The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - Jason Dunkerley: Running Towards My Own Truth

Episode Date: March 4, 2025

Jason Dunkerley was born with a condition that has rendered him blind his entire life. And yet, somehow, he has managed to represent Canada at five Paralympic Games and numerous other international events as a runner. How he does that, not to mention negotiating the obstacles in the rest of his life, is the subject of his new memoir. It's called "Visions of Hope: Running Towards My Own Truth". See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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the subject of his new memoir. It's called Visions of Hope, Running Towards My Own Truth, and it brings Jason Dunkerley to our studio tonight. It's great to meet you. Thanks, Steve. I enjoyed the book very much. Let's deal with the vision issue right off the top, because you and two younger twin brothers all had this eye condition rendering you blind.

So I have this right, you have never been able to see ever during the course of your life, right? No, we were born blind and grew up with blindness throughout, so it's never really, never changed. It's always been as it is constantly, yeah, no sight. Is it easier to negotiate your way through this world, having never been able to see versus having had sight and then losing it? I think so. I think having sight and then losing your ability to see and have the points of references

that come with eyesight would be very difficult. I know many people that have lost their eyesight and I think it's, for them, it them, I think it's been challenging, but for me it's always been as it is, so I'm used to it, you know, and I don't think you miss what you don't have, right? Right. Okay. Let's go back and start to tell the story of your life, because even though you run for Canada, ran for Canada, you're not from here. No.

You're from Northern Ireland originally. Right. Yeah. Did you, so let me ask you a political question right off the top. Did you have a view on how the troubles should have ended in Northern Ireland? Well, I mean, I think when you're there, and thinking back to growing up, of course,

we were aware of the troubles. And everybody's on one side or the other. But life sort of moved forward day to day. And I don't think we really consciously necessarily thought a lot about it. But coming here you realize how precarious things were and I think, I can say now, I mean what I think the ending I would really have liked to see and would like to see would be a peaceful one where people can coexist and share the beautiful country that Northern Ireland is and get along and look out for each other and support one another.

That's really what I would hope for. Your blindness was not the only thing you had to kind of make your way through and figure out during the course of your early life. You tell us in the book that your father abandoned you and the rest of the family. Do you know why? Well, my father left when I was seven.

My brothers were two and a half years younger than me. My sister was, I was in the middle, my sister was ten. I think he probably just had some of his own struggles. He lost his taxi business that he had. And I think he had a gambling issue. And he struggled. Probably had a difficult time coping. It was really hard losing our dad.

He left my mom with a lot on our plate, raising all of us on her own. But I think as life kind of went along, I probably came to judge him less for that and recognize that he probably did his best with the tools that he had. And I'm grateful for the things I do remember about him. He taught me how to ride a bike, and we played football, soccer with him. And those are memories that I still hold dear. Did you ever see him again after he left? Never did, no, I never did,

and he passed away about a year and a half ago. So unfortunately, we never reconnected. Here's what you say in the book, here's an excerpt, Sheldon, bring this up if you would. It was important to my mother that we grow up feeling independent and empowered to make our own choices. She wanted us to be able to stand on our own feet. Jason, how did she do that?

Well, I think she wanted us to be like any other kid, you know, to go outside and play around in the area where we lived, in the neighborhood we lived in, to ride bikes, to fall off our bikes, you know, and just have those kinds of experiences that every other kid really can relate to. And she wanted us to be able to think for ourselves and operate autonomously in the world. And I think I tell this story in the book, too.

I have a friend, Neil McCullough, from elementary school, who came over to my house one day. And I had this radio, CB radio, kind of a two-way radio communication system. And Neil wanted to use it. And he asked me, well, can I use it? And she said, well, you have to ask Jason. You know?

And Neil, you told me about that later. You said, well, my parents would have just said yes. So yeah, my mom wanted us to be our own people. Gotcha. You moved to Canada in 1991. You're still a kid, and you're right that you began running to silence the echoes of my homesickness.

