The Ariel Helwani Show - AJ Hawk

Episode Date: November 24, 2021

In this special Wednesday edition of the show, Ariel talks to former NFL linebacker AJ Hawk about his post-football career as a broadcaster and as co-host of The Pat McAfee Show. In this wide-ranging conversation, Hawk discusses his relationship with former teammate Aaron Rodgers (18:57), how the NFL treats its players upon retirement (53:30), his love of MMA and his own fighting experiences, why he says yes to everything and why he and his wife got engaged after only four months of dating. Plus, Hawk gives Ariel some workout advice!AJ Hawk played 11 seasons in the NFL, spending nine of them with the Green Bay Packers. The Packers selected Hawk No. 5 overall out of Ohio State in the 2006 NFL Draft, eventually winning the Super Bowl with Green Bay in 2011. After walking away from football in 2016, Hawk has been an analyst for Fox Sports, hosted The HawkCast and has become a regular fixture on The Pat McAfee Show.You can follow AJ on Twitter and Instagram @OfficialAJHawk. Today's episode is brought to you by Manscaped! Get 20% off plus FREE shipping today by using the code "HELWANI" when you visit this link: manscaped.com/helwani.For more episodes of The Ariel Helwani Show, please follow the show on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or your favorite podcast app.To get more from Ariel, subscribe to his YouTube channel, read his writing on Substack, watch his work for BT Sport, and follow The MMA Hour or The Ringer MMA Show.Theme music: "Frantic" by The Lovely Feathers

Hey everyone, welcome back to a brand new edition of the Helwani Show. I, of course, am Ariel Helwani. It is Wednesday, November 24th, 2021. Yes, we usually like to drop these Thursday morning, but because it's Thanksgiving here in the United States, and I know a lot of people are commuting, I thought maybe we'd drop this a little early to give you a little extra something something. If you're looking for more things, and if the MMA Hour and all the other million things I am doing these days isn't enough for you, I am very excited about today's program. As always, thank you very much to our good friends over at the Lovely

Feathers for their support, for letting me use their theme song. I love them very much. I love all the support that we're getting here. And like I said, I'm very excited about today's show because we've got the great A.J. Hawk on the program, a man who played in the NFL for 10 years, played for the Green Bay Packers, won a Super Bowl with them, played for the Cincinnati Bengals, had a cup of coffee with the Falcons. At the very end of his career, won a national championship with Ohio State University, and has become a great media guy as well. You see him every day on the Patrick McAfee Show. We've become friends. We had our little feud. Now we're buddies. And I just love his demeanor. I'm a big fan of his on the show. I think he's the perfect yin to McAfee's yang. And he's just a super interesting guy, mild-mannered, calm, not a crazy, loud, hot take type of guy.

He's just perfect for that show. And I have a lot of respect for what he's done in his career. Big MMA fan. And I really love this conversation. We went over an hour again, and he was very gracious with his time and very open with a lot of things. So thank you very much to AJ. As always, thanks to all of you. We appreciate you subscribing, reviewing, doing all the things that you do.

It means more than you know. We appreciate all of you who watch the interviews as well on our YouTube channel, youtube.com slash Ariel Helwani. This is a fun little thing. And like I said, I look forward to it each and every week. Now, before we get to AJ, though, I do have an exciting announcement to make. We have our first sponsor on the program. How about that? And it's an old friend. It's my old friends over at Manscaped. Remember, I used to do all the Manscaped reads back in the ESPN days? Well, they're back back and they're our first sponsor.

They're sponsoring today's episode. I appreciate them very much. And so without further ado, let me tell you a little bit about our good friends over at Manscaped. As you know, it's the holiday season. And if you don't know what to get as a gift or a stocking stuffer, today's sponsor, Manscaped, has the tools to guarantee you win this year's stocking stuffer or white elephant competition. Manscaped has the tools to guarantee you win this year's stocking stuffer or white elephant

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The newly launched Manscaped 2-in-1 shampoo and conditioner, the Manscaped cologne-infused body wash, Shears 2.0 luxury four-piece nail kit, Crop Mops wipes, Manscapes Signature Cologne. These formulations are all vegan, cruelty-free, dye-free, sulfate-free, paraben-free, so you know their products are legit. Make sure you hurry to their site right now to ensure these wild gifts show up for the holiday season. And while you're at it, get 20% off plus free shipping at manscaped.com slash Helwani. Whether this is for you, your partner, your dad, your brother, your friend, get them something that they will actually use

and it's almost sure to get a laugh as well. Again, 20% off plus free shipping at manscaped.com slash Helwani, H-E-L-W-A-N-I. Be the ballsiest gift giver this year with Manscaped and please support them because they support us. Now, without further ado, thank you very much to Manscaped, but it's time to get to our conversation with the one and only A.J. Hawk. Enjoy. been making this up i'm not joking right now the most requested guest has been this man aj hawk

ohio state legend green bay packer legend media legend aj every single week i get a when is aj hawk appearing on the helwani show request no cap are you surprised by this i mean yeah i would i haven't you know previewed every episode that you have so far. I've seen some of it. I would imagine you may start with this with everyone. That would be perfect. It's a great little intro, I think, for any guests you have. This is true. This is true.

People seem to like our dynamic. They like you very much. And people want to learn more about you coming from me. Questions. They didn't like when we were feuding. Now we're pretty close. I would say almost close to best buds. So this is nice.

I appreciate you doing it very much. Super close. I own some of your merch that you sent me. So thank you. It actually just came in. I didn't wear it today. I should have. But yeah, you have some nice merch out there, man.

It would have been a nice gesture. I was wondering, secretly wondering if you would do it. But no, very happy that you have it. By the way, I was reading an old... And by the way, this is A.J. Hawk. Everyone knows A.J. Hawk, Green Bay Packers, Ohio State, Atlanta Falcons as well, Cincinnati Bengals.

There you go. Digging deep, man. Three and a half weeks. Had a great time there. It was awesome though. Yeah. I was reading a Players Tribune piece that you penned. By the way, did you actually pen it or did you tell it to someone else and they wrote

it? I've done a few of them. Which one? Okay. The retirement one. Yeah, it was mainly pretty much all me. I've had one in the past. Not that one, but I've had a, I don't know if it was Players Tribune or somewhere else

where they wanted me to have like a ghostwriter thing. And I told them like, I can just, let me just shoot something out to you. Like I wrote a million papers in college. I don't care. I enjoy this. And like, well, we want you to talk to somebody. So they got on the phone, talked to somebody forever. I think it was an Ohio state thing. Yeah. It was about Ohio state. And they sent me back what they wanted to publish from me. And the dude said like,

Oh, I, I can't wait to get my Buckeye red and red enough. He did not even scarlet and gray is the colors of Ohio state. And they wanted me to write something first person getting the colors wrong almost like saying oh here's pd pd the buckeye like it's not brutus the buckeye like they it was basic stuff like that so i remember like i can't let anyone write for me man like that's what happens i feel like yes no it's better uh charles barkley famously once uh said that he didn't write something that was in his autobiography. So it's always better if it comes from you. The reason I bring this up, though, is in the one where you kind of announce your retirement, the beginning of it is all about how you have had a hard time saying no in your life. You always overschedule yourself. The day you got engaged, you went out and drove two and a half hours to do an autograph signing. This has been

a point of contention between you and your lovely wife. And so when I'm reading this, I'm thinking to myself, man, because initially, breaking the fourth wall, I asked you to come on, you didn't respond. And then I had to re-ask. And I was like, I think AJ doesn't want to do this show. And he's only saying yes, because I'm being annoying. And I'm the sort of friend of the show. So true or false, do you regret saying yes to this? No, Ariel, if I didn't want to do the show, guess what? I wouldn't do the show. I wouldn't, I don't want to be a dick to anybody, but I would, I don't, I, I definitely have done that in the past where I, I get myself into situations where I hate it. I'm like, why did I say yes? Like I should have just,

I should have been upfront and honest. So yeah, now I think as I get older, I, I have a, I'm a little bit better at saying no, not great, but I'm better. And I like you, I'm a fan of everything that you have done. And we had a fun little situation. I don't know how we got into starting fighting, throwing insults back and forth with each other for a while with during this whole COVID deal. And I think we've come through the other side. So we'll see though, you know, I always say it's thin line between love and hate, Ariel. Yes, amen. Actually, I was on your podcast, The Hawk Cast,

I think in 2017, you interviewed me, which was a huge honor. I couldn't even believe that you knew who I was. Curious, why haven't you done an episode since April of 2020? That's a great question. So my podcast, yeah, which I'm a huge listener of other people's podcasts, always have been, did my own for a while. And then I started doing, working with Pat McAfee pretty much five days a week now for the last over a year.

And I don't know why the booking, you know, from your hustling all over the place, the booking, everything about it. I think I love doing it. I just am not great at everything that goes with it and setting it up. And I have people that help me put it out and all that, but I don't know. I may, I may get back to it, but it does feel different now, especially with the thing I have going over with Pat McAfee and all the boys. It's just a different dynamic sitting down doing a one-on-one thing for me. I don't know. I guess it would be good for me. Honestly, I did it for a while and I haven't done that in a long time. I thought you had a very good interview style.

You're mild-mannered. You don't put on a show. You don't put on an act. So I would encourage you to get back to it. The long-form interviews, it's different than what you do with Pat. And I went back in the feed, and I was like, wow, April 2020, that's a long time ago. I can understand you're very busy.

