The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - Misissauga's Next Mayor

Episode Date: May 22, 2024

When Mississauga votes for its next mayor on June 10, the winner will be just the city's third mayor since 1978. The new mayor will continue Mississauga's transformation from suburb to city, and has the potential to become a significant player in a vote-rich area ahead of the upcoming provincial election. Noor Javed of the Toronto Star, Zachary Spicer of York University, Rahul Mehta from More Homes Mississauga and Sue Shanly of the Mississauga Residents' Associations Network discuss the issues.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

From epic camping trips to scenic local hikes, spending time outdoors is a great way to create lasting memories to share with friends and family. This summer, TVO is celebrating the natural wonders that inspire unforgettable adventures with great documentaries, articles, and learning resources about beloved parks in Ontario and beyond. Visit tvo.me slash Ontario summer stories for all this and more. And be sure to tell us your stories for a chance to win great prizes. Help TVO create a better world through the power of learning. Visit TVO.org and make a tax-deductible donation today. For much of the last half century or so, many people have regarded Mississauga as that bedroom community next to Toronto.

But of course, it is much more than that. Over the years, Mississauga has grown to be Ontario's second largest economy and third largest city by population. Now, for the first time in more than four decades, there's a real mayor's race where the outcome is anything but assured. The next mayor will continue Mississauga's transformation from suburb to city and has the potential to become a significant player in a vote-rich area that will undoubtedly be a factor in future federal and provincial elections. And with that, let's welcome in Hamilton, Ontario, Zachary Spicer, Associate Professor at York University's School of Public Policy and Administration. And with us here in studio, Sue Shanley, Chair of the Mississauga Residents Association Network. Rahul Mehta, Policy Director at More Homes Mississauga.

And Noor Javid, who covers the 905 for the Toronto Star. And it's great to have you three here in our studio. And Zachary Spicer and beautiful Hamilton, great to have you on the line as well. Forty-five years and only two mayors, right? Hazel McCallion and Bonnie Crombie, who of course is left to be the Ontario Liberal leader. So there is a by-election to replace her. Voting day is June the 10th. And if you haven't been following the campaign so far, Noor's going to get us all up to date here on who the main candidates are. Fire away. Sure. So there's 20 people who are running for mayor. There are clear front runners based on polling. And there's only been a few polls that have come out in the last month or two.

And, you know, I think it's interesting that four members of council or previous members of council are running. And those are kind of they have kind of become the front runners out of those. And based on polling, you know carolyn parish who is a uh i think household name for many in canada is has has had a clear lead in the polls um and you know a little bit behind her is deepika damerla who's also well known in the liberal mpp provincial circles and alvin ted joe who's a new beyond council but he has also kind of been quite vocal on a lot of really progressive things policies and so he's been third and Steve Dasko who also is a councillor has been kind of a close a close fourth I guess you say it's all very kind of you know it's close

pretty much at this point so those are the four main front runners but there is you know 20 16 other candidates if people are looking for a different voice. Right. And just to follow up, Carolyn Parrish, people might know because she was a longtime Liberal member of Parliament. Deepika Damerla was a member of the Ontario Legislature. Alvin Tedjo ran for the Ontario Liberal leadership against Stephen Del Duca. That was two contests ago. So those names may be familiar for that reason. Zachary, to you next, what do you think people are looking for in a mayor right now? Well, they're looking for policy positions for sure.

Housing is top of mind, absolutely. So is affordability. But looking back at Mississauga's recent history, I think what they're really looking for is a champion for the city. The last two previous mayors have been very, very vocal champions, very prominent provincial actors as well. And so I think that voters are also trying to look for someone who will fit that image to a certain degree, along with the sort of issue alignment that is affecting the city right now. Sue, let me get you on that as well. What do you think people are looking for in their next mayor?

I think they're going to be looking for somebody that can be a leader for the city and a voice of the residents. I think that's kind of been lacking. And we need to have somebody that can be strong. We've got a lot of challenges facing us. We've got the province that we're dealing with, Bill 23, Bill 112. We've got a lot of...

No one knows what these numbers mean, so what are you talking about? Okay, so Bill 23 is the more homes built faster, which means that the Ford government is mandating intensification in Mississauga. And some people like that and some people don't. Exactly. that the Ford government is mandating intensification in Mississauga. And some people like that and some people don't. Exactly.

