The Adam Friedland Show (Cumtown) - TAYLOR LORENZ Talks Journalism, Internet Labor, Viral Culture

Episode Date: September 10, 2025

The Adam Friedland Show - Season Two Episode 12 | Taylor Lorenz X: https://x.com/adam_talkshow Instagram:   / theadamfrie.   TikTok:   / adamfriedlandshowclips   YouTube: Subscribe to @TheAdamFriedlandShow here:    / theadamfriedlandshow   Subscribe to @TAFSClips here:    / @tafsclips   -- Get up to 50% off MeUndies at https://meundies.com/tafs Get 20% off your first order at Mood.com with promo code TAFS. #theadamfriedlandshow #tafs #adamfriedland #taylorenz #dnc

Do influencers or celebs know how much the internet, like, sucks for everyone else? Yeah, I mean, I think it sucks for them, too. No, it doesn't. What are you talking about? They get, like... Well, they get money, but... What do you mean? Well, they get money.

They get money. They get more money than fucking Austin Butler problem. Yeah. Would you be online if you were making $0? Certainly not. No, no, no, no, no. I don't know. It's scary.

It's like you can see people getting killed and then... And then fucking, and then the N-word. I did. It's too scary. Hello and welcome back to the Adam Freedland Show. Guys, it's finally here, the merch, the merch, the merch. We've been talking about it for weeks. You guys have saw me previewed last week.

I said it'll be here any day now. It's finally launching. And for our members and patrons, you have access, early access, and discount codes for all merch drops moving forward, as well as early access to episodes. If you'd like to become a member or a patron, please. hit the join button at the top of this page or the link in the description of this video below for Patreon and for YouTube memberships. We got three new shirts plus the classic Adam Friedland logo shirt and one hat and I think you guys are going to look fucking sex. You guys are going to look sex in them. You think so? Yeah. You've been wearing it? No, no. So once again it's the TV

glow shirt. What are the other names? Put it on the screen. You got the logo shirt. The logo shirt. The doodle shirt? The doodle shirt. I don't really like it. Actually, that's based on a shirt that we found Jay Leno made for the Tonight Show. Not a big deal. Pretty cool. And plus the TV Glow shirt.

The TV Glow shirt, that's kind of based on like the CRT monitor, kind of a videodrome, kind of Cronenberg style. Yeah. And then we have this hat, guys. I have pictures of hot girls wearing them. I'll be posting them all week. And of course, the classic Adam Friedland Show logo shirt. Go to Adam the Adamfridland.

dot show and shop there for any of these shirts the adam friedland show the adam friedland dot show for merch my guess this week is journalist and podcaster taylor lorenz taylor has been in the news recently uh for a bombshell report she published in wired magazine highlighting dark money funneled from the democratic party to political influencers across platforms a damning piece of reporting that we failed to mention the episode because it was recorded like how long ago yeah a couple months ago actually now so we missed the big you probably clicked for that so why don't should i i'll call her yeah i'm gonna hit her up she can catch you up so it's like okay calling taylor she'll catch us up hey so you're uh howdy oh wait uh are we am i i'm not like recorded

right now are you are you where is is this off the is this on the right I don't know how to talk to you people well no you're on the record actually you're on the record okay bass and two could play at that game anyway so we're about to drop your episode but you know we did like like two years ago or something so I just wanted to catch up for our audience like if you could just like tell us a little bit about your wired piece just so we can kind of like just mention that and you know had like as if you were on the show and I said so Taylor tell me about the wired piece so if you want to do yeah does that make sense okay yeah oh sorry absolutely go yeah go ahead anyway I had no just kidding go ahead

I published a story with wired a couple weeks ago now at this point documenting a program that is being run in secret, basically, where a bunch of Democrat influencers were receiving money. And it's like a, like it's gained a lot of, it's controversial or something, they're getting... Well, this influencer network has allegedly about 90 influencers in it, and it will surprise you to know that they don't like being reported on very critically. So I revealed that they were secretly taking thousands of dollars a month as much. month is kind of the skin to goals for Democrat messaging and yeah they spent the past two weeks crashing out and slandering me and slandering you oh man I'm sorry

about that any yeah that's terrible so that's that's horrible anyway just for the record did just for our audience I think this is like I just to maintain the trust that our audience has in us but like did you ever see my name anywhere in any of those lists or whatever report or yeah did your name come up in the reporting yeah it's a good question what do you mean what do you mean a good question did you see my name anywhere in it just yes uh no no your name did not all right you were not you were not on the list you did not okay okay you did not get that all right yeah okay cool sweet uh yeah uh okay uh okay nice uh yeah I hope you'll enjoy your, uh, your Tuesday, okay, or Monday or whatever, I mean, it's coming out

on two. I mean, okay. Yeah, well, you won't see it there because they, they won't work with me because I am, uh, anyway, okay, uh, have a nice day. Okay, yeah, congrats about wired or whatever, whatever that's called. Bye. So yeah, so there's that. I'm innocent and, uh, yeah, enjoy the interview. It's really good with her. Lightning Rod. The lightning rod. Our next guest is an independent journalist.

She's also previously worked at outlets like the New York Times, The Washington Post. She cut her teeth covering Internet culture. Ladies and gentlemen, Taylor Lorenz. Thank you. Is it this or this? Pleasure. I don't know. I don't know.

I feel so, I took a PCR for you, though. I know, thank you. I know. I have no immune system, unfortunately. Is it tough? Is it tough, like, just, like, operating that way? Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, it sucks. And people are mean to you. They're like, fuck you. Yeah. It's tough. Everyone here is in hazmat suits right now. No, it's annoying. But I would say, like, I mean, I'm in a bunch of documentaries and stuff, and, like, they usually still take precautions on set for stuff.

