The Ancients - The Sons of Attila the Hun

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

The year is 453 AD. The most feared warlord in Europe - Attila the Hun - lies dead on his wedding night. But what happened next plunged his vast empire into bloody chaos.In this episode of The Ancients, Tristan Hughes is joined by Professor Hyun Jin Kim to uncover the dramatic story of Attila’s heirs and the fall of the Huns. From bitter rivalries between Attila’s sons to the Gothic kings who rose to challenge them, discover how the mighty Hunnic Empire collapsed almost overnight — a saga of ambition, betrayal, and the violent unravelling of one of history’s most feared powers.MOREAttila the Hun: Scourge of GodThe White HunsPresented by Tristan Hughes. Audio editor is Tim Arstall, the producer is Joseph Knight. The senior producer is Anne-Marie Luff.All music courtesy of Epidemic SoundsThe Ancients is a History Hit podcast.Sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe. You can take part in our listener survey here: https://insights.historyhit.com/history-hit-podcast-always-on Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Hulu original series, Murdoch, Death and the Family, dives into secrets, deception, murder, and the fall of a powerful dynasty. Inspired by shocking actual events and drawing from the hit podcast, this series brings the drama to the screen like never before, starring Academy Award winner Patricia Arquette and Jason Clark. Watch the Hulu original series, Murdoch, Death in the Family, now streaming only on Disney Plus. Think You Know Your History? Which 16th century peasant uprising shook Europe to its core? Who declared himself the King of Haiti and fought both French and American revolutionaries? And what does shopping, voting and finding your romantic partner have in common? Find out the answers and more about the three books chosen as finalists for the 2025 Cundell History Prize.

Stay tuned to discover which book will win the $75,000 prize announced on Thursday, October the 30th. Find out more at condilprise.com. Hey guys, I hope you're doing well. I'd expect that most, if not all of you, will have heard of the name Attila the hunt. But what about what followed his death, the demise of this titanic figure? That is what we're covering today. The story of the sons of Attila, the fall of the hunts. Now, I love this topic because I'm pretty obsessed with the stories of what happened after the deaths of titanic figures, warlords from ancient history, the death of Alexander the Great, for instance. And usually the answer, the answer is chaos and turmoil, and the story of what happened after Attila's death is no different. It was fascinating to learn about this, often overshadowed, but extraordinary part of the story of the Huns. I really do hope you enjoy. Our guest is the brilliant returning Professor Hyunjin Kim from the University of Melbourne. Let's go. In 453 AD, one of the titanic figures of late antiquity died of a nosebleed, while having sex with his newest wife on their wedding night.

Or so, the story goes, that man was the so-called scourge of God, the bane of Rome, Attila, ruler of the Hunic Empire. It was Attila, or Attila, who oversaw the zenith of the Huns expansion into Europe as far as the Baltic Sea. He left an empire that was formidable, but also was fragile, the recipe for chaos on an imperial scale. This is the often overlooked story of what happened to the Huns after Attila's death, when his son struggled to retain control and powerful Gothic chieftains challenged their rule. This is the story of the fall of the Huns, of the sons of Attila, with our guest, Professor Xun Jin Kim. Xinjin, it's great to have you back on the podcast. Thank you for inviting me.

You're more than welcome, and this time we've done the White Huns, we've done Etilla the Hun, but now we're exploring what happens in the West following the death of Attila and his sons, because this is another extraordinary part of the Huns story that is overlooked. Indeed, so unfortunately because we are so dependent on a single source, the Gothic historian Jordanes. For those who have not read Jordanes, this seems like a fairy tale that has never been told before. But yes, it is actually a fascinating story,

which I'd love to share with you today. So set the scene first of all. When are we talking with Attila and how prominent were the Huns in Europe at the time of his reign? So at the time of Ashla's death, the Hunic Empire dwarfed in size, the Roman Empire, at its height.

So it's stretched from central Gaul, central France, to the Volga River from Scandinavia to territory south of the Danube River. Therefore, it had basically united much of continental Europe. And Aeschre was, without any doubt, the most powerful ruler, certainly in Europe at the time. And his empire had basically succeeded in unifying all of what the Romans referred to as barbaricum, the land inhabited by anybody who is not a Roman. And so the Huns would assert that Aesela the Han ruled over all of Scythia and Germania, so the territory that is ruled by Germanic tribes and also the Scythian and Sarmatian tribes to the east,

