The Agenda with Steve Paikin (Audio) - Why Marit Stiles Wants To Be Ontario's Premier

Episode Date: February 20, 2025

Marit Stiles has been the leader of the Ontario NDP and Official Opposition for two years, but this is her first general election. What do voters need to know about what she has on offer before they go to the polls on February 27? How does she plan to unseat Doug Ford's Progressive Conservatives? And how does the NDP distinguish itself from Bonnie Crombie's Liberals? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Renew your 2.0 TVO with more thought-provoking documentaries, insightful current affairs coverage, and fun programs and learning experiences for kids. Regular contributions from people like you help us make a difference in the lives of Ontarians of all ages. Visit tvo.me slash 2025 donate to renew your support or make a first-time donation and continue to discover your 2-point TVO. Marat Stiles has been the leader of the Ontario NDP and official opposition for two years, and she's now trying to do something that only one leader of her party has ever done, become Premier.

Let's find out how it's going as we welcome Marat Stiles, who's also seeking personal re-election in the Toronto riding of Davenport. Welcome back to TVO. Thank you it's great to be here. Good to see you again. You just did your first ever leaders debate this past week so why don't we start there. How did it go? I enjoyed it actually. I will say I think it went quite well. I know it's kind of chaotic sometimes when you're watching it to see how you know there's not a lot of time to discuss each issue which is frustrating but you know what I think it went quite well. I know it's kind of chaotic sometimes when you're watching it to see how, you know, there's not a lot of time to discuss each issue, which is frustrating. But you know what, I think it went well.

I did what I wanted to do, which is to introduce myself, frankly, to a lot of Ontarians who might not know me yet and to explain a little bit about what our plan is and why people can trust me to address the issues that are, I think, on people's minds right now. How annoying is it that you feel you need to still introduce yourself to people even though you've had that job for two years? Well, look, you know, that's the reality, right? I mean, I think a lot of people are not that tuned into politics these days. And I think that's unfortunate, right? And I'm hoping that what I can do is actually bring back some hope and interest in

politics and government, trust in government again. I mean that's a big thing for me. That's a big reason why I ran to be the leader of the NDP and the official opposition. So you know there's that but also I will say just generally in an election, as you know all too well, people are just starting to wake up to the fact that there's election happening at all. I've been joking about it this week but it's actually quite true. I think people are out you know, they're shoveling their driveways all across the province and they're seeing, you know, the half-buried sign and going, oh, is there an election happening right now?

So, you know, that's part of the challenge that all of us face right now, I think, in this election. There are very few election signs out now compared to previous years. Yeah. I mean, you just can't get them in the ground for starters. That's right, yeah. This is going to sound like a dumb question, and I don't mean it to be. But who was your chief rival in that debate?

Oh, Doug Ford. Absolutely, 100%. And he's my focus in this entire campaign. Look, we are the official opposition. We have more seats than any of the other parties. And we have seats in every corner of this province. And my focus in this election is flipping blue seats to orange. I want to form government as I've said before you know a few weeks ago Doug Ford quit his job as premier I'm

applying for that job and and my focus is entirely on defeating the Conservatives. I ask because Bonnie Cromby the Liberal leader had a rather unusual closing statement. And because it was a closing statement, you didn't get a chance to respond to it in real time at the debate. So we'll remind everybody what she said and then I'll give you a chance to respond to it here. Sheldon, roll it if you would. I'm asking those of you who voted NDP in the last election to vote Liberal, to vote for a government that will fix our health care system

and to get you a family doctor. And together, we can change government. What did you make of that appeal? Well, honestly, I think it tells you a lot about where the liberals are at right now. They are trying to form an official party in the legislature again. That's kind of their path.

I was saying yesterday, I think Doug Ford quit the election and Bonnie Cromby quit the fight. My focus is on defeating Doug Ford. And I will say also, you know, I think it's unfortunate a little bit because I really do believe that as elected leaders, we should earn your vote. And I think that's a very cynical attempt to convince people that they have to settle for something

that they don't have to settle for. I talk about healthcare, for example, and I would say the liberals invented hallway healthcare. We saw that in 2018. Doug Ford said he was gonna change it. He came in, poured gasoline on the situation. Now we have a massive crisis. Well, the NDP, we invented public health care

in this province, right, in this country. And so we can be trusted to actually deliver the change that people need and to fix our health care system. I want to earn that vote from people. I think it's very cynical to try something else. And I think that people that vote from people. I think it's very cynical to try something else. And I think that people will see through it. And I'll tell you, I'm feeling it on the ground.