In this show, I, as I was telling you before, like, I've made a living on the internet. but I haven't interacted as much with the internet as most people. I, like, kind of mainly just watch movies and stuff in sports. And in these interviews, I've been kind of discovering this ecosystem, and it's been incredibly stressful. But from what I understand, this has been your focus for, like, what, the last 10 years of your life? 15 at this point.

And in your estimation, like, has that driven you? It must have driven you insane at this point. I think it probably drove me insane a long time ago. and now I'm just like the frog in water how do you how do you cope with like the insanity of like your your area focus is the internet yeah it must have take like a psychological and influencers not even just the internet it's like online influence well they're awesome we love that great greatest minds of our generation who's the best one oh I can't pick favorites really maybe you I show

speed I'm influencer I love speed I'm influencer yeah I think podcasters are influencers at this point I'm not I'm former podcaster former podcaster show well showman YouTube is the show on YouTube yeah yeah yeah yes am I a YouTuber you're a YouTuber now oh I will say the one thought I used to have you know that one thought you have about your yourself it's like you're trying to fall asleep and it's like the worst it's just like the biggest like like most awful like thought about yourself and then you're like trying to fall fall asleep and you're like like that was that you're a that I'm a podcaster who lives in Brooklyn, and I feel like I've retired from that, and it feels so good.

Now I'm a YouTube. Now you're a YouTuber that lives in Brooklyn. Jesus Christ, I should kill myself. I don't know. I was, like, very early to embrace the, like, influencer journalist thing, and that made a lot of people in, like, mainstream media really mad at me. It was seen as trash? Yeah, yeah.

They were like, ah. But, I mean, to some extent, you were, like, the first person to recognize. that as like a force in popular culture yeah I mean maybe like the first person in journalism to like really make it a beat I started on Tumblr okay after college yeah it was the recession I was temping but it was just like I don't know I got good at making viral content okay and this girl at Tumblr like I got pretty popular on there and like media people started to follow me and and I was like maybe I should be in like media or something or like marketing I don't know I just

didn't know what I was doing you know and um this girl at Tumblr had me into the office and was like yeah like what do you what are you doing like and I was like I work these temp jobs and I'm working I was working as a messenger I was working retail and so she helped me get into advertising and then I was doing social media for brands and writing about and uh yeah but and then I ran I wrote for the Verizon Wireless Facebook page oh my God yeah that was her that was her my favorite from that job. What?

It was the 10th anniversary of 9-11. Thank God. And they wanted to put the Verizon logo in the lights. They wanted to do a Facebook post that was like... I don't think that's funny. 4G, we kept it going. Yeah. Verizon wanted to advertise.

They wanted to do that. And I just remember being like... This was like before, like, there was even like really backlash to brands online, but I was like, I feel like we shouldn't do that. Yeah, yeah. And then I was writing, I was blogging. Oh, wait. writing about influencer.

When I was big on Tumblr, like other people that were big on Tumblr were like fuck Jerry, the fat Jew and a lot of like early YouTubers and the mainstream media was like writing really like stupid articles about them and I was like I'm gonna write my own articles about how like this is labor and like this is work and like internet labor is real labor. Memes is labor. Yeah, it's it's hard labor to make content. So you approached it as a content creator and then when it's a journal. Yeah. It's interesting. I was always, I always had, like, an audience online even before I was in journalism. And then I went into doing, I ran the People Magazine Vine account.

I was doing, like, social media for, like, media brands. I launched all the Daily Mail's social media channels. Uh-huh. What was it like working for them, bastards? It was, it was great. I mean, it was, like, a crazy job because they just, I was the youngest woman in, like, senior management because they, like, this was 2012 when, like, if you knew how to, like, do anything on the internet and get traffic for them, they were just, like, oh, my God. So, like, I got to go this, like, executive retreat in a castle in England and tell them about, like, Facebook. With Rupert? With, no, Rupert doesn't own the Daily Mail.

It's, uh, Paul Dacre, it's like, it's the Roth, I can't remember their name, but it's a different right-wing family in England. But, I mean, at this point, we can see that, like, it's had, I mean, it's just, it is culture at this point. Oh, well, now it's, is there, is that still up for debate amongst legacy media? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the legacy media. I mean, how? I know. I, I It's interesting because, like, I was at, so I covered the first, I had a Snapchat show in 2016, I covered the first Trump. Yeah. So they were like giving me.

Did you get a Queeby deal? Quibi, no, I wish. Oh my God. They were just throwing money around. They were throwing money out, I know. Katsenberg, where are you, dude? Give me something for this. He should have relaunch.

I would sell this to anyone. I would sell this to fucking Lockheed Martin if they. But I just want to say like, in 2016, I was at the Hilton in the room when Trump won. And not many media reporters even bothered to get credentialed for that. And it was all like internet people. It was like forum admins and like influencers and like content creator, internet people. That election, even though all these liberals were like it was Russia that put them in office or whatever. Like that election was so defined by the internet and new media.

And I think it, I don't think it was until this election, the mainstream media even started to notice that like, oh, we're actually becoming irrelevant. I think it was like when Trump started to put these people in the press briefing room and all this stuff. What was that night? Because my impression was always like, that was one of the most insane things I've ever seen in my entire life, right? I was at the Chapo Trap House live show, right? And they wrote an entire show to be like, congrats Hillary, right? And as it was falling apart that night, I was like, this is the funniest thing in the world. And then I went to a bar. You know that picture of Paris the day after the Nazis took over? And there's those pictures, there's those, like, the citizens of Paris, they're like, we have lost Paris.

