The Ariel Helwani Show - Ariel x Ade, episode 35: Reaction to Dubois' controversial gathering, Manny Pacquiao turns back the clock, Andy Lee calls for Usyk vs. Parker, Ellie Scotney joins

Episode Date: July 22, 2025

Ariel Helwani and Ade Oladipo kick off the show by reacting to the viral video of Daniel Dubois’ large gathering before his 5th-round TKO loss to Oleksandr Usyk (01:13), with Ade’s perspective from the event. Then, the duo make their predictions for Usyk’s next fight (08:35).Andy Lee, former WBO middleweight champion and current trainer to the stars, joins and discusses what’s next for Joseph Parker, Hamzah Sheeraz’ handwrap controversy, Ben Whittaker’s ceiling, and more (15:05).Up next is Ellie Scotney, the unified super-bantamweight champion, who talks about her huge win on the Taylor-Serrano undercard and her journey to becoming an MVP fighter (35:19).Then, Ariel and Ade turn to the rumor that Claressa Shields was offered a massive contract to fight the long-retired Laila Ali (51:49).They move on to their analysis of 46-year-old Manny Pacquiao’s draw against champion Mario Barrios (54:21), Sebastian Fundora’s stoppage of Tim Tszyu (58:37), ‘Bam’ Rodriguez’ dominant Loma-esque victory (1:01:17), and pay their respect to Josh Taylor after he announced his retirement (1:06:05).They finish off by hypothesizing what’s next for Top Rank in terms of distribution (1:09:06) and delivering the Parting Shot (1:13:18).

Hello and welcome to a brand new edition of Ariel and Ade right here on the undisputed global home of boxing. D-A-Z-N that's the zone. I'm Ariel Hawani inside our New York City studio. Welcome inside the uncrowned studio, the only unbiased combat sports outlet on the planet. My name is Ariel. That man over there is Ade, the great Ade Oladipo. Hello, Ade.

How are you, my friend? No bad, sir. How are we? How are we, Ariel? We are doing great. Coming off an insane and absolutely look, usually we sit, we dilly dally, we joke off the top. We have no time for jokes right now.

We have absolutely no time for jokes. You know why? Because Saturday was an insane day in the world of boxing. It started in Wembley, it went over to Las Vegas, it ended in Frisco, Texas. I might have Frisco and Las Vegas swap there, but you get the point from Dubois and Usyk to Pacquiao and Barrios over to Bam Rodriguez

doing what he does best. What a day, and there's so much to talk and usually we'll kind of talk about the biggest story from the weekend at the top of the show. We'll dissect it, we'll digest it, but Adé, we have to talk about one of the biggest stories coming out of this weekend which is all this stuff surrounding Daniel Dubois and I was debating internally. We were debating privately as well. Do we start with Usyk's performance or do we start with these videos and the talk that has come out afterwards surrounding Daniel Dubois, which seems to suggest that

there was some kind of party, some kind of shindig that was thrown before he left to the arena. Here it is from Charles Okocha, who you might know better than I is a comedian slash rapper from, I think Nigeria. And there he is on Instagram with Daniel before the fight. This is blown up to be a huge story. I saw his, his, his trainer, Don Charles on talk sport, defending it. What do you make of all of this? Because I'm still not sure how to, whether or not it's much to do about nothing or if this was a serious, serious mistake on the part of Team Dubois.

I guess it's much ado about nothing because he's done it before, but it's also a serious mistake because I don't know what the ideal preparation is for a big sporting event. I've never been a top athlete, but I can tell you now, this is not it. This is not it. And I've spoken to fighters, I've spoken to footballers, I've spoken to athletes from other sports and have asked the question, like, would you do this? And they look at me like I'm crazy.

Why would I have 70 people around my house prior to the biggest moment and biggest night of my life? And then, and then the worst thing I guess, is that that then slowed him down from getting to the venue. Like we were ringside, myself, Adam Smith, Darren Barker, Barry Jones. And we were told in our ear that Darren, sorry, that Daniel's not here yet. I was supposed to go and do something in the changing room with Daniel. And they were like, Daniel's not here.

And I'm like, what do you mean he's not here? Alexander Usyk's in his changing room getting his hands wrapped. He's got the music on, he's getting into the zone. And you're telling me, I actually thought it was a joke. I thought it was gonna be one of these Chris Eubank moments. See, like, oh, he's here, type thing. I thought we were gonna go for the big, sort of big hurrah. And they're like, no, no, he's not in the building.

So once it hinders that, then we have a problem. Then we have a major problem. I know what Don Charles has said. And is it confirmed, by the way, is it confirmed that the reason why he wasn't there, the reason why he was late was because of this shindig? Well, the rumor, and I guess I can only say it's rumors. Simon Jordan said it. I don't know where Simon Jordan got his information from, but they are saying that Daniel and

his entourage turned up at Wembley. Obviously, all the entourage didn't have tickets to get in. And again, this is only rumors. We wait for it to be confirmed or denied. But his dad said, Daniel's not coming in unless everyone comes in. So there's a problem in getting everyone in. Now, again, if that is confirmed, this is just ridiculous. Ridiculous.

Again, the biggest moment of his life, we're talking the undisputed heavyweight title fight. And again, I know they've said, okay, we did this for the AJ fight. Doesn't make it right because you went and beat AJ. Let's do it again. There's no, there's no right reason to be having a get together or a party with around 70 people prior to the biggest moment of his life that there just isn't. And again, I'm not an athlete, but having spoken to so many other athletes, they were almost astounded, bemused as to why this happened.

So I think it's wrong. I spoke to Frank Warren today and he said that the team collectively are going to have an internal investigation as to why this happened. So clearly Frank's not happy about it as well. So I think it's wrong. And I know why Don Charles is defending it. It's got to, it's his man, right?

That's his team. But I think if you were to kind of pull Don to the side, I think even he will say, that's not how I want to conduct my business on the biggest night of my life as well. Cause it wasn't just, it was biggest night, it was Don Charles' biggest night as well. 100% and Don always appears to be, you know,

a straight shooter and you remember going into the Anthony Joshua fight, there were some rumors that there was a falling out with the team and that was proven to be false, or at least they did a good enough job of repairing it all. And so I wonder to your point, I wonder if privately he was like, what the hell is this? And now I have to be the one to defend it because let's be honest, you know, Daniel, you've talked to him a whole bunch of times. I've had the pleasure as well. He doesn't seem like this kind of guy. In fact, he seems like a very sort of reserved wants to keep to himself sort of guy on a regular Saturday, let alone the biggest

Saturday of his life, fighting in front of 90,000 people at Wembley Stadium for undisputed gold. I would be shocked to hear that he said, yeah, we should do this or yeah, I love this idea. He kind of just seems like the type of guy who goes with the flow. Do you think that this performance, which wasn't his best, but also you're fighting a generational great who might go down as one of the greatest fighters of all time, certainly the best fighter in the world right now pound for pound, how you can argue otherwise is beyond me. Do you think any of that had anything to do with this performance? Um, I'm going to say no. I'm going to say Alexander Usyk would have got the job done. I didn't expect

him to get the job done in this fashion, but I think most people had Alexander Usyk winning it late by stoppage or quite a wide points decision. But ultimately it's about small percentages with these top athletes, right? We hear it all the time. It's the small things. And again, if you're Daniel Dubois, you want to be in the stadium, in the dressing room, at least three hours before go time. And then, then you know what, get your music in there

if you want, get your people in the changing room if you want, but you wanna be in there. You don't wanna not be at Wembley Stadium at 8.15 knowing you're gonna ring walk at quarter 10, 10 o'clock. Like that, it just can't be the best preparation for what is gonna be the toughest fight of your life. You know that, so it's not ticking all the boxes. And again, I'm around fighters who like to make sure everything is perfect. I've been around AJ and everything

has to be absolutely perfect. And I'm guessing Daniel Dubois and Don Charles are the same. So if you're getting there and you're late, you're thinking it must play in your head a little bit. Again, it's small percentages. Would that have changed the outcome of the fight? Probably not. In fact, absolutely not. But ultimately, it doesn't make you feel the best going into what you know is going to be something ridiculously hard. And I think that's a problem. And that's not fair. And to go in your point about Daniel Dubois, having spoken to Daniel Dubois a few days in the lead up to this fight, he clearly doesn't want to do this because all he says to me is, I just want to fight. I just want to fight. Like enough talking, talking's done.

I just want to fight. So the idea of seeing Daniel Dubois in this party, talking, it just doesn't sit with me. It doesn't make sense to how he's always is towards the media when it comes to asking him questions and then lead up to a fight. It just contradicts it. So yeah, I just think it's a mess.

I would love to hear an explanation from either Daniel or his father. We didn't get much of an explanation, by the way, when he had to pull out of the Joseph Parker fight, so I'm not expecting one. But I would love to hear one as to why they thought this was a good idea. What Don said to Talksport was,

hey, we did it before the AJ fight. It was at Wembley. No one seemed to care all that much. And look at the result. It's a much different scene in the locker room before the fight. We've seen locker rooms that are loose, there's people coming in and coming out,

but at some point someone says, all right, everyone has to leave. That scene in that video is much different than the locker room scene when the fighter is getting his hands wrapped, putting his gloves on, warming up, shadow boxing, whatever it is. It's a completely different scene. That looked like he was someone thrust into a party,

having to shake hands and take selfies before the biggest fight of his life. I would be uncomfortable there. As a guest, I would be uncomfortable in his presence hours before the biggest fight of his life. I want to give Oleksandr Usyk his flowers. I want him to be celebrated on a show like this because of what he did.

