The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - Holding on to Bilingualism in Sturgeon Falls

Episode Date: June 21, 2025

The TVO series "Crossroads: Beyond Boom and Bust" focuses on Ontario communities that have moved away from their own origin stories. Sturgeon Falls is one such town with a rich French-language heritage. We welcome James Hyslop, executive producer, and Michel Gervais, Sturgeon Falls resident and performer to talk about why it's important to stay focused on bilingual roots and how the community has worked to reinvent its purpose to help keep young people there.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Abitibi, pulp and paper mill, and world famous caviar were once the economic drivers of jobs and development in Sturgeon Falls, located in northeastern Ontario. The predominantly French speaking community in West Nipissing is also known for a precedent setting fight for a French high school in the 1970s. And in the latest installment of TVO's documentary series, Crossroads, Beyond Boom and Bust, we learn about this community's rich French language heritage and how Sturgeon Falls is evolving and working to keep its young people in the area.

So joining us now for more on this, James Hislop, he is executive producer of Crossroads, Beyond Boom and Bust, and Michel Gervais, a resident of Sturgeon Falls, Ontario. It's great to have you two in those chairs. Thanks for coming in. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Okay, James, what was it about Sturgeon Falls that you thought would make for a great episode of this documentary?

So the thesis of our series is what happens to a small town when the reason it exists no longer exists. And sadly and sometimes wonderfully, Ontario has a lot of small towns that fit that bill. Sturgeon Falls was unique in the sense that, like many of the small towns that started with a mill or a transportation hub or a factory, that time or technology had eclipsed. In the Sturgeon Falls case, the mill and then the caviar. When those two mainstays of employment went away,

rather than either turning it into a ghost town or trying to reinvent themselves in a similar incarnation of what they were, the town pivoted significantly and became a center for embracing their French language rights and the French language culture. Which is about 60% of the people who live there. 60%. And then not only that, you know,

most of the, a lot of the small towns we deal with, people, as soon as they become 16, you know, they say, I'm out of here, I'm going to the big city. And the inverse is happening in Surgeon Falls where people are either staying or going away and then coming back. So the town actually has growth versus decline in a lot of the small towns. It's how do you manage the shrinking of the small town

and then the absence of services and resources for the community. And Sturgeon Falls reinvented itself in a number of different ways and one of the big ways was Franco-Ontarian culture. And then of course, being very inclusive and with the queer culture. We're gonna get to that in a second, but just refresh my memory here. I think it was 2002 when the mill disappeared?

Correct. Right, 02, okay. And the caviar industry and now, I mean, it's gone. It's gone, yeah. Okay, Michel, tell us about your French heritage in Sturgeon Falls. Yeah, I mean tell us about your French heritage in Sturgeon Falls. Yeah, I mean, my family's been here in Sturgeon Falls for as long as probably since the turn of the 1900s,

I would say. So virtually everyone in my family speaks French. And probably so my great-grandfather, Dr. Roger Javert, was one of the three francophone school board members during the education crisis. And my other grandfather as well, Gaëtan Serri, was also really involved in a lot of the activism and And you're born there? And I was born there.

Born and raised. Born and raised. And still there? Still there. I left for about five years to Toronto, and then I came back. What drew you back? Pardon me? What drew you back? What drew me back?

Honestly, a pandemic helped. But also, just being home, speaking French, again, being in the city was nice. I loved it. But I was noticing myself kind of struggling more with my French. And that was something that I never thought would happen. And because it's so important to me to really be speaking my language with my family, with my friends, coming back really was an opportunity to kind of just re-re-familiarize myself with the language. And that's a theme that the

documentary keeps coming back to because there is a... Well, okay, first things first. Sturgeon Falls is as Francophone a community as it is because of a really neat story about a priest from many years ago. You want to tell that story? No. I'm not familiar with that one. to Europe and would kind of mythologize the North, especially West Nipissing, and kind of invite the families to come to this is like Verner to get some land

and to develop farming and things like that. And so that convinced a lot of people, and the winter happened. But I gather then when the jobs disappeared, the Anglophones left, but the Francophones stayed. Exactly. The poor Francophone people, you know, they couldn't afford to leave, so they stayed. And that's over time just what is what kind of grew the French community and those areas. Okay. You touched on this business about a French high school and the efforts.

It's more than 50 years ago right now to get a French high school. There was an elementary school, but not a high school. And go ahead, Sheldon, bring up the photo from that time, because these were serious protests. Nous voulons notre école. We want our school, as opposed to the English school, right? I think one of the things that some of the feedback we get, particularly in the stories we do that have Frank-Contarian communities, is I think it's an underserved, not underrepresented group.

