The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - Barbara McLean, with her husband, retired doctor Thomas Wils

Episode Date: May 6, 2024

Barbara McLean, with her husband, retired doctor Thomas Wilson, has been running a sheep farm in Ontario for 50 years. What changes has she seen over the years? Jeyan Jeganathan talks to McLean about her life on the farm, and her plans for succession, and other topics from her book, "Shepherd's Sight: A Farming Life."See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Open your mouth. There you go. Open up. Okay. Just put that down. Just swallow it. There you go. Barbara, thank you so much for having us at your home. Let's get into it. How did you get your start with this farm?

Well, I think probably what started first was an interest in moving back to the country which happened 50 years ago. Traveling through areas where there were sheep, spending time in the country, spending time in Ireland in a cottage with a thatched roof and no amenities, no running water, no electricity, and finding that that kind of life suited me. And then just having an opportunity to come back to Canada and to look for a farm. Found a farm we could afford, and here we are.

Tell me, what did you know about farming 50 years ago? Pretty much nothing. I did not know the difference between hay and straw, which is a kind of critical thing that you need to know. Hay is what the animals eat. Straw is what they lie down on. So you don't want to mix those two up. No, I really knew nothing.

The Agricultural College is an hour away. I was able to take courses. I think the most important thing were my neighbours. And they're gone now. They lived around the corner. And as soon as we arrived, they were here. They sent their son over, I think he was 12, on his bicycle to kind of check us out, offered to sell us milk, which is, of course, illegal.

And they just let us come over and do things in their barn. And in fact, they got an awful lot of free labour out of me. I was throwing hay bales that were 60 pounds. It was very primitive kind of farming at the time. But I learned so much. They had a mixed farm. They had all sorts of different animals, milked a few cows. They had pigs. They had chickens. And it just, I loved it. They were so great. When you were starting out, It just, I loved it. They were so great. When you were starting out, how did you know what animals you wanted to keep,

what type of farm that you wanted to actually have? Well, I was always interested in wool. I was a knitter since I was a little kid, and my grandmother taught me how to knit. And when we were hitchhiking around free camping in Scotland, you'd wake up, you know, the sun would come up at four in the morning, and the lambs would wake you up because they got lost from their mothers and they're bleeding away. And they were gorgeous. And there was wool stuck on the fences and on the hedgerows, and you could just pick up this wool and kind of twist it.

It just seemed the perfect thing for me. Now, this is a particular type of sheep that you sort of sought out. Tell me a little bit about that. Well, we didn't actually at the beginning. I mean, all, and I shouldn't say all sheep, there are more and more hair sheep now. There were sheep that shed their wool because wool is of so little value in the Canadian market, the world market really. But at the time, almost all sheep, had, any sheep around here had wool. I didn't care, any kind of wool. So it was after we'd

had those sheep for the first 10 years or so that I wanted better wool, and I changed the breed of sheep to get the wool that was better for spinning. And what type of sheep is that? They're border Leicesters, so they come from the borders of England and Scotland and Leicestershire, and they have a long, they're known as a long wool fleece, so their fleece can be about this long, And they have a long, they're known as a long wool fleece, so their fleece can be about this long. And it has a lovely crimp in it, which is like the curl in it. And it's lustrous, lustrous lusters.

So they're very shiny, makes beautiful, beautiful yarn. And you can pull that out, usually, and just start spinning it. That will come out. And then, you know, wash it or whatever, and there you go. It's lovely to spin. It just spins itself. If someone was to come to your property, what would they see? Well, right now we have 18 sheep. We've got 17 ewes who are all bred, as far as I know, one lamb that I didn't expose to the ram, and one ram.

So usually we always had around between 20 and 25, so we are cutting back a little bit. Personalities? Definitely, they definitely have personalities. They're sheep I remember from, you know, 20, 30 years ago. I remember specific sheep, the ones that always got out, the ones that would lead the flock, the ones that were got out, the ones that would lead the flock, the ones that were

particularly gorgeous or friendly. Right now I'm quite fond of my ram. He's very friendly to me, not necessarily like men as much, but I can cuddle with him, so that's fun. The one who's sick right now, I have one who's ill, she's lovely, she lets me approach her and look after her. And then there's, you know, there's a stubborn one or one who's ill. She's lovely. She lets me approach her and look after her. And then there's, you know, there's a stubborn one or one who's pushy and pushes everybody else out of the way for her food, that kind of thing. Your book, Shepherd's Sight, you

break down the chapters by the months. I'm curious, you know, each month brings its unique challenges and great, great stories. What would you say are the most challenging months? Oh, lambing. Absolutely, lambing. So in the book, it was in April. But by the end of the book, I say things like maybe we'll lamb in May.

