The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - Shannon Lee Simmons: What Do Young People Need to Know About Money?

Episode Date: April 11, 2025

When looking for financial advice, viewers of this program might want to turn to this familiar face. Shannon Lee Simmons is a financial planner and founder of the New School of Finance, and in her latest book "Making Bank: Money Skills for Real Life," she gives younger readers some key insights into how they should manage their money.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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support or make a first time donation and continue to discover your two point TDO. When looking for financial advice, viewers of this program might want to turn to this familiar face. Shannon Lee Simmons is a financial planner and founder of the new School of Finance, and in her latest book, Making Bank, Money Skills for Real Life, she gives younger readers some key insights into how they should manage their money. Welcome back, Shannon.

Thanks for having me. I am 40-something and I was like, I don't know half the things in this book. And on it, it says for teens, but I learned so much. So money is really hard to talk about at any age. Why did you choose to write a book to help young people with their finances? So many reasons. It started rather organically. In my day to day life as a financial planner,

I had clients who have teenagers. And they were like, can you just sit down with my teen? We're having fights about money. Or my kid just got their first job, and they want to sit down. Can you teach them how to budget? And so I started working with teens sort of like on the side within the context of that and learned very quickly there's so much going on with this demographic,

this cohort is so unique. And so... How is it unique? So this demographic or this cohort, and the ones just slightly older in their 20s now, like this is a cohort that grew up never seeing money. Their parents were like tapping from a young age. Like when I was a kid, I would go on Friday to the bank. My dad had a bank book and you would like see money come out.

And then I would see him give it to the pizza man. I saw it. This cohort has rarely seen or touched money, except for maybe in allowance. How does that change your relationship with money if you don't actually see it? I think it's almost like points and gamification. And I say that not in a concerning way,

but it makes sense. And I started to realize that that was a trend amongst this cohort, number one. And number two, never before has it been so easy to like have a day trading account. You can like make, you can buy and sell stocks from a phone when you're 18. Or tap technology where, or like you could buy something

online that you want and it's like, you don't even have to input your credit card stuff. This is coming at 18. So I felt like if they don't have the practice of these skills before the stakes get real, and you're gonna fumble and make mistakes in money, that's gonna happen every generation. But now the stakes feel so high so quick,

and it's so easy to get yourself into trouble, potentially at 18. So that's why I really wanted to write this book. We're going to talk about social media and gambling, because I think this is something this cohort is also dealing with. This book is directed to 12 to 17-year-olds. Is there an age that's just too young to talk about money?

That's a great question. I think you can always talk about money. But when you have younger kids, I think maybe more focusing in on budgeting and almost treating budgeting like an inevitable household chore, like laundry. You know what I mean? We don't get emotionally upset about doing the laundry. Well, I mean, I do sometimes,

but when I can't keep up with it. But like, it's part of a skill set, a domestic labor that you need to like teach your children like a chore. And I think when they're younger, doing that with like grocery shopping, and I'm sure anyone listening to this is gonna eye roll when I say what I'm about to say, but I actually

think it's important if you're trying to teach someone about money, a young person, like you take out money and you make it a math problem. Like, here's what we need, here's what we have, what can we do? But I hate math, it's horrible. That's what I get from my kids. Totally. And then it's like, okay, then we don't get the treats and I make all the decisions. So that's like a motivation for them.

Like, oh, well, I do want that convenience food or I I do want those granola bars, or I do want that things, like I guess I'll participate, do you know what I mean? And that idea of like hating math and having it not fun is one of the main reasons I also want to write this book and why I wrote it like stories, like fiction, fictional characters so that it doesn't read like a sort of textbook because one of the feedback pieces I had over the last two years working with teenagers was like I I don't want to do math for fun

right I don't want to do that I don't math is an everyday life everything that we do every day so two years you researched this book yes I did and some of the stories that you tell in the book I was really shocked at the age and the things that young people are concerned with yeah do you see more young people concerned about their financial future? Yes, and again, I don't even know that a book like this would have hit 10 years ago. And what's interesting and unique about this cohort of teens

and the ones that are just above and just below is that they are now getting financial information from the internet in ways that didn't exist even 15 years ago or 10 years ago like financial influencers. So before, you would sort of learn your financial information from your parents, and now they're starting to teach it in school, which is fantastic. So from teachers.

