The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - Why is Violent Crime Spiking in Ontario?

Episode Date: September 5, 2024

Violent crime in the Greater Toronto Area is spiking, with shootings in York region up 92% compared to this time last year. Carjackings over the same period have doubled. A look at the regions most affected and how police say they will try to crack down on what they describe as trend toward violent gun crime, with Jason Miller, crime reporter with The Toronto Star.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Greater Toronto and Hamilton area is seeing a surge in violent crimes. Homicides, shootings and carjackings are all up. This past Labor Day weekend saw three people killed in Ontario's capital city, including a 15-year-old boy. Jason Miller, crime reporter with the Toronto Star, joins us now to help us understand these very troubling events. First time on the program, we welcome you here, and we are looking forward to your helping us understand that when the Toronto police say that they are shocked by what's been going on,

I assume it takes a lot to shock a Toronto police officer. So what's going on? Absolutely. And to be frank, being a crime reporter, you do see this on a daily basis. So we're somewhat more exposed to these numbers than anyone else, even the general public, because we do review and analyze them.

And what we've seen in the last several years has been startling in terms of the spike in certain types of violent crimes, shootings, homicides. And not only that, the type of offenders that we're seeing in terms of suspects, younger and younger, and that's becoming more and more troubling. And I think that's where you see police, the top brass, stepping out in front of this in New York region and in Toronto, doing some press conferences to address these issues, because they know the public is becoming very concerned. Okay, Jason, I know this is a daily thing for you, because this is your beat, but are you shocked at what you're seeing right now this is more than normal? Definitely, definitely

some alarming trends and as I mentioned before the the number of young people you've seen the increasing numbers of 15, 17, 16 year olds who are being charged with things like carjackings and we're not just talking to when we say carjack and we're talking with weapons, violent thefts. And you look at the number, look at this weekend, a 15-year-old being killed. And so you look at situations just up there in Vaughan where a two-year-old was killed alongside his mom

inside a home where you're supposed to be the most safe. And so you've seen some very startling incidents this year and startling violent crimes. And I think we all have to take time to take stock of this and really see where we are heading as a community and see how we can address these issues. You mentioned Vaughn. Vaughn is in York Region, so I'll pick up there.

York Regional Police released some statistics, which included, here we go, 64 carjackings so far this year. That's a 106% increase from last year. 15 homicides in York Region. That's not the York Region of the past that I know. 46 shootings. That's a 92% increase from last year. Is there in your view as you look at this a material difference in the types of crimes happening say in the city core versus in the suburbs? Not at all. And that's one of the things we do see as crime reporters

and as just as journalists out there in the field is that what you hear more and more coming from police is that people were offending across and borders. And so the GTA is an open playing field for everyone. And it just comes down to where people are at a certain time is not necessarily dictated by where they're from, right? And so you see people from Toronto going into York and committing offenses and being charged there. And so there's no boundaries at this point, especially when it pertains to things like the tow truck conflict

that we've seen in the last few years where people are being attacked at their homes in Vaughan, but the shooter is from Toronto. And so there's been a mix of, and you heard that in the conversation from Chief McSwain up in York Region last week, where he was saying, listen, we have young people coming from all across the province stealing cars, committing carjackings, we're seeing more and more of that. And so those boundaries no longer kind of exist, they're not hard boundaries, right? And criminality no, no bounds as it pertains to that in our city.

Now I remember, gosh, it was probably 15 or 20 years ago, they called it the summer of the gun because things spiked up for no apparent reason. And here we are again. Is this cyclical as opposed to something special this year? I think what we have to be most concerned of is the last handful of years that we've experienced coming out of this pandemic. I don't know if it's sparked or driven by that experience that we all went through as humans

and what we can make of that. But what I can say is that we're looking back about the year of the gun that you mentioned about 20 or so years ago. And when you draw into focus what we're now seeing, the year over year increases are very dramatic. Where you see the chief in York Region saying he had 106% spike over last year this time.

Last year, your total number of card jackins in York Region was about 58 or 57, give or take. This year, we're already at 64. So that gives you a sense. And the year's not over. Homicides last year, only about 14 in York Region. They were already at 15 this year. So not to say even what there was last year compared to this year at not over. Homicides last year only about 14 in York Region they're already at 15 this year so not to say even what there was last year compared

to this year this time the entire year we've already passed that number. So very problematic in terms of those increases you're seeing the same type of increases but different much larger numbers in the in the larger neighbor which is Toronto where you and I are sitting right now. Where you know we're in like saying for example a Peel a municipality of over a million where we're in, like, say, for example, a Peel, a municipality of over a million folks, you're seeing about 8,000 plus car thefts. In Toronto, you're seeing about 12,000 plus car thefts, right?