I am still in awe of what he did on Saturday. You were there. Tell us, what was it like being in that stadium, your national stadium, 90,000 people? And correct me if I'm wrong, it felt like Usyk wasn't in enemy territory, so to speak. He has beaten Tyson twice, he has beaten AJ twice, and yet it seemed like he was celebrated

just as much as Daniel. What was it all like, because it looked fantastic on TV? Yeah, on the back end of what you said, I think Alexander Usyk is loved over here, because it's how he wins. And what I mean, when I say how he wins, I don't necessarily mean how he wins the fights. It's how he handles the victory. He's always polite.

He's always respectful. His opponents are always respectful to him. He always comes across as a fantastic guy, never says a bad word. And I think the British public have got behind that. In Sand, I do think it was almost like Ukraine in there. Like, I do think like 70% of the audience in there were Ukrainians. I think they really turned up for him.

The British public got behind him as well because they like him. And although they wanna see Daniel win, I think it's almost a case of may the best man win because they like both. But he was just a genius in there. There was a time in that fight where Alexander Usyk decided, okay, you know what

I'm going to do? I'm going to stand my ground and fight because if I let this raging ball feel like he's going to dictate me, then I could get run over. And Oleksandr Usyk snapped his Daniel Dubois head back with a jab in the first 20 seconds and universally ringside, we all looked at each other and was like, yeah, the fight's done. Like he's almost decided, you know what, I'm going to dictate how this plays, not you, because I am the pound for pound king. I am the unbeaten heavyweight champion and I'm going to show you there's levels here. And that's what he did. And even when Daniel started to get him in the corner and Daniel, to be fair, tried, he had a go and that's all you can do. Even then the way he kind of pivoted out, like I could have just watched

his lower half move because the way in which his feet move for a 229 pound heavyweight who's supposed to be old is sensational but once he decides to stand and trade he no longer is a small cruiserweight moving up. He's got the power of a heavyweight and I think we've seen this in fights against AJ and Fury and now Dubois, he can hurt you. It's where before they used to think they can just overpower him with size and bully him. You can't do that no more. So he can hurt you, he can outbox you, he can outmaneuver you, he's got more experience than you.

He's a nightmare, honestly, he's a nightmare. And as you say correctly at the top of the show, he's clearly pound for pound number one. I don't wanna hear Inouye, I don't want to hear Crawford. I don't want to hear my guy Bivel. He's so far in front of these guys because it's in the title, pound for pound. He's given away so much poundage

when he's fighting these guys, 20, 30, 50 pounds. And he's still hurting them and outboxing them. He's a genius, Ariel, a genius. Okay, so the big question now is who is next? My guy Joseph was in there. We'll talk to his trainer Andy Lee in a matter of moments. I can't wait for that chat. I have the utmost respect for Andy and I know you do as well. That to me is the no-brainer. He has a version of the WBO belt. He's got to be the guy. He was screwed a few months ago. He did the job against Bacoli, but then all of a sudden your boy, Derek Chisora, I mean,

could someone have a chat with Derek? Can you just get out of the way? The interviews there and he's like, he's like for a skump, you know, circa 1969, when he's like getting into the shot like Derek, it's not your time. I'm sorry, but no one wants to see you fight Alexander Usyk.

I'm sorry. You're, you're a legend, but no one wants to see that fight. I know that the IBF said that you should be next. I'm sorry. No one wants to see that fight. And you're not deserving of that fight. Joseph Parker is deserving. Then you have the situation with Jake Paul in the middle of the ring. What is going on here? What is happening?

Who is Alexander Usik fighting next? That's a tough question. Honestly, it should be Joseph Parker. Okay. It should be. All right. All right. It should be Joseph Parker, but there's a part of me that feels like, remember that's

his mandatory or Alexander asked it all. Alexander asked it. Alexander asked it. Alexander asked it. Alexander asked it. Alexander, it should be Joseph Parker. It should be. It should be Joseph Parker. But there's a part of me that feels like, remember that's his mandatory. All Alexander Usyk has to do is say, okay, take the belt. That's all he has to do. Okay, this is my mandatory. You're trying to force me to do something I don't really want to do right now. Okay, Parker, you can fight for the world title. And that's my fear that that could happen. When Alexander Usyk was saying out the name, so I said, okay, give me someone who you're gonna fight. And he kind of then decided to kind of let the crowd dictate.

And he said, Fury, and the crowd made a little noise. He said, Parker, the crowd made a little, I didn't really get a sense as to who the crowd want to see either, which is quite alarming. It's hard with 90,000. No, it's hard with 90,000 to get a sense. Yeah, but as a part of me that I wanted to see, you know, a bit like, I know this isn't Joseph Parker's character, but a bit like the way Dubois kind of got in the ring, which was rude, but the way Dubois got in the ring after the Fury fight and just demanded it. Like, you know,

tried to grab the mic from me and said, Usyk, I want my rematch, Usyk. And all of a sudden he's fighting Usyk. I almost wanted to see, I was actually kind of looking for Joseph Parker. Like, where are you? Now this is it, like not Chisora. Cause I felt a bump. I looked and I saw Chisora. I was thinking, I hope that's Joseph Parker. Cause I almost want to see him kind of grab it,

grab the opportunity. Because if he doesn't do that, I almost feel like Tyson Fury could almost jump over him. And I know people might say they don't want to see a Fury fight again, but ultimately pounds and pence might dictate where Usyk goes. And a Fury fight might generate more money than a Parker fight. It might. So I don't know.

It should be Parker, but I don't know if it will be Parker. And on that, finally, if you are Joseph Parker, what are you going to do? Sit out for seven months? Yeah. Usyk isn't fighting again for seven months. That means Joseph Parker is not going to fight for a year. Is that what you're going to do? It really should be Joseph Parker versus Cabial right now. And the winner fights Usyk in seven months. I don't know if Joseph Parker is going to sit out for seven months. He shouldn't. And I think Andy Lee would agree with me when he comes on. Joseph Parker needs to have a fight because the best Joseph Parker is a busy and active Joseph Parker,

not one that sits on the fence for a year. Well, let us ask the great Andy Lee this very question, the former WBO middleweight champion, the one and only Andy Lee who I would, and you set that up. Great. Thank you, Eddie. I don't even know if you knew that he was standing by. No, I didn't. No, I want to call you. You're in the running, my friend, for trainer of the year. What you have done. I think we need to get a good title for you like the Reclamation Project Master. What you have done to revive careers. And I know you probably don't want to say that because you're working with such great fighters, but the work that you have done with Joseph Parker, with Ben Whitaker as of late, with Hamza Shiraz,

congratulations, has been nothing short of amazing. So first, congratulations on all the success as of late, and thank you very much for joining us on the show. Thank you guys, it's good to be here. Yeah, those guys, Joe really started all the ball rolling, but I think as a coach, I will be judged on the progress and the career of Patty Dunovan, because he was the one who started it all.

I took him as an amateur in 2019, and now we're on the cusp of fighting for the world title, so, and he's still only 26, so there's plenty more big things to come for him. Yes, and that's a massive one coming up in September, but I would love for you to respond to what Ade just said. Do you agree with his assessment regarding your guy Joe? Should he fight the likes of Cabell as opposed to waiting for Usyk? It's interesting to see what will happen now and what the position or how this all plays out,

really, and what Usyk decides to do. Like he said he's probably seven months away from fighting. Joe hasn't fought since February. He needs a fight Joseph. He's like Madi said, when he's active he's at his best. But who is the opponent? Fighting Cabell, they're both great fighters. It's a huge risk for both of them

because of the positions they're in. Cabell number one with WBC, Joe Mandatory with the WBO. And all these guys are in positions. Chisora is in position with the IBF. So there's huge risks in taking a fight like that at this stage when you could be next in line for a title fight. Now whether Usyk vacates and he fights somebody the next best challenger or Usyk decides to fight Joseph, which would be admirable, which he doesn't have to do probably because his legacy is secured. He's done basically everything in boxing and if he was to retire tomorrow or

what could happen which has been muted that he was going to have the Dubois fight and then he was going to have a celebrity fight you know like a crossover fight with an ex-MMA or something like that which for me wouldn't be nice because I think it would cheapen his legacy in some way but as Adi said, pounds and pence and dollars are what count in this game. Andy have you spoken or has Spencer Brown or Frank spoken to you because to be fair to Frank, I've spoken to Frank twice since the fight and he does always say it's Joseph Parker next, it's Joseph Parker next. It's Joseph Parker next. And he's kind of, he says it with a bit of force as well as, as though

he's promised you guys that you will be next in line. Has there been a conversation with Frank as to what happens with Joseph? Because I almost feel sorry for Joseph now. It's got to the stage where every time I see Joseph, I'm like, okay, when are you going to fight? When are you going to fight? And he has this face of, I don't know, I don't know. And it's upsetting for me as well just to see him on the sidelines. Yeah, it's very frustrating for him and for us as a team. But I had a brief conversation with Frank Barnard as we were walking back from the ring. I said, it has to be Joe.

