The Ancients - Alexander The Great's Sex Life

Episode Date: May 7, 2023

This episode contains references and words of a sexual nature.Did Alexander the Great and the Queen of the Amazons really have sex for 13 days solid? What do we know about his male lovers? And how did his sex life stand up to that of his dad’s?Today, the guest is our very own Tristan Hughes, interviewed by Kate Lister, host of the History Hit podcast Betwixt The Sheets. Produced by Charlotte Long and Sophie Gee. Mixed by Sophie Gee and Joseph Knight. For more History Hit content, subscribe to our newsletters here. If you'd like to learn even more, we have hundreds of history documentaries, ad-free podcasts, and audiobooks at History Hit - subscribe today!

Hi, I'm Tristan Hughes, and if you would like the Ancient ad-free, get early access and bonus episodes, sign up to History Hit. With a History Hit subscription, you can also watch hundreds of hours of original documentaries, including my recent documentary all about Petra and the Nabataeans, and enjoy a new release every week. Sign up now by visiting historyhit.com slash subscribe. It's the Ancients on History Hit. I'm Tristan Hughes, your host, and in today's episode, we're back talking about the big man that is Alexander the Great. And today we're talking all about Alexander's sex life. What do we know about his sex life? What do the sources say about his wives, his other sexual partners, and the fantastical stories that emerge around Alexander's sex life in later history?

Particularly a fascinating 13-day sex marathon with the Queen of the Amazons. You'll hear more about that later. It's a fascinating story. Well, in this episode, I and the interviewee, because we've borrowed this episode from our sister podcast, Betwixt the Sheets, with brilliant host Kate Lister. Now I must mention and give fair warning that naturally with this topic, themes of a sexual nature do come up again and again in today's episode. There are some prickly topics mentioned too, so it might not be for everyone's listening. But if this has intrigued you and now you're keener more than ever to listen to this episode, well, I hope you enjoy.

So hello and welcome to Betwixt the Sheets. It's only flipping Tristan Hughes. How are you? to Betwixt the Sheets. It's only flipping Tristan Hughes. How are you? Oh, hello, Kate. Long time coming and I'm so looking forward to this. I'm very well and it's lovely to, well, lovely to talk all things that we're going to be talking about in this podcast. I'm so excited to have you here as the host of my, I want to say sister podcast. I'm very happy. I'm very happy either way. We can call it a sister podcast. I'm going to make your podcast a girl. I'm going to say it's a sister podcast, the ancients. Congratulations, it's a girl. But we're not talking about a girl today,

although we'll definitely be talking about some girls. We are talking about the one and only Alexander the Great. We are indeed. Are you a bit of a fanboy? Oh, you know, I've... Is that too far? My life is, in ancient history terms obviously centered around his death and what happened following his death with the chaos that was the success of wars and

all of that i find that so extraordinary and you know the legacy of this figure is seismic and what he did during his life and then this mythical afterlife of alexander that emerges you know these fantastical stories of alexander became medieval bestsellers like athorian tales later one their stories where he goes to the bottom of the ocean in a submarine and goes flying in an ancient flying contraption another one of these romances it's great but of course very flawed character as well you know was he great was he not genocidal maniac on one side but on the other hand he said his legacy arguably you can still see today so it's only right that we talk about him in today's podcast did he call himself the great was he knowing that in his lifetime just introduce himself as hi i'm alexander alexander great no i don't think so i think that comes later but i

couldn't tell you exactly when it comes it's very interesting though how it you see some figures in ancient history particularly after alexander who are called the great in their lifetime, but they're not actually really that great. That'd be awful. Trying to introduce yourself at like an office party. It's like, hello, I'm Tristan the Great. And everyone kind of going, really? Really? Yeah. Hi. Living your own world. We're talking about his sex life as well.

I mean, it'd be awful if you had to try and introduce yourself as, you know, hi, I'm Kate the Great. the great and you know to a potential lover that's setting yourself up isn't it yeah exactly just okay yeah you've thrown the boat out there you've thrown down the gauntlet you've got a lot to live up to and if it doesn't you know your reputation you know everyone's just gonna be like well yeah it's in classes not really what was his full name what would he have introduced himself as well he was the Argeid from the Argeid dynasty, the Argeid line, the royal thing. King Alexander III of Maston,

he was the third of his name for the royal Argeid Mastonian line. But I couldn't tell you exactly if there were many epithets that he gave him, but what you see in the sources, you know, Alexandros, the third of his name, and so on and so forth. That's still a pretty good title. I mean, if it's not quite great, that's still, that's impressive. He is an absolutely fascinating figure when you look at that. And it's also, when you look at his family too,

it's more than just the man, the people that he's surrounded by in his family, whether it's his father, whether it's his warrior-like half-sister, elder half-sister, Canane, who is just such an incredible character, always full sister Cleopatra, even his half-brother, Philip Aridaeus, and his young son, Alexander. He's a man in a family which is full of incredible personalities. We always kind of

focus in on Alexander, but there's so much more to the story of ancient Macedon and his family than just that king. I suppose we should probably start by talking about his dad. I suppose it'd be fair to say Alexander the Great had a few daddy issues in the mix. Like what kind of world did Alexander grow up in and how did that, it's difficult, isn't it? But like that impacted his sex life. But like, what was his dad like? What was Alexander's childhood like?

