The Adam Mockler Show - Adam Mockler and Jessica Tarlov on Trump’s EPSTEIN SHUTDOWN

Episode Date: October 2, 2025

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I'm Jessica Tarlov, and today I'm joined by Adam Mockler. Adam, it's so good to have you on the show. Thank you for having me. I'm excited for this. Yeah, me too. I feel like, you know, you're the professional. So I'm going to do my best impression of a YouTube junkie, I guess. Well, I shouldn't say that.

Commentator, journalist. I'm the professional YouTuber, but you're like the professional television host. So it's interesting. I don't know. You looked like it last week on CNN. So getting there. It's day two. Congress is stuck.

Federal workers facing mass. Trump's budget chief Russ vote is using the standoff to flex his muscle. Apparently now Donald Trump knows that ResVote was in charge of Project 2025. That was a great revelation this morning. Republicans are nervous, but John Thune says Democrats handed him the keys. Let's watch the White House press secretary make that case. Is that real or is that a negotiating tactic? Oh, it's very real.

And the Democrats should know that they put the White House in the president in this position. And if they don't want further harm on their constituents' back, home, then they need to reopen the government. It's very simple. Past the clean, continuing resolution, and all of this goes away. We would not be having these discussions here at the White House today, if not for the Democrats voting to shut the government down. This is an unfortunate consequence. She's speaking like the villain and diehard. She's like, you made us do this. It's a hostage situation. We have to take it over. We didn't make you do anything. We just wanted health care for the American people. The way she's speaking is so villainous. Yeah, it's also

just very like North Korean. I mean, besides the diehard reference, everything that you see them imitating, I feel like you could always find in an authoritarian country that's like maybe going to take a question, but has the same answer no matter what you said to them in the first place. And I guess I kind of know the answer to this question. Like, do you think that that is effective pushback? Because we're seeing poll after poll, the Washington Post was out today with a 17 point spread between who the American people blaming for the shutdown with it being the Republicans,

Maris, New York Times, Sienna, Morning Consult, all putting the blame squarely on the Republican shoulders. But they're being pretty defiant about it. Yeah, these polls are putting the blame on Republicans. And it shows that the majority of Americans actually want these health care credits to be extended. So I think that it always looks bad for the party in power. And Republicans aren't doing themselves any favors. right now, their messaging is all over the place.

Donald Trump is posting memes, AI generated videos of Akeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer, and that's his messaging, apparently. Overall, it's not good. There's also this whole part where, like, Donald Trump is basically holding the federal workforce hostage. He's, like, holding a gun to them and using that as leverage to try to twist the arms of congressional Democrats, basically, like, I'm going to blow this entire place up. So I don't think it looks good for him.

but I don't know if it's going to have the sticking effect that it needs because they are in full swing trying to make it seem like this is the Democrats' fault. We have government websites or government agencies sending out emails saying that this is the Democrats' fault. So it definitely is a messaging battle. Yeah. I mean, they're also kind of blacking out the main pages of like the DOJ, HUD, some other government sites as well saying like this isn't working because of the radical left, which is a massive. of hatchback violation, but no one seems to care about any of that. The most persuasive argument I think that they're making as someone who hangs out, you know, in a more conservative echo chamber is about health care for illegal aliens. And some of it is completely untrue. Like they're saying,

oh, you know, look what New York State does or California. Well, like, yeah, we pay state taxes and our governments decide what we're going to do with those dollars. But they're pointing to what they say is like loopholes in what the Democrats said that they wanted to rescind from the big, beautiful bill to make sure that there are folks that are lawfully here protected like domestic violence, survivors, green card holders, et cetera, that they have access to health care. But then they're digging deeper into this idea of like, okay, well, who reimburses a hospital if someone who's here undocumented shows up and needs an emergency procedure. And it's leading to, I think, some really ugly back and forth.

where you have Caroline Levitt, the press secretary there, in another exchange saying, like, well, I'm not the one to answer whether everyone should get treatment. And it's like, excuse me, are you really going to start making the argument that if someone walks into a hospital, they shouldn't get health care? But there are millions of Americans in this country who think that or think you shouldn't be here. And if you are here, you shouldn't certainly be using our resources. Yeah, I think the amount of resources that are being used up by people.

who are illegally here is insignificant compared to what Republicans are actually trying to pull away. From my understanding, their problem is that this is, like you said, this is extended to include people who are not technically illegal, but who fall under like temporary protected status or asylum seekers. So their entire argument is very hyperbolic. They say that Democrats are trying to solely provide health care for illegal aliens and rip it away from Americans, but it's a lot more nuanced.

