a national level, well, yeah, more than some of like the stars in the league, for sure. And I think nowadays it would be conceived in a different way, I think, right? Because like nowadays we understand that like that's, that what you're doing is you're effectively doing PR for the league and you're making it more popular. Yeah, I mean, you know, Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey are a great example. Of what? Of, of, you know, what? White nationalism.

of um uh like what we want to see from our our athletes perfect areas of so when i was doing it it was like oh he look at this guy he's dating he's like he's dating fancy he's dating famous girls it was sort of weird that's bad and the guy before me me hot girls is bad well it's it's an old boys club and it's a very traditional like Like the shower. Yeah. Like the shower. Yeah, like the shower.

So it's 95% gay. Yeah. You're like one of the only guys that gets pussy. And now you're getting, you got judged for it. You got suspended for getting pussy. Yeah. Essentially, right? You decided, you announced you wanted to be a Shakespearean actor.

Yeah. Yeah. And then like you've pursued creative, like, you've been doing something from eight. So like, when did you retire? I was 33 maybe. So it's one thing your whole life. Yeah. Right?

And like, when I was watching that devil's Rangers series, that's war. Yeah. You're a fucking war. I think what happened was I was burnt out. Yeah. Because I was tired of being chased. You know, Gary was up my, the league. There was always something.

Like, when I think of back to Eisenman saying, just shut the fuck up, it was too late at that. point. Yeah. There had been so much heat and like it was it was you had a career waiting for you probably as a result of it. Well, well I played I played long enough that I that I said if I don't do it now and I stay, you know, then they pull you back in. Now I'm 40 when I'm done and I know I want to do something else. Yeah, yeah. I got to do it now while I'm young and energized and like and thank God that yeah, thank God that I'd have more money now. I guess, you know. You're competing against other dudes your whole life, right?

Like, how do they replace that, right? Dude, it's like doing beautiful, gorgeous paintings and like, you know, reading beautiful books. Well, I don't, well. Those guys are like, are they gambling? Are they like, you know. It gets dark. Yeah, it gets dark.

It gets dark. Is there a support network, like, for the last? I think it's getting better for the boys. Like the Players Association has something? I think it's getting better. Yeah. You know, we have great medical. So yes, they're in much better situations than the average person,

but they're also dealing with like, fuck, it's pretty dark. It's dark because you don't know, like, you don't know anything. You've only done one thing. Well, you're trying to kill another guy your whole life. And then now you're like at the, what, like you're just saying? You're just a regular guy. Yeah, yeah. It gets dark.

And you got to figure out how to fucking. Time is your enemy when you stop playing. You punched a cop, right? Oh, in LA, yeah. Well, no, they- Tifa, Antifa style. They said... You defunded the police.

They said that... No, they tried to come in the house. This was in Laurel Canyon, too, by the way, which is... You know, very hippity-dippity, right? Earthy. Yeah, they had an LAPD helicopter on top of the house telling me to surrender. And then I think I was on the back page of the post for that.

the piggies because I was whatever. All I'm saying is this is that when you... No, you're transitioning into a real life. It must be hard not to punch every cop you see. You're like a Vigo in history of violence. Yes. Yeah. I couldn't, or Fight Club or, you know, I couldn't go to work. I couldn't work in a regular atmosphere. When you come from an atmosphere where you're allowed to fight your co-worker as a positive step,

to then go into the public sector and what, what? I mean, I don't know, work for Fanduel. Or even at Fandual, I'm sure there would be issues. I would punch fans. Right? Yeah. So. Do you feel like you got out of the shit?

You're like, you got out of the knob. I got out of the knob. Yeah, yeah. And you needed some time. And I was, I was always. It has to be a transition. Yeah. Yeah.

Because my job, like I said in the book, I felt like a protector. So taking out my flame thrower, I would say was, I was being, it was a precautionary step. I didn't look at it as like I was, I was just making sure everything was cool out there. Right, because like the best player on one team, like Sidney Crosby's gone in one fight, right? Yeah. Right? So because there's a, because there's a knight like you and he's like, oh, thank you.

Like who like comes in and handles it. It handles it. So the transition takes, you know, it takes a while. So chivalrous. It takes a while. Was there another guy where the two of you were like, we love fighting each other on another team? It's kind of romantic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Me and Darcy Tucker did. Yeah, you liked it. Yeah, and I love them. And you high five afterwards? You're like, no, no, but. And you know what's interesting? It's so crazy because Darcy Tucker married one of his teammates' sisters. That was something that I would approach.

Oh, so you chirp that? Yes, yes. Well, I would tell the teammate that, that Darcy is dicking her so good tonight. That's what I would, I kept it away from. And then Darcy would come in and say, I'm not taking her. He would defend his brother-in-law.

