The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - The Story Behind Orange Shirt Day

Episode Date: October 1, 2024

Residential school survivor, Phyllis Webstad is the founder of Orange Shirt Day and author of a new children's book: "Today is Orange Shirt Day." She joins Steve Paikin to explain how she turned that painful legacy into a powerful tool for Reconciliation.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

September 30th, known as Orange Shirt Day, is meant to recognize the painful legacy of Canada's residential school system. Phyllis Webstad, the founder of Orange Shirt Day and author of a new children's book called Today is Orange Shirt Day, she joins us now to explain how she turned that painful legacy into a powerful tool for reconciliation. And I want to thank you for coming all the way from British Columbia to be with us here tonight. Thank you so much. Yes, thank you for having me. I would like you to take us back a long time, more than 50

years. You're, I guess, a child of five or six years old. And your grandmother brought you a shiny new orange shirt. What's the story there? Yeah. I'm third generation Indian residential school survivor. So what that means is Granny was the first generation. She went from 1925 to 1935.

All of her 10 children went as well. It was lost. She didn't have a choice in that, including my mother from 1954 to 1964. And Granny's eldest grandchild also went. I'm Granny's second eldest. So when I turned six she did what she had always done. She got me ready. We went to town with my cousin and I. And I don't remember what my cousin bought but I chose a shiny orange shirt. It was the early 70s, 1973. The crazy hippie psychedelic wild colors and I chose a shiny orange shirt that had a collar and three buttonholes with the

shoelace string in front and and it bright and exciting, just like how I felt to be going to school for the first time. I'd just turned six in July, and this would have been end of August, beginning of September. When I got to the mission, as we call it, the St. Joseph Mission Indian Residential School about 20 minutes out of Williams Lake or a two hour bus ride from my reserve. It is in British Columbia. Yeah and when I got there my shirt was or my clothes including my shirt was taken and I never did wear it again. I don't have a memory of receiving it back. That incident

obviously stayed with you and was hugely significant over the intervening years. How did you take that and turn that incident into Orange Shirt Day? Well the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, as we know, was winding up. Their final report was in 2015. In early 2013, I was not working. I didn't have a boss of me, so I could do what I wanted. And I heard that the TRC was coming to Williams Lake, and they were having a truth telling for survivors.

And we put up a couple of monuments. But I went to the meetings and we had two media events because we wanted to invite well indigenous obviously, but the ranchers the school district the non-indigenous the RCMP we wanted them to know they were welcome to hear the truths of survivors. And I was chosen as the survivor to attend the media event. And that's how I told my Orange Shirt story for the first time.

We should probably at this moment try to make a distinction between Orange Shirt Day, September 30th, and Truth and Reconciliation Day, September 30th. Two different things, same day. What do we need to know about the distinction? The National Day for Truth and Reconciliation is the implementation of TRC's recommendation number 80. So what that is is to have a day of recognition and remembrance for survivors and their families, their communities, and those that never made it home.

And which is what Orange Shirt Day is about as well. So that's why the government chose September 30th as the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation. It did not replace Orange Shirt Day, it is both. And so I ask everyone when they reference one to please reference the other that yeah it's both and I don't want Orange Shirt Day to be forgotten about and in my eyes it wasn't replaced with the National Day. So two different things, same day, a good day to recognize the importance of both. Your grandmother attended residential school, your mother attended a

residential school, you attended a residential school. Have the three generations or did the three generations ever have a chance to sit down together and compare notes? I have a book out called Beyond the Orange Shirt or Beyond the Orange Shirt Story and it's the sixth generational family story and all of my books been inspired by elementary and high school so this is geared towards high school students and my aunt also has a book that raised me I lived with my grandmother until I was 10 and my mother was so traumatized by her 10-year experience that she could not look after me now so I lived with

my aunt my aunt has a book of the Kamloops Indian Residential School. She's editor of that, Agnes Jack. It's called Behind Closed Doors. And her, myself, and my grandmother, because she was writing this book, were having conversation about residential school. But otherwise we don otherwise, it's not something we talk about at the Thanksgiving table or the Christmas table. No, a difficult conversation to be sure. Can I show some of the book here? Sure. OK, because Today is Orange Shirt Day is your book.

And I think, I mean, first of all, it's a beautiful book. It is tactile. It has a simple but clear message. Let's just show this here. That's your grandmother. Yes. That is the grandmother of whom we were just speaking. Okay, Sheldon, if you want, come out to a wide shot here because I'm going to find something else here.

Who's this guy in the back of the book? That's my eight-year-old grandson, Adam. All right, has grandma had a chance to talk with grandchildren about her experiences? Yes, they've been learning about it in school. And we have a cultural fishing camp on the river. We didn't this year on the Fraser River. But we look forward to that.

And that's the time for storytelling and to be talking about it. Plus, my other members of my family also talk a bit about their stories. But the inspiration for that picture was my grandson, Adam, last year. He said, right, Grandma, every child matters, including me. And there you go. That's the including me.

