The Ariel Helwani Show - Alex Pereira vs. Ciryl Gane stoppage: Wrong call? UFC White House numbers, covering Conor McGregor, more | The Craic

Episode Date: June 19, 2026

The Craic trio of Petesy Carroll, Chuck Mindenhall, and Ben Fowlkes delve into the controversy surrounding Ciryl Gane’s finish of Alex Pereira at the White House. Did referee  Herb Dean make the right call and how does this latest situation affect Gane (06:10)?  Next up, they give their takes on UFC White House generating 17 million viewers and whether it will be seen as a success (31:31). Petesy then explains the Irish reaction to Conor McGregor’s appearance on Jimmy Fallon, which appears to have sparked outrage on the Emerald Isle (47:57). Finally, the Craic crew give their takes on Tyson Fury promoter Frank Warren revealing more reasons why Dana White will likely end up promoting the Fury’s fight against Anthony Joshua (1:17:37). 

The crack is back, ladies and gentlemen, how are all you crackheads doing on this wonderful Friday? Very rainy here in beautiful Dublin. I hope wherever you are, it's beautiful and sunny. However, that's not the topic of discussion for today. Of course, there is lots of things to discuss in the wonderful and wild world of combat sports. What's top of the agenda, you ask? Well, I'll tell you, it's Alex Pereira and his head and Herb Dean and his... analysis of a head with stripes down ahead, and Andy Foster saying, what you can do with a head

in an M.A contest. That's what we're going to talk about first. Then we're going to move on to the greatly estimated and forecasted numbers from the UFC White House event. We finally got those beautiful numbers last night, and we will be discussing them on this show. We're also going to talk about the Conover-Gregor interviews and the fallout from them. and perhaps the expectation of Irish people versus the expectation of combat sports fans. What way do we cover Conn Regger in 2026? And of course, that's not all we've got, guys. We do have the hilarious banter section towards the end and superchats.

But before that, we're going to talk about Tyson Fury. That's right. Remember that guy who walked down the steps at the White House and everyone was like, what is this for? And then we just didn't find out what it was for. We're finding out what it was for now. We're close to securing that knowledge and we will discuss that at length to a degree. You know what I mean?

We don't have these four and a half hour shows everyone else has. It's tight, it's concise on the crack. But before I bring in my beautiful co-hosts, let me tell you about the guys over at Calci. This episode is sponsored by Calci, the largest prediction market in the United States. Here's what makes Calci different. You are not playing against the house. Calci is peer-to-peer trading, you buy yes or no contracts on whether something will happen and you're trading directly against other users.

Think of it like buying or selling a stock. The line isn't set by some algorithm working against you. Public opinion sets the price. Calci is CFTC approved, federally regulated, which is why it's available across the country, including California and Texas. Excuse me. Download the Calci app and use the code crack that C-R-A-I-C-E-I-C. to get $10 off when you trade $10. Kalshi, K-A-L-S-H-I, Kalshi, trade what's next? Now, with that said, and with that word for our beautiful partners over at Kalshi,

let me bring in Chuck Mendenhall and Ben, folks, lads, you know, it's just like a warm blanket after I do all that stuff up the top when you guys come in and I can stop talking. How are you, Chuck? We're all tucked in, Pizzi, feeling comfortable, you know. It's good. It's good to be back. I'm glad to be back with you guys at my normal location and not in Washington, D.C. You know what I mean? So this feels more at home for me. I felt very a stranger in a strange land out there. In your beautiful hotel room? Is that where you felt strange? No. I mean, I'll be honest, Chuck, we didn't think you're going to make it back. We were over your second bet. I was like, are you trading on Calci like, oh, this guy is not coming back. Chuck is going to say or do the wrong thing, and he's going to be in the Fontama Bay by the. the end of the week. You did say this. For sure, there's no way it could possibly go well.

I'm glad to see that you made it back. And you know what? Brought us a lot of local color from our nation's capital. We all appreciate you. I only saw maybe two or three people being stuffed into like unmarked vehicles and being whisked the way. And I wasn't one of them. So we'll take that as a victory, you know? You know, you got popcorn.

What were you able to accomplish as far as the reflecting pool? Did you drop by there and help out at all? All as I saw was the Just Bleed guy, just standing over it like El Tall through the afternoon chat. It was nice. It was cool, man. You would have liked that. As a guy who worked a summer during college as a pool man, I really feel like I could

have helped out if I got the call. You know, I really, it's been a while since I used those skills. I'll be honest with you. But there was a time when I was quick with a skimmer could just like clean the bottom of that pool, get up out of there onto the next one, carrying big ass hoses over my shoulder and everything. I mean, you save some lives.

I don't think the reflection pool goes that deep, by the way. I think it's like, is it really his only knee deep? I want something like that. You saw the scene in Forrest Gump, right? That was what I found out. Yeah, same here.

I had assumed that it was pretty deep. And then that scene where Jenny comes running across the collecting pool. And I was like, wait a minute. She's only like up to her knees. What the hell is this? That's where I learned a lot of important American history, honestly.

I have a lot of strong feelings. about Jenny and I'm not going to get into them now because I get too emotional and I don't want to desecrate the memory of Jenny either. But I have very strong feelings and I think she was a wicked, wicked woman. Whoa, whoa. No, no, no, we're moving on.

No, we have to talk about Alex Pereira now, guys. Listen, I said what I said, okay? And I'm standing over it and now I'm moving on. She endured some shit, Peezy. Jenny broke that man heart and used him. Okay. Used him. Well, if you if you read the book, you found out that

he read the fucking book. He wasn't quite as used as you might have thought. Svara's Kump was a book, seriously? It was a book. It started as a book. In the book, he becomes, he has, he does a little time as a pro wrestler. In the book, he's also a little, like, he's also like a big ape. Like, you know, he, he's not like quite as like Tom Hanks charmingish. like he's like a big brute kind of guy but uh yeah no the book is is wild interesting

fuck you jenny anyway uh Alex Pereira guys was on Ariel Hawani show and I mean it's been the topic of much discussion and once again it is poor old Cyril gan in the old crosshairs because Alex Pereira feels he's been failed a few times let's have a listen to what he had to say when you watch the fight how many times do you think that you were hit illegally in the back of the head. What is your count? When you see the lot,

how times you think you took goals illegal in a nuke? Well, there's not to see the right. Well, many people see different things, right? But like I've even posted a video yesterday some people say it's nine,

some people say three, some people say six, some people say it's 11. Posted a video yesterday showing the marks on the back of my head. at least three or four, like he showed pictures. Because, you know, especially when you're talking about a heavy way fight,

okay, any way class that can count, but a heavy way, the damage is actually way more escalated because a heavy way fights more power, so it makes a lot of damage, those shots in the back of the head. I'm not going to ask you for your opinion on this just yet, lads, because we have many voices from within the combat space who have weighed in on such an issue. Here's what Herb Dean has said with a friend of his,

who he's drawn lines on the back of his head to help her understanding. The rule we're talking about is the back of the head, and that's confusing because it's different than boxing. And the way we enforce this rule is we focus on the nape of the neck, and that's really what the rule should be called. The nape of the neck or occipital junction also covers the spine, and it covers a line right here with one-inch variance to either side. So right here.

So this is what we go over in a rules meeting. I will let them know that this area is a file off limits, that this area is a fair blow. Here is a fair blow. Turn to the side so we can see it here. Here is a fair blow. Here is a file. The nape of the neck rule expertly described by Herb Dean.

But here's what Andy Foster had to say. I think Herb did exactly the right thing. I think a lot of them punches caught the ear. I thought they were, a lot of them were legal, probably some were not. But it was just, it's a fist fight. They're fighting each other. And we do have rules, but it was happening very quickly. And some of the movements that he was doing was, like, I think when he's aiming, like, he's moving too.

So it's causing some of the things, you know, it's causing some of these things to happen. And I talked to Herb about it, and I think Herb has looked at it in depth, and he's looked at a video, and he's going to probably try to do something that shows a little bit more cleaner about what exactly happened. But I don't think you can interrupt a sequence like that with that much action going on. Now, I should say, lads, Alex Pereira said he has no plans to appeal this. He does want to continue at heavyweight, and he wants his rematch. against Cyril Gan. But I guess the conversation we're having here is what should have happened in this circumstance? And we know, we've heard from Pereira, we've heard from Andy Foss, we've

heard from Herb Dean. Chuk, how did you feel when you saw this? And in the moment where you're thinking, that's a lot to the back of the head. And I'm aware you have discussed this with Ariel already. No, I mean, sitting among media in the media center for this card, there was a lot of people who were saying that. They're like, dude, is that the back of the head? And obviously, like, you're watching it in real time. And these, these, uh, these blows are coming. fast and furious. But what do they call? Okay, so he's got the two lines that kind of go up and that kind of continues the, you know, the elongation of the spine. But what about the top of the head? You know, like the top of the back of the head and that Friars bald patch right there.

Like, can, because that's honestly, when you go back and watch it, that's kind of where the elbow lands, right? Like, there's like an elbow or two, and I'm still unclear. It seems like it kind of falls into gray area to me. And I wish he would have kind of addressed that a little bit. but the truth of the matter is after watching it again, I thought it seemed, I side more with Herb than I do before. At first I was like, hey, dude,

if it's a foul, and I mean, even if you see it in an ending sequence where he's trying to put a guy away, if you see a blatant foul, we've seen it in the past where guys are doing that. And like, whoa, whoa, whoa,

whoa, whoa, that's a back of the head or they knee a guy when he's down in the face or something like that. We've seen this happen. So, you know, if it was totally egregious, which on second viewing,

I don't think it was as egregious as it seemed, he should have done that but in this in watching that again i i'd love to know how you guys feel i mean i was i was okay with it because it looked like maybe one like a couple of those shots are in the gray area there was a chook a bit here oh you still got me you got me oh we got you we got you we got you back sorry just that that last point shook were you saying um it seemed egregious but seeing it in the heat of the moment you're kind of more okay where herbs course of action on the night yeah in the end i i agree with herb for not stepping And a couple of the shots were in the gray area, but it wasn't blatant.

