The Amelia Project - Alan Burgon on penguins, art, love and stories

Episode Date: July 27, 2026

A very special guest in Maty's One More Cocoa podcast studio today... it's Alan (aka Arthur) Burgon!  The focus of this conversation is the episode Maine Moepirt Arthur, so if you haven't caught up on Season 5 yet, maybe wait with listening to this, to avoid spoilers. Alan talks about finding The Interviewer's backstory, his voice, his relationship with Alvina and Kozlowski, the first time the character used the f-word, and so much more.  It's a fascinating conversation, and because this is One More Cocoa, expect detours and digressions about ducks and penguins, as well as cameos by Maty's cat and Alan's son (you'll have to watch the video version on Patreon for those) Sockrates also makes a brief appearance, which is a good reminder that our live shows (and screenings) in London are now just a few weeks away! Get you tickets for Laplace's Demon and Delivery After Dark at https://theatreship.co.uk and if you can't come to London, the shows will be available to stream here on Patreon for members of all paid Patreon tiers (or you can purchase livestream tickets here) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Congratulations! You've reached the... No, sorry, but if you're hearing this, we're closed. For summer. Yes, and no. It's not what you think. We're not sipping iced cocoa in the Bahamas. No, not this time. We're... well, we're actually spending summer on the Thames. Yes, on a 100-year-old cargo barge that's faked its death and come back as a floating theatre. So, if your demise is urgent, we are not in the office. But you can track us down.

can track us down on theatreship, which is moored in Canary Wharf in London. I'll be the one sporting a dashing red bow tie with skullprint. Go to the googly and book tickets for the Amelia Project Live Show in London. A new life awaits. Join the Amelia Project team as they bring audio fiction to the Thames this summer aboard London's Theatre Ship. There will be three shows, two screenings, a Q&A with an audio drama, academic from Bucharest. It's going to be an incredibly exciting time. Go to ameliapodcast.com

and click on live events for in-person or live stream tickets. See you aboard. This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result, less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandums that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. Hello, dear Amelia listeners, we're popping up here with a little surprise release. You may or may not know that there's an Amelia Project companion podcast called One More Coco, it's hosted by Marty Patsyval,

in which they discuss individual episodes or certain themes with friends of the show and more recently members of the team. So there was a recent episode with Ostein and the latest episode is with Alan Bergen, also known as the interviewer. Alan isn't just a great actor, he's such a creative and insightful guy. I really loved listening to his chat with Marty. So I thought we'd share the episode here on the main feed. and if you're interested, you can hop over to the one more cocoa feed afterwards to listen to other conversations. So this episode, it touches on the big interviewer origin story in season five, Maine Moaput after. So if you haven't caught up on season five yet, I recommend you don't listen to this until you have.

Also, I should mention that these episodes are originally video podcast episodes that we host on Patreon. So if you want to see Alan and Marty's lovely faces, as well as a cameo by Marty's cat, and the appearance of a sock puppet, yes, sock puppet, you'll have to head over to patreon.com slash amelia podcast for the video version. You don't have to become a paying member. You can simply sign up for free to see the video version. But if you do become a paying member from just $5, you get all our regular episodes early. For example, you can listen to the new Amelia's Appraisals episode right away. It's already there now. And also, you get automatic live stream access to the three shows that we're performing in London next week. These are interactive shows.

They're kind of multi-narrative shows in which you get to decide which branch of the story we go down. We have an interactive voting system which lets you be part of the shows. whether you're there in person or online. So, yeah, you can either purchase a physical ticket and come to see us perform live on the 4th, 5th and 6th of August on Theatreship in London, or you can purchase an online streaming ticket. But if you are going to stream it, the best value is becoming a patron. And I really mean it when I say that every time a new member signs up, it makes us so, so happy. and it really does help us to keep creating.

So if you enjoy our stories, then please do consider signing up as a patron. We could really, really do with your help right now. Anyway, more info on the show is becoming a patron and so on ameliapodcast.com, but I feel like I've been hogging the mic for long enough. So let's pass it over to Alan and Marty. And I hope that you enjoy this episode. Congratulations. Congratulations. Congratulations. I was like, what did I do?

Uyxs is, that's wonderful. Yes, yes. I mean... I'm on the same page now. It takes a while sometimes, but I'm there. I caught up. That's okay, that's okay. Still, you know that PIP is going to leave that in, right? Yeah, right. So congratulations, like, what? Congratulations? Was I supposed to know what was happening? here? No. Good, because I have no clue.

That's good, that's good. That's a fun part. Yeah, right. Congratulations. You have not quite reached your media project because this podcast is certainly happening. If you continue, however, there's still

no way back because here we discuss the plots, the holds on the plot, the patchwork done to fix set plot, or the holds in it, depending on the day. And we discuss all things, Amelia, with a healthy dose of nudiness

and at least one guest each episode. And of course, one of the guests that is part of this podcast every single time is my cat. But she already had her cameo and we started filming. So now everybody else, please say hello to the second

important guest of the episode. Do you want to introduce yourself, Alan? Yes. Hello, everyone. I am the second most important guest of today's episode. My name's Alan Bergen. I play the interviewer. And I'm very excited to be here to warm you all up for the main act, which is Matty's cat.

No, don't worry. You're actually the most important guest. It's okay. Oh, good. Then I need to rethink my entire game plan here. No, no, no. We're good. Oh, dear.

I'm sorry. I can also get to be a good. the cat back out. Maybe keep that Trump card for later when it gets really desperate. Okay, absolutely. I will. In case anyone is still confused, you are listening to the One More Coco podcast and I am your host, Marty, and I always said this intro needs work, but at this point, yes, I'm going to run with it and also I'm changing it up every single time anyway,

so what does it really matter? your fun fact of the day is that can I say that penguins are cute or are you going to run away then? No, you can say to me that penguins are cute. A tiny little feather just flew right in front of me. That was really weird. It was the penguin!

