The Ariel Helwani Show - Eddie Hearn in studio, Dan Hooker, Carlos Ulberg, Paul Hughes, Channing Tatum, wrestling legend Raven

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

 Ariel Helwani starts the show with news from the combat sports world, including the tragic passings of Arturo Gatti Jr. and Suman Mokhtarian, plus Sean Strickland getting married (06:18).Carlos Ulberg returns, addresses Jiri Prochazka saying he turned down a fight, then talks about only having four weeks to train for Dominick Reyes, being front row for Alex Pereira and Prochazka at UFC 320, how a potential Pereira fight plays out, and more (19:27).Paul Hughes joins to discuss his rematch against Usman Nurmagomedov, the controversial scoring, referee Keith Peterson’s actions during the fight, his respect for Nurmagomedov and his team, and more (47:48).Dan Hooker is back to preview his fight against Arman Tsarukyan, explaining where his animosity toward Arman comes from, believing Arman is a rich “daddy’s boy,” responding to Arman’s comments about them being locked in a room, and discusses his 1 Minute Scraps promotion (1:17:39).Actor Channing Tatum joins ahead of the release of his new movie "Roofman," his life before acting, dealing with impostor syndrome, portraying real-life characters, working with Cung Le and their friendship, his love of MMA, and more (1:44:41).Eddie Hearn is in-studio to talk about his Netflix series, the recent signing of Ben Whittaker, his growing rivalry with Dana White, his potential interest in entering the MMA space, Chris Eubank’s claims of Matchroom delaying his ambulance and potential legal action, Shakur Stevenson’s next fight, and more (2:09:46).Wrestling legend Raven joins to discuss his upcoming documentary, whether he has any regrets, why it ultimately didn’t work out with WWE, not watching wrestling anymore, his hardcore MMA fandom, and more (3:05:04).       

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Eriya-Hawaddy show. Back in your life on this Wednesday, October 8th, 2000. And 25, hello again, everyone. I sure hope you're doing well. It's great to be here on a. Super, absolutely duper, stacked Wednesday. I mean, this is truly when I like to say something for everyone on this episode, something for everyone on this episode.

Perhaps never more have we ever had something like this before. Whoever. A true something for everyone. What am I talking about when I say that? And I'm in a pretty good mood despite yesterday's debacle at Yankee Stadium. On Air Jordan was there. we were up 6-1. We were up 6-1. We were feeling good. Vlady was literally flying in the air. He literally flew in the air. He was Superman out there. And then and then bad things happen. And I think bad things may happen tonight. But then I know magical things are happening on Friday. So all is good. All is good. No worry, no panic, no anxiety whatsoever. Because we have a tremendous show for all of you. In about 14 minutes time, we're going to be joined by perhaps the number one contender in the UFC's

light heavyweight division. His name is Carlos Alberg. He is G.C.'s new favorite fighter. Black Jag Ladies Night. He was in attendance on Saturday. He witnessed in person, front row, essentially cage side what Alex Perea did to Magamad on Kalayev.

He was standing there. Yere Prakashka was standing there. They're both jockeying for position, but in the end they may actually be fighting each other. And there's been some talk of them being offered to fight each other in Perth. It didn't happen. it may happen in 2026. He's waking up very early to talk to us and we appreciate him very much.

145. Big news. Start spreading the news. Big news is going to be here. In his first interview, since what happened in Dubai, the debacle in Dubai, that is what we're calling it. The Dubai screw job. Talking about Paul Hughes, who lost to Usman Nirmagamatov in the inaugural PFL lightweight title fight. I scored it 48 to 47 for him. Totally okay if you want to say it was 48 to 47 for Uspin. I am not okay with a 50 to 45 for Ustbender Mark Madoff or even a 49-46. Obviously 49, 46, closer to 48, 47, 50 to 45, insane. Brian Miner.

I called him Derek Minner. I called him Brian Minner. Brian Miner, pretty sure it's Brian Miner. Still no word from him. Anyway, we'll talk to Paul in his first interview since Friday. Looking forward to that. Hang man, Dan Hooker going to join us at 2.15. We had Armin on the show yesterday.

Tremendous stuff with Armand, Sarukian. Sometimes I call him Armin, but it's really Armand Tsarukian, if you want to get technical. And they'll be headlining the debut show in Qatar, not Qatar, November 22nd. What a time it's going to be. What a fight that's going to be. What a feud they have. I'm looking forward to this chat very much. Dan hasn't fought in a while.

I was supposed to fight back in March. Got injured. Got injured again. But he appears to be good to go. What about 2.45? They said we're toast, Frankie, but we're still the bread. One of the biggest stars in Hollywood. No, not Dwayne Johnson.

Channing Tatum, star of the upcoming film, Roofman, who is coming out, which is coming out on Friday, rave reviews, box office hit. This man has been all throughout Hollywood, has done it all, has seen it all. Of course, we all remember Foxcatcher. We all remember fighting, starring Kung Lee as well. We all remember the Magic Mike series.

I mean, he really is an A-lister. Would you say that Cheney Tatum is an A-lister, Frankie? Absolutely. A-plus-lister, some might say. A-plus-plus. I'm getting text from people being like, yeah, no, really. Channing Tatum, really? You could pull Channing Tatum?

I was like, yeah, we had Benny Safdi on last week. What are you talking about? We're cinophiles. We're a movie pod these days. Channing Tatum will join us. Then, how do you top Channing Tatum in the looks department? You followed up with Eddie Hearn, who's a pretty nice looking bloke himself, if we're being honest.

Fucking out. Yeah, that's right. He'll join us in studio at 3. And if that's not enough for you, one of the most interesting, dynamic, prolific, fascinating, complex, sophisticated pro wrestlers of all time. Scott Levy, once known as Johnny the Body, once known as Johnny Polo, but forever known as Raven. Quote the Raven, Nevermore. What about Raven? Raven's going to join us today on the program to talk about his new film, Nevermore, The Raven Effect, which is coming out in just a matter of days. It's a documentary about his life. And I watched it last night, and it's amazing. It really is amazing. Highly, highly recommend. So when I say something for everything, when I say something for everyone, am I telling the truth? I think I am. Let's count it.

A-plus, Lister, Hollywood star, arguably the best promoter in combat sports, potential number one contender in the UFC, pro wrestling icon legend, potential number one contender in the UFC, PFL superstar. I mean, you talk about something for a moment. And I'm happy that we have this show because today, it's been a bit of a dark morning. I don't mean actually outside, it's kind of dark outside, but I just mean like it's been a depressing morning. I got news last night, a few texts, wasn't sure what to make of it, and now it's starting

to come out. And then I saw a post from Chuck Zito, who was once the bodyguard of the legendary Arturo Gaddi. I've talked to you about Arturo Gaddi in the past, about him being one of my favorite fighters of all time, regardless of sport because he's from Montreal. I went to see him once live at the Bell Center in 2000 against Joe Hutchinson later became a huge star around the world Gotti Ward Atlantic City all that stuff tragically about 16 years ago was found dead still a lot of mysteries surrounding his death but over the last few years you may have seen on social media there was Arturo Gotti Jr and looking just like his dad hitting Mitz hitting the heavy bag just like his dad

started to get some reports some texts about a tragedy involving Arturo Gotti Jr. And then just before the show started I saw this post from Chuck Zito who wrote, it's with a heavy heart that I have to say

rest in peace to the 17 year old Arturo Gotti Jr. who was found hanging in an apartment in Mexico yesterday, the same way they found his father dead in an apartment in Brazil 16 years ago. there's senior with junior there's junior with mike tyson other outlets are starting to report it as well

this kid was unbelievable my condolences to arturo goddy's seniors mom sisters brothers and his daughter sophia this is this is beyond tragic i mean this is heartbreaking truly heartbreaking such a i mean yeah it's just awful awful the circumstances, the age, the promising future, the way in which it happened, just mind-blowing, really, shocking. And so my condolences to his family, a legendary family. Yeah, hard to process, considering what happened to his dad. And like I said, now some other outlets are starting to report it. Everyone's talking about it in Montreal. This is an awful, awful thing. So my condolences to the Gotti family. I don't know how you process something like this.