And then maybe your direct peers would have something to say about what's going on with your money. But now, you can choose to follow people online who are doing direct education about finances. And some of the educators are great. And some of them really push product. They're sponsored by credit cards. And also some of them can be pushing a very high risk

tolerance about getting rich quick and how to invest quick and all this kind of stuff. So I think that this cohort has questions way younger. I'm talking about day trading with a 14-year-old being like, what? You know what I mean? Like that I was obsessed with gem on the holograms. No younger. I wasn't thinking about money, but there's a lot happening in the world Yeah, I think kids also have access to news in a way that maybe you got it when we were younger You got it kids also picking up that the threat of an affordability that we're experiencing

Yes, and I think that that's what's leading to this, like I gotta make money now, I gotta make it fast. And it's like, I don't care about the long run. It's not that I don't care about the long run, but I don't really trust the long run view, because they're aware that like housing is expensive. So many times I heard, especially from the older teens, 15, 16, 17, like a lot of anxiety,

but like, well, I'm gonna go to post-secondary, but it'll probably take me three to five years to get a job that I can actually move out with. They're saying these things, like they're super aware of it, or maybe I won't buy a house, but I would love to, so I'd love a job that could allow me to buy a house one day and not be stressed.

Like, they're talking about work-life balance. I like 15, because I think they're also seeing a generation of parents who are grinding it out. And the conversation at home, the conversation in the news. I think somebody might hear that and think that's harming kids. But is it harming them? I don't think so. I really, I mean, I think the kids that I was talking to, and I tried to do a wide, different array of socioeconomic

backgrounds and all that kind of stuff, it's not that they're not hopeful. I think they're realistic. I'm an elder millennial. I'm 40 years old. And I was part of that first cohort who was like, everything will be fine if I just go to school. And then I graduated. That's right.

And then I graduated. And I was like, oh my god, this is not happening in the same way. So there was that grief of a timeline that I thought was happening and that a lot are still reconciling with. Myself included like, oh my gosh, I followed the rules and it didn't work out the way I thought it was going to. And I think this demographic just by like having information is like a lot more realistic. They are hopeful, but they just see it for what it is.

They know what's up. I was really impressed, actually. Well, I mean, that word you just used, grief, because you are told if you do certain things in your life, then when you get older and you've got that plan, you should be okay. I think for these young people, it seems like the future is so far away. How do you inspire them to maybe take it a bit more seriously? This book is really about what's happening tomorrow. I don't think one can. So why I think this book is unique and what I was really aiming for after chatting with them

is that they were asking great questions about the long run. First of all, the teenage brain is like, that's like a forever from now. Number two, what about climate change? Like, why would I invest in that? We don't even know what the stock market's gonna be like 25 years from now. Why would I do that? I don't even know if I'm gonna have a job until then. And again, not negatively, just like realistic. So how do I motivate? It's like, this is the gift to parents, I think, with this. Make it about what they want tomorrow. Like, the savings habit that we want to see them practice,

which is basically they get money and they don't spend all of it. That's the most powerful gift. That's the most powerful habit anyone in the whole world can practice. So if they want $80 primer at Sephora and you don't want to buy for them, then like motivate them with their allowance

or their part-time job and like use the tools in this book for like, OK, when do we get that? And you put it aside and you can get the thing without it being a shameful thing, without it being like, you don't need that. Why are you doing that? Like harness what they want and use it as motivation for them to care about money today in a way that's like exciting. And I had a lot of parents as well as we're working through this like, okay, you do this,

I'll match it. So like, again, engaging with your teen in a positive way with money, because I had lots of parents being like, I can hear myself passing my money trauma onto my children. Like I hear the words coming out of my mouth. And I'm like, we're human, of course. Well, speaking of parents, because I think when we were getting, when we were growing up, allowance might have been a different amount. So maybe in our minds, we're thinking, well, $20

was fine when I was younger. Why isn't it OK for you? How do you have those conversations with our parents? Literally, Mia, chapter three. Because what you're talking about is real. And I think that was such a disconnect that I came across multiple times.

