The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - What Do Ontario's FOI Changes Mean for Transparency?

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

Ontario's 2026 budget and a proposed overhaul of freedom-of-information laws have dominated headlines, but critics warn some of the most significant changes are escaping scrutiny. As the Ford government moves to rewrite access-to-information rules and quietly advance key budget measures, transparency advocates and political observers ask what is being overlooked, and why it matters. We're joined by The Trillium's Jessica Smith Cross, Transparency International Canada's Salvator Cusimano, and TVO Today columnist and #onpoli co-host John Michael McGrath.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When TVO first went on air in 1970, the idea that public television could have a positive impact on learning was visionary. From beloved kid shows that sparked the joy of learning, pioneering must-see favorites exploring society and culture and series that made navigating life on Ontario a little easier, TVO's commitment to lifelong learning has stood the test of time. Renew your support now and help preserve this legacy. Visit TVO.comme slash 2026 renewal to make your donation today. Hi, I'm Nam Kiwanuka, host and producer of mistreated, a podcast on women's health. There just hasn't been a lot of money put into researching women's health issues. If women are in pain, it's hysteria, it's an emotional issue.

And this is what we see consistently. Women's health is not taken seriously. How did we get here? Find us wherever you get your podcasts, and be sure to check out the video version of the show on the TVO Today YouTube channel. Hope to see you then. Late last week, the Ontario government spelled it out in the 2026 budget. It wants to change how freedom of information laws work in this province. Now, under the proposed new rules, the Premier, cabinet ministers, and parliamentary assistance would be exempt. The Premier says it's all about modernizing the system and about making sure information doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

We've got to protect ourselves against the communist Chinese that are infiltrating our country. Critics, however, say this will reduce government accountability. Ontario's own information and privacy commissioner says the changes would diminish the public's right to information and raise serious concerns about the future of Ontarians' rights to transparency, privacy, and independent oversight. And look, most people don't support the new approach. According to Abacus' data, 60% of Ontarians oppose it. So we're going to dig into what the changes would look like and what the consequences could be.

Now, changes to freedom of information laws weren't the only thing mentioned in last week's budget. We're going to highlight some of the angles you might have missed that didn't make the headlines. Welcome to the rundown. The Ontario government's proposed revamp of freedom of information laws has critics ringing alarm bells. Jessica Smith Cross is editor-in-chief of the Trillium, and Salvador Kusimano is the Executive Director of Transparency International Canada. It's great to have you both here. Salvatore, great to have you back. Thank you.

All right, Jessica, I'm going to ask you to set the table for us. What is the government proposing to change in the freedom of information and protection of privacy act also known as FIPA? Right now, members of the public, journalists, activists, opposition parties can request information from the government request, documents from the government. You can get them from civil servants. You can also get them from minister's offices. Now, there's like a whole bunch of exclusions of types of records that you cannot get. stuff like this would disclose personal information about somebody. This would impair national security or business interests.

But right now you can ask for documents you get some of them back. What they're going to do moving forward is that documents that are in minister's offices, so like the political stuff, the ministers, their staff, their parliamentary assistance, the premier and his staff, all that is going to be off limits to the public. All right. One of the questions that a lot of people are asking is, why now? Why is the government making these changes? Can you give us some insight? Well, the government themselves has given us some pretty good insight.

They're not just making this change going forward, thinking this is the way things should be. We're crawling back. Yeah, they're going back. They're making it retroactive. So all of the requests at battles for records that are going on right now between journalists and this government, between the opposition party, and the governments are basically going to get trampled on. And there are some very high-profile ones and some that are less high-profile that are all aimed at information that the government we're pretty sure doesn't want out there.

There's stuff about the Greenbelt scandal. There's stuff about the Skills Development Fund issue you may have read about. And there's a request for the Premier's phone records that seems to have personally been offside with him that he doesn't want them disclosed. All right. Salvatore, before I get your reaction, I should mention, we did invite the Minister of Public and Business Service Delivery and Procurement. Stephen Crawford to join our program. His office declined, but did refer to some statements that the Minister and the Premier made.