I would say to you, I think you should pick it up maybe once a month, just to keep it rolling so the feed isn't dead. You know what I mean? It's not a bad idea. you're very busy, I would say to you, I think you should pick it up maybe once a month, just, just to keep it rolling. So the, the feed isn't dead. You know what I mean? It's not a bad idea. I mean, that's a very good idea. I need to hire a booker. That's what I need. I need, or just somebody to help me book, but that's, that's everybody's issue because everyone does doing podcasts. Did you always want to be a media guy when you were done? Cause again, like, no. Okay. I'm surprised. I'm not surprised to hear you say that. When did you start to think that this was

a thing you wanted to do? Or how did it come about? I always talked to the media. I had plenty of respect for them and understood it. But I never sought it out, especially college, high school, whatever. When college, I guess, is when you kind of really are confronted where you talk to the media almost every single day, at least during the season when you're a football player. I'd say my first three, four years in the NFL, I never thought it would ever, I never thought about, you know, going into the media. And then I believe after my, I don't know, six or six year in the

league, I went to the broadcasting bootcamp that the NFL puts on in Jersey, I believe it was. And it was like three and a half days of, of just, it was great. They, they gave us homework every night. You were there all 12, 15 hours doing every single form, writing scripts for prompters, calling fake games, doing every, every aspect you could do in sports. And I came away from that. I know some guys that were there like, man, this is not for me. This is a lot more work than I thought. This is whatever I came away and and said, this is awesome. I want to dive in. I want to do this. So then I started to do little things and say yes to more opportunities that I had that maybe I had turned down in the past. And so that broadcasting bootcamp, is that mandatory or is it just basically the NFL says,

hey, if anyone's interested, you can come out and do this? You actually, you have to be accepted. You got to write a letter. You got to do all kinds of stuff. Yeah. Because they put a lot of money and resources and people into that. You're getting, I mean, just all of the top people that are on TV that are behind the camera, they come in and they put on like little, they'll give you presentations. They'll walk you through things. So no, you didn't have to go. I obviously before for me to even go to that, I had to have some kind of interest in getting into media and broadcasting. And I knew at the time I thought I really would want to call games as a color analyst for games. And so I was like, yeah, I want to go to this boot camp and see what it's like. the prime of your career that has now turned into like a huge you know tv guy radio guy a former player are you like wow this guy's really good he's going to be something and he turned out to be something there man i remember uh yeah there's a lot of guys there but i don't know if like guys

from my class like a lot of them are all doing stuff everywhere like we all are on different platforms and streaming internet but it wasn't like uh the guys are you're turning on watching espn right now i'm probably a little too old honestly a lot of those guys are younger than me now i guess orlovsky is my is about my age swagoo is my age but those guys weren't in boot camp with me i don't know a lot of those guys didn't didn't go to that or um people have gone to it but not uh i don't think it's like a thing that most players even seek out. Correct me if I'm wrong. You don't really do much analyst work these days, right? You're mostly doing the shows and, you know, like this type of format. Is that accurate?

And if so, why? Yeah, that's definitely accurate. I worked as I did color commentary for college games for the last three, four years. This is the first season I'm not doing any games. I had I was going to I would been working doing a lot of these conference usa games i've been loving it doing 10 11 12 games the last couple years this year they offered me a big package of games i was going to i looked at but i knew once this thing once i what i've been doing with pat mcafee and all of those guys and once i started doing that five days a week i realized like i i was gonna have to make a

decision if i was gonna go and do games at some point. I have four young kids. I'm coaching multiple teams and you're gone all weekend if you go do games. I at least had my schedule pretty good where I would leave Friday afternoon. I come home Sunday morning, but still I'm missing a lot of those Saturday games. I'm coaching a lot of stuff. So this was the first year I haven't been traveling around actually working games. Do you miss it? Yeah, I love doing games. That's why I got into broadcasting media. I don't care to give my opinion.

I'm not an opinion guy. I'm not a hot take guy that's going to sit there and argue with people. I tend to not even, I don't know. I just don't have an opinion on a lot of things that people have opinions on. I can't work myself up. I can't manufacture anger or something or just for TV. I'm not that good of an actor. I'm not that good at doing that kind of stuff.

So I like doing games because I can study all week. Like I'm playing the game. I sit there and I watch and go through everything, take all my notes, talk to the coaches and get to the game. Okay, let's see if they're, are they doing what I thought that what they've been doing the last two or three weeks. Are they switching up? It was fun to try to the game. I'm like, okay, let's see if they're, are they doing what I thought, what they've been doing the last two or three weeks. Are they switching up? It was fun to try to diagnose that.

Did you have any kind of relationship with Pat when you were playing? No, I didn't. I, man, I didn't really even officially meet him, I think, until I was on the Bengals and he was, we were playing the Colts on a preseason game. And I saw him like out, we were preseason games.

They let anybody be the captain, I think. And I was captain for that day. I think he was too. And I basically met him right there and then didn't really talk to him until I started doing a podcast with him on Barstool. When he was with Barstool and Jerry Thornton, we did a thing called Laces Out for one season in the NFL. And we did it every Sunday night, kind of recapping all the games.

And we had a ton of fun. And so then we started, I started going on his show every once in a while after that. So how does the official offer come about for you to be... You are a legit co-host on the show now. I know you're not on the entire time, but you're on five days a week, as you said. How did this all come about for you? It was pretty organic. there was nothing, no plan by anybody. I would just call into a show. He would ask me every once in a while to come on the show and I would call in and have fun for 30 minutes and have fun with the boys and enjoyed it. And then COVID hit. I remember school was shutting down. We were going to start homeschooling March, whatever. And I

remember the Sunday night before that, I texted him because we'd been doing a little bit more stuff together. I've been coming on his show every, I don't know. I don't know how often, but I texted him and said, hey, man, everything's shutting down. Sports aren't playing. We should do something together. And I texted him.

He's like, that's a good idea. And then the next day, Monday, Zito, all the boys behind the scenes there, put together graphics, everything. We had McAfee and Hawk sports talk, Monday, Zito, all the boys behind the scenes there, put together graphics, everything. We had McAfee and Hawk sports talk, and we did that, I believe, four days a week starting that day. So it went from McAfee, Hawk, sports talk to then you just being a part of the show. That's not really a thing anymore, right? No, because he's moved around. Pat used to be carried on CBS radio, wherever.

I don't know. i don't i don't know how to find even the serious feed of his show of the show that we do really but um i he was on cbs so i would come on after a show i think and he would just keep it rolling on youtube with me and then he moved the series 12 to 3 and i said all right we'll come on from 2 to 3 with you on series and youtube and then we can go over And that's what I was doing at first. And then just over time, now I go on his shows, 12 to three on series. I go on at one. And I think yesterday the show went an hour and 10 minutes past three o'clock. We just hang out on YouTube and it's a little after hours thing. So that's kind of how it started and where we are now. And it's been fun, man. I love it. It's the most i've told him and all those boys like it's the most

authentic and real i ever have been doing any media or i can actually be myself and that's how and give my legit views i don't have to try to speak in cliches it's just fun i get there with their personalities it's fun and i can be myself how do you feel when he's away and you have to go in the studio and you're the host? How comfortable are you doing that? I'm not a first. I've done that in studio, I don't know, four or five times maybe. It's definitely a different dynamic. It's a different vibe for sure, but I love it.

But it's like anything. For me, I don't say I get nervous, but I definitely get anxious for things a lot. I'm like, okay, I get really excited and maybe kind of, I don't know if I'd call it nervous, just anxious to do things. And that's exactly how I feel. If I go in there and, and work there in person, not as much anymore, but I still get excited and it's something different. It's a different feeling, different setting. I mean, I'm, I'm holed up in this attic up here. This is, this is kind of my comfort zone. And then you go out there in the studio and know that I'm like, you're driving the ship. You're the guy doing everything.

It's definitely different. But every time I do it, I'm like, man, this is so good for me. It's such, it's out of my comfort zone. It's not what I'm naturally inclined to do. So I'm like, this is making me better. Are you the, I think a huge reason for the show's success over the past year has been Aaron Rodgers Tuesdays. Are you the reason why Aaron comes on the show? I mean, he's your former teammate, very good friend of yours. Are you

the one who put them together? No, we were, we had Aaron on a few times and then, and I've, I've been, you know, good friends with Aaron since he was there. He got to Green Bay one year before me. I spent nine years there. Um, so kept in touch, see him all the time and everything. And he had met Pat previously at a golf tournament and then Aaron come on a few times. And then Pat, I remember texting me and said, Hey, you think Aaron would want to come on every Tuesday and make it a regular thing? And I'm like, yeah, I would assume so.

And I think I texted Aaron right there and he said, absolutely. Like, let's do it. Let's get it it done and then he's now you know we're in the second year of him coming on the show it's uh it's been huge for the show i think it's been huge for aaron of course uh a few weeks ago like the the eyes and the ears of the sporting world were on your little show uh not that little anymore the numbers aren't like it was at like 75 000 concurrent viewers for his you know big exclusive interview honestly how awkward was that for you i mean that's your friend right and you and you guys are asking him some questions i mean i think the best part about what happened on that show was you guys just let him speak um

that's usually the best or the worst part or the worst part depending on who you talk like i don't get too caught up in what people they get upset like i understand either way cool have your opinion i hope you do have an opinion i hope you're not indifferent towards the show, but I don't get caught up in it, but I guess, yeah, there's a lot of people were super pissed, right. That we didn't press them on certain things. No, I think, uh, I think the way you handled it was ultimately the best way, but for you, because you're a friend and also you're now sitting in the media chair, how awkward was that for you? That's a little awkward, I guess, especially that situation, the COVID situation, how this all just bam comes out. I'm like, all right, well, I'm definitely not like a political guy. I am not someone that jumps out there. And

like I said, I don't have an opinion on a lot of things. And so, yeah, figure out exactly. That's why I think we just let him talk. And I knew going into it, that's always my answer. If I ever don't know what to do, just let the other person, like, you're not here to listen to me. Like I'm doing a show. If we have Aaron Rogers on, guess what? The last I need none, no time with me on the mic. I need to say, how are you feeling, Aaron? And that should be my only thing. Let this dude go. Like, that's how I feel like with that. And we haven't tried to figure out follow-ups that were, I guess, at least that maybe – I was trying to think of questions that other people would have. That's always a thing. What would other people want to know?

