The Ancients - Origins of Horse Riding

Episode Date: June 1, 2023

Human and Horse relationships have long be intertwined; from the ancient Eurasian plain, through to modern cowboys. But how did these huge, independent creatures become domesticated - and what was the original intention behind such an act? Originally tamed for their meat and milk, the domestication of horses - and the origins of horse riding, aren't two events that coincided. So when did the horse move from food to friend? And who's responsible for this change?In this episode Tristan welcomes Carolyn Willekes to the podcast, to talk about this remarkable evolutionary journey. Looking at what archaeological evidence can tell us, from horse teeth to buried skeletons, and the cultural influences that horses had across the ancient world - when did human's domesticate horses, and can they be considered man's best friend?If you'd like to learn even more, we have hundreds of history documentaries, ad free podcasts and audiobooks at History Hit - subscribe today! To download, go to Android or Apple store

Hi, I'm Tristan Hughes, and if you would like the Ancient ad-free, get early access and bonus episodes, sign up to History Hit. With a History Hit subscription, you can also watch hundreds of hours of original documentaries, including my recent documentary all about Petra and the Nabataeans, and enjoy a new release every week. Sign up now by visiting historyhit.com slash subscribe. It's the ancients on History Hit. I'm Tristan Hughes, your host, and in today's episode, where we're talking all about the origins of horse riding. We're focusing in on horses. When you think about it, the horse has been so closely connected to the story of modern humans, particularly over the last few thousand years, whether it's in regards to communication,

to travel, to warfare, to farming, and so on. So what do we know about when humans first not only domesticated horses, but then realised the potential of riding them too? Because horse domestication and horse riding were their two completely different things, as you're going to hear in today's episode. Now, to talk through the origins of horse riding, new scientific research alongside archaeological discoveries, well, I was delighted to interview Dr. Carolyn Willekes from Mount Royal University. Carolyn, she lives and breathes horses. She is the perfect interviewee for this topic. And as you're going to hear, with the origins of horse riding, it's still shrouded in quite a bit of mystery. But

there are some really interesting theories that have now been put forward, which Carolyn explains. We're going to be going to places such as the Great Steppe, modern countries such as Kazakhstan, but also southern Russia. We're going to be looking at ancient peoples such as the Botei culture and the Yamnaya. And then we're going to be examining the spread of horse riding, of horse domestication from this area of the world to other places, for instance, Mesopotamia. I really do hope you enjoy, and here's Carolyn. Carolyn, it is wonderful to have you on the podcast today. Well, thank you so much for having me, Tristan. I'm really excited to be here to talk about horses.

You're more than welcome, and you are dialing in from proper horse country, Alberta in Canada. And I know there's the famous saying that a dog is a man's best friend, a dog is a human's best friend. But I mean, when you think about it, horseback riding and domestication of horses, surely a horse is a close second. I mean, the two kind of go together. I think the ranchers out here, you know, all of my friends who have stables and acreages and things like that. I mean, you don't really have one without the other, right? You have your horse or your horses and you have your dog or your dogs, usually multiples. And the two, you work together with them, which is interesting because you have a prey animal and a predator and somehow you find this way to coexist, have them coexist with one another. So, I mean, I love my dog,

but I also deeply love my horse. So I don't know if I could pick which one was my best friend. I think they both are. And I guess when also you go back deep into history, as we are going today, thousands of years with the origins of horse riding and horseback riding. Across the world, horseback riding is today. You see it in warfare all the way down, arguably to the present day, and in social, in leisure, and so on and so forth, a really important development advancement in human history too. It is. I think because we live in such a mechanized world now where we have our cars and planes and trains and electric bicycles and motorcycles and things to get around, particularly in sort of the Western world, it's easy for us to overlook how fundamental the horse

became to human society, how they changed transportation, warfare, displays of social status, sports, ritual, art, cultural expression, acquisition of food for hunting and things like that. I mean, the horse was central to all of this. And until fairly recently, seeing horses in urban settings, whether you're talking about London or New York, was quite common. You'd encounter horses working in the streets. I mean, working horses and people who relied on them for their day-to-day living. And then that changed very dramatically. So we tend to be like, oh yeah, that's kind of a thing in the past. But horses, we say as a cliche, I think it was Winston Churchill

who said history is written on the back of a horse or mankind owes horses a lot of things. And maybe it wasn't Winston Churchill, but it's like one of those quotes that, right, human history really was written on the back of a horse. And it's true. We see horses all over the world now. The only place where you're not going to find horses living is Antarctica. And that's not for lack of trying. I'm pretty sure there was a polar expedition that tried to use horses to get to the South Pole. It didn't work though. But as we'll talk about, I mean, the domestication of the horse took place in a very specific region and wild horses sort of existed in a very specific region. And then with domestication, they just spread so rapidly across