But when you add that up, that's 20 plus thousand car thefts, 24,000, 25,000 car thefts in two municipalities alone. And so that is very telling that it's a wave that's touching every community. And when you talk about shootings and gun crimes, and police across the region are saying, 85%, 90% of these guns are coming in illegally from the state's handguns that we're dealing with.

And so everyone's been touched in a similar way. And it's kind of the unfortunate cycle of how criminality is working, organized crime. We see some communities like York Region saying about four or so groups are fighting for the space in terms of who controls where and when and how. And that goes to many things, including drugs and other things as well.

But is that new? These turf wars, is that new? Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. But I think there's something to be said about the recent spiral. And you've heard conversation about the free nature of movement of cars through our ports.

Did that just start last three years? No. Our ports have had issues with resources, issues with technology for a long time. Maybe now, to the degree that they've been tested with the increase in the type of installed in autos has exposed that much more, right? So there's definitely some new revelations

around some parts of the criminal activity, in terms of what I would say is young people being active. Some people will tell you, young people have always been committing crimes. Yes. But to be frank with you, I haven't seen the type of numbers in terms of the ages of young people and the degree of violence that I've seen in the last two to three years.

That's definitely changed. I'm very concerned. So when you ask the police why is this happening, particularly among young people disproportionately, what answers do you get back? The allure of the experience of crime. You hear that from both the experts and police who are part of that expert group.

The profit that comes from it. Many young people are seeking out the money that comes from walking up to your driveway or walking up to a parking lot and using technology to remove cars that are now easy to steal. I mean, people have done their best to protect their autos, and they still get removed from your driveway. Some cars have been stolen two, three times.

Let me jump in on that, though. It's one thing to use one of those remote starters and steal a car at 2 o'clock in the morning out of somebody's driveway. It's another thing for a 16-year-old to put a gun up to somebody's head while they're driving down the street, maybe stopped at a stoplight, and say,

get out of your car right now, or I'm going to blow your brains out. Who does that? Well it comes to who's convincing them to participate to begin with and what they're being sold. You and I maybe you know been to journalism school and we were taught by certain professors that might influence a style of journalism that we bring to the field. I think that same thing applies or concept applies to young people. The people who are convincing them to get involved are probably selling them a tale of that. Look, when you do get caught for these crimes, this is what happens.

This is what has happened to people before you in terms of the minimum sentence is you're a young person, the penalties are lower. It's not going to follow you throughout your life. They've been misled to believe that that is the case, true and true, where in fact, this type of activity can scar you in many different ways. You can end up being killed. You can end up killing someone and having to live with that.

And so I don't think their understanding of the implications are as clear as they need to be. And how do we counter that? How do we talk to our young people who are more than likely the ones who are highest at risk of committing these kind of acts? How do we connect with them and work with them to try to steer them away from this lifestyle?

I think we have a big challenge on our hands as a community and it goes more than just law enforcement. It comes down to a social context issue that we also have to look at as well. You mentioned that Toronto and Peel a moment ago are some of the most egregious examples of what we've been talking about. But as you look across the whole greater Toronto and Hamilton area, is it the same everywhere? Pretty much.

Pretty much, right? It's unfortunate. Many communities, if you ask the police chiefs in the top brass and officers on the front lines, it's the same issue, right? And there's been much of a call. You've noticed this, and you might ask this question here at the table, is that you've seen things around like bail reform. What will that do?

What will reverse onus do to people's behavior when you have to step up and prove that you should be released versus the crown proving that you should stay in custody? But I feel that it will still come down to the judges and the judges' judgment on whether or not you are a fit candidate for that. How do we manage our release programs

from the anchor bracelets and certain types of monitoring? You've seen offenses recently where people simply know that police are closing in and they jump on a flight and leave the country. You've seen offenses where people have anchor monitors and bracelets and they cut them off and they leave. So-

I think you cut off an ankle monitor. I thought the whole point was you couldn't. People do, people do. And there's been cases of people that have been charged for serious offenses here, who are parts unknown. And so our system isn't perfect. And it needs a shake up.