That's why that's in the book, is that parents think that kids should be able to afford it because they don't think it's important to have the whatevers or the, that you spend too much on Starbucks or you spend too much on this, that's like your own values, not necessarily of your team. And if the whole point of this is to teach financial responsibilities,

that when they turn 18 and that phone goes in their hand, they already have a phone probably, but like the ability to buy and the ability to trade, you want them to be prepared for that. The whole point is to practice. It's not like abstinence is the best thing. It's like teach them how to spend money and save money and enjoy their money at the same time

because that's what it's for. And if they make mistakes, they learn. They use the word trauma. Yeah. So for the book, you interview different teens with different financial circumstances. Did you find a correlation between how the kids are with money and how their parents are with money?

Interestingly, like, no. And yes and no. How I would answer that properly is I found a lot of the rhetoric that came out of their mouth to be reflective of how parents would talk about money, but their own relationship to it in the sense of like, if they're a natural saver or a natural enjoyer of money, I think it's like who you are at your core.

So if you're a person who naturally is like a little bit more scarcity mindset and a little bit more saving, that's like innately who you are. And then if you have parents who are like that, then it's a real vibe. If you're a person who's naturally like saving like this and your parents are not and they spend lots of money, that's gonna stress you out.

And if you're a person who's like, I'm a pleasure seeker, I'm a natural overspender, and then you have parents who are like that too, I mean everyone's having a party, and then then you have parents who are like that too. I mean, everyone's having a party, and then if you have parents who are afraid of that, that's also a place for conflict. So I do find that we sort of are who we are, and then we are shifted and shaped by our parents

and the rhetoric at home, but you really need to understand what kind of a spender and saver is your kid, naturally. And you see this. If you have kids too, I have two kids. They're very different. One of them takes their birthday money and secures it, and nothing is worth spending it on.

And the other one is five Pokemon deep. And it's like, what? I got money? And I'm like, that's the one. We've got the same kids. That's right. And it's like, what? I got money? And I'm like, that's the one. We've got the same kids. That's right. Because there seems to be a lot of emotions tied around money.

Yeah. With the teens that you spoke to, from shame, disappointment, excitement, joy to fear, money seems to be wrapped around emotions. Why is that? I think the same reason as all the adults I work with in my business, money is how we afford the life we want. And so if you feel like you're not good at it, you are basically saying, I'm not good at life.

And if you have somebody saying how you're dealing with this resource is stupid or silly or bad, then you're like, oh, I must be like a person who makes bad choices. And so I don't think we mean to do these things as parents. We're really trying to help and protect. We're like, that's ridiculous. You don't need $80 on that primer. You're 14. But again, keeping in mind, we would never say that to a friend.

We would never say that to another adult. And I understand that they're kids, but it's like trying to find that balance between letting kids enjoy the money on the silly things that they want and then also just finding opportunities to practice. Because I do think that even at a young age, they know how important money is. It's not that they don't want to learn about it. They're worried it's going to be boring, for sure, but they know it's important.

They fully know it's important. And I think that that's where all the emotions coming from. We were talking earlier about the things that our kids have to contend with that we didn't have to, including social media. You mentioned there's social media, financial influencers, but there's also a gateway for other kids to see how their friends might be living. Talking about social media and spending habits, how do you approach that in the book?

This is so hard. I feel very lucky I didn't have to contend with this as a teenager. It sounds terrible and really hard. So I have so much empathy and compassion for what they're going through, because how can you? The capacity for want is endless, because you're being marketed to in a way that like,

you know, when I was younger, I would open a magazine and I was like, well, I really want that lipstick or I really want those shoes. And then I would close the magazine and I would walk away from it. It wouldn't follow me into the next room. And then I wouldn't have, as you say, access to see just how many of my peers, not friends,

peers or people that like social media tricks us into thinking the people we follow are our peers when truly like they could be five schools over like not in the same high school not even once at a volleyball tournament and now they're on your now you know now you know what's up now you know what they're up to in their life maybe what you're missing that's right and you and it's just unprecedented so now you can see so many more people what they have and what you don't so it makes that feeling of broke higher, or like, I don't have enough. The want is higher.