and they also claim that he had subjugated the two Roman empires, so the Western Roman Empire and the Eastern Roman Empire to the payment of tribute. So that is the situation at the time of Atala's death in 453. AD. And what do we know about the power structure of Attila's empire just before he dies? What sort of empire should we be imagining in how it's run? It is a quasi-fudal empire. As I said repeatedly in the past, I really do hesitate to use the word feudal, but that is really the best way to describe it. It is an empire that is hierarchical. It is, of course, presided over by the high king or the emperor, who of course was Ashtha. And then under him, there are a hierarchy of king. And The highest-ranking king is the king of the East, who is Elok, his eldest son and crown prince. And then there is, of course, the Western King, who is Oye Barzius, his uncle, and under those Eastern and Western kings, a series of sub-kings. So that is the structure of the empire, and at the time of Attila's death, what had happened

was that the balance of power had shifted. In the traditional Hunnic Empire of the East, while the Hunts still were in the Central Asia and in Mongolia, the Eastern princes always outranked the Western princes. So political power almost always lay with the Eastern kings, and the Western kings were considered to be their vassals or subordinates, viceroys. But because Aeschela led a coup against the previous emperor of the Huns, Blader his brother, who presided over the East, and because he was dependent upon the troops that he raised from the West, in fact, the Romans even refer to him as the Geppid Hun.

because the Geppets were his main fief. By the time that Asla died, the Western princes were just as powerful as those in the East. And that, of course, would result in the long civil wars that followed Asla's death. First, the usurpation. That's, of course, upset the established Hanuk political order and created many, many disaffected and dissatisfied Hunig Royals. We're just waiting for the opportunity to pounce as soon as Assela was gone. and the fact that the East could no longer overpower the West as easily as it had done before.

Junjin, you also mentioned in passing there, the Gepids. So they're a tribe in, what is today, is it Hungary or Czechoslovakia or that area? Yes, they were originally based in Poland, modern Poland. But then, of course, after they were conquered by the Huns, they were relocate it to what is now Romania and Hungary. Because, of course, Azzler made that area, Eastern Hungary, the center of, of his empire. He moved the Hunnic capital from somewhere in Ukraine to Hungary. And so the Gepids became very, very important. They became literally the geographical center of the Hunic Empire. And that is why Aschler is referred to as a Gapit Hun. So is there a sense that

because Attila was such a strong individual, that he was able to almost contain growing anti-Western lord favoritism, if you know what I mean Attila's preference for lords in the West he was able to contain that but when he dies that resentment particularly from the lords who ruled further east who had been used to that

traditional role where they had more power that resentment does it explode because Attila is no longer there to contain it yes exactly that's exactly what happens so when Ashlett suddenly dies after a wedding ceremony that's a bit worry, I suppose. The Eastern princes decide to elevate to the throne, Elak, the Crown Prince, as was his right,

because he is the king of the East. He was the first in line to the succession, and the Eastern princes represented by the Akadziri Confederation, think that this is a done deal. Elak should succeed as father as emperor or high king. But the Western princes who have been empowered by Aesler refuse to comply. And so, Aldarek, who is the king of the Geppets, now we have to first understand who these people are. According to Jordanes, Alderic, Valamer, and all the other kings that

emerge after the supposed collapse of the Hanuk Empire, according to Jordanes, are Germanic, ethnic, Germanic princes. But if you look carefully at who these people are, they're not ethnically Germanic kings. They are actually Hunnic princes who are. are competing with each other in a succession crisis, who want to elevate their favoured candidate to the throne. So Alderic has a grandson called Mundo, who is also Ashela's grandson. So in other words, Al-Daric was part of the Hunnic royal family. His Dorsha had married one of Atta's sons called Gizmos, and they had a son called Mundo who later becomes king of the Gepids. And so the Gepard royal family and the ruling elite were

very hunnic, and they remain so long after the so-called demise of the Huns. And so Al-Daric presumably wanted to raise to the throne his son-in-law, Gizmos. And so he forms a coalition of Western princes in order to elevate this guy to the throne. And Eastern princes, of course, had their candidate, Ilak, who was the eldest son of Ashtela, and this then led to this colossal battle at Nedao. One year after Ashtla's death, these two were war-infections couldn't sort it out via diplomacy, so they went to war. And before we get to what happens in that war, you mentioned there a figure who seems key to this story, or at least our understanding of this story, which is this figure of Jordane's.

Now, who was he, Junjin, and why is he so important for this story? Yes, Jordani's is an ethnic goth, who Leisha worked for the Eastern Romans. His family became part of the Eastern Roman establishment, and he wrote a history called the Gessica, History of the Goths, and because he is an ethnic goth, he goes out of his way to rewrite history in favor of his Goths. And therein lies the problem. The primary narrative that recounted the history of the dissolution of the Hanuk Empire, Priscus's history, is largely lost. It only survives in fragments. And of course, Jordan has consulted that history, but he rewrought that history and all the other information that he had available to him

so that his goths would appear to be the most preeminent and the greatest tribe ever. And so everybody loses to the Goths in Jordanes' narrative. But what is weird is that the Goths always win, but at the end of it, either their king dies, or they are expelled entirely from the territory that they ruled over and have to take refuge in Roman territory in Macedonia and in Italy. So whatever Jordanes says, you have to take with a heavy grain of salt. because he rewrites history in ways that it's difficult to fathom. Giordanez is writing 100 years after the events that he purports to describe.

