The Ancients - Hephaestus: God of Fire

Episode Date: January 8, 2023

This episode contains references to sexual assault and terms for groups which were classified that way at the time.Hephaestus, son of Zeus and Hera, is the God of fire and foundry in Greek mythology.He is the only god with a disability, a part of his identity that becomes a double-edged sword. Often treated disparagingly by the rest of the Greek pantheon as a result, chiefly by his own mother, Hera, who in some versions of mythology throws him off Mount Olympus she’s so ashamed of him, it also becomes a key component of his wisdom and creativity, using his blacksmith powers for both good and bad. In this episode, Tristan Hughes is joined by University of Oxford’s Dr Steve Kershaw where together they discuss Hephaestus’s origin story, his controversial marriage to Aphrodite, and why in Dr Kershaw’s words, he is “the god that should never be underestimated”. The Senior Producer was Elena GuthrieScript written by Andrew HulseVoice over performed by Nichola WoolleyThe Assistant Producer was Annie ColoeIf you enjoyed this episode, you might also enjoy other episodes in the series: Zeus: King of the Gods and Hera: Queen of the Gods.For more Ancients content, subscribe to our Ancients newsletter here. If you'd like to learn even more, we have hundreds of history documentaries, ad free podcasts and audiobooks at History Hit - enter promo code ANCIENTS for a free trial, plus 50% off your first three months' subscription.To download, go to Android > or Apple store >

Hi, I'm Tristan Hughes, and if you would like the Ancient ad-free, get early access and bonus episodes, sign up to History Hit. With a History Hit subscription, you can also watch hundreds of hours of original documentaries, including my recent documentary all about Petra and the Nabataeans, and enjoy a new release every week. Sign up now by visiting historyhit.com slash subscribe. sea and sky. That is the advice King Cadmus seeks. You see, it is his wedding day. He is to marry the divine Hermonia, the bastard daughter of Ares and Aphrodite. But Cadmus is no fool. Weddings, he knows, can be contentious affairs, none more so than the weddings between gods and mortals. fairs, none more so than the weddings between gods and mortals. Golden apples, divine contests, even the theft of brides. No. Cadmus has no intention of becoming the Muses' next cautionary tale. And so, he asks the company of sisters to sing a story of each new guest as they arrive.

Forewarned is forearmed. So, what will they sing of this most recent guest? This great bearded god who shuffles and stumbles and hobbles into the bronze-floored hall of Olympus. His eyes are like holes in a forger's grate. Behind them rages a ferocious flame. This is such blackened Hephaestus. Smiths, rites, makers, every artifice of the world over pays him homage. rights, makers, every artifice of the world over pays him homage. He is the god of the foundry,

and he was Aphrodite's husband. The muses have quite a story to tell of him. It's the Ancients on History Hit. I'm Tristan Hughes, your host, and in today's podcast, well, we are continuing our cracking form at the start of 2023. We've done the first writing, and today we are continuing our special series about the Greek gods and goddesses. We've done Zeus, we've done Hera, and now it's the time of Hephaestus, the god of fire, of blacksmiths, also a very cunning god too, the son of Zeus and Hera. Now if you haven't listened to the other ones we've released so far, definitely do check those out. Zeus and Hera with Professor Michael Scott and Dr Ellie Mackin Roberts respectively. Do have a listen to those because they're great on the one hand, but you'll also notice that these episodes, well, they're a bit different in their format.

And that's because we're doing something different for this special mini-series, which has been crafted by our lead producer, the legend that is Elena Guthrie. Now, these Greek myths, they were oral stories back in ancient history in ancient Greek time so we wanted to give you a sense of how they might have sounded to the people who would have heard them to the people of ancient Greece and so before our interview the main crux of this episode we're going to give you a story, a special performance of one of the many versions of these myths that surround the Greek god of fire, that surround Hephaestus. But stick around because as mentioned following this story, you're going to hear another brilliant

conversation, an interview about Hephaestus with the expert, with the legend, that is Dr Steve Kershaw from Oxford University. We are going to delve into the myths of Hephaestus and the importance of this figure, of this ancient Greek deity in antiquity. So without further ado, to talk all about the Greek god Hephaestus, here's a story surrounding the god of fire, and then here's Steve to talk all about him. When Hephaestus is born, his mother, Royal Hera, is appalled by him. His leg is twisted and his foot is clubbed. Hera's shame is matched only by her cruelty. Without a moment of doubt, without a drop of mercy, the queen of the gods hurls her

newborn babe from Olympus. It takes nine days for him to make landfall in Lemnos. A crater is his first cradle. The people of the island take him in. They are artisans all, and they train their fosterling in the same. A clang of hammers is his first lullaby. He learns quickly. Even a fallen god is still a god, and so such blackened Hephaestus' talent for artifice is uncanny. The stuff of prodigy.

