The Ancients - The House of Ramesses II: Egypt's Greatest Pharaoh?

Episode Date: February 22, 2026

The name of Ramesses the Great is etched deeper into Egypt than almost any other ruler. Colossal statues moulded in his image tower over the Nile. Reliefs of his victories are carved into countless temple walls. But were did Ramesses II come from? And how was this legend of Egyptian history born?In this episode of The Ancients, Tristan Hughes is joined by Dr Campbell Price to uncover the rise of the House of Ramesses and the century of crisis that paved the way for Egypt’s most famous pharaoh. From dynastic turmoil and religious upheaval to military revival and monumental propaganda, discover how Ramesses II seized his moment and shaped a legacy that has endured for over 3,000 years. Was he Egypt’s greatest ruler or its greatest architect of reputation?MOREThe Great SphinxListen on AppleListen on SpotifyThe Pyramids of GizaListen on AppleListen on Spotify Watch this episode on our YouTube channel: @TheAncientsPodcastPresented by Tristan Hughes. Audio editor is Aidan Lonergan. The producer is Joseph Knight. The senior producer is Anne-Marie Luff.All music courtesy of Epidemic SoundsThe Ancients is a History Hit podcast.Sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe. You can take part in our listener survey here:https://insights.historyhit.com/history-hit-podcast-always-on Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Just visit historyhit.com slash subscribe. Hello from Abu Symbol, one of the greatest Egyptian temples surviving today. I'm currently here about 30 kilometres from the border with Sudan and I'm staring at four colossal statues of Ramesses the Second of Ramesses the Great. Very much him showing this image that he was divine, that he was a great builder and that he was the man in charge of this land, of the area. of what was known as Lower Nubia. It's his story that we're covering today,

his rise to prominence. What do we know? Well, to talk through it all, I was delighted to interview the one and only Dr. Campbell Price from Manchester Museum. Let's go. It's 3,315 years ago,

and a young Egyptian prince walks through a towering monument. He is at the prestigious ancient city of Thebes in Upper Egypt, the capital of famous phoronic predecessors like Thutmos III and Hatshepsut, and the home of a renowned temple complex dedicated to Egypt's chief god, Amun. Its name, Ipetzut, Karnak. The young prince walks through the newest great building being constructed at the sanctuary commissioned by his father, the current pharaoh. The interior is a dense forest of columns, more than a hundred in total, each over 15 metres

in height, closely spaced, and supporting a large roof above, with slits high up in the walls to let in beams of sunlight. This great hall was to be a centre of ceremonies and rituals for Amun, where only the pharaoh, his family and his closest entourage could enter. This newest sacred space for Amun is not yet complete. Decoration still need to be added. Reliefs of pharaohs, gods and offerings still need to be carved into the walls and columns. Paint still needs to be applied. But the work is underway. As the prince walks through the hall, the sounds of workmen grow louder. He exits the northern entrance and sees a great cluster of builders. They are gathered around the exterior wall, busy carving reliefs into it.

The prince recognizes the scene instantly. There in the wall is his victorious father, larger than any other figure, riding a chariot. There are countless captives bound in front of him, a river filled with crocodiles, and a city under siege. The scene records his father's most recent military venture up into Syria, and the the great bastion of Kadesh, a city hotly contested between the Egyptians and their northern rivals the Hittites. The campaign had proven a success. The prince's father had returned to Egypt in a stronger position, consolidating his family's

new hold over the throne. Setti was his name, Vero Setti the first. And his young son, then overseeing his father's achievements being immortalized in stone. was none other than Ramesses, soon to be Pharaoh Ramesses II, Ramesses the Great. In this episode, we are going to cover this early story of Ramesses, how his family, including both his father Setti and his father before him, became pharaohs of Egypt after a period of turmoil for this Bronze Age superpower, laying the foundations for Ramesses and his extraordinary reign,

a rain that included great battles, buildings and so much more. I'm Tristan Hughes, your host, and this is the story of the Rise of Ramesses, with our guest, Dr Campbell Price. Campbell, it is such a pleasure to have you back on the show. Hello, Tristan, it's nice to be back. And we've done episodes in the past up at your work home, Manchester Museum, and now you're down in our lovely studio in London. And to talk about what the rise of the rise of...

of Ramesses the Second, first of all, and his dynasty, the 19th dynasty. Yes, I mean, Ramesses the Second is a well-known household name, but it's interesting to consider how he became the Great and why people later thought he was so great. I mean, a 66-year reign, isn't that correct? Yeah. Around that time. And normally, if someone says Ramsey's the Second or Ramesses the Great, you might think this is the pinnacle of ancient Egypt.

This is when it's at the top of its military might, its wealth, its art and architecture. Is that a fair assessment? Some would tell you, some rather unchargesful people might say it had well past the zenith of ancient Egypt in terms of artistic production. And there is a sense, I'm sure it'll come up as we're talking, that Rameses I'm trying to recapture a few centuries before when Egypt was really expanding. Not so much an empire, I hesitated to use the word empire, but it's kind of field of influence. So he's trying to influence people and places, neighboring countries, neighboring cultures, in ways his predecessors would.

So actually he's kind of looking back to a golden age of years past in a revival time almost. Yeah, he's got a bar, I think, in his head where he's trying to reach back to it. So yeah, we're talking about the 1200s, BCE, but, you know, 1300s, 1400s, you're really getting, for one of a better term, the imperial conquest.