Right? Do you have the penguins hostage, Alan? Alan. That was just a bit weird right now. I mean, you're looking around like that? Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm just imagining like an entire wall and there's just like penguin standing there. I personally do find penguins quite cute.

I mean, they're a little bit smelly, but they're cute. Have you ever been able to like touch a penguin, like hug a penguin or something? I probably, like in Vienna's zoo in Schoenbrunner Tiergarten, the penguins are on this little corner section and if I was to lean in I could probably touch one. I might not be allowed back into the zoo, but I could probably reach. But I took a video one once. There is a reel on the Amelia podcast's Instagram, if you scroll down, of a penguin chasing a bubble in the water. That is so cute. I got to look that up.

Because it was just, it was so perfect. Some kid, I think, had like, they'd blown bubbles, and it had just floated over and was hovering over the water just at the edge of where they are. And it was chasing the bubble. It was penguins and bubbles. It was perfect. Perfect immediately.

I mean, then one bear, you do need to show up to that year garden in full interview. your costume with a cup of cocoa and just like posing in front of the penguins like I have conquered my fear. In closure, that's the word I was trying to search for twice and it didn't come to me. Did you notice that I just kind of hesitated for a second and moved swiftly on? I noticed, but my first language is German. So I always just assume everybody else makes. knows English better than me anyway. I've been living in a German-speaking country now for 16 years.

It does happen to me more frequently than I like that the German word is very much at the front of my mind and I have no clue what the English word is. That happens to me the other way around. Do you sometimes start speaking in the language without like noticing which language you speak? Maybe. There are a few phrases, there are a few words that I always kind of say in German.

Yeah. Because like, genoa is, you know, it's like for, you know, it's like, I guess the equivalent is like, you know, sure or right or yeah, yeah. There's a very specific feeling attached. It's a similar like the German word, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chia. You cannot translate the word tier. It is the response to the world is ending. We're out of bread. Oh, it just started raining. And the sun is collapsing. Yeah. I mean, in Scotland we have a substitute word, which is basically that and it's just, ah. You know, it's kind of the same thing. It's like that. It's like, we're out of bread. Ah, the sun just exploded. You know, it's interchangeable. I mean, that's very good. I like these kind of like little interjections like that.

But it sometimes happens to me too that like I talk to my girlfriend on the phone and I'm just randomly speaking German. and sometimes she doesn't notice because there are sometimes words that are very similar and so she just accepts it and moves on and I'm just like wait sometimes of course it's something so specific that she's basically just like huh yeah yeah

so I'm just like wait anyway but speaking of Vienna The episode that we want to talk about today is, of course, the main Moffert Arthur episode, which is the very, very, very long-awaited interviewer backstory that people have been waiting for since season one, and that has been, in a way, teased since season one.

At least it feels like, I mean, we have the whole thing in Siri, your middle name is Arthur. So we've always been kind of like, I don't know, slightly, aware there's something there and then everything in season five was building up to the whole backstory topic and then suddenly we

have it. How did you feel like after all these years getting through that backstory point? I'm surprised like I have been throughout this entire process of being involved with the media project because I'm not even sure if

I don't think all of this was planned at the beginning because I think for all of us, for Pippen-Oisstein as well, they weren't sure how successful it was going to be. I'm sure maybe somewhere in the back of their head, it was like there was this world that was already created that they're drawing everything from. You know, they have wonderful imaginative minds. But I still question it's like,

was that like a breadcrumb that was planned from the same? start or did you just when you were looking back think that would be amazing to turn into that? You know, it's, it's, it's, it was a very exciting. I'm supposed to be the timeline apologist. So of course, I'm supposed to say it was plenty entire time. But let's be honest, it probably wasn't. If we live in, in a universe where time is just another dimension that we experience in a linear, linear fashion, you know, it's, you know, but it's all there anyway, then yes, one could argue that it's all planned. It all runs exactly the way it's supposed to.

But I also think that they just put so many wonderful things into the first couple of seasons that when they were looking back to tie it altogether, it just fell into place so wonderfully well. I mean, how was it with the petting zoo and time? Oh, I don't even know the full quote, but like maybe if I asked, really nicely. Pip is going to like insert that that that whole Melissa Mencken quote about what time is like right here. Yeah. Maybe we'll see. Maybe. Maybe let's let's see. How long have you been dreaming? I don't know. I've lost track of time. We have to stop thinking of time is this rigid thing that only goes in one direction. It's less of a river and

more of a landscaped car park with a Minoan temple in a petting zoo. Yeah. But no, I was extremely excited for that episode. And when I read through it, it's, because it's, it's, the way that the guy's right is, you know, sometimes you'll get an episode, which is just completely wacky off the rails comedy. It's just, you know, it's like, where did this come from? And then there are other episodes where there is so much sentiment and,

it just really digs into the the matter of the backstory of what made these characters who they are and for me, Maine Moore apart was one of those episodes. You know, there's a bit of silliness about it as well. But I think that is fitting. I feel like

especially in that episode, there has to be some of that utter silliness. Otherwise, it wouldn't be an episode about the interviewer. Yeah, and you need to set it up. Yeah. I think, you know, but I think they did a really wonderful job of setting up that silliness and setting up this one-of-a-kind relationship that Itobal and Arthur end up having. Yeah. And you just mentioned that there are like silly episodes and kind of serious episodes.

Do you have like a favourite, absolutely? bad shit and sane silly episode. I always go back to Bob, like from season one. Yeah. I just love that line. I am Bob and it was so much fun to just burst out laughing all the time in the studio. I mean, yeah, I get that. You know what?

Something I once did when my students, back when I was teaching tutorials in uni, when they were honestly, dead on their feet. They were exhausted beyond the leave. And we had a little bit of time. And I actually started playing the beginning of Bob just to get them to lighten up a little bit. And you got every single person in that classroom giggling. Yeah, wonderful. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that one always comes back. And what was the one, the battle, the one set in Norway with the Vikings? The Battle of Sticklestad? Yes, Battle of Sticklestad.

