The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - Does Ontario Have an Identity?

Episode Date: November 15, 2024

Almost every province has an identity. Whether you're an Albertan, a Quebecer, or a Newfoundlander, identifying with your province comes a lot easier for some. But what about here in Ontario? How often do you hear anyone refer to themselves as an "Ontarian"? Joining Jeyan Jeganathan to discuss whether there is such a thing as an Ontario identity are, Gord Knowles, Councillor for the town of Atikokan and the Director of Economic Development for Destination Northern Ontario; Andrew Parkin, Executive Director of the Environics Institute; Helen Chimirri-Russell, CEO of Ontario Heritage Trust; George Carothers, Senior Director of Ideas and Insights at the Institute for Canadian Citizenship; and Amanda Simard, former MPP for Glengarry-Prescott-Russell. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Almost every province has an identity. Whether you're an Albertan, a Quebecer, or a Newfoundlander, identifying with your province comes a lot easier for some. But what about here in Ontario? How often do you hear anyone refer to themselves as an Ontarian? Joining us now to discuss whether there is such a thing as an Ontario identity, we welcome in Atahokan, Ontario, west of Thunder Bay, Gord Knowles, Councillor for the Town of Atahokan, Ontario, west of Thunder Bay, Gord Knowles, Councillor for the Town of Atahokan

and the Director of Economic Development for Destination Northern Ontario. And with us in studio, Andrew Parkin, Executive Director of the Enver Onyx Institute, George Carruthers, Senior Director of Ideas and Insights at the Institute for Canadian Citizenship, Helen Jemiri Russell, CEO of Ontario Heritage Trust, and Amanda Samard, former MPP for Glengarry Prescott Russell.

Thank you guys so much for coming into the studio and Gord for joining us online. I'm going to start with George. What do you think of when you think of Ontario? So I think in many ways, Ontario is emblematic of Canada in that it's difficult to define what it is to be a Canadian. And I think in so many ways, it's difficult to define what it is to be an Ontarian. But that's also its source of strength. It's a place where you can come be yourself, plant your feet, and discover what it is to you.

And so I think that is actually one of the distinctive strengths of Ontario. Alright, Amanda, you come out with a distinct and unique approach in terms of Ontario. When you think of Ontario, what do you think? I think it's a little bit different for me because I'm a Francophone, so Franco-Ontarian, but I do identify with Ontario, although more as a Canadian, but I do think as an Ontarian, the more I travel, the more I realise how being Ontarian is really being flexible and fluid and learning about and knowing about so many different cultures and being adaptable. And I found that as I travel the country and internationally, being Ontarian is what gave me those opportunities

to be so comfortable in any setting. And I think it's because even within our own province, we have Northern Ontario, we have the national capital area, we have the rural areas, we have the GTA in Toronto. So we're already able to understand different communities. And so that really, to me, it's being flexible and fluid and very adaptable. All right, speaking of communities, Gord, I'm coming to you.

Northern Ontario. Correct me if I'm right, raised in Thunder Bay, but now live in Atacoccan. What do you think of when you think of Ontario? I think Ontario, you're looking at just based on the size of the province itself, the vast geography and the way that it kind of bends around the Great Lakes. I'm so far away. I'm closer geographically to Minneapolis and to Winnipeg. So it's a weird dichotomy when you're kind of looking at how Northern Ontario fits into the puzzle of Ontario as a whole.

That's not to say I'm not incredibly proud to be an Ontarian. And I enjoy all the fun parts of being an Ontarian. But it's definitely a unique challenge, I think, when you're living in the North, especially in the rural communities, when geographically you are so far away from some of the larger, more urban areas and you don't identify maybe the same with them and some of the politics and the policies

that might be attached to those. All right, well, I asked them through that question because they were born in Ontario. So I'm leaving this question to you I'm just curious in your view Helen what makes Ontario different from the rest of the province and territories? Right so full disclosure I'm an implant from from Alberta that's where I grew up. Is this where we boo? Right no. Came and actually did a university degree here and then traveled to a variety of places. Lived in Quebec for a while, lived in the UK for a while, moved back to Alberta and then about seven years ago moved here.