And like imagine standing over it. It didn't seem that blatant to me. Yeah, I mean, I think that is one of the things. When I went to the Combat Sports Official Summit in Las Vegas in January and we're sitting there listening to them talk about, especially this rule with each other, the point that they made over and over again was that there's a difference between, you know, you got a guy flattened out and you're just hammering the back of his head when he's laying their motionless. and you can clearly pick your target and you're hitting that target.

And a situation where we're both moving, you're trying to throw punches. As you're throwing the strikes, the target that you're throwing them at is moving. And so they give you a little more leeway on those typically just because they realize, like, you know, hey, it might land at the back of the head, but that might be because you moved your head between the time when he threw the strike and when it landed. And so they'll give you at least a little bit more wiggle room. The other question is, like, if we ask ourselves realistically, if we stop and picture that exact scenario that unfolded and ask what we want Herb to do there, because if he steps in at that moment where gone has dropped Alex Pereira and is clearly sensing that a finish is close, it's possible. And so he's pouring it on.

He's going all after him, like going all out trying to finish that fight. And we imagine, you know, an elbow to catches the back of the head, Herb steps in, calls time, stands on bolt up. sends them the neutral corners, warns Cyril gone, checks on Alex Pereira, you know, what, uh, somewhere around 45 seconds to 90 seconds typically elapses in those time periods, gives Alex Pereira a chance to recover to kind of catch his breath, to get his bearings, and then also probably going to restart him on the feet. That would be a significant intervention in that fight, especially from that moment, where it looked like Alex Pereira was in trouble and could be finished any second here.

To do that, to stand them up there, give that warning, take a point, even whatever, that is going to change the flow of that fight. And if Alex Pereira comes back and wins that, you know, maybe they restart it. He lands a bunch and knocks out Cyril Gahn. Then people are going to turn around and be like, Herb put his thumb on the scales in this fight.

And that's why I think that we got to have a little bit of grace for these referees. Because it's such a difficult job. Every single decision they make is a play at home. home plate in the bottom of the ninth. It can affect the entire outcome of the contest every single time. If you intervene, you know, it's like you're, you're a cameraman and a nature documentary where it's like, if you get involved when the lion's trying to take down a zebra, you have interfered. You, you have changed the natural course of what's going to happen there. And so like, I can understand why he opted to sit back. It'd be one thing if you had repeated shots over and over to the same spot on

the back of the head and then you'd be like okay you can't do that you obviously know that but it's like one hits the back of the head then the next one hits the side of the head and then the next one hits maybe the back of the head and then two more on the side like it's it's a very dynamic fluid situation and so i can understand why herb opted to like stay out of it there i tend to agree that i think if he had of intervened in the situation and you know Alex prairie gets this break this break after being dropped legally you know like the you He is hurt in a legal exchange. He's on the ground and he is moving, as Andy Foster says.

And it's the heat of the fray at that point. It's Cyril Gant smelling blood. I have an opportunity to finish this guy. I know Ariel asked Alex if he felt as though he was targeting that spot ahead, which is a very valid question. I don't feel he was. I just feel like he was like, let's get this guy out of here. And to Ben's point, if he intervenes and Alex Pereira,

a guy who we consider like, you know, won't up, well, we did in the lead up to that event, him and Ilya being these kind of dual-headed snake of the UFC's new superstardom. And he ends up winning the fight. That's a shitload more controversial than what actually played out here, Chuck, right? Yeah, I mean, if that happens, you know, you've got like such a, this is, this is a talking point for us. I don't really know how much of a talking point this is for other people. You know what I mean? I know that the media and certain within the bubble,

but people outside of it, I'm not hearing too many people go on about this. The truth is, I mean, we have seen this in the past, too, where guys take a couple, like,

you know, marginal-looking blows, and we don't ever revisit. It's just really that this was a marquee event. I think there was a lot of people, including, you know, people betting on this event and on down to just fans,

strictly fans, like I saw a ton of Pereira fans at that, at that fan fest, that just wanted him to win. You know, they just want him to win. So you're going to look at it through the lens of like, well, they should have given him a better chance to get there than they did. But that's kind of ridiculous in the heat of that moment. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Having a bit of disruption on Chuck there for the internet. But absolutely agree with what you're saying. I guess another element of this, Ben, is the fact that it's Cyril Gan. He's coming off this situation with Tom Aspinall. Tom Aspinall, who is genuinely very even-kill guy,

you know, has said things along with his father, along with a lot of people who got behind it, that, you know, he felt as though Gann was a chief. And then this situation occurs. And as Chuck mentioned, like, this is the biggest event maybe UFC have ever done in terms of intrigue over the course of a year, all building up to this event. The eyes of the world are on him.

We see Donald Trump talking to Macron the next day about this event and how special it was. What does this do to Cyrilgan? Do you think this amplifies a kind of a feeling that was already there around Cyrilgan and is it deserved? You know, it's very interesting to me. And I saw, I think, MMA Fighting's Jed Meshu point this out on Twitter, and it's worth considering that you'll compare the difference between who got blamed,

for the most part, by the most vocal contingent of faith. fans after the Cyril gone Tom Aspinall fight where people were complaining about Aspinall. People were looking at Tom Aspinall being like he found a way out of that fight. Dana White saying he chose not to continue. He got three stooges, both fingers, both eyes by Cyril Gond. And people were still ready to blame Tom Aspinall

more than they were Cyril Gond. Cyril Gond doesn't really face any sort of negative consequences from that. He turns right around and ends up in this interim heavyweight title fight on a big stage at this big event. And so it doesn't affect him at all. And then this one, he wins, dropping Alex Barrow with a legal shot, as you say, some questionable shots during the follow-up.

But then the finishing blows also completely legal. And we come away, people who are madder at Cyril gone for this one, then they seem to be for the Tom Aspinall one, where he ruined the entire fight against Tom Aspinall might have ruined, or at least temporarily derailed Tom Aspinall, Aspinall's career. He still hasn't been able to come back.

Like that was really serious. That was really unequivocally his fault, what he did. And then he took less criticism for that than he did for this one where it's sort of borderline. I don't know how much of that is that people just love Alex Pereira that much. And so he had a lot of fans coming into this and people really wanted to see him win. And so they're, you know, they'll glom onto anything as an excuse for why he lost. and maybe some of it is just that there's a cumulative effect for Sirle Khan that you do this in two consecutive fights

and people have gone back, you've seen it on Twitter, people are posting clips showing previous fights where Cyril Gan looked like he might have bent a rule or two and you put it all together and you come away going, he's a dirty fighter. You know, this guy, this is a problem for him over and over again. We see it in these two straight heavyweight title fights.

it's a brand that sort of when people stick that on you and they say this guy's a dirty fighter, that could be tough to get off, man. That has followed people around for a while. And, you know, we see other people who manage to always find a way to muddle a line between legal and illegal who never really take any sort of heat for it. And so, but it seems like once people decide to label you that way, I mean, like, this guy's a dirty fighter, then they're looking for for anything you might. do that can help support that thesis. You know, I think that that could be a little bit of a problem for Silgan, which is ironic because personally and everything, he seems like such a nice guy. He does. His name is literally nice guy. He's the nice guy. He's the nice guy, right?

Hang on. Hang on. Chuck, before I get your thoughts, if you're watching on the Yahoo Sports Network, we'll be right back. If you're watching on YouTube, stay right there. Chook, tell me. Sorry. I'm the Segway King, abruptly stopping Ben to be like, we're going to an ad. All great points, but tell me, how do you feel about Gan? Because, you know, Ben has a good point. John Jones pointed this out. We have footage of Tom Asmel's father before he goes, yeah. That's the kettle.

We have footage of Tom Asimel's father, Andy, saying to Jason Herzog, watch the back of the head. We have Plinyo describing how they had a long, lengthy conversation. with Herb Dean about the back of their head. Where does Cyril Gahn go from this? And how do you think he's going to be refereed the next time he goes out there? In some ways, this is the least egregious thing that he's been accused of like Ben is saying. I'm like, it's a crazy thing. I will say this.

Alex Pereira is doing the exact smart thing, right? Like he's going out there saying, like, I was affected by this. He's pointing it out without saying I'm going to protest it in any official manner. I am just going to talk about it because when you look at the landscape of heavyweight, especially, why not be lobbying for that redo right away, right? Like, that's affected you and let's put myself in position, especially with this looming situation now with Tom Aspinall and all this going on with Eddie Hearn and all of this stuff.

It's the smart play. And I wondered as it was happening, because he seemed to be very gracious in defeat at first, right? Like, he seemed like he was handling it. And he's like, you know what? You don't do this unless you're a warrior and I had to go do it. Now he's coming up with this. It's a smart play.

He's thinking of a big picture. and we'll see if it pans out for him. I feel like there's almost enough of that kind of ground swell that Ben was pointing out where I could see him being ushered back in. They love him that much the UFC does. So I could see a scenario where we're talking about part two of this one before you ever get the Aspinall part two. That's an insane situation to be dealing with really Tom Aspinall.

Seems to be, I'm ready to go. Let's get the date done. Hang on, we've got unfinished business between Alex Ferrer and Cyril Gant. happen. You weighed out there, undisputed champion. Speaking of undisputed champions, I believe Kalshi have some markets in this exact thing, guys. I know Ben's been looking for this. There you have it. Who will be the heavyweight champion on December 31st, 2026? And it looks to me, guys. I mean, my eyesight's not that great. But it looks to me. It looks to me like Tom Aspinel's leading the pack there with 52% followed by Cyril Gan at 33%. Waldo Cortez-a-Cost and not getting

a lot of trading going on the name. And there's happy to be on the list. Happy to be on the list, guys. He is the curousel of the heavyweight division. But shouldn't Tom Aspinall be the natural choice here? Because there's a narrative set up for you right there. This is one of the reasons why I thought maybe you should have had Tom Aspinall in attendance at the event. So you could do a thing and help set it up.

