The Ancients - Attila the Hun: Scourge of God

Episode Date: August 10, 2023

One of the most powerful, and feared, leaders of history - Attila the Hun's legacy has persevered over centuries. His consolidation of the Hunnic tribes helped play a significant role in shaping the ancient geopolitical landscape of 5th century Europe and Asia - ultimately helping him to invade the Western Roman Empire. But where did Attila the Hun come from, and what was his early royal life like?In this episode Tristan welcomes Hyun Jin Kim back to the podcast to take us through this tumultuous moment of history. Looking at how Attila consolidated his power, exerted control over the Romans, and how he ascended to the throne - is Attila the Hun really as terrifying as history makes him out to be, or is he even worse?Discover the past on History Hit with ad-free original podcasts and documentaries released weekly presented by world renowned historians like Dan Snow, Suzannah Lipscomb, Lucy Worsley, Matt Lewis, Tristan Hughes and more. Get 50% off your first 3 months with code ANCIENTS. Download the app on your smart TV or in the app store or sign up here.You can take part in our listener survey here.For more Ancient's content, subscribe to our Ancient's newsletter here.

Hi, I'm Tristan Hughes, and if you would like the Ancient ad-free, get early access and bonus episodes, sign up to History Hit. With a History Hit subscription, you can also watch hundreds of hours of original documentaries, including my recent documentary all about Petra and the Nabataeans, and enjoy a new release every week. Sign up now by visiting historyhit.com slash subscribe. It's the Entrance on History Hit. I'm Tristan Hughes, your host, and in today's episode we're only going and talking about the scourge of God himself, Attila the Hun, supreme leader of the Huns in the West in the mid 5th century AD who led some bloody clashes against the Roman Empire, or should I say Roman Empires, both in the East and in the West. The name Attila the Hun is arguably one of the most well-known and one of the most infamous from ancient history today.

So what do we actually know about this figure and his life? Well, you're in for a treat because we haven't just got one episode dedicated to Attila, we've got two. We're going through his whole story and we're dividing it into two brilliant episodes with none other than Professor Hyun Jin Kim from the University of Melbourne. Hyun Jin, he's been on the podcast before. He was on a few years ago to talk all about the rise of the Huns. He's written all about the Huns. He knows all things Attila and it was a joy just to listen to him talk in detail about these various stages of Attila's life.

in detail about these various stages of Attila's life. I really do hope you enjoy, and without further ado, here's part one of our mega episode on Attila. Hyun Jin, it is wonderful to have you back on the podcast. Thank you for inviting me. You're more than welcome, and you're dialing in from Melbourne, so the other end of the world where I am in London. But once again, really appreciate it. And to talk about a topic like this, Attila. Now, I know there is so much more to Hunnic history than just this one figure. But it's fair to say that he has come down to us today as the big and the quite terrifying name

when someone mentions the Huns. Yes, I mean, he's the proverbial scourge of God, right? And everybody thinks that Ashura was the sort of Genghis Khan or Alexander the Great-like figure. And he's responsible for creating the Hunnic Empire, and he's also responsible for its downfall. Probably the second part of it is somewhat correct, but the first part of him creating the Hunnic Empire, that's definitely wrong, of course. There was a long history behind him. Well, let's explore that now, Hyunjin, as we go into the background. So the early 5th century AD, before Attila is ruling the Huns, what does the Hunnic Empire look like? Is it already pretty massive?

Oh, yes, absolutely. So before Attila becomes the king of the Huns, the Hunnic Empire already stretches from the Rhine in the west to the Volga River, or even beyond in the east. During the reign of Attila, Priscus reports that the Huns affected the conquest of the island and the ocean. So that's presumably Scandinavia. So before the reign of Ashela, the Huns had already conquered everything up to the Baltic Sea. To the south, of course, they had expanded as far as to Danube. So this is an empire that is at this point already larger than the Roman Empire. This is before Attila becomes king of the Huns. Do we know much about where the heartlands of the Huns almost were and where they spread out from to reach these great extents even before Attila takes the throne?