Armour from his anvil is impenetrable. His blades need never know a whetstone's kiss. And yet, for all the strength of his arms, for all the speed of his mind, his legs remain slow and stunted. He is no warrior. Wielding his own arms and armour will not see him reclaim his rightful place upon Olympus, nor enact his revenge against royal Hera. He must be craftier than that. craftier than that. And so, in this foundry beneath Lemnos, he contrives a gift for his mother, a majestic throne to stand beside that of Zeus on Olympus. But the throne is

a web, and a feistus has spun it like a spider. He takes adamantine and exposes it to hammer and heat. He draws, he duts, he extrudes until finally he forges a single perfect link. It is to a chain as a single word is to a speech. His indictment of here is abandonment writ in metal. Ten thousand links long, he hides this chain in the throne's arms, a trap. And the moment Hera takes a seat, it is sprung. The chains wrap about her until she is little more than a fly in a gossamer prison. she is little more than a fly in a gossamer prison. She may strain, she may strive,

but every movement serves only to ensnare her further. None of the other gods can release her, not even warlike Harry's own adamantine sword can break the chain. Hephaestus has tempered each link with the flame of his anger. Finally, Zeus, father of gods and men, is left with no option but to bargain. He offers the soot-blackened god his daughter, flawless Aphrodite, and only when their marriage is made and his position on Olympus assured, does Hephaestus at last release his mother. But Hephaestus and Aphrodite are a poor match. Their incompatibility is fundamental. Sucked, staining marble. And while he may love her, she does not love him.

How could she? She already loves another, warlike Ares. It does not take long for their infatuations to be acted upon. One day, the next, then another and another until every day that follows while Hephaestus works his forge in Lemnos. He is not ignorant of his wife's betrayal. She has begun to grow round with child, but the such-blackened god can hardly challenge warlike Ares and his adamantine blade. He must be craftier than that. And so Hephaestus contrives another trap. Once

again, he takes adamantine and exposes it to hammer and heat. Once again, he forges a single, perfect link. It is to a chain as a single word is to a speech, his accusation of Aphrodite's betrayal ripped in metal. Ten thousand links long, he weaves the chain into the canopy of their bed, a trap, and the moment the lovers lie together, it is sprung. They are little more than flies chained in a gossamer prison. Hephaestus invites all Olympus to his hall to witness the lovers' disgrace. Of course, none can break the chains, so once again Zeus is left with no option but to bargain.

Hephaestus will keep the dowry, but the marriage is annulled so that all the deathless might know that the child Aphrodite carries is not of Hephaestus, but of Ares. That is where the muses bring their story of the guest to a close. For that child, they explain to King Cadmus, is his intended, the divine Harmonia. Except Cadmus is no longer listening. He has seen Hephaestus cross the hall toward his bride. He has seen that the soot-blackened god bears a wedding present. The other guests are a throng impenetrable as a shield wall, and Cadmus can only watch

as Ammonia accepts the gift, as the great artificer fixes it about her throat. The necklace is as light as gossamer. It is adamantine, exposed to hammer and heat. It is a chain. Ten thousand links long. Steve, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast today. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here. Delighted to be here. You already, I can tell how energetic you are and how you're sounding. So I'm very much looking forward to this chat, Steve. And Hephaestus, continuing the Gods and Goddesses series on the ancients this god he seems to be

the master of metalworking very much that's his that's his thing he's an extraordinary character I think amongst the 12 Olympian gods but yeah he's the god of a fire of blacksmiths craftsmen you know metallurgy in general. He does a bit of carpentry and sculpture as well, you know, and throw in a volcano or two and there you've got your man. So set the scene therefore, who exactly was Hephaestus as a god