If his brother-in-law didn't snap, Darcy was coming over the top to defend his honor. So it was a win-win. Family stuff worked best? What worked best? I mean, sisters, you would get, the wires would get, cross if you get if the sisters I put your sister I'd be like she's great and you're great

ha ha ha mausel to I would love it right I would love you my blessing right yeah but that's the I'm Joe Sacking that's like I love that for you yeah yeah yeah yeah no that that was it that was a anything ex-girlfriend ex-girlfriend ex-girlfriend ex-girlfriend because she's such a who cares well because she's now dating that's what a my teammate but that's what a bro goes through Yeah, yes. But I was like, you had sex before me? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. The fundamentals. So how the fun, you're about to be your third Christopher Nolan. Okay. When I was done playing, I did Dancing with the Stars. And one of the producers on Dancing with the Stars' husband is a guy by the name of John Papsidera who I think is a hockey name. Well, no, he's a casting director.

I know, but it sounds like a hockey name. Yeah, it does. Like, yeah, Papsedera. Papsidera. there, you used to hit like a truck. Like a truck. So because I did dancing with the stars, a few years later, my buddy Pete Berg put me in a movie called Patriots Day.

I'd never been on a movie set. Yes. I saw it in a hotel was. And I took the train up to Boston. And the combination of those two events, because once I did the thing in Boston with Pete, I go, that's the closest thing I've ever felt to fighting at Center Ice and Madison Square garden. I'm on set. There's 200 people all of a sudden they go action and it's like you're acting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So because I did Dancing with the Stars and now did this Berg movie, now I get

connected to John Papsidera who has a history of casting and breaking like he likes interesting dudes. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And he puts me in Tennant was the first one. And I did six weeks on tenant the last final sequence when all the shits were blowing the shit up yes inverted yeah inverted ordinances and all that I got that movie really yeah yeah oh you did made mad sense really it took me like 14 times with the subtitles on and I was in the movie to figure it out yeah but you should have asked while you were there I I've I've been like what the fuck is this is then I did Oppenheimer and I auditioned for these roles yeah

Yeah. I do the thing, the sides, the tape. And I don't know what happened at that point, but like much like my hockey career, I had a couple of mentors like, geez, that guided me, that, like, liked what was going on. Uh-huh. And I guess I just finished doing The Odyssey, and so that's my third one. And now I'm a, you know, a working actor. Like I'll go I'll go anywhere

Is he like a general on set How's he how's he running that show He's like he's like He's like patent or something That's what I imagine He's so good He is He's so good

How is he He doesn't lose as cool I imagine No no I mean I don't He's like He's like Firing on a different wavelength He's like He's like show hey

Right He He He sees everything happened before it happens. Or also, you know, just trusts the beauty of creativity and hires the best people and lets them paint. Uh-huh. Wow. Inside structure.

Inside fucking, like, reality. Because that's the other thing he builds reality. I mean. Yeah. And he also does everything in cameras. Everything. Yeah. The whole thing.

With like a fucking IMAX. Yeah. Yeah. We were in. We were just all over. the world. So he's basically like Scotty, right? He's like...

He's the Scotty of movies. He's the Scotty Bowman. Yeah, the Scotty Bowman of movies. Really? He is. When you saw, wait. Because I once sat in a sauna with Scotty Bowman. Really?

What was it? What do you look like? He had a towel just under his... I would imagine so. Right up to the... Right up to the top. Yeah. So he looked like he was in fighting shape.

And... You see him this weekend? I hope to God, I do. I hope to God. Because, you know, I was a kid and insane when I met him. You were being a bad boy. And he sat and he talked to me about my dad and my dad being a teacher and what high school. He would always talk about things that had nothing to do with what I think he was trying to get you to understand.

Really? In a very beautiful way. He's like God, you. And I think that that's how I would, the comparison, Chris. That was a good. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Really? Yeah, like in the ether. In terms of like direct, so he was directing you to Scott. Scott Bobbin. Yes. That is one of the dopest things I've ever heard. Yes. I love it when sports stuff is expressed that way. Yes. Yeah. Like in a different, wow. Yeah, I love fucking sports. But you should, are we going to go to games together? Yes. Can we go? Yeah. Are we boys? I think so. Yeah. Can I just close. I didn't know how this was going to go by the way.

No, no, I'm a, I'm a great. I'm just great to be around. Good. Good. What? What camp did you go to? Jewish? No, I know. Which one? Mydonic. Where? I think it was in southern Germany or Poland.

Where was my donic? Wow. Not... I want to ask you one last question. Do you think a girlfriend will ever like respect you if she doesn't feel like you could have, if you could kill her with your bare hands? No. Yeah, you're right. You see that really.

That's always in the back. It's always in the back of her head. But just that you want to like, if there's just, and you know when I see that situation. And if a guy can't do that. I have compassion for her because I know she's totally not fulfilled because she doesn't feel safe. What do you mean?

There's other types of. Which is why I come back to it. Yeah. And you know what? You should be not kill? We're going to grapple. Right now, no, don't. Stand up so everybody can see that we're...

Five ten. Five ten and he went league too. Everyone. Shot Avery. All right. That's the way. I'm sitting right. Great.

Oh, whoa, whoa. Thanks for watching. Like and subscribe.