And it's interesting having lived in Alberta, realizing the extent to which our Albertan identity to a certain extent is created in opposition to what it is to be Ontarian, right? This Ontario, which is kind of the centre of Canada, right? You mentioned the capital there. But then how, so what does that mean? It's interesting coming to Ontario and realising so many things that were Canadian, which we as Albertans sort of start to get to know and absorb as things of our own, whether it's the maple leaf on the flag or other bits

and pieces, and realizing those things that actually live here, they're Ontarian things. And so there's kind of this beautiful seamlessness between Canadianism and Ontarianism. They're maple trees in Alberta? Not sugar maples. And I now own a home that has a sugar maple. And I can't even begin to explain to you how exciting

it was to have my own sugar maple that I owned, that I could tap myself, and realizing this connection to this thing that was very Canadian, which actually now I had access to, now that I moved to Ontario. Very nice. Andrew, you're a neighbor to the East originally, correct? Originally, yes, from Montreal. All right. So tell us, what makes Ontario different from the rest?

I think, I agree with a lot of what Helen said. I think there's a sort of default part of Ontario. Like it's the largest population. It's a big province. It's in the center of the country. And so identity is just not as problematic in that Canadian context, right? Coming from Montreal at a time where we're constantly questioning everything about where we belong,

what community we belong to, what country ultimately we belong to. So that type of constant questioning, I think, is less common in Ontario. And so what makes Ontario differently, different, I think, is sort of identity isn't as problematized here, at least again in that Canadian context. All right. All right. I'm going to point our eyes to the screen.

I want to talk about how attached people around Canada feel about this country and province from a survey done by Enveronix Institute. All right. So people from Ontario, 56% say they are attached to Canada, where 39% say they are attached to the province. In Alberta, we see a similar rate, 57% are attached to the country, but 49% are attached to the province. In Newfoundland, 50% of their folks are attached to the country, whereas 64% are attached to the province.

And one more example, our direct neighbors to the east, Quebec residents, are 32% attached to the country and 49% attached to the province. Andrew, I'm going to start with you. There are significant differences between provinces and how attached they are to either Canada or their provinces. What are your thoughts on that? I think the first thing I would say is those numbers you showed, that's the percentage who feel strongly attached either to the country or to their province. So the rest, the remainder, feel somewhat attached. There's very few people in this country

who don't feel any sense of attachment to either their local community or their province or to the country. So the difference here is in that strength. We all have a lot of identities. There's no one identity. We have layers of identity. We lot of identities. There's no one identity. We have layers of identity. We have interacting identities.

So what you're seeing in those numbers is sort of what comes first to mind, or what, if you were to tell your story, what's in the opening chapter, right, before you get to the rest of it. So I think the difference between someone from Newfoundland, maybe, and someone from Ontario, when they started to tell the world about themselves,

the world Newfoundland would come in the first sentence, in Ontario, might be until the second paragraph that you get there. So the important thing is these things are not either or. And it's not positive or negative. If people in Ontario feel less strongly attached to Ontario, that's not an absence or a turning your back or I don't like it here or it's not important.

It's a question of what you think, as I said in those layers, which one is the one you show first or the one that comes to mind first. All right, George, I want to get your thoughts on that. Does those survey numbers surprise you at all? I mean, I don't think they do surprise me, given, I think, what I said at the beginning, this idea that Ontario kind of

has this kind of ambiguity to it, which I do fundamentally believe is one of its strengths. I think one of the points I would raise here is that Ontario, for so many people, is the landing province. It's where so many newcomers to Canada actually arrive first. And so that experience of finding your feet, figuring out what Canada is about, settling your family in,

perhaps even building a family, for so many immigrants to Canada, Ontario is actually where those formative experiences take place. But as we might expect, people then move elsewhere. They'll move to the west, they'll move to the east, they'll move to the north. And so I think part of this Ontario identity, the permissiveness to simply do that, to come here to figure out what it is that you see in Canada, how you relate to it, the memories and stories

you begin to build with your family, your friends, your loved ones. Ontario allows you to do that however you'd like under whatever label. And then it allows you to just go on and become Canadian in the way you'd like to be. So I think that that lack of definition is indeed a strength. And I think for newcomers in particular,

Ontario provides that really, I would say, welcoming, inclusive environment for you to make your first steps in the country. Amanda, I want to get your thoughts as well on that data and what both have said. Anything surprising there? Because you had mentioned travel outside of the province. I think that's important. I feel like for a lot of Ontarians, the first thing that they say when they're travelling is that they're from their city, another country.