and where does he sit in the pantheon of these Greek gods? Yeah, I mean, he's one of the 12 Olympian gods there and his area really is fire and technology. So he's there about the power of fire in the natural world, which comes out of the ground in terms of volcanoes. But particularly, I think, in the harnessing of fire towards technology and the arts and manufacturers. It's that kind of thing. It's, if you like, the productive and cultural arts and manufacturers. It's that kind of thing. It's the, if you like, the productive and cultural use of fire

is very much one of his things. And does he have any defining characteristics in how he's depicted, let's say? Yeah, he is. I mean, he's, and this is interesting as well, because he's a, you know, he's a blacksmith. So he's, on the one hand, he's a powerful, muscular guy. He spends his time in a blacksmith's forge,

so he's well-muscled up, sweaty, and that kind of thing. But at the same time, he's also, to an extent, physically disabled. He's lame as well, which is, again, one of his defining characteristics too. So he's a kind of curious amalgam between amazing sort of upper body physical power and weakness in his legs, in a sense. This comes through in the art to an extent. He's often a big bearded man. He holds blacksmith's equipment. He's got hammers and tongs, you know, all the tools you'd expect of holds blacksmith's equipment he's got hammers and tongs you know all the tools you'd

expect of a blacksmith and you see him at work a lot of the time making crazy stuff he's great but then on the other hand he's he has disparaging images as well sometimes he's shown riding on a donkey very often in order to sort of express his physical disability and his lameness particularly sometimes his feet are facing backwards it can make extraordinary images I think just to make that point to viewers of the art. And also I know it's got one thing here and it seems really striking a couple of these artistic depictions he almost has a wheelchair chariot or something like that Steve. That's right he, because he kind of needs walking aids. Sometimes he's said to be, despite his lameness, he's said to be quite sprightly.

But he also has things that he makes for himself as well. He's a great artisan, so he has special, almost like walking aids, but they're in the form of golden human young women that he's made for himself quite extraordinary and it's it's such an extraordinary portrayal depiction of Hephaestus compared to the other gods and goddesses in the pantheon isn't it I mean come on Steve let's go to the origins let's get it all started because it is a great story in itself how does Hephaestus and I'm presuming there are several different versions but I mean how does Hephaestus how does he come to be? There are inevitably with Greek myths there are gazillions of different versions this is the nature of Greek

mythology the emperor Tiberius at Rome used to tease academics about this where he'd ask them deliberately awkward questions you know who was the mother of so-and-so? And because there's like 25 different answers, he reveled in making their life hell. But the birth stories of Hephaestus are a bit on the complex side. But in Homer, he's the son of Zeus and Hera. It's fairly straightforward. But there are later traditions that say that he doesn't have a father and that Hera, Zeus's wife, gives birth to him, creates him because she's jealous of Zeus, who has given birth to Athena without the intervention of women as well so she kind of just gets her own back on her husband they never have a good relationship so she gets her own back on her husband by if you like conceiving on her own account just to to show him what's what so that's a strange story but it's it's weird because the other thing is

that the mythical tradition is hugely diverse in so many ways and mythical chronology never makes sense. You should never ever expect a coherent chronology in the world of the Greek myths because that version of it goes against another story of the birth of Athena that Hephaestus was already there. Hephaestus was already there and that he split Zeus's head with an axe in order to liberate Athena from Zeus's head. So never try to make sense of chronology in Greek myth, it didn't work like that. And just to throw one more into the mix, if you really want it, there's another tradition as well, is that Hephaestus comes this time from the thigh of Hera and for quite a long time she keeps him in ignorance of his parentage she won't let him know who his parents are because she's ashamed of it and in the end of course he finds nimble ways of finding out by because he has these incredible skills at making things so he makes a special chair or a throne and anyone who sits on it gets irrevocably stuck on it and this is what he does to Hera until she's prepared to tell him actually

who his parents really are. In regards to mother-son relationships it really feels that the relationship between Hera and Hephaestus it's not the best of ones, is it? No, it isn't. I mean, it has its moments of goodness. You know, there's times when he sticks up for her against Zeus, but generally not. No, she's, one of the ways they express it is that it's to do with the fire thing, how a little spark can create a great conflagration, but the spark is weak at its moment of conception, and that's what Hephaestus is like. And Hera doesn't like this. She hates his weakness.