Yeah. That has got to be one of the episodes that I have personally laughed the most during recording. It was just hilarious. It was so much fun. It was fun. I mean, we said that before it, like, this is one of the episodes that probably was, like, written and, like, recorded the fastest. Because it was, like, it was such a wrong. It was so funny.

And I get that. I fully get that. Yeah. So do you have a favorite serious episode apart, of course, from the season five finale episodes? Because I feel like those don't count. Yeah. I mean, Raven was a really wonderful episode. Just like a delving into human connection.

and what it is like to be human it felt like. It was really nice. Curtin as well. That moment where the guys all come back together. You know, there was genuine emotion in that take. There was no acting involved because I'd also been on this journey with the interviewer, you know, being away from all of his friends and not knowing what was happening. and that was that was the first time in Golovin

where the interviewer says fuck I think I think yeah I remember that I listened to that and there was like what yeah because it came out at this moment where and I'm sure I said this in interviews before because I'm sure it's come up before but this was one of those moments where

we'd done a take and you know Pippanoist and we're like, yeah, we don't really have that same kind of silliness with the interviewer at this section, you know, maybe we bring a little bit more of that in, which I completely understand. But I was like, yeah, I hear everything you're saying, but there is something about this where it just feels like he's not like this in this moment. This is, you know, his friends are in. I don't have a fucking clue. Yeah.

Yeah. His friends are in danger. He literally has nothing left to offer. He can't think of anything. and it's like this is that is the first time ever throughout the whole of the Amelia project where it felt like he just

he genuinely did not know what to do and it was like it just came out it was just that moment I feel like where he lost it for the first time yeah yeah yeah and it was and I was super spontaneous I remember that part but

if you had to say like was it fun to just play this whole med-lose or that you also really sit there like, whoa, where do we go from here? All of the above. Yeah, I think it's always fun. Yeah. It doesn't really matter what the, yeah. Yes, yes. All of the above.

It was both. And something that I noticed every single time, I like, we've listened to any of the Golovin episodes is that it feels like the interviewer and Golovin has this like slow descend into madness. We start out with, okay, it's okay, I can get out of here. And then at the end, when he's talking first to Alexandria and then to Hiroshi, in both of these ways, like, especially when he's talking to Alexandria about the truth serum. And he, like, literally blackmailed her in that moment to get that. how was it for you to basically go down this almost like dark interviewer path?

It was brilliant because in actual fact when we first started discussing it Pip and Einstein envisioned the interviewer being much darker anyway. This is kind of why when you listen to the first few episodes, the tone of the voice is a little bit lower. It's not quite as wacky because we thought that the interview was going to be a much darker kind of character. It was kind of like a natural process through like how the character evolved and how the writing evolved over time that they kind of merged together to create how the interviewers now. I always think of it like Homer Simpson and The Simpsons as well.

When you listen to Homer's voice in the very first season, it's nothing like what it is even in season. three. You know, it's like it takes that while to kind of understand just who the character is. But what was so wonderful about that season where he was in Golovin is that that was the first time that we really kind of saw the kind of situations that the interviewer must have found himself in over the centuries. Yeah. That it's not the first time he's been in a situation like that. It's the first time for us that we are experiencing that character in that type of a situation. But knowing that he is also the kind of character who knows how to get himself out of these types of situations.

So you think that he knew from the beginning on that he would get out of it on his own? Or do you think he was like honestly afraid in between the others were going to come and they would have to either get out together or they wouldn't get? get out. I mean, I think that would kind of be like how anyone in a situation that would think, I'm sure he had his good days and his bad days. Sometimes, you know, it's like, I have it. I have the solution. And then that solution gets taken away from you. And then it's that, okay, I'm further down now than I was before. I'm one good idea less off than I was yesterday. But I think with everyone in stressful situations, it oscillates. Do you think that?

that even though he was planned to be a much darker character and then he wasn't, he still is kind of, but all of that silliness and kind of like these lighter aspects also overshadow it. So do you think that in a way all of this, he is a much darker character is like still true? Yeah, well no. Despite everything. Now we're digging into the things that if this was rehearsals for a play, I wouldn't say anything at all. Don't worry, you're just being recorded.

Yeah, right? It's just for everyone to hear. No, no, usually. It's just your opinion, what you think. No, no, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. No, no. Usually on principle, I don't answer questions like that because I don't like to make up people's minds for them.

You know, that is because it's... answer. No, no, I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm just, I'm just segueing in because it's you, these are the types of things that I usually don't say for my own characters. Okay, I'll get the popcorn. Yeah. Because usually when you do give these things out, it changes how people experience it because they've heard it from the actor that that is actually what is going on. Um, I, I, so when I've, as I've been performing this character, over the years, the character has surprised me all the time as well because the character has developed and it's kind of like his own person now. Anyway, I just put the suit on. But an interesting thought did occur to me and I don't even know if I actually made a decision or not, but the thought came to me that the sithiness is not even a cover-up.

It's just that there is so much darkness that he has seen and there's so much that he is capable of, that it is a choice to just be silly because it's more fun that way. Because life is more fun when you're being silly. But if the time comes where one needs to be dark, can he be dark? 100%. You don't live that long and live through what the interviewer has lived through without having the capacity for that as well. In a way, maybe that darkness is then also the price you pay.

for silliness maybe in a way that's a very interesting answer and I fully see what you mean I mean I fully got what you mean thank you for answering it

despite the reservations yeah it's just like I say if it was a play that hadn't been put up yet or if there was still the chance for people to think of it themselves then or if it would like to do with my partners in the play or in the film I usually keep all of these

things to myself because as soon as you mention it to your scene partner, it can sometimes alter the way they react to your character. But to be honest, there is so much going on in the immediate project that even if the other guys listen to this, they'll probably forget about it by the time we've done a few more episodes anyway, so it's fine. I mean, and the other thing is that we've been like with him for five days. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. At this point, Like I feel like his character has evolved and changed so much, but it's also always stayed true to himself. And I feel like every time we hear like one of this kind of like darker aspects, we just stick deeper into what true actually is. Yeah, absolutely.

