The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - Can Bonnie Crombie Defeat Doug Ford?

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

It's Day One of the 44th Ontario general election and it's not an exaggeration to say the newest member of the Queen's Park leaders' club has a daunting mission ahead of her. Bonnie Crombie has been the Liberal leader for just over a year. But unlike the other leaders, she is now seeking a seat for the first time and very much hoping to bring her party back to official party status, which it hasn't had for two consecutive elections. Let's find out what's up her sleeve. Here's the Leader of the Ontario Liberals, Bonnie Crombie. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Matt Nethersole. And I'm Tiff Lam. From TVO Podcasts, this is Queries. This season, we're asking, when it comes to defending your beliefs, how far is too far? We follow one story from the boardroom to the courtroom. And seek to understand what happens when beliefs collide. Where does freedom of religion end and freedom from discrimination begin? That's this season on Queries in Good Faith,

a TVO original podcast. Follow and listen wherever you get your podcasts. It's day one of the 44th Ontario general election and it's not an exaggeration to say the newest member of the Queens Park Leaders Club has a daunting mission ahead of her. Bonnie Crombie has been the liberal leader for just over a year, but unlike the other leaders, she is now seeking a seat for the very first time and very much hoping

to bring her party back to official party status or more, which it hasn't had for two consecutive elections. Let's find out what's up her sleeve, shall we? Here's the liberal leader for the Ontario grits, Bonnie Crombie. Welcome back to TVO. Thanks for having me, Steve. Well, for the last 13 months, you've probably been asked about a thousand times, so where are you running? Where are you running? And you always said, somewhere in Mississauga. Now we know. Mississauga East Cooksville.

That's correct. Why that seat? You know what? I love my city. I love every corner of Mississauga. And I can't wait to put my name on a ballot to represent the people of Mississauga once again. So it could have been anywhere, quite frankly, but we had very strong candidates come forward in the other ridings. And so it's Mississauga's East Cooksville,

and I'm really excited. It's close to home. I know the issues. I know the people. Of course, I've had a huge presence in the community for many years, attended all the barbecues and picnics and ribbon cuttings. You saw who they're running against, Jay.

I did see that. I don't know if it was- Patrick Brampton, Mayor Patrick Brown's You saw who they're running against, Jay. I did see that. I don't know if it was... Patrick Brampton, Mayor Patrick Brown's mother-in-law. Yes, yes. Well, they were always going to run someone. Yes. Is she tough competition for you? Well, everyone's tough competition.

I take every race seriously, and you know I work very hard to win, and I will. I will win my seat and hopefully win the election, too. Let me ask you one more about that, and then we'll get on to issues and I will. I will win my seat and hopefully win the election too. Let me ask you one more about that and then we'll get on to issues because look you're a huge name in Mississauga there's no question about that but the PC party in the last election won every single seat in Mississauga and Brampton and Halton. So clean sweep. Did you consider maybe running somewhere else and not in Mississauga given that? Yeah, never. Never. Mississauga is my home. It's where I built my political career. I love the people of Mississauga and our candidates

even in the last election came a very strong second so I know they're going to win this time. Okay, on to the biggest issue for day one to be sure and that is the election call 16 months early. What do you think of that? Well let me say off the top, I'm not fighting Doug Ford on tariffs. I'm fighting him on Doug Ford's Ontario and what he's done to our province since he became Premier seven years ago. You know, I ask people every single day, is their life more affordable today?

And the answer is no, not in Doug Ford's Ontario. I think it's an unnecessary election. I think it's quite reckless to hold an election right now. I don't see another premier across this country who would consider this action. When we need calm, stability, firm, but calm resolve, we need security. And we need to have a united front to present to the federal government who will present our perspective when negotiating south of the border with President Donald Trump. That's why he's calling the early election. He says he needs a refreshed mandate to deal with the Trump tariffs. We can talk about that. That refreshed mandate will cost the people of Ontario $175 million. That on top of the $7 billion of waste that we've uncovered and we

can talk about that as well. It's unnecessary and it's reckless. He has a strong mandate. That's what we call a majority government. He gets to govern until June 2026. That is what a majority government is. To throw us into an election now is really reckless. We need him here at home protecting jobs, creating jobs, working with the federal government, and having a united front to present that united front. He has been getting some decent notices for the way that he is sort of talking tough at Trump in a way that I guess a lot of people say the federal government