the world and have come to be central to cultural identity and cultural practices in communities from South America to Siberia. Well, let's talk about wild horses, first of all, pre-domestication. So if we're going, maybe let's say to the Ice Age, I guess, to the Paleolithic period, because even before domestication, there were wild horses roaming all around, and early human groups, they had contact with wild horses, didn't they? They did, yes. From what we can tell, particularly from the visual record, horses seem to have been important to Paleolithic communities because they

represent them so frequently in their art. Especially if we look at southern France and the northern Iberian Peninsula, sites like Lascaux or Chauvet, with the spectacular cave paintings of animals, horses appear more frequently in these caves than any other species of animal. So it's always fun to try and figure out why they're putting these animals in these caves. We don't know why. I mean, there's no written record to say, yeah, I painted this mammoth for X, Y, or Z reason. So we have to try and sort of puzzle it out. But it's clear that these animals are important and that horses in particular are very significant to these communities because they are representing them so frequently, and with a

fair degree of realism. And if you just think of the effort and time and resources that it would take to make the paint, to go into these caves, to produce these images, some of which are very large, it's a reflection of these animals meaning something. What that something is, it's hard to say. I mean, there's possibly a ritual side of things. Certainly, there's a food side. We know that wild horses were hunted. That would have been the primary human interaction with them was horses as a source of meat, of food, and then obviously, the secondary resources that can come from the hides and the bone and sinew and the hair and stuff like that. So yes, paleolithic humans had a connection to horses, were interested in horses, depict them very vividly in their art, but they were also hunting them as a source of food,

which hunting wild horses on foot cannot have been a particularly easy task. No, and it's quite interesting though, isn't it? Because I think it's at Creswell Crags that you have perhaps the oldest coloured depiction from the UK, which is a coloured depiction of a horse with a mane. And it's really beautiful. And as you say, maybe there is that prestige element behind hunting a horse. As you say, it's not very easy to hunt a horse, especially in Paleolithic times and Ice Age times. So you mentioned that in the Ice Age, the horse is primarily associated as a prey animal with food. But do we have any idea when this attitude towards the horse, it starts to change? They start seeing the horse is primarily associated as a prey animal with food. But do we have any idea when this attitude towards the horse, it starts to change? They start seeing the horse as potentially

being something else? Quite late. If we think of what we like to call the agricultural revolution or the Neolithic revolution, because we love those revolution terms, that starts far earlier than the beginning of horse taming. So if we're looking at other major domesticates, like sheep and goats are probably being domesticated around the 11th millennium. So in the 10,000s BCE, cattle and pigs kind of in the 9th millennium BCE. I mean, dogs are very difficult to pin down. They're not being domesticated purely for food or anything that certainly predates it. But if we think of the domestication of food animals, of large herbivores that you were then taming and corralling and keeping to use for their milk, their fleece, their meat, things like that,

this is far earlier than horses. So which again is kind of hard to visualize because horses become so important. But horses were actually one of the last large or major domesticates to be tamed by humans. Only camels come after horses in terms of like the big mammals that become so important to human society. So we know that probably by the fourth millennium, so the 3000s BCE, humans in some parts of the world, certainly sort of in the northern Central Asian steppe, sort of what is now Kazakhstan, they seem to be making an effort to start taming horses. And so this isn't because all of a sudden they're like, oh, they're lovely, fluffy unicorns, and I want to pet them and feed them treats and brush their hair. This taming process is taking

place for the purposes of food acquisition, right? When humans first start thinking about taming and then domesticating horses, it is to make them easier to eat and to make it easier to access the resources, the food resources that they can provide. Because it's a lot easier to walk out of your yurt or your home and go to a corral and have horses contained there who are not afraid of humans, as opposed to trying to track them across the steppe and then corner them, catch them, corral them, something, trap them in the wild. So yes, this process begins, it seems, by the fourth millennium, and it's motivated by food. And you mentioned Kazakhstan, fourth millennium BC. So what's the culture that is living in that

area of the world that seems to be associated with this first domesticating of horses? I mean, first, I suppose to just situate a little bit to what it even looks like. I mean, horses are herd dwelling grazers that live in groups and herds. So they're a large-ish mammal, and they need a lot of food, right? Horses are designed to eat continually throughout the day. That's how their digestive system works. They also need a lot of water. So if you think of the topography of a place like the steppe, it's a lot of open grassland. So it's really quite ideal for large groups of horses to live there. Lots of space for them to move. It's pretty open so they can see predators coming for them and run away because that's what they're really good at. And so it's in this region that we