Might have made more sense to have him there. then it made to have Tyson Fury walk out in a sport coat with no shirt on underneath. That's the segment at the end, Ben. Okay? The list was made and it was sent to you this morning in a very early hour so you can prepare yourself for this. This is what's known as foreshadowing. That's what I'm doing right now. I'm just teasing a little bit about how we might talk about Tyson Fury walking out there

and then being like, I ain't saying nothing. So, but like right now with Tom Aspinall, you have this thing where it's like, He and Cyril Ghan, unfinished business. Cyril Gond gets the interim title, gets it with, again, some questionable tactics that people are mad about. Tom Aspinall has a chance to go on here and be like, hey, look at this cheating ass guy who comes out here. He did it to me, almost ruined my career.

He did it to Alex Pereira. He's unfairly walking around with a title he doesn't deserve because of this stuff. And now, not only do I want to beat him for the sake of my own legacy and career success. I'm mad at the guy. I want to destroy this man. He is evil and I want to bring him down and I am like the righteous fist of justice. You do all that and their rematch ends up being a huge fight. It's the heavyweight title fight. You can even get people to forget how easily Cyrilgan was beaten by John Jones. You talk about baddest man on the planet. You got two big dudes who both look good getting off the bus. They each have a belt over their shoulder. You throw them in there

together with this personal like we really hate each other want to destroy each other kind of vibe that should be just fight promotion 101 man that's the easiest thing in the world to do and it just seems like the UFC is not thinking even a little bit down the road here well let's just make sure he's getting at least 250th of the 15th right like it's a 125th right that's what we want nothing but fair look we're kind of poking around that this situation between Eddie Hearn and Dana White. Like, I don't, I don't, Chuck, I don't think that Dana White wants, if he can make Pereira v. Gant too, why the fuck would he give Tom Aspinel that position, given a situation where

Eddie Hearn? And I hate that it is like that, but we know it is like that. Like, we know it could potentially go that way. That's my fear in this situation. I mean, do you really want to get into this? You want to wait until the segment, because it's like a, you know, I know the segment is more of a Frank Warren Dana Hoyt,

Eddie hearing situation. As opposed to so plot. The biggest sub-tweet of this whole thing was Tyson Fury walking out there and Aspenol's not like isn't it? No, you're right. It's just like there's nothing that could be more insulting

than that to your heavyweight champion. Like we have this guy who's we're going to smuggle into the country because we can now. You know, we're going to bring him in and he's going to make the walk with no real reason. Just another to be there. And we're not going to Tom Aspinall, the guy who is the lineal, I guess, champion, or what would you consider him?

He's just, he's the heavyweight champion. Undisputed heavyweight champion. Okay, undisputed heavyweight champion. He can't be there, though. He's not invited. That's, the whole optic is crazy, right? It is, it's especially crazy if the thing that you're mad about is his choice of manager and what that manager is saying, like, and how it affects a larger beef that you have outside of the UFC.

that to me is I know there's no rules to anything anymore and people get to say and do absolutely everything they want and there's no consequence for anything. I want you to prove this later bit. I want you to prove that later. We just don't live in that world anymore where there are rules. But it is extremely shitty if you are telling a guy your career opportunities will be limited if you just choose a manager who I don't personally like. because the UFC has gone with this approach to fighter management where anybody can be a fighter manager. It's not like the NFL where there are like things you have to prove that you could do. You don't have to take a test.

You don't have to have any sort of qualifications. You don't have to have any specific education or any sort of background. If you say, that's my manager, the guy who's standing over there who is just like the lawyer from my gym, which is how it happened for a lot of guys for many years, fine. That's your manager. If you say my dad, my brother, that's my manager, my mom. We've seen all those kinds of things happen. The UFC says, okay, that's your manager.

If you say, this former FBI informant, that's my manager. They say, all right, great. And so if that's going to be the way it works, that anybody can be a manager, it's up to you to choose it. And the UFC works with your manager, then I don't see how you can turn around and be like, we will not work with a heavyweight champion or we will freeze him out because he chose a manager who is talking shit and we don't like it. Like that, if that's the way it works, then this is ridiculous. And it really highlights it if you're saying that's the way it works for your heavyweight champion. Oh, yeah.

If you guys have a beef, especially it shouldn't really matter that much. Let everybody say what they're going to say in public. Have him deal with Hunter Campbell if you need to. It's not like that situation hasn't happened before with other fighters in the UFC. It's just crazy to me that you're saying like, hey, we don't really care that much. you're the heavyweight champion and that this is a very promotable and potentially very profitable fight for us and one that makes sense that the fans want to see that has this unfinished business angle and we want to see a conclusion to it and you're going to be like eh we're pissed off at

your manager and therefore we're pissed off at you so maybe not let's if you are forced to make a prediction who do you think fights cyrilgan next i'd say i'd say aspinall but it's just because of, I mean, what we're identifying, like, you have an interim fight. And we have seen this go wonk before, but, like, you have that interim fight because you're trying to make it to the champion, right? Like, you're trying to unify these things. That's, it's all designed to do this. If they don't go with, I mean, this heavyweight division is already, like, nine steps

off of the original line. It was trying to walk, right? So if they, if they did that, it would just, I don't know, I feel like the whole thing would feel like a shambles to me. Like, the whole heavyweight division, you'd be like, dude, this is, you can't get, like, You know, the whole John Jones and Ghanu, all of the things that have gone on, and now you don't go back to Aspinall when it's set up for you. You know, it would be like, what are we doing here at this point?

So I think it has to be Aspinall. Yeah, that is, I mean, especially if you look at some recent history, right? And we go, all right, you had the lineal MMA heavyweight champion Francis and Ganoo, and you lost him because you couldn't find a way to work with him. And then you pick up the pieces after that. You go through this period of John Jones, once. to jump in for a little while and then retire before we can make the big fights for him. But then you get Tom Aspinall, kind of a gift, right?

Like a guy who has an exciting fighting style, big guy looks the part, talks the part. People are ready to get excited about him. And then kind of through no fault of his own, gets fouled out for a while, gets a manager you don't like, and now you can't work with him. Like, how many heavyweight champs, good heavyweights do you think are out there that you can go through like this? It's ridiculous at a certain point. We just, at some point, it's like, you know,

somebody is always telling you about how they keep running into crazy people everywhere they go. Oh, you wouldn't believe this crazy encounter I had at the store. Crazy encounter I had at the... You're talking about me, aren't you, Ben? You're talking to me right now. That's what's happening here. At some point, we have to look at the common denominator.

That's all I'm saying. And if you keep running into a bunch of assholes every day, some point you've got to consider that the asshole is the man in the mirror. That's right. And the reflection pool. Yep. Well, listen, lads, listen, lads. We need to move on.

We have so much disgust, as I've said previously. I hope you're about Roy. I hope they go with Aspinall. We were all, we're all getting very excited. We're like, oh, we're going to get the numbers. And before we got the numbers, we got this amazing teaser.

It's on the lawn of the White House. And it is one of the most watched sporting events in the history of the world. Yeah. I don't know what the total, overall views are as of now, but I know that it was like well over, I think it was 150 million just by, just by Monday. Unbelievable.

Just by Monday. So that's like the night of and then people that watched the replay that weren't there when the fight took place because they heard about it. But now between now and between then and now, now we're dealing with Tuesday. Like it's probably another 50 or 60 million people. Well, the email, the email came a few hours later. UFC Freedom 250 reaches 17 million total viewers in US and Latin America on Paramount Plus. The biggest live exclusive event on Paramount Plus history delivers 8.2 million average viewers across unprecedented seven bouts, seven bouts, 7 bouts, 7 bouts, Latin America, 1.2 million.

US 7 million Latin America 1.2 million viewers reach 17 million US 15.26 million Latin America 1.6 million. And there we have it

a beautiful graphic. 70 million. Thank you to Oscar Loweiss. Sorry, thank you to Oscar Willis for sharing that out so we could read it. But it was a bit off. I'm worried that by Sunday

it's going to be in the thousands, guys. Like this is one of those things. Like when I first heard somebody speculating on numbers, it was Rubio, who said, one billion worldwide would be watching. There's still time.

There's still time. And that number then after the event became 150 million, which were like, okay, that still seems excessive. And then you get the actual number at 17 million,

which seems very realistic and also very good. You know, if we're being, like the only reason it seems like a disappointment is because others were throwing out

those crazy ass numbers. You know what I mean? Like, that's a very respectable number. It blows away anything they've done on Paramount Plus. And I guess you wait to see since it was designated for this,

right, as Paramount Plus. exclusive what the subscriptions are. That might actually end up being the bigger number to follow in the end for the UFC. Yeah, that's the thing, right? Because clearly we could all tell in advance, you didn't organize this event around getting the biggest possible audience you could. Because if you were going to do that, you would have put it on CBS.

It would have been a no-brainer. Put it on CBS. Make it available to absolutely everybody. It would have fit better with the narrative that this is a gift. to the American people, which is something they said more than once in the lead-up and on the broadcast

and we were like, well, is it still a gift if it costs me $8.99 to subscribe. But if you wanted the biggest possible audience, like when we compare to these other events, the Super Bowl isn't on a streaming service. You know, the World Cup final isn't on a streaming service.

It's on network TV. Not yet. And so the, like, if you wanted to do that, if you wanted to see what's the biggest possible audience we could get, that you would have put it on CBS. especially since all you did put on CBS on Sunday night were reruns of marshals and tracker.

All right. So it's not like you were doing something else. Did we talk about it? Why didn't they? Why didn't they do that? Because the goal was not the biggest possible audience. The goal was paramount plus subscribers. And that's going to be, I think, the most telling stat if we ever get anything on that,

that how many new signups did you get? Because clearly that's what you wanted out of this. And you can understand why they wanted it. They're paying the UFC a billion dollars a year. and they're like, we would like to start making some of that money back, please. And so if you have this thing, we were like, a bunch of people, there's a curiosity element there. It's been built up so much in the media. A lot of people who are not fight fans, I've heard of it and are probably wondering what it's going to be like.