Well, there's so many parts of Alexander's story. You almost always have to go back to the story of his dad, who is King Philip II of Macedon, because he is integral in forming the Macedonian kingdom, in forming the Macedonian state that Alexander the Great inherits when Philip is assassinated in 336 BC. But Philip II of Macedon, he comes to the throne of Macedon in about 359 BC, and at that time Macedon is very much on the edges of the Greek world. It's on the brink of chaos. It's surrounded by enemies, Thracians, Paeonians, Illyrians. And what Philip

does during his reign through a series of different initiatives is he transforms Macedon almost from this backwater into the dominant power in the central Mediterranean. Oh, well done, Phil. Well done, Phil, indeed. You know, he's normally overlooked compared to Alexander the Great, but I love that sometimes there's a debate about who was more important, Philip or Alexander. Who was the greater. Exactly.

And I think quite a lot of people now going on the side of Philip. But Philip, he had quite a lot of, well, I'm not going to say vices, but things that the ancient sources highlight in the literature, which seems to be very much contrasted with alexander and one way is for instance is his sex life philip he's polygamous he has several wives during the course of his reign but they are all as a result of normally at the end of wars there was a joke that philip mario had a new wife after every war he fought because there was this diplomatic part in his marriages in the fact that it helped him to

cement to increase macedon's power so all these various different ways in which he's able to increase macedon's power he reforms the army he revolutionizes the army with like the macedonian phalanx this central infantry tactical formation that his macedonian soldiers center around new heavy cavalry reforms the logistics train of it all But another way he does it is through diplomatic marriages. And as mentioned, by the end of his reign, according to the sources, he has some seven marriages. He has several children by different wives. One of them, of course, is Alexander's mother, Olympias, who has Alexander as her son, but also a daughter called Cleopatra, who's Alexander's only full sister. But there are several others as well. But it's very interesting that in the ancient world, there are only two of

his seven wives who are Macedonian. The other five are ones of Thracian or a member of the Getae royal family. Two are Thessalian. One, Alexander's mother Olympias, is Melostian. I don't even know where melostia is well it's a funny one because if you type in melossia today you'll get that little i'm not going to call it a kingdom or something but i think someone's tried to form his own little kind of independent place in the center of the usa but melossia is now in northwest greece and it's more commonly known as part of epirus this ancient this ancient region of Epirus, which today covers southern Albania and northwest Greece. But Alexander, he's born into a world where his father, King Philip II, he has

several marriages. There is no settled succession in the Macedonian royal family. So even though Alexander, we now think of him as the heir of Philip, there was no guarantee that that was going to happen before Philip's assassination in 338 bc has an elder brother he has sisters as well court intrigue factional strife is rife at the court of philip ii in the macedonian royal court and part of that is to do with philip's sex life this is like a jerry springer nightmare this is isn't it he's got so many wives and so many children and every time he has a war he gets a wife at the end of it like a bizarre trophy or consolation prize in her case so there's loads of kids and was he faithful to his seven wives oh no absolutely not no we definitely know that we know

so he married there but it wasn't looked down upon for Philip to have courtesans as well, but also male lovers too. Oh, male lovers. Now that's interesting. Okie doke. All right, tell me about that. So this is interesting with Philip II of Macedon. With ancient Greek culture and with the Macedonian elite at this time with Philip II, there seems to be very much this from the sources. It's a very prickly topic to talk about.

It's a horrid topic, but it's the ancient Greekreek pederasty which you do see in sparta athens and it continues into the late fourth century at the time of philip ii of macedon in macedonia and we get this idea of an older man and a younger adolescent boy who's known as the beloved and we hear in the sources of philip ii having at least two potentially three of these figures who we know of by name, potentially more. One of whom is actually involved in his assassination, which occurs in 338 BC. Oh, dear. I mean, there are a few examples to highlight. There are two figures called Pausanias who I'll get to, but another figure I find quite interesting.

He's only mentioned in one of the sources as being a catamite of Philip II, which is a young man also called Alexander. Not to be confused with Philip's son, Alexander, who had gone to be Alexander III of Macedon, Alexander the Great. They need to find some new names for a start. Well, the amount of Cleopatra's and Alexander's and Perdiccas' at this time, Kate, is absolutely mad. But in one source, which is Justin, he talks about this other figure called Alexander, who comes to the royal court of Macedon as a hostage. Because Alexander is a member of the Molossian royal family. He's the brother of Olympias, who marries Philip. This is getting very complicated.