I mean, when we think of French culture in Canada, we immediately think of Quebec, and then maybe Le Quedzi. But the Franc-Contarian culture... Acadia. Acadia. There we go. We forget that there's a very substantial and thriving French culture in Ontario, the Francothériens. And I think what happened in Surgeon Falls was a turning point for recognition and acceptance

as a culture and a language and a way of living that needed to be embraced rather than shunned or even worse just completely ignored. And there is a kind of a, I mean there's a deep concern among the francophone population there, that it's up to us, it's our responsibility to hang on to that culture. Exactly, who has to do it? We're here, we want, you know, we are a majority in population and we just want to be able to exist in our language and speaking what we're comfortable speaking.

Exactly. You come from a very political family, I have learned. OK, you want to go through a bit of a list of some of the people who've gone into public life in your family? Yeah, so I have my grandfather, Gaetan Serri, who was MP from 1968 to 72. My uncle, Marc Serri, my mom's brother,

who was MP from 2015 to this year and he's still the MP there right no longer oh did no did he lose in the last election no kidding yeah okay and he was nickel belt I think okay and my grandfather as well and then I have my great uncle Ben said he who was provincial MP for to be skinny concrete I Conkrain. I remember him. Yeah, exactly. Exactly So, okay. I'm gonna ask the obvious question. It's obviously in the DNA of the family for you guys to go into politics You thinking about it? No Not I would say not not in government politics necessarily, but I am part of the West Visting Party Committee

I was president for three years Now it's just a dumbest vice president West Virginia Pride Committee. I was president for three years. Now I just stepped on as vice president. But I mean activism is really important to me and especially for queer rights, rural queer rights and even more niche, Francophone rural queer rights. I think it's really my people. So that's really who I advocate for. Gotcha. How has, we've talked about how many of the jobs have disappeared and therefore you would assume like so many communities in Canada the population goes down, the biggest export is youth, right? Young people leave. How has the

community actually grown in recent years? Well, in a couple ways. It's by embracing the French culture and making it a place that they want to stay. People want to live there because they can live, speak, and socialize in their native tongue. Secondly, I think one of the other things is, for example, since we've finished filming the documentary, the plant is going to be turned into a very vibrant community center. So it's about making the community an attractive place and embracing all cultures being very inclusive, the very prominent queer community

and supporting lifestyles that you would normally disassociate with small town thinking. That's what I was wondering, Michel, because we are a few subway stops away from one of the most, right, one of the largest, most active, most prominent gay communities in the whole country, right, down at Church and Wellesley in Toronto. This is a long way from Church and Wellesley.

So how does this work? I have a few friends that have moved here to Surgeon Falls a couple years ago who are queer. I've met them in Surgeon Falls, but they saw West Epstein Pride when they were looking for where to move to. And they were like, oh, this small town has some queer life and some acceptance. But it's not Church and Wellesley.

I mean, that's a real beehive of activity. Not everyone necessarily wants that kind of like vibrant queer nightlife experience. And they just want to be able to live somewhere quiet and calm that has a sort of community that can at least make them feel safe. But also, is it fair to say that it's also fully integrated into the community?

It's not been ghettoized. It hasn't been. No, exactly. Yeah, it's definitely. So it's a huge part of the community. It's an integral part of the community versus this is, you know, it's not been ghettoized or fragmented. So you feel at home there?

Yeah, honestly. I mean, it helps that I've been there my whole life. And I, you know, the community knows me personally. But it seems to me that even people that come here later are able to integrate and get to know the community and still feel at home. Is homophobia an issue? I would say yes of course a little bit especially you know the past year or two there's been a bit more pushback than when we started but I think they're just cowardly enough to

stay home and just be behind their keyboards. So I'm gonna just be happy with that. Let's show a clip here from this doc. That's very funny. Let's show, okay, crossroads boom and bust, Sturgeon Falls resident Riley Restule talking about why she stayed in the area. Sheldon, if you would. I had always said in high school,

I'm leaving and I'm never coming back. And I think a lot of my friends shared the same sentiment. And now that we're all getting older, people seem to want to come back. That's what happened to me and that's what a lot of my friends are doing as well. My family's here and my community is really close. I chose to come back because of the work

that I'm hoping to do in the future. I want to work for First Nations communities in the north. I want to work for rural communities in the north, and I don't think I can do that work if I don't live in the north. What's interesting about Sturgeon is that you've got, they're not identically sized, but you've got a big