And so he's dependent on earlier sources, and some of those sources survive in fragments. So when we compare those sources with Jordanez, then we get closer to the truth. I must ask another question before we continue with this Civil War narrative, which is, you did also mention the death of the tiller. And it always seems quite an interesting one, the actual death of the tiller. You mentioned it was at a party or too much drink. I mean, how did he die? Is it a blood clot or something like that? Yes, he had a nosebleed. So he had too much wine. He was drunk and he had a new wife. So he over-exerted himself. Well, this is according to Priscus, right? This is according to Pris. These are according to the Romans who engaged in malicious gossip.

But supposedly he was drunk and he had a nosebleed and it suffocated him. and he died in this very inglorious fashion. So the greatest king on the continent died of a nosebleed that clogged his throat. He choked on his own blood. That's what Priscus tells us. And this was divine intervention, right? Because Aeschelah was about to reinvade the Eastern Roman Empire, which had refused to pay tribute. And so the Roman emperor was very concerned that this invasion was about to happen.

And then he saw a dream, said by God, in it the honeyc bow was broken. And this was a sign from heaven telling the pious emperor that God would smite the Huns himself. And so it was not the power of Roman arms, but divine retribution that felled Atala and destroyed the Huns. That is the sort of the narrative that Priscus constructs and that is the light of thought that he is pushing. And do we have any idea what Atala thought about his eldest son, Elak or Elak? Is there any information that survives about that? Yes. Actually, Priscus, who was a Roman ambassador and who had visited the court of Aesla and had actually

met Aesela himself, tells us that Ashthah was very, very distant towards all of his other sons and treated them as if they were garbage. Now, whether we should believe that or not was a different question. But he says that his shamans, Aesla's shamans, had told Aesla that his race would fall after his death, but would be completely revived by Ernak. the youngest of his sons. And so Priscus noticed how Ashter treated Ernak with the greatest amount of attention, but he would ignore all of his other sons. And that, according to Priscus, was because of this prophecy that Ernak would revive Assela's dynasty after his other

incompetent sons would presumably ruin it. Including Elak, his eldest son, which is quite something who is the successor. Now, of course we cannot believe this story, because Priscus had the benefit of hindsight. He knew that eventually the final victor to merge from the civil wars, the guy who would end up being the last man standing was Ernak. He has the benefit of hindsight and he's therefore creating this narrative to make it seem as though Ashtela had always favoured Ernak, does probably, it's just wishful thinking. Well, let's go back to the story in regards to after Attila's death. So we've already highlighted, you know, this civil war that breaks out the Western kings and the Gepids, led by the figure of Arderick.

And then on the other side, you have Atila's successor, his eldest son, Elak, and the Akatsiri in the east. And then finally, it's only a couple of years after Atler's death. These two sides come to blows. What do we know, Hingin? What do we know about this civil war in the campaign? Yes, we know very little about the battle itself, because Chordana has completely messes up the narrative. His focus is solely on the Goths, so he doesn't really care that much about what else is happening. And his main purpose is to create a narrative in which his goths are extricated from Hunnic rule as soon as possible. So he claims that during this battle, the Austro Goths, the Eastern Goths, under their king Valamer, was fighting on the side

of Ardoric. So together with the Geppids, they defeated the Huns and killed the Hunic crowned Prince Elok, and that was the end of it. The Goths were finally liberated. And then Elok's younger brother, Denguzyk, another of Atulist's sons, about a year later, decided to reclaim his slaves, the Goths, right? So he supposedly invaded Gothic territory, and Valemu, without any aid from his other brothers, managed to defeat him and sent him packing. And that was the great liberation of the Gothic people. When Valimer defeated Denghisich, Theodoric the Great, the later great Gothic King of Isity was born to Thudamer, who is the younger brother of Valimer. So the liberation of the Goths coincided with the birth of the greatest of all Gothic kings,

Theodoric de Great. So he creates this very neat narrative, which seems to suggest that the Goths extricated themselves from Honeygrew in about 455 or 456 AD. But all evidence would point in the opposite direction, because Jordanis himself lets slip a piece of information that is very puzzling. He says that an earlier gothic king called Thorismud was killed while fighting the Gepids. Ah, okay. And later medieval Germanic tradition has the Goths fighting for Ilaq at the Battle of Naderho,

not on the other side. And so what is going on? Well, in order to make sense of what is happening, we have to understand the person of Valemar, this king of the Austro-Goths that supposedly led the Goths at the Battle of Nedo. Now, at the Battle of Nedo, Valamur was not yet the ruler of the Goths.