And we need to form solutions here. And I think many of these issues are deeper than we might observe just from the surface. And the organized crime players are getting really adept at kind of flexing and changing according to the times where they might allocate some of their attention to certain types of crimes to profit from that for some time. And once police jam into that area and try to snuff them out,

they switch the agenda to something else. You've seen that with auto thefts. Where did this spiral come from? Where we went from a couple thousand thefts to now Ontario exceeding 30,000 plus thefts in total. I think I was at the auto summit and that was kind of the number somewhere near 40,000 cars stolen in our community. So, you know, Argonis Crime is becoming very smart to the issues.

They're right there with us and that's the unfortunate truth. I'll pick up on the way. We've talked about auto, but you also mentioned bail here, so let me pick up on both. You said we need new solutions. One of the solutions that Doug Ford, the premier, thinks he's brought forward is he's appointed a new minister, the guy from Brampton, Graham McGregor,

who is in charge of auto theft and bail reform. Now, I see you smiling already. Does that mean that people are not holding out much hope that this is going to create any ripples out there, or what? No instant solutions. No instant solutions. Look at the tool chuck industry. I'm just going to jam that as a sidebar,

because I think it fits. Where you look at their change regulation, they say, listen, you have to get a criminal record background check. You have to do all of these tests and so forth to now get certified. There's many people in the industry whose livelihood has been cut off because it's going to affect those, right?

You have people who might have offenses from the past, who have now been told that they no longer qualify. There's all of these things. So there's ripple effects of everything we do, both negative and positive, right? So while it might weed out bad actors that we need to climb down on, it's also going to affect men and women out there who need to drive tow trucks to earn a living, who might have some form of a troubling past,

but haven't been involved in any activity for a long time. And now they're facing the wave of change, right? The same thing with bail reform. I think if you say that we need to keep people inside our jails longer, and we need to keep them there because we're protecting people who are outside, yeah, there's an argument for that. Well, there's also the place. That's what the premier says.

But there's a flip side of that coin where you could end up with a situation where someone who is inside a custom. First of all, it's not going to cost us any less. So we're all going to have to pay for this somehow. Incarceration costs just as much as monitoring someone who is out on bail, and maybe even more, if we're to check the numbers.

Don't quote me on that. But where we go and look at this and say it is the solution, as the chief of appeal always says, we just cannot see it as a panacea for this problem. Bail reform will not fix our problems. It might cause an ebb of the flow of violence, where some people might consider before they do certain things, because they know that it will be harder for them

to be released. But I think some of the people who are stone-cold, hard criminals will continue to commit these crimes. Well, I've seen this Graham McGregor, the new minister for auto theft and bail reform. I've seen him give speeches in which he says, you watch out. We're coming for you. Now, does the street for auto theft and bail reform, I've seen him give speeches in which he says, you watch out, we're coming for you.

Now, does the street think that this guy is legit or is more bark and not too much bite? I would say the streets don't even know who that guy is. The people who know who that person is are the people who might vote or the people who pay attention, like yourself and me. Outside of that, activities on the ground level, in terms of operations and people, we see what we see last week

coming over York region, increases, increases, increases. What does that tell us? The people who, the bad actors, the people who carry out this kind of activity aren't paying attention. If anything, they're activated and escalated. OK, in our last couple of minutes here, when I talk to people about this kind of thing, I hear people say it's post-COVID malaise,

it's economy, which is tough for too many people, it's social media, which puts all of these issues on steroids and jacks people up. How accurate is all of that from your travels? It's all in the bag, isn't it? I think it all plays. We cannot discount any of those things that you mentioned. I think they all have a role to play.

We've heard of young people seeing things and wanting to be a part of it and joining groups where they feel they belong because of that social atmosphere. You've seen situations where the hardships that you and I and many of us in this room and across this country face during the COVID pandemic have left some ripple effects, some scars there. And some people are trying to recover from that, both financially and socially in many respects. So I think when we sit down and we start looking at the issues, we could sit in a hot button room

and just keep listing them. They're there. And I think as a community, we do know what some of these are and the problem is that from a government perspective there's no quick fix. They have tried with many legislative changes from the tow truck legislation to bill reform legislation and those are coming down the pipeline and I did ask the chief have you seen the the effects of

this on the front line and he he said, listen, we welcome them, they're coming on board, but we're still seeing these increases. That's Jason Miller, he's the crime reporter for the Toronto Star for his first but surely not his last appearance here on the agenda. Jason, thanks for your time. Thanks for having me.