Yeah, and like, they're like, that is what Brooklyn looked like at the time. My impression was, like, those pictures of Trump in the war room was like, he didn't want to win. Oh, he didn't want to win. He didn't think he was wanted. And no one at the party thought he was going to win either. So funny. And it was so funny. And then they were going insane.

I stayed there. I stayed up all night that night. I stayed there until 6.30 in the morning. That party went all night. And then I went and got in line outside the New Yorker hotel to cover Hillary's concession speech. For after. Where everyone was just weeping. Yeah, everyone was like.

It was rainy. Yeah, and she was like, oh, yeah. Yeah. You didn't Molly at the deplorable? No, no. No, you did. I think I had some, maybe a drink or two. Oh.

Yeah, with, who, like the, the QAnon Caveman or stuff? I was making, yeah, I was making. Do you remember the moment he walked out? Oh, absolutely. I have it on camera. It is maybe one of the most, because I had just smoked weed, and then I laughed. And I was like, Donald Trump from an apprentice just became of the president. And then he walked out on stage, and he was a big old stupid, like, shit body.

And it was kind of in silhouette. And it was like, you can't know what you wanted. And I was like, I was like blazed. I was like, this is the most insane thing I've ever seen in my entire life. The coral part of you can't always get what you want. Yeah. And like just, it was like, I think, a moment of like,

this is like a, it's duchy to say this, but I'm like, this is one of the greatest works of art I've ever seen my entire life. This past election, I didn't think we're gonna, I was like, there's no way we're gonna, he's not gonna do it twice. That election, I was like, 100% he's winning. And I have the receipts from people.

You didn't know 100%? Not 100%, but I was telling people that I thought I was going to win. Because I was doing Facebook stuff and internet. I mean, I was working social media and like, well, when Bernie was, I covered Bernie for the first three months before he dropped out. Yeah. RIP obviously was like that. Anyway. But Bernie would do well on Facebook.

But like Trump was just like the internet, there was this like ground swell of support online that like no liberals were taking. Like liberals were in like full just delusion. they were delusional about it and they were so delusional about the internet and delusional about like I think they were just like delusional I've been going through like an archive of Howard Stern like I grew up listening to Stern a lot yeah and he went on like almost a hundred times and I've been like listening back to them because like as an interviewer like he is one of the most difficult interview subjects right like he if you're untethered to the truth you know like if you say oh like do you know Roy Cohen he's like I

never met him. Like, what do you do, right? When you know that he knows the guy, right? But Howard, the way that he kind of, like, massages his ego and then gets anything out. Yeah. Just like, you know, does Melania, you know, Duaneal with you? And, like, he's like, oh, how would I would never say? I would never say. You know, like, just, but, but, like, one thing that Trump recognized was, like, I think polite society saw Howard's audience as trash, right? But he realized the size of the audience, and he built the apprentice into, like, the number two rated, like, program after the Super Bowl. And I think that that was kind of a proto, like, MAGA, like, realization he's had.

Because he's not really a businessman. No, he's a, he's from television. Yeah, yeah. And he's very good at that. I want to talk about, like, covering influencers, though, and then go back to, like, contemporary politics. Like, how is that ecosystem changed? Like, like, I think a lot about what the Paul brothers were in 2015 versus what they are now.

And, like, what are the conditions that you've noticed that have sustained careers and what has killed a career, you know? There's just so much more money in this space. There's so much more legitimacy. 2015, I mean, the Paul brothers came Vine, and I write about this in my book, extremely online. That was sort of when people started to become, like, multi-platform, before they were very associated with, one platform. When Vine, well, when, no, after Vine. So Vine started to decline.

There was this famous meeting where 19 or 20 of the biggest Viner's ever, you know, got together and demanded money from Vine. They were like, we're making you guys so much money. Like, can you kids? It was a king batch. Yeah, exactly. What happened to him?

He's dead? Oh no, he's around. Okay. But yeah, it was that era. Yeah. And so they wanted money from the platform. The platform was like, the platform was just owned by Twitter, didn't want to give them money because they were worried

that every celebrity would then want to be paid for their tweets. And they just didn't also have the money. So they sort of really started to go to YouTube and become these multi-platform stars. And that was also when all this money started to really pour into the space. And that was like the beginning of the prank era of YouTube. And you saw all these people take off. But I would say like the biggest change of the past 20 years, really since the content creator industry started is like just the money and the legitimacy. Do influencers or celebs know how much the internet like sucks for everyone else? Yeah. I mean, I think it sucks for them too. No, it doesn't.

What are you talking about? They get like, well, they get money, but I mean, I don't. Well, they get money. They get money. They get more money than the Austin Butler problem. Yeah, that's true. A lot of them are making money. But the ones that don't make money, I'm always fascinated by, because it's like.

But that's everyone on the internet. Well, those, right, exactly, the average people that spend all day online. Would you be online if you were making zero dollars? Certainly not. No, no, no, no, no, no. I don't know. It's scary. It's like you can see people getting killed and then fucking

and then the N-word. It's too scary. Is that free speech or Elon's making it that? It's not free speech. He banned a bunch of journalists. I got banned. I got back on, though. Really?

Yeah, I got banned. You think, this is as an aside, but like you have an autoimmune disorder from COVID? Not autoimmune, but an immune. Autoimmune is when your immune works overtime. My immune system basically does not work enough. Autoimmune means you have really good immune. It's like overworking your immune system. My immune system.

