The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - Can Mike Schreiner's Greens Put Doug Ford to the Test?

Episode Date: February 13, 2025

After 15 years at the helm, Green Party Leader Mike Schreiner has put issues such as climate change and the environment on the agenda at Queen's Park. They've also been elected in Kitchener Centre and Guelph, and now hope to pull off a victory in Parry Sound-Muskoka. Can the Greens successfully increase their seat count at Queen's Park in the upcoming Ontario election? Host Steve Paikin asks: Mike Schreiner, leader of the Green Party of Ontario, running for re-election in the riding of Guelph.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

After 15 years at the helm, Green Party leader Mike Schreiner has put issues such as climate change and the environment on the agenda at Queens Park. The Greens have also broken through, winning seats in Guelph and Kitchener Center and hoping for more in this election. How's that looking? Well, let's ask. Mike Schreiner, who's also running for personal reelection in the riding of Guelph, and it's good to have you back here in that chair. Hey Steve, it's always a pleasure to be here at TVO. You know, as I read the intro, 15 years, you've been leading this party 15 years, I can scarcely believe that. Does it feel like it? At times, but you know, I still love the job and I think I still look pretty young and full of energy.

I don't know, what do you think? I think for 55 you're looking just fine. Well thanks, I appreciate that. You are right. 55, okay. You are right. Let's start with this. Doug Ford called this election 16 months before he had to.

What do you think? I think it was irresponsible for the premier to call an election at a time when we're facing this tariff threat from Donald Trump. We should be working across party, jurisdictional, and sectoral lines to show strength through unity to push back against Trump's tariffs. Instead, the premier is selfishly called this election to protect his own job and get out ahead of the $8.3 billion Green Belt scandal.

You can read the polls as well as anybody, and you know that he has been, I'm sure, even anecdotally in your travels. You find people saying good things about the way he has stood up to Trump, particularly given what many have observed is a leadership vacuum in Ottawa because of what's going on there. You prepared to give many props for that?

Well, I'm prepared to hold the premier accountable for the cost of living and affordability crisis that we have in Ontario right now. The housing affordability crisis is the worst it's ever been in this province. Our health care system is on the verge of collapse. We have students being forced to learn in overcrowded classrooms and we frankly need to

protect Ontario from Doug Ford's attack on our farmland, our wetlands and the places we love. This election is about Doug Ford's record and the people of Ontario deserve a fair province and they're not getting that with the current government. Some of those things would clearly be his fault. Some of those things would probably not clearly be his fault. I mean, for example, if the price of everything is too high, the price of everything is too high in every country in the world right now. You can't really blame Ford for that, can you?

Well, you can blame the Premier for the fact that housing starts are up across Canada, down a historic lows in Ontario. Housing prices are at historic lows in Ontario. Housing prices are at historic highs in Ontario. Matter of fact, Ontario has some of the highest housing prices anywhere in the world. I keep putting forward solutions like legalizing missing middle and mid-rise housing, the Premier says no. Protecting renters, the Premier says no.

Actually starting to get back into building deeply affordable non-profit and co-op housing, the Premier says no because he's consistently put the interests of wealthy land speculators ahead of everyday people just looking for a home they can afford. Is there any issue you think he's done a good job on? Blaming the Prime Minister for a lot of the problems in Ontario Steve and I think people are starting to wake up to the fact that housing is provincial jurisdiction, health care, education, those are all provincial jurisdiction even though the Premier's done a good

job of blaming the Prime Minister for those challenges. Okay let's ask a little bit about you here because I don't have to tell you the Green Party has been running candidates in the province of Ontario for I think about 40 years now and you have never won more than one seat in a general election although I hasten to add as you no doubt would you did pick up a seat in a by-election in Kitchener Center oh what about 15 months ago or something like that. I guess people are wondering when's the Green Party going to make some kind of breakthrough, right? Beyond just one seat here, maybe a second seat. Why hasn't it happened yet?

Well, you know, it's happened in other provinces and it will happen in Ontario. I mean, the Greens have been the official opposition in PEI, currently hold the balance of power in British Columbia and have done that in the past. You know what? We're the only party that's doubled our caucus since the last election. That's very cute, Mr. Shriner. You went from one to two. People said that a Green would never be elected in Ontario, and then a Green was elected. People said, oh, you're not going to elect a second. Now we have two.