Jordana says that there was a king called Balamber in the middle of the 4th century. And he claims that this king was a Hun king, it was a honey king, and he was the one who subdued the Goths in the middle of the 4th century. And then he talks about Valomer in the middle of the 5th century,

and claims that this is an entirely Gothic king descending from the original Austrogothic kings who ruled prior to the Honey Conquest. But via a very rigorous analysis of the sources, Peter Heather has been able to determine that Balamber and Valamer are one and the same. They are the same fifth century, mid-fifth century individual. In other words, Jordanis has created a phantom Honey King in the middle of the fourth century in order to make his Gothic dynasty, the Amal dynasty, Gothic and not Hanek. So since Balamber and Valemar are the same person, what does that mean?

That means that Valemar, who lived in the middle of the 5th century, was not a Gothic king. He was a Hunnic king who was ruling over the Goths. And so in order to obfuscate that reality, Jordanis separates that single king, and makes him into a Honey King who supposedly lived in the middle of the 4th century and the Gothic king who supposedly lived in the middle of the 5th century. And the reason why we know this to be the case is because Balimber kills a guy called Vinetarius. That name means literally Wendipater or Slav fighter. Now, we know for a fact that there were no Slavs in southern Ukraine or Romania

where the Goths were situated at the time in the middle of the fourth century. The introduction of the Slavs into this region was something that happened after the middle of the 5th century. So if Vinetarius, this wend-fighting king, Slav-fighting king, was killed by Balamber, that could not have happened in the middle of the 4th century. It had to happen in the middle of the 5th century. Strangely enough, Jordanes claims that this Vinetarius was the grandfather, the paternal grandfather of Valimer. But we've just told you that Ballamber killed Vinutarius. So how could Balamur be the grandson of the person that he's murdered or killed in battle?

Well, it's because Valimer married the granddaughter of Vinetarius. So after he defeated Vinictharius, he married a princess called Vadamirka. And so Vinetarius was the Gothic grandfather-in-law of Volimer and not his bettimore. or grandfather. And we know this to be the case because there is Amal family tree or, you know, sort of dynastic king list that predates the list given by Jordanes. And in that earlier list, Vinetarius and a lot of Bruns, who is his father, is totally missing. So in other words, he just inserted these Gothic kings into the ancestry in order to make these honey kings appear gothic. So he does this sort of thing all over the place. And fortunately, we do have other

sources that we can sort of, with which we can cross-examine Jordanians' account and, you know, figure out what on earth he's trying to do. So, you know, that's basically what's happening. I'm Matt Lewis. I'm Holly Mielsen, and we're the hosts of Echoes of History, the podcast that goes behind the scenes of the iconic game series Assassin's Creed. We're on a mission to uncover just how the game creators recreate all of the most nail-biting pivotal moments in history from the bloody aides of March...

To the rise and fall of a pirate republic. So grab your hidden Assassin's Blade and Blueprint. And join us every week on Echoes of History a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hits. Shinjin, I think your explanation there highlights just how confusing Drodanos makes it to try and sort out what the head is happening with the Hanuk Empire and these kingdoms in the West in these years following Attila's death. So if the bare bones is,

Elak is defeated and killed at the Battle of Nedeo. And so after that point, the official Hunnic Empire at that time, does it recede and do get people like Valemur and Arderick, although they still have links to the Huns, do they also consider themselves independent kings and the actual size of the Hunnic Empire has decreased? That is the thing, right?

So that is what Jordanis wants us to think. It completely broke up after this bashal, and everybody is independent. But notice how Valemar is called the King of the Huns. None of theseonic princes actually thought that the Hanuk Empire dissolved, and all of them were trying to put it back together. So the civil war continues, and in fact, Valimer remains affiliated with the sons of Ashela until at least the early 460s, when he concludes an alliance with Eastern Romans and aims for the Hanuk throne himself.

That is why he is called the King of the Huns, when in fact the only sort of group that he ruled over were probably some Goths and some Saramations. He makes his bid for the throne in the 260s when he feels that he's powerful enough. And he seems to have succeeded in uniting much of the Western territories of the Hanuk Empire. And that then invites the attention of Denghisic.

