The Ariel Helwani Show - Big E

Episode Date: September 23, 2021

On the first episode of The Ariel Helwani Show, new WWE champion Big E joins Ariel to talk about the mental health struggles he dealt with as a kid, the benefits of meditation and the challenges he still faces today as one of the faces of WWE. Plus, he offers some advice to Ariel and anyone else who's struggling with their mental health (39:10).Ettore Ewen, also known as Big E, is the current WWE champion. He is also the co-host of The New Day podcast. You can follow him on Instagram @WWEBigE.For more episodes of The Ariel Helwani Show, please follow the show on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. To get more from Ariel, subscribe to his YouTube channel, read his writing on Substack, watch his work for BT Sport and follow The MMA Hour or The Ringer MMA Show.Theme music: "Frantic" by The Lovely Feathers

Hey everyone, welcome to the very first episode of the Ariel Helwani show. This is very exciting. So when I left ESPN in June, I announced that I'll be doing a whole host of things, including resurrecting the MMA hour, including working for the Ringer, including having my own sub stack newsletter, including working for BT Sport. But one of the things I was most excited about was doing this show. Why? Because it's completely independent of everything else that I'm doing. It's my own little pet project. It's something that I've been wanting to do for quite some time. The Ariel Helwani show. And the reason why I held onto that name

for all these years and never called anything, the Ariel Helwani show. I've never had a show called the Ariel Helwani show is because I was waiting for this moment, the opportunity to talk to people outside of the MMA world about their trials and tribulations, about their ups and downs, about mental health, about depression, about their hopes and fears and dreams and futures and past and present and all that stuff and more. And so this is where you can find those conversations. Of course, you know where to find my other stuff. You know where to find the MMA content. MMA Hour, Vox, MMA Fighting, The Ringer, you know where to find that stuff.

But this is the place where you'll heal from people outside of the combat sports world. You'll heal from all kinds of people, famous people, not famous people. And I'm really excited to do this. So excited to be kicking it off this week with a very special guest. Now, each and every week, probably on Thursdays, that's the plan. I'll post a new podcast, a new interview. We'll also have my YouTube page up and running where

you can get the video portion of this conversation. That's youtube.com slash Ariel Hawane. I hope you'll subscribe to that. I hope you'll also subscribe to this podcast on whatever platform you get your podcasts. I appreciate you doing so very much. Now, why am I so excited about this conversation? Because it's someone who is in the news, but also someone who has talked openly as of late about his battles with mental health. His name is Big E, aka Etor Ewan. He is the current WWE champion. He has been in pro wrestling for quite some time, over a decade. And just recently, in fact, last Monday, not this Monday, the previous Monday, he cashed in his Money in the Bank briefcase to become the WWE champion. And the outpouring of love and support and congratulations that he received was amazing. You could tell that this man is beloved in the pro wrestling community, not only by the fans, the media, but also his peers, which I think is the coolest thing. Now, I wanted to talk to him about that. I wanted to talk to him about the

moment, about realizing his dream, about where he goes from here. But I also wanted to talk to him about mental health because on the same day that he became WWE champion, he posted his own podcast. He's the host of a podcast called New Day Feel the Power with his buddies Kofi Kingston and Xavier Woods. You may be familiar with them from the world of WWE, and they talked very openly about their own battles with mental health. This in light of Daphne, who's a former WCW superstar, committing suicide just a few days prior. And she was very open with her struggles. And unfortunately, she succumbed to those struggles. I have tried to be more open with my own mental health issues,

the ups and downs, and especially over the past year, and especially in the midst of the pandemic. And I feel a lot better. And I feel a lot happier now that I'm doing all these cool and exciting things. But I just thought that he was very honest. He was very open, very candid, very forthright about his own struggles. This is a man who used to play football for the University of Iowa and in the midst of that was so incredibly depressed that he had to be checked into a mental ward on multiple occasions. And he had to go through a ton of psychotherapy

and clinical therapy, medical therapy, all kinds of therapy. And now he's been able to figure it out. He's been able to get on the right path and lead a happy and healthy life, but he still continues to work at it and try to overcome whatever issues he's dealing with mentally. And so I just think it's very inspiring to hear from a man of his stature about the ups and downs. He's a larger than life figure, but he's also very introspective and very genuine in talking about his trials and tribulations as well. And so without further ado, here is the very first episode of the Ariel Hawanisha. I hope you will enjoy this. Even if you will, uh, you know, if you, if you're not an WWE fan, if you're not a wrestling fan,

I don't think it matters. I hope you will enjoy the conversation and I hope you'll stick around because like I said, this isn't a place for combat sports interviews. It might pop up here and there. It's just a place to have conversations with really interesting people. Here's the very first one with the brand new WWE champion, the one and only Big E. Enjoy. I want to congratulate you right off the top. And it's not because you won that belt a couple of weeks ago. It's because of a podcast that you did on September 13th with your friends Kofi Kingston and Xavier Woods, aka Austin Creed. You guys did a podcast. You do a great podcast. My kids love it as well. It's called New Day, Feel the Power.