start to see this evidence for humans beginning to tame horses. So there's a site in northern Kazakhstan called Botai, the Botai culture. And until fairly recently, the kind of most secure evidence for what we would say horse domestication or horse tamingaming, is coming out of bowtie. And we thought, or archaeologists thought, scholars thought, that this is where our domestic horse came from, right? The species that we know as Equus cabalis, which is the domesticated horse, that it must have somehow traced its origins back to fourth millennium, northern Kazakhstan, the bowtie culture. This is where it happened. And there's a few things that show that humans are starting to exert control over horses here. You find, you know, at some of the sites in

bowtie, you find large numbers of horse skeletons, potential evidence for posts for corrals. You're finding lipids, horse milk, lipids, proteins, fats in ceramic vessels. I dare you to try and milk a wild horse. If you're milking horses, then they must be at least tamed, right? They're manageable, right? You can walk up to that mare and milk her. So we see this evidence suggesting that there is a process of taming happening in bow tie in the mid-fourth millennium. Do we have any idea how they would have gone about taming a wild horse? As you say, just trying to envisage trying to milk one of these wild horses, good luck to the person if you're going to try and survive that or not get a difficult injury from that. Do we have

any idea how that taming went about? Was it still shrouded in mystery? The technicalities of it, I suppose, are shrouded in mystery. I mean, how exactly did they do it? Were they all magical horse whispers? Probably not. But it's like the domestication of any species. It is a gradual process. It doesn't happen overnight. So whether they are acquiring young horses, so young foals, weanlings, who are not full size, not full strength, you can still sort of imprint humans upon them. And then you start to breed for specific qualities, right? You're breeding for that amenability, for that temperament where they don't have that innate fear of humans. And you sort of expose them to human contact on a regular basis. And it is something that happens very gradually over time. And then

as you have these horses that are potentially being bred in a confined domestic environment, the ones that tend to be quite wild or aggressive, well, maybe you don't want to really work with those ones. Maybe you use those ones for food. And others, female horses, if they're amenable to handling, those are the traits that you're probably going to want to pass on, right? And this is how it works with any species when you domesticate it. You're selecting, it's this whole idea of selective breeding, right? Whether you're doing it consciously or subconsciously, there are certain things that you want out of this animal. And so those are the traits you're going to try and build up and pass on from one generation to another. And any undesirable traits, so aggression

or certain physical ailments or things like that, that's not what you want to pass down in the line. So it's a gradual process of sort of figuring out what do we want, how do we produce animals that allow us to use them the way we want to, and then going from there. What's also really interesting about what you mentioned there, Carolyn, is that this domestication of the horse at that time, it's primarily for food. So the origins of horse riding and the origins of horse domestication are actually two very different things. This is something that's always really hard for horse people to really grapple with,

because we have this deep affection and bond with these animals. So sort of recognize that the human relationship with the horse, this interspecies one-on-one relationship, starts for the purpose of using them for food is a challenging thing to reconcile ourselves with, right? We want to imagine it as like, I don't know, some magical Disney-esque scene where human meets horse in the step and there is this, you know, moment between them and they're drawn towards each other and this great magical bond starts. But that's not how it would have worked. There's a reason why humans are putting in the effort and the resources to tame a large, dangerous animal.

And that reason is food. But then usefully, later on, we discover that there's other really cool things we can use horses for. But to begin with, it's food, meat, and then the dairy products. Horse milk. Horse milk is central to the diet of the nomads of the Eurasian steppe. I mean, it still is today because it has a very high quantity of vitamin C in it. So when you're a nomad and you are migrating with the seasons and you can't grow a lot of fruit and veg, how do you avoid scurvy? You drink horse milk and eat horse cheese. And they also ferment it into an alcohol. So horse milk is really central to their diet and their health.

Absolutely. And I love how that importance of the horse in a country like Kazakhstan has endured to this day and how the horse is such an important symbol of Kazakhstan and their identity. And going back to the bow tie culture in the fourth millennium BC, it's absolutely fascinating. But what I also remember you saying there, Carolyn, is that you almost said until recently, they thought that this was the origins of the modern horse and the bowtie culture in the 4th millennium BC. What is this until recently? That's intriguing. Dun, dun, dun, right? Archaeology, it's so exciting. So, I mean, domestication in the

horse is a tricky thing to pin down because there isn't like a dramatic morphological change that happens there. So their bodies, their skeletal systems, their muscular systems, cardiovascular systems, all that, it's not like, oh, this is what a wild horse's skeleton looks like. And this is what a domestic horse's skeleton looks like. They remain pretty consistent. So when you're looking at the archaeological, the physical remains, you can't be like, oh, yes, this is definitely a wild horse. And this is definitely a domestic horse. So this

is where things like the horse milk corrals. One of the other things that archaeologists look for is where on their teeth, they call bitware. So the bit is what you put in their mouth to control them. And they have a gap on their lower jaw that we call the bars. And that's where the bit sits, but the bit can rub against the teeth. So the argument is that if a horse is being ridden or driven regularly with something in its mouth, that's going to leave a permanent mark on its teeth. So that's something else that archaeologists have looked for, right? Are we seeing bit wear on these sort of premolars? And these are like the little clues like, yes, okay, these are probably not horses living in the wild. These are horses going through a taming process or a domestication process.