But yeah, especially when Aaron came on the first day to address the whole situation, I said three words. I wanted to hear what he had to say. Did you feel – I mean, afterwards, did he say anything to you privately did he feel okay with it because okay mainly what i'm wondering is did he say to you who is that moron in the luchador mask that was making fun of me afterwards did he ask about me that's really what i want to know he did not ask about you he definitely knows who you are though ariel we were uh oh no we were in uh tahoe when connor uh broke his leg in that fight we were watching that we're out in lake tahoe at a golf thing that we do every year and i was staying we stay in a house that he gets and we were watching that and i think he uh your name came up there for some

reason i don't know he yeah he knows all about he he's a fan of of mma and knows you and i i've never heard him say oh who's that turd i go i'm on dana's side i haven't heard that from him okay good good good, good. You know, it's all in good fun. The Joe Rogan thing. I mean, I just had to walk through that. Well, we've been messing with him too. Like he even said Dr. Joe Rogan the other day. So yeah, it's a whole, we get, like it's, yeah.

Hopefully people can laugh a little bit about it. Have you ever felt uncomfortable, whether it's in these interviews? And I know you kind of stand back a little bit, but even when you have to opine, some of these guys are your friends, former teammates. Sometimes you have to be critical. And I know you're not the hot take guy, but you are there for what, two hours or so, five days a week. I mean, this is like 10, 11, 12 hours a week. Have you ever had to

bite your tongue or feel bad about talking about a friend or a former teammate yeah not like teammates absolutely like i definitely have a hard time with teammates if someone would if someone's calling like my t like one of my old teammates that's a good guy like a bum or this oh this guy's terrible i want to be like all right like it's the nfl man nobody's terrible like nobody's terrible player yes compared to somebody they may have looked bad but I try to take it that way. But yeah, I don't, I don't do well trying to criticize people I like or that are my friends. I can be somewhat like I can question their behavior, question what they're doing, but

I'm not someone that can sit there and just go super hard on one of my buddies. The hard thing is a lot of the coaches around the league uh that i've been like was in contact with are all over the place that's i have a hard time people railing on them like i don't want to say bad stuff about a lot of these coaches that i love and i respect because i know i'll be you know i'm texting with them i'm talking to them on the phone i see them in person every once in a while like that's that's kind of sometimes what's harder for me going back to that uh players tribune piece when you retired one of the things you talked about was life after football and being worried that you you know you would be the guy who sleeps until 11 you don't know what you're doing you're meandering

through life if you didn't find this stuff if you didn't find the media stuff and and your last game was 2016 i believe um what would you be doing five years later uh if i didn't do any broadcasting media stuff yeah you're saying i don't know like i i my my degree was in criminology i wanted to be a cop uh coming into college maybe i would go into that field but that's not a very that's a tough one now too i mean it's good luck with that i'm not sure i i always i think about that a lot same thing i I think about. So I live in Columbus, Ohio. I'm from Centerville, Ohio, about an hour and a half from Columbus. And I always wondered if I didn't go to Ohio state, what would I be doing? Where would I live?

Like I could have gone to Penn state. Maybe no one's living in happy Valley when they're done where like, I'm so lucky that my wife's from here and I went to school here. So a lot of my teammates came back here. I would have figured out something, I guess, through that and with them. But I never thought I got to read that players tribute piece. I can't imagine I was saying that I was going to sleep until 11. I mean, I've never slept until 11. You said you were worried that you were going to be one of those guys. Oh, one of those guys.

Yeah, because I've seen it. Yeah. And I remember I've read a lot of stuff and talked to guys. But I was definitely not as much worried as like, okay, now I definitely know that I am like a detail-oriented guy, need a purpose, something to work for. So I always knew like physically and mentally I was going to be up and have my routine working out every day and doing all that stuff

to stay feeling good. But, yeah, as far as like my profession, I don't know. That's why I understand like, hey man, I'm lucky. Like I love doing everything I'm doing. I've jumped around, done stuff everywhere. I'm serious all over, did a bunch of stuff for DAZN. But now where I'm at with Pat and the boys, it's where I'm meant to be, I think. Have you always, like for as long as you can remember, always wanted to be a football player? Was that the dream? Or was there another dream prior to that? Yeah, I mean, football, baseball, or basketball.

I played all three growing up. But I think I knew pretty early on, probably by sixth, seventh grade, that if I was going to get a scholarship, I mean, I wasn't thinking about getting scholarships then. But I knew football was probably my, my best sport, but I still loved basketball too at that point and still enjoyed baseball. Not as much as the other two, but yeah, football was always my favorite by far 100%. The one I would work the hardest for. I'd never miss any kind of football workout. I didn't mind missing a basketball open gym. If there was a, you know, if we had a lift for football or something, but so it was always really my number one but i think yeah maybe early on in high school i knew like if i need to if i

get a scholarship it's going to be in football was it always defense for you no i played offense i played running back to my whole life i would have loved to play running back in college the problem is i was gaining 25 pounds a year in high school started as a freshman like 150 and then gained like 25 pounds a year pretty much. So they'd have put me at fullback. I didn't want to play fullback. I want to play tailback. I wouldn't get a hat.

I wouldn't get a hat in college. And when you say 25 pounds, you mean like muscle, right? You weren't just getting. Oh, yeah. Just eating protein shakes and dumping peanut butter in and trying to find creatine monohydrate, old school style. I'm sure you were big into that. Yeah. I mean, this all sounds very foreign to me.

Still, obviously, you're still jacked. Do you run? I do run, yes. You have to because you're a trim, fit dude. I would assume you're one of those runners. So I like to run. I like to play basketball. You and Adam Sandler play together?

I would love to play with adam sandler one of my bucket list items um but i have to admit like i you know doing if i if i could be honest with you i had like a little moment of clarity last night aj um i need to start like hitting the weights a little bit i'm you know i'm approaching 40 this is true would your wife carry you down the stairs or something what happened i was just trying on the suits i don't like how they fit and i just you know, I think I've hit 40. Are they too big? They're baggy?

No, they're too tight. Really? Yeah. Guess how much I weigh? 135. Get out of here. I have no idea. This is like a woman asking your age.

So you go all the way under. I'm around like 202. How tall are you? Six. Yeah, you're jacked, under. I'm around like 202. How tall are you? Six. Yeah, you're jacked, man. I'm jacked, but it's not the good kind of jack. So what do you want to weigh? Ideally, I'd like to weigh like 185,

but I want to have a six-pack. I want to have big pecs and big muscles. I talk to all these strong people. I think it's about time that I become strong as well. Honestly, have you ever really lifted heavy? No. I've always been a cardio guy. If you just lifted heavy for six months,

you'd put on 20 pounds of muscle and you'd be a different human. It'd be awesome. I would love to see that. I would love to see it too. I just don't know how to start. How do you start? Just get up and go do it. What do you mean?

That's like anything. You go to the gym and you see people doing it the wrong way and you start doing push-ups man if you just just get going you know just go do push-ups make a little rocky workout for yourself in your basement nearby your fake background and my fake background we can sit there and and we'll zoom and do some do some dumbbell curls and get your biceps looking good man you could honestly you could just go there's no way to start you know it's like anything just do it but there's form right there's who cares who cares figure that out later figure that out later it's not like you're going to be lifting super heavy weight

right off the bat that you're going to hurt yourself sure do i need a coach do i need a trainer you don't but some people it definitely helps to have someone to kind of hold them accountable right what about diet that's the 99 of of it. Is it really? Well, you're not worried. You're not like a big old fat dude, but people, the majority of people, I would say the majority of people want to like, Hey, I just want to lose some fat and maybe gain some muscle. That's the majority of people. Well, you talk about a six pack, all that. First off, genetics is number one for that. And diets, 99%. Haven't you ever heard like you can't outrun a bad diet? It doesn't matter how much cardio you you do if you eat like garbage and you don't have elite genetics like some people have uh yeah you're gonna get fat how do you know i don't have elite genetics i'm saying you might

i don't know i'm saying just in general like right because oh well look at donald driver eats mcdonald's every morning i see him he has an eight pack yeah well that's donald driver that's not you buddy like you don't have those genetics how often do you work out i mean pretty much i do every day pretty much every day what do you do that's the thing you never know i change every morning like i get up and do it before my my kids and the whole house gets up and it's just a great time for me mentally it's where i get a review if i need to watch something i missed a game that was on the night before i need to see recaps during my cardio that's when i watch all that stuff and kind of do any kind of catch up that i need so you're one of those guys i can never understand those people you wake up 5 6 a.m

and work out yeah it's first thing i do yeah that's what time you wake up i'm in five between 5 and 5 20 how do you have the energy to do this in the morning i mean what do you like you just do it well there's i've never questioned it. I believe me. I think even as I get older, if I don't get to bed at a decent time, which a lot of times I don't, I just, for some reason, I'm just up and I don't fall asleep till after midnight. It's definitely harder for me to get up in the morning. I mean, I still do it, but it's harder. Right. And it was, and when there's games, right? Like the Sunday night game, hard to do it on a Monday, I would imagine. Yeah. But I never like think about it. Oh, it's Monday. it's Monday it's gonna be a tough one like I don't say that to myself when I go to bed

like I just do it um in terms of your actual playing days when were you your most fulfilled your happiest like was it was it Ohio State was it the NFL was it the Super Bowl season like which time in your life do you look back with the the fondest memories i mean i never that's a good question i never really thought about it like that it's like anything i wish i would have especially when i was young and in college i wish i would have looked around a little bit and realized how special it was like i had an awesome group of buddies i was playing with my linebacker buddies were still super tight to this day um the whole team we were just very close, especially –