It was really getting to be very exciting to see him carry the torch from his late father, who's one of the most exciting fighters of all time. All action, all the time, never in a boring fight, gave us three legendary ones against Ward and others. Horrible stuff. Then I see this other crazy story that former UFC fighter

Sumon Makturion was gunned down in Sydney. Now you may recall last year or maybe it was earlier this year several months ago. It was last year. It was last year.

It was 24. There was footage of him seemingly being shot at in the parking lot of a gym, I believe. So it seems very strange. And then we get word here for multiple outlets, including the Daily Mail, saying that a man gunned down in broad daylight on a suburban Sydney street

has been revealed to be prominent former UFC fighter. Emergency crews were on the scene at Anulike Street, Anna Luke, probably Aniluk Street, in Riverstone in the city's northwest. About 6 p.m. on Wednesday, following reports of a shooting, officers located a man suffering gunshot wounds, gunshot wounds at the scene where he died despite being treated by NSW ambulance paramedics. He has since been identified as Sumon Mactarian reported by the Daily Telegraph. Mactorian founded the Australian top team UFC gym and survived previous attempt on his life when a shooter who was disguised as a food delivery driver

repeatedly shot at him outside his gym in February last year. He was not so fortunate on Wednesday night with police saying they believe he was the victim of a targeted attack. We believe he may have been out for a walk, but we were yet to confirm. Riverstone Police Area Commander Jason Joyce told reporters on Wednesday night. About 50 minutes after Mocturion was found, emergency services were called to nearby Riverstone road where a car had been set ablaze. Awful. What the heck?

I mean, obviously, there's something going on here. Yeah, one more little bit of context. Yes? There was an event in, I believe it was April, that was canceled because they were concerned that he was going to have a hit put out on him. Jesus. So clearly, you know, a lot of things to track here in terms of the gang activity and things like that.

But, yeah, there was an event canceled because they were concerned for the safety of everybody that there might be a hit on his life. So, yeah. Jeez, Louise. born in Sydney, fighting out of Sydney. His last UFC fight was in 2019. He lost to Sun Wu Choi. Prior to that, lost to Sadiq Youssef,

was on the ultimate fighter season 27 in February of 2018. Had not fought since that fight in 2019 in the UFC. Entered the UFC a perfect 7-0. Awful. So two really crazy pieces of news tragic pieces of news, shocking pieces of news, to start the morning. We did get some positive news regarding Sean Strickland yesterday. He's all growns up. He's getting married. Actually, no, he got married. Out of nowhere.

There he is. Sean Strickland. And what appears to be a very Sean Strickland-like wedding photograph. Well, time to grow up, I guess. And there's Drickus DuPless C writing, Happy for you, brother. Congratulations to you and your wife. Congrats to the happy couple. Mazel to the happy couple. Now, I didn't get a save-the-date for this one either.

I could have gone to Aljo and then Strickland's wedding, back to back. Congratulations. I didn't want to bring up one thing before we get to our first guest of the day, Carlos Elberg. I saw a lot of people commenting on our Conall McGregor take from yesterday. And of course, when, you know, when Twitter accounts clip things off, they don't show the entire context. My only argument was, I wish the fighters had a say. Obviously, I'm all for a clean sport, a fair sport.

I'm all for random drug testing. You have to have random drug testing in order to catch people. If people know when they're going to be drug tested, the whole thing's a sham. the only thing I'm bringing up is if they're going to have to tell the organization where they are 24-7 they should at least have a say in that

meaning that needs to be negotiated if they're okay with it I'm okay with it I'm not the one being drug tested and by the way worth noting UFC employees don't have to tell their bosses where they are 24-7 I understand they're not punching each other in the face but it is a little funny

the employees don't have to, but the independent contractors do. I'm bringing that up. So yes, I know about Wada. I know about USADA. I know what needs to be done to catch people, unannounced drug testing. We've been talking about this for a very, very long time. I'm just trying to explain that while they tell you that, hey, you know, they're independent contractors. They could do what they want. There are still some restrictions there, and you would just love to be living in a world where the fighters have a say. I also, the more I think about it, think this was very performative.

Someone wrote this to me, and I couldn't agree more with him about it. If you would have kept it to a 12-month period, the suspension would have been over by now. It would have expired because it was September to September. The fact that you did it 18 months and not 24 months

means that we're still in the suspension, so he's still, you know, technically suspended right now, but he's good to go for June. If they would have done 24 months, he wouldn't have been good to go for the White House. So this is the best of both worlds. Hey, we're catching people. By the way, let me know how many other people they catch. When's the last prominent fighter? There was a period there at the beginning of the USADA deal. Everyone was getting caught, you may recall. When's the last prominent, you know, fighter to be affected by this? and I've seen people bring up the timeline and you know this coming out when he pulled out of the

Chandler fight is impossible to know if they are related but I do think we have sort of figured out why it's 18 and not 12 and not 24 if it would have been 12 it would have been like hey he was suspended and none of you knew and then if it would have been 24 he couldn't fight on the white house card performative is the word of the week and I feel like that's what's at play here. But yes, I'm all for random drug testing, unannounced drug testing, of course. I just really think that when it comes to revenue sharing,

when it comes to these things, if the sport truly wants to be viewed as one of the big dogs as a mainstream sport akin to the likes of the NFL, the NBA, Major League Baseball, NHL, those sports, the stick-in-ball sports, which, by the way, the revenue that they are general, is akin. The chevy rights deal that they have signed is akin. It's top five now here in the United States. You'd like for them to have the same type of benefits, for lack of a better word.

The same type of voice. The same see it at the table. That's all I'm saying. That's my point. All right. now that that's out of the way. It is weird. People like, they clip it off, you're like, everyone's trying to dunk on you, and you're like, well, there was more to the statement. But I get it.

I guess we do that too, right? This is social media. I was on Bill Simmons show yesterday, and I said something about Mikhail Bridges. Now all my friends are texting me like, really? How could you say that about Mikkel Bridges? Well, I also said a bunch of other things too,

but I guess this is the way it goes. I'm very excited about today's show. We have a lot to talk about with all these people. Paul Hughes interview is going to be great. What is this, Ariel, you like using the IC analogy? What's IC? This is from Danny Alfaro. It just popped up when I looked at the stream.

It's a super chat. Well, Jones has the option to deny aspirinol the job. Why don't you mention that? If the IC denies to fix your broken fridge, oh, independent contractor, you can judge him for that? Same, same. Wait a second, wait a second. Ariel, you like using the independent contract.

tractor analogy. Well, Jones has the option to deny Aspinall, the job. Why don't you mention that? If the IC denies to fix your broken fridge, you can judge him for that. Really? Yo, this has to be the dumbest. They're not so easy to read, are there? No, no, we just have to give him his $9.99 back. I'm sorry. Give him his $9.99. No, Danny, please. Please take it back. Is there a way to take it back? Please, Danny. Take it back. Next one's on us, Dan. he could deny it. And as I said yesterday and the day before, the issue isn't, oh, now he wants to fight Pereira and not asked about it. It was because he was champion. And when you're

a champion, there's a time-honored tradition that you have to adhere by. You have to defend it against the top guy. And if you don't defend the belt against the top guy, you can't be champion. And guess what? He's not champion anymore. So now he can do whatever the hell he wants. There are no restrictions. There are no obligations. So it's a little different. You're missing the part that he was the champion and he was choosing to not fight the top guy. The IC champion. The interim champion. Anyway, great take. Thank you. Okay. Let us go to our first guest of the day. He was there in attendance on Saturday. T-Mobile Arena. He witnessed Alex prayers went over Magamad on Kalayev two weeks prior. He was in Perth doing the job against Dominic

Reyes. He is arguably the hottest fighter in the light heavyweight division. And I'm not talking about his looks. So get your mind out of the gutter. He's Carlos Elberg. Black Jag is here to join us. How are you? Carlos, how's it going? Good night, Robert. Yeah, good citizen. Got him early this, yesterday morning. Are you? Back from a big trip. Yeah. I was wondering, actually, like, is your body clock all over the map because you were Auckland, Perth, Las Vegas, now I think you're back home. You must be all over the gap, as they say. Yeah, yeah, I am actually. It's still, I'm still trying to find my bearings, but I think a couple days of sleeping hibernation will be, we'll get it. Yes. Well, it's important

for people to know it is 615 or 620 in the morning wherever you are right now. So I do really appreciate you joining us so early in the morning. How was Las Vegas? It was nice, man. I love a good trip to Las Vegas. I went to the slap as well. That was like a spectacle on its own. And I think it's one of those events where you have to be there to experience something like that. Because watching it, you know, just from the TV, it's, I mean, yeah, I took different notes from it.