So Jordanis says that Denghisich was defeated by Valemir in roughly about 455 AD. But in fact, Roman sources tell us that this encounter between the Huns and the Goths of Valemar actually happened in the middle of the 460s. So 10 years later, 10 years later. So in other words, Drodonais, in the same way that he created two kings out of one person, has created two battles out of one battle, which took place in the middle of the 460s, just so that he is able to extricate.

the Goths from Hunnic rule as early as possible and to make the ruling dynasty of the Goths a native Gothic dynasty and not a Hanuk dynasty. And so that's sort of the eastern half of the Hanuk Empire at the time is unable to try to reimpose its rule over the West, largely because they're dealing with an invasion from the east. And so during this time, we mentioned this in the podcast on the Weishan. What is happening is that the Kitterites are being overrun by the invasion of the Avars coming from the east, and the Avars not only displaced the Kitterites in Central Asia,

they also destroy the weak huns, the so-called Yueban huns in Kazakhstan. And as a result of the dissolution of these two hunnic states, various military detachments that derive from those two states pour into southern Russia and the Ukraine, and Ernak in particular, the youngest son of Ashtha, is stuck fighting against them in the east and is unable to, of course, retake his Western territories. So in that power vacuum, a war erupts between Valimer and Denghisic over who should claim the title of the king of the Western half of the The Haredic Empire? So just to clarify, I'm getting my head around this now, it's very interesting to hear.

So, Elak is defeated in the battle by Ardurik and his allies. But at that time, he said the Honok Empire doesn't really recede after that. You just have the new kings, the other sons of Attila, so Ernak in the east, and then Dengizik in the west. And at that time, Valema still seems to be loyal to those two sons of Attila. And he is reigning in Ukraine-Hungary area. He's a sub-king in that area, do we think? Valemar is ruling over what is now much of Hungary, Croatia, Bosnia, that area, northern Serbia, so that area.

So that is his core territory. And Denghisik is ruling over regions we should probably associate with Western Ukraine, Belarus, that area. There is anotheronic prince, Edeco, who rules over the Skiri. So basically much of Romania or the eastern half of Romania, all the eastern half of Romania. all these Hunnic princes are jostling for power. Aldarek, who was the great victor at Netto, he disappears from the picture shortly after the battle.

So he presumably died. He must have been an old man by the time of the battle in any case. So he disappears from the picture. And so Valimer takes his place. And the gap has become very, very insignificant, very quickly for about 10 years. So Valimer is the more powerful prince in the West. And he himself descends from, most likely from Ulden, So Uldin is one of the earlier honey kings, and according to Jordanians himself, the ancestor of Valimer is a certain walt-wolf.

So Wolt-Wolf is Wolt the wolf. So if you take off the Germanic suffix, wolf, walt, of course, is Woldin. Because Uldin, if you look at his name, the I-N is the Greek suffix, so you have to remove the I-N, and so his name is Wolt. So Valamer probably descends from Uldin. he belongs to a cadet line of honey kings who have not been able to sort of establish their authority over the whole empire. They're just ruling his sub-kings. But in this confusion, when Attila's sons are all fighting against each other, he makes

his bid for the throne. And so he declares himself king of the Huns, not king of the Goths or king of the Sarmatians. He says, I'm the king of the Huns. And then he tries to conquer the Swabee in what is now Germany. and the Skiri, who, of course, are in Romania. And the Swaby in Germany are ruled by another honey prince called Hunymund. His name literally means subservient to the Huns, or in the service of the Huns. In other words, a vassal honking.

And so Honeymund and Edeco of the Skiri, they try to sort of reach out to anybody who could support them against Valimer. Edeco appeals to the Eastern Romans for support, and the Eastern Roman Emperor Leo decides to support the Skiri. but then Aspar, who is the Generalissimo, says, no, no, no, we are not getting involved. And so no real Roman support comes. And so the Skiri and the Swaybi then turned to Denguzyk, who is the strongest of the honey princes in the West. And he then, of course, arrives, joins forces with the Skiri. And Jordanez tells us that in this battle against the Skiri, Valama was killed. But according to Jordanez, despite the death of the king, the goths,

fought heroically, vanquished the Skiri, and emerged victorious. But so the Roman sources tell us, right after the death of Valemir, Denghisic is now ruling the Goths. So Denguzyk, after he's conquered Valemus' Goths, decides to invade the Eastern Roman Empire. He thinks that now that he's reunited the Western half of the Hunic Empire under himself, that he's owed the tribute that the Eastern Romans had been paying to his father, Ashida. So he gathers his forces and demands that the Eastern Romans capitulate. And he asks his brother, Ernak, who is his superior in the east.

So the imperial throne belongs to Ernak in the east. That is clear, because Denggizuk pays deference to him. So Ernak is the high king. Denggishuk is his viceroy in the West. And so Denghisuk asks Ernak if he can attack the Romans. And Ernak tells him, no, you can't. Because I'm busy finishing off these other enemies in the East, let's wait.