I mean, my whole four years there, but I would say especially my senior year. My freshman year, we won the national championship. That was unbelievable, just such a lucky situation to step into, but I was so young and naive. I just assumed we were going to do it four straight years, and I never got back. But I think if I – I wish I would have taken some time to realize, I guess, how cool that was,

but I did like, we enjoyed the hell out of college and playing with each other. Like it was really fun doing everything. But I think when I look back, I'm like, wow, that was like, most people don't get that, that kind of, uh, that kind of experience in college to have life, find your lifelong friends there. And just, yeah, it was, it was awesome. But in the NFL, I had the same kind of thing though. I would say if you had to like look at a certain year yeah we've talked about it like that or my fifth year in the league we won the super bowl that year when we look at it and still talk with different like a lot of my teammates my wife about it like we had a special thing going we had a special group that we it's a whole cliche all that stuff that we hung out off the field and on the field like off the field we were super tight and we were a great mixture of a lot of good, like savvy vets.

And then a lot of good young players too, that were really high energy, fun people. We all got along very well. And for whatever reason that year, it all kind of came together off the field and on the field. And that's, I think a big reason we won the Superbowl. Why did you guys only win one? That's my question. I mean, we gave up too many points defensively. It was our fault. I say it all the time. Like, yeah, absolutely. Like, I got a Super Bowl.

Great. We should have had three or four. I was there. I was there nine years with Aaron Rodgers. And the dude is unbelievable. He's out of this world. So, yeah, I squarely put it on us as a defense. We gave up too many points.

We got knocked out of the playoffs a few times by Colin Kaepernick in the Niners. He just ran all over us, man. Is that something that you think about a lot? You have the one, so they can never take it away from you, but is it a regret that you've only gotten one? Some of those squads, I think when you guys won

the first Super Bowl, people thought, okay, this could be the beginning of something really special. Oh, yeah. Definitely should have. For whatever reason that we couldn't figure that part out. Yeah. Like the next year we went, we were 15 and one went and got beaten the playoffs after our bi-week just, we couldn't figure out a way to put it together. I don't know if I like regret all of that or that we didn't get more rings, I guess. Yeah. You could say it's regret, but I don't sit there and punch myself in the face every day about it and say like this is what what am I doing everything is you know like Mike Vrabel he's got three rings like I've

known Vrabel forever used to work out with him in the offseason he was an Ohio State guy and lived close to me before he coached in Tennessee but then Vrabel goes and hangs out with Brady and Brady's got what seven rings like doesn't matter what you have. Someone, anyone's could piss all over whatever you have money rings championships. I guess not Tom Brady. No one can really say anything to him, but it's all. So it's like, whatever. I try to look at that and like, you just gotta at least try to enjoy what you have. What's a greater thrill for a young man and a cooler experience winning a national championship

at the Ohio state university or a super bowl for the Packers. I mean, I can't even imagine like two iconic institutions, right? What, what produces the greater thrill for the young man? I think maybe just because I was older and could understand it more was super bowl. Um, I think I was 27. We won the super bowl when I, we won the national championship. I was 18. Maybe it just, maybe just turned 19 and didn't know.

Just all of a sudden showed up to campus and was on a team that went 14 and 0. It's just, it doesn't happen very often. So I just was kind of naive to all of it. But the Super Bowl, I think you, especially when we got, the year we won the Super Bowl, we had to win our last couple of games just to get into the playoffs. We snuck into the playoffs. We won three road games. And I think each game we won in the playoffs and you got closer, like, man, this is, I don't want to look too far ahead, man. We might,

we might be playing the super bowl. Like you try to not take yourself there, but you, you do. And then we finally got there and we won. Yeah. It's yeah. It was crazy. Definitely something I didn't never really thought about. Yeah. Like anything else. Like, of course, yeah, it was crazy. Definitely something I didn't, never really thought about. Yeah, like anything else. Of course, yeah, it's fantasy world. You're going to win a Super Bowl. So to actually do it in that moment, yeah, I was glad I sat there and I enjoyed it, at least for a little bit on the field.

Could you possibly put into words what it's like being a freshman winning a national championship at Ohio State? What are the parties like afterwards? You must be treated like a freaking king when you return. That's what I thought. We had to get back to school. Oh, come on. Yeah, we had to get back and get to class. Like what, what are the parties like afterwards? How are you? You must be treated like a freaking King when you return. That's what I thought we had to get back to school. Like I, yeah, we had to get back and get to class. So like I had to go to class every day. That's the thing too.

People always, Oh, you never went to class. Well, they used, that used to be the way back in the day. And then that got out, that got public and that gets ruined. And so they check your classes every single day. So no matter what, whether it benefits you or not, you got to be there because they have an assistant coaches come check on you. So I was in class every day. I went right back to class. I was also though, I was 19 at the time we were starting, like our, we started our winter workouts, maybe three or four weeks after that,

which are these brutal month long workouts that start right at 6.00 AM. And you just, they just annihilate you for 90 minutes straight, the whole team, it's this conditioning you do. So I was already like nervous about that and thinking that's coming up in three weeks. And I was, I was just 19 and meathead scared to get in trouble. Like I didn't really do much, honestly. I didn't, I didn't do it. Well, as I got older, I got more comfortable there, but I never, you know, I was never like the social butterfly or went out and ran around. I was always assumed that I get arrested and get kicked off the team.

Were you like, you, you just refer to yourself as a meathead. Were you a meathead in your younger days? Sure. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure I still am. What do you mean by like, were you a bully? No, not by meathead. I mean, dumb. I mean, someone that doesn't think like, and not all, there's a lot of smart meatheads and, uh, and those are some of my favorite people on the planet. But I don't know what I was thinking. I was, I honestly, I was like, I was living in the moment. Like I was there. I wasn't, I wasn't overanalyzing anything. And I don't really now either, but I really, I feel like, I don't know. I'm kind of glad I was like that. I hope you take this as a compliment, but you look like the kind of guy, and this is a great, please. I can't wait. I don't worry. You can't offend me. You look like the kind of guy who wore like the letterman jacket in high school the slick back hair you're a good

looking guy you're a built guy and you would just like you know knock the the the dweebs out of the way stuff them in lockers you had like the number you know your name on the back friday nights you're playing was that your high school experience i feel like that was you in high school i i think you like you couldn't get more opposite than who i was in high school i didn't i got i got my letterman coat and whatever it's still hanging in my parents closet never wore it once like no i don't i wasn't about like letting people trying to let people know what i was doing or who i was like i'm sure there's people that feel like i was rude to them or whatever but a lot of of it, if, if anything, anyone didn't think I was rude, it's because I was just super shy and still in situations. I'm like that where I don't know what to say.

So I just don't, I just don't talk to anybody or you don't talk to somebody. I don't know if you have that or not. I'm not like a person that's just gonna naturally walk in and the whole room lights up. Like I'm just bouncing around. That's not me. Like I I'll stick to whoever I know. I'm the kind of guy who walks into a room and I go in the corner and hope that no one talks to me. Are you that kind of guy as well? Well, I'm the kind of guy that hopes I don't have to go to the

event at all, but if I do go, yeah, probably that guy. But yeah, you're the guy who says yes to everything. It shows up to the signings and everything that must've been tough for you. How'd you break out of the shell? Oh, my my wife i met my wife my i've told people before i met her real briefly my sophomore year in college and then she was out in school out california and then i basically we reconnected my senior year and uh through some mutual friends and had a long distance relationship basically um for my senior year and she i think made me a human a little bit she helped she did the same thing yeah she did the same thing to her brother her brother's brady quinn yep he he

rented a house on campus going into his junior year i believe and she's one year older she stayed with him for three or four months in notre dame got a job at don pablo's all that stuff she was out there helping him out and i think a lot of people from that team even like thank her for bringing brady out of a shell like she would throw parties she would she's she knows him so well and she's like hey you can't just be this weirdo you're the quarterback you need to talk to like you need we need to host things and she did that for him and without even thinking about it i think yeah she kind of did that for me and we always hosted thanksgiving in green bay and christmas and she like likes being like the mother hen and I think a lot I realized like it's yeah that's helped me out a lot uh the the

infamous jersey that she wore when you played Notre Dame where is that jersey the half AJ Hawk half Brady Quinn jersey where is that jersey uh that jersey I think it's with my mother-in-law just down the road lives like a mile from me I think she's still she has someone put in a frame for her yeah we were i don't my wife and i had been she was my girlfriend at the time we'd only been together for three months and then oh my gosh yeah and she someone gave her that split jersey and we were so naive i'm like yeah what i don't know where she's like okay and then they showed her on camera multiple times and she was horrified because she doesn't want any part of public life like that. If I'm being honest, you guys were just dating three months.

