The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - What's Next for New Liberal MPPs at Queen's Park?

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

The Agenda welcomes four of the five new Liberal MPPs to discuss returning to Queen's Park with official party status for this first time in seven years: Rob Cerjanec, the MPP for Ajax; Lee Fairclough, the MPP for Etobicoke-Lakeshore; Jonathan Tsao, the MPP for Don Valley North; And Tyler Watt, the MPP for Nepean.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Renew your 2.0 TVO with more thought-provoking documentaries, insightful current affairs coverage, and fun programs and learning experiences for kids. Regular contributions from people like you help us make a difference in the lives of Ontarians of all ages. Visit tvo.me slash 2025 donate to renew your support or make a first-time donation and continue to discover your 2-point TVO. Last month's 44th general election seems to have been a bit of a snoozefest for most Ontarians. More than half of us didn't vote and the polls essentially didn't move throughout the writ period.

But tonight's guests probably didn't mind at all that Doug Ford called an election 16 months early, and that's because they all won for the first time. So let's welcome four of the five new liberal MPPs who helped the red team achieve official party status for the first time in seven years. And here they are in alphabetical order. Rob Serjanic, he is the new MPP for Ajax.

Lee Fairclough, she is the new MPP for Etobicoke Lakeshore. Jonathan Sow, the new MPP for Don Valley North. And Tyler Watt, the new MPP for Nepean. We should also mention that Stephanie Smythe was the fifth new Liberal MPP elected, but she was unable to join us today. But we're delighted to have you four with us here at Young and Eglinton for what might be, I guess, your first interview. Some of you aren't even sworn in yet to office, so here we go.

Tyler, you first. Your writing, Nepean, has been conservative for the last 30 years. What the heck made you think a liberal could win that seat? Well, it all started in 2022 when I ran the first time. You know, not many people had hope that we would win. But I knew I had to at least try. I was born and raised in Nepean. I really care about that community. I worked there as a nurse and I see firsthand what's going on with our hospitals and healthcare system. So even though, yes, it was conservative for nearly 30 years, I knew we had to at least try and the people of Nepean spoke this time around. How many did you win by?

About 5,000. That's pretty good. Yeah, I'm quite over the moon about it. Okay. Lee, to you next. You ran in 2022, lost by just over 800 votes. Yes. Really tight.

At what point did you decide that you wanted a rematch with Christine Hogarth, who of course is the former Conservative member you beat? Well, first of all, thanks for having us back. Certainly our discussion last time after the election was a different one. But in that conversation, we talked about needing to keep rebuilding. And I would say that the team that I worked with after the last election, two days after, brought me to the back, stacked up the signs and said, we need to start working now to make sure that we can win the system.

So you were going again right away? I said to them, whether it's me or somebody else, we are going to make sure that we have a really good effort here in Etobicoke Lakeshore. So we started working with the PLA, with that team, and starting to prepare. And then it became clear there was going to be an early election call of some sort, and then I went forward for the nomination last October. Would you win by this time? Well, this time it was 4,500 votes.

Okay, big victory for you. Now let's get this on the record because I, being a Hamiltonian, am well aware that the first ever female Cabinet Minister in Canadian history, Ellen Fairclough, is from Hamilton. And this was in the Diefenbaker government a long, long time ago. And Sheldon, bring the shot up here. I was in Hamilton this past weekend.

I got a picture of this just so I could ask you this question. There is a building in Hamilton named after Ellen Fairclough, the first ever female cabinet minister. True or false, you are or are not related to her? I am not related to her. Oh.

Sadly. And I look for the opportunity to be related to her. But I have read her biography. Oh, okay. Very good. And you say fairclough. She pronounces it fairclough. Okay. There we go. Rob, I will confess on election night, we watched the returns come in, in this studio, and in your writing, and everybody at the table thought, this makes no sense at all. The Tories are holding every seat in Halton, in Peel, in York regions that they won last time,

but they are losing this seat in Ajax. How did that make sense? I think a couple things. In the last election, the vote total was not that much of a difference between the Conservative and the Liberal. And in this campaign, we listened to residents and we ran a very locally focused campaign so it was issues like the Green Belt. Folks were very upset about that. It was around Express Go Train service and the hospital in the community as well that you know we heard many times time and time again about the challenges that were going there so we ran a very locally focused campaign speaking about local issues and folks responded to that

and they sent me to Queen's Park so happy to be there. What'd you win by? 331 votes. Tight. Did you know on election night you were gonna win? I knew it was gonna be close I just didn't know which side of the coin it was gonna fall on. And it fell on yours? It did. There we go. Okay Jonathan your writing was interesting because you ran of course not only against a progressive conservative nominated candidate but against the former sitting member who ran again as an independent. And I guess the question is, given that they probably split the center-right vote,

is that how you won? Well, I think how I won was making sure that I was able to connect with my constituents, right? This is all about talking to our neighbors and making sure that we have a message that fits what their priorities are. Fair to say, though, that if the former conservative candidate then running it as an independent didn't run, you probably don't win. Look, I think again, it's all about the message to make sure you're connecting with your constituents and you're actually delivering on what their priorities are. I wasn't worried about this game or the infighting, the political inside baseball.

