The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - When Richard Nixon Came to Prince Edward County

Episode Date: June 19, 2025

In 1957, Richard Nixon ventured to Prince Edward County for a "boys weekend" of fishing and golfing. Steve Paikin catches up with author Thomas Harrison in Picton's Royal Hotel to discuss his book, "Searching for Richard Nixon: Finding Refuge and Making a Home in Prince Edward County ," which documents his movements in the region.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We are here in front of the Royal Hotel in Picton, Ontario in Prince Edward County. I'm here with Thomas Harrison, who's got a new book out called Searching for Richard Nixon. And I learned in this book, who was on this sidewalk back in 1957? Richard Nixon. Richard Nixon, who was vice president at the time, walked up from the Prince Edward Yacht Club and he stood in this very spot before going into the Royal Hotel for a cool drink. Let's do that because I got to hear this story.

Okay. Come on, Thomas. Thomas, here we are. Yes. Royal Hotel. Welcome to Picton. Thank you very much, Ari. We got to hear the story.

How did you find out that Richard Nixon, then the vice president, to Dwight Eisenhower, visited here in 1957? Well, my good friend Arthur Milnes, who's a Kingston-based journalist and author, told me a story on a trip we took down to Georgia to visit President Carter.

On the way back, we were talking about all the famous people from Eastern Ontario who've run through history. And he said to me, at one point we were talking about the Secretary of State, John Foster Dulles, who owned a cottage out on Maindock Island, he said to me, you know, Nixon stopped in Picton too. And I was quite perplexed because I'd been here for many years at that point and had never heard the story.

He said, I don't know the whole story. But my understanding is he did stop and he did stop in a bar and went drinking or something. And I, for the next few years, spent a good deal of time investigating that story to find out if it was true or not. Well, why did this story of Nixon's trip here resonate so much with you that you wanted to spend this much time investigating? Well, honestly, I didn't realize that I'd spend this much time investigating. I thought it would probably be a footnote to history and as it developed I thought well maybe this will be an article. But then I kept finding all kind of tangential stories that related to Nixon and local people who'd met him, including the mayor of Picton. And then

COVID hit and I had a lot of time to engage in self-reflection and my own story started appearing in what I was writing. So in addition to talking about how Nixon found Prince Edward County, I started talking about how I found Prince Edward County and how so many others did too. And so it became a much longer tale than I originally imagined. Because you're a kid from Scarborough originally. Yeah, that's right. Scarborough born and bred. And you came to the county in when?

Early 2000s. Yeah. So does that make you a recent emigrate to the county? Well, there is among some sectors of the county a belief that, you know, unless you go back at least to the United Empire loyalists that you are you know a relative newcomer from away So how many years would you estimate you spent figuring this whole thing out? I first heard the story in 2016 and I wrote until 2023

so Probably really in earnest writing starting in about 2020 20 so it took me seven years of investigation and writing Well, I got to ask the obvious question, which is why would the vice president of the United States want to take a boys weekend in 1957 in of all places picked in Ontario, Canada? Yeah, that is the question for sure. It's the central question of the book. And I have at least a couple of answers and then a couple of speculations in the book. He said he was coming for a boys weekend of golf and sailing and he came with several

other people as well and they did do those things. I've tracked down records of him golfing at one of the local golf clubs and I have journalistic accounts of the visit to the bar, where he went drinking and his own account in terms of getting seasick on the way over. So he did come for a weekend away after the Independence Day weekend in the United States. But he also came, I think, to shore up some political alliances. There were several important people on the boat, well-heeled supporters who would probably have proven important to him in his run for the presidency in 1960.

And there was also a man who was a state senator from Virginia who was not only a political connection but also was probably trying to lobby Richard Nixon about the Civil Rights Act of 1957, which was the first of the Civil Rights Acts in the United States. And so this senator from Virginia didn't support it and I suspect was trying to get the vice president's ear to try and sway his vote. President Nixon's trip in 1972 to Ottawa, in which he talks about his time in Prince Edward County. What did he say? Well, he's put on the spot. So he wasn't expected to give a speech.