Mississauga has an official plan and it's got local area plans. It's got planners, it's got specialists, and they've spent years coming up with these plans. And to have them trumped by the province is not necessarily a very good thing. Okay. Rahul, how would you answer that question? I think there's going to be a real contrast here. You know, it's interesting for being in the city itself, you're seeing a lot of celebration where Mississauga is also happening to turn 50 right now. And yet more people are not so much celebrating, but asking themselves, will I have a

future in this city? What does the next 50 mean to me? Because we know having reached our kind of urban boundary, we're not going to be able to build or move in the same way we always have. So I think there's going to be this potential disconnect, this risk of your traditional voter, who is fairly well established here. We know the voter turnout is low. What are their issues in contrast to the existing populations that are having trouble to stay here? How are they going to continue to live here? How are they going to continue to move here? Will there be that kind of contrast between maybe a traditional voters' argument of crime and low taxes, as opposed to, well, we actually have a lot of things we need to find money for that we don't have right now?

You know, I remember, Sue, when you could buy a house in Mississauga for $100,000. What's the average price now? I believe the average price is about $800,000. $800,000 for a house in Mississauga. Absolutely. Unbelievable. And again, that's one of the big problems. How do you keep seniors staying in place, aging in place? And how can young people afford to stay in Mississauga? Noor, I wonder if, you know, sometimes in these election campaigns, there's not a thimble's worth of difference among all the major candidates. How about in this one? Do they divert on any major issues in a major way? I mean, it's a good question. And it's the one I've

asked them all that, you know, your priorities are very similar, right? Affordability, more housing supply, you know, low crime taxes. So how would anybody who's coming into this blind know who to vote for? You know, they do give me like a little bit, you know, an inch here or an inch there in terms of difference. But I think a lot of voters will look at, if they're keen to look at the voting record

of these candidates, they'll look at where, you know, certain candidates stand on, you know, social positions, international positions. Mississauga is such a diverse community. A lot of people are looking at, I've heard from the Muslim community in particular, people are wondering which politician has taken a position that's sympathetic to, let's say, what's happening in the Middle East. So people are looking at different things.

It might not be a local priority. It might be an international priority. So I know that has come up. I think some candidates are also, have taken clear positions on transit or biking lanes that, you know, in terms of, do we want more biking lanes? Do we want to look at different ways to bring in biking lanes? There's been a lot of discussion around housing.

You know, one candidate in particular has kind of come out as a more progressive candidate on housing. Who's that? Alvin Tedjo. Okay. So he's kind of seen as someone who's really as a more progressive candidate on housing. Who's that? Alvin Tedjo. Okay. So he's kind of seen as someone who's really pushing a very progressive vision, a lot more density, and more ways to kind of bring in the youth into it.

And he's really kind of, I think, going for that youth vote, whereas someone like Carolyn Parrish, she's so well-known for so many years. As you brought up, she's a federal MP and has been on council for decades. And so a lot of people who are well-established, who know what they'll get, are kind of looking at Carolyn Parrish. Zachary, can I get you to follow up on that? Any big cleavages among the candidates that you can see? We haven't seen a ton on the policy front, but for me, one of the more interesting components is the generational shift between some of the candidates, right? We have candidates who are more well-known, who are established, who've been fixtures of the city's politics for 30 plus years.

And we have a younger generation of candidates too, who are being a little bit more progressive on things like housing, livability, stuff like that. So for me, that's one of the big things to sort of look at here as well, is what does a younger generation want? And there are certainly younger candidates who are willing to step up and champion some of those issues. That's interesting. Do you see the major difference in policy areas or in generations in this campaign? Yeah, I think I wish I saw more difference in policy areas. I think, you know, to Noor's point, we haven't actually seen these, you know, we don't see it in the past either, but a fleshed out platform, especially to the topic that is present for people. You know, housing is not a luxury for people like myself, for a lot of residents that are finding or trying to find a reason to stay. And we're having to fall

back on these kind of traditions of, okay, the name recognition, the incumbent advantage. And for a lot of young voters, you know, we might be voting more in the provincial and federal levels. We don't have the stats for the local level, but you know, one would argue that if we don't see that substance, if we don't see that kind of cooperation as well. So again, contentious issues that I wish weren't coming up like Bloor Street and bike lanes. If we actually, I think, saw more of that focus coming through policy, I think more young people would actually be excited and maybe more likely to vote. Okay, let me follow up on that, because that has been in the last few days something that

has emerged as a bit of a point of departure among a couple of the leading candidates. Deepika Damler has said on the record, she's not sure about spending all these extra millions on all these bike lanes, and some of the other candidates have sort of accused her of torquing that for political reasons. How do you see it? I think it's definitely divisive. From my perspective, we have to think of active transportation. We have to think about our cars and we've got to think about transit. As far as I'm concerned, Bloor Street, I'd like to see two lanes still and a bike lane. You have to have that. You can't grow.

