The Ariel Helwani Show - Cody Rhodes, Ian Machado Garry, Plus: Eddie Hearn, Ben Whittaker, Luke Littler all in studio, news & notes

Episode Date: June 24, 2026

Ariel Helwani kicks off the show by discussing Dustin Poirier’s arrest, before being joined in-studio by Eddie Hearn. Hearn breaks news of Ian Machado Garry signing with Matchroom Talent Agency, then talks about the latest regarding Tom Aspinall, including recent communication with the UFC, Michael Bisping’s comments about Aspinall, rumors of Zuffa Boxing signing top talent, drama surrounding the promotion of a potential Tyson Fury vs. Anthony Joshua fight, Jaron ‘Boots’ Ennis vs. Xander Zayas, Katie Taylor’s Croke Park fight, and more (09:40). Ben Whittaker stops by the studio ahead of his American debut, previewing the bout against Richard Rivera, discussing his deal with Matchroom, coach Andy Lee’s impact on his fighting style, training alongside Joseph Parker, Hamzah Sheeraz, and Paddy Donovan, his respect for MMA fighters, English football, and more (1:16:27). Cody Rhodes returns to catch up with Ariel, diving into who he considers the face of WWE, stories from his early career, his feelings on WWE Unreal, his relationship with AJ Styles, WrestleMania 42, the idea of taking a break, potentially becoming a booker in the future, whether he has unfinished business with The Rock, and more (1:46:05). PDC world darts champion Luke Littler is in-studio to preview the US Darts Masters, reflect on his incredible success, and throw a few darts (2:28:20). Ian Machado Garry pops in to talk about his signing with Matchroom Talent Agency, how the deal impacts his current management situation and relationship with the UFC (2:56:44). The Boys in the Back and Petesy Carroll jump back in to cover news and notes and answer your Super Chats (3:36:04).

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Err- On this Wednesday, June 24, 2000. And 26, hello again, everyone. I sure hope you're doing well if you are in or from the Great Province of Quebec. Happy St. Jean-Baptiste Day to one and all. Today's Quebec's birthday, it's a very important day for the Great Province of Quebec. My home province. It's a celebratory day.

No work. Everyone's in a great mood. It's always a fun time. 24th of June heading into the 1st of July, Canada Day. So what a time to be alive. Most importantly for me, though. Most importantly for me, though, today is my dear mother's birthday. My biggest fan, without her, I wouldn't be alive.

She saved my life. I've told this story before. She was in bed for six or seven months. Doctors told her if she went out and about. She would lose me and what can you say about that? The ultimate sacrifice has had my back, has supported me, has loved me unconditionally, has always, always, always been there for me, has allowed me to chase my dreams, has never allowed me to quit, has been my best friend, has been my confidant, my, my therapist.

I always say I get my work ethic for my dad, I get my interviewing skills from my mom. She's the absolute best. And so to my mother, happy birthday. I love you so very much. And I hope it's a great day. I wish we could be there with you in Montreal, but you know that we are there in spirit. And we'll celebrate you very, very soon.

Wow, thank you. Thank you, Frank. That's so kind of you. I'm going to tell her that you were behind that. That was impromptu right there. We did not plan for that. But that's why you are the best in the business. You were ready to go.

And yes, it's always important to celebrate your parents. We should not forget the things that they've done for us and I love my mother more than anything in the world. So, um, Mama, I love you very much and happy birthday. Uh, we have a great,

great show plan for everyone. Uh, we have, I mean, we've been on a heater, I think, as of late. It's been a,

a pretty amazing couple weeks for the program. It's going to continue to be a pretty amazing couple of weeks for the program. Uh, on July 10th. We're a little bit late with like the details, but we're going to have them pretty, pretty soon. I can tell you that.

After the ceremonial weigh-ins at 7.30 p.m. Eastern time, we are going to, no, Pacific, 10.30 p.m. Pacific time. 7.30 p.m. in Las Vegas. We're going to be doing a live show, intimate setting. Special guest, Demetrius Johnson, right after the ceremonial way-ins, right before, obviously, the night before the Connor McGregor versus Max Holloway two fight. We'll be in Vegas. As of that Wednesday, we're staying for the following Monday show. We did this last year. We don't do it often. But this card feels like it deserves that kind of coverage. And I'm very excited to be there with the whole team. It's going to be a great time. We're going to that sushi spot. Thank you, Frank. Hopefully, maybe time permitting a little summer league. Maybe.

Who's to check? We're there to work. We're not there to Kibbitts. But I am looking forward to it very much. The whole gang will be out there. And if you want to hang with us, July 10th, location, TBA. Time, 730. More details to come.

We'll leave it at that, but I can tell you those details. So do plan for all of that if you are going to be in town on the 10th of July in town. Of course, I'm referring to Las Vegas. On today's program, we're going to be joined in studio by three, count them three guests. Back into the show 330, the phenom, the one and only the nuke. Luke Littler is going to be joining us. The greatest darts player in the game today. some might say future goat.

For now they say it's Phil Taylor. He's had a very interesting, very emotional, very tumultuous 2026 campaign. And so I'm really looking forward to talking to him. He's here for the American series that they're doing at the InfoSys Theater, which is right next door to Madison Square Garden. It used to be known as the Hulu Theater, as the felt form. It's the U.S. Dart Masters, June 25th and June 26. and that is taking place at the theater next door. He's going to be there.

Luke Humphreys is going to be there. A whole bunch of big names. Gerwin Price, Stephen Bunting, love these guys. And so it's been a while since we spoke about the darts here on the program. But Luke the nuke in studio at 3.30. Prior to that, Cody Rhodes, QB1. Unbelievable. He's going to be joining us on the program.

Not in studio, but joining us from Sheffield, England, backstage live event tonight in England. He'll be joining us from the venue. We haven't talked to Cody Rhodes since before WrestleMania 40. That's how long it's been. He was in our old studio, M.A. Hour studio, huge.

So stay tuned for that. Cody Rhodes joining us. Prior to that, Ben Whitaker going to be joining us. The surgeon. He's making his American debut on the Boots Zaya's car this Saturday, Barkley Center, Brooklyn, New York.

We've had Geron Boot Tennis. in studio. We've had Zander Zay is in studio this week. We've had Emiliano Vargas in studio. Now we get Ben Whitaker, who we've long been a fan of joining us in studio just days prior to his American debut. And in a matter of moments, we are going to be joined by the head honcho of matchroom boxing, the one and only Eddie Hearn. What a quartet that is. What a quartet that is. So I am pumped. I am absolutely pumped. Three in studio guests.

One joining us from a live event. It's been a minute since we spoke to Cody, since we spoke to Luke. Having been in studio for the first time is a huge deal. And of course, there are a few things to talk about with one Eddie Hearn. And so I cannot wait for that.

I did want to get into before we get rolling here. And Eddie's going to be joining us in studio in a matter of moments. Obviously, a lot of you have seen the news regarding Dustin Porre. Obviously, a lot of you have seen, you know, the footage. I don't want to play that. And look, I will acknowledge this. And you can say whatever you want about me and about relationships and

my show and the way I go about doing things. But for me, Dustin Porre is someone that I care a lot about. And maybe that's a mistake. Maybe that's something that I should not be, you know, saying. But this is a guy who, when we needed a guest for our live show, he was there. He came to us. He did, you know, he did us a solid from Newark. And so I'm just going to say that I wish him the best. He did post something on his IG story. I'm at the point where I need some help. Walking away from fighting hasn't been easy on me,

and alcohol isn't the answer. It has ruined my father's life, and I will not allow it to ruin mine. My family deserves me at 100%. I'm trying to do everything I can to get my mind right and take the right steps. And so I'm just going to wish Dustin the best. You want to find the footage.

You want to kick him while he's down. You're entitled. You're entitled. He's a public person. he made a mistake, he made a pretty big mistake, and he's going to have to deal with those consequences. On this here program, I want to show him love, I want to show him support, and he's a retired fighter. So, you know, it's a tricky one. It's absolutely a tricky one. You do this job long enough, you develop relationships, and I acknowledge that, and I know that's not traditional.

And I know that our job isn't traditional, and our relationships aren't traditional, and there's no right answer to any of this. It's not a black and white blanket statement, if you will. But that's how I'm going about it with Dustin Porre. And I want to wish him the absolute best and hope that he is able to find some peace. Hopefully he's able to get on the right path, has the right type of support around him, have the right type of people around him to, you know, to guide him. And I really do hope that he's able to figure things out and find some peace because he's been very open about the fact that he, you know, has been struggling. And I really truly wish nothing but the best for him.

I know he's a good person. And I know that was an ugly scene, and there's no excuses for the things that were done and said in that video. I'm not doing that. I just want to send my best to someone that we care about and who has been nothing but great to us. All right.

That out of the way, we have a lot to get to on today's program. I am so excited about today's show. Oh, by the way, I do want to say that today's show is brought you by our good friends over at Cal She. They are the largest prediction market in the United States. Here's what makes Cal She different. You are not playing against the house. Cali is peer-to-peer trading.

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Use code Helwani to get $10 when you trade $10. Cali, that's K-A-L-S-H-I trade. What's next? Perfect Support them because they support us Without further ado We have so much to talk to Eddie Hearn about Let's bring in the big man

Who is here Once again joining us in studio Yes there he is Eddie Hearn How are you sir Fantastic How are you? It's great to see you

And you mate Oh it's so nice to have you Do an interview I know you're Don't want to do a lot of interviews These days I actually had a week of no interview I know people

People are starting to wonder I'm like You're in hiding I did one yesterday And people go Oh he's back He's crawled out from under his rock. It's like, I just thought one week, just chill, but, you know.

They like hearing from you. They do, apparently. Do you mind putting the microphone to your mouth so we can hear you completely? I'm new to this game. Sorry. Yeah. It's, uh, man, it's just a small operation here. You know, we're working through the kinks. There we go. Uh, do you ever worry about oversaturation? Yeah, I mean, to be honest, in the past, like, I've always been told, like, you know, don't do too much, but it's kind of like, it's a reactive industry. So, if someone says something like frank warren was always the the the kind of genius at that so i would come out and do an interview and he would phone the media and say right i need you here now i need to do something and it's but then you you find yourself kind of going backwards and forwards and

it's i think people can get a little bit bored of that as well right so it's like you know and i've wanted to especially with the dana stuff i've wanted to really embrace that because it's been so big for me in america so i'm kind of wanting to do more and more but just to a week, just chill and then we go again. I've heard you say this. It's so big for you. You're loving it. You don't want it to go away. You don't want to make peace. This is amazing. But how do you quantify that? How do you know, other than people coming up to you on the street as you say right here?

That's really the response. I mean, you know, obviously the numbers, but really the kind of interaction with the actual audience. I mean, there's nothing more quantifiable than that. You know, you can look at stats and you can look at numbers. But when you're walking down the street of New York and someone screams out at the car, Eddie Hearn, and you know, just give it to Dana. And it's like, okay, like you just, you feel it, you know. And the war and peace stuff, like I just said, Turkey's a friend, he's a partner, we don't always get on.

And he wants to get me and Dana together and Nick Kahn and try and sort of navigate. But at the same time, this is also the king of fuckery in Turkey, Lashai. He loves it. And I've never felt so alive in what I'm doing than right now, because this is my game. And, you know, the 15 years with Frank Warren was arduous, and it was, it wasn't easy at times. But, quite, I wouldn't change it for the world.

And now that we've become friends, which is nice, I have missed it a little bit. You know, I live for that rivalry and I live for that competition. And I feel like this is the biggest of the biggest in terms of that competition. Not the best of the competition, but certainly the biggest in the most power. What do you mean by not the best? I just don't think, you know, Frank Warren is a Hall of Fame promoter. He's a maverick. He's like, he knows the game inside out.

He'll work to his bone. Like, you know, he won't stop for 20. This is the different kind of people. They don't really understand the business and the game like they do in MMA, for example. So I don't know it's not just Dana, right? Well, Dana doesn't know any. I mean, he knows nothing about boxing. But like, like, Nick Kahn, I think does know about boxing.

And all these guys, like, you know, people said to me yesterday, oh, what did you think at a White House? You know, was it good? I said, mate, it was unbelievable. As a promoter, that event was incredible. And I give, like, I'm pretty straight. Like, if it's good, and the boxing product's not. And it's July next week, like, it's, you know, it's been seven months. And it's, obviously, that's my competitor.

So we've gone from Dana, I mean, never being up my ass, but telling me I'm a incredible promoter. I'm the only one in boxing that really does it right to this guy has got no vision. And they don't know what they're doing. And, you know, and it's just like. It's very political because it's like the king has no clothes. You know, it's kind of like, look at what we're doing in boxing right now, but no one actually breaks down what they are doing, which is basically just overpaying fighters and giving them easy fights

and putting on poor product. But they are powerful people, and Nick and those kind of people, they're going to be players. But at a moment, I don't feel like there's this product out there that's superseding what we're doing. You know, we're 19 shows in this year through the halfway stage. we've got another huge fight a year. I thought you only did six shows.

Apparently. No, or three or four, which again, but no one really questions them. You know, you go to these interviewers, your buddies,

and they're sitting there taking it. Come on. Yeah. How do you feel about that? I mean, I say to it. The guys who asked for interviews every week. Yeah,

but also, I also get the game. But look, you're a maverick, right? You decided to be that guy. It's not even have to be a maverick to check someone. No, but it costs you the access.

It didn't cost me anything. No, but it, No, but not in terms of your, you know, regretful about it, or it's affected your business or your position. But ultimately, I don't know the exact history. But if you question them, you will get removed. You will get banned.

What you don't see behind the scenes is that before these interviews, those guys, and I don't want to put those guys in it because they all tell me, like, they have to approve the questions, and they have to receive the interview first before it's allowed to go out. Serious. Yeah.

And I feel like that's a handicap to me. Because I just sit down with IFL and Coleman do an hour off the bat. Most of the time I'm just spouting absolute random stuff, probably stuff that I shouldn't even be saying. But it's raw and it's real and it's from the heart and it's the truth. It's never, you know, it's the same now with some of these fighters that have signed with them. You're not allowed to do interviews with them unless you let them know to questions that are going to be asked. For me, that's bullshit.

But again, like this is what you're dealing with. You're dealing with control. freaks, you're dreaming with people who like to, you know, have complete domination over the narrative and what they're doing. So, okay, I want to, I actually wasn't planning on getting into all of this off the bat. I wanted to talk about Saturday night, but they're telling me my ear right now, there was a big announcement that was just made seconds ago, literally as you're sitting here, regarding Ian Machado Gary, the number one contender in the Walter Weight Division. So can you please tell me what this news is? Yeah, the news is huge. And the

news is that we have signed Ian Machado Gary to the Matrim Talent Agency to join Tom Aspinall as our second UFC fighter. We've taken our time to be honest with you because what we've done with Tom has been quite incredible

and we'll come back to that because this is Ian's moment and I want to talk about our special he is and through that signing we had like over a dozen UFC guys or MMA guys come to us and say how do we be a part of this? we get representation with you guys.

And we're not looking to be, we're a sports agency. We're looking to represent high profile, global stars across sport and entertainment, not MMA. But of all the approaches that we had, I don't even think Ian was an approach. I think I actually reached out to him

because I know his team and everybody around it. And I looked at this guy for a long time and I love his spirit. I love his personality. He's a good, tall, good-looking guy who speaks incredibly well. and I've long felt that this is a guy that I actually think has the

attributes to be a superstar as I learn more about the sport how good he is we met we had a lot of deep conversations and talked a lot of strategy and then of course he finally secured the big fight and particularly with our work in Ireland

and understanding the country and the audience and how passionate they are for their own I just felt like this was the guy that we wanted to bring to the team and I could wouldn't be happier because, you know, again, these guys, they get it. Ian Gary has the potential to be a crossover star.

Now, he's got to do the business in the octagon. And our relationship is not, it's different to Tom's deal. You know, now we're a lot more strategic with Tom on the UFC side now. With Ian, this is, this is commercial, this is about building his brand, you know, driving revenue to him with partners. And again, we'll come on what we've done with Tom is incredible. But, you know, this is purely to work on his profile. profile, his commercial brand, you know, and we're really, really pleased to do it because I wasn't

sure how many more UFC fighters I wanted to add to the roster. And this was the guy that I really wanted. And I believe he wins in August. And we're also back in that fact that if and when he wins in August, he becomes a superstar. Yes. Not just of the sport, but of sport. And I really, really am extremely proud to be representing. Okay, there's a lot to digest there, and I was seeing from the corner of my eye, we were playing a clip of you guys together. So when did this all happen?

When did you shoot that? Yeah, this has been going on for quite some time. When did you sign them? A good few weeks ago. Okay. And obviously, we wanted to wait for the right time and obviously make sure that his fight was locked in and we knew what...

Were you afraid that if you announced before the fight was announced, that they would take the fight away from him? Not necessarily. No, I mean, this is, again, like, from a UFC perspective, Ian knows where he is, right? He always wants to, you know, make sure that he gets what he deserves. But this isn't about having a conversation.

We won't be having dealings with the UFC regarding Ian Gary. That contract is set, he's got his fight coming up. It's very different to the Tom scenario. So, no, I didn't feel like this was a sort of confrontational sign-in with, you know, this isn't about, I know people like to run the narrative of, oh, you know, the aspirinal signing was just Eddie. that this has got nothing to do with it. I look at Ian Gary as a potential superstar of sport

and I'm building a representation agency of representing great athletes with high commercial power and demand and Ian sits within that mold. So yeah, this isn't about us having to have meetings with UFC. He's got his own team of people

that do that side. He's also with Vayner. Correct. There has management, they're still there. Absolutely. So you're just doing what? Marketing? Marketing, commercial, sponsors.

his brand. I mean, all this stuff that we've been doing so well with Tom and having huge success. And, you know,

and again, when that fight got locked in, that's the fight. That's the breakout fight. Right? I mean, I'm still, I'm getting much more educated

now across MMA, but I'm still a casual. Right. But I know the size of that fight. Yeah. And I, I'm just delighted to be on his team because when he sits down,

he talks about that fight, I look at him in the eye and see a man possessed. And I'm like, I know the mountain, he has to climb. I know the fact that he, He's an underdog going into the fight in some people's eyes.

But I think he's going to win. And I think when he wins, and you talk about, you know, all these conversations we've been having, Croke Park, you know, the power of the Irish people. You know, Ian wants that. Ian wants to fight at Croke Park. He wants to be that superstar, not just globally, but particularly from Ireland as well. And he's got this incredible nation behind him. And I just feel like, who's driving the profile of these guys? Tom, I mean, I can't believe the success we've had with Tom, again, so it will come on to.

But like, who is behind driving these, you know, these guys aren't even getting invited to the UFC event at the White House. Yet you've got a load of random fighters sitting there, people who are shoved in your face. Who's driving the value of these guys? Because they're all incredible people. They're all incredible athletes. They've all got unbelievable stories. You know, and when you sit down with Ian Gary and you listen to him and he's so infectious and you're, you're, I'm looking at him thinking, like, you're a big star.

You can be a superstar, especially if you get it right in the octagon in August. So, yeah, it's a big move for us. And we really took our time. And we deliberated around a load of other fighters that we might move forward with. And Ian was the one that we really identified as the guide. It's just got that sparkle, that twinkle in his eye. Will you attend the event? Yeah, I don't want to cause, you know, I'd love to.

And I'd love to see Ian, you know, accomplish a dream. and, you know, be a big part of that defining moment. But at the same time, like, you know, again, there are two different situations. There's no beef. Ian's got his fight locked in with a UFC. Again, we'll be driving a lot around his fight and, you know, the profile and the build and all that kind of stuff.

And at our aim, I think when the dust settles, I actually think we're going to add a huge amount of value to the UFC. Like, if you think about what has happened to Tom's profile. Okay, so tell me, tell me, what has true? changed? So what has changed is, in my opinion, I mean, firstly, he's making more money now outside of the octagon that he's making in it commercially, right? He's driven over seven figures already. Already in terms of commercial. His own deal? His own deal. His own deal. He's cloud bet deal. Just another one that's about to be announced literally today. Okay. Appearance. I mean,

his podcast, like this guy's social numbers and digital numbers across his podcast, you know Charlie and the team. They're really smart people. Yeah. I mean, they're doing huge. I mean, they're doing huge numbers. But right now, amongst all the commotion and all that noise, you've got a guy that is one of the most talked about guys on the UFC roster in Tom Aspinall. Fact, right? So, yeah, important that we're dry, but also what we're doing in turn is, right, you have a fight in front of you with Cyril Garne against Tom Aspinall that, correct me if I'm wrong, is one of the biggest fights that can get made in the UFC. And Tom Aspinall right now sits as one of the biggest stars in the UFC.

So I think we're actually driving a huge amount of value, not just for Tom, but also for the UFC. Because they've got a monster fight on their hand with that, if it can get made. So, we had a fighter on the show yesterday named Josh Hoket. He's the one who made the comm.

I saw, yeah. And he insinuated that his next fight may be for a belt. And that led to some of us thinking, are they going to strip Tom? Because the only way he's fighting for a belt is if he's fighting Sorrel Gan. They're not going to not give Surreal Gan Tom.

And so Tom is like the question mark here. Have you heard anything? No. I mean, we've reached out to the UFC. And we've told them Andy Aspen always got that relationship with Hunter and those guys, Tom's ready. What is their response to that? I mean, there's going to be a conversation coming up about date and, you know, numbers. You don't think he'll be stripped.

I mean, it's going to be. I don't think we're not coming in there to cause a big argument. what we're coming in to say is is that there is a huge amount of money in the fight between Cyril Garn and Tom Aspinall. Now, contractually, and the contract is a little bit out of date

because it talks about pay-per-view and that obviously doesn't exist anymore, but contractually, the numbers are, you know, I don't want to, we'll veer on the peace side, but just completely unfair in terms of the value that Tom Aspinall brings into that fight.

Okay, so what we're asking for is just to be respected and we'll give it everything. Tom will go in there in a very dangerous fight against a guy who, you know, as I learn more about the UFC and MMA, he's clearly a dangerous fighter in the respect of his ability but also his ability to foul as well. And Tom will be put in his legacy, his health, everything on the line in that fight to give you a fight that will be one of the biggest of the year and will generate a huge amount of money for your organisation. Just respect the fighter.

That's it. And we're not difficult to work with. Tom's really not difficult to work with. But that has to be acknowledged in my opinion. And, you know, when I watch the Pereira fight with Gain, I'm like, I'm just kind of baffled with, you know, I mean, you know you're going to go into a fight and it's going to be very dangerous.

And there's a very big chance that some think, It's going to happen, like he's going to try and pop your eyes out your socket or he's going to hammer you on the back of the head. And that's okay. That's the ref's job. But it's that kind of fight. So just understand that if it's that kind of fight and there's a huge amount of money in the pot, let's respect the efforts of Tom Aspinall from his career and what he's done lately in terms of driving his value and his profile. And let's have a great fight.

Let's, you know, and we'll have to see how that plays out. Connor McGregor told us last week he had two fights left on his deal, but they restructed. his contract because there's no pay-per-view anymore. Will you try to restructure the contract because there's no pay-per-view anymore? Yeah, again, like, you know, there's a big team of us behind Tom's management. And I think when we started with Tom. And with Tom, are you more managerial as well? Yes, yes.

I mean, we are across his UFC contract. We're across with our legal team. It is. And it wasn't intentionally going to go that way. But as we've been working closer with Tom and Charlie and Andy, it's been unbelievable. Like we've just, we're, we're such a great tight-knit team who are having a lot of success across the board that they've wanted us to have our eyes across it. And they want that kind of structure. So, yeah, we, we appreciate that the contracts aren't necessarily, you know, certainly need to be reviewed in terms of the pay-per-view structure of the deal because it doesn't exist anymore.

But again, it's not, you know, this is not, we want X, we want X, we want X. this is just guys like we can do a really big fight here like Aspinall goes it's a great fight but you can't expect a guy to you know I mean that I'm actually I'm not happy what happened with the Pereira fight but I feel like the reaction kind of gives a little bit more sympathy to Tom of what he went through given the fact that people are kind of realizing actually what happened you know and when I met Tom Aspinall actually I've said it to you before I met actually I think you know this as well I met a guy at a guy that. it was a little bit, it was definitely suppressed.