Let's put it on our subscription service and see how many people we can get and be like, all right, I'll sign up. I got to give this thing a try. And you know how it is? Once you sign up for the thing, maybe you'll forget to cancel it. Maybe you'll just discover that you actually love Tulsa King or something, you know? Or like, you'll be like, I'll watch old episodes of South Park. Landman. Great discoveries all.

Agree to disagree. But the idea is once you get them in the door, then maybe they stick around and that's how you build this streaming business. You build this streaming platform, which right now is outside the top five biggest streaming services. And so, like, I understand the thinking there, but also we have to understand when they were out here talking about Super Bowl numbers, they had to know. there's absolutely no way you get close to that if you're going to also do this where it's only on Paramount Plus. And so it seemed to me like just an obvious blunder to go out here and set for yourself a bar that you know you're not going to meet. Because you're right, Chuck, like these are good numbers. If you just take them like in the context of Sunday night event, rain delay so that the thing doesn't even start until 9 p.m. Eastern on a Sunday night.

You know, that's not Saturday. And I ask people got to work in the morning, man. They're going like, all right, I'm still sticking with this thing to watch it. On a streaming service that only has 79 million, I mean, Netflix has 325 million. So like when you compare it to the MVP MMA show, it's a much bigger platform. And it was in a better time slot. It was also on, you're on at the tail end of a weekend that's a big weekend in sports tournament. It's an opening weekend of the World Cup final.

It's the day after the NBA finals wraps up. It's the same day. but later in the day that the NHL Stanley Cup finals wraps up. It's like the last sports offering of the weekend. You got all these things kind of working against you. And so there's still be able to pull a number like this is really good. And if you just hadn't been so hyperbolic about over promising in terms of the numbers, it would look really good.

Instead, like you you set this mark for yourself that makes it look bad by comparison. And for what? I don't understand what they thought the upside of that was. That feels like a bad, like, misfired by them. And the sense of, like, being hyperbolic is not something that's foreign to them. But, like, they're usually big picture enough to know when to do that. But this seems like you're only setting yourself up because you're setting yourself up for failure. And this absolutely should be, should not be viewed as a failure.

You know, one thing that you could just, I mean, it's blown away anything that the UFC has done so far on Paramount Plus, obviously. But, like, if you were to say, we're going to, transpose, we're going to put UFC White House, card on Netflix. What do you think these numbers would have been then? You know what I'm saying? It's obvious. The thing is that's already built. That's got $325 million. As Ben said, it's like, that's already built. You're trying to build the other thing and even come close. I mean, honestly, to even get in the range of MVP, given those discrepancies, I mean, that seems to me like a slam dunk in the end. I mean, they didn't, the numbers are very, very close, you know, like to each other in the end. So to me, the UFC shouldn't, there's no reason to hang your head on

this. It's just straight up like why they had to promote it like it was going to be a billion people or the Super Bowl numbers, all that stuff. That's the only problem. Now, before we move on with this conversation, if you are watching us on the Yahoo Sports Network, we'll be right back. If you're watching on YouTube, stay right here. Thank you very much. Right. So I guess the question is, um, this is a success, as we said. If they had, weren't so outrageous with the estimates that they had, how many people they viewed. Um, possibly people would be reacting to it, even better than they are, but it is unmitigated success. My question is, lads, we all watch this event and we were watching out and we're going, there's elements of this that would add so much to the, you know, the big events they do, the PLEs, whatever they call them these days, the numbered events, the live music, just the abstract location, just not in an arena. Is there any way, Chuck, that Paramount would look at this and see the success it's been and being like, any chance we could

do a bit more of this, but it doesn't need to be a White House, but could we fucking do something a bit more wild than just an arena every time? Because I'd fucking like to see that. I mean, maybe, but like when you hear Dana White, when they're talking about the $60 million that they put forth to do this and that we're taking a bath on this one, you know,

and all this stuff for the president. I mean, even in the aftermath, and I have no idea. Like, in the end, you're like, did they really you know, take a huge loss on this or did they find the ways to kind of like pay for it in the end? But, dude, being around the UFC all week and the people involved, it was a Herculean effort, man, for them to put

this on. So if they, I mean, doing stuff at like, you know, the white, building that whole structure at the White House and then planning that festival and everything that went into that, I think is we will never see that again. I don't think you'll ever see anything that ambitious again. But I could see scenarios where they're like, hey, anything out of the norm that we can actually trumpet as something other than just your usual UFC, right? Like, would appeal to to them because I do think that I did I mean I my gauge is always the crudest gauge which is like how many people do you hear from that really don't pay attention to the sport and I felt like I had a huge number of those people talking about this this event this last weekend so um yes I think

the broader you can make the appeal yeah I think that that will always interest them um is a wishful thinking on my part here Ben are the boys not going to do shit they're just going to say no I mean I don't know if it like the thing to me that stuff like this and stuff like this and stuff like the sphere event always reminds me of is that the UFC has a great live event production team. And when you challenge them to do something, they always rise to that occasion and they pull off something amazing. Especially this one, this would have been really, really easy to screw up. Yeah. And one of the biggest surprises for me was how crass this didn't look when it came time to the actual broadcast.

And it really could have. and people were afraid that it was going to. Because when you saw that structure go up on the White House lawn, and a lot of people were looking at it and being like, wow, this is, this looks like the county fair has come to town. That's what it did. This looks like you're about to put the sizzler up there,

you know, and people are going to be like vomiting off the side of a roller coaster on the White House lawn. And it kind of just looked like, oh, man, what are we about to witness? They did have those retro guys like zooming around on the bike. They did. That didn't help.

That didn't help the overall impression. I wanted them all over the cage. during the main event, not a hope. I mean, come on. But then it's like when you actually saw it, like how it came off on TV, uh, the, the, the Marine band added a lot of class, honestly, a lot of class. They were, they were the, the surprising breakout star of this for me. But like, you know, even like the walkouts, everything that we're doing there,

it came across as like way more understated and borderline classy than I expected it to. And I never expected to hear myself say those words. And so it's like... You're expecting Apollo Creed to come down and like to do the... Yeah. Living in America. Whatever fucking amazing. You're expecting to just be like over the top.

Like Las Vegas has come to the White House lawn and vomited all over the thing. And instead like you felt like, okay, like they really did something cool with this and it would have been so easy to screw up. And so I do think it came for me as a reminder where you're like, they can do cool stuff. Yeah. If you give them more of a chance. Now, I don't think it has to be we move out of the arena model in order to do that. I think you could do a lot more cool stuff in a arena.

We see people do it all the time. True. Other fighting of other fight promotions, other fight events and other countries, they do cool shit all the time. I've seen a KSW event where a woman in a giant spider costume was lowered from the ceiling as she sang a fighter's walkout music. So there's there's stuff you can do that's more fun and more interesting. It's just that they don't really seem interested in doing it most of the time. And it's very telling that we come right off this big White House event, huge spectacle. And what are we doing the very next weekend when we're trying to hold on to these new Paramount Plus subscribers we picked up?

Back to the apex, baby. Let's go. And you're just like, oh, man, you have an opportunity here to really hold on to these people. Maybe you still will because you've got a big event coming up in July. But still, it's like this shows they could do more interesting things if you just, give them a chance and push them to do it a little bit. Did it strike you guys at any point where you're like, how did we light here that where the UFC is telling us

as the narrators of American history, like through these little vignettes, like the UFC of all people are the ones like, we're going to tell the story of America. And they never did get to, never did get to John Brown. They never did get to him. I don't, the vignettes for me really added nothing.

I didn't, I don't, I don't, I went out of tea like during the vignettes. I'm not going to light tea. I was like, all right. Well, I see. But here's the thing. I would understand if the vignettes turned out to be not that interesting to you, P.C., because as like, if you told me, hey, the non-Americans do not care of the UFC's retailing of American history. More flyovers, less narrative.

More nitro notes. The flyovers is one of those parts where I do wonder about, hey, didn't we say no taxpayer dollars were going to that? I don't know who paid for the jet fuel all that. I was fucking fired up, dude. When the flyover happened, I was, me and me and Dana, White shared a mind for that moment. I was just like, holy fuck. And I looked at day and he was thinking exactly the same thing.

Yeah, he was. He was. His face was funny, man. Fast jets go zoom. That was the face that he was making. And so I get, but the vignettes thing, though, it just seemed like, it seemed very vague. And like, you, you kind of have, like, a rough idea of what you're trying to communicate with it.

And also just the sheer A-I-ness of it. I know I've made this point several times. I'm not AI. Pizzi, at one point, they showed a shot, they're showing like great moments in American history to show our like pioneering and venturing spirit. And there's a shot, presumably it's supposed to be Lewis and Clark in Saka Jua. And Pizzi, I don't know if you know this, but they were tasked, the Lewis and Clark expedition was tasked with exploring the American West after, you know, the Louisiana purchase. Get out there. Find out what's out there. Map us a route. to the sea. Let's explore our own country, that kind of a thing. And what you see in the,

the AI moment of this is just the three of them. There's a three person expedition, apparently, on foot. The three of them are just walking and they walk into a stream without, you know, I don't have you ever walked into a stream, but they're just like walking, walk and walking, now we're in the stream. No change has come over our physical presence at all. And one of them is just looking at what appears to be like a map. And he never looks up from the map as he walks into the stream. And you're like, first of all, what is it a map of? Because that was the whole point of sending you guys out there is that we didn't have a map of this stuff.