You can listen to it exclusively on Spotify, I do believe. You guys talked at length about mental health and you talked about your battles with mental health. And one of the things that I really want to focus on in this show that I'll be doing is mental health because it's something that I've dealt with and had to overcome and at times not overcome and just battle each and every day. And I feel like I'm doing a pretty good job, but to hear someone like you go in depth about what you went through, especially when you were in college, I had no idea that you had been through so much. Now I don't want you here to, you know, go through everything you went through on that podcast.

I want people to go and listen to the podcast themselves because you were incredibly open and candid, but I just wanted to thank you for that and congratulate you on having the courage to talk about that. Cause I'm sure it's not something that you would have imagined, you know, 10 years ago that you would be so open to sharing with the rest of the world, I would imagine, right? Oh, not at all. Even, man, even probably three, four years ago, it's something that I don't think I would have been open enough to, or that I would have felt comfortable enough to share. I think one of the biggest changes for me is I really decided to

spend this pandemic working on myself and focusing more on meditation and on just doing more of the work. And I think for me, it's really begun with self-acceptance, with finding self-love. And it can sound cliche and corny, but I think because I've been able to find my own acceptance within myself, that I don't feel this constant need to have everyone approve of me. So if people think less of me because they found out that, hey, I really struggled with my mental health or I was in a psych ward multiple times, that's okay because I'm okay with who I am. And that took a very long time.

I'm 35 and now I'm just now getting to a point where I'm okay with myself and I'm proud of myself. And for me, it was just a long road of self-loathing, of not really seeing much value in myself. And I've been so fortunate. In many ways, it just feels like so much of my life is much value in myself. And I've been so fortunate. In many ways, it just feels like so much of my life is aligning right now. So much of my personal life, my career,

everything is coming together. And I'm so incredibly grateful because there was a point like you alluded to, especially during my college years, where I just never could have fathomed that I would find not only career success, but that I would be fine with myself more than fine with myself. And yeah, and thank you once again for bringing up that podcast. It was it

was important for us. And we did it. Because for people who love pro wrestling, I'm sure you've you know, and unfortunately, she passed away. And I didn't know her but i remember watching her in wcw and what really stuck with me was the real outpouring of love from so many of the people that have worked with her i saw nothing but positive things she clearly had a really positive impact on people and i thought man if someone can be so beloved and can have this kind of impact on people, but not feel that love herself, that resonated. And so we just wanted to have a conversation and let people know, you know, I'm glad I think a lot of the stigma associated with mental health is starting to fall away. It's starting to diminish because people are having these open conversations.

And I think the more you get wrestlers and athletes and successful people who are more open with their struggles, I just think it's beneficial. I think it's helpful for all because so many of us just suffer in shame. And that's what made things worse for me when I was in college. I just bottled things up because I felt alone. I felt unworthy. I felt like I was a burden to people. Andled things up because I felt alone. I felt unworthy. I felt like

I was a burden to people. And so we just want to have more of these conversations to help break down that stigma. Did you get a ton of feedback after that podcast? I would imagine a lot of people who are feeling alone, who are feeling depressed, who are feeling like there's no way out probably were very, you know, no one wants to hear that someone's going through this, but in a weird way, it almost makes you feel a little bit better that you're not the only one who feels these things. And then you see this guy who's larger than life on television champion. I mean, even for me, it's like, okay, this isn't abnormal. This isn't a crazy thing. So I'm wondering if you heard from a lot of people after that podcast, and if so, how does that make you feel? Because

that could be a burden in its own right. You know, like when you become this symbol of, you know, this role model and you're the guy who was able to overcome it because I'm assuming you haven't overcome, no one overcomes mental health. You just continue to battle and try to figure it out. So what was the aftermath like for you? reached out and said some really positive things or felt like they they saw themselves or heard themselves in the podcast and uh and i was really grateful for that i think one of my reservations with telling my story for a while too is i i wanted to make sure that if people were hurting or reached out to me or stopped me in an airport that i was never dismissive or that I could be worthy of whatever. I don't know if it's being a role model, whatever it is, but I wanted to make sure that, all right, if I'm going to put myself out there and I'm going to be a voice for mental health, that I need to be there for people when I can. Obviously, you can't help every stranger.