And so he spoke without notes. And he stood up in Rideau Hall and gave a speech in which he related what he called the most wonderful time that he'd ever spent in Canada, which was picked in Ontario in 1957. And he talked a little bit about going to a bar after playing golf and being recognized by some of the waitstaff, one of whom didn't believe he was actually the vice president of the United States. And the person came over to him and said, I have a bet with my friend for $5 and will you settle it for me and tell him that you're the vice president of the United States?

And Nixon does. And then he says, as a way to kind of send a message to the Canadian audience that he wasn't very popular in Canada at that time. So he was sending a message, he says, so that's just to say that sometimes when we see each other in person, we're not as off-putting or we look a lot better in person than we do from a distance. And so there had been some tensions between Canada and the United States and between the president and the prime minister at the time.

And so this is his way of kind of trying to build a bridge between Canada and the United States at that time. The president, of course, was Nixon at the time. The prime minister was Pierre Elliott Trudeau at the time. And Mr. Nixon made a very interesting prediction of what would happen to one of the offspring of the prime minister. What was it? Well, he raises a glass and he says to Justin Trudeau, the next Prime Minister of Canada,

despite the fact that in 1971 we had the Nixon shocks and he tried to impose tariffs on Canada, much like today they're trying to impose tariffs. By the time Christmas rolls around and then the April visit in 1972, he's really trying to make amends with Canada. So reaching out to Pierre Trudeau and talking to him or complimenting him about the birth of his son and suggesting he might one day rise to the level of prime minister is really his way of trying to make nice.

Somebody should recommend that to Trump. No, nevermind, we'll put that aside. We are sitting here in the beautiful Royal Hotel in Picton, which has not looked like this since 1881, but it has been here on like this since 1881, but it has been here on this site since 1881. Any idea whether Mr. Nixon set foot inside the hotel? That's a good question, and that was one of the motivations I had for following up on the book to try to find out. From the story, if he visited a bar, he said in his speech

that it was in Picton on the Saturday night. Which bar was it? Because there wouldn't have been that many. Of course, the royal was here back then. And so I did try to find out. I had a couple of witnesses who saw him walk up the street. And in fact, one of them says he may have gone inside for a while. But from contemporary accounts, from journalist accounts, from people who reported on it afterwards, they don't report it as having the drink occurring here in the Royal Hotel. Now, he did walk by, he did stop out front, and he may have come into the hotel at some point. But the story itself that he later tells probably didn't happen here.

Let me do a follow-up on the hotel, because this place was truly dilapidated until about a decade ago when the former finance minister for Ontario, Greg Sorbara, bought it and initiated the renovation of the place to bring it to its current splendor. When you told Mr. Sorbara that Richard Nixon had once stopped in here at the hotel, potentially, what did he say? Well, he laughed and he said with almost without missing a beat, he said, well, he laughed and he said with almost without missing a beat he said well if I'd known that time I never would have bought it which I thought was perfect. When Nixon came to Picton he had an interaction with a man at the top of the hill. Do we know who that man was? Yes. I described

him as Driver in the book. I couldn't corroborate the name but I'm pretty sure I do know who it is and I also think there was some vulnerability around him and his family in terms of either mental health or addictions. And so, you know, in order to be a little bit sensitive to that, I fictionalized the name. What kind of interaction did Mr. Nixon and this man have? So Nixon and his party went on a walking tour of the main street led by two small boys and they were returning back down to the Picton Yacht Club and they got to the top of the town hill and at the top of the town hill was a man who in the words of witnesses was

still drunk from the night before. At least they presume that's the case. And he was known by reputation amongst the parents of the children that were present as being somebody who did overindulge too often. And so for some reason or another, Nixon and his party not saying the man was ranting and screaming out loud, he went over and started talking to the man. And they asked one of the men, said, do you know who this is? And the man I've called Driver says, he looks like George from Greenbush.