You laid it out perfectly. but it's nuanced in the sense that, okay, if somebody has temporary protected status, do they qualify for this exact thing? And I think when you break it down like that, a lot of Americans would probably still be for extending this exact thing. Or if Republicans want to propose a version that allows health care for Americans, but not this loophole, then I mean, we could do that. But from my understanding, that's not what they proposed. No, and I wouldn't even call it a loophole as just like reality. And I feel like whenever you're fighting with the Republicans, they just want to deny reality. safest place for me, I think, is that the Dems should just be, like, do a deal with us right now on the ACA subsidies.

21 million of the 24 million affected live in Trump voting states. And like, let's call it a day. And I think that should be the winning argument. I will say, though, it seems like they're kind of reveling. They're enjoying this shutdown in some sense. Yes, it generally will look bad for the administration and power. But Donald Trump right now is using this as an ability to push through a bunch of firings, or at least that's the idea that him and Russell Vought have. So if they're able to successfully do that, then I guess they get their

win of shrinking the government either way or maybe it's just entirely bluffing. But I mean, it seems like they're trying to execute on this. They're definitely having a good time. Or Russ Votis. This is his fantasy stuff. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about one other story, or maybe two others. Some Democrats think that part of the reason that Trump won't budge on the shutdown is political leverage. They can't swear in Rep. Grahalva won the special election last week or move forward on the Epstein discharge petition. Meanwhile, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnik is calling Jeffrey Epstein the, quote, greatest blackmailer ever, claiming the infamous sex offenders massage room may have been used to collect dirt on powerful people, which actually makes complete

sense, a stark contrast to FBI findings that say there's no credible evidence of a client list. Let's listen to Jamie Raskin breaking this all down. And it also is not lost on anyone that shutting the government down allows them not to swear in our new, colleague, Ms. Grijalva from Arizona, who would be the 218th signature to discharge the Epstein files and to put a vote on that on the House floor. So it's convenient for them to shut the government down and they're not interested in making government work for our constituents. What do you think about that thesis?

I think that Epstein is such a great blackmailer that even in his grave, he has Donald Trump sitting there squirming, trying to figure out what the hell to do. I mean, I think it all plays into it. They like to delay and play this game where they gain leverage through either not swearing people in or, you know, it reminds me of when they were trying, under Obama, Obama was trying to appoint a Supreme Court justice, Garland, and they stopped him from doing that. And then a few years later, they did the same thing when Ginsburg died. It just feels like they will use the tools available, whether it's delaying, blocking, playing

dirty, getting rough in the mud and not swearing people in to screw over Democrats at any chance that they can get. So I think it all kind of ties in. Is part of it due to Epstein? Yes, I'm sure that's why they're not swearing in the representative from Arizona. But I'm sure it's also because they want Russ vote to have his little playday. They, I'm sure, I don't know if they're enjoying the attention, but Donald Trump definitely is enjoying the memes that he's posting and, you know, jerking Democrats around. But when it comes to Epstein, yeah, Yeah, I didn't even think Donald Trump was that guilty. I was kind of agnostic on it until his reaction to this whole thing.

Every time he gets on camera, I become less agnostic about it. And I'm like, dude, what are you hiding? Why are you constantly fidgeting around? I was totally like that as well. And I thought, you know, we need to be very careful. Also, there are defamation laws, you know, about saying that everybody that fraternized with Epstein was part of this cabal. And then I'm looking at that birthday book.