You can't help everyone. But I wanted to be there for everyone. And I didn't know if I was ready to be that a while ago. Um, I still don't know if, if I'm a perfect representative, uh, but I, I want to, I just wanted to be honest. I wanted to be honest. I wanted to let people know. Um, and, uh, everyone has been, everyone who's reached out has been so kind. So many people heard themselves in the podcast. They had similar stories. And I'm grateful for that. And yeah, that for me, I the biggest thing is I don't have all the answers. I wish I had here, you know, a set of guidelines with how to get past it. I don't, I just don't. So I just wanted

to speak to what I had experienced, what I've been going through. And so we're just kind of trying to figure this all out together, which I think we're all, that's life. That's what we're all doing. So yeah, I think I positioned myself now as someone who, yeah, is, I don't know, we're on this thing together. And it's not easy. It's hard, man. It's hard to, I'm a bit all over the place because I relish the role of being a role model, but in many ways, I don't feel worthy of that. I don't feel, I don't have all the answers, but I'm glad we were just able to talk. That's all.

I just want to talk and I hope we can continue to talk and I hope people will reach out. And I'm sorry if I don't have all the answers for people who DM me. I'm trying to get back to all the DMs. So many people have been, it can be a lot, but I just hope we can continue to have these conversations. Sorry, that was all over the place.

No, no, it was great. Did you record that before? I believe you did, before you won the belt. Yes, so I didn't know. I didn't know what it would be. So we just decided after Daphne to record it. And it just so happened to drop on the same day. So the fact that it dropped as about around the same time, you know, it dropped in that morning. And then a few

hours later, I'm putting out this tweet saying that I'm going to cash in. And then that whole day was a whirlwind. So it did seem serendipitous that came out this weekend. Like the symbolism there is crazy, right? That you're able to talk about this on the day, unbeknownst to you, on the day that you become champion and realize your dream. And so here we have an opportunity to listen to someone's struggles and then almost like get caught up on the story and see how much you have overcome just to get to this point, to be able to be in the position to cash in and become the champion of this massive organization. That, to me, blew my mind. And it was in plan. You could have timed this, and you didn't. And so that, to me, was almost like a sign that, man,

the stars are kind of aligning for you. And then to hear, to go back, because I listened to it after you won. So I would imagine the, you know, the reaction would have been even greater. So many people were so happy for you, but like to hear what you've been through and being in psych ward and having to go through all those trials and tribulations, it was really incredible that it happened on that day. And I would imagine a lot of people felt the same way. And so when you were in that moment on that day, winning that belt, I can't even imagine the flood of emotions that went through.

Could you even begin to describe what that was like in that moment when you finally got to hold that belt? Yeah. So I had these almost surreal moments where I kind of, and maybe this is a byproduct of meditation, but there are times where I almost, I'll look in the mirror and I feel like I connect with 19 year old, 20 year old me who felt very lost, who felt very depressed and very disconnected. And I have these moments where I'm damn proud of myself because I envisioned at 2021 when I was really struggling that I was going to spend the rest of my life, who knows how long that life would be, that I was going to spend it depressed, that I was going to spend it still lost, not finding my place in the world. And now I can look back at 35 and think, man, we did it. We made it through the hell that life was those years ago. We made it through just an awful, awful period in my life where now

not only have I found value in myself, but there are times where I can look out and I can see that I'm the reason someone is smiling or laughing or enjoying the show. I've been able to turn my life around. I've been able to find self-love. I've been able to find some semblance of peace. I'm proud of myself. And that, for me, I would normally not say that because I don't like coming off as braggadocious, but it's nice to get to a point where I'm comfortable with myself, where I can say, you know, this feels healthy.

This feels normal. I feel like I've gotten to a good place in my life where I can be proud of myself, where I can say, hey, I feel like I found my place in the world. I feel like I've finally found who I'm meant to be. I found the path that I'm meant to take. And everything about my current direction in my life feels right. Like, I feel like I'm finally able to trust my intuition and my gut. And I'm proud of being able to overcome everything and you know so much

of my there are these real moments in my life too whether i don't know if everyone you know if you believe in god or purpose or direction of the universe whatever it is but there are so many like like you said dropping the podcast the same day becoming the same day i became wwe champion I became WWE champion. So many of the big things in my life just can't be coincidence. Like when I got to Iowa and me getting to Iowa, getting my scholarship. So when I got to Iowa, I was working out. I was a senior. So anyone who's into college football recruiting whatsoever, your junior year of recruiting is your biggest year. But I was at a prep school for a bunch of years that didn't have a football team. And finally, I transferred my senior year to a public school that had football. So at this point, I'm 5'11", maybe, trying to play defensive tackle. I play at 235 pounds.

