The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - What Brings the Serbian Science Minister to Ontario?

Episode Date: October 29, 2024

Jelena Begovic is the first-ever Serbian Minister of Science to visit Ontario. She joins Steve Paikin to discuss her interest in our province. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It is not too often that we talk about the Republic of Serbia on this program, but then again it's not too often that Serbian cabinet ministers visit Ontario. But that is happening now. In fact, Jelena Begovic is the first-ever Serbian Minister of Science to visit Ontario. So we thought we'd invite her here to find out why the interest. And Jelena Begovic joins us now here in studio. Dobrevječer. Dobreviećer. Good evening everyone. Kako si. Let's start with your background. Unlike many cabinet ministers, in fact unlike many science ministers, you actually have a

background in science. Yes, you're a molecular biologist. Yes, I've been in science for more than 24 years and research was my first love and still is. I ended up in Genetical Engineering although as I mentioned previous I wanted to be an archaeologist because the research and the process of research was fascinating for me but nevertheless Genetical Engineering turned out to be really the future. You are a former student of the University of British Columbia. So you are not new to Canada, right? Why did you go there? Well, my family moved to Canada.

I moved with my mom and sister during the 90s. And my mom picked up the Vancouver. I think she fell in love with nature and the sea. So she was born in Dubrovnik, so she was quite a talented woman. I picked up the Vancouver. I think she fell in love with nature and the sea. So she was born in Dubrovnik, so she was quite attached to seaside. And we ended up in Vancouver. I studied oceanography at the UBC.

It was quite beautiful experience. Later on I returned to Serbia, went for the molecular genetics, genetical engineering, and then I ended up as a minister of science. Well, that's my next question. Why would you leave that wonderful world of intellectual brilliance and research to go into politics? Well, one thing led to another.

I was working in the lab as a typical researcher, totally in love with my work and with my ideas. Later on I became a group leader, then the deputy director, then the director, so there was more managerial work for me, less science. Nevertheless, I stick to the field of collaboration between academia and industry. That was fascinating me and I wanted to develop a more efficient system in Serbia for this collaboration and after that I was for nine years the director of that Institute I got a chance to change things maybe on a higher level and I already had a lot of ideas What should I do?

So this was a good opportunity for me as a scientist coming from really, from the basic level to the highest level and I knew the system and I knew what should be done in order to really upgrade our scientific and innovation system. And to do that you had to get into politics. Well absolutely. That's where it happens.

In which case, what brings you to us? Well, the idea is somehow to make tighter connection with the startup ecosystem, but also scientific ecosystem of Canada. In Serbia we have quite good science, and we do have collaboration, high level of international collaboration. But I want to make it more formal. I chose several countries that I think can be quite good opportunities for our scientists

but also for our start-up ecosystem to connect with and to upgrade. And we can learn from Canada after a couple of days spent here in Canada. I know that we can learn, we can connect, and we can make a connection for both sides. In fact, you've signed some memorandums of understanding while you've been here. What will those do? No. Not quite? Not quite, but we are preparing.

We are opening this possibility for both scientific collaboration but also for the collaboration of startup ecosystem. I mean, Canada has amazing startup ecosystem. We are much smaller country. Nevertheless, we are, I would say, a country of creation. We perceive ourselves like that. So small market, but we can be a center of creation. And a lot of our startup companies are quite ambitious.

So they see themselves on a global market. Particularly, they see the market of United States as something promising. But I see the Canada as a good first step forward towards North American market. And I see that we share very often same cultural values, similar ecosystems, startup and innovative ecosystem, economical systems, and I think this is a good first landing for our companies.

And we were discussing about this. That's interesting because much of what I hear about our venture capital system is that it is notoriously risk averse and far too dependent on the United States at the expense of the rest of the world. So are you sure you want to do business with us? Well, you know, it's not about me. It's about people who are brave enough to start this endeavor of establishing

the startup company based on some creative or even crazy idea, which always bears some type of risk. And they want to be among the best. So you have to strive for the best, although it is risky, but we don't want to close the doors for them. We really want to open them the global market and let them compete in this arena. I have learned that you are about to assume, you meaning Serbia, the chairmanship of the

Global Partnership on Artificial Intelligence next year. What is the significance of that partnership? Well, actually, we are starting to take technological developments very serious as a country. So one of the technologies, although they are not new, they somehow became a buzzword artificial intelligence, but they're with us for past 20 years. Now they are developing quite fast and really starting to influence everyday life so we have decided to be more active not only internally but on the international level so we became members of GPAI, Global Partnership for Artificial Intelligence,

with let's say 29 most developed countries. And we got the opportunity, and I'm really proud of it, to be co-chairs this year and next year we will chair. So this gives us opportunity really to be a part of, let's say, decision, kind of decision makers, to see how to really provide safe and secure technological development of this artificial intelligence but also to speak about ethical concerns, policy concerns and directions of the development of this quite powerful, I

would say, technology. So this puts Serbia in a center of let's say decision-making. Let me follow up on that because I wonder what your most profound concerns are about what artificial intelligence is doing to our lives? It's kind of complicated question. I'm not an expert in artificial intelligence, although I am following particular application of this technology in agriculture, in science, in medical sciences. So it's a powerful tool. For me, it's a powerful tool.

