The Ancients - Ukraine's Ancient Greek City

Episode Date: October 30, 2022

Located in modern day Ukraine, Olbia was the largest ancient Greek settlement on the coast of the Black Sea. A mix of Scythian and Greek culture, Olbia interacted with settlements and cultures across the ancient world. In this episode, Tristan is joined by Dr Owen Rees to talk about the fascinating and wonderful history of this peripheral city state - that despite all odds, managed not only to survive, but ultimately thrive.For more Ancients content, subscribe to our Ancients newsletter here. If you'd like to learn even more, we have hundreds of history documentaries, ad free podcasts and audiobooks at History Hit - enter promo code ANCIENTS for a free trial, plus 50% off your first three months' subscription.To download, go to Android > or Apple store >

Hi, I'm Tristan Hughes, and if you would like the Ancient ad-free, get early access and bonus episodes, sign up to History Hit. With a History Hit subscription, you can also watch hundreds of hours of original documentaries, including my recent documentary all about Petra and the Nabataeans, and enjoy a new release every week. Sign up now by visiting historyhit.com slash subscribe. It's the Ancients on History Hit. I'm Tristan Hughes, your host, and in today's podcast, well, I'm particularly excited about this episode today because this is a topic that I've been wanting to do for some time now. I've been fascinated for years about these places, these city-states, these locations that were on the periphery of the Greek world in antiquity. Whether it's incredible city-states like Cyrene in North Africa in modern-day Cyrenaica or ancient Massalia, modern-day Marseille, Greek city-states in Spain too and also in the Black Sea.

And one of the most extraordinary Greek hybrid city-states that you get emerging on the coastline of the Black Sea in the first millennium BC is this city called Olbia. Today the archaeological remains of Olbia are situated very close to what is modern-day Odessa so it's not too far away from the front lines currently of the Russian-Ukraine war. But Olbia has a rich and incredible history and I wanted to share it with you today. I wanted to talk about Olbia. It's been a long time coming. Unfortunately we've got a great expert to tell you through the story of this ancient city today because when I headed up to Manchester a few weeks ago you'll recall that I did chat to Dr Owen Rees and we talked all about the March of the 10,000. Now when we released that

podcast I hinted that we had recorded a second separate episode with Owen and this is it because Owen is also an expert on these peripheral parts of the ancient Greek world. And so enjoy as in this episode today we talk, we have great fun talking about the ancient history of Olbia Ukraine's ancient Greek city so without further ado to talk all about Olbia here's Owen. Owen great to have you back on the podcast amigo thanks very much for having me back I really appreciate it I always enjoy my time with you you're very welcome indeed we've had you on for dogs we've had you on for combat trauma and now we have got you back on for something a bit different.

Olbia, this great ancient city in the Black Sea, on the coast of the Black Sea. Was this one of the great jewels in antiquity of this part of the ancient world? I think to call it a jewel is probably a stretch, but it's certainly a place where, for historians in particular, Olbia offers us something that conventional Greek history, the kind of Greek history you're used to reading from some of the great writers of modern historical works, they don't touch on because it's away from the core of Greek civilization. It's away from that kind of central element of Athens, Sparta, even like the Ionian coast, Miletus and so on. Olbia is a real outlier. Like you say, it's the North Black Sea.

We're talking northwest of the Crimea, that kind of Crimean region that is very much in the news at the moment. So miles away from the centre of Greek civilisation, and as a result, they kind of do things a little bit differently. They're still Greek, they still, you know, talk Greek, they still do things in a very Greek way, things that we find very familiar. But they don't kind of live by all the stereotypes that we're used to seeing with the Greeks in Sparta, in Athens, in Thebes, places like that. And as a result, as historians, it's an amazing place where we can see what other Greeks are up to.

A lot of Greek history is filled with the idea of colonisation, setting up colonies all over the Mediterranean. And then we just kind of leave that story there and we go back to the places who sent out those colonisers. And Olbia is exactly one of those. So it was set up by colonisers from Miletus, which is on the Ionian coast in Asia Minor, modern Turkey. And they set up this trading post, basically. But it's a trading post that then becomes a city that survives, I mean, sort of

sixth century through to the first century common era. So sort of 700, six, 700 year history of surviving, thriving, struggling, and everything in between. That's the beauty of Olbia in the history of the Greek world, but also the Mediterranean world and the ancient world more generally. And it's a great example from what you were saying there, like perhaps, say, Massalia, Marseille in the west, or these Greek city-states on the eastern coast of Spain. This is a great example of looking at a Greek colony, as on one of these peripheries of the Greek world, and then seeing how they survive, thrive,