And they all laughed. And another one of the party says, this is the vice president of the United States. This is Richard Nixon. And apparently that was enough to kind of shock the man a little bit. And Nixon then turned to him and said, why don't we give our friend a few dollars? And apparently Nixon didn't carry a wallet because he got his friend to give his wallet out and give him a bill from his wallet, American money. And so that apparently satisfied Driver and Nixon basically met this homeless man, had a conversation with him and gave him some money. So, you know,

as vice president of the United States gives you a few dollars on a Ontario, rural Ontario town, that's something to be noted. That does not happen every day. No, it doesn't. The Mayor of Picton also met Richard Nixon that day. Tell us about that. The Mayor of Picton is Harvey McFarland, and he was the longest serving Mayor of Picton. And he heard that Nixon was in the harbor and went down to meet him, took some local agricultural products as gifts, including a can of maple syrup and probably a bottle

of Crown Royal whiskey, and meets Nixon down there and has a good conversation with him at the Prince Edward Yacht Club. Now Harvey McFarland is a local legend and he was known to be very gregarious and know a lot of important people. So he wouldn't let the opportunity to make a connection with the Vice President go by, and he kept in touch with Richard Nixon afterwards. Sent him Christmas cards every year, sent him whiskey every year, cheese every year. Richard Nixon stayed friends with the Mayor of Picton until the day the Mayor of Picton died.

Well, okay, follow up on that because apparently they had so much of a connection that Mr. Nixon did what after he died? He wrote a personal note of condolence to Harvey McFarland's widow. And so that was right in the middle of the Watergate crisis. And so he took time out of his schedule to do that. And so, you know, that was, I think, a testament to just how connected Harvey was and how well thought of he was, not only locally but really around the world. Have you seen that letter?

I've seen it, yes, yeah. It was reprinted in a bunch of local newspapers and it's recreated in the book too. Do you know where the original letter is? I believe one of the family members has it. They still have it. Yeah, they do. That's a keepsake. It is a keepsake. Holy smokes, is it ever.

Yeah. Okay, I want to read a little excerpt from the book here, okay? Here we go. That little story tells us something about why this trip is important and why it's quite necessary. Maybe none of us look quite as bad in person as we may in our pictures, and we Canadians and Americans must never miss the opportunity

to see each other in person. This is Richard Nixon, as you've quoted him in your book, Searching for Richard Nixon, referring to that day in the restaurant when the wait staff were having this $5 bet on whether he is or he isn't. I wonder what, and I'm going to ask you to speculate here, I wonder what Mr. Nixon would make of Canadian-American relations today where Canadians are canceling their trips to the United States, where they are declining to purchase American-made products,

because of the guy who's in the White House. Yeah, I guess, you know, it would be the question of whether it's Nixon in 1968 or 1970 and Nixon in 1973, because at least initially Richard Nixon had a very similar view to Canada that the current resident of the White House has, right, Donald Trump, and he imposed a 10% tariff on the United States. He withdrew America from international institutions like the Bretton Woods financial system, much as the United States is occurring now. And so, you know, in some ways it's very similar.

But you know, at some point Nixon believed in two things. First of all, believed in rule of law and international relations. And second of all, he had good advisors. So Henry Kissinger went to Richard Nixon and said, it's pointless for you to keep doing this. You're hurting us as much as you are them. And within about six months, Nixon lifted the tariffs on Canada and made these overtures, which included the trip to Canada in which

he made those remarks. And so I think in the end he realized how important it was to have an economic partner on the northern part of the continent that was strong and independent and ultimately how much money and profit they could make together as partners and allies as opposed to being adversaries. And so I don't think he would make much if it was the later Nixon. I don't think he would make much of what's going on right now. Did Nixon ever threaten to annex Canada?

Not to my knowledge. Did Mr. Nixon play golf while he was here in the county? So that's an interesting question because so he comes on the Friday night and he's here the Saturday, Sunday and he heads back on the Friday night and he's here the Saturday Sunday and he heads back on the Monday morning. I have a golf cart from him playing golf but not in the county. He actually goes up to the Quinty Golf and Country Club which is on the north shore of the Bay of Quinty and it's just outside of Belleville. So he did play golf that day. I don't have a record of

what he did the second day and I'm not quite sure what he did the second day. What did he shoot? 92. 92. So that's what the 10 over par or something like that? Yeah more he was Oh, he was not a great goal. Okay. He he took up golf because Eisenhower golfed and So, you know, this is kind of interesting too And you talked about the present day to everybody always talks about how Donald Trump golf so much, right? He is still under the pace set by Eisenhower in terms of the amount he golfed. Eisenhower golfed so much, he had a hotline installed in the pro shop in the golf course where he played.