And he said, we're going to push for Joseph. And Spencer Brown he said we're gonna push for Joseph David Higgins we're gonna push for Joseph but you can't force Usyk to fight anybody you can't fight force anyone to fight anybody you know it has the will has to be on Usyk's side Joe's will the will for Joe is there he'd fight anybody and as he's shown but And, uh, as, as he's shown, but the will has to be and the want has to be on new 16. Um, but your, your, your fighter hat on for me, if you can, Andy, again, I mean, I saw, it's funny because the video of Dubois getting knocked out, there's you and Joe in the background and I can see both of your reactions. Um, when you're watching that, I mean, again, you've seen some of the best heavyweights

in the world. You've been in camp with some of the best heavyweights in the world. When you're watching that, are you watching it like myself and thinking, okay, this is an all time great you're seeing? I just, first of all, almost I watched it as a fan and I enjoyed the fight. I thought Dubois started really well, but you just, there's something about Usik, isn't it? And just this change after round one, round two, Dubois was having some success, landing right hands and there was just a change, something inside him. You could see the look at even the, well, you could see it in his posture in the ring and how he started to stand more and hold his feet more and decided to try and back Dubois up and eventually doing it and setting traps and then letting Dubois fall short and countering him and he created an

insecurity in Dubois. You could see he just stepped back counter and he just, Dubois didn't feel comfortable punching anymore because every time he did, Ussuk wasn't there and he was getting countered with something. Something was catching him on either side of the temple or on the chin and it was just a master class and you know it was just so enjoyable just to watch from from from a fan's point of view and how he just did it just how he just turned it around it was he stood up off the second and he did it he did it when the AJ when AJ had that good round in the second fight and he did it, he did it with the AJ, when AJ had that good round in the second fight and he did it with Tyson, when Tyson had a good round, he stood up and he did, he blessed him with that.

Two times. And the fight changed. The fight changed. So it's a mark of the man. When I saw that happen, I said, oh, here we go. And it was just like, you know, if you're in the opposite corner and you see that happen, okay, switch on because here he comes. It's wonderful to watch.

It really does feel like we are watching a genius at work. A story has emerged in the aftermath of the fight, and I don't want you to necessarily talk about other people's business, but you have been in this game a very long time, and I'd just love to get your two cents on this Daniel Dubois pre-fight party story that has come out.

When you saw this, when you heard about this, being in the fight game, as great as you were as a fighter and now as a trainer, what do you make of all of this, and do you think any of that had anything to do with the performance? Remember listening to Daniel Dubois on a podcast, and he, just as I was studying for Joseph Parker, when I, you know, the first rule of war is know your enemy.

So when we were getting ready to fight him with Joseph Parker, I was watching everything I could find, any interview and all fights and everything. And he said in the interview that he did it for the Joshua fight, which has been publicized and he got this energy. He created this energy and he carried that to the stadium and he carried it to the dressing room and he carried it into the ring. And they tried to do it again. And when I was thinking about it now,

from his, maybe from his dad's and team's point of view, it could be distraction. You know, people can lose their nerve in the dressing room. People can lose the, you know, the fight can be one last from the walk, from, you know, the day of the fight is probably the longest day of your life. It just drags and drags and drags sometimes, especially when you're in a big fight like

that and there's so much pressure. And I think could have just been a bit of this, I don't know, just looking at it from a different angle that they were trying to keep him occupied, keep his mind occupied, that he's not thinking about the fight, that he's interacting with other people who are not necessarily involved, they're going to ask him or talk about the fight. He's just giving him some positive feedback and he just all of a sudden he's interacting with other people who are not necessarily involved are going to ask him or talk about the fight. He's just giving him some positive feedback. And he just all of a sudden he's in the dressing room, his hands are wrapped and he already goes for the fight.

That's my take. It could be that. I might be wrong, but it worked for AJ. It didn't work this time. And when, when fights go wrong, you're open to criticism. And this day and age, everything is analyzed. When Tyson lost to Usyk the first time, myself, Sugar Hill, John Fury in the corner, we got Ed alive.

But when Daniel won his fight, no one talked about the three or four voices in the corner. Now everyone's talking about it. So I don't think it's much... I think it's just their process. Everyone is different. And when you lose, you're open to criticism. People feel they have the right to criticize you, but they don't know your process. They don't know what's behind it. And I would just say, if that worked for him before, they tried to do it again and it didn't work this time.

But it's not got to do with that, it's just got to do with who he was in the ring with. I appreciate that perspective. I also love the idea of you listening to any Daniel Dubois interview, any sort of video, any sort of content that you can get your hands on speaks to just how brilliant you are. And so you have probably thought for a moment or two

about Parker versus Usyk. Can you put that hat back on and tell us, you're not going to give us the game plan I know, but how does Joseph Parker pull this off? If in fact he gets the shot and we all hope and pray he does, what's the key to beating Usyk? You have to, why Joe has been so successful, Why Joe has been so successful? My fighters have so much success in the last while. It's because in the gym we iron out all the breaks. Fighters take breaks in fights, whether it's consciously or subconsciously, they switch off.

Then there's telltale signs and your opponent will instinctively pick up on it and you will be attacked. So what we work on in the gym is being ready at all times and being your body language in the ring and keeping your feet in a position where you're always ready to punch. And if you are resting, if you are taking a break, that you don't show it, that you look as if you're ready to attack and you're ready to punch. And that's basically what we do and that's what Usyk does. Usyk feeds off his opponent's breaks. When they when they look to take that little switch he'll attack them. He can pressure pressure pressure faint with these magic wand right hand and he just burns them up burns them up burns

them up they're mentally exhausted as much as physically. And then when he wants to rest, he can move and dip and dive and go under the big guy's punches. Joe is a similar size to him, can fight at a similar pace, is a crafty, clever boxer, Joe. So people don't realize how clever he is

and how he can adjust. And we won't be taking breaks, and we'll just have to match him. I just love the fight. I think technically it's a great fight from two really good heavyweight boxers, one of them an all-time great and Joseph Hall of Famer and possibly an all-time great if he got the win over Usik. And the thing is you have to match his pace and that's mentally as much as physical. I sincerely hope that you get the opportunity Andy. I think I speak for Ariel as well. Ariel has been the biggest cheerleader for Joseph Parker I've ever seen in my life.

Absolutely, yeah. Thank you guys so much. It's incredible. And also thank you for the backing of Patti Donovan after the first fight with Lewis Crocker. You know, you've been also thank you for the backing of Patti Donovan after the first fight with Lewis Crocker. You know, you've been a great champion for the Leeds boxing team. And this is the biggest show, so we're really grateful for that. Right, let's move on to another one of your charges.

And I think maybe, Andy, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, maybe your biggest win as a trainer, Hamza Shiraz, obviously, look, you had him for one camp. He's going to America, backs against the wall. He's in there against an arrogant, loud American in his home turf, and he stops him. And I remember just looking at you in the corner when that stoppage happened and just, I mean, you don't normally scream and shout, but you almost turned into Eddie Hearn jumping over the top rope there. I think the biggest win, but then the nonsense that's came out of some mouths in America about handwraps and it's

just annoyed me. I know you've responded to a couple of people, but this is the New York State Athletic Commission, the toughest commission in the world. When you hear that rubbish, I mean, does it annoy you? Because again, your charge has the biggest win in his career. And then you've got some people who know nothing about boxing talking about hand wraps. To be honest with you, I shouldn't have dignified it with a reply, but as Hamza said, it's a compliment. It's a backhanded compliment because I was telling people how hard this guy hits.

It was shocking. It's like literally I'm doing pads for everybody and we're hitting it with the left hand. It's just wow. It the left hand it's just wow. It's like all I can say is shocking. It hits the pad and literally it's jarring your elbow every day and like I was coming home from training every night my forearms would just be frobbing, just like pulsating. And it was like, well I was looking forward to the sparring days so I wouldn't have to

take a hit. But he can punch a hand and man very mentally very strong, very, very determined, very, very focused on his work and just a great students and a lovely person. So and I can say that about all the guys I trained. So I'm very fortunate. Listen, it's an easy job when you've got the best fighters, isn't it? When you've got the best fighters, it's an easy job and they deserve the credit.

What's it like now, Andy, because you are building and I tweeted about this. I think it's an incredible stable and I think everyone's making improvements immediately. I think Ben looked so different last time around as well. Big performance from him. Again, backs against the wall. Hamza backs against the wall. Joseph, when it came to backs against the wall. I mean, are you still taking applications? I mean, is there any more room in the Andele camp or is that it? The door shut for now?