Right. It's very. Yes. You must have had post-it notes everywhere. Philip of Macedon trying desperately to work out who he's knobbed the night before who's related to who which international incident am I gonna right okay so this is Alexander from this is another one right because he's the brother of Olympias who he marries who is the mother of Alexander the Great the one played by Angelina Jolie in the film the one played by Angelina Jolie in the film absolutely right but played by Angelina Jolie in the film, absolutely. Right.

But he grows up at the Royal Court of Macedon and he receives an education there and then he'll later go back and be reinstated as the new king of this kingdom to the south-west of Macedon. But in Justin, he says that Alexander also becomes the beloved of Philip once he's at the Royal Court of Macedon. It's quite a fucked up practice, isn't it, really? And by our own standards, you can't think it's anything other than pederasty. But it was very common across the ancient world,

this idea that a young boy would somehow be apprenticed to an older man who would teach him lots of important things, and it would be a sexual relationship. It seems absolutely bonkers to our modern eyes, doesn't it? But not only was it fine, it was aspirational as well it really is and you see you there is examples of it as we've just mentioned you know at the court of philip ii among the macedonian elites at that time and down into the time of alexander the great too because we know that he had at least one younger male lover who actually wasn't a macedonian a a Persian eunuch called Begoas.

But as you say, really, for our minds today, it's horrible. It's really nasty to think about. But as you say, this was a part of this culture that there was. And we have to talk about it, especially if we're talking about Philip at the start here. Yeah. How young are we talking here? Oh, goodness. Well, in the example of Philip, let's take the case of Pausanias or Alexander. Pausanias, one we're told, is a page at the Macedonian royal court, so almost certainly a teenager. Alexander of Molossia, he's also very much a boy when he comes to the royal court of Macedon, and he's reinstated as the king of Molossia in around 342-341 BC. So he spends more than 10 years at the court of Philip II of Macedon, and that is during his teenage years too.

So I can think we can imagine around that age. They're teenagers. Do you think that this is because, and this is sort of a theory that I've got, and I might be really wrong, that this practice arose because there was actually quite a lot of shame in just having a male lover of your age, because there's something implied in taking the quote-unquote feminine role that there wasn't

as much if you were what we would now call the top in vernacular the one doing the penetrating you were manly and fine but there's still quite there was still quite a lot of shame attached to being sort of the feminine role and this idea of it being a younger man because they aren't past puberty and they aren't you know fully grown men does that play into it or have i just imagined that i think so no i think absolutely because he said the elder man known as like the pursuer of the erastes and the younger adolescent boy like the pursued the oromenos and there is very much that idea as you say you know the masculine and the feminine there but it is very interesting also this idea of actually a male lover your age the prickly topic of alexander

and hephaestion greatly debated whether they were lovers or not but we do inly topic of alexander and hephaistian greatly debated whether they were lovers or not but we do in the story of alexander the great with this conspiracy called the royal pages conspiracy we have evidence of soldiers elite macedonian figures these pages basically a young macedonian officer school for like these teenagers learning to be officers of them having sexual relations with another young man from the pages that two of them become lovers we hear about that a few times in this great conspiracy of these we know certain figures so that is quite interesting of you they're having lovers the same age in a military circle right okay so we've got this very bizarre and convoluted family life that you've got i mean

christmas must have been a nightmare in that family. It must have cost everyone a fortune. I'm not sure what their equivalent of Christmas would have been back there. But it's very, very interesting because you do see, especially during the reign of Philip II, as mentioned, there is no settled succession. So you see this rival factions emerging at court. You see Olympias, Alexander's mother, playing a prominent role.

You have, before the assassination of Philip II, when he marries his seventh and final wife, this woman called Cleopatra, another Cleopatra, who is from the Macedonian heartlands, Macedonian noble family. They're at the wedding feast where they're celebrating the marriage of Philip to Cleopatra.

And Cleopatra's uncle makes a toast. Alexander the Great is there he is there reclining he is at the wedding feast and Attalus basically he stands up and he says may the gods give you brilliant children you know legitimate children to succeed you to the throne of Macedon and this is evidently this is a shot at Alexander the Great and the fact that his mother Olympias isn't a Macedonian. And Alexander doesn't react well to this. He stands up, you know, there's a shouting match. You know, he's basically accusing Attalus,

accusing him of not being Philip's successor, of not being, you know, a legitimate successor to Philip. It results in him going in exile for a bit. And so you have these various stories around the time just before Philip II is assassinated, which once again emphasizes how to those around Philip and potentially to Philip himself it's not very certain that Alexander is going to be Philip's successor okay it's only clear that that happens after Philip's assassination and Alexander assumes the kingship straight away and then removes potential rivals. Who bumped him off? Do we know that?