So I'm just going to read part of their press release. It reads, after nearly 40 years. we are modernizing Ontario's privacy protections and bringing the province's technology practices into the 21st century. It goes on to read, these updates will strengthen cybersecurity, protect cabinet confidentiality, and ensure responsible modern governance. Salvatore, your thoughts. The word modernization shows up a lot in there. Does that do this? What are your thoughts on the changes? I think the answer to that question is no. If you wanted to modernize the system, we think there are many things that you could do to a

that without introducing the kind of sweeping exceptions that they're proposing. I think the best way that I could describe what we think is that we think there's a right to information in my organization, Transparency International, not just that information should be accessible or free, but that actually as citizens, we have a right to it. The best way to describe it is, and again, if you're talking about modernization, if you were the owner of a company or just a shareholder and you wanted to get certain information from your employees, you know, you're trusting them to run the company on a daily basis. If they were to refuse you access to certain records, saying, well, you know, it's on a private cell phone that I have,

or, you know, there's simply too many emails for us to get that information for you. You'd say, well, you need to come up with a system that works for this day and age. And as the owner or shareholder, I've erect that information. In our democracy, we're the owners, we're the shareholders. And it's our government that serves us. And so we think that if you're going to modernize, Yeah, I get with the times, but there are many things that could be done without having to resort to what Jessica's mentioned. All right. Ontario's 25th Premier, Kathleen Wynn, recently wrote an opet for your website about FOI changes, freedom of information changes. Can you give us an idea of the gist of what she had to say? Yeah, it was really interesting to me. I had done a podcast with her, and she mentioned sort of in passing that she had had some very uncomfortable FOI request when she was in the Premier.

So she was in the Premier for the tail end of the gas plant scandal. It was a sub-subbery by-election and opposition party FOI request who played a big part in these. And despite having to go through those things as the Premier, she sort of said, this is the price you pay for power and it's worth it. And what these changes will do will, you know, erode our democracy. I thought it was pretty powerful. Did she say, did she have any ideas as to why this government is making those changes? I think she's on board with what everyone who has seen the changes thinks by focusing on that retroactive stomping on the quad requests that are out there, that that is the reason why this is happening. All right.

Now, I should mention we also invited the Information and Privacy Commissioner Patricia Kosim on, but she was unavailable. I did want to read she had written an op-ed in the Globe and Mail. And it reads, in a world of weakening democracies dwindling confidence in government and rampant misinformation, Ontario should be working to strengthen privacy and access to information rules, increase transparency, and uphold the integrity of its public institutions through independent oversight.

Instead, the provincial government is taking us back to the dark ages. Salvatore, are we heading into the dark ages? I would hope not. You know, we're a non-partisan organization, and so I think it's really interesting that we get the example of what happened under a previous provincial administration,

because as you can see, these are principles that transcend who's in government. They're our right. So I would start with that. Now, we have seen attacks on the right to information around the world. Transparency International has 100 chapters around the world. We're just one of them. And my colleagues, when they saw this, said,

you need to push back against any incremental erosion of that right, because after it's gone, it's very hard to get back. You know, this kind of thing, it's like Jessica said, it is a very useful way for citizens to be able to exert an independent check on a government's power, particularly during times in our parliamentary democracy when we have a majority government. You know, that was the case under previous liberal governments, and we can see that keeping these standards up did a very good job at exposing some serious wrongdoing in those previous administration. So we would say this is good for everyone.

Let's keep it strong going forward because you never know who's going to come into power. I don't want to talk too much about the states, but you just need to look south to see what happens when you start chipping away at those foundations. Jessica, I'll get your take on that as well. In this statement, we talk about, you know, weakening democracies around the world. We talk about the states and looking around and sort of the landscape there. But what are your thoughts on her comment? What's Avatar is to say? Yeah, I think the problem when a change like this happens is that once one government does it, it's really, it's much harder for the next one.

whoever comes in, whenever it happens, to go back and put that right back. The parallel I see is with government advertising in Ontario. You know, we had the previous government, the liberal government, weaken those standards where you could spend taxpayer money on, like, partisan government ads. Right. And the next government came in promising, oh, that was terrible that the liberals did that. We're going to return it to the higher standards than never has. And I'm afraid that the same sort of thing is going to happen with this.

changes, that even if one day there's a new government, even though the opposition parties today are saying that this is terrible, that when push comes to shove, they won't do it. All right. I think there is a perception out there, journalists to journalists, that we are the ones making a lot of these FOI requests. Help me understand, is that the case? And who are making these requests? There are all kinds of people making these requests. And for all different kinds of reasons, there are some sort of routine ones that are done in like the business world and for real state reasons and stuff like that, that make up a lot of the numbers. Opposition parties, for the politically sensitive ones that are getting targeted, though,

it does seem to be opposition parties, journalists, and like nonprofit activist groups that are the biggest problem for the government here, the ones that are at that minister's office level they're targeting. I should mention, according to the Information Privacy Commissioner Ontario processed, just over 27,000 provincial FOI requests. Only 4% were from the media. So there you go. I want to raise of hands.