has not because there's a power vacuum there with the liberal leadership happening right now. Do you give him any props for the way he's handling the Trump situation? What I don't give him props for is the way that he's handled Ontario. You know when I look around I hear from people because I'm present in the community you know I go into the grocery store into local metro in the pharmacy and I see moms putting meat back in the freezer. I see people not purchasing things because they can't afford them and they'll say, oh Bonnie you're our former mayor, you've got to do something. I can't pay my rent and my cell phone bill and buy groceries at the same time. That's the

reality of Ontario today. The two and a half million people don't have access to a family doctor. We know that another three million may not because their doctors are of retirement age. Our healthcare system is crumbling. Our education system is crumbling. We see overcrowded classrooms. The infrastructure, the school buildings themselves are crumbling. People are losing the dream of owning their own home. Steve, I've got three kids.

Two of them got married this summer. Congratulations. Thank you. And those two both want to start a family and purchase a home. And they said, Mom, you've got to do something. We've lost the dream of owning a home. And so I challenged my team, and we can talk about that policy. We will. So when I look at, you know, Doug Ford said he'd end hallway medicine.

He didn't get it done. He said he'd lower taxes and he didn't get it done. And he said he would build 1.5 million homes and he didn't get it done. Quebec, Alberta and BC are eating our lunch. They're eating our lunch. They're, you know, building 30% more homes than we are. We're a drag on the national average. This has been the worst year, last year, 2023, since 1955.

So he didn't get it done. This is the state of Doug Ford's Ontario, but he would prefer to argue on the basis of national unity and fly the flag. And let me say, wearing a ball cap and slapping a label on it is showmanship. It is not leadership. And what we need right now is strong leadership in the province of Ontario. OK, you've raised a bunch of things.

Let's start to pick those apart. Health care, yes, you're right. Six and a half years ago, he pledged an end to hallway health care. Clearly, that has not happened. However, I did see the former Liberal Cabinet the Liberal Health Minister, federally, Jane Philpott, have a news conference with the Deputy Premier and Health Minister Sylvia Jones the other day in which the former Liberal Health

Minister gave Ford kudos for what he was trying to do on primary care reform. Again, you give him many props for that. Well, let's say he turned to a Liberal to help him reform health care. He did, that's true. You know, the issue was this, Steve, too little too late. He said seven years ago he was going to fix hallway medicine which means you know improving the staff, hiring more nurses, hiring more doctors, improving access to primary care teams and family docs. If we had more family docs in Ontario right now, people wouldn't be waiting in hospitals

to be seen 10 and 12 and 15 hours. Can they fix that? They can have the budget to fix it if they didn't waste so much money. So yesterday, they acknowledged finally that a great deal, 300,000 people in Ontario didn't have access to a family doc. The number is more like 2 and 1 half million.

But OK, they've made that acknowledgment. And they put a number to it. That number, 1.9 billion, is the same number they wasted on expediting the sale of beer and wine. That would have bought 1,400 family docs. That's where I would have invested the money, and I will do that day one. Because my pledge to people is a family doc within four years.

That's my priority. I think what we need to do is get the basics right in Ontario. Health care, education and building homes, making life more affordable for people. That's what you will see in our platform when we release it. I'll say it again, health care, education, affordability and building homes. That, those are the basics of a foundation of a prosperous economy. Not running around and pretending you're waving a flag. It's not even, let's be honest, Doug Ford has a very small role in this. He's providing input to the federal government. Our Prime Minister, while he's still our Prime Minister,

and Dominic LeBlanc, our Finance Minister, will lead this charge and will be doing the negotiations. Let me follow up on health care. I'm not Doug Ford. I'll follow up on health care in as much as I've talked to pollsters who say health care is so complicated and people don't believe anybody can solve it regardless of party stripe. So if you want to make the focus of your campaign health care, is that a shot across the wrong bow in as much as you may think you've got a good story to tell, he thinks he's got a good story to

tell, but the public doesn't seem to think anybody's got a good story to tell. I disagree. I think that health care is the key issue facing Ontarians today. Look what we saw in Walkerton 10 days ago, two weeks ago. Over a thousand people were lined up outside an auditorium to register for the newest family doctor. We saw seniors with their walkers, some in wheelchairs, bundled up in parkas. We saw moms with young children in their snow suits,

in their strollers, waiting six hours in a snowstorm for access to a family doctor. So I will challenge you that that is not the case. People want proper health care when they need it. They do, but what makes you think you can do better? Because I have a plan and we'll put the resources and financing behind it. I won't waste $7 billion, the two billion that we saw on expediting beer and wine to his buddies, the CEOs of Costco and Walmart and 7-Eleven. That was two billion dollar waste of money and the FAO confirms that number.