We're having growing pains. We have to move forward and we have to build a city that has a workable, livable transportation system. Rahul, do you think there is a consensus in Mississauga about whether to or not to increase the number of bike lanes? You know, it's a frustration, actually, because we just don't know, right? We are in a city that's proudly 50, and we have a virtual absence of media within our city proper, or the traditional, you know, NGOs that might kind of pick up the slack if media isn't reporting. And so, you know, even forums like this, I think that conversation hasn't really happened. And in some ways, it makes the debate coming to the fore good. I'm not good about the timing, but it's a larger

question to me of, are we going to be willing to finally accept the cost of a city, a real city that's going to have infrastructure pains, growing pains? I think candidates that can really get past that painful conversation of, well, we probably do have to raise taxes to pay for things. That's going to be the conversation starter where media might not have been present. Well, Noor, I guess it gets back to the question of whether Mississauga sees itself as kind of a suburb of Toronto where the car reigns supreme, or whether it sees itself as more of an intensified city, as Toronto clearly now does, at least the old city of Toronto, where you got to have bike lanes because you're trying to encourage

active participation and transportation. And I think this election is really a referendum on, like, where Mississauga wants to go in the next 50 years. Like, does it want to continue to be this suburb that, you know, suited the commuters of Mississauga, of Toronto, who would come into work and then drive up there? Or does it really kind of see itself in this new vision as a city? And when I have done interviews on this, people have talked about this, that we're not ready to let go of our

suburban past. But we also see the reality facing us, that we have grown out. We can only grow up now. We need better transportation. Our children can't afford to live in Mississauga. They can't find homes. They move out to Milton or Burlington or even further out because they can't afford. They can't find homes. And so I think this is a reality that people are, they're seeing, they're facing it and they're seeing it and it's coming at them quite quickly. And I've been really surprised and actually pleasantly surprised, it's when I speak to

people, that people are thinking about this. Like, how do we want our cities to look in 50 years? Do we want, you know, one person I spoke to had this great term. He said, you know, we've had these windshield neighborhoods and windshield neighbors forever, right? What does that mean? Like, we say hello to our neighbor through the windshield.

And then we say goodbye to them through the windshield. And we ask about their kids through the windshield. And we see their children grow up through the windshield, right? And we've never, like, really gone from, moved from that. But a lot of people want to. They want to go out and actually shake their hand and, you know, not be stuck in traffic all the time. And so I think, and so many people have said that to me all, you know, across generations, that I really think that Mississauga is at a point where they really want to kind of, you know, tepidly and, you know, shyly go into becoming a city.

But like Rahul is saying, it's painful. It's not easy. Well, let me get Zachary on that as well. Zachary, do you know whether Mississauga wants to continue to feature that suburban lifestyle it has been well known for for the past half century? Or does it want to be a more intensified urban existence? Well, that's an interesting question

because for most of the city's history, there's been remarkable consensus around policies and politics, right? There was a certain type of housing that we were building, a certain type of community that we were pursuing. And that is changing because the city is now facing harder choices around things like taxes, finance and crime safety. Right. And so I think that that the city could be at a bit of a inflection point here, thinking about what the next 50 years holds. And there are certain parts of the city that want to remain a suburb. The people who have who have lived there for 30, 40 years moved to Mississauga because they wanted a certain lifestyle. years moved to mississauga because they wanted a certain lifestyle like they wanted a single detached family home they wanted to drive and they wanted a certain type of lifestyle that wasn't

exactly what you would find within toronto um they probably want more of that right but then there is a younger generation of folks who say that well i want to live here, too. And I deserve the option that the previous generations had access to. Well, we took our cameras into the streets of Mississauga not too long ago to find out what some of the residents there, how they answer these very questions. And, OK, Sheldon, we got that clip pack ready to go. So let's roll it. I'm here today in Mississauga to ask residents what is the most pressing issue for them in this upcoming election. We're moving back to Toronto because the rental prices in Mississauga have gotten so outrageous. The cost of living is shocking here. The rent's going up and up and up. Regulations on rent control. I moved here two years back, and it was $1,800.

