The Ariel Helwani Show - Alex Pereira’s toughest test, TKO’s boxing revolution, Ilia Topuria’s tease, is Croke Park a real place? | The Craic

Episode Date: March 7, 2025

With all the talk of what lies beyond UFC 313 for Alex Pereira, are we discounting the fact that Magomed Ankalaev is by far his hardest test at 205 pounds? Petesy Carroll, Ben Fowlkes and Shaheen Al-Shatti discuss how a victory would impact the iconic Brazilian striker’s legacy (4:03).As for the chief support, the lads ponder whether Justin Gaethje will be a changed man following his brutal knockout loss to Max Holloway when he rematches short-notice stand-in Rafael Fiziev (29:56).The conversation then turns to TKO and whether its boxing revolution will be as easily executed as most people are anticipating (44:32).Petesy shares thoughts from the homeland about Katie Taylor’s big Croke Park fight never coming to fruition, as her trilogy bout with Amanda Serrano has been confirmed for July at Madison Square Garden (59:11).Finally, the trio predict what Ilia Topuria is teasing with a recent post online (1:07:25) and try to formulate a way to destroy Chuck Mendenhall’s reign as Uncrowned’s king of picks (1:14:22).Join us on the bike: avironactive.com/uncrowned

Crackheads, welcome to another special edition of the Crack on a UFC pay-per-view Friday. That's right, the weigh-ins are happening right now as I'm speaking to you. Of course it is UFC 313 Alex Pereira against Magomed Ainkalaev. Perhaps his toughest test of the day. And well, definitely as far as I'm concerned, we're going to talk about all that good stuff. We might even get into a bit of TKO boxing. We might even look at Taylor Serrano's trilogy fight and maybe a bit about Ilya Topuriya teasing us with what the announcement will be when he eventually does have that 155 fight, well second 155 fight in the UFC. Very much

looking forward to this weekend. And just to let you know, we do have our main event locked in. The title fight is going to happen tomorrow in Las Vegas. And I believe on air Jordan has some lovely video for us. Look at this man. His body is banging. We've got Anker Lyov here as well. What a unit. Oh, we are nicely poised for a big fight tomorrow in Sin City.

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ladies and gentlemen, you've been asking for them. I am delivering them. It has been folks and Shaheen Alshadi, the crowd goes wild. Guys, welcome back, my beautiful, beautiful friends. Shaheen, how are you? Editor-in-chief, Uncrowned. I'd say it was a pretty busy week for you over there with the old TKO Boxing and USC 313 and Taylor Serrano and Iliya Toporia and everything else. How are you, sir? Oh, baby, it's just another week.

It's always a busy week with us. I'm doing wonderful. It's good to be back here with you gentlemen. Anytime we can make time to do this. I always love it. I'm excited for tomorrow, man. It's gonna be a good night. I am very excited and a man who is excitement personified every time he's on this show. It is Ben, folks, ladies and gentlemen. Ben, how are you, darling? I feel like are you taking the piss? Is that how you guys, is that what you guys say? Is that what you're doing to me right now? I'm catching on. I'm catching on to your sense of humor.

Uh, I'm doing great. Glad we're not dealing with any weigh-in shenanigans this time. Uh, and we could just actually focus on the fights ahead. What's going on with the Magomed Uncle I have in those sunglasses though? Is that, did somebody tell him like, man, you need a thing. You don't have a thing right now. Uh, you're too boring. You need a thing.

And he, and he was just like, they went to the mall. He was like, sunglasses. And they're like, fine. Good enough. He's like a light heavyweight Tony Ferguson. He's left the roster. Sort of like, listen, man, there's an opening for a sunglasses guy. Just don't trip over any wires and we'll be fine.

Ben, tell me, uh, you've seen the bodies on these two beautiful men who will be contesting for the light heavyweight championship tomorrow. How excited are you for this fight? And do you think as most do that this is without a doubt the toughest test. Alex Pereira has had a 205 here at the UFC. It is the toughest test, especially stylistically, because when you look at it, you see a guy who way more than any other opponent that Alex has faced at 205 has strengths that really seem to match up with at least what we believe

to be his weaknesses. I will point out that we are doing a lot of speculating on Alex Pereira's ground game and wrestling game based mostly off what we saw, you know, I did his fights with like Jan Blachowicz, fights that were some time ago. Since then, the main thing we have to go on is every time Daniel Cormier tries to take him down when he sees him in a hotel hallway, right? Like he looks pretty good. He looks pretty good fending off Daniel Cormier's hallway single legs.

Uh, but we're also just kind of going like, well, we assume he still can't wrestle or we assume that he's not going to catch up the wrestling game in that short time period to be able to match up with somebody like Ankalayev. So he's going to, you know, we need to get to him standing. The other thing though, is that, look, can we just admit that the UFC, Dana White would be standing there with the belt like he does, getting ready to put it on on Koliak if he wins and we would see that grim faced Dana that we sometimes see when he has to put the belt on and it looks like it is a miserable experience

for him, like he's already thinking about all the money they're going to lose. Magomed Angelayev is not who frankly, anybody really wants to see win this title fight. I mean, are we, can we be honest with ourselves about that? Do we have to pretend that everybody's just like, may the best man win this one? No, everybody wants to see Alex Pera is so much more fun. Even with the sunglasses, Magomed Angelayev is just not as much fun to have around and I think everybody knows that. What do you think Shaheen?

I mean, I think that's fair. I think, you know, we've seen Ariel have these conversations about the lack of stars. One definite star is Pereda. Um, do you think, are you one of those people who believe that the UFC was purposely keeping Ankelyev away from Peredaeta because it could lead to his downfall and therefore the downfall of one of UFC's biggest stars? Is this a disaster if Ankerloyev comes away champ? I mean, I think there's certainly elements of that too, right?

But also it just feels like, this fight to me is very curious just in the cross-section of where we're reaching with this because it it's exactly what Ben said, where a lot of this is very thinly veiled and just obvious if you kind of just take a look at it and take a step back and just like what's actually at play here. Because you look at Oxborough, right? I've been trying to think of a good comparison for him all day. And I haven't really come up with something yet, but I'm sure there's a couple out there of just a beloved champion, guy who sort of wasn't expected come up with something yet, but I'm sure there's a couple out there of just like a beloved champion, guy who sort of wasn't expected to become what he has, but he has legitimately come one of the biggest stars

in the sport, certainly in the UFC. And he's just so much damn fun. It's exactly what Ben said. Like every time it's Alex Perera Fight Week, you're excited, like the whole thing is exciting. Every aspect of it is just like, he's such a quirky personality, so terrifying, such a like

fan-friendly style and all of that. And then you look on the other side and it's just Michael Manning and Kalaya in the UFC seemingly at every turn tried to bury this guy for the past two or three years since that Yom B'Ko would fight, which by the way was not that bad of a fight. Like that was a pretty good fight and that was a pretty good performance by Michael Manning and Kalaya, but Dana White just hated it. And so therefore the fans hated it. It just kind of spiraled into what it is now. But it just, the, the, the cross-section of just like, what is obvious that the UFC wants Alex Prager

to be this champion. The UFC very much has not wanted to put Magomed and Kalaya in this spot, whether it's because they think he can beat Alex or whether they just don't like think people have interest in seeing this guy in big fights. Regardless of whatever it is, it does feel as if we have reached a point

where tomorrow everyone in the MMA world outside of Dagestanis and people within Ankalive's camp are going to be desperately hoping that Alex Pereira wins this fight and remains champion and keeps the good times rolling. And yet everyone simultaneously agrees like, well, Magomed is probably the second best or best guy in this division. And there's a very real chance he could win this fight. And it was just like the entire sport is sort of hanging on pins and needles in that sense.

I'm sure there have been other fights like this. I'm struggling to come up with one that is an apt comparison to just the very bizarre dynamic at play here for this. It's very interesting to me. Yeah, it is a truly bizarre dynamic. Uh, you're right. And just before we move on with the conversation, I should say that every single person has now waved in, weighed in on the main card, well, the entire card

is weighed in, so that is all of your fights are official, and we were waiting on Mauricio Rufi when the show kicked off, I believe, but he is weighed in now. Everything looking above board from what I can see here. So we can happily get locked into UFC three one three tomorrow. And you mentioned this dynamic Shaheen. Am I crazy in thinking that maybe, maybe not directly before his title fight, but certainly while he was on the quest for that title fight, that, that one 55 title fight, people used to feel the same way about Habib Nurmagomedov.

Like not, not that I feel like their slurs are similar, but like, do you disagree with that, that people were kind of like coming from McGregor to Habib? That could be a potential step back in terms of star power. Well, I mean, anything for McGregor is a step back in terms of star power, certainly. But I don't, I don't feel like that comparison works to me because Habib, even like, if you remember like early Habib, right? When he was injured a lot and he kind of had a long layoff. And even at that point, like he was missing, he was missing weight and having weight struggles. And just like, there was a lot of stuff that was sort of hurdles being thrown in his way. He was still a very popular guy because he was so much fun, right? Like he had these fun catchphrases. It was obvious once you saw him in

the cage, like cage, like the level of dominance that this man exhibits. But just in general, like he had, he was charismatic in a way that the language barrier didn't prevent people from sort of coming onto his side. And then also you did have the things like the talking to the people in the cage, the Michael Johnson thing of just like, I need this title shot. You I'm sorry, I'm having to do this at whatever it was where he's just beating the crap out of Michael Johnson and like talking to Dana cage side and all these things.