So in a way, do you owe your athletic prowess to the fact that you were a pretty lonely kid? I think in a lot of ways, it was, athletics and running was, was an outlet for me to turn to. I mean, it really probably was in many ways throughout my, even my adult life too. Maybe still is even. But I think at that time, moving, leaving your,

sort of your home and everything that you're used to, you know, I was 13, it's a time when young people are vulnerable. I certainly was and I really struggled with the move that we made. And I think running gave me a focus and kind of a place to really put a lot of that sort of pent-up emotion and try to sort of deal with that move and work through it. And it became a really positive thing in the end. Were you bullied because of your visual impairment

when you went to school? When we were younger, my brothers and I, there were some kids in our neighborhood who would sort of poke a bit of fun sometimes at us being blind. And there was even a kid that we went to school with, and I remember this, and I might have mentioned it in the book too, he could see more than we could, but he was still, you know, completely blind. But he would kind of run up and sort of, you know, tap us on the shoulder

and then run away and say, well, you can't catch me. And one day I did, and I did catch him, and I kind of beat him up, and we each got suspended for a day. You did mention that in the book. But there were a lot of other kids, even in our inner neighbourhood, growing up, who really sort of looked out for us, and I would say sort of formed this cloak of protection or solidarity around us, and welcomed us into the circle that we had.

At what point did you realise, hey, you know what, I'm pretty good at this running thing, I could get really good at this. Well, I think probably sort of a couple years into high school, maybe grade 10 or grade 11, I had really a lot of support when it came to guide running at the school. I went to a school in high school, my brothers and I went to a school in Branford, the W. Ross McDonald School for students who were blind and the teachers there would you know guide us in cross country and track and we also wrestled and did some different sports there too.

But running was what I really loved to do and there were one or two teachers in particular you know Mr. Rowlings, Mr. Rattray, Mr. Howe. I mean they're really just incredible human beings who really went way over and above in their jobs to just support and empower us to really be ambitious and just work hard. They were there to guide us and support us. I think just with that type of support and being in that environment, it started to get a little better and you could do more, go longer. I think it's like a virtuous cycle where you're like,

if I work even harder at this I can get even better and who knows what can happen then so yeah running is I always say you know running is individual sport but when you've got people on your team like that and especially running with guide runners I mean you've got you really it's really got that team part to it too. Well indeed let's explain how this works because if people haven't seen this before the way you run a race is, well, you know what? We've got a clip here we're gonna show. This is from London 2012 Paralympic Games,

and people will see that you are tethered to a partner, and the partner is essentially your eyes for the race. So we're gonna take a look at that clip, then we'll come back and chat. Sheldon, if you would. It's not like you just go down the block and find somebody who's a relatively fast runner and they can jump into this. These guides

are world-class runners as well and they have to be. Otherwise they get dropped by their their competitor. So here we go the 1500 meters men's final for the T11 for visually impaired with guide runners. Now, we're looking at a race right now where you and several of your competitors are tethered to their guide runners and you are running around a track. And I mean, the first and obvious question is, how do you guys not crash into each other

even more than you do? Yeah, I mean, you spend a lot of time training together. So this race was with Josh Carranza. even more than you do. You spend a lot of time training together. This race was with Josh Carranza. Josh himself was a phenomenal runner who ran in the NCAA system and represented Canada at the Francophone Games. A very accomplished athlete. We started running together in 2011.

We were coached by Josh's high school coach who took me on as an athlete Ian Clark. We just did a lot of work over that year leading into London 2012 to the point where we're running together. I'm really almost not thinking even that there's somebody else tethered to me. The communication becomes really seamless and it enables us to work really quickly and closely together. And we're not talking much to each other. So Josh is able to kind of manipulate where we are and move us in and out. And all the teams are like that.