And we want you to make one. Second of all, it's just like the entire thing, it felt like watching video game characters glitch. We are just like, well, none of this seems like what human beings would do. And it also doesn't seem at all in line with the actual history of what you're trying to, like, convey to us. and that's where I get mad at the AI stuff because it's like if you had had to get human beings to go out there film this stuff at some point in the process

somebody would have been like hey guys wait a minute this doesn't make any damn sense I think what they're saying these are the days before GPS is all they were saying like it's like we didn't have GPS yet somebody at some point in that process would have been like this is dumb we should do something else

we should change this somehow And with its AI, we're just like one person, be, beep, beep, boob. And then that comes out and they go, good enough, slap it in there. And it's just like, why bother if that was what we're going to do with it? That's all I know. AI is a better steak sauce than it is as a, you know, American history. Speaking of big fights in July, don't worry about that segue. You're in best segue you've had all, all episode, honestly.

All season, since we started this thing. Carter McGregor did a number of media appearances, and it is not. sitting well with the Irish people. Jimmy Fallon in particular is under fire, according to many headlines about the Connor McGregor of interview he had. Much of the frustration seems to be coming from Ireland, of course, November 2024. One of the biggest stories of the year in Ireland was McGregor losing his civil sexual assault case to Nikita Han who claimed he had raped her in a Dublin hotel in 2018. I mean, this is huge over here. A lot of people very, very up upset about it. We even have DJs, Louise McSherry, very, very well-known DJ. She's sharing out

the complaint link to NBC to get people to bombard it. And honestly, I've been taken away, taken back by how many people have been posting about this. And a great tweet here from Andy Stevenson who covers the Irish scene better than anyone in the world as far as I'm concerned. Here's what he says. From reaction I've seen so far, Connemagher's return is being entirely embraced as business as usual in America. Irish reaction is complete bewilderment that he faces zero pushback acknowledgement of losing a civil case

in which he was accused of rape. That is an Irish view of the situation, of course. It is much nor nuance in that McGregor will have his supporters in Ireland, be it far less than he did at the height of his power. And he is, I would say, the most controversial figure in the country.

I think he is open to criticism more than any athlete we have ever had. And there is a lot of disgust on line with this. I even saw it myself. I had an article about Connor, his return, about people kind of embracing him so quickly. You know, people straight away, he's on Ari Loani's show where he's speaking about his regrets, speaking about his dark times, all as far as I words, like code words for the situation he was in with this case. A lot of people just seeing him there being like, he's back, he can feel this energy from the fans. In my opinion, there is a huge amount of fans,

and maybe this is a blind spot for a lot of Irish people, there is a huge appetite among young fans of this sport who came in during the pandemic, who've only had those McGregor events with Porreux and Abu Dhabi, which weren't quite the ones we remember from the heyday with tens of thousands of 10,000 Irish people coming over for the Mendez fight for the Aldo fight. Like, they want those moments.

They want the one-punch knockouts, the one-liners. And there's a great appetite to see this in the UFC, which we say all the time is lacking superstars. But that is massively contrast. to Ireland where McGregor, as I said already, he discuss an awful lot of people. I mentioned my article.

I had people telling me, you know, you are trying to groom this man's reputation speaking about like that, which definitely wasn't the intention or the thing that I was trying to do with the article. But I guess I want to have a conversation about how we cover Connor McGregor and really are Irish people expecting

way more than they should have from Jimmy Fallon, Ben? Yeah, well, Jimmy Fallon in particular, I feel I do want to know, have Irish people seen this show before? Right. Because it's not. I don't know if we have it. It's not Charlie Rose, you know, it's not like 60 minutes, or at least what 60 minutes used to be. It's more like, hey, grab a tambourine.

Let's play some music, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the thing we've seen about Jimmy Fallon is still do that for anybody. Anybody they book on that show. He's going to be just excited to meet them. He's not going to ask like probing, hard-hitting questions. But it is, it's a thing, you know, we were all talking about this in our scintillating group chat, the three of us this week. You want to talk about some hilarious.

It's sarcastic. It's my favorite. I can't believe this, Ben. The thing is, it's going to be tricky for all of us to know how to cover Connor McGregor right now because he comes back and it's going to be a huge event. We know that. And so it's like going to bring a lot more attention when we're covering it. And yet it also comes with a lot more baggage than it used to. And it's only gotten tougher.

And it's only gotten more complicated to find a way to talk about. We used to go through this with Mike Tyson. I remember whenever I'd write anything on Mike Tyson and people would be like, why didn't you mention that he is a convicted rapist? And you'd be like, okay, I understand what you're saying. But you're also like, do I have to mention it every? single time I write about Mike Tyson or at a certain point, do we assume the audience knows this about Mike Tyson? And also, like, to what extent do I have to, do you just like, the first

paragraph, you're like, Mike Tyson, former heavyweight champion and convicted rapist was in Las Vegas today. Like, it's, it's weird to know how to handle that. And with Conn McGregor, it's also going to be a weird thing. And it's, it puts us in a strange situation as sports writers and and sports media people that I don't know if we always know exactly what to do with it. Because on one hand, hey, the whole reason anybody cares to read about this guy or hear us talk about this guy is because of his work as a professional fighter. That's what we're talking about when it comes up.

Here he comes. He's going to fight again. That's what the big story is. All this other stuff is stuff he brings with him that you can't ignore. But you also, it's like how much do you focus on it when in fact what we're talking about is that he is coming back to fight another man in a cage. Fight sports have had this issue for a long,

long time because we have a lot of, like, characters that come in and out of fight sports that bring some, some troubling past with them. And it, I don't know what the answer is. And I, but I do think like we're all going to kind of grapple with it because here we are.

It's like, you don't want to treat it. It's just like, hey, as business as usual, everybody's super excited and happy to have Cona McGregor back because it's different now. It has to be different now.

But also, we are going to cover it. because it's going to be a big fight. It's going to be a big event in this sport. And so how do you... It's also a sport, you know, like we've been around this a long time where it's acceptable to try to control the narrative, to get out in front of the narrative where people are like, oh, you know, we don't talk about.

That's something blah, blah, blah. And we've seen this so many times. This is our first look back at, you know, O'Connor's actually really entering back into the picture. We've had these talks ad nauseum. Can you imagine if that's all we did was just. just go on about this stuff. I mean, it would be, we have done that essentially. But at some point, you're right. You're covering a sport. I'm not sure how you're supposed to navigate both ends there.

Like, you're not going to be able to contextualize every reason he's a complicated figure in everything that you do. It's just, it's going to be very difficult. It's on the onus falls in the end to to him, to the UFC, to answer these questions whenever they do arise. Like they, they're the ones who have the onus of saying, like, hey, UFC's put. putting him on, you know, if the people getting mad about the coverage of this should be mad with Dana, right, or the UFC for having him involved in the UFC. It should be on Connor McGregor himself when he comes back and he's into a broader scope of the media because he'll have to answer for this at some point. But Jimmy Fallon, I mean, if you're handpicking the

soft landing for coming back into the public view, you're going to take Jimmy Fallon. You know, you're going to take those guys who they're the fun-loving, you know, you're going to go under that situation and you're not going to you're not going to worry about things but it is a very complicated thing man ben mentioned and this is a i do think that that will you know this will be very interesting to see how it's handled more broadly because when we've had things like this i mean they're not none of these are ever apples apples you just mentioned mike tyson i can remember and i still deal with this you still deal with people talking about mike tyson whenever you mention um you got to give the full context of mike tyson the rape you know all this stuff and i'm like

it's very difficult because at some point you're just talking about the boxer right like you're trying to talk about the boxer Kobe Bryant back in the day when he was in Colorado you know got got in trouble for a sexual misconduct thing in Eagle Colorado and it took to his dying day

like he was show up in Denver and they'd boo him for this right but this is just Colorado it was just Colorado they never let him off the hook even though that you know he settled out of court on the on the one side of that and charges were dismissed on the other right Like, so in a similar way to Connor where it's like some price has been paid and he's coming back to it. There are a lot of people who are like, well, he was exonerated. He's, you know, he's no longer legally under microscope.

He's out of that now. You know, they're going to see it that way. And we've seen it like, we've seen worse stains. Like you think about like Penn State, what was going on at Penn State, like the Sandusky thing. I mean, those dudes were ruined. Even Coach Paternal, like, right? Like, it was such a mess for those guys they could never recover from. what happened there. Again, not apples to apples, but like, it's a, it's a strange thing. And I just

don't know because this is the UFC. We just saw a vent on the White House, you know, at the White House where if you wanted to like point around at the people and all the things they've done, you would, you'd spend a long time, you know, doing that. So it's going to be very interesting, even from my perspective, to see how this thing will be covered. But also you, I mean, the Kobe Bryant comparison that you bring up, Chuck, what that does highlight a big difference is in how they handled the aftermath of it because Kobe Bryant went out and made a statement against his attorney's advice to say, hey, I still think that this was a consensual encounter. That's what I thought at the time. I understand now she did not view it that way and I really regret that. And I'm sorry to her and I'm

sorry to my wife and everybody involved. Conner McGregor did not go that route with it. Connor McGregor threatened to sue a British journalist who asked him, like, who referred to him as a rapist. And, you know, Conradger's wife was out there posting on Instagram about how she's going to warn her sons that there are women like this in the world, portraying himself as a victim. I want to continue this conversation, and we will do so on YouTube. But that is all we have today for the Yahoo Sports Network. Thank you for joining us. We're going to continue this conversation on YouTube. Thank you, Ben.

Sorry about that. Ben is getting a raw deal. I'm glad I got to send them off on this. That high note there. is getting absolutely shafted by the Yahoo Sports Network breaks. All good points. Kobe Bryant has been brought up an awful lot. Ronaldo, despite his court proceedings, not happening.

It never got to court. There was large stories about him. And I have had people from the McGregor sort of things going, like how many articles are talking about Ronaldo in this respect, ahead of this World Cup or the different football players who've had situations like this pop up in the past? But, that's the one thing that's very kind of obvious to me is balancing this is nearly impossible because on one side of it you have a bunch of fans frothing at the mouth for this guy to return. This guy that is the most, like, you know, electrifying sports star the USC has ever had.

And on the other side, it's not even a sports story. It's just disgust. Like they don't, they don't want this covered. They don't want him platform. They don't want to see him in this spot at all. And I just feel like that side is going to be very disappointed. because when you look at the ESP, like for instance, this White House card was coming up.