Like you had these moments where people could lock on and feel like they're a part of this journey. And like, Hey, this guy is pretty fun and he's pretty good too. And you know, maybe like this style isn't with the style that people want the most. But again, like it felt like people were along for the ride with it.

Whereas I just don't get that sense at all with Mago Man and Kaleiw. And maybe I'm off, maybe there's some hardcore and Kaleiw guys out there watching this and just getting real mad at everything we're saying right now, but like, it just does not feel like he has any semblance of sort of that wave that's carrying him to this place, at least not even close to the way that Hubeed did. now, but like, it just does not feel like he has any semblance of sort of that wave

that's carrying him to this place, at least not even close to the way that he did. No, I think that's fair. Yeah, absolutely. Um, even though he may not be a big name, he is certainly a serious, serious fighter. Ben, we've talked about this already. I think, but with both of you guys in terms of the, the perception of his wrestling, uh, how that could be a potential Achilles heel for Peretta in this fight. If you're his coach, are you telling him to go in there and be

Ankerloy of the four, Paul Craig, Ankerloy of the four, Jan Bojovic, and just try and attempt a takedown at every opportunity to get this man down, to drain him, to somehow evade his sensational stroking arsenal. Yeah. I mean, I realize we are with this whole conversation at risk of angering the Anka maniacs out there, all the hardcore modern mad uncle Lya fans, but if I'm in his corner, you can't go in there

thinking it's terrifying to stand with Alex Pereira. We don't want to do a single second of it. And we want to just be shooting for takedowns automatically immediately. Cause that's just going to make the takedowns easier to defend for Alex Pereira. You, you have to tell yourself that you can go in there and stand with him if you have to, and it's not going to be a risk to your very consciousness every second. You have to stand across from the guy, you just don't want to go in there thinking that's your path to victory.

I think if you're on Goliath, where you want to be is up against that fence. You want to be crowding Alex Prairie. You want to be pushing them up there and not fighting them out in open space. And then you want to be chaining those takedowns together and working them and wearing them down, whether you are getting him down and keeping him down early on or not. Like that's the thing is that if you go in there, if it turns out he's, he's improved his takedown defense, he's not so easy to play on the mat. He's not so easy to keep down.

Fine. You want to be confident enough in your gas tank that if I have to spend the whole first two rounds just in a takedown grind battle against the fence, that's fine. Cause it's wearing him out and it means we're not standing out there at kickboxing range in the center of the cage, which is where Alex Pereira wants to be. You want to make him defend your game rather than playing to his game. And we've seen so many people tell themselves, I'm not scared.

I'll go in there. I'll trade punches with the guy. And it is without exception, a terrible idea. And I think it would be a really terrible idea for Magomed on Kalaya. If only because he has those other options, he can go in there and wrestle the guy. And even if the guy is going to defend some of your takedowns, even he's, he might get up from some of those takedowns. You want to make him play that game instead of being out there where he's, he might get up from some of those takedowns. You want to make him play that game instead of being out there where he's

going to sneak that left hook in there sooner or later and everybody thinks they can handle it until they can't, you know? Yeah. You just want to make him think you just want to make him to think that there's something else that could possibly happen in this fight, right? Like Alex Pereira, like we, we always joke about the black magic thing with Eerie, but like he really does. There is something weird that he does to these guys where like you look at the fights last year,

all of last year, 2024, three fights, three title defenses, but there was not a single person who even tried to do anything different, but I'm going to go in there and outstrike the best striker of the era. Like, I don't know how you want to put Alex in that sort of category, but he's certainly one of the best, right? And it's just the idea that alone of that being your strategy of just like, Hey, this guy's a 10 out of 10 in this area. I'm going to just go see if I'm a 10 out of 10 in that area. And the biggest moment of my career, like that seems crazy to me.

And it's just, you got to make him think, especially for a guy like Ankali, I have exactly what Ben said. Like you do have that in your back pocket. You do have that skill set and you're damn good at it too. So if you go into this fight with the idea that like, that's not even part of this, you're just setting yourself up for failure and you're doing yourself a disservice in a way that like this, realistically, like this is kind of it for Ankaliah, right?

Like this is do or die for him. The UFC made him go through hell and back to be able to get back to this point where he is once again fighting for a title. If he loses to Alex, like he's not getting a title shot anytime soon. That man's going to have to win seven fights in a row to be able to work his way back up here. Like he needs to do it now. So it's just, it would be very bizarre to me to see him go in there

and just try to do the Jamal Hill. Just try to do the Eerie Prohaska. Just try to do the Kaleo Roundtree of I'm going to knock Alex Brer out and everyone's going to love it. Like not everyone's Izzy, man. Not everyone has that ability. You make such a good point in terms of like, there is no way he's getting back here. Look at, look at what it took for him to get here.

As you mentioned at the top Shane, this guy was in a title fight that ended in a draw and the UFC were just like, you know, we're going to do, we're going to put two other guys in the top, in a fight for the same title. Like a big day. Uh, Dana comes out as you said, says it's a bad fight. Everyone's like, yeah, let's move on. Let's do Jamal V Glover. It's taken him so long to get back to this moment.

Um, and I agree if he doesn't win, uh, Lord knows when he's going to get back to another opportunity and that really speaks to what we were talking about at the start here and that dynamic, um, Like that, that speaks to how much of a disaster this could potentially be for the UFC seeing as how they've, they've appeared to be trying to push this guy away from a title at any given opportunity. Is it just me, Ben, or is this fight right for what we said at the start, but the biggest star in the UFC. Is this fight floating for what we said at the start, but the biggest star in the UFC, um, is this fight floating under the radar? Like, I mean, in a week that this is the biggest star in the UFC fighting in Las

Vegas, and I know we had some big announcements that might have, uh, skewed some of the viewership during the week with the boxing stuff, but is this flowing, uh, flowing on the radar in the U S cause it kind of feels like that over here a little bit. And I think part of it is it hurt this fight card to lose Dan Hooker because there's not a ton on this as far as like a full, just every single fight is a banger kind of fight card. You know, we've seen the OC can put those together when it really wants to.

This one feels like we got a main event with a champion people love. We had a co-main event that seemed like it was going to be a guaranteed slug fest between Justin Gaethje and Dan Hooker. And the rest is, you know, some other fights that we had that we could put together. And then you lose Dan Hooker, you end up doing this rematch with Justin Gaethje and Javier Vazive where it's just kind of like, uh, nobody was sitting around wondering when those two were going to do it again, especially not right now. And so now you really are in a position where you're kind of trying to sell the

main event as the total sales pitch for this fight card, plus Justin Gaethje will be there and that, that's a little bit tougher of a pitch, I think, honestly. I mean, the good news is people do love Alex Pereira so much. I think there's a lot of interest among the people who really, really are, you know, among the hard cores, really inside the MMA bubble, where they've wanted to see how will he stand up to a test like this? Cause this has been the one thing people have said during this incredible speed run he's been on.

People will be like, okay, but what happens when he faces a wrestler who could really exploit that weakness in his game? And so now we're going to get a chance to find out, but it is, I mean, I don't worry too much for the way this will affect the UFC because they've got their business set up to this point where they make so much money just for putting on any fight. You know, they're, they're going to be fine. They would probably prefer it though. If you don't wake up Sunday morning with UFC light heavyweight champion, Magomed

Ankhalyev, uh, because you know what'll happen if he wins that title, he becomes champion, I guarantee you the way more prevalent and interesting discussion topic among MMA fans will be what next for Alex Pereira, because they'll be like, does he go to heavyweight now? Does he go down to middleweight again? People will be way more interested in speculating on the future for him and probably no less interested in whatever that future might be than they would be to settle in for a Magomedo-Ankaleyev title reign. Yeah.

I mean, you brought it up there. Shaheen, has he effectively cleared out the division if he wins this fight? Like is it time for you as far as you're concerned that he should take a look at heavyweight at this stage? I mean, become has it has an opportunity to become the first triple weight champion in the UFC, right? Like this is big stuff. He seems to be in this position where the UFC are talking about Jones' Aspinall. Dana White is on Jim Rome. He said that Jones would want that fight. He says that Jones is fighting the summer earlier in the week. We heard from Tom Aspinall's camp and what we hear from Tom Aspinall in

his video blog saying like doesn't say that didn't sound like he's all that confident says like the only thing you'll take after this is an undisputed title fight, which basically means if John doesn't fight him, he'd be he'd be stripped of the title and then Aspinal will be fighting someone for an undisputed title fight, undisputed heavyweight title. Do you think Pereira is a guy that could slot in there? And I know that the U6 of the world are in the air too. I don't quite want to go down that rabbit hole just yet. But do you think he is a guy who could be matched with an Aspinal if this Jones fight doesn't come together? Or do you think they just push Tom Aspinal to the side and do Jones v. Pereira?