how they interact with these other cultures knocking on their doorstep, and how they differ from places more central to the Greek world. Yeah, yeah, it's precisely that. And the other word that you could add to that is adapt. So the story of Olbia, the story of Massalia, the story of Naucatus in Egypt, these are stories of adaptation. This is what I mean when I say, you know, they're Greeks, but they don't quite look the same as other Greeks. That's because they've adapted. say, you know, they're Greeks, but they don't quite look the same as other Greeks. That's because they've adapted. So you talk about the other cultures, you know, when we look at the writings of, you know, Plato, Aristotle, people in Athens, people in mainland Greece, we get this real set,

Herodotus, for instance, we get this real sense of there's Greeks and there are barbarians, separate, and they're almost like natural enemies. Some of our Greek sources even talk about that, there was a natural aggression and hatred between each other, and there's nothing anyone could do about that. War is inevitable at all times. Olbia disrupts that image entirely, because you can hate foreigners or foreign people or what you consider barbarian,

when the only ones you really interact with are either in war or enslaved. In Olbia, that's not the case. These are your neighbours. These are the people that you're your neighbours, these are the people that you're seeing day to day, the people you're trading with day to day. So Olbia in the Black Sea we are of course in what's kind of commonly thought of as Scythian country. Now this is quite important because Scythians are this sort of amalgamation of numerous different cultures

who have certain things in common, sort of semi-nomadic. They have a specific type of art that they all kind of share, what's called the animalistic style. And the Greeks are kind of obsessed with them because they're the opposite to the Greeks. You know, they don't seem to live in cities. Women seem to have, like, rights. They fight in a mobile manner. Archery is treasured over spears andars and you know everything the Greeks hold dear. So the Scythians are almost like the antithesis of Greek culture and that's how they talk about them. So these are the neighbours of the Albians. But also the location of where they are, so on the land of Scythia. Scythia is literally the edge of the Greek world. So beyond Scythia

there is almost nothing. Early sort of geographers envisage the ancient world. So beyond Scythia, there is almost nothing. Early geographers envisage the ancient world being surrounded by an ocean. So beyond Scythia, in theory, is that ocean. So this is the kind of perspective the Greeks coming from. So beyond the Scythians, it gets kind of mythical. We also have tales of the Androphagoi, so the man-eaters, the cannibals. And then after, if you survive that and you continue moving northeast, you will meet the gold hoarding griffins. So, you know, this is a land of myth and reality blending together. And the Olbians live in it. So even though they are Greek, the Greeks themselves see this really edge of the world stuff. There'll be dragons beyond this.

That's the kind of perspective the Greek world has. So when therefore looking at Olbia, from what you're saying there, we have literature surviving to talk about this ancient city-state, or city, you can correct me what it is. It becomes a city-state. There we go, we'll get to that in time. But so what is the amount of sources that we have? Is there literature, but is there also a lot of archaeology too? It is predominantly archaeological. There is no surviving literature that comes from Olbia itself. There's no surviving work by Olbian writers. We do know of Olbian intellectuals, okay, but none of their work necessarily survives today. We do hear of, for instance,

there's a philosopher, Bayon, who you may well have come across in your work, Tristan. He's a philosopher, but he's also kind of, so he comes from Orbia, he creates a reputation for himself in mainland Greece and beyond, where he's cynical, almost to the point of satire, and he's renowned for his wit. And he actually becomes like the court philosopher of Antigonus II, King of Macedon. And it's said that he may well have influenced the likes of Horace and Roman satire. This is kind of one of the people they would have drawn upon. His approach, his way of satirising events around him, people around him, things like that. He's a really interesting fellow.