So there was all of this evidence that came out of bow tie. I'm like, cool, here it is. This is like secure evidence that horse domestication was occurring in this time period, in this region. All of our domestic horses must be descended from these original bowtie horses that were tamed and then going through this process. But then as archaeologists get access to more and more tech, and they can start doing things like gene sampling, which is way beyond what I am. This is science. I don't know. Biology and genes and gene sequencing and DNA samples. They realized that no, our domestic horse, Equus cabalis, is not a direct descendant

of the bowtie horses. The descendant of the bowtie horses is a species of horse we call the Chowalski horse, or the Taki, or the Mongolian or Asiatic wild horse. They're an endangered species. They are genetically different from our domestic horse. So what the research showed is that it seems like the bowtie culture began a process of taming or domestication. They had these horses as a food source, and then something happened and they stopped. And these horses reverted to being feral or wild. So for a long time, we've called the Chowalski horse the only true wild species of horse in the world, saying it's never been domesticated. But now we know that at some point way back in its history, it was domesticated and then reverted to being wild. So our horses,

the ones that we go and ride and jump and herd cattle with and cuddle and whatever, they aren't connected to bowtie. They actually come around in a second period of domestication. So set the scene for us. When are we talking with this second period of domestication. So set the scene for us. When are we talking with this second period of domestication and where in the world are we talking? So it's not too long after what we're seeing at Bowtie. So Bowtie, we're sort of looking at the mid fourth millennium. And then by the time we're getting into the late fourth millennium, so the late 3000s and then into early 2000s, we have a culture that emerges on the Pontic-Caspian steppe, so the Eurasian steppe. So kind of a bit away, sort of in the same general area as Kazakhstan, but leaning more towards sort of Ukraine, Russia, grasslands, that area,

called the Yamnaya culture. And they are another nomadic group. And so they would have kept large herds of livestock. And this is where we actually find the genetic evidence for what we call the Dom II horse. So sort of this second wave of domestication. And it's the horses that are being domesticated in the Yamnaya cultural context that are actually the ancestors to our domestic horse today. Right. And this is almost between the Don River and the Volga River, isn't it, if I remember correctly? Yeah. So again, still lovely, wide open grasslands, lots of water. Again, well-suited to a pastoralist nomadic lifestyle because you can migrate with

the seasons. There's pasture land for your animals. It's not just horses. I mean, they have sheep and goats and cattle and such as well. And there would have been wild horses in the area. And so then we see this second wave of domestication where they just kept going. And it's fitting almost that it seems to be with the Yamnaya culture, isn't it? Because this culture, they spread far and wide and really quickly too, don't they? They do, yes. And they sort of start in this particular region and really within the span of a few generations, they migrate south, they migrate west into Europe, and they're moving at a quite, for the time, rapid rate of

speed. And so of course, it's tempting to be like, well, why are they able to move this quickly? Because of horses, and not just horses as a food animal. But you know, we really want to be like, are they riding these horses? Because that would allow them to be able to move quickly over varying terrain and move their livestock with them, right? It's a lot easier to herd animals when you're sitting on a horse as opposed to on foot, right? One person on a horse can control a far larger herd of animals than four or five people on foot. And is that once again something to remember? Because if you mentioned that area of the world, I would automatically think something like Scythians later, or people who are renowned for riding on horseback, but also with weapons, with bows and arrows, with sagarous axes and so

on and so forth. But taking a step back, if it is with the Yamnaya, do we think if this is the time when you have the origins of horseback riding, of horse riding, that the primary purpose of it is probably to do with their pastoral system, with being able to keep their herds, being able to manage their herds from horseback? I would say yes. I don't know, I may get some angry messages from colleagues after this, but it just makes sense. Again, why would they have domesticated this animal, starting as a food source? Same thing, we're finding the lipids, we're finding the evidence for milking horses, we're finding evidence in the skeletons of the Amnaya people for the consumption of horse dairy products. So again, starting, well, why are we doing this? Well, there's this pragmatic reason of they're a good food source, both for meat and for dairy products. Cool. But

then there's this moment that's, I mean, I think impossible to pin down the exact time it happens or where it happens or why it happens where humans realize that they can use horses for more than just food right i mean they have we have plenty of food sources we have cattle we have goats we have sheep we can use them for their meat we can use them for their dairy products you know in the case of sheep we can then use them for their wool and cattle for their their horns and and all of that but well we could use cattle for traction and you can ride a cow i mean people do ride cows. The horse is like, I always say that the horse was like the all-terrain sports car.