I don't think there's any way they do that unless John vacates the title, which, you know, it remains to be seen whether that's going to happen or not. Um, it's a little like, there's a, still a lot of leaps. It feels like we need to take to get to even that point of the conversation. For me, the, the more interesting version of this is like, you asked me, does this, is this mean that Alex will have cleaned out the division if he wins this fight? And I think that depends on like what your definition of cleaning out the division is, right?

Because obviously at that point, we're looking at a place where essentially the biggest fights left for him are like a rematch with Jan Pukovic, Carlos Ulberg is coming up and that's maybe compelling and maybe Alexander Rakic and that's about it, man. And you, you look at any of those, like, I don't know that any of those is some monster payday, some monster pay-per-view, some like fight that fans are really eager to see, maybe Ulberg would be the most out of that, but just in general, all of that, like nothing really delights you in a way that Alex at Heavyweight does, or Alex

doing something real, real crazy and interesting with a big name does, right? But to me, it does feel like this fight in and of itself, like, despite the fact that everyone's kind of biting their nails about it and like no one's like you said it's kind of flying under the radar this fight to me is almost like the most important fight that Alex has had in the UFC since Maybe the fight to Greek into game the light heavyweight title, right? Like because the whole time through Magomed has been this guy like Magomed has been this guy that we have always kind of said

on the side like, oh, well, he's probably the best in this division or at least second. But you know, he's just not going to the UFC just hates him. So like we've always sort of pushed him to the side, but he has always been that I don't want to say boogie man, because he's certainly not that, but he has been that sort of lurking presence that has been kept at arms distance this whole time. And if Alex goes in here and just does what he does to everybody essentially and knocks out Magomed and Kalaya, I think the leap he takes historically, like I'm not one who likes to do these historical conversations before every fight. Sometimes I feel like it's not fitting, but to me, it feels like it kind of fits within this one where like if Alex goes in there and like really handles his business against

Magomed and Kalaya, the leap historically that he will take, at least in my eyes, and I think a lot of people's eyes, within the space of the UFC, within the space of light, heavyweight, just all of it. We're starting to talk about a really, really impressive run, legacy, whatever you want to talk about, man, because this is the one, this is the test. No one was looking at Jamal Hill versus Alex Pereira as like, oh man, Alex is all time great if he beats Jamal here. Same with Khalil Rountree, but this has just been sort of lingering in the distance for long enough and simmering for long enough

to where we have reached a real boiling point where I think a lot of people feel like Mogul Man is the kryptonite to whatever this is. And again, there's a lot of nail biting coming into this weekend about it. I think the jump that Alex takes historically from this, like he has, in a way he has the most to gain from this fight compared to any fight that he way he has the most to gain from this fight

compared to any fight that he had in 2024 in my eyes, at least. Cause I think if he comes out of this fight, smelling like roses, like we're, he vaults up to even another level to where we like, almost this man can just call his own shot and say, you know, now it's time for heavyweight, I want to do heavyweight or I want to do anything else. Like at that point, he can just,

he's the man in the UFC for the most part, when it comes to active fighters, he can just do anything he wants. And like, I'm very curious what the conversation will be light heavyweight in the light heavyweight range with him if he wins this fight. Because I feel like the conversation always with Alex is not in that sense of like, oh, he's an all time great middleweight. He's an all time great light heavyweight. We're more just in awe of what he has done in this short amount of time.

But I think that starts to shift a little bit if he wins, if that makes sense. It doesn't. Do you agree Ben? Are we getting a bit too excited here fantasizing about heavyweight matchups and even Usyk v. Pereta being a conversation point, probably because of all this TKO stuff, do you think, do you agree with Shaheen that like this victory in itself could be the cherry on top for his legacy as it stands at the moment?

Well, first of all, I'll say that if we do anything for the UFC heavyweight title next, that, that is not John Jones versus Tom Aspinal. If it's John Jones against somebody, not Tom Aspinal, I am going to post up in T-Mobile arena, like the Phantom of the Opera. Aspinall, I am going to post up in T-Mobile arena, like the Phantom of the Opera. I'm going to be up there in the rafters, dropping sandbags on people, dropping chandeliers into the cage because it can't go on like this. It cannot keep happening to Big Tom Aspinall that he walks around with an interim heavyweight title that he has to defend and doesn't get a chance to fight

for the unified heavyweight title. I just, I simply cannot allow it. Uh, gas hands Tom deserves better than that. But I do think the thing that it shows you is how much fun Alex Pereira just his, his legacy and his willingness to test himself is to just think about, because he was saying, you know, they asked him after UFC 300 against Jamal Hill, what do you think you'd go up to heavyweight? And he was like, yeah, sure.

I'd go up to heavyweight. He, he's the kind of guy he's not ruling any fight out really, especially the scary ones that you would think would be a big risk to him. That's kind of been his whole deal is that he's not trying to take it slow. He's diving right in there fighting as much as he possibly can and winning over and over again. And so it just makes you feel like what couldn't you do for this guy? What, and honestly, even if you were to lose this one, I think that though, the interest in stuff like whether it's a Usyk fight, whether it's something more

realistic in the MMA, uh, heavyweight division, I think that all that stuff would probably still be there for him. I don't think that he necessarily has to win this one in order for us to still care about Alex Prerara. That's one of the big differences between him and Uncle I have coming into this fight. Uncle Ive has to win. His whole thing is built on winning all these fights and if he loses, we go back

to not thinking about him. And if Alex Prerara loses, we just kind of go, all right, does Does that open the door for fun weird fights you could put Alex Brera in if he wins this though He will have cleaned out the light heavyweight division there's really not much else for him to do there and We'll be looking at him as I mean like a potentially three division UFC champion That's the kind of stuff we've never seen before. And that gets really people really excited. His willingness to take on those challenges, I think gets people really excited. Uh, so yeah, this is a huge fight for him in the sense that like legacy wise,

you're going to be talking about Alex Perez, one of the greats if he wins it, even if he doesn't though, we're still going to be interested in the man. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting as Shaheen mentioned, Janhovec, he mentions Carlos Ulberg, they're fighting of course on March 22nd in London. I think we will, before we hear about anything to do with a heavyweight move, if Pereta gets through Ann Golojeff, UFC are certainly going to tell us this

is the number one contender for you, and it should be, you know, they might just hang that over us until that fight's done and then they'll go on whatever way they're going to go. We'll put it at that stage. Should he win? Of course, I should keep on reminding people it's incredibly close on the bookies as well. I mean, uh, I saw briefly, Anka Lyov became a favorite. I think it was even when I looked at it today in terms of the bookmakers.

Ben, how, how much is the mystique and the idea of, of Anka Lyov being the avoided one is playing into these odds or do you feel it's just a skillset, it's just what he can do to put out a. You know, I think that there is truth to his claim that the UFC was protecting Alex Praher. I don't think it's so much the UFC was protecting Alex Praher. I think the UFC was protecting the UFC's profit margins. They know that Alex Praira is much better for business. Let's be honest, on the media side, Alex Praira is better for our

business as well. People are way more interested in clicking on stories about Alex Praira, reading about Alex Praira than they are about Magomed Onkhalayev. I don't know if we've got it up yet, Drake Frigg has a story on Magomed Onkalaev where you just, there's a point where you can feel him trying to be like, tell me something interesting about you, man. And he's just like, I like to ride horses. And we're like, all right, fine. I, I guess we'll take it, you know, and Alex Perez was just better for everybody's business in the MMA.

The fans get excited about him. He has so much fun stuff about him. He's got a catchphrase. He's got a signature entrance. Fans get excited about him. He has so much fun stuff about him. He's got a catchphrase. He's got a signature entrance. He does the invisible bow and arrow. We listen to the drums. It's terrifying.

He manages to have so much personality without even speaking any English for the most part. And so to go from that to Maga Benakali, like clearly the UFC was not in a hurry to make that fight because they were like, let's get a little more play out of the whole Alex Perera title run. Plus he's got such an exciting fighting style. You put him in there with other strikers, guys like Jamal Hill, guys in like Khalil Rountree, you're going to get a fun fight.

You put him into a fight against Maga Menon-Khalayev, you're going to find some things out. You're going to get him in an interesting test that does tell us something about his overall greatness as a fighter, but there's no guarantee you're going to get a fun fight out of it. And so this was sort of a last resort for them. I think that people can sort of see like, Hey, he has a skill set that could be a nightmare for Alex Pereira.

Then again, Alex Pereira is Alex Pereira, man. If he goes in there, defends one or two takedowns, lands that left hook, that could be it. You know, he doesn't need too many opportunities. So I think that that betting line honestly makes sense because this is a tough one to call. You can kind of talk yourself into believing almost anything. It's, it's interesting.

We're talking about Lyons, the bookies, Fizaev and Gachey, meaning again, Gachey won the first fight in London, I believe it was. Fantastic fight. He was the underdog going into that. Fizayev stepping up on short notice, facing Gaiji this time. Again, he is favorite. Shaheen, how concerned are you for Gaiji? Because he's coming off that shadow realm KO from Max Holloway. Not a situation we've seen him in a lot, you know, completely out the way he was. The most spectacular knockout of last year. I believe we all agree on that. How concerned are you with this rematch for Gaethje and how different do you expect him

to look at all against Vysoeva this time around? Concerned is an interesting word that you use there. Cause I don't know that I'm that concerned. To me, like it almost feels like people are piling dirt on Justin Gates. You way too early, if that makes any sense. Like the man got knocked out and it was an all time knockout. And like we saw it was after 24 minutes of just a hellacious beating. Like I fully understand that he's 36 years old in a division that doesn't really treat, you know, anyone 35 or older that well historically.