That is something that I've always found super interesting because I do think that humor is a great way to deal with things. And I know we had that topic when I said and I talk, we had the same topic. to kind of like see the funny aspects in it because like you kind of have to. Yeah. And I like that. And I like that. Yeah, a coping mechanism. But also I feel like one of the most powerful things you can do is to look at everything that happened to you.

And somehow still find the humor in it. And somehow still find the strength to laugh, to create. In his case, especially. to collect these stories and listen to people. And I find that very admirable. Yeah. I think humor helps you take ownership over the situation. If you can look back and you can laugh

and you can be frivolous about something that has caused you deep discomfort or hurt, then you're basically saying, okay, I'm not going to let this own me anymore. I'm going to see it for what it was. It was a moment. It's gone. I'm here now.

We can laugh about it. It's fine. I mean, that sounds a lot like if that is the way that the interview also works, he probably laughs about his past lives quite a bit. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure, yeah. And I mean, we had Elvina laughing about the fact that the interviewer was a clumsy druid. Yeah. We know he had a staff. Do you think like do you have like a vision in your head about that whole thing?

Like do you like nothing super specific? Just like do you think like more Asterix and Obelix or more Dungeons and Dragons? What a great question. I would probably imagine that Arthur is the Asterix and Obelix character surrounded by Dungeons and Dragons. Yeah. It's just a mental image. I love that. And we're going to leave it at that mental image because I feel like everybody has to have a different mental image.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. I mean, when we, I mean, I have another very great question before I got, I get to another great question. But like, while we're at the silliness, do you think the interviewer in. to Domino's. Not the pizza chain. Well, I do know.

I do know. Wow, that's amazing. Do you think this is like one of the kind of like a laughing aspect he later on actually used? He was the one who's like, okay, that happened. It was horrible. But also it was kind of funny. So now I'm going to make this a whole thing and he just invented Domino's. Yeah.

Yeah. It's almost like the, yeah. Oh, well, Domi, that would be more kind of like Latin. I can just see this thing is like Domino. And it just kind of sticks. No. Yeah, it was originally called Domino. But the N became silent over the years.

And then at one point people just stopped writing it in the word. people at some point just like I'm going like oh yeah dummy knows and every single time he plays domy nose with anyone it's just like dummy no and it's like why are you pronouncing it like that

he's like I invented it or the way kind of the inflection you just gave it there is like someone asked what happened dummy knows you know as in Arthur is the dummy who knows what happened and then it just morphed over time.

Yeah, dummy knows what happened. Yep. So many possibilities. Oh my God, that is so funny. Amelia Project branded Dominoes. Yeah. That is a new merch idea. That is a genius merchandising idea.

They can be shaped like standing stones. Yeah. And they also all have markings. Yeah. For additional wobble. Yeah. Just to make it extra challenging. And you have like a board where basically the whole thing is like slightly off centre.

So you need to like move them without letting them fall over. Genius. Genius. I'm really good at inventing these things. Yeah. It's just like one merch idea after the other in this podcast. Yeah, yeah. I'm really good at this.

And the other thing is that have you ever tasted dandelion water? No, I haven't. I mean, I've drunk dandelion tea, of course, but like dandelion water, the way that it's made? No, I don't believe I have. Huh. Because I was wondering about that myself, because I was like, I know dandelion tea,

but I never heard of dandelion water. I do remember when we were recording that it sounded pretty good, and I wanted to try it. I mean, same now that I prepared for this episode, I was kind of just like, hmm. I mean, there is dandelion. outside. Yeah.

Yeah. I just have to... I'm not sure if... The thing is, I'm allergic to a lot of things. So I'm always just very hesitant about these things. I'm just like, am I allowed to do that? And the other thing is I would have to pluck them and make sure I don't like

accidentally pluck a duck. Like an actual duck? Yeah. Ah, okay. They hide in your grass, pretending to be weeds that are beneficial to your health? No, so fun fact,

if you step on my balcony and you look down, there's water. That is how close I live to the river. Like I literally like, I look down it's water. You sometimes have like wild canoe people. Well, they're not wild, but it's very random when you sit somewhere and you're like talking about something.

And you're like, who is doing a party down there? And it's just a bunch of canoes. Oh, wow. And there are a lot of ducks. There are some swans. Yeah, okay. There's some cranes sometimes. So basically, like, I live in the area of town where everything is filled with ducks.

And sometimes more hens as well. So basically, every time you, like, go to a, like, a piece of, like, a bit of grass or something. Some of the female ducks. blend in perfectly so you kind of sometimes have to be careful if there's like a duck kind of like curled up that you're not like

accidentally like going on the duck because they are like brown and if the grass is kind of you know like darkish green and sometimes it's actually difficult to see and they are so used to people they eat out of your hand

so they don't really run away they eat out of your hand yeah I was at FACAMSae. We had two Abashos over the weekend, and we went on the second day, because we were in the same hotel for two days in a row, so we went swimming at the lake. And all of a sudden, like, this group of ducklings

just started wandering out, like, through the people, like onto their picnic blankets and things. Yeah. Just wandering around, like, the mother duck is there just kind of, like, overseeing the whole operation. And, you know, like, going and making sure that the two troublemakers weren't doing something that weren't supposed to.

but then the others, they were just wandering around the people, just like looking for food. Cultural exchange. Yeah, it was amazing. No fear at all. Yeah. I mean, the ducks here are the same way. And they eat out of your hand.

They're just kind of just like, oh, num, num, num, num, num, num, you have sunflower. I love that. And so if you're, like, sitting down on the grass and you're suddenly just like, oh, there's a duck next to me. Yeah, yeah. Careful of glad I didn't sit on the duck. Oh, wow. Like, it really is that way.