So AIDS is good? What? No. Is that autoimmune? No. Okay. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, whatever. But like you think wearing a mat, like masking up, you think that makes you a better, like, you could be sneaker as a journalist?

Interesting. It's kind of good for you. I think people, like, don't know that they're sitting next to the journals. I'm the only one still masking in 2025, I feel like a lot of them. Yeah. But you could be in public and they're like, oh, there's some mask person, but it turns out to be. be lightning rod infamous journalist Taylor Lorenz. I will say I was at the inauguration this year

in a bunch of inauguration parties for Trump. And yeah, I was I was I think the only person masked. Was Huck Tua there? She was not, but some others affiliated with her were around. Who's affiliated with Huk Tua? Like other random influencers. Oh, God.

So trashy. I know. Okay, you think that maybe, I think, you know what is fair? You guys used to wear like a fedora with like a little book. The Reddit people? No, like journalists. Oh, journalists, yes, with the little like press badge or whatever. Yeah, and then you know who a journalist is.

Yeah. Now you don't know, you know, you could be out in public. You might be saying something. You guys should wear those, like, you think, I think you guys should wear those vests from like war zones. The blue vests that say press. With the fedora. Just because I say, I mess up things that I say all the time. But people don't need to be a journalist to, like, now we just have this, like, crowdsourced surveillance state where everyone's recording everyone at all times, like, everywhere you go, you know?

Really? Yeah. Not all of the time. A lot of the time. I think with facial, I don't know if you've ever used the website, have you heard of PIME eyes? Oh, you've got to search yourself on PIME's. I don't want to look. It's like one of those websites where it scans internet for your face and you'll find yourself.

I mean, I found myself in, like, parties from, like, Williamsburg in 2011. Nice. Yeah. Animal Collective? Yeah. It's like that. I was living in Williamsburg in 2011. I thought it was like peak cool.

I want to go back because I'm getting off track again. But like as someone that's covered this, like do you think we can fix it? I do believe in like the, I do believe in like an open web and free speech and the Internet's democratizing power. I don't, I think what's been really scary. scary in liberal and leftist spaces over the past 10 years really is this regression where they're so pro censorship so pro they want to fucking dismantle section 230 like they want to it's it's it's basically the the law that guarantees a free internet it allows for you to have basically on any platform to

sort of like host your speech for if I wanted to sue you I'm suing you and not the platform so it it protects platforms ability to publish a wide you know a wide variety of things is it protects Google from getting sued yeah in it for sued for defamation you can make a lot more money if you get them in the lawsuit too be sick well they would just shut down like I mean the point is they would stop they would shut down they would stop hosting speech and that's the that's the concern they sort of pre-censor things with like the Kids Online Safety Act and this this panic over children you know

like having open access to information about like trans people when their team teenagers. It's caused these platforms to pre-censor a lot of stuff and I think a lot of these platforms have become way too censorious. We don't have enough free speech online. But liberals aren't telling them to censor trans. Liberals want censorship of right-wing ideas and right-wingers want censorship of you know trans stuff and reproductive justice. They just want to censor each other and that's why they can come together on these really dangerous, bad, bad, dangerous censorship laws, like the Kids Online Safety Act, like the Take It Down Act. You mentioned kids, it's like, I didn't, I'm 38, so like, we didn't have the, like, like, I couldn't just watch porn, like, like, like, a, like, porn hub style.

I had to go searching for it. I had to, like, people would, like, hide it in the woods and stuff like that. In the woods? And I feel like, I don't know, maybe it's like, I don't know, maybe it's fucked kids up, like the 11, they can just see people fucking You know, it's like, maybe that's a little bit, not speech, but I don't, I don't, I'm open to that. Yeah, I'm sure. It's, I think, I think when you frame it that way, it feeds into a moral panic. I think that, I think that what you're asking for, it seems like what you're adjudicating for is age verification online.

I think you need to weigh the upsides and the downsides, right? Like, could an 11-year-old see porn online, maybe, but do you want this comprehensive age verification system where everything you do online is tied to your offline identity. That's what they're trying to build right now. What does that mean? Basically, remove anonymous speech online. So right now, you can go on a website, right? And no, the government doesn't know, like, what,

who's browsing what website, who's consuming what content, who's posting what, a lot of the times, right? Which is really essential to democracy. It's really essential to free speech, activism, journalism, stuff like that, right? So we want anonymity on the internet. Hey, guys, let me tell you about an online cannabis company that's revolutionizing the way

we deal with life's challenges, from sleepless nights to stress-filled days, it's mood.com! They've created an entire line of functional gummies that targets specific health concerns with 100% federally legal THC blends. They'll deliver them discreetly right to your doorstep, and you can get 20% off your first order at mood.com with the promo code TAFS. Guys, I've tried a bunch of their gummies myself. I've gotten fricked up on them, and it's wild how different each one feels. There's a sleepy time one, which makes you feel like you just got knocked out by Mike Tyson. No hangovers, no groggyness. I wake up feeling amazing. And then there's their epic euphoria guvies. They're perfect for those days when nothing's going right. You just

need to hit the reset button on your crap mood. What makes these different is how they've paired THC with other cannibal. Cannabloids. Cannabinoids. Leave that. We'll leave it natural. With other cannabinoids guys it's weed okay I mean it's it's getting fucked up you don't need to know the science but what they've but if you're interested is can if we have any scientists they have cannabinoids with herbs herbs and adaptogens you're just you're just not gonna find gummies like this at the dispensary or anywhere else for that matter and they have gummies for literally everything immune support menopause relief PMS symptoms mental clarity sexual arousal

Each one is crafted and using federally legal cannabis grown on a small family owned American farm, no pesticides, no bullshit. And they can ship to most states in the American country. Best of all, not only does mood stand behind everything with an industry-leading 100-day satisfaction guarantee, But as I mentioned, listeners get 20% off their first order at code T-A-F-S. So head to Mood.com, browse their amazing selection of functional gummies, and find the perfect gummy for whatever you're dealing with. And remember to use the promo code T-A-F-S at checkout to save 20% off your first order. That's Mood.com.