But this was like being there live was different. So, yeah, it was nice. did you enjoy the slap being there yeah I mean because just just the I guess just the vibe there was quite

and it being a spectacle having you know just quite a a different feel to it so I did I did actually met a lot of people I met a lot of people there I think everyone that was going to the fights

the night after was actually there as well so it was pretty cool i think it was really smart it was really good of you to go uh for for multiple reasons i'm wondering was that your idea or did the ufc say hey we want you to come out after the win uh it was it was it was definitely my idea it was it was an idea that i had throughout my fight camp and and the reason why we took the fight as well so so i think all things considered there was a lot to think about before taking the fight with Reyes, which was a big risk as well. Okay, so if we can move in chronological order,

obviously you had the big win a week prior. Can we clear up one thing regarding Yeri? Yeri says that he was offered to fight you in Perth, and he's claiming you turned it down, and I think your team has a different side of the story because I did hear from Ash about this, but I wanted to ask you, your side. What happened there?

Yeah, I mean, it wasn't. As Yuri had put it, where I was trying to avoid him or denied the fight, I pushed it because I had an injury and I didn't expect the UFC to tell him that, which was all good. I had an injury and I asked if we could push it back to November because that would give me enough time to rehab my injury and get back and be able. to go back to the drawing board start from from from the ground up again uh considering it was a dangerous fight against someone where i didn't really need to you know i'm trying to look to go forward

in the end especially coming off an eight fight win streak at the time um you want to be going forward so it was it was we had to do a lot of thinking before we took that fight and um Yeah, we wanted to push that fight with Yuri to November. He didn't want to. He didn't take that, so he wanted to fight earlier, so that he could be in line for this title fight between Uncle Live and Peera. Yeah, so I, you know, I had to, we as a team had to think about it. and it being such a big fight on this side of the world

and the fact that it was such a there was such a big risk fighting Reyes on a three-fight KO win streak and yeah I thought that this would definitely be a key moment for us we had to we had to rise to the occasion I had honestly about four weeks of proper training in the lead off to this fight

and which was which was crazy for me because I really felt like I was just not not in it but not for it not for the sake that I was not wanting to train or anything it was just that I couldn't train so yeah just like anything man I mean we took it on and sucked it up and got the job done

in a big way first round knockout were you were you doubting yourself on fight week or on fight night because you didn't have enough time to train no man no i think when it comes to fight week that's when i i really lock in uh and and i think before i seen like when i did the the um conference with ray is in perth i wasn't lying when i said oh i'm not going to be training just yet It was really me kind of pulling a joke but being serious at the same time. It wasn't me trying to be cocky or saying that I didn't need to train for him. He's definitely a dangerous fighter with that chaos power. It was really me kind of just saying, hey man, I'm not able to train, but let me, I'll get the job done for real. I had confidence. I always have confidence whenever I stop stepping out again. And whether I have a week train or what, I know I'm going to get it done.

Certainly comes across that way. You know, one of the storylines that week were the ticket sales. And I've heard from fans there who explained to me that it was a big sporting weekend and there were a lot of other things going on because I think originally some people were trying to pin it on either the UFC or you. What was your take on all of that? Was that annoying that people were talking about that? Did you feel like it was any sort of slight directed towards you?

no man honestly I just I had my pure my vision my focus was all quite intact and and usually fight week I'm locked in so I don't

pay too much attention to that and and even though it wouldn't be on me anyway and yeah they did have quite a few sporting events and big ones on that same weekends in Perth as well

but not only that I mean when I got there the arena was packed and you know it was massive a big spectacle as well so I don't know where those allegations came from

okay well you certainly delivered and then afterwards you said something to the effect of like let's get on the private jet and let's go to Vegas just curious did they get you the private jet they didn't give you the five

come on you deserve the private jet car What the hell? Cheapskates. That's a long flight. That's expensive. That's an expensive flight. I didn't expect it.

I was just, you know... Listen, you shot your shot. Shot it, yeah. You know, you don't ask, you don't get it. So you got to put it out there every now then. So it was really interesting seeing you in the front row and then seeing Yeri in the front row right after his fight.

First, can I ask, what did you think of Yeri's fight, his performance? And were you thinking after those, first two rounds that he was going to be able to turn this around yeah i mean great fight from yuri very um very yeri like right yeah and it's it's definitely expected i um i definitely saw two rounds up from for kalil and the way that yri had come back was just exactly how you'd expect someone like yuri to to do uh and yeah i thought it was i thought it was big i like i had my pure sights on

the main event but yeah also very very impressed with what Yuri had done considering how dramatic it was and before the main event was there any part of you thinking like

oh man he's going to steal my shine here because this was so crazy no no man no no no I know I know that you know like it's it's just a matter of time where it's going to happen and I think it's it's that time now for me to to get in there and and take what's there what's left on the table

and yeah I mean he he come in and after his fight and as he should and after a great win if he hadn't then you know it's you look at him like what are you doing here but he walked in after his such a good win and he was which was quite weird enough as he is but that's all good as he stood right in front pretty much blocking a lot of us and um as as the main as the main event were walking out who was just there kind of standing in front of instead of standing in front of them as they were walking out which i thought was you know let the boys do their thing and and kind of sit back and and you know let them focus on what they need to but um he wanted to just stand right there in front of them as they were walking out to to prepare for battle so but uh

that's his go that's his take so it's all good um and yeah i feel that if if uncle live had had had the wind or got away with that wind then then he would have had that chance in there to to probably step in the octagon or he would have had that chance to go up against Uncle Lov. In that moment, there's also a famous photo now famous

a few days later of him like staring down on Kalev as he's getting this one right here from the broadcast. Are you annoyed in that moment? Did you feel like he was trying to overshadow you being there because you came from so far as the guy who just won? It was all kind of set up that way.

a little a little bit but now i mean like i was doing my thing man just doing my thing enjoying enjoying this show what it was and actually just soaking it all in on my own from the shadows and um and you know he's up with the forefront trying to trying to press his moment but i just do my thing and focus on me so the fight happens it's rather quick 80 seconds, he closes the distance, he lands an overhand right, and then it's the ground and pound, the elbows, the shots of the body. Were you surprised? Were you surprised that it ended that fast? Were you surprised Alex ultimately won? Yeah, surprised, for sure. Definitely surprised. But, but, surprise but not, right? He, he's the kind of guy. You can feel it too.

as he was walking in I was kind of just seeing where like how's he going you know where's his mind at words and he seemed to be on track and and locked in as for the other fight you could see some some ticks that weren't happening so yeah I felt like damn this could be it this could be the moment for for Alex and and he pulled it off man and and that was massive massive for for the for the for for perrera he's done such a great job um with that with that especially coming off a loss um again san caliver quite a dominant win so um for him to do that was was amazing the juxtaposition of your reaction compared to Yuri's reaction. Very interesting. Yuri was in the front row very emotional. And you, you know,

as you can see right over here, I'm sure you've seen this by now. It looked like he was actually even tearing up. He explained to us why on Monday. And your reaction is just kind of like, you know, golf clap, like, yeah, good job. Not going to get too excited here. Well done. Yep. All right, I'm next. Like, that seemed like the vibe, you know, like I got next. Am I reading this correctly? you are yeah exactly I mean he had to he had to give that reaction

and I feel that I feel that as I was saying earlier that if if Uncle Laif I got that win he probably would have had more of a chance to fight again for the title now that