So there are collisions and things that happen. But I mean, by and large, the races go pretty smoothly. I noticed some of the racers have glasses on. How come? Well, all the blind racers are meant to wear glasses to ensure that no one can see. So there's a system of classification where people are tested by a medical ophthalmologist,

a doctor who looks in their eyes and tests to ensure that they have no eyesight, but just to really make sure the idea is that they would wear glasses just to eliminate any possibility of being able to see. Because I guess if you had five or ten percent vision you're you're technically legally blind but that's a big advantage over someone who can't see anything. And there are categories where people have five or ten percent vision but when in the category I competed in the T11 category everybody

is meant to run with a guide runner. Yeah that's how that category works. Okay Jason I got to ask you about this you're gonna remind me which race this is because I can't remember right now. You lost a gold by four one hundredths of a second. Which race was that? It was the Sydney 2000 Paralympics. It was the first Paralympics that I competed in. Running with the guide runner Greg Daley,

we ran together for 14 years. And we thought we could, you know, we were new to the Paralympics, you know, new to international running really. And we thought we could go to the front and just try to run away with the race. And we tried to do that and we almost managed it. Are you over it yet? Well, it took a long time because, you know, for a long time it felt like we had sort of lost,

kind of lost the race, lost first place, as opposed to kind of winning second. But yeah, I would say I'm over it now. But it was a process for sure. Yeah. Jason, I'm going to do another hard turn here, because not only have you had the challenge of visual impairment to deal with,

and your father abandoning you, but you have had more tragedy in your life. And you talk about it in the book. And I want to raise it with you now. One of your twin brothers, Chris, was lost to suicide 20 years ago. Do you yet have a full understanding of why that happened? I don't know that I'll ever have a full understanding of why it happened. I mean, Chris was...my brother John and Chris were twins. All of us were very active.

My brothers were more active in wrestling and they got involved in weightlifting. Chris really took it to the extreme. He got involved in bodybuilding and competed as a bodybuilder briefly in his early 20s. Something happened after a competition that he competed in in 2002 where he went through a bit of a low spell. I would say today we would probably call it more of a depression. But back then I don't think people were talking about depression as much or mental health as much. And we all thought he would sort of come through it. And it seemed that he had around Christmas of that year.

And then he returned to he was going to Fanshawe College. He went back to school at Fanshawe January 2023. You know, we, I remember it seemed like he was fine. As brothers are though, we weren't super close. We didn't check in on each other regularly and you know the next thing was end of January, you know, got a message from my mom saying I should come home right away. And I was in Guelph. I took a taxi home in the evening. And you know, basically the police have been to our house to tell my parents what had happened with Chris. And yeah, so I don't, we never understand really the full extent of the, I guess, the deaths that he got to.

But you know, it's obviously, it's very painful still to this day and it's actually the anniversary of Chris passing away was just January 31st so it's very I think about that you know every day but but certainly every year as the years pass there was another shocking incident in your life as well and I'm gonna read the excerpt from your book which describes it you're in Ottawa you are waiting to cross Colonel by Drive it's raining you, you are waiting to cross Colonel By Drive, it's raining. You and a friend start to cross the street and here's what happens next.

Shelton, bring this graphic up if you would and I'll read along. We started to jog across but then Stu spotted an oncoming car racing towards us from the right. Everything seemed to happen in slow motion after that. There was no good decision to be made. There was no going forward and no going back. I heard Stu yelling, Jay, we're going to get hit. I've often wondered why we didn't try to run for it, but I imagine Stu assumed we would never have made it. We stood there on the line in the

middle of the road and braced ourselves as the car hurled towards us at 70 kilometers an hour. We had turned our backs to the oncoming vehicle, and this is how we took the crushing impact of the SUV. Jason, what happened next? What I remember following that was what felt like a very long time just suspended in the air. And I think I remember thinking, where's the ground? It felt like this really long time just sort of hanging and hanging and hanging.

I actually don't remember hitting the ground but I remember lying on the ground. Stuart, my friend, also part of the National Parathletics team for many years, was thrown, we were both thrown, Stuart landed on the grass. And I landed on the road underneath an oncoming car which stopped. And you know there were people around us sort of, I think the person who stopped in the car had some blankets that they put over top of us and you know called an ambulance. And I was very sort of dazed. I couldn't really remember the date. I think I was able to kind of work backwards. It was November 6th of 2005.

So I figured that out eventually. I didn't really know where a prime minister was for a while. But things came back slowly. But you know just I didn't know they told me not to try to get up. Just think you were going to die? Well, when the ambulance came, I remember asking the driver, like, am I going to make it? And he said, yes, you will. And I think I kind of wondered, do they say that anyway?