Guys, falls here. The beers are colder. Football's back. The fits are getting layered. but if you're still rocking old beat-up boxers under those flannels and jeans, we gotta talk. It's time to upgrade to Vyundis. These things are ridiculously soft,

like don't wanna take them off soft. They're made with micromodal fabric that feels like a cloud, and they still breathe when things heat up. And yeah, they've got legit stretch. So whether you're crushing wings onto the couch or tossing the pigskin, you're covered. And just a...

And just a time for spook season, Mey Undy's limited edition Halloween line features festive prints, including glow in the dark underwear, so you can bring the spooky vibes underneath it all. That sounds good, doesn't it, Thomas? You want some, I'll get you some of those. Some spooky vibes. Meandis has a cut for every butt

with over 20 different styles in 100 different colors and prints. different colors and prints. Me Undy's signature super soft micromodal fabric is breathable, stretchy, and un, uh, and un, and unbony, bleh, me undi's super soft micromodal fabric is breathable, stretchy and unbelievably cozy, perfect for crisp mornings, chilly nights, and everything in between. Whether you're layering up for a hike or lounging in flannel all day, me undies moves with you and keeps you comfy. One even more seasonal comfort, try the breathe line designed with the my, try the breathe line designed with moisture, wicking, and anti- odor tech to keep you fresh through fall workouts and just a long day

of pumpkin picking. Guys, they're sustainably sourced materials. They work with partners that care for their workers. Not happy with your first pair of undies, it's on me undies, okay, with more than 30 million pairs sold. And 90,000 five star reviews, me undies are essential. fall must have for every drawer. Guys, I needed this product. It's what I use. I went to the doctor one day, and I said, what's wrong with my shit?

And he said, you don't have micromodal technology in your pants. Now that I have it, I have a spring in my step. People like me. They respect me. And it's because I'm wearing micromodal technology inside of my pants. Have I gotten any compliments wearing them? Absolutely. You know why?

I wear them on the inside and the outside of my pants. Right now, a listener of my show, right now as a listener of my show, you can get cozy and spooky and for less with deals of up to 50% off, meandies.com slash T-A-A-F-S, and enter promo code T-A-F-S. That's me-undies.com slash T-A-F-S, promo code T-A-F-S for 50% off, me-UndD's comfort that's made for full. Nice. one thing i've in like looking at your stuff that's interesting is like you've made a point

that like um you you make statements about what your like political ideology is right and like um obviously journalists are human beings right um uh you but we didn't know like dan rathers like politically i think we did i mean we could guess but he wasn't like he wasn't overt about it He wasn't like, fuck, rest in pissed Biden. Do you say that? Rest in Piss Biden? I did. You know what you're doing.

You know what you're doing. Yeah. You know what you're doing. You know what you're doing. You know like these, like, Jurno, D.C. blue check types. They fucking hate it. I like, I like them. Yeah, they'll take it every time.

So what is the, what is the line between someone that's playing the game, someone that's covering the game? And where do you exist in that, in that spectrum? Yeah, I mean, I do hate, I will say, I believe, I believe that shit. Like, I don't, I hate Joe Biden. Like, I think he is a, you know. Sure, but you're trying to piss off other fucking, other people in your fucking industry that are, I mean, it's a, you live in a world of scoundrels. And you're trying to, like, piss off fucking, I don't know, the Atlantic.

I like to get a rise out of these people that I think are sort of just fundamentally unsurious. Like, they're lying. like their whole thing of like, we don't have, we don't have an agenda, we don't have an opinion. I think now, especially, I mean, considering the context of Gaza, like we see that the media does have an agenda and the media does have a certain political stand and certain journalists at these places, I mean all journalists, journalism is not a neutral act. Every editorial decision is made, you know, to present a certain version of events. And so I just think it's a farce to not acknowledge that.

And I've always, and this is why a lot of these mainstream media people hate me, is like I said for a long time, sort of from the jump, that I think that that's an antiquated view of journalism. And I think it's much better to be open about my beliefs. People can disagree. But does it color, like, people's interpretation? Because they're going to be like she's, like Fox News, right? Yeah. Was like, I feel like things changed because they were like, this is a brand of journalism. And I think that, like, I guess it's an interesting question.

Journalists have always has brands. Does that color your analysis as a liberal or leftist or like, you know, like, does that, like, instead of like, oh, I'm finding sources and I'm telling a story and I have, like, professional ethics? But I'm not lying about it. Like, what bothers me about traditional media is that they're lying. Like, they're not, and not all of them, of course, and there's amazing. When are they ever lied? Joe Biden was fine. He was doing great.