It's like a capacity. I would love to be able to get more people time but the reason I've maybe it's another reason I'm successful is that there's only there's the four fighters and it's not a conveyor belt of guys coming in the gym and with one guy and I'm with him for the whole day and I've been very fortunate with with the timing of the camps that there's not been too much of a clash yet some of them will go, some of them won't go together, but quality over quantity and you could not like for the best, nicest people I've ever met and for the most talented fighters you would ever hope to get as well. And yeah, very, very fortunate. When you have somebody like, you know, like Whitaker, all that talent, it's, it's, it's,

there's no ceiling for him. How far he can go. It's completely in his hands. And all you got to do is guide somebody like that. Just just steer them in the right way, you know, and, and just watch them, you know, put a little bit of discipline, a little bit of structure to it, and the talent and the ability just comes out and Ben Widdicott, it's scary and I'm just sitting there and you know what like what I have with now with these guys with Hamza, Paddy and Joseph and Ben is like when they can

come back to the corner after sparring in the round you say and you don't have to say a thing to them you say I don't have to tell you a thing well done keep feeling it don't get bored you know just give, well done. Keep doing it. Don't get bored. You know, just give them a bit of water. That's the best, that's the best. Like they're just doing so, they're just so well drilled and they know the game, they know what they're doing. And they come back to the corner and you just say,

I can't say a word to you. What a stable. That's the best feeling as a coach. And as you said, four very easy to root for guys, in my opinion, a very easy root for trainer as well. Can I ask, there's a great debate regarding what Hamza should four very easy to root for guys, in my opinion, a very easy root for trainer as well. Can I ask, there's a great debate regarding what Hamza should do next, which direction, should he wait for Canelo, should he not,

what would you like to see him do? Hamza's stock is probably as high as it ever gonna be. If he knocked out somebody else, would it get any higher? Now he does, probably in the ideal world would we would like another fight together and another camp together but we can do that without a fight. We can do that without the wear and tear of a fight. When you've got a fight like Canelo and the Offering you know the potential. Listen, Canelo's fighting Crawford

he's an absolute legend of the game. He's the best fighter of this generation. But to get the chance to fight him for Hamza is just phenomenal. And for me as a coach, it'd be an amazing challenge. So I'm not sure what we'll talk about, discuss it as a team, but first of all, I think we've got to wait for after that, the fight in September between Crawford and Canelo. In conclusion, Andy, was this all part of the plan for you? Uh, you don't need me to tell you this, but, uh, the late great Emmanuel Stewart would be very proud of what you're doing right now.

And you are, you are carrying the torch for him and the, and the team over at Cronk Gym. Was this the plan for you? Did you always want to be a trainer for champions or did you kind of fall into this post-fighting? When you retire from boxing, no matter how you distract yourself, there's always going to be a vacuum and a hole and you'll fall into it very easily. And after a certain period of time, nothing can satisfy, nothing can match it,

nothing can match it. And by design or by no plan or design, I just saw Patty Dunovan fighting in the national stadium and I looked at him and I said, wow, this kid is unbelievably talented. And if there's ever gonna be a young lad to turn pro and go with, it was him, because a similar background to myself,

similar from the same city as myself. And I thought, wow, what a talent. And then one thing led to what led to another, but like, unknowingly, when I think about it, the education I got and I didn't Didn't ever plan to be a coach. When I think about Being with Emanuel Stewart, being with Sugar Hill, being with Joey Gamache, being with Adam Booth, Gary Logan, Darren Chan of Kasui, and before that the Repton Boxing Club in London, St. Francis Boxing Club, then with the Irish national team, Zoran

who's bred so many Olympic champions, Billy Walsh who's now the USA amateur coach, Nicolas Cruz Hernandez, all of these great, great coaches. And I got to be with them, be trained by them. And all the time you're picking it up, picking things up. And then also my own education as a fighter, being in there, I think that makes it just, it's just, I'm very, very lucky to have lived the life I've lived and always looking to learn and hungry for knowledge. And even now still improving and trying to improve all the time, looking where I can get an edge on anything.

Well, it's been amazing to watch. Wow. And again, congratulations on all the time, looking where I can get an edge on anything. Well, it's been amazing to watch. Wow. And again, congratulations on all your success, front runner for trainer of the year. I know you don't care about any of this stuff, the success of the fighter. I do, I do. Okay, maybe you do, okay.

It is well earned and deserved, and we hope it continues, and I hope that Patty Donovan fight goes your way. Obviously wish you guys the best, and we'll see what's next for Ben and of course for Joe and Hamza, a lot of exciting things going on for you in the gym. So thank you so much, Andy.

Really appreciate the time. It was great to have you on. Cheers Andy. Thank you. Lovely stuff there from the great Andy Lee, who does a brilliant job as a broadcaster as well. Was a brilliant fighter and now a brilliant trainer. Adi, let's keep the guest train rolling along.

You know, I had heard a lot about Eli Scot Adi, let's keep the guest train rolling along. You know, I had heard a lot about Ellie Scotney from talking to the likes of you and other people in the boxing business. Of course I've watched her for several years now when she was fighting on the zone, fighting under the matchroom umbrella, but I'd never watched her in person until two Fridays ago at MSG on Netflix, when she made her MVP debut and was outstanding. One of the great performances on that card in a sea of many great performances,

she did so very well and, and still till this day, I'd a some, I don't know, 10 or so days later, I'm lamenting the fact that I only got to ask her one question in the post fight. You do these post fight interviews in the ring and they told me my ear, we only have time for one question. You know, a post fight interview in the ring, you need four me my ear, we only have time for one question, you know, a post fight interview in the ring. You need four, five, six, you need to warm up, you need to get to the good stuff. And I only got to ask her one.

And so I was happy to find her backstage and apologize. But the first thing that I wanted to do was have her on as she had some time to settle back home and talk about the big win. And so without further ado, let us say hello to the unified super band to my champion, the one and only Ellie Scotty,'s kind enough to join us here now. Hello Ellie, how are you? And congratulations again on the big win two Fridays ago here in New York City. Thank you for having me on and it's hard to you know you've just had Andy on so there's high standards now I'm feeling it. No pressure, no pressure whatsoever. He took looks a lot better

than me that's for sure. Again, congrats on an incredible win, and I'm sorry for only giving you the mic for one question. That was not my intention, but you know how it is with live TV. Could I ask though in the aftermath, what has life been like? You come back home, you've just fought on this massive stage, millions of people watching, we have since learned.

What is it like going back home to England? You know what, Amy, I'll be totally honest with you, the next day I was in Tesco's and I was dragging my mom's trolley. So, you know, life definitely has not changed for me. My mom makes sure I'm humbled. So, but the buzz off the back of it, it was one thing, you know, being known in Britain, but I feel like I announced myself to the world and that was always the purpose of signing with MVP. And yeah, I made work for the platform.

And so are people coming up to you on the street now? Yeah, I've had a few come up to me. One to borrow my club card in Tesco's, but the other was for a selfie. So we're getting more known. I love it. And it's well-deserved. You've probably looked back at the fight for someone like me, the untrained eye. I say it was a 10 out of 10 performance.

It was dominant, it was one-sided. Do you feel the same, or when you're watching it, are you like, nah, I don't like that, I don't like this, I need to improve on that? How do you watch it back? Yeah, I'm very much critical of myself, and for Shane to be happy, I think that says quite a lot. So there's a lot I didn't show,

and there's a lot more to come, but I feel like I'm only 11 fights in and the best is yet to come for sure. Ellie, I wanna go back a few weeks, if not a few months. When you get the call from Jake Paul and his team, Nakita and say, okay, look, we wanna sign you at Madison Square Garden, because I remember seeing that unveiling video

where you're in Times Square. What's that like? Take us back for those of us that don't know the journey from where you were to get over to MVP. And if I tell you like it was night and day for the place I was in, you know, six months ago when I had my fight in January, I didn't know where I was going. I was out of contract and you know, I sent a DM and off the back of that, my whole life kind of turned

around and like I say I'm forever grateful. I always say like a shy kid gets no sweets and I was a fat kid. I was always grateful for that but I'm a person of faith and I believe it was God's timing and I'm forever thankful for that. What's it like MSG because I I guess for young kids in the UK, America's still a dream, right? We look at America like the biggest and the best sort of platform and country in the world. What's it like to come from Catford, where you are, right?

Small Catford to go over to America. And as Ariel said, you're fighting in front of millions. I mean, there were thousands in the big arena. The big arena is not used for boxing that much anymore, but you were there and I think you stole the show. I think your performance was the best performance of the night and there were pound for pound stars fighting. What's that like for you as well, Ellie?

Hey, we didn't get the bonus. Disgrace. I always mess around. The key, so I have a word. But you know, I say I went from SE6, which is Catford, to MSG, and it was surreal. You know, even my mom going out there, and it was like a little pinch me moment, because the fact that my hands, you know,

made my family travel the world, it's gonna be one of the biggest blessings that I can take from it. So it was surreal, and yeah, it was everything you could ask for as a fighter, like the dream venue, the dream card, and the dream fight, you know, I'm one step closer to undisputed,

and it was a magical night. By the way, I've wondered about that DM. They posted it on the MVP socials, but what did you specifically write to Jake last year to try to get his attention? I remember it was Serrano Katie number two. I asked to get on the first one, I pleaded, it never come off, and I saw that he had the second fight,

so I just said, what are the odds of me getting on before the bell? And then the first time lucky, I was on the main broadcast on Netflix, and wow, God really does work in magical ways. And by the way, has he written back to you yet? Like has he seen the message? Cause you said at the, no he still hasn't?