He's still finishing off the Avars in the East, is it those people? Oh, not the Avars, but the various sort of fragments of other Hunnic states in the East that have broken off and are invading his territory. And that's in Kazakhstan, Southern Russia area. Yes, Kazakhstan, Southern Russia, mainly Southern Russia. And he successfully integrates all of these Oghurs. The main group is the Saragores, the Bittagores, Onagores, et cetera. These are not tribes.

O-Gor actually means military division. division. And the Saragores mean the yellow division or the royal division. So that is the most formidable sort of enemy that Sir Ernak has to deal with and he successfully defeats them. So he manages to unite all the sort of the newcomers and his own people into one group. And this new sort of imperial state that Ernak founds in Eastern Europe is called Great Bulgaria. And the people are called Bulgar Huns. A bulgar in Ogurik Turkic means to stir or to mix.

So these are the mixed people. And so Ernak is busy with Vash in the East. And so he tells Denghisik that he should cut it and not mess with the Romans. But Denggijik proceeds anyway. That leads to some mysterious circumstances. It's interesting up to that point because it feels like if we can presume

that these events happened in the 460s, so a decade after Elak's death, that, you know, for a short period of time, the Ernak-Dengizik partnership, you know, restores Hanuk power. They've dealt with the troublemaker Valema in the West, or Denghisik has. Ernak seems to be gaining success now finally in the Kazakhstan area. And Denghishe, you know, he wants to fight the Romans, but it seems like the defeat of Elak and the issues there was only a blip. And the Hanuk Empire is restoring to its old power. But then what happens?

So after 10 years of mayhem, the Hanuk Empire has been put together again or stitched together again, but still unstable, especially in the West. In the East, it is much more stable and will remain so thereafter. But in the West, it is very unstable. And so Denghishe probably should have consolidated his new conquests before embarking on this full-hearted war against the Eastern Romans. But he does so anyway. So in 467 AD, he launches his invasion of the Roman empire. And the Romans resort to subterfuge. So what they do is they send into the Hunnic camp a spy called Cholkhal. He's a hun who is working for the Romans. And so he visits the Goths, who are now back under the rule of the Eastern Huns. He reminds the Goths of all the indignities that they had suffered under Hunnic rule, all the taxes they had to pay, all the injustices that they had to endure under Hunic rule. And this really riles up the Goths. According to Priscus, they then rebel. And so instead of fighting the Romans, what happens is a gigantic fiasco.

The Goths within Denggijik's army attacked the hans, and they end up fighting each other, and the entire expedition ends in a complete disaster. The Bittugors, these are eastern newcomers who were probably supplied to Denggijik by Ernak earlier when Denggizik was fighting against Falamer. So these are newcomers as well, and they are not completely loyal to the Atalists. They also seem to have rebelled along with the Goths. So later in Austro-Gothic Italy, the Bitagores become a part of the Austro-Gothic kingdom, and they become one of the leading sort of groups that make up the Austro-Gothic nobility. So both groups rebel, and so Denghisch's

short-lived unification of the West falls apart almost immediately. And then in roughly 469 AD, he is murdered. And so that is the end of that. Urnach does push back. Yes, what happens to Ernak? Oh, well, so Ernak then, of course, finally decides that he needs to deal with the West. And so he sends his armies into what is now Romania and Bulgaria and take over those regions. And the Romans recognize Ernak's rule over the form of Roman province of Scythia. What happens is that Thudemur, this is the younger brother of Valimer, retakes the kingship of the Goth. So they've broken away from the Eastern Huns again.

and Thudemir tries to recover the territories that Valemur had ruled previously. And so he wages war against the Rugi, the Swabee and the Gapids, and he makes too many enemies all at once. And so all these groups unite against him. And at the Battle of Bolia, according to Jordanez, the Goths vanquished everybody. And they were bored with beating just about everybody repeatedly, and they thought we have to take on a bigger challenge. And so they decide to bolt into Roman territory.

And so they abandon all of their territories in Central Europe, and former Gothic territories are then divided by the people that supposedly the Goths had defeated in battle. And Thudemur ends up in Macedonia, and his younger brother, Vedemer, another brother, ends up in Italy. And so the Goths are scattered to the winds, and Theodoric, who had been a hostage in Constantinople until then, finally rejoins the Goths and goes to Macedonia with his presumed father Thudemar. There's a little bit of uncertainty as to whether Theodoric is Valimer's son or Thudemar's son. According to Jordanes, Theodoric was the son of Thedurik by a concubine. But then the person who sent Theodoric to Constantinople as a hostage was not Thudemar but Valemar.