What was one of the attached questions usually when he's talking, when Dana's out there doing the rounds on like the bigger media, the, you know, those places that don't usually look in the octagon. A lot of times their question, you know, if it's McAfee or somebody like that is, when are we getting Connem of Gregor back? I mean, do you think that that's crossing their mind the other side of that? It's not at all.

It's just, that is just a fact. Like the bigger, broader media in the sports world, is certainly not going to look at it like that. They're just wondering where Connor McGregor is because they know he's a star in the fight game. Yeah, it's, so what does it do about? Like, what happens here? Is it just a lot of Irish people

and obviously broader than Irish people, but particularly the reactions I'm seeing are from Ireland and big, big personized within Ireland, a lot of re-shares within Ireland, is it just that is the backdrop for this fight? There is a massive event on in Las Vegas, and Irish people are disgusted by it. according to what I'm seeing online.

I think the backdrop for this event has to be Connor McGregor is coming back and in several different ways he is not the same guy who was the big star that we remember from before and there's a few different things that play into that and I think that

one of the narratives going into this fight is going to be who is this version of Connor McGregor and what can he still do because we came out of those two Dustin Porier fights, one where he gets knocked out, the other where he breaks his leg, but also was not exactly winning before he broke his leg, then goes away for a long

time, comes back, maybe he's going to fight Michael Chandler, gets hurt again, goes away again. In the meantime, you've had this sex assault case play out in Ireland. You've had now this New York Times report about him using banned substances. Oh, he began retreat.

The, well, and the thing, the interesting difference to me is like, you talk about the difference between how Irish fans and American fans view him. It's very interesting how MMA fans and non-MFA fans view this

the story from the New York Times about banned substances during his recovery. Because I think for MMA fans, we go, yeah, man, I kind of suspected that the guy was on some stuff. I watched him bulk way up

when people sort of suggested that he was doing this stuff like Anthony Smith on Twitter. He didn't exactly deny it. we watched his body change. And I think we also felt a little bit understanding of that that we go, hey, the same way we don't look at Anderson Silva and be like, his entire legacy was ruined by that positive steroid test when he came back from a broken leg. We all kind of went, hey, we get it, man. That was a bad break.

You wanted to come back. You were probably open to a lot of different suggestions for what you had to do to get back in there. And I think that MMA fans in general, we are a little less shocked these days by any sort of doping scandal. But also we went, yeah, these are, these are different circumstances we can understand. And we're not exactly. This is, these are not the substances. We're worried about this guy abusing, frankly. And so we all kind of shrugged our shoulders at it.

But it's going to be part of the narrative where it's just like the New York Times, we're just reporting about what you've been doing and putting your doctors under the hot seat. to the point that Major League Baseball and the NFL are going to go talk to that doctor about it. Yeah. So it's like it has these ripples. It's going to be part of the thing that's known. And everybody meanwhile is going to be like, who is this Connor McGregor who says he's turned over a new leaf, who has found God and forgiven himself and all regrets his missteps and says that he's got it all figured out now. And so we're going, okay, one of the appeals of this sport, as I've said many times before, is that that can't. Cage is a place where you can't hide from yourself anymore.

You can't hide from the truth in there. It will find you in there. And so he's going to get in there and we're going to find out what of that that he said is actually true. And honestly, man, it operates this whole time on, we always say second chances. But in Connor's case, you know, it's like, I don't know how many chances. But like him just coming in with this sort of, you know, this kind of modesty of, you know, material things, no thanks. I, you know, I do have lovely watching. though.

Just just, just saying? Fantastic. Four or five times bigger figures than I get than any other

Stop by all five times. Four or five. Okay, just go ahead. Sorry. I mean, he's going to have to hold that. He's going to have to hold that line

because that's, that's, we're still, there's going to be a lot of things between then and his fight. So he's going to have to hold a line if he's going to, if he's going to keep that modesty up,

I should say. But yeah, I know that your piece really touched on this. And I tend to agree with you that this is the version. he's presenting and like Ben pointed out it's like you know i've there's a broader kind of sweep that saying you don't even need to ask me about this i've already addressed within myself all of my things that i've done and i've here i am i'm changed and i'm better for it you know that sort of

thing he's trying to he's trying to give you a contrition without ever saying it i'm past it nearly i've moved i'm past it we all should be that type of thing right it's it's it's um yeah it's crazy it's i was funny enough when i was listening to the i brilliant interview at the end he's kind of Ariel brings up the New York Times article and uh Conner's going to list them off like do you know what these people have tested me and he's shocked by it and I'm like no it's because they know you've taken BDs before like that's that's why that's happening mate it's not like they're targeting you it's because they know they know and it's in the New York times that you took performance against drugs of course they're going to ask you and test you more than other people like that is

that is their thinking, right? Like these drug testers at this point. And it is funny, Ben, you've been around this, like, you've been around these guys who, people openly talk these days about, like, their cycles of what they used to do back in the day to kind of skirt, you know, detection at all this stuff. And I'm like, anybody who is naive to think, you know, it just seems like naivity to me. And it's like, I know with, you know, you sign bigger deals, you become more of a bigger worldwide sport, the bigger the scrutiny becomes on it.

But this should surprise nobody. This is the type of news. This is surprise nobody. you know. I also think though, the core point that he brought up, because one thing I did, I did think it was interesting when Ariel asked about him and his first reaction was shocking. And you're like, okay. Yeah. He was ready for that.

Like a coiled spring. But he was like shocking to see a man's medical history. And I was like, man, why didn't Barry Bonds think of this? You know? Just to go medical privacy with it. The audacity. I do think the, the, the, the, the, There's a core question in here about, hey, a guy suffered an injury, and I think he's way overplaying it for one thing to be like, I was concerned.

I'd never walk again. And it's like, bro, come on. You suffered a break to your leg. People come back from those all the time. Like, I'd never be able to play with my kids. I'm like, yes, you will. Like, that's, that happens to people. They're okay.

The argument, though, would be like, I was a high level professional athlete and I was concerned if I don't get this to heal correctly, it could affect or end my career. That's valid. That's a valid concern. And so if you tell me, hey, I went to this doctor who's a specialist and he said, recovery is going to be really key here. Let me refer you to these guys to help get you on the right recovery path. And you went, okay, he's the doctor. He knows, right? He refers you to these other doctors.

You get to these other doctors, they say, I'm going to write you out some prescriptions for this stuff that you need to take to get on the bright path recovery wise. And you go, they're the doctors. They know, I'll take the stuff. And then Usada comes along and says like, you can't take that stuff. We don't want you to take it. And you go, hey, I'm not fighting for a while anyway. I don't really matter of fact,

now that you guys brought it up, I don't want you swinging by my house and bothering me and waking me up at 6 o'clock in the damn morning. Also valid. Also valid. Yeah. Also valid. And so you go, let me get out of this testing pool.

If I'm not going to fight for a while, who knows, maybe ever again. Like, there was a lot of us who thought, it's a good chance. He never fights again. And so it's reasonable to me to say, like, hey, maybe the rules should be different. If you're not at all in a competition phase,

if you are taking stuff for an injury, we saw you absorb in competition. You're worried about recovery. This is a critical time period for you. Maybe you should be allowed to do stuff that the people in competition aren't allowed to do. I think that there's a conversation to be had there. I also don't think that there were people,

other doctors in that New York Times article who were like, I show me the science that says steroids will help you as heal a broken leg. Like, we watched this guy, his delts got way huger. What did that have to do with healing his broken leg? And so I think like, for the croaches. Right. Right.

Come on. But like that is a conversation. That's a valid conversation for us to have. The thing is though, it's like if you're going to tell me, hey, the rules are different if you're coming back from a bad injury and we'll make certain allowances for you. And I'll go like, hey, if there's science. to support it that says these things that you can't do in competition are useful and important for people recovering from an injury, sure. But then we need to have that rule so that everybody

can do this and not just the guy who can afford all the high power doctors and everything. Like it needs to be a known thing that you can do because other people are suffering bad injuries too. And the rules have to be the same for everybody. Yeah. And if they're focused on that, I mean, they probably don't want to touch upon the cornucopia of other recreational drugs that may have been found or detected through that I'm just saying maybe possibly possibly

I think one thing that the Irish people need to brace them for certainly the Irish people who are against McGregor who are disgusted by all of this is if he wins this fight

this is going to be heralded as the greatest return to the sport of all time like if you think it's it's like if they're upset now by this appetite to see this man fight and this this clear um excitement there is and and go and look at the comments on their Ariel's interview people are frothing at them out for for McGregor to return imagine if he wins it's going to go off the fucking hook especially yeah especially well okay so

we just had an event where being overshadowed within the whole event because the white house being the backdrop it is is that two of the stars right like the guys that we consider now the stars of the UFC, they lose, right? So it would be just like Connor McGregor to come back at that moment, like a couple weeks later and actually win the fight and kind of reclaim his space, you know, kind of undisputed in that sense of like being the star of the UFC again. I mean, I could see this happen. Now that you're talking about this, I'm like, this feels, this feels real to me because

of the, what did you used to say, Ben, that the Zion, or it's Mount Zion. Mount Zion. Yeah, that's where they're going to make gods live. They will ensure that this happen. It does seem unlikely though Ben, right? With everything we've just discussed, the civil case, the boycotting of his merchandise across the UK and Ireland, the leg breaks. He says he might not have been able to walk again. And then you have like the Ibegain situation, which is it a really intense thing based on my reading up on it and Ambio, the people he did it with.

They list like for withdrawals, like for complete resets of your mind. For trauma is what McGregor said he was. went for. Like, these are serious fucking things to put your body through. At his age as well, 38 in July. I mean, the odds for me are completely stacked against him, which makes, of course, the victory all the more spectacular if he manages to do it. Yeah, I do think that there is a lot working against him here. And especially the, what we saw in those last two Dustin Poirte fights, I think was pretty good evidence that you can't just jump in and out of this sport. that the sport, it changes so much, it evolves.