And he was definitely kind of made to feel like he didn't really have a lot of value. And he's a moaner and he's a sulker and get back in your box and do as you're told. Now I see a guy that's coming out to these public events with his chest up, you know, and feeling like he wants to go back in there, feeling like he's a star, and making money and having his profile driven and making him feel good about himself. And that's where he sits. Now he's in a great place. So, you know, I'm not going to go.

go on about it, but it's just, you know, and again, our demands aren't going to be insane. They're just going to mean that we can move forward and, and create a great fight for, for MMA. To the best your knowledge, he's medically cleared. He can fight. He's ready. He's ready to resume training and ready to fight. He told me he would go to Paris and fight him in September.

He doesn't care. Wow. Honestly, like, you know, this is a dangerous fight and people, some people still refuse to acknowledge that he had four eye operations and was told quite clearly could have lost his vision, right, his sight. And like, you've got to go back in there, do the same kind of thing, could happen again, right? And this time it could be worse. And, or it could be a back of the head blow, or it could be all these other fails that you see. But you know it's going to be that kind of fight. It's not going to be easy. So if you're going to put yourself through that, if you're going to

risk, not just your legacy, but your health and beyond, I want to get too negative about things, you've got to be respected. And, you know, as much as we want to, or they want to sort of ignore it or separate the two, I mean, I saw the sort of Sean O'Malley stuff yesterday. I mean, you've literally got guys that are making more for an eight-round fight against a guy that I would beat than Sean O'Malley fighting at the White House. Yeah, he said 600K. said that on the 4thend podcast. You've literally got, you know,

obviously Johnny Fisher and like, it just doesn't make sense. And those guys need to stop being suppressed. Like, they're, I'm just shocked by the kind of mindset of, oh, well, there's nothing else we can do really. You know, it is what it is. And we just, you know,

if we don't do it, we're just going to get benched. So we've got to do it really. You know, I can't, I can't, I can't, understand that like guys like Sean O'Malley the guy's a superstar the guy's a phenomenal fighter but he's just he's just been made to feel like I saw his interview well yeah you know got a bit more for that one and I've got a good one but because I'm in the position I'm in now that's really all you can get it's like what what and there's a guy fighting on an undercard and like the fourth

fighting an eight round boxing fight that's making more than you you've just fought a white house and you've on an incredible performance so yeah look I mean that's another game. But what matters to me is representing the people that we've signed, and that is Tom Aspinall and Ian Garry. Are you done with MMA fighters after these two? Not necessarily. At least for now?

It would have to be, it's got to be someone, like I can't, you know, people felt that when we signed Tom Aspinall, people felt, oh, yeah, yeah, what are you going to do with him commercially? This is what we do. You know, he will tell you. He'll tell you how much money with my, like he's absolutely flying, right? And there's a whole new world out there for UFC fighters, but they feel like they don't have the value.

You know, and I look at Ian Gary, I can put Ian Gary in front of a brand in front of a camera, across a podcast series, and the kids are star. What do you say to people, there's people like Michael Bisping out there who say that you're just using Tom as a pawn? These are people that are on the payroll, right?

These are people that have been suppressed themselves, and these are people, that don't have any backbone about them, right? Michael Bisping should be ashamed of what is being proposed to Tom Aspinall to be in a fight like Cyril Game with that amount of money that is in the pot. He is a fighter. He should stand up for what's right for fighters. So what are you saying, Bisping?

Do as you're told. Shut up. Take your money. That's all you're worth. There's 60 million in the pot, right? Be quiet. you're getting 3% of the pot. You're the fighter.

You're putting your health on the line. You're the talent. You're the reason this organisation is what it is. And Bissing should be ashamed of himself for that. And I keep saying to Bisping, sit down with me, live, and we'll have a debate about it. And he'll never do it because he knows he can't say certain things. But he's a fighter. He should be standing up for the best interests of the fighter, not allowing fighters to be suppressed

and bullied and told what to do or what to accept. The whole thing, and I see it more and more now across the UFC, across the White House. Why aren't these guys there? The reason they're not there is because they don't want them to feel like they're a star. They don't want them to feel like they have value. Yet these guys, it's all about, you know,

the likes of Sean O'Malley. He could walk around in New York's, he'd get mobbed. They're paying fighters $10, $15 million for fights. they could walk around New York City, no one would even know who they are. So you need to grow some balls and you need to start fighting for what's right for you and your career and making sure you're respected for putting your life and your health on the line when you step through the octagon because you are the value, you are the talent, you are the star. Even Connor McGregor. Like they've kind of done it like, I listen to him. I love Connor, but it's like, Connor, you are.

You know, you're not, you're not the UFC, but for a long time. Like, you are. Do you realize how powerful you are in this situation? Well, you know, I got a good deal. Was it the right deal? Well, we met in the middle. I'm like, I can't believe what I'm listening to, Connemagra. I'm like, wait. Like, you're not the kind of guy who say, well, we met in the middle.

You're the guy sitting there and go, I took them to the bank, baby, because I know what I am. I'm Connemagreger. But then you've got other guys saying I made 400, 500, 600, 600, it's like. So, yeah, it baffles me. And like, Bisping and these guys, I don't really follow a lot of stuff. But sometimes people send it to me and stuff like that. And it's like, it is what it is with Bisping.

I like the guy. Great fire, great athlete. Have you asked them privately to debate you? I sent him a DM, yeah. I said, yeah, I know. I think I put it on my story or so. I said, let's debate. He respond.

No, he can't. You think Bisping's going to sit there with me and have a debate about the UFC and the pay structure. This is a dangerous game. But please, please be my guest. But he should, like, he knows what's fair and what's not. So, like, you know, and, and, and, Again, different people, Ian Gary, no problem. Fight organized, UFC guys dealing with his...

Is he happy with his contract? I think every fighter wants to earn feels like they have, you know, they have greater value than their contract suggests. He said something very telling to me when we had him on Monday's show and I said, were you ever worried that you weren't going to get the fight because it was taking so long? And he said, and it kind of went over everyone's head. He said, I don't trust the UFC to do the right thing all the time.

you don't often hear people say that and so yes i was worried he said and so that made me think is he annoyed is he unhappy is he feeling like he's not being treated as the man because he is the but at the same time ian gary is about legacy is about championships and he's about proving he's the best and i think that money is important to all these guys but ian gary really wants that opportunity and now he has it so i think that he also feels like he's If he gets that victory, he will be in a great position. You know, I mean, whenever we sign a UFC guy, everyone always presumes that they're moving to boxing. Right?

And actually, that's actually not the cut. I mean, Ian's a bit different. He's had 300 amateur boxing fights. You know, he's telling me that he could knock this guy out, that guy out. And who knows in the future? I think Ian is more geared to that world. Tom not. And that's never been part of the discussions, you know.

But I think Ian is chasing greatness. And that's one of the things that attracted me to him in our conversations. It wasn't how much money are you going to get me? It was like, I want to be the best. I want to prove that I am the best in this sport. And he's got that opportunity to do it in August. So, you know, we gamble with him that we believe he's going to do it. And when he does, he will be with his character, his personality,

he's look, everything around it. He'll be a huge, huge player in this game. A few weeks ago when you threw out the offer, if you will, like, hey, release Tom Aspinall, I'll pay him five times, you said, and we'll have this in writing, and I'll drop the Conor Ben stuff. Dana's response was, all right, release Bam Rodriguez. Bam's very happy. Bam's making a load of money.

Bam's receiving well over market value. Bam doesn't want to leave. If Bam wanted to leave, and I was underpaying him, I would say he's got a very strong argument. My response to that was, he was talking about Conner Ben. And he was saying, like, you should be happy for Conabin. Whenever a guy gets a chance to earn five times more, 10 times more, you should be happy for him. So all I said was, okay, be happy for Tom Aspinall.

Release him. Cut we're not releasing Tom Aspinil. Well, you're not happy for him, are you? So what, you're going to deny him the opportunity to make money that will secure him financially for life and his family and his children. You're going to deny him that opportunity by not being fair? You can't have it both ways. I mean, there's so much contradiction goes on. Like in the statements, in everything.

So that was my response to that, is if you feel like fighters deserve to get great opportunities and to earn as much money as they can in a very limited time frame, let them do it. And obviously, they didn't respond to this. No, I mean, yeah. What do you make of his demeanor when he's up there and he's talking about, like, it's always the same thing,

judge us at the end of the year. And does he know, call him up? But when you hear this. But no one asked the question. You know, when you talk about like, judge us on our body of work this year. Okay. We're halfway through.

Right. If you're a Dana White fan or not, and I have been in it. I mean, how many times have I sat here and told you what an amazing job these guys do, right? The boxing product has been awful that they've put together. Born Miss show.

Did you like it? But what's the difference between that and a Ben Shalom show? Nothing. It was better than the, the apex. It was a step up. Well done. You know, I mean, like you, but, but listen, they've gone from the apex.

Now they're in, you know, on, on Sunday, I can't give them a plug here, but on Sunday coming up, they've got the Langer and, no, no, that's another one, right? Belanga and Hitchens. If you look at the seat map for that, they have sold, I'm talking a handful of tickets. So on a Sunday night, the card's awful. It's a load of one-sided fights.

But when you're coming into the sport, this takes time, right? But don't come in and say, everyone's useless. They've got no vision. These guys are terrible. Watch our body of work and then put on a load of dross. Right. So you keep saying, judge me on what we're doing.

Well, I'm judging you on what you're doing, and it's very low level, right? Now, I know you want to sign Shakur and you want to, but signing guys like Shakur and Haney, that doesn't actually mean anything. Is that 100%? I know you were the one that kind of broke the news. I think so.

Yeah, I mean, I think, again, the problem is with these contracts they want you to sign. They're not traditional contracts. So you've got incredible lawyers like John Horner for Devin Haney or Josh Dubin for Shakur, who look at these contracts and go, what? You want me to sign that, but obviously the money's incredible. But again, one thing, sign in a talent, the next thing is actually delivering the right fights for the broadcaster. and, you know, you know these guys,

are you surprised that they're signing with them? You know Haney, you know Shakur. Not for that amount of money. I mean, it's more than what you were giving them or what,

really? They will pay Devin Haney. Well, a lot more than double. Well, I will pay Devin Haney, a lot more than double. You know,

Shakur or stuff, but these are, these are great fighters, but it's, you've got to make the fights. It's like, you know, they go. They'll wear uniforms and stuff

to the best of clothes. We're going to do that. I think they'll do it for the money. Yeah. You know, I mean, everyone's different. You see, there's a lot of variation to the plan. You know, don't forget this was going to be a league, by the way, wasn't it?

I mean, that was the whole premise of what they were doing. Then there was absolutely no governing bodies. We're not working with governing bodies. Then they got massive kickback from the fighters. Then they tried to work with governing bodies, but kind of balls that up and got all their fighters stripped or some of them stripped. So I'm sure that they'll vary from the gloves or the kit or, whatever but I don't think I don't really think there is a plan I think it's just like let's be

disruptive less sign talent and let's spend the money I mean ultimately it's not Dana's company Dana works for Turkey Lashake who's the biggest shareholder and seller of Zuffer boxing and how long will that funding carry from those guys and how long will you be up for the battle I think that's the the bigger thing because there is no doubt that since Since Dana entered the boxing space, it seems like there's been a lot of high blood pressure. There's been a lot of raised voices. There's been a lot of questions to ask. And there's been a lot of revolt from the other business, which is the UFC business.

So I said when they got into this, like this is, I'm not sure this is, you're going to enjoy it that much. But he's a, he's a competitor, he's a battler. And I don't take him lightly. I know what he is. He's not going to want to, like you heard his comment. the other day. Turkey wants, you know, peace talks, yeah, good luck with that. Yeah, that'll be the toughest thing he's ever at to do. Okay. So, what I found interesting about that statement from Turkey, just being 100% honest. And I just want to say, before I say this, I do wish him the best. And

he alluded to some health problems and no one wants to see anyone suffer. But at the beginning of the statement, he said, it's my goal to get everyone together and to create peace, right? But my response to that was like, you kind of are the reason why there is. He loves it. He loves it. So, So there was peace until March of last year when he announced. I think it got a bit out of control. I mean, a lot of this stuff stems around the AJ Fury stuff. Again, the media kind of don't acknowledge or sometimes see. So at the Bournemouth show, Dana came out with, I mean, he was on full, like, I don't know,

he's got very sort of fruity. And he's, I know where the show. I know where the fight is and all this kind of stuff. And Turkey has a shake made Dana White delete all his posts from Zuffaboxing. Why? Talking about he's the promoter to show, and I know where to show is, and Eddie Hearn doesn't.

So it's quite embarrassing for someone like Dana White. You know that for a fact? You can check. They deleted four posts from the post-fight press conference, saying that he's the promoter, saying that he knows where to fight is, saying all this kind of stuff. And then after the White House stuff with Tyson Fury,

he got told off again by Turkey. And if you look then, Fury's posted all of a sudden, no, Turkey's my promoter. There's me, there's Turkey in the middle of me and AJ and all this kind of. stuff because ultimately Turkey's the guy that's putting this all together. He's the guy that's paying the bill. He's the guy that's having the vision to make these fights.

And I don't think he wants, he certainly doesn't want me parading around, pretending that I made fury against Joshua, because he made it. So then all of a sudden Dana comes in, now I'm the promoter, I've put this deal together. He gets his bum smacked. And that's what happened. So I think now it's got to a point

where actually Turkey is thinking, that's just because they're in a bit of a difficult position, because of the contract that exists for Anthony in the fight. Why? Well, because the contract's quite clear. Forget that Dana and Zuffer aren't allowed to be involved in it, which is contractually in place, but the venue. Because our contract states very clearly the fight has to take place in the UK.

Only the UK. But at the same time, Turkey's paying the bill. And he's our friend and he's our partner. And if he wants to change the venue, not the venue necessarily, but the country, which is a fundamental change to the contract, the contract needs to be renegotiated, which we're happy to have those conversations. If there's a reason he wants to take it to America,

we can talk about that. Has that been discussed? Has that been brought up? No, not yet. Is that a real thing, though, because it has been reported? I think so. Why would they want to have it in the US? Because I think, I mean, look, the fight's very expensive.

Obviously, the fight will be with Netflix. They want to generate the biggest gate possible. People actually don't understand that you can generate probably a bigger gate in Las Vegas for that fight than you can at Wembley because of the ticket pricing and the expectations that are already set within that pricing.

But I think it's minimal, to be honest. But when we entered into the agreement for that fight, AJ wanted, I wanted, that fight to be in the UK. It's the biggest fight in British boxing history. I'm not saying it would be a disaster if it went to the US, but it should be in the UK. That's just how we feel about it.

And we went into that fight thinking it would be. Now, if we got to change that, and obviously there's different withholding tax issues in different countries, like the deal will change, which is possible as well. And people get said, oh, so, you know, you're saying the fight might be in the US. Now, I'm just telling you what's in our contract. But also, if there's a new deal that's presented to us, maybe that's acceptable to us. So we haven't had those conversations yet. One of my least favorite storylines in combat sports right now is who is promoting AJ Fury.

I know. I'm so bored by it. I know. You do all these interviews about it. I skip right through it. Who cares? But we know who the guy is. I said yesterday, I said yesterday that contractually, Dana White can have no involvement in the event.

That's in writing. Yes. TKO's large. TKO Dana White or anyone affiliated. Okay. Zufor, anything, right? It's complete in black and white. Same entire and Pury's contract, actually.

Okay. So, and then I said yesterday. Like, if Turkey wants to change something in the contract, I was actually referring to the venue, maybe we have the conversation. And it'd be, oh, see, Eddie knows Dana's involved. I'm like, I don't really, one thing I promise you is he's not going to be in the middle of that fight and it's not his fight. It's Turkey-A-Lashakes fight. Right. It's not my fight.

It's not Frank Warren's fight. By the way, it's A.J. and Fury's fight. That's all that matters. But the guy that should be in the middle of that fight is the guy that made it happen. the fight wouldn't happen without Turkey-Ele-Lashake. He is solely responsible for making this fight. So let him have his moment. And I know he's not a guy who's like,

wants to always be in the middle of everything, but he should be for this fight. And listen, I don't care, I'll be over on the side with AJ, my guy, because that's what I am in this fight. My guy is Anthony Joshua. I'm his promoter. We're going into the biggest fight in history,

the biggest fight in boxing. And that's what I am. AJ's promoter. I don't care about, I want to be in the middle. Like, yeah, do I want Dana White in the middle? Not really, to be honest with you. You're going to pay me a shitload of money to allow him to be in the middle? If that's in the best interest of my client, I'm not going to stand in the way.

I don't think that's even the play, to be honest with you. The only play really to talk about contractually, and the only change we'd be willing to make subject to the conversation is the venue, because I'm not going to be obstructive to Turkey. If he says to me, Eddie, I need to do it here. then we'll cut a deal. To the best for your knowledge, what happened with Fury at the White House? Like, what was that? I don't know.

I mean, obviously, they, I don't know, you know, he said Turkey, but he's not been allowed to get into the US for 10 years, eight years, five, six years. Yeah. And obviously they changed that.

They got him in. He was obviously ecstatic. And then I don't know whether it was just a bit of hype, a big announcement coming to him. It seemed like the announcer John Anick was teeing him up to make him. announcement and he didn't want to make it. Maybe they got told off, I don't know, like, or maybe someone said, what, what, do you think he's signed with Zufa? I don't think so. No, but possibly. I mean, that's what it seemed like they were teeing him up to do. Yeah, I think, but, but I think, um, and there was a picture with Usik the next day. Yeah. Do you think he's going to sign with them? With Zufa? Yeah. Probably not. I don't know. I mean, I think, he's talked to him. I know that. But I think, you know, it depends on the guy, it depends on what you want, you know, where you are in your career. You know, a lot of the guys. You know, you know, a lot of the guys. You know, you know,

guys that are chasing greatness and legacy, just don't want to be with Zuffer. But if you're, if you've reached that point, and you're not really bothered about that anymore, you just want the money, why not? Do you know?

Choure hasn't reached that point just yet. I feel like there's a lot for him to do. Well, Chikour's a legacy guy, but at the same time, he's done a lot. He's a four division champion, but he's just like scratching the surface in my opinion in terms of superstard.

He's a tough, it's a tough one for him because you need the fights and Chakur is really good. Yeah. And you need, it's a bit like Geron this Saturday. Like you've got a guy,

I think Geron Ennis is a pound for pound top three guy. But unless you get the fights, how do you actually, you know, get that respect? And that's why Desaias fight is so important on Saturday, because we take that, then he can fight Fondora, or he can fight, you know, those kind of guys. And you can establish yourself. So I just, it's one thing getting the money,

it's another thing actually getting the fights. And the problem is with Shakur, he's really good. And a lot of people don't actually want to fight him because of how difficult he is to beat. Is Ferry going to take another fight? Is that official? As I understand it, he was supposed to fight on August 1st. I mean, it's not, you know, it's not my business.

But it sort of is. I think, I don't care. We don't care what Fury does. Like, it has to be around the same time as age. Yeah, it will be. I don't think he'd go much long. I mean, you've got August 1st, you've got the Queensbury show. And that's why I thought it might be.

August 8th is a Zuffa show. So in, in Dublin, you've got August 1st, Pierce O'Leary with Queensberry. you've got croak park 80,000 on September 5th and then Zuffer have announced a show the week after Auguste. Yeah, August, yeah, after the Queensbury show. Maybe he jumps on that. I don't know.

I mean, I think the bigger problem is no one really wants Fury to fight because he's had his fight but he wants to fight and I get that, you know. But obviously the level of opposition that he's going to face, it's not really a very big fight. So how much you're really going to get paid?

to be in a fight like that. And these guys make a lot of money. Do you want to do a full camp and get paid that amount of money for a fight? I feel like Terrence Crawford is coming back. Do you? Yeah. Based on his tweets.

I haven't seen his tweets, but when I've been around him, I think he's in New York now. I think he's a boxing writer's. Oh, yeah, yeah. When I've been around him, I've kind of felt like physically he's checked out. Like he talks about his body a lot.

He talks about how it broke down. particularly in the last few camps, you know, but he's a, Terrence is an unbelievable fighter and a real competitor. And he lives for competition. So I think, you know, I would never rule it out, but he's, I didn't get that feeling up from talking to him personally. I guess anything's possible. But listen, if Boots can get himself into a position where, you know,

he's a superstar of the sport and there's a huge amount of money for Crawford to fight And we would love that fight because that's a fight that I've wanted for a long time. And I think they're two unbelievable fighters. I love this Boots size fight. I love both of them very much. The card is great. Vargas on there, Whitaker on there. This to me is like, okay, top rank being involved with the zone, you're able to make these types of fights.

Is it, is it fair to say the winner gets Ortiz? Or are we past the Ortiz point? Because if Boots wins, now you want to try to get the other belts too, right? Yeah, I mean, that's the problem with the Ortiz fight. is I said before one of the most unique things about Boots against Ortiz was there was no belt.

Right. Yeah, it was one of the best fights in boxing. Now we're fighting for the Unified World Championship. The natural progression from there is to try and become undisputed. Right, of course. But Ortiz will also come back. He'll want a warm up.

He'll be out for a year. He's not going to go straight into boots. If he wants to, we can look at that as well. But my gut feeling is that Ortiz will probably return in, I don't know, September, October. All being well, boots will beat Zubes. Dias and then he'll try and unify again. And then we'll fight Virgil or C's.

I think that fight has to happen. I think I'm to blame for that fight not happening. Was it, was it Oscar? You don't really know. Like you're always, you know, the promoter is always going to say, you know, we did everything for you. And I'm sure there's a huge amount of truth in it. You know, we backed you financially when you started.

We got you this. We allowed this opportunity. You know, and then there's the fighter saying, no, you didn't do this. I wasn't, you know. And I guess you never really know. This is not really for me to comment. you know I think that

Oscar is sometimes in the middle of he's a promoter and he runs a business and he's also a fighter and he you know I think he

I think he does although we've had our differences over the past he does fight for his guys and you know but at the same time it is a business that you're running and you know I think on the whole

Golden Boy doing a good job And I think on the whole, Oscar de La Jolla is up for the fight. You know, I think he's got the bit between his teeth. I think he's proud of the fight as he represents. I think he fights for them. But at the same time. And I think sometimes when those fighters go against that,

I think sometimes he can take it a little bit personally because, you know, he's emotional for his fighters as well. And it's a bit like Ryan Garcia and Virgil Ortiz, where it's like, you know, he kind of goes all out on the things that he might say. and then that kind of separates the relationship further and so forth. Because he cares, you know, and I think he's passionate about what he does. I do have to say, and I know it's not fair necessarily to ask you about this, but you're sort of the face of it all.

The dezone stable of promoters right now has never been better, right? Between yourself, Queensberry Boxer, Top Rank, Golden Boy, etc. It drives me insane that I'm sitting down to watch Eddie Hall versus Tommy Fury and that's behind a pay-per-view paywall. This sport is never going to grow. There's already a paywall to get DeZone. And now I have to pay even more to watch this fight. Rico Verhoeven versus Alexander Usik should not have been on pay-per-view.

That's insane. Boots versus Zias, if you want this sport to grow, can't be on pay-per-view. There's already a cost to get de zone. Why are you charging us more to watch these fights? Because I think the mechanics of the fights these days. I mean, we go back to what I just said about, you know. They're the only platform left doing pay-per-view. That's it.

I mean, not necessarily. I mean, outside of, you know, other standalone, There are other pay-per-view outlets. Where in North America? Yeah, but other... I'm talking about platforms in general around the world. But it can be smaller platforms as well. They're the number one.