You know, when humans realize that they could use this animal for transportation, it really did open the world up. We're spoiled. I can get in my car and drive from Calgary to Edmonton, which is a distance of over 300 kilometers and be there in less than three hours, unless the weather is terrible, there's an accident on the highway, to walk that or to drive that in an ox cart would take forever. But the horse, again, gives you that speed and that mobility. It really did open up the world. And then as a herder, it made your job easier, because now you can use these animals to have larger herds of animals, which provides you with more resources, you with more stability and security. It gives you a broader range of territory to migrate through between the seasons. And it gives you the opportunity to move into new

territories in a way that you probably didn't have prior to horse riding. Did you know that the earliest condoms were made of animal guts and they were designed to be reused? Or that beans were once considered to be an aphrodisiac? Join me, Betwixt the Sheets, the history of sex, scandal and society, a new podcast from History Hit, where I, Kate Lister, ask the questions about the stuff we didn't learn in history lessons or sex ed. We'll be bed hopping around different time periods, from ancient civilizations to the Middle Ages to Renaissance and early modern, right up to now. Listen and subscribe to Betwixt the Sheet now, wherever you get your podcasts. I know it's all theory, but as you say, it does seem to make a lot of sense.

But I appreciate that there is probably a lot of sense to all of these theories. Hence, that's the whole excitement of prehistory and archaeology and all of that. Do we have any evidence that might possibly suggest, that might infer that these Yamnaya people, that they were riding on horseback? There are a few things we can look at. One thing, going back to the genetic science stuff, there are actually genes that are appearing in the skeletons of these Dom 2 horses, two important ones. One that suggests that they are selecting horses to breed that have a lower rate of aggression and fear. So again, that selective breeding where you're taking a very, very flighty prey animal, be like,

we are going to breed for the traits that remove some of that fear of humans. Horses always remain flighty. They're still very flighty, but things that make them easier to manage. And another gene that makes their back stronger. So it makes them less susceptible to back injuries, back weakness, which again, if you're going to ride a horse, having a strong back is kind of fundamental to that. Some of the Yamnaya horses had show the bit wear on their teeth, but also we can look at the human remains. And so there was a recent study that came out, sort of a preliminary study, and it does raise some interesting points looking at human skeletal remains from the Yamnaya, what we basically call rider's syndrome. So when you

ride a horse like sort of every day of your life or fairly consistently throughout your life, it does leave markers on your body. It's a physically demanding thing to do. It's a fairly dangerous thing to do, which we don't like to think about. And so there are osteopathologies, so bone changes that archaeologists can look for in skeletons that could hint at, this is a person who maybe rode horses. So things that happen sort of in the pelvis, if you think of bow-leggedness, where you have like the old cowboy who has like the U-shaped femurs, that's because of the strain that's being sort of put on that part of his body and the way the muscles and ligaments and tendons are working. This is where you can tell that I'm not a bio-arc person, strain on the lower spine, but also catastrophic injury from being thrown off a horse, kicked by a horse, stepped on by horses. Most riders have plenty of war stories to tell about the ways in which their bodies have been damaged by horses, and the fact that we then get back on them and keep going. We're not really good at letting our bodies heal. So there is potentially

evidence that shows that some of the Yamnaya people were riding horses. There are other things that could cause these injuries, but when you kind of see them in concert with one another, it is sometimes argued that this is evidence for a person who rides consistently throughout their life. It's one of those things that said the evidence is not 100% there yet, is it? But it's still a really interesting theory and especially something we want to mention in our topic today. I guess I might go on a quick tangent, but I'd also like to ask actually about the cult of horses, this deep into prehistory and before then,

because it seems, as I said, you get a really prominence of horses in art going all the way back to the Ice Age. Around the time of the Yamnaya, around the time of this 4th millennium BC, 3rd millennium BC, do we see potentially also an increase in the amount of objects depicted, carved in the shape of a horse too, which might once again show a further interest in these

animals, maybe hinting at domestication, or do we not have that information available? That's a good question. I mean, we're certainly still seeing them in rock art. So whether cave paintings or carvings, we do see what are sometimes called ritualistic deposits, again, particularly coming from the sort of Caspian Pontic steppe area, where you get burials of horse skull, and I think a leg. So again, they're not burying the entire skeleton, and they've deliberately selected these pieces, and they're sort of burying them in ritual pits or ritualistic settings. In terms of things like little figurines, I don't think we're finding a lot of those. So you're not getting like, if you think of later periods in the Greek world,