And paint us a bit more of a picture briefly before we delve into the detail. tells. A quick picture of Ramesses, the man, what we should get an idea of how we should picture him before we delve into the origins of Israel and of his family. Well, as you already said, he is exceptional because he rules for 66 years. With one exception, he's probably the longest-raining Egyptian pharaoh. So given it was a dangerous job being the king of any ancient power, you must have some personal charisma and command to not be attacked, you know, rebelled against or been bumped off by your family. So I think he knows his grandfather.

He follows in a fairly nude, in a state of Arabist group of military people, and he has 100 children. Wow. Okay, you save that. We'll save that till his later in. But as a boy, he must know he's destined for greatness. That's not simply a back projection from when he becomes king as some other pharaohs imagine as if they had been selected from the egg. They conquered in the egg. That is something that's said of other kings.

Ramesses the second as a prince really does seem to be groomed for greatness and when he gets the chance when his father eventually dies, he really goes for it on quets scale. This is a man who's royalty throughout his life. He's not the man who wins a coup or anything like that. No, exactly. Yes, exactly. So he's, to himself, he's blue-blooded, but the family, they're fairly new kids on the block, given the previous dynasty. The 18th dynasty is a long stretch of very interesting characters.

Well, the 18th dynasty, that is where we need to begin. So we're going back more than a century before Ramesses's reign. And the 18th dynasty, it is full of these incredible large-than-life figures, isn't it? Tutankarmon, Hatshepsut, Nefertiti, Akhenatenaten. I mean, paint us a picture of the... 18th dynasty quick. Oh, well, that's very difficult. Okay, so you get some heavy hitters early on. So you have essentially the War of Liberation against the Hicksos, these northerners who have ruled Egypt and who need to be expelled. And that happens, that really heralds the beginning of the 18th dynasty, about 1,500 and something. BCE, and that's Ackmose. Ach, we're now calling him the second. He used to be called Ackmosey the first. But because we've discovered an earlier Ackmose. We're calling him Archimosey the second. Then he initiates a line of not necessarily blood relations

because we get Amin Hothet the First, who's a son of Archmosey, but then we get Tupmose the First. So he's a real warrior king, and he not only repels foreign invasions, he doesn't just expel people like Archmosey the First, but he actively seeks to expand that field of influence, that sphere of influence of Egypt. And I think it's that that sets the precedent

for Ramesses to look back on. The whole dynasty, it's a time of kind of wealthy art and architecture, amazing structures like the obelisks, warrior kings, but also powerful queens as well, like at Shepset. So as you mentioned right at the start, this actually feels like the real zenith of ancient Egypt rather than the 19th dynasty that follows.

Yeah, I think that's fair. In kind of rough terms, if we're thinking about success as artistic quality, and that's very subjective, of course, criterion, and how much actual gold there is in the treasury. So Tuchmo's the third as an important character. He's sometimes called the Napoleon of ancient Egypt. Expansionist.

He is working in concert with his aunt, his stepmother, Hachipsuit, the female pharaoh, who rules for 20-odd years. By his side, much is made of the potential rivalry, Ray, the kind of the cookie cutter impression of the wicked stepmother, forget it. The relationship is much more complicated than that. But setting the precedent for Ramsey's the second, Tuchmo's the third leaves things in pretty good condition. His son, Amunhotep II, yeah, pretty good.

By the reign of Aminhotep III, you do get the impression that he's just sat down, just enjoying being luxurious, because his forefathers have done it for him, He is not really going out doing battle, and then maybe the decadence sets in. And so his son is Amin Hottah the 4th, better known as Akanatin. And he is an unapologetic weirdo for an ancient Egyptian king. He kind of rips up the rulebook to an extent.

And then much is made, although I'm not sure how plausible I find this, much is made of the fact that we have an archive from the reign of Akanaten and the end of the reign of Amunhoda the 3rd that talks about foreign diplomatic exchange. So you have a sense of, again, we're using modern terms which I probably don't apply,

a foreign office, which basically has cuneiform that's so-called the Marne Letters that talk about, you know, please my brother, because they're all calling the kings of the... This brotherhood of kings, of the Levant, of the Bronze Age,

that part of the world. They are asking, you know, for the Egyptian king to say, in gold because gold is as plentiful as sand, you know, send me a real gold statue, a solid gold statue, not just a plated gold statue, send me chariot, send me all the nice stuff. But there is a sense in which, and it may be typical,

we don't have the other side of the dialogue, but there is a sense that the Egyptian king Akhenatun is maybe not doing as much as he could to maintain Egyptian imperial possessions. And that is important, because there does seem to be a lull in Egyptian foreign influence in the Levant. And it is that, ultimately, that the dynasty of Ramsey's the second seeks to reestablish. So this almost steady decline of the 18th dynasty following Firmus the 3rd, isn't it, that we're going to explore? And you mentioned source material there, like you had

those letters in Cunea form. Do we have quite a rich array of source material for learning about the 18th dynasty and the latter half of the 18th dynasty as we get to the right. To the right ultimately of the House of Rememises? Well, we're so dependent on official proclamations, which are given a flavour, shall we say, if we're being positivist, that give some kind of flavour, but they don't recount the detail

anything like the way a historian would want today. But you're right that those cuneiform tablets, the Amarna Letters, offer a really fascinating insight, because these are one-on-one-one. discussions. This is the Queen of Egypt rights or the King of Egypt rights to their opposite number. So you get a sense of the geopolitics of the time, but it's shrouded in decorum, what is appropriate to say in certain contexts, and we only really have one side of the discussion.