Have we filed FOI requests in our past? How many hands can I? That's fair. You can raise my hands. There we are. Okay. Can you walk us through the process of filing an FOI? Sure, yeah.

Okay, if you're filing it to a provincial ministry, which is what most of mine are, I cover Queen's Park. There's a website with that online form. You fill out what ministry, who you are, You describe the records that you're looking for as best you can. You pay $5 online, and off it goes. That is fairly modern. And so when they talk about modernization, I'm like, okay, that part's good.

After that, we're talking about paper checks and stuff. I have to go buy stamps and envelopes to mail a check to the government of this day and age. They could change that. Anyhow, after that point, you get in touch with a coordinator who works in the ministry. You've asked for the records from. they might clarify the request, what exactly are you looking for, give you a back and forth,

and they'll give you sort of an estimate of the time it will take to get you the records. This could be supposed to be relatively quick, but it rarely is. And if it's complex, it can take a lot longer. They can give you a notice for a time extension. I've had some nearly up to a year with some of our requests.

They also give you a cost. So if getting your records takes a lot of staff time, you're expected to pay for that, and there's like a schedule of fees for that. that. We've had some that are like 20 bucks and some that are thousands of dollars. Wow. Speaking of changes to timelines, right now it's about, is it 30 days and it's moving into what? They are extending the timelines. I think the 30 is going to 45. They're changing the way that business, like weekends are counted. I think it adds up to about 60 plus. It's almost, yeah. They're giving

themselves more time. Got it. Okay. Salvatore, it wasn't too long ago that we had a discussion about transparency international's corruption index where Canada, you know, wasn't doing too well, all time low in 2025. How do freedom information laws protect democracies against corruption? They do it in many ways. And I'll start with one that's really important, which is that they actually allow governments to identify wrongdoing within their own ranks. Sometimes information comes out on the initiative of a citizen or a journalist that actually the government would have been well placed to know. And that we've seen in many cases around the world. Another way is that you are really putting yourself to the test

when you fulfill these freedom of information requests. And what we see around the world is that freedom of information requests, the right to information, when properly implemented, can strengthen trust between citizens and the government because there's often better service delivery from the government to citizens when citizens know how money is being managed. They know better how to access services and the government feels more responsive to citizens. Those are two really important ways that are that are hard to quantify, but that we see worldwide. Jessica, you talked about a few things that are of interest when we talk about FOIs. What government decisions are you personally worried about will no longer be FOIable if these changes are made? Some of them that I have right

now that are going to be affected might be a place to start. So I made an FOI request about the Greenbelt scandal. It was shortly after the Auditor General released her report in 2023. I have been back and forth in an IPC appeal, try to get these records about who met who, for this investment opportunity thing that Auditor General had mentioned. Anyhow, I am in the very end stages of getting an order from the IPC has issued an order to release like 200 records, but what was going on in that scandal. They all have to do with the minister's office, but lobbyists we're having meetings, stuff like that. If this goes through, I won't get that information.

So, like, people do care about the Greenbelt. People cared a lot when that scandal was raging in Ontario politics. Still trying to figure out who was meeting who and what went into it. It's still under police investigation. This does matter. We have other more mundane requests, like, we ask for ministers' calendars, so we know who they've been talking to, so we know what they're up to. Just stuff like that.

Do we know when this, would be put into place. I know that you've got timelines that, you know, you're itching. Will we get these documents before? But do we know when? We don't know exactly. The government hasn't time allocated the bill yet as we record this, that this is in. It's part of an omnibus budget bill.

They've tabled it. They're debating it. They seem to be moving fast. We don't know if it's going to go through the committee stage yet or not. In the past, they have skipped committee. So soon, though, the upshot is soon. Now, it should be, I should mention that the government does say, that 95% of public service records will still remain affioliable.

So there is still a large chunk of information that still would be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Salvatore, the Premier said that the changes will bring Ontario in line with other provinces. So help us understand, and with federal government practices as well. We like to compare ourselves with other provinces. Is this true? Do we stack up against these more sweeping changes?

I think what's not clear, is that other provinces have the type of sweeping exceptions that would be codified if this legislation goes through. It is a bit of a mosaic of laws across the country with some provinces subjecting government entities and ministers to a greater extent of transparency, we could say. I would say that Ontario has a pretty good framework in place. Some provinces have moved back a little bit. We saw some changes, for example, in Alberta last year that looks similar in some ways to what's being proposed here. But it's not at all clear to me that by introducing this sweeping exception on ministers, for example, lengthening the timelines that you're bringing us in line.