Pereta's got the win it may slight his chances so I was you know I just sitting back and as expected something amazing could happen but um this could be my opportunity to to jump in

but not not get too excited about things too so um yeah amazing just an amazing job i think that i think that peheda whether he moves up to to heavyweight um or sticks around at light heavyweight he he's he's earned a spot to where he is doing such um amazing things in the company in the USC and just putting on great shows. Did you know that heavyweight was an option? Did you get a heads up that he might be considering

this or that he might talk about moving up? Did you have any idea or was it news like it was for all of us? You know what? Yeah. I mean like you look at someone like Bejera who has big aspirations and so do I. And if

you know, this is definitely the opportunity for him to to move up to heavyweight and to have three um bouts in and in each division or well about in each division so yeah this would definitely be the time for him to do that especially him getting older and um and probably looking at wanting to move on from the fight game from what i can read but without but wanting to get that heavyweight shot first or that title first so I yeah I felt I felt that you know he gets a win here he would want to move up for sure and you know just by watching um what he's been doing and what he's been saying in the media

those little uh those little gems that he's been putting out definitely reads that would you be disappointed if you don't get a shot against him if if you get the title shot but it's a vacant title shot not against him I'm sure you're obviously happy to fight for the belt but would there be a part of you that's disappointed it's not against Alex? Not disappointed, not disappointed. I know it would be an amazing fight. It's definitely been a dream fight that I've been wanting to take

against someone who's such a dominant champion definitely to fight someone like Beheada but it's not the names that I'm after. I'm trying to get that gold. So whoever it be, I think if they vacate that title, then I'd be willing to step up, and I know that I'm up for that title shot, that vacant title. So whatever they do, I trust that the UFC know what they're up to. So, yeah.

What do you think happens here? What is your gut telling you? What are you feeling at the moment? Because there's two options, right? There's Alex stays, and then he's either fighting you or he's fighting Yeri. You obviously have never fought him. Alex has beaten Yeri twice. Yeah, I don't feel like he's.

fights Syria third time. Okay, fair enough. I think there's when you need, yeah. And then there's, of course, he moves up and it's a vacant title and then it's obvious it's you versus Yuri, right? So what do you think happens? Yeah, I think that's the go. I think that's the go as they could put me up against Yuri for the vacant title or I fight Piero for that title. So either way, I think there's the two options that we have there. Which do you think, which are you leaning towards in terms of what obviously it sounds like your top choice would be the prayer fight of course he's the champ but what do you think actually happens what are you feeling at the moment honestly i do not know i don't even think the guys yeah that on that side even know as well so i can't give you the answer

but um yeah who knows no one said anything to us but but i feel like whatever happens it's it's it's it's in its right path for me to take it you think there's no chance if alix stays they go Alex Yuri? I don't think that's I don't think that there's a chance there. Nah, I don't feel it. Not just given he has two

big losses against Beheader, there's not any reason for him to take that third shot or for Peretta to give him that third shot. If Carlos Salberg fights Alex Pereira next, how does that fight play out?

Massive fight, man. big fight, that's a big one. But, you know, like any camp, it just means that you go on there and and do your work, man. I just focus on me and I know that God will give me whatever, you know, I desire. And yeah, man.

But I'm excited for it, though. I'm just, you know, just taking day by day. I've only kind of just settled in, kind of settled in back home. So I'm still kind of catching up to to myself and kind of the week's head have gone. Still finding my bearings after even when I was in Perth, I hadn't really been sleeping properly, maybe three, four hours max. But really trying to find the sleep schedule. And then I flew over to Vegas, same thing, two, three hours, sleep.

So, yeah, man, when I get my three, four days worth of sleep, then I think I'll be able to understand what's all happening. I'll sit down and chat to the team. But nevertheless, I think we're just going to be staying ready and stay fit. Yeah, because it's going to happen, man, pretty soon. You're knackard, as they say. I am knackard, bro. That's it. I could feel it. I can feel it. And I won't keep you much longer. I'm just curious.

You versus Alex, I kind of feel like I know the answer to this question, but because of the history with Izzy, is there any sort of personal element to it? They seem to be in a great place, the two of them. But Izzy's a good friend of yours, teammate. I'm just wondering if it goes any deeper than just fighting the champion between you and Alex, in your mind. no not at all it's just yeah just the fact that he is he is a good champion he's the man and like i've always said if you want to be the man you've got to beat the man and he is that guy at the moment so especially getting that win over uncle live who beat him after being such a dominant fighter and dominant champion so you beat someone like that then you take you that you take that ring what a great asset though to have in your camp if you do in fact fight him is he who knows him so well who's been in wars with him so that would be very interesting curious just if you have any thoughts if he does fight john jones who would you favor

in that fight that seems to be the guy he's talking about what a fascinating fight it would be as well what would you think happens well it's crazy man i mean like you can always like John Jones is definitely the man overall, the greatest. And that's how you know, I've always seen that. But when someone like Paheda jumps in the Arctic, and I think there's something different that happens. So especially even at his age 38, John Jones is also 38, I believe. But I think it just comes down to raw power.

And I know that Pahedah would want this. Him getting this third title in each division would be crazy. So it could be on any side, man. I honestly don't know. I'll sit on the fence for this one. But I'm rooting for the both of them. I really hope that Beheada gets his third title because that would just be massive.

He's a good dude. You know, he doesn't turn. talk or anything and he's I see my a lot of myself and and someone like him so he's a warrior and I really hope that he gets that the title but I also hope that I get to fight him too it's a very impressive thing to hear you say because if he does go up and fight for a third belt that means he's not fighting you anytime soon so to hear you say that is pretty damn amazing because obviously for your career it would be huge to beat him and to fight him so much respect when you say that you see yourself in him.

Is it just the way in which he fights or is it his upbringing? What do you mean by that? Yeah, a little bit of everything. I mean, the upbringing, a little bit of his persona and his spirit. So, yeah, there's a lot there that I feel that I can relate to. So there's a lot of respect there that I kind of just sit back and respect from afar. I'm not going to sit here. And give them all the jollies, but, but yeah, there's disrespect there for sure.

What about meeting Mark Zuckerberg over the weekend? What was that like? And was that your first time meeting Zuck? Big Zuck, hey? Yeah. Yeah, man, cool. All good. All good.

Had a quick, quick word with him, which is pretty cool. And I'm pretty sure he'd had, he would have been overwhelmed with a lot of stuff. but yeah it was nice the guys had gave me the meta glasses as well so I've got those somewhere in the backpack but yeah

I'll put those on and child them out I had Jeff who's now his videographer he used to work with us on this side of the world as well but introduced me to Zuck and got to have a quick chat and then had to shoot off to

watch the next fight so it was good. Okay, yeah. I think Jeff was with Izzy, right? Or was he with city kickboxing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's up. Plucked him away from the team, huh? To come by, hey, that's what it's about, right? I mean, you and that's

that's a position now that you're in. He's now moving, moving up and doing where he's now back in the States, working in the States. And able to introduce guys like myself, to guys like zuck yeah so now just being in those circles it's um uh i'm i'm now kind of just in that moment yeah um perfect world for you when would you like to return

i would like to return uh early next year for sure i mean having a nice because it's coming into summer here in new zeal yeah summer so i like training i like training in the summer the gym's just humming and and and and you know hot so when it's when it's when it's winter it's harder to get up in the mornings so you know like I like getting up nice and early watching the sun rise and and and getting you know getting my getting my early coffees and and then get starting my day nice and on a good high so yeah yeah man um I think early next year would be great. Maybe February March I'm looking at, and this would align with a title fight, I'm sure.