That province part gets a little missed in there. Yes, and I was just going to mention because when we travel, nothing makes you feel more attached to your tribe than when you travel. And so people know, oh, you're Canadian, but as soon as they hear me speak French, they say, oh, you're from Quebec. And I say, no, no, no, I'm from Ontario. And then there's a history no, I'm from Ontario. And then there's a history there and that I want to share. And so I think

then I feel really strongly attached to my province because of that history and those roots. And as was mentioned, you know, 400 years ago, the French came to Ontario. And so my family have always been in Ontario. So in my writing in Prescott Russell, my family arrived 200 years ago. And so it's not, oh, I'm from Quebec and I just switched. And there's this sense of that is my province. But first and foremost, I am Canadian. So I think we have overlapping identities as Ontarians

because I feel like there's so much history. We're central Canada. We're close to the nation's capital, we're close to Queens Park, we're close to where the decisions are made. And I feel sometimes other provinces, the further out you go, there is that disconnect a little bit

and they want to create their own. And that's just normal, that's human. And so I find that really interesting. All right, Gord, I'll get your take on that as well. Yeah, it's interesting in the north. I think it's maybe a little bit different. We're more used to being a little bit different, a little contrarian maybe.

I always like to say we're from the other side of the map. When you flip over. We try to, I would say we tend to say we're more, our identity is rooted in being a Northern Ontarian as opposed to being an Ontarian. Not that that's any different than being an Ontarian, but I think just that sense of the regionalization that you might see in some other parts of the country, say if you lived along the Cabot Trail or Vancouver Island, I think there's an identity that

comes with being a little bit different, a little bit further away geographically and doing things a little bit differently than the norms that make that identity different. But I do think, as has been highlighted several times, that it is part of that Canadian experience. And when we're marketing outside internationally, even people don't think of Ontario when we're thinking of global marketing, they think of Canada, and then they think of the big pieces within that. So whether that just happens in Ontario to include Toronto and Niagara Falls and Ottawa

and some of those more urban centers. So that becomes that identity as we market it and it's familiar to people and it's easy to get them to our province. Andrew, I want to talk age a little bit, because according to the survey, younger people are less attached to their province.

What do you think that is? I think we're still trying to get our heads around that, because it's more striking outside of Ontario. So we saw, for instance, in Quebec and Newfoundland where that provincial identity is very strong, it is actually much stronger among the older generations. Now whether those are generations in the Quebec context, for instance, a generation that led the Quiet Revolution that really had to embrace a different identity as part of building their modern society, they went

through political conflict around that. And that stays with them. Or whether it's maybe it's more simple than that, that younger people are just more used to being in a really globalized context and feel that their local or more provincial identity is just less important. It could be a combination of those things, but it is interesting to see. It's not that our local or regional identities are fading away,

but again, I'm getting back to my layers. It is the case that the older you are are, the more the kind of first part of your story that you want to tell is one that's more about your province than younger generations. Ellen, why don't you take on that? Yeah, I'm wondering if, as listening to you speak, there's something about lived experience that builds into there.

I'm building on what George was saying earlier, this sort of sense of almost rehearsed neutrality of what it is to be Canadian and what it means to be Ontario and this place that you can come in and be yourself and probably from a national perspective every province would feel that you could come and be yourself but there's something interesting about that relationship between Ontario and Canada and that transferability of those iconic things that come to mind

whether it's the CN Tower, whether it's the National Capitol, whether it's maple trees, whether it's lakes, whether it's forests, whatever it is that becomes sort of neutrally Canadian. And there's a linguistic concept that came right around the 70s, this idea of having the marked and the unmarked. And that as I'm wondering if whether it's something to do with that lived experience that helps you to understand the difference between this neutral concept of Canadianism and Ontarianism versus as you get older you realize that there are those differences and you, you come to be able to make that that differentiation between the neutral and the

more distinctive and whether that has to do with the age piece or... But yeah, that whole idea that... Yeah, marked and unmarked, you've got your lion and your lioness, right? The lion can be anything and the lioness is something very, very specific and distinctive in opposition to that neutral thing. And how is Ontario potentially a neutral piece in that space? I'm curious to know. Ontario became its own province with its own name at the point of

Confederation in 1867. Before that, it was Upper Canada, then Canada West in the province of Canada. When we think of Canada, do we assume that Ontario is the default province? I think so, but maybe I'm biased because I'm from Ontario. Is it an ego thing? Do we have an ego? No, I think it's because that's the centre and it is the largest by population province and so the economic powerhouse and I think many people as was mentioned come to this country and they settle in Ontario. That's the default, right? And so I do think so. Alright, George?