He's also one of the few examples we have of the ancient world who dabbles with atheism. He's said to become an atheist, but then becomes gravely ill and quickly abandons his atheism, which I just think is a lovely touching human story. But again, Olbia has other stories attached to it. You know, we hear of Scythian philosopher Alakazes who is said to have critiqued Solon himself, the great sage of Athens, the great lawgiver of Athens, while Solon was trying to create laws to govern Athens. This Scythian upstart from Roundolbia basically points out to him that his laws are a bit like a spider's web. They will control and bind the poor and the weak, but of course the rich and the powerful will just break free of it. So your laws are great, but they're not going to create equality. And there was something very timeless

about that. You know, laws are needed, laws are necessary, but from the earliest point of these kind of discussions, it's been critiqued because the rich will always find a way out of it. So this is kind of, you know, you can kind of piece these stories together. You know, we get this idea from Olbia, you know, outsiders coming in, critiquing mainland Greek philosophies, mainland Greek ideas with a wit and intelligence and also almost like an otherness. But going in terms of our source material, yeah you are right, it is predominantly archaeological and epigraphical. So we do have inscriptions as well which kind of gives us an idea of especially Hellenistic statecraft in Olbia. So do we know why Olbia is founded? Is it mainly for commerce, or is there an adventurous or an exile story behind it? Why is Olbia founded?

Olbia is founded exactly for the first reason you said. It is entirely set up as an emporium. So this is a market town. What's interesting about that is, of course, who are they trading with? If you're going to set up in the North Black Sea, there's two reasons you do that. One is to capitalise on the growing trade in the Black Sea itself, with all the other colonies growing around from other Greek city-states, as well as non-Greek states as well. But of course, the other reason is Scythia. So you have the Scythians to the north, who are a large populous nation. No one knows how large they were, trading in furs, trading in humans, trading in metal, trading in artwork and crafts and all these multitude of

things. And Olbia and its original market town it was born from, which is a tiny little place called Berezan, they then moved to Olbia, is set up to hit that market, which is why it locates itself on the river Bug and near the river Dnieper. So major rivers going north into Scythian land. The reason why that's quite interesting is because we do know that the Scythians, for all their reputation as nomads, do build market towns or at least use market towns from other local tribal groups. The most classic example is the massive fort at Bilsk, which is sort of northern Ukraine. And I say it's massive, it's twice the size of ancient Rome,

five times the size of Babylon. It's enormous. So not what we think about when we think about nomadic Scythians on horseback. But it's off one of the tributaries that you can get to via the Dnieper. So Olbia has this ability to not only trade locally, but trade deep into Scythian land. And if it can get somewhere like Bilsk, where we do have evidence of Greek artefacts, we also have evidence of Egyptian artefacts. That gives you an idea of just how interconnected the Mediterranean

and the Black Sea are. That's all coming through Olbia. Olbia is the main town going north. So this is what it's capitalising on. This is where Olbia is becoming affluent. This is where it's making its money. So this is kind of like, so as a comparison, Cyrene on the coast of Libya is kind of that spy station between traders going to the inland Africa and to the Greek Mediterranean world. Olbia, that same kind of thing, but in the north, linking that Mediterranean world to the inland of Scythia and beyond. Yeah, exactly that and there's even a strong argument that actually if you you've always got to think of the ancient world as a world don't think of it in terms of a roman empire map so you've got to think beyond

that so albia connects north to scythia connects all the way south to egypt we also are pretty sure by post alexander so alexander the great there is a trade link between Olbia all the way down into southern India. Pretty cool. Yeah. How do you know that? How do you think? Why do you think that? Why? Well, we know that basically, especially after the conquest of Alexander the Great, we know that sort of the eastern side of a visualised ancient map grows, shall we speak. And all it really is, is the trade routes that already existed in the Indian Ocean started to also be replicated on land. So this is where the Spice Road and the light starts to grow in the next couple of centuries. So these trade links are starting to be made. And of course, most of it, when you think Olbia to India, goes through what was Persia, which is now under post-Alexandrian Greek, shall we say, rule.

And these links are being made because, of course, you've got places like Takshila in what is now Pakistan, all the way to sort of the Bay of Bombay. That's linked by a rural road. So you now link Takshila with what is now what we think of as Persia, all the way to Byzantium. If you can get to Byzantium, you're in the Black Sea. So if you can get to Byzantium, you can get to Orbia. If you can get to Orbia, you can get to Bilsk. If you can get to Bilsk, you can get to Cornwall.

If you can get to Cornwall, you can get back to what is now Israel. You know, although these people don't necessarily know each other, and they don't always know about each other very well, they are connected. And Orbia sits as one of the major sites where this occurs. It's one of many, but it is one of the most important sites for it. Hello, everyone. James Rogers here, the host of the Warfare podcast by History Hit. I'm a war historian who works with the UN, NATO, and governments around the world. Twice a week, every week,

we bring you the defining wars of history and learn about the history of emerging wars. The passengers and crew of 149 were trapped, trapped and delivered into the hands of Saddam Hussein. We hear from the veterans who served. Guards there would grab a machine gun and fire at us as we went over and could see the splinters flying in all directions. Through to world-leading historians providing context to understand current conflicts. Finland obviously couldn't join NATO, which makes the two Finnish leaders' statements about Finland deciding for itself whether it will join NATO.