You're making me very envious as we enter winter here on this side of the world. We just had our summer, so I can't be too envious. But yes, you are very lucky, and it seems like everything's working out for you. Nine in a row now, you're on fire, and it sounds like it doesn't matter who the opponent is. your next fight will be for the belt. It sounds like you're in a tremendous position. So congratulations. Well done. Great win two weeks ago. And again, thank you so much for getting up early. We really, really do appreciate it. Nice, Chris. Thank you, man. Thank you, Carlos. All the best. Talk to you soon. Yeah. There he is. Carlos Alberg, kind enough to join us on this

Wednesday afternoon. You know what occurred to me earlier. Carlos Alberg formerly was didn't he do like you know he was like sort of like in the entertainment industry we talked about that with him a while ago right

I think so are you connecting yeah Magic Mike Tatam and Carlos Olberg yes I see what you're doing there we have two former male strippers on the show today

we call them dancers okay Magic Mike was inspired by Carlos Olver I was actually gonna ask him a question about that Why didn't you? Why are you doing this now? I don't know. I don't know. You told me. I don't know.

It just kind of occurred to me. What was that? What was that? It occurred to me. I know. He's about to put it into us. He's like, you told me? No, no, no. It occurred to me at the very end. And it just felt weird to say like, oh, by the way, were you? Wait, so are we saying Magic Mike was inspired by Carlos? Or Carlos inspired by Magic Mike? He was Joe. Magic Mike was based off of the life of Carlos Albaugh. But did you- Magic Mike, the story of extreme fighter Carlos.

But did you know, did you know that Channing Tatum was actually a dancer? Channing Tatum was actually a dancer. So was Carlos Elberg I knew about. Come on, man. Ladies Night Blackjack. Yes. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, I knew that.

I didn't know Channing Tatum actually was before the movie. Oh, yeah. The movie is based on his life. Magic Mike is based on Channing Tatum's life. The life in times of Channing Cates is. No, it's based on Carlos. We've just heard this now. Is there a documentary?

I don't know. the thing is you have to watch it it's it's called magic mike right right right life in times of i just think it's notable that we have two former male strippers on the show dancers dancers exotic dancers anyway uh we move on chang tain is going to join us in about uh an hour's time still to come eddie herne raven dan hangman hooker but first very very excited about our next guest uh because he hasn't said much since we last saw him in action uh we last saw him in action on Friday. We've talked a lot about his fight. We've talked a lot about the aftermath, the scoring, all that and more. You know how we feel about the scoring. You know how we scored the

fight. And yeah, you know how we feel about how it was all kind of handled in the aftermath. So let's hear from the man himself who's been relatively quiet and I totally understand why, although I did see him with Shultzzi backstage at an event, which is pretty damn cool. We're talking to big news. Paul Hughes, kind enough to join us on this Wednesday evening. Hello, Paul. How are you? Thank you, brother. Good to see. Yeah. It's great to see you. How was Schultz, by the way? I saw you back there with him. Phenomenal. What a guy as well, bro. The show was brilliant, but it was just such a kind, kind soul. It really, he was so good to all my mates as well, so we really had a good night.

Love it, love it. You deserve that. Am I right, though? I sometimes can miss things. You've pretty much kept a very low profile since Friday, right? I have, yeah. I have. Any reason why? I keep going to write up, bro, I'm just like chilling, to be honest. I'm just trying to zone out of obviously preparing for so long. I've been so busy. All of my friends are in town. My family are all in town and Dubai.

All the people that I love are close and I'm just spending quality time with them. So I haven't really been getting into that head space too much. Obviously, it took me some days to kind of really process the fight how it played out. Because obviously there was all the controversy and this and that. and initially, obviously, people go mad about scorecards. Initially, I didn't give a fuck, but I was just obviously sad, but now I'm trying to just make sense of everything and gather as much information as I could before I kind of put something out there.

And then, as I say, I've just been busy having a nice time. And I was going to do a post tonight, probably. So this is the silence now. Okay, this is the post. This is better than a post. You being here. Exactly. Well, I was about the right something earlier, and I was like,

oh, I'm doing Ariel tonight so people can. get it straight. So we're five days removed. How do you feel about what transpired? What are your thoughts? I know that's a very broad question, but just curious. Broad question for sure. I mean, generally speaking, I'm happy. As I said, all the people I love are close to me. Like my life is amazing. I'm blessed. I'm not sad. I'm not defeated. I don't feel like a loser. I don't feel deflated. I feel frustrated for sure. I feel frustrated when I think of the fight. And initially I almost, and people are going to think this is crazy, but initially I actually felt embarrassed by my performance because I really just don't feel like I performed

anywhere close to what I know that I can do or what I needed to do to beat him. And that was where my frustrations lay. I think people, when they see me, you know, the fight ended, they see me kind of going like, fuck, fuck. I was frustrated that I didn't do what I needed to do, you know. So frustrated is a little different than embarrassed. Yeah. Why embarrassed? Because I just didn't perform. I didn't perform. I felt like I was sloppy in there. I just felt like my hands and feet were just not working together. And the way they should, the way they needed to, I obviously I know why that happened, but I still, I felt like I was still going to win. You know, I still felt like I had what it takes to do something special,

but I just couldn't put it all together the way I needed to, to beat him, you know, to be one of the best guys out there. You have to be operating 110% and I didn't operate at 110% and I didn't win. If you can't compare the two performances, which one are you prouder of? Which one did you like yourself in more? The first fight against him or the second fight? Honestly, equally the same because I gave. everything that I possibly could each time. And I think with me, I always do. I give everything

like mentally, like what I can physically sometimes. Like, you know, yeah, look, I tried everything I possibly could for both fights and I'm proud of that, you know. Do you remember what you were thinking in between rounds? All right, I'm up to one. I'm down. I'm up, like, what are you thinking in the midst of the fight going into the fifth, I had a two-two going into the fifth, I gave you the fifth, and then afterwards. Do you remember at all what you were thinking as far as the scoring was concerned? Yeah, so let me think. Round one I knew, obviously it was him because he got my back and I had some good damage from that position. So I knew that. Round two I knew was definitely for me. I knew that I was bringing myself back into it. Three, four, I can't really

recall. In fact, I can recall coming out for round five, because Usman had a really good round four. I remember him clipped me some good jabs. I think round four was a clear round for him. And I remember him and me some good shots and I remember he started

talking shit back to me and like, which I enjoy, I enjoy that competitive side. But the momentum swung his way. So I remember sitting down between round four and five and going like, right, you really need to you really need to go on here because he's definitely trying. So that's what I can recall right now. By my count, there were three shots below the belt.

Two were acknowledged. The middle one, the referee, Keith Peterson essentially said like, no, no, no, keep going, keep going. Did any of them, you know, I'll be honest, there was one, I think it was the third one. Yeah, like it looked like you might not be able to continue. It looked like you were in that much pain. Was there any point where you thought you wouldn't be able to continue because of these shots? the third one was bad it definitely floored me it's funny because it literally was the exact same as the first fight um like i was in a lot of pain when that third one got through because it was just right on the money even the second one was on it too like it hit my cup it damaged me it was in a legal

strike and it's just i don't know why the second one wasn't called but anyway yeah the third one i do i knew i just needed some time sometimes with them strikes you just need a minute it sometimes two minutes to like get yourself back and I knew it was never going to stop like I'm never going to stop you were almost like a serial killer after the third one because you're on the pain on the floor like looking like you're out and then you pop up and then you start smiling and like what is up with this guy that is it was crazy I seen a bunch of shit in Twitter saying all he was faking the third one he got up and started laughing whenever I get up Habeb was laughing at me.

Oh, wow. Because he obviously thought that I was like milking it or whatever. So he was like kind of looking and laughing at me.

So I just gave him a wink. Golly. And then I kind of see how people would misconstrue that. But it is funny. Like, it is funny. What about at the end of the first round?