the Roman world, or the Near East, little bronze figurines or little terracotta figurines of horses. But again, if they're things that are being made out of wood or something like that, they wouldn't have survived anyways, because they're an organic material and they would break down. So we're not seeing like large scale sculpture of horses or dedications to horses. And this isn't really my area of specialty. So I will sort of caveat with that. But we are seeing sort of what we would call sort of ritualistic associations with horses and the way in which horse skeletons are used in these different means for something. I think sometimes they're buried with dogs as well. Like you'll get the sort of skull and leg burial. And then

they're, I think, buried with parts of dogs too. I swear I read about that somewhere at some point in my graduate career. So again, seeing that mix between the two animals, between horses and dogs. Well, we might go on to horse burrows a bit later if we get to the Saka Pada. I'm not quite sure, but let's go back to the Dom II horse. And we mentioned that key area between the Don and the Vulgar and the Yamnaya culture. But the big question there for Carolyn, how quickly does the modern domestic horse, how quickly does it spread across the Eurasian steppe and then further afield from there? Fairly quickly. And I will say, actually, just coming back to the ritual thing,

you did mention the Saka. We do start seeing horses included in burials, so in funerary contexts, kind of by the mid to late third millennium as well. So again, kind of following up on this domestication process, we are seeing in different burials, seeing horses and sometimes, you know, not, we're not talking hundreds of horses, but more than one horse being included in sort of funerary offerings or burials for obviously important humans. So again, that connection is there. But in terms of how quickly they spread. So if we're looking at with the Yamnaya,

we have what seems to be the domestication of the Domtu horse happening late third, early second millennium BC. By the time we kind of get into the late third millennium, so again, within the span of a few hundred years, which in ancient times is fairly quick, we get the Shintasta culture, which again is coming from the Southern Urals. They have chariots, they have chariots in their burials, they have horses in their burials. So the way in which the horse incorporates itself into culture, the domestic horse seems to happen very quickly. And then so it spreads kind of across the steppe, it moves west into Europe. By the time we're getting into the late third, early second millennium, we're moving down into the Near East. And from there, by the second millennium, they're in Egypt, they're in the

Greek peninsula. Of course, they're moving east as well. So they move fairly quickly. And part of that is just the nature of the animal, right? They allow you to move quickly. And so you bring your horses with you. And do we think therefore by that time, that's because I know there's still a bit of debate around whether the Yamnaya, they do ride the horses. But do we think by that time, when we get to the second millennium BC, that it's quite certain that people are riding horses, especially when you see the modern horse get into places like Egypt?

So one of the arguments is kind of what came first. Did they drive them first or did they ride them first? Ah, yes. The horse before the cart or the cart before the castle for the horse i mean yes when we look at the like shintasta culture we are seeing chariots we're seeing wheeled vehicles with horses so obviously they're driving them and again this is something that's difficult to pin down but i think anyone who's worked with horses and who has driven horses and ridden horses would probably argue just in terms of even the equipment you need, riding a horse seems more intuitive to start with than driving a horse.

And the problem with driving horses, if we're thinking of how relatively quickly the domestic horse seems to be spreading across Eurasia and then eventually down into North Africa, the problem with wheeled vehicles is they can't go everywhere, right? They're sort of limited in terms of the terrain that is ideal for them. You kind of need flat, open, dry terrain. So trying to get these things over mountains, across boggy terrain, across rocky, uneven terrain would probably be a massive headache, whereas you could just ride your horse. So in terms of movement, especially if we think of the horse really being used initially to improve how nomads can move their herds, you're going to do that by sitting on them. And then afterwards, you begin to build the technology for driving,

because we were using other animals for traction, right? We're using cattle for traction. We're using donkeys for traction. So as you start to move into those areas where these technologies exist, it then makes sense to be like, in the Near East, they had this thing called a kunga, which was a cross between a donkey and an onager, which is a type of wild ass. And again, they're the first war animals, and they're using them to pull war carts and stuff like that. So it's like, okay, well, this tech is here. So how do we adapt it to the horse? And it's not really an easy thing to do because of the way horses are built. The way you would use a collar on, say, a donkey or an ox is not going to work

on a horse. So they have to adapt it to suit them. And they're not really suited. The technology we have in the ancient world isn't suited to pulling really heavy loads for horses, which is why we don't see horses as sort of primary agricultural animals until we get into the Middle Ages. Because again, it's the development of the equipment. And so as the horse reaches Mesopotamia and places like that, and it's not nomadic cultures anymore, you've got the first cities, I guess you've also got the emergence of the first, well, in quotation marks, empires, but big kingdoms. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era,