So who bumped Philip II off? That goes back to the figure of Pausanias, who is another of his male lovers. Right. So the story behind that is Pausanias, according to the sources, he's a royal page. He's a younger man at the court of Macedon. He had been the lover, the beloved of Philip II. been the lover the beloved of Philip II but at a later date Philip II decides to basically shun Pausanias and take another male lover also called Pausanias so that's Pausanias too. Oh that's just salt in the wound isn't it? Yeah it's a really interesting story that you get because Pausanias you know he's obviously

probably angry with Philip about that but then at that royal wedding ceremony feast where Attalus derides Alexander to his face in front of Alexander what also happens that night according to the sources is that Attalus instigates a gang rape of Pausanias I who's already been shunned by Philip by other elite Macedonian figures at that feast. Oh that's grim. And Pausanias afterwards he's a noble Macedonian he is still actually one of the he is a leading soldier in Philip's army he demands justice for how Attalus has treated him for how these people have treated him at the wedding feast but Philip because Attalus is his new bride's uncle doesn't do anything about it and so Pausanias the resentment grows and grows and grows potentially he is working with Olympias the mother of Alexander

the Great who is also keen to ensure that Alexander is the successor what happens is that a couple of years later during this great another marriage ceremonyip is entering the theater at agai in the heartlands of macedon and pausanias is there he greets him and he assassinates philip pausanias is killed in the aftermath but there you go there's a kind of a horrible love story that is attached to the death of philip the second horrifically there well fuck around and find out phil that's i feel very sorry for what was it parsonanius parsonanius yes oh and that's the story that comes over again and again and again regards the assassination of philip ii now because parsonanius dies in the aftermath it's always kind of speculated as to who he was helped by in the killing of philip ii hence why olympias's

name is sometimes associated and she would have would have motive because it were to secure Alexander as the successor, but Alexander would also have motive too. So that's why those two names are always associated with potentially aiding Pausanias, with irking him on, with giving him potential support to assassinate Philip II. So his dad gets bumped off and Alexander pretty much pretty much just goes that's mine the throne's mine so it's kind of like a coup and then he becomes king but do we have any idea of what his sex life was like at the time obviously not the time he was killing everyone he'd have been pretty preoccupied at that point how old was he oh when alexander comes to the throne late well he's born in about 356 and philip the second is assassinated in 336 so he's about 20 years old when he comes to the

throne he dies at the age of 32 I know I know just imagine a 20 year old Tristan or 20 year old Kate assuming control of an ancient kingdom you imagine so he comes to the throne and as mentioned he dies age 32 so only 13 years later but in that time you know when he comes to the throne one thing with alexander's sex life is that we don't hear that much of it compared to his other things compared to for instance his military achievements this obsession with becoming the greatest idolizing his homeric heroes of old and besting them idolizing demigods like hercules and getting further in the world going beyond them surpassing them he was engrossed by that but this isn't suggest that Alexander didn't have that much

interest in sex at all although this is sometimes said by later sources I have heard that about him actually people just kind of go no I wasn't interested in it I don't think that's the case I mean there's some great stories about that but that's one line of thought as to why his sex life is no way near as promiscuous as his father king philip slutty there we go it's a messy bitch that philip honestly so much more right there we go i love it i'm loving this so much kate but what is so interesting is that what is emphasizing the source again and again is this idea of his sexual suffrage his sexual moderation that we see okay but we do nevertheless we have several examples surviving from the many sources that's fired by alexander the great of him with several different sexual partners but before he really assumes the throne before he begins his

persian conquest goes east and so on and so forth is around a courtesan called calixina sometimes called cambaspe and pancaste sometimes the names differs in some of the sources i think it's all really focused around one pharsalian woman okay a pharsalian courtesan called calixena who was renowned as one of the most beautiful women in the greek world at the time and the story around this it preserved in a few of the sources take it with a pinch of salt okay but it's a great story nonetheless and i think regardless we can presume that calixena was an actual person who was renowned at the time but the story goes that philip and olympias you know the mum and dad of

alexander the great are worried that alexander's not interested in sex sex with a woman at least so basically they hire calixena and they basically beg her to have sex with alexander and then apparently one source olympias begs alexander please have sex with calixena please you're well you're in your late teens now you must be 89 something like that or probably younger to be honest but she's begging alexander to have sex with calixena and apparently alexander does so reluctantly and for the sources that do have this story it's like alexander loses virginity to this thessalian courtesan calixena but it is very interesting because that's really the only story we have of alexander having a female lover before he ascends