I'm feeling a little bit of electricity out there. Even before the debate, we're seeing a lot of momentum out there in communities across the province, particularly where we have to defeat conservatives. Tell me one blue seat you think it can flip to orange. I'll tell you one that was on my mind just this past week, Sault Ste. Marie.

I will tell you, and there's a number of others, but Sault Ste. Marie, look, they elected a cabinet minister a little while back. He's not running again, but I'll tell you something else. He never fixed things in that community. 10,000 people lost their family doctor overnight in Sault Ste. Marie. And our candidate, Lisa Bezoa Allen, is a really well-known city councilor and community champion.

And I think people in Sault Ste. Marie, like in many other writings around this province, are done with the conservatives. And they're ready for some positive change and some leadership that they can trust. If the people don't want to vote for Doug Ford, they have at least three options, three major options. They've got you, they've got the liberals,

they've got the Greens. Why should they pick you over those two, and indeed more of the other smaller parties that don't have recognition right now? Well, I think I've proven myself in the legislature. I've taken on Ford. I've defeated him on the Green Belt and other big issues like that.

But I think also I'm speaking to the issues and I have a plan to address the real issues that people are dealing with right now. After seven years of Doug Ford, life is tough right now. We're the only party that is really tackling issues like affordability. I'm going to fight rising costs. I'm also going to hire doctors and fix the health care crisis. But I'm also going to talk about really building affordable homes and bringing back things like rent control.

None of the other parties are touching on that. I don't understand why because the people that I meet, these are their number one concerns. So I think we have a very credible plan. I think I've proven myself to be a very reasonable leader and somebody that people can trust. And I think I bring a lot of new energy and new ideas. There is a home court advantage to being the premier. You can call the election when you want. You can kind of go wherever you want.

This premier has gone to Washington. You can get kind of lucky in as much as Donald Trump can act like a horse's ass and put an issue on your plate that's going to give you a bit of an advantage. How frustrating is it to try to run for premier under those circumstances? Well, I mean, look, Doug Ford, I think—and when I talk to Ontarians, people know this, right? He called this election in the middle of winter a snap election, thinking that he could pull one over on Ontarians, I truly believe that. And in the middle of winter, you know, when it's like you said, it's hard to put up an election sign, right?

So he knew what he was doing and he thought he could hide behind the threats of Donald Trump. But I'll tell you this, I think people know who Doug Ford is. First of all, he made it pretty clear. He 100% supported Donald Trump, even after Donald Trump brought in those tariffs on aluminum and steel back in 2018. Even though he threatened our sovereignty, who we are as a nation, during the election campaign in the United States, he still supported him 100%. I think we know who he is, and I think that Ontarians know that they can't trust him to really fight for the jobs.

I mean look, I think he's going to make choices and he's going to throw some industries and some sectors under the bus. I'm going to fight for every single job. I'm going to make sure that we're tariff proof in the future. We cannot allow ourselves to be as weak as we are right now. And I'm going to build up our communities and our people so that we can stand up against something like Donald Trump. The conventional wisdom, though, is that if this is an election about tariffs, it favors Ford.

That's just the conventional wisdom. You can tell me it's wrong, but that's the conventional wisdom. If the election were, for example, about health care or education or climate change or housing or some of those other things, that would be more favorable to the opposition parties. How do you break through when people at the moment seem to have only enough bandwidth to think about Trump and tariffs? Well, I think, first of all, that what I'm hearing from people is that they're actually very concerned about issues like the cost of things, rising grocery costs, rising rent. As we've talked about the healthcare crisis is very real for so

many people across this province. So I actually, you know, cost of housing, I think these are actually the things that are top of mind for people. Doug Ford thinks he can scare people into thinking that it's only about the tariffs, but I always say this, you know, it's kind of like, you know, what's only about the tariffs. But I always say this. It's kind of like, what's going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back? Well, Doug Ford's Ontario right now, life is so hard. We've got a lot of straws on the back of the camel already. We can't take much more.

