The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - Can Outdoor Festivals Be Sustainable?

Episode Date: June 10, 2024

The season for outdoor events and festivals is near. Yet the aftermath of most events shows overflowing waste bins and loose litter, not to mention the carbon emissions released to run the event. Some festivals are only doing the bare minimum when it comes to practicing sustainability but there are several who lead the charge in implementing green initiatives to minimize their ecological and carbon footprints. For insights we welcome: Kate Johnston, executive director of Hillside Festival, and Pam Carter, president of Mariposa Folk Festival; and avid event volunteer and Masters of Environmental Studies, Gabriella Dee.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Yet the aftermath of most events shows overflowing waste bins and loose litter, not to mention the carbon emissions released to run the event. What can festivals do to implement green initiatives and minimize their ecological and carbon footprint? Let's ask. In Kingston, Ontario, via Skype, Gabriella Dee. She's an avid festival volunteer with a Master's in Environmental Studies from Queen's ask. In Kingston, Ontario, via Skype, Gabriella Dee. She's an AVID Festival volunteer with a Master's in Environmental Studies from Queen's University. In Orillia, Ontario, via Skype, Pam Carter, president of the Mariposa Folk Festival. And with us here in studio, Kate Johnston, who's executive director of the Hillside Festival, which is where, Kate?

It's in Guelph. In Guelph, Ontario. Beautiful. which is where, Kate? It's in Guelph. In Guelph, Ontario. Beautiful. And to Gabrielle and Pam, thanks for joining us here on TVO tonight for what I would suggest is a timely discussion,

given all of what's about to transpire in our province. So, Gabriella, to you first. Why is sustainability important, in your view, when considering hosting these kinds of festivals and events? Well, as we know, there's a huge issue with the environment. And we want to be as sustainable as possible with everything that we do. And these events can create a tremendous amount of waste, as you mentioned in your introduction. So trying to keep these festivals as sustainable as possible is very, very important. And also it increases the participation of people who want to come because especially

young audiences really want to come to festivals that they know are going to be as green as possible. Well, let me follow up with Pam on that. Is that in fact the case? Do you know for a fact that people care how environmentally sensible these festivals are? We do. Mariposa does an audience survey post-festival every year, and we always ask questions on sustainability

and environmental responsibility. So I totally agree with what Gabby has been saying. And I think patrons want good value for their entertainment dollar, but they also have changed their expectations and they want events that are environmentally responsible. We have some examples of that very thing. Kate, we're going to show some pictures here. Have a look at the wall in the studio over there at the monitor. And Sheldon, if you would,

let's bring up some of these pictures and you can, okay, take us through this, what we're looking and give a bit of a description for people who are listening on podcast right now. Absolutely. So yeah, what we can see there is a reusable stainless steel Hillside mug. So one of the green initiatives that we've implemented at Hillside Festival is that we don't serve any of our alcoholic beverages in cans or in a throwaway red plastic cup. You have to purchase or bring your own stainless steel mug.

And through the ingenuity of some of our brewery partners, all the alcohol is served, you know, poured from a tap. And that way we eliminate even the recyclable aluminum waste, we eliminate that at our festival. Okay, what's this next thing here? So again, at Hillside, we, again, through the ingenuity of decades of volunteers, we actually, on site, we have a four-stream trash management system.

So what you're seeing there is what we would call a trash turnaround. They're found throughout the entire festival. So we're separating out garbage for landfill. Any recycling we do have, we actually compost on site. And people do this? And people do this. But the best part, the best part is the fourth one, which is our reusable dishes. Well, okay. I think we got that shot here too. Volunteer dishwashing with, is this with solar powered water heating? Absolutely. Again, we're very proud at Hillside Festival to offer, we have absolutely no single-use dishes of any kind. We only use reusable cups, plates, and cutlery. And these are washed, these are used in our food court

throughout the island, and they are washed on site by up to about 200 volunteers for about 8,000 people over the weekend. It's pretty amazing to see in action. And people don't mind doing this? Absolutely. It's one of our most popular volunteer crews. People apply months in advance to be on our dishwashing crew. You know, we have a mind to making it a place to be and making it fun. From our dishwashing area, you actually have an amazing view of our main stage performances. So we really, you know, we incentivize, you know, wanting to participate in that.