the throne before he begins his persian conquest because you, it's so interesting with him that we have that dearth of stories relating to it. And following that, I mean, he stays a bachelor for most of his life following that. But that's not to say he doesn't have any sexual escapades, shall we say. I'm Professor Susanna Lipscomb, and on my podcast, Not Just the Tudors from History Hit, I try to make sense of everything that baffled our early modern ancestors. Like, what do you do with your waste? If you put your dunghill up against your neighbour's wall, you're going to cause rising damp. Would Henry VIII ever consider executing his wife, the Queen of England? And Berlin? I'm not even sure if the Boleyns took it seriously,

because why would they have any reason to suspect Henry VIII would really get rid of his queen? And why do men grow beards? During puberty, the male body heats up, and a smoke rises in the body, pushes out the hair in the face. So the beard is actually a form of excrement. In other words, not just the Tudors, but most definitely also the Tudors. Twice a week, every week. Listen and follow on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. I mean, he was a busy boy, wasn't he? He was focused.

He was global domination will deplete your time for pursuing lovers, I suppose. But that is an interesting story that keeps coming up about him, was just that he was just not that first. Well, exactly. It's so interesting. And I think there are sometimes political reasons why he certainly, for instance, he doesn't marry or have sex with certain Persian princesses early on his reign than he perhaps could have done. And why he does that later, all to do with his relationship with the Macedonian soldiers, his dependence on the Macedonian soldiers. But there are other cases where it is, you know, it is just really interesting.

But there are other cases where it is, you know, it is just really interesting. I mean, if we go back to Alexander before he begins his conquest of the Persian Empire, there are two of his senior adjutants, much older than he is, like close allies of his father, Philip II. These two figures called Parmenion and Antipater. And, you know, they are senior, they are veteran, they know the scene of the Macedonian royal family of court politics, as does Alexander. But they basically say, Alexander, before you begin this conquest of the Persian Empire, you know, this is pretty dangerous stuff, particularly with your leadership style, where you're going to be leading from the front in all of your battles. You should probably, you know, maybe just hold back for a few years.

Marry, have an heir, make sure you have an heir, and then you can go wild. Then let's go and campaign and conquer the Persian Empire. Alexander has none of that. He's just like, no, I'm going straight away and to conquer the persian empire alexander has none of that he's just like no i'm going straight away and to conquer the persian empire so you do see these stories by these i hate to perhaps like more conservative lower c members of the macedonian elites talking to him again and again and again basically advising alexander to have sex more basically following in the footsteps of philip and olympias but alexander is always very much determined to do what he wants to do and he's engrossed by this desire to surpass his Homeric heroes of old from the Iliad and these demigods like Heracles do you think and this this isn't a fair question we're gonna ask it anyway

do you think he was gay this is like the thing that hangs over Alexander the Great like all the time like was he bisexual was he asexual was he this and i know we can never actually get a proper answer to that but for your money what was going on it's very difficult to say obviously this dichotomy that we have between homosexual and heterosexual today didn't exist in the ancient greek world and the tradition didn't exist very important to know yes which is good to know first off you know can i clear my back on that but it's very interesting if we put a modern label on it today he was almost certainly bisexual in the fact that we know that he had female lovers and we know that he had at least one male lover in the figure of Bagoas, this eunuch. And once again, I think personally, more likely than not, that he and Hephaestion, his closest friend, also had a sexual relationship as well.

How long that lasted and that endured as a sexual relationship, was evidently stronger than that they were just really close friends anyway we can never know how long it lasted but i think with a feistian i absolutely do so i think the evidence from the literature going really have his literature for this stuff is there that he like men he like women too that's fascinating and we've got to like i suppose remember that when we talk about famous people or extraordinary people throughout history we almost want them to have something interesting some sexual quirk about them it's really boring if it's just like no he just he loved his wife and they had sex in the missionary position once a week with the lights out like we want there to be something you know like we want them to have like a fleet of okay trust me

like especially of alexander we haven't got to the amazon story yet this amazing all right okay okay get to the amazon story come on come on because it's a wonderful story it is preserved actually in a couple of our alexander historians like quintus curtis rufus we'll sort the fact from the fiction later but let's just tell the stories it is, first of all, because it is great. So this is a few years into Alexander's campaigns, conquest against the Persian Empire. He's defeated the Persian king Darius III at a couple of set battles. In fact, Darius III has just been murdered by one of his subordinates. That's all going on, isn't it? Yeah. It's a brilliant, brutal, horrific, but extraordinary story. And there's so many

different parts, but we're focusing on this part today aren't we so i want to let's delve into it so alexander at this time he is just southeast of what is now the caspian sea in this region called hyrcania and apparently in a couple of our sources it is then that the queen of the amazons a woman called thalestris approaches the camp of alexander and requests an audience of Alexander and she's got the classic Amazon look she's got one of her breasts quarterized she's got spears she's riding on horseback