So she just wants to reject him, really. So she throws him off Mount Olympus. A bit of a wow moment, really, because Mount Olympus is pretty high. If you've been there, it's higher in mythology than it is in reality as well. And it takes him pretty much a day to fall to ground. And he falls actually onto the island of Lemnos in Greece,

which becomes his special place, if you like. So in these stories, therefore, so Hephaestus, during his earlier years, dare I say, he spent some time in the mortal world away from Mount Olympus. Yes, he does. What happens is he gets rescued by a sort of minor sea goddess who's called Thetis. So he ends up on Lemnos Island and grows up there

among the local mortals who are called the Sintians. And it becomes a key moment in his life because it's there in many of the traditions that he learns these metallurgical skills and the crafts and the arts that are going to define him as a god. And so how does he therefore go from the island of Lemnos? And once again, I appreciate there must be so many different versions. But the story of his return to Olympus, what is is this story how he I guess returns and takes his seat in this pantheon of gods and goddesses yeah so it's in some accounts anyway he's um there's the golden chair thing that he makes to trap his mum Hera and eventually she is released it's it's Dionysus kind of comes and has a word with him and he sort of finds all that out and what have you and eventually he

gets released so he's kind of rehabilitated into into Olympus in that in that respect and he ends up then married to the most beautiful female in the universe to the goddess Aphrodite who's the the goddess of love there is no mortal female creature more beautiful than her. Wow. OK. I mean, Hephaestus, it doesn't seem like he's blessed with the most beautiful of looks. How does Aphrodite react to all of this in the stories? She's not that keen, really.

It's, you know, she's... Essentially what happens is that it's not the happiest of marriages. One of the incidents, key incidents, I think, is that Aphrodite starts an affair with Ares, who's the god of war. On the one hand, you've got a powerful, lame, sweaty, smelly husband who's working at a blacksmith forge all day. And then you've got hunky, muscled-up war god. She likes him much more, so she starts an extramarital affair with Ares, the god of war, completely underestimating her husband's wiliness and skills in order to get his own back. Because isn't this the other key thing about Hephaestus, Steve? Although, as you mentioned, he's a great blacksmith, but he also

has so much. He's very wise. He's very intelligent. He's very crafty, too. Absolutely. He's very wise, he's very intelligent, he's very crafty too. Absolutely. He's got lots of skills that are beyond the skills of his hands. He's mentally nimble and he's able to defuse situations. There's an incident on Olympus where, again, Zeus and Hera are having a massive row and it's upsetting all of the other gods. Zeus and Hera are having a massive row and it's upsetting all of the other gods and in the end he kind of settles it out by taking drinks around the assembled gods in the way that Zeus's cup bearer Ganymede would do it but Ganymede is a kind of super beautiful boy Hephaestus obviously is not and the fact that Hephaestus is kind of wheezing and limping makes all the other deities laugh at him. But in a sense, he has created that laughter for himself.

He knows what he's doing and he's using, almost like using people's prejudices against him, against them, in order to defuse a difficult situation. His mental wits are terrific, I think. His mental wits are extraordinary across a variety of different stories. But if we go back to, therefore, Aphrodite and Ares, Steve, how does Hephaestus get his own back on this? It's brilliant, actually. It's brilliant. Because, you know, he's obviously offered his forge making stuff and they're in bed together and having a nice time but what he's done is to rig up an

unbreakable net over the bed so that when they when they start to have a nice time together this net falls down on top of them and traps them and there is no way that they can get out and so he entirely gets his own back it It's a beautiful moment, it's told in Homer and when this happens, he calls all the other gods in to have a look and they all come to laugh and point and so on. The goddesses don't come, they are constrained by feminine modesty and they stay at home

but all the male gods come and they come and they have a good old laugh at the two of them together. And I think by this point it's therefore fair to say that Hephaestus and Aphrodite's relationship, there's no mending of fences after this. It's completely loveless, isn't it? It absolutely is. End of process. We kind of move on after that one. So if we keep on Hephaestus' romantic partners for a bit longer then, I mean, aside from Aphrodite,

does he have any other romances? Are there any more successful ones? Aphrodite does he have any other romances are there any more successful ones yes and no I suppose not really a romantic one but there's another story a key story in his mythology I think where he tries to rape Athena and again the story goes that he's kind of been rejected by Aphrodite and at this point and Athena goes she's a war goddess herself so she goes to him to get some weapons and in the course of this he tries to seduce her she's a virgin goddess she's having none of this he pushes his advances and he tries to violate her in the end and he eventually he does catch her and there's a there's struggle. And he ejaculates all over her. And she's disgusted by this.