So I think what actually was happening was, Theodoric was probably an illegitimate son of Valimer, and that's why he could serve as a hostage at the court in Constantinople. But then after Valimer died, in accordance with Hanuk custom, his wives would have been passed on to his brother by a system that is very similar to the Leverish and the sort of Hebrew context. So when a brother dies in Hanuk society, the other brothers, the next brother, then inherits the former wives and concubines of her. his brother. And so Jordanes, who wants to make Theodoric appear as a Christian king, must have thought that this was very shameful. And so instead of having Theodemur as his, as Theodoric's a stepfather, he might have just said how Thudemar was his legitimate father. That's just a guess, though. That's what I think happened. But anyhow, so Thudemar ends up in Macedonia, Videmir with his

Goths end up in Italy. The territory, former Western Hunic territory, is then divided among a few very powerful Hanuk princes, the king of the Gepids, the king of the Swabee, the king of the rogu, and those three basically rule over much of the core Hanuk territories in the West. And Onak, who finally sort of makes this move, displaces the Skiri, who are led by another Hunuk prince called Edeco, who was responsible for killing Valimer earlier. This group are scashed, just like the Goths, and they end up in the Roman Empire. So Etyko's eldest son, Hunulf, the Hun Wolf, ends up in Constantinople, and he joins his relatives who are already there, a certain Armatius, who is either his brother or a cousin,

and another relative called Basiliscus, who Leisha becomes Eastern Roman emperor for just about a year before being overthrown by the Emperor Zeno, who is an Izorian. So a lot of these Huns are sort of all over the place, and people related to them are all over the place, and even in the Roman Empire, they were occupying high positions in the military. Ever wondered what it was like to plot the assassination of Julius Caesar? To stage the Boston Tea Party? Or to orchestrate Blackbeard's final stand on the high seas? I'm Matt Lewis. I'm Holly Mielsen. And we're the hosts of Echoes of History,

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a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hits. If we go back to Ernak, as we're kind of focusing on the sons of Atala, is he now the only one still standing? And for how much longer is he able to be the ruler of what is, of what remains the official Hunnic Empire? Yes, so Ernak is able to hold on for quite some time, and he is listed as a very important ancestor in the Bougar prince list. So, Leisha, the Bulgarians in the 7th century and the 8th century, managed to occupy or re-establish the Bulgarian state in the Balkans and found the first Bulgarian empire in the

Balkans. In their prince list, we see Ernak as the first significant ancestor after Ashtha, and according to Manander Protector, a Eastern Roman historian. Menander doesn't mention Ernak, but he says the great ancestor of these Huns divided his realm between his two sons, one presided over the Utigurs, and the other presided over the Kutrigors. So the Utigurs are the Eastern Division, which is much more powerful and has as many as forces military divisions. The Kutrigors are the weaker Western Division in Western Ukraine and Romania.

They have fewer military divisions, but they reconstitute the Hanuk Empire in Europe, but in a reduced form. So instead of ruling over all of Eastern Europe and Central Europe, they now only rule over Eastern Europe. And in the typical Hanuk fashion, they again divide their empire into two halves, with the descendants of Onak ruling over both of them. But then in the middle of the 6th century, the Bulgar states enter into civil war. and while they're busy fighting each other, the avars or the pseudo-Avars turned up, just 20,000 of them, and they take over as the new ruling dynasty.

But they don't displace the assailants entirely. They sort of allow them to rule over their peoples as vassals. And once the avars weaken in the beginning of the 7th century AD, then these Bulgarars again separate themselves from the avars and re-establish old Great Bulgaria, or old Bulgaria in Ukraine, under a king called Kubrat. And then he has five sons, and those five sons are defeated by the Khazars, who are the Turks, who sort of are pushed further west.

And so one brother, Kotrag, goes north and founds Volga Bulgaria in what is now sort of central Russia. A younger brother called Asparu, goes south and establishes Danubian Bulgaria, another son of Kubrat called Kuber, conquers Macedonia and establishes another Bulgaria there. Al-Chek ends up in Italy, and Bhat Bayan, who is the eldest, submits to the Khazars and becomes their vessel. So the five brothers go their separate ways, founds Bulgaria's all over the place, and then they integrate with the locals, and gradually the Hanukai's entity then dissolves. And then we've got only one Bulgaria surviving today, which is the country Bulgaria. But it's interesting to think that the country, Bulgaria, the name originates from the Hanuk language, I guess, and what the Huns did and Attila's sons did. Yes, definitely, definitely.