I think, you know, I just, I think that. that, again, I think this concept of neutrality is a farce. I don't think it's neutral. I've worked in these newsrooms, too. Sometimes they're trying to get, they're actively trying to get laws changed, right? Like, they're trying to do certain things. And I just think that we should be honest about it. And I will say that is what, I think the public, what has caused the public, and I wrote so much about this in my book, but what has caused so much of the public to lose trust in mainstream media is that farce, is that sort of, well, this is just, we're not, like, CNN being like, you know, well, we're

totally neutral. And, you know, but the war in Iraq is necessary. And they do have what or whatever you know people lie about all these different major events and now people have the internet they can see these lies and I think it built I don't think I know that it builds trust among my audience to know where I stand on things a lot of people in my audience don't agree with me but they know my political ideology and they know that I'm gonna come with a certain perspective that I'm not trying to conceal if you're performing a public spat do you think it's it's it's a building a brand for yourself and do you think that that distracts from like

journalism or do you think that that like benefits your your I think it totally depends on the type of reporter that you are yeah like I don't love the system that we have now where there's so many amazing journalists that are not sort of good at manipulating the internet and aren't ability they don't have a good ability to get attention or make a TikTok or whatever that are just doing phenomenal investigative journalism right and now they feel like they have to be a brand and they have to do all this stuff that's a very broken system I would love to live in a world that that is not the case

I think in the current version of the internet that we have, you know, it is this reality that attention is necessary. And that's always been the case. They sort of offloaded and they would offload that, I mean, you used to be able to depend on a mainstream media brand to sort of deliver you, audience, deliver you attention to your stories. Now you can't rely on that, so you have to do it yourself. I just, I think I've always had a very realistic view of the attention economy and always had a very realistic view of who I'm actually competing with. and who I'm competing with for attention online. And I don't think I compete with other traditional media journalists as much as I compete with podcasters,

with YouTubers, with these other people. And so I've always- Who's on your shit list? Who's on my shit list? Yeah, who you're trying to fuck with. Oh, God, I don't know. But I wouldn't say I intentionally, like, start beefs. I report critically on influencers.

Yeah. I mean, when I did that big Mr. Beast story in 2021 about his labor violations or whatever, had, like, Phil DeFranco making videos about, Like, I've always had a beat that sort of... What do you do? Oh, he made this video saying I was, did a hit piece in it, which he... No, what did Mr. Beast do?

Would a Mr. Beast do? He did, he was... Because he's a fine individual. Yeah, well, he was doing some labor. He had some labor, some labor issues. He was exploiting. Hey, he was, you know, debatably torturing his employees. I mean, he tortures people on his show all the time.

Well, I think that was the thing. Yeah, exactly. The show is the Stanford Prison Experiment. Yeah. He was also signing people to restrict events. like, please, Mr. Beast. I went to Greenville to do a story on the economic impact that he's had on Greenville and, like, the town, and it's bizarre,

because everyone... People move in there so they get free iPhone and stuff? That's awesome. The whole town is like... China, please. China, please. China, we... This is against Christ.

Go, continue, sorry. The town is just like, everyone's sort of hoping that he might, you know, come into their business or give them give them like a bill you know and it'd be like oh I heard Jimmy's gonna do a video so Jake Paul has said that he wants to run for president he's eligible in 2035 I don't think he can do it I think Mr. Beast and Mr. Beast said he wants to run for office we need speed against Beast decide well I'm voting speed yeah Beast Republicans speed China what's the worst you ever ruin someone's life I wouldn't say ruin someone's life I report critically on people

that are doing scams. On the for real tip, even if they're a bad guy, what's the most eviscerated you ever did? The way the attention economy works, like all press can be good press, so I don't know that I... So you're hyping. But I mean, I've gotten people's shows canceled, I guess, on, like, networks and stuff, I don't know.

What shows? I got the girls from the more... Pamela Geller's daughters. Do you know who Pamela Geller is? Famous... Just a crazy right-wing influencer, yeah. She has these two extremist daughters who had this podcast on Yahoo's network or something.

You got a podcast, Yahoo! Podcasts podcast. And now I think, like, somebody, their fandom, like, really hates me for that. I don't know who these people are at all. Pamela Geller went sort of- I know, Speed, Mr. Beast, pretty much. That's all you need to know.

LeBron, Luca. Well, yeah. Yeah. Jalen president. I know the sports world. You know that I did a story years ago for The Atlantic about how viral videos were making college basketball recruiters, like,

visit high schools that they wouldn't previously, because like these teenagers would go viral and like how that was affecting the recruiting process. Well, that's been like thrown into chaos now. Oh, now, yeah, I followed. Because they're NIL because they can make money now. So they have to like recruit four-year-olds. Yeah.

And like, I... They have to like pay off a corrupt family member of a four-year-old in the middle of Iowa or something. They're like, we saw you boy. But it's like interesting to see... You want to get him signed to CIA. No, literally. Yeah.

But also like they have... I went to see you Boulder and like we have Dion Sanders now. And like... Prime. Prime, Coach Prime. Which is, you know... But it's like interesting, like... Do you chill with Stainty?

Did I go? I don't think we... I don't know if we overlapped, but I didn't know him in college. His nickname was Zanex at his frat. Really? What frat was he in? I was a sorority girl in college.

What sorority were you? Alpha fee. Did we just break that? Scoop. Did we just break that? What was Alpha Phi? Like, Bitches.

Mean? No, it was... It was... It was chill. No, it wasn't. It was not. What did you guys do? They were bullied.

Who were you mean to? The ugly girl sorority? Everyone was really mean. It was like, I don't know, it was like the late 2000s. It's kind of interesting. It probably prepped you for like the world of journalism. Yeah. Yeah.