And that's what we've been doing since then. Because with climate change, April has been just so unpredictable. And it's very cold and stormy sometimes. And as they get older, it's a whole lot nicer to be out in good weather. But with lambing, you're out there all the time. I mean, you can be out there all night sometimes, and checking in the middle of the night, and checking at 5 in the morning,

and staying up late to check. And they're difficult lambings, where I have to get right in there and move lambs around and change their position before I can deliver them. Yeah, it's challenging. You didn't spend a lot of time on the farm in the early days because you were busy being a doctor. Yes. There were a couple times in the past where I had a full waiting room in the office and I'd get a phone call from whom and I were in the middle of a lambing in the farm. And I'd go out and say sorry I got

an obstetrical emergency gotta go it's all right to go home it's helpful in your book uh you're quite honest in sort of the the day-to-day uh sort of chores and tasks and and challenges at some point we describe it there are some that sat at at points. When we talk about, you know, just the deterioration of our bodies and health, where do you get the stamina to keep going? I don't know who I'd be if I didn't do this, for one thing. And I think everyone faces that at some point in their lives. But it also keeps me young in a way. I mean, I have a purpose. I have something I have to get out there and do. I can't just say, well, I'm going to sleep in a way. I mean, I have a purpose. I have something I have to get out there and do. I can't just say, well, I'm going to sleep in this morning.

I mean, I've got to get out there and I've got to feed those animals. And just the physical work of it keeps me fit. I walk every single morning. I don't care what the weather is. I do care, but I go anyway. And right now we have this puppy we're fostering, so I have to go and take her for walks. But I do it anyhow.

I don't have to join and take her for walks. But I do it anyhow, and I just, you know, I don't have to join a gym to stay fit, and that is, that helps. I'm hoping you can describe some of the changes you've noticed in farming over the years. It's been like an industrial revolution, actually, in agriculture. And more than that, it's the kinds of farms. When we first came, there were still a lot of hundred acre farms, family farms, where they would have mixed farming. We don't use technology to any extent. I mean, I will certainly Google something immediately if I need to know it. But we have square bales, the old fashioned square bales. Because they come from a bale thrower, they're lighter, they're about 35 pounds, which is great because I can handle that. And same with

this draw. And I mean even just in terms of keeping records, most people will use computer programs for that. We don't. I have a binder. I can write down the date, something that's happened, and then I can follow that through. And right now I have this ailing ewe in the barn and I can look back to 2018 when she was born because this is my little lambing record that I keep with me in the barn during lambing. And I write down who the ewe is, who the ram is, the date. I give the lamb a tag number

and I write down if it's male or female. We know it's not a secret that Ontario farmers are aging out. From your experience in farming, is that becoming an issue in the province? Is this a conversation that you've had with other farmers? Oh absolutely, absolutely. It's worrying. You know one of the things that's hardest for me is I've lost my mentors. There aren't any older farmers now for me to consult. And that's a real loss.

Now I am mentoring myself to a certain extent, which is great. Come on, Ants. There are a few farm families around here that are going through the generations and they're getting up to about five, which is wonderful. But they're big, you know, they're really big farms with thousands of acres.

And that's what they have to do to make a go of it. And you know the price of land. I mean, nobody can afford to farm, to buy a farm outright. It's almost impossible. I mean, this farm was, you know, less than a year's wage. I harbour a specific succession wish. There's no chance of my own children farming. They love lambsquarters, but they have other landscapes, lakes, mountains.

Fields and meadows are their past, not their future. The grandsons, however, are as yet undetermined. They're young enough to influence, and I do my best to encourage their love of the land. Ever since they could walk, they've gone right in with the lambs, meeting them at eye level, holding out a hand to be inspected. When bigger, they could pick them up, hand-feed a bottle lamb, help a ewe to settle. And now they get right in and help with a difficult lambing, catch and hold a big laboring ewe. They love to feed the sheep, at first standing on old milk crates to reach the feeders, then

throwing hay by handfuls down into the outside mangers. Now they handle heavy bales, right at the same time that I find it difficult. I'll need their help, and I hope I've groomed them well. This dream is unlikely, really. The farm is not big enough to support a family. And will their future choices allow for country life? The farm magazines are full of advice for succession. How to hand over the farm to a daughter, a son.

But it's financial information, not emotional currency they address. I've seen what happens to gardens gone derelict when the gardener dies or moves away, to old bank barns that have been abandoned when the last farmer sells out to agribusiness. And I maintained hope that my grandsons Ian and Alistair will keep this farm in their hearts if not with their hands. What do you say to the 20-year-old Barbara, who had no idea what she was getting herself into, and just that there's going to be 50 years of challenges,

but also successes? I think I'd say, lucky you. It's going to be a great ride. The Agenda with Steve Pakin is made possible through generous philanthropic contributions from viewers like you. Thank you for supporting TVO's journalism.