The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - How Have Black Communities Shaped Toronto?

Episode Date: February 19, 2025

How have different Black communities made their homes in Toronto, and how has Toronto been shaped by Black cultures? Black Diasporas Tkaronto-Toronto is a new exhibit at the Museum of Toronto featuring an oral archive of more than 500 stories told by 100 Black Canadians. To learn more, we're joined by Bria Dietrich, the Museum of Toronto's associate curator of public programs and learning, and Davin Henson, director of digital production and content. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Renew your 2.0 TVO with more thought-provoking documentaries, insightful current affairs coverage, and fun programs and learning experiences for kids. Regular contributions from people like you help us make a difference in the lives of Ontarians of all ages. Visit tvo.me slash 2025 donate to renew your support or make a first time donation and continue to discover your 2.0 TBO. How has Ontario's capital city been shaped by black cultures? A new exhibit at the Museum of Toronto features an oral archive of more than 500 stories told by 100 black Canadians. It's called Black Diasporas, Takarano, Toronto.

And joining us now to discuss are Bria Dietrich, Associate by 100 Black Canadians. It's called Black Diasporas, Takarano, Toronto. And joining us now to discuss are Bria Dietrich, Associate Curator of Public Programs and Learning, and Davin Henson, Director of Digital Programs, both at the Museum of Toronto. Welcome to you both. Thank you. All right, Davin, I'm gonna start with you.

How did this exhibit come about? Yeah, so the exhibit came about, we were approached in late 2023 by an organization called Afro Urban to develop an archive of stories representing the black diaspora in the greater Toronto area. So we went about that. And the exhibition that we've created is comprised of over 500 stories from the black diaspora

across the GTA. And it really is curated along five themes and includes 12 films as well to really create this incredibly dynamic exhibition in our space. All right, let's get an idea of what visitors will see. We have a photo. When they enter the exhibit, they'll see a map with pins on it.

Tell us a little bit about this. It's a world map with red, blue, and green pins stuck to it. What's the purpose of the map? What are the pins? What do they mean? Yeah, so we are inviting visitors to use a pin. There's three different colors. One color is inviting you to place a pin where you were

born. The second is where you call home. And the third is where you have ties around the world. Tell us, and I know we're looking at this map, but tell us how wide and far are we seeing some of these pins? Yeah, so in sort of true Toronto fashion, the Caribbean is very well populated, very, very well populated.

But then we also, you know, we have pins in Africa, even I think Russia and Greenland. There's a couple of pins. We'd love to hear those stories. But yeah, it really spans the whole globe. All right, you had mentioned sort of the amount of stories here. I'm curious, what was the process

of gathering the archives like? Yeah, so the process basically started with Afro-Urban and Museum of Toronto selecting 25 interviewers. The 25 interviewers really represented the diverse communities, black communities across Toronto. Those 25 interviewers were then asked to bring in two, to nominate two people to interview.

At which point, we were really focusing on ensuring that there was a wide representation of age, of location, occupation, and sex, so that we had a wide representation of age, of location, occupation, and sex, so that we had a wide range of perspectives. From that point, 50 intimate interviews were conducted, 90 minutes in length, really focusing on spaces and places and meaningful moments in people's lives. From there, 8 to 10, sometimes more, stories were identified. And those really created the foundation of this archive. OK.

And so that was the process. From that point, we actually invited 10 filmmakers to come and engage with the archive, see which stories resonated with them. At that point, they used those stories as the foundational narrative for some short films that we had commissioned for the exhibit as well. All right. Now, we do have some of those short films, we had commissioned for the exhibit as well.

All right, now we do have some of those short films, but I want to take a step back and go to some of the audio sound bites, because that is, of course, a big part of this. Let's have a listen to that clip. There's so many instances that I have where I had to convince people that I am an owner. And I think the narrative have changed also,

because I remember in 2006, even when I started the business of British Rentals, we didn't broadcast or put a banner that we're black owned. For many years, I was like, okay, I am the property manager. I didn't, I didn't, because the perception for me too was that I would be treated differently. I would be paid less. If they thought that it was owned by somebody else, they'll treat me differently. I would be able to command more with respect to it, right? They okayed me in the role of property manager. And so I gave them that role.

All right. Bria, tell us a little bit. That's just one of many audio clips. Why does this exhibit focus on oral storytelling? Yeah. So it's really sort of hearing black voices tell their own black stories is really important for this exhibition. I think that story in particular is in our courage section, sort of taking the leap of faith to open her own business, but also facing racial discrimination

at the same time. You know, it's 2025. And now, you know, that would be a big selling point of Black-owned business. But not that long ago, 20 years ago, it was something that had to be hidden. And I think it's really important to hear these stories now as we reflect back on history.