There's no reason just playing my senior year at these numbers. I probably should be 6'3". I should be 300 pounds playing defensive tackle. There's no reason I should have an offer from Iowa. But I just so happened at the end of my senior year, I'm in the weight room is connected to the coach's office and the Iowa recruiter who is the defensive coordinator coach then he recruited iowa he walks in sees me benching 315 pounds at the age of 18 uh i might have still been 17 uh for a set of 10 if i had been sick that day if i had been elsewhere if i had been doing curls or something else like i don't end up at iowa um same thing like very similarly being in the right place at the right time being friends with my couple who played football at iowa i was still even though i was done with my career at iowa i was uh still allowed in the weight room uh coach so i was a strength coach at the time i had a bunch of injuries but he was still letting me uh come in afterwards between groups when the when the current players were still there i was at the weight room still working out and that allowed me to stay connected to my

couple who was an old teammate and my couple was friends with mike doherty who had randomly met jim ross on a flight and he became kind of that liaison for iowa wrestlers who were done with their amateur career who wanted to get into wwe and so if i hadn't been if i decided to work out elsewhere or if humpel didn't know doherty or if Mike Doherty didn't happen to randomly catch the same flight as Jim Ross so there's there's just these real moments and that all came you know this was 12 years ago and from that Mike Humple came up to me and said hey would you want to try WWE at some point I grew up a fan but it never ever crossed my mind that this is something that I could possibly do. So I look back at

sometimes where I think I'm just, you know, in the midst of my depression and my struggles, where I'm thinking I'm just randomly, like everything feels random. It feels like, it doesn't feel like there's a real direction for my life. It doesn't feel like there's a God or a universe that is pulling me in a positive direction. But when I think back at these moments where it just doesn't feel like coincidence, there are too many powerful, incredible things going on right now that are leading me along a certain path. So I'm just incredibly humbled and grateful. I feel in many ways like I'm, I don't know if I'm a vessel or conduit, whatever it is, I feel like I'm walking in my purpose. And these are things that like, I'm not someone who

would have been receptive to meditation or to a lot of these conversations even a few years ago. But I feel like whatever guiding force there is and has been in my life through the ups and the downs i'm just incredibly grateful for for where i'm at and what i've been able to work through and i haven't been able i haven't done this alone it's just so many incredible people along the way who have helped me get to this point do you ever feel i know you just became champion, but things were going well for you before you won the belt, of course. Do you ever sometimes feel guilty for being depressed? Do you still feel sometimes down? Like you look around, everything seems to be going well. You're making money.

You're on TV. You're with your friends. You're famous. And then some days you wake up and you're just feeling off. And then you say to yourself, because I feel this way as well. I feel sometimes like things are going great. I have a family of kids and I feel off and I almost get mad at myself. How dare you feel down?

How dare you feel off? Things are going so great. People would die to be in your position. You're healthy, all that stuff. And I don't know how to, you know, how to fix that. I don't know how to not feel guilty. And maybe it's just because I'm Jewish and I have terrible Jewish guilt. I don't know what it is. But I'm wondering if you ever feel that as well. Like even now as

champion, like do you ever have a day in the last week or so where you're just not feeling on top of the world as you should as champion or as people think you should as champion? And you kind of get down on yourself or you get mad at yourself. Does that ever happen to you? No, of course. There are definitely times too where I'd wake up just really sad and I'd look around at my life and think, you have no reasons to be sad or to be depressed right now. But, you know, what's really allowed me, what's helped me grow is realizing, no, this is an issue of brain chemistry. Like, I think the more like dealing with therapy and going through therapy, learning more about myself, learning more about my triggers, I'm able to identify and say, you know, it's okay. All right, you can take stock of your life and realize you have all these positive things going on. But yet you feel really sad, you feel depressed. But I think when I having a better understanding of why I feel the way I do, or knowing there are certain triggers,