The tete-a-tete, so to speak. What did you think of that moment? Definitely looked like a fucking Brazilian footballer if I don't say so myself. Yeah. But to be fair,

like, like he did help me. like there's no denying that he headbutted me right in the eye like so you know like people are saying oh that's crazy you were milking at whatever maybe there's a wee bit of a milking for sure but like when i fought morgan charier my first cage warriors word title a point was taken off him for a headbutton me after the bell in a similar the exact same situation but i just thought that one was very funny and only realized that actually today was rewatching the fight was trying to just gather everything a little bit more before doing this and i realized when that happened obviously

the referees in between us, he clashes heads with me. And the referee goes, immediately, I didn't see it. And he follows me back to my corner and then says, I'm going to have a look at that. And then he started giving me a bollicking for stopping the fight. He's like, don't stop the fight if I don't stop it because of the ground strike, obviously. So I just thought it was such a weird, like, he's right in between us. He head butts me. And he goes, I didn't see. see it follows me and goes, I'm going to take a look at that, as in, like, I guess, a replay. I just thought that was weird. I didn't get it. Like, that's another foul, if you asked me. So Keith Peterson has come under fire a little bit in the aftermath. What did you make, and he's

someone who the likes of Dominic Cruz has criticized in the past, what did you make of the way in which he officiated the fight. Well, look, there are 100% should have been a point deducted. I mean, three files is too many. Like, what's the point of even having rules if you're not going to use them? And that's not including the head buck,

which is obviously, yeah, a foul also. Yeah, I don't think he's done a good job there at all. Your coach spoke to on Crown to Pizzi. Liam Shannon and he was critical of him as well and even talked about him judging an earlier fight on the card. Did you have any reservations about him and the way in which he would call the fight, the way in which he would officiate going into this? Was anything on your radar? Not me because I didn't know at that point that he was officiating John's, my teammates. So I think, so he, Peterson gave a 10-8 round against John whilst another referee or another judge gave a 10-9.

for John so I don't know what that I haven't had the ability to see it yet because it has been online I didn't know but my coach whenever he entered the changing room I seen him say so on and talk with some officials to kind of see what was going on because he knew that it was Peterson that had given it against John and he was now officiating my fight so I didn't know I knew my coaches are kind of like were suspect but I don't know if that's a normal thing if I'm sure it is officiating judging and refereeing I don't know it is like this is It's a lot of conspiracy stuff and that's John Mitchell.

It's not very important to be honest. Like this is not very important to me. Like I know a lot of people were instantly talking about the scorecards and that has been one of the main talking points. But to be honest, bro, like it's just full responsibility on me. I wasn't good enough. And like it's totally on me. You know, I wasn't, I wasn't thinking about the scorecards for many days there. You know, I was just thinking about not performing.

So even when you. you hear 50 to 45 and 49 46 there's no part of you that feels like what the heck was this how did I not win one round according to this one judge how did I not win more than one round according to none of that comes to mind you're just focused on not doing the job of course it does like when they first read out the first scorecard you've seen my face I just went fuck sick this is hardly happening again but my frustration and I'm almost involved embarrassment way outweighed that so that's what i was that kind of was taking up my headspace first and obviously as time has went on i've rewatched everything i've looked at all the stats of the fights

and then i've started scoring the rounds i'm like okay like i definitely clear cut one two rounds at least i had round two and five like absolutely no question to me and i had three a 50-50 so this is why i'm not saying there's any robbery there's no none of that going on if you give it three to Usman, that's fine. If you give it three, two to me, that's fine. Like, this is MMA. I'm totally aware of how this goes down every single weekend. But given a 45, 5045 is obviously fucking insanity. Like, it's fucking bonkers. As I seen the clip of you talking about it. And that's, I guess, what everybody has been talking about. Has anyone given you at least an explanation as to how that one? Because I would think, like, if that was me, I would want to know, how did you not

think I won the second, the fifth, the third. Has anyone explained that 50 to 45 to you? Because to me, it calls into question the whole thing when it's that blatant. That's the problem. It was, it's not a 48, 47 for him, which I have said, totally okay with. Even 49, 46, and I love it, but okay, at least one round. Zero rounds? How do you walk away with that? Like, I don't get it. Like, what's, what criteria is he using? Like, although to be fairly, he definitely used the same criteria for the five rounds. So at least you stick to his guns. Sure. So, but no one has explained that to you. You haven't gotten an answer. I haven't been speaking it either, bro. Like, as I said, like, that's not that important to me. What was important to me and is important to me is just

not doing what I needed to do. Okay. Did you feel going into the fight that you needed a finish? You needed a stop. Obviously, you never want to go to the judges. Everyone says that. But did you feel like, man, I just have to make this undeniable? I didn't feel like I need to finish. I prepared to beat him every single round. Obviously, with my style and how I kind of operate, I can finish people at the drop of hat. Uzmood is obviously just so elusive.

He's hard to catch. I didn't feel like I had to finish him to win this. I was prepared and was preparing for to win every round. It's amazing to me. Like, I got to give you all the props in the world. You know, he does the interview, and he's kind of talking to, to Jimmy Smith and he's like, look, you know, no controversy. Like, you know, he's feeling good about himself. Great.

And then you come in and say, hey, they didn't want to give me the mic. And I think they were kind of running out of time or whatever. And I think, okay, here comes an explosion. Here comes Paul Hughes, ranting. And all you're doing is saying like, hey, thank you to everyone for supporting me. Like, there's not an ounce of negativity, an ounce of frustration, sour grapes. How do you do that? Because you're a better man than most of us.

How do you do that in that moment? And how do you not just unleash all these emotions when it looks like maybe some questionable things were happening? Yeah. To be honest, the reason was and the reason that I made a point of, because they were escorting me out of the cage. And I said, I'm fucking talking to my people here. There's no chance I'm getting out of this cage without thanking everybody for traveling all the way over here from everywhere across the world. But obviously, especially Ireland. So I just walked straight over.

I was like, fuck this. Give me that. like my thought process behind that was just to to thank everybody coming out and then obviously there was a thanks to ozman's team thanks to Dubai as well but that was to thank my people okay the road to this fight was very interesting and to me it ended up being the biggest fight in pfl history and there's a lesson for the pfl like just make the biggest fights none of this other fancy standings tournaments of just make the biggest fights and look what happens how do you feel about Usman and his team now

in the aftermath? Now doing it twice. I know you were frustrated that you couldn't get the immediate rematch. It all worked out meaning you got the second crack at him. How do you feel towards him and his team now? Ultimately respect. Ultimate respect. For Usman as a competitor,

you know, I enjoyed that fight a lot. You know, I really, really did. We were talking shit to each other the entire time and I fucking love that. That is a competitor. You know, and I'm obviously testing him so much, and he's coming back. And, you know, we're just two competitors.

We're two of the best prospects in the whole sport. You could say two of the best lightweights on the planet, just going at it. And I just love that competition, so I've a great respect for him. Do you think he respects you now? That was kind of the theme going into the first fight, and you kind of brought it up a little bit last week as well. Do you think he still underestimates you, or do you think you have earned his respect? No, for sure.

for sure, for sure. You can't do 10 rounds and not have that respect at this point. Do you think there's any chance you get a third crack at him? Perhaps in the future. Perhaps in the, it'll be some years for sure. Okay, you don't think there's a chance they do it right away? No. No. Are you okay with that? Are you at peace with that? I'm at peace with it. I, bro, I didn't do enough. This is on me. This is all on me. Wow. Well, I definitely respect you.

it all on you. Are you being, is there a chance that you're being too hard on yourself? You did seem to fight a great fight in most people's eyes and some thought you want. I'm always my own biggest critic. I have to be and that's why I'm in this position. I think it's, it's not because it's the first, I am proud of myself. You know, I'm extremely proud of myself and I don't feel defeated in any way and I don't feel like a loser. I'm just sad and frustrated. that I wasn't able to fight at a hundred and ten percent to beat him you know what I mean that's what I'm sad about when you say that are you saying that you weren't 100 percent going into the fight well like nobody's 100 percent going into any of these fights you know there's no excuses

like every fighter you watches is not at 100 percent so no like I just didn't yeah and I wasn't enough i wasn't good enough um what did your team say to you afterwards your coaches what what was the feedback from them they all had at three two for you yeah all had it too and like at that point i was just like i i felt in the fight that i was just fighting amateurish at times because as i say like my body my mind was saying yes but body wasn't following of what i needed to do and that just was frustrating me because I just wasn't performed where I normally do you know and so when I came out of it I was like fuck sec I don't even like I knew the last round was close but coming out for the last round they were like this is two each you have to win this round

so I was like right I pulled it out like I definitely pulled a good fifth round out of the bag all things considered I dug dog fucking deep like I'd dug deep to just keep the pressure and keep on them. And I, like, I put him on, I put them, I put them, I dropped them in the fucking last round. Like, you know, I sent them to a knee. And in the actual broadcast, like, yeah, you see it, but I've seen some of the instant replays. It's, like, I dropped them. Like, are we scoring damage here? Or are we, what are we doing? Like, that's, that was the most significant shot of the last round and potentially even the fight. Never mind the head kick,

I whacked them. Never mind all the pressure and all the other shots I was scoring the last round. So, yeah, I don't know. Getting into the weeds, we've been here. No, I understand. When you're watching, are there moments that you're like, man, I wish I could get this one back. I wish I could do this differently. Is it hard for you to watch? It's hard to watch.