So if we have, let's say Egypt at its height under Thutmose III, ruling an empire at that time, I mean, how big an empire should we be thinking of? And I want to ask that question first of all, because if we then fast forward to, let's say, the reign of Akanarton, so we can get a real sense of how that empire is already transforming by that Pharaoh, by the time of Akanaten and Hotep the 4th. Yeah. So purely in terms of geographical extent, and again, I'd emphasize, I wouldn't think of it as an empire like the Roman Empire or the British Empire,

but it's an area of influence. Egypt itself, it should always be stressed, is the perfect country. So Egypt, bordered naturally by the Mediterranean, by the deserts, by the cataracts to the south at Aswan is ideal. You don't need, Egypt doesn't need to expand. It's already perfect set by the gods. But to the north, in the reign of Tupmos III, you know, there's areas of influence up to the Euphrates. So it's a big stretch of up into what is now modern Syria and Iraq to the south, deep into what is now Sudan. to the west, of course, there's Libya,

and we'll come back to Libya because Rameses really makes a point of that as well. And so these are the kind of the natural extents of ancient Egyptian exploitation. So they want stuff. They're not interested really in everyone believing in the Egyptian way of life.

Yes, there are elite key people that pay homage to the king and send tribute, but they want stuff, they want materials, they want gold, they want, you know, access to metals, to exotic products, to people. There's exploitation of people, of course, there are enslaved people in all of this. But maybe not quite of the character that maybe we've been led to think in scriptural sources. And so that's at its height.

I mean, so how does it decline by the time we get to Akhenaten, a few decades? is it quite a few decades later, isn't it? Yeah, so if we think, so Tuttmose is in the 1400s, Akanatun is the mid-1300s, so 60, 70 to 80 years later, there is a lot of ping-ponging goes on between, so if you're a kind of small state

in the south of modern Syria, say, and you've got the Egyptians who claim, you know, control, or some kind of nominal control, of your land and want you to send tribute, that's fine if they come and they have a military sortie and they beat you up. But then when the Egyptians withdraw back to their capital at Memphis, this will be important later, then they're quite far away from the south of Syria. And Memphis is almost the northern capital as well, isn't it?

Yeah, that's the apex of the delta, where the delta meets the valley in Egypt. but then if you've got the Hittites who are the north of Syria you've got peoples to what is in what is now modern Turkey you've got the Assyrians more towards the west

when they come and threaten you you'll immediately change loyalty to the person the big bad wolf that's closer to you so the Egyptians always had a problem about exerting influence from so far away and maybe that led to a shift in the

the notional capital which was affected by the 19th dynasty So that's interesting So do you therefore see as As those decades go on in the 18th dynasty Do you see those new powers like the Hittites Like the Assyrians becoming more prominent

And Egypt In contrast You know these rulers become a bit more Obsessed with their luxuries This idea of decadence and so on And so Egyptian power On the Well the Bronze Age world stage does diminish

And the other powers It's like the Hittites does grow at that time. Yes, there's definitely a sense of the expansion and the kind of awakening of other powers. But you're right to say that by the reign of Amunhotep the third, so again, 1,300's, there is this sense of the international court. So, yeah, internationalism is a sign of kind of cosmopolitan life at court for the wealthy.

But while people are enjoying, you know, the latest imported pottery and very fine designs and jewelry, other military things might be slipping. And that is in proportion to the ambition of other powers. Okay, so what follows Akanatin? It doesn't involve Akenartin, does it? Yeah, you could say that, I suppose. We don't know what exactly happens.

Akanaten is very experimental. The experiment backfires, and they have to undo all the revolutionary. Sorry, very briefly, this experimental stuff. I know, this is another episode in the same right. Well, right. So Akan Aten

Aten decides there are no gods but the sun god, a special form of the sun god and he is the unique interlocutor with the sun god, the Aten. So that's why he changes his name from Amen Hotep.

The god Amun is satisfied to Akan Aten effective for the Aten and then for, gosh, 15, 16, 17 years he and his immediate successes to a degree we're not quite sure of

espouse the worship of the Aton and they close all the other temples. So quite apart from it just being a religious revolution, it is an economic challenge because imagine you're the high priest of the god Amun and the king says, nope, we're closing the temple of Karnak.

Okay then. This is almost a bit of economic self-destruction at the same time. Yeah, I mean people have compared it to Henry VIII and monasteries and, you know, trying to rest power from these religious institutions into the hands of the king, which I think there's a good argument that that's what Akanatans trying to do. But it creates all kinds of issues. Anyway, Akanaten says he himself is going back to, well, going back, going to a new virgin site, his capital city, what we call Amarna now, the city of Akhet. Hence the Amarna letters that you mentioned. Exactly. So this is the source of the so-called diplomatic correspondence in the foreign office. But so that, that's, settlement in Middle Egypt is the home of the king. It's where the king and the elite are going to be

buried. And you get the sense that Akanathans really kind of sequestered himself away at Amarna and is ignoring other things where traditionally the king in ancient Egypt moved around. It was a peripatetic court, as in other traditions. The king moves around to keep an eye on people to make sure that they're loyal. Who knows what else is happening in Egypt at this time, but the court is focused in Middle Egypt. So you could see that the letters are around. arriving, St. Akinatin, we could do with your help. If you want to maintain your presence in this part of the Levant, then please send help. And he doesn't seem to send help. He doesn't. So alarm bells are ringing, feels a bit of a tumultuous time inside Egypt and beyond for Egyptian

influence. So what follows him? I mean, how do we get to these last big figures in the 18th dynasty? And I guess this gradual decline that follows? Well, the biggest name, in terms of historical cache is, of course, Tutankhamen-Kalman. So, Tutankhamen, by most accounts, is the son of Akanatun, right? And he comes to the throne we can be as sure as we can be sure at nine or ten years old. Oh, dear, wow. He's a little boy, and he is being controlled by kind of revisionist politicians, for one of a better term, who want to backtrack on the revolution.