the breast quarterized so she can bring the drawstring of her bow back to fire fine fuck love just a sports club Jesus Christ so she's cut her boob off that would make an impression well yeah and so she approaches

alexander and her kingdom supposedly lies in the area from the sources it says ancient caulcus so really modern day georgia between the black sea and the caspian sea just below the caulcuses and she approaches alexander and it basically goes along the lines of alexander you're evidently the greatest man in the world from what you've done i am evidently the greatest woman in the world we should have sex and because of that from our you know our offspring whatever child we have will evidently be like a superhuman wow will be like the greatest child that has ever been and in a couple of the sources alexander is a bit he kind of says okay but he doesn't seem you know that interested in other ones he's very excited and he's very keen to do and um they have sex for 13 days think of the cystitis that's ridiculous no one's having

sex for 13 days i know it's a fantastic story that is preserved in a couple of i said minutes like quintus curtis rufus from the time which highlight this meeting of alexander the great with this amazonian queen after 13 days the l, she feels like they've probably conceived by then. So she heads back to her kingdom. She parts ways with Alexander. Alexander supposedly offers, you know,

she says, come along, you know, come stay with us for a bit longer. Come and campaign with us. She says, nope, nope,

I'm off. I'm done. I'm done. If it's a daughter, she stays with me in the kingdom of the Amazons, you know, in the kingdom of the Amazons.

If it's a son, I will send the son to you and he will rejoin you in your camp, you know, in the Queendom of the Amazons, if it's a son, I will send the son to you and he will rejoin you in your camp, you know, later on during the campaigns. And we never hear anything else about the story whatsoever. But it's a fascinating, fantastical story that becomes associated with Alexander so quickly, really quickly, in fact, because this is where you have to sort the fact from the fiction. Almost certainly this is fictitious, this is a fantastical story, but it's applied on Alexander's story almost immediately because one of Alexander's adjutants is a man called Lysimachus. He would go on later to become the king of a kingdom in Monde, Bulgaria, around the region of ancient Thrace. And according to one of the sources, it mentions how basically

Lysimachus, his court court historian is retelling this story of alexander meeting the amazonian queen and lysimachus supposedly jokes when he hears the story where was i at this point because he was campaigning with alexander so he kind of takes the piss out of it because you know they all kind of know that this is absolute nonsense and this has been fabricated but it is an amazing story that is quickly added to alexander's sex life story there's a similar similar-ish story in the epic of gilgamesh one a really early one that the harlot shamhat was sent to tame the wild man incandu and they had sex for seven days and seven nights and then when they'd finished

he was no longer wild and he couldn't talk to animals anymore right how interesting so i don't know like i wouldn't recommend anyone having sex for this prolonged amount of time, unless you've got snacks and you're well hydrated. Mind you, he's the king, isn't he? He probably had snacks just brought in. But maybe, like, the idea of, like, epic lovemaking feats with these really impressive people, maybe it crops up in other traditions. Well, I wonder. I mean, I've never heard that epic Gilgamesh story. You know, that's seven days and this is 13 days i think the 13 days part of it is the most extraordinary part of this

fantastical story in itself but as soon as alexander dies he becomes this divine figure you know his funeral carriage is shaped as a mini temple on wheels wow you know he wants to be buried supposedly at the oracle of zeus who he was now saying was his father you know declared the son of zeus and so on and so forth so you know this idea you know this extraordinary idea may well be linked to these divine stories attached to alexander which just get bigger and bigger and bigger i mentioned you know the submarine and the flying contraption much later on medieval times you know they just evolve and evolve and evolve over the centuries so actually with the whole story of alexander it is sometimes very difficult to sort fact from fiction because so much of it is mythologized i

don't think anyone can have sex for 13 days i'm just going to put that out there tantrish mantra there's no one's having sex for 13 days but you're gonna have to tell me about begoer okay because he's a really interesting figure and whether or not Amazons with cauterized boobs were real, he seems to be real, doesn't he, Begoa? He does. And it's interesting because he is explicitly mentioned as a lover of Alexander. This is something that Feistian is never mentioned explicitly in the sources as a lover of Alexander.

He's always just known as a close friend. But I think we can presume that Feistian was a lover when you look at all the evidence. I would put my money on that. I think that they were in love. It's an interesting story with Begoes because actually we don't hear that much about him. We know a little bit from the Greek sources. I mean, I don't know if the Persian version says more about him, but we know that he

was a eunuch of King Darius III, the great king of Persia, and that he was also a lover of King Darius III, which also, if we believe the Greek sources on this, suggests something about the Persian royal king as well, this idea of a younger male lover also there with King Darius III. It's an interesting story where Begoes falls into Alexander's hands. He gets a lot of political influence at court. There's one case where Begoes is instrumental in pleading the case of a captured Persian official, official governor called Nabazanes who

