The Adam Mockler Show - This Man is TRUMP'S WORST NIGHTMARE (Ft. Ben and Jerry's Founder)

Episode Date: October 10, 2025

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You guys are going to enjoy this conversation. At a time when we all need moral clarity, I had the honor of speaking to Ben Cohen from Ben & Jerry's about his political activism, his leadership, and much more. I urge you to watch until the end, drop a like and thank you all. I am incredibly honored today to be joined by the co-founder of Ben and Jerry's and the Ben and Jerry's Foundation, Ben Cohen. How you doing today, sir? Adam, good. Good to be with you. Thank you so much for making the time. You know, I think everyone in this space that I inhibit has looked up to your business for a while as a beacon of progressive values, which is amazing.

First of all, thank you for being such a great advocate in this space. But I want to ask you a broad question. You know, my mom is a leadership coach, and she was asking me, from a leadership lens, how have you maneuvered this ability to stand firm on pro-democracy values, speaking out during times that matter, while also building a company that seems to be bigger than itself? It's huge. Yeah, it's really been kind of amazing. I mean, we didn't really plan on all this happening.

We started off as a little homemade ice cream parlor in an old gas station in 1970. 78 and that's that's all we were thinking of being um then one thing kind of led to another uh but i think the key is having a having a mission that uh includes progressive social values that the purpose of the business is to work for progressive social values along with making great ice cream and along with making a profit because if you don't make a profit you can't do anything um so you know one i mean there there had always been this idea that i think the business community put out that it's not possible for a business to work to improve the quality of life from the community because that would take away from

making a profit and uh what we discovered is that if you put your mind to it if it if it's if you focus on it, that both things reinforce each other. And, you know, it's interesting. Well, I mean, one of the things that's interesting is that all business, well, I don't know about all businesses, but most business corporations are incredibly political. They're very, very active politically. They determine who gets elected through campaign donations. They determine what laws get passed through lobbying, and they determine the information that people get through ownership of the media.

So, you know, the difference is that in general, business takes those stands in its own narrow self-interest, and they do it covertly. They don't particularly want people to know that they're controlling our elections and our legislation. Ben and Jerry's takes political stands overtly and does it not in its own narrow self-interest, but in the interest of the community in general. And what the community has said when they, you know, vote with their wallets and their mouths, is that they like it. i mean it's it's interesting i mean you know sure not everybody agrees with the values of ben juries but a heck of a lot of people do and when you know when you you know a business is always trying to form a relationship with its customers and you know so typically they hire

PR agencies and advertising agencies to come up with some cute or emotional or funny stories, a lot of which are just make-belie. And that forms kind of an ephemeral relationship with their customers. But when your relationship with your customers is based on shared, deeply held values, that's pretty much the strongest relationship that you can make. And I don't know, it's kind of a beautiful thing. I mean, you know, you call it a virtuous circle or something. It's incredibly beautiful.

And I like how you respond it. So a lot of critics will say that businesses should stay out of politics. But as you pointed out, businesses are oftentimes involved in politics in a more private, or narrow way, while you guys take public positions on social issues and use that to drive your narrative. And it's really, I really like the framework you laid out between the evolution of like capitalism and advocacy evolving into each other, that you don't have to, it's not a zero-sum game where the people at the top have to be screwing people over that you can actually have these things coincide in such a way that you're building your business, you're succeeding, but your

success lifts up other people and pushes a narrative. I really do like that framework. And I wish more leaders in America or across the globe would take that stance rather than pushing as hard as they can in a zero-some way, right? Exactly. I mean, I really appreciate you using that phrase zero-sum game because, you know, that's what I've been thinking a lot about in terms of how Trump is, you know, driving the foreign policy, the economic, policy, the war policy of the United States, that, you know, there's a, there's a way of relating to the world that's cooperative where, where you're helping people in the world. And, you know, I mean, the amazing thing that we found at Ben and Jerry's is that, you know, as you help people, they kind of like you. And, you know, why not relate to the world, that way as opposed to this zero-sum idea that in order for me to do better, I have to screw you.