And so every time. I'm kind of like on the grass there. I'm kind of just like looking. Yeah, yeah. So I was just like, no. Just don't get shocked. There was one woman a couple of days ago who got a fright when this little duckling ended up being basically on her dress and she jumped.

The duckling pooped. And then she had to take off her like net dress thing and put it to the side. Yeah, that makes sense. Ducklings do that a lot. Yeah, yeah. Don't scare them. you'll be fine. Yeah, I mean, at this point, I'm good friends with most of the ducks here.

They see me and then now I have food. Yeah, okay. That is, that is a situation. Nice. I'm known to every time I'm like, oh, I've had a shitty day. I'm going to sit down and feed the ducks. And sometimes that's, you know, every day a week. And then the ducks get very used to you.

Yeah, yeah. They're just like, oh, quack, quack, quack, quack, quack, I know you. So I can actually recommend that. Okay. Great. Off topic, again, as usual. Complete tangent. Yes.

Yes. Then I'm going to ask you some things actually about the recording session that we did. Because as far as I remember, we recorded this in Vienna, in person, all of us together. Mm-hmm. And some of the things that I remember is that you were asked. if there are any particularly loud parts in that section. And you just looked up completely deadpan and went, yes, I will scream.

Yeah. I made a note of that. And I also have a note of how at some point, hemi, in the most grave and deepest voice I have ever heard, goes, it is chicken day. It is chicken day Yeah Yeah

And these two notes Under each other Are the only notes I took During the Vienna recording session Yes I will scream Yes it is chicken day Yes I will scream

And it is chicken day Without the yes in front of it Yeah It was just Yes I will scream It is chicken day Okay I mean there's a new t-shirt right there

You know That could be a slogan For a new merch t-shirt yes I will scream it is chicken day but the chickens aren't actually screaming they are being hexed yes the chickens are being hexed yes it's only me who is screaming in the studio yes a little bit like a chicken but yes you didn't sound like a chicken don't worry yeah yeah you just sounded very scared yes good yes that that that that was the that was the idea behind it I'm sure yeah well um

I think anyone would scream if like there is suddenly just a headless chicken running around. Yeah, absolutely. I could imagine. Arthur certainly did. He wouldn't anymore. You know, he's experienced that now. Oh, he's seen like the headless chicken dancing to Mamma Mia in Koslovsky's lab. Yeah.

Don't ask me how I just came up with that. That just happened. I don't know. It's great. It's things merging in one's brain. I mean this is the type of response that one gives after spending years

in and out of the studio though like in years ago without having done any of this when we first started it's that will be loud it's probably yeah I don't know it's yeah there's one part we'll probably get a bit loud or something it's a waste time will you get loud

and now you're such an expert you go yes I will scream it's like I will scream it will be loud you want to drop the game for that bit I'll give you a thumbs up if you need just before I do it. It's like an absolute level expert. Yeah.

It's like I will move this far away from the mic. You turn it down to we'll be fine. Yeah, it's like you and I. We're going to make this work, this scream. I have a different question about something in the episode, which is that two things actually. One of them is the whole basalt thing, like not sitting on unbezzled. And there is almost this painful irony in how he says that he has the hope of one day raising a family.

And then he actually does sit on the basalt and well. Yeah. As far as we know, at least, he never did raise a family, did he? Well, spoiler alert for C. No, no, no. I think one of the interviewers is enough, to be honest. Although we did have three at one point, didn't we? We did, we did.

But like two of them were very compatible with life. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he does. Imagine that they had three Koslovskis. Yeah, that would be interesting. We could take on more business. I mean, the problem with Kuzlowski is that, like, I wouldn't be surprised if he, like, found the way to, like, clone himself, but, like, Dolly the sheep style. Yeah, that's interesting.

Like, growing a clone of himself, just being like, yeah, there you go. Yeah. One, two, three, let's go. Yeah, anyway. Okay, so that was basically not, maybe not the smartest question. I just found the kind of, like, a weird irony thing. Yeah, no, I think, yeah, it was a bit, it's a very interesting. point and it's one that I think I

also had that thought when reading it but I haven't thought about it since so it's always good to be reminded of things that have happened because it's been so much that has happened over the years and it's not all present in my mind understandable every single time I do a recording session with this like for anyone

I'm always just like okay please God tell me I have some notes yeah yeah I was just like okay okay okay I said this, this, this. And then I was like floundering because it's like I didn't actually take any notes apart from these two out of context thingies. Yeah.

For, okay. Hmm. Yeah. Hmm. But it's enough to jog the memory. Yes, I will scream. I mean, I'm glad it jogs your memory. Yeah, yeah. The other question I have

were because I have a sneaking suspicion that like at least one of my questions is going to be cut out because this is a super, super long episode already. I'm just going to call it a question. A question I do have is at that point in the inside

the wicker man. I mean, Afa fully doesn't expect it about to come. He does, like what is going through his head? What I kind of always thought was it's just exclamation marks and question marks. Is there anything else going through his head in that moment?

Because I've wondered about that. Yeah, yeah. You mean before Itabel comes or when he arrives? Like when he does. Maybe before and then during, I mean, depending on how you interpret the question. I mean, I think beforehand he is just making, well, making loud and painful peace with the fact that this is the end. but no I think like he doesn't get it at all

he just does not understand what is going on I mean it's like how could he possibly the guy arrives in a moment where you know as far as he's concerned now they're both going to burn to death and suddenly you know everything turns out all right it's witchcraft probably thinks he's hallucinating yeah I mean a witchcraft

would at least make sense, I mean, with the druids and everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the druid craft. Oh, dear. Yeah, fancy. One of the questions that I asked Ostein in the episode that we talked about, the Adorn many devs, was about how long Alvina and Afa have not been on the same page anymore during the time that he is telling her all of his stories. Because to me, it very much felt like she interpreted the situation as a,

I am giving you the tools to save me I am giving you like all of these stories and you can figure something out well to him I think it probably felt more like you know telling her his story the same way people did before they died to him

and my question is do you think they were ever on the same page about that or do you think they just like lost each other at some point during it? It's a good question. I'm not sure I would even be able to answer it for Alvina because playing the party.