Now it's $2,400. My kids want to stay in Mississauga, the area that they grew up and went to school in. But Mississauga may be too expensive. It's become something of a hot button issue. The reconstruction of Bloor Street, this would involve reducing the number of car lanes from four to three.

The transit system that they had was good for the past years. But because we've become an even bigger city than what we were, and more people are moving into Mississauga to rent and not live, they don't have cars. Are you going to vote? I think this year I'm going to vote, yeah. And what do you want to see the mayor do? Improve the transportation, like connectivity with downtown. More than 50% of my paycheck goes towards rent.

So I'd really like whoever is going to be the mayor in the upcoming elections, like to at least look into the housing market and just control it. Okay, Leticia, merci beaucoup. Some really interesting answers there from some of the people who live in Mississauga. And I want to follow up with you before we get to some polling numbers, because you just did the most massive exhale I've ever heard halfway through that clip back. What were you so verklempt about there? I'm definitely glad that infrastructure conversations are part of the dialogue. But Bloor Street, for those who know the history about it, it's really showcasing, in my view, an uglier side of our city, which is the existing voters are not representative of our city. We know that. It's one of the lowest voter turnouts in the country at around 20 percent. But they are feeling a regular election. This is a by-election. And so, you know, could we have a Toronto moment where it actually goes up?

But I don't, I'm really not so sure because you see young people, you know, who can vote, often not voting, not feeling the issues resonating with them. So not contention, let's just get it built. And then you see a lot of people like some in the clip, you know, there's newcomers, there's people who can't vote. They don't feel a sense of agency in any place. You know, the consultations happen at a time of day, they can't make it, they're working two jobs. They are either moving through our city, many people, whether they live here or not, or they're living here and trying to just survive. And I'm seeing a lot of these people, their issues are not being met. And again, this Bloor Street conversation, it's neglecting really those who are trying to come, who are trying to support that tax base, support the growth that we actually need.

Because the reality is this, suburbia as it's known, it's kind of a farce. We never had the money to pay for it. Our infrastructure deficit is 200 plus million. We've never actually accounted for the cost of our city, whether we're 50 or 100. So I'm really hoping that we can get past something like Bloor because that road is

actually crumbling. We need to do something there. The question is when and how. Well, interestingly enough, and Sheldon, can I get you to put these numbers up? This is Liaison Strategies who did a poll a couple of months ago, and they asked people, in your opinion, what's the most important issue facing Mississauga? And they gave a list that people could pick from. And here's what they had to say. I wonder how many people would know what number one is on the list. Want to take a guess? What's number one that people identified as the biggest issue? Crime. Taxes. You got it. Crime. Crime. 30 percent. You just saw it there. Crime. Affordable housing comes next to 25 percent. Then comes traffic at 16, transit at nine, inflation at nine, homelessness at 3%. Do you not have homelessness in Mississauga?

3% is very low. Something else, 5%. 3% said they weren't sure. Okay, let's follow up on this. Why would crime be something identified by almost one in three people in Mississauga? I think it's just something that's easy to understand. It's easy for people to understand crime. They're also seeing news coverage on crime, whether it's in their neighbourhood, or it's in Brampton, or it's in Ontario at large, especially around car thefts is the big issue that when I was interviewing people on this,

they said car thefts is something that they have seen on TV, they've read about, they've heard about, and now their neighbours are experiencing car theft, carjackings as well, as we're seeing across the province. So I think it's something that is just so easy to understand. I think if you were to ask 10 people, eight of them will probably say, I'm worried about crime, you know? So I think that's one of the reasons why. And I think the people, like Rahul has pointed out, a lot of people in Mississauga who have been there for a long time, they're not facing the housing issues, right? They're well-established. They have homes, right?

So that's why they would not identify it as a mission. Exactly. It's the people who are either newcomers to Mississauga, which there's a lot, or people who are young who are really facing and feeling that pinch on affordability and housing. Zachary, let me go to you on this, because Mississauga, strangely enough, I'm from Hamilton. I can remember driving into Toronto all the time and seeing the population of Mississauga constantly, inexorably go up and up and up and up on those signs as you drive in. But there actually was a little population decline in the last couple of censuses. That's the only major city in Canada where that's happened. Any idea why?