Greek life? Greek life, yeah. Why do you think that the right wing has done the internet better? Oh, they've always had a very personality-driven media ecosystem. I mean, even since the days of, like, talk radio. They've always... Rush. Yeah. Fire.

I mean, yeah. He did that job every day, geeked off of... He was like, future. He just hopped in the booth, perfect. Yeah. And he was on fucking perks. I mean, so many of them are just... March Madness.

Phenomenal, like, entertainers. And good at getting attention and good at having opinion. They also, because they felt like they never were going to get a fair shot from, like, the traditional media, which they feel like, which I think is. probably true. It's like very much more sympathetic to Democrats. Like they always had to build this alternative media structure. And they recognize the power of the internet really in the early 2010s. Like Bannon and you know this sort of like newer wave of people that that founded these digital media companies like realized influencer, they recognized influencer culture very

early. I guess like what is your prescription for how progressives can actually like get this back like or is it a lost cause no i don't think it's a lost cause should they start saying the n word also no because that's how the right the right might be winning like this girl on ticot i'm i didn't i don't think that's no you shouldn't obviously not there's this girl on ticot that's like the democrats need to be bullies and she came she got canceled recently because she was like and by the way i was popular in high school and it's not true that the popular people and everyone was just like why you're like 34 like why are you talking about you know all this stuff yeah you're gonna die earlier I probably well I

think you are I mean my immune system is like not existed no it's not even because that you're gonna die because you're because this is too much stress no stress I mean stress is a killer yeah sings are healthier than stress yeah I think I'm pretty sure I don't I live in LA I have a good life like I don't it's not I don't take it those people are so stupid over the I like L.A. Because it's... Let's do L.A. versus New York.

Let's go. No, I'm just kidding. What I like about L.A. is, like, it's just a little removed from the whole, I don't know. Media, D.C., New York, shit. It's true. They don't have any media in L.A. It's just... They've never made any movies.

They remember... Yeah. Are you going to make a movie? About what? The most harassed woman. Every time they wanted to do. I do. I don't know what you're going to do for the intro of this. Anytime someone does, like, an interview with me or whatever, it's like they have to do the super cut in the beginning of like, Taylor Lorenz, Taylor Lorenz, and it's just like, you know.

Do you ever want to be the least harassed woman? I don't think, I don't take, I don't care. Like, I don't, if people want to yell online, it's not affecting me. And this is what pissed me off so much about that MSNBC thing. Like, I don't care if people say all day how many times I trend on Twitter. It's funny to me. What I care about is people swatting my parents. you know like that shit's annoying when they they call in no it's like a SWAT it's a federal crime but it's they call on the SWAT team thing yeah and they like not that's anti-social well that type of shit they're doing that shit to my family members they're harassing people that just like yeah that's because you're playing in the mud with all these people

totally but I'm saying like that you feel bad a little bit because it's like you're engaging with the crappiest of the crap yeah do you say sorry you're like mom I'm my bad I don't well my parents thankfully like don't they're like go for it Do you realize the SWAT team was there? Well, it's happened a few times, but... Jesus Christ. But, yeah. So you've destroyed your family.

You're dying. You now have a debilitating disease. My family's... You're also going to... You're engaging with the scoundrels. You're disrespecting Peers Morgan, some of the finest people in our society. And Peers, if you'd ever...

If you want, like, I'm here. Here you go again, peers. Did you see they let me on Hannity recently? How was that? I was... I want them. put me back. He kept asking me like doing that. It must be so fun. I thought

it was a... Can you tell them to let me? 100%. The producer has not responded to me since I was like, let me know anytime. Because they talk about me all the time on Fox News and I'm like, put me on. If you're going to talk about me, like, let me say my part. The whole time Hannity is just being like, you know, don't you think Brian Thompson had a soul? And I don't know. It's just weird shit like that.

Oh yeah. You got in trouble for saying you felt happy that Luigi killed that guy? No, I said, I said. You were like, I love that shit. I felt joy that people were finally acknowledging the systemic violence of our health care system you felt joy in that yeah yeah which and he was like shocking he was like how could you use that word I haven't the fuckiest what what do you see the fucking NHS he doesn't even know how bad we have it I love peers dude yeah he's the man I still read the Daily Mail like top to bottom every day oh he was the

daily mail he was on Daily Mail yeah he had like a column he was really good friends with the old editor what would it what if you If you wrote an article about someone and they killed themselves, would you feel bad? Of course, yeah. I mean, if my article was, like, relevant to, if they killed themselves unrelatively. But, yeah, I mean, if I wrote something that ultimately led them to spiral, I would feel bad. This is, like, I think this is perhaps one of my greatest challenges, because you're perhaps the most media-trained guests I've ever had, because you're the media, the media, right? Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah, but I do think it's weird to be on the other side of things. Yeah, yeah. It's hard to interview, too. How the fuck do you? Welcome to the Thunder Day. I had to go to a Zoom improv class once. I didn't get this, like, TV. That made me with nauseous just now.

It was so bad, Adam. It was so bad. During COVID, you did UCB's Zoom improv? Dude, I don't know what was UCB. I didn't get this, like, TV contributor gig that I was up for, and the feedback was like, you're not good enough, like, on your feet. And so. Oh, to be like a, like, with a microphone?

Yeah, I was going to do. It was like this, like, TV hosting thing. Cool. Mario Lopez style. I, like, which I've done tons of, like, internet stuff like that. This was for broadcast. Anyway, and that was a feedback. And so they were like, oh, you should do, like, an improv class.