But also at the same time, Ariel, there has to be a way to make these fights and make the mechanics work for these fights. I've always been of the opinion. And I think the DeZone Ultimate package, I think, is actually quite interesting. Like, if you are actually a fight fan, that package is unbelievably cost effective across the big fights. But I do also acknowledge from your point of view if you're not part of that plan which you should be by the way if you're consistently watching the big fights

to individually pay for everyone is not actually the thing you should be doing because they've created this plan for subscribers and for people that actually watch all boxing. So sometimes we, and I understand it from fans, we don't quite acknowledge that, you know, what you just said there about bringing all these promoters together, you know, having this huge liquidity of fight nights

available to subscribers, this incredible schedule where as a fight fan you are consistently watching fights from around the world I mean even this morning you had Liam Crocler against Lewis Crocker

from Australia from Australia World Championship event you know then you go into you've got shows Friday night you've got Boots Zias and then you just add bam you know winning his third division championship it's like it's non-stop

so there has to be a mechanic to make the business work and the great news for fight fans and the great news for DeZone is right now the platform is extremely successful and that's great news for boxing because that ecosystem is working and it's such a unique ecosystem of what you just said there and boots against zayas would never happen if top rank

were with the espion and and match him with the no this because they go with i mean and top rank i don't i mean they never tried to convince zias not to take it they think i they think he's mad for taking this fight i'm sure they think he can win but they're like you're 23 years old like you're a superstar why are you fighting boots? And he's like, the kid's saying, because I'm the best. And I want to prove on the best. So hats off to Zandaziah.

So in answer your question, there has to be a way and a model to make it work. That model is not in existence so that DeZone can make millions of dollars. It's to be able to make the big fights consistently. And, you know, also, the numbers are good, right? So when you talk about Eddie Hall against Tommy Fury,

that's a pay-per-view, if you paid for that. No, that's on you. But I wanted to see it. Yeah, I know, I get it. Sit down and I'm like, oh, another freaking paywall. But what I'm saying is I'm saying that these shows are doing big numbers. They're success. Are there?

Yeah. And they're allowing fighters to actually earn the money. Tommy Fury and Eddie all made a lot of money. You know, boots against, you got to understand. If you want to see boots against Zias, these guys, you know, because of the crazy world that we live in, in boxing, they're making a lot of money. You have to find a way to create a model that actually works to give those guys what they need and what they want. Back in the day, HBO, the way. was a select few fights on pay-per-view.

The purses were completely different. You're talking about guys making a couple of hundred thousand for fights. Now you're talking about guys that are making five million. So is the system broken? Would you say the system got out of hand? I think what is broken and what doesn't make sense is the purses that fighters are receiving given the commercial, their commercial value, or particularly given the pot of money that exists. Do you know what I'm saying?

It's a crazy world. And again, when you go back to UFC, it's exactly the opposite. So you've got all this money in the pot, but the fighters getting a tiny percentage. In boxing, you've got all this money in the pot and the fighters are taking everything. Good luck to them, by the way. It's our job as promoters to make the model work and to make the business work for us. But sometimes the person, like, again, you go back to the Connor Ben, you go back to Johnny. Like, that, if someone's prepared to lose five, ten million or seven figures,

consistently over shows, that's when the business becomes difficult because you're like, well, we can't, you know, we're a business. We're not a holiday camp. We've got to find a way to make it work. But if people are willing to lose that amount of money on fighters per show, the whole business is bonkers. Boxing is a bonkers business. It doesn't make sense. So to that point, do you think that Zufa is targeting your guys driving up the price to take them away? Like the Johnny Fisher situation. Yeah, but that's a bizarre one. Like Johnny's a, I love. Johnny. I'm so happy for him, by the way. Is he gone? Yeah, oh, I've told him you need to crawl there now and sign the contract. Has he done it? I don't. I'm not sure. You won't look to match. You saw the numbers. If they offered him half of what they offered him, I wouldn't match. Like, this is a, he, Johnny wants to fight two or three guys. Honestly, I could probably beat, right? I can't pay that kind of money for a product like that. So why do you think they want him? Because they don't know, they just presume that people are going to buy tickets and he's a big name and he's, you know, he's a popular guy.

Fight fans aren't idiots. When you see the fight they'll announce for him, you will go, like, no wonder, Eddie didn't match this, because I can't, you're going to do a show and lose million dollars on Johnny. Like Johnny would have sat in the fight that he'll be in. It would have been on struggle to be a co-main event, but, you know, but they'll headline with it because they haven't got any fighters yet in the UK.

But by the way, they're making terrible mistakes, but when you come into the market, that's what you do. We did it with the zone. we came in and overpaid fighters, made terrible mistakes like they're doing, but that's to establish a foothold in the game. And if they're going after your guys? Maybe. I don't know.

I think that, you know, Connor Ben was... They went after them. Yeah, but also, you're going to go after the guys that have, or you perceive, to have a big commercial value. So, you know, when you say they've gone after Bam, Bam's top three pound for pound in the sport, they're going to go after Bam. They've gone after Shakur. He's not with us.

They've gone after Devon. They've gone after the Tio. They've gone after Ussik. They've gone through the whole. So it's not, I don't feel like it's necessarily our guys, but don't get me wrong, you can make terrible emotional decisions

because of the rivalry and because of the frustration that you're facing in that battle. So what I'm going to make them do is keep making bad mistakes and keep costing them a lot of money so that when the balance sheet rolls out at the end of the year, Tirkilla Shake or sell a look at the business and go, what's this?

Oh, well, we wanted to get him, we wanted to get him. And then you shine Shakur for 20 million. signed Devin for 15 million, then you can't get the fight that you want and you have to give them a poor fight and the business underperforms and you lose another 10 million on that show. It's like boxing's a weird old business

but they're a big company, they're big boys, they've got deep pockets, so they'll be okay. Why did EJ sign with CIA for marketing? Because, well, a number of reasons. CIA are a fantastic representational company. I mean, the big question from Dana which baffled me because he just doesn't understand. You know, why didn't Eddie Hearn sign him on a management deal?

Because it's illegal. And someone said to me, yeah, but he's in the UK. We're an American company. We have American offices. AJ's last fight was in America. There is a chance that the Fury fight could be in America. We'd be committing an offense.

Even if it's sponsorship only, you're not allowed to do that? Yeah, it's management. Okay. You can't be a manager and a promoter. It's illegal under the Muhammad Ali Act. And I'm not risking any of that. That's why from AJ's get-go, we've never been across his commercial

and his management. In fact, he was with a number of agencies. He then built 258, which was his own management company. And one of the reasons that he's making this move is he wants to solely focus on his boxing. Because he ran 258, right? And he created that business. He employed a lot of people. And the stress of running that business, because he likes to be across everything, was draining him.

And after the Dubois fight, he sort of said, you know what, I need to get rid of all these things that are keeping me up at night and focus on my boxing. So Freddie Cunningham, who ran 258, went to CIA and then said to AJ, look, and our advice to AJ was, great move, very established commercial agency. And again, for 13 years, we haven't represented him on a management or commercial side because we can't. So he used that as sort of like a toward the time. But again, he made himself look stupid because he doesn't know anything about. the Muhammad, he doesn't know

that you can't manage and promote fires collectively. It's a complete conflict of interest even across the commercial side because you've got

commercial deals of your own with Matron plus you've got this guy's got his own individual commercial deals. It's just, I mean the basis of it

is it's illegal. When AJ signed, did he tell you? Oh yeah, but this is about a year ago really, like in terms of actually the conversations and how it was going to happen.

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, we run a lot now My dad's become incredibly involved. I mean, don't forget, Anthony Joshua was the first shareholder of Matrim Sport outside of the Hearn family. Wow. Which is an incredible story. Wow.

And, you know, obviously with our deal that we've just done with Brewing, Anthony and Joshua had a great time too. Okay. And we're very proud of him. And we work very closely across a lot of. My dad has become very close with Anthony and his personal business now, not his commercial. or his representation, but just helping him out as kind of like an ear, because Anthony's a super bright guy and he's very deep and very intellectual and he like, he wants to, he wants to be hands on across all his different stuff, but he's realized now that he can't do that in boxing

because it's dragging his energy into different areas. And I've never seen him so focused on his career as he is now. Never seen him so happy about his boxing. I've never seen him so motivated. Everything will come down to the performance on July 25th and the Fury Fight, but I've never been so confident about what he's going to do. And I'm so happy to see him happy,

especially after everything that happened. It's shocking that he's... I think the strength that he has shown is unbelievable, unbelievable. And to be out there in Valencia, to take yourself to a new environment, a new team, but also to do it within the horrific moments of grief that he has suffered and to still focus so much on the families of Sina and Lats like he is

and to give them their support whilst mixing that in with dealing with your own, you know, mental trauma of what happened and mixing that into your own physical demands of training care. and your own personal goals. This man is amazing, honestly. He's an incredible individual and so proud of him. And going into this fight, I've never been more, you know, I text him two days ago.

I said, how do you feel? He said, I feel great. He said, I've never been so fit. My conditioning. Like what they go through in this camp with Usik. And you learn all the time. Like, AJ's a, AJ knows, he's been building training camps for 30. years, right? And this just blew us all away. Like, I've seen training camps. I've seen a hundred

training camps. And when I went out there, you just realized there's always another level. And he's never trained like this before. Never trained like this. And that's going to play a big part. When you look at Fury's set up, Fury's training camp, Fury's, you know, who's the trainer? Like, this is going to pay a big, big price. And, listen, let's get through. July 25th, but I'll tell you what, if he goes out there and does a great job and looks sensational, we ain't losing this Tyson Fury fight. No way. Two last ones. Tremendousik. Thank you. Riko Usick, Shambolic. Agree? In the respect to the stoppage? Stoppage, scorecards. Yeah, I've never subscribed to the theory that boxing doesn't allow these things to happen.

Like, oh, he can't win. On that night, I felt like there were people who decided that he can't win. So I, no, I don't agree with that. How do you how do you defend those scorecards and that stoppage? Because no, so. It's graceful. But what you're saying is you can't, you're making it sound corrupt. It felt corrupt. No, not, not at all.

The scorecards were egregious. No, not all of them. Really? No, I had, I had going into, was, he was stopped in the 12th, right? 11th. It stopped in 11th. Going into the 10th, I had Rico, two rounds, maybe three rounds up. right

he gets dropped in the 11th now if it hadn't had got stopped so he's sorry he loses the 10th or something but in the 11th

if he doesn't get stopped it's a 10 8 round I think I would have had it all square going into the last with the 108 round right but the score cards did not represent that

well I can't remember what all of them were but one of them I think one of them had it all square which I think was wrong going into the but I only had another one I think

had Rico up by one or two, which is about how I had it going into the 11th round, right? For me, when you say about like, they didn't want him to win, I'm not talking about you, by the way, but it's still my sport and I think I have to protect it. And I, because it's how, how do you defend that? So how I defend it is, with judging, what I do believe is there is a pre-conceived opinion going into a fight. Sure. Right. There is absolutely no way. I promise you. that a judge sits there and goes, Rico won that round, but I'll give it to Usik.

Now, what I do think is there are judges that go into that fight going, this is a mismatch. There is absolutely no way that Rico can win that fight. It shouldn't be that way, right? No, but that's, unfortunately, but everyone's got opinions. You can't, you can't go,

so I'm going to raise my mind and not have an opinion. But then it's like having a self-fulfilling prophecy. Now you're trying to back your own opinion. I agree, but that's not right. But that's, but in every scenario, of judging, you could be going into a fight, right, where you go, I like aggressive fighters. And I don't like fighters who fight defensively.

Oh, he's had all the aggression, but he hasn't landed anything. I'll give it to the aggressive fighter. This is just the individual, right? But what I'm trying to get at is trust me when I say, it's never, I'll give that one too sick. It's like he can't win. So, yes, if there's a close round, I understand that sometimes you could be going to the champion, etc. What Rico did, which was actually, I've got to be honest with you. I thought

I knew you didn't give him a chance Not a chance I know He's like playing it on the broadcast You and AJ type Jason Stafen was sitting with Turkey and I was a great guy by the way And he was like

I said mate You have got Absolutely Because I was looking at Rico's legs Right And they are like this era No fighter Boxer has legs like this

And I'm looking They're going He's going to be like in quick sand And after four or five rounds He's going to gas out So quick right He's going to get stopped whenever Usik wants.

And this is the truth of what I felt. And what Rico did, I mean, he came out for the first minute. He looked like he'd never really boxed before. And not everyone's kind of looking at each other going, oh, this is going to be so one-sided and embarrassing. And then as the fight went on, it's like, oh my God, he's won another round. He was incredible, unbelievable. Now, the stoppage, right, goes down heavy, right, gets up.

the fight should never have been stopped. Also, the bell would run. Yes. So, I mean, so you can't really get more. I do, and it's very easy to say, well, he would have got stopped in the next time. No, you can't do that. No, but I do actually think that could have happened. But it's irrelevant anyway.

It's a bit, it's a bit like, like my question to you is, and I've talked to judge about it is, when there's five seconds left in the round, do you acknowledge that, or do you act on how that fighter is at that moment? So what I'm saying is when you hear the clapper and there's a guy hurt, as a referee, you're going, well, there's only five seconds,

let him get through the round. I think subconsciously you should be doing that. But I'm not so sure whether that's the right thing to do. I think the ref has to make a decision, regardless of the time of the round, is this guy safe at the moment? He felt he wasn't, right? it was

you know it wasn't the worst stoppage I've ever seen he was hurt there was a lot of unanswered punches but they weren't really landing two three seconds

after the rounder was I know so yeah but but look one thing's for sure John Leifam who's a very good ref he didn't he didn't stop that fight

because Rico was on the verge of causing an upset he did what he felt was right at the time yeah in my opinion it was wrong and it was in a mistake but now if I'm Alexander Usick

I'm thinking, what a gift. Because now you've got the rematch, right? I think in Amsterdam, which I think would be incredible. Tremendous. Yeah. And Ussick should be beating him every time. Like really, now he's got his measure. I don't, and again, I don't want to write off RICO again

because he was incredible. No, but Stiles make fights. Don't forget A.J. was fighting RICO. Yeah. Right? I actually think A.J. would do a cleaner job on RICO because he's a hard, like Ucic was landing a lot, but just not. with enough power to be that effective,

I actually think, again, but this guy has shown he's dangerous. But if I'm Usi, I'm not fighting Caboio in Germany, I'm fighting Rico in Amsterdam. Last one. What was the difference this time with Croke Park as opposed to in the past?

Why were you able to get it done now and not in all those other times that you tried? Confidence of the numbers, I think it's the best way. Meaning that it would deliver? Yes. I think that the swell of public support was way higher now than it's ever. ever been before.

Because it was the last one? The last one, the Netflix fights, right? The Serrano victory, all that kind of stuff. And I just got a gauge from even like, again, same sort of thing, walking down the street, social media, comments on my post where I thought, you know what? I really think this can work. And there was a guy called Peter Aiken as well, who's kind of like a co-promoter with us. He does all Garf Brooks.

He does Springsteen. He does all the big events at Croke Park. and he was able to kind of give me a little bit more comfort and also he wanted to play a part in the business of the show and I just felt like I think I think we can do it I think we can sell it out and it's just one of those things where you did well you go on sale and it's like it's 80,000 it's a female fire and as great as Katie is it's all very well people saying give her a croat park eddie

the people will come out for her and it's like can you guarantee me that please but island's different what's something about Ian Gary as well you know like these people they're one-offs these these like these Irish you know they get behind their own like you've never seen and we when we went on that pre-sale and we did 40,000 on the pre-sale

I was like I can't believe it and then you know I think we've still got a few hundred on the floor or something like that but like basically everything's gone and it's like that will be the grub of everything I've ever done in the spool when she walks out at Croke Park, that will be the greatest moment of my career,

the greatest thing I've ever witnessed in sport, let alone boxing. Can you imagine? The noise, you know, Kay, she's the most wonderful person. And it's an honor to be, to be, and what a finish to her career. Oh, it's amazing. Story book. Story book. Yeah, incredible.

Well done. My favorite part of all that is Brian Peter's crying at the press conference. I know. I've not let him off it for one day. Good. don't. Thank you so much. Good luck this weekend. Tickets available. Yep, still to go. We're going to have, we're about 12, 13,000 at the moment. I think we'll end up 15, 16,000, which will be incredible. What a fight. And darts, uh, Darts, we got Lou coming in today. Thursday, yeah, Thursday, Friday. I was hoping to give you

some news. Tell me, tell me. But I can't. What? I'll just say this, major broadcast deal being announced for the Darts. Okay. Probably tonight. Tonight. Yeah, I can't, but, you know. You give us to Ian Gary. Yeah, there you go. Thank you for timing. We're going to actually have Ben Whitaker in studio in a matter of a moment. So we'll say goodbye to Eddie and then bring in the surgeon. Don't go anywhere. Okay, back on the program. That was my conversation with Mr. Boot Tennis, who is headlining Barclays Center. What's happening here? What's going on? I got all these things. Frank put me all these different things here. I don't know. What's a problem? You can still, no, I'm just, a lot. Such a big day here. What about Eddie? On fire today, Mr. Eddie Hearn. Absolutely on fire.

Can you still hear me, Frank on this? You're talking to me? That was amazing stuff from Eddie. appreciate him very, very much. Still to come. Luke Littler, as we just said, in studio. The man himself, also still to come. Cody Rhodes, the American Nightmare, live from a live event in Sheffield, England. But I'm so excited about our next guest

because I've been wanting to have this man in studio for quite some time. He is the surgeon, they call him. He is currently 11-0-1, 8 knockouts, 29 years young. He just turned 29, as a matter of, fact. He is the current WBC silver light heavyweight champion, and he is making his U.S. and North American debut on the undercard of this Duran Boots Ennis versus Xander Zazaz card right here in

New York City, Brooklyn, Barclay Center, to be exact. He's the one and only the silver medalist. Ben Whitaker, there he is. Big Ben. It's so great to see you, my man. Thank you so much. Wow, wow, wow. Finally in studio. A long time coming. Exactly How are you doing? Yeah, not too bad, Oh, good, How's America treating you?

It's good, man. You've been here before, I presume, yeah? Yeah, I've been here a good couple times. I've trained at the OTC. Oh, yes. Talking to the microphone, if you don't mind. We want to hear you. This is a big deal.

Pretty much. U.S. debut? No, you don't think. Not really. What? This is the big, like, showcase. It is, it is. It is.

It's just another fight for me. Okay. As an amateur, I've traveled the whole world, so I'm treating it just like that. Another arena, another opponent. Another way to show you can't think of it that way in other words you'd want to put that pressure on yourself Of course of course pressure is good I've always got pressure a lot of people watch me but for me it's just another fight which it is I think if you put too much on it then you start overthinking it was this something you were pushing for

I want to fight in America. I want to get out there I know you had the the couple fights in Saudi but other than that it's always been the UK Is this something you asked for is this something Eddie and the guys said we need to bring you over? It's kind of a joint thing but definitely I've pushed it from my side. I've got a lot of fans over this side I get a lot more love over this side so for me it just made sense and I'm happy it's here now. Why is that? Why is that? I think they get the bit of the flamboyance to get the character. They like when I put

on a show and over here I get a bit applauded for the showboating to compared to home. It's such a wild thing man. The Brits, the media in particular fascinates me. Like we're going to have Luke Littler on later in the show in studio and he gets so much flack from the British public and I don't understand he's like he's one of your own

why don't you back him? It's the way it is sadly, but like you said, the blue little, the built him up, little blip to tear you down. It's just the way it is, but you need a strong mindset to be in the UK. The thing is love or hate you, as long as you win, that's all that matters. So that's what I do. Does it ever get to you? Does it ever bother? Sometimes it can do you.

You're a human at the end of the day, but I've got to a point now where it goes like this, because at the end of the day, they can all say it, but as long as you're winning, they'll tune into the next one. What about the social media? Do you look at that? Not anymore. I get that many messages on there. It keeps refiltering anyway, so I'm quite luckily with it. But for me, like I said, the can all say, how about you get the gloves and you jump in there and give it a try?

That's what I say. I saw you yesterday at the open workouts. You're fighting Popeye the Sailor Man. What's up with this guy? He doesn't seem to respect you very much. You know what? He's just saying what it's supposed to say. If he came in here a bit timid and, oh, I think I'm going to lose.

No, no one says that. Exactly. So for me, just playing the script. he's saying what he's supposed to say he has fought for a world title like Cruiserweight so on paper is a good fighter but I just believe in every department I'm a better fighter

I'm faster, I'm more athletic I'm quicker I'm good looking I'm out of the boxes man so for me to go out there Saturday perform and get the win what did you think of his outfit yesterday kind of ridiculous but we move on he said this I saw this quote from him

I was never a Ben Whitaker fan and anyone who is standing behind this clown doesn't know boxing I'm the boogeyman he made a mistake trying to fight me in my backyard. It sounds good, doesn't it? It sounds real good. Not the first time you've heard this type of rhetoric, right?

Like I said, the good thing is I'm a student of the game, so I've watched fights, I've watched build-up to fights, MMA unboxing, so for me, it's all he-say-she-say for me. At the end of the day, we've both got to get in there Saturday, and I just believe I'm the better man, so when it comes Sunday, you might have to delete a couple of hours. I do have to say you're in some kind of shape, holy spokes. I feel good, man.

Jeez, Louise, I saw that. face off yesterday you had the eight pack there like shredded shredded man how much do you weigh right now right now we do kilograms oh yes I'll look it up I'll look it up yeah so this morning I was 81.2 so 81.2 KG is 179 so you've got like four pounds left

there you go so nice and easy and the way they got me doing a lot of mediated I think I'll be on weight tomorrow and is that typical for you or you okay I'm always in shape and luckily I'd not just long come from a camp another knockout so for me it was like the ball keeps rolling straight into camp with andy my brother and uh when you do that you're always in shape you don't have to get ready so it works better for like that so i think is this the third fight with matrim or you third fight yeah

how would you describe how it's gone so far it's gone good uh they've done everything they can for me they gave me two headlines uh now i'm out in america on a big card so for me it's going the way it's supposed to go at the end of the day i'm the fighter i'm supposed to go out there perform a win and they're supposed to bring me these guys. That's what they're doing. So as now it's going well, I'll rank number two in the IBF, number two with the WBC,

so I'm there and thereabout. So everything's going good. How many fights with them? Three fights, so. Oh. This would be my fair, won't it? Yeah, but how many total? Two fights.

My deal? Yeah. I can't talk about it. Well, I know, why know? I can't talk about it. I'm not asking for your purse. I just want to know how many more before you, like, you know, have to rethink.

Yeah. We've got a couple more. Okay, okay, okay. But you're happy. Yeah, I'm happy at the end of the day. There is competition out there, of course, and the competition keeps it juicy. But for me, they've got a good team. They've got a good platform. And for me, they're moving me the right way. And they've not got a lot of people right now either. So I believe I'm one of the main ones. What do you mean by that? They don't have a lot of people? I lost a couple guys, haven't they? Okay, okay. So for me, I'm in a good position. They've got A.J., they've got me. Who else? I've got numbers like me and A.J. So for me, I believe if I keep winning, do what I'm supposed to do, I'll be the next guy. So you consider yourself one of the faces of Matron?

100%. What about Boots? How do you feel about him? Boots, yeah, USA-wise, good. He's a world champion. He's achieved more than me on paper, but numbers-wise, I feel like I do bigger numbers. But fight-wise and resume is ahead of me right now.

What's interesting about Boots is that he clearly doesn't like the interviews, the media. He's very soft-spoken, he keeps to himself. When you see fighters who are that talented but don't embrace the other side of the game, what do you think? Because you embrace it all, and this is part of the person. of the reason why people feel so strongly about you. Other fighters, I feel like, are leaving money on the table because they don't want to put themselves out there.

I kind of like it, though, as well, because he's being true to himself. I'm a big fan of Bam Rodriguez, too, and he's the same. He don't really say him much, but when he goes out there, he puts on a performance where I'm very good friends with Keishon. He talks a lot and backs it up. But that's him. He's not being fake. He's just being true to himself.

And at the end of the day, I respectfully, people who beat himself where when they're forcing it when they're not really being themselves you can kind of figure that out as a fighter too so just be yourself and of course there's money on the table that they're probably losing but if they put the self out there in a way they're not not like to be perceived it's not good as well so okay so you just want them to be authentic yeah authentic and like I said they let the hands through the talking the one world titles they're near enough uh with boots both in the pound for pounds so they're doing the things they're supposed to do have we chilled on the antics is that a fair thing to say is Andy lee like kind of put it all together in a nicer package here?