It was, yeah. I think it was 0.5%, which is not significant, but at the same time, growth has been expected for years and years and years. It was just taken for granted. And I think that that is interesting. We think about young people voting. I think what we can see partially is that a lot of young people are voting with their feet. They are leaving, right? They are going to find places that are more affordable, perhaps a little bit more welcoming, but they are going to find places that work for them

and align with what they can afford and what they want to see. So I think that the city is facing a couple of hard truths about the sort of community that it is and the sort of people who can afford to live there. Is this a good time to remind our viewers and listeners that you are from Mississauga, but were priced out and therefore don't live there anymore? I grew up there, absolutely. So I saw the city grow from a place where there was open fields in some cases to condos and towers and stuff like that. And there's definitely a lot of shift, especially when you look at the sort of downtown core there.

There are buildings there where there used to just be a massive mall and city hall and a giant library, right? So Miss Lager has certainly built, but I think what we're seeing now is that it's not keeping up with the pace of people who want to live there and stay there. Sue, they're building what's going to be a very expensive Hazel McCallion LRT line, right? Are people for it or against it?

You're asking me that question. Boy, oh boy. That's, for me, I've always not been a fan. I felt the money would have been better spent putting more east to west connections. And this one's going to go north-south like the Brampton. That's north-south. I understand we have our intensification is along that corridor,

but most people are traveling from the east to the west. That's a done deal, though, right, this line? It's a done deal. It's happening. We have to accept that. But at the same time, it's over budget, and it's way behind schedule. So that's a problem. I was just about to say, you know the Eglin Crosstown is 100 metres north of the studio,

which is six years overdue and three times the budget. They're not even talking about an end date anymore. You might get yours open first, that is true. Okay, what about, you talked about turnout a second ago, and this may be a good time to look in on that. I see in 2022, again, a general election, the percentage of turnout was 22%. In 2018, it was 27%, a little higher. You still haven't even got three in 10 people voting during a general election.

Now, how much of that could be because everybody thought it was a foregone conclusion, therefore they didn't bother to vote? This is the first competitive race in four and a half decades. Do you think maybe that would encourage people to vote? You know, I really hope so, Steve, because you hear from people that they really are anticipating an opportunity here. They are anticipating potential for change, really a rethink of how we grow our city, which, you know, the irony of here, Ontario, for example, is, you know, why did we have to have an intensification corridor?

Well, because most of our city, about two thirds to three quarters is zoned for just single family homes. And that hasn't changed even with what became contentious fourplexes, right? The hot button issues have become these small, just dips into city building rather than what we need, which is kind of a far-reaching city building exercise.

And it's going to start from the bottom. I think if the community doesn't feel agency and they don't see kind of, you know, an opportunity with these candidates who are all incumbents in some way or another, they are not going to show up because even though we do need a change, people just are starting to lose faith, I think, in the elected officials. So it's really going to be a question of, yeah, like, do we have our cake and eat it too? Do we intensify citywide and face that pain? Or do we actually have more of these arguments over these individual corridors?

Noor, I want to ask you about a political issue that has been really at the forefront of Mississauga for about the last decade, if not longer, and certainly the former mayor, Bonnie Crombie, championed this big time. And that is the notion that Mississauga wants to be its own kind of sovereign republic and leave Peel region. Now, she successfully prosecuted that case with the provincial government and then, and Doug Ford even promised Hazel McCallion on her deathbed that he would do it. And then he took it back. Right. Are any of the major candidates for mayor championing this issue right now, or is it a dead letter? It's a it back. Right. Are any of the major candidates for mayor championing this issue right now or is it a dead letter? It's a dead letter. Yeah. It is. I don't think, yeah,

it hasn't come up at all in this current debate or discussion. I think people are just trying to move on. I think they are realizing though that, you know, the province has a lot of control of a lot of issues and I think that is one thing that's coming up quite a bit, you know, the province has a lot of control of a lot of issues. And I think that is one thing that's coming up quite a bit. You know, even with crime, right? I mean, so many people in Mississauga are concerned about crime. But is crime really in the jurisdiction of a mayor? No, it's not. There's only so much a mayor can do to make a safe community.

So I think... The mayor sits on the police commission, though, right? They do. But in terms of, like know you know i guess i guess you know addressing like carjackings or car thefts like it's not really a municipal issue in terms other than i guess you're right that there is a um that connection with the police um but my point is to say that i think what what what has come across and very clear is that the province runs and controls so much of how mississauga will grow and the future of Mississauga.

And I think that has become very clear. And there are certain candidates like, you know, Deepika Damerla, who has brought this up quite a bit, that we need to get Mississauga the same respect that Toronto has, both provincially and federally, where this huge economy, where this very, you know, large city, we bring in so much, you know, benefit to the province.