I'm still left on read. Come on, Jay. Has he at least followed you? He's followed me, he's tagged me in the story but he's not replied. Come on. Good night, everyone. Maybe it's better that way. Maybe you just keep it going. The good vibes are rolling in your direction. And so obviously here you are and you're doing big things and you said that you wanted to fight for Undisputed Next. Do you have any sort of idea as to, the WBA is the last one left, right?

That's the one that you need. Do you have any idea if that's going to happen? Where do you sit now 10 days later? Yeah, it was funny in the hotel actually, I heard someone call my name. I looked and I said, I recognize you. It was actually the WBA champion. She asked for a photo, so we had a photo. After the fight I heard the same voice and I said to

her me and you next and since then the photo has been deleted but you know the fight's looking to be made and you know God willing it's looking by the end of the year that we'll complete the collection. Okay, okay. So WBA opportunity, undisputed, Sky Nicholson. If two of them are put on the table for you to fight, which one are you going for? Undisputed, without a doubt. Okay. Undisputed, it's a no-brainer. Look at the face she just made, Ade. Look at the face.

I know, I saw that face. I saw that face as well. Is Sky the fight that you want though? Okay, once you get the belt, is that like the super fight? And this isn't disrespecting the WBA champion because that's a super fight in itself. But is Sky the fight what you're aiming for? Will you write the name down and think, okay, that's the fight before the end of the year? I've always aimed for champions. When she had the belt, like I said, I was very vocal.

I had meetings where I wanted that fight. Since then, she's lost her title. And since then, I've become one step closer undisputed. So, you know, I'll be completing the collection at Super Bantamweight. I'll be completing the collection at Super Band and Weight. Then I'll be moving up to Feather to do the same. So if you get the hand on a belt, then that's a fight. Okay, interesting.

Has there been, because we had Nakisa on, I think it was a couple of weeks ago, myself and Ariel, and he spoke about the fact that... Was it last week, Ariel? Yeah. And he spoke about the fact that, you know, you've tried to have this fight before, and maybe Eddie didn't make the fight. Was it last week at Unreal? Yeah, yeah. And he spoke about the fact that, you know, you've tried to have this fight before and maybe Eddie didn't make the fight. Is there more than just, okay, wanting to see a fight?

Or is there animosity between you and Sky? Or is it just a case of best versus the best? Wanna challenge yourself? No. When I called for the fight she had a WC belt and since then Tia was beta. So that was the reason I was calling her. What I loved about what you did all last week or two weeks ago now in New York was you honored

and represented your late friend, Georgia O'Connor. I never had a chance to meet her, but I loved that you had her dad by your side. I loved that you wore the t-shirt with her picture on it at the weigh-ins. It was lovely to see, and you said that you were gonna honor her and bring her to Netflix, bring her to the world and you did a phenomenal job of doing just that. For those that

may not have known about Georgia, may not have met her, I've seen some amazing tributes to her. Who was your friend Georgia and what made her so special? I would always say, you know, the way you hold a room without saying words says everything about a person and she would walk in and she would take the spotlight without even saying a word. She had that light to her. And generally when you say a lot of people throw the word, oh, someone's a good person, but she was everything in that and more and more than that, the way she fought the battle,

it was something that I've never seen in a person. And she never, till that day, she was so selfless in her moments and the strength I've never seen in a fighter, let alone a person that was battling so much, something so great or so. For 25 years, the way she lived, what she showed me is just something I'll carry forever. And like I said, every opportunity I will speak of her name because she was a special soul and yeah, life is cruel,

but she showed me every bit of kindness. When you told her dad that you wanted him there, what was that conversation like? And what was it like for you to have her dad by your side throughout the biggest fight of your life? It was everything, you know, I've seen, at the last sort of moments I was there with him and the funeral, I was in the house, everything like that.

So you can feel it being in their energy, like it was the only child and it's going to be a little place, not a big place that they'll never be able to come to terms with. But I just knew that having him there in that moment would mean that Georgia's in that ring. And yeah, you could see he just lighted up and yeah, I'm just forever grateful that they come out. But more than that, I just know that Georgia was, you know, with us all. Well said, Ellie. Well said. As this MVP signing, they're giving you that new lease of life. I mean, I've seen you ringside and I think I've even made a beeline for you saying that

Ellie, what's going on? Why aren't you doing this? And why aren't you doing that? Has it given you this new lease of life? Okay, now we can really go like we've got targets. We're sitting down with the team. I mean, Eddie did, I think, good things with you, but now it's a case of, OK, let's kick on again. Yeah, like I said, although I was a unified world champion, not many people. I never had what comes with being a world champion. And MVP showed me that from the initial first phone call with Nakisa.

And I felt part of something, you know, they want to get your story across, they want to know the person and they'll outreach that so the first show it was as big and as good as I could ask and I just felt like, you know, I had the platform and I had to give the performance and I felt like I did so you know, it's down to me to keep continuing to that and yeah, they're the platform, they're the people that are backing me and I'm forever grateful to MVPs Jake, Nikiso and Amanda. When I do the interviews, my first question, or one of the first questions is, okay, when are you at next? And it's a horrible question because you just got the biggest win of your life. When do you want to fight next? You giving Ariel some tips here or?

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, I've got Ariel, you know what I mean? I'm the pro here, Ellie. Wow. But when do you want to be out next? I know like Nikesa said he's got dates coming up in the next few months. Is there a time? Is it a case of I just want to be out again as soon as possible? Any niggles, any injuries? No niggles. My cut sealed up nicely well. I was back in the gym and it's looking like November time, October November So I'll be getting Christmas dinners this year. I

Saw you tweet over the weekend. Alexander is the greatest fighter you have seen live why Wow. Wow Yes, this yes, it's all about him like I've never watched him live and I'm just gonna watch it on the telly I don't know but Wow, wow, honestly, there's watching someone and there's watching someone do something where, it was magic, that's the only way I can describe it. Yeah, I was in awe, I was in awe. And I do have to say for anyone out there,

you're a sneaky good follow on Twitter, now known as X. Very sarcastic at times, funny. You took a while to follow me back, no hard feelings whatsoever, but I have enjoyed your work on Twitter and I did happen to notice earlier today, you retweeted or reposted as they say now, the number one unbiased combat sports site on the planet,

uncrowned, having you ranked in the top 10 women's pound for pound rankings. You retweeted this. You went from not ranked to number nine. There you are. And you retweeted it. So I appreciate that acknowledgement. But do you think we got it right? Did we get it right? Or should you be higher up? Hey, listen, I've gone from long ranked. I've cut the top 10. And, you know, with time, we'll push on from that. Who do you have as number one? Katie.

Why over Clarissa? Yeah, Katie. I just feel like Clarissa's a phenomenal fighter and she's a standout. There's no one that's coming close to when she fights and you'll see that again on Saturday. But I just felt like the way Katie, the legacy she holds is gonna be, it's generational. You know, she did it for the Olympics.

She opened doors that were double locked, not just they were jarred. And she's continued to do that as a pro. So I always felt like the legacy is so much more than, you know, fights and she's got, she's beat, she's avenged losses and stuff like that. I just feel like legacy holds so much more than, you know, the record or the numbers as such. Can we put that pound for pound list up again? I think that's almost, I mean, I feel sorry for

Tasha because obviously Tasha's probably coming to the end, we don't know what Tasha Jonas is going to do, but that is, I think, the best collection of females in that 10 I think we've ever had. That's an incredible list. It really is. And you could argue that number one and potentially number four, maybe only got a couple of fights left, but everyone else seems to be going. I mean, do you look at that list and think,

okay, eventually the aim has to be to be number one. It has to be to be the female fight of the year. Do you kind of set those targets or are those the things that happen once you get the big wins? Yeah, Ada, you know, like it's always step by step for me and it's funny, like I made a list at the start of the year and I'll probably send, you know, share at the end and I've already kind of ticked off a few things and you know, of course breaking that pound for pound list was one of

them. So, you know, step by step and under the sputes, next on the list, but there's little things on there that, you know, that definitely top it. Ellie, look, I just want to say it as we wrap up. A stoppage is one of them, I'm not going to lie. Yeah, Ellie, well, I mean, you fight like you want to stoppage all the time. Like, literally, Shane must be going crazy because you fight like, okay, I'm going to get this stoppage and all of a sudden, I mean, it's a life and death, it's a war. But look, I think, and I remember Ariel asking about your fight and style and mean, it's a life and death, it's a war. But I think, I remember Ariel asking about your fight and style and look, it's the most exciting.

You put on a show and I'm so happy for you. And I say this as someone that's known you for a while. I'm so happy that all of a sudden you've got the glow up that you deserve. And I think what you and MVP are gonna do in the next few years, I think it's gonna be sensational. And I know that, and Nekisa spoke about Alicia Baumgarden to be in the future, but I think he needs to kind of look back and think one

second there's a lady here called Ellie Scotney who entertains, who fights, is unbeaten and is in and around weight classes where there's so many good fights. So look, I wish you the best of luck in the next couple of years. Oh, God bless you. I appreciate that. And hopefully we'll be able to see you climb that list. Thank you. I appreciate that. I'd like to see you climb that list. Thank you, I appreciate you. And I know it's been all positive and nice and you deserve all those accolades.