or sometimes there's just certain times in, you know, like sometimes it's that time of the month, uh, we have a better understanding of how your body reacts. So that's allowed me to be kinder to myself and not be so hard on myself for, for feeling down because that really can be the worst to realize that, man, you're, you have such a beautiful life. You're so blessed. You have all these incredible things, but yet you don't feel the love inside. You don't feel the warmth that you should feel. But I think just being able to better understand what's going on up there has helped me to be kinder to myself. One of the coolest byproducts of you winning the belt, at least for me, watching from afar was seeing all your peers congratulate you and see how happy they were

for you. The one that probably kind of hit me in the feels the most, in the heart the most, was seeing Bray Wyatt's tweet, because he's kind of this, you know, this figure that you don't really get to see outside of his character. And we know that he left recently. And then to just kind of see him give you props publicly was really cool i'm wondering how that felt for you and was there one message not specifically the brain message but if you want to talk about that one just seeing you know i saw paul white and so many people give i mean it was everywhere um how it felt you know it's one thing to hear from fans or media but to you know get that love from your peers your colleagues and

if there was one message that kind of stood out above the rest that really hit you the most. No, that means a ton for me. Obviously, having the adoration of the fans, that's the reason you do it. But there's something extra special too, especially from guys that you have a ton of respect for and that you've loved watching for years inside the company outside the company it's hard to really isolate a single message there were just so many so many incredible ones um from people who've helped me along the way from some people uh who maybe i had never been in the ring with. So I don't, and I don't want to necessarily spill any details from anyone who texted me or anything, but I do truly value so many of those messages.

And I'm someone, I'm also a big believer of like giving people their flowers while, while they could still smell them, but, but not me. So I'm, I'm like everyone I'm, I'm trying to get better at accepting compliments,

but I, I squirm and and bristle and and and wanna I wanna deflect um but uh it genuinely means so much to me that uh everyone has been so kind because in my mind I'm still a former football player who got in the ring and still trying to figure it out uh I I don think I've mastered my craft yet, but I do feel confident that I know what I'm doing and I've grown a lot. So it's really, I can't even, I'm not even properly contextualizing how much those messages mean to me. They mean so, so much from all your peers. Getting the respect from your peers is the best. Does this still kind of feel surreal to you? I mean, it happened around 10 days ago,

you sitting there with the belt being champion, you know, you've already had some big moments since then. Has it sunk in yet? Or do you feel like you're still processing it? Definitely still processing it. So there's, I'm juxtaposing this feeling of knowing I'm ready for this. And I know I feel confident with that, but also I think sometimes when you work towards something for so long, you get to a certain point where probably to protect your sanity, you're, you start to find, uh, I guess, find a way where, okay, I'd be, I'd be fine if I never got the big one, if I never got the title. And I never gave up on that dream, but I didn't want it to eat away at me. I didn't want it to keep me up at night.

I didn't want it to, I didn't want to feel like everything else that I had done meant nothing if I didn't become WWE champion. So a part of me just still had that dream going but kind of put it on the back burner. And then it wasn't until pretty much this last year or so of being on separate brands from the new day being pushed as a singles getting the IC championship. And then being money in the bank winner and then winning the title. It's all happening.

It's all happening now and uh you know i i hearken back to to even days in fcw where i didn't know if i was going to get fired after three months that's one one of the reasons i took the job is because my parents have a house in tampa and i thought hey if they fire me in three months i'll just live with them save my money and go back to iowa like you never know in this business when it's all just gone. And I'm grateful that I've been able to push past those moments of self-doubt and not knowing and I'm still here. Could you tell us what it was like? You always hear these stories and sometimes we get to see a little bit of it when you walk back through the curtain and

you're showered with love and there's people back there and talking to you. And then you go to like, you know, I've seen enough of the behind the scenes footage where that seems like a really special moment with you and the rest of the company and your colleagues. Could you tell us what that was like when you walked back as champion for the first time? Yeah. So I probably spent at least 20 minutes afterwards, just thanking everyone, you know, we go least 20 minutes afterwards just thanking everyone. We go off air and I just wanted to make the rounds and thank all the fans in the building. So by the time I got back through Gorilla and through the curtain, I didn't expect that many

people to still be there. But I was really humbled that just dozens of other wrestlers, of other superstars, producers, so many people backstage were there to just be kind to congratulate me to, man that meant a lot, because we're all busy, everyone could have been at the hotel room, they could have left, they could have gotten out of there, but the fact that so many people stay meant so much man, it's really beautiful to know that you can have that kind of effect on your peers and the people that you share a locker room with. And it makes me think, man, I must have done something right along the way.