I think that's a little bit inaccurate. But again, a lot of it comes down to how the rubber hits the road in practice. And Ontario is not doing better than those other provinces right now in meeting these requests. It's actually doing a little bit worse on some measures. And so to say that is not quite the point either because we want to increase transatlanticism. transparency across the board, again, for those benefits that I mentioned to the government and to citizens. All right, let's talk a little bit about modernization. Salfa, I'll start with you. We talked a little bit about it. Obviously, Jessica says stamps out of here. We don't need those. We're talking, FIFA was put in 1988. So when we talk about modernization, what could that look like under your, under your vision here?

I mean, I think Jessica mentioned some of the fixes that could come to just how the process works, how citizens can engage with it. I think another point of modernization could be, you know, again, a good law stands a test of time. So I don't know how much a legislator wants to get into, for example, what to do with mobile phones, with personal cell phones. But clearly that's an issue across public and private life in our country. We're grappling with it in many, many places. And I think that that's something that could be addressed. But whether that's done in the law, I'm not so sure because the law should stand the test of time. And we think, you know, I don't want to speak for Jessica,

but we think that there's many good things about that law. If the government wants to introduce changes, for example, around mobile phones, let's do it in a consultative way that that really still protects that right in the law. There are a few other changes you could make, I think, you know, regarding the information and privacy commissioner, I think that looking at the independence and really upholding that independence in a day and age where our democracy is subject to mis and disinformation, politicization and polarization, you'd really want to make sure there's still strong protections there, especially these days. But those are just two things, and I don't know that it requires changing the law.

All right, Jessica, you get the last word here. How do you go about your job now if these changes go through? Don't know yet if there will be a legal challenge, but I would be surprised if there isn't. But yeah, how do you go about? We get information in a lot of different ways. FOIs are a big part of it. Some of our FOIs will be killed by this. Some won't.

So some of the job, the work that we do can be like, let's FOI a data set from a ministry about, like, a long-term care home or something or healthcare. That we can still get. That's still important. I don't want people who think FOIs are completely going away. Not being able to get that essential information from ministers' offices about who they've been meeting,

and what they've been saying is going to make our job harder. There's also, there's sources, which is we use them now. We may have to rely on them more in the future when it comes to the more political side of the stories that we do. Jessica, Savvatore, really appreciate it. Great insights. Thank you so much. Thank you, Jade. Ontario's 2026 budget had plenty of headlines,

but there are a number of important stories that didn't make the front page. TVO Today, columnist, and OnPolly Podcast, host John Michael McGrath joins us to break them down. We have some unfinished business because we connected on budget day, but there were some stories that did not necessarily make it past, didn't make it on day one of the headlines. So tell us about ride share guidelines. There's some stuff about Uber and Lyft that we should know about. Yeah, so folks may recall that there used to be a Northlander train that went all the way from Toronto into Ontario's far north. That train was decommissioned.

under the previous liberal government, the Tories have made bringing back a priority from almost the very beginning of their time in government and construction is supposed to be done this year. As part of recommissioning the Northlander train, they are going to introduce standardized rules for ride share programs like Uber, like Lyft, throughout the root of the Northlander. So at the moment, it's municipalities that set the rules for ride sharing in Ontario. this functionally uploads that to the provincial level. And the province wants to sort of standardize these things in the hopes that it will make it easier for people

to get to and from these stations in the north. Because these are, at least in some cases, these are not communities with a robust transit or taxi network. So they're hoping that these ride-sharing services can fill the gap. But in order to make sure that happens, the province is going to step in, rather, and set standardized rules.

that will apply across the catchment area, if you want to put it that way. And there's certainly the implication based on what they're saying in the budget that if these rules are a success, they might actually start using those rules province-wide. That's going to raise some alarm bells in some city councils, but we'll see how that goes. Well, let's talk about that expansion. Would they like to expand on this pilot? Like right now, when we talk about sort of ride share,

we can look at Innesville, for an example, in 2017. They had partnered with the city to, with Uber to sort of make a patchwork for their transit. For people in Inisville, if they want to go to some major hubs, that's where they would go for transit. Would we be seeing something like that? What are sort of the guidelines when we look at expanding it across the province? I think what we're primarily looking at from the provincial perspective is harmonizing rules around licensing and probably driver training. I don't think that Queens Park wants to come into each and every individual community and say, this is how you are going to use Uber or you are going to use Lyft.

But, you know, there is this patchwork that, you know, the province never likes to see a patchwork of rules if they think that it's impacting how well these systems work and how well they can be run. So, you know, for example, if you've got different licensing rules in Toronto versus Mississauga, these are two cities right next door to each other, the province is going to step in and harmonize those. or may step in and harmonize those. All right.