I'm not trying to rain on the parade, but I do think you support Crystal Palace. Ah! Were you not in the Europa League? And then replaced by these guys. We're going to the conference. Yeah, what happened? You guys, you beat man city

wait do you like football what have you got you don't like football do you forest our magic on and off do I know I got this right here it does it does it does it sort of time it does it sort of time long days of Brian Clough right here you're gonna have a perm like Lee Wood next, ain't ya? Oh, that's my guy. Lee and I, we text about Forrest all day long. Me, Lee Wood, Carl Frosch, we're on a group text together. It's fantastic. I just I just wanted to know how you felt about Palace getting dropped down from Europa League for Forrest and if you had any issues with me having this up on my on my side. You know what, I used to think you was alright. No wonder, I thought that was the reason why you didn't follow me back.

That was it. Do you know what? I think, I thought we'd get away with it, but you know, the conference, it's not got the same feel, but we'll get an away day. Yeah, well, good luck. And we won last year, so how did not... That's true. There you go. There you go. And you're keeping your best players. As they say, Mateta stay in game, you're true. There you go. There you go. And you're keeping your best players. Eze, Sam, Teta, Gae, Staying.

You're fine. Must be nice. They're on the other hand losing their best players. We'll send you a postcard from Europa League. It's going to be fantastic. Yeah, that'll be it. Thank you so much. Congratulations on an incredible win.

Appreciate you coming on. Great to have you on and looking forward to the next one. Thank you for your time. God bless. Take care. There she is. Cheers. The great Ellie Scotney, perhaps soon to become undisputed super Bantamweight champion. Amazing stuff.

I love her energy. Love her energy. Oh my God. Yes. A superstar. Yeah. They, they, they picked a good one and, uh, the good folks over at, uh, MVP have announced that they are going to add five more fighters to the stable.

They're going to announce this in the next couple of days. I saw a tweet from Jake. Uh, I have no idea who those fighters are, but, uh, they are, they are quickly signing them all up. I wonder if they're going to try to make a run at one of the fighters competing this weekend on Dazon, uh, Clarissa Shields, who's going up against Lani Daniels. I mean, it's, look, it's either, it's either you got the Shedasia green fight, which I think is a big fight now. You have Savannah Marshall on the roster as well. And oh, by the way, I think it's, look, it's either, it's either you got the Shadaysia Green fight, which I think is a big fight now.

You have Savannah Marshall on the roster as well. And oh, by the way, Clarissa is out there. Did you see this on TMZ saying that she has a $15 million offer to fight Leila Ali? And do you remember the, the, the time that she was on the program and it got, it got tense when she started talking about Leila Ali. Um, do you have any interest in that?

No. Please do expand. No, I mean, Leila Ali is not fought for over a decade. What are we doing? I mean, we were going mad about Manny Pacquiao for five years. Yeah, look how good he looked. Yeah, but like, it's just, can someone confirm? Is there someone in the, in one of

the producers backstage that can confirm actually when Leila Ali last fought? Like I almost feel like, and this is no discredit to Leila, it's a different sport now. Like these females now are completely different from back then. It's, it's, it's almost the female side of boxing is moving so quick that even, even ladies of five years ago are having to play catch up. So the idea of the arguably the best female fighter in the world right now fighting someone. Remember, Barrios was never the best fighter right now. You're talking maybe the pound for pound best female fighter ever fighting someone that's not fought for over a decade. I honestly have no interest in it whatsoever.

I actually think it's dangerous. I don't know how old Leila Ali is, but I'm gonna guess and say mid-forties. Maybe mid to late forties. 47, her last fight was February 2007. Ariel, what are we doing? Yeah, Clarissa has looked phenomenal. I mean, look, I would love to see Clarissa

get a big time fight with all due respect to Lanny Daniels or any of her previous opponents. Her last, what felt like I think a big time fight would be Savannah Marshall. Would you agree with that? Um, which felt like sort of like must see TV. Let's see what happens here. Her versus Shadesha has been very interesting as of late. They were going back and forth.

Shadesha fought the fight of her life in an incredible performance, got that bonus when she beat Savannah. I know Savannah probably wants a rematch as well. There are options for her and maybe those options include resigning with Salida Promotions and just doing co-promotions and whatnot. But that is happening this weekend and I'm looking forward to seeing her back in action. Let us talk about Manny Pacquiao. Look, we got to be honest here.

When we heard about him getting ranked, when we heard about him getting the title shot 46, his last fight was four years ago, considering how he looked in his last fight, I think we were all concerned. We didn't like it. We have to say, while those feelings all may have been real and authentic and valid, he looked fantastic on Saturday. I mean, he turned the clock all the way back. He looked amazing and I thought he was gonna win.

And it ended up being a draw. And Mario Barrios now has the dubious distinction of having two draws in a row as champion, but they gotta run this one back, no doubt about it. And I wonder now if they go to a bigger venue. I love the MGM Grand, but this is now Must See TV. And I could tell you from our side of things, over at Uncrowned, the only unbiased platform

and site outlet that covers combat sports, the traffic for Manny Pacquiao on Saturday was through the roof. It was Tyson Paul levels. There's still great interest and love in this guy. And I was thoroughly impressed in what he did on Saturday. Yeah, look, I'm not going to change my opinion of whether the fight should have happened. I still believe it shouldn't, but I have to be a bit humble pie. I didn't expect Manny

Pacquiao to look that good. I remember doing or covering his exhibition fight. I remember thinking, okay, he's done. This version of the guy that kind of entertained me at five in the morning for so many years is no longer. And I saw a version of that guy still in the early hours of Sunday morning. He won that fight. He won that fight by a couple of rounds. In my head, I'm like, is Barrios that bad? Or is Manny Pacquiao still quite good? And I guess it's a bit of both because Barrios really, and I hate to be critical Barrios because you know

when I see him I show him love but you should be beating Manny Pacquiao. You should be beating a guy who's not been peak Manny Pacquiao for a decade maybe longer so I don't know what it says about Mario Barrios if I'm honest with you. Again as you say it's coming off two draws he didn't look great so they do have to run it back. I think Pacquiao was robbed on the scorecards, which doesn't normally happen when you are the quote unquote, bigger name, the bigger star. So I think they're going to run it back. Now there was a part of me that was like, go on Manny, win so we can get a Floyd fight, which would break every single record, Netflix, Hags, maybe even Jake

Paul, Mike Tyson, but in the end, I think Manny Pacquiao deserves another go, which I feel almost idiotic to say, but I think Manny Pacquiao deserves another knock. And you're right, I think it goes to a bigger venue. Let's go to a bigger arena and let's see what Manny Pacquiao can do. And oh, by the way, even if he does decide to go the route of Floyd Mayweather,

the performance alone warranted it. The performance alone validated it. And who knows where Floyd is at this point in his life and in his career, but it's not like whenever Pacquiao fights again, which he will, we won't be watching like this. First couple of rounds, I was watching like this. And then all of a sudden, the way in which he was moving, the way in which he was fighting, I was like, this is 10 years ago. What the hell has happened here? Who saw this coming?

And what surprised me was the latter rounds. Cause I maybe kind of expected money to have that kind of energy and fire for the first three or four rounds, right? Adrenaline. And what's he got left in the gas tank? And maybe he's only got four or five rounds and then he's hanging on for dear life. But the latter rounds, he's still moving. I'm like, is this guy not going to slow down? And if you're Barrios in your camp, you're probably thinking, okay, look, this guy's got four rounds in him and then we'll just do what we need to do. And I think even Barrios and his team was surprised that, oh God, Manny's actually still got a lot left and he's hurting him. And he was hurting Barrios. So yeah, it did surprise me. But again, I think it speaks to

how bad Barrios is as a champion, as opposed to what Manny's got left. Because in my head I was watching that thinking, what would Brian Norman do to Manny Pacquiao? Maybe what would even Devon Haney do to Manny Pacquiao? And I don't think it ends well. So I think it's more a slight on Barrios before we all get excited and say Manny Pacquiao is back. Because I do think we need to be careful.

I don't think Manny Pacquiao is back. I I do think we need to be careful. I don't think Manny Pacquiao is back. I just think that Barrios is not that great as a champion. You know, it reminds me a little bit of when George St. Pierre came back after five years. He specifically went up to 185 cause he targeted Michael Bisping and he said, I could beat that guy. I don't want to stick around at 185,

but I know I could beat that guy. And perhaps we now know why Pacquiao went for that specific title, right? Why he said, okay, of all the champions, let me go for that guy. And of all the fighters that I could come back against, let me go for that guy. Because that's the one that I could win. Who knows? I don't think he would ever necessarily say that that's not really Manny style per se, but perhaps we, you know, perhaps we got some insight into that.

What about Sebastian Fundora? To me, Fundora is must see TV. Like I can't get enough of Fundora just because it's like watching an NBA player box and most NBA players can't throw a punch. You ever see an NBA player hit a heavy bag? Like it's unbelievable. They do not know even how to like turn their body.

And here's a guy built like an NBA player, certainly doesn't weigh the same as an NBA player. Most guys who are six foot five, six foot six aren't weighing 154 pounds. But even the way he like punches is like one of those dolls because of how long his arms are, he gets the win over Tim Tzu, a dominant win, another fun fight between the two of them. Obviously not as bloody, but I love watching this guy fight. I can't get enough of him.

