The Ancients - The Gladiatrix

Episode Date: August 3, 2021

Mention the word gladiator and you would be forgiven for instantly thinking of the 2000 namesake epic movie. Of spectators watching on as men battled each other with a variety of weapons, sometimes to the death, for the entertainment of the crowd. But did women also fight as gladiators? Was the gladiatrix a thing? The references are rare and vague and much debate still surrounds this topic. To talk through the literary and archaeological evidence that survives, Tristan chatted to Alisa Vanlint at the Chalke Valley History Festival. A member of Legio II Augusta, Alisa is an actor and gladiatorial combat specialist.

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they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not, just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. It's the Ancients on History Hit. I'm Tristan Hughes, your host. And in today's podcast, I was fortunate to get on the show recently when at the Chalk Valley History Festival, a few members of the Roman reenactments group Legio II Augusta. In this episode, I chat to Alyssa Van Lint, all about female gladiators. What do we know and what is still very much open to debate. Alyssa is a legendary figure.

She's taken part in many Roman reenactments. She's helped organise gladiatorial combats in the 21st century with her fellow members in Legio II Augusta, as you're about to hear. It was a joy to chat to her at the Chalk Valley History Festival. And without further ado, here's Alyssa. Festival. And without further ado, here's Alyssa. Alyssa, thank you so much for taking the time to join me on the podcast today. You are welcome. Now, we are here at the Chalk Valley History Festival. We had your colleague David on yesterday to talk about Roman weaponry, legionary weaponry, but female gladiators. This is an incredible topic because

I don't know about you, but I initially think of Russell Crowe, gladiator 2000, you know, going into the arena, fighting against all these other gladiator types. But we have references in our sources that do seem to say that women did fight as gladiators during the Roman period? We certainly do. They're very vague. There's very few of them. There is one reference from Nero's reign of possibly women fighting. We don't have an exact date to that. The only vague date we can go on is the writer Juvenal, who basically wrote a poem about a female who was training we reckon this was probably the late first early second century a.d and yes that's probably the only reference we actually have of females fighting apart from obviously the stone relief that's in the british museum

we'll get to that stone relief very shortly but does this really seem to emphasize then that if i was going to ask you about the rise of the female gladiator when do we think we start seeing them in roman arenas then we can't really put in any exact date we can't really answer that with much certainty because we've only got these isolated references to them exactly we only know they became popular because obviously the fact that they were disbanded in 200 but I imagine they would have grown in popularity from them on from starting off obviously as a comedy act at the games so women would start fighting dwarfs and children unfortunately the Romans are quite cruel and they believe people with disabilities were fun so there to be taking the mickey out of so women again were

a kind of mickey thing it was like let's have joke, let's have a woman fight someone who's very small, chase them around the arena, give them wooden swords, let's have a laugh. So, yeah, that was the first sort of reference of a woman fighting. And then I imagine it grew from there. It then became, oh, let's have women fighting, let's get something a little bit different, make it a bit more entertaining, a bit more exciting. The crowd will love it. We can offer them something new and something different.

And talk to me about this relief, this archaeological evidence that we've got in the British Museum. It's a very small stone relief, a bit disappointing when I imagine it to be huge. It's from Helikinesis, which is modern day Turkey. It depicts two females fighting. They were freed due to the signs that were above them, so we knew they were slaves. The armour and the weapons are quite clear, but there's a bit of damage,

so we can't actually see the face of one and we can't see what they wore on their chests. They're fighting on what we call a pons, which is a raised platform, which was very unusual for any other gladiator other than a retiaris and a secata to fight on. And we believe that it could possibly, either side of them, have been their helmets they took off,

because there's two little look-like helmets each side of them, or it could be an audience watching them. Nobody knows. There's a debate, and it still goes on today, as to what this was and why they were fighting on a raised platform. Maybe to show off the fact they were women and it made them more visible for the rest of the audience. We don't really know. Well, using this evidence, let's focus on the weapons first of all.

You've got a couple of weapons with us today alongside a wooden sword, which you mentioned earlier. But Alyssa, before we go on to the armour, let's talk about these arms. What weapons do we think female gladiators could have or would have used? Well, we believe from the relief they fought with the gladius, which the name gladiator comes from the Roman short stabbing sword. The gladius they would use was very short. The legionaries one was a lot longer.