I focused 100% on making sure we ran a disciplined campaign and we listened to what the people of Don Valley North had to say. And this is the result and I'm really happy to get to work. What'd you win by? About 2,000 votes. Okay. Well, okay, that's the good news for you, For. Now I get to bring up the bad news. For the fifth straight year, you liberals do not have a leader who has a seat inside the Ontario legislature. Bonnie Cromby, of course, contested Mississauga East Cooksville and did not win. Lee, how problematic is that for your party?

I think at this stage, I mean we one we were thrilled to some degree and some of the outcomes of this election. The first is we got 30 percent of the popular vote and we have official party status so we've we've achieved a lot in that. As you've seen, we are in full support of Bonnie continuing as our leader, and she will continue to do the work of continuing to build across the province. The caucus has been, you know, is used to working with Bonnie in this way as well.

And I think for those of us at Queen's Park, as she is out across the province, we've got to make sure we're learning and hearing from her what's important. So it can only help us to do our jobs better, I believe, at this stage, and we keep going. Should she stay on as leader? Yeah. You agree? Absolutely, and I did want to note that, you know, this isn't without political precedence in Canada,

actually. Canada's longest-serving Prime Minister, Mackenzie King, in two separate elections, lost his own seat and then came back to be Prime Minister, right? So I think there's great things ahead for the Ontario party and great things ahead for our leader, Monique Ramby. Tyler, you want to stay on as leader? Yes, absolutely. And I'll say, like, there's more work to be done outside the legislature. We now have an amazing group of Liberal MPPs that are there to hold the Ford government accountable in the legislature. And when we're not there, we're going to be out and about throughout Ontario, and that's what Bonnie's going to be doing. She came to Nepean so many times I lost count, not only during the slush and but beforehand as well, right?

It is that grassroots movement. It is listening to people in your constituency, getting those local issues down and representing them. And that's how we become victorious again. You came third again. This is three elections in a row that the liberals came third in the seat count. Admittedly, Lee, you're right. Much better in the total vote count, almost 30% of the total vote.

You have official party status right now, which is new. More than 12 seats. You haven't had that in three elections. What does that mean, Rob? It means that we're going to have a lot more resources in the legislature in terms of preparing for debates in three elections. What does that mean, Rob? It means that we're going to have a lot more resources in the legislature in terms of preparing for debates in the legislature, and as well, doing the work both in our writings

but also around the province. And that means going into other writings. That means having the time and the ability for us to be able to talk to other folks and encourage them to come over the liberal fold next time, but also listen to them. So we'll have the resources and we'll be effective as the people's opposition at Queen's Park.

I'm hearing this expression. I heard your leader use it at the press conference. The people's opposition. What does that actually mean? Lee? Well, I think that we saw the way people voted in this election. Again, it was 30% were supportive of liberals. It didn't translate in the same way in the seat count but we really do

believe that there were more and more people that were compelled and inspired by what we were offering and we're gonna keep working to serve people through throughout this next four years. Jonathan do you feel more legit being an official party now as opposed to well seven independents which is what you were before? You know I think we shouldn't underestimate how important this accomplishment was in this election right? 30% of the vote, over 1.5 million Ontarians chose the Ontario Liberal Party as their

voice in the Ontario legislature. Now, were the results what we had hoped of or what we had dreamt of? No. But we shouldn't for one second discount how important this change is, right? We have more time on the floor, we have more seats in the House, we have party status. This is huge and we're really excited to use this momentum and keep going forward to deliver for the people of Ontario. You know, as excited as you all are, you understand it's my job to pour a little cold water on your parade here. So that's what I'm going to do. Tyler, okay, yes, the Liberals can boast up to 30 percent, but a very inefficient vote and the NDP with a lot fewer votes than you, is still the official opposition. What's wrong with your party still?