I think, you know, ego or not, I think whether it's the historical facts or the present day realities, like half of immigrants coming to Canada come to Ontario. It is, as I mentioned earlier, it is a point of arrival for so many people, but it's also a place where so much history has unfolded. It's an economic engine for the country. While folks from other provinces may not fully agree with this. I think Ontario does occupy this relatively unique place in the Canadian geography because of its unique history and the critical kind of events, places, people who have come from Ontario and made their mark. And you know I think we can have a discussion about I'd be curious to get

you know folks from outside of Ontario's views on this. Well maybe I'll get Helen to respond to them. I think you guys are on to something right with this idea of storytelling and who tells the stories and where does the story begin and I think if you were to look at a book about Canadian history and a book about Ontario's history the first few chapters chances are would be pretty similar which I think is kind of what you're getting at right this sort of in a book about Ontario's history, the first few chapters, chances are, would be pretty similar. Which I think is kind of what you're getting at, right? The sort of default problems of where did that genesis, like the origin story of Canada kind of thing, right?

Where did this all begin and where did it come out from? I think you're hitting at something. I think this issue of default, the way it comes up is, if you ask the question, do you feel, say, more Canadian or more Ontarian, for a lot of Ontarians that question won't make sense because the answer is, what's the difference? In other parts of the country, you can have a long conversation about that into the night over beers in the pub about whether you feel more Albertan or more Canadian or when do you feel more Albertan or more Canadian or when do you feel more of it so that the issue makes sense and resonates whereas in

Ontario it falls a little flat. Well you bring that up we do have the board for that so let's look at the screen here this is how people identify with Canada versus their province so we'll use the same provinces in Ontario 54% identified with Canada only or on first reference, 33% as equal between the country and province and only 9% as the province first or only. Some work to do there. In Alberta, 44% are Canada only or first, 33% equally between the two and much higher, 20% as province first or only.

In Newfoundland, 35% identified with the country only or first, 26% equally, and 37% as province first or only. And Quebec, with 26% who identify with Canada first or only, 18% as equal, and more than half, 53% who identify with province first or only. Andrew, I'll start with you again on this one. What can we conclude on how we identify ourselves compared with folks from other provinces? 9% is not great. No. It's not great. But I don't think it's necessarily a contest. And it doesn't have to be a contest.

Because again, for a lot of people, there's an overlap. There's very few who are only one or more. But I think what it shows is in some of the places of the country outside of Ontario, that issue of which identity comes first shows is in some of the places of the country outside of Ontario that you know issue of which identity comes first can be mobilized politically. It's been part of you know in some cases it's part of the political conflict. In Quebec political parties define themselves in some ways by which one of those identity

cards they want to play first. And actually, we're seeing that now on the prairies in Saskatchewan and Alberta. If you want to look at what's the difference between the UCP supporters in Alberta and the NDP supporters, there's many differences on energy policy and health care policy. But if you actually ask that question that we just saw,

they'd answer that one differently too. So again, I don't think it means that one way of seeing this is better than the others. I don't think it's a contest of identities, but I think in some cases that question of which one you feel like first is actually a live political debate, and in Ontario, it's just not. All right. Well,arian, it's just not. All right. Well, I think it's only fair that I ask at least one of you. So, Gord, it's going to come to you.

Would you consider yourself Ontarian? Yeah, I would consider myself Ontarian. I think it gets back to a lot of what's been discussed here. If I saw myself as an Ontarian only, that kind of jives against the fact that we have the national capital and the biggest city in the province and the country is here in Ontario. So it would be very difficult, I think, to separate ourselves from being a national identity

just geographically based. So I would say I'm an Ontarian, I'm a proud Ontarian, I'm a proud Northern Ontarian, but first and foremost I'm a proud Canadian and I celebrate and accept the fact that we're part of a bigger picture and I'm actually really pleased that we don't have to deal with some of the more regional challenges that come with identity politics, that come with becoming a province that identifies with itself first and foremost. And that 9% to me is more speaking to the fact that we are a really unified province, despite some of the differences, some of the challenges that we might face up north

in comparison to the more urban areas, but at the end of the day, I think that's a positive. All right, George, I want to get your take on there. Would you consider yourself an Ontarian as well? Someone who's born here? Well, you know what Gord has just shared I think is actually really important. I'll also share that in my personal life, my family. I have a sister and brother-in-law who live in Thunder Bay who spend a lot of time in the north. And Gord, I think I really appreciate your comments.