It's always it's been important to me to strive to be a good person, to to be to be someone that when my career is done, I hope that people say, man, he did so much in the ring and entertained us. But I also want to have the respect of my peers and to not have to worry about anyone outing me for being an awful person. I want like what you see is what you get. I want people to think like that's just a genuine human being. And, and the love from everyone made me think you're doing something right. Yes, sir. Amen. Did you think, and you won the, the, the briefcase, you captured it in July. Did you think that this would happen so soon? Sometimes it takes months, obviously not as fast as Nikki Cross, but, you know, relatively fast. This all unfolded for you. Initially, did you think it

would go down two months later where you would be able to cash it in and win the belt? Or do you think it would be a more long, drawn out process? I thought it was going to be long and drawn out because at one point, it looked like I was going to be doing stuff with Corbin for a while. And then there's the stuff with Logan Paul. So you think maybe that's the direction things are going for a while. But it's, as you know, it's a topsy-turvy, turbulent industry company of ours.

So things change all the time and you never really know. And we also had Otis not that long, who had a briefcase and didn't end up becoming world champion. That's happened many times or many other instances. So you never know if that's going to be you too. But I'm glad that was not the case for me. I think, as you know, big into MMA, I've devoted my life to covering MMA. I think pro wrestling right now is a hundred times hotter than MMA.

I think pro wrestling is more interesting today than it has been in the last 20 years, not since the late nineties. And you know what I'm referring to the competition and, you know, guys jumping, like that's great for everyone. I think it's great for WWE. I think it's great for the fans. I think it's great for the business. I think it's great for you guys. What is it like now being a part of that for the first time in a long time as one of the centerpieces? You're not just the bit player here. You're one of the champs. They are hitching their wagon to you as people are deciding which side they're on and all this stuff. This is great. It feels like late 90s, Monday Night Wars stuff. What's it like to be in the midst of all of that

as one of the top dogs? Man, it's exciting because that's what I came up on, man. Watching wrestling in the mid-90s, mid to late 90s, and those Monday Night Wars, that was, to me, at least for me, that felt like the golden era. And we all have our different golden eras. But for me as a kid, I loved that era so much. And like you said, man, it is an exciting time. And for me personally, I am glad that so many other extremely talented performers have opportunities to showcase their skills. That there's a place for people to work and to show how good they are. And I think if anything, it should force us in WWE to say, hey, let's show that we're the best.

Let's step up here. Let's show that we can put on barn burners of shows every single week. So that's the beautiful thing. I think it's a kick in the ass of the industry, and it's a great thing. I think it's a really positive thing all around, and I love to see talented people do their thing. So I have nothing negative to say about the state of wrestling and where we're at right now. Like you said, I think it's a hot time for anyone who's a LAPS fan.

Come back, man. Take a look at what's going on right now. Because I think there's a lot of excitement in the industry right now. And a lot of incredible things going on. So right now, I feel, especially like you said, I'm not just a guy on the show like i'm i'm put in the in the captain's seat right now and i'm in that seat and uh if the shows aren't good that's on me these you know that i'm expected to be the one to help bring the the tide up you know you know to help you know we're all supposed to rise together and i'm supposed to help drive that that ship. So I'm excited about the direction of our industry.

I'm excited where things are right now. And to see the growth, I think, like you said, I don't think it's a time for us to complain or to, you know, there are people who will want to poke holes in things. I think if anything, let's focus on us. Let's focus on getting better. Let's focus on putting on better shows, on giving fans what they want. And let's really spearhead this time in our industry. I think it's a great time for us. Now, there's a pay-per-view this Sunday, Extreme Rules. Correct me if I'm wrong. As of right now, you are not on the card or am I missing something? I think you are currently correct. I have to keep,

you know, you would be surprised sometimes I have to look on Twitter to see what I'm doing. But as of now, I think that's correct. But I'm used to keeping my head on a swivel. Things change very quickly around here. This is going to change, right? I mean, you have to be a part of the card in some way, shape or form. You're the champ. I will be there. I know I will be there. I will be present in the building, but we'll see. Nothing's announced right now. Okay. Are we, are we moving towards new day versus the bloodline?

Is that perhaps a survivor series thing? Is that where we're going towards? I don't think we had that resolved on Monday. I think there's a lot more to figure out there. So I would, I'd love to do more than we have such a, I think we had an incredible run with the usos and uh this just the bloodline element and now with me as wwe champion just adds so much more to it so i don't think we're done at all and i think survivor series is uh is a perfect place to resolve that and um for

you do you have it like before at some point the run always comes to an end but is there a dream match for you like you want to defend your title against this person before this initial run comes to an end? Is there someone in mind? As ridiculous as it may sound, I got to get that Goldberg match. I just need it. And I get it. I get it. It might not be for everyone.