Okay. Pam, I want to put you on the hot seat now here. And we've got some shots from Mariposa. So let's bring these pictures up, Sheldon, if we can. This is, I gather, a hydration station for reusable water bottles. Take us through that. What are we seeing? Well, I echo Kate's remarks about the ingenuity of volunteers. A number of years ago, when I first started coordinating the festival, when I came back post-festival, there was a mountain of single-use water bottles.

So we had a conservation club who partnered with us, and they went to one of the local water stores, and they developed this, what was originally a counter with commercial spigots to fill water bottles. And from that, we've not looked back. We are water bottle, single water bottle use free. And we provide free water to our patrons and communicate every year, please bring a reusable cup because we will not be having single use water bottles. All right. Let's go to the next picture, Sheldon, if we can.

And I see two people on a bicycle and I see a cell phone charging station and I presume there is some relationship between the two. What's going on here? That's right. That's right. A number of years ago also we partnered up with a local business to have people-powered phone charging stations. So to get off the grid to try and use as little power as possible and it's a really popular station artists get on it patrons get on it and they ride they recharge their phones or their ipads and it's it's just been a great addition to the festival you got any other sustainable stuff that you do at mariposa well we do all kinds of things we've got shuttle buses we've got

a bike lock up for people to ride their bike. We encourage alternate transportation modes for stewardy certified paper for our products. And all of our serving ware is compostable. So we don't use any. It is single use, but we don't use any plastic or polystyrene. So everything that the patrons receive their food or drinks on is all compostable. And we have about an 84% diversion rate from the waste landfill station. Gabby, what do you think of those numbers? That's all amazing. I help volunteer at the Skeleton Park Arts Festival, and we try to do a lot of similar things. We also have Utilities Kingston comes with this little water truck that has spigots on the side where you can drink from a water fountain or refill a reusable water bottle because we also do not serve water, but there's free water available. And in conjunction with all the food vendors, we make sure that everything that they use to serve our patrons on is compostable. No plastics basically are allowed at the festival at all.

And I also volunteer at the Memorial Center Farmers Market, and which is run every Sunday, just once a week. But we also started to implement reusable dishes. So we have real dishes, real cutlery, real cups that are used by the vendors to serve the patrons who come, who are going to be eating at the market. And then I have the thrill of helping to wash all of those after the market day is over. So, but it's great because I really, my little station is right next to the garbage can. And it's amazing to see that not get filled and just, you know, try to fill the compost bin instead. Great.

Yeah. Kate, there are obviously going to be hundreds of festivals all over Ontario as the summer approaches. And I guess I'm wondering, this is all very impressive, but how many festivals actually do what you and Pam are doing? That's a great question. I think it's certainly something that's on every festival organizer's mind. But, you know, as much of a struggle as it was before the pandemic, it continues to be a struggle. Just like in our day-to-day lives, usually purchasing the more green or sustainable option usually is the more expensive option. And as festivals, I think festivals are really struggling financially after the pandemic. I'd

be curious to ask Pam what she thinks, but certainly it costs about 40% more to put on a festival now than it did in 2019. 40 percent. 40 percent more. That's certainly true for Hillside Festival. So you can just imagine the pressures that event organizers are under to, you know, keep their events financially sustainable, but to invest in those green and sustainable, you know, initiatives. So I think that, I think a lot of festivals have it on their minds, but they might not feel like they're able to, you know, invest in those initiatives, especially at this time. Pam, you want to follow up on that? Yeah, I would agree with what Kate's saying. When I put my order in this year for our compostable

products, I had a bit of sticker shock for sure. But we're committed to the process and we'll continue forward. And our audience has bought into it as well. So they expect it. So it's something that we'll continue to do and we'll look for ways to economize. And just two years ago, our board of directors had a strategic planning session. So we now have a committee on our board of directors that's looking for sustainable options. So we can't rest on our laurels. We have to keep moving forward to seeing what other ways can we be more environmentally conscious. So we'll continue to do that work as well. Gabby, your efforts and the efforts of Pam and Kate are admirable. But again, I come back to the question, how many festivals, in fact, across Ontario are taking this approach?