Financial Accountability Office. That's correct. He's a government watchdog. Then we saw two billion wasted to a foreign-owned spa at Ontario Place. And then if I may, three billion dollars wasted on pre-election checks. That's seven billion dollars wasted. Our plan is three billion dollars and that money clearly exists since it was frittered away on giving taxpayers money back to them. Listen, I'm all about giving money back to people because I plan to cut their taxes and we can talk about that as well. Let's follow up. What taxes would you cut? And we will. However, the $200 check is great this month.

It'll top up your groceries, maybe help you with your rent. What about next month? So our plan is to cut family income, middle income earners by 20 percent. So everyone earning 75, their first $75,000 and less will see a 20 percent reduction in their taxes. I'm also going to take the HSD off home heating and hydro. We're also going to cut... Can you do that? I can't do that.

You have to get the Fed's permission to do that. I can do that. I'm also... Well, you need the Fed's to do that, right? With a harmonized sales tax, you can't do that on your own. They're going to take it off, the're going to take it off the federal portion, we'll take it off the provincial portion. And we're going to cut small business taxes in half, right, from 3.2% to 1.6%. That is $1,050 back to people annually, almost $100 every month, not a $200 check once.

So let me ask you the bigger philosophical question here, which is it is an interesting strategy for liberals to try to play the tax cut game against conservatives because conservatives think they own that issue. Well, they don't. Well, I was going to ask, are you, in the same way that it's dangerous for them to compete with you guys on health and education, is it dangerous for you to try to compete with conservatives on tax cuts? I'm a different kind of liberal. I think we've established that. Well, you're wearing blue for starters. That's one thing. Oh, I didn't recognize that, but thanks.

You know, I'm very centrist, middle of the road. I'm worried about all Ontarians. I'm very fiscally responsible. As you know, as mayor, my training was under Hazel McCallion, who we both adore, and the anniversary of her passing is today. And so we're thinking about her. And I've never run a deficit, because I wasn't able to. The anniversary of her passing is today. And so we're thinking about her.

And I've never run a deficit because I wasn't able to as a mayor. Municipalities can't do it. So for me, whatever revenue you earn is the money you spend and it has to go to the greatest good. So those are my principles. People should understand that I was a business person for the first 20 years of my career in my life as well. I have an MBA, a director's degree. I sat on a lot of boards, public and private boards. And I led the city very confidently.

Our tax rates were very low because we were very careful. We were strong stewards of people's money. So I'm very fiscally responsible, but of course, I'm socially progressive. I'm a different kind of liberal because I'm going to have policies for business people, for businesses as well. I'm a business person by background.

So it's a different orientation than we have seen in the past from liberal leaders. So when you first won the leadership and you were here 13 months ago and I said to you, or I asked you, is your party too woke? Has it been in the past? And you said yes. And I said, okay, where's the evidence that it's going to be a more centrist, sort of radical middle party? Now you're seeing it.

Now we're seeing it. Now you're seeing it. As the platform is evolving and we're rolling out policy, it took a little while to get there. And don't forget, I did travel the province over the past year, listening to people and their issues. I particularly love going into the small towns and the northern communities. I love talking to the farmers and hearing what their needs are. It's been a long time since

liberals talked to farmers and I said we're going to be there for you when it comes to business risk management, when it comes to protecting farmland, when it comes to succession planning. They need arbitraires, the beef farmers. I understand their issues and I want to speak to them and I want to help the farmers of Ontario as well. Let me ask you about this. And this is your first campaign as leader. That's right.

You were a member of parliament. I was. Which meant a lot of traveling from Mississauga to Ottawa and back. And then you were city councilor, so that was a lot of within Mississauga. And then the mayor of Mississauga, which was a lot of within Mississauga. Now you are traveling across, I mean there are some ridings in this province that are the size of France and Germany combined, right?

It's massive. What surprised you the most about having to go all over the place as party leader? And what a beautiful and wondrous province we have. So much potential. All these small towns and some of them once so prosperous, but maybe not so much potential. All these small towns and some of them once were so prosperous, but maybe not so much anymore. What struck me is the issues were on parallel with everything

I see in the larger urban centers. And let's not forget, I was chair of the big urban mayor, so I know acutely well the issues of the big city mayors. But the smaller towns and smaller municipalities and the northern communities were new to me. And my gosh, so beautiful. But at the same time, the issues that we're experiencing here, access to family doctor, access to healthcare, you know, classrooms that have strong educators with education

assistance in them, with good strong infrastructure involved, the cost of housing, the cost of building supply chain issues, affordability, if we think things are not affordable here in the South in the GTA, imagine what it's like in Canara and Rainy River and in further north in Sioux Lookout when they're flying food in. We think I've seen six dollar head of lettuce here that of course I couldn't afford to purchase. But I imagine what it is up there. It's so much more expensive. So the issues we're seeing here are far more acute. When we talk about the inability to build homes, even tougher in the north, we've got to fix those issues. We've got to solve them.