And if you're not in the gyms, if you're not living that life and you go in there and you have to fight a guy who is hungrier than you are, who wants it more than you do, and has been here the whole time. And he's been living through those evolutions. He's been at American top team where there's young hungry guys coming in all the time. And when there are new developments in MMA, he's right there on the ground floor. He's watching it. And so you come in there.

he starts kicking you in the calf and Connor Gregor's making a face like what is this and you're like bro that's become a thing everybody needs to have a plan for it now and the fact that you don't know that the fact that you're not prepared for it tells us something it's tough like this this is not the kind of sport where you can just like you know take a year off uh hang out on a yacht or in a nightclub in abitha and then hop right back in and be like all right right i'm i'm get serious now like it's it's kind of treating it like getting back in shape to do a 5K or something where it's like Monday morning first thing I'm back yeah and it's just like you're I remember I can't remember who it was who who first coined this term to me but they used to talk about how some of the

guys they trained with they're like uh you know sure he's got to get in fight camp soon but he's got to get in shape to get in shape yeah you know and like a lot of guys are using their fight camp at that point just to get their weight down, to get their body in shape, just to get back using it. And they're not adding skills to the toolbox at that point because they're just trying to get physically ready to go in there and fight. And if you go in there against the guy like Max Holloway, who has just, who has been here, hasn't taken a lot of time off, hasn't gone off and, you know, diminished himself. Outlawful savage as well. Yeah. And a guy who can just pace and pressure wise who can break you,

who can just pour it on you until you can't take it anymore, which has been a weakness of Connor McGregor's in the past. If people make it out of the first round and they start pressuring him, then we've seen him wilt. And so there is a whole lot working against you there. I think it would be

a kind of miraculous if he came back here and beat Max Holloway. As you're talking about this though, that's, I mean, you're right though, Pizzi. And because if he wins this fight, we've just outlined the reasons why that we're going to have reaction. I mean, this is, it would, it would feel like he just did something with his back against the wall. It would be like the, of course, the encore, you know, where he comes back and he's able to do

something like this after all the things we just talked about. I mean, it will seem that way to the world for sure. And, and it's funny you mentioned this, the thing that McGregor has, has never lost. And I do think he's a very different guy than the guy I was covering in 2010, you know, into the championship run in 2015 that the pomp of his career, I think he's a very different guy. He's changed a lot, even changed the way,

like that he speaks a different way. But the one thing that has been constant is his ability to make people believe. Like that leaves fighters so quickly. And we're not talking about a guy who's coming off a win here. He hasn't won in six and a half years. He has, as we mentioned,

the two Porre fights were quite emphatic losses. And he goes on and he starts talking again. And suddenly everyone, eating out of the palm of the hand. It's it's it's quite a phenomenon that he that he still has that despite everything and all of the things that have happened. I don't I can't really quantify that.

Does anyone have an idea is what way he can do that? It's it's, I think it's one of his most unique and strongest abilities to this day. Yeah. And when they when they compared him to Muhammad Ali in the day, which we've done this with other, he's probably the closest than that way. Like he's able to kind of, I mean, Muhammad Ali probably went through. bigger scrutiny in the end than Conn McGregor did.

But it's just, you know, it's, that's that it factor. I guess when we talk about it, it's something that I think you can't define. Like, he's always had a command this way. And it's just, I wasn't sure we'd be able to get there again, but from the reactions I

saw off of his, off the press, it feels like he still got that, right? So I don't know. Yeah, and that might be the last thing to go, honestly, because he can show up and still be like charming and charismatic and uh that that quality where people see them on a tv screen and they want to watch and see what this guy is going to do next like that's still there it's the other stuff can you still do the other stuff the fighting stuff because that's the really

really hard part you know like the other stuff i can see how how you retain that how that sticks around a little bit but you're coming back into the sport that is a young man's game and it does not favor people who have been up all night in the night clubs instead of in the gym training. You're trying to just like whip yourself back into shape for it. But once you get out there, it's going to be sink or swim. One last note on this, I was speaking about this. A lot of people got on to me from being perfectly honest about the Falunton, you know, giving out yards about it.

I know it was lucky enough that I have so many American friends that I could kind of offer, you know, then people were kind of saying, what did you expect, you know? But they're all going to watch. Like that's the thing as well. As disgusted as they are by this guy, they all want to tune in in case he gets knocked out. And they're probably going to have people over to the house.

And they're probably going to have a few drinks. And they're probably going to get pizza in. You know, it's just such a... There's no way for him to win favor. Like, say he goes in there and does what we're talking about, right? He just presents himself all the time leading up as I'm a changed man. He goes out there beats Max Holloway. Is there any chance that Ireland is rallies around him again?

Of course he, get some people back. No doubt about it, but I feel like it's so visceral for Irish people. I'm more personal than it is for fans from anywhere else. This is the most famous man from Ireland. I think it's just too much. It's too far gone for a lot of them. It could be proved wrong. He has proved me wrong in the past. So we'll have to wait and see, we've teased the Tyson Fury stuff. I mean, I know. I know all them crackheads are going, oh, baby. Tyson Fury. Do you think so? No, probably not. But he, right, so the Fury thing, was Dana saying, hinting at he's going to promote this event.

Eddie Heron says, we actually have something in the contract that says, uh, eh, eh, eh, you cannot do that. We must do that. However, however, Frank, Frank Warren, Toys and Fury's old promoter, his old pal appeared on Talk Sport, and starting to sound like the old Dana White promotion, slot is very much going to happen. Let's have a listen to Frank. I think Turkey to Alice Sheikh's money will make Dana White have a voice in this conversation.

Yes, I do. But I think it's incidental. I see. Can I just also, and again, something we've sort of mentioned to you on the program many times. We have an exclusive, exclusive contracts with design for our UK fights. That's where we are. We have an exclusive with them. And as far as the next fight's concerned, not even, sorry, Tyson's fight with Joshua, that will be on Netflix. And that's the position.

So if the fight was in the UK, it was on Netflix, it's, you know, we couldn't promote it anyway. We're not in there. And it's the same with Eddie Hens, in the same position. And if you remember Eddie's, Eddie, who is the promoter of AJ, his last fight was promoted by Jake Paul. So yeah.

That's changed a bit, right? It sounds like Dana is going to win. And, but look, this must be why Fury showed up at the White House. I'm thinking about it in connecting dots here. Yeah. Doesn't that feel like, go on. You know what I would know about that White House thing is like, what did they tell John Anick? Because nothing.

Yeah. It seems like they didn't give him any, like he was trying to do a real interview and trying to be like, all right, tell us why. you're here and Tyson Fury being like something because I can't I can't talk I can't talk about it all that I didn't talk about it and just like you could see John Anick was just like trying to basically ask why are we doing this why why did we like we stopped the broadcast do a whole walkout and he's nailing the broadcast John Anick is fucking nailing the broadcast and they're like here's a thing go and then we stand them up next to the cage and do this interview and so you're like all right we're going to hear something and then there's just like he he's playing it tight-lipped and just like nope not gonna tell

you and you're like so why are we talking right now if you're just committed to not saying anything is that weird that like during an m-ma event like this i mean i know the i know tk o but it is so weird isn't it like that was the one strange like if you're really pointed out like the you know the elements of the production this has to be one of the biggest things it stands out is like you know why not just do the power slap? That's what I, you know, I heard people saying that they should have done power slap at the fan fest,

you know, where you have like just this crowd that's showing up that wants something to watch. But it would be like that. It would be like, why not just, you know, introduce anything that you want to promote

into the, into an MMA fight that it's just so different than anything we've seen with the UFC. To even tease it, even teasing it's just crazy. Yeah. Let's look, everyone calm down,

right? Okay. There's been a lot of hate. No, I know, you know, there's been a lot of hate. and you know what I mean?

Frank and Eddie and Dana and all this stuff we have a peacemaker now you're going to be very happy to hear it do we have this is not included in the notes not included in the notes I'm out now we're off script come on try and stay with me here guys

Jordan can you show us the development that happened look at it look at who it is that's Turkey al-sheikh he said I'll do my best to do a meeting soon between my brothers Dana White Nick Cannes, Frank Warren, Eddie Hearn,

and my partners and friends Desone to make peace and revolution for boxing. I hope I succeed and boxing fans see the white smoke rays from the chimney. I want to do it before losing my memory. I'm afraid in 2000, can't read that. 2008 or 2009. I'll forget my name.

Don't really understand the day. What was that part about? Let's not. Hey, all right? Is there something going on? That's troubling. Is that a joke or is that like a sincere thing? Hey, don't.

What do you mean? Were you going to like, he ended on that note. How are you going to be like, hey, let's not pay attention to the part where he suggested that maybe he's losing his connection to reality? Aren't we all in this combat sports game using Harris class, but reality? He knows where it's updating. Someone made a good point here. Ariel pointed out via text message to me.

Someone in the comments, he said, oh, I think it was Rick actually. He said, look at this comment here, the first one underneath it. It was, is he saying he's going to put out the fire he started? Like this guy, like, he's coming in, like, let me sort this all out. Kind of. In fairness, right now in the world, putting out the fires you start has proven to be a popular pastime for some powerful. I mean, they all love them and hate them back and forth here.

Like, it's just, and then this event happening in the U.S., right, becomes like if it, I mean, once it's kind of announced if it's in the U.S., it's just like, I don't know, like when they talk about fixing boxing, you know, Zufu boxing, and you're like, we're going to come in and we're going to fix something. That seems like a very strange way to do that, doesn't it, to have it in the United States? We had to, we actually have Don Cunopio from Insoid boxing, our wonderful podcast on Uncrowned. Here's here's, here's Don talking about it, and I think he hits the nail on the head. We talked about this on the pod, but I just saw a report that Fury versus AJ there's a strong chance that it's heading to the state.