In particular, your comments on how it is actually a positive thing that we are not struggling with this regional kind of identity politics. And notwithstanding the fact that, of course, folks who are living in rural parts of Ontario versus the North versus Toronto versus the national capital may have their own sense of what it is to be an Ontarian. But I think the fact that this doesn't plague us,

it doesn't actually become such a dominant narrative in our public discourse. It's not something we should take lightly. And that ability to be yourself, and that ability to be from Ontario, living in Ontario, saying that you're Canadian first and an Ontarian second second without any ramification. I think is actually a really important, really important thing to be able to, to, to live and breathe every day. Okay. All right. I want to change gears a little bit.

A little more than 50 years ago, the government at the time put forth a few Ontario branded institutions. We are in one right now, TVO Ontario, the Ontario Science Centre and Ontario Place. Ontario Place was closed in 2012. It's set to reopen with a different approach. The building of the Ontario Science Centre is closed and moving to the waterfront. What do we think happens when we lose Ontario-specific

cultural centres? Mathieu, first. I think they're very important, those institutions and those cultural centres, for knowing the history, which helps us understand where we're going as well. And especially with lots of newcomers, we want to tell the story that we have. We have this beautiful province with the land of opportunity and the diversity, not just in the ethnicities and the cultures, but the geography, the economies, the resources.

And so I do feel that it's very important to protect those institutions. The same with the Canadians, I would say. But that's where I think the history and some of the symbols are very important to preserve so that we can continue telling the story and feel that sense of belonging and help new people feel that sense as well, because they understand what those institutions are, what they do, where they come from, and they can be part of the family. For sure.

It feels like it's only right that I come to you on this one too, right? Right? It is. It's all about storytelling. And those stories that we tell are so important about helping us to understand where we came from and make sense of who we are today, right? So whether it's built structures, whether it's cultural institutions, whether it's traditions, so there is that importance to help people to understand what we are. And I mean George keeps sort of alluding to the sense of neutrality and maybe there's actually an opportunity for us rather than calling a spade a spade and recognizing that rather than these things actually being neutral, they are specifically Ontarian.

And rather than us translating them up as to something Canadian, recognizing that they actually are grounded here and have sort of an importance to them. And being able to tell that story with a slightly different twist that's actually grounded more in geography and place and tradition that we can label in a slightly different way. And what does it look like when we tell those stories in a slightly new way and take a bit more concerted ownership of them to recognize their specialness rather than the neutrality. All right, Andrew, I'll get your take on there. And do we perhaps need to establish more Ontario branded centers? I think what I would say is public spaces, public centers, educational centers like a science center, parks, networks are really important and it's important that people see themselves in them and feel included.

So it's great to have something that's called Ontario Place, because it sends a message to everyone who might come through Toronto. I don't think we need to brand them in an overly kind of market-driven way or an exclusive way, by which I think it's not about building kind of fences, right? It's the opposite. Public spaces are important.

And when they come from public money in Ontario through the government of Ontario, it's important they send the signal that everyone belongs. So there's no harm in building them up. But I just don't think we need to do it in this kind of, like I said, sort of an aggressive type of sense. I think it's just to have as many public institutions that are as open and welcoming as possible is obviously a good thing for our society. Yeah, I think just to pick up on what's being discussed here, I think, you know, that building that sense of belonging,

no matter who you are, I think it really has to do with how you spend your time and who you spend it with. And having access to public spaces, whether they're overtly branded or not, I think is critical. And making sure that those public spaces are known, of course, and cherished and protected, I think all of that, I think, is part of this. But one of our own programs at the Institute for Canadian Citizenship really builds on this. It's called the Canoe Access Pass. It's available to newcomers, permanent residents and new citizens. The idea here is that we're trying to open up, and in this case it's the whole country,

to newcomers so that they can experience these places, like science centers, like national parks, like museums, galleries, et cetera. Not because it's just social and recreational, but because these are the integration experiences that really help to contribute to that sense of belonging. And I think when we're talking about Ontario, we are a unique province in that we have so many of these beautiful, very significant pieces of history,

pieces of culture, places of culture and art. And so making sure that these places continue to exist and are available, I think is actually a really important part of ensuring that we can tell the story of Ontario and see ourselves within it. You had mentioned history. I want to show a little bit of history, a little nostalgia. Let's watch a clip of a slightly famous Ontario branch short film. It was commissioned by the province's Department of Economics and Development for the Ontario Pavilion Expo 67. Here is a glimpse. Give us a place to stand and a place to grow, and call this land Ontario.