The original Urheimat, or the original home of the Huns, or the Northern Huns, I suppose. There were many different types of Huns in Central Asia, but we think that it or the Northern Huns, I suppose. There were many different types of Huns in Central Asia, but we think that it is the Northern Huns who emerged into Europe in roughly around about 370 AD. And so, their power base was originally what is now Kazakhstan. But of course, until the first two decades of the 5th century, it was primarily the region that we now identify as Eastern Ukraine, that is the center of the Hanukkah stage. But of course, Ashile is the person who moves that power base from that Eastern core to what is now Hungary. So he basically shifts the locus of power in the Hanukkah stage to Central Europe. And you also mentioned something really interesting there, Hyunjin, and I think it's

important to highlight now. When we're talking about the Huns and the Huns of Attila, are we talking about all of the Huns, or were there various different groups of Huns situated in different parts of the world at that time? Attila's Huns, right? The famous Huns that we all know about. So these are, of course, the European Huns. I've just described, of course, the size of that empire. But of course, there were the so-called White Huns. So these are the cousins, I suppose, of the European Huns. And they controlled what is now Central Asia, so Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, that area, and also northwestern India. This group, by the time of Ashila, was affecting the conquest of the Persian-Sassanian Empire. So shortly after Ashila's time, the Waisans actually do end up conquering the whole of Persia.

And so the Persian-Sassanian king becomes merely the puppet, really, of this Waisan Empire. So there's another Hanic empire that is directly to the southeast, I suppose, of the European Hans. And there is also a group of Hans called the Yueban or Chuban Hans in eastern Central Asia. And this group is, I suppose, the Blue Hans or the Eastern Hans. And they control the original territory of the Huns in Central Asia. But shortly after the death of Asila, this group is conquered by another steppe empire, that of the Ruron, or in some cases, they're identified with the later more famous Avars, although that connection is not quite certain. But anyway, that group conquers the Eastern Huns.

And so, by the time that Ashura dies, there is a huge migration of these fugitive peoples from Central Asia who are fleeing the so-called Avars and flooding into Eastern Hunnic territory. And that shares an interesting dynamic, which often is missed by historians. Why do the Huns fail to recover their western territories after Ashura's death? And that is because of this disturbance that they're encountering in the east. So, Priscus tells us that Ernak, the eventual successor of Ashura in the eastern half of the Hunnic Empire, he quarrels with his brother Dengizik, who is another son of Ashura, because Dengizik wants to invade the Eastern Roman Empire. And Udart tells him that I'm busy fighting wars in the East, right? So we don't have the manpower to launch this campaign. And so the two brothers basically

split. And Dengizhik goes on a full-hearted invasion of the Eastern Roman Empire with largely Gothic troops, which of course ends in failure. But that is, of course, much, much later. That is, of course, much, much later. And we'll definitely get to the succession of Attila a bit later. And the whole story of the White Huns, that other empire, is certainly worthy of a topic in its own right, of a podcast in its own right, and no doubt we will do one in the future. But let's therefore go back to the background of Attila's Huns, this European Hunnic empire that stretched all the way from the Volga to the Rhine. What politically does this empire look like? The political structure, do we know much about

the hierarchy, the organisation of this Hunnic empire pre-Attila? Well, pre-Attila, only snippets. It's Priscus who visited the Hanukkah court during the Raid of Attila who provides us with the best accounts of how this state was organized. But prior to Attila, there were other diplomats like Olympiodorus, for example, who tells us that the Huns had a supreme king, the highest king. And this highest king or emperor is supported in his duties by lesser kings, kings that the Romans refer to as regulus. So, for example, Uldin, who some historians mistake as the first king of the Huns known to history, he's not really the king. He's just a sub-king, a regulus. So, he's a vassal of some other king who we don't know by name.

And then shortly after the time of Wuldin, Karaton becomes the supreme king of the European Huns. And there is a sub-king by the name of Danarsus who serves under him. So this is a very hierarchical structure. And by the time of Asada, we know very clearly how the system is organized. It is a replica of the old Hunnic imperial system that used to exist in what is now Mongolia and Turkestan, whereby there is an emperor or Dargwa at the top. And the supreme king is then supported by two preeminent kings, the king of the east or the king of the

right, depending on which orientation that you're adopting, obviously. Then, of course, the king of the west. So, there are two preeminent kings in a dual structure. And then there are two other kings who are inferior to these two preeminent kings, but who rank just below, forming a college of four top-ranking kings. So in other words, there are five kings in total at the very top. And then there is a college of six kings below them. And Uldin, of course, as his name implies, so Uld in his name is a corruption of the Turkic Alt, which means six. So he's one of the six kings. So 10 sort of preeminent kings at the top, of course, with the emperor at the very top. And then below those kings, of course, a series of ranks,