Dabin, how did you make sure the final exhibit was representative of many different communities? We looked. We saw the map. We can see how wide it ranges. How do you make sure that the representation is covered? I think it really comes back to the process that I was going through earlier about how

we selected the 25 interviewers. And then also in terms of the interviewers that they were nominating, the people they were nominating from the community, it was really important for us to just ensure that there was equal weight to factors such as age, such as location, such as occupation. So ultimately, those factors really did contribute to ensuring that we had a representation

within the exhibition. Now, Brea, obviously not all black communities and people in general have had the same experiences. I'm curious, throughout this process, are there themes that you've found repeating themselves in some of these stories? So within the exhibition itself, we sort of broke up the 500 stories into five thematic categories,

being courage, faith, building, movement, and relationships, which sort of were through lines throughout. I mean, there's definitely sort of community building was a big part of a lot of stories, as particularly it relates to the Black diaspora, coming here and finding community, building that community themselves. And of course, as we heard in that story, sort of racial discrimination also

is like a through line that runs throughout the exhibition as well, and sort of finding your place in yourself within the city. Was it difficult to sort of find the themes or kind of come down to the five? There was definitely, definitely a lot of listening to a lot of videos, a lot of oral histories. But I think ultimately, it was, you know, a lot of the stories sort of touched on those five thematics.

And in some cases it was difficult to decide which category each story went into, because in a lot of them there was a lot of courage, there was a lot of faith, there was also relationships. So yeah, it definitely was a bit of a subjective approach, but also all the stories sort of, like you said, they all sort of had a thematic through line throughout. You talked about tough decisions. I am curious, Dabin. You mentioned those short films. There's only a handful of them, 10, correct?

There's actually 12 films. 12, OK. You talked about it a little bit, but tell me, how did you choose which ones to kind of go through? What was that process like? Yeah, I think so that process was very exciting actually. So, you know, Museum of Toronto and Afro-Urban had created this archive. I think identifying which filmmakers were going to be a part of this exhibition was incredibly exciting. It really runs the gamut of filmmakers who are seasoned,

working professionals, to multidisciplinary and artists who maybe film isn't their main vocation. But they came in and really showed a lot of passion and generated some incredible films based on, we have emerging artists in there that created AI-generated films. We also have films that are more traditional documentary in style, right up until animated stuff. So it was very exciting and a very rewarding process.

I think it's only fair if we're gonna talk about short films, we should see some short films. So let's have a look at one of them. It was so amazing. The parade was incredible. I needed a week to recover. Carabana is a big, big thing. I think it's really a beautiful celebration.

Such an incredible thing that happened. That's really the hotspot when everyone wants to come and visit Toronto. It's just that vibe. It's that energy of togetherness. It's the hype. It's the pride. It's the joy. It's the freedom. It's just that vibe, it's that energy of togetherness, it's the hype, it's the pride, it's the joy, it's the freedom, it's the expression. But that's like the union and the joy and the exuberance, that's what was palpable.

I don't know if I can ever, I don't think I can ever top it. I know it's February and it's cold outside, but that gave me some good joy and some good warmth there. I am curious, Bria, what does that particular archive teach us about how black communities have sort of shaped the city? I think a lot of the stories really, I mean, they are specifically black focused, but they're also, you know, anybody who comes to the exhibition, it's relatable. There's a common experience in living in Toronto and being in Toronto. But there's also, you know, there's moments that only black people can really relate to and experience. And it was really important that that we're given a voice,

black people are given a voice to talk about those personal experiences. Yeah. Devon, are there are these stories that most people in Toronto are familiar with? Are there stories that are sort of that kind of surprised you when you know you were kind of archiving these stories? Yeah no absolutely. I mean I think I think the stories really do do run the gamut. I mean if people come when people come and engage with these there will be the familiar and they'll be the unfamiliar. And they'll, you know, ultimately we're talking about incredibly intimate conversations that people are having.

And that's why we kept it first names only in terms of how we share, share these stories. But these are very personal stories that people are sharing that we're archiving. And I think, you know, if there's anything that we hope that people come away with with this exhibition is that, you know, black people have been in Toronto for generations, for hundreds of years. I think that these stories do matter. And ultimately, these are Toronto stories. All right, well, we're going to play another Toronto story.