But they took us into the hospital. And we stood there in the hospital for six days, spent a couple of days in intensive care. I had a hairline fracture of the tibia but I had a skull fracture which was I think the more concerning thing for me but you know fortunately recovered from from that it took time. Stuart's injury was a bit more complicated with his leg, he had a compound fracture with his tibia fibula so that led to you know several surgeries for Stuart and you know we got back to running, but for Stuart,

it wasn't, he never quite got back to where he was because of the nature of his injury. A couple of follow ups. I see a bit of a scar over your right eye. Yes. Is that from the accident? Exactly, yeah. It is, okay.

Second thing is, and you just referenced this, you competed again internationally after this. Yes. How in heaven's name did you do that? Well, I think I was very lucky, honestly. And I had really good physio and really good coaching, too, from Ray Allerick, the coach I had at that time with the Ottawa Lions Track and Field Club, where we really

just took things very slowly and didn't do much, definitely by the standards of the typical training we would do. But it enabled me over a period of sort of nine months to slowly come back in 2006. Running with Greg Daley again, go to the World Championships. We won the 1500 and we won the 800. Both kind of tactical races, I think different types of races, if it had been faster, it would have been much harder for us. But that was really the impetus for me

to really say to myself, I want to really put everything I can into training. And really, I think the year following 2007 was probably the best year we had over my running years. It's like, there's this old expression on the radio the hits just keep on coming and and with you that seems to be the case too. I'm gonna ask you a weird question here you ready? Sure. How many kidneys do you have? I have one. And where's the other one? So I donated a kidney to to Max's wife Colleen in 2013.

She was diagnosed with with they call a progressive renal insufficiency in 2008. Actually it happened when we were in Beijing when Colleen came over to watch the Paralympics and she got really sick on the way over and that's when they first started talking about kind of kidney failure. Colleen was able to continue with her kidneys for really five years you know through diet and she was being followed closely but with renal with the condition she had I mean it was an inevitability that sooner or later she would she would you know be a candidate

for a transplant so in 2012 when it got to the point where you know it was looking more likely that she would need it sooner you know in the near future. I was tested I was I was good enough as a match I wasn't perfect but with the with the anti-rejection medication it was such that that I could be a donor so I was able to to donate the kidney and I mean you know you go through kind of the post-operation recovery but very quickly you know I would say really within kind of six months to a year we were through it we were both thriving and I mean I don't even really think about it at all today and Colleen is doing very well herself you

know 11 12 years later she's the kidneys keeping her keeping her keeping her healthy so I'm really happy about that. Good for you. Your mother, who was the hero of your life, died quite young. She was 64 years old. Yes. And her last words to you were, Jason, everything will be OK. What did that mean to you when she said that? You know, it's been a message that I've turned to many times since.

I mean so many things happen in life that cause us to sort of panic and throw us off, take us away from maybe the things that are maybe more simple and profound and important. I think that day when she said it to me, when she said that to me, I was trying to encourage her not to give up. My mom had a very rapid cancer that really caused her to decline quickly. We were trying to encourage her to stay motivated not to throw in kind of the towel. But it was at a point where my mother only had a couple of days to live. So when she said that, everything will be okay. It's been a message that I've really just tried to internalize in difficult situations, you know, and just remind myself that at an elemental level, everything will be okay, you know, despite the anxieties or

fears or different feelings that can derail us. Jason, I have one last question for you. And it is a bit of an odd question, so I give you the heads up on that. OK. If, through some kind of miraculous scientific advancement, you were somehow able to gain your sight, what is the first thing you'd like to know what it looks like?

Hmm. Well, you did warn me. I would love to know what the people in my life who I love look like. Yeah, I think a lot of simple things, just simple flowers, trees. Yeah, nature. I'd start there. Now, I thought you might say yourself. Do you know what you look like? I think I know enough. I'm getting the gray hair. You do have a little bit of gray hair, I have to say.

Yes, that's true. That is true. Well, I can't tell you how grateful we are that you made the track from Ottawa to come to our studio today and talk about your book, Visions of Hope, Running Towards My Own Truth. Jason Dunkerley, a great pleasure to meet you and keep on keeping on.

Pleasure, Steve. Thank you so much for having me here.