That makes those statements even more important. Subscribe to Warfare from History Hits on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, and join us on the front lines of military history. Okay, so in Orbia's earlier history, when do we really start to see it grow and start reaching its economic zenith? Are we going back pre-Alexander times here? Yes, yeah, we are. So Olbia reaches its kind of zenith, I would argue, is around the time where Athens is in the ascendancy. So since Olbia set up in the 6th century, it sees a lot of political change in the broader Mediterranean world. So of course, it's in Scythia during

Darius's invasion of Scythia. We don't know what it does during that period. This is the Persian invasion of Scythia. This is the Persian invasion of Scythia, that's right. End of the 6th century. So we don't know what role Olbia played in that. We don't know if it sided with the Persians. We don't know if it sided with the Scythians. All we know is it survives. And we also know that it starts to trade with the Persians. So the Persians control the Black Sea at this point. And we find, we have evidence of Persian weights, so weighted clay items, which were used to weigh out at a standard rate, you know, grain and things like that. So you create a fair market.

Okay. By the fifth century, of course, the Persian Wars in Greece have occurred. There's been a slight change in the sort of northern Mediterranean ecosystem politically. Athens starts to spread its influence. And by the 430s, Athens pushes into the Black Sea to control the grain trade, to control all the trade and all the money, really, that is moving around via goods in the Black Sea. And it's at this point, Olbia seems to expand more and more under presumably Athenian patronage. It becomes democratic. We see an investment in temples, the sacred landscape, things like that. And it seems to thrive more and more and more as it goes on. The problem is, the site of Olbia we have now,

most of the remains are Hellenistic. So a lot of this is us trying to piece together a big puzzle with only a few pieces. But this seems to be what's going on. And then the Hellenistic city that we see, time of Alexander and beyond, is when we see Olbia at its biggest, where all the temples are built,

all the agaro is in its full state, etc. That's obviously when it's at its most wealthy. And, okay, we'll definitely go into the Hellenistic stuff very, very soon. I love that time in ancient history. But that time pre-Alexander with the Athenians, this is the time of Herodotus. And if I'm not mistaken, Herodotus, he gives us a detailed description of what Obion looked like at that time, does he? Yeah, he gives us a pretty fair description.

It's accurate enough for historians to debate whether or not he went. You can't really piece together much of what he said, and archaeologists have never really successfully found anything that he's mentioned as such. But for instance, he mentions there are city walls, and we know that the city was walled at least later. There seems to be evidence that there were earlier walls, so perhaps he was there, or at least saw bits of it. So yeah, Herodotus does describe it, not in as much detail as we'd like. It's very much for Herodotus, it is a starting point for him to talk about the Scythian world, because it is, as I said earlier, it is that reference point. The Greek world now ends, okay? Like so much so,

as you leave Olbia and his descriptions, as you come out of the city he suddenly starts to describe so you have the Greeks in Olbia you then have the Greco-Scythians who are this group of people that exist that are half Greek half Scythian and then suddenly you get the hardcore Scythians who do things the Scythian way and then you get the Neroi who are these basically werewolves go and read it it's fantastic and then beyond that are the Androphagoi beyond that are the Griffins so you get this idea this gradual moving away from the Greek world into the mythical world and as I said earlier the Scythians kind of allow him to create that image But in Herodotus's defense, which I don't say often in Herodotus's defense

We do have evidence that there was a Greco-Scythian tribe is the wrong word but group yeah so by the third century BCE we have an inscription which talks about a battle or a sort of a war that's occurred and it's giving thanks and it mentions the sacrifices made by a group of people called the Mixillenes which literally translate as like the mixed Greeks so So half Greeks. And you're like, well, half what? And the logic there being, well, these are the half Greek, half Scythians. They don't live in the city. They live outside the city. But so we got, well, this creates an impression of that some of our more mythical stories about Olbia and Scythia

also corroborate is intermarriage between Greeks and Scythians. And that's how there's this half Greek, half Scythian group of people. Interesting. That is very interesting indeed. I'm guessing that's going to go on and on and on as we get to the Hellenistic period too, and reflected in the architecture that you'll see emerging soon at this particular centre. To an extent, not so much the architecture, but definitely the artwork. The artwork. The artwork. So what we see from about the 5th, 4th century-ish onwards is what art historians call the Greco-Scythian art form, where we see the expertise of Scythian gold work, in particular the metallurgy of gold, and they're beautiful art forms. But we start to see art that uses the Greek obsession with the human form.