And I think people understand that. Who knows what Donald Trump's going to do in the end to us? But we need to tariff proof our economy and our communities. That means we actually also have to look out for people. We have to make sure that they have the health care they need, that we're handling the cost of everything. I am, I'm going to say I'm very proud of our program, our grocery rebate program that we're proposing because we're actually going to put some money back in people's pockets to

help cover the cost of groceries. And I'm not talking about putting this money, by the way, in Galen Weston's pocket. I'm talking about putting it in the pockets of lower and middle income people. But that's the kind of thing that you know you really have to be thinking about that when you're facing something like we're about to face potentially. But you also need to stop making decisions like Doug Ford has made to frankly give jobs and opportunities away to American companies instead of Canadian jobs and Canadian opportunities. How do you tear of proof an economy as big as Ontario's? Well, I mean, you know, we are absolutely, we will continue to always have an important trade relationship with the United States.

I don't want to, you know, gloss over that. But we need to build on other relationships that we have out there with democratic nations around the world. And I mean, I look at Donald Trump and we all see what he's doing is picking us all off one by one. So we have other friends. I think we do need to address some of the interprovincial issues and barriers that exist to trade. I think we need to invest in Ontario industry, in Ontario production.

Again, I referenced it just now, but it was only a few years ago that Doug Ford gave away a massive contract for the Ontario line to a U.S. company, I mean Hitachi, but to produce those in the United States. They should have been produced in Thunder Bay. These are jobs and opportunities that should be here. This is our money. So we need to make sure that we're also, any procurement opportunities are going to Canadian,

Ontario jobs and companies. There was a time in this province, not that long ago, when basically every union backed the NDP. And those days are gone. A lot of the private sector unions have been picked off by the progressive conservatives for a variety of reasons. You've still got the public sector unions backing you. But the private sector unions aren't,

or at least a lot of them aren't. Yeah, I don't know. I'm going to correct you on that one, I think. OK, well, a lot of them aren't. You know, they've... I mean, I think, like, look, I think a lot of the trades often do align with the sitting government, so I understand that.

Steelworkers, the entire province, is backing. This is one of the biggest unions in the world. Private sector unions backing us everywhere. And folks like Unifor are kind of, it's riding by riding I would say, but look at the end of the day, we have the backing of most of those unions. And we are not only just seeing it on paper,

those folks are coming out. They're helping us in writings across the province. And I mean, I'm honestly, like, when I go to a ride-in, I see teachers and nurses and PSWs and childcare workers and steelworkers and autoworkers coming out to knock on doors in the middle of winter because they know that we cannot afford four more years of this.

I'm super proud. And they know that we're the party that will always be there with them no matter what. On the picket line, bringing forward the most progressive labor legislation, that's what needs to happen. Are you not saying something though, to for example the electrical workers

or the construction workers from Liuna, or Liuna, however they pronounce it. They pronounce it both ways actually. Yes. Is there something you're not saying to them this time that they are accustomed to hearing in the past and that's why you didn't get their endorsement? You know what, like I said, I think you know some of those unions have always often, most often,

support governing parties. I understand why but it doesn't really change anything for me because I'll tell you what, Steve, I'm still going to build the infrastructure. I'm going to invest in the facilities, the training facilities that those workers need. I know those workers. My riding I think has the largest concentration of LIUNA members in the country actually. I know those folks. I really appreciate the work they do and they're essential. I'm going to continue. When I'm elected Premier and we have an NDP government, we'll invest in those industries, we'll make sure those jobs

remain here, and I think we'll be bringing in better labor legislation to protect them as well. We are one riding away from a riding that does not now have an NDP candidate. This is Eglinton Lawrence just north of us. The NDP candidate decided at the last minute to drop out. She said, I don't have a chance to win this riding. I don't want to pull votes away from a candidate who can potentially beat Doug Ford and the conservative in that riding,

so I'm dropping out, with not enough time for you to replace her. It got my feeble little brain wondering, why don't you and the liberals and the greens have a non-aggression pact in more than just one riding in this province, more strategically marshal your resources so that the anti-Ford vote isn't split three ways, and maybe you have a better chance to defeat them?

Well, look, I mean a couple things. One is that that was very disappointing. We did not have any notice of that. And I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed for the voters of Eglinton-Lorentz, because I know a lot of those folks. It's near my riding. I know a lot of those folks. And there's a lot of people there who want to vote MDP.