which Priscus refers to as the logades, the picked men, right? These are aristocratic princes or courtiers who control the various provinces of the empire. And these picked men or court officials are also divided into eastern princes and western princes in a dual system. And so, in the banquet that Priscus is invited to at Ashela's court, these princes all take their sort of hierarchical positions. And so, Ashela, of course, being the supreme king, is seated in the most prominent place and to his right and left sit the next highest ranking kings on the same couch. So, his successor, the king of the east, Elok, his eldest son, is seated to his right, signifying that he is the king of the east. And then Attila's surviving uncle, Oibarsius, who is the king of the west, is seated to his left.

He's the next highest ranking king. You've got the emperor in the center, the kings of the east and west flanking him, and then all the other kings line up in descending order with the eastern princes outranking the western princes. It must have been such a mad logistical task to get all of those kings controlling such a vast territory into that one place for that one great feast, given that great size of the Hunnic Empire at that time. You mentioned Priscus there. When learning, when exploring the story of Attila, the sources that we have available for this figure, is it almost completely literature written by the Romans? Yes, unfortunately. So, Azula, well, there are legends later concerning

Azula, which survive in Norse tradition and also in Germanic tradition, where especially in the Germanic tradition where he is depicted as a very noble figure. Even in Roman sources, in Priscus, he is treated as a very noble figure, a dangerous enemy, obviously, but he is presented as a very just monarch who is not tempted by any kind of sort of decadent luxuries and that sort of thing. So, everybody at the banquet, they feast on dishes made of gold and silver, right, and fineries. But Ashura is having none of it, right? So none of these delicacies.

He just eats meat, and it's served on wooden plates, right? So he's very frugal, in other words, and he takes pride in his frugality. And he doesn't like sort of frivolous entertainment either. So this court clown that his brother Blader used to shave, a guy called Zircon, who mixes three languages together and the cosmopolitan sort of aristocrats who are assembled there, they understand all of these three languages. So Hunnic, which is a form of Turkic, then Gothic, and then Latin.

So all the three languages are actually understood by the aristocrats assembled in Attila's gorge. So, Zircon mixes the three languages together in this comical sort of speech, and everybody bursts out laughing, and Priscus notices that the only person who is not amused is Attila, right? So, he is presented as a very, very serious figure. But then, so contemporary sources, Galatia, Germanic tradition presents him in a reasonably favorable light. But of course, the person who is most responsible for turning him into this, you know, terrible sort of scourge of God, you know, figure is, of course, Jordanes, who is a Gothic historian,

who is writing 100 years later in the Eastern Roman Empire, who basically rewrites everything. In Jordanes' history, everybody looks bad except his Goths. It's a major rewrite of the history of the period from a Gothic perspective. And he does a lot of strange things in order to basically make his Gothss look invincible. And so they always win despite situations which clearly suggest otherwise, right? So gothic kings keep getting killed. So they win the battle regardless, that sort of thing. But anyway, there we find the cruel Asila, the dangerous barbarian, that kind of image.

Although it's not entirely negative either, even there, but still Jordanians is the person who creates that image of Attila. And clearly, because this actually seems very important for any talk about Attila, not just the Romans and the Huns, but also these other people who are really closely entwined with his story and what he does, which are the Goths. I mean, who are the Goths at this time, Hyunjin? The Goths are originally a Germanic people who seem to have migrated from somewhere from the Baltic coastal regions to what is now Ukraine and Romania. Now, the Goths were not a homogenous group. So various sources are confused about their origins. Yes, we do know that the main language that most of their people spoke was a Germanic

language. But if you look at the names of the Gothic leaders, their aristocratic elites, some of them do have Germanic names, but many others have Iranian Sarmatian names. So they had an elite which mingled Germanic language speakers and Iranian language speakers. This was before the Hunnic conquest, by the way. And of course, there was also a large Dacian and Gettic population in their confederacy as well. So this is a very hybrid entity, even before the Hunnic conquest. The Eastern Goths, who are called the Groitungs, the Groitungi, who are called the Groytungs, the Groytungi, are basically steppe peoples. They are very similar to the Alans and the Huns in many ways. They are ruled by very powerful kings. Their aristocracy