It can be huge help for our experts, so they may focus on some other activities, including maybe more research. But since I am following what is happening and the concerns of people who created different algorithms for machine learning, there is a kind of a concern that we're not aware of what is really happening in those black boxes of the algorithm process. And what can turn out from that? So there is a concern by the experts I am following, but I cannot make a final decision whether this is going to be good or not. But I do see this as a huge potential and a tool, particularly in the area where we are really producing huge amounts of data

and we cannot process them by our natural brains. So we do need artificial brains and I see artificial intelligence potential in that field. Every technology can be used or misused, unfortunately. So it's up to us. Unfortunately, when we speak about the new technologies, usually we are always lagging behind with ethics and with policies and with legal framework. So this is happening also with AI. But I think that the global partnership for AI, for instance, and similar organizations should speak about this,

should follow faster the technology. Let's talk a little bit about Serbia's place in the world today. And I'm going to be a bit of an old fogey here, because I well remember when I was seven years old, Canada hosted Expo 67. And it was a big deal. As many people in the country as could went to it, and it was fabulous.

In a few years, Serbia is going to host the world at the World's Fair. What does that say about Serbia's place in the world today? Well, I see Serbia today and in the future as a country of good science, innovation and creativity. So I'm really trying to present some amazing things that are happening in Serbia, different projects including Expo 2027, so we will be hosts of Expo in 2027 and I hope really that we will be able to bring the whole world in Serbia. This will be good for Serbia but also it will be good for the whole region.

We didn't have Expo in Balkans. This is the first Expo after 30 years in southeastern Europe. So it's a good chance that the world sees this part of the world with maybe different eyes. The theme is play for humanity, play as a concept, not like when you are children only as a child, but play as a source of creativity, whether it's in arts, whether it's in science, whether it's in innovation. And sports and music for all, I think we all can speak. Every single country in the world can speak and give something when it comes to music and sport.

We all love it. There are no borders when it comes to sports and music, but one of the major pillars will be also innovations. So we are preparing our scientific community, startup community, innovative community to really present Serbia as a place of innovation and creativity. So great honor and I would say great success

because the race was really extremely competitive. We had- Who did you beat? Well, United States. You beat Minnesota, right? They were gonna host it. Yes, and Spain and Thailand and Argentina. So it was really tough, but we made it.

We were really focused. A huge amount of energies were given for this task. And we succeeded at the end. I was telling you at the beginning of our conversation that the last time I was in Serbia was 30 years plus ago and obviously it was to do a documentary on the war that was consuming that part of Europe in shocking fashion. I wonder if you, and I guess I have to say as well, for a lot of people that will be their most, that's what comes to mind first

when they think about the Balkans. Can you tell us how you think Serbia today is different from the Serbia we heard so much about 30 years ago? Well, first of all, you have to come to Serbia and to see for yourself, right? After 30 years, it would be great. It's time.

For you to come. I mean, every country during its history, most of the countries had at certain momentum some type of war. Nevertheless we all evolve, we all develop. Nowadays the number of cranes in Belgrade but also in other parts of the Serbia is amazing. That's a good sign that we are building. We're building something new. We're building quite modern Serbia. Innovations and creativity is in central place now for us and we do see the future where young, innovative,

smart people have the central place in the development, not only economy, but in the development not only economy but also the development of our society. Expo 2027 will be a great opportunity. So I'm inviting everyone to visit Serbia, a country of beautiful nature, amazing people, good food, but also a place of creative and smart people. It was obviously the case 30 years ago that Serbs and Croats and Bosnians and etc. etc. could not get along anymore and as a result they had a civil war.

What about today? Are these different people from different countries able to get along better and solve problems in a more regional way? Well, things are evolving in a better manner, I have to say. It's good to come during the celebration of New So it's a sign of our politics, it's a sign of our vision for the whole region. So we have to collaborate from the scientific point of view. We are now building, we have a big project, scientific project that we see as a center of gravity of the region, but also broader region.

So we do see ourselves as leaders in the region when it comes to science, when it comes to technology, when it comes to economical development, and the point of gravity of everyone. I asked the question because I do remember, again, 30 years ago, talking to people in Belgrade and around Serbia, and they were still talking to me about the events of 1389 and a battle lost to the Ottoman Turks 600 years ago, and the humiliation they still felt because of it. I mean, that doesn't go away 30 years later, right?

That is still there. How do you deal with that? Well, actually, I mean, every country and every nation has its own history and has certain points that are quite important, even after 500 years, for some after 1,000 or 2,000 years. And it keeps going through the family, through the culture. And it's a part of cultural heritage, I would say.