What is it? I feel like we're not seeing, you know, I love it. It's must-see TV when you fight, but I feel good Andy, who I had as my trainer of the year last year. So I think he's phenomenal, outstanding as a trainer, but I feel like he's maybe, I don't know, calmed you down a little bit. Is that fair? Yes, and Noah actually really likes it.

When I spar, he loves it. But there's a time and a place for it. That's what I'd say he's good about Andy. He's told me there's a time and a place for it. So my last two-fights. to match room they both ended so quick because I saw the opportunity and I took it. I could have easily maybe hopped on one foot, did a couple of pirouettes, made the fight a bit longer but if it was there take it and it's funny because I get a bit of 50-50 from that.

People are saying what is he not dancing no more? Yeah yeah. So hopefully this Saturday we can bring a bit above. So I was wondering if as the competition gets better you will do less of that. Is that accurate or no? Like I said there's a time and a place. Sometimes you need to do that because it's a completely different different fight but for me I always want to do I think that is my true style not a lot of people can do it especially at light heavy weight but I'm showing that I can box as well I'm showing that I can hit as well and that's what I'm showing I've got a lot of different tools in my toolbox so for me sat there's another time to show what else I got in the locker what do you like so much about

Andy as a as a as a coach a trainer a leader oh firstly as a far you want to see a coach with routine you want to see what he does with his other fighters so he's got a great stable it's a small stable but a solid stable and not only that not every fighter makes a good coach but he was a fighter before a world champion as well he's been in fights that are tough fights

he's overcome them he's become a world champion and when someone's done that you want to listen a little bit more you believe what to say and not only that is one of us so we're in the house having a laugh probably bullying one of our friends he'll bully them too so it's good to have that like barbersome relationship and

when we train we both switch on but it was the perfect move for me at the right time and it's a good addition to the team. Is it really just the four of you? Yes, Patty, Hamza, Joseph Parker. That's it. That's it. Well, there's other guys that coming in and out. So we've got, these are the boxer called Jim.

I think he's Paddy's cousin and a couple other amateur guys maybe, but that's the main pros. And it's good. For me, I'm very competitive. So if we've got Hamzer on the one bag, Patty on the other, I'll be looking.

He's three two on four. comes through six, I'm throwing 12. That's what I try and do. And it keeps me on my toes. It's kind of like the old amateur days where you've got competition. So it kind of works perfect. Okay. By the way, I saw the business of Ben Whitaker doing very well.

Because I know you had, you were with Adidas. Are you still with Adidas? No, not anymore. Are you with Allo now? No, I did a little shoot for them. You know, I'm in my modelling bag, but I'm with Montrex right now. And they've got a good little team. Look at you over here.

Look at this. So what is this? What is this? So, yeah, it was a footwear deal for Aelo. alo as you say it was good um i was all over the shops that's a big deal right there's a very big deal man i didn't know how big the brown was but it was amazing but as you see right now i'm rocking the muntrix me ilia teporea and shakura assigned to them okay okay so it's looking okay so no more adidas no more adidas okay i remember being in the tube in london yeah man

yeah yeah you said yeah yeah yeah that was amazing to be with them big brand but like i said i'm rocking with montricks okay did you see ilia a couple weeks ago Yeah, tough fight. Tough one. Tough fight. I kind of, well, you can't say a goal that way because you're saying like, oh, yeah, I know everything. But just engage, you ain't no push around, man. Like, his stand-up games good.

And there was little uppercats he was doing, broke down Ilyad to Poria. A fair play, he tried to come out. His brother tried to force him probably out in that round. But he took enough, man, and it was a great fight. You like M.A? I like M.A. Okay, you watch it? I watch it.

Yeah, I only watched it because I played the game so much. You know what I used to play the game. I was like, let me watch it. And from my gym, actually, Jay Herbert was there. Okay, yeah, yeah, of course. So I knew Ilya from that. When you watch those guys, a lot of boxers kind of look down on MMA fighters,

I think because they say, oh, they're sloppy. They don't throw punches well and stuff. When you watch it, you watch it from a different perspective because they always have to deal with so much more, right? Take downs, knees, elbows, things like that. So you can't necessarily compare the two stances. It's a completely different sport when I spoke to Jai Herb. I said, what do you think is a tougher sport?

And fair play, he said boxing. He said, because the thing is with boxing, you've only got your hands. Where MMA, you've got a whole different catalog of things you can do. You can kick, grapple, wrestle. And I think it's a very tough sport. Like, if I had the choice, I wouldn't do it. Okay. It's a tough sport.

It's five minute rounds. The little gloves. The way they get ground and pound when they get dropped. It's tough, man. I respect them all. I'm a big fan of Alex Chama. Yeah, I like him. And it was a tough night for him.

Yeah, it was a tough night for him. But what's the other guy's name? The one who beat him. Yeah. Surreal guy. I like him. He's good, too. I like him.

And I'm happy he got his, he's happy in a sort of way because what happened with Tom Aspinall. Yeah. It was a bit of a shame for him. So he got that weird. But Aspinol's a countryman of yours. He's a fellow countryman. He is.

I like him too. But I felt a bit in justice for him with the eye poke. He's a bit of shame. But I like, I like that French guy. He's good. It's very sharp of it. And I sort of. Sparring, a lot of people's putting sparring out.

You can't really say much, but they put the sparring out of Alex. He was getting hit a lot. And I thought, oh, the French guy can hit him. Yeah. And he had to gain so much weight to go up from light heavyweight in our sport. In MMA is 205 and then 265 is heavyweight. It's a big jump. That's why you have to give a lot of props to Israel and Assange.

Yeah. Oh, look at you with the ball knowledge, man. Yeah, you got the ball knowledge. But to fight someone like him, how much he balloons up. Yeah. And then he did knock him out. And every fight he always used to hurt him. So I respect Easy, man

We're good friends, we talk a lot, so it's cool You and Izzy? Yeah, yeah, you have a very... Yeah, you have a very similar Like, you're both showmen Yeah, you have a flare for the dramatic The dancing, all that stuff Did you reach out to him?

He reached out to you? How did you guys link up? I just remember when I went on my Instagram And I saw the follow request I did whatever, followed him back, chopped it up a little bit And I've been a fan of his for a good while So to see someone like that

tuning with me, I respected it a lot And hopefully you can come back there Get a win. All the tats are or anime? Everything. Everything. Yeah.

One piece? One piece, Naruto, Dragon Ball. This guy right here. Yeah. Luffy, man. Who is that? That's Luffy, that is. From which?

From one piece. Okay, from one piece. So it gets a lot of love that one. That one on my back tattoo. But I ain't gonna lie the hurt, man. They hurt? Which one hurts the most? Probably my knee.

That one killed. My knee? My knee or my inner bicep. That one there was a, is emotional. Are these new? No, I've had it for a while now, but the artist is so good. Shout to Rani in Barcelona. It's very good.

Holy smokes. I wonder why the knee is so sensitive there, I guess. It's just pure bone. Yeah, yeah. It's like the bone, the knee. Right, right, right. I call it mental training, man. If you can get through that, you can fight anybody.

That's what I say. Are you done? No, I want to get my hands done next. Your hands? Yeah. Okay. Oh, look at these. Look at these here.

Yeah, so there we go, man. They look good though. And the good thing is with the back tattoo, that's kind of what blew me up as well. Oh, for real? Ice Cube, so must be a one-piece fan. O'Shea Jackson. Yeah, yeah. So he posted something about it with the back tattoo.

Then out of that, the next day, I had like 500K followers. Next day, a million followers. He just kept going bigger and bigger. Just because of O'Shea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So fair play to him, man. You ever meet him?

Never met him. Wow. Who knew? He was in the movie Straight Out of Compton. He played his father. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So shout out to him. Okay, I did not know that.

By the way, speaking of going up and whatnot, were you surprised? So David Benavides goes up to Cruiserweight. Were you surprised that he did that well against Zerto? No. I think the sparred each of it before. You're going to take that fight from David Benavides. You kind of know you must have done something well in sparring.

But sparring and fights are completely different. To go up there and perform the way he performed, it was good to see. And the ball's in his court to see what he wants to do. Now does he come back down to light heavyweight? Does he stay at Cruzeweight? It's exciting to see. What do you think he does? I don't know because he did look.

comfortable there it did look big and to keep chopping down that weight yeah it is it is a it is a big ask and a big task but there's a lot of fights there from at light heavy weight and there's a lot of fights there from at cruiserweight so i suppose whatever the money fight makes sense how far away do you think you are from those types of fights at light heavy weight not far at all like i said i'm ranked two with the w bc which is his belt so i'm near enough there with him and with the ibf for a bival i'm near enough there right second two so for me you can't look too far ahead but dusty this guy's Saturday, we're near enough. So you think like after Saturday all goes well, you're in those discussions?

100%. 100%. I think people are kind of anxious to see in those fights, right? Yeah, a lot of people are anxious. And I'm anxious myself. I want to be in those fights to prove how good I am. By the end of the day, there is a process to this game. So beat this guy's Saturday, look good.

We go back to the drawing board. And it's a good time to be a light heavyweight because you've got so many names from top to bottom. So for me, I'm excited. What about an Anthony yard? Yeah, I think that would make a last. 100% especially he's Arsenal I'm Tottenham Yeah

Know what the English fans are like So I think that would do very well And I'd finally get a win for the Tottenham fans By the way, how nervous were you on? Squeaky Bum time By the skin of your teeth I ain't gonna lie I'm good friends with Morgan Gibbs White

That's my boy And he was annoyinging me man Keep scoring them bangers He was amazing He was gonna head in man But he was supposed to join our team For real Yeah he was supposed to join our team

Oh yeah I got the fight team Of course I remember That he was supposed to join our Tottenham team And Maranakis came in and said Absolutely Yeah, he took him for the size. He ain't going nowhere. I know.

And fair play, there was last couple of games. He performed. He was phenomenal. He should be at the World Cup. I was, you took the words out of my mouth. Most goals by an Englishman in the Premier League, how is he not on this team? Exactly. It's a shame.

Sometimes it's if your face fits or if the club's too big, maybe, maybe because Nottingham Forest, where the place before, no. But they had Elliot Anderson. They took Elliot Anderson. Oh, there you go then. I know my stuff. There you go. When you're performing like that, you've got a go. And it's a shame really because,

really because it's one of those I was gutted for him honestly because there were some guys I'm not you know Jordan yeah like come on yeah these guys making it over him exactly I know Fodden didn't have a great year I know Cole Palmer but I feel like they could have used some of that firepower that's what we've been talking about in the house at the end of the day just because they were not at the best season so these players are big game players that's when no turn up and Cole Palmer he turns up when it really matters remember the euros exactly yeah'll folding turns up when it really matters and I feel like the way Gibbs is informed

You've got to take him for the chance. Even if he's on the bench, bring him on. But at the end of the day, all he has to do is keep proving himself. Did you see his face late in the season? I mean, as a fighter, you could probably relate. That was crazy. I was crazy. I was actually gutted because I thought that would preclude him from me.

He came back and performed again. No problem. He missed one game, I think it was. It happened to be the semifinal of the Europa League, which was a shame. But the guy is a beast. And so for him to be left off, did you watch yesterday against Canada? Yeah, I watched it. What's up with that second match?

Always second match for England. Even the first one is a bit touching goal with the first 10 minutes. But you know what England I like. They like to keep us on the edge of our chair. But I'm looking forward to the world court. Do you think we'll win? So I'm Canadian.

We actually have a big match coming up at three against Switzerland. I don't think Canada's going to win. Obviously, we did have a 6-0 thrashing of Qatar. It would be nice to see these guys make a run and they've looked good. But if it's not these two because I'm Canadian, I would love to see the three lines.

I'd love to see England. That's who I pull for I'm a little upset about the MGW thing I really wanted him on But I like Harry Kane And all these guys I kind of feel like it's up in the air Like Spain everyone thought

France I think France are the ones France are solid Everyone's been a little bit like One nice match Norway's been amazing I don't think they win But they've looked great

Did you see Norway on Monday with Holland I didn't actually see them But the team who looks in form And not a lot of people Are talking about them is Japan Japan Japan is solid A bit of a dark list

They're a good team, draw with those, and then the beat the other team the other day, like 3-4-0. They're looking good, man. And then on the preseason, the beat England and Brazil. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Are you going to try to catch a game while you're in the States? Yeah, I've got some tickets after the fight, so look good, go there unscathed. Which one? Which one?

I don't know. It's like a quarter final, so you don't know what two years, but hopefully some decent teams. England's playing here, like in Jersey on the day. On the same night? Have you heard from any fans that we'll go to both? I'm not, no. But like actually I have so someone's coming from home They're going to go there for the first half

Then come to my fight They're going to leave Yeah yeah yeah so that's a lot of our respect man They say it now but if it's a juicy game I don't think they will Is that like a family member? No, it's my good friend my good friend at home Okay that's a good friend right there

Going from Jersey to Brooklyn is a bit of a trek For real man respect I was wanting I threw it out there to people Because there's the darts this weekend here So if you're like an English sports fan You go to the darts at MSG Thursday Friday England during the day and then your fight.

That's a weekend for the books. Holy shit. That's a good. Hey, you read it down for them. Yeah. I want to know if there's someone out there that's doing that. Maybe it's your,

your mate. But what kind of support do you think you'll get? Like, do you know of people, a lot of people coming over? I do know a lot of people. I think, like I said, just walk in the streets of Brooklyn and New York.

I've got a lot of love. You're feeling it? Yeah, I'm feeling it. It's nice to see as well. At home, it's a mix of match. But here, it's, stop the car, the wave at me. It's great to see.

Wow. The energy's been amazing. Even at the open workout, so many kids was there asking me questions and whatnot. It was nice to see. But we'll see. Apparently it's his backyard. And there's nothing better than silence in the crowd. So that's what I'm looking forward to, if I'm honest.

Are you surprised by the reaction? Yes or no. Yes or no. So, like, as a kid, I used to watch these big American vites. And you always think one day I want to be there. And then, of course, the way social media is now, you can build your own platform. But having a social media presence to real life presence is completely different. So to walk the streets, like I said, and kids recognize you.

People just going on their bikes recognize you. It is amazing to see. But there'll be nothing better than winning and performing for them. So I do it for them as well. When you say touch and go back home, like are people yelling things at you? Oh, no, luckily, it's one of those. You probably get a little bit of slander online. And then when you go on the show, how can we get a picture?

You're like, you're probably one of those accounts. At the end of the day, that's what we love about sport. Everybody's got their own opinion. but it is a bit more hostile at home. People probably recognize me but not say something. We're here. They'll literally stop the car in traffic and... That's incredible.

It's great to see, so I like it. What do you make of the main event? Zayers and Boots. It's a great fight, man. It's a great fan. Fans are both of them. Boots, he's got a bit of my star, so I do like his flair.

His power is switching. But Xander, man, he's very good as well. So made the best man win. If I was a better man, I'd probably push towards Enis, just because what he's done, what he showed before, he looks strung at the weight

but you can't write off Xander, man fundamentally he's very good. He's very basic, but he's very good. And sometimes the basic stick you far. We were talking about this earlier. There's a science to when you take that leap, right? When you take that next step and that big fight is there any part of you that thinks

Xander is doing it too soon? No what? I know he has two belts to his name, but this is still Boots Ennis. Of course, of course. sometimes the one thing about all sports or all walks are life you need to bet on yourself yeah like you're the the press conference the top-ranked people's and we're trying to say no but he's the one that pushed that button when someone's that confident maybe you saw something that no one else or saw and um sometimes but then on the opposite end your confidence can be

a detriment as well maybe it's a bit too much what you could ask for especially at his age but i'm excited as a fighting fan i'm excited to say how it'll plan out But like I said, you can't really not bet on boots. It looks too good, man. It looks too sharp. AJ and Fury at the end of their careers, that's obvious. They're still big names. They're hopefully going to fight.

Who do you consider to be the next face of British boxing? And can it be you? Yeah, of course it can be me. I've got the skills. I've got the social media presence. All I need now is those names, them fights. But I'd say me, of course, Moses are two of my. I really like him.

I adore him. Yeah, he's very good. Who else? Hamza Shiraz as well. He's very good. And I can't think of anyone else, really. There's Connor Ben out there, but he's polarizing, right? He's one of those as well.

He's Marmite people loving people hate him. Right. But you bank junior is getting up there in age. Yeah, he's getting, that's what I mean. I'm in a very good, fortunate position. I think the three that I said, including myself, I think we could be the next crop, and I'd like to be the head of it. Yeah.

Do you think you're almost there? 100%. Like I said, governing body-wise, I'm ranked in a great position. And I said, as soon as I get a world title, why not? I think you need a world title to secure it, of course. You can't say about the wins in your resume. But I say, this time next year, I'll be one of the running faces. Do you think that you can get a belt by the end of this year?

100%. Like I said, I'm ranked in both governing bodies. So beat this guy. We're knocking on the door. It just depends what the people do, what fight comes next. But for me, 100%. Realistically, probably one more fight this year, right? Realistically, one more fight this year.

They probably want to go back home in Birmingham. That could probably be a final eliminator. And then probably start of the next year. We're knocking on the door. What was that like back in Birmingham fighting there? It was good. It was good. I got my house Rob Dapter, so it probably wasn't the best.

I remember that. But it was good. He was like, what the hell was up with that? This is a thing in Europe, right? They know you're away. Yeah, luckily enough we've moved now I've moved away from there But it was like my local area

I grew up there I loved the area I brought the fight back to the area Got a call and said Oh your lights Are on us my lights As soon as I heard that I knew Went back

Robbed the house But luckily there was nothing there Over than my belt My IBF belt And probably a couple of socks and pants So what do you mean there was nothing there I kind of had an inkling something What happened

So all my good things I took Serious Yeah yeah And not only that Before the fight Yeah yeah I took over like my real valuable belongings with me. Wow.

Where'd you take them? With me like in my bag. Serious? Yeah, because I just thought, I feel like, were you, were you catching it? Like,

were you sensing something? Yeah, for some weird reason, for some weird reason. Luckily, it was moving anyway, so a lot of the stuff was moved out of the house.

Okay. It was good. Damn. I remember you posted, uh, afterwards on social media. Like, you had a smile on your face.

Yeah, how were you in such good spirits after something like that? Weirdly, it kind of felt like I'm doing something right. In a weird way. I thought if they've come to do that when I'm fighting, you're on your way to do something big.

So for me, it was kind of a tap on the back to say you're doing the right thing. Of course it wasn't the best way. And it was a bit of a shame, especially for my area. I thought, come on, man. I'm trying to bring the fight back to the area doing this. But one wrong thing ain't going to be the whole area, so it's not that bad. Did they ever catch the criminal? No, no, a lot of people.

Oh, he did it. Oh, he did it. He did it. But at the end of it, I just let it go. Okay. And you've moved now. Yeah, moved out the area. Safe and secure? Safe and secure, man. This is a crazy. I know this happens to a lot of sportsmen over in Europe, the footballers and whatnot.

Especially footballers. It's crazy. Awful. It's crazy. You almost have to have someone like... Literally, my house is like fortnight now. I've got 24-hour patrol. Wow. For real. Yeah, man, but that's what you need. Is that unsettling? Not really, like I said, I think you've got this part of your career. Yeah. And you're moving the way you want to move. Sadly, that's what you have to do. What's the prediction for Saturday? From me. Yeah. Me? Yeah. Oh, a surgical beat down. I feel like I'm going to perform well. I feel like it was meant to be to be on this stage. I've got a good dance partner. He will talk a little bit,

but there's nothing more than beating somebody up who's talking a lot. So for me, a prediction is a win. It can go anywhere I wanted to go, but for me, a victory is like all that matters. Well, you hit him with like a Popeye celebration if you win. Maybe so, man. I might come with a tub of spinach after or something, man. Spike it on a head. Something like that. Some are lying out, man. But for me, of course, the only thing that matters is a win. That keeps the show going.

So, yeah. Can't wait for it. Thank you for coming in. All the best to you. Good luck. And it's so exciting to have you here in studio. It's amazing and so exciting that you're getting to fight in the United States. Can't wait for it.

Must see TV is this man. Ben Whitaker, the surgeon fighting on the boots, Zaya's card this Saturday on his own pay-per-view. Don't miss it. We'll be back in a moment with Cody Rhodes right after this. All right, back on the program. that was Emiliano Vargas. He's fighting on the boots, Zey's card. We've really covered it from all angles here.

We've had boots on. We've had Zias on. We've had Vargas on. We've had Wittaker on. We've had Eddie Hearn on. So that is a full 360. Still to come, Dartsmaster himself, Luke Littler, who is in town

for the U.S. darts event happening at the Infosus Theater, Madison Square Garden, the theater right next door. You know all about that. But this, my friends, is very exciting. It has been two and almost a half, two plus years to be exact, since we last spoke to the face of WWQB1, the American nightmare himself. What a pleasure, what a treat it is, to not only have him on the program, but to have him on the program, as he is, as far as I understand, backstage at a live event in Sheffield, England, as we speak.

Without further ado, let us say hello, right here and now to the one and only Cody Rhodes. Is he there? There he is. Hey, Cody. Long time. How are you? Hey, can you hear me? I can hear you just fine. I'm good. I am backstage. All right, perfect. I'm backstage in Sheffield, Sheffield, England. We got a good old live event going on right now. It's a lot of fun. Okay, this is fascinating. We don't usually get a chance to speak to guys when they're backstage at an event. And so can you tell us, like, how far away are you from actually walking out there? I am likely an hour and 15 minutes away from walking out to defend the title against Gunther with Sammy Zane as the special guest referee. Hour in 15 minutes. Is this a nuisance for you? Would you rather not be talking to media an hour and 15 minutes away from walking out?

Not a nuisance at all. And you pointed out it has been a long time since we've had any discussion. So I think it's the perfect opportunity. Also, you said QB1, I didn't say it, you said it, so I'll roll with it and I'll pull that thread. That's the part of this gig. That's the fun. You'll miss opportunities like this when it's all said and done. So it's not a nuisance at all.

Are you kidding? I'm happy to speak with you. I appreciate that. What do you do? Like, you know, I love talking to fighters in the locker room right before they walk out. We usually get like 60 seconds with them as they're right. wrapping their hands. They're in a, you know, in a certain spot mentally. What is your ritual? 20 minutes out, 30 minutes out, 10 minutes out, you're about to go out there and perform in front

of thousands of people. What are the things that you do to get ready? I like to consider myself and probably one of my, I hope it's a strong asset I have is I am the master of time management, which is one of the craziest things that you have to learn when you come up on the road and you work for WWE and you're doing all the things that WW will require a view. So I always have it mapped out in my mind. We have what's called a two-hour block, even though we're cutting into that tonight, which is great. But two hours out, anything that is supplemental to an actual match or promo, we can't talk about it. We can't discuss it. If it's a calendar issue, you got to bring it to me after I leave the ring. In that two hours, particularly after I tore my peck, I have to make sure that I'm

Stretched, fully hydrated, a big on potassium intake, because the last thing you want to do is get to midnight after a show. And then all of a sudden, every muscle in your body cramps up and jolt. So really boring stuff like I'm belaboring right now, stretching, hydration. A big thing I learned from Randy Orden along the way was about all the, all the proper techniques. You get your bands. you get your pre-workout, everything, just so that you're out there and you don't feel like you left anything behind,

if that makes any sense. It makes a lot of sense. I love that insight. Are you the face of WWE, Cody? I would say the face of WWE is whoever you as a fan and not aerial you as a broadcast journalist or someone in the media scope and a fan of wrestling yourself,

but specifically you as a fan, whoever you deem the face of WWE is the face of WWE and the beautiful thing now is the candidates are more than two, maybe even more than five. There's a lot of people with a great following who you see all

their merchandise all over the shows, but also you can hear their reactions, not just in the arenas, but amongst our hardcore fans who are out there watching everything we do. So to me, the face of WWE is, whoever as a fan you think is the face of WW. I am glad if any fans think that,

and I treat that as a big responsibility. Okay, so you turn the tables on me there. Let me allow me to do the same to you. So who do you think is the face? That's tricky, and I don't want to insult anybody, but I also don't want to not answer your question. So could I do a grouping? Could I do a grouping?