is probably of non-Germanic Sarmatian origin. Then there is the Western Goths, the Tervingi Goths, who are more similar to the Western Germanic Confederacies. And both these groups, of course, are conquered by the Huns. The Grosvengs almost entirely by the Huns. Many of the Tervingi managed to escape into Roman territory. And once there, the Tervingi are mixed with the Fugitive Alans. So the Alans, another group that's been conquered

by the Huns, some of them, of course, are subjugated by the Huns. Many others flee into Roman territory. And the Alans mingle with the Goths, and the Goths also pick up recruits in the Balkans. And they become this very, very hybrid entity. They ravage the Balkan provinces of the Roman Empire, and then, of course, famously sack Rome under their king Alaric. And then after Alaric dies, his brother-in-law, I believe, Atalf, then leads an army consisting of Goths and many other peoples into Gaul. So who are the Goths? There are some Goths who are living under the Huns, who are ruled by Hunnic princes. Valimer, for example, who is the king of the Goths, he is a Hun.

He's a Hun who's been given control of the Goths. Valimer has two brothers, Thudamer and Vidimer. Given the fact that Valimer is a Hunnic prince, those two must also be Huns too, right? Because they're his brothers. And of course, Valimer has a nephew called Theodoric. It's a little bit unclear as to whether Theodoric is actually his nephew or his bastard son, but most people think he's the nephew. And so Theodoric then, of course, later becomes the famous king of the Austro-Goths who ruled Italy. And so the Goths, like the Huns, are a very, very complex grouping.

A very, very complex grouping indeed. And I think it was important to explain who they were as we delve into Attila's story. Hello, host of Dan Snow's History Hit Podcast here. History isn't just dates and facts. It's about the incredible stories that shape our world. Three times a week on my podcast, my expert guests and I bring you extraordinary stories of heroism, discovery, mystery, and power. Expect tales of lost tombs, daring escapes, power-hungry rulers, and those determined to bring them all down. Let's focus in on Attila. We've talked about him a bit at that feast a bit earlier,

but do we know much about his rise to the kingship? Does he go from a humble background to the kingship? I mean, what do we know about that earlier stage in Attila's life? Yes, so Attila, well, we know very little about Attila prior to him becoming king, but we do know that he's the son of Munzuk, the elder brother of King Ruga or King Ruga of the Huns, who was the supreme king of the Huns prior to the rise of his nephews, Blazer and Attila to the Hunnic throne. So Munzuk is the elder brother of Ruger, but he seems to have died early after siring his two sons, Blazer and Ashela. So, Ashela is blue blood, right? He's born in the purple, as it were. And if his father had lived long, of course, his father would probably have been king of the Huns, the high king of the Huns.

But of course, that does not happen because he was out of the picture. And so, Munzuk's younger brother Ruger, the uncle of Asura and Bleda, become the king. There is another uncle, Oktar, who is the king of the West, right? So, the imperial viceroy, as it were, is Oktar. But Oktar seems to have suffered from some kind of an ambush when he was campaigning in Germany. And there was a group of, well, confederation of peoples called the Burgundians who were situated further east but were driven towards the Rhine by the Huns. And so, Oktar was campaigning in that area and nobody really knows what happened. So, there is a very sort of mythologized version of what happened. And it appears that either Oktar was assassinated or something happened, right?

Some event which caused the Huns a bit of embarrassment. So, Oktar dies. And of course, the Burgundians pay for this very dearly later. So, the Huns of course annihilate the Burgundians. This is celebrated in the later medieval German epic, the Nibelungenlied, which features Siegfried. And so, King Edsel of the Huns, who is Attila, annihilates the Burgundians and kills their king, Gunthar and what have you. Now, because that is a very, very late sort of medieval epic, we can't be sure whether

Assyria led this campaign against the Burgundians and whether he was the Hunnic prince who destroyed the Burgundians or not. But his name is associated with the annihilation of the Burgundians in later tradition. And the only other thing that we know about Attila before he becomes king is that he was somehow associated with the Gepids. This is another Germanic people who were moved by the Huns to Eastern Hungary. And Attila is called a Gepid Hun. So in other words, he's obviously a Hunnic prince,

but he rules the Germanic confederacy of the Gepids before his ascension to the imperial throne. So that's the only thing that we know about him, really, is he was associated with the Gepids. So when Assela becomes the supreme king, the Gepids suddenly become very important. And so, Alderic, who is the sub-king of the Gepids, becomes basically, well, according to Jordanes anyway, if we trust him, he becomes a sort of right-hand man of Asphoda, according to Jordanes. But Ardoric isn't mentioned at all by Priscus.