And so all of this is put in the words of the boy king, I have restored the temples. And where the gods, you know, abandoned and ignored Egypt, I have, I have propitiated them and put things back to how they were. Of course, a 10-year-old boy is not getting in a chariot really. Maybe towards the end of his life, in his later teenage years, there is evidence that Toon Come and does engage in some kind of military activity. But there must be powers, and we know there are powers, military powers, that are not. not blood relations of the royal family who are thinking, right, we need to get some action going here

to reclaim, or at least to maintain some of these, again, areas of influence. I don't think it's trying to defend the empire because I think the empire, such as it was, had already frayed. It is about trying to push those trade alliances, yeah, areas of influence. So kind of like military advisors at court kind of thing,

or actual active commanders in the first. active commanders in the field. And so those people who usually would be kind of subordinate advisors to the king really rise in prominence. So it didn't come and dies however he dies, believe what you want, chariot accident, malaria, killed by a hippo, whatever. We'll never know. But then he's succeeded by this kind of shadowy elder figure, the god's father, I, who rules for a couple of years. It's a Y, isn't it? Yes, AY or AYE.

He is very odd. And then he eventually is succeeded by an out-and-out military man. And this is your man, Horam-Hib. Now, this is a very interesting figure. So what do we know about Horam-Hib? So Horam-Hib comes from non-royal backgrounds, as far as we can tell.

He must, of course, be a mover and a shaker. He's in the royal courts. but he clearly, we know from the extensive preserved evidence of his tomb at Sakara, where he built a really impressive tomb chapel to celebrate his eternal cult. He was then in charge of the military. So he says he's the chief of the soldiers, the fighting men. He's also in charge of building works. And I think this is important to understand Horamheb.

He is not just a military man. He's in charge of the recruits. and the recruits are guys who can equally be sent on a campaign to beat people up as they can be sent to a quarry, as they can be sent to a mine. So you're in charge not just of, you know, military personnel, but you're in charge of people. And so he's unusual. Horam hip is unusual because we've got statues of him where he's very proudly writing things down as a scribe. so don't think of him as a kind of meathead guy who's just a bit of a brute

I think he's intelligent he's clearly someone who understands the workings of the state and who is proud of his ability as an administrator so he really is an all-rounder and so when the throne eventually passes to him he's in charge for almost a couple of decades he has a long reign

so he's again holding the reins of power and he is the one who really goes back and tries to scrub out evidence of Akinatin or begins that process and he is a military usurper so the fact that then he has a success oh you took a big breath there yeah I mean that it sounds dramatic

but I don't think you're far from the truth and so he instigates what is essentially a military coup yes yes that's so thinking and the state of the army at that time because I can imagine enormous, Horamab, if he's staged this coup, then he needs substantial support amongst the army itself. Do we know much about what the army looked like at this time? Is it split around the place? Is it professional? What would we be imagining? So compared to earlier periods, say the Middle Kingdom, you know, a few hundred years before, when we know there are military

raids going on, down into Nubia, up into the Levant, it seems that to raise an army, you basically go around and say, come on, chaps, who wants to fight? Whereas by the end of the 18th dynasty, there is a professionalization. So you will say, I'm a charioteer. My father was a charioteer. So there must be, I hesitate to say a military class, but there are a group of people whose ancestors have fought and done some pretty impressive things, possibly in the 18th dynasty.

So yes, I think there isn't a professionalization. And maybe these people have been in the reign of Akanatim possibly sitting around with nothing to do. and you could imagine someone like Horamheb organizing these people and that charismatic figurehead right yeah and in Horam Hebs first because he has two tombs because he becomes a pharaoh

therefore takes a tomb in the Valley of the Kings down at Thebes but in his first tomb he's showing you know engaged in things to do with military activity under Tutankhamen so we should understand it that

Tutankhamen is the nominal the notional patron he's sending off the trips into battle but it's Horam Hebb who's actually doing it and commanding them He's the one who probably has the respect more of the actual soldiers on the ground and soldiers why should we be thinking

the chariots for the elites and then everyday Egyptian soldiers, archers or infantry with not too much equipment? Yeah so remember we're still in the Bronze Age who are fighting with bronze metal weapons this is not the Iron Age yet in Egypt you are going into battle you as a foot soldier with a shield

which is a pretty important a dagger or a sword and an axe Oh an axe are you going to axe someone but you should also I guess remember that the chariot is still a fairly modern invention

it's a couple of hundred years old and I think we think of ancient Egypt as always having used chariots but they've come into Egypt from the north maybe brought with the Hixos and these wars of liberation. And those are only, yeah, a couple of hundred years before. So, Horam-Heb has the connections, the elite military connections with other generals, so that's

important. And then, as you say, he probably has the loyalty of the foot soldiers, the infantry. It's so interesting with Horam-Hab, because so often in ancient history, you might see, you know, a dynasty, a rolled figure be toppled by a military figure. But then so often, right after that, either that military figure proves incapable of being an administrator and ruling, or you see it just break out into other generals think, actually, I don't respect you as my leader anymore. I'm going to try and seize power myself. So you see a breakdown into civil war, the fracturing of kingdoms and so on.