What can you tell us on that? I don't really know the number, but it seems that from what I've read, a greater and greater number are starting to do this kind of thing. And from what we've heard from everybody else as well, one of the really important things to try to make a festival more sustainable is the need for volunteers, because when you are washing dishes, when you are sorting your different waste streams, you need volunteers to really help do that. And one of the amazing things that festivals

such as Hillside does and Cloud9 that I helped with last summer also did, is that they provide incentives to volunteers, right? So they don't have to pay for the full price or any price for admission. It's a barter system, right? So you get the volunteers to want to come in and want to help and want to do the things that they think are important,

but you give them something in return, such as a perfect view of the stage at Hillside or something like that. Got it. That's really, really important. Where's Cloud 9? What kind of festival is that? It was a very small festival that was north of Kingston. They did have a certain amount of like carpooling to try to help and it was onsite. So there was camping as well.

I really just helped with the waste area of it with the food vendors. And what they did in that case was they actually got a company to come in and supply reusable dishes and cups for all the food vendors. So and then the company came and took them back and washed them so that they would get reused. So we didn't wash anything on site, but I helped sort everything on site. And they did that so that there was essentially very, very little garbage and no garbage at all from the food vendors. Pam, do you offer incentives to your volunteers to get them to show up and help out?

Yeah, we certainly do. They get a free festival pass, you know, the commemorative T-shirt, those sorts of things. Mariposa has become a real community. People come from across the province and even from out of province and internationally to volunteer. And it's almost like a homecoming. The community is back together the week of the festival for setup. So they've really developed a camaraderie and relationships with each other. So that also goes a long way.

Kate, how about for you in Guelph? Do you offer incentives to make sure people show up and do their part? Absolutely. I would put forward that Hillside has one of the sort of strongest volunteer programs in the province for volunteers. We currently have about 1,500 volunteers that we welcome every year, and we have multiple hundreds of people on a waiting list. So it's absolutely definitely echoing what Pam has said,

that it's really a community feel. I think you can really differentiate the festivals that are creating this. You know, we call it we create a village on an island. You know, other festivals, they create a village on an island. You know, other festivals, they create a village in their area. And it's that sort of aspect that you're coming not to just see one particular artist or not to just do one particular thing, but you're coming for the entire experience. You're coming to volunteer and to be part of something. And, you know, we really see that that's sort of what people are looking for at our events.

Did I hear that right? You have a waiting list for volunteers? Yes, we do. We feel very lucky. Not everybody who volunteers actually gets to volunteer? Absolutely, yes. Okay. Tell me, like, what's your background in this? Because, like, why would, how did this become a big deal for you?

For me personally? Yeah. Oh, I mean, so, you know, I'm a musician myself. I grew up in southwestern Ontario. And, you know, I think like many people, I, you know, attended my first music festival, you know, around the age of eight or nine, attended with my family and just so much more than, you know, going to a concert to see a particular artist, which of course is amazing and life-changing in and of itself. But again, it's this idea that you go to this particular place where, you know, everyone is there. They're

there not only to, you know, enjoy art and creativity, but they're there to, you know, participate in something that's bigger than themselves. So, you know, certainly for me, I went on to, you know, study music at the University of Toronto. But certainly for me, you know, this idea of, you know, working for not-for-profit organizations that, you know, create art and creative expressions and experiences for people is incredibly rewarding. for people is incredibly rewarding. Well, Pam, I'm wondering how this transition took place because I'm willing to bet that when you and I were kids, we'd go to these music festivals and we'd bring a picnic lunch and we would leave our crap on the lawn

and didn't think for one second about cleaning up after ourselves. So we're a long way from that now. How did it happen? That's right. We had a young board member that was an advocate for environmental sustainability. His father happened to be

president of the local conservation club, as I mentioned earlier. So that club came in and they were really the impetus behind getting our greening program up and going. They kept it on the radar, they kept the pressure on because, you know, to be honest, there's lost revenue for greening. So, for example, we used to sell bottled water, so we lost that revenue stream. So we really had to keep that impetus going. And the Conservation Club was the group to do that. And gradually, over time, we turned people's opinions and listeners' perspectives changed as well, and they came to expect it. So it's thanks to that group and the acceptance of our board of directors, our volunteers, and our patrons that this has become a living thing and we continue to make progress.