Then he's pointing to himself with a thumb. There we go. It's always hard to know at what age you can begin to discuss with children tragic things. You don't want to do it too young out of fear of traumatizing them, but you don't want to leave it too late either. This book, Today's Orange Shirt Day, is aimed, you tell us, at those who are three years old and younger. Why do you think that's the age at which it's okay the vocabulary and becoming familiar, I guess, with the image, maybe the orange shirt. And residential school history is not only Indigenous history, it's Canadian history.

And yeah, so I feel it's an appropriate age to just start that conversation. And my book, The Orange Shirt Story, is more for kindergarten age and there's curriculum that goes with that as well. And at that age, all they understand is a wrong was done, my shirt was taken, and they can't imagine losing a piece of clothing that was bought for them for school and not somebody taking it away. That's just not right and from there the awareness increases. Phyllis I'm wondering if part of your target audience here isn't just the three-year-olds who are having this

book read to them but the parents who are reading the book to their three-year-olds who are having this book read to them, but the parents who are reading the book to their three-year-olds. What do you think? Yes, I believe children are teaching their parents most definitely. I find that when I'm at the airport, for instance, it's the school-age children and the teachers that recognize me. If a person doesn't recognize me, it usually means they're a bit younger and they don't have children. When you are talking to people this young

about subjects that are this problematic, what are the important things you have to take into account in having that conversation? Yeah, my presentations, they're so different from the adult who gets like the full meal deal kind of thing and the younger ones, it's a lot about entertaining them. One of the questions I ask is, who's had a sleepover? You know, aren't sleepovers fun? And so then I tell them, I'm going to tell you a story about when I had a sleepover for 300 sleeps. And some of them, they're, wow, you know, they can't. And just

other questions like that to engage them like who's five who's six because that was the age of my cousin and I five and six year old should not be comforting each other but that was the case we didn't have adults to console us and that's where Every Child Matters comes from is yeah, we didn't, we could be sick, tired, lonely, hungry, and we weren't tended to. Let's just understand this as well from your family's point of view. Your grandmother, your mother, you, all residential schools.

And also my son. And your son. Yeah, it went for three months at the St. Michael's when it closed in 1996. And where's that? In Saskatchewan. In Saskatchewan. So this kid here, this kid and his, does he have siblings?

Yes, there's five of my grandchildren. And they would be the first generation in your family not to attend residential schools? Yes, and they are the first in five generations To be raised by their mother and their father because of residential school So granny mom me and my son didn't have that in light of all of your efforts to put this on our agenda What what hopes do you have for your grandchildren's lives that clearly was beyond what you could hope for? What hopes do you have for your grandchildren's lives that clearly was beyond what you could hope for? Hmm, yeah, that might get me a bit emotional here, but for them I want them to be able to live in a world, a society that,

and not have these same experiences that I did with racism and the ignorance of our history. And also in our own homes not having this topic talked about and understood and the impact of residential school on our families and on our communities and on this country. So they're communities and on this country. So they're learning this in school as well as home right now and I'm 57. It wasn't talked about in my home. I felt like I was crazy most of the time as a teenager because it's like that elephant in the room. I'm living the effects but it's not talked about and I don't know how it's affecting me. But I just feel crazy. But I didn't have the words for it. And so I just, and I can even notice it now with them being raised by their mother and their father.

Like they, as Murray Sinclair said, they're growing up to be who they were meant to be. We didn't have that opportunity to be who we were meant to be. We, granny was sent away, my mom was sent away and didn't have that parenting or the the language and the culture and so it's a it's a rebuilding and repair job, you know, in so many ways. Let me just ask you finally, Orange Shirt Day the first time was 2013, is that right?

Yes. Okay. How much progress do you think we've made on reconciliation in the intervening years? Yeah, truth comes before reconciliation and the truth is not yet fully told. And in 2026 I plan to make a big deal out of the graduating class across Canada in Williams Lake as well as other places because they are the first to have

residential school or insured day teachings 2013 plus kindergarten and 12, 12 years, so 2013 plus 13. They will be the graduate and the first grad. Yes, and I've noticed it already and one of the big things is just being treated as a human being. That is such a breath of fresh air to be looked at as a human being and a person. And because that wasn't always the case for my grandmother, my mom, they weren't even allowed in non-indigenous restaurants. That's why we like Chinese food so much. The Chinese have the same history and they allowed our people into their restaurants. So that was 11 years ago. Do you think about where we're all going to be in our relationship 11 years from now? I get asked that quite a bit and I couldn't even have thought that it would be what it

is today. So in another 10 years, I look forward to there being more education for our Indigenous people. I look forward to less trauma. And instead of all of the heartache that we live with as Indigenous people on a daily basis. We have a whole generation dying right now from drugs in Canada because you can't heal what you don't talk about and we need to start talking about the truth of what happened. And if I could put a plug in there's a documentary called Sugar

Cane and it's a reserve outside of Williams Lake the Williams Lake First Nation they have a documentary on the residential school that three generations of my family attended it talks about the truth that's not yet fully told and it's it's horrific and yeah. The education continues. I want to thank you for making the trip from British Columbia to visit us here today. I am happy to recommend for those of you who've got kids or grandkids of the age, today is Orange Shirt Day which it is September 30th. Thank you so much Phyllis for visiting us here we're so grateful. Yes thank you for having me.