You know, Trump wrote his book, what, the art of the deal. And one of the parts in that book is he says, you know, there's a lot of people who say that a good deal is when both sides walk away happy. He says, that's bullshit. A good deal is when you get everything you want and the other guy is screwed. And now that's the way he's running the country. Now he's placing tariffs on every single country except for Russia and North Korea for some reason. But yeah, if people were less zero sum in general, the leaders, I think the world would overall be better. Trump, if he understood that trade, that engaging in trade with allies helped both countries, it would be helpful.

in the same way that if Elon Musk, for example, understood that you don't have to go hard all of the time, it would probably help people out. Can I ask you, what's an important political issue in this very moment in October of 2025 that you think some business leaders should be paying attention to? Or what's been on your mind lately? Well, I mean, very lately, it's that thankfully, and, you know, due to the, amazing outpouring of outrage from millions of people around the world, there's finally a ceasefire in Gaza. And, you know, I read the paper and, you know, they all call it Trump's peace plan, thanks to Trump. No fucking way. You know, I mean, that thing never would have happened without the incredible uprising of

millions and millions of people all over the world, shutting down governments, people sacrificing, getting arrested, people getting fired, people speaking out for truth and justice. And finally, they got their governments around the world to recognize Palestine. None of that stuff would have happened without the power of the people without the power that the people showed

and so anyhow that's kind of what I'm thinking about that's a great answer I'm incredibly grateful for the peace deal and that is a really good lens millions of people made this happen I find it kind of disgusting and disturbing when people try to credit Trump

when he spent the past year posting AI bombing the fucking crap out of these guys bombing the crap out of them But the thing is, while he's bombing them, while children are being actually starved and, you know, blocked off from aid, he's posting AI videos. AI videos of the quote unquote Trump Gaza Strip or whatever with like him and Netanyahu dancing, we're supposed to believe that this man was taking things seriously and was pushing this forward when, like you said, millions of people across the globe pushed for this. It's just, it's disturbing how people then credit Trump. Yeah. I mean, the other thing I've been thinking about, as you say currently today, is you break, you fix.

So, you know, the U.S. went to its bottomless pit of spending for war and weapons and says, oh, yeah, Netanyahu, you want to, you know, kill huge numbers of people and you want to destroy the entire infrastructure of a country. we will give you unlimited supplies, courtesy of the American people, to do that as a gift. And, well, you know, yeah, that's, I mean, that's kind of, I'm speechless. Yeah, there shouldn't be. But the other side of it is, okay, let's dig into that bottomless pit, and now let's give that money to Palestinians so that they can rebuild their place. in the way they want it built and instead of providing them with bombs provide them with all the tools you know i mean this idea a country can you know pursue a war destroy all this shit and then you know just

kind of walk away and say well the international community you know we only get volunteers you know Let's take up a donation to help these guys rebuild all the crap we destroyed. That ain't America. I think in the immediate term, America needs to recognize Palestine as a state, like ASAP. But Trump is currently, didn't he try to sanction Canada for recognizing Palestine as a state? It's just, it's absurd. And we need Israel to at least be a part of the rebuilding process. I mean, I don't want them to be too involved because, you know, but like there needs to be some reciprocation.

Like, hey, we destroyed your country. And America can hopefully fund it as well because we can send bombs over there. But yeah, it's incredibly disgusting. And that actually brings me back to the broader topic. Most business leaders would not have the moral clarity to speak out about that in the way that you just did. A lot of business leaders think that it's too divisive. And I just think that it's incredibly amazing how you're not only able to be a beacon of clarity, leading people, but also building something that's massive. Yeah.