If I'm Brady Quinn, I'm kind of pissed off that it's the split jersey. He was. I think he was. And they would ask me who she's rooting for. And she's like, oh, I told her, no, she should root for him. She should root for him. I told her at the time back then, like, she's known me for a little bit. She's known him her whole life.

She should be rooting for her brother and then i would say well obviously i know because they need the help too because we did end up beating them so it's an easy joke but um yeah we were like like i said too like what are the odds that we're gonna work out i don't want to be to bed and get a three months that happens they show her on camera whatever we got engaged a month after that and then married bam like it It happened quick. You got engaged four months into your relationship? Yeah. You don't want to do... I joke about it with her.

People should not follow our path. Normally, that's never going to work out. When you hear somebody... Well, your first thought, easily. I'd say this when I give speeches sometimes. I'd thank my wife. I know people were worried. They thought for sure.

Obviously, she was knocked up. That's why I got engaged so fast. She was not, she was not pregnant. Obviously I didn't just jump in there and say, Oh, she's pregnant. I have to marry her. It was, that wasn't the case. We never first kid till five years after we were married, but I knew I met her and I, maybe it's my dumb meathead brain, but I just, Oh yeah, that's it. I got, I got engaged. Didn't nobody knew. Nobody had any idea. I just gotten found a guy and got, got the ring for her and then got engaged. Nobody knew. Nobody had any idea. Just found a guy and got the ring for her and then got engaged. And we were in the car and my wife's like, well, did you call your parents? I'm like, no. And she said, we should call them. I said, why? What do you mean? They'll figure it

out or we'll tell them later. And she said, no, you need to call some people and tell them. So people were a bit surprised. Did you ask her parents for their permission? I did. I mean, her parents are the best ever and i yeah took her dad to um some mexican restaurant and ended up sat through the whole dinner and even he's the man his name's chopper he's infamous he's everybody chopper chopper quinn yeah he's the best yeah he's uh he's he's the man and he actually built my house and um sat through a whole thing this i was a senior in high school or senior in college at the time. Very awkward situation for me. I feel like to try to say, Oh, can I, can I have your daughter's hand in marriage? Like you don't say, I would never say

that. And we sat through the whole dinner, like an hour. And then we were walking out to the cars and then I found, I was like, Hey, a chopper. And I think I said, like, guys, what do you think if I marry Laura? And he's like, he just pulled me and gave me a big hug i think he had to have an idea like this is why he asked me to come here for something like this why'd you wait so long and were you i was scared i didn't know how to do it yeah i was freaking out the whole time i didn't know how to handle it i didn't what did you do when you asked here did you ask your father-in-law yeah yeah we went to a sushi restaurant but i did it like right off the bat because they obviously knew like why is ariel asking us to go to dinner right i mean so you just kind of get it out of the way.

Uh, I think I said, you know, I'm going to ask your daughter to marry. Is that okay with you guys? Something like that. I didn't say the hand in marriage thing. Yeah.

I'm not that old school. Yeah. I was just, yeah, I was just young and that's, I don't like those situations either. Like that's not fun for me. That,

that whole deal, you know, I, he's the best and I know I'm much better now, but yeah, like that's, I don't like those situations either. Like that's not fun for me that, that whole deal, even though I, he's the best and I know him much better now, but yeah, like that's, that's not my specialty. Now, just curious, why the rush? Why'd you do it so young? Why not? I mean, I, I guess looking back now, yeah, there's, it's not a recipe for success for most people. Like we didn't really know each other that well when we got engaged and Bam got married and all of this uh

but yeah i i i don't know i told her like i never thought about being married in my life ever and then i met her and then i was like yeah okay i'm gonna get married so i did and how long did you wait to tell your parents well we ended up calling her we called the car right there we we jumped in the car and we're going somewhere and we called them right there i think they were they were probably excited they're everyone was probably more confused no question but it's i'm very very lucky because yeah i'm it's weird yeah i'm obsessed with her and i get more obsessed with her the older we get so i think i tell her i'm like i'm just telling you like there's no way this should have worked out but this did somehow we figured it out we found each other i don't know how i don't know if there's a soulmate thing, whatever that is, but I know

there's no other human on the planet that this would have worked with. And by the way, was it legit a point of contention between you and Brady that you wore the split Jersey? Like, was he actually mad about it? No, I didn't see. I'd met Brady two weeks before we played him in the game. I never knew. I never knew him.

I knew of him, But he was back for Christmas break and I was back for Christmas break for a couple of days during bowl practice. And I like went to their family Christmas and the Christmas Eve thing. And then we went around and went to one of their uncle's houses, this little party or whatever. And then I saw him, maybe we played on Saturday. If we put on saturday i probably saw him wednesday that week my wife girlfriend at the time picked me and brady up and took us to like subway and we went and got lunch he kind of talked a little bit and he was cool obviously when she when she first told him hey i'm kind of talking to this guy and said all right he's like oh cool

well what's what loser is it this time or something? He's a younger brother, actually, on her. And she told him, and of course, he was mad off the bat. Don't go out with a football player. What are you doing? And I said, he's right. I would tell you not to go out with a football player either, but who knows? Maybe we'll get along. And I knew he's awesome. He's the show, and by the way, I asked my producer to make you as red as possible, but it doesn't look like. But for the record, for the record, that was on him. I don't mean to be that guy. What do you mean, how? They patched it through the studio. I've done this show a gazillion times now, like this show and other stuff from here, the Zoom stuff. No one's ever looked red. How is it possible that he's the one?

Like, you think that I did that on purpose? That was on them, and they don't want to own up to it possible that he's the one, like you think that I did that on purpose? That was on them and they don't want to own up to it. But he was legit mad, right? Could you, I don't know. I thought it was awesome. He was talking about it. He was, he brought it up.

He's like, oh yeah, he's saying how red he is. And then he popped up a screenshot. I was like, oh boy, that is very red. Yes. Is that something you guys could have fixed in post? No, it was on them. They ran it through their system.

Had he just done it from like a normal setup at home i love this situation i love that there's no you know there's oh man this is the ultimate like everyone has their side of the story by the way you know we're on the outs now we were best friends oh what happened now i put him on my wall you saw that yeah of course well on monday i ripped it up i said he's dead to me why what do you do because first of all i realized that he's just opportunistic he's not really actually my friend he's not looking out for my best interest number one my bills lose to the colts and i'm going to ask you about them in a second he he rubs it in

a friend is like hey man you'll get him next time he rubs it in oh you know that's him come on now you know it gets worse i know we're at survivor know that's coming. Oh, it gets worse. I know. I can't wait. Then we're at Survivor Series in Brooklyn. We're literally 10 feet away from each other. He sees me, doesn't come say hello. Wait, this is the one that just happened. Barkley Center? Yeah, Sunday. Oh, I didn't know.

Okay. I was right there. This is awesome. Keep going. I love this. Keep going. My kids are there. He sees me.

He's hobnobbing with all the celebs in the front row because he didn't call the whole card. I see him going around. He's got his little gold chain, his you know tank top thingy the glasses by the way stole my entire look wearing the glasses the pencil at the desk like legit ripped off my entire gimmick and the guy doesn't even come hello come say hello to me i'm all flustered and so i said you know what that's not a friend he's literally 10 feet away from me and he doesn't come and say hello so So we're done.

I took him off the wall. I ripped it up. It's over. Did he know you were there? Yeah. I texted him, you suck, bro. And he goes,

ha ha, I see you. And that was it. Was he saying like, I see you like figuratively? No, I see you there. Or I see you like you're right there. I'm staring at you now and I'm not coming over.

Everyone knows I was there. I was the biggest celebrity. Everybody knows I was there. Who all was biggest celebrity. Everybody knows I was there. Who all was there? Was there like some big time people hanging out? Kieran Culkin was there. He's great. Succession.

Can I just say, I know Kieran Culkin as Fuller from Home Alone. I had no idea he's in this hit show on HBO called Succession. I had no idea. Everyone's freaking out about him being there. I had no idea. So apparently you are aware. People like him. Yeah, I watched the show.

People like him on that show. I think those actors on the show, if you ever watch, they're really, really good. Yeah. So anyway, Patrick, I said I never – The good son, right? Remember the good son? The good son. I have to say, I was really weirded out by it.

You started throwing fake dead bodies over passes, didn't you? It was weird. It was weird. Like these Kevin McAllister and all of a sudden he's killing people. Yeah. I'm with you. It was a good movie though weird. Like these Kevin McAllister and all of a sudden he's killing people. Yeah. I'm with you. It was a good movie though. I think it was a career mistake on his part.

By Macaulay. Yeah. It was. You got to change the, you got to change the narrative though. You know how they all like, okay, this guy was the,

the, the nice family person. And they want to put, they're going to play a pedophile in some weird series that nobody sees. And they think it helps change their career. Yeah. It didn't really work out. Uh, I really liked my girl. You remember my girl? Oh, it helps change their career. Yeah. It didn't really work out. Uh,

I really liked my girl. You remember my girl? Oh, it's a great movie. Yeah. When he dies. Very sad. I legit cried as a kid.

I would probably cry as an adult if I watched it. Right. Right. It was sad with the bees. The kids, you know, kids. Yeah.

Don't do it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, anyway, I don't know how we got on that. Oh, Patrick.

Yes. And, uh, Patrick told me that, and I don't believe this, but I want to ask you, you have never had a concussion in your career? Nope, nothing. How is that possible?