So, that's another thing. So, according to Jordanes, Ardoric is a very important figure, but not according to Priscus. He's not even mentioned. So it depends. So anyway, the capets do appear to be relatively important because of Attila's early associations with him. So Attila rises to the throne, and I've got on my notes 434 AD. Correct me if I'm wrong there,

Hyunjin. Actually, a bit later. So we're a bit unsure as to when Ruger died. Most people think 434, perhaps 435. The dates are a little bit uncertain. But anyway, by the middle of the 430s, Blader is the king. So Bleda, of course, the elder brother of Ashela. Now that succession was not uncontested. So there are a bunch of Hunnic princes

who end up fleeing from Bleda to Constantinople. So Bleda and Ashela demand that these fugitive princes be handed back to them. So there was some kind

of a family squabble amongst the relatives of Ruga to determine who was going to be the next king. But so, Bleda is the eventual victor, and he is the emperor or the high king. Now, Assela gradually rises, it appears, in the ranks. And by the time that the Huns wage their first big war against the Romans in 441. When the Huns negotiate with the Romans, Blader and Assela are involved in the negotiations. So, Assela is almost treated like Blader's equal. And so, the Roman ambassadors refer to them as the kings of the Huns. Although earlier,

the successor of Rugo was clearly Blader. So, Assela's stars are rising. And shortly thereafter, Aspyridus' stars are rising. And shortly thereafter, Blader is eliminated in a coup by Aspyridus. And Aspyridus is firmly king of the Huns by the middle of the 440s. By 445, thereabouts, Aspyridus is supreme king or emperor of the Huns. So that is absolutely brutal by Aspyridus though, isn't it? So Blader is his older brother, So that is absolutely brutal by Attila though, isn't it? So Blazer is his older brother, and yet he gets rid of him in his quest ultimately for the top position in the Hanukkai. He's not going to sit for anything else.

He's wanted that top place. Yes. So in other words, this is the first usurpation that we know of in the Hanukkai system. There were squabbles over the throne when the Supreme King dies. Of course, there is the usual sort of tit for tat at the Council of Princes. And of course, there was some political maneuvering there, but rarely did this lead to some kind of civil conflict. But Ashura obviously precipitated his rise to the throne by unjust means. Let's put

it that way. And so, when Bleda is removed, many of the princes in the East, they rebel. So, the most powerful Hunnic thief in the East, the Akatsiri Huns in Ukraine, start to plan a revolt against Ashura. And so, Ashura has to send an army to squash that revolt later. He's fortunate because Korydakos, who is a very high-ranking sub-king amongst the Akatsiri, conspires with Atina against his allies. So the rebellion is squashed early. And Alok, of course, the eldest son of Atina becomes the new king of the Akatsiri and is made the crown prince, the king of the East. So Attila has dealt with these internal issues once he's usurped Plata and removed his elder brother. Now he has consolidated

his sole rule at the top. What does he decide to do next? Does he start looking towards the Roman Empire? Yes. So prior to the rise of Attila, the Huns of course had numerous collisions with Eastern Roman Empire in particular. So Ruger was in the process of invading the Eastern Roman Empire when he suddenly died. And so Theodosius celebrated a triumph over the Huns despite the fact that he was defeated on the field. And Theodosius, he's the emperor of the Eastern Roman Empire I'm presuming at that time. Yes, Theodosius, he's the emperor of the Eastern Roman Empire, I'm presuming at that time. Yes, Theodosius II, right? So, Ruger dies. And then, of course, Blaise and Attila launch a war against the Romans in 441, which ends in a Hunnic victory.