And she wipes it off with a piece of wool and throws it on the ground. And the ground is Mother Earth. It's Gaia, who is as fertile as you can get. So it immediately gives birth to a son who is called Erichthonius, who is kind of, therefore, Hephaestus' son. So it's a very curious incident, but it's a really important one in the mythology of the city of Athens, really. It's, you know, it's a horrible story. And, you know, one of so many of these kind of ones associated with rape and assault that you seem to see again and again with so many of these deities, isn't it?

We'll go on to that Athens link in a second I think there are some cases where he does have romances with mortal women he does indeed yeah again it's interesting I think because in in Homer we don't have any mention of of offspring at all but in other authors there's loads of them there are both mortal and immortal relationships and offspring here. So, you know, in addition to Eric Thornius, he also has in some traditions a relationship with Aglaya, who is one of the three Graces. Again, it's interesting. He has beautiful wives. You know, he has Aphrodite, he has Aglaya, who's beautiful and splendid and what have you. And they have children as well.

They have what they call the younger graces. So they have Eucleia, who is good reputation, and Euphaneia, who is praise, and Euphemia, who is eloquence, and Philophrosinae, who's like welcome. So they have beautiful children in that respect as well so there's a whole catalogue of these children and relationships that come out of Hephaestus and his his romances I think which seem to be more consensual than the Athena thing. What did the Athenians if we go into the world of the living and let's say the Athenians in ancient history what did the Athenians think of Hephaestus, given that he, in the myths, he sexually assaults the patron deity of that city? Yeah, it's extraordinary. I mean, funnily enough, Athens

is one of the main places where he is worshipped with a degree of seriousness. I think what happens is that in the Bronze Age, it's defined by bronze and metalworking. So a god like Hephaestus is incredibly important. As time goes on, if you like, warrior culture almost takes over from creative culture in a sense. So in many cities, he doesn't have quite the impact perhaps that he once upon a time may have done. But in Athens, he is really important. He's important in their mythology, in the heart of all those tales.

Strangely, not only the potential rapist of their patron deity, but also the guy who is responsible for her birth when Zeus is self-pregnant with Athena, having swallowed the goddess Mertes to avoid giving birth to a son. He becomes pregnant with Athena and she gestates in his head and Hephaestus eventually performs an act of sort of axe-wielding midwifery and sort of smashes him over the head with an axe and Athena springs forth. So it's a very ambiguous kind of relationship I think and at

Athens he and Athena have temples and festivals in common and certainly there is an important, very important temple to Hephaestus in the centre of Athens that was built in the 5th century BC, the Hephaestion which is one of the main monuments to his worship and cult in Athens itself. Is that the one, Steve, still standing in the Agora today? It's quite well preserved. Yeah, incredibly well preserved. Well preserved, actually, because it was turned into a Christian church at quite an early stage. So it was used and maintained and looked after in a way that other pagan temples weren't necessarily. And if that's constructed, you know, you said 5th century, so golden age of Athens, Pericles and so on and so forth. So alongside Athena and the Parthenon

and so on and so forth, even at that time in Athens' history, it's golden age, Hephaestus' worship, the cult of him is still very strong alongside Athena. It is indeed, yes. He has strong worship there. And also, of course, strong worship on the island of Lemnos as well, you know, his mythical falling place, if you like. But not much else, you know, that there are various bits and pieces of shrines elsewhere, but nothing on the scale of many of the other Olympian deities. On the island of Lemnos, do you have archaeology surviving affirming this, or is it largely from the literature that we know that he's worshipped there? It's pretty much from the literature, but from what I remember, I think there is inscriptional material there as well

that helps to show us about, and certainly we have, if you like, the usual mythological sources, the likes of Apollodorus and Pausanias and writers of that ilk who are providing us information about different places and the cults and what have you that go on there. January on Gone Medieval is all about mysteries, the impossible riddles of medieval history that defy efforts to solve them.