had been involved I think he was involved actually in the murder of Darius the third we betrayed Darius the third so Alexander doesn't think very highly of him but he is spared because of the intervention of Begous so Begous was the lover of Darius the third becomes the lover of Alexander the great we hear of a couple of stories where he is involved, which is, for instance, the sparing of this Persian official. And we hear later, apparently as well, at a ceremony of some kind, apparently the Macedonian soldiers, they see Alexander with Begous and they call out in celebration that Alexander give Begous a kiss,

which he does. But we don't hear that much. Ooh, with tongues? I'm afraid I don't have that information to hand alexander's several wives as well he has a couple of not mistresses but female lovers women he has sex with who he doesn't marry barcene's a fascinating example they have an illegitimate child who they call heracles but heracles doesn't fare well after alexander's death neither does barcene he marries a few times all diplom diplomatically, it seems,

Roxana in the Far East, then two Persian princesses, neither of whom survived long after Alexander's death either. How many people did he marry? He only marries three. Oh, wow. Yeah, compared to his father,

Philip II. That's nothing. That's less than half. But he marries three and they're all diplomatic. They're all with Asian elites, noble women or princesses right two daughters of darius one daughter of a prominent chieftain in what is modern day uzbekistan to

kind of try and pacify that area so it's a fascinating example because you have those marriages which are evidently diplomatic there's only one child conceived from the marriages before he dies which is the infant who's also called alexander alexander the fourth who like philip haraday as following alexander's death is very much controlled by the successors by the generals who come to the fourth following alexander's death so it's a fascinating example of that but roxana you know her story following alexander's death she grows up in monday uzbekistan she goes back to babylon she's involved in the murder of her rival brides potentially almost certainly to make

sure that her son becomes a successor that's ruthless isn't it it's the macedonian game of thrones that's bridezilla it was kind of bridezilla in that case but you know she compared to what the others do following alexander's death the horrific stuff that they got up to with the murders of people is it like an absolute bun fight just that everyone loses their shit completely everyone is their shit everyone's trying to gain some authority some power some legitimacy in this really unstable new post alexander world you know alexander the great's death is like one of the most seismic events that's ever happened in the ancient world when it happens because people have no clue what's going to happen next really and then with alexander's empire former brothers in arms become the most hated of enemies you have you know some horrific murders taking place of members of alexander's family

some of his wives his mother olympias is later murdered but she's also involved in the murder of other figures too you have his half-sister who's murdered you have his full sister who's murdered only one sister of alexander the great survives a half-sister who's murdered. You have his full sister who's murdered. Only one sister of Alexander the Great survives, a half-sister called Thessalonica. You have Alexander's child killed. You have his illegitimate child, Heracles, also killed. It is the generals who take power following Alexander's death. They ultimately go as far as killing Alexander's successors,

his family members, to ensure that they retain power it is horrific yeah i suppose it's because alexander like you know it's much better than me but alexander the great like he's done something that's never been done before he conquered what was at the time the known world and then he ups and dies at 32 and it's like well now what the fuck do we do well i mean that's the thing and it's so interesting because because he marries late arguably late in his reign and you know the only legitimate child from his wife that he has is unborn at the time that he dies there's no clear successor there's no clear heir that results in a lot of turmoil straight away but it's kind of in a way it's alexander's own fault for nots you know the advice of his old guard before he left to campaign against the empire marry have an air before you go sort your shit out even though there's never any settled

succession in macedonian politics royal family at that time that would have at least helped to some regard potentially but he marries late for several reasons once again we always get this idea of sexual moderation that he was just so obsessed with being better than his heroic semi-mythical idols and heracles and the like that he was obsessed with that and less focused on what if he died what would happen next and ultimately that results in the chaos that engulfs his empire almost immediately following his death i always feel sorry for there must be people in these families who are like they've no interest in this they don't want to be king or queen or whatever it is they just want to live in their

house and eat sandwiches and just do a bit of gardening but just because they are part of this they're always at risk and they might want nothing to do with it at all and there's just some guard somewhere plotting that because you're alexander's third cousin twice removed he once had sex with one of his mates that you are now a target yeah because you could be used as a figurehead by a rival claimant to whoever i am in control of macedonia or whatever and they could use you to try and garner support amongst the populace who you know love alexander or whatever and then you could topple me so i see you potentially as a threat. Absolutely brutal. Alexander saw rivals to him, like his cousin Amintas,

as soon as he comes to the throne, gets rid of him. Olympias sees, it's almost certainly Olympias involved in it, the murders, Philip's last wife, Cleopatra, and her infant daughter. Even her infant daughter is not spared, which really does seem pretty brutal and over the top,