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they're, I mean, they're using them for their day-to-day life. They're using them to get around. They're probably using them to hunt, probably using them for some form of defense or combat. I mean, again, there's no evidence to say when this happens in the steppe region. But yeah, this is an environment that's ideal for having large herds of horses, moving them, idyllic, I guess, for large scale horse husbandry. When those horses come really over the mountains into the Near East, into Mesopotamia, they're coming into a very different environment. I mean, yes, you still have grasslands in Mesopotamia. You still have fertile regions in Mesopotamia, but it's much more urbanized. It's hotter, it's drier. So the horse then, it's managed in different ways, right? You

don't just have these vast grasslands to let them roam on, you need to start to contain them. Donkeys were already a sort of fundamental part of society in Mesopotamia. And this is always really fun to talk about. Because when we look at later literature, and later art, donkeys are sort of subservient, they are the servants, they're the blue collar workers, and you read Aesop's fables and things like that. And they're horrific towards the donkeys, whereas the horse is the high status animal. But we know prior to the arrival of the domestic horse in places like the Near East and North Africa, that the donkey was a very high status animal, that they're buried with royals. They're buried with aristocrats. They're pulling the wagons, the chariots of the wealthy. They're

kind of responsible for the opening up of trade routes. And then we have these kunga, these onager donkey hybrids that you see on things like the standard of Ur, right? That's what you see is when we think those are kungas that are really the first war animals, right? That are being used to pull these wagons into battle. So when horses first arrive, there's almost like this suspicion around them. They're called the ass from the mountains, right? Because they are kind of donkey-like. I mean, they're both equids. They come from the same family tree. And I think it's from the kingdom of Mari, which I think is in Syria. We have a letter from the king writing to his advisors, basically saying, would it be disgraceful for me to be seen in a chariot pulled by a horse instead of a donkey or a conga? Which to us is like, what? Because horses are like the

status animal. But they have to be sort of woven into the fabric of society. And they are. So then we start seeing manuals, the Kikuli text coming from the Hittite kingdom about sort of how to train your chariot horses, how to prep them for warfare, because they do then become an animal for hunting and for war. And when we see them on the battlefield, it is originally pulling chariots, not being ridden into battle. And again, that's sort of in the second millennium BC. So when do we start seeing the first real depictions of horseback riding surviving in art? So they're coming from Mesopotamia. We see them on things like seal stones, stuff like that.

And they're kind of the late 2000s, early 1000s, some of the early images of individuals on equid back. Again, it's like, are they on a donkey? Are they on a horse? Sometimes the animal's controlled by a nose ring, like you would expect to see on a bullock with the rope going back. They sit in what we call the chair seat or the donkey seat. So they sit a bit further back. Again, they're probably learning this from having ridden donkeys and things like that. So we do start to see riding kind of in, yeah, the sort of late 2000s into early 1000s. But, you know, there aren't defining features where it's like, oh yes, but this is a warrior riding this horse to war or a messenger carrying news from one place to another. But we are starting to see here are humans very clearly on horseback and figuring out how to ride horses. Are there any key cultural differences that you find really

fascinating when looking at this spread of the domesticated horse? Let's say in places like Mesopotamia or Egypt or that one, you can see those real key differences in how the domestic horse is treated and I guess how riding comes about. Are there any some really striking cultural differences? I think the main cultural difference has to come down to cost. The horse, regardless of whether you're living on the steppe or you're living in Mesopotamia or you're living in modern day Calgary, are not an inexpensive animal to keep, right? Again, in the grand scheme of equids that we have used in our lives, they are probably the most expensive and most fragile, right? Donkeys and then mules, which are crossed between horses and donkeys, far more resilient, far sturdier, a bit more adaptable to sort of the pragmatic things

that humans need to do to survive. And I mean, I love horses, but really, they can be quite fragile. They have delicate digestive systems. They can get injured quite easily, but they also are very athletic and powerful and strong and offer all sorts of advantages. What's always really interesting to me is how horses are kept and maintained in urban environments versus a place like the steppe. They're important and valued and respected in both environments. But we have from, again, the ancient Near East, we have what you might call early breeding records, stud books, not where they're creating breeds, but they're recording. We're sending these mares here, these stallions here, we're crossing these horses. From later on, we have the Persepolis fortification tablets from the Achaemenid Empire. And it's for the messenger horses, kind of the original pony express and what

they're giving these horses. And again, there's different categories, their status of horses, and the really elite ones that are going to run the long distances. I mean, they're getting things like beer and wine that they're being fed. And so we see this very clear hierarchy about horses in urban sort of sedentary environments, whereas sort of on the step, it's more, again, they have a hierarchy. There are some horses that they castrate, some horses that they eat, some horses that they use for war, for sport or for hunting, but it's a much more, I think, symbiotic relationship that they have because they're living with these animals in a very different way, a way that we can't really emulate in an urban environment. And I guess it's also interesting, therefore, when you compare it,