So does that make Horam Hemp's achievement even greater, the fact that he does reign for a long time and does prove to be quite an, it seems quite an effective ruler? Based on the evidence, always there's caveat. That's good point. Based on the evidence that we have, of course, that the ruler is honour bound to describe themselves as the best and God-given

and doing everything very effectively they're not recording negative things but still you do get the sense that Horam-Hib is an effective ruler the one thing that he lacks is an air a male

air right and this is again some responsible thinking for any ruler if you don't have an air you don't have a spare you don't have a male descendant blood descendant, you have to make plans to make it absolutely clear who is going to be the next king because you could drop dead at any moment. Is adoption a thing at the time? Yes. Adoption is a social

practice in Egypt. It's an important social practice. So at that level, I mean, it's relatively unusual that kings who have many wives don't somehow manage to produce a male heir. But Horamhead, for whatever reason, doesn't have surviving male, surviving sons. So he, I don't. I don't. I don't adopts, for one of a better term, this chap Paramesu, who is the vizier, the charti, the kind of chief minister, but also has a military background. And he is from the, we know a bit about him, his background, his father Setti, based in the eastern Nile Delta,

so the family hometown is known about. And so he has the great advantage of having a living son and probably a living grandson. So there is a line ready. So maybe these guys are just mates. They're just friends from the battlefield. But maybe there are other strategic, social, political reasons. So we can presume that, I mean,

Parham Hib choosing his heir and Parramisu, you know, probably was a loyal subordinates in the close circle, but also, aside from that loyalty, someone who had that family line. Sure. We don't know if he had any connection to the royal family of older at all, do we? You could expect that if you didn't have a connection, you'd want there to be a connection by marrying a random princess of royal blood. That was quite effective. And it tended to be the blue-blooded women who really made the king, who really confirmed the legitimacy of the line.

So is Parr-Ramisu, can I clue in the name, is he the beginning of this new dynasty, of the 19th dynasty? Yes. And what Egyptologists call the ramicide. age because he is as king when he becomes king for a short time for a couple of years he takes the name Ramesses and he becomes Ramesses the first. He's Ramesses the first because we always hear about Ramesses the second don't we but we don't hear about Ramesses the first

and do we know much about his reign? It's short-lived as you say but do we know much? It's short-lived he has ambition you know he starts a very nice tomb in the Valley of the Kings which has to literally be cut short because he only lives a couple of years but something about Ramesses the first so we are used to

using these names, which are the people in question, birth names. So the parents of Ramesses I call him Paramesu, which means literally he of the sun god. Wow. But his name as king, he takes on a series of names, but the names, the ancient Egyptians would have known these people by, is the throne name, the pre-nomon as opposed to the nomen. The nomen is your birth name, what your family might call you.

but the throne name for Ramesses the first is telling so he's called men pechti ray so that means literally the strength of the sun god is established or establishing the strength of the sun god so pechti means strength and we know that the first king of the 18th dynasty

achmosi the second who's this military guy he is called neb pechdi re so there's this reference to strength and we know also that the family are from this part of the eastern delta in the north of Egypt where the god Seth is the local patron

Now who's the god Seth? Now Seth, we've encountered him before you and I but Seth is kind of the ying to the yang of Horus so he's often described in very negative terms because he's a god of storms and he tries to do nasty things to his nephew

but he's also great of strength that God Seth is emblematic of this kind of brute, uncontrolled, voracious strength on the battlefield. So the fact that Ramesses is the first takes that name, I think, is politically and religiously the two are interconnected.

And so he originates, his family originates from the north of Egypt. Yes. But when he becomes Pharaoh, at that time, does he have to relocate himself further south? because you mentioned the value of the kings earlier. Yes. Although Horamab is buried much further north at Sakara, but is it at that time that Luxor and ancient Thebes is the main centre of Egypt?

Yes, though I should say Horam Hebs' tomb is abandoned in the north because he's not really buried there because he's a king. He has artisans go and add a snake to his brow on almost all the depictions of him in his tomb at Sakara in the north because he's become a king. but a king in the new kingdom of Egypt at that time cannot be buried

in a mere Sakara tomb he's got to be buried in the royal cemetery at the valley of the kings So there's a tomb of Hormeb at the valley of the kings So Ramesses the first and this is an interesting question unlike Akanatten doesn't just

stay in one place at one time and stick there he moves around I think he starts back well he continues this tradition of of the peripatetic court, but there is definitely a favouring of the north. Oh, okay. And it may be that Ramesses I first gives his name to an incredible new settlement developed by his son,

Setti the First, and his grandson, Ramsey's the Second, and that is called Piramseys, or Per Ramsey's, which an ancient Egyptian means house of Ramesses. So this is why I want to talk about Ramsey's the First for quite a bit, because he lasts not very long at all, And yet, from the surviving evidence of, you know, first his son and then Ramesses the Great, you can actually see perhaps a few of the projects that he had in mind that he didn't get to live long enough to see through. Yeah, I think that's a really good way to think about it, Tristan, because I think, well, he gives his name to 11 kings. This whole period, as I said, is called the Ramicide period in the first Ramesses. Ramsey's the first must have ambition because he's chosen by Horamib.