And the Roman emperor agrees to pay tribute, an increased tribute to the Huns. And then, of course, right after he ascends the throne, Ashura needs to prove himself. And so, he launches an even greater war against the Eastern Romans in 447. He basically sacks every Roman fortification in the Balkans and lays waste virtually the entirety of the Nubian provinces of the Eastern Romans. He destroys three Eastern Roman armies. of the Eastern Romans. He destroys three Eastern Roman armies. It's a campaign of annihilation, basically. And so, the Eastern Romans then have to pay an enormous tribute. There is a token tribute that is paid to the honey king himself, but then Assela demands that all the prisoners he's captured from the Romans in this war, hundreds and thousands of people, all have to

be ransomed by Constantinople. So, of course, this is an enormous amount of money that he's requesting. And the Eastern Romans have no choice but to oblige. So, earlier, when the Huns waged war against the Romans, they would capture people and sort of drag them back to Hunnic territory and settle them in territory that they controlled. But they would not engage in this sort of extortion. But Asselin engages in something which was unheard of. He holds an entire population to ransom. And why is he doing that?

Presumably because he needs to reward a lot of the people who have helped him usurp the throne. So he's insecure in his position. So he needs to show extraordinary largesse in order to keep his vassals happy. And so that's what he does. He just completely humiliates the Eastern Romans. And by making them pay, he not only stabilizes his position amongst the various Hanukkah military leaders, but also financially rewards them.

It's fascinating how you see again and again in so many different ancient societies, this need by sometimes by a new king, particularly if they're from a new dynasty or they've had a rocky way to the throne, that they immediately go on a big military campaign to kind of secure their control. And this one, as you've mentioned mentioned it sounded like it was absolutely devastating for the eastern roman empire in the balkans you mentioned tributes there and i think i remember this from our last chat but with the whole hunnic ideology and the mission of the huns their foreign policy how important was gaining of tributes from defeated enemies? And was that more important than, let's say, actually gaining physical land and territory?

Absolutely. The Hunnic Empire is a traditional inner Asian tributary empire. And people often sort of are perplexed when they look at the sums that are requested by the Hunnic kings from the Romans as tribute, it is not that much. It is a hefty sum, but not the end of the world if the Romans pay up. So, what is the point of this gold? And some people have suggested that this was the gold that was needed to feed the Hunnic aristocracy. That would have barely made a dent anywhere, right? So, in other words, that tribute is symbolic. What the Huns were after was not food to feed their sort of people. They had plenty of food. What they were after was tokens of submission because the Hunnic kings saw themselves as universal rulers. So, nobody was their. And the Roman emperors were regarded as vassal kings

or would-be vassal kings who needed to be subdued. But the Huns are not really interested in taking territory away from the Romans because their empire is large enough already. So controlling yet more territory was, administratively speaking, quite a burden. And so Asla actually annexes a swath of territory south of the Danube after 447. And then a couple of years later, in subsequent negotiations with Eastern Romans, he actually tells the Roman ambassadors that he's willing to give the territory back. He doesn't care about this land south of the Danube. And he says, you can take it back if you like. I mean, he doesn't end up giving it back to the Romans. But the very fact that he negotiates for the return of this land to the Eastern Romans

is telling. It wasn't his intention to conquer the Eastern Roman Empire, Outraish. He wanted to subdue the Romans and reduce them to tributary stations. And in the funerary dirge that is sang by the Huns after the death of Assela, the Huns praise the deeds of Assela. And in that dirge, they tell us something very interesting. They say that Assela was undefeated and unvanquished during his lifetime. That's one thing that they tell us. And secondly, they say that he subjected both halves of the Roman Empire to tributary stages, to the payment of tribute. So, in other words, he made the Romans subjects of the Huns. So, that was the impression or that was the belief of the Huns that

the Roman emperors were the subjects of the Hunnic king. And Priscus tells us that Asphodel regarded the Roman emperors to be the equal of his generals. So, he didn't think much of them. Well, you've given a hint there, the other Roman Empire. So we'll go to the Roman Empire in the West in a moment and Attila's interactions with them, arguably perhaps the most infamous or famous part of Attila's conquests. But before that, if you were, let's say, a diplomat or an ambassador from the Eastern Roman Empire, someone like Priscus, and you were going to the court of Attila back in his kingdom, let's say away from the feast that we've mentioned earlier. What did

the court of Attila look like? What was expected of a Hunnic ruler and where his seat of power was almost? Yeah, so we have no way of knowing what the Hunnic sort of capital in the East looked like. We have no descriptions of it. But we do have a description of Ashla's capital in what is now Hungary. This was not a very impressive town from Priscus' perspective, right? There were many big buildings, obviously, and he noticed that there were bathhouses, and there were palaces there. So, Assela obviously had the biggest palace in this capital.