And so you see these beautiful pieces of art that kind of mix the expertise of the Scythians with the artistic fashions of the Greeks. And they kind of combine and produce something really quite unique that you don't see anywhere else. There's certainly not the same precision and artistry. And of course, it's places like Olbia that are the patrons of that. Okay, and before, therefore, we go on to the architecture as well. So let's go into the Hellenistic period, because this almost feels... it's also a time there's some turbulence for Olbia at the start as we can get into at time of Alexander and then you can give me an outline if you want me to butt in on this as well I'll be

more than happy to the start of the Hellenistic period in Olbia how does it begin and then how does that influence the creation of the Olbia that you see in the archaeology surviving at this site today? Okay, so the Hellenistic period for Olbia is tumultuous. Ultimately, Olbia cannot survive on its own. It has always relied on a strong outside influence. So whether it's the Persians, whether it's the Athenians, we also have what we used to call the Scythian Protectorate. So we're not 100% sure how the Scythians were involved in the city, but there's very much a sense of the Scythians are kind of looking after it a little and supporting it when it needs it from other outside groups.

So Olbia, as a city-state, it is not the size of Athens. It's not the size of the big polis that we think of. It needs outside help. So, of course, when you get the introduction of Philip and Macedon and of course Alexander the Rear afterwards, Orbia is one of many sitting ducks and it is a desirable place to take because of its trade links. So it was always going to come under scrutiny. It was always going to come under the interests of someone. Where we see it appear is, as you well know, during Alexander's rampage through the Persian Empire. So he's in the east at this point, and he has left behind him numerous commanders to kind of keep the lands

that he's leaving behind him, to basically fix the mess he's making, for want of a better term. The man he leaves in charge of Thrace, so where we think of the sort of, you know, north of modern Greece, around into the beginnings of Bulgaria, Romania, those sort of the sort of, you know, north of modern Greece and round into the beginnings of Bulgaria, Romania, those sort of places, is Zoperion. So we're talking, I mean, what's on that? 330? We're talking about 330, 329 BC. Yeah, 330, 329 BC. This is it. It's a fascinating story. He's a brilliant character, Zoperion, where basically, the way I like to explain it, and you may have a different view, I appreciate that, Tristan the way I like to explain it is he is basically getting constant reports on what Alexander is achieving as he goes further and further east and fancies a bit of it. There is a real innate

arrogance to what he decides to do, rather than just hold the fort, which is ultimately his job, and just maintain order. He pieces together an army, sort of 30,000 strong and decides to expand he expands Northeast so he go he makes the kind of classic mistake. I'm gonna head towards Scythia Remembering that no one has ever really successfully taken Scythia because it's really really hard Because if it's not the people that you're fighting, it's the weather that you're fighting It's the logistical nightmare that you're fighting with the cold winters you know the broken terrain all these kind of things poland world war ii similarly precisely no one no one can take this region easily so he decides to go for this and i just love that he is kind of clear in the evidence his first port of call i'm going to take albia so

he does he sets up for albia with a fleet in support in the Black Sea and he besieges the city. Now, remember what I said, Olbia is a small town. You've got a 30,000 strong army from a Macedonian military tradition that at this point in time is destroying everyone. Like no one can withstand what is coming. The Olbians are not stupid. They know this. So they actually make a rather interesting decision. So they actually make a rather interesting decision. They know that during a siege in Greek warfare, the most likely reason a city will fall in a Greek siege is betrayal from within. So they do something quite fascinating.