It's hard to watch. But I've done the best that I could on the night. Most importantly, what did your parents say afterwards? You know we love your parents around here. If they'll be watching this night, they'll be buzzing. After so proud, but everyone is, I've, I've such an unbelievable friends and family circle, And that's why, you know, it's, although the losing's hard, I still am very, very blessed. You know, I think some of the narrative afterwards, and I'm not trying to stir the pod here, was just like, ah, it's time for Paul to leave PFL. And my response to that was like, no one has flown the PFL flag prouder and higher than Paul Hughes. You continue to say how happy you are, how well they treat you, you chose them, all this stuff and more. Have your sentiments changed?

about the organization after this or again are you are you just going to say this is on me and nothing else no i mean i feel really positively about the pfl as i've always said that they they've changed my life you know and they've given me these opportunities like obviously i mean it's no secret that a lot of fans were unhappy or not on not unhappy well yeah you could say unhappy with how it is being marketed but more so um like what made me kind of sad was just a lot of people saying, oh, we don't know this was, we didn't know this was on or we don't know where to watch it. And I'm like, this is the biggest, this is my whole life's work. How do people that know this fight's on? Do you know what I mean? So that, that maybe just made me personally

feel a bit sad that people weren't able to see my work and everything I'd be working so hard for. But other than that, that's a small thing. Other than that, everything has been fantastic, been treated so well. The staff are all incredible. They're so nice. They're so kind. and they've changed my life, like, so I still stick by that. It's a new era. There's a new CEO. I saw John Martin in between you guys. Could you tell us what the vibe is like within, you know, the staff, the company,

Fight Week, have you sensed any sort of difference from previous fight weeks? See, to be honest, I didn't. I wasn't near the Fider Hotel the whole time. So I just went in for my obligations and dipped back out again. But for what I was, therefore, it was very positive. And it always is very positive. As I say, everyone's very kind. The staff are all very nice, and there's no complaints.

How quickly do you want to return? I need some time. I've been, I've gave it everything the last 18 months here. That's my sixth fight in 18 months, my fifth and PFL, my second world title fight. My body, my body needs some time here. Okay. Serious stuff bothering you, or you just feel like it's the wear? and tear of the last 18 months like do you do you have any serious injuries some oh really surgery

yeah i need no okay i'm not doing surgery no um i'll get back over the bio accelerator right in columbia very soon um shout it to those guys because if i if i didn't see them i would not have been able to do an r fight camp they literally would have been physically possible so huge shout out the bio accelerator in Columbia will hopefully get back out there very soon okay we know about your history with your hands are your hands bothering you no thankfully not touch with issues like and that's all I'll say on this okay got you got you I understand you don't want to you don't want to come across like you're making any excuses or sour grapes or anything like that so I definitely do appreciate it is there a chance you're out for like a year like you just need

that type of mental and physical break no no definitely not like I the thing is I I want to keep going like I want to keep going I waited so long to be in these opportunities there's nothing like it's my team they're saying we're basically we're not letting you we're not letting you fight we

you have to take time I want to keep I love like I have never loved this sport so much of my life like truly seeing being in a better position now and that's again shout out to PFL again for changing my life see being able to do these training camps with my team and like I've been in Dubai for over a month now to be able to have these experiences

like with all the people that you love that are there for you and just working towards the dream it's such a beautiful thing I've never enjoyed and loved this sport more in my life I love competing I love the daily grind I love getting better I love the feeling that like I'm going to be the best in the world someday I just need to keep doing what I'm doing and I've got a full team support me doing it. I don't want to stop. Like, I want my mindset as yes, but my body's saying no right now. So I just, I need a bit of time.

Like, I need a bit of time. I get it. You know what you need. You need to get back home, be around your friends and family. I know a lot of them are there as well. Get a nice little burrito from that spot, maybe a big one or two. No, no, we can. We're done.

Okay, we're done. So here, we'll switch it up. We'll go nando's. Oh, I love a Nandoz. See, I have had Nandoes. Okay, so we're done with them. We're moving on. We're done with Mexican X establishment.

We're moving on to Nando's. That's the next one. We're going for the black card there. Okay, okay. I feel like they're a little bit... Do you want to help me out here? I was going to hype me up. I actually know someone who has the black card.

I feel like this one's more attainable. Get on it, Tim. Get on the damn black card, all right? What's the order, by the way? What's the order? Oh, Nando's you're talking sunset burger, price, all the chips. Do you know what I like to do?

I'll like to do it after Wednesday. I'll go extra chicken thighs on the side, right? Oh, wow. Then I'll get an extra portion of garlic bread. I'll get Hulumi, Parenase, Perry Salted, and I'll make my own second burger. Wow. Burger. I've never had the burger there.

I've just had the chicken. No, I'm making it myself. I'm getting all the plates. And, bro, I got this shit on lock. Like, if you ever back this direction, bro, I got you. Do they have it over there in Dubai? They have it, bro. And we go after every single wend that I've had.

years. So I've got years of footage. I'm going to get madder and start clipping it up as we speak. I'm going to get them pro sent over everything, sort of. Yeah, forget those gibronies, the burrito guys. Yeah. Yeah. Forget them. They had their chance. The ship has sailed. The ship has sailed, exactly. I love it. All right. Well, enjoy your time off. Well done. Great fight. But man, the way you conduct yourself, I really do have to tip my cap to you. It's really a pleasure to watch you do your thing. With the lights so bright on you. No one would have faulted you for, for, you know, what do you guys say, like throwing the baby out with the pram or whatever, like going crazy, going insane. And you, you've kept it so classy,

so professional. It's really a pleasure. For all those people, lastly, before I let you go, who took to social media, who posted things on your behalf, who were upset, all those fans who have supported you for so long, you have a very loyal fan base. What do you want to say to them? bro like this has been this has been the thing I've been thinking about because I wanted to say the right thing as well for everybody traveling over like I see like I had to take some time away obviously from online but when I do open it it's just so positive and then obviously my phone just the messages of everyone I love but also like the weekend that I've had here in Dubai like there's so many people traveled over from every corner of the globe like as I say especially

Ireland you're talking I would say near a thousand people came over here and I got to spend time and see everybody on the Saturday because we threw an after party and I think I got to see basically everybody and get photos with everybody that came and that is like the most meaning

one of the most meaningful things about this whole journey is to be able to share them experiences with everybody that have either been with me from the start or they've just joining now and like the energy like people are making friends throughout the world just from coming to my fights like people traveling solo would have come to them like we've developed such an amazing community at this point

and that's really meaningful so i just want to thank all these people that i've always traveling over and then just in general if you're tuning in if you're subscribing to the youtube all that stuff it's it's really meaningful incredible well done paul thank you so much for the time really appreciate thank you for coming on uh get well soon heal up and congrats on a great fight you you you fought your ass off and you deserve all the praise that you are getting thank you brother and a shout out to boys in the back as well. I know these are all supporters, so I really do appreciate it. They will love that. Thank you, Paul.