Sure. You know what? Actually, I've changed my mind. I'm not going to do the grouping because confidence is a huge part of what you do. And particularly when you have the chip, when you have the WWE championship, which is still the richest prize in all the game, I'm going to go ahead and say it on your show as someone who's played darts with you before. I am the face of WWE. You feel that in your heart. I do believe that you feel that, but I think sometimes it's hard for people to actually say it in your position.

I think it's, I don't know if I feel that in my heart. I know that there are times when it's so ironic to me, particularly my family, having fought against WWE with Jim Crockett promotions, my own personal journey about leaving and then coming back. There's such an irony in even being WWE champion for the better part of the last two years. I think you're safe if you say Roman Raines is. You're safe if you say Ria Ripley is. If you say CM Punk is, Liv Morgan, if you say those names, those seem to be safe names. WW is in really great hands right now because the roster is so experienced and so connected with our audience, which I can hear Oba Femi is walking to the ring right now, and I can hear the people doing the Oba chant with him and that alone.

Oba's fresh. Just that happening is a beautiful thing. 20 years ago this month, June 16th, to be exact, you had your first match. It was a five-on-five tag match in OVW. you were Cody Runnels at the time. Do you remember how you felt? Do you remember the emotions? Do you remember what you were feeling inside as you were about to embark on that first match? I remember being really concerned about being in the right place,

you know, what's discussed, where you're supposed to be, being in the right place. And I do remember having a little bit of wisdom bestowed upon me earlier. And it might have been punk who told me this. But I remember someone saying it's okay. okay if you forgot everything. Just open your ears. It's okay if you forgot everything. And that's not always the best strategy to go into the ring, but I think in that case, being surrounded by my peers who would cover for me if I didn't know, it was a good strategy to have because I was able to experience

it. My first matches, first matches in general at OVW, God bless Danny Davis and Jim Corned and everybody who even put OVW together for us, Al Snow. My first matches there were prized, prize memories. When you say it's okay if you forget everything or anything, how much, like for those that don't know, how much is actually laid out? Like, is it literally move for move when you're that early in your career?

That's a real, it's a real, WWE Netflix, Unreal type question. I'll give you that. The answer is actually rather simple. When you have a dancing partner who's, you know, best in the world, there's somebody who's done this for a very long time, or who's incredible with experience and years and years of experience,

you will talk about it so little than people think. It's almost as real as real can get when you're in there with somebody who has that experience. When you're in there with someone who's relatively green or new, that's an area where it's a little bit more of A to Z. And I don't want to ruin it for anybody. Everyone has their own behind the curtain, how much they accept, how much they don't. but when you have someone who's new, you've got to do the best by them.

You have to showcase their strengths and hide any weaknesses. And that's what years and years and years of cars and bars with wrestlers. Sorry, this guy's ringers on, whoever left us in here. I'm going to turn that off. For whatever it's worth, we don't hear it. Oh, well, that makes my day. All right. So just all of that, when it's someone new, you've got to really map it out A to Z.

Are you a fan of Unreal? I am. I am a fan of unreal. I actually, this is going to sound silly. I don't think a lot of times when it comes to behind the scenes, not documentaries, but behind the scene's current stuff, I have a difficulty watching it. One thing that I've revealed, so it's no secret anymore, I really have a difficulty watching Hollywood's take on pro wrestling.

I lied through my teeth about seeing the wrestler. in the Ironclaw, I remember thinking, well, if Kevin Mon Eric's behind it, then are with it, then it's probably in good hands. I have a difficulty seeing that because I grew up in it, and it's not always accurate enough for me, per se. But unreal, I think they've done an incredible job. Yes, they're showing things behind the scenes, but they're also showing you the people behind the scenes.

And the number one thing that gets people interested, that's not your athleticism in the ring is who you are as a person. The very first scene of Unreal, the very first scene when I finally sat down and watched it, I was shocked to see is my daughter and I putting an ornament on a Christmas tree. That, A, I have a home movie and B, that's who I am. That's why I do it, particularly now, my two children is why I do this at all. So I like that it connects you with who the people are. And I sent a message.

This is rather recently, so forgive me, I sent a message to everybody who is involved with Unreal, particularly leaf fitting, and just said congratulations because I think it's a natural evolution of what we do. And for those who say we're giving everything away, and for those who say everything's already been given away, it's not. That's not the truth. There's still plenty of you don't know and there's plenty of you don't want to know. That's the challenge for me as a modern performer and competitor to show you something while not. showing you something else. It's magic 101, you know? By the way, speaking of the family, happy birthday to your wife, Brandy, I believe it was yesterday. Thank you. So I know it's hard to be away from the family. There's the post from you. It can't be easy to be away, but you're out there

as QB1 doing your thing. As we said, you're at a live event as we speak. You have actually talked, I've heard you talk about, you know, the live events, how important they are and maybe wanting a little bit more of them. What do you think is like the perfect, you know, there used to be a ton of house shows. Now there are less house shows. You go on these European tours. You see the hot crowds. What is what is like the sort of perfect happy media in there as far as enough shows out there for the world and the fans and the guys and gals and also you guys getting the proper rest that you need at home? Well, I think everyone's getting plenty of proper rest. Okay, so they need to go back to work. Enough of them. Yes. Go back to work. But I understand

that we can't run it like we ran it when I was here initially because not only that might be running it too hard, that limits our ability to cross over. You know, Nick Con is an incredible leader. And Nick Con is someone, if I come to with a movie project, that helps WWE and helps me as a character. It's not just an instant no. It becomes a discussion. It becomes, how can we make this work?

Is it outside of WrestleMania? Does it help? Let's go and do it. And you can be fresh when you come back. We don't need to run as hard as we used to, but these live events, particularly in Europe, but there's a series of them coming up in the United States domestically as well. These are the best as far as a wrestler, in my wrestling heart, I enjoy these almost as as as much as a WrestleMania main event because this is your time to connect with an audience,

to look at them, look in their eyes, see them, spend time with them after, bend the rules a little bit because you're not on TV, have fun. and for those who get to watch it, and say you're on a show that CM Punk is on, and he's pulling the wagon, well, you're able to go out there and try stuff. Certainly when John Cena was made of inning against Randy Orden and Jeff Hardy was up against Umaga,

that meant that me and my cohorts, guys like the Miz during that 2008, 2009, we could go out there and try things and learn because there is no way to learn to be a pro wrestler. There is not a system. There is not any way to do it. So if there's someone trying, to figure out how to do it. The only way you can do it is in front of paying customers. You can't do it

in front of a studio audience, even. Paying customers is what it has to be. And this is a beautiful thing to be out here doing it. That's why I'm in such a good mood. I really love these and I look forward to them a great deal. And I am on the bandwagon. I know, no, but not everyone else is, but I am on the bandwagon of let's get back to work. Okay. And the rest doesn't stop for you. I'm Obviously, this weekend, night of champions this Saturday, June 27th, 1 p.m. Eastern here in the United States on ESPN, you'll be competing, obviously, in the main event against Gunther and Sammy Zane. I urge everyone to check it out live from Riyadh. I did hear AJ Stiles say recently on his podcast, Cody Rhodes needs a break. This guy is doing a lot. Did you see these comments from AJ? And if so, what is your response? I actually didn't know AJ said that. That's a, I mean, he, I think it's okay to say now when I wrestled AJ, I. After WrestleMania 40, I jumped to do a program with AJ Styles. We wrestled at Backlash in front of wrestling's greatest crowd.

And then we had another one in Scotland. Just AJ Styles was incredibly generous. And he wasn't even on the way out, incredibly generous on his kind of his final tours that he was doing with me and what I needed to be doing. Should I be at the monitor? should I be giving a speech at the end of the shows, all the things that no one could teach me other than someone who had been there before, and that was AJ. So AJ very much fills a big brother role.

I think it's safe to say from the outside, Cody should take a break. It's been advised across the board. But also, let me put it to you this way, Ariel. There are guys who do take breaks, and I'm not mad at anyone who takes breaks. and they get to go and, you know, get in incredible shape or go do a project or get healthy, whatever the heck it is that they're doing.

They get to do that and they come back and they're fresh and that they get that big reaction on the first night. But then it settles back into what it was. If others are doing that, and I heard this from Bobby Rood, and I hope he doesn't mind his name being mentioned here, well, then it's my job to be the guy who's always here. then it's my job to be the one who doesn't leave you. And if that means that things can get a bit stale on occasion or maybe a better way to put it not stale, if that means things can get a bit expected, then that's still a safe place to be. And I liked his outlook on it.

And that's really been my outlook the same, is I need to be the one who's here all the time, until someone else steps into those boots. So you don't think you'll ever have one of those sort of limited schedules that we've seen from some of the top guys, I know you can't answer for yourself in 10 years, but is that appealing to you in any which way? Maybe it is, and I don't know. I'm not trying to be, yeah, no, right now I just don't think of it that way. I think very much of the business that we're in. I mean, WWE is doing things that's never done before, and Triple H and Nick Kahn have led it into a brand new sphere of crossover and

the largest, you know, you hear the three R's, the ratings, the relevancy, the revenue. I want to be part of all that. So I don't think too much about a limited schedule, but you said 10 years. I don't think in 10 years I'll still be, I do think it does take a toll at a certain point. And I don't think in 10 years I'll still be going. I think there'll be another, another QB1 of WWE at that point. You think it'll be done within 10 years? as far as in-ring competition and i don't think that's breaking news anyone um turning 41 in a in a

week and i feel the best i've ever felt as an athlete but i do think in 10 years i i will no longer be wrestling bell to bell no what about five years i think five years would be a uh you know um five years sounds good five years fine five years sound good like if i was to sign a new contract, maybe it would be for five years. Okay, so like, do you and your wife talk about this? Like, by 46, I'm done or by 45 I'm done. Have you set that age yet? I think my wife is a little too smart for me to try and give her that, that, hey, but once I do this, I'm out, or by X, I'm out. I think she knows the nature of the game and knows perhaps what are some of the goals still left in me to do, and not just goals that are,

self-serving as much as there's so much I'd like my my girls to see of this world and what we've been able to do. So I can't fool her with a, hey, I know we'll be done by X, but the best is she was a ring announcer. She was a chief brand officer. She knows this world. So she knows, I said it's a goon through in the ring the other night. She knows I'm addicted. And it's a good addiction to have. So I can't fool her with any fictional in-dates, and I don't want to throw any out. But also the kiddos, you know, Liberty's five. And by the time she's 10, 11, 12, I don't need to be falling down anymore, at least not like this. Has there ever been serious talks since you came back to get her involved in an angle? Like, we've seen her from time to time, but like to really

fully bring her back. I think people talk about it. I'd say semi-serious talks about her being brought back for things here and there. I mean, we saw Mama Rhodes get included in things from time to time. When you bring real elements of your life and my character is really rooted in a real person, then that always makes for great television. And sometimes it can get a little too real. I think Brandy grew up very fast because of the nature of her experience in the wrestling business.

And I always try to make those moments for her when she does come back, a reminder of how great the wrestling fans can be. Because it's easy to forget how wonderful they can be. And really, the last time we saw her with WrestleMania 40, just to be able to walk out there with me. own it before, you know, the company goes into the stratosphere and then this new era begins, this triple H era begins and with me and the position I was in. That was a, those are the type of moments I want her to be around. I certainly wouldn't be opposed if she ever wanted to do something on her own or break into it. But she's, she's got that kid's store in Roswell, and that's all she talks about.

We talk about Pinkerton's Kids Boutique, far more than we talk about me wrestling, Gunther, in Sheffield, England, which is something she's passionate about. So I love it. Much respect. When you think back to April and WrestleMania 42, your match, the angle, everything involved that Randy Orton match so scrutinized and talked about a couple months removed now, how do you feel about how it all played out? Hmm.

I said something. I'm hoping I said this out loud so that it's, you know, not to say I don't want to give you breaking news, but I also don't want to say anything rude. I think I hope wrestling fans can understand that behind the scenes for me it was probably the most proud I'd ever been of how I dealt with anything.

It was probably the most calm I'd ever been on the day and probably even though my eye was shot afterwards it was probably the most calm I'd ever been leaving the ring because there were a lot of new factors companies change directives change that's part of every walk of life every type of entertainment

and i really just wanted to take a page out of the guys who had been mentors for me i thought a lot about my dad and i thought a lot about hunter and how they would deal with something that was unique you're wrestling the guy who you've got you know almost 20 years of history with but then there's this unbelievably uh bold pat mackoffy character with such a crossover of people that and doing so great on ESPN. And then there's jelly roll. It was just coming off winning these Grammys. I just wanted to make it work for the night and for everyone to feel, you know, that we had given them our best efforts.

I have, looking back at it, I may be thinking too internally about it, but internally I was so proud because it was, you know, you're dealing with a lot of big names and potentially a lot of big egos. and I wanted to do right again by the people who raised me in the business and, hey, I'm going to make this work. And not just make it work. I'm going to make it sing if I can. In retrospect, you wish you would have done anything differently? Oh, in retrospect, I had a bit of an outburst backstage, which shockingly didn't get reported because it seems like everything gets reported. And I knew right when I got to my bus. And when I say outburst, it's just like me muttering some curse words like on the Christmas story and yelling and, you know, knocking over some water bottles, a la Sammy Zane, nothing too intense.

But I remember getting to my bus and thinking, yeah, you outgrew that. That we're not, if you want, if you want a job, you know, in the wrestling space, nobody has a harder job in Triple H right now. There's never been a booker in the history of the business that has just been beloved and. revered the entire time. Nobody has a harder job and no one can do that job better than he can do it. And it's obviously something that interests me too. So I remember thinking when I got to the bus thinking, yeah, I've outgrown that. I don't need to be having temper tantrums. I need to be helping provide solutions. What caused that reaction? I'm not going to tell you that, Ariel. I don't get me interesting. I thought you were, I thought that's where we were going. I wanted to know.

No, no. I can't. Hey, you know what? It's probably such a non-factor. I think. I'm going to make a, I think it was an F bomb being dropped in the ring because I am genuinely a goody two shoes, whether people like to believe it or not. And there's really no room for those on our show because we get blacked out. Not only do you think you're saying something cool, but they black the feet out in the state so you're missing the show. And we got kiddos in the crowd. Their first experience with the F word does not need to come at a WB show. You just said that you have interest in that role that Polovec has. So does that mean that one day

you would like to do that? Not saying that you're trying to take his job, but you are younger than him and at some point there is going to be a succession. Are you interested in that at some point? That's a really tough question to answer because there's like a performative way to

answer it and then there's a bold way to answer it. I mean, that's a almost a thankless job. But then you get to be part of some of amazing hits and amazing moments and your body of work is what's going to speak for itself years from now. So being judged in the moment is one thing. Years from now, I've always had an interest in it. I had an interest in it when my dad did it and was a performer. I had an interest in it

at my time away from WWB when I was an executive vice president. And I certainly would be lying to you if I said I don't have an interest in it. I think I'm very interested in it. It's just a matter of where where the road takes me. I wanted my whole life to be WW champion. My sister told me be careful what you wish for because you might get it. I did. And now it's about, well, what goals are? You know, what's the left on the table? I want street fighter to be a massive success. I want to do more guile. But also I want to do more film. I want to do more TV. There's seats on, you know, on the Georgia political scene that are open. Is that a road? Or is this the road to stay with something I love?

so much like wrestling and anyone who's talked to me, including you and I when we've had private discussions. I love this. I don't know, I don't know how I'd say bye to it, you know. So it's something I'm very interested in, yes. You know, with that in mind, I'm reminded of something that I just saw Paul Heyman say to Chris Van Fleet, and he was talking about Paul Leveck, and he was talking about how his position has never, you know, has never had to deal with the type of stress that he is dealing with right now because, you know, there's the PLEs on ESP, There's Raw on USA Network, no, excuse me, on Netflix, there's Smackdown on USA, there's Netflix having everything all across the world as well.

It's so divided now, and there's so many different masters who want so many different things, and they all want their thing to be as successful as it can possibly be, and they paid so much money for it. And so when you get that type of, like, when you get that insight into what he's dealing with right now, I got to admit, like, I've sat here and said, I have the utmost respect. Like, every interaction I've had with Paul Leveck has been so lovely. Like, he seems like a genuine, great person, just like thoughtful. You tell him congratulations via text. His first response is,

how are you? It's very rare that people do that, and he does that every time. That shows the kind of person that he is. I've never thought of it from that perspective. And so when I sit here and criticize the product, I'm like, you know what, I need to think of it from that perspective sometimes because he is serving a lot of masters. Can you speak to that a little bit, the type of stress and scrutiny that he is under right now? Because it's never quite been like this before. I don't know. I don't think him and I have ever had a discussion where we broke down the, you know, various stresses or the various voices or the rigors of the task. You mentioned all the real estate that we need to cover.

But I have had discussions with them where basically, I think he has said to a core few that you have to not only be the best and be who you are right now, but you have to be even better. And you know who those people are going to be. he's the head coach of this team. So you can be the best coach in the world and you can make great players out of perhaps good players. But right now he has some great players. It's a matter of getting everybody on the field and letting us do our thing.

And many of us, for somebody who's apparently very stressed out, which I never see, one thing, he's big on what do you think? What's your gut tell you? that's one of the greatest gifts to be asked when you have the experience. I often always defer because I don't think I have a great gut when it comes to me personally as a wrestler. But the idea that, hey, you have the experience, not only that, can you go pull that guy aside? Can you talk to that girl over there?

We need this to change, these details. I think he's a marvelous leader. And I think people will probably criticize any discussion where that's said because that's what happens. And I'll actually say something. And Ariel, it's okay to criticize any product. We criticize it because we love it. But being here on the ground and being able to tell stories that we know where they're going

and to this event right here, I wish you could be here with me to see we're not getting really lost in the mud. We're not really getting lost in the muck. There's always going to be criticism. There has never been a great booker, Dusty Rhodes, Bill Watts, Vince McMahon, Eddie Graham. there's never been a great booker who wasn't greatly criticized. And I'm just very, I try to do right by him in terms of, that's the one guy who ever called me QB1, that when he said it,

I got goosebumps. And then I walked out when my music hit and knew what it meant. It meant cool, that's a great moment, but actually go be it, go do it. And that's kind of where I'm at with it all. Believe it or not, it's crazy for me to say this, but this is actually our first time speaking since before, WrestleMania 40. I can't even believe it myself. That's one of the greatest events that I've ever attended and one of the best matches, your match to the main event that I've ever seen.

I'll never forget it. And I'm just wondering, I know it's a couple of years now, but what comes to mind as far as like a moment that you will never forget? I'm sure there's 10, 15 moments, but an interaction, a conversation, something that happened before, something that happened after, you finally got to do it, and it was magic. It all came together. It was so damn great. Is there something personal that comes to mind when you think back to that night? Philly? Well, I've been since to watch an Eagles game and they treat me like it's my state, which is really special because they were, you know, their equipment managers. A lot of people work back house there who work for the Eagles were there at WrestleMania 40. And

going back there and being treated like I'm part of Philadelphia and that guy was born there is really, you have to see it. It's almost hilarious. I'm doing local access TV in the locker room. I was on the field throwing the football. I was just, this is a special moment. But there is one that day, the day of WrestleMania 40, that I tear up every time I think about it. And it happened and no one knew it happened. But my brother, Dustin, and you know, we have a, you know, I don't want to say we have a complicated relationship, but families are complicated. I certainly love each other.

But, you know, we wrestle at different places. and I don't always agree with what he does. I'm sure he never agrees with what I do with his brother stuff. But he just came on my bus and he just asked me, are you ready? And I, you got me, man, sorry. I just loved it. That was Dustin's career and how everywhere, way it went and all that, that was a moment that just felt so good to be able to tell my big brother

who'd been through this business and been through it hard, lived it hard, fought hard, all that to be able to just tell him yes and really mean it, yes, I'm ready. I'm ready for everyone here. So that's a good moment. I don't know if he remembers it, but out of everybody who came on my bus and the revolving door that day of luminaries and legends and the beautiful things and all the people who were involved with the match, you know, it's often called the greatest five minutes in the history of wrestling, that moment with Dustin made my day.

Why that question? Why does that question elicit such a amount of emotion? Because it wasn't his to ask. It was my dad's to ask. And my dad couldn't be there. So for him to, we have a unique relationship in that. I often try to think I'm the older brother, but that's arrogant on my behalf. I'm the little brother still. And it was his to ask that night. Are you ready? And it just reminded me so much. much of the old man. And I know people say, like, oh, he's there. He's with you. And, you know, when they're not physically there, it's, it's, it's, it's easy to say that. And I understand. I get what people mean. But Dustin was. And my mom was. And I actually said that at the press

conference after. Like the Mama Rhodes thing, I thought was so silly and ridiculous. And then when I look back at it, I thought there was no one more, uh, who had the right to engage with all of that than she did. She, she lived it with Dusty. And she also is a pro wrestler in her own way. Um, So that was just that, just a little moment between brothers, you know? It's amazing. What do you think your dad would have said about that match, the greatest five minutes in wrestling? Oh. I think, gosh, I'm trying to think sometimes the things he would say when a match really went into extra innings or the deeper waters.

And as a kid, I would get excited and I'm watching in front of him and he'd be on the couch. I think he, I'd hope that he. he'd say they've got them now because I used to hear him say that all the time. Oh, they've got them now. And that's all you ever want. You can do this and there's, you know, a nice house here in Sheffield tonight, but it's not a stadium size like Philadelphia or Las Vegas or even Saudi Arabia coming up for WrestleMania next year. But to be able to engage with them, especially with attention spans being what they are, we're on social, or on our phones, that's all I want you to come, enjoy yourself, forget, forget about the

bad part of the day or forget about what you need to do tomorrow. Just be plugged in with us. And there's no entertainment like WWB in terms of that live interaction with the crowd. It's the last of its kind. So I'd love it if I would have heard him say, they've got it now. But I'll tell you, had he been there, he wouldn't have cared so much about the wrestling match or all my weird, I got a stretch, I got a hydrant. I got to get my potassium, my bands, my oil. He would have just wanted to meet my daughter. And I think he probably, he would have just wanted to hang out with her because they have

such similar energy. You finished obviously one story that night. Before it's all said and done, those five years, do you have to finish the story with Dwayne Johnson? I feel like we need some sort of resolution there. Deep breath. Dwayne Johnson has become a, I think, it's safe to say he's like a bit of a fixture in my career and my life not just for his

flag in the sand moment that was russomania and then the emergence of probably one of the better characters that we've only seen a little bit of it being the final boss i don't want to give it an absolute and say that we do have to settle that but i think i think it's an unfinished story there's probably two unfinished stories that are out there and they don't always get finished. You know, wrestling is, there's a lot of fantasy booking. There's a lot of ways, but there's a lot that goes into it. There's a version of this where finishing that story is me trying to be as successful as I possibly can be, follow a bit of, if not a lot of his lead, break into TV in Hollywood and do something that he thought only he could do and do that to honor him.

then there's a version of it that's probably more appealing to a wrestling fan where the final boss shows back up and there is more there's more on the rose than a non-ending so i i can't answer that one ariel i think you'll probably get the chance to talk to him uh i can say as a wrestler we get a little trepidacious or we don't get super excited when people you know tease he might be there or leak it or drop something that's misleading solely because we're the ones here on the ground who are trying to pull this wagon. And you know me, I love nostalgia for nostalgia, but it's got to be current. It's got to be active. And right now, we need active. We need, we need, oh, Trick Williams is a prime example. We need that to move and grow. And it's, it's doing that right now. So, sorry if that's a answer. But you did say there's two stories. What's the other one? You said there's two stories. Oh, well, you'll have to, I can't give you everything here, Eric.

I have to ask the follow-ups. You know, you open the door. I got to try to walk through it. No, it's a good follow-up. That's a, you're very good at this. Very good. I'll let you go in a moment. I just want to ask you two last things. Number one, the spot that you were in after Cina's retirement match is one that I was envious of. You got the interview. You got the exclusive, right? You get to sit down there. You're not the performer. You're the guy asking the question. I did. And it was sincere, Ariel. He, he... He came to Georgia at 9, like 10 in the morning when he was going to filming against a very difficult schedule. That was a sincere first hot off the presses.

Oh, tremendous. Yeah. Were you nervous? Because there's a lot of responsibility there. There's a lot of questions to be asked. You know, I find myself in a lot of interviews where I'll mention John. And then I think, like, I wonder if he's tired of hearing his name from me. I hope he's not.