It was shortened, we think, to make the fights more entertaining. And we see on the relief the swords the ladies are holding do appear to be quite short. They would carry the very short or small shield it was square bit like the legionary shield so it was curved but a lot lot smaller and they would wear armor similar to the men so they would wear a greave on their leg which was a piece of metal on your leg on padding on their arm they would have a manikur which was basically made of either leather or material and on their arm they would have a manika, which was basically made of either leather or material, and on their chest they would wear a chest plate and on their head a helmet. And before we go on to this chest plate and the helmet in particular,

I'd like to focus on this short sword very much first of all, because it's shorter than a normal legionary gladius. Does it really seem, because you've recreated some of these gladiatorial combats, you've used these weapons, does it really feel that this primarily was used as a thrusting weapon it could have been again it's the old debatable long time ago little evidence the legionary sword was designed to stab and it was sharpened at the point and possibly the edges we believe the gladiator's sword was definitely sharpened point and edges because you could use it for stabbing and slashing you would use it for slashing if maybe they had lost

their shield and you were trying to do a slash to disable them because you didn't want to kill your opponent it was not done so you try to slash them to disable them again you maybe use it to stab for your shield like a legionary would we don't know we can only go by what we portray and what we try and portray to the audience but obviously we're not trying to kill each other so there's that area of maybe it would have been different if we were really trying to kill each other but it makes it fast it speeds the fight up having a small weapon which again more entertaining more exciting well health and safety wise it's very good to hear that you guys are not trying to kill each other into it definitely not we do actually like each

other well let's let's get let's move on then to uh you have got this breastplate thing that we've got here talk me through what is this describe it to our audience today okay the breastplate obviously everyone thinks of medieval breastplates have a huge piece of metal that covered the whole chest the gladiators or the provocators breastplate so they were the only gladiator who Obviously, everyone thinks of medieval breastplates as a huge piece of metal that covered the whole chest. The gladiators or the provocators' breastplates, they were the only gladiator who wore this type of breastplate for the period that we depict. It's very small. It's literally a little square,

or it's sort of shaped to go under your neck, so you've got a slight dip at the front, and it would literally just cover the front of your chest, attached to some leather. They were generally quite ornate, so they might have designs on them and we think they were made of metal backed on to leather to make it more comfortable to wear some of them say have fish scales on some have medusa's head on one actually has medusa's head on it so yeah they were actually a bit of bling really a kind of bit of maybe polished it up and up. Sun shines on it. Oh, blind, can't see. Who knows?

Just a theory. And what about the helmet? The helmets, obviously, they varied from gladiator to gladiator. The provocator, which, again, we think the woman fought as, we're not sure, but we think, was quite different. It was very smooth. It didn't have the big fancy crests and plumes on it. They all had different types of helmet, but the women we think wore the provocator's helmet. So how was the provocator's

helmet designed? It was a bit like just a bowl on your head, really, and it was totally closed in at the front. So one, you couldn't see, two, to protect your face and to make it more exciting. The eye holes would be quite small compared to the other ones with a grill over the top to protect your eyes from the stab of a sword and yes it was very smooth like the soldier's helmet was very open with large neck guards and brow bands but the provocator's helmet was quite smooth a very small neck guard and very very contained so almost restrictive around you, so it restricted your breathing as well.

So quite not a nice helmet to wear, really. Absolutely not, absolutely not. Let's then go back to that monumental, well, not monumental at all, it's quite a small relief, isn't it, in the British Museum, but really important piece of archaeological evidence nonetheless. Talk to me about the names that we have surviving on this piece of archaeological evidence, because these names are pretty extraordinary in their own right. That's correct. Achillea and Amazonia, they're kind of theatrical

names because they like to have a bit of theatre, it adds a bit of excitement, it makes them feminine, so they give them feminine names which are like famous feminine characters, like the Amazons. So hence the name Achillea Amazonia gives it a little bit of ring, nice pairing of names together. I mean, absolutely. And that Amazonia name,

let's focus on that a bit more. And you mentioned how the myth of the Amazons is still really popular among the Romans. And you mentioned how we think women were fought in this one class, which you've highlighted just now, but this link to the Amazons, they could possibly have also fought in a ranged gladiatorial class. Yeah, I mean, we think maybe they fought as Sagittarii, so they fought with bows and arrows, because again, the myth of the Amazons with the bow and arrow, they only had one breast, because obviously it got in the way of the bow so they could draw the bow back so

yeah that might have then added to the fact that maybe they thought topless at the end of the day to one show their femininity and to associate them with the amazons hence the bare-breasted we don't know it's all theory all theory i think that's one of the most exciting things and enjoyable things about ancient history in my opinion now. Now, let's then focus on, we'll go back to female gladiators in a bit, but let's just focus on in quickly on a few gladiatorial types, because talk me through the most popular types of gladiator, Alyssa. Well, when people think of gladiators, like when they think of soldiers, they always think of shiny armour. Gladiators, it's the retiarius, the netmanman because this person fought with a net and a trident