Let's have a look at another short film. Doing archival work, you are discovering stories of our existence. And sometimes I'll be experiencing things and then I'm like, is that my memory or is that my mom's? Why am I curious about this particular story? My mom is a memory keeper. She cares for our family archives. And so growing up, she always instilled in me the importance of preserving our histories

and remembering those who came before us. I'm just curious, very different from the Carabana clip. I'm curious, Birit, is there, are you taking on some weight when you're sharing these stories and hearing these stories? Is there, yeah, is there a responsibility there responsibility as well in sharing that as well? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we take very seriously that, as Devin said, these are very personal stories of people's lives

and their experiences. And we want to make sure that we're doing justice to the stories that are being told and portraying them in a way that the people who are telling these stories feel good about. And that was a big part of the process as well in this archiving process. These interviews were taking place, 500 stories were selected. But then also we went back to the Q&A member who told that story

and to make sure that they felt comfortable with those stories being told. That was also part of the filming process, is the filmmakers took on some stories, multiple stories, it depended. But then once the film was made, they went back to the person whose stories they told to confirm that that film felt representative of their stories. All right. I want to get a little personal.

I'm curious, as this exhibit came together, did you recognize yourself or your family in the stories that you heard? Mm-hmm. Definitely. I mean, I am of of mixed heritage so Jamaican and white and you know growing up there was not really a place to listen to just hundreds of stories of black people's experiences in Toronto or Southern Ontario generally speaking and so yeah there's definitely there's definitely stories I can relate

to and there's definitely probably stories to have and can relate to. There's definitely a little piece of I think and there's definitely probably stories Tavin can relate to. There's definitely a little piece of, I think, any visitor who comes, they can find a bit of themselves and a bit of their history in the exhibition. Tavin, a similar question, but I am curious. Did this experience change or add to your perspective of your own community and your own history? Yeah, I mean, for me, much like Bria,

I am a multiracial background. Both my folks are from the West Indies from Guyana, but black, Chinese, Amerindian, European. And for me, my entry point to blackness has always been through the West Indies. And I think that even bringing my parents to this exhibition, it's been very exciting to have, you know, West Indian folks and see multiple generations of folks come and engage with this and also see parallels between not only their stories, but more recent immigrants maybe who have come from East Africa, Somalia, Ethiopia, and seen kind of the parallels and creating those bridges

between communities. I am curious, as you mentioned, some of these archival stories are about the present. Some are about the past. What has changed over time for the black diaspora? I think it's continued to get more diverse. And I think there are more stories. I think, as I was kind of mentioning earlier,

the reality is this diaspora actually starts hundreds of years ago, which is when black folks started first arriving, even before Toronto was an actual city. So I think that's a fundamental learning. And then as it's progressed, I think that there's just been, it's layers on layers of stories where there's a lot of connection across that maybe people don't see off the surface at first glance.

I'm going to ask, I'm curious. When you got headphones on, you're listening to some of these stories, is there one or two that gave you goosebumps? Or is like, this is a story that either connects with me or that you thought would resonate with others? Favorite. I would say one of my favorites is Rosemary.

She, it's in our movement section. A common question, black people in Toronto are asked, or people of color generally, are where are you from? Where did you come from? Where were you really born? And her story relates back to like her parents were born here, she was born here, her family came up as black loyalists in the 1700s.

And I just, as far as talking about the Black diaspora, I really love that story as it relates to like, black people have been here for a really long time. They've been creating community and finding themselves here. Yeah, that's one of my favorite stories. Devin? Yeah, I'm going to cheat a little bit and say it was actually one of the films. OK. I loved all of the films that were created, but one that really stands out to me

is Third Class Citizen, which was done by Ayo Tsalithaba. You know, he took this one, he took an original quote, which was really talking about the challenges of engaging with our immigration system here. And he then colored that, or they colored that, sorry, with a set of music and pacing that really heightened that story and created a whole new experience and provided further insight into that original story.

And I think that's the essence of why we did these short films. So it was incredibly captivating and engaging, I thought. All right. And the last minute or so that we have left, I have one question. This is a massive archive. You have unearthed a number of stories, 500 stories. And I'm sure people will continue to add as they visit the museum as well.

What do you hope it will be used for in the future? Want me to dance? So I need that. Go get the mic on this one. So there is, it exists. Black Diasporas as an exhibition exists physically in our space, but it also exists as a geolocated map on blackdiasporas.com, as well as hopefully someday,

museumofchirana.com, it'll also exist there. So the archive will live on, people will be able to go onto that map and hear all of the stories and watch all of the movies. Yeah, from now until hopefully forever. That's the hope that, yeah, it will continue to live on. Yeah, I think this work that we've done with Black Diasporas really contributes to kind of Museum of Toronto's

overall mission, which is to create and share digital stories about our city and be able to share those and make those accessible. So to what Bri is saying, I mean, it is something that will be documented, will be archived on our website, and will remain there for people in the city to be able to engage with long after this exhibition is closed. All right, well we're going to leave it there. Davin, Bria, thank you so much. I should mention again, Black Diasporas, Tacorano, Toronto is on at the Museum of Toronto

until March 1st, and you can go through the map of the oral archives at blackdiasporas.com. Yes. Thank you so much. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much.