I think when you're around your mentor and it's a genuine mentor, someone who's always got something you can work on, something to get better to improve. You know, he tells a story all the time about how he was excited about an Anaheim crowd. And then Steve Austin walked in and said to him, oh, yeah, we used to have double this, but two nights in a row and walked away. And that was a moment of, okay, that's someone who's been there and done it. And that's a lesson. I'm going to take that as a lesson. I take everything he says is a lesson. I don't know if it was nervous necessarily as much as it was.

I had my ears open to listening because when they're gone, who tells you these things, right? We were talking about AJ. It was really, really great with me about how you're supposed to be as champ. You know, people forget, I never was. So I think I was maybe nervous, but maybe more just ears open and wanting one last lesson from the master, if that makes any sense. Okay. Night of Champions, this Saturday, June 27th, Riyadh, 1 PM, ESPN, on the app, King of the Ring finals, Obafemi against Jay Uso, Liv Morgan against Eoskai. Just curious, while you mentioned his name before I let you go, 30 years ago yesterday, the infamous Austin 316 promo at King of the Ring.

Do you remember watching that? Were you watching that at that time? If my math is correct, you're 10 or 11 at that time. Are you watching? I watched it live. And to piece your whole thing together, it is a great moment where my, my old man said they've got him now because of the in-house story where, remember, he got his, was it his lip or his nose busted? And then he goes and gets stitches and he comes back. Like, you couldn't have written it any better.

And the moment at the end, you can hear, it's not overwhelming. People think Austin 316 is all overwhelming. In the beginning, it's not overwhelming. They're just starting to pop up and be bold. You know, when he says, it means I just whipped your ass, and you hear that guttural, what the crowd was becoming. You knew, not unlike when the leg gets dropped at Batch at the Beach. That's a great, great moment. And I got to shout out Michael Hayes because Michael Hayes, Doc Hendricks, who's there with Stone Cold Steve Austin, he's the one who told Steve, hey, he mentioned some Bible passages earlier.

Had he not said that, who knows had Austin gone to Austin 316? Because he says that that night and the next day that T-shirt is printing. And the day after that, they're printing money. So it's a great moment. Anyone who likes wrestling's wrestling because Austin was always that. I mean, he's complaining when guys weren't hitting the ropes hard, which is like a pet peeve of my own. But yeah, no, that's a great moment. Unbelievable.

Let's not wait two and a half years to do this again. This has been an absolute delight. And I'm sorry if I made you too emotional before you're about to wrestle. I hope you don't feel like you're weak down the knees or anything like that. So I apologize. No, no. I think I'm past the point of I'm pretty sure people are convinced, you know, I'm often crying all the time. So it happens.

It's fatherhood. Maybe it's fatherhood. I'll take that. I love it. Thank you so much, Cody. Congratulations on everything, all your success. Good luck this weekend. Good luck tonight as well.

Really appreciate you squeezing us in before a match tonight. I'll say too, we probably owe each other two dart games because we did this remote. I'm ready for it. When I do it live, we owe each other two. And if I have the score correct, I got you on the last one. You did, you did. Well, I know you guys are coming in New York in just a matter of weeks. I don't know if you'll be in town, but we're ready for you.

Don't duck us. All right. You know me. Book it. I'll be there. Can't wait. We'll be ready. Thank you, sir.

You're the man. Thank you so much. There he is, the undisputed champion. Cody Rhodes, kind enough to join us literally minutes before he's about to walk out in Sheffield. He's competing this weekend, Night of Champions, June 27th,

Kingdom Arena, reed. You could get it on the ESPN app, obviously here in the United States, Netflix, around the rest of the world, and he's doing incredible things. Gunther, Sammy Zane, him in the main event, King of the Ring Finals, Queen of the Ring Finals as well.

Tremendous stuff. What a storyteller. That was amazing. Really, really appreciate him stopping by and giving us some time. Loved every second of that. and I wish I could do another hour with him. But alas, we are out of time,

and we have a very special guest joining us in studio. It's been about two years since we spoke to him as well. But what a delight to have the absolute best darts player in the actual world, joining us right here. And now he's competing at the Infosus Theater right here in New York City, Thursday, Friday coming up. There he is. The nuke himself is here.

Luke Lettler? I don't believe it. It's been a few years, I would say. Yes, how are you, Luke? Please have a seat. Thank you. How are things? Good, very busy. Yes, I can imagine.

Yeah, very busy. I remember we had you in studio about two and a half or so years ago. Yeah, different studio. Different studio, different location, good memory. How have things changed in your life since then? Are you the same guy, or has a lot changed in the last two plus years? Yeah, I think I'm the same person. Just with the added two world championship trophies and also the World Cup that I just won with Luke

with Luke Humphreys for Team England. But other than that, yeah, same old life, busy traveling, we're in New York again. Premier League title as well. You forgot about that one? Yeah, Premier League title, yeah. A lot's happened. But obviously when I come to New York, I want to win this title, and yeah, I've not won it yet. I'm curious, you beat Luke Humphreys in the finals of the Premier League, and then you have to team with him, which is a rare thing as far as sports are concerned. Is that weird for you? Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's weird for us because we're always traveling together.

we're always on the same flight and the same Uber, same hotel same practice room, same everything really and yeah I think it was just one of those things that we clicked together because last year it didn't go to plan we got beat first round but yeah to win the title on our second attempt

was good by the way what about World Cup the actual football World Cup what are we thinking about England right now you watch yesterday no I was on a flight okay probably for the best You heard about what happened, I presume. Yeah, I heard the referee wasn't too good.

Okay, for who though? But we wasn't, we wasn't. Yeah, nil, nil. Are you nervous? What are you thinking? No, I think we'll, I think we beat Panama, sat quite comfortably, yeah. You're going to go to that one? Yeah, I'm going.

Okay, what timing, right? Because it's at MetLife just across the river. Amazing. Yeah, and then I'll go to the boxing after. You're going to the boxing too? Yeah. So you are doing it because I actually asked the audience, I want to know if there's an English fan out there who's going to the darts,

the football and the boxing and it's you. It's me. Golly, who would have thought? I love that. You know, Ben Whitaker? Yeah, I've just seen him. He's unbelievable, huh?

Have you seen him? Do you see like the theatrics that he likes to do? The showmanship? Yeah, I love him. I love a boxer who can do that. I think we see boxes over the years they try and do that and get knocked out.

Well, Ben, he's so good. Tremendous. I remember the last time we spoke, you kind of like dropped a little nugget about a misfits fight. And there's another one now, but I'm curious, Like, did they ever reach out to you about this?

Did they ever take the temperature? I just think it's a bit of fun. But are you serious about it? Not really, no. And what's the other one now? There's another guy I saw that you called out, right? You know him? Why are you trying to get me to say his next?

No, I don't know if I know him. Is he an English guy? No, he's American. Who is he? Who is he? Chase. Oh, Chase the Moore, that's right. That's the big dog, though. Yeah.

What's your beef with him? No, it's just funny. Funny watching him. Yeah, he's not the greatest. He's not the greatest. Did you see him fight Andrew Tate? Yeah. What'd you think of that?

Not the best wasn't. We're impressed. No. Andrew was gassed after what round two or three, and he still couldn't get him out of there. Yeah. Have you hit Mitz before? I've done it once many years ago. What appeals you about all this?

Just the Misfits, in it? It's fun and games. I'm shocked that they didn't reach out to you. No, I think Mams has always spoke to me and stuff like that, and we always have laugh about it, but yeah, it's just fun in games. Okay. I mean, that would be big numbers. Yeah, big numbers for me.

Hell yeah. I mean, they would have to pay you at the time to do that. Oh, yeah. You'd probably have to put the darts career on hold to do a full training camp. Yeah, on hold, getting shored. Right. Yeah, oh, that too. Yeah, you're very smart.

You're very smart. You know, we just had Cody Rhodes on. I know you like wrestling as well, right? You still following? Yeah, I mean, two years ago, I think it might have been different days, but I went to the WWE thing and he'd done me a little video. That's right. That's right.

The headquarters there in Stanford, tremendous. Unbelievable. I wrote, so I love watching you compete, I love watching Ali Pally, all that stuff. I'm a huge fan. And I wrote that, oh, we're starting to see like the Luke heel turn back in January. And I know you know what that term means because of pro wrestling. Was that a conscious thing on your part? Yeah.

Did you do that on purpose? When you started to sort of play up being the quote unquote bad guy, if you will. Yeah, I think it's one of the things, and I said it against Rob Cross. I said it after the game, like, what's the point in? pay money for tickets and I'm coming to boom, put me off, whistle when I'm trying to win games. And yeah, that was, I think it was like from January up until the Premier League. And it was just, yeah, it was crazy. What was interesting about it was it felt like you didn't really do anything to elicit

that type of response from the crowd. And I know, you know, we talked about it with Ben. I've talked about it with AJ. There's something, it seems, about the British public media. I don't know what it is where they like to build you up and then tear you down. rather quickly. And so why do you think this is a thing? It's not as much of a thing here in the States, to be honest. Why is it such a thing in Britain, do you think? No idea. I've seen, like said, the boxers, obviously footballers get so, so bad. I think even David Beckham was really, really down at one point. I remember seeing some, I don't know what he did. He got the red card, and then they were like burning his jersey and everything like that. I don't know what sort of was

British. We just, I mean, for myself, I've just come along, obviously, winning and maybe people are bored to see me win. You think that's just it? Maybe. Anyone reach out to you, or did you reach out to anyone? Because it's not fun to be booed. No one wants to be booed. Everyone wants to be like to offer any advice on how to navigate throughout all this? Not really. I think it more, more manager and sponsors, just like sitting down and just like, if you want to celebrate against the fans, do it after you win. Don't do it during the game. Okay. Yeah. And why is that? Why that advice? It makes sense. Yeah. But why do they say that? Um, I think if you think about, I think after, say if you go one-nil-up and you start, like, giving it to the fans, then they'll just get on your back the whole way

through. Okay. So why bring that on you, right? Like, why deal with that? Just do it after. Distraction. When you've won and you can get off stage. I mean, anyone reach, I know in the past people have reached out to you, but in terms of like, hey man, keep your head up. Like, don't let them get to you. you ever get messages like that from people? People who have been there before. I can't really remember. Just like close friends. Yeah.

That probably means more anyway. Yeah, it was hard. Even throughout the Premier League, 16 weeks, and then 17 weeks on finals night. But yeah, I got the job done and won it again. The emotion that you showed afterwards was immense. I mean, you could hardly speak after you won. You were so emotional. Where did that come from?

Why were you so emotional? Yeah, well, like I said on stage, a few nights I was just sat in bed with faith, my girlfriend, and I was just like, I just don't want to do it anymore, just can't be bothered with the fans, booing me when I'm just trying to do my job, trying to win titles. But yeah, like I said, surpassed it, got past it, won the Premier League and now her in New York. And you said also in that interview that, you know, you started off a little bit rough, and so probably that doesn't help. Do you think you were getting in your head? Do you think you were allowing all that stuff to affect you?

And that's why you were playing, you know, below what we're used to from you. Yeah, obviously, it wasn't the best to start. I think after the first three, four weeks, I was like maybe six. I think I was bottom at one point maybe. And yeah, that weren't helping. But once I found my form, obviously, one loads of nightly wins and went to London and won it. And so the mental side of darts, like you have to be switched on, right?

You have to be so focused. Did you find in retrospect that you were thinking of other things up there that you weren't 100% focused on what you had to do? Yeah, I think, obviously, I don't really put pressure on myself to say in my head. You've got to win this game. You've got to hit this double. But there's a few times where I said, like, come on, you need to win this game. You need to start getting into that top four to go to the playoffs.

And yeah, I think it worked out pretty well. How close were you to actually taking a break? Yeah, I was very close, very close because it was just week in, week out of just constant fans, whistling, booing, and yeah, obviously it doesn't only get to me, it gets through everyone when the whistling.

Like I said, people are obviously coming from work, paying their money, and you're just whistling, it's not really nice to do, is it? No, why did you decide against it in the end? Just to get that winning feeling back, and obviously, to let everyone know that I'm not going anywhere.

I'm here to win titles and, yeah, I've won every title this year. It hasn't been too bad, despite all of that. Do you still want to take a break? No, not really. You're done with that? Really? It's out of your system. Out of my system.

Is there ever a part of you that's just like, I want to have like a normal life? I don't want anyone to know who I am, to bother me. I want to stay home. I don't want to go on a plane. Do you long for that sometimes? Yeah, I mean, I think after my first full year on the tour, I was like, this is crazy.

like the flights and when we go into like Germany and stuff we had to get like two flights just to get to one place but now obviously where I am in the rankings number one that's why I'm missing

in tournaments and having more time at home okay so like how many flights do you think you take in a year um and you're going all over the world yeah time zones I'd say easily

30 40 yeah it's a lot Yeah. And then you have to perform. You have to compete. At my best. Yeah. And so do you get an off season?

Like, how long is that stretch? Well, this year I've decided not to go to Australia and New York. Well, you are in New York? Not New York. Australia, New Zealand. Okay. I was like, I got bad news for you. You're here.

Yeah, so that's in August the second and third week. So it's like, probably say 16 days in Australia, New Zealand. the time zone over there is mental. Yeah, it's brutal. 10 hours, maybe 12 hours. So, yeah, not going there. I've got the whole of August off for the first time. Okay.

So we're going to go to Orlando. Oh, Disney? Yeah. Have you been before? Been to Orlando twice. No, three times now. Okay. And is there a part of you that, like I said, I would imagine you're walking around

in the States, it's maybe different than back home, less people are coming up to you? It's nice. It's nice just to be able to walk, do some shopping, go to the shops. Yeah. The area that you live in, I think, wait, let me get this right. Is it, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Is it Warrington?

Yeah. Is that where you live now? And so what is it like when you're walking around going to a shop there now? Yeah, I obviously, I get spotted. You can't do it, huh? Spotted quite a lot. Yeah. But, I mean, it's nice to get recognized for obviously what I've done.

But yeah, it was like anywhere else. It's a bit like, am I really recognized there? Like in New York. think I've been spotted a few times, but by the English. Yeah. So the Americans are, they don't really know. But I think tomorrow, tomorrow is sold out at Madison Square Garden. Tremendous.

And Friday is almost there. What is the difference if you can say between like an American darts crowd and a British darts crowd? Is there like a palpable difference in your opinion? Yeah, I'd say there's a difference. I'd say we're a lot better. Yeah. Who's the we? The British?

The British are better at the chanting and stuff like that. Okay. Have you seen the Scottish around Boston? Oh, tremendous, huh? Unbelievable. They're unbelievable, those guys. The Scottish, the Norwegian as well. Have you seen them with the rowing and all that?

What is going on? I love it. I love that stuff. Yeah, I think the Americans, you just can work on it. Yeah, a little more passion. Do you think it's just because Darts is just a little more new here? Like we're just not quite as into it. Yeah, I think we're into here.

I think we're into our fourth year now. It's my third year here. But, yeah, I think, obviously, Barry for matchroom and matchroom themselves, they want to try and get it big out here because the boxing's big out here. Of course, yeah. Obviously, UFC is really big out of air. But yeah, I think darts could be the next thing. When you're competing, especially at Ali Pally,

do you ever look into the crowd and, like, get sort of lost or laugh at some of the outfits or the signs? Do you do that? You seem very focused and on point, but, There's a lot of wacky outfits out there. Yeah, I think I always see the outfits. And I think one time, I think it was not, the world's just gone two years ago. I think Nathan Aspenal actually stopped just to watch someone down.

Oh, really? Really? He just stopped mid-game because people were in their crowd, and everyone was like, oh, and then he downed a pint, and then he got back on with the game. Tremendous. I wouldn't stop that. You wouldn't, you're, you're, you just go for it.

Is there any trash talk? Do you ever talk to each other? No. I haven't. Is that looked down upon? I've never really noticed a lot of talking. Is that frowned upon? I think we maybe obviously, we just want to get on with it. Obviously, if a player does some of it, then they might say, like, what are you doing or something like that? But I've never actually had that problem. Okay. I'm actually surprised that there isn't more trash talk, that there isn't any, because like you're right next to each other.

And in all other forms of sport, basketball, football, you're always talking to you. Yeah. And so I'm surprised that no one does that. Is there anyone that breaks those rules? I wouldn't say so. Not that I've come across. You obviously get dark players that are slow and obviously they can take it a bit too far. Okay.

You don't like a slow opponent? No. And what does slow mean? Like they take too long to take them off the board? Well, obviously, I don't know. A slow thrower is you can't do anything about it. Yeah. When they're walking up to the board and taking it out one by one.

Ah. You want them to take the whole lot like that? Yeah. Okay. Is that a tactic? Are they trying to mess with you when they do that? I'd say so, yeah. Interesting.

What about like when they stand too close to you? Is that a tactic too? Like is there like a designated area? And they're like, yo man, get out of my way. Like you're in my space? Yeah, there's a designated area. And I think at the World Championships, quite a few years ago,

Michael Van Gogh was to say that's, I think it's called the inclusion zone. so his toes were like over it and then the play with like, what are you doing? You can't do that. Oh wow, wow, wow. This is like mind games. I love this stuff. It's so intense, man. I never go in there.

You don't do that. No. Meaning you stay in the area. Stay in the area. Okay, you don't need to do that. You're the number one. Exactly. Are you the greatest arts player of all time? No. Phil Taylor? Phil Taylor. How much more do you have to do to pass him? You have to win all those

championships? Yeah, I think. 16 world titles, 16 match plays. Come on. Sixteen? Yeah. But I mean, like, the age has to come into the play, too, what you're doing at such a young age? I've got many, many years on Phil, so, yeah, hopefully I can do it. Obviously, you've been asked this question, you've met him? Yeah.

What's he like to you? The first time was just like, yeah, I don't know what to do. I think my mom and dad done most of the talking to him. They speak to him every day. And yeah, it was just crazy. I think one, there was one morning where I woke up. My mom and dad were out of the house And then he said, Phil's coming around soon

What? Just have a chat, a coffee And then they checked the cameras And he was just stood in my garden And then he asked my dad saying, I'm just in your garden So I had to go down and see him I was like, what's going on

What the hell? How old are you at that point? Like, is this pre-first world championship Or after? I think I was 17. Yeah, 17 after the first one So like midway through the year. And you're just chatting with him,

the goat. Yeah, the goat. In your garden. Yeah. What's he saying to you? just like how well I'm doing and obviously we talk about the travel and stuff and it does

it does kill you off and there's a lot of travelling but yeah we just we're dark players we have to get on with it do you think he is rooting for you to beat his records or do you think he wants to remain you know by himself at the top I think if I was fell I wouldn't want anyone to beat it

okay same as me the youngest person to win the world championships is 70 I don't want anyone to ever break that okay you know what I respect that because I feel like a lot of people would be like, yeah, you know, records are made to be broken. They are made to be broken, but obviously when you've got one,

obviously winning the World Championships at 70, and obviously I had the chance to do it at 16, but the year later I've done it. Yeah, I don't want anyone breaking it. Is there any youngster coming up that has a chance of doing that? Do you like, do you see anyone behind you? There's so many,

because up and down England now, there's just Dart Academies every week that people go to. Because of you? I've got my own Dart Academy. in Warrington. Wow. Yeah. What's it called?

Just Lutlil's Darts Academy. Okay, and what does that mean Darts Academy? Um, I don't know how many. There's maybe 70 or 80 kids that go there.

I think it's Monday, maybe a Saturday or maybe a Sunday and they just go there and practice and play a tournament together. And do you teach? I don't teach, no.

There's obviously people working there. Okay. Do you show up from time to time? Yeah, when I'm free. When you're the A, yeah, of course. But yeah, I think one, there's a youngster out there. Scottish Mitchell Lorry, his name is, he's very good.

How old is he? 15, maybe 16 now. Okay. One thing I always wonder about you guys, so you're competing tomorrow, Friday, MSG, theater. Do you train, like, will you practice today? No. What? Is that on purpose?

Or is it? Just chill out and enjoy it. So, like, not even to, like, get the flow or anything like that? I've not even practiced since the World Cup. Wow. Yeah. Wow, wow, wow. Maybe.

When was it last week? You haven't thrown a dart? No. So it's different than, say, like, a basketball player or footballer where you want to, like, keep... The next time you throw a dart, will that be on the stage or, like, will you do it... We practice. You practice. Yes.

So you will practice before. So tomorrow I'll go to the venue, go to MSG, like, maybe two hours, two and a half hours before, just to practice and sit down, practice again and then go on stage. Okay. And how long is the practice? I'll probably do, like, half an hour, sit down, half an hour. I won't practice for the full time. two hours, just have like mini sessions. And why is that?

Why don't you take the full two hours? Just be tired, don't you? Don't need it? Okay, the arm will be tired. Yeah. Do you want to be known as a heel? Would you prefer to be a baby face, as they say in wrestling? Or do you kind of like being the bad guy?

Yeah, I mean, I think in previous times, I've been getting booed and whistle, but I just win. So, yeah, I know how it feels, but I also know how to win under those circumstances. You play up to it. But I thought you did a great job. I loved the promo back in January. It was tremendous stuff. It was very pro wrestling-esque.

Only a pro wrestling fan would know to cut a promo like that with people hissing and booing. So I liked it. But then when you were crying, I was like, man, show the kids some love. I didn't like that they were keeping it up. I didn't think that was fair. And you just did an amazing thing. We got the win. You got the win.

Despite all of that. I was happy that you didn't let them get to you. No, you couldn't. You can't, not in this starts game. No. even though they're trying. They try every, every week, but you just got to do your job.

It's amazing. You're not just competing against the opponent. You're competing against them too to a degree, right? Not everyone is dealing with that. Yeah, you're competing against thousands and thousands. I thought Luke was really nice. Luke Humphreys in that moment. That's why we've got a good relationship with on and off the hockey.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was that the hockey? Oki. What is that? The stage? Yeah. Okay, so you see, I'm still learning. I'm still learning, Luke.

I know you have to go in a matter of moments, but I do want to ask, can you give me one tip? So we have our board right over there. You know that, right? I know you do this all the time, but it's like sitting in front of MJ and not asking him to shoot a free throw next to you. You know who Michael Jordan is, right?

Can you just show me like a tip? Can you give me something so I can impress my friends? Yeah. Yeah, you got something? Okay, wow, wow, guys, this is big. Luke Littler is going to teach me because I've got to be honest, Luke, and you know what? It's apropos. We used to do the darts at the other studio.

This is the first time we do the darts in the new studio. Let's go. What do you think of these darts? They shite? Yeah. They're total shite. Why didn't you bring us your darts? Oh, I forgot mine, but they remember back.

Ah, that's okay. Okay, so here's our line right here. They told me, and they're going to tell me when we could go. Here we are, Luke. Look at us. Okay, so this is our board. Okay, board? It needs a little bit of like TLC, right?

Yeah. Okay, okay, okay. Can you tell me, like, when I go up there, so this is our line. Is this long enough? I don't know where they came up with this line. Is this too far or too close? It seems okay. It's okay?

Yeah. I just shoot, like I have no technique. Okay. Is there something I should do? Well, how'd you stand? Oh, I'm literally right foot forward. Yep. Is that right?

I always point for the, like I always aim for the bullseye. Okay. Is that right? Um, not really, no. You guys never go for the bullseye. Have you ever tried like standing on your side? No. So you stand on your side.

You stand on the side? And then like, lean in. Oh wow, so you're on your tippy toes there on the left. Yeah. Look at that. Now are you trying to hit those marks? Yeah. You were trying for that.

Yeah. Of course you say that. So wait, so side here and left foot. Yeah. Like that. Yeah. By the way, is there a distance as to how far? Like, can I like literally be leaning like this or I can't go too far?

You can lean however. As long as you're behind the line. Yes. So like where should I, where should I aim? 20s. Like in that vicinity, the top or the bottom? It's up. Oh, Jesus.

Luke, look at that. That was awful off the board. It's been a minute. Look at this. I'm aiming for the 20 and I just got to the 18. Nah. Let me see you. Can you do it?

