The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - The Collapse of Yugoslavia and the End of Peacekeeeping?

Episode Date: November 8, 2024

After the Second World War Yugoslavia and its six republics were unified under the communist rule of Josip Broz Tito. But by the early 1990s it all came undone. More than 100,000 people were killed in the Yugoslav wars for independence, many through deliberate campaigns of ethnic cleansing. What happened? Why did Serbs, Bosnian Muslims, and Croats descend into civil war? And what role exactly did UN peacekeepers have to play during an on-going war? Episode four of "Forgotten War" explores the history of the Yugoslav wars for independence along with guest Sandra Perron. She was Canada's first female infantry officer and deployed to both Bosnia and Croatia. Perron explains the difficulty of being a peacekeeper "when there is no peace to keep," the ethnic tensions that exploded throughout the region, and the personal battle she had within a military that wasn't ready to accept women in combat roles. This video was made in partnership with Canada Company. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

They would use us as a shield, knowing that the other belligerent forces would not fire back, or sometimes they would, and we'd be collateral damage. This is Sandra Perra. She was Canada's first female infantry officer. I had asked many times, can I go infantry? Can I go airborne? And of course it had been denied, because women were not in combat then.

In 1989, following a Canadian Human Rights Tribunal ruling, the Canadian forces permitted women in combat. And as soon as they opened up, I knew that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be in combat arms. I wanted to lead troops. I wanted to be in the front lines. It was my dream.

Of course, they deployed a lot of actions that they felt would ostracize me and make sure that I wouldn't pass. Little things, seemingly, but as they accumulated, they became a mountain of rejection and harassment. In 1992, Perra was on a training mission that would later make headlines across Canada. The idea was for me to be caught prisoner. A bag was put over my head. I was tied to a tree for many hours. At some points I was beat up. They wanted to see what I was made of.

They wanted to challenge their own assumptions about women in combat. Are they going to cry? Are they going to break down? Are they going to scream? And I did none of those things. It was in the middle of winter. Her shoes were taken off. Perra was interrogated for hours. And then I was released. I was so-called executed, mock execution, and I was released. The idea behind that was to test me. And I welcomed it at the time. It's like, let me show you what I'm made of.

Let me show you how tough I am and what I can handle. Perron would pass infantry school at the top of her class. Her first deployment was in the former Yugoslavia, in Bosnia-Herzegovina. The war broke out in early 1992. It was a, what I've always called a thug war, led by thugs. After the Second World War, Yugoslavia and its six republics were unified

under the communist rule of Josip Braz Tito. But by the early 1990s, a groundswell of nationalism and ethnic tensions erupted. First, Slovenia, and then Croatia declared independence. Then Bosnia and Herzegovina, where Serbs, Bosnian Muslims, and Croats descended into civil war. The UN mission was to try to keep the peace among them.

Our mandate to keep peace when peace did not exist was very challenging. What peace is there to keep when they're firing each other and we're stuck in the middle with big white vehicles that have basically targets on them. UN troops were also limited by the rules of engagement. They could fire only if they were directly fired upon.

When you get into an observation post or a position where they're aiming an RPG at you and you have to wait till we have effective fire to fire back, I mean, there won't be anything left to fire back if that thing goes off. During her deployment, Perrault shared a tent with eight other male officers. So you have to remember that this was the first time a combat arms woman was deployed with troops. So the guys in the tent were

were very harsh, they were very open about their their feelings towards having a woman in the tent and they expressed it quite regularly. I didn't want to be in an operation cell in a safe command post leading just discussions about having patrols. I wanted to lead the patrol. Parra and her team received an urgent call about an abandoned hospital for children with disabilities. I begged my commanding officer to be on the next protection force to go into the hospital. We got to the hospital and when I saw first of all the state of the children, it just baffled me that these kids had been left to their own accord for so many days and survived.

The kids were in just desperate need of just water and food and caring and change of diapers. I immediately felt that need to take them in my arms and give them a little bit of love knowing that they had not received anything like that. But I also had this feeling like I'm the first woman in infantry. Can I afford to be a woman and have that mothering side to me? What are soldiers going to think? They want a combat arms officer. And eventually I just gave in. I gave into that natural instinct to just to hold those little babies in my arms and just just give them a little bit of affection. They were so desperate to have it and they just

they would just put their arms around my neck and not let go and I'd have to try and peel them away and they'd hold on and they were just so neglected. There were many instances during my tours, both of them, that I felt like, this is why I wanted to do this career, this is why I wanted to lead troops. That one, I mean, I was proud to be in that hospital, but I was even prouder to have been able to dispatch troops that would find it in their hearts to protect these kids.