And then Onagesius, who was sort of Assela's right-hand man or grand vizier, had the second largest palace. So, contrary to popular perception, which regards the Huns to be nomads and pastoralists, by this time, they had sedentary settlements. So Priscus notices that there are many, many settlements, and these rural settlements are controlled by Hunnic thief-holders. So Beric, for example, who is a Hunnic nobleman, a high-ranking Hunnic nobleman, he owns a lot of villages in Scythia. ranking Hunnic nobleman. He owns a lot of villages in Scythia. Blader's ex-wife also has a village that has been allocated to her as fief. And so it's a very, for want of a better term,

a quasi-feudal society in which territory and peoples and settlements are distributed to aristocratic and royal thief holders. Now, that's what Priscus describes. And I guess also, if you're focusing on Attila himself, if he's in this palace, would we also expect, would he be approachable by people, let's say, theoretically, and that he's almost the arbiter in chief? He's the chief. Lawgivers the wrong word, but he could almost be aiter in chief. He's the chief. Lawgiver's the wrong word, but he could almost be a court of appeal like a Roman emperor theoretically could be. And also, if you approached him, would he also have lots of his children about or would he have several wives? What do we know about that kind of part of Attila's life? Basically, Attila as a

ruler away from the military and the front line of war? The Romans try to bribe one of the Hunnic princes who visits Constantinople as an envoy. It's a guy called Edico, who is a Hunnic noble. And he, of course, is the father of the notorious Otto Acker, who later dethrones the last Western Roman emperor, Romulus Augustulus. Romulus Augustulus, for his part, is the son of a surgeon Orestes, who was Assela's secretary. It's all in the family. But anyway, so Erecho is propositioned by the Eastern Romans, and they try to bribe him into assassinating Assela. And he sort of leads the Romans on, pretending that he's going to assassinate the king. And then, of course, as soon as he gets to the Hunnic capital, he tells Assela that this is what happened,

and they try to bribe him. And of course, Assela forgives Zedekoe for indulging the Romans and then let the Romans know his displeasure. He doesn't execute the ambassadors, obviously, but he shows his displeasure, but also displays his clemency, as it were, right? And so, Giordano has this passage where he says that there were 50 or so kings, or kings not befitting that name, who were like a bunch of slaves, right? So, they were cowering before Rassula, and they were, you know, petrified every time that he turned his gaze towards them and that sort of thing. So, he's presented as this tyrant who everybody's afraid of. But what these passages do allude to

is that the Hun king was, of course, responsible for the dispensation of justice. He was the equivalent of the Supreme Court, I suppose. And there was also a bureaucracy surrounding Asada. So there were a bunch of scribes who were writing down everything, present the Roman ambassadors with lists of fugitives who fled and all the sort of treaties, sort of stipulations that the Romans have violated, making those sorts of complaints. So the Huns do have a clear idea of what is right and wrong, certainly. But given the dearth of the evidence that we have, this is something that we know a little bit about. How did the Huns administer justice? But Defector, from the Romans to the Huns, tells the Roman ambassador that living under the Huns is far more preferable than living under a very corrupt Eastern Roman government, and says that actually, in the Hunnic state, we have justice. But that's

about it, right? And of course, the Romans, they have a rhetorical debate. Whether that conversation ever happened or not, of course, that's another question. But there is an indication that the Romans were afraid of Roman subjects defecting to the Huns because there was actually quite a sizable number of Roman citizens who actually worked for the Huns. Chief among them, of course, Orestes, who becomes the father of the last Western Roman emperor, and another famous figure, Aetius, who also worked for the Huns, which is something that people often forget. Aetius is remembered as the last Roman or the magister militant, the Roman generalissimo, but he was actually a Hunnic subject. And the Hunnic kings, Ruga and Blader, regarded him as their vassal, as their governor.

That's why he is given Hunnic troops for all his endeavors, right? So this is no, you know, sort of hostage or some people have argued that Aetius was hiring Hunnic mercenaries. No, he's not hiring mercenaries. He is given armies to command by the Hunnic kings. One of the armies that he's given numbers 60,000. So, that's literally the entire Hunnic army in the West that he's given command of. So, Aetius was a very high-ranking official in the Hunnic hierarchy. That's for assertion. And this is a very interesting person because he plays both sides.