All the best, you. We'll talk to you soon. Have a good one. Bye. There he is. Big news. Paul Hughes. Giving a shout out to the BITB. Does that include Pizzi as well? Was in the back mention, baby. What a week for you guys, right? Shut up Paul Hughes.

From Yerry shitting on you to shitting. Is that what we're going with? Jesus. I mean, every time you get a chance, you're like, word of the week, performing it. Actor of the month. Oscar award winning performance Speaking of Oscar winners

Channing Tatum going to be joining us Has Channing ever won an Oscar? I don't think so No I don't think so No no but he could win one For Roof Man Is it Roofman? You're making all the nominations this year

The Rock for the Smashing Machine Channing Tatam for Roofman I just hope it opens with a bit of a better You know what is it gate What do you call? You already called it a box office smash it A Roofman Yeah

Is it Roof Man or Roofman? Roofman. Roofman. You think so? Yes. It's a coming of age story, really. It's a true story, Frank. It's based on actual events.

Actual events. No documentaries, so you don't have that... They have to worry about which one to watch first. That internal battle is not present. You know what a coming of age story is? What do you mean? Like, it's like the guy... He plays like a 40-year-old something in that.

Yeah, yeah. But he comes of age in the sense that his family's struggling. He needs to help them out. He robs people. in the nicest of ways, and then he hides under a Toys R Us. Love a good old nice robbery. And so it's like under a Toys R Us and it's called Roof Man? Yeah, I'm not sure why.

Yeah. But we'll ask him, right? All right, yeah. All right. Well, I'm looking forward to that. That's going to be in about 30 minutes time, then Eddie Hearn, then Raven, quote the Raven, Nevermore. Yesterday we spoke to Armant Taruki.

And today we speak to the other half of that highly anticipated November 22nd, Qatar or is it cut our main event. Regardless, it's one of the most anticipated fight night main events of the year, if not the most. Can't wait for this. There's a lot of history there between the two of them. Now let us hear from the great Dan Hooker, the other side of that equation. Kind enough to join us on this Wednesday afternoon or Thursday morning over in New Zealand. Hello, Dan. How are you? What are you, sir? Welcome back. Thank you. Not to the show. Just not to be back. Just not to the show, just more to like life, to life, to like fighting.

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. I've been out of the loop for a minute, so, yeah, excited to not only get back, but to get back in a pretty big way to get back. And as the old boss said, the other day, is the number one contender fight. So a few things. When did you get officially 100% cleared to return?

the day before the fight was announced okay so not that long ago I had it actually had it yeah it was pretty much signed off and then we were straight to work how is the hand now you feel like no restrictions no problems

that's good like obviously you just need to sign off from the surgeon so they don't want you to wreck their work and make them look stupid. You know what I mean? So you're just trying to press him to cyber and trying to press him to get it signed off. But yeah, he knows me.

He's a really good surgeon. And so he knows that I was going to wreck it straight away and go and fight straight away. So he gave it a little bit of extra. time just so I wouldn't just so I wouldn't and he made sure it was at 100% is that what happened the first time because you had to go for a second procedure right no it was um yeah I had back to back I had a plate put in um after the initial break and then the second surgery was just to have the plate um taken out because it was just restricting uh the it was it was no one's fault it was a

really good surgeon. It was just such a bad break that it was like restricting the way that my hand would move. So we had to take the plate out and just so it would free it up a bit. So yeah, it was like, it was not as real fall. It was just how bad the break was. When you were thinking, okay, I'm going to come back, end of the year, all this stuff. Was Armand someone that you thought was going to. to be offered was he on your radar obviously we know about the back and forth between you guys

but did you think he would be offered ultimately or did you think they would offer someone else yeah i thought that was um i thought that was going to be the fight um i know that he was offered gamrott um who he's lost to and he he he turned that fight down um and gamrots like obviously someone just ranked outside of me and someone that i've been in so I knew between, like, he didn't want to fight Gamrod because Gamrod was ranked so low and coming off a loss. And so I knew that between me and Amman Suruki and that absolutely no one wants to fight the guy. I know that no one wants to take that risk. I knew that some of the bigger name goes.

Because now they have a reason to avoid him as well. Like everyone does have a reason to avoid him with the weight miss and things like that. there'll be a lot of like now the champion has an excuse to not fight the guy and like a legitimate excuse in that in that the UFC and you put so much time into something

and then a guy pulls out at the weight cut is a legitimate excuse for a champion and the UFC to not put you into a big fight I knew that he had to fight to get back into title contention so I knew that this fight

I would be the only person that would want the most difficult fight. I don't discredit the other guys for picking their battles and trying to find the most least path of resistance, but that's just not the way that I do things. I think that he's the toughest test. I think he's the best fighter in the division. And so that's the way that I want to go.

I want to go the hardest way. When you guys were offered the fight, did they tell you, yo this is a number one contender fight because when dana announced it they rarely do that these days they rarely like officially announced it i know he was asked the question but he'll usually kind of say uh we'll see you know um so i was surprised but i think it's warranted so i'm wondering did you know that or did you find out like like we all did so it's just um like sirukin's the he's the number one contender he's the number one contender that has has to prove himself to get back in the mix

that's why I wanted to fight him because I know that you I know if I got in there with Amarukian is your last win on a full fight win streak then I know that beating him the title shot is

guaranteed in which the boss reinforced obviously there was a like what was it Charles Olivera was without an opponent and then everyone's like asking why I didn't jump into that because I feel like I beat Charles Olivero I'm still not

head and shoulders the next guy in line I feel like there's still I feel like there's still questions to answer I feel like beating Amman Sir again answers all of the questions and it's without a doubt and yeah the boss the boss seconds that and he agrees so it's very exciting times now what okay so what about the relationship between

you two for lack of a better word because we saw the tweets over the past year or so and then i saw you doing an interview with a submission radio saying like if you guys get close this is going to pop off beforehand so is that is that a real like do they need to be very careful here because obviously you guys want to get paid you want to have the fight if you fight beforehand it may not happen yeah obviously this is bad blan i feel like he's coming and been pretty, like, since he first came into the UFC, he's just kind of discredited me as a fighter and things that I've done. And that's his own opinion.

But, and there's just been back and forth over the years. And so I'd love to get in there and find him. It's just things that he's done in the past, you know, he's just like, he's just like a lippy little rich kid that's had everything handed to him in his life. And he thinks he can go around and, and, like, it's like, I'm just saying if there's a repeat, like there's a video of him walking up on Bobby Green and like getting in his face like before the fight.

And obviously he doesn't need the money from these UFC fights. You know what I mean? He does this for attention and Instagram likes. Like he doesn't fight to feed his family. Like I fight to provide for my family. Bobby Green provides for his family through fighting. So him coming up in his face Obviously Bobby Green's not going to lash out

And he's going to keep a professional I'm just saying if he walks up on me Like he walked up on Bobby Green The fight The fight is cancelled And the UFC has been It's been forward I might actually write that in my contract

Do you think that is something That kind of works against them Like if you have to If you need to win You need to fight to provide for your family As opposed to not as you say Do you think that means you have a lesser edge if you're on that side of the equation?

Not the way the sport is now. I don't think the sport, I don't think the sport, yeah, I don't think the way the sport is design, design now. I don't think it was what it used to be. I think now, you know, like you can see that. Like I come up from nothing, you know, we were training and training with nothing, training with no equipment when I first started

coming up in here. We had no UFC fighters from training out of New Zealand in the UFC. Now you can, like he, you know, he can get the best nutritionist. His daddy can pay for the best strength and conditioning coach and fly him to, bro, I've seen some of the, him come out and say that he spent, oh, he had to pull out. He's like, yeah, I spent 100K on training camp. It's like, bro, what? Who has, like, he flies in sparring partners and coaches.

Like, he should win the amount of money that he puts into these things. Like, bro, I drive five minutes down the road and go out to Siddiquet boxing and punch my mates in