And that's not everybody in his orbit. but it's a lot of people who he was close to in very big positions of power that blatantly knew that he was grooming young women and like having them service him. And the story does just keep getting worse and worse. And so, you know, I don't want to be a big conspiracy theorist about it. I've, you know, given up hope on there actually being a pee tape. But I have become a bit more into the Epstein plot line than I ever was before. And seeing Cash Patel deny before the Senate that there was.

was any trafficking going on when like Galeen Maxwell is sitting in a cell, granted, a nicer cell than she used to be in for sex trafficking. You think like what is in the files and those emails are terrible. I'm sure you saw they came out last week where he's like actually asking about sex trafficking laws, just like in print. I did see those. When it comes to the birthday book, just the context of it in the year that it happened. If I sent like a dirty joke to my friend when I was 19 years old, that's different.

But when Donald Trump. I was like yesterday. Adam, you should use a better example when I was 12. Yeah, a few years back. But no, no, but this is, okay, this is the peak of Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking. This is like when he's basically running his operation in

the early 2000s. He's really ramping it up there. And Donald Trump knows that Virginia Dufre was groomed off of his place. Like he must have known at this time. He sends this secretive letter saying we have things in common. When you add

this all together, it's like not only did you know, but what secrets did you have in common? And how come 20 years later, you can't talk about it without crashing out every single time? Yeah. He does kind of short circuit, though increasingly, I feel like he seems like he's short-circuiting no matter what he's talking about. He needs a medbed. Last thing I wanted to ask you about, woke Pope Pope Leo rules. He's kind of like since he came into office, I feel like he's been mixing things up. But his comments this week about how you can't be pro-life if you're for the death penalty and also if you're in favor of treating immigrants in the way that the United States government has been as really rattling people and

I feel like, you know, drawing lines in the sand because obviously there are a lot of Catholics who are conservative. And I mean, I'm enjoying it, everything from the Apple Watch to the commentary. But are you pro-woke Pope? I think it's good to have a moral beacon at least somewhere, some sort of moral center. But I know, you know, it's funny. there's definitely a huge group of religious people who now look at Donald Trump as more of a leader for them than the actual Pope

because they think the Pope was too empathetic or too woke and they think Donald Trump is tough and he gets things done. It's just insane how much this has been inverse. But yeah, it's good to have some moral clarity out there, I think. Like, do you think, I mean, I think all the things that you do

where I mean, we're aligned about that. But I wanted to pick up on what you said about how so many people have turned to Donald Trump as their religious leader. And you see all the iconography around it and the prayer circles and, you know, people treating him like a prophet essentially. And do you think that that ever stops? Like, is there, I know we've been saying this kind of for eight, nine years, but like, is there ever a breaking point with that or Donald Trump will, you know, go to his grave whenever that is. and I hope it is a long time from now with people feeling like he's their savior. Interestingly enough, I thought there was a chance during the Epstein stuff that a lot of people

were going to break away and gaslight and be like, oh, I never liked him in the first place. But at this point, I think it's going to be the Reagan effect where to a certain group of Americans, he's always seen as this icon. And if January 6 couldn't have breaking that, like if January 6th, an actual insurrection attempt, and to lie about the election can't break that spell, then I'm worried that history may be divided on him. I'm worried that in 40 years, how Trump is covered may be reliant on basically,

like how your parents talk to you about him. I don't know. There will be objective reporting about him, but it's the same thing with Reagan. You know, I have friends in high school that thought Reagan was so cool because their parents used to have, like, photos of him. And then I had friends in high school,

I used to think he was like a terrible person or whatever. So it's just, I think it's going to be something like that. I think the spell will remain. And it's rather scary that he can be a, at the very least, covering up pedophilia, allegedly covering up pedophilia. And they still are just like, yeah, he's a great guy. Yeah.

Or at least you guys are worse. That's what we have to work on, that you guys are a worse part because too many people that feel that way. Adam, thank you so much for coming on. This was great. Let's do it again soon. Okay, great.