How did the presence of a mysterious saviour from the east turn into devastation? There were also tidings that Prester John was on the march. What secrets does a book written in an unknown code hide? Linguists have worked on it. Code breakers, especially after World War II, were very interested in seeing if they could break the code. But so far, nobody has, as far as we know, even come close.

Did kings and princes really die when history has assumed they did? Our liege lord, Edward of Carnarvon, meaning Edward II, is alive and in good physical health and in a safe place. I'm Matt Lewis, and all through January, we'll see how close we can get to answering the unanswerable and ask how these mysteries might be solved in the future. Just before we go on to some of the tools, some of the things that he crafts alongside the throne you talked about earlier i'd like to focus in on his disability that he's depicted having

how do the ancient greeks whether the athenians or whoever how do they view hephaestus with this disability how do they view the disability itself i guess yeah so it's a really interesting one i i think it's the greeks have this way of conflating physical beauty or its opposite with moral beauty and its opposite so one would expect that they generally think that beautiful people are therefore morally good i wouldn't necessarily agree with that all the time, but it's a thing that they do feel. And conversely, that if you like physical disabilities, equal moral disabilities, in a sense, it doesn't seem to apply to Hephaestus. I mean, the gods are kind of a world of their own in essence. And certainly they, at different times in their history, the Greeks have a great deal of interest in,

if you like, let's call it physical difference, I think. And for one thing, in his worship, we're told that the Greeks sometimes placed very small, if you like, dwarf-like figures of Hephaestus near their hearths. You know, again, because the fire thing is so important. And these are very ancient and very highly respected things, I think. And I think on the one hand, he's a bit of an outsider amongst the Olympian deities.

He actually builds their palaces, but he spends so much time in his forge. He actually builds their palaces, but he spends so much time in his forge. And it's almost like that he has special powers and these are marked by a special sign. And that special sign is his lameness. Well, it's very interesting, therefore, to hear that, you know, as you say, he doesn't take away from his intellect. This is just who he is. And it's a key component of who he is and his wisdom. Yes, absolutely. The Athenians, the Greeks in general, have this idea that in many ways the gods are like us. They're not all powerful, they're not all good, you know, they're not always morally good. They behave like human beings do and we respond and interact with them like we

do with other human beings. They don't have this idea, I think, of an all-powerful, all-good, all-loving deity. These deities are very much like other human beings who are full of foibles and quirks and unpredictabilities and perhaps in that way easier for them to relate to. You did mention there fire, the importance of fire and its association with Hephaestus. So let's go back to a couple of other myths. Talk to me about the link with Hephaestus and the Prometheus myth. Yes, Prometheus is the acquirer of fire, if you like, is that Zeus does not want mankind to have fire.

And Prometheus is what they call a culture bringer. And he does want humanity to have fire and for that reason Prometheus steals fire from Zeus and as a result of that Zeus is going to punish humanity there has to be some if you like mythological counterweight to the benefit of fire which gives mankind technology cooked food these things that make us human beasts don't do blacksmith stuff beasts don't cook their food but now we can we're human is what makes us human with fire and also sacrifice in the end we're going to burn sacrifices to the gods but there must be a compensating evil for this in the Greek tradition. And in the Greek tradition, that evil is the first woman.

It's Pandora. And Zeus is going to give mankind woman, Pandora, in order to wreck their lives. And it's Hephaestus that's given the gig of creating Pandora so he he does so as you highlighted there Steve it's not just metal things that he makes although does he make the shackles for Prometheus as well when he's bound to that rock doesn't he he does he does yes and yes and they last for 30,000 years or something like that you know yeah they're good ones are there any other key tools from the various myths that i'm guessing that there are for feistus objects that he feistus forges that he crafts that you think deserve mention here i think so achilles's armor is one again it's this

wonderful things in in homer where Achilles needs some new armor and Hephaestus creates this most fabulous panoply of weaponry and breastplate and helmet and shield and so on for him. What else does he create? Eros's bow, moving statues, as I say, the palaces of the gods, anything that you can forge, create, the weapons of the gods. You know, he makes Zeus's thunderbolts. Nothing he can't do. Heracles's armour as well is something there. What else?