To the Huns, he is definitely a royal subject of the Hunnic king. But to the Romans, he is the magisterium militant. He's the Roman general. But he's basically independent of both in practice, right? He's a warlord out for his own benefits, so to speak. Aetius is such a fascinating figure. We're going to get to him very soon. I mean, just keeping on Attila's court one bit longer, do we know much about his wives or his children at the court? Let's say even at this time before he dies

and before he's launched this campaign into the West. Yeah. So like all chronic kings, Asherah was polygamous. We are not sure as to whether he had a principal wife. Blader seems to have had a principal wife. So I suppose we could assume that Asherah had a queen, but he had many sort of wives that he fav favored. And we do know the names of some of his wives. He had many sons according to Priscus, but he apparently did not think highly of any of them. And so, the only son that he supposedly favored was Enoch, his youngest. And Priscus, he's writing with hindsight, right? So, he says that

Asselin was told a prophecy that his race, in other words, his dynasty would fail after his death, but that Enoch, this prodigy, would restore everything after he's passed away. So, that's why he favors Enoch. And that's exactly what happened, of course. Enoch was Attila's eventual successor. And so Priscus, who knows this, sort of inserts that narrative into the narrative of his visit to Attila's court, but probably fictitious. Regardless, at that time, therefore, if we're getting to those mid-40s AD before Attila really goes far west and Aetius becomes this great enemy of Attila. At this time in Attila's reign he's already got this massive tribute from the eastern Roman empire his name is spreading far and wide. Can we almost say that he's almost nearing the zenith of his own rise at this time

because of that first incredibly ruthless campaign and now that power which that money brought and that reputation brought, which leads him on to his future conquests? Yeah, so he's at the height of his power. He has just captured 70 fortified cities from the Romans and the Balkans alone. So this was an enormous shock to the Eastern Romans because the earlier barbarian invaders, from the Roman perspective that is, so these invaders who had invaded Eastern Roman territory, they did ravage the countryside, but because they lacked sufficient siege equipment, they failed to take any of these fortified cities.

But the Huns were different. They were able to capture these fortified settlements at will. They had the requisite siege weapons. And so, the damage that was inflicted on Roman authority in the Balkans was enormous. So, 50 years after this War of 447, the Eastern Romans still do not control much of the territory south of the Danube. And there are barbarian armies marauding all over the Balkans, and the imperial cause can do nothing about it. It's only by the time of Justinian in the 6th century that the Romans start re-fortifying some of these places in order to stop a Bulgarian invasion at that time.

So, the War of 447 was devastating for the Eastern Romans. And of course, Assyria then decides to invade the Western Roman Empire, which is a break from what had happened prior to his reign. The Huns did intervene actively in Western Roman affairs prior to this, but many people have argued that the Huns had good relations with the Western Romans, but very poor relations with the Eastern Romans. Now, that is an inaccurate statement. Yes, the Huns had poor relations with the Eastern Romans and frequently invaded the Eastern Roman Empire, but they also invaded the Western Roman Empire too prior to Asila. It's just that they had a good relationship with Aeacius,

not with the Western Romans per se. They had a good relation with Aeacius. Why? Not because they thought of him as the Western Roman generalissimo or the prince of the Romans, but because they saw him as their vassal. So, the only reason why the Western Roman territories remained relatively unscathed prior to Attila's invasion was because the Huns thought this territory was being ruled by their vassal. And so Aetius very cleverly managed to sort of maintain that facade until it broke to pieces. Well, Hyunjin, that will be the end of our first part of this interview about Attila. It's been fascinating so far, but as you've been hinting at there, with Attila looking west, with Aishis,

we're building up to the great climax, aren't we, of Attila? There's still much more to come. Indeed. Well, there you go. A cliffhanger to end the first part of our mega episode all about Attila the Hun. With none other than the fantastic Professor Hyunjin Kim, I really do hope you enjoyed the episode and don't you worry, we are going to be continuing the story of Attila as he turns his gaze west to the likes of Aetius very, very soon. Stay tuned for that, Hyunjin is going to be back very very shortly in the meantime

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