And those are all fair points. But to me, like, I need to see him decline before I'm going to say he's declined. And like that Max Holloway in there at UFC 300 would have beaten a lot of damn lightweights in the world. Like that Max Holloway that walked into that cage was probably like, at least in that moment, in time was like a top two or three lightweight,

it felt like, with the beating that he put on Justin Gaethje. Gaethje hasn't been knocked out before that since like, I think 2017 or 18. Like, and you know, like we've seen him over the years. Like he is not, when he first came into the UFC with the fights against Michael Johnson and just whatever, like I'm an Arizona guy. I was in the building for both the Luis Palomino fights or the World Series of Fighting days. Like that is not the Justin Gaethje.

That level of just chaos agent is not the Justin Gaethje that we have seen over the last four or five, six years in the UFC. You, we have certainly talked about it at length of just the transition of styles that he has sort of taken to be less of a car crash type of person and more of a technician. Like there's still elements of the car crash in there certainly, but not nearly to the degree when he's melting the house down with Palomino twice and you know, like whatever celebrity theater or wherever that was. So I just, I'm not willing to pile dirt on Justin Gagey. I still think he is a top lightweight

in the world. I still think he's almost like being overlooked here in a strange sense. If this was Fiziev coming in here with a full camp, having like fought relatively recently, not basically being the first fight post tearing your ACL. That's true. I think I would have more, I think I would sway more towards Fiziev in that sense. Um, cause obviously he's younger, you know, he has a little bit, he's a little bit, probably longer left to go to be in his prime years, but I just don't think this is an advantageous spot for Hefio Fiziev. Like it feels like he is just in a, you know, again, he's a short notice.

Like he hasn't fought in a really long time at this point. Gage Rust, whatever. Like you may, Dominic Cruz may say that's nothing. It certainly seems like it's something to some guys. I just, it's to me feels like this is actually a great spot for Justin Gatschy to remind everybody to have one of those y'all must forgot type of nights. Uh, because it just feels, again, I've seen everybody all over picking

Fizio in a way that seems very dismissive of Gaethje that is curious to me. What do you reckon Ben? Um, I mean, I, I, I picked Gaethje to win the first fight between these guys because I felt like Fizio had never been brought to that dark place that Gaethje brings people, you know, where it's like, Oh, holy shit, what is happening? Just, it just won't stop happening. And Gagee just on top of dudes, just bludgeoning them. He did get the nod. It was a very close fight. I guess, I guess my concern Ben is, and I do agree with Shaheen, I believe that we have seen Gagee become a far more technical fighter in the UFC. But I do still think that he will at some stage bite down on the gum shield.

He suffered that KO against Holloway. That's my concern. Um, do you share my concern or are you on Shaheen's side on this one? Does that feel like we've been saying that about Justin Gaiti for a while that we've been waiting for him to show up one night and all at once we see the result of all these wars that he's been in. That they'll just be too many miles on the odometer, he won't have it anymore and we'll say, well, that was inevitable. He's talked about it where he's saying, hey, I know the way I fight, you don't

fight that way indefinitely. Eventually that's going to take a toll on you. It seems like we thought it would happen by now. We thought just some of these battles he's been in would take their toll by now. Honestly, it feels like we've said the same thing about Max Holloway. We've said, Hey, as much as he fights, as much cage time as he spends, one of these times he's going to show up and it's just won't be there anymore. And honestly, Justin Gaethje had his moments in that fight. We all remember the end of it, but he still had some good moments, even after getting his nose broke right there in the first round by that spinning back kick.

I was sitting cage side for that one and you could hear the crack. That was definitely his nose breaking. And the fight changed a little bit after that, but he still managed to find his way back in it late. You know, the thing for me, I agree with Shaheen that this is a different fight under these circumstances than it was the first time and that it would be if you had just lined up to try to make this fight from the get go, because having Rafael Flauze come in here after being out for a while with that knee

injury, taking this fight on short notice, those things work against you big time. And I also think that his speed, his quickness in the striking game was a little difficult for Justin Gaethje to adjust to the first time. I don't know if it'll be that difficult for him this time. I think that he has a little better idea what to expect. And if, as long as Justin Gaethje doesn't show up and look completely depleted at this point, and you know, he's been in bad vice. He's been on the wrong end of it before.

I don't expect that just that one knockout of Max Holloway will put him in the trash bin. But as long as he's still got some of that Justin Gaethje stuff, there's a lot more variables on his side than Faziv has on his side. Let me just say real quick. I don't know if Ben meant this on purpose, but if so, bravo, because it was amazing. When he did the pause and then he said the crack from the nose, the pop on this side,

my mic was muted, the pop on this side was legendary. That was like seeing someone say the name of the movie in the middle of the movie like slipping it in there. You're doing the once upon a time in Hollywood, Decapparee pointing at the screen. It's beautiful work. That's why you're the best. That's amazing. The boys, the boys in the background, he talking about this when they were

judging face-offs, the best face-offs of all time was our pound for pound list yesterday, a mysterious Frank on his list brought in the film face-off. And they were talking about one of the most iconic face-offs ever. And they do say it at one point, I believe. John Travolta says, I'm going to take my face off. Oh, yeah. What a fucking film. A peach. I can eat a peach for hours.

Anyway, I'll go off on this tangent some other time. Last one I want to talk to you guys about today, Jalen Turner v. Ignacio Bahamundes. And a very interesting dynamic again in this way, I feel, because I feel like it's the first time we've kind of seen Turner on the other side of opportunity, meaning that it feels like this is Bahamundes' moment to build off Jalen Turner, which is a very dangerous game. And you can just ask an Adam Wicano, despite beating Jalen Turner, he had to overcome a big knockdown early on. He seems to knock down if he sneezes. Like he's unbelievably strong.

He is an unbelievable physique. Both the guys do it are both six three. At first time, I believe Jalen Turner is fighting someone the same height as him. I believe Ignacio has fought someone of a similar height before, but a very rare height, all the same for light heavy lightweights. Um, Shaheen, Ignacio Bahamundes. I feel like he is the Chilean Darren Till, Jalen Turner, a very, very good fighter, is it too much too soon for Mr.

Bahamundes? I feel like you just really slighted the man. Like his Chilean Darren Till, is that an insult or is that a compliment? A title contender in two divisions. All right. Put some respect on his name. Was he? But he was definitely in one.

He was in one. And then he came into the juggernaut that was Dricus Du Plessis at middle weight, gave him a good old going over in the first round there. And then unfortunately it was all over for Mr. Till. Chilean Darren Tillers. It's more of a facial structure thing for me in a, in a gait situation. No one's out there trying to be the Chilean Darren Till. That's definitely not what Ignacio Bahamendos is saying about himself.

You know that. That's like he's a massive fan. How do you not love Till? I mean, Jesus Christ. Uh, besides the fact of my horrific comparison, Bahamundes is this too much too soon? I don't see like, this is a very difficult question for me because like, I, I don't know if you know this.

I have had a train ticket to ride on the Jalen Turner express since the beginning. Like he's your new Tony Ferguson. He is your new Tony Ferguson. He was like kind of the inheritor of the... He's your new Tony Ferguson. He is your new Tony Ferguson. He was like, kind of the inheritor of the lightweight mantle for me with Tony Ferguson, where like, you see him once. Like, I remember the first, I still remember, I will always remember this. The first time I ever talked to this man,

it was before, right before his UFC debut, it was like at a UFC media day, it was back in the old media days, where it was like these cattle calls. Ben, Ben, you, he competes, you probably both remember, where it was just like everybody in a room, and it's just like, hey, you got an hour, go figure it out. Yeah.

Chaos. Everybody hated it. But everyone kind of liked it too. It was a great opportunity for some fighter to stand there lonely the entire time because nobody wanted to talk to him. Yeah. That was really sad. And then you get kind of like the, the pity interview. Like, Oh man, I've just been staring at you for like two minutes.

I got to ask you. Now you're going to turn my recorder on. Who's going to win the main event? I don't know. We just avoided eye contact. Just won't look at them. What? Didn't even see him.

Was he there? But like the first time, first time I ever talked to him was during one of those I don't know. We just avoided eye contact. Just won't look at them. What? Didn't even see him. Was he there? But like the first time, first time I ever talked to him was during one of those for his UFC debut. And it's like, Oh, you know, you're the, you're the tarantula. Like can you tell me why you're the tarantula? And he tells me this awful, horrific story about like how he has all these tarantulas,

all these spiders. And at that point he lived with his mom. He's like telling me about how he had like one of his spiders gave birth to a bunch of babies and she had like hundreds and hundreds of spider babies in this crate or whatever, you know, like container for this thing. And then he's out one day and this somehow the crate falls and like all the spider babies go everywhere in the house and just invest the whole house. And like the whole house is just, it is just like thousands of spider babies at that point in the house. And it's like, your mother still lets you live with her?