let's say, with the Celtic cultures further west or let's say, you know, even on the island of Britain as well, the chariots, you see those amazing depictions of horses, don't you? And I know there's debate over their age and stuff like that, but it's fascinating then once again, you get that whole spread of the horse. And as you've highlighted there, how depending on people react to the introduction of the horse, of the domesticated horse, of the modern horse, and in regards to riding, how that experience, it is so different compared to whether you're in an urban environment in the Near East, you're in the Celtic environment of Western Europe, you're in the steppe, or even if you're further east too. That must be fascinating as well to have a look at.

I just find it mind boggling and it's such a rewarding, makes it such a rewarding topic to study. Because even though, yes, I am a classicist and I do a lot of stuff on horses in the classical world, it's this really fascinating animal because as we said back at the beginning, it's prior to its domestication, it's really living in just a few parts of the Eurasian world. And then with domestication, it's really living in just a few parts of the Eurasian world. And then with domestication, it starts to spread so rapidly. And then through things like conquest, trade, colonization, often through very violent means, horses are brought to these other regions.

And this is something that continues down into the modern period, you know, into like the 19th and 20th century. And you would expect this, you know, this is this animal, it's a symbol of domination and conquest and violence. But the cultures that the horse is then brought to go, yeah, but that's cool. I mean, not that the conquest is cool, but this animal is cool. It's useful. How do we incorporate it into our own societies? And so you see horses woven into the cultural practices and beliefs and traditions and sports and pastimes, again, from the South Pacific up into South America, up into the global North, you find horses woven into society everywhere, even in really urban environments, places like Compton in LA, where you get the Compton Cowboys, right?

This rich African-American cowboy tradition that's still existing in densely populated urban areas where you don't expect to find them. But there's something about this animal that's just evocative, that just draws people in. And even when they have no previous cultural experience with the animal, they're like, how? How can we incorporate this into who we are, into our identity? Carolyn, why is it of all ancient cultures that today we picture those that lived on the steppes, whether it's the Scythians or the Saka or the Xiongnu or the Huns or any of those peoples, why is it that we associate those groups as being, maybe this is too much of a generalization, but as being the best horse riders in the ancient world?

Because they still are in the modern world. No, I think in part, I mean, if we're going to say this from sort of like a serious scholarship point of view, I mean, this is where we're presumably getting domestication with the Dom II horses and early riding and then the spread of these technologies, because it's a region that's so well suited to it. I think that we have a tendency to look at the steppe and be like, oh, well, their relationship with the horse is less socially stratified. I think that's going a bit too far. There are still people who probably wouldn't have ridden horses. We know that both genders, or it was sort of like a gender neutral thing that males, females were riding horses and riding them well. And they just become so central to the livelihoods

and the success of those communities. And of course, as horse archers, they're pretty badass. And horse archery is tricky. I have done it, especially when you're doing it without a saddle and stirrups. Like you need to be a pretty good rider to get a little bear back on your horse and fire your bow backwards in a Parthian shot.

And because they have such large numbers of horses. But I mean, bringing it into more of a modern context, horses are still very important in that part of the world. And I've been privileged enough to spend time living with nomads in places like Mongolia and Kyrgyzstan. And they're amazing riders. They may not have the, I don't know what we call the style that you would find in like an Olympic show jumper.

But I mean, they can ride anything. And they can ride, their horses are tough as nails. They can ride those horses over mountains, across the steppe, 70, 80 kilometers in a day without even thinking about it. Like it's something they're literally doing before they can walk. And so I think it's because the horse is so embedded

in the fabric of their economy, the landscape, but also their lives that they are incredible riders. Well, there you go from origins to present day. Carolyn, that seems like a great place to end our chat. And it just goes to me to say, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the podcast today thank you for having me it was a lot of fun to think about early horses again well there you go there was dr carolyn willekes explaining all about the origins of horse riding. I hope you enjoyed the episode today as we kick off June 2023. Now last things for me, you know what I'm going to say, but if you are enjoying the

ancients at the moment and you want to help us out, well you know what you can do. You can leave us a lovely rating on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts from. It greatly helps us as we continue our everlasting mission to share these incredible stories from our distant past with you and with as many people as possible. To give fantastic experts such as Carolyn the spotlight that they deserve, a place where they can really share their research with as wide an audience as possible and also not be afraid to go into the really cool nitty gritty details too. But that's enough from me and I will see you in the next episode.

We'll see you next time. Thank you.