chunk of Francophone people, got a big chunk of Anglophone people, and you've got a big chunk of indigenous people. Based on what you learned shooting this, how well do they all get along? I think for the most part, I think it's a little bit of a, can be an example of how different cultures, different views on life can all come together and respect each other's differences and embrace those differences to try and build a stronger, more resilient community. And I think resilience is an important word because without resilience a lot of these small towns that don't have some of the features or attractions of a large center, it's the resilience of getting through, as you said, the cold winters, the distances. And so it's a

little bit of not just necessity but it's practicality where these people, where the people in these communities come together and whether and it's you just saw indigenous culture, French culture, Anglo culture all live relatively harmoniously. I mean, it's the thing I think is wonderful. It's the two competing Putin trucks on either side of the street. I mean, that's, you know, they're both the best. They both attract a different and same crowd

on the same day. But I think it's that it's a great emblem of the competitive nature inside of a community. But it's done with respect and a lot of fun. Should we show him doing his thing? OK, we're going to show you doing your thing. Here we go. Sheldon, next clip, if you would.

Oh! Oh! Come on, let's have a search and fall. I love you all so much. I'm going to go to this show. Give it you all so much. We're going to keep going. Give it up for me. My name is Je ne sais pas. There's this like misconception that like small town is small mind. In small towns, only small minded people exist.

And there's some. There's definitely some. But what I've been noticing is people are open and ready to accept new ideas, new people. In my youth, I would never have thought that we would have had a space that was so accepting of people and their identities, and to have a space that is really developed for young people and by young people too. That's what's really important, that young people really need to believe that they have a voice in the community. I like that, incidentally, about the documentary. You go back and forth between our two official languages

in this country and you see very little of that, actually. So good for you for doing that. Okay, I gotta ask you about your drag name. Je ne sais pas. Yeah. As in French for I don't know. Yeah, exactly. Je ne sais pas. Where'd you get that from?

Honestly, I was, I had just turned 18. I was on a walk with my little sister and I was coming up with funny drag names. And that was one of them, I guess, at some point, because I didn't know what to come up with. And a year later I was in Toronto, you know, wishing to make my little drag debut. And I went to that little notes app note and I found the name and that's just It's been the case since but it for me like Not knowing it's kind of like a philosophy of life. Like we don't have all the answers. We don't know as Humans we don't know anything really essentially and that's okay like and you know what I mean?

So that's that's kind of the the essence of my name There will be people who will watch this documentary and they will say to themselves like and you know what I mean? So that's kind of the essence of my name. There will be people who will watch this documentary and they will say to themselves, okay, drag show in downtown Toronto, downtown Ottawa, whatever, I get that. Sturgeon Falls, Ontario, they've got drag queen shows like that.

We do. It's going to be shocking to a lot of people. You know what, yes. But I think the thing that is shocking is that it's absolutely not shocking to the people of Sturgeon Falls. And I think that that dichotomy of it you don't expect it in a small town in Ontario where it is just part of the community fabric and I think that's one of the reasons we chose Sturgeon Falls as one of the subjects in the documentary series because what would,

as you said, would be shocking really is not not in Sturgeon Falls. I think to me... Sorry, go ahead. To me, I just, when I moved back, I didn't want to compromise. I didn't want to have to let go of my drag or let go of my, you know, like language or my queerness. I just wanted to throw on a drag show like I would here. So I did and it went well.

And then we just kept doing more and more and more. And now I do shows in Sudbury and all over the north. Her, Steven. And I'm just able to do my drag in Northern Ontario, in French and English. I love to do bilingual shows. And I'm happy to say I didn't have to compromise that part of me.

How much did you know about Sturgeon Falls before doing this? Caviar. That's funny. The people who made us, excuse me, the woman who made us up today put the makeup on us. I asked her the same question. That's what she said too. Caviar.

That was it. So not very much. Very little. What would you say is sort of the most interesting nugget you've learned about Sturgeon Falls having now put this documentary together? That it's a showcase of how different cultures, different backgrounds, different communities can come together, live in relative harmony with respect and friendship.

And I think as our research team went more and more and deeper and deeper into the story, it became a no-brainer for us that this was a community that, again, goes back to the answer to the thesis of our series, what happens to a small town when the reason it exists doesn't exist. And with the mill and the caviar disappearing, there would be no reason for this town to exist had not the community come together and embrace the different cultures and communities inside of their own community. And I think for us that's a great story to tell.

You want people to watch this thing? I really do. Well then I'm going to have to tell them when they can. Give us a plug. Here we go. Crossroads, Boom and Bust, Sturgeon Falls airs on TVO Wednesday, June 25th, 10 p.m. Eastern Time. You can stream it anytime on our website, tvo.org, or on TVO Today's YouTube channel.

Gentlemen, thank you for the visit here at TVO, and safe back to Sturgeon Falls for you. Thank you. Merci beaucoup. Enchanté. Very good.