And luckily I have a plan. Every poll I've seen, and we don't spend a lot of time here talking about polls, but every poll I've seen has Doug Ford in the Conservatives in first place. Yeah. If he's been as awful as you seem to think he has been, why is that the case? I don't think people were paying attention. I'm going to answer this question rather than brush it off. I think they've also spent hundreds of millions of dollars on advertising the provincial ads,

ads about me, etc. But people weren't really engaged. I think they were also more focused on federal issues in the federal political game and I've seen and I've heard from all my candidates at the doors there's been such a significant shift lately when we're door-knocking people want to engage. They're hearing it's real and they want to talk about it. They're hearing about those federal and they want to talk about it. They're hearing about those federal candidates. Hey, some of them are really interesting.

Let's talk about those. Oh, you're a province. Is that that Bonnie Cromby woman from Mississauga? Seen her on TV. Yeah, she's talking about health care. Thank goodness somebody is. It's shifted at the door. And I'm really pleased about that.

And let's be honest, the only thing that matters is the poll on Election Day but I'm gonna I'm gonna be talking about the issues that matter to Ontarians because I want to fix the basics because you know what if you can't get the basics right you don't deserve a job but you can't focus on the other things and I want to build a prosperous economy this is the business person in me and this is the mayor in me too attracting investment from the outside to come in to create jobs so everyone can thrive. And I remember, I remember attracting, there was a life sciences company that had signed with New Jersey. So I just want to suggest to you, I've done negotiation from different levels of government with different levels of government, business to business,

and also across the border as well. They were going to New Jersey and they were Brazilian based. And I flew over there to meet that CEO and I explained the benefits of investing in Canada and then talked about how great Ontario is but Mississauga was the key. And after I spoke with them, they broke the deal and Mississauga got that $58 million investment. That's the kind of mayor I was. That's the kind of premier I will be. I'm going to go eyeball to eyeball and cut deals with CEOs to bring investment here to Ontario.

When you were the mayor, that was a nonpartisan job. You are now the head of a political party. And if I may say, a political party whose brand has been really quite damaged by how long Justin Trudeau remained as prime minister when, you know, by the end I think 80 or 90 percent of his caucus wanted him out. How much of an albatross around your neck has he been? Is he continuing to be as you press your case? I will say, as I had just said to you, that things are really changed at the doors. Even from the past month there's a real warm reception. They're eager to engage on issues that matter to them.

And we're hearing about number one, health care. Can you get me a family doctor? You know I was in the grocery store yesterday, Steve, and Bonnie, you were our mayor. Can you help me? I don't have a family doctor. Do you know anyone that might be taking new patients number one access to medicine access to a family doctor a health care team or lowering wait times in the hospital number two our education system crowded classrooms education assistance

not present affording a home aff affording their rent, affording their groceries. These are the issues that matter to Ontarians and these are the issues that we are going to address in our platform. So in our last minute then, what's the ballot question as far as you're concerned? Doug Ford's had four, well he isn't Doug Ford, Doug Ford's had seven years in fact. He said he'd get it done. He didn't get it done. I ask you, is your life more affordable today than it was seven years ago? Clearly the answer is no.

He doesn't deserve to be reelected. He said he'd end hallway health care. He didn't get it done. He said he'd cut taxes. He didn't get it done. I will. He said he'd build 1.5 million homes. He didn't get it done. I will. He wants to distract build 1.5 million homes. He didn't get it done.

I will. He wants to distract with playing on the team Canada. The basics are crumbling here in Ontario. This is where his focus needs to be and should be and should have been for the past seven years. Not on booze, which he loves, bike lanes, big spas, and rich buddies, because that's been his focus. The Bs.

Not the basics. I'm about the basics. A different bee. A different bee getting the basics right. Gotcha. That's Bonnie Cromby, the Liberal leader for the province of Ontario, seeking personal election in Mississauga, East Cooksville. As I will say to all the leaders when they come in, stay safe on the campaign trail and thanks for being here.

Thanks for having me.