Well, it's okay that if you only answered for Arthur. Yeah. I think as far as Arthur goes, it's, I think it was, for me, I think it was clear to him that he is simply passing on these stories so that they don't get lost. because, you know, he's quite a chipper bloke at the best of times and is quite optimistic in his outlook. Pretty much always.

So for him to reach the stage where he says that that's it and that he is dying and he is, you know, he can feel that he is crumbling and it's, you know, that's it. I think for him it is simply a case of he needs to get these stories out. he needs to pass them on before they die with him. Yeah. I mean, yeah. So, yeah, but I do think, obviously, I don't, I think that for him, Alvina maybe didn't get the, didn't appreciate the gravitas of the situation.

They didn't fully accept, you know, saying that she's going to get help and stuff and him saying, no, you just need to listen now because this, this is, that's what this is. about you just listen to the stories. It's like the five stages of grief and she's completely at the Naya. Yeah. Which is understandable. Yeah. I mean, I feel like, yeah. This is an interesting relationship because, you know, he's, he is super, super old.

And, you know, they've only known each other for nine years. But there is, there is something, the characters are so opposite. but there is something about them that each of them needs. It's kind of like that thing where, you know, married couples who argue all the time. It's like, or you end up being in a relationship with someone who's very much like one of your parents. You know, it's like there's a familiarity.

It's something that you recognize. It's something that you actually need in your life because it helps you to understand yourself better. So it's always been an interesting question in the back of my head. It's like the relationship that these two characters have, that all of them have, actually. You know, what is it about each of them that the others all need in their lives? What are the lessons that they are trying to learn about themselves through these other figures? What do you think it is with Alvina and Arthur?

I'm not entirely sure. I think probably I mean this isn't a decision that I have made for the character but I find the question to be a very interesting one that

you know Alvina is so on the ball with everything it's almost like Alvina is the order that comes out of the chaos of the interviewer's mind that both paths lead to the exact same outcome but the methods are

are worlds apart, universe is apart, but they learn something from each other, from the way that they do it, even though it kind of gets under their skin quite often. There's a reason for why these, why things get under our skin, you know, as humans, as characters, there's a reason for why we search for people in our lives that get under our skin. And it's so that we can help understand ourselves a little bit better and come to terms with parts of our personality. Yeah, that's fun. Yeah. So that's a fun for it.

I like that. Yeah. So I think there's definitely something a lot deeper there between the interviewer and Alvina. And for me, it's not a romantic thing. I mean, there's always the possibility of romantic relationship between characters in any story. But it's kind of like, for me, the intervie. of you in Alvinia is kind of like, do you ever watch Friends? No, but I think I know what you mean.

There's this few episodes where Joey and Rachel kind of get together. And it's that everybody who's a fan, they just know it's like, no, it's wrong. It's better that it stays like a question mark in the air. It's, yeah, because the relationship is something that goes much deeper than that, actually. Yeah. It's, it's, I mean, yeah. That makes all of sense that sometimes the term romantic just doesn't cut it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like that is... There is romance there. You know, there is a certain romance there. But it's on a level that for me, only those two characters really understand. Yeah. And it doesn't really go into the whole mainstream idea of it.

But then again, how on earth could it? because these characters in a such a unique situation as I feel like very similar to how also the relationship between Kozlovsky and Arthur how would you even define that after

all this time do we even have some words for that exactly and it's exactly it's the same thing between Kozlowski and Arthur there is this romance between those characters but it is not a sexual thing.

It's not a relationship thing. It's something that is on such a deep level that these characters just get each other. Yep. And it's difficult to put terms to something that is older

than those terms. Yeah. I feel like. But it's a very... I don't know. That's something that I find super fascinating. Also. as a fan fiction writer who's writing about Tokyo Nalph, where it gets really difficult when these characters are like 6,000 years old,

and you're just like, how do you define what they are? Because I just feel like none of these terms properly work. We're just going to go with love and leave it at that. That's usually the way I go. Yeah, how else do you define it? Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's the one thing we can call it, and that has a lot of different variations to the term.

And also kind of like, is the an brother term for all of it? Yeah. I mean, that's actually something that really drew me to the whole podcast. The whole aspect where I was like, okay, they obviously all love each other. Yeah. But the way they love each other, I don't think it needs a label necessarily.

I feel like everybody has to decide that for themselves. But for me, it was like, okay, do they need the label for me in my head? And I like this ambiguity. Ambiguity? And that's my whole point about the question is more satisfying than the answer. It's also why I usually don't answer questions about my characters because I find for the audience as well, the question is much. much more satisfying than the answer.

Yeah. Because the answer can be a bit of a letdown. You know, if you, if you're listening to a story and you're like, oh my God, that character is like, so this, I understand it. It touches me on a deep level. And then you hear from the actor playing it that it's something else. Yeah. Yeah.

Because you've given a chance to make up your own mind. And that is, I think, something that Pippman, Einstein do really, really great as writers. Absolutely. that's also something you as an actor do really, really well. Oh, thank you. Like, you are a really, really inspiring person. And the way you, oops, sorry. I got to, look, I got too passionate.

I was just trying to watch. I hit my poor microphone, no. But it's something that you is an actor do too. Like, you are very inspiring in the way. you play characters and i'm honestly i really admire that it's something that i um i don't know that i really like it's another thing that drew me as a fan to the podcast where it was kind of just like okay something's going on i gotta know what it is yeah and then it was i don't even know how many years later and i finally found out what it is and it was not a letdown but one of the reasons why it wasn't

the let down was there's still so many questions yeah and And I like that. I like the way that it is inspiring people to think. I mean, that's also where I think that there should never be a canonical description of the characters. Yeah. Yeah. Do you also think that that? Because I know that like that is a big discussion.