Well, I think, you know, we are coming from having non-party status. And like Jonathan said, it is massive that we got this. There was a time where I worked at Queen's Park in between my third and fourth year of nursing school for Missy Hunter after this in 2019. So I know what it's like to be you know seen as independents and not have those resources. So I'm beyond excited that we now have that and I can't wait to see what we're gonna bring over the next four years and that's really gonna set us up for success in the next election. Okay I want to ask each of you because I know I sort of

jokingly said off the top it was a bit of a snooze fest election because the public opinion surveys really didn't change at all during the writ period, but you guys were out there knocking on tens of thousands of doors in the worst weather and it was so cold. I mean, I heard so many stories about not even being able to get lawn signs knocked into people's front lawns. I'd like from each of you the weirdest thing that happened during the course of the campaign. What's the weirdest thing you encountered during the course of running for office? Who's got a story?

Okay, Rob, start us off. I mean, I've been knocking on doors in general for many years. I've been in politics for a long time, so nothing really kind of takes me aback anymore, knocking on doors. Although I think this is the first election where I was really knocking in snowstorms and blizzards. So I got that comment a couple of times where it's like, I can't believe you're out here. I can't believe you're out here in this storm,

with massive snowfalls happening behind. So I think that was probably something that stood out to me. Jonathan? I wouldn't say it's a weird thing, but one of the things I love most about knocking on doors, you know, you're in your own neighborhood, your own community, you're knocking on doors. These are the places that I've grown up in.

And I came across my fifth grade teacher. So my fifth grade teacher, Mr. Marshall, if you're out there, hi, Mr. Marshall. Mr. Marshall said, you know, this is exciting. I'm so glad. And he said to me, I'm shocked that you're running for office. Because when you were a kid, you were the quietest young man. And now you're running for office, right?

So that just shows how much a community, how much an education, how much our friends and family have that impact on us. And then we give back to our own community. And he reminded me, look, teachers are the reason why you are where you are. So make sure when you get to Queens Park, you're fighting every day to invest in good health care,

our nurses and our doctors, and teachers so we all have a good education. What school? Bryan Elementary. Was he any good? Oh, he was fantastic. Okay. Lee, something weird happened during the RIP period? Well, I think, you know, again, going back to what's a winter campaign, I was pretty

impressed and grateful to the number of people that were going to come out, even that day after the huge snowfall that we had. We had 10 of us out there in the snow, multiple teams in buildings. So I think if that was that was a surprise that there was so much willingness actually for people to come out and and what was motivating them to come out. I think you always have the situation where one day we were out and one of my volunteers, you know, did talk to somebody at the door next to me and then the door closed and she said well that person didn't have their pants on. So there's always one of those on the campaign and he said well luckily she said luckily I worked in a doctor's

office for years so nothing surprises me. So there's always those. Can I say you've funnily enough anticipated my next question, which is, I have yet to speak to a political candidate who during a writ period did not see somebody naked at the door. Exactly. It happens all the time. Which is a little weird. It is.

Tyler, you got one. That also happened to me. Especially during the winter, it's more shocking, right? Summer, I kind of get it. But weirdest thing for me, I think, was like for me as a nurse, it's really important to get those personal connections with people. And doing this in the depths of winter, it's dark out by like 4.35 p.m. You know, people are strangers knocking on their door to talk about the worst thing in the world, politics with them.

Right. So them just creaking open the door a smidge. That barrier and challenge of like, OK, now have, you know know ten seconds to make that initial connection which was way easier I think in the 2022 election but you know I hope we don't ever have to do a winter election again I'll say that. Well Rob I was going to ask you know I know there were days when you're out there door knocking it's minus 10 it's minus 15 would people answer the door and actually talk to you? I was surprised actually people People did answer the door and we did have those conversations. Sometimes they're a little bit shorter. I did find on the days where people were out with their snowblower or shoveling, they weren't as engaging to talk to that day just because of the amount of snow that we got.

And to your point around lawn signs, we actually waited to put up signs a little bit and we were just putting them in the tops of snow banks. No kidding. Could you putting them in the tops of snow banks. No kidding. Yeah. Could you get signs in the ground? We have most campaigns that I know of bought rebar, so we purchased rebar instead, and that was the way to get those large signs into the ground easier. But small signs, snow bank is half my height, just top the snow bank. Did you get signs of the ground? Yeah, we didn't with wood stakes.

We had a terrific sign crew, and they perfected the drilling. It required drilling. It took a lot more time. Drilling. Drilling. Absolutely. The ground was like concrete. The ground is frozen.

But it paid off. The wood signs kept everything above so as we got more and more snow you could still see they were still visible. Okay, here's my next unhelpful topic. You ready? Here we go. If you look at the map of the province of Ontario, and if the three opposition parties, the liberals, the new democrats, and the greens had been, let's just say more strategic in where they chose or didn't choose to run candidates, you would have been able to hold...