The chariots of the gods, cult statues, mortal kings' palaces. You know, you name it. You need something, a building that's the coolest thing ever. That's what you need. Go for Hephaestus. And you also hinted at this earlier, and it seemed really bizarre, but I want to go back to it now. You also create robots. Yes, absolutely. There's these automata moving statues and particularly these female servants that he have that have speech and intelligence as well. have that have you know have speech and intelligence as well it's so interesting steve with the story of hephaestus it seems that he you will hear about him in various mythological stories especially if it's one with war about how he makes someone's armor or an object that is given to someone else

has been crafted by hephaestus give it the tick that this is the best of the best but is that normally the role of hephaestus that we see apart from those one or two myths surrounding him entirely that he is a bit character in a different myth? That is often the case I think he's often seen as well if you like in that respect as kind of a almost like a Jungian archetype a lot of people like to read that sort of psychoanalytical stuff into mythology so he

becomes the archetype if you like the wounded creator or they call the crippled craftsman again i think i said before this amazing creativity but it's bound into his if you like his physical and perhaps his emotional wounds as well he been damaged, but he very often repairs the damage to other people, or he creates. So, you know, in his damaged state, he sometimes repairs damage, if you like, but creates new things that are valuable and creative and generally amazing, I think. They have an element of awe and wonder about them, I think, the things that he creates. I guess it's no surprise, therefore, that idea of creation and these incredible objects that he does make that his story is it wrong to say evolves forgive me if I'm completely wrong with this evolves with let's say by the time he

gets the Romans and you get the Roman equivalent god Vulcan yeah I think so I mean like we said there are always different versions of these myths and and they do, they evolve and they change over time. A myth has so many different variants that will depend on when it's told, who's telling it, why they're telling it, where they're telling it, when they're telling it. So these tales are in a constant state of evolution, I think. Myths are good to think with. I think that's a really good way of putting it.

You can do things with it. They're like, I have a huge interest in jazz music as a musician as well as an academic. You know, with a lot of jazz music, there are, if you like, templates for the things that you play, structures for the tunes, but you constantly improvise around those tunes to create new things. And I think the

Greek mythological tradition is a bit like that. You almost have these kind of underlying templates, but within those parameters, you can take things wherever you like. So Hephaestus is a continually evolving character here, according to time, place, motive of Teller.er so as you say he embeds himself in the roman tradition as vulcanus who is pretty much the same you know blacksmith god earth volcanoes that's where we get volcanoes from of course absolutely absolutely let's not go down the vesuvius route today though my friend i mean this has been great so far and i mean hefeister's i think it's fair to say very flawed character very good to highlight all of these parts of his mythology and how he is viewed by actual people in ancient history.

I mean, Steve, before we completely wrap up, if there was one thing to take away about Hephaestus, his role in the pantheon of Greek gods and goddesses, what do you think that should be? What should be his prime legacy? It's almost this sort of don't judge the book by the cover. Here is the person who seemingly, certainly on the physical level,

is not up to the same level of perfection as everybody else on Mount Olympus. I mean, he lives here as a disabled person in an environment of not only able-bodied people, but super-abled people. And despite the fact they're often disparaging to him, he is just as adept, just as good physically,

with his hands, with his brain, as anyone else. He is the God who should never be underestimated, I think. Well, Steve, that's a lovely way to wrap up this episode on Hephaestus today, where it just goes for me to say, my friend, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the podcast today. Absolute pleasure. It's been a joy. I've really enjoyed it. So thank you for inviting me. Well, there you go. There was the third episode of our special Greek gods and goddesses series with Dr. Steve Kershaw, all about Hephaestus, the god of fire, blacksmiths, this very cunning god of the ancient Greek pan pantheon i hope you enjoyed the episode thank you so much for listening now the episode it was produced and edited by our senior

producer elena guthrie the assistant producer was annie colo those two legends in the history hit office who form the core of the ancients team the The scriptwriter was Andrew Hulse and the actor was Nicola Woolley. If you enjoyed this episode, do let us know. You can message me on Twitter, on Instagram, or you can just leave us a lovely rating on Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts from. We love hearing the feedback. And of course, with this special set of episodes, it is nice to know if they are well-received to hear if they're popular. Make sure you keep following the ancients because we're going to be continuing this series. And next up, it's Aphrodite.

Aphrodite was the goddess of love and sex and passion. And specifically, she was considered often to be love itself, which I find an additional fascinating piece of her. That episode was great fun to record so I'll see you then.