but they are removed as well. Because there's this idea, and I think actually it's very true for the female relatives of alexander's family particularly following alexander's death where if they don't act first they are going to be used by these generals trying to seek power post alexander the great because one of the key ways to kind of legitimize yourself as a ruler would be by marrying into the family of alexander the great which several do try to do so you see many cases like canane this warrior amazon figure gathers an army she's half illyrian she's very much a bellicose an incredible a warrior princess really respected amongst macedonian soldiers she gathers an army to try and put her teenage daughter on the macedonian throne to secure herself and her daughter in this unstable

post-Alexander world by marrying her to the new king Philip Aridaeus III so she takes actions into her own hands before someone thinks I should marry Canane or whoever. God you'd have to wouldn't you? Yeah so it's very much it's for women in particular Olympias and Cleopatra do this as well following Alexander's death they form an extraordinary mother-daughter team they try to attach themselves to a particular general or to the king before they are used some people would always kind of portray this and I think it's completely wrong I think well I think it's wrong to an extent that you know all these women are they're just power hungry they just want to be the voices behind the thrones the real influence it's all to do with safety and security in this unstable time because if they didn't act they were going

to be used by someone else yeah or bumped off or bumped off exactly so um alexander sex life and then the successes of sex life as well when it comes to alexander's family members is it's really interesting i know we've only just scratched the surface, but I hope you've got an idea of the complete turmoil, Kate, that there is. That is, I mean, you know, I thought that things got messy with Tinder or something, but this is just a whole other level of chaos. My final question, just because I want to know now, what happened to Bagoas and Hephaestion?

Like the ones that Alexander probably did love. Did they get out of this all right did they manage to retire somewhere nice retirement home for eunuchs so i can answer the hephaestion question absolutely the begoes question someone probably tell me that there is a source which mentions what happens to begoes but from my memory i do not know what happens to begoes it kind of fades out of existence really from my knowledge with hephaestion it's much clearer because hephaestion dies before alexander the great and one of the great kind of um cases that is kind of used to potentially suggest you know well it evidently shows that they were very very close friends some have used

it to emphasize how alexander was also a lover of their lovers is the fact that when hephaestion dies in ekbatana which which is like northern Iran today, south of the Caucasus Mountains, northwest Iran, when he dies in 324 BC, the level of grief by Alexander is unprecedented. It's crazy. Like he basically goes mad. He grieves for so long about the death of Hephaestion.

And there are some people who, when talking about the death of Alexander the Great, there are several different parts that cause Alexander's death that aren't poison. It's definitely not poison. So it might be his excessive drinking. It might be the war wounds that he suffered. He suffered several severe war wounds over the course of his campaign. But another factor in his early death may well have been this excessive grief, may well have been grief for the loss of Feistian.

That is one potential suggestion surrounding a potential cause of Alexander the Great's death. He constructs this massive funeral pyre for Hephaestion in Ecbatana and I know that also in one of the sources when following Alexander's death they find these last plans of

Alexander where he had these, fantastical is the wrong word, but extra extraordinary ideas for the future like creating a road that linked the eastern Mediterranean to the pillars of Hercules to the straits of Gibraltar all these port towns you know creating a massive a thousand plus ship fleets in the eastern Mediterranean creating a tomb for his father Philip II bigger than the largest building of the time the great the pyramids of giza but another thing supposedly was to create a great funeral monument for her feistian as well which would have cost so much money so we know how her feistian dies he dies before alexander the great of illness

if i remember correctly in 324 bc and what we see from that for result from that is incredible grief from alexander so you can say without doubt that they were the closest of friends oh they were very very close and I think it's yeah as you say

I think it's more than likely that if not for all the time at least for a part of their time that they were lovers too yeah I think oh Alexander

Tristan you've been amazing to talk to today I could have kept going at this for hours and hours. We can next time at the History Hit, you know, get together. We're just going to keep talking. We'll just have Alexander the messy bitch part two.

Oh my days. And then we can keep going. If people want to know more about you, and they should, where can they find you? Well, you can find me on social media. I do social media once in a while on Twitter and Instagram. But of course, the main thing you can find me on is as the host of the Ancients podcast. In the History Hit stable, alongside the shining lights that are betwixt the sheets and the several others that we have there. So, and you can listen, we do two episodes a week released.

Our mission is just to share these incredible stories from ancient history with as many people as possible. And long may that continue. Long may it continue. Tristan, thank you so much. You've been an absolute legend. Kate, absolute pleasure. And thank you. Well, there you go.

There was our crossover episode with Kate and with the Betwixt the Sheets sister history hit podcast talking all about Alexander the Great's sex life. I hope you enjoyed the episode now last things from me if you have enjoyed the episode and you want to help us out on the ancients where you know what you can do you can leave us a lovely rating on apple podcasts on spotify wherever you get your podcast from it greatly helps us as we continue to share these amazing stories from our distant past with you and with as many people as possible.

Long may that continue. But that's enough from me and I will see you in the next episode.