People are now, of course, living in 21st century. We are all becoming more oriented towards the future because future is coming. The past is something behind us. So we are really trying very hard to make perception of ourselves in next five years, in ten years. That is my personal philosophy. Also, let's build a better future. Well let's talk about that.

If you and I were to sit down here five years from now and discuss how different the Serbian-Canadian relationship is, how would it look different five years from now if you are successful? Well, I hope that we will have much stronger ties, not only in science, but my now primarily focus is the startup ecosystem. So I hope to see some Canadian companies coming to Serbia because we're open for a market of almost three billion people, so this is a good opportunity,

but also for our startup ecosystem to come through Canada, maybe to a larger market. And I can tell that it can work. You got into politics, you told us earlier, because you felt you needed to be at the tables where decisions were being made. Even though you're not a professional politician, right, you are a scientist who is sort of on loan to politics. What have you found about what's possible in Serbian politics to achieve versus what

you can't do because you're not a pro? I don't know one one has to be a politician to make a good decision, to have a good vision. So I ended up in politics with quite clear ideas what do I want to accomplish and how do I see the potential of science for the benefit of the citizens, for the benefit of the whole country. And I think more scientists should be involved in politics. It's a completely different world compared to your laboratory, where you are by yourself and your idea. Now you have to fight for your ideas. But the possibility that you can change things, that you can leave something for the next generation,

generations really gives you the strength to survive in politics. And I think it's everywhere more or less the same. I do think that we need more experts, more knowledgeable people getting involved in politics. I do know that people are reluctant to do that. It's not easy. Well, for sure, and I'll give you the example of here in Canada.

I mean, your experience in politics so far has been pretty good? Absolutely, I would do it again. Okay, well, we had a minister of science in the current liberal government who was a Nobel Prize winner, Kirsty Duncan, and she got dropped from cabinet. She's got a book out right now and I guess I should call her up and try and get her on this program, but I think she would tell you that her experience with politics was very mixed,

and that would be putting it mildly. Do you worry about what politics is going to do to you and your ability to get things done? Well, first of all, I'm not such a young person, so I do have a very strong... You're not such an old person either. But I have a very long career behind me, so I know what I want and what I don't want in my life. I do have a strong, really strong support from the rest of the government on some quite important projects, like building up the innovation system, like building up the Bio4 campus, the first campus of that type in a broader region,

which I see as an amazing opportunity for our development, but also an opportunity for us to connect with the rest of the world. So we become kind of a center for biotech and artificial intelligence, putting together academia, private sector, startup ecosystem on a small, dense place. So they have to collaborate together and work together. And this gives me the strength

to partially act as a politician. So I'm trying to keep the balance. I hope it's possible to keep the balance because I won't be in politics forever. This is just a part and a stage in my career development, but I do want to contribute. And I think I have the obligation, if I have the idea and the strength, really to try to change. Whether I will succeed or not, we'll see in the future.

But I would regret if I didn't try. Let me talk to you as the scientist then, as opposed to the politician. We know during the COVID epidemic that as much as you love science and as much as you trust science's ability to do good for humanity, there are many people in the world today who have a lot less trust in science because of their experience with COVID. How concerned are you about that? Well, actually, my personal experience that science did amazing thing during COVID. We proved that the vaccine could be developed in like six to eight months instead of like 20 years.

So it can be done. So if we got stuck in a similar situation, I have much more confidence that we do have tools and arms to fight the epidemic, new epidemic event. In our country, scientists were involved. They were volunteers working on building the testing labs, testing people for COVID, bringing news, information, valid information, so people are not being confused what is happening. So in Serbia people still trust scientists and I think on a global level also scientists were quite involved in helping countries and helping citizens to

Get over this this crisis. So I wouldn't say that people are not believing science I think most of the people still do trust science Minister as much as we've at least I should say as much as we've, or at least I should say, as much as I've enjoyed this conversation, we have to bring it to a close, but not before I ask one last question. Given your ability to speak wonderful English and French,

and given the time you have spent in Canada at University of British Columbia, I want to ask you who loves Canada more, you or Novak Djokovic who has won four Canadian Open tennis titles? That's a tricky question. I have to admit, but I still have family who lives in Canada, so I am attached emotionally, definitely to Canada. But also Djokovic plays the best tennis in the world.

So I'm really happy to be here again. And I hope that I will come back to Canada soon and that we will sign MOUs and that we will connect our two countries more strongly in the field of science and entrepreneurship. Have you ever played tennis against Djokovic? Oh no, I wouldn't dare. I don't think so, but I played tennis most of my life.

Could you beat him? I don't think that there is a single person still that can really beat him a couple of times in a row. He's pretty good. Oh, he's amazing. That is the Republic of Serbia's Minister of Science, Jelena Begovic, who has been our guest here. And we want to say, if I can remember how to say this,

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.