They free all the slaves and they make everyone a citizen, including foreign people. So just as an aside, that means the Scythians living in and around Olbia are now Olbian citizens. Interesting caveat. So they free them. Why this works, we can kind of speculate, but it does. So Olbia becomes the centre of resistance against this indomitable force of Zoperion. And they hold out. Against all odds, they hold out. Until, in kind of almost Herodotian style, there's a storm. Suddenly, the Macedonian force loses its naval support. That fleet is all but destroyed. And Superion is stuck in the middle of, well, just west of Ukraine, in the middle of what

is now kind of enemy territory. He is stuck, and he's got to make a decision what to do. He does the only thing he can really do. He lifts the siege because he's now a sitting duck for any resistance against him. Not just the Orbeans, not just the Scythians, there's also the Getae to the west, there's other tribal groups who do not like him. You've got the Thracians who do not like the Macedonian control in the region as well, other kingships that have been disrupted by the Macedonian presence. He is a sitting duck and he knows that, so he has to march home. It doesn't go well. He is ambushed and he is, his entire army, and correct me if I'm wrong, his entire army is wiped out to a home. It doesn't go well. He is ambushed and he is, his entire army, and correct me if I'm wrong, his entire army is wiped out to a man. You know, we really focus on the disasters of the

ancient world. And I suppose the classic is Teutoburg Forest, the Roman, you know, Varus's disaster in Germany. I think this has to come close to lose that many men. I have called it the Macedonian Teutoburg Forest. Oh, have you? No, it's just lovely to focus more on that because it was often overlooked because of Alexander. It's only restricted to a few lines in Quintus Curtis' Rufus and maybe a bit in Justin too. But it is such a fascinating, horrific, infamous story. I think Alexander, when he heard the news, he cried.

And the death of his uncle as well in southern Italy around the same time. It all mourns at the news because it's such a significant setback, which will cause incredible turmoil in Thrace, in Bulgaria, for Lysimachus, for following Alexander the Great's death, because they've lost so much manpower, because of this audacious venture to Olbia, which fails terribly. But on the other hand, for Olbia, this is like a great Kickstarter, isn't it? They've defended their territory against the Macedonians. I don't think the Macedonians come back, or correct me if I'm

wrong. No, no, they don't at all. You're absolutely right. So for Olbia, this is, I wouldn't say it's a defining moment, because actually, if you look at the history of Olbia, this is the moment where we as historians can see its decline, which is odd when you think of this as its kind of zenith moment. But you can just see the decline in it immediately. Suddenly we see more and more wealthy citizens having to invest in the city. Remember, this is still supposed to try and be almost a democratic system. That's really starting to fall apart. It requires its aristocracy to keep it going so we see in like inscriptions and stuff the city are thanking individuals for basically rebuilding the walls for you know investing heavily in the city

why is that because it's lost its important position it's losing its strong outside influences that are helping it and perhaps this is also timing it with a massive change in the north so what we call the classical Scythian period is coming to an end so the kind of traditional Scythians that we think of start to disappear and that's when we start to hear about sort of more individual groups like the Sarmatians the Saramatians and people like this we don't really hear of the Scythians as a group as such anymore, other than in sort of stereotypical ways. As we move into, in European terms, we're moving into the Roman Republican period, sort of the height of the Roman Republican period. So a lot of change going on. And Olbia is really declining during this period. So whilst this is where the

sort of the classic Greek architecture that we see in Olbia and stuff is present, obviously because of this investment from rich aristocrats, really, it is a decline. And that decline continues and continues. So by the time in Gaul, France, when Julius Caesar is doing his, you know, his bit in France, Olbia, other side of Europe, is on the verge of collapse. So we're only, what are we, like 200 years maybe at a push. We're about 200 years later from this siege that they've survived. It is on the verge of collapse from Dacian tribes

coming in from what we now think of sort of the Danube region, Romania, places like that. They come in and they sack the city. The problem is, as I said, there is no real written account of Olbia. So we've got to piece this together. What happened in those 200 years? Can't really say but enough has gone wrong that the city can now be sacked by sort of local groups moving in Something that Olbia had resisted for centuries it now couldn't resist. So it is sacked in the first century

BCE but that's not the end of the story So Olbia is sacked, the people leave, and then within 100 years, it reappears. So Olbia is refounded. And it's refounded not by Greeks, but by Scythians. So the local Scythian tribes basically ask the remnant Greeks in the area, can you go and restart Olbia, basically? Can you go and refound it and bring Greek trade back to the area? Telling us, of course, the Greeks aren't trading in the area as much at this point. So they ask it to be re-founded with Scythian support, sort of local tribal, local cultural support. And interestingly, we know all this because a writer from the first century CE, AD, Dio Chrysostom, goes there and he interacts with a young man, 18-year-old lad.

He meets an 18-year-old lad from Olbia and he writes an entire sort of, almost like an essay, describing this interaction. And in it, he gives us a fascinating insight into what Olbia is now like. So he meets this young man, first century CE. The young man appears to him on a horse in Scythian clothing. That's what we're told. He's wearing Scythian clothing. He's wearing the most barbaric of clothing items. He's wearing trousers, which to the Greeks, to the Romans, is just a no-no. Now, practicality, I can see why he's wearing trousers. It's very cold.