I mean, this is a perfect representation of everything that is currently wrong with the state of boxing. This is all power. This is all ego. This is all greed. But most of all, it's power. There is no reason why AJ Fury should not be at Wembley. This is a Wembley stadium fight. This is a battle for British supremacy.

Why would it be in the United States? Because Dana White, in turn. Turkey, want to give a big middle finger to Eddie Hearn and Frank Warren. So they're going to spite the UK boxing fans. This is not a huge fight in terms of stature. It's a spectacle. This isn't Fury versus Ucic. This isn't Mike Tyson versus Lennox Lewis years past to figure out who is the best in the division.

It's a fight that's 10 years too late that is now being taken by promoters and power brokers. hair's crazy in order to prove a point in order to show that we can do this we can take your fight eddie your big british fight and we can put it in the u.s i don't understand it give me one good reason why fury versus joshua should be in the u.s it's look it's it's it's sacrilegious to uk boxing fans that this would happen anywhere else like it's it's it's fucking crazy i mean this what's been talked about forever like and it's obviously like it's that's where it's supposed to be This whole time, isn't this the basic operating assumption is that this takes place in England? The whole time that this has been discussed.

We also have Sheen Al Shadi just garnish me with some information from Darshan, a great boxing reporter, everything boxing. He's speaking about Turkey Alashik's line there about the memory. This one will go over some people's heads, Darshan writes, and just be seen as hyperbole, which it could be. But it was reported in the New York Times last year that Al-Aishik is suffering from serious health issues, including a tumor in his brain. So fuck, that is, uh, that is very fucking serious. I did not want to get into the third biograph because I didn't know what he was talking about, but Darshan and Jean Alshadie have come through with the clutch for us. So that is, that is very, very interesting. My God. Yeah, that is. And it's also, it tells you something about

maybe how important he sees all the boxing stuff to his legacy that if I felt like I was dealing with health concerns and I and I felt the clock running down. I'm not sure trying to make peace with Dana White and everybody would be one of the ways I wanted to spend my time. I'm, I might be in a touch grass kind of mode and if he's clearly sees that as being very important to him. So it also, I couldn't tell from the tenor of his comments if he's trying to like make fun of that report or something or point out like, hey, people are saying I'm, I'm going

downhill. But yeah, shit, okay. I don't know. I don't know exactly how to read that. It's a very weird thing to try to tackle on my show like this, where you're like trying to figure out what's real. I feel like the longer this show goes on, the more information is going to come out,

and we're just going to be like constantly reacting to it. Yeah, okay, okay, okay. Haven't even got to the hilarious banter yet. Let's enter the hilarious banter. What do you think of with Jersey, by the way? Mexico, two wins and two. Mexico. This is the 1986, Mexico, Jersey from the 86 World Cup,

the one year before I was born. Maradona. Maradona and a hand of God. One of the greatest goals of all time. My God. I love Mexico, man. I love the spirit. And they've never won a game in the knockouts.

And he got the USA tonight who fucking lit it up in the first game. And Canada, winning their first World Cup game last night. I mean, not too bad for the host nation, guys. I want to register how much intrigue there is among you in the old W.C. That's not the toilet, by the way. That's a World Cup. There's a lot, honestly. Like, you see a lot, at least in my area of,

the United States. It's, uh, it's many Ireland's away from Chuck's, uh, area. Just try to put it in perspective for you. Thank you.

Please always give me the geography in Orleans. Yeah. Okay. How many Orleans would you say? 15? 500 miles and then 500 more. I mean, the state I live in is the size of Germany.

So like put that. How many Orleans is Germany? How many Orleans is Germany? Come on. Come on. There's got to be a few of them in there. Um, but,

you know, I went out to, uh, you know, the first game was last Friday night. I went out to a bar with my friends. It was packed. People were watching it.

You know, this one is an afternoon game, but you're hearing people get excited. Especially it's like, the thing we're not used to is the U.S. being any good. And so we come out, we win the first one and look good doing it. People are like, oh, wait a minute, hold on.

And America can be a little bit of a front runner in these kind of competitions. So if the U.S. seems like it's doing well, I'm sure the momentum will build for it and everything. Honestly, the thing that seems like Americans are most, excited about with the World Cup is having the fans from all the different nations come over here and do their stuff and we get really excited about it where it's like the Scots show up and they're going to drink every drop of liquor in Boston and we're like hell yeah we love everyone. You know, or if people are getting like, you're stealing our thing guys. We love you. We love you. We love you. We love you. We have been doing that. Okay. And I'm like, you know what? I'm glad somebody's fucking doing it. You know what I mean? The Norwegian fans are doing their rowing thing like up the Escal. later and we're like okay we're loving it we're loving having the they're in like their enthusiasm for and their energy for it spreads to the people here when they get here and i think like that's been

a really exciting part for us it's also cool because like some people that i know you know that maybe don't get into the sports that you follow at all like are like we're flying out to go see you know whatever they're flying out spending all this money to go to a you know world cup game out here that's kind of cool i mean it's just it's a completely different vibe i i've i caught last night's game but a lot of the stuff when I was in D.C. I wasn't able to watch. I was working, so I couldn't watch everything. But, like, there were peep, there were bars.

They were just stuffed like when you're mentioning other countries and stuff. Like, you could see their contingencies showing up and watching. I thought that was pretty cool, too, man. Yeah, well, you know what? The thing, too, that is, tells you a little bit about the interest. I was here, what was it yesterday, the day before. I was at the, I think it was Wednesday when England and Croatia were playing. And I went over for something I'm doing on that.

the University of Montana's athletic department. And I'm sitting there waiting for a meeting that I'm supposed to be on the start. They've got a giant big screen TV in the lobby and it's set to England and Croatia. And the guy comes to get me and be like, oh, yeah, they're ready for you. Come on back here. And it was right as Harry Kane was lying up to take the penalty. Oh, my gosh. And we were both walking back, but we both stopped and we're just kind of like looking at each other being like, well, it won't take a couple seconds for us to watch.

We can't walk in there now. like let's just stand here see how this thing turns out and then we can go in there and start the meeting and you're just like that kind of thing is that's not normally what the vibe would be like there in the middle of the afternoon is there anything more British than Harry Kane missing said penalty and I'm going no no go again Harry oh here we have another little go here we go okay yeah Harry no no you don't miss penalties because we'll keep making you fucking take them until you score okay okay okay it's Diego Lopez. Is this the ancient grievances? This is me objectively watching the sport, okay? That's all it is. Fair play. Harry Kane, do you know we could have played for it?

I'm just by the boy. Ireland. Yeah, no. Chose them. Chose our oppressor. Hope you have a good one, Harry. Okay? And you Declan Royce, who fucking wore the jersey and kissed the fucking badge and

play for it a motherfucker. Sorry. Woo. World Cup. Now see, this should be a segment that we sent, We sandwich in every week between hilarious banter and super chat should be. Pizzi Rages at the English. I like that, actually.

And just again, love English people, love visiting England. Just when I see them playing football, I want them to lose every single time in the most furious of manners. Remember the time they did the anthem and all the guys were standing? I'm just kidding. You showed us that last. That was cool. That did give me goosebumps. Do we have any super chats, Jordan, please?

Yeah. Ripping off a lick. One or 11? We talk about Cyril as one of the best strikers in MMA, yet he consistently is fouling in finishing sequences. Look at Hoofie and Mike. I expect Cyril to be able to do the same. I don't know what that means, Elliot Banks.

Do we talk about him as one of the best strikers in MMA, or do we talk about him as one of the better strikers at heavyweight? Yeah, because there's a difference. That's more accurate. There's a difference. And it's also a lot to do with his footwork rather than his striking. If you get me like it's his movement and his evasive ability rather than what he's putting on guys. Not that he didn't do a fantastic job against Pereira.

But what is the question there that? Sorry, am I am I having some type of anywhere. I didn't quite understand the question being asked. I don't know one or a little. Well, yeah. So he's just saying. He's saying if Marisa Oofi can rush in there and finish Michael Chandler, who's hurt without a hammer in the back of his head,

then why can't we expect Cyril Gahn, fair point and everything. But, yeah. I'd like him to. Yeah, it would be better. I think the fact that we've discussed that this is the talking point coming out of this big win for him

tells you it would have been better for him had he not done that. True. Yeah, thank you, Elliot. Do we have another one, Jordan? Tom Asmel is going to distract Cyril Gahn with a raven up in the rafters. his own eye poke on Cyril

shout out big time Ben what you think of that you know what I mean the Raven bit needs to belong to one man it's gonna we're gonna water it down but imagine Tom Aspinall comes out there in a rematch with Cyril gone and just kicks him in the nuts right away and then and then just kind of looks at him like sorry about that uh... are you gonna complain?

Are you like can you really complain about this? You know what could you say at that point? You'd have to be like all right damn it fair enough Is that a Dundaso or Dundaso? What if you called those? That would be some classic Dundaso. Okay. Honestly.

Incredible. Incredible. You should do that. What about him having a British bulldog of sorts? Like, you know, like baby boy Smith, like him walking out one of them. Osmond could rock that pretty fucking well, I think you know. I like the Raven. I think you need something like that, you know, something a little.

Yeah. My God, it's so close. Left to center. Maybe there's a raven, a team of ravens. You know what I mean? No, sorry, Ben, this is your thing. I like that. anything else there Jordan

Lazara you haven't said anything mate but I appreciate it like there's a thumbs up like oh it's a thank you we always appreciate being liked yeah I need it oh okay well who knows

and which you had a better response to that I mean that's a we fucking crush this show today crackheads I mean you must be like oh I'm jones and for some crack you know what time Friday comes around you must be absolutely feigning for crack and we just laid that crack on you.

Thick and heavy. But alas, the show must end. From Big Time Ben, folks, from the man on the hatchook, Menon Hall, Jordan, our wonderful producer. Oscar Losef's on holiday, so I'm not thanking him this time around. Frank, you're going to get these audio recordings, make a nice little podcast for everyone. We're going to be back next Friday.

See you then. Big kiss. Mwha.