The supposition is you could have held Doug Ford to a minority government and in that case you could have defeated his government and taken over in some kind of who knows what coalition supply and confidence agreement, bill by bill agreement, whatever. But for whatever reason your party, the New Democrats and the Greens all want to run full slates of candidates in all 124 ridings. The result is a progressive conservative majority government for the third straight time. Question. Tyler, do you so-called progressive parties, all in opposition, need to get your acts together so that you maybe get the outcome that you want to have

as opposed to a party with 43% of the vote getting 100% of the power. Yeah, I completely understand. And many people have voiced this throughout the election and after the fact. But I think the biggest thing is, is that not only do we need not just strategic, but it's up to us to inspire people to get out and vote. That's the biggest thing that I took from the 2022 election was it is better to get people excited and hopeful to vote for someone instead of against someone.

And yet half the people didn't vote. More than half the people didn't vote again. True, true. But then you look at this awesome group of people who did come out with wins and I think that we really need to focus in on that local movement and get people excited and really just invest in our candidates and make sure that the party stays message-focused and supporting our candidates across the province. Just to be clear I'm not advocating this but I am inundated by emails from people and phone calls from people who say if these three parties would stop cannibalizing the anti-tory vote and get their act together they could organize something that could defeat the progressive conservatives which is what you four told us for 30 straight days you wanted to do. Rob what about it? I think that that assumes that you know

every voter that supports each party is then just automatically going to switch to another party and frankly I don't really buy that. People will vote based on their opinions based on their values and based on the campaigns that candidates and leaders are putting forward. So in Ajax, yes, we did run, you know, anti-Doug Ford, but at the same time we also spoke about what we wanted to do in the community and the work we wanted to do together. Okay, but you won by 300 and how many? 331 votes. 331 votes. If there were, how many votes the New Democrat candidate get in your writing? Off the top of my head I don't remember the exact number. They dropped about 9 percent, I went up about 9 percent and

the conservative went up about 3 percent. But I'll give you an example in another writing where there was a candidate I think for the NDP that didn't run or that dropped out we saw that that seat actually still stayed conservative and that's in the City of Toronto. That's Eglinton-Lawrence and it was a hundred and seventy some odd votes. It was close. It was. So are you saying that you don't think any of the seats would have changed had you guys been more strategic about the way you did things?

I think it's hard to predict. And to be honest, I think we can do a whole session on this topic as well. And I would just add, and I know that this was happening in Etobicoke Lakeshore because people would voice it to me. I think that people are still making choices to vote strategically one way or another. And that, you know,

the number of times I got asked by NDP supporters and by conservatives actually looking for a change, the question was, who is most likely to bring a change here and why? And that, you know, again, going back to how you're inspiring people, I think that carries a lot of weight. So I don't think we can always assume

that if we were to do this, that we would have the kind of outcome you're suggesting. You're totally right. We can't make any assumptions. But, for example, in Paris and in Muskoka, the Greens came within, I think, about 1,000, 1,500 votes of knocking off a cabinet minister. And the Liberals and New Democrats in that riding took 3,500 votes. Now, you can't tell me that if those thirty five hundred votes that went

liberal or new democrat i don't think the most of them would have gone for the tories they would have gone for the greens to knock off the tory but do they show up to vote well these are all the questions right? these are all questions no for me it's about the strength of your argument right so when i go to a door knocking in don valley north and someone says well i'm going to vote green this time and i just tell them I respect that I respect that you have a choice

that you've made and probably maybe a party that you prefer but listen to what I have to say listen to what our party is putting forward and you'll see why we are the best option to defeat Doug Ford and that's because the Ontario Liberal Party has always been that big tent party right in the center of Ontario political politics and that's what's gonna to win. So right now what we saw in the last election, 30% of Ontarians in this election voted for us. This is only going to increase, Steve. We're starting something here that's amazing and I'm so excited to get down to Queens Park and really get to work. I'm just wondering though Tyler whether or not

you find it an inconsistent message to say for 30 straight days during the writ period, Doug Ford is unfit to govern. He should not be our premier. We are doing everything in our power to try and knock him off his perch so that we can get in there instead. But you won't cooperate with other opposition parties to make that happen. There are going to be people who see that and say, come on you guys, get your act together and do something to work together to try to make that happen.