What a, what a talent and what a family by the way. Certainly giving the Dubois a run for their money right now and I would say right now pound for pound as far as brother sister combos they're number one the Fundoras. Yeah did I not read something the other day that he's kind of been sort of he's now going to Harvard or something to do some sort of degree as well so he's kind of juggling that and boxing I think I read. He's sensational. And the biggest compliment I can give Sebastian Vendores to say that I think he's the best 154 pound fighter out there.

And considering what is in the 154 pound division. Does that include Terrence Crawford by the way? No. Okay, I just want to make sure. Cause his last fight wasn't 154, but okay, fair enough. I know it was just a pit stop. No, it doesn't. Yeah, you're right.

It doesn't. But we're still, what else is out there? It's still quite right. It doesn't. But we're still what else is out there is still quite deep. Virtual T's is out there. Madrimov is out there. Jarom Bootsenis now is 154 pounder. There's so many good 154 pounders, but I think he is the best one. He's very rangy. And I guess if you are a small fighter like a Tim Tzu, kind of built like that, you're

probably thinking, okay, let me get close to him and get inside. When you get inside, he likes to work inside as well. So he's very, very unique. And he can't be far off sort of really thinking, okay, maybe I'll take my talents to 160, maybe even 168, because I still do think if he puts a bit of size on that frame, he could be more of a problem, i.e. Hamza Shiraz.

I think he's a fantastic talent. And again, it's because when he has his glasses on, he looks a bit like Clark Kent. He's very different. He doesn't look like a killer, but he is. He is that, which is quite unique. Very, again, very much like his sister, Gabriela. Oh, and I love watching your fight as well.

And another one of those fighters on that pound for pound list that we just saw, I couldn't agree more. When you were talking to Eli about the pound for pound list that we just saw. I couldn't agree more when you were talking to Ellie about the, uh, the pound for pound list, by the way, I thought you were going to say, oh, that's the greatest like top, like they nailed it.

Usually there's nothing to debate. You just said that's the greatest collection of talent, which I guess is sort of six in one half dozen in the other, uh, over in quite similar. Yes. In Frisco, Texas, Bam Rodriguez did his thing. And so he sort of, uh, you know, there was this

worry that, okay, they announced the fight in November. We've seen some guys stumble. There wasn't really much stumbling here from Bam. He doesn't really stumble often these days. No, I mean, at the start of the show, we spoke about Usyk, who, you know, was coming to the end at 38 and without doubt the pound for pound number one. This I think is the future pound for pound number one.

He's already for me, a top six, top seven guy. He just is a killer. His feet are maybe the best in boxing. And I'm putting him up there with Bivou, with Usyk. He's clearly studied Vasily Lomachenko, and he's almost taken it to, I don't want to say another level, because I still think Loma's insane, but he's from that mode.

So he's got that Mexican grip. He's trained by the great Robert Garcia. He's in the gym with Virgil Ortiz, but he's got great movement as well. And he just wants to fight. The way in which he throws his combinations, the way in which he pivots off both feet, honestly, I think is a special talent. And again, I mean, they already signed him,

as you say, to fight Martinez. So you can imagine him really thinking, okay, I kind of make sure I've just got to get through this. Nope. He's like, okay, I just want to fight. Just let me off the leash. And he's in a position now where, I know you spoke to him a few months back

and you kind of pushed him on the Inoue thing. And I think he said 2027. They're going to want to fast track that because he's two weight classes behind Inoue. He's at 115, Inoue is at 122. In the middle was a guy called Junto Nakatani at 118. They have to start looking at these super fights for Jesse. I think if he gets past Martinez in November, they really need to look at the Junto fight. If Junto is not going to fight Inoue and then they have to start looking at Inoue because Jesse walks around at a big weight. I wouldn't be surprised if Jesse walks around the same weight, if not a bit bigger, then

Inoue. I've interviewed Jesse out of Fight Camp and he's a big guy. I think that's the super fight of all super fights sometime back end of next year. Inoue versus Jesse, it just has to happen. It would be unbelievable in Japan. It would be unbelievable in Japan. It would be unbelievable in Los Angeles. There was some talk of Inoue fighting at Dodger Stadium. Could you imagine with the Latino community in Los Angeles

and the Japanese community over there, that would be insane. And I do remember, so Inoue is fighting M.J. Akhmedailev in September. And I do remember at some point, Turkey Al M.J. Akhmadaliev in September. And I do remember at some point, Turchi Al-Sheikh saying that he was hoping to do Inoue versus Nakatani maybe December in Japan. Historically, in Japan in December,

and certainly on December 31st, they always have huge combat sports events. And I don't know if that'll be too many fights for him because he did fight in May, and then it would be September, and then it would be the biggest one. And that one has to be in December. Excuse me, that one be the biggest one. And that one has to be in December. Excuse me.

That one has to be in Japan. That one has to be in Japan. That cannot be anywhere else. Two Japanese greats. But, but yeah, I mean, and then at that point we are getting into 2026, but I agree. Like one of those fantasy fights that has to come to fruition in the next couple of years, if they

both remain on this path is Jesse Bam Rodriguez. And it was great to see him get this kind of love over in Texas, seeing Jerry Jones there at the event, the Cowboys got behind it. Um, it was weird seeing Eddie at this event, Eddie Hearn and the matchroom guys in Texas while Wembley stadium was, was filled with 90,000 people, right? But just the sign of where matchroom is

going and, and their global expansion. But yeah, he was, he was phenomenal. And again, one of those guys as we talked about with our popcorn list, just like Fendora, when he's fighting, you gotta watch. I don't care who the opponent is, just like Usyk, it's just a joy to watch him fight. And what I like about these guys,

and this is not discrediting the guys that do talk the trash, because you know, I think they've realized that sells. Fendora and Jesse Bamarigas do talk no trash whatsoever. All they do is get in the ring and deliver. And that might be quite annoying to their promoters because they're probably thinking, if you guys just spoke a little more,

I mean, we could sell out this place. But they deliver in the ring. And you don't necessarily have to talk trash to get the respect to these fighters. Bivel doesn't talk trash. Biterbiyev does not talk trash. Usyk does not talk trash. Like, I think we're starting to realize you don't need to do that to sell fights.

People will pay the pay per views or bums on seats to watch you if they know you're going to deliver. And Jesse Bam Rodriguez always delivers. Like I can't remember a fight where I'm like, eh, that weren't great. He always comes to fight, always puts on a show. And that's why I say for me, he will be, when it's all said and done in the next couple of years, pound for pound number one.

I honestly, I think he's that good. Well, he's on route to perhaps being undisputed at super bantamweight. Let's give a former undisputed champion his flowers. Earlier this week, Josh Taylor announced his retirement at 140 pounds. He was undisputed once upon a time. This is what he wrote, end of an era.

I've lived my dream for the last 10 years and conquered Mount Everest. Thank you to every single one of you for the support through what has been this mad roller coaster of a journey. Boxing is all I've ever known, but now let's see what life has to offer on the other side of the ropes. You see the Scottish flag. He represented Scotland in the Commonwealth Games

won a gold medal as well. A very fun fighter, an exciting fighter who has called it a day. Let's give him his flowers. What do you think when you think of Josh Taylor? I think this is a guy that, again, as you mentioned, was undisputed, was without doubt the pound-for-pound best fighter in Britain for maybe three or four years, was a pound-for-pounder, and that's, I guess, the biggest compliment you can give him with everyone in the world three or four years was a pound for Pounder. And that's, I guess, the biggest compliment you can give him with everyone in the world, right? There was a time when he was the best 140 pounder without a doubt. And there was a lot of talk about him going up to fight Terrence Crawford at 147 because Crawford couldn't get a fight. And a lot of people at the

time and people have short memories were like, you know what? Josh has got a chance here. That's how good Josh Taylor was, that we actually said he has a chance against an all time great in Terence Crawford. And what I like about his undisputed run is that he didn't just fight someone for all the belts, right? It's not like someone fighting Usyk now, for example, Joseph Parker fighting Usyk

and just winning all of them. He went round and fought individual guys for their belts and then came to America and fought the unbeaten Ramirez and stole his belts. He was an incredible fighter and I just I hate the fact that he's now maybe fought over recent years for the defeat Tiafema Lopez. I think two defeats against Jack Catchell, the defeat against Echo Usman. I like to remember him and he mentioned it there as a guy that got to top of Mount Everest and was there. Like he was there at the top of Mount Everest.

I was lucky enough to be his last fighter, unlucky because he didn't really perform. And it was sad to see because I think Scotland's got such a fan base for boxing. They love fighting up there. And like now Josh has gone. I'm like, who's going to fill the hydro? Who's going to do it? And I just hope that Scotland can unearth another talent as they did with Josh Taylor

when Ricky Burns kind of called it quits. But no, an incredible fighter, clearly no longer at his best, problems with his eyes. And I think he's made the tough but right decision to say enough's enough. Evan Korn works for Top Rank. He's been a part of the Top Rank family for a very long time.