they were very unique and very unusual not the most popular type by other gladiators but with the romans actually believe it not they thought they were amazing and to the modern day public it's the one they associate most with gladiators they wore on their shoulder a gallerus which was a piece of metal shaped over to the shoulder that protruded above the head to protect the head. And they wore on their arm just some padding. And they also carried a little dagger. And that's all they had. And who were they normally paired up against? The most common was the secateur. The secateur would have been very different in their armour. To make it exciting exciting the Retiaris was fast, little armour

the Secatur was slow but with lots of armour so they would have a large shield or scutum which was roughly the size of a soldier's they would have a helmet similar to the Provocators which was very smooth with tiny, tiny little eye holes we think this was so, one, to restrict their vision make it more exciting two, to stop the net catching on their helmet. They would have a greave on their leg and they

would have a manica on their arm, so they had the metal on their leg and the padding on their arm and basically they would be very stationary and you'd have the retiaris running around, which was the favourite combination of the Romans. It was a bit of fun, a bit of excitement. Excitement indeed, it always seems to go back to excitement and entertainment for the Romans. It was a bit of fun, a bit of excitement. Excitement indeed. It always seems to go back to excitement and entertainment for the Romans. Whether it's the shorter shield, the shorter sword, the more covering of the face with the helmet, wasn't it? It was all, we have to imagine we've got all the crowds over here today. You've had crowds watching you doing these re-enactments of these gladiatorial combats. Is this what we need to always remember, that it was always initially, primarily in the Roman world for the entertainment of the people watching the spectacle?

That's correct. Yeah. Basically, we've got television, we've got phones, we've got computer games. That was the Romans equivalent at the end of the day. The chariot racing and the gladiator shows were the main forms of entertainment and it was all about entertaining the public as much as you could to win the favor of the public and to win the votes and hence you know popularity was the big thing in the roman period so the more people you could produce the better the fight the more exciting the more unusual yeah you get the tick in the box you get the voters you get the golden you know the big yay get the voters, you get the golden, you know, the big yay, you've won. If only the Romans knew democracy that way.

Exactly. And of course the beast hunts too, they were of course in the other part, which was really interesting. Now, also, I've got a couple of names I'd like to highlight of some other gladiator classes that I'd like you to talk about. I know you like this one in particular, Alyssa. The Hoplamakos. Yes. What is the hoplamakos? The hoplamakos is an unusual one because they don't fight with a sword.

They fought with a spear, which is one of my favourite weapons because it's a fast weapon, you can get a good distance, and it's an exciting weapon to fight with. They fought also with a very small shield. The shield was unusual in the fact it was almost like a walk so you think of a modern day walk imagine fighting with a walk and a stick basically, they would be

heavily armoured because the smaller the shield the more armour you have on hence to make the games more exciting because you last longer, so they would wear on both legs greaves and they would then just have on their right arm the manikur and and they would then just have on their right arm the manika and yeah they would have basically been um a quite a fast agile gladiator really because the spear you have to use

in that manner it's something you have to really be quite physical with so What caused the anarchy? How did medieval migrants shape the language I'm speaking right now? Who won the Hundred Years' War? Could England's lost patron saint be buried under a tennis court in Suffolk? How did England's last medieval king end up under a car park? And were the Dark Ages really all that dark? I'm Dr Kat Jarman. And I'm Matt Lewis. On Gone Medieval, we'll uncover the most exciting and unexpected stories about the Middle Ages, hearing from the best and brightest minds. We will disentangle fact from fiction, bring you the latest discoveries

and reveal how the so-called Dark Ages laid the foundations for much of the world we're living in today. Subscribe to Gone Medieval from History Hit wherever you get your podcasts. What I'd love to ask about also is the awesome, rare, it almost feels like kind of a Terminator-like class, the skeezle. Alyssa, what is the skeezle? This again, as you said, quite rily, was extremely rare. I think there's only one reference to them.

And a lot of people think it's made up because it looks so made up. This gladiator would be completely different to a normal gladiator. Hence, the whole body would be covered in armour. They'd be dressed almost like a soldier. They'd be wearing a full set of scale. We think they wore what was equivalent to Lorica, the soldier's armor on their legs and on their arms we don't know it was obviously it could have been greaves it could have been a form of some kind of lorica their helmet looked almost medieval it was all square which was unusual for gladiator helmets they tended to be more bulbous and it was very restrictive very small eye holes the unusual weapon they had

on their arm was like almost an arm guard so it was like a big tube your hand went in on the tube was a stalk with like what would look almost like a scythe kind of shape and they would use this to hack and slash these gladiators were unusual because sometimes they'd be paired with another identical gladiator. But to make it more entertaining, they sometimes blindfolded them. So they would literally be running around, hacking at each other. And when they actually made contact, the audience would all be screaming and shouting because they'd hit something, might be the slave that's pushing them around, and they might be hacking away at them. And it's the poor old slave. So it was a bit of entertainment, a bit of fun, a bit cruel to us, I know hacking away at them and it's the poor old slaves so it was a bit entertainment a bit of fun a bit cruel to us i know but to them it all added to the entertainment

factor it's always something to remember isn't it yes and alissa focusing on women gladiators again then these names of achillea amazonia the literary sources although they're espoused do we have any detailed accounts do you have any stories that you'd like to talk about of women gladiators from the Roman period? The only stories we've got is actually the poem from Duval who describes a woman in training, in fighting. It's damning and it's cutting, but it gives you an idea of maybe a little bit more of the personality of the woman who's fighting. It describes them squatting like a man to go to the bathroom. So it also describes them wearing the heavy padding on their legs, which made their thighs look large.