This was, like, April 2020. So I, like, Googled, like, improv. Yeah, I did a fucking Zoom improv. And two of the people in the Zoom improv were in the same room. That's one of the most loser sentences I've ever heard in my time. Well, that was my, that was like, I'm done with this shit. I did one class and I never went back. Don't be saying that in front of Tucker because he's going to kill your ass on that.

She did Zoom improv. What? I guess I have won, like, last question. What would you identify as like your project? Like what like what like obviously you have an ambition career-wise? There's a few things. I think I want to help people understand the internet. I want people to recognize the dynamics of our internet sort of help educate people about the attention economy and take it seriously. I mean I think I do think I've done a lot to help people understand

the media landscape differently than maybe they have. Now, more recently, now that people sort of seem, I feel like I've accomplished a lot of that. Like, I don't feel, I used to feel like, if I don't write this story, like, no one will cover it. Like, no one else covers this industry. Like, there's not that many reporters. Like, I have to do it. Now I feel like there's people covering that. Now I'm very focused on speech, free speech, and protecting free speech online.

Babies watching porn and stuff. No, I mean, just like civil liberties. Like, I, I think, like I said before, like liberals and leftists have abandoned so much of that and push this, like, bullshit moral panic stuff that's not based in reality and not based in any sort of science or anything. And so I care. I remember, like, government class when you learn about Skokie, Illinois. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always thought it was, like, so cool that, like, there were, like, lawyers.

A lot of them are Jewish at the ACLU that were defending Nazis. Yeah. That, like, their right to, like, march through a community, which I understand had a lot of Holocaust survivors. But having, like, a principle, like, free speech being paramount. But now that would... To me sounded like so. That's really dope. That, like, it's more important we protect this.

Yes. And even by standing up for the Nazis. So I kind of, I understand that as a progressive principle for sure. But most progressives today, I would argue, don't. Like, I think a lot of people on the left today would argue for deplatforming, would argue for censorship, they're arguing for these age verification law, these really dangerous internet bills that do want to strip speech rights. But these are corporations with profit incentives, right?

Exactly. And we should- Instead of punishing the users, which is what these speech laws do, they're not punishing the companies. There's a reason why Apple and X are backing a lot of these, like, you know, backing like the Age Verification and things like the Take a Down Act or whatever. Because it punishes the users, it punishes speech online. It doesn't actually fundamentally affect the business model. These profit-driven companies, they have no incentive

to protect free speech. If they get this law passed in Texas that they have, it's HB, I can't remember the name. I made a video about it recently. But they want to censor all speech about abortion online, criminalize it, essentially. And we don't have state-by-state internet laws. That will result in that sort of content getting censored

across the country. And Facebook doesn't care. They're like, OK, if the government says that, sure we'll censor it we don't care we're in the profit-driven business yeah we because you got you got muscles now in a chain exactly he's like no he doesn't care about he doesn't care he doesn't care none of them actually care about defending free speech but I don't think many people do care about protecting free speech outside of maybe fire and the Electronic Frontier Foundation and like a couple

organizations but like I'm talking about like activists like they don't care they're saying this bullshit about like we got a ban cell phones or whatever like it's just it's like it's I I really care about speech online and and if I had to sort of think about like I feel like if I have to pick an issue that I want people to understand it's it's that one yeah I just I worry I don't know I don't know much speech I just worry that people like just aren't people are people are being like freaks freaks people are being fucking weird and I think that like I mean I think it is bizarre to be like for zero dollars yes

at the government or like the president all day right I think that yeah I think it's like I can't understand but I think that everyone kind of like views things as like personal branding now and like but like I like it when things are normal and it's it's too weird you're in the wrong decade I think like I think a lot of the problems that people ascribe to the internet are broader problems with capitalism and I think we could have a less profit-driven internet and that would be a better internet how the fuck are you gonna do that we have we have we have I mean, we have systems like that.

We have, we have broker companies? No, but we have, right now we have a duopoly. I think it's interesting, by the way, that there's all this, like, antitrust conversation. I think that should have happened 10 years ago. I think the fact that so much of the Internet now is defined by, like, a very small amount of major social platforms that have, like, a complete dominance of the market and can act arbitrarily to some, you know. Like, I think that's bad. I think we should have more competition.

I think we should have more private spaces. I think users deserve more control online over their online experience. These are all things we can advocate for that would make the internet a lot less like the way that you hate, you know, that makes all of us miserable, right? Like it fucking makes all of us miserable. Like, but the answer is not to like eliminate the internet and censor speech. The answer is to set like, you know, regulate these companies in a smart and coherent way that actually targets the companies themselves and their business models.

And maybe also the answer is like if someone who has a job, they can't be doing that all day long, right? I feel like more jobs like require. require you to engage with the internet, though. Maybe it's just not enough jobs, so people are just like, I'm going to be on the computer. Too many email jobs. I'm going to be filming people, like, not wearing, you know, wearing someone telling me to put a mask on CVS,

and then I'm going to be in Congress in two years time. Yeah, that, I mean, but I think that that's the broader issue with, like, our attention economy and all, yeah. I also don't think we would have a lot of these problems if we had a coherent, like, so many of our problems are, I think if we had an actual populist movement, if we had a movement that was driven around class, solidarity, and workers' rights and things, like, I just think a lot of these problems that are sort of systemic problems that we view through the internet would not, would not manifest in the same way. So, but we don't have that. We have the Democratic Party instead. They're not doing anything. You're trying to get that DNC money.

How do you get it? You know them? I mean, how do you get it? You got to, you know. Taylor runs. I think it was very successful. Yeah. Thank you.