People are like, do we want a canonical description or do you not want one? Yeah. I think in storytelling in general, one shouldn't have this. I think that the wonderful thing about stories and characters and following their journey are the things that they don't say, because that's how we're able to relate. You know, you see miscommunication and, you know, differences of opinions happening all the time. And the only reason that that happens is because people are so open with sharing their opinions and how they feel about things.

the second you put it out there you know it's like there's something that really gets to me and I notice it a lot more now because I do like marketing and stuff and with social media and things you know you see comments and stuff it's just this this strange desire that people have to share their criticisms of others which I know I understand that that criticism comes from a place within themselves of feeling a lacking somewhere or like it's it's a cover-up that's at least

how I view it you know if we criticize others it's because they're doing something that we kind of criticize ourselves for not doing therefore it's also kind of like a coping mechanism yeah but it really is one of those things of you know especially in our industry it is so hard to actually get your work out there and, you know, to find the opportunities to actually do it and give it a go. Yeah. And literally every single person who is managing to find it within themselves to do that should be celebrated. It doesn't matter if it's to this person's taste or that person's taste.

It's like, you know, thinking that you're getting your important ideas across by putting others down for the work they're doing? It's like, I don't see the point. I don't see it either. I know what you mean. There used to be this huge discussion that I haven't seen anything off for a while, luckily, but there was actually people putting down fan fiction writers saying that that is a lesser form of art. It's not actually art because like you're just taking something someone made and just like

doing this whole like it's not real because it's not your characters. And that is so stupid because why, like first of all, why do they care? And the second part is that I feel like this ambiguity, I hate this word, ambiguity is such a source of even more of that inspiration. we already talked about. Yeah. There's a question mark makes people talk

and it makes people create. I mean, the amount of fan art and fan fiction that is out there about the Amelia project is something that there was a point where there were four fan fiction on AO3 and two of those were written by me. Yeah. Okay?

And now we have several pages. There is this entire Coca-Cola event where people create things. And that wouldn't be possible if there weren't so many question marks. Which is one of the reasons why I'm forever going to be the timeline apologist. Because I feel like it's just another reason. Well, it's so fun. Yeah.

Well, but I can say with 100% certainty that I can speak for the entire team at the Amelia project, that we find the fan art and the fan fiction outstanding. We are blown away by it. It's, it's, we love it. Yeah, it's like, it's like, we can't even believe that people would go out of their way to do this based on something that we are doing. Yeah. It's like, we don't see it as a lesser art form at all. We see it as something that we couldn't have dreamed up when we started.

It is a huge compliment, isn't it? Yeah, unbelievably so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know the feeling that like when someone takes the time to write a comment, for example, under one of my stories. And it's just like, whoa, you read that? And I went actually had a situation where someone was like, you're writing, this inspired me to write my own thing. And I was like, oh my God.

It's just silly podcast people kidding. But okay. Yeah. But this is the thing, you know, everything has its place. And if starting by doing fan fiction is the stepping stone that a person needs to create their own fan fiction, then that's amazing. And I feel like it is also such a. safe space. Like especially I feel like the whole

podcast fandom scene is such a I mean, of course there are the toxic corners yes. Yeah. But most of it is actually such a welcoming and gentle space where everybody has a space. I mean absolutely. There's so many

different interpretations of the interviewer. It's so, so many. People have all like I remember specifically where someone on Tumblr was like, I think he's shaped like a brick. And then basically like did this fan artwork. It's like a brick with head. And you know what? I love that.

I was so funny. And then there is no whole thing with like, no matter what outfit there is a bowtie. And then there are other people who are crocs. And I'm just like, you know what? I love the fact that there's just so much difference in it. Absolutely. Yeah. On Tumblr especially, I don't know, every week there's someone new.

Yeah. It's great. And I feel like it is a podcast. I don't know, I don't want to say inclusive fanoms, but I almost feel like audio drama is a very inclusive fandom. Yeah. Because you don't really need, like, I don't know, I mean, like for most other things to need, like,

Netflix or Amazon Prime or to be, Hulu, whatnot. And then podcasts are usually like everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is, this is, this is one of the wonderful things about the podcasting community because, you know, it's,

obviously we do rely on Patreon supporters and things in order to be able to do it in the first place, but the industry as a whole has not experienced that same level of corruption that money brings with it. That, you know, because I work in various different industries all within the performance and, you know, storytelling. You are literally everywhere doing everything. Yeah, I enjoy it. But you know, it comes with its own stresses and things as well. And you get little insights into these different worlds and how it operates. And when people have the potential to make a lot of money with things, then other people undoubtedly end up suffering. And this is something that doesn't really happen in the audio community. It is very much a together community. And I also just want to mention. do it for the love of it. Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. And that was the other thing. You know, when I said earlier that, you know, if doing fan fiction allows you to do your own fiction, that's great. But that is absolutely not me saying that that should be the goal. I know. I know. I know.

Fan fiction in itself is, is, you know, if that's what you want to do. I think people know that because I also know that a lot of people feel that way. And I mean, I personally support. any form of this like real human art because most people like who write fan fiction do it also for the same reason anyone creates which is out of inspiration and out of love absolutely and I feel like that is so important especially with everything going on in the world I feel like that is the one thing we can do we can be creative and we can chat about creativity And we can steer so wildly off topic.

Yeah, always. But you know what? I don't actually think that it's too much off topic because this is one of the things that I find is super important. And also I find that are super important to hear for people because of, well, everything coming on in the world. And that's why I think it's so nice to. have people who actually work creatively, I think. Yeah.

What is wrong with my words today? I'm a linguist. I promise I can do words. It's Monday and it's, you know, it's getting late in the afternoon. It's been a day. It's been a day. It's been a day. Yeah, it's true.