Like, what are you telling me right now? This is an actual horror movie that you were describing to me. And he's like, oh no, you know, it's okay. They're just babies. And it's like, dude, you and I have very different perspectives of what's normal and okay. But from that point on, it's like, okay, this is my guy.

Like, this is a very unique character. He's like a giant for this division, right? Like he's a six foot, six foot one dude and fighting lightweight, like, inherently. Six three. Six three, like, that is inherently interesting to me. Very long, very rangey, very destructive as well. Like, he was getting all those knockouts earlier in his career.

And it's like, I'm hitching my ride to this guy. I think he can be good. And it has been such a difficult ride. Like, there is not, other than McKenzie Dern, who I also did that early on, there has been no one I am more conflicted with to ride, to ride on the train with them than Jalen Turner, because there's been so many moments where it's just like, oh man, can you just, can you just use your gifts in the right way?

Please? I know you're so close. There is a real world where this man is nine and oh, over his last nine fights. Like the three losses that he has, right? The two split decisions. And then the Moikano fight where he completely has it and then just lets it off the hook trying to get a walk off and like loses in the next round.

Like there is a real world where Jalen Turner is like an actual top three lightweight right now or competing for championships. And we're just not there. And the fact that we're not there is so frustrating to me, but like I'm not, you know, I'm a loyal guy, Pete. I'm a loyal guy. So it's like, it's hard for me to,

there's been nothing that I've seen along the road that I'm a loyal guy. So it's like, it's hard for me to, there's been nothing that I've seen along the road that would dissuade me from the fact that like, okay, at some point he's going to put it together because he is so close on all of these different opportunities. He's so close. So you asked me initially,

like is this too much too soon for Bahamutas? I tend to think so, just because I still do think Jalen Turner is elite. I think he is still there and he's just really got a rough run of it lately. But this is maybe the type of fight that could turn that around. And one of those confidence builder fights, but I'll tell you, if he loses this one, then, you know, I think the tenor of every conversation around

Jalen Turner changes and we look back at someone that could that almost not like a lot of what if, but like a someone who had a couple of breaks, broken the other way for him. He would have had a much different career. So it's, it's definitely a crossroads fight. No very curious moment for both these men. I think. Jaheem, was it you who wrote, I remember when we worked at the athletic, I don't know if it

was you who wrote it or if Chad wrote it, a story about Jaylen Turner talking about how he had fallen on some hard financial times, trying to get from one fight camp to the next and had to sell some of his spiders and it just like that phrase where I was just like, what does that transaction look like? Are you meeting somebody in a parking lot outside of a target and being like, all right, I brought the spiders. Did you bring the cash? And being like, all right, I brought the spiders. Did you bring the cash? Like that, the whole thing, I just, I don't want to think about it

because it weirds me out, but I also find it impossible not to think about it. It's like the fucking prequel to a arachnophobia or some shit with this fucking story that is absolutely insane. When he brought the tarantula that time to weigh-ins and he was a standing there like on the scale, like flexing with one arm and holding the other hand out with his open palm. And there's a tarantula sitting in there. And so that moment where you could feel everybody kind of going,

wait, was that in your pocket? Did you, did you just, do you walk in here today? Like carrying a tarantula, like you got on a little bus from the hotel. You came all the way over here and the entire time you had a tarantula, like you got on a little bus from the hotel. You came all the way over here and the entire time you had a tarantula secreted away on your person, because that sounds like a thing that has actually showed up in my nightmares. I can't even imagine it. Well, there you go.

I said, I said before, when we were in the pre-show that the only two things I'm afraid of in life are bears and heights. I think you just unlocked a new fear in me, Ben. Velajos pulled out a fucking spider that we were walking down the road. He's like, ah, you'd be fucking, you'd be fairly scared. Let's be honest. I'd shit myself. Um, look, it's going to be a great card.

Those top three fights. Very, very interesting. There's a whole host of fights on this card. Of course, we even got Curtis blades, uh, King green against Mauricio Rufi. That is the first time I have ever correctly used the term King green, the name King green against Mauricio Rufi. That is the first time I have ever correctly used the term King green the name King green I'm very proud of myself for doing that because that's his name King green I wanted to ask you guys. Well, I have you here about this boxing story. I don't know if you heard about this guys Big story early in the week. I know it's not you know, it's not MMA

But a big boxing story involving MMA with Dana White and the Saudis coming together to create a boxing league that we're referring to as TKO boxing, not the official title as far as Turkey Al-Ashique is concerned. I saw him on Pat McAfee's show with Dana White. We have a bit of a video here just to, in case anyone's been living under a rock for the last few days, here is the announcement of what we're calling TKO boxing, I guess. What's up guys. We have just done a deal to start a new boxing league with Turkey who absolutely

loves the sport of boxing. I am very happy today. I give the flag of boxing to the best man who can handle it. He has a tough job now, but I am sure he will be delivering to the people and the fans the magnificent league and get boxing great again. The model is proven to deliver the fights that the fans want to see. The best will fight the best and the fighters will continue to move up the rankings and become world champions. We will continue to make announcements on where you can watch and all the rest

of the details on the business as we get closer to the launch. I'll see you soon. Well, that was a lot. That what's up guys was really hit hard there. I don't know about you guys, we're wearing headphones. Here's the Jesus what's up guys was really hit hard there. Don't know about you guys. We're wearing headphones here. It's like, Whoa, Jesus, what's up guys? Me now. Nobody has ever told Dana white, you don't need to yell when you're talking into a microphone. He does it all the time.

He's closet. He's really good at it to be fair. Um, we've listened to interviews all weeks, uh, lads about this. We heard Ariel's breakdown of it on the shows earlier this week. It seems to be the modus operandi here is the destruction of all of the boxing organizations and at least an amendment to the Ali act. Um, Shaheen does that seem doable to you? Like just, just that grand vision that they seem to have of getting rid of these

three title, uh, three letter organizations, even though TKO, but I don't get into it, but you know, uh, and then the Ali act, which was brought in in 2000 has been very, very important, I'd say for boxers. Does that seem doable to you from the offset here? Does it seem doable as an interesting way to frame that? Cause I don't really know what's doable anymore, right? Like, like, what does that actually mean at this point? Cause it kind of feels like we're living in a world

currently where you can kind of just do stuff and no one's gonna stop you or there's no like, whatever like mechanisms are in place that are meant to stop it and just don't function in the way that they really should anymore. And so like, I don't know, is it doable? Yeah, man. It seems like with enough money,

anything is doable at this point. Like if they put enough money behind getting is doable at this point. If they put enough money behind getting rid of the Ali Act, what's going to save it? I have no faith in any of these institutions at this point to stand behind something and save something like that, if there's enough money going the other way. And same with just in terms of the organizing boxing, in a sense, where you are destroying the Queensberry promotions, the Golden Boys, the top ranks. Like if I am any of those guys, if I'm Bob Aron, or I'm maybe not Bob Aron, because Bob Aron's like 95 years old.

But if I'm like Oscar De La Hoya, or I'm like Frank Warren, or any of these guys, like I am looking at what happened over the course of this week with genuine fear. Because this is like the WWE playbook, right? Like this, like we saw Vince do this way back in the day of wrestling was essentially all these like segmented fragmented out territories where each kind of territory had like a big almost like UFC esque type of promotion. And then Vince just said, no, and smashed it all into one ball. And the UFC for the most part, like it didn't do it at all in one fell swoop,

but did it gradually over the course of a couple of decades of, you know, piece mewling off the best of WEC, the best of Strike Force, the best of Pride, and just sort of doing the same thing and putting it into one conglomeration, amalgamation of just like, Hey, this is the UFC now and that's it. If I mean, the WWE and the UFC are TKO, right? So like we have already seen within this one company that is now doing this, this, this system work in the exact same way twice, maybe in different manners in those two different instances, but like the end goal reached the same end goal. So like if I'm anybody, if I'm any of these dudes out in boxing, maybe not Eddie Hearn

to some degree, because it feels like Turkey and Eddie Hearn are much closer than a lot of these other promoters are with Turkey. And like, I would imagine Turkey would see a use for Eddie Hearn because he is such a great promoter and such a great orator and speaker and just the way he promotes these fights. So I'm sure he would have a place within this. But like if I'm anybody else, I am terrified of what happened this week, because it feels like this is almost the beginning of the end of whatever that would be for boxing.

Because boxing, like the centrifugal force in boxing right now is Turkey. He is the primary agent within which all of the, like he is the sun and the rest of the whatever is, are the planets and stars that orbit around him at this point. He has done this within a span of essentially a year and a half, and it is incredibly impressive, but also, but also it's just like, if you have unlimited money, I guess that's, you could kind of organize yourself in that way. So like, if this is what the sun, if this is what the center of the universe in boxing is now going to try to accomplish, what's going to stop him?