he must be quite a dynamic guy and he must pass on at least to his son if not to his grandson spoken instructions for what he wants to achieve so Ramesses the great his grandson is alive at the time that Ramesses I'm the first is ruling for that

period I think he must be so I think whether Ramsey's the second prince the young prince is already anointed as the chosen success I mean, even the concept of the crown prince that you get modern, you know, European monarchies, I don't think that quite applies. You don't have to be, it is notionally the eldest son, but there is internal competition. And I think it is up to the reigning monarch, the king, to say, okay, you're better than him. And so, so, you know, there's the heir apparent may not necessarily be the eldest, eldest boy. but I'm as sure as I can be given the rain length of Seti I first,

that the baby young boy, Ramsey's the second, is known to his grandfather. Interesting. Well, then let's talk about Seti the First. So what do we know about his reign following the death of Ramsey's the First? He gets to it pretty quickly. And by most Egyptologists' estimation, Setti the First really is a pretty self-conscious and effective patron of the arts.

He takes this very interesting name, which is a throwback itself to earlier kings, Wechem Messut, which means literally repeater of births. So literally an ancient Egyptian, it means Renaissance. He wants to undo a lot of the

Amarna interlude. We know that. He goes around restoring images of Amun, adding his own name, where the name wasn't there previously, and in that he inspires his son deeply. I think there is a deep psychological thing about this. Still remember new kids in the block, Aravist dynasty, they want to make absolutely sure that their claim is solid and will last

and they do that by restoring the works of their ancestors and shouting about how much they've restored the works of their ancestors. And so set of the first commissions this incredible temple, which still is one of my favourite sites in Egypt at Abidos, the site in the south of Egypt a bit north of Thebes. That's the sacred site of the ancient god Osiris. So you very easily, by building a temple there, connect yourself to this very long-standing cult of the god of rebirth. And in that temple, beautifully decorated temple,

there is a very significant corridor, very significant for historical reasons, because following on a tradition, which itself was quite old, of celebrating previous kings, there is a scene of Setti the First and his young son Ramesses reading out, declaiming, announcing, ritualising the names of all their predecessors. And this hall of ancestors is significantly located

between the abattoir and the temple offering rooms. So all the offerings of, you know, the beef have to go in front of the corridor. So you are feeding the soul. of everyone named on the wall as you pass. So it's this metaphysical sense of not just celebrating, look at all these great kings who have come before, but ensuring that their souls quite literally are sustained

with offerings by locating the offering list in this particular place. It also anchors and Ramesses the second inn as prince. Crown prince this time we think, yeah. Yeah, I mean, really as the heir apparent. and there must be what's not uncommon in ancient Egypt a co-regency so there is not just a crown prince there is a nominated successor

who kind of shares the throne and maybe you know SETI the first saw or foresaw that he wasn't going to live a very long life he can only be 40-ish when he dies and then Rameses the second must come to the throne

pretty young 20 maybe I mean it feels like Setti his reign it's a decade or so, isn't it? Yeah, a bit more than a decade. But yes, because Ramesses I first has died so quickly, he is focused in like kind of consolidating the new dynasty, legitimising its position with those kind of images,

those dedications to temples and ancestors. But also, I guess, military activity too. That's another important thing he has to do. Yes, yes, absolutely, you're right. We know this on the north wall of the outside of the main temple of Amunakana. Yes. You've been now. You've stood in front.

I mean, my gosh. And often it's missed by tourists. They're impressed by the Hyperstyle Hall and what's going on inside. But if you step outside, you see an absolutely incredible depiction of military engagements where, you know,

Setti I first is leading his troops into battle along the ways of Horace. So this is up northeast into the Levant. And so there is, again, there's a lot of trying to control these ping-pong states to try and get them back under Egyptian control

and where in some cases, especially when it comes to the Hittites, you get the impression that Setti the first will let some, he picks his battles quite literally, and he lets some sleeping dogs lie where maybe Prince Ramesses who may actually be involved. He may be as a teenager physically be involved on campaign. You get the sense, maybe seti the first stops short

where Ramesses the second wants to continue and push further when eventually he becomes king. It's like Philip the second of Macedon and Alexander the Great. It's the dad that lays the foundations for the sun. Yeah. Footsteps. Interesting. Good analogy, yeah. But no, I just want to focus a bit more on that north wall

of the Hyderstar rule at Karnak because you look at it and one of my favourite pictures, parts of it, is you see a river full of crocodiles. Yes, you're snapping at the poor, unfortunate to have gone at the river. This idea that the Egyptians have to cross this river, I think it's like the Sinai Peninsula, that area they think it is around there, to get into Syria

where they're campaigning. And then I think you see another depiction of Kadesh of all places in SETI's reign. And he's besieging Kadesh at that time. It's SETI, not Ramesses. Indeed. So people hear Battle of Kadesh, and if they know anything about ancient warfare, they think of Rameses the second. But the

grudge with Kadesh definitely dates back to the reign of SETI at the first. So Kadesh is in what is now modern Syria. So it's far from Egypt. You have to take several weeks to go there by foot with a big army. But that's what SETI does. He goes. He campaigns there. And this is partly a hangover of the Amarna period that those depictions are so detailed. That is an Amarna thing. You would never see that level of detail in the reign of Tumos III. And maybe there's something to be proven, maybe it's Setti the first really trying to make the point, that there must be