Well, Gabby, I need to find out how big, like how significant are these initiatives really? Because while it's wonderful that it's all happening, does it actually make a significant enough contribution to our environment to make a difference? It actually does. If you look at an entire festival, though, you have to understand that the biggest part of the footprint is really transportation of both the musicians and everybody participating in the festival, as well as the patrons to the festival. So that's the biggest part. But if you take, once people are there, if you take that segment, the transportation segment away, then waste management becomes a very large part of it. It can be up to 30% or so of the ecological footprint of a festival or more, depending on the festival.

And we all know that plastic recycling is broken and plastics stay plastic stay in the environment environment for centuries so those sorts of things really are important and they're becoming more and more important to the people who come to the festivals which i think is kind of one of the serious messages of this it's not necessarily just that we're trying to make a difference but it's that the people who are now participating in these festivals really expect these things from the festivals that they are going to. Okay, I am going to speak some bureaucraties here now, because we're going to read the City of Toronto Code Chapter 743, which, as you all well know, is very important in this line of work that you're in. Sheldon, how'd you like to bring this quote board up? And I will read it. This is from the City of Toronto's website, Guidance for Planning Events in Toronto.

And it goes like this. As a part of a street event permit, special event park permit and permit for civic squares, event organizers must create, submit a waste management plan. Event organizers must consider the type and amount of waste their event will generate. They are responsible for the cleanup and removal of garbage and debris and restoring the public right-of-way to its original condition. Failure to restore the public right-of-way to its original condition will result in the city taking responsibility for the cleanup and the applicant held responsible for all fees incurred. Aha! So, question number one, Gabby, does that really happen?

Well, I've never been to a festival like in Toronto, so I honestly have no idea. But the festivals, the two festivals that I went to, you could not tell the next day or even by the end of the festival cleanup that we had even been there. So absolutely for Skeleton Park Arts Festival in Kingston and for Cloud Nine, like there was no trace left. It was quite impressive. And for the farmer's market on any given Sunday by three o'clock, once the market closes at two, by three o'clock, you don't have a clue that we were even

there. So it is like we definitely take care of all of that. Yeah. Okay. Pam, how about to you? How much of what you do is because Aurelia City Hall puts a lot of pressure on you to make sure it looks like you weren't there by the time you leave? I'm going to turn it around a little bit. We do have a permitting process. However, the city of Aurelia modeled their event management handbook and guideline based on the activities of Mariposa. So we were instrumental in having the city develop those sorts of guidelines. And we constantly get congratulated at the end of the festival and told that we've left the park in better shape than we received it. So we're quite

proud of our track record. Okay, Kate, how about to you? Do you, I mean, I know you're doing a good job, but there must be municipalities around Ontario that have to put a lot of pressure on event organizers or else. That happens, I presume. Yeah, I presume so, yeah. And I think it's all to the good that municipalities are, you know, being a bit more overt with that language about saying, you know, this is not just sort of a nice thing that you could do,

but this is really what we expect. And I think that's just going to help all events practice better strategies to reduce waste and to reduce the amount of people who are driving to events, things like that. Hillside Festival happens to take place in a conservation area. So our main partner is, of course,

the Conservation Authority. And again, I really echo what Pam said, is that because our festivals have been around for so long, these partnerships have really, I think, predated a lot of the idea that these strategies can be put down into policy. And so it's important for us to, just as part of our organizational mandates, to leave it better than we found it. And we're not, you know, we're not particularly doing that because of any municipal policy, but absolutely I support that, that, you know, those things should be in writing and they should be enforceable because that will help us all improve. You're in your 40th year at Hillside? Yes, going into the 41st. Going into the 41st season. Things I presume are dramatically

different in the way you handle these issues today than they would have been when you started. Fair to say? Absolutely. I mean, you weren't born when it started, but I'm sure you've heard. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, just, yeah, imagine the changes that have taken place with transportation, with, you know, the idea of people moving from one part of the country to another, the idea of bringing international artists from across the world to your event. You know, what kind of the changes in conversations that we've had over the decades. I mean, yeah, it's absolutely a different conversation.