We came very close in Perry, San Francisco in the last election. We're running strong local champions, proven local leaders in writings across the province, and especially in places like Wellington to Halton Hills, where we have Councilor Bronwyn Wilton running, Dufferin Cowden, former mayor of Orangeville, Sandy Brown running, Ruth Creightow in Sound, Councilor Joe Loheed running, and Matt Richter,

who almost won last time, is running again this time in Perry Salmascoca. So we're excited and optimistic about our opportunity to grow the Green Caucus. I appreciate the enthusiasm, and I don't want to burst your bubble. But Matt Richter last time came second, running in a seat that did not have a former sitting member. It was an open seat.

Now he's running against a cabinet minister who's reasonably popular. You still think he's got a shot to win that seat? Absolutely. All of our numbers show that. And Steve, I know there's a lot of snow up in the Paris Almas Goker region right now. But go up and look at how many Matt Richter signs you see out

there, 400 or 500 volunteers every day out knocking on doors. There is a ton of enthusiasm. And part of it is people are feeling abandoned by the Ford government's focus on Toronto. People in Paris Almas Goker are saying, why is he spending $2.2 billion on a mega spot on Toronto. People in Perry Salmascoa are saying, why is he spending 2.2 billion dollars on a mega spot on Toronto's waterfront? Why is he spending

tens of billions of dollars putting a tunnel under the 401? Why is he spending 50 million dollars ripping up bike lanes in Toronto or 10 to 12 billion building Highway 413 when we're struggling in Perry Salmascoa to keep our roads and bridges open, to ensure people have access to health care, our children are learning in overcrowded classrooms and so many people in the riding can't afford a home. Why isn't the Premier focused on those issues instead of things in Toronto that people in Toronto don't even want? Okay let's talk about, because you did a big platform drop today, so let's dive in on some of the issues and Nick Nanos who put out

something the other day suggested health care is the number one issue in this campaign right now. Beyond the tariffs actually, health care number one. What's the biggest change you'd like to see in health care in Ontario? That Ontario no longer is last in per capita funding for health care and that we invest in the people who deliver that care. The biggest challenges we're facing, whether it's hospitals, access to primary care, long-term care, community and home care, is the fact that the Ford government's wage restraint legislation led to many people leaving the profession. Nurses,

PSWs, other frontline healthcare workers, they felt disrespected, overworked, underpaid. We have to fix that. If we don't care for the people who care for us, we're not gonna fix a healthcare crisis. It starts with primary care, but it flows out to all sectors of our healthcare system. The other parties have had a lot to say about how to get more family doctors

in the province of Ontario. What's your take on that? You know, the biggest thing is is we have to recruit and retain family doctors and when I talk to family doctors one of their biggest barriers is the administrative burden. I was just meeting with some family medicine students the other day and asked how many of you are actually going to go into primary care? Less than half of them raised their hand. Because they want to be specialists?

Well no actually a lot of them said because the administrative burden as a primary care doctor is so high we don't get paid for it. So let's not only expand the number of family doctors, but let's put that in team-based care. Let's have nurse practitioners and other health care providers operate at their full scope of practice. Let's reduce the administrative burden on family doctors so we can roll that out across the province and ensure everyone is connected to a family doctor, nurse practitioner, primary health care clinic.

That will take pressure off of our hospitals, our home and community care system, and our long-term care system. What is the biggest issue in education today you would like to see tackled? Reversing the four governments $1,500 per student cut to education. That is why you're seeing overcrowded classrooms. That's why you're seeing a lack of educational assistance and other support workers. And sadly Steve, we're seeing an

increasing level of violence in schools, partly because students don't have enough caring adults in those schools. We have to stop saying that the solution to that is for teachers and educators to wear Kevlar and we have to say the solution is actually investing in more caring adults to teach our children in classrooms that are not overcrowded. Let me just figure out how you want to pay for all this because if we're spending $80 billion in healthcare right now and you say we need to spend more and you're talking about making up a $1,500 per pupil spending gap in education so that will cost billions more. Yep. Where do we find that money? Yeah well Steve part of

it is is let's reverse some of the revenue tools that Doug Ford's taken away. I'm the only MPP in the legislature that said we shouldn't get rid of these license stickers. That is well over a billion dollars every year drained from Ontario's treasury. We should stop subsidizing electricity prices for people with six and seven figure incomes. That costs over $7 billion that can be invested in health care and education.