So Nixon, you know, he was more or less a working class guy. And golf was then as it is now in many places an elite sport. And so he didn't know how to play golf, but he realized if he was going to have the presidency or he was going to have to learn. So he started learning after he won the presidency, he was going to have to learn. So he started learning after he won the Senate position and was vice presidential candidate. And so he hadn't been golfing very long and he never got very good. In fact, he quits before he before the end. He says, I'm not going to play golf anymore. He was more of a bowler, really.

Thomas, I'm a little bit older than you, which makes me old enough to remember when a guy named Arthur Bremer tried to assassinate George Wallace in 1968. What I didn't know and what I learned in your book was that Wallace was not Bremer's first target. Tell us. Well, just as Nixon came on a boat to Canada and to visit. Arthur Bremer came from Michigan. He took a ferry over Lake Michigan and he did that because he thought that the unusual point of entry into Canada would hide the fact that he was carrying a gun and that when Nixon visited in 1972, he could shoot him.

And so he arrives in Ottawa and he ghosts Richard Nixon for his entire trip when he's here on a state visit. And so the chance to kill Nixon never came. The security was too tight. But if he'd had his way, it wouldn't have been George Wallace that would have been shot. It would have been Richard Nixon in 1972. Did you find yourself, after having written the book,

sympathizing with Richard Nixon more than perhaps you might have when you embarked on this journey? I think that's fair. You know, I thought of him as an unindicted criminal, more or less a bad man, someone who did bad things. And I was really quite surprised by the number of incidents I found that reveal a very different side of his character. And I also had an opportunity to examine his record, which is quite impressive.

Like for any senior level politician to do some of the things he did is really quite amazing and surprising. Some of the things I didn't know. He did have a habit of not telling the truth, of confabulating. And so I think at the time people held politicians to a much higher standard and it seems much more egregious that he would have done what he did. That may not be so true today. I find that answer interesting because and here I'm going to ask you to tell us a little bit about your own legal background because a guy with your legal background who finds himself sympathizing

with a guy who broke so many laws to me is fascinating. So tell us about you. So I'm a teacher but also a lawyer. I went back to law school in my 30s and for the past 20 years or so been practicing law. I spent over a decade working for the Ontario Attorney General but mostly assigned to this Peer Court of Justice as counsel to the Chief Justice of this Peer Court. So you know rule of law and constitutionalism was sort of my bag. So how can you have any brief at all for Richard Nixon? Here's what I would say. If you were to think about Richard Nixon and Donald Trump, one of the things I would say to you about Richard Nixon is notwithstanding the fact that he did break laws, and Richard Nixon did, an undisputed criminal in some ways.

He also had a healthy respect for the rule of law. And at the end of the day, he believed in democracy, which is why he resigned. And so he believed in accountability and democratic accountability, even if he didn't always play by the rules. At the end of the day, I think that's a fundamental difference between Donald Trump and Richard Nixon. The conclusion of your book is that in searching for Nixon, you say you actually found yourself. What does that mean, Tom?

I said at the beginning, I started really focusing in on the writing in 2020, and that just happened to coincide with the pandemic. And so, like everybody, I was sitting at my kitchen table And so, like everybody, I was sitting at my kitchen table, thinking about the world and being very isolated. And writing about Richard Nixon became an opportunity for me to not only reflect on my own past and the connections between the past, the history that I was exploring through Richard Nixon, but also what's happening today, but also to bridge the gulf between me and my friends and neighbours here in Prince Edward County and It became an opportunity for me to explore

those things but also on a more creative note, I started painting and I really blossomed as a creative artist and so I wrote the book. I painted I'm acting now and so you know, I really welcome the opportunity to look into Richard Nixon because it gave me an opportunity to see someone who had been very successful, but, you know, really had a kind of a challenged take on his own success, and it made me self-reflective about where I was in my life. There are so few opportunities for us to learn something new about American presidents and their relationships with Canada, so good on you for writing this book because I learned a lot

that I surely never knew before. Well that's great, thank you for your time. And thanks for the chat.