Nothing documented. So I think that's another thing. I'm very lucky genetically for whatever reason. However, my head, nose, jaw, I mean, my nose has been, my two older brothers, my middle brother was a quarterback two years older than me. Same thing. Like our helmets, we'd wear them them big and they come down and blast our nose our whole life so we had like bruised nose like my brother's nose was bruised for probably 10 years straight like just a straight bruise here um i don't know if that toughened it up or something

helped us out i don't know i've been lucky man don't know i don't like mouthpieces i don't agree with those and um i never won school i wore one up until my sophomore, after my sophomore year of college, I stopped wearing them and it was the best decision ever made. Why? Just, it felt so good. It felt you're free. I could speak and communicate. I could breathe. And I don't, you know, I have, I have issues on the effectiveness of how they prevent or help prevent concussions. So you would advise youngsters not to wear them? No, I tell them to wear them to protect your teeth. I think they should just to protect the teeth.

They should definitely do it. And if you get some secondary protection, you think it'll help with concussions. Great. Then I'm all for it. But yeah, I know my kids, I want them to wear mouthpiece. The worst injury you've ever had? Oh boy. I don't, I mean, I, I don't, I mean i don't i mean i've had i've had plenty of

surgeries but they're always in the off season um i mean i tore my pec didn't have to have surgery for that one came back toward in the first preseason game came back with first regular season game that was tough to come back from um i mean i've had a million knee scopes i have no cartilage in my knee for a long time i haven't and then tore my pcl in high school um i mean i my fingers i mean i can't even my fingers become a thing on the show with pat these are all some of them are messed up i had i had my ring my left ring finger was flopping sideways during a game um i took my glove off could barely get it off and i realized like yeah this thing is there's no ligament or something in here so buddy taped it for the rest of that year and then after that had to uh they go and they take a ligament out of your wrist that you don't use and then they pinned it in my finger to be a new one

that one was was weird but now like the big one of the bigger things i had was right after right after we won the super bowl i knew i my wrist was messed up i knew i did it early in the year and and didn't uh just didn't tell anybody cause I knew they tried to put me on IR. So I wore a cast on it every game in practice. And then the day after the super bowl had to lay down, hung over and get an MRI on my wrist with my arm straight over my head, laying on my stomach face down. It was the worst hour. It was rough. I sweated through everything, but yeah, tore this, these ligaments and whatever in my wrist. And so there was a long surgery where they go and then they screw and then they pin and you wear a cast for two or three months and you take it off and you try to get some mobility. That was like one of the bigger ones that I dealt

with. Cause then we got locked out, had the surgery two or three days after the Superbowl and I wasn't completely really healthy until probably 10 days before camp. Why'd you have to do it so soon after winning? Like why'd you have to go the next day? Cause I knew it was going to be hard to get back. I needed, it was, it was a long recovery. So I wanted to make sure I got it done right away.

Do you get a pension? Yeah. Yeah, I will. We have, we have pretty good benefits, man. Um,

I mean, I don't plan on taking it till I'm 65, but yeah. So the reason I asked that is, uh, obviously I cover MMA and I think, uh, a big issue is the fact that there is no union,

there's no fighters association. You're an MMA fan. The fact that these guys, obviously it's a little different. Obviously the whole structure is different. But the fact that you'll have a guy who, let's say, fought in the UFC for 10 years, like pick a cutoff, right? 10 years, 9 years, 8 years, and they get nothing. They don't even get a tweet.

They don't even get a thank you for your services, let alone benefits, let alone pension. Doesn't that blow you away? It is crazy, especially how big the sport is. But when I think about fighters trying to create a union, it seems impossible to me. They're all over the world. And the only way to, I feel like, make a change or get them to listen is if you sit out of fights. Like if Conor is scheduled to fight and all of a sudden 10 minutes, he's like, no, I'm good, man. I'm out. And you like boycott fights. Like that's the only way. And who's ever going to do that? That'd be dumb for fighters. So I don't know. Do you have an answer? How do they create a union that actually works? Yeah. I mean, again, the structure is different.

They need some sort of collective bargaining. I mean, the fact that they get no money from the TV deal, the cage is littered with ads. They're wearing stuff that they're not even getting a cut of. Is the Reebok deal up? The Reebok deal is up. It's a new deal now, Venom, which they get money from, but it's not significant.

Was that a colossal mistake the reebok deal i think so they'll tell you know because they made a lot of money off of it but the ufc i guess it's not for the fighters i feel like for reebok it had to be a bad deal for them well uh it brought a lot of bad pr on them because people were blaming them see they paid the ufc and the ufc then decided how it got broken down, right? In reality, what happened was people blamed Reebok for the distribution when the truth is the UFC were the ones. But it always got deflected on Reebok, Reebok. So they'll have like a guy like Arjun Buller who's of Indian descent.

He wanted to walk out with a turban. UFC said, no, we have a uniform policy. You can't walk out. Reebok got blamed for that. I can bet my life that if this got to Reebok, they would have been like, yeah, of course you can walk out with the turban, right? But they got the blame when in reality, it was the UFC who said no to him. And so it stripped away all personality. You know, that's what I love about the fight game, right? Everyone's different. They're unique. They're colorful. They're larger than life. Now they all look the same. I hate it. And they'll say like,

oh, we want us to be like the NFL. We don't want it to be like nascar and all that stuff well first of all you guys got paid a hell of a lot more and second of all you you know you probably you could get paid to wear cleats gloves whatever these guys have nothing they can't they can't make any extra income so it's a big problem the argument i understand the argument from the ufc like hey we need to look you we look we need to look professional and they feel like if you got condom depot fake tattooed on your back that they don't feel like that okay fine meanwhile they've got trojan on the on the the mat oh i'm not i'm not defending i'm saying i understand their position saying we want to look more professional but there's got to be a better way to go about it like there has to be a way where

you can let the fighter still like sell part of your your walkout gear. I don't know. There's got to be something. How long have you been a fan? For, oh, man. I don't know, 15, 20 years. I guess I've been watching more over the last 10 than I did before. Who are your favorite guys right now? Who are the guys or females who you're like,

oh, I've got to watch them if they're fighting this weekend? Shevchenko. I just listened to Halle Berry on a podcast talk about her movie with Shevchenko. I mean, Shevchenko, she's not even human to me. She's like a robot. Like how unbelievably, how she just annihilates people. She's fun.

I mean, I'm a fan of a lot of the favorites. I mean, Francis Ngannou scares me to death just that he's a human walking around. I love him. Stipe, I'm an Ohio guy. I've always been Stipe, too. What's he up to? What's his future look like? I actually just spoke to him yesterday on my show.

Thanks for checking it out. Same time, man. You're going to the same time. Same time. That's on you guys. I mean, we're killing you in the ratings, if I'm being honest. We got to move. Stipe is, well, he just had a kid, his second kid,

and he's a little bit perturbed. He didn't like that they didn't ask him to be in that interim title fight back in August. And now there's a title fight happening in January. So he wants to wait and see and see if he can get the winner. I don't know if he's going to get the winner of that. He also said he'd be interested in fighting Jon Jones in his heavyweight debut. I saw it. That was from your show.

I saw it. That was from my show. Good. I saw that, Eric. My bad for not giving you credit for that no it's okay uh but he's in a bit of uh a weird spot right now a little you know because he's fought in all these title fights and people now think he just sits and waits but it's not really quite like you know he had the kid and he had an injury situation all yes yes yes yeah i well actually you know what got me into it even deeper was uh remember

uh clinch gear. Yeah. I had a, I had like a marketing deal with clinch. Oh, I remember that. An apparel deal. And I used to go, I went out and was, I went to the expo, the fan expo and did, I had like a booth there and then went to the fights. It was awesome. Um, but through that, I met Dan Henderson and got to hang out with Dan a little bit.

And Dan's just, what a beauty as they say, like that guy, man, he was, he was great. He hung out with chopper, my father-in-law and I, and that's, I guess that, yeah, being around Dan a little bit made me even like want to, you know, look in and watch more. And I actually did it. I did an MMA show on serious for probably two years with RJ Clifford. Who's unbelievable. He's just, he's an awesome guy. Did you enjoy doing that? Loved it. Yeah. I did it. Uh, usually once a week, I did it twice a week for a while too with him. And it was awesome because I don't watch a whole lot of other sports. Like I watched

the NFL, I watched Ohio state in college. I watched college football too, not as much as the NFL, but I watched it. And then I watched fighting. I watched MMA usually. Um, and now some of the, you know, the Jake paul brothers boxing of course i'm interested in those as well especially when you're on the call ariel thank you that's very nice of you are you doing you're doing another one right uh i mean this is a little bit off the record hopefully no one listens to this but yes i am doing the the one in december nfl player former nfl star frank gore how do you feel about that going up against Darren Williams? I love him.

I don't know when the show's coming on. I know you want it to be evergreen, but yeah, we had Frank on yesterday talking about it. Frank is awesome. He is, there's no joke. Frank is about the business, about working hard, and he wants to win this fight. So I think Frank should look great in this.

I know Darren Williams has some MMA background. So is it Jake Paul fighting? It's Jake Paul against Tommy Fury, the half-brother of Tyson Fury. How's that going to go, man? He didn't look like I thought he was when I watched him fight. Tommy? Yeah. Yeah, he fought a guy named Anthony Taylor who, honestly, he should have starched.