A place to stand, a place to grow, Ontario, Ontario, Ontario. Doesn't that just give you the feels? Yeah. That was lovely. So actually that video goes on for 17 minutes and a side note, that explosion, I'm coming to you Gord, because that's all mining and all that stuff which we think about in Northern Ontario. It starts off mining, goes on to logging, steel, glass run in the snow and on the beach. And you know, what people don't expect or remember is that came out in 1967 for Canada

and therefore Ontario's centennial year. I'm just curious, has anyone, Gord, did you grow up with that song? Does that give you some memories there? That is buried so deep in my mind and now it'll probably be another 50 years before I can put it back down to the bottom. Yeah, I think that's part of our identity. It's funny how things have changed since then,

but at the same time, really not much has changed in that time. We're still driven by a lot of those same resources and industries. And that sense of community is still first and foremost in the way that we identify as Canadians, as an Ontarian. It really hasn't changed that much. So some of the folks on the screen have changed. But at the end of the day, we're all still doing the same thing and trying to make the most of the land that we've been given.

Just curious to the Ontarians, was that something that? Ontarierierio. There we go. It's a very familiar, very, very familiar refrain for me. Yeah, I think that video, not to mention the video, but the period in which it was produced, is, I think, for some of us, really the articulation of brand Canada, but also brand Ontario at its peak.

And we think about so many Canadian design, specific design elements, songs, visuals. And they really, really come out of this period in such a strong and compelling way. Yeah, so I can certainly hear the song now playing. It's going to be there for a while. When you leave the studio, you're just going to be looking back.

Yeah, I'll be walking home, and it's going to be playing in my head for a few days. But yeah, I think the diversity that's shown in those images in that video, I think, are timeless. I think they are still very true today. I want to ask you the same question, but I just want people to know and I did not know this when doing research. So obviously that song in 67 became

sort of the theme song, the unofficial theme song for Ontario. But that short film that we watched won an Academy Award in 1968. It was nominated for two one for short subject live action. So there's you know, there's some some some lovely stuff there. Now it's been redone and updated as well as we know by other artists, especially for Ontario 150. Do we need more of this? Maybe, but I feel like the marketing and the branding,

it's a little bit unnatural. And as we've seen the numbers with the attachment to the province, it's mostly, like Andrew mentioned, there's a conflict happen happen and no amount of marketing will equal that type of unity and identity that you can have with that. And so the marketing is great, but even just watching that clip, I had never seen that.

I don't know the song. My mother, I wasn't born. I don't even think my mother was born in 67. And she probably grew up with the song. But a lot of the images I've seen in that clip are also attributable to Quebec, like the lakes, the fishing, the logging, and all the stuff. And so I think it does show that it's not

because it's so unique to Ontario. It's hard to find those distinct things. And so you can't really market something. I think there's other things that could distinguish us, like the openness, the diversity of the cultures, the geography, other things we've mentioned, rather than trying to find specific symbols, because we're going to find that elsewhere in Canada. And it's not necessarily marketable as this is what is Ontarian, this is what is not

Ontarian, because it's really Canadian. All right. You get the last word. You've got 30 seconds or so. But, you know, do we need more of this in just the overall context of Ontarian identity? What do we need to take away from it? Conversations are important, and the stories are important and how we talk about ourselves is important and how we remind ourselves, and we've had a lot of talk about

diversity, right? Reminding ourselves that that diversity has been here for an extremely long time and spending the time to look at how we define ourselves as a province and how we look to the past and understand where are those things that we can remind ourselves to help us make sense of where we are today. I mean it's a great little clip it's a watched all 17 minutes of it right yeah know the jingle from somewhere else but there's something fantastic about being able to have listened to those stories carefully and knit them together in a way that continues to help us make sense of who we are in the present moment

and where we want to go. Alright, we are going to leave it there. I want to thank everyone. Gord, Andrew, Alan, George, Amanda, thank you so much. And maybe we'll hand out little Ontario badges that we can put on our backpacks and carry out of here. Alright, thank you very much. Thank you.