And we should be recognized both in terms of getting funding for our social programs and other infrastructure programs to the extent that Toronto does. I mean, Mississauga and Peel is really on the forefront, for example, on the refugee crisis. And they just really haven't got that same amount of, I think, support that I also see it in terms of Mississauga, Mississauga deserves perhaps, you know, is what the candidates are saying.

Well, the most massive economic hub, of course, is the airport. Exactly. People forget, you know. They say it's in Toronto. It's called Toronto Pearson Airport, but it's in Mississauga. Zachary, I should follow up with you on that issue that we were just talking about here, the notion of Mississauga separating from Peel region. that we were just talking about here, the notion of Mississauga separating from Peel region.

Any possibility that that's going to turn into some kind of issue, despite the fact the province has turned thumbs down on it? Not right now, I don't think. But with that said, I don't think Mississauga is done pursuing that. And I think what we could see is the next mayor making that case again at some point down the road. I think what the province has signaled quite clearly is that it's not happening right now. With that said, the next premier could potentially be

Bonnie Crombie, who was certainly a champion of this particular idea. So I don't think we're sort of out of the woods of experiencing this particular issue. It just may play out more at the provincial level down the road a bit more. Okay. With just a couple of minutes left here, I want to put one more issue on the table,

and that is there was actually a bit of a sparky exchange a few days ago when Carolyn Parrish, according to the polls, the leading candidate to win the mayoralty, announced that she wasn't going to participate in any more debates. She was dropping out, she said, because she was getting too much harassment, online harassment about certain issues. What do you think about that? Is that going to, do you see that as playing a role in the outcome of this thing? I do. I do. I think it's unfortunate. I think it's unfortunate that she had harassment. But at the same time, I think it's important as a candidate, you have to be out there, you have to be doing the debates.

And if she's not doing these debates, she has to be knocking on those doors and being visible. Lack of community engagement is part of the problem in Mississauga. If we're going to get that vote above 20 percent, you've got to be out there knocking on doors. Yeah, I mean, Raul, she was criticized for sort of running a peekaboo frontrunners campaign. Yeah, sure, you want to drop out because you're in first place and you don't want to have anything potentially go wrong during a debate that might cost you the election. How are people reacting, in your judgment, to the fact that she's not going to participate anymore? I think some people are not surprised.

For example, it is known that members of council, including former Councillor Parrish, do block people on social media, which has been frowned upon. I'm definitely fully aware of that on certain topics, let's just say. Have you been blocked by that? I have been blocked, yes. What did you do, Ro?

What did you do? Believe it or not, it was about cycling. So it comes full circle here. But I think it's a challenge, right? We don't have that media ecosystem, that NGO ecosystem. You know, Cooksville, the former candidate for our downtown when the city was just starting up, you know, that's a community where you're seeing this amazing grassroots surge in work on solutions for housing. You know, More Homes Mississauga, we've given them this kind of golden ticket where they could have focused on housing,

come out to these rare forums of dialogue with the community, debates, where the media just can't take that slack in a city like ours in the situation we're in. So I think it's a real missed opportunity where a candidate who has their whole career said, I'm here to kind of duke it out, tough it out in the ring, by pulling out, you're really sending voters the opposite message that I'm not really a candidate for you. I'm a candidate for people who have voted for me before. Zachary, maybe I can get you to comment on this aspect of it. You know, we're in the, well, how much time we got here?

About a week and a half, maybe a little more, a couple of weeks until Election Day. June 10th is the by-election date. If somebody from Mississauga is watching or listening to this right now, and they're on the fence about voting, what would you say to them about why it's important to do it? Well, I would say that we haven't seen a lot of regime change, so to speak, over the last decades. Right. So you've had, like you mentioned earlier, two mayors in 45 years. Mississauga likes incumbents. So whoever is elected this time can very well be reelected next time and reelected next time after that. Right. So I would say there is an opportunity here to to select the mayor, not just for the continuation of Bonnie Crombie's term, but

perhaps for the next couple of election cycles. So it is, I think, quite important. So if you're not sure who you're going to be voting for, visit the websites, call the campaigns, get in touch with them, figure it out, because I think it is quite important, even though, as we discussed, voter turnout, I think, is going to be quite low. But I think it's important that everyone votes. Gotcha. That's our time, everyone. I want to thank you for coming into TVO, both actually and virtually, to participate today. Zachary Spicer from York University on the line from Hamilton. Sue Shanley, Rahul Mehta, Noor Javid. Thanks so much, everybody, for being on TVO tonight.

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