something like a kind of court war correspondent or war artist, because the detail is very specific. And most ancient Egyptian scenes do not reflect history as it happened and don't reflect the world as it actually is. But yeah, there are details that bring about this world in which foreigners, anyone who's unfortunate enough to be non-Egyptian, is in disarray, and the Egyptians are successful in campaign. So the local detail, the scenes of, yeah, a siege, fortifications, canals, rivers, you know, siege warfare, that does seem to ring true. God, it's so fascinating, isn't it? And with Seti's reign, although he doesn't last very long, actually one other thing, we mentioned Karnak there in the hyperstyle hole,

which we normally associate with Ramesses II. Constructed beginning under SETI or maybe even older than that, do we think? I think it maybe was conceptualised all the way back under Amunhotep the third and SETI the first does the bulk of the work. So I think it's really realized by SETI the first. And he begins to decorate it and by the time he dies, it's half finished. Right. And so Ramesses II

completes it. But it is an absolutely astounding piece of architecture, you know, world architecture, absolutely breathtaking. And his tomb as well on the Valley of the Kings, it's one of the most pristine, remarkable tombs.

Jewel-like. And it's funny because Ramesses II's is in real terms bigger, but is much, much less well-preserved. Interesting. Without SETI's reign, I mean,

how successful would you argue that SETI is? Because normally it is the case of the predecessors. really sets the scene for the greatness of the person that follows in several cases, once again, Philip and Alexander. How successful do you think SETI is in the context of, you know, consolidating control and getting the 19th dynasty really on track? Oh, I think he's pretty successful. I think he, as you said, sets the train in motion

for what he hopes is going to be a long-lived dynasty, as we all discussed maybe in the next episode, the fact that his son is so long lived may actually compromise, Setti's plans. But as a military man, clearly, you know, I guess Setti the first would have remembered a time when he was not meant to be the king. You know, he was a military general. He was the son of a military general. He was someone important, but he had to prove himself amongst his colleagues. Yeah, his peers, exactly. so he has the kind of kingship thrust upon him you could say so he has that genuine ingenuity where

in his conscious life Ramesses the second was always a prince so you always have that kind of the silver spoon in his mouth so maybe his ambition is slightly different from his father's but his father in terms of especially in terms of architectural and artistic

work as you mentioned the tomb in the valley of the kings, work at Karnag, other sites as well, but at the temple of set to the first at Abidos. These are just beautiful things, and I think he does instigate this co-regency that sets the scene for Ramesses II. And when eventually Ramesses II takes the throne, he says at that Abidos temple, I arrived here and found it unfinished, and I finished it in honor of his father. So he doesn't change the names. Well, he doesn't. around the ages, perhaps. He completes it in his own name,

which is completely okay by ancient Egyptian standards. It's not that the son is trying to elbow the father out of the way. He's simply complimenting his father because kingship is timeless. And none of those images of the kings look like the real people on the walls. So you can simply continue the imagery. It's not a conflict in the way we might think. And so we get to the reign of Ramesses II. We'll cover only the first few years as we wrap up this episode.

But firstly, is there any challenger to Ramesses the second succession? If Setti's made it quite clear in his wall paintings and the reliefs that he seems to be the clear error apparent, do we know much about the succession and whether there was any difficulty around it? Well, there's an interesting set of evidence at Karnak. where there's a chap called Mechoo, Mechu or Mejee, I forget, who is shown in a very prominent position in these battle reliefs. So you get the sense that this guy is the right-hand man. And in some of those reliefs, his image has changed to being Prince Ramesses.

Now, I wouldn't make too much of this. I think that's just what's appropriate to Ramesses II. I don't think this represents another rival claimant to the throne. It may just be when the reliefs were executed, it was fitting at the time. And then as time progressed, Ramesses II really wanted to claim part of that legacy. But no, the succession seems fairly clear. As I said, there is a co-regency. And the, for example, that's seen in the Hall of Ancestors at Abados.

You can see that is a product of the work of SETI the first, when SETI the first is still alive. so it seems that Rameses II is the anointed heir and is accepted as such. And how does he initially reign? What do we even know about those earliest years of Rameses the second is Pharaoh? You get the impression, well, he has to finish off some of his dad's building stuff, but you do get that sense that he's itching to get in a chariot and go

really? Beat up some foreigners. So, as I say, it's probably likely that he had some experience in the entourage at least of his father, whether he's actively out on the front lines is another question. That doesn't seem to happen later in Ramsey's the Second's own reign, but he goes year four, year five, so early in the reign of Ramsey's the Second's long time in the throne,

he goes out to Kadesh again, and he wants to confirm the status of these vassal states. So these are kind of client kingdoms. again I resist this term empire. It's not like they're trying to turn them Egyptian. It's trying to get their loyalty, their fealty. It's buffers states as well

I guess, you know, buffers, vassol, yeah. Yeah, against a more problematic enemy which in the early part of the reign of Ramsey's the second, that's the Hittites. It's the Hittites. That's like the north of Syria even into modern Turkey is the

seat of the Hittite empire. So he feels he has beef, unfinished beef with Kadesh after his dad. So he goes up to Syria and is this when we get the famous battle of Kadesh? Yes, and it's famous because he tells us so many times. He's done it. It's recorded in several temples, his mansion of millions of years, which we'll talk about separately. Karnak, Luxor, Abu Simbel, he's talking about this a lot.