And actually, life in Olbia would have required a lot of time on a horseback. OK, not in the city itself, obviously. But, you know, trading around with local groups, you're going to be on horseback. Trousers make sense. So he's dressed as a Scythian. We are told that he is clearly well educated in rhetoric, in politics, in philosophy. He loves Homer. This is everything Dio is telling us. He loves Homer. Doesn't have any respect for any other poet. So he's almost like a caricature of a Greek. So when Dio Chrysostom is trying to talk to him about other poets, he's basically dismissive of them.

They're not Homer, I don't care. Dio also goes as far as to say the Albions generally, they're Greek, but barely. He describes the Greek language they speak as basically being wrong, which is a fascinating insight, because we know from the inscriptions from the city, their Greek is absolutely fine. It's the same as any sort of regional Greek inscriptions. They is absolutely fine you know it's the same as any

sort of regional greek inscriptions they all look the same it's the same language they speak greek so what is he actually judging there is he judging an accent is he judging a dialect yeah this is it so what we're getting is an interesting insight into what someone who considers them like from the sort of central greek culture observing an outside greek culture olbia and it's like you're greek but not really and that's the kind of lasting image we have of olbia pretty much disappears from the records after that and it is a fascinating insight where you know so the greeks olbia doesn't look greek enough they're not greek enough for what they want them to be and if anything that really is the lasting impression of Olbia.

That is the lesson of Olbia. To survive at the edge of the world, to survive surrounded by supposed barbarians, you adapt, you change, you become something new. And that's fantastic. And it's fascinating. But central Greece sort of lose a sense of who you are. And they stop being able to relate to you in the same way and i just find that really revealing about not only greek culture but also the greeks own sense of identity and i'm presuming you've studied many of these communities on the periphery of the greek world i'm guessing you've seen similarities and how they're viewed by greeks more central to that world all across the mediterranean and beyond yes absolutely. We do sort of get this sense of they're different. Greek, but how Greek?

Are they becoming a bit too barbarian? Are they, for want of a better term, you know, are they going native? There's this real sense of they're changing and they're being influenced by these other cultures around them. And we do see that elsewhere. We absolutely do. But at Olbia, it seems to be really ingrained in the observations being made. And you wonder if that's because there's nowhere in the Greek mind more barbaric than Scythia itself. Last question before we completely wrap up on this. Talk to me a bit more about the architecture. So the architecture that is still there when the archaeologists have been working at this site in Ukraine, have been working there for so many years before the present troubles. What has the archaeology revealed about what the architecture looks like in this Hellenistic, in this later period of Olbia's history? Well, the archaeology is quite limited. So really a lot of

it, as is always the case, you've got to kind of visualize it yourself, try and build it in your own mind. But ultimately, this is on the ground, a Greek city. Yeah, so the architecture, the city design has grown organically. It's clearly grown organically. You still have everything you'd expect to find in a Greek polish. You have the agora, you have the assembly buildings, you have the council, you know, all these elements that are very Greek. So as a blueprint, as kind of a

footprint, it looks as Greek as Greek can be. So this is why, you know, it's important to bring in the literary evidence to kind of supplement that, go, actually, what else is going on? But there's also other teeny bits of archaeology that kind of dispel our assumptions. Greek city, Greek people, this looks like it should look like. So therefore, we'll just assume it's the same as everywhere else. So my favourite piece of archaeological evidence, and we've got loads of it, are coins. So in Olbia, we can track coinage from its sort of earliest years to when they actually start minting proper coins. So before they start minting proper coins, sort of 5th or 4th century, that kind of period, what we see is almost like a token. And in Olbia, what's interesting is those tokens, that coinage, are shaped like objects. So it's cast

bronze, and two of them are particularly revealing. Well, the two main ones are particularly revealing. One is we have lots of coins that are shaped like dolphins. What, literally shaped like dolphins? Yeah, so they're cast bronze dolphins. Kind of rudimentary. I wouldn't say they're beautiful, but they are dolphins. Now, historians have always had to explain this. Why are they, why dolphins? This has been linked to one of the major cults in Olbia. And they, they have found the temple of Apollo. So Apollo has many symbols. Dolphins happens to be one of them. So that's always been the explanation. Dolphins.