Look at this. Wow. Wow. Wow. Were you trying for that last one there? Yeah. It was a little crowded. Yeah, I was trying.

How do you do it, Luke? How do you do it? Tell me. Is it like what, okay, so as far as the, oh, this is tough, As far as the standing is concerned, what about the aiming? Is it just a matter of just knowing where to shoot? I think you're just like finding the grip. Finding the grip.

How do you hold it? Show me? I have. Look at that. Oh, look at that. You put it kind of like this, huh? Let me see if I could get it in. Wait, wait, there.

You could put it in that camera right there. This one, this one. Yeah, yeah. Is that working? No, no. Go to the other one. Go to camera one. Yeah, yeah.

Look at that. Okay, a little bit. blurry yeah all right okay okay it works okay okay this is it I feel it Luke I feel it right now me versus you best score three versus three okay who goes first join me go first yeah you know what I want to know what I'm shooting for I want to know what I'm going after here we go no pressure this is an Ali Pally what is that 20 one okay what do we have 41 41 how do you feel about that Luke that's not good are you nervous yeah

Are you a bit nervous? I could take down the champ right here. Number one, what happens if I take you down, Luke? What's at stake? I feel like I should be able to do this. Are you nervous, Luke? I suck. Come on, you can do it.

18. 18? 41 is going to be tough, huh? Oh, Jesus, Luke. I got a 1? 19. 19? So you need 23 or more.

23 to win. Where do I go? Where do I go, Luke? I need the double 40, right? the double 20. Yeah. I shat the bed. I bottled it like Arsenal.

Oh, I went to the right. You're so good, Luke. You're so good. Well done. Well done. What a pleasure. Which camera are we looking at? We're looking at this one.

This man is going to be, you know, I didn't want to beat you. I think that would have been a bad look. World number one, me beating you, that would be embarrassing. Camera three. Here we go. US Dartmaster. Is that what it's called? Yes.

InfoSys Theater tomorrow, Friday. He's going to be competing all the big dogs, right? Gerwin Price, Luke Humphreys, they're all going to be MVG? No. Sorry, MBG. You're not invited. And then it's football at MetLiferam, and then it's boxing at the Barclays Center. Well done. Busy day.

It's great to see you again. Thank you. Congrats on all your success. Don't let the haters get to you. Thank you. Over here on this show, we back you, all right? So if you're ever feeling down, just know that we got your back. Appreciate it.

The great Luke Littler joining us. We're going to take a quick break. Ian Gary is going to join us to talk about signing with Eddie. Hearn. He knows a thing or two about that as well. Doco Inoubert, we'll be back right after this. Okay, that was my conversation with Ian Gary from Monday's show and some breaking news for all of you. Ian Gary's going to join us in a couple of minutes. Why? Because there is more breaking news to talk about. We found out earlier today, and what a day it's been on the program. God, I love these days, especially a Wednesday like this. Are you kidding me? How blessed are we? we found out as Eddie Hearn was walking to the studio that Ian Gary is the latest after Tom Aspinall UFC fighter to sign with the matchroom talent agency.

Now, earlier in the day, Eddie Hearn broke it all down for us, but I did reach out to his team and asked if he could come on to talk about this with all of us because it's a very, very interesting story. This is my first time actually seeing all of this. Ian Machado, Gary, welcome to the family. only the best. Welcome to the family. Ian Gary. There it is. And I believe they played a video.

Here's Eddie Hearn writing. Welcome to the team. Let's get this show on the road. Is there like a promo that they played when they made this announcement, or at least that they posted? Is there a promo that we can show? Oh, no sound.

Okay, here's Ian Gary. We know he loves the golf. I'm going to do some play-by-play here. He's looking good out there. He's looking fit. Wow, look at that swing, by the way. Golly. like a young Rory McElroy, dare I say.

Oh, and there's Edward. He's some can of piss that, Edward, huh? Oh, with the Adidas quarter zip, huh? Oh, not bad. Okay. A little ball action there. All right. Oh, matchroom ball.

I like it. Oh, matchroom talent agency. You know yourself, Matum Talent Agency. All right, all right, all right. Oh, there's, look at this. Look at this. cinematography here. When did they film all of this? That is nice. So the latest addition to the Matchroom Talent Agency family, Ian Gary, are going to join us for a few minutes. Late addition to the

program. It's been some kind of week, some kind of day here on the show. We'll get to news and notes afterwards, so don't go anywhere. First we had Eddie, then we had Ben Whitaker. Cody Rhodes was amazing, emotional before the live event in Sheffield. And then how about the nuke? Luke Littler. you forget he's 19 years young. That young man is 19 years young and he's the best darts player in the world. We love the darts. We love the darts around here and I absolutely bottled it against him. I'm so mad of myself, but if I'm being honest, it's been a minute. We need to get the darts back in action. Cody Rhodes said he's going to be here. So let's see. Let's see if he's a man of his world. But what about that news? Ian Gary, teaming up with the matchroom talent agency. Very, very interesting stuff. Eddie Hearn here earlier. I threw out the Hail Mary to see if he'd come on for just a few minutes to talk about it all. He's kind enough to oblige. Here he is for the second time this week, Ian Gary. Hello, Ian.

I was not planning on this. I don't think you were as well. But I don't know if you know how this played out. Eddie's on the show earlier. He's walking in. They're telling me in my ear. He's got some news to share. I ask him what the news is.

And he announces. I had no idea that you were signing with the Matchroom Talent Agency. And so could I ask you, how did this all come about from your people? Yeah, I'm very happy, firstly, to announce that I've signed at the Matron Talent Agency. I think it's very big for me and my brand and I'm very excited. It all came about a couple of months ago. The interest came. They reached out to me and my team, and I love the idea of working with them.

I have a lot of respect for them and what they've done in the sporting industry. and the fact that they opened up a talent agency, I saw so many avenues to potentially grow my brand in England, Ireland and focus on Europe. And I thought it was a no-brainer. When they reached out, it was, I love it. I love the idea of it. What I thought was so interesting about that was

he has said in the past a lot of fighters have reached out to him, but he just said earlier what you just said, it's consistent that they reached out to you, they targeted you. And so when you initially got that message, what did you think initially? I was very interested that they were starting a talent agency. Ariel, I blew up in the Irish M&A scene very young as a young amateur. And that career shot straight to the UFC where everything went to stateside.

And I've been so focused and dedicated on my career that I haven't given the last. love or the time to the Europe or the EMEA side of the planet. And to have someone like Eddie and Matron with the respect that they have under that banner as a part of my team to help grow my brand outside of the sport to make sure that everything that I do inside the sport is bigger is a very cool, a very cool element for me to think of. And that was, it was a no-brainer for me. How long did that take from the initial reach, reach out to today? How long ago was that?

I don't know exactly. We had some back and forth with some conversations. I want to make sure that they, I'm very selective on my team. I'm very selective of the people I allow into my group. And I take my time. I never rushed any decisions. I sat down with them. I had some meetings with them.

I wanted to make sure that they understood me and my goals. and I believe when I speak to people about how I know I can be one of the greatest fighters to ever live, I know they feel it because it's the truth. I've sat in front of you and I've spoke to you and you can feel it when I speak to you. You know I'm 100% honest that I genuinely believe I can be one of the greatest athletes of all time that this sport has ever seen. And when I seen that he understood that and he bought into that picture, I was like, that's someone that can put me in front of that mainstream spotlight. That's someone that can help grow my brand outside of the sport to bring more value to me when I'm inside that octagon and when I'm outside that octagon.

And I love the idea of it. And I think it's a great addition to my team. Speaking of that team, I consider Lloyd Pearson to be one of the very best managers in this game. The fans don't know who he is because he doesn't do any media. I've been asking him for a decade to do an interview. He refuses. What does this need for your relationship with your manager, Lloyd Pearson, who I presume is still your manager? Lloyd doesn't like the word manager.

That's clarified that. It's not that you know that. He prefers agent. My apologies, Lloyd. No, no, that's okay. That's Lloyd's. That's Lloyd's little detail. He prefers the word agent.

Lloyd is my agent. There is in no way, shape, or form, and I want to make this abundantly clear. The relationship that I have with the UFC is. It goes through me. It's an advantage of sports. I'm very proud to work alongside Lloyd. I've learned a lot from him. He's someone I love and adore as a man, as a human, as a father,

but also as a profession in his job. He has been someone who I've learned so much from in this sport. And he has earned my respect. You know, he has been on the other side. He has been involved in deals with Hannah McGregor and Eddie Alvarez. He has been involved in the deals with Connemagher and Nate Diaz. He has been involved in some of the biggest shows this sport has ever seen. So I trust him, and I trust his word.

So he is my only contact with the UFC. And if Hunter and the UFC ever have a problem, they call me. There's no in between. I'm a man. I don't need anybody else to do my work for me. I hired Lloyd to make sure that he runs all the exes, all the O's, and do his job, which I have nothing but love and respect for him. This signing has nothing to do with the UFC.

It has nothing to do with my job inside that octagon. It has everything to do with outside of the octagon. I want Eddie and Matron Talent Agency to do as much as they physically possibly can to get the most amount of attention on my name as physically possible. Ariel, I'm about to fight the biggest fight of my life. I'm about to fight for a world title

against the number one pound for pound fighter on the globe. And MMA is still, it's the fastest growing sport in the world, but it's still a niche sport. I believe that Eddie can help me build my brand outside so I can have more eyes in the octagon so that more people know about Ian Machado, Gary. So that more people know and more people watch and more people see what I do come August 15th.

So all of this is tactical. All of this is calculated and all of this is planned, much like my fighting, my friend. And it is all to bring the most amount of attention to my name possible so that the fights can be as big as I possibly can make them. I would be remiss if I don't ask. Obviously, Eddie is involved in this feud right now, right? And some pundits have said that, hey, Tom has been put in the middle of it. He's being used as a pawn.

Did you have any concerns? Do you have any concerns that this will affect you in any sort of way, negatively? No. I don't have any concerns. because I made it abundantly clear to them when they signed with me that they were not getting involved in conversations with the UFC. That is between me, it's between Lloyd. You are absolutely correct. There is beef at the moment between Dana White and Eddie Hearn.

I don't care for their beef. I don't care for what their relationship is or what problems they have with each other. I am the number one ranked fighter in the UFC's Welterweight Division, who is fighting the number one pound-for-pound fighter for that, that strap, August 15th, that welterweight goal belt. What I do in the UFC, it has absolutely nothing to do with what I do outside of the sport and how me and Matron Talent Agency decide

to grow my brand and my image outside of the sport. They go hand in hand, considering that I am in the middle of both of them. The more that I do outside the sport brings more attention to what I do inside the sport. But the most important thing in my mind is what I do in that octagon. And when I go out there August 15th, and I get my hand raised against the best fighter on the planet and become the well-doubt champion of the world,

I want to be able to capitalize on that and speak to mainstream media and be put in front of platforms that I myself don't have access to. And I would like, and I have come into this collaboration now and this, this arrangement with Matron, because I believe they can elevate me outside of the UFC in my own personal image, in my own personal life. Their relationship, their beef has nothing to do with me. Okay. That's between them two.

Can I ask, did you speak to Tom beforehand and ask him what his thoughts were, how it was going so far? No, because I believe that me and Tom Aspinall are in very, very different situations right now. I believe that, again, I am fighting for a world title. I am fighting the number one pound-for-pound fighter on a planet, a two-weight world champion. I am getting everything I've wanted. I'm happy with everything that I have negotiated and argued and agreed with with the UFC. I'm not looking for anything else right now. I have got what I wanted.

I've got what I've earned and I've got what I deserve, which is that world title shop. Outside of the sport, all I'm trying to do is bring the most attention to my name because there's still a lot of people out there that don't know who I am right now. And I want to make sure that between every fight, before every fight, more and more and more and more people know about me and see what I'm doing,

because I have a decade of domination in this sport. I'm 28 years of age. I we have two current champions right now that are 38 years of edge maybe more we might have three I have 10 years in this sport to dominate and have world title fight after world title fight and the biggest baddest rematches the sport could ever see I'm excited for every second of it just do me a favor when that inevitably does happen and you blow up and you get all this stuff as a result of becoming champion just don't forget the little people all right you and you keep talking about like all the big What do you mean little people? You're the biggest MMA journalist for how? You know what? I'd like... There is nobody.

There is nobody as big as you know it. Don't forget us, all right? Come on, be honest. Be honest with yourself. You know this for so long. How many people fact check? How many people do their job correctly from a journalistic point of view and don't upset people in the meantime?

You have never in our relationship of working together, have never not fact-checked anything when you spoke about me. every single time you do your diligence, you operate correctly. And if only more people operated like you, we might actually believe the nonsense we see online. I appreciate it. Most importantly, though, congratulations. This is exciting stuff. I was not expecting you today.

Not expecting a second appearance from me this week, but it's good. It's exciting. I like it. Well, look, if you want this special appearance, then it must mean I'm doing something right to have me back within 24 hours. Yes, sir. I believe this is huge for my career. I believe this is a massive step in the right direction. I believe this is going to put me in front of podcasts and mainstream media that can help me grow and reach different fans, different audiences that I haven't got the ability to reach on my own.

And I think that is going to go hand in hand with enabling and bringing more attention to my fights inside the octagon. All I need to do, Ariel, is go out there on August 15th and get my hand raised and become the champion of the world. And this rocket ship is going straight to the moon. I don't doubt that. Good luck, my man. We'll talk to you soon. Maybe in another 24 hours. I don't know.

But for now, I wish you, thanks for jumping on. Hey, look, if I have something to want to drop on 24 hours, maybe I'll be back on. You're welcome anytime. Congratulations, Ian. We'll talk to you soon. Appreciate you, my friend. All the best. There he is.

Ian Machado, Gary. Kind enough to join us. Just a couple days after he joined us to talk about the fight. Now he's on to talk about signing with Matchroom Talent Agency, signing with Eddie Hearn. And he laid it out, and I'm sure everyone's going to have their opinion. And they are all very valid thoughts. How does this affect? He does have the fight.

And I don't know if strategic or not, but announcing it after getting the fight, probably the best move. It's a fascinating time. It's an absolutely fascinating time in the world of combat sports. I am loving it. What a time for this particular program, right? What a freaking time for this program. Is my friend Pizzi there? I'd love to talk to Pizzi.

Ah, he's some kind of pissed at Pizzi. Yeah, how are you, sir? How are you? Oh, my God. You know what? I didn't even realize. Petey, I'm so locked in right now. Canada.

You aren't even thinking about Canada. I'm not even thinking he got a three-clock kick up. Hey, no boy, even. Don't worry about it. Don't worry, but let's just give it a few minutes. Mess? It's two-nil. Damn.

That's what's it. Damn. Long way to go. What does that mean for us? Are we out? Second in the group. Okay, no, you have a win. It should be okay.

Wait, Bosnia is winning two and one. Yeah, but Bosnia has to score like eight goals to pass. Because we got the 6-0. DC's all over it. TC is all over. I'm locked in on this shit. So, are they not playing well? I didn't even cross my mind.

I was so locked in on all the stuff. Joe, I work for this show that's happening at the same time as the match. I wasn't able to fully lock in myself. You know what I feel you. I feel it. Have you having Luke Littler on Nying Gary and expect me to be fucking watching the World Cup. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. How about the nuke, Pete?

Yeah, what about the Luke? Fucking love Luke Littler. And you know what? Tell us. Tell us. Every time I see him, I'm blown away by him, because the scrutiny he's under, this teen sensation. And he's dead right. I wrote a thesis about how the British tabloid media construct idols only to eviscerate them.

And it's been happening for as long as time. He mentioned David Beckham, which is definitely a person. Ariel, I know you have used AJ as an example and you've got some backlash over that in the past, but I agree with you. I think this is very common. It's quite common all over the world, but especially in British tabloid media. I think he is brilliant. I agree with him. I think he's going to be Phil the Power Taylor's record as brilliant as Phil was, and I loved watching him when he was in his pump.

Luke especially, he's brought some much energy to Dart. He is the, I think Eddie Heard said this before, the Tiger Woods equivalent for that. sport. Like no one has brought more attention to it than him. And I'm glad that he's focusing himself, taking some of the opens off. As he mentioned to you, Australia, New Zealand, that's a lot of travel. They need to protect this guy. He's a diamond. You do not get many Luke Littlers in sport at all, never mind in darts. So they need to do right by him. He's only a young man. He's already taken on the world. And he has lots more left in him. So let him enjoy him himself and let him, let him take some time off to recharge the batteries. I do have to say, I don't know if, I'm sure you saw

But that interview that he did after winning the Premier League, it's hard to watch because you forget he's 19. Yeah. And he's crying. He's overcome with emotion. I don't know. He met his parents and such lovely people. And I can only imagine, like, as crazy it is for Luke, it must be crazy for them to have a child who at 16, 17, is becoming this national fixation. And as much as that was hard to watch for Luke, I always think about his parents there, like, look at this guy's life being.

beamed across the world, everybody waning in their opinions. And like, think about ourselves. When we're 18 and 19, how little we knew about the world, how little talent, how little we'd achieved in life. And then to be putting that under a microscope on the biggest stage in the world, I think he's brilliant. And I admire him. I admire how he deals with all this stuff. And I just want to keep watching it. I want to keep watching for the next 40 years, never mind the next 10. What about guys? I've been talking all week. Who's the English fan out there that's going to go to the darts, the football, and the boxing, and it's Luke Littler. He's the one that's actually going to do it. It's actually him, the one that's going to win the darts, then go to the football in the box.

He's going to win the darts, go watch England, Panama at Life, and then go watch Ben Whitaker. That's unbelievable. That is unbelievable. You know how you guys always make fun of me that I, that I mentioned that I was, you know, in attendance 1994, England, Nigeria. I've never heard that before. I'm sorry, yeah, what? You were, you went through a world game. It's not quite as much, but, but Pizzi's thesis on the British public and, and, and how they treat sportsmen is like right here in terms of the amount of British tabloids actually immediate construct not the Nigeria, Argentina, Nigeria. If I mentioned it that many times, could you get it right please?

It's right here. It's here. I'm here. He's here. What do you guys think about Ian Gary? I haven't had a chance to digest all of this. I think it's exactly what he needs, right? Tell us, why? The Irish thing, you know, I know he's not a big fan of me saying it, but he's pretty much just said it there himself. he is not cut on in Ireland

and for whatever reason that has not happened Eddie Hearn is a guy who has a great track record with media there he just so happens to manage to promote the biggest sports superstar in the history of the island who happens to be having a massive fight

a month after Ian Gary could potentially win the wealth away title I mean I'm thinking of a few fucking media spots I could just jump it off the top of my head here that might help him I think that's a great idea one thing I will push back on One thing I will push back on. Eddie Hearn, you know, he was very critical of the boxing media,

not giving Dana White, you know, a fair, like you're not really pulling him to task when he came on and he talked about whatever it was, how many shows he did a year, and he was very disappointed in the fact-checking. One thing I'll say for Eddie Hearn is, I wouldn't be giving myself the old Barry H yet on Tom Aspinall. I would not be doing that yet. Fair enough. You say his profile is bigger than ever.

He's making more money outside the cage than he is in it. Well, has he been in it since you started managing him, Eddie? So, I mean, that's that's that. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. No, no. Like, please, please.

If this is all you're going to fucking do, that, you haven't done it. I'm expecting way more. I want you to succeed, Eddie. I love that you're here. But is that on Eddie? Is that on Eddie?

He hasn't been able to fight just yet. I mean, well, I think that's fair. please show me. Let's see it because I don't think this is a rory. The test is when he comes back. Don't be giving himself the Barry H. Don't be coming on the biggest animation

on the world giving yourself the fucking Barry H. It's fine. It's fine. But I know what Tom Aspin is. You said you knew. He's a guy who can change the perception of what the sport is in Europe. This guy can go on a heavyweight run. This guy could be the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time.

I really believe that. So don't come in here. and tell me you've knocked out a park. Oh, look, everything in the Tom Asimal thing, we've changed it all. His team, as he mentioned, Charlie, Andy, these people, incredible. They were already incredible. I need to see it take it to the next level. You know, and being on Mitzvitz isn't good enough for me.

I need to see more. And I love Tom. And I think he's brilliant. And I think he can go on to do all these things. But I want to see more from Eddie. Show the world why he's made the right decision out there because you still got the naysairs and you probably won't get rid of them. But when he gets his foy booked, I want to see it. Let me see it. Rick, I saw you wanted to jump in there.

No, I did not. Oh, okay. Pizzi was on the fire. Yeah, what do I need to do? Can I say, I think we could judge him. Oh, God. Look, McGregor showed and others that Volcanovsky as well, new era, new deal. And so Tom can't fight for the old deal that they're referencing. He can't because the deal doesn't apply anymore. And so now we're going to see how it's all going to play out. Hoket's comments yesterday, which I, look, worrying. Hokit is a troll at times. I don't know if he was trolling there. Maybe he was. Maybe we'll find out. But if that's the case, if they're going to, because I think we all agree, it's not going to be Hoket, Aspinall. If anyone's getting left out of the equation as a result of Hoket getting a title shot, it's Aspinall, right? It's going to be Hoket versus Gahn.

And so we're about to find out. Now, is Eddie going to be the one negotiating with Hunter Campbell? It'll probably be Andy Aspinall, right, on his behalf. But Eddie will be telling him what to do, what to say. They go back, they deliberate, they send it back, that sort of thing. They're not sitting around at a table. That's not how this works necessarily. But I guess we'll find out.

I guess we'll find out. No need for the barriades just yet. You felt like he was giving himself the bariades. I went there back and watched it to make sure. sure or was correcting what I was saying. I did ask him. I did say like, tell me, tell me. Because he said, because he said, look at what we did with Tom Aspin. And you said, let's hear it. And he said, he said, he said, well, he's making more money than he is outside of the cage and he isn't in the cage. Well, you're not yet. Yeah, not yet. Maybe he's going off of the last

fight. Yeah, maybe he's going off the last fight. Barry H. I was imagine then. Barry Hearnia. None of his business back then. Yeah. That's fair play Andy and Charlie. Whoop. Um, man. It, Hoke, it really hurts their leverage. Like, we must acknowledge that. Hokeet really hurts their leverage because much like, you know, we were talking about Derek Lewis at some point, stepping in and taking an opportunity for lesser money. Hokit is somebody who's on the rise who has not been, you know, here and making the kind of money

that the top guys are making. This is, this is an obstacle. This is an obstacle from, that prevents them from having the maximum leverage they could have. When it looked like it was Tom Aspinall and then a bunch of nothing else, they were the kings of the castle. But now it hurts the leverage. And so it will be interesting to see how Eddie, Tom, and

team navigate that. But at the end of the day, I don't think anybody's rooting for anything other than for Tom Aspinall to be back, the heavyweight champion be defending his title and unifying against Cyril Gond. That is the best possible fight. That is the best possible outcome for the UFC. That's the best possible outcome for Tom.

And now they just have to figure out as a team, including Eddie Hearn, and they get their worth to do that. I mean, the best possible scenario is right there for them. Tom, Cyril, Josh, Alex. Yep. Heavyweight has not been this interesting in quite some time, right? Yep.

Heavyweight has not been this interesting. When's the last time heavyweight's been this interesting? When John said he was coming to the division and then that was that. Yeah. And then he blew through Cyril and then there was nothing for him to do. Well, actually, there were things for him to do. It was Tom, but they never got it. Yeah.

The Hokit is such an interesting case. study and the way we cover Hokit and the way we talk about Hokit and the way we talk to Hokit like yesterday, if I may, my hope for that interview was that we would get the real Josh Hokit. And I think that's as close to the real Josh Hokit as we've ever seen in any interview, A, certainly in the UFC, I'm not talking about before the UFC when he was at Fresno stayed and all that. And B, my objective in that interview was to find out why. Why do you act the way in which you act? Why do you say the things that you say?

Do you regret saying the things that you say? Has there been any pushback from the UFC? Have you lost sponsorship? Is there a line? Why did you say this to Yiri? Why did you say that to Alex? Why did you say this to Ilya? Why did you make that comment in the cage?