Whether they were big women, we don't know. There's references to her having a husband so that we should know she was married because it explains that the husband would have to sell off her armor when she passed away and it's the joke of him selling her helmet her greaves and her manicure in a sale and also the fact that her skin would have been delicate and would be chafed by the heavy armor and the fabric because a lot of free-born women volunteered to be female gladiators who were used to wearing silks and then they go to wearing heavy cumbersome armor so maybe there's a reference there to that a lot of the women were quite were quite ladylike but obviously you would

have then had the slaves and the criminals and the captives. But this is kind of a little peek into maybe this was a freeborn woman who was fighting and hence the reason the poem was so cutting because it was frowned upon to have women fighting or doing a man's role as such. That story from Juvenile was really interesting.

And this is quite a difficult question to follow up because I know you can't really have a complete cut-off point because the Roman Empire is vast especially in the Imperial periods some places will go out of fashion before others but do we have any rough idea from our sources from the evidence that survives when we think women gladiators possibly fell out of fashion and it came to an end? We do actually it's not forites that they all did, but an emperor, Septimus Siviris, in 200 AD,

passed basically a bill to say that any woman who's free-born or under the age of 30 was no longer allowed to fight in the arena. So from then on, you could still fight as a female, as a slave, or over the age of 30. After that, we have absolutely no idea how long it carried on. Generally the empire collapsed in around the four or five hundreds which gladiators petered out probably in four hundreds so it was probably around about then that female fighters would have petered out but it probably would have carried on like anything. It would have been a rarity but it would have carried on.

Talk to me, what have you been doing around the gladiatorial combat at Chalk Valley and talk me through the preparation for it too. We are probably one of the only groups in the country, in fact in Europe, that do choreographed fighting. So we actually do what we call stage combat. We do it historically as best we can because it means we can do dangerous moves. So what we've been doing while we're here is practicing to finalize and well improve our fighting skills. We also do what we call free fighting which means we actually

just fight as you would using blunted weapons to get an idea of how the weapons were used, how you move, and to teach safety and coordination. There's lots of exercises and training we do to teach those things at the end of the day. And also we do shows, then put on a show for the public, so they can actually watch a gladiator games. So we actually did a little mock-up of a gladiator games from start to finish, from literally, you know, how it would start and how it would finish with all the details of that and you've got the crowd here today when you did that little spectacle yesterday in particular i mean going back to crowds then just before we wrap up

i mean alyssa and you have kind of mentioned it earlier but i'd like to reinforce do we know anything about the popularity of women gladiators in the arena? Kind of. Again, it's very vague. They must have been popular for so many women to fight. But then it contradicts and says that very few women fought. So it's a rarity. Obviously, we know of a clear and Amazonius, we knew two women fought then. But it's so vague. There's just an odd reference to maybe a female on a chariot, maybe a female firing a bow and arrow, the comedy side of it. But there was so few and far between. It's very hard to say. It's very vague. But given that the people who would want to sign up, it does make you wonder, though, doesn't it? I'm sure you've thought about this before. Who would want to sign up, especially if you were a free woman?

When you go back to Septimius Severus and his decree, who would want as a free woman to sign up to be a gladiator I think it was a case of women kind of wanting freedom and rights and a little bit of excitement they were human beings and they wanted adrenaline they wanted excitement and spend all day sewing and weaving and having very little rights. It was an avenue or a path to go down which a woman could. You couldn't join the Roman army. You couldn't do anything that involved any excitement or action. So for a woman, it was a case of, ah, yeah, I can go and do this. It's exciting.

I can meet some nice fellow gladiator men and get involved with that. There could be that aspect of it as well. And I think they just wanted adrenaline. I think that like women today, they wanted to do something that was pushing the boundary and a bit more exciting and a bit more interesting rather than mundane. Alyssa, this has been a fantastic little chat. It's been an absolutely incredible chat. It's been an absolutely incredible festival. It's great to see you and Legio 2 Augusta here. And it only goes for me to

say thank you so much for taking the time to come on the podcast right now. Thank you. It's been a pleasure.