But a more logical explanation is that the Black Sea has dolphins. And it's probably like, you know, one of the major animals in the area. So we've got dolphins. The other type of coin token we have are arrowhead shaped. But specifically arrowhead shaped that are associated with Scythian arrows. Again, why would you choose as coinage an arrowhead shapes that are associated with Scythian arrows. Again, why would you choose as coinage an arrowhead? Now, people have argued, Apollo, he's an archer. You can see how these things kind of link together when you've got a theory in your head. The other logical thing would be, well, it's because the Scythians have a strong affinity with archery, with arrowheads.

So actually, dolphins' arrowheads are as much linked to the local geography, the local politics, the local culture, as they are to a Greek cult. Yeah. So that's the first thing. But of course, you know, pick one. You know, is it the Scythians? Is it Apollo? Does it really matter? What then becomes interesting is when they start minting coins. So Greeks, when they mint coins, they obviously put a picture, usually, on the front and back. Often divine images. So we get, you know, obviously there's an Apollo. Of course, there's an Apollo. Zeus, things like that.

But on the other side, we do have coins which have the sagaris, which is the long-handled axe of the Scythians and the Amazons. We also have the goretus, so the bow case of the Scythians. This is Scythian iconography. This is not Greek iconography. So why are they putting Scythian iconography on coins? Well, the only logic I can come up with is because you want Scythians to take it. So you're creating a monetary system that the Scythians can respect. Money doesn't exist unless both sides accept a value. So perhaps is that why

these dolphin coins existed? Is this why these arrowheads existed? It was an attempt to create a monetary system of some form that the Scythians would at least accept. So this is where we start to piece it together. So actually, Albion architecture, Albion archaeology, Albion material evidence, when we talk about it, we have to remember that who is it they're doing it for? It's not just Greeks, it's Scythians. It's local people as well. And when you come at it from that perspective, you move away from this idea of, you know, let's look at this Greek city in this one place and this is Greek history.

It's not. It's a global history. It's definitely a European history, but it's also Black Sea history. It's Eurasian history, both through trade, but also through culture, also through material evidence,

and also through Olbia itself. I think that's a really nice thought to leave it on that once again as you've highlighted throughout this podcast how we are is it it's not just a greek city of all these various elements and you mentioned that the word added to our list the in word of adapting yeah so it's really interesting how albira encases that in what is now modern day Ukraine. Owen, you are writing a book at this minute. I know it's some time till it is released, but Olbia is part of it. It's all to do with this parts of ancient history not as often talked about. That's right. Yes. So the sort of work entitled Far Edges of the Known World kind of sums this up. And Olbia is one of, I've got about 13 case studies.

You know, it's not just Greek, it's like a Roman, I go outside the classical world, so we look at Pakistan, Punjab, Takshila, which we mentioned. But I also go as far as Vietnam, you know, these places that are almost at the edges or even beyond the edges of the map that we visualise of the ancient world. And as Olbia kind of encapsulates, they are connected.

So to understand Athens and Rome, you do need to understand Hadrian's Wall, Tunisia, Morocco, Egypt, Pakistan, the Punjab region, Vietnam, China. And when we start to get rid of our limitations on the bit of ancient history that we look at, Rome, Greece, Egypt, they're the big three. You see, actually, the ancient world is that. It is a world that is connected. And it's just been great to be able to go through one of them in Olbia, which kind of encapsulates that. It's a great topic for a book and a very much needed one as well. So, Owen, it just goes to me to say thank you so much for coming back on the podcast today, bud. Thank you so much for having me back. It's been a pleasure.

for coming back on the podcast today, bud. Thank you so much for having me back. It's been a pleasure. Well, there you go. There was Dr. Owen Rees, good friend of the podcast, telling you the story of Olbia, Ukraine's ancient Greek city.

I hope you enjoyed the episode as much as I did recording it. It's so great to actually see it now being released because I've been wanting to do this topic for quite some time now. If you want to help us with the podcast in the meantime where you know what you can do you can leave us a lovely rating on Apple Podcasts and Spotify wherever you get your podcasts from and it does really help us. It's lovely to see your feedback, to hear your feedback good and bad, we always learn from it and to keep moving forwards with our mission to share these awesome stories from our

distant past with you and to also give these incredible our mission to share these awesome stories from our distant past with you and to also give these incredible experts the spotlight that they in their years of dedication to their certain areas of research, what that dedication deserves. Well, that's enough rambling on from me and I'll see you in the next episode.