And so, yeah, the engagement is fascinating because we know a lot. lot from recorded speeches. So you get this sense, not just of the action as it plays out, but of the psychology of the king. Because there are, well, we can tell something about the, the organization of the military. So you have the infantry, you have the chariots, divided up into divisions and divisions are named after gods. I don't know how common that is in the ancient world. I can't think of any other examples that come to mind straight away. I'm sure someone will have a comment here there and saying that there might be one. But no, when you think of divisions of armies, you do think of Kadesh and this description that you have, right? Yeah. So

they're named after the major gods of Egypt, Amun, Abtah, Seth and the sun god Ray. And so in the account, it's very unusual. The Kadesh account is unusual because it reflects It's unusually reflective because it allows that mistakes are made by the Egyptians. So it talks about these informants are captured and these non-Egyptian informants

and they say, oh, the Hittite ruler is 120 he's far away. He's really far away, leagues off. And so the Egyptians are okay with that. So they kind of become a little complacent. maybe, when they're marching to make camp near Kadesh, then they get hold of better intelligence,

which says that the Hittites are much closer. And the Hittites, surprise, surprise, attack the Egyptians when they're unprepared. And so there's this extraordinary episode in which the attack comes, and it's really the king is said to be alone. He finds himself alone. And so the drama is,

and of course you can see how Rameses spins this, basically the greatness of the king comes at the expense of the soldiers who are usually said to be pretty good and pretty effective. No, no, their deserters or they're disorganized and so Ramesses personally has to fight off the Hittites, pursues them into the river, and so manages to win a kind of stalemate. So it's less bad than it could have been.

I mean, imagine the king could have been captured or killed or much worse could have happened. The Egyptians suffer, it has acknowledged, some heavy losses, but they are able to maintain this status quo. So it's a draw,

basically. The Battle of Kadesh, in the Hittite eyes, is a success for them, but in the Egyptian eyes is a success for the Egyptians. And Rameses, at least early on,

spins this as better to kind of keep it as it is, and then later we'll go back and regroup and in a couple of years, So he snatches a draw from the jaws of defeat. Yes. And you do get a sense then, don't you, putting aside all the Ramesses' own spin on it that he does later.

Yeah. This sense of this young, rash, you know, kid, like, young pharaoh, young man, yes, yeah, young man, I know, who wants to kind of follow in his dad's footsteps, but doesn't have the military institution there, maybe that he's lured into a bad position, bad intelligence, then gets the better intelligence later. And he's outwitted by this other king,

by this Hittite ruler on his chariots and the like, isn't it? Yeah, it's for the first time you see an Egyptian king and his opposite number, essentially the enemy, one a kind of even footing. So it almost emphasizes the scale of the challenge, and so the relative success of the draw, I guess, that the Hittites, in terms of numbers, are a big force. So to have got that stalemate is a win for Rameses.

So how significant do you think is the result at Kadesh for Ramesses if you look at what he does afterwards. If you take the actual military effect of it out of the picture, the fact that, okay, it is a draw. But is it ultimately a success for Ramesses because of what he then later does with that? Yes, because I think he can come back to Egypt.

Remember, there are no obvious to say, but it sounds a bit trivial. There are no smartphones. There are no photographs. the king has come back and maybe he's captured some booty from the battlefield and he says yeah great success guys

you will believe whatever the returning force says you don't have the fact checking you don't have the counter narrative so for Ramesses to come back after God it must be more than a year away so the king

has been away from Egypt away from the capital away from the palace for a long time So for him to come back with some stuff and the story is a success enough. And then he'll just paint those pictures of him on the walls of temples there looking triumphant as a figure to try and reinforce that image of a successful returning king. Absolutely. And I think also there is a sense of it being a stop gap because you could imagine he is still young. It's only year five, year six. You could think, right, well, I'll go back and have another goal. in future and then I'll recarve the wall.

Or I will achieve the success that I'm claiming on the wall as it stands. So is it very much, Kadesh and its result, this is only the beginning of Ramesses' story. This is the only the beginning of his reign, and he's still got a lot to do, a lot to learn and a lot to show off. Yes, I think he does think of it as a lesson. I mean, if we can try and get into his head,

but it's a start for 10. It's not the end of the story. And we'll continue that in the next time. episode. Campbell, as always, such a pleasure to have you on the show. Great. Thanks. Well, there you go. There was Dr. Campbell Price talking through the rise of Ramesses the Second, his father and grandfather and Horamheb and the likes before him, how it ultimately paved the way for Ramesses II to take the title of Pharaoh in the early 13th century BC. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Campbell will be back next week to continue the story to explain more

about Ramsey's the second's long, long reign and what followed following his death. You've got sea peoples in there, and you've got quite a bit of chaos, which is going to be really fun to explore. So make sure you come back for our second episode with Campbell next week. In the meantime, thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Ancents. If you enjoyed the episode, if you're enjoying the show,

then please make sure that you are following The Ancients on Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, that really helps us and you'll be doing us a big favour. If you'd also be kind enough to leave us a rating as well, well, we would really appreciate that. Don't forget, you can also sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries with a new release every week. Sign up at historyhit.com slash subscribe. That's all from me. I'll see you in the next episode.