I respect his opinion on boxing more than anyone. I always reach out to him to get his take on things going on in the boxing business. He tweeted, Josh's run at 140 pounds rivals just about any undisputed run in the four belt era, a special blend of athleticism, power and grit. So there you have it. And yeah, I mean, he would know again, I respect his opinion, your opinion, and you said some fantastic things about Josh as well. So we wish him well in retirement and happy trails and congratulations on an incredible career.

Surely I would imagine a hall of Famer in the next, you know, four to eight years. Speaking of top rank end of an era this weekend at a they're back at the theater next door to Madison square garden, their final show on ESPN. It is headlined by Xander Zayas, Bruce Shushu Carrington fighting in the co-main event of Brownsville, Brooklyn, where the likes of Mike Tyson and Zab Judah and Riddick Bo all sort of, you know, grew into the legends that they became later in life. This is an interesting one because, yes, you know, we like to talk about the business of the sport.

And one thing that I love about the zone is that they work with all kinds of promoters as of right this moment. We don't know where top rank is going. We don't know if they're going here, there or anywhere in between. I think we, we all sort of suspected that we would find out. But as of right now, the final top ranked show on ESPN is this Saturday, and that's it. The schedule stops.

Now there are top ranked fighters who are scheduled to compete in upcoming dates. In a way is one of them. Brian Norman is another, but this to me is a little unsettling. I'm not doubting them. I'm not questioning their decision-making, but it is weird because when this deal was announced,

some, I don't know, I think it was, I think it was, if memory serves me correct, Connor Floyd Fight Week, MayMack Fight Week, so that was 2017, some eight years ago. This was a big deal. ESPN wasn't in the boxing game. They got back into it with a massive, massive relationship, a massive partnership with Top Rank,

and now it comes to an end on Saturday. Strange. It's strange that Top Rank, who have so many fantastic young stars, I mean, so many, I mean, we were waxing lyrical about the card they put on at small MSG, I think about four months ago. Yeah, February.

Look at the, yeah, look at the stars. Was it that long ago? Okay, look at the stars on that card. So they've clearly got so much talent. And I just find it strange that they've not aligned themselves to a broadcast. I thought they might jump on the Amazon link that PBC have done. I thought they could join the zone. I thought there could be sort of sharing situation. So is, if you're a fighter, you must be slightly worried. Okay, what's going on? I need to know where I'm working. I need to know where I'm working.

I need to know if I'm working or do I need to go and seek sort of employment elsewhere? And it isn't just top rank. I mean, there's a situation over here with boxer, same situation. I mean, if you're a boxer fighters, and sorry, I know we're talking top rank, but if you're a boxer fighters, it's quite similar. Like they were on the biggest platform, similar to ESPN, Sky Sports. All of a sudden, everyone's kind of scratching their head. Okay, what's going on with Boxer Fighters?

What's going on with Ben Whittaker? What's going on with a lady you had in your pound for pound rankings, Lauren Price? What's going on with Fraser Clarke? It's similar. I think it's not a great look when two of the biggest sports broadcasters, two of the biggest sport entities decide, okay, we're no longer taking bottom boxing. I think boxing's in a really good place right now, but there has to be a little bit of a concern when ESPN is saying, okay, no more. And Sky Sports, as far as we know, is saying no more.

I mean, I worked for the zone. So yes, it's all good that the zone has now become the biggest sort of home of boxing, but I think competition is great in this sport. So it would have been good, I think, for Sky Sports to still do their thing and ESPN to still do their thing. So I think if you are a fighter for top rank and for boxer right now, it's worrying times. Look, both of them will get homes because both of them have a lot of talent. But again, it's things you would have expected to have been sorted by now. Yeah. And if you're an old head, at least for right now, at least as of Sunday morning, there

is no American linear television channel with boxing on its programming schedule with HBO, you know, out of the game, Showtime out of the game. Uh, ESPN will be out of the game as well. As of right this moment, uh, not on, and, and you guys have it over, uh, in the UK, you had it with Sky, you had it with, uh, BT and then TNT

as well. But as you said, Dizone, not just the home of boxing, the undisputed global home of boxing. So please, get it right, get it right, all right? Yeah, yeah, my apologies, my apologies, right, you're right. Right now, it's most definitely the- Undisputed, TM that, all right, get it right, get it right. That's not my parting shot, this is my parting shot.

Any guesses, Aide, any guesses, Adé? Any guesses as to what the party, there was so much to choose from. From Wembley, of course, you were there in attendance, to Las Vegas, to Frisco. Where are we going here? Look out, come on. Only one place to go.

Like, I know you like to throw a curve ball and all that nonsense, but if we're not going to South Port of King, if we're not going to Power for Power number one, if we're not going one of the greatest heavyweights, in fact, let me take that back, one of the greatest fighters of all time, then I don't know what we're doing.

I'm not quite sure. I'm happy you're saying that, and I'm happy people are starting to finally say like, yeah, he was an incredible cruise weighter, became an incredible undisputed champion twice at heavyweight. That means he's a generational grade. I'm happy people are starting to recognize this. Some might say he's even a handsome man

as well like I mean you were up there face to face with him striking features and when I think of handsome I think of Oleksandr Usyk and I also think of the pride of Mexico Hector Beltran who had this incredible stoppage did you see this at the end of his fight on Saturday in Frisco Texas against Edgar Gutierrez? Look at the body work here. Look at this. Look at that. Like a Pez dispenser. A third round KO improving to 3-0. Hector Beltran Jr. fighting out of Dallas Texas. What a win. Come on. That was impressive. You have to admit. Did you see the way his head bounced back? Goody air.

The sound effects are pretty good. The sound effects are pretty good because it was like, but like there was no stoppage there. A part in Shotgun. Look at it. Look, do it again. Do it again. Look at this. Look at this body shot, do, do, do, do, do. It's this bit here. Look at this, look at this body shot. And then boom, boom, boom. I mean, that's three straight. Yeah, yeah. Come on.

What do you mean there was no stoppage? Does the stoppage have to be face first? I want to see a face plant. So if you could show me the one on Saturday night, Wembley Stadium. Now you're calling your own Pauline. Champion versus champion. Undisputed. This is crazy.

If you don't mind, I would want to see Alexander Usyk stoppaged over Daniel Dubois. There's actually a rule back there that I'm the only one that can call for the parting shot. So that's why it's not coming up. Damn. Can you imagine? Damn, that's-

Can you imagine? Can you call for it please? There you go. Yeah, there's the music. Come on, talk us through it. Talk us through it right now. Give us your sound effect. Can I have a notice of you?

There's a part of me, yeah. I know I'm gonna get stick for this. Oh my god It's every time I watch it back in but you know, like oh We're not gonna show it. You know, like how quick Daniel DuBois gets up and walks over. Yeah He's going you know, he's getting a bit of stick for that Now some people are some of that one second you got 10 like that, could you have got up at eight? I think even if you got up, you would have been popped back down. But Usyk was just so good.

Cause Daniel Dubois was coming out like a record machine. Like he's swinging away. And Daniel Dubois does land a good right hand on Usyk. Here, there. And he's like, okay, you wanna do that? You wanna, oh, okay. But this is quite risky from Usyk to open up like this against someone who's, look, oh my Lord.

It's still, by the way, it still looks like a cruiserweight against a heavyweight in there. You know what I mean? Like just the way his back is and his body, like he's not your typical big heavyweight. This, I guess it will just never go away. The Daniel Dubois like quitter. I just, I guess it's never gonna go away. The Daniel Dubois like quit thing. I guess it's never gonna go away,

which is a shame and it's unfair. But I saw Tyson backing him, which was great to see. It's just annoying at this point. Like you get in there with Alexander Usyk and you take those punches and you see how you react to it. Like it's crazy. The whole thing's great. By the way, it was never valid when he fought Joyce.

It was never valid when he fought Usyk in 2023 and it's not valid after this fight. Come on. It's crazy. To be fair, to be fair, Don Charles, I think your best friend, Joseph Parker and Lawrence O'Cody said something along those lines as well. And Don Charles was like, okay, wait till you fight him then. Yeah. As he should. As he should say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As he should say. It's horrible for a young man to get this kind of stick. I think it's horrible because he's proven himself in the last three fights that if the going does get tough,

he does find something. Ultimately he's in there with Alexander Usyk. What's he supposed to do? Yes. What are you supposed to do? No one has figured him out and he appears to be greater and tougher to figure out in rematches very clearly.

So, Dan and Dubois is just 28. So, you know, there's a bit of a storm. Yeah, 27, 28, yeah. 27, 28. So like the fact, there's a bit of a storm. Yeah, 27, 28, yeah. 27, 28, so like, the fact that he even fought for Undisputed at this age, when just a few years ago, five years ago, people were writing him off. Five years ago, people said this guy didn't have heart and look what he turned into.

So, he'll be just fine. All this nonsense will wash over and we look forward to seeing him back in there, probably at some point in 2026. Alright, we're out of time. How brilliant was Andy Lee? Loved having him on. That was tremendous stuff and Ellie Scotney was equally as brilliant. It was two great chats and so we hope you enjoyed them as much as us. A lot of great action going down this weekend on DAZN and all over the world.

The boxing of course will be back to talk about it all this time next week. For now though, for Ade, I'm Ariel, that's our team. Appreciate you guys watching and appreciate you guys supporting. We shall be talking to you next week. Enjoy the fights.