What was the point? What were you trying to get? And, I mean, I see the reaction. I find it fascinating that on YouTube, the top comment is saying that I'm offended by the Michelle Obama comment. And then on Twitter, it's that I'm a maga sympathizer. And to me, that's like, oh, okay, if 50% essentially are saying you're on this side

and 50% are saying you're on that side, you're doing something right. I'm reminded of something that I've heard Joe Buck say many times before, which is he'll call a Giants Cowboys game and he'll go online and 50% of the fans are saying that he's favoring the Giants and 50% of the fans are saying that he's favoring the Cowboys. But I'll also see people

in particular media members and people in the public eyes, so I'll get these tweets saying, this is disgraceful, this is a new low for the show, the way this interview went. And I'll ask these people, like, did you watch the whole thing or did you watch some clips? And we know how they feel about this topic, because they're very vocal about this particular topic, meaning politics, Trump, the White House, the UFC at the White House. They make it very known how they feel about this. And so already they're coming from a place of bias because they don't like any of this. All of this doesn't sit well with them, which they're entitled to feel that way. And so the fact that they feel some sort of way about him being quote unquote platformed

on this show, which is a term that I don't agree with, I don't think that's a real thing that journalists should think of, because if you are allowing someone like Josh Hokka to come on, and I have him on, and I say, hey, tell me what you think about Savannah Guthrie's mom, or tell me what you think about North Korea, or tell me what you think about immigrants coming over to the United States. Tell me what you think about Venezuela. Tell me what you think about the Middle East, Mexico, etc. That, to me, is platforming.

I didn't do that. I never do that. I don't do that thing that journalists do when Sean Strickland is up there and it's open mic night. And it's like, tell me what you think about this and that just so we could get some funny comments and some clicks. I wanted to know why he acts the way he does in the cage, out of the cage as it pertains to fighting.

I didn't allow him to stray from that. That's not platforming. That's being a journalist. That's asking questions of someone. who I don't agree with everything he says. I've said this already. I said it after the White House card. But that's not what our job is.

Our job isn't to have people on the show that we always agree with. If we only had people in the show that we agreed with or liked, unequivocally, we'd have like five people on the show. It'd be like Arnold Allen and Corey Sannhagen every single day on the program. You know what I mean?

Like, I'm obviously generalizing here, but that's not the job. The job is to find out who these people are. And that's why I've said time and again, I'd have people on the show, I've had people on the show that have said bad things about Jews, Israel that I don't agree with, and I invite them on and we talk and we're civil and we're cordial and we're able to be professional about it. I know they don't like me or what I believe in and I don't agree with what they believe in, but we're still able to find some sort of like civil,

common ground and talk and find out the why. The why is the main thing that you all are missing out on. And so people are so used to the algorithm feeding them exactly what they believe in, exactly what they want to hear. And so when a show like this that they think they've figured out strays away from that, they're like, oh, this is a disgrace. This is a low.

This is embarrassing. No, no, no. That's you misunderstanding what our job is. Our job is not to feed your algorithm. Our job is not to be an echo chamber. Our job is not to report and talk about the things that you want to hear. That's what you think.

That's what you've been tricked to thinking media is. Our job is to talk about all sides. The good, the bad, the ugly. And then it's up to you to decide whether or not you agree with it, disagree with it, buy it, don't buy it, think it's a disgrace. That's what the job is. And so I feel like leaving that interview, I now understand what makes this guy tick. Why he does it.

Do I agree with everything? Do I even agree with the sentiment, with the thought process? No, of course not. I believe there's a line. I've said it a million times on this show. But I don't believe that you could only have good guys on the show or good girls on the show. That's not the job. The job is to cover the sport.

and he's a big time player in the sport. I don't view it as platforming or as giving someone, you know, attention. Excuse me, they fight for the UFC. They don't need my show to get attention. They don't need my show to be platformed. They're doing just fine without me, whether or not they come here or not. And so I don't feel like that's soiling the show or disrespecting the show or doing something that's wrong for the show.

My job is to ask everyone who is pertinent, who is newsworthy in this, in this, the sport that we cover or combat sports, you want to come on and talk. I want to understand where you're coming from. And that's even people that I don't like. I've extended that invitation because I feel like that's the job. And it's fascinating to me, honestly, like one day I can't wait to be a, I'd love to be a professor and I'd love to talk about these stories because I feel like people have forgotten what journalism is. There's different forms of journalism. There's photo journalism. There's video journalism. We've talked about this all the time. There's all kinds of different journalism. But when you're interviewing someone, that's,

That's a form of journalism as well. You have to come prepared. You have to ask certain questions, pertinent questions. And you could scrutinize the line of questioning. You could scrutinize. But I wasn't there to debate him. I wasn't there. You wanted me. All you people, the Lou DeBellas of the world, all you people wanted me to browbeat him, to scold him. You wanted me to tell him how you feel about all of this. That's not my job. My job is to not do that. He's not being sent to the principal's office. I wanted to know the why. I found out the why. Now it's up to you to react to it. But, you know, like even when I reached out to a couple people, I'll be honest. And they're like, okay, I understand. I understand where you're coming from. Think about it. Just think about what the job is. This isn't Twitter.

This is a show where we like to practice journalism and ask questions. And we like to find out the reason why these fighters who are all very flawed individuals who all have their different kind of idiosyncrasies and warts and they're not perfect. And they're probably the most like rough around the edges personalities in all of sports, dare I say. I'm not here to just have people on that I like or that I agree with. That's not the gig. And I know you're used to that in media in 2026. That will never be this show, ever. And if I ever do that, then please stop me because that's not what I want this to be. This can't be an echo chamber. It cannot. So I'm sorry if there are some people who are like offended by someone's presence on the show.

If we stick to the topics, if we stick to the sport or things that they're doing within the sport, not having open mic night about what they feel about X, Y, and Z. Again, Bryce Mitchell thing. I didn't ask him or even cared to hear about his thoughts on Sandy Hook. He took it there. I didn't want that. That's not what we're here to talk about. He never said that in the cage. He never said that out of the cage. He used this show as an opportunity to spout nonsense. That's totally different. Hokeet didn't do that. He did not do that. And so for me, I leave that interview saying, all right, we found out. It's up to you to understand what this is. to decide whether or not you buy it or not

or like it or not. So I just wanted to talk about all that. I find it fascinating. I love this stuff. I can read about it. I can listen to conversations about it. I love it. I absolutely there's no topic that I love more than this, this particular topic. Media, journalism, the evolution of it,

how it's changing in 2026. It's endlessly fascinating to me. Okay, just a few things, guys, before we go. What about Caitlin Vieira? She's signed with the PFL? There she is. Ain't that with journalism? Is?

It is. Jamal, I do wish you the best. Please come on. A lot of people taking shots at Jamal these days. Not I. Let's go. Burry the hatchet. Life is too short, right?

Come on, let's chat. We'll have a grand old time. What about Boots Ennis's shoes, guys? Have you seen this? No. Boots Enis's shoes. I want to see his shoes. Here we go.

Here we go. Oh. Okay. All right. Yeah. A bit of nasty boys nearly, isn't I real? Wow! Sags?

Jerry Sags? I forget the other guy's name. No, too far from me. All right. Nasty boys is all I have. It's not bad, by the way. What does that mean? What does I say? Grandma?

Grandma Sally, I think it's... Oh, okay. Whoa. What's that now? I kind of dig it. How much a pair of them going to set your back, let's. Oh, glow in the dark. Okay, now we're talking.

I like that. Must be planning to go. late so. Oh, because the goal yeah, that's right. So, uh,

I saw an interview yesterday where someone asked if Fat Joe was going to walk out Zander and who is the guy that was going to walk out, uh, Jay Z.

Jay Z. Jay Z. Jay Z. Jay Z and Boots. Jay Z's not Philly boy. I would think like meek Mill or someone like that, right?

That's a Philly guy. Shang Gillis. Shane Gillis. Speaking of gear. Schingulous. That would be incredible. He's walked out, he's walked out of Dudo

at a BKFC. Same thing. It goes, fight fan, yeah. He's a big fight fan, yeah, a big UFC fan. Petey, we do have some shorts for you for your birthday. We were thinking of copying these McGregor Money Shorts. I keep them.

You think he's actually going to wear these guys? Not me. I can tell you that much. I promise you that much. I'm hoping not. Well, what is this? Because usually they make a big to-do about the shorts. Wait, are these actually the ones?

Some a-o-ish-ish-like. How much? How much? They're like 600 bones, right? Looking forward to see them on G.C. in Vegas. They're like 120. Oh, wait, okay. 600 bones is the bones.

You want to see GC in those shorts. Those 600 bones is the belt. What about the belt? Rather than me. What about the belt? You know, can I say, I miss the old belt. This is the old belt. It looks like a version of the old belt, right?

Of course, but it's the same, it's the same design. Yeah, yeah, the same. It looks like St. Patrick puked all over the old belt. Yeah, I got to say, you guys were like, this is pretty cool. I think it's ugly as fucking soon. Nah, I think it's the same. Class. I think it's class. Class is the word you're going to choose.

You took the word out of my mouth. Out of everything you're going with class. Yes, yes, yes. It looks like an Ed Hardy teacher. Had sex with St. Patrick. And they had this belt. Okay, that one is 600, right? That's 600, yeah.

Bagon. Wait, so what's up with the shorts? Those are the real shorts? I don't, I don't think so. They're available now. Cup or no cup? Yeah, there's a cup in there. There's a cup. That's that Brian Ortega cup.

Oh, 2-1 Canada, guys, 2-1 Canada. All right. Promise David. Wait, wait. Were they down 2-0? 2-0, yeah. They were. Wait, they scored-David-old, but this motherfucker.

Wait, wait a second, PZ, they scored nine minutes ago. Why didn't you tell me? Wait, but how's in your little... You were having your little soliloquois there. I didn't want to be like, here, Ariel. Stop talking about the haters for a second. Promise David. Just got one back for the lads.

You know yourself. You know yourself. All right, fine, fine, fine, fine, fine. What about old Plinyo out there? He's got a date with... Look at sharp, man. I mean, it's snapping. That jab is snapping.

Let's take a look at Plinyo here. Look at that. Look at that. Plinyo versus Luke Littler on Misfits? Pa-ha-ha-pa. I'm down. Beap. Yep, yep.

I'd say, yeah, not a pleasant experience taking a bunch of fives off, Plano. Yeah, no, hell yeah. What do you think he weighs right now? I don't want to fucking find out. I tell you that much. Yeah. It's like getting hit by a truck.

Oh, here's Michael Morales with a message. I think he's sending a congratulatory message to Ian Gary guys. Michael Morales taking to Instagram. For the matrium deal? For the match room deal? Yeah. Did you see this, PT? No.

Okay. Now in English, but I can understand me, my, I just want to say wanting to Ian Gary, suck it. That's not That's not That at all What did the top say? What did the

What did it say? What does the top say? Oh, I didn't even read it. Can we bring it back? What, the IG story? Yeah, what does it say? See. It says

I'm in English Maybe we should ruin this by Andy I just want to say Martin to Ian Gary Suck it. I know I'm not going anywhere at 170? Yeah, to Sabis?

What did he say? Oh, because he was saying, remember, I need to confirm what it says, though. Oh, Canada on the attack. Oh, my God, he just got his jersey pull. I mean, the Swiss are dirty, huh? I didn't realize they were... Not as dirty as England.

Not as dirty as England. I apologize. It was actually Canada. Should have had two red cards yesterday and a penalty against them. And all the headlines say about the brave guys at Ghana, you fucking robbed them England.

You fucking robbed Ghana of a penalty. they should have been given the opportunity. And guess what? Jordan Pickford shouldn't have been in goal to save the penalty because he should have been sent off already. You know what I mean? You've robbed the 66 World Cup.

You've rub that game. Let's see how this plays out. Would you say the game's in disrepute? Absolute disrepute. That's what I was shouting. I was in the sitting room and I was saying, Disrepute! Disrepute!

Games gone? What's happening? And I was like, look what's fucking happening. Look over there, Lion. Pizzi, did you pound like, like six energy drinks before you came on. Yeah, you're all right, man. You look good? This is your greatest performance of all time. This is your greatest.

So what is Elaine saying? I don't know how you's at like this. I don't know how you's that like this after watching the game last night. Game's gone. What does Elaine say when you're screaming in the sitting room saying, look at this, look at this, and she turns the TV and it's just nil-nill-nill and them just jogging

at the field? That's the man I chose to spend my life with. That's what she says. Yes. The eyes are nuts. The eyes are fucking nuts. She sees Ghana, England, nil-0-78th minute, and she says, disresput. Why do you say games gone? What does games gone mean? Because the game's fucking gone when you're not playing the game by the rules. Do you know what I mean?

What about Bellingham getting man of the match? Bellingham should have fucking got a yellow as well. The second half was an absolute fucking joke. Is there any bias at play here? Yeah, a massive bias toward the English national game from every referee in the fucking tournament. Well played. Well played.

This is Pizzi's finest moment. This is tremendous. Here's some sweat, lads. It's like going to be the hottest day of all time. Since the 1880s tomorrow in Ireland. Hades? Hey. 1880s, as in 1800 and fucking 80.

Around the time that the English forces into a fucking famine. Sorry, go ahead. Oh, this is great. Fair play to Bellingham. He did say he didn't deserve it. He said he didn't. Yeah, he didn't. He's right.

Fair play to him. Game's gone. Game's gone. Do we have any super chats, guys? Try following that up, intern Josh. You're up first. Intern Josh does not have a headset. I'll give it to a map for this.

You're up first, intern, Jack. There we go. Okay, so the gout trout says, I want to know everyone's non-fighter Mount Rushmore, the four most important people in MMA history. Mine is Big John, Dana White, Rogan, and Hawan. Oh, come on, stop that. I mean

Dana obviously Lorenzo Can I throw one out A Mark Ratner Can I throw out a Mark Radner For everything he did? Bob Meyerwitz For starting this whole thing

I know that pisses off Some other people Who am I missing? I'm gonna put Halwani on mine I got you on there Stop I got you on Buffer

No Who am I missing? Rogues is gonna be in the next Joe Rogies Yeah he was on there He was on there Dizzi's just gonna read

the one that they... The Rogan's a good shout, for sure. What about Ariel Hobani? Coker? Your headphones working with it? Coker? Dana, what? Really? Can you hear anything we're saying, right?

Yeah, definitely Ariel. Thank you. What is going on? Oh, Canada almost scored. What else? What else? Is Josh there? I'm here. We got Lazar Aston saying...

Come on. Why don't we go two for Josh, so we don't have to hand... That is awful. By the way, a dollar thumbs up. Come on, you're disqualified. No. No, thank you for the dollar. Thank you.

Thank you, Lazare. One dollar closer to our goals. What else? One Australian dollar, by the way. Oh, I said Frank. Sorry, old habit. What else, Josh? What else?

All right, we got C-Shank saying, isn't Eddie just getting ready to take advantage of the Ali Act Amendment? The alternative model, I think, doesn't prevent boxers having the same manager and promoter. He'll add boxers to once the amendment passes convenient. Maybe. I don't think that's accurate. Because to the point that Zufa has continued to kind of put out there, the Ali Act is not being removed, right? So those kinds of stipulations and things are still in place.

What they are opening it up to is league formats and having one organization having their own belt and avoiding the sanctioning bodies. I don't believe that anything is being amended in terms of that part of it. To Eddie's point, that is not how you cannot operate in that manner. Yeah. You know, Zufa boxing is not going to manage fighters. No. They will sign them to compete in their...

But to this person's point, will that be a thing anymore? Unless they were removing language, I can't see why it wouldn't. Right, right. But also... Can I'm the attack, by the way. Oh, tremendous.

To Eddie's point, there's different things in the UK, right? But because Matrim is an American company, as he said, and they do business in the U.S., there's... There's complications to that. But I don't believe that Eddie is trying to capitalize on that, as he said, right? That's why he's saying

I cannot do that. Jack, you're up. I can do it now, huh? Fucking, who's that? Who's that? Who's that? Who's the symbol is this? Yeah, R. 9. Come on. Look at this. Look at this shit. Big throne here for Canada, guys. Stand by. Throne into the box.

Heather? Ah! What a save! Did you see that? It's like we empowered. He was standing up with his back to them. The spirit of Ronaldo. Oh, geez. It's like we just... What a save! Did you guys see that?

A header from the back like this. Pici has zero idea what's happening right now. Can he even hear me? What does Ronaldo have to do with Team Canada? I have no idea. What else, Jack? Is it Jack or is it Josh? Jack?

Yeah, Ryan Smith. Can't read that last part. I pay $45 a month for DeZone and don't have to pay for the PPV ever. If you love boxing, it's the best deal. is it $45 in addition to the subscription or is it just 45? No, it's 45 max. They throw an extra 25 on top of all over here, the ultimate package.

I'm a proud customer myself, Ryan. Wait, wait a second, wait a second. Wait a second. You have to pay for the monthly sub and then 45 or it's 45 all in. It's like 20 on top of the, it's like 25 on top of the soap. So it's like, all to get a 45 a month here in the States. Yeah. Also, this whole like, I don't have to pay for the pay-per-views ever.

you're paying like $600 a year. So, like, you're still... Shut the fuck up and watch the fights. Don't speak that logic to me. I mean, maybe not the best deal ever. I don't want to hear that shit. We got Chassette here saying, England winning the World Cup in America

on its 250th anniversary of independence from that exact country would be hilarious. That would be hilarious. You know, if they can rig it again like they did in 1966, who knows, you know? Big Throne here for Alster Johnson. Two minutes left. Guys, two minutes left.

This is in Vancouver right now, right into the box. You know, if Canada ties this, by the way, they win the group. Yep. Who would they play? We don't know yet. And if they lose it, what? Second. So they still advance, and that would be a first.

They've never advanced before. Who else is in their group? Switzerland, Qatar, Bosnia. Oh, so Switzerland would be the number one. Yeah, yeah. Okay, got it. It is a shame that we tied Bosnia, but whatever. What else? What else? Who's next?

Garav Kumar for you says Rousseau wants to plug his new TNA book on your show, okay? Vince Rousseau. Sure, are you his booker? What's going on? We like Vince Rousseau. He was a lot of fun. Switzerland's head coach has a tremendous head of hair. Do you see this Pizzi? Who is the head coach? He's got the half, he's got the silver fox, but it's like half the head. It's crazy. What else? What else? Who's next? Josh?

I'm up here. got a bill is he bub uh think i want my best should i do my best jr impression here in this please yeah yes god michael ptzy from the top row bonds of eddie that's not bad what's the beef what's the beef with eddie pt no beef sorry this is journalism mate don't come in here talking about look what we've done for tom asple do more do more be better johnston should have done more there oh ulster johnson with the header you're the best you're the best fighter in the fucking world yeah you know what do you do oh What?

His profile is bigger? He was on Question of Sport. He was on the Michael McIntyre of Rorye show. Headlined how many events in his home country. All right? Don't be giving yourself the Barry H for that. All right? Don't.

And by the way, that's Barry Horowitz for those at home. Oh, no, Barry Hearn. Oh, another one. When we move on to the next topic and the P. It's the best. It's the best. Another one. Yeah, I just want to let PT go at this point.

But Benjamin Terrick 1840 says, Can we get Stephen A. Smith on the show to talk about journalism? Yeah. I don't know if he's joking or not. Is that a joke? I don't know. Dys ingenuous? I think it probably is.

Is that a penalty over there? I don't know. What's happening? What else, guys? What else? This is our last one. We got a pot of God saying... Ah, for fuck sake.

Thanks, pot of God. I like how your matter about people just giving us money. As opposed to asking us for something. Essentially donations. Yeah, that's even... better. Games gone, guys. Is it over?

What is that? Oh, final, yeah. I thought he was pointing to the penalty. It's over? Yeah, it's over. Should have got the ref that was doing the England game last night and told him that he also belonged to the Commonwealth. Hey, this is a big deal for Canada.

We advanced for the first time. Should have won the group. I think most people thought that they would finish second, right? Yeah. Or at least said a success would be second. Felt pretty spot on with Bosnia and... First World Cup win as well? That's massive.

So who do we get? Does anyone know? Or is it TBD? No, it has to be decided. Yo, the first group all squared away. Yo, that 6-0 win over Qatar is huge. Bosnia up 3-1. It's the G-D that separated us, right? It's the goddamn GD. Yeah. Wow.

Tomorrow, BITB, boys, what do we got? Oh, it's a big one. What do we got? What do we got? Oh, is it? All right. Tell me. It's a big and. I actually don't know. What do we got? 415 sub-B-I-TB. That's a number.

Dial it up. We'll be there. Baku preview. Oh, I'll tell you one thing we got. Oh, boy. The LFA Victor. Yes. Oh, Iron Lion.

It's going to be class. Island Lion. Jack and Josh, doing a full card PFL San Diego breakdown. Wow. Okay. Fight by fight.

The NFL of event this weekend? Wow. I'm going to tune in tomorrow. I hear the preview. I'll be all over to then. That's a tease right there, Pete. That's a tease. Yeah, it's going to be a big one.

It's going to be a big one. Ooh, South Korea, it seems, guys. I just love how we're having six different combos at all times. There's not one moment we've kind of been having the same combo. Guys, South Korea in L.A. We're screwed fucking T. Sonny? Sonny in L.A.?

All of this is up in the air. It could all change. You both came in second place. Can they face each other that way? South Korea is not done yet. This is what the Twitter is telling me. There's no shit. By the way, they're also saying no more home games.

No more home games for Canada as a result of finishing second. That makes sense. That sucks. Tough. That's tough. One guy wrote, Alfonso Davies let his country down today. Did he even play? Yeah, I think so.

You didn't play well? It felt like he let the whole of Canada down for you. Really? Oh. Why? What do you do? Red card? No, no red card.

Just didn't play well? You would have noticed that. I don't know. Yeah, you're right. Well, how do you let him down? down. Yeah, it's going to be tough to come back for Alfonso Davies. What do you do? You spit on the ref?

It's not going to be easy. All right. I tell you what, Jude Bellingham could have spot on the ref yesterday, and the ref would have said, thank you so on which, Jude. Thank you. This is my favorite show end of all time. Petey, we really watch two different games last night. Petey's saying, not that big a deal, right? Somebody gift that, please.

By the way. Give that, but add in something. Yes, please. do something with that what you will. By the way, it's it's knockout as of now, right? Your next game will be a knockout game. Oh, my dear. Oh, yeah. It's getting spicy. Oh, geez. I love it.

But I hope you don't play England. That would be fun, actually. We get smoked. Yeah, not for you. Who's USA playing? Even if you did get smoked, they'd find a way. They'd find a way. Well, this has been a great day, guys. I dare say the best day. What? The best day. It's been great.

It's been pretty damn good. We've had a couple of those days. We've had a couple of those days where it's like, one that comes to mind was the Action MJF. Yeah. Palacosta Day. That was a great one. Back to back to back.

Yeah, that was a one. The haircut. That was a crazy one. We've had a few. This is up there, man. Cody from the arena was something. Moments before walking out. How good is Cody, man?

God, I miss that guy. Tremendous. He really is QB1 in that regard for WWE. He is just so perfect. I got a text for corporate. Jake? Yes. He was like,

you didn't tell me Cody Rose was coming on. I got to lock in. Come on. We'll see him in studio soon, he said. We'll see. Yeah.

Okay. Shout out to his wife having a store in Roswell, Georgia. Shout out of Roswell. Yeah. Big pop back here.

He says you owe him two darts games. I'm popping big back there. I'm like, Luke, he just said Cody owes him two darts games. You didn't even use the segue at all. No transition.

Who me? Yeah, you. He says, right before Luke Lickler is about to walk through that door. You owe me two dart games. What am I supposed to eat? I didn't know if he's here. Oh, speaking of darts, we have the greatest darts player of the generation.

There's a lot happening. I was trying to, you know, stay on track. Bill Taylor reincarnate. Who? Cody? Yeah. What's what they say about him. Look at this guy.

He's in Ibiza right now. He's definitely took a pill. He's definitely doing something. I love when he does that. Pizzi in Las Vegas. He does pills? He's going to be something. I can't wait.

You have the wardrobe picked out already, Pizzi. Just his t-shirt. just just just just just just then it comes off Ronaldo shirt oh my god you know yourself BITB tomorrow

tremendous day today crack on Friday thank you to all our guests thanks to all of you back from your time by this a bit somebody