Elizabeth May has said federally she would like to work with the other opposition parties to ensure the conservatives are not elected federally. Do you have to do that provincially? Well I think it's important to people in Ontario that all parties work together anyways. This is certainly like I've said a conversation that we could have you know endlessly. But you know even when I was at the door in Nepean, I got the vote from NDP voters, from conservative voters, from Green voters, from non-voters, first-time voters, and it all came down to them wanting a champion for Nepean at Queen's Park. You know, me saying,

I will work together with other parties to make sure that the voices of Nepean is heard, that we're going to address the health care system crisis that we're going to... That's you in Nepean. I know somebody in Mississauga who lost by 20 votes. And if there was not a new Democrat in the race or a green in that race, that seat would have been liberal instead of conservative. You gotta give me that, right? Yeah, yeah, I admit it.

Listen, I'm biased. I'm from Nepean. This is all I've known the last 30 days. Okay, we got about four minutes and change to go here. And I like that we've done a number of programs in the past on this station where we have rookie MPPs in and I'm always curious about what they, you know, what they want to get done while they're at Queen's Park. So I'm going to ask each of you to complete the following sentence.

My time in public life, however long it lasts, will have been worth it if... Lee, what? If I can make sure that we protect our public health care system, and we improve access to family doctors, and we make sure that this is front and centre for our provincial government. It's a core part of their job and we need vision and we need solutions. We should say as well you're not just doing talking points here. Your background is you worked in a hospital. I've worked 27 years in health care my whole career and I love it. I could have done it until I was 80. But I'm really deeply concerned about where it's been going. I heard that a lot

in Etobicoke Lakeshore throughout the election as well and so that will be that will be just one of many things that I hope to accomplish in this role but that's the main driver for me. My time in public life however long it lasts will be worth it if what? Every child has an opportunity to succeed so I bring that back to my upbringing. My mom was a single mom. I grew up in a one-bedroom apartment. So you know life was life wasn't always you know as easy as it can be. Went to some really great public schools. You know went to a great university. Had a lot of opportunities after employment-wise. So for me it's ensuring every child has that opportunity to succeed. So that's the

education. That's the job. That's the jobs and that's the innovation. Can you make that happen in opposition? I think we can advocate for that, absolutely. And that means holding the government to account on issues when those topics come up, but also presenting an alternative vision and alternative solutions, and frankly, pushing them to do more, because I think this government needs to do a lot more in these areas.

Jonathan. I would say that it'd make it all worth it if I can say that my neighbors truly believe that every single day I went to Queen's Park and fought for their priorities. I mean I think so many of us, you know we're rookie MPPs right, we're brand new, we haven't taken our seats yet, but I think in political life sometimes you get caught in that bubble right where you start to to focus on priorities that may not be the priorities of your neighbors who elected you. So I want to make sure that every single day when I go down to Queen's Park, the voice

that I'm speaking with isn't my voice. It's not the voice of my party necessarily. It's the voice of my neighbors who elected me and to make sure that we speak of the priorities that mean the most to them and that's health care, making sure they have a family doctor and houses that they can afford and feel safe living in. My time at Queen's Park will have been worth it if what? Well, without just repeating what everyone has said here, because I do agree with all of that.

I have two main things. Number one, it is protecting our public health care system and making it a system that people can thrive in and are proud of. We have a lot of work to do on that. And I'm so excited to be at Queen's Park to make that happen. And number two, it is to give people hope again.

The biggest thing that I took from this election was giving people hope, that they feel that they're going to be represented, that politics doesn't need to be this mudslinging system where nothing gets accomplished. People are excited about this change in a PN and I want to take that and run with it. I'm going to ask one last question of three of you. Tyler, how old are you? I'm 34. You are 34.

As on my literature. 34 years old. Rob, how old are you? 36. Jonathan? 37. This is very much a new generation in public life, which you don't always see.

It's not necessarily usual for 30-somethings to run and win. How does that feel? It feels good. But I think, more importantly, I think it's about a new approach to politics and a different perspective. As society evolves, as we get older, we bring different experiences with us.

So I think the experience of Tyler, John, myself, and many of the other new MPPs that are in our generation, I think will experience of Tyler, John, myself, and many I think the other new MPPs that are in our generation, I think will bring a different approach and, frankly, vision to the province. Did you ever think, gosh, I wonder if I'm too young to do this job? No, to be honest. It's just I've never really questioned this crazy adventure that I've been on, right? It started off me just talking on Twitter about what Doug Ford was doing. That was back in 2018 and now 2025 I'm going to Queens Park and running in this in these elections twice now it was seeing the excitement from young people you know

people in politics love to say young people don't vote it's because they need a reason right so when they see a young person at the door who says I get what you're going through there's like you know what you'll be my first vote cool I want to thank the four of you for coming into TVO tonight and sharing your views and as I would say to all the rookies who've done these shows over the years, good luck to you. I hope you have a good, enjoyable time at Queen's Park. Thank you.

Thank you. Thanks everybody.