I mean, he's a 145er. I thought he was going to. Yeah, it was weird. It was a little bit weird. Also, it was weird. It was a little bit weird. Also, it was weird. The fight was scheduled originally for eight rounds and six rounds,

and then they moved it to four the day before the weigh-ins because they said the British Boxing Commission didn't feel like Tommy had enough experience to go more than four rounds. Meanwhile, Jake went eight rounds

against Tyron Woodley, a former UFC champion, so it felt like they were protecting him. Also, I was like, wait, why does the British Boxing Commission have any say in a fight that's going on in Cleveland? The whole thing was a former UFC champion. So it felt like they were protecting him. Also, I was like, wait, why does the British Boxing Commission have any say in a fight that's going on in Cleveland?

The whole thing was a little bit weird. He's obviously the best boxer that he fought because he's a legitimate boxer, but I don't see any reason why Jake Paul can't win this fight. I think Jake Paul's a lot better than people give him credit for. He has legitimate skills for a guy who's 4-0. He's not Canelo, but I think this is a very close fight.

I think the line should be fairly even in this. Do you think it gets the same amount of buzz? Does Tommy Fury bring the kind of attention they need? In the UK, yes. He's a huge star. He was on a reality show called Love Island. And obviously, he's got a ton of Instagram, like over 5 million or something

like that, if memory serves me correct. He comes from a very famous family, right? His brother, half brother is Tyson Fury. His dad is very famous over there, John Fury. I don't think it will generate the same buzz as the Woodley fight or even Askren only because the MMA community paid more attention. Like I think the MMA media covered those fights more than the boxing media because of Woodley and Askren and who they are in our sport. Fury isn't respected like they are in MMA. He's not respected like that in boxing.

So I don't know if it will have the same impact, but I think come December 18th, people will be into it. I think the Frank Gore thing is interesting. I know it upsets some people, but I'd rather see Frank Gore fight a Darren Williams than fight a bot like there was a guy named johnny morton the former kansas city chief his brother was a coach in green bay that was a remember that he got carted out of the ring yes yes and he fought a fighter a guy who wasn't like a pro profile but like a guy who had more experience than him that's dangerous this to me feels fair

because they both have the same amount of experience. So I'm okay with it. Yeah, and it's going to be like, oh, football versus basketball. Who's tougher? That's how people are going to take it. Right. Have you met those guys, Jake and Logan? Because they're both from Ohio.

You know, I had, when I was doing my podcast, I had Logan on, I don't know how many years. It was years ago. And then, like, the last 15 minutes, Jake popped on. Jake was like a kid. Wow. And Jake popped on, and he like a kid and jake popped on and he's like oh oh what's up man how you doing and he said oh yeah well i'm uh i actually just

booked this show i'm on this i'm like oh what's it called he said bazaard vark and it was a bazaard vark show on nickelodeon my kids watched it and jake i don't he had a he had a short i don't know a couple years on there before then all of a sudden bam he's all over the place but yeah it was funny to see but i think they i i became aware of logan paul through vine one of my teammates brad jones was talking about him and showing me these videos he puts on vine where he would run and do crazy stuff and like put his wrestling singlet on and go in the grocery store and do it but all i was like i'm not yeah sure funny whatever this dude's athletic like he'd be jumping doing these weird moves i'm like i all i saw was that the dude's very like he'd be jumping doing these weird moves i'm

like i all i saw was that the dude's very athletic and i heard he's he's a decent wrestler wasn't he in high school yep yep would you ever do one of those fights no man i don't i don't want to get i don't want to get hit i don't want to get hit in the face and it's so tough like i've done i've like just very little like i've trained a little bit like mma boxing all of that and like even just thinking about sparring is like terrifying like i'm just not i just if i'm getting in a fight i'm getting in a fight like i can't stand and box i gotta use everything i have we gotta go to the ground like i can't stand there and box anybody i'm definitely not taking on anybody in mma either because i was just gonna say it sounds like you want an mma fight i was training with this dude uh here that

used to fight like underground circuit in columbus where they're like spitting blood and do like at people and throwing cans of beer in the octagon and he was awesome the dude weighed like 180 and we would we would roll around and stuff and when the dude would get on top of me like i was like this is the most terrifying situation ever like i if i couldn't overpower them they could just sit there and blast me in the face and kill me i just thought i cannot imagine i was i'm 240 pounds almost i would never want to fight anyone anywhere near my weight yes um and that's why i have a lot of credit for the you know give those guys a lot of credit and have a lot of respect for them i think you would do well by the way if you've never had a concussion no cte right you you haven't

dealt with that no concussion i think though I think we all have a number, a certain number, where I feel like, and I don't want to test that number. I have a feeling. I just know from having my kids, especially my boys have hard heads. My youngest, he's head-butted me a few times in the temple where I'm like, all right, I don't think I have it anymore. I don't think I have that.

I don't have that rock head anymore. Are you down with your kids playing football? Yeah, my third grader played uh tackle this year for the first time um first year that they made it available and I didn't push him into it I didn't I I assumed he was going to play flag football again but then he became aware that you could play tackle in third and it's like yeah man you you can if you want to do it do it and I was an assistant coach I know the head coach well I played with him at Ohio State and I just want to be aware i just want to i'm definitely aware of like head stuff i get scared in practice and games if a kid falls and if they've hit the back

of their head on the ground that one always scares me so i'm i'm definitely very aware of it my wife's even pointed out to me a few times i'm watching games we're walking through and watching games on tv i'm like oh my god this guy's dead like i i react to the big shots even like head shots i can kind of i feel like if you play i can watch a game and know if a guy's dinged up if he's not if that that shot hurt him or not sometimes it's not the biggest hits it's just where and how it looks and i'm very aware of that my son plays and i always will be and and that's something I worry about it, man. I don't think we should be killing each other in practice.

That's for sure in third grade. So you won't deter them from following in your footsteps, but you're not going to push them in that direction. No, I'm not pushing them in any direction. They like doing what they do. Each kid's different and they like sports right now. But I'm coaching. My son wanted me to, he asked me to be an assistant.

So it was, I'm, I'm, I don't love coaching. I'm not a good coach, but I love coaching my kids and my kids teams. That's fun for me. I'm coaching fifth grade girls basketball right now. That is no joke. We just had, I'm so proud of these girls, man. We just had like this invitation. We played four games in a row for like half games.

And my, like, they probably hate us so bad the team my team was so physical so like every loose ball these girls were awesome like they annihilated people like they get frustrated and go and yeah dude like it was it was fun to watch man we have practice tonight and i'm excited to pump them up and let them know like hey that's a great start like if we continue and they took care of each other that's what i love they took like one girl they felt like this girl was getting their founder they're reaching they're doing this up three other girls coming in we'll try to knock those girls off of them and help them out and so my good as long as we we play hard and we take care of our teammates we can figure everything else out do these girls

know who you are they know i'm the daughter i'm the dad of they don't know that you're a super bowl champion all this stuff they have no idea i don't think so no that's amazing that's incredible by the way i can't believe you never made a pro bowl that has to bother you no i mean i guess technically i got paid for a pro bowl or super bowl year i got one of the alternates i guess i got in yeah it's it was i mean you need to go early for sure. You need to get voted in early in your career to kind of, then it's a thing. But I never really thought about it too much. And then I saw how big of a deal it was to some guys

that they didn't make it. And I was kind of confused by it. But yeah, I mean, of course, it would be cool to be, oh, 10-time Pro Bowl. It's kind of different now too, though. Like it's always, I don't know. Now it's almost like you can't play the game like there's no you can't half-ass football there's no half speed football so just don't even have

the game anymore so before i let you go and thank you so much for the time and and what a what an evolution to our friendship aj i mean we we started off as buds i was on your podcast then we had the bitter feud i remember when espn banned me from the show not just me but everyone but let's be honest like you know the fans really cared about me the most like you that was the first thing you said right you were like legit concerned that i couldn't come back on the show right i remember that when patrick tried to blindside me and call me and get me in trouble you were legit concerned i could see the concern on your face espn banned you though they didn't ban me they banned everyone why it was crazy i couldn't believe it. I got a call saying, you can't go on this show.

Well, here's the truth. You can't do any show or can't do that show? When I got to ESPN, if I'm being honest, they told me I couldn't do any media without clearing it with them first. That's how it is. I know I have multiple ESPN people that I try to get on my podcast, and some of them were scheduled, and they backed out the day before before like, Hey, I'm sorry. I said something to whoever, and I just can't do it. I'm like, real, real. Okay. So I was told this first couple of times I brought things to their attention. Now, like, you know, I'm happy to be there. Dream gig ESPN. I don't really like feeling restricted, feeling like I'm being

censored or whatever. Also, a lot of people were very kind to me on my way up, and now all of a sudden I can't go on Mr. X's show. I don't want to say names, but you know what I'm saying? That doesn't seem very fair, and it doesn't seem like a really nice thing to do. And so the first couple times I said, all right, I'm going to ask, they said

no. The remaining two and a half years i just never asked however did you hear stuff after a couple times who did you clear this with oh yeah you know i'm i'm kind of a uh forgiveness kind of guy oh yeah over there just pointing someone out billy told me it was cool but i did get a call that friday i think it was saying you can no longer appear on the show. And I was heartbroken. I love coming on the show.

And by the way, if it was Mr. X's show, I would have been heartbroken as well because I don't think that that's right. And so it became a whole thing. Again, I should have known back then Patrick wasn't a real friend. He calls me, blindsides me, but I could tell you really cared

and you were really concerned about my well-being. Even when I left ESPN, I could tell that you really cared. So I appreciate it. Thank you for that hey of course you're you're um i don't understand you and dana and what happened and what's going on with you guys but you know what i you know i like your work man it's good i think you're you're the the aerial that i've seen last year and a half two years the this the the creature you have become is awesome it's amazing and i think it's fun and i think it's fun and i

think it's i yeah i love looking at people and you know i've told you this like man i would love to see you are you in the basement uh spare bedroom where yeah i'd love to see you come popping out after a show when you're wearing a luchador mask and you're just going crazy and you know your wife's got soup on and making soup for the little kids and the kids are doing their homework. I like that thing. I think like, oh, Dad, you still got your mask on? Oh, sorry, kids. Oh, how was school today?