And then as soon as they're 18 with those, with a credit card, it's like the capacity to just buy, buy, buy is so fast. And it's really tough. And it is hard for adults. I'm sure anyone listening to this program is like, I struggle with that. I'm like, can you imagine with a teenage brain trying to fit in, like, just brutal. So I feel for these kids in a huge way. That's why, again, I wanted to write this

to be like a fun way to practice it because they have to contend with stuff that we just didn't have to contend with. And then if you do that, then you end up in debt. I grew up thinking debt is a bad thing. Is it? Great question. Some. So I have no

problem with mortgages. They're a necessary evil. If you want to buy a house, I don't know many people who can just walk up and buy cash. So that kind of debt, okay. If we're getting car loan, also okay. Student debt I think is really important. I tackle that in the book in a big way. One of the characters in the book is terrified of going into student debt almost to the point where like, you know, sort of punishing financial habits, but maybe I won't go to school. There's a real fear of it.

And I think that's part of the rhetoric. But I always am saying like, if you, within reason, you know, going to school is like a mortgage on your brain a little bit, but your future cash flow is your greatest asset. And I don't think that teens, the teens I talked to had never thought about that. About like what I'll earn in the future is actually my greatest asset. And so that, this sort of like spending

that I'm doing here to earn that. And so when you add up somebody's lifetime income and say it's millions of dollars, even if you have a mediocre salary and millions over 40 years, that was very exciting for them. Like oh, well then that makes this like $20,000 student loan feel way less scary.

Like, you know what I mean? Oh, okay, well that does make sense instead of it being this terrifying thing. Credit card debt, consumer debt, I do think, I'm seeing a lot of younger people like in their 20s now getting instantly into consumer debt, and that's because the cost of living is high and I also think technology has allowed it. And so that's also what this book is trying to get in there just before that and help

them practice so that it doesn't continue to happen. The other thing that I mentioned too is that gambling, we see gambling commercials on television, on social media. You mentioned that more young people have access to stock markets, investing. What advice would you give to parents and kids when it comes to these situations? So differentiating gambling and investing, however, obviously as an adult we all know this, but I think that there is a blurred line for some of the young people because the investing that I was talking about, a lot of the conversations were not about like

a well diversified low fee portfolio for the long run. It was like, what stocks should I buy? Like what penny stocks should I buy? Or like do I YOLO on this, which means putting all your life savings on one stock and hoping to make it big over 30, like this kind of thing, which is not like an investment strategy. So that's what I just want to be specific about that. And sports betting online is happening.

It's absolutely happening. There's older siblings, they're doing it while they're watching games downstairs in the basement. 100% is happening. And so for parents, they might know. And that's okay too. I would say there's always been gambling. There's gambling even when I was younger,

but like you had to go to the pro line thing. And like what worries me about this is the ease There's always been gambling, there's gambling even when I was younger, but you had to go to the Proline thing. What worries me about this is the ease at which it happens in an adrenaline-fueled, peer pressure way. Walking to Proline with an older sibling and filling out a thing and waiting was just not the same, like, do it, do it, do it, do it, go, go, go, that it can be today. It's just that technology piece that is really taking a lot of the normal financial lessons that we had to have and just upping the stakes and making it really challenging.

So I'd say for parents, when it comes to like the gambling piece, just like make sure that you're having conversations with your kids about it. Again, abstinence isn't always the way. It's more about teaching. It's in their life. It's in their world. Teach them how to deal with it. I just want to sneak in one more question, give you 20 seconds, because I think it's

important to say this. You write in the book that it's important for us to have a positive relationship with money. Yes. What did you mean by that? That's the whole point of this book, because I see how life plays out for people on the front lines of financial planning every day. And if you have a bad relationship with money, you believe you're not good at it, you're

not great at it, I don't like math, I don't do well at math, or I'm not good with money, I'm just one of those people who's gonna be in debt, you give up. And so much of my job is helping people stay hopeful and motivated, and then it's so much easier. If you're confident when you talk about money, you believe that there's a point in doing it, and you know how to work it,

like you've got the skills that you need, and that's gonna take you so far in life, no matter what life throws at you. Shannon, thank you so much. Your fourth book, amazing. Thank you. We appreciate you making the time to speak to us. Thanks for having me.

Thank you.