Pam, you're doing a lot for Mariposa, but what is sort of the next frontier in terms of environmental sensibility for you folks? I think looking at alternate energy supply. So things like solar energy would be certainly one initiative that we're looking into. Transportation is, I think Gabby said, is a huge issue and we're fortunate at this point to be able to partner up with two other festivals on the same weekend, Ottawa Blues Festival and Northern Lights Boreal in Sudbury. So if an artist flies into Toronto, they can go to Ottawa or really a Sudbury. So looking at those sorts of alternate transportations options for people. Right. Kate, what's the next frontier

for you? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, the idea of transportation, because of course, you know, we audit our, you know, energy consumption, our carbon footprint every year in order to, you know, we do fundraise in order to purchase carbon offsets to make Hillside, you know, a net carbon zero festival. But absolutely, I think it's something that's being talked about among all festival partners kind of across the world, you know, as travel, travel of not only the patrons to the festival, but also the artists, if they're flying in from Europe, or they're flying in from Africa, you know, that is that's an incredible, you know, amount of emissions. So I think that's something that we're talking about is to, you know, encourage, encourage a reduction in those

emissions, like, for example, a lot of festivals will have a radius clause, you know, encourage a reduction in those emissions. Like, for example, a lot of festivals will have a radius clause, you know, or any concert venue really saying, you know, I'm going to book this band or this artist to play. And I don't want them to play for six weeks on either side of my date for 300 kilometers. Because, of course, you want to be the one who presents that very fun and very cool artist and you want people to want to come to your event. But I mean, that really encourages people to have to fly and travel a long way in order to get to their next concert engagement. And that, you know, that just contributes to these emissions. So, you know, if we can all partner together for the concept of slow touring, you know, allowing artists to play more in a

smaller geographic area, you know, perhaps that's another way we can reduce these emissions. Pam, how many guests come to Mariposa to the festival during the course of it? Pam, how many guests come to Mariposa, to the festival, during the course of it? We typically have 12,000 people on site each day, so upwards over 30,000 people. And when does it happen? You can imagine July 5th to 7th. So that's a lot of potential mess, isn't it? It is a lot, yep. So you guys have really got to be on your game.

Well, and as I said, patrons and artists have bought into the process. So we have waste diversion stations that are resourced. What we found across the province is each community may have a different recycling program, a different composting program. And people were standing in front of our waste station saying, I don't know where this goes. So we now have volunteers at resource associations say, yep, that can go in compost, even though it can't in your community. So I think education and communication is also a real key to this.

Gotcha. And Kate, for your festival, when does it happen? So July 19th to 21st. And how many people are you expecting? About 8,000 people a day. 8,000 a day. A day, yes. So 24,000 by the time it's all said and done.

Okay, and how far away do they come from? I think, again, like I'm sure Mariposa as well, you know, we draw certainly from Ontario, but absolutely, you know, we see people purchasing tickets as well as, of course, coming to volunteer from across Canada, as well as, you know, really around the world. And it really, definitely, the word

homecoming came up a little bit earlier. Absolutely. It's a community celebration when you have an event that's been going for so many years. And, you know, that really draws people back. Right. Gabby, let's finish off with you here. In our last minute, I'm sure there are people who are either organizers of or volunteers for various festivals across the province who are watching or listening right now. Give them some advice. How can they make their festivals better? Oh, there are so many ways that they can do that. One of the things that they can look at is something called Creative Green Tools Canada, which can help them figure out what it is about

their festival that they can make more sustainable. They can also reach out to other festival organizers in their area, people like us, who can help tell them about the sorts of things that we can do, look at websites for other festivals and see what other festivals are doing. And it's all, like has been said, about communication, trying to get the word out about the possibilities and the way things can work and finding volunteers to help you do all of those things. Yeah, having people in front of your waste station is critically important to actually being able to sort your waste properly. So all of those things are really are available to people, but they have to be looking for them.

Very good advice. And Pam, can I just finally say how much we're going to miss not seeing Gordon Lightfoot at Mariposa this coming summer, which is, you know, what can I I'm not over it yet, as you can see. That's really, really sad. And I bet you're not either. No, we're not either. And just so people know, we renamed our main stage last year, the Lakefoot stage. So in honour of Gordon. So his memory will be alive at the festival. We'll miss seeing him stroll across the parking lot with a guitar in his hand, but we certainly will recognize him during the festival. Brilliant. I want to thank the three of you for coming on a TVO tonight and sharing your views on this. Gabriella D., Pam Carter, Kate Johnston, good luck with your festivals in the summer, everybody.

Great to meet you all. Thank you. Thank you very much. The Agenda with Steve Paikin is made possible through generous philanthropic contributions from viewers like you. Thank you for supporting TVO's journalism.