That's why I think it's so important that, like, creative people also kind of hype up other creative people. and just like, hi, by the way, we're on here. Yeah, yeah. I honestly think you have to. I think it is death to creativity when people within the industry start to criticize each other. There's enough of that that happens from out with the industry without us doing it to each other.

It really goes against everything that creativity stands for, as far as I'm concerned. Oh, I think the same thing. And you're actually backed up by science because that is what I wrote my master's thesis about. Yes. And I found out that in creative spaces, in the comment sections, in the creative comment sections of A or three, at least,

people only hype each other up. There was no criticism. There was nothing like that. It was all positive and it was all hyping each other. It comes with its negative sides. But the main thing that I think is also important to add, especially in this day and age right now, is to say like, well, be kind to each other.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just try, maybe. Yeah. And, you know, that's not to say that, you know, you can't say to someone that it's not what we're looking for, or, you know, it's not the right thing for this. But you can put that over in a way that is still encouraging to the person to continue doing what they love to do.

Yeah. You know, you don't need to tell them that it's rubbish and they don't stand a chance. You know, that's your opinion. and, you know, who cares? And also, that is something that the interview would never, ever say. That's like a thing that I feel like, oh, hi. We have a guest.

This is my son. Hi. This is Linus. Oh, well, you know him. You know, Madden. Yeah, I know. We had the coolest space conversations. You guys had the coolest space conversations.

Yeah. Okay. Then, um, I think the shortest version of this entire segment is just be kind, be creative. Screw the haters. just keep going yeah absolutely sounds wonderful

yeah you've been wonderful yeah it's so funny I know I'm German but every time I hear like either you or Pips speak German

I get this short moment of clubs yeah yeah yeah yeah that can I'm good understand

but that can I'm next time maybe then next time maybe maybe on on English that would also

also super one last thing is um Anything about season six you could tell me if I ask you very nicely? Nobody's going to know. Yes, no, no, I absolutely can. There's a very fascinating revelation that is going to happen in season six

where we find out that actually for this entire time, the interviewer has not been drinking cocoa. He's actually a massive coffee addict. No way. Yeah, look out for that one. Well, thank you for that. I didn't expect that. But how...

None of us did. I know. I feel like I have to like lay down after this. Just like digest those news. Well, that's a perfect segue for, well, thanking everyone for listening to our episode that was originally about Maine more perth, Arthur. but ended up wildly steering off topic and having a very, very nice conversation. Thank you so much for being here and letting me steal your time for quite a while. Thank you, Matty.

It was great chatting with you. This is also the obligatory little reminder that we're doing a live show. Yes. If you can't make it to the live show in London, which we probably might be. I'll have tickets for, if you're lucky. You can also join us for... Oh my God! It's my Mr. Prototype.

It's your Mr. Prototype. This is Mr. Prototype, my boy. I've got Socrates here as well. Yeah, he's still without his bow tie, but, you know... Oh, hi, Socrates. I love him. He kind of looks a little bit like the Loch Ness monster. I love it. Yeah, I was...

I don't know. I was so much fun making these. Yeah. Anyway, if you can't actually attendant person, that's okay. Because we're going to live stream the whole thing via Patreon, don't we? Yes, we are. And there's going to be a live chat and you can still experience it. I can't be that person, but I can be in the live stream.

So you can also get a ticket for that or join our Patreon. And like, just saying, if you join our Patreon, you actually get to see Socrates and Mr. Prototype, because there is a video version of this episode. And you also get like bonus episodes and bonus series and actually a whole lot of stuff. Oh, yeah, you get a lot of great stuff. And we're also doing advanced screenings of delivery after dark in London as well after the show. Oh, okay.

That is pretty cool. That is extremely cool. I feel like the Patreon is just like grown and worth more and more because there's so much stuff. Like you finish binging the podcast and you go to the Patreon and it's just like, oh wait, this is like almost the entire like runtime again. Yeah. So I literally bought myself a coffee on the road yesterday for the same price of a month's Patreon subscription and the coffee is gone. I mean, that's pretty cool. Yeah. But Amelia's forever. Oh yeah

Well I love that Well now that the Patreon Plug especially is in Which I feel like is more and more important now I'm going to ask everyone to have just One more cup of cocoa And we will see all soon Bye

Nice bye guys, thank you There she is She heard that record button She heard the rustle of the snack She heard the rust love to snack mainly Yeah Yeah Forgive me father

For I've sinned It's been six months Since my last confession What would you like to confess today I have decades of failings I could recap here Today I want to confess

The worst thing I've ever done Uh okay Let's one pack here I can be kind of a crap husband I took eight years of my life And lit it on fire in a matter of five hours So I did what any self-rescent

expecting father would do. I am. Lately dose his Gatorade with a powerful laxative. And I guess, sorry for making out in the confessional? Since confession is about talking to God, I felt he had a right to know what you've done. What I've done? What did I do? Are you kidding?

Do you love Emily? What the hell kind of question is that? Well, you're not going to absolve me? That's the whole point. Please leave the sacrament to the professional. Where do you get off talking to me like this? Excuse me? What the fuck?

Who is there? Forgive me, a comedy podcast from Rogue Dialogue. I think I'm getting something. Why are you recording? For science. Did you hear that? We're a little off schedule. Maybe it's the aliens.

I'm studying electromagnetic phenomena and anomalies. I don't think losing people is scary. I just don't want to do it anymore. Just together with me. Radio check. Who's this? I didn't do it. You never do anything.

We should still be secure. Are you safe? The walkies again. Who are you? Comfort. I am not doing it on purpose. You can't bullshit. I am not doing it on purpose.

Stop. Stop! Oh God. I don't like this. I don't like this. What the hell was that? I'm not supposed to know that. We're supposed to be innocent.

I feel an ending coming. Oracle. A sci-fi anthology podcast set in the not-so-distance. future. Season 2, Transmission, available in bi-monthly episode releases starting July 1st, 2023. Or listen now to Season 1, Iris, wherever you get your podcasts.