Like, legitimately, like what is there, what, what, what mechanisms or foundations are in place within boxing, which is very fragmented in of itself, often frustratingly so, or at least before the past couple of years, what's going to stop him from doing this, from enacting this? Cause it doesn't feel to me like there's anything really. It's interesting you put it that way, cause that's exactly how I felt all week. And I felt like, I felt like I was missing something all week. Like I was listening to Ariel, I watched Stephen A Smith, a lot of people talking about this and it nearly comes across to me, Ben, like this is an open goal.

Just walk in, take the sport. And it just, there's part of me, as Jaheem kind of mentioned there, like, surely it's not this easy, but it appears to be either those guys who know a lot more about boxing than I do are very wrong or I don't know. It just feels like, it does seem like this is an open goal essentially. And that is what I am struggling to get my head around Ben. Yeah. I mean, I agree with Shaheen that we are living in the age of breaking stuff. It is very easy right now to break even longstanding institutions and just tear it down and do whatever you want.

It's probably a little bit harder to build new things though. It's one thing to just completely wreck the existing structure, but then what comes after that, and that's the part we still haven't seen yet. I think the difficulty is, I agree that the, a lot of other people in boxing should be worried about this because you're, so you got somebody coming along. How do you compete with a guy who doesn't care if he makes his money back? How, a guy who has so much money, he can just throw into it. And even if they're all losing ventures, so what he doesn't mind that that is really difficult to go up against.

And frankly, I don't think that they're ready for it. And especially when you see the kind of powerful forces that TKO could bring to bear on this, you know, if you're looking at the all E act as a hurdle, they got a friend in the white house who owes them some favors and who is not exactly the kind of guy who would be like, no, it would be improper for me to step in and do this for you. No, absolutely not.

So all of these things that might be barriers to them completely taking over the sport are probably easily swept aside. The question is, what does that actually look like when you do it? Because it's interesting to me, they keep referring to this as a boxing league. You know, I don't know what that means to have a boxing league. League has been the kind of thing that frankly, a lot of fight sports have tried to stay away from that terminology just because you run the risk of triggering an antitrust issue. As soon as you start talking about it yourself as like a league

that owns all this stuff. And now the UFC settled that antitrust case last year, still managed to be profitable even after settling it for hundreds of millions of dollars. They probably feel like we're not concerned about any of that anymore. But still the structure that we've been told to expect here is the Saudis putting in all the money, TKO getting a fee for operating it. That was the version they laid out on that earnings call last week. As I said, we stand to make 10 million plus as the operator and promoter of these events.

But Mark Shapiro stressed over and over again on that call. We are not taking any risk. We are not putting any money into this. We get some earned equity if it hits certain targets over the next five years, but we are not going all in on this as a venture. We are just collecting a fee to run it for now. So I think there's still a lot of questions about what it actually looks like. I'm just surprised we haven't heard more outcry from the other people who stand

to be completely muscled out of the business here. I wonder if that's it. Are they organizing now? Like you'd imagine, right? There's a, there's absolutely a situation where promoters and these organizations, WBA, WBC, WBO, whatever, they're banding together to kind of, you know, they're forming a kind of a line in the sand. They're all standing together and saying, we aren't allowing

this to happen. I expect to see that at some time. I think we've all talked about the fact we don't know when this is happening. We expect there to be more turbulence here. I anticipate as soon as the guys start getting cut out of situations, I even saw Turkey, LL Sheik, I believe was a Canelo face off where he pushed away one of the belts, they were trying to bring one of the belts out to Stan and he was like, yeah, remove that from the equation. A very, you know, the video footage was a representation of what these are effectively trying to do.

New York, Rick had a great point on the boys in the back yesterday when he was talking to GC about this, he said, one of the most likely ways this falls apart is the two egos in the room clashing, as in you have Turkey, allah chic, you have Dana White guys who are used to beating, to marching to the beat of their own drum, suddenly they are in tandem here with this organization. Do you think that could be a potential, I don't know, potential for friction down the line between Dana and Turkey, given their statuses in both their sports?

We're talking about Turkey being at the center of the boxing world after just 18 months. Certainly Dana White is one of the key figures in combat sports as well. Could there be a potential clash down the line there? I mean, maybe, you know, you never know with two personalities like that. It does feel like this is not, I think it would be a different conversation if it was Turkey coming into MMA and essentially trying to do something like that in MMA with Dana White. We're like, that's Dana White's place of expertise. Like he's not going to hear what you're saying essentially, because he thinks he's the man. And realistically, like he is when it comes

to that, like he just doesn't have any use for your advice. Whereas with this one, like Turkey, like I said before, like he is the center of the universe in boxing right now. So he has already established himself as that presence. I think Dana comes over here. It seems to me like Dana is the center of the universe in boxing right now. So he has already established himself as that presence. I think Dana comes over here. It seems to me like Dana is often fairly deferential to someone who he respects as his peer rather than someone he is above, right? Where I feel like he very much looks at Turkey as his peer,

as someone who is very skilled and very adept at navigating this particular space. And so I would think at least in the beginning, like, you know, who knows what this looks like five years from now, Dana White will be very deferential to the ideas that Turkey has and is bringing to this. And also not for nothing, but it does, like Ben said, like, it feels as if this is still going to be a Saudi funded, primarily organization where like they are the muscle behind this.

They are the backing. They are the financial responsibility behind all of this, whereas TKO is just being paid out of fee. And so it's just, I don't know, man, I don't know how this doesn't end up unless again, unless this just ends up like boxing is just too set in its ways and too old to be able to fall prey to these types of things. I don't know how this doesn't end up being a situation where all of this is circumvented because you look at boxing right now, like boxing is inherently so confusing. If you talk to someone who's not a boxing fan and you're trying to explain to them the nuances of

like, well, okay, so you're in the you're in the welterweight division, that guy's a champion. Oh, but that guy's also a champion. And that guy's also a champion. And that guy's also a champion. And if you if one of those two guys fights, then you can call them a unified champion, because they have more than one. But then if they end up with all four, you can call them an undisputed champion. Like inherently, that doesn't make sense to a lot of people. Like there is just such a hurdle to try to figure out this out, whether it's with the number of divisions to it, the promotional entities, or I should say the, not the promotional entities, but essentially like the sanctioning bodies, WBA, WBO, WBC, IBF, like all of this is so like just cumbersome inherently to the layman that I think it's just

sitting there waiting for it. Because it doesn't feel like those organizations are going to be able to work together in that sense because they have essentially been competing against one another for so long. Like to be able to then all of a sudden turn around and just say, okay, like guys, this is the end for us unless we band together. I just, I guess my experience being a boxing fan and now covering boxing is like, it just feels like it's too fragmented. And it is just, it is not collective in a way where like, it feels that would be something that can actually happen.

Is all these entities coming together to work together to save themselves? It feels like instead they will just be single-handed, like single-handedly solely alone, drowning one by one by one until they are rendered irrelevant for perhaps a system that makes more sense to the layman. Where if you have one champion, where if you have, you know, hey, this is the ring champion or whatever they want to call it.

Like that to me, it feels like a very, I don't know, again, if you have unlimited resources essentially, and you have someone who has built things similar to this, I struggle to see why this doesn't end up just in this final place, whether it's two years from now, five years from now, like how for long it takes. Yeah. I think it's going to be a massive, massive thing. It's just incredible to me how quickly it's all happened and how quickly people are anticipating them effectively taking over the sport. I think that's, that's a culture shock for me.

Like this news broke during the week and a few hours later we're like, well, there goes boxing guys. Well done TKO boxing. Incredible moves of course. And speaking of big fights, Taylor Serrano three. We're going to just touch on this. I know it's a boxing fight. I know you people get very upset with us in the comments for talking about boxing, but huge, huge fight. MSG again, I was at the first one absolutely brilliant a real a real coronation moment for Katie Taylor of course the second fight on Netflix this one on Netflix again um I see a lot of positive reaction in the US and look a lot of positive reaction over here in Ireland but one of the questions I got on the announcement was lads, what happened to Krog Park? Weren't we promised Krog Park again? You said you'd do it.

Of course, the historic stadium here in Dublin on the north side of Dublin, I should say, it's a GAA pitch. It is very historic. It is our national stadium for years and years. We were hoping that we would see a combat sports fight here. Initially there was talks of Conor McGregor, then we thought it definitely would be Katie Taylor because she is such a national treasure. Eddie Herron talked about complications he had with the GAA.

That's the governing body that oversees Gaelic football and hurling and handball. And they said they didn't really want to play ball. He said it'd be cheaper to put it on a Wembley, but here we are at MSG again. Absolutely huge. Can I just ask Ben, like how, how big was that fight on the Netflix card? Because people have been saying this and I hear an awful lot about it. Obviously the world was there to see Jake, Paul and Tyson, but then this Serrano and Taylor fight seemed to be one of the great kind of victories of that

night, right? Like everybody came away. I feel like it really helped people come away with a sense of, I'm glad I watched that because they put on such a brilliant fight that night. First of all, as an American, I am not even convinced that Croak Park exists because I hear you guys talk about it. I've heard Conor McGregor tease those fights. I hear every once in a while, somebody will come out here and be like, yeah,

we'll do it at Croak Park. It'll be a huge, like it might as well be Narnia the way that we experience it. We're just like, it's this thing that is out there. It's going to be huge, but I have seen no evidence that there is actually a place, a real place on the planet named Croak Park that you could have a fight. It just is, is some kind of fantasy land, but you're right. I think the, the way that unfolded on the Jake Paul Mike Tyson card is exactly what a promoter is hoping to do in that situation, because you have the, the

candy in the main event that's just got no calories and no nutritional value to it, but it gets people in the door. You dangle it out there and they're going to wander in off the street to watch it free on Netflix. You're hoping that when they come in the store, they see some of the other good stuff that you have. And you got, you know, what they say was 74 million people to sit there and watch that second fight between Katie Taylor and Mena Serrano. That should translate into a pretty good audience, especially if you're going to turn around and do it on Netflix.