But when I went on my little Goldberg diatribe, I didn't really think that I could get the Goldberg match. But now that he just had the issue with Bobby, the leg issue at SummerSlam, he's still out there. And I have what he wants now. So why? It would be so incredibly full circle for people who don't know. I met this man over 20 years ago in the 90s. I met him when I was a kid at a signing. He was my favorite wrestler in the world. I loved him when i was a kid at a signing he was my favorite wrestler in the

world i loved him he was my childhood idol and uh the fact that i could get that goldberg match is kind of ridiculous in the best ways so let's do that let's put that on you think it happens i think so i think it just why not why not he's still around around. He has an unresolved issue. As far as I know, I think he said he had two matches left on his contract. And I think he had the one at SummerSlam. So why? I'd like to close out his time. Can you imagine if you're the retirement match for Goldberg?

It's so ridiculous. I'm beaming because, yeah, it's's a childhood dream it's not even a dream i as a child i could never even fathom this as a possibility but i would love that well why do you feel like fans you know they have this weird relationship towards some of the guys who come back right they you know like goldberg cena sometimes they say oh no we don't uh they get upset you know they get you but clearly like this means a lot to you clearly this is something that you want and yet i can guarantee you if they book it there will be people especially on the internet we know how it can be on the internet who will be very upset why do you feel like they can't appreciate it the way you would well i get that too and you know i'm not here to uh demean anyone for being a part-timer Look, if someone said, hey, I'll give you $5 million

to wrestle two times in a year, like who's gonna turn that down? So I'm not one to really judge his contract or whatever, but I do understand, you know, there's a perception that we're the ones, we, the guys who are on all the shows, who are doing your Kalamazoo's, we're the ones we the guys who are on all the shows who are doing your Kalamazoo's. We're the ones doing the live events. We're the ones doing media for three hours.

We're the ones who put the work in and many times for less money. And so, you know, my focus would really be, you know, moving forward. My focus is also on the guys who are here on a nightly basis who are in that locker room every single week. So, of course, I want to face the Keith Lees. Of course I want to be, you know, let's get the Hurt Business back together. There's so many guys that I would love that I really want to focus on as well.

So I understand that. I understand the backlash as well with people seeing older guys coming back. But, you know, let me just have this one, just one night. I'm just asking for one night, one match, and then we can all move on.'s it uh two last quick things um when i spoke to roman reigns before summer slam i asked him like who do you think could be the next guy the next face of the company

the next champion he mentioned you uh now you are a champion and so i'm wondering who do you think can be a guy you know someone who's backstage um male or female who hasn't gotten that shot yet who's working their way up who maybe doesn't get the love and attention that they deserve that you think one day can hold either the the male or female title uh man let me say uh first of all i will definitely beat the drum for my man woods i think woods is uh definitely wildly underrated uh i know he's been claiming for King of the Ring. So let's get him going in that King of the Ring for sure. I look at someone like Liv who has been, I see how hard she works.

I just see a glimpse of how hard she has worked and how beloved she is by so many. And she's someone that I think is ready and is worthy of being women's champion. We'll see whether she's on SmackDown or Raw once the draft happens, but Liv for sure. Man, there are so many others as well, but I'll focus on Woodsy. Definitely is king of the ring, and I wanna see him as WWE champion one day too. But definitely, let's get some love for Liv. I think she's been working incredibly hard.

And another guy too, who i think is the man is gable i think gable is incredible and uh you know i don't know exactly what his ceiling is but i think he's a guy that you just let loose let him continue to put on banger after banger let him go and he'll show you what his ceiling is now to be clear you're referring to chad gable not chad gable oh yeah you're right to Chad Gable, not Chad Gable. Oh yeah, you're right. There are multiple Gables now as well. And Gable Steveson, he's another guy. Obviously he has to get some training under his belt as well. And I didn't know if he'd go the MMA route or if he'd go the pro wrestling route, but he is signed with WWE. So you're right. Now I have to clarify which Gable I'm talking about. It seems like his ceiling is very high. And I love

that he signed that NIL deal with WWE as he, you know, tries to defend his national championship. Lastly, just curious to tie the whole bow together. If you could tell people, I know you referenced meditation, how do you work on your mental health? How do you keep at it? You know, like, you obviously have been through a lot, and you're doing really well right now, it seems, but it's a constant battle, right? What is the daily process like for you? Or what are certain things that you like to do on a weekly basis, maybe not every day, but on a weekly basis to try to be as mentally healthy as possible? I appreciate you asking that. So for me, in college, it was definitely therapy. I was very fortunate to have an incredible therapist.