Well, thank you. Thank you very much. I mean, the key is that it's like at the very top of the strategy, of a company's strategy. You know, most companies, they only have one mission. Make as much profit as possible, pretty much as much short-term profit as possible. And so if you, you know, if that's the mission of a particular enterprise, of course, they have no morals. I mean, of course, you know, I was so happy and felt really encouraged that after the murder of George Floyd, all these corporations came out with these wonderful statements about diversity, equity, and inclusion. and we're going to diversify our workforces.

We're going to diversify our supplier bases. We're going to help people that we've formally been discriminating against. And, you know, that was beautiful. And they actually, I think they started doing that stuff. You know, banks said that, you know, we're going to loan money to people who we formally, you know, kind of discriminated against. And then Trump comes in, says, DEI bad. And they all say, okay, no DEI for us. And but then I understood it. They don't have a social mission. They only have a profit mission. And if the current

wins, say, get rid of DEI, okay, get rid of DEI. And they just follow the wind. I guess my final question would be from a little bit of a personal lens. What advice would you give to me? I'm a 23-year-old dude who owns my own business. We're scaling it rapidly. I mean, just a little bit about me. I live in Chicago. I run this YouTube channel that I started when I was nine years old. I used to make these Minecraft videos, right? And then all throughout middle school, I remember getting kicked out of class for debating gay marriage with my teacher. And I wanted it to be legalized by the Supreme Court. And he didn't. I don't know why we were debating. But then when I graduated high school, I realized I can start this business, this online business of video creation and

debating and talking to Trump supporters. And now we're scaling rapidly. So with a little bit of that context, what advice would you give to someone who is building a team under me, editors, and trying to push my own social mission? And I feel like I hope to be in this game for a while. So what's your advice? Well, I mean, it's great to hear that you, that you've been doing this for so long and you began at such a young age. You know, you're talking about, you know, what you were doing at the age nine. You know, at the age nine, I was making. making copper enamel jewelry and bringing it into school to sell. Well, that was entrepreneurial.

Well, yeah, but you're doing better stuff. And I appreciate it a lot more. You know, my experience in business is that it's all about the people. It's all about the people that you hire. And, you know, you say that you're scaling and you're starting to, I guess, I guess, hire more people. And, you know, there was a time in Ben and Jerry's history when we were growing very, very rapidly.

And the problem of hiring a lot of people fairly rapidly is that, you know, if you're starting off really small, in terms of your culture, in terms of your values and beliefs, and the way you work, you know, it's the people that are currently in. in the business that carry the culture. And if you end up hiring more new people than you have old people, the culture kind of changes.

The culture shifts because mostly what you've got is people from the outside with their outside culture coming in and it's changing yours. And it's particularly problematic. uh if um if the values if the culture of of your particular operation is not like you know is contrast with the general culture yep uh so that's what we found at benjuries i mean the other thing that i mean you're lucky your mom is a leadership coach so she can help yeah exactly i didn't have a mom like that and uh i could have used it

that, you know, there were two, you know, I went through all these trainings and I read all these books and worked with all these consultants. I came away with two things. One is that when you're giving people feedback, it's like a bank account that when you give them positive feedback, that when you give them positive feedback, you're putting money into the bank account. And when you give them negative feedback, you're taking money out. And you can't take money out before you've put money in. Yep. Can't run a negative balance. You want a surplus.

Yeah. That's right. And the other thing is, you know, I would, you know, I had really high standards, you know, for myself and, you know, everybody else. And I expected that people that I hired, you know, of course they should be doing their jobs. And, you know, and I would walk around and I'd find whatever's not going right. And I'd focus on that. And that's not such a good way to do things. I saw this, you know, this article that talked about catch people doing something right

instead of catching them doing something wrong. And, you know, so that's what I... That's really strong advice. For my 74 years, that's what it came down to. That's really strong advice. As I build, I'll continue to keep all of that in mind. I appreciate this time more than you know. Thank you for the chats.

And I hope we stay in touch and continue to talk. Really good talking with you. Take care. Bye, bye.