Again, you're not making the mistake that promoters often make in this situation where, Hey, we showed you this thing, we got you a little bit interested in it, right? All right. Now pay us $80 on pay-per-view to watch it. And you don't get people to make that, that huge leap. You can get people to show up for it on Netflix. And especially you have the thing where you're doing an all female card.

That will be interesting to a lot of people who watched that fight, who don't normally watch boxing fights. You can, you can get some of that audience back that you had then. And that was genuinely a huge event. Like we joke about how, you know, what a joke of a fight it was, the, the Jake Paul Mike Tyson thing, but it was one of the only times in combat sports in my lifetime that it felt like the entire world stopped to watch one fight and watch one fighting event. And so now you have the best piece of that, the piece people, if they remember it, they probably

go, that was the one real fight that I remember seeing on that fight card. Now I get to watch them do it again, a bunch of other fights. And when you do it in Madison square garden, apologies to Croak Park, to a lot of Americans. If you say we got a big boxing match, it's happening in Madison square garden. What their brains here is it's real. This must be big. We're doing it in Madison square garden.

The granddaddy of them all. We're doing it right there in the like media epicenter of New York. Plus we know promoters love it because it can charge a whole lot more for tickets there. Uh, it just, I see why that's where they landed and, and not Croke Park, if in fact it does exist. I don't like the way you laughed as you said, Croke Park there. All right then.

Okay. It's a real place. It's my turn to take the piss. It's my turn to take the piss now. And well, well piss taken. I don't even know if that's an expression, but, uh, all women's card, it's something we probably won't see a lot of, uh, from TKO box. You see,

it's probably fair. Pizzi, let me ask you though, because I've been very curious and I've had a chance to talk to you about this. Is, is there a level, like, what was the reaction to this for you guys in Ireland, cause I know like, I understand was the reaction to this for you guys in Ireland? Cause I know like I understand like the level of celebrity and like sort of iconic figure that Katie represents for you guys just in terms of the purity of sport

and like everything that she represents. But like she's two and oh in this matchup. Every single time they've teased Croke Park and then just doesn't happen. Is there an element of like in Ireland like like a, are they just going to keep running this back until they finally give Amanda a win and like B is there an element of like, why can't we just get this in croak park? Like what is their level of disappointment to this?

Or is it just people being excited? Cause obviously it's a great fight. It turned into a witch hunt at one stage over here. Like who is to blame for this not happening because I think like the croak park thing you said, yeah. So like with the Connor stuff, like I can't tell you how much revered this place is like the one of the famous stands, Hill 16 it's built out of the rubble of the civil war here.

Like it's, it's crazy. Like people, like during, like the British army came in and just started shooting into the crowd there. during, like the British army came in and just started shooting into the crowd there. Back in the, the, the early 19 hundreds. Like it's, it's a, this is a place that is basically the epicenter of Irish identity. When we were under British rule, they found Gaelic football to like, to differentiate from English people. Like this is our sport.

This is what we're about. They have this massive stadium. Then everybody shows up. So all the different counties in Ireland, when they reach the final of the all Ireland tournaments, they go there. Like it is like a pilgrimage for many people around Ireland to go and watch their team playing Crowe Park. When Heron said he was going for for crow park and then suddenly everything went quiet

and Irish people were like trying to figure out who to blame. Do we blame matchroom? Do we blame the GAA? Like there was lots of this stuff going on, but at this stage, I feel like we've hit the compassion fatigue stage of it where it's like where we're like Ben now and we're like, is there a crow park? Can we actually do fights here? The problem with it is, as well, is it's right in the middle of Dublin city centre and if you're going to put on an event there with 80,000 to 90,000 people leaving afterwards, it's going to be a disaster. There is a residence association there who take money from the likes of Garth Brooks and all of these pop backs that come in and use this venue.

Like there is strict curfews if they go over that they are fined an awful lot of money. And we know with the UFC and with boxing, the pay-per-view market is in the US. So if you can't do these events during the night, you're missing out on a lot of money. So unfortunately, that's where we're at. I gave a pope on this a long time ago. I thought if it was going to be someone who would be Katie because she is basically a saint here. You know, people like Shaheen, I know I wrote an article for her on crown when, when the second fight went off at Netflix and we had, we spoke to a journalist, Kieron Cunningham,

very well respected boxing journalist here. And he was disgusted that she would be involved in this stuff, despite the massive spotlight that it would put on women's boxing, despite the huge platform would give our best export, Katie Taylor, people in Ireland were like, there's a lot of people as Kieron agree, were like, she shouldn't be anywhere near this. Jake Paul, Mike Tyson, given his checkered past, she shouldn't be anywhere near this. In the end, I think it was a good idea for that to happen. It's a massive, massive fight And very much looking forward to it before we go to our picks lads any guesses on what the Iliya Topuri announcement is he teased us earlier this week with a tweet here. It is there the great on air Jordan Sorry about the Avron challenge on air Jordan. I should have brought this up earlier

Don't mention the war here. He says when we announce it you won't believe it Get ready. Are you ready Shaheen al Shadi? He says, when we announce this, you won't believe it. Get ready. Are you ready Shaheen al-Shadi? The phrasing on it is very interesting to me because like I think it's gotta be Islam. I don't see a world where this is anything but Islam. And it's just a matter of views.

But we would believe that, right? Like if he, like that's- There's nothing else would make any actual sense. But that's what I'm saying, the phrasing, like I would actually, no, yeah, I would believe that. I would expect that. That sounds. Yeah.

That's what it made me worried a little bit when he said like, you won't believe it. I went, Oh, does that mean I won't believe it because no one was even thinking about this as a possibility for you? Because Islam is the thing everybody is hoping for and expecting. And the thing that seems to make the most sense for everybody involved. And so if you're telling me like you won't even believe when we announce it, that tells me you're not gonna do the thing that we all expect and want. That's because it's the winner of Jalen Turner versus Bahamundas.

This is all set up for us. It's all set up for us. No, I mean, it's got to be Islam, right? Like it has to be Islam. None of this actually makes sense. And you saw Malki Malki Kawa, Ilya's agent on the, on the Ariel Awani show, just basically say like, come on guys, like, yeah, do you think I'm going to let this happen if like, that's not what this is for? The UFC just needs to pay Islam whatever amount of money that they, that, you know, he's asking for.

I, in a sense, like, I understand if I'm Islam too, like, obviously this is the biggest fight for Islam would be fighting Ilya Tupori right now within the lightweight division, sort of pecking order and space. But like, if I'm Islam, I am getting a little tired of like, guys, how many times are you going to make me fight a featherweight? Like people are going to look at my, like this all time greatest lightweight legacy ever and pick holes in it forever. If it's just like, Hey, that was the featherweight champion. Hey, that's a featherweight champion. Hey, that's a featherweight champion.

But you're going to make so much more money than you would to rematch Armin Suruki in. People are, yeah, people can pick apart your legacy, but you will be sitting on a giant pile of cash like the Joker and just being like, Oh, you guys can say what you want. Uh, this really worked out for me, especially because like, those are more winnable fights for Islam. Like those are the ones that he should win. Is it taking on smaller guys coming up?

Like that plays really well into his strengths. So if I'm Islam, there's no reason not to, especially if you're in a position where you are getting a cut of those pay-per-views, Ilya is going to bring the pay-per-view buys with him. You don't even really have to do anything. And no one else that's really on the horizon for Islam can say that. So this is a, an easy one. It ought to be an easy one for everyone. That's why I got concerned when he was like, you won't believe it.

Because I was just like, that makes me think that we're doing something dumb because that's what I would not believe if we missed an opportunity to do Ilya Tuporiya versus Islam Mahajay for, that would be a huge fight. I absolutely agree with what Malki said. He was like, the only fight you could do that might be bigger than this one, you know, conceivably this year would be John Jones versus Tom Aspital. Like other than that, this is the biggest possible fight you can make in that division, he's absolutely right about that.

Agree with everything you have said lads, but you did say something dumb. So here I am appearing before you like an apparition with a hypothetical boys. All right. Hypothetical. If it wasn't, if it isn't that for you, we all agree. It should be absolutely should be. Patty Pimla beats Chandler. Stop it right now. Potty Pimlet beats Chandler. Get out. Stop it. Stop it right now. Let me finish this. Potty Pimlet.

Velia Toporia. In Spain. Would you be okay with it? I'm just saying it's a hypothetical. I mean, the hand sanitizing, baby. You got the hand sanitizer backstory. I'm in. Why not, Ben?