And we have to bring more fairness to our tax systems. We're going to be asking the wealthy to pay a bit more in Ontario so we can make the investments we need in our public services so people have homes they can afford, access to health care, and our children are learning in classrooms that are not overcrowded. Would you have done the $200 sending a check out to all taxpayers? Absolutely not. You would not have done that. You know what I think is so unfair to Ontarians is millionaires and billionaires like Galen Weston got those $200 checks.

The very same person who's gouging people at the grocery store. And I'm thinking, how is this fair for the 81,000 people who are experiencing homelessness right now in Ontario? How is this fair for the 70,000 young people who are on a wait list for autism services or the 30,000 children on a waitlist for mental health services. Let's invest in the people of this province instead of election gimmicks.

Let's do something on housing here. One of your party's first campaign announcements was unveiling a housing plan that would remove the land transfer tax for first-time home buyers, and you already mentioned allowing fourplexes across the province. How would you mean the the current government is against that? How would you implement that? Yeah well we would just pass my bill that would legalize fourplexes and four-story as a right in the province and legalize missing middle

housing in large urban areas. The province, the provincial portion of land transfer tax takes legislation to change that. We would remove development charges also for homes under 2,000 square feet, built within existing urban boundaries. We incentivize the building of starter homes without paving over our farmlands, forests, wetlands,

green space, green belt. And we would replace that money with an affordable communities fund to fund infrastructure in municipalities. Those changes can save first time home buyers up to $150,000 on their house. Those are real savings at a time when we need to have generational fairness. A whole generation of young people are wondering if they'll ever be able to own a home.

We have a whole generation of seniors wanting to downsize and can't afford to downsize because they can't find a home in the community they live in. We have to fix this. Ontario Greens will get the job done. This is a tough tightrope to walk because on the one hand, yes, you want to get housing prices down so that people who are not in the market can get in.

On the other hand, people who are in the market and have homes do not want to see prices come down because in many cases, you know, their home is their pension or their, you know, this is their future income. How do you walk that tightrope and satisfy everybody? Well, see, there are a lot of parents like myself who have a 25-year-old living at home wondering if they'll ever be able to afford a home. I want her to be able to afford a home. That's why we're talking about creating more housing choices and options.

Right now, too many people have to choose between a tall condo building or low density single family sprawl and long expensive commutes. That is why we're saying, let's build fourplexes. Let's build six to 11 story along major transportation corridors and large urban centers. Let's create more housing types and options for people to make housing more affordable, because that's

what generational fairness looks like. Your party, I know you certainly started as an environmental party that concerned about climate change and the future of the planet. You've obviously branched out to cover well you've got a position on pretty much everything nowadays I guess I'm wondering that the difficulty is again if you go back to the pollsters they will tell you that all of the issues that are sort of one to eight right now are not necessarily the issues

that the Green Party is perhaps best associated with. You're best associated with climate change, global warming, democratic reform, the environment. Those are well down the chart right now. So how do you break through on the issues that are kind of 1, 2, 3 right now? Yeah, we're laser focused on affordability and connecting affordability to climate. So for example, if we build homes that people can afford in the communities they know and love without

long commutes, that reduces transportation emissions and it helps protect the environment that protects us. If we help people save money by saving energy, we have a plan to provide households with incomes under $100,000 a free electric heat and cooling pump. That will save them up to 13% on their energy bills. We have rebates for electric vehicles. If you have a heat pump in an electric vehicle, you can save between $500 and $777 a month. Our plan helps people afford things

that will help lower their costs. And that's how you meet people where they're at, while at the same time lowering climate pollution. I don't like to talk strategy too much with the leaders That's how you meet people where they're at, while at the same time lowering climate pollution. I don't like to talk strategy too much with the leaders, because of course, you're focused on policies and issues. But the fact is this campaign is almost half over, and the polls haven't budged at all.

And I know that polls are a reflection of what people thought yesterday, not an indication of what they might do two weeks from now. But I wonder how frustrated you are that this election, having been called to the dead of winter, means people may not be paying as much attention as they otherwise might be. And how do you break through?