They're also looking to repeal the Skydome Act. I put that and I underline it because it seems a little outdated here. Aside from the fact that it's now called the Rogers Center for 20 years, why are they repealing it? Yeah, it takes some time for law to catch up. So this is actually even more arcane. This is the Skydome Act bus parking 2002. There is a piece of legislation that specifically refers to a single piece of land on Brebner Boulevard in downtown Toronto. that requires that land be used for bus parking.

Now, obviously, land in downtown Toronto is very expensive. It's a provincially owned land. We can find better use for that land than bus parking. And the province, I think, is pretty clearly looking to cash in on this. This is a big enough piece of land that it could host a substantial condo tower, for example. But there's this law on the books from almost a quarter century. true ago saying that it has to be used for bus parking. So they are repealing that law and giving themselves a bit more flexibility. To be clear, the government hasn't said what they are going to do

with this land. But so long as that law is on the books, all they can do is bus parking. They're giving themselves some more options. I got to ask, there are a few hundred pages in this budget. There are billions of dollars of spending expenditure all over the place. Why does this thing stick out to you? So first of all, there is this question of like, what's the story with this piece of land, right? And so, yes, I found myself going back to the archives and looking for old newspaper coverage of what was the dispute. How did the province end up owning this piece of light and why has it been restricted to bus parking use for a quarter century? And it turns out there's a story because, of course there is. The city of Toronto had proposed to develop this as

a residential piece of land, like a tower or something. And the owners of the then Skydome, opposed it because the piece of land is directly adjacent to the entryway to the underground parking for the Skydome. And they said, hey, if you put a big condo tower here, it's going to interfere with our loading and unloading at the dome. And they got into a dispute with the city over this. And the province stepped in and basically said, fine, that's it. Nothing but bus parking. 25 years later, they are reevaluating their priorities. Okay.

Does anyone ever told you you're quite the nurse? It's come up once or twice. All right, let's move. On my wedding day. I love it. All right, well, speaking of wedding days, I'm sure you had some booze at your wedding. Let's talk a little bit about booze. How are LCBO revenues doing lately?

Not so good as what I see. Yes, so this is a part of a trend that has continued for several years and looks like it is going to continue for the future. Now, you know, if you're a normal person, you might not understand why the LCBO reports to the Minister of Finance in the structure of Ontario government, but from the government's point of view, alcohol is a money issue, most of all. And we regulate the LCBO primarily as a means of making money for the government. And a bunch of things are going on here. First of all, the government has changed the policies around beer and wine sales very publicly. They have moved

beer and wine sales into corner stores, gas stations, these kinds of retail opportunities. In doing so they have also given these retailers different prices that have had the effect of getting less money out of the LCBO for the public treasury. Separately, but also interestingly, people are drinking less, particularly they are drinking less since COVID. People might remember how much self-medication some of us are doing during the pandemic. People are having healthier habits now. And also like the biggest sort of demographic lump of the millennials, of which I am at the earliest edge of, is starting to age into less drinking years. And so not only have revenues come down, but it looks like revenues are going to continue going down for the future. Okay. Lastly, let's talk about some

tourism. What investments is Ontario making in the sector there? Right. And part of this also connects to what we were talking about with the Northlander, where the government is really trying to emphasize travel within Ontario. Again, something that started during COVID when people couldn't go as internationally as they once might. Two big projects that are in the budget are the tourism plans, if you could put it that way, for Niagara and for Wasaga Beach. In Niagara, the government is really hoping to revive some of the struggling casinos in Niagara Falls in particular, but also looking at tourism opportunities throughout Niagara region generally. Of course, the Premier has also had some interest lately in the governance of Niagara region,

which we've talked about on the On-Polly podcast. And then in Wasaga Beach, there's a more interesting question there where the province has, I guess you could say, surrendered provincial parkland to the local government as part of the efforts, again, to sort of drive more tourism into Wasaga. And, you know, certain, that has alarmed certain environmental advocates in terms of, you know, they're worried about whether the ecological integrity of that land will be preserved. But the local government in Wasaga Beach has been very clear that they don't want to endanger these lands. They want to be able to plan a bit more comprehensively for this area than they were able to,

when the land's ownership was all fractured between the local municipality and the province and the parks. And they're hoping that this way it'll be a bit more comprehensive. Okay. John Michael, we are going to have to leave it there. Really appreciate it. Stories that we will probably follow. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for having me. That's John Michael McGrath, our resident nerd.

I'm Jan. Thanks for watching The Rundown. We'd love to know what you think. So send us your suggestions and feedback at, rundown at tbo.org. We can always leave us a comment on YouTube. Until then, I'll see you tomorrow.