Right now, it's daily meditation is something was very fortunate to have an incredible therapist. Right now, it's daily meditation is something that I really focus on. And one of the things that I love with meditation, I use Headspace. It's just kind of the first app that I came across that I really loved. And I have a friend, Kat Simpson,

who suggested it years ago, and I'm so grateful to her because it's something that's helped me immensely. But one of the things I love with meditation is even though I might only do it for 10 to 15 minutes in the morning, I am able to use those tools throughout the day. I realize if I'm starting to feel more anxious, I can always come back to the breath. And as simple as it sounds, just knowing you can take a deep breath and exhale and focus on your breath is oftentimes so helpful at just allowing you to let go and that's one of the biggest things with meditation is it's not necessarily about learning

a bunch of things or having a bunch of mantras to repeat it's really just helped me let go and to realize i can have thoughts that aren't always the most positive but i can let them go you know they're i am not my thinking. I am not my thoughts. And that's really refreshing to know, hey, in the midst of your stress, of your anxiety, of whatever it is, you can just let things go. And so the lessons I've learned from meditation with being more mindful, and from that, I become more grateful. So meditation has allowed me to be grateful for simple things. Even sometimes I'll just go on a three minute walk in my neighborhood and I find myself so much more grateful for a

beautiful day or for the fact that, you know, I'm able to, I'm healthy. I can use my limbs. They all work. And I'm grateful for this moment. I'm grateful for my life. So meditation has just been a massive tool. And for anyone who hasn't started meditating and thinks it might be helpful, please give it a shot. It's something that I didn't notice instantaneous results from. It doesn't change your life overnight. work every single day has allowed me to very slowly grow over time. So just meditation and mindfulness is really, for me, I know has helped a lot. I know there are things that, you know, worth looking into, like shadow work and journaling. There's a lot of really cool stuff out there. And I think for me, too, when I first started on this journey, I kept hearing, you have to do the work. And it feels daunting, like, oh, I got to do all this work. But for me, it really is.

It's good work. It's positive work. It's work that's fulfilling. And I'm so glad that I've found this path. You're the man, Biggie. Congratulations on winning the belt, on your success success on being able to speak about this on conquering it on continuing to fight it uh really you are an inspiration so i can't thank you enough for the time and for being so open and again i want to urge everyone to go back to that september

13th new day feel the power podcast it's an amazing conversation between you um xavier woods kofi kingston you even had a special, a doctor on hand to speak about it. So really, really great stuff. What you guys are doing is tremendous. So good luck. Hope to see you at the pay-per-view on Sunday night. And again, always great to catch up with you. I really appreciate it.

I appreciate it, man. And as you know, I'm a fan of your work. So, you know, I'm playing it cool inside, but I'm very thankful that you're having me on. So thank you. Thank you. Again, thank you very much to Big E and WWE for that interview. I really enjoyed it.

I hope you did as well. Not the easiest stuff to talk about, but it's great to see a man who's enjoying so much success talk about this. And again, I really urge you to check out that podcast. I didn't want him to go so deeply into the stuff that he went through as a 19 and 20 year old, because I didn't think that that was fair to him. This isn't just something you can just talk to someone about. It's, um, it's something that is very heavy and it could be a burden.

And I didn't feel like it was fair to take him back to that place and to go through those details. Um, and so I hope you don't feel like you were removed from the conversation if you hadn't heard the podcast, but I think it might fill in some of the blanks if you do go and check it out. If you don't want to, that's cool as well. But I did want to give that recommendation.

Again, we'll be doing this every week with interesting people from around the world. It doesn't matter if they're in entertainment or not, in sports or not, in combat or not. It's just going to be interesting conversations like this one. I hope you enjoy it. And I hope you will find it to be a nice compliment to the other stuff that I've been doing,

whether it's with the MMA hour, whether it's with the ringer, BT sport sub stack, there's a lot going on. And I'll even have a fun announcement for you guys tomorrow, Friday morning as well. So stay tuned for that for now, though, we're out of time. Thank you very much for listening.

Thanks to our producers. I appreciate them very much. And again, most importantly, thanks to all of you for subscribing, for your support, for your interest in all the stuff that I'm doing. And of course, thank you very much to Big E for the time. Have a great day. I'll talk to you soon.