That's what I enjoy. I had a parent who's at my kid's school say to me, I was going through your Instagram and I saw you wearing like a wrestling mask and they don't know – like I don't talk about my job or anything. They're like, what? And then we watched it together as a family and it was the appearance after Aaron Rodgers. And they were like,

you were like, oh my God, I feel so embarrassed right now. You know, he'll want me, it's a thing. So anyway, I really do appreciate you guys because you bring out a different side of me and you've given me the confidence to, for whatever reason, I don't know what happened,

like to just kind of be myself because that is actually more like me than the suit and tie guy. But that's a whole different story for a different day. Could we end on this before I let you go? Cause I've taken up way too much of your time. This is going to come out the night before Thanksgiving and why I'm leaving this to the end is because I want this to always be evergreen. But hey, Jay, I'm very concerned right now about my Buffalo Bills uh they've got a game thursday night against the saints and i'm worried that worse things are going to happen i had high hopes i really thought this was going to be the year i don't have high hopes anymore what is wrong

with the buffalo bills please tell me i don't know what's wrong honestly i the whole nfl is crazy i feel like this year but what's going on with Bills and not scoring points like we thought they should and defense not showing up at times for sure, I don't know what's wrong with them. But I definitely still would have some faith in them because you know Josh Allen could play at an elite level. He has that. He definitely can do it. He's done it at times this year. He just hasn't done it consistently like we know he can, and I think their coach is good. I think he's really good. Do you like him? Well, there's a lot of people calling for his head. Why?

He doesn't call the offensive plays. Brian Dayball, and I feel like he's been very lackluster this year. He's the most important thing for that offense. It's whoever's calling those plays, for sure, but I feel like the head coach, though, the culture there seems great. I don't know.

I love Micah Hyde. I play with Micah in Green Bay. I still talk with him. He is one of the most impressive humans I've been around. And he seems to act like everything, like all the culture is awesome there. I don't know. I always feel like all these teams that should be, they're going to turn around.

I feel like, okay, if the Bucs stumble once, their Bucs will be fine. If you have a quarterback that's somewhat of a vet and he's done it i'm like i think you'd be all right this isn't a stumble they got beat down by the colts and okay fine they're they're okay you lose to jacksonville on the road i mean that's a scary one yeah it was was that six to three yes it's so hard to not score points like that. Or nine to six, something ridiculous like that. It's really hard to hold a team to under like 17. So for that to happen to the bills too, with the firepower they have. Yeah. I don't, I don't know what they need to get it going, but I wish, I mean, these coaches,

nobody really knows the coaches are waiting. These coaches probably stay up 23 hours a day. They're all on the verge of a heart attack because they know like every single second matters. And if I don't get this figured out, everybody's gone. Right. I feel like the O-line has been disappointing. I feel like the lack of running game has been disappointing. The whole thing has been very disappointing. Do you feel, can you tell me right now they're going to be in the Super Bowl? Are you confident? I wish, I wish I could. I don't, but you know what? I can't say

that it definitely won't be in the Super Bowl. I can't say there's no chance. All that has to happen. The NFL is such a, you know how we overreact to everything and every game. One week, they're the greatest team ever. Next week, they're terrible, and you've got to fire everybody. That's how the NFL is. So let's say the Bills go on a little run,

and they win four or five in a row. Then we're like, okay, cool. Bills are going to Super Bowl, guys. That's all they've got to do. Is Aaron Rodgers playing in Green Bay next year? I so i don't know what do you think yes or no what do you think you know i don't know if he knows like does he know does like i don't know i i don't i it's the whole situation has been weird because i don't like i don't pry with him to know anything but i don't like i just don't understand the situation i don't know what's

gonna happen i really don't like i do think green don't know what's going to happen. I really don't. Like, I do think green Bay is definitely has a chance to get to the Superbowl and win it. Like they are that good. He is that good. If they can somehow deal with some of the injuries they've had recently. But I don't know if he's in green, but I, I really hope he's in green, but I think it would, I don't know what other situation looks better for him. Well, this has been a blast. I don't know what situation is looks better for him. Well, this has been a blast.

I don't know what situation is better than this right here. Hawk and Helwani. Look at us, man. Look at us both with a book background. How big is that TV behind you? 72 inches. It's got to be pretty damn big. Yeah.

How about yours? It's a drop-down cloth, man. Come on now. Why did you choose books? I don't know. I mean, trust me. I've tried a few others they just didn't fit different i actually have different um bookshelves that i've gotten before like

different form different books some books that are turned the other way uh i don't know this one just i put it up and it fit in this frame you know like when he popped up on facetime for the show it fit i'm like okay cool i don't have to mess with it every day here we go dare i say the two most famous fake book bookshelves on the internet right now us and jeffrey tubin wow okay i'm not sure what his background was yeah i know i know i'll keep coming back to it you won't acknowledge tubin did you i don't know what to say is he a syracuse guy that you worked on or something no he did great work on the oj trial but that's pretty everybody everybody loves a comeback right and that dude's back on tv isn't he i think so so look if are you like a big jeffrey tubin guy i mean it feels like no but when okay if people don't know jeffrey tubin do you want to let him know what happened to him well uh he was caught

uh you know pleasuring himself on zoom right is that yes and i'm like in a business meeting right yeah yeah yeah yeah of course he was like a business zoom i mean multiple participants and his camera and i assume audio was on so i just don't understand how you get to that point to where he's like okay i'm out of zoom maybe if i turn my camera off and sit directly in front of it how are you not paranoid hey and just go to town on himself. When did he know? Do you know when he learned that? When did he learn, like, hey, this is for everyone?

I think someone mentioned it on the thing from what I recall. Yeah, yeah, Jeffrey, put that thing away, buddy. Like, what do you say? There was also a politician in Canada who was on a very important meeting, politician, and was walking around the city, came back home from a run, didn't realize his camera was on, and important meeting politician and was walking around city came back home from a run didn't realize his camera was on and just got completely naked and was walking around that's impossible that's embarrassed like that's embarrassing maybe but that's nothing compared to tubing like that's like oh man how do i know the camera's on like you know like either way not fun but you got to be aware that hey you, you're probably always on camera. That's what you probably should just assume, right?

Yes. Bike hot. That's a big one. Always. Who? The mic. Always believe that the mic is hot. That's like one of my biggest fears in life, that someone hears me saying something.

Not like something, you know, racist or defamatory. Look at this douchebag. No, like, you know, like something internal. I don't know. You just never want that to happen. And then, of course, the camera. I have to say, I expected us to talk a little bills a little mma a little aaron rogers patrick i didn't expect so much jeffrey tubin talk in this conversation but that's

the beauty of these things like i said everybody loves a comeback that if that dude can get back on air and look people in the face you can get through anything i think it's an inspirational story yeah and just like when you uh resurrect your, it'll be the same. Tie it all together. I need to. I need to have you on as a guest. Now that you're not with ESPN, you can come on. I could come on. I could have come on before, but yes, no restrictions. Independent Heelwani. AJ, I really appreciate your time. Continued success to you. I'm a huge fan of the show, obviously, even though Patrick's dead to me. If you ever asked me on, I'd be happy to come on.

I know you got to go. Cause you got to go talk now for two hours. I probably tired you out here at this point. I'm going to go pump some iron. And in six months, we'll look back on this conversation as the beginning of my transformation. I can't wait,

man. Do some pull-ups. Pull-ups are great. Pull-ups are like squats for your upper body. They're great. Do pull-ups every day, man. Get some wings.

You just get some wings. You can just flex on them when you get up there to interview dudes after fights. Okay. Thank you, AJ. I appreciate it. Thanks, man. See you, man. All right.

That was great stuff. AJ Hawk, what a guy. What a mensch. What a story. What a come up. And what a life after football. Much respect to him. Check him out on the Patrick McAfee show

each and every day, Monday through Friday. They go head to head with the MA hour, but that's okay. Friends, well, he's a friend, Patrick, not a friend. Sort of stabbed me in the back. That's a different story for a different day. I addressed that on Monday's episode of the MA hour. I hope you all enjoyed the conversation.

The train continues to roll along. Please do continue to support, download, subscribe, follow, review, all that stuff, not just here on the podcast feeds, but also on our YouTube channel, youtube.com slash Ariel Hawani, where you can get all these interviews in video format. I appreciate you all very much. Thanks to our production team. Thank you to the lovely feathers. Thank you to Manscaped for sponsoring today's episode. And in the spirit of Thanksgiving, thanks to allcaped for sponsoring today's episode. And in the spirit of Thanksgiving, thanks to all of you for your continued support. What a crazy year it has been.

What a crazy few months it has been. A tale of two years for me, and I could not be happier and or more thankful for the spot that I'm in and for your continued support. Not just this year, not just the last few months, but since the beginning of this crazy ride. So much love. Happy Thanksgiving if you're celebrating it. Happy holidays. Happy Hanukkah. Merry Christmas. Kwanzaa. Anything that you're celebrating, if you're not celebrating anything at all, happy Wednesday or Thursday or Friday, whatever day it may be. I love you all. I appreciate you all more than you know, and I'll talk to you next week. Have a great weekend. Thanks for listening. Thank you.