Yeah, well, you know what, Steve, as you know, polls, especially provincial polls, look at the province as a whole. They oftentimes don't dig down in deeply into individual writings. And in the writings we're targeting, we're very confident with the numbers we're seeing and the enthusiasm and volunteers we're seeing in places like Perrystown, Muscogee, Wellington, Halton Hills, Bruce Graham Sound, Dufferin Cowden, my re-election in Guelph and Ashland's in Kitchener Centre.

And so that's not always reflected in the provincial-wide polls. And so as you know, voters are going to decide. You can start voting right now if you want. Go to the returning office. But on February 27, voters will make their decision. There's still two weeks left in this campaign. There's two provincial leaders debates. And a lot can happen, as you know,

in two weeks in politics. Of course. But how do you explain the fact that the Premier's party at the moment, by every poll I've seen, he's in a very strong first place position? If he's as bad as you say he is, explain how that's possible. Yeah, I think the Premier has effectively put the blame of many of people's frustrations

and challenges at the doorstep of the federal government, even though almost all of those are provincial jurisdiction, and really rest with decisions the Ford government has made. It's my job as an opposition leader to take that message to the people of this province and to offer the kinds of solutions the Greens are putting forward on housing, healthcare, education, protecting the environment and the places we love in this province.

Okay, let me raise something with you here that I'm not advocating. I'm just asking a question about it, but I wrote a column about this several months ago and it got a lot of feedback, and so I want to put it to you. You know that there is no government ever in this province that is elected with more than half the votes. They always, because of our first-past-the-post system, is elected with more than half the votes. They always, because of our first pass to the post system, get elected with less than half the votes. If you and the liberals and the new Democrats had some kind of non-aggression pact in which you kind of divvied up the provincial map and said, oh, we're strong here, so we're

going to put our candidate here, and you guys don't run, and you're strong over here, so we won't run a candidate here. In other words, if you stopped splitting the progressive vote three ways, you could defeat this government. Why don't you do that? Well, first of all, Ontario Greens, we run candidates in every riding, and at the same time, we're open to working across party lines with the other parties. But, you know, it takes two or three to tango. And I will tell you, and I've been very open and transparent with folks,

about the writings we're focused in on. I think I've rattled them off a few times here today. And, you know, the other parties are going to make the decisions that they make. No, I understand that. But did you ever go to either of the other two progressive party leaders and say to them, we need to do a, we need to do business differently here, or Ford's going to win again?

Did you have that conversation with anyone? You know, I have publicly said on many occasions that I'm open to figuring out ways the progressive parties can work together. Does that include strategically? I'm open to those kinds of conversations. What I know right now is we're laser focused on increasing the Green Caucus. And we know that we have great opportunities in Perry Salmoscoco,

Wellington Alton, Dufferin Calladine, Bruce Gray-Owen Sound, re-election. You'd have a better shot if you could convince liberals and new Democrats not to run in those ridings. Did you have that conversation? Those are decisions I'll have to make, Steve. I know, but have you had that... I mean, did you ask them not to run candidates there? And in exchange, you wouldn't run candidates somewhere else? I'm not going to ask another party to do things that may or may not be in their interest,

but I have been clear, Ontario Greens are willing to work across party lines to put people first. I do get that and I don't mean to beat a dead horse here. But I just hear, you know, we are going to have all three opposition leaders on this program and all three of them are all going to say we're a better option than Ford and you're all going to split the, whatever it is, 55% of the vote that he doesn't get, which means he wins in a first past the post system. So again, not advocating, but just wondering why you guys are banging your heads against the wall

the same way election after election after election and expecting a different outcome. Well, I would say, why don't we change the voting system to make it more democratic and have proportional representation so the legislature actually represents the democratic will of the people of this province, which we don't have right now.

It's unfortunate that the prime minister promised that in 2015, failed to deliver on it. I think Canadian democracy would be stronger. And especially at this time, we are seeing threats to democracy emerging, especially south of the border, but around the world. I think we need to take action to strengthen our democracy and improving our voting system is one way we can do that.

Thank you for humoring me on all those policies, all those questions about strategy but anyway I'll leave it there. Mike Schreiner as I will say to all the leaders who come here be safe on the campaign trail we wish you well on election day and thanks for spending some time with us at TVO tonight. Hey, my pleasure and I bought new snow boots for this campaign so I'm good to go. You're gonna need them, that's for sure.