And one other interesting sort of side note is that Etico, that Skirian Hunnic Prince, who fought against Valimer, he had another even more famous son than Hunov. That, of course, is Otto Wacker. And Otto Wacker, of course, is the guy who ended the Western Roman Empire. So he is expelled from Central Europe as well, and with his Torky Lingy, the name of the tribe that he rules over is interesting, because the Ling is a Germanic suffix by Turkey, of course, refers to the Huns. And so he leads this group into Italy, and then he installs as sort of puppet Roman emperor, Romulus Augustulus, who is the son of Orestes, who incidentally was the secretary of Attila the Hun. And when Edeco went on this embassy to Constantinople at Eterla's command, he took with them Orestes on that trip. So both of them had gone to Constantinople that had met Priscus before the death of Attila. And so Priscus tells us a lot about Edeco and Orestes. And lo and

behold, several decades later, the son of Edeco, Odo Acker, commands a honey army in Italy, or a motley sort of collection of Hunsian German tribes in Italy. And he installs as the last Western Roman emperor, Romulus Augustulus, who is the son of that very same Orestes, the secretary of Attila the Han. Does he install him, Hingin? I thought he deposes him, but Orestes installs Romulus Augustus. Oh, no. So Orestes makes a deal with Orohacker.

And he installs his son, Romulus Augustus, as emperor. But then Orohacker decides that I'm drawing. dropping this farce. And so he kills Orestes, deposes Romulus Augustulus, and then sends the imperial regalia to Constantinople, telling the Eastern Romans that the empire does not need two emperors. I'll run the show here as a virtually independent king in Italy. And you can be emperor all by yourself. And so that's how former Hunnic princeling took over Italy and established the first barbarian kingdom of Italy. And then, of course, Theodoric, who is another Hunnic princeling, ruling over the Ostrogos, comes over and kills Oroacker and takes over and creates the Austro-Gothic kingdom of Italy. And once again, all of those figures have links to the Huns and how the story of the Huns lives on. And thinking of the sons, of course, Elak dies early on, Denghisik, then following him. Do we have any idea what happens to Ernak? Obviously, if he has his sons and

his line continues, so the line of Attila does continue, do we think he dies of old age, or do just not have that information? We don't have that information, but I think we can be pretty certain that he died of old age because his sons were able to succeed him without any great disturbances. There was no record of any civil wars between the Utigurs and Kutrigurs until basically the last decade of their existence in the middle of the 6th century. So for the next 50 or 60 years, the Bulgarans remain united. I will just ask one to wrap it all up, though.

So Xunjin, how much can we call it a fall with the Hunnic Empire after Attila, the deaths of two of his sons, the chaos that follows, but then ultimately the stability brought with Ernak and the post-Roman kingdoms that have links to the Huns with figures like Otto Acker and Theoderic and so on. How far can we argue that the Hanuk empire does fall after Attila's death? Well, it fell in the sense that the United Empire, that vast empire that stretched from central goal to the Volga River, that no longer exists. The western half of the empire definitely dissolved into its constituent parts. And that interestingly mirrors the situation in the Western Roman Empire, which also dissolved. But the East survived, just as the Eastern Roman Empire survived and hung on for a long, long time thereafter. And so we often talk about the fall of the Roman Empire in 476 AD. But that, of course, is not accurate. We're talking about the fall of

the western half of the Roman Empire. The rest of it, the eastern half, survived another thousand years. In the same way, I think, if we were to talk about the collapse of the Hanuk Empire, yes, in the West, definitely. It happened after 20 years of complete mayhem and civil wars and unsuccessful attempts by Hanuk princes to bring everything back together again. But in the the East Hanik stage or its successor stage, the Bulgaria, the Bulgarians, managed to hang on for a long time thereafter. And after a sort of an Avar blip in the middle, they again sort of reasserted themselves, and their successor states lasted for a long, long time, right up to the 11th century

AD. So not as long as the Romans, but they did sort of hang on for quite some time. Hingin, this has been absolutely fascinating, shining a light on this chaotic period. All of these names and all of these are trying to sort fact from fiction from a figure like Jordane's. You've done a fantastic job dubbing through all of that. People can read all about it and so much more in your book, which covers this and the whole story of the Huns, it is called? The Huns, Rome and the Birth of Europe are by Cambridge University Press. And is there also one just called The Huns?

Yes, there is another book called The Huns, which is an easier read, which probably should be more recommended. because it is easier for the general public to approach. I say that because I'm actually holding it in my hand right now, and it was a great source of information for our chat today, so I wanted to make sure you mentioned that. Xinjin, you've been fantastic. It just goes to me to say thank you so much for coming back on the podcast. It's a pleasure.

Thank you for having me. Well, there you go. There was Professor Xinjin Kim returning to the show to talk through the story of what happened after the death of Attila and the fall of the Hunnic Empire. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Thank you for listening. Please follow The Ancients on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. That really helps us and you'll be doing us a big favour.

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