I mean, come on. It's fun. He's right. I wouldn't believe that. I would be like, how did we screw this one up so badly? That's what I would be wondering. Yeah. You know, they have done that before.

I just, I find it hard to believe that we're getting both. Have they done that before? Well, I mean, they've given me a Pizzi, give me one champion who was a reigning sitting champion who did not. Immediately fight for a title in the, in the division upwards outside of like Anderson Silva, just being like, I don't give a shit, just give me James Irving. I don't, I don't mean that. Um, I don't mean like that exact situation, but they've screwed the

pooch when there's obvious fights to make, you know, in Ghanu Jones, we're seeing it happen with Jones Hospital now. I find it hard to believe that we will get both of these fights this year. That's where I'm at. Pete Slauson Because you don't believe that God will let you be happy. That's what this is about. Jared Slauson That's it! Pete Slauson I mean, he's been in this sport long enough, I kind of understand that sentiment. Jared Slauson 15 years! Pete Slauson Your Irish fatalism just doesn't believe

that good things could happen. And I get that. I hope we can. I understand. To me, it just feels like, like I understand we have a level of cynicism of just like, well, we haven't gotten X, we haven't gotten Y.

Like it's possible that they're going to do it to us again. I just can't, in this instance, man, I feel like the UFC views Ilya Tupori as the closest possible version of like the next Conor McGregor that they can, that they can conceivably come up with within the next like several years, right? Yeah. Just because of what he's already done.

He's the, he's charismatic, obviously good looking dude. Like he's got a lot of stuff going for him. He has a country behind him. He has two countries behind him. Yeah. Like the, everything, everything within my experience of being in the sport for as long as I have tells me that the UFC has earmarked this guy for like, Hey, that's potentially the next guy. And we learned our lessons also from Conor McGregor. And so we know what not to do in terms of like letting him off the chain as much as they did with Connor. I just don't think that they would mess this up because that's like a very real scenario

where if he fights Islam and then that's the fight and that's like the centerpiece of whether it's International Fight Week or whatever, just like a big fight, basically the biggest fight of 2025 if we don't get John Jones Aspenall. And Ilya goes in there and he knocks out Islam Akhachev and it's just craziness. And he's on at that point, probably the greatest three fight run in the history of professional mixed martial arts. You're looking at like a legitimate, probably the second biggest star in the history of this sport. Maybe I think at that point he surpasses probably whatever John Jones or GSP or

any of these guys have done just in terms of the amount of hype and like people who will want to be behind him and just the fan base and just everything. Like, I just think at that point, you are looking at like a rocket ship that is just clean off into the solar system. Like it's just, I don't think that they know that and I don't think they want to drop that. No, it's fair. It's fair.

Oh, it's just hypothetical boys. That's all I was doing. All right. Everyone, everyone fucking relax. Okay. Before we, uh, before we go, let's pull up the picks. Uh, I just didn't want them on the show this week because I'm fucking sick of seeing them at the top of this table. Chuck Mendenhall, the streets will run red with

Mendenhall's blood this weekend because I'm coming. I have two fights. I can come back at you with today to Chuck. You have picked differently, different than me on two fights. That means all I need is a clean sweep. And I'm right up there with you. We are all lads six and three. And it's bullshit that we're all six and three and I'm at the bottom. I realize we're doing it alphabetically. I get it.

But if you just look at the standings, you would think Ben is just doing terribly way down there. And I'm bottom. Oh, it's doing terribly. He's way down there. Second bottom? Aw. It's so close. I'm right in it. You know, you guys are acting like a basement dweller. We need to all look at each other and ourselves and just have a real moment of reflection because we are one loss away from being Frank.

We don't want to be Frank. I love you, Frank. We don't want to be Frank, guys. We got to have a good week. Oh my God. Jordan, pull that graphic back up. Pull that graphic back up. Look, Frank's gone for King Green in the first fight, so we can...

Look, so did I, Pizzi. And I didn't... Oh my God. I don't know what the hell I was doing when I did it. I was juggling a lot of stuff. Look, I got a lot of things going on here. Oh, here we go. I regret that immediately.

I regret it immediately. Oh my God. Yeah, so let's just have a of things going on here. Oh, immediately. I regret it immediately. Oh my God. Yeah. So right. Right. Let's just have a look at our picks here. Uh, green, you've gone for it. Are you guys surprised by the lack of ankle?

I have picks because I was very surprised by the lack of ankle. I have picks. I'm a little bit as the Danbury native is one of the ankle. I have picks that tells me that he's on something that we're not. He was in the camp. I mean, this is terrifying for me. He wrote that brilliant article about, uh, the spirit of Pereira flowing through Connecticut, and then he goes and picks on Koliakov. What the fuck?

He saw something in those rounds against action, Bronson. He didn't like it. Or, I mean, or he, he's conscious enough to be like, Hey, everybody's going to be like, I'm an Alex Pereira homer just because I can get in the car and drive down to his gym. If I pick on Koliakov, it'll seem like be like, I'm an Alex Brera Homer just because I can get in the car and drive down to his gym. If I pick on Kalaya, it'll seem like I'm playing it a little straighter. I get that. Or, you know, it's what worries me is that Chuck has been doing so well in the picks.

He's taken the piss? He's eight and one. And when the guy who is doing so well in the picks has different picks than you, you have to take a step back and be like, he seems better at this than me. So what does that tell me? It's at the stage where when the graphic comes out, I get worried when I see you chokes picked, I'm like, oh shit, oh no, what am I done? Guys, we've been doing this since October, which how many months is that at this point?

Like five, six months, six, five months. That man's lost one fight. One fight since October. I have, I'm at the point where, cause I'm the one soliciting these picks. I'm at the point now where like, every time that someone sends in their picks and they're aligned with Chuck, I'm getting like freak outs of like, yes, I'm back on with Chuck. All right.

Everybody like, I want to point out the one, the one that he lost. Wasn't it, uh, picking against Zhang Wai Li. It was. And you know who sat here on this show in this seat and told you all that you were sleeping on Zhang Wai Li. It was this handsome fellow right here. this seat and told you all that you were sleeping on Zheng Wai Li. It was this handsome fellow right here. It's still second last as far as I can see man. All I see is you being the second worst.

I won the big rivalry game. It's like a college football season. You know, Hey, you, you, you went seven and three got knocked out in the first round of the playoffs, but you beat Montana State, you still can feel good about something that is my personal rivalry game right there. Benjamin, Benjamin, this is like the old school Mortal Kombat one ladder. You're like the very beginning of the ladder.

You're like the easiest possible computer. And we're over here. Chuck's over here, Shang Tsung. Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, you know? That's beautiful. That's what I'm telling you. We're all on Pereira, I believe. You know, that's beautiful. That's what I'm telling you.

We're all on Pereira, I believe. Yes, we are. When both of you on Gaiti were, as I went with the favorite, Fasoyev this time, I've turned my back on Justin Gaiti for this one. I'm going with Fasoyev. We're all on Turner. Both me and Shaheen are on Lemos. Lucindo, Ben Fogues going with the younger athlete in this one, a big age gap there of

14 years. Lucindo certainly hasn't had the fights that Lemos has, but she is certainly an up and comer. And then we both have Rufy and just like mysterious Frank, Shaheen has King Green. I don't know what I'm doing. Look man, first fight's gonna be a treat for everyone apart from you and Frank. How about he jump it? He's well all, it's going to be a treat for everyone apart from you and Frank. He's well capable. He's well capable. But listen, lads, I'm looking forward to it.

Real quick. Let me just answer this because I've seen it in the chat. Okay. A couple of people cross asking, how are we eight and one? Should the picks be out of five? It's because we had a draw last time, last pay per view. And so nobody wins that. You know, I'm glad you're here to answer that question.

I would have just froze and then like, well, now I'm thinking you're here to answer that question. I would have just froze. And then like, well, now that I'm thinking about it and what are these times Shaheen, you're going to email me asking for my picks. Uh, you're going to say one word answer will suffice and my one word answer is going to be draw. You don't know when you don't know when it's coming, but I'm just going to, I'm going to wait, I'm going to read some vibes and then I want full credit for it when I get it right. You get, you get credit for 10 wins.

If that, if you get that, if you weigh in that. Oh my God. Well, look, I am actually absolutely, this, this pick thing, it makes me so anxious by the time fights come around. It's absolutely terrifying. I've finally broken my rot on the boys in the backs parlay and still hasn't come through and nothing to do with me guys. Don't look over here, but a massive, massive massive fight Saturday the lads are doing their watch along tomorrow

Make sure you watch it and during the main card. That's New York Rick GC mysterious Frank Sure honor Jordan will be there all of the crew will be there. I won't though I'll just be in Blanchester and watching the fights and sleeping at 7 o'clock in the morning, however Enjoy it all. Thank you so much to our editor in chief Shaheen Alshadi. Thank you to one of the greatest writers in the sport. Ben, folks, thank you to on air Jordan. Thank you to Oscar Lose.

Thank you to all the young crown team. Enjoy UFC 313. Check in with the lads and I will be back on the aerial show on Monday. We love you very much. Have a fabulous weekend. Be safe out there. Mm. Love you. you Thank you. I'm sorry. Music