While back home, Perra attended a lecture and sat beside a man she recognized. At the end of the lecture, he stood up. Just gives a very eloquent and articulate speech on why women should not be in combat. After serving six months with me, as his boss, immediately felt disappointment that there was still this idea that women couldn't be in combat arms when I had kinda proven myself. And you know, quite frankly, at that point I even asked myself,

do women have their place in combat arms if we can't even get along with our peers, how are we going to command troops? Because by this point I had not commanded troops. I had commanded kind of other officers. I had managed other officers. So I didn't know. In 1995, Perron was redeployed to the former Yugoslavia, this time to Croatia. She was now an anti-tank platoon commander. She

commanded 42 men. In 1995, so the Serbs had taken quite a bit of the territory. The war was three years old. A lot of damage had been done on all sides of the belligerent forces. There were leaders that had done some atrocities. In 1991, after Croatia declared independence, Serbs in the country rebelled. Along with Serbian troops, they launched attacks on Croatian cities and villages, and by the end of the year,

controlled nearly a third of Croatian territory. So we were, I guess, well trained by that time to know what we were getting ourselves into with regards to anti-tank mines and observation posts and also the lack of respect towards the United Nations and the mission. Perra and her men were part of the UN's Operation Mandarin, aimed at monitoring the ceasefire of March 29, 1994.

They patrolled the demilitarized zones with powerful cargo on board. We had the most powerful weapons in all of former Yugoslavia, tow missiles. Perra and her second-in-command made a deal. They would never go on the same patrol in the event they hit a landmine or were attacked. The vehicle is made to have about 10 to 12 tons of equipment. We had 14 tons. And because of that weight, we could not have the armor that normal vehicles could have to protect them.

And so we were like naked out there. On August 4th, Croatian forces launched a major offensive against the Serbs. At the time, it was the largest European land battle since World War II. Some fleeing Serbs found refuge at the UN headquarters. So my platoon eventually got the task to protect the headquarters.

The first thing we had to do is put a little order in the chaos in the camp. There were a lot of kids, there was 126 kids that needed attention, they needed to play, they'd been through traumatizing circumstances. They wanted to just be kids. We had very few toys and crafts for them, but one of the things that we did have were glow sticks

that we'd use to mark trails in the dark. I went and grabbed a whole bunch and some of my soldiers distributed them to the kids, and as soon as we broke them and they would glow, the kids were terrified of holding them, thinking that they're gonna get burned, but when they did, they were just in awe and the kids were terrified of holding them, thinking that they're going to get burned. But when they did, they were just in awe of these glow sticks,

and they would throw them up in the air like they were fireworks. And then eventually the kids just got so tired, and they would go to bed holding their glow stick in the camp with smiles on their face. Afterwards, Perron was called into the office of the man in charge of the entire contingent of UN troops in that region, Major General Alain Forin. And all he could see were glow sticks, like just being thrown around because it was dark.

He says, what the hell is going on in the camp? And I said, we gave kids the glow sticks, thinking I was going to be in trouble with this general. And he just, he just with so much compassion and so much caring and so much leadership said, good job. Good on you to have that idea. And so I walked out of there just glowing. Out of all the moments in my career in the infantry, that was probably that moment

that I knew I had my rightful place in combat arms. Not just because of the glow sticks, but because I had my rightful place in combat arms. Not just because of the glow sticks, but because I had been around and it started raining shortly after that. It was pouring rain. I was bringing coffee to my soldiers, having chats with them, and they were telling me about what they missed back home

and seeing those kids just happy for a short moment after the traumatizing events that they had been through, it just felt right. It just felt like I'm okay here. This is where I am at my best. I felt like this is where I'm supposed to be. I really, I loved my guys. I loved working with them every day. I loved commanding and trying to be a good leader for them. The Croatian offensive in the summer of 1995

effectively ended the Croatian offensive in the summer of 1995 effectively ended the Croatian War. And in December of that year, following a US-led NATO bombing campaign in Bosnia, the Dayton Accords were signed, ending the Bosnian War. Today, the former Yugoslavia is home to seven countries. An estimated 130,000 people were killed in the Yugoslav Wars for Independence, many through deliberate campaigns of ethnic cleansing. 40,000 Canadian Forces personnel have served in the region. 23 were killed. After Peron returned home from Croatia, she soon realized her positive experience with her platoon was the exception to the rule.

She decided to leave the military. For my own dignity, for my own mental health, I had to leave. I don't want to spend another day defending my right to defend my country. I want to defend my country. I want to defend my country. I want to defend my country. I want to serve my country. I had no more tolerance, no more patience for that because I knew. That same year, the prisoner incident made national headlines. You know, at the time, I honestly, I didn't find anything wrong with it.

I just thought they're just testing me. It was only later when I realized my feet had been frozen, I still have problems to this day with my feet, that I understood the reasons behind it and the consequences and why it should have never happened that way. I had debunked all their myths about women. I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that women had their place in the infantry and all combat arms. Para now runs the Pepper Pod, a nonprofit all-women's veterans center. In the military, especially in combat arms, pepper potting is a military maneuver that

aims to protect your buddy while you're moving towards the enemy. That's what we do here. We protect each other through the challenges of our life. Our mission is to give women a network of strong women to help them face the challenges that they have, particularly transition out of the military into civilian life. Despite her experience, Perrault still has faith in the Canadian Armed Forces.

I believe that they want to do the right things. Do they always know what that right thing is? I don't think so. We've been very blessed here. We had the Chief of Defence Staff, Wayne Eyre, General Eyre, with the top 20 generals come to the Pepper Pod, sit around this living room, and hear the themes that we hear over and over again from the 300 women that have been through our program. It's the themes about women's experiences and women's bodies and the equipment that's not designed for women's bodies and pregnancy and menopause. And we talk about rape and we talk about hard stuff.

If they know, I think they can do better. This video was made in partnership with Canada Company.