Maybe 10%. Maybe 10%. But you know, and that could have changed. But I'll just say this. I don't think that, there's and I've said this on the opening day of the campaign there are things that liberal governments even conservative governments in the past have done that I agree with right like I loved full-day kindergarten I think it's a great thing

but I don't think that the Liberal Party under this current liberal leader is the party that shares the values of most Ontarians that I'm meeting. And I think or most certainly people have vote NDP and even people who voted a liberal in the past. I mean this is a party and a leader who have said that their party, their previous government spent too much on health care, on child care, has said that they want to move their party to the right. This is to where I just don't see Ontarians there.

So there's no difference between Crombie and Ford in your view? I think there's a, I mean I think that, I'm not sure if they know who they are right now, to be honest. And I think that in Ontario right now there is a clear choice. There has been for the last few elections, frankly. We always always you know come out ahead of where people think we are going to. We're always the underdog. We're used to being that. But I think there's a real opportunity in this

election. I've seen saying this from the beginning you know Doug Ford thought he was gonna pull one over on people. But actually I think people are starting to wake up and see this as an opportunity to change things because most people know we cannot we cannot continue on like this and I think that the liberals are not the party that best represents Ontarians right now in this province. I think that the ideas that they're sharing just don't seem to be connecting from what I can see to the things that people are prioritizing. Like I'll give you another good example, rent. You know, a lot of people in Ontario rent their homes. I think we're the only party that is talking at all about things like rent control or how

we save people's homes when they rent. And I just can't understand why anybody would miss that opportunity to try to save people from losing their homes. I mean, this is why we're seeing growing encampments in every corner of this province. I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but I'll just say this. Every time I write a column saying if the anti-Ford parties were more strategic in the way they, for example, divided up the map of Ontario. Mike Schreiner was in that chair last week. He said, don't look at me.

I'm only running, you know, my hardest fights in this race are all against conservative-held writings. I'm not taking on Marat and Bonnie in their writings. Every time I write a column about that, there is a lot of uptake. There are a lot of people out there, for example, who don't want Ford back and wish you three progressive parties would get your acts together in order to have a better chance of making that happen.

What would you say to that? Well, I mean, I would say first of all, what I say to folks who approach me about this, which is that we don't have an electoral system that works that way. I wish we did. You know, I believe in a different electoral system, you know, Steve. And I would like to have a system where, but so what I say to people is, you know Steve? And I would like to have a system where, but so what I say to people is, you know, we never change anything unless we vote with what we believe in. So don't settle for the thing you think is gonna get you

somewhere it hasn't managed to in the last little while. You know, make your politicians earn it with the ideas that we put forward, with the vision that we have. To me, that's the best way to get what you want out of our electoral system. Again, I would love a system that worked a different way. It doesn't tend to work this way. It tends to work right now in a system that we elect a certain way, and then we work together as we need to. And I've been very good at working with others, by the way. I like to, I play well in the sandbox. And I think we have opportunities there. But the way our electoral system works, it doesn't really serve us that way.

This is my favorite question for you. And I've asked you this question before. So we're going to do it again, just because, I don't know, you may have a different answer this time. We got a minute left here. We've had 43 elections in the province of Ontario, 41 have chosen liberals or conservatives to win. The NDP won one, the United Farmers of Ontario won one back in 1919. For whatever reason, people tend not to consider the NDP when they think about who they want to be government. What's the one thing you can say to people to make them reconsider that? I would say I think it's about trust. Who can you trust? And I would say that we've seen the others, I would say, break their promises, not live

up to their commitments. We haven't even talked about it in this episode, but we have a government that is mired in scandal and deception. I mean, if there was ever a government that was had I think lost a lot of people's trust it should be this conservative government. So I would say it's about trust. I think you need to look at who you think can actually change things. We've tried the other guys. I think my ideas, our ideas are solid. Our plan is solid. New Democrat parties that have governments

that have been elected many many times in the West have delivered extremely fiscally responsible conscientious governments. BC is actually building four times the housing that we're building here in the province of Ontario. Manitoba has managed to, you know, balance the books and still actually make some significant moves on healthcare and addressing the healthcare crisis and so much more. We can do the same thing here in Ontario.

And I think I have the team and the vision to get it done. You sure you want to use that expression, get it done? Yeah, okay, I'll take that back. I will be the government that is on your side and the Premier on your side. How about that one? There we go. Okay. That seems more on-brand. Yeah, yeah. Okay. That's Marge Stiles, leader of the Ontario NDP, and as I say to all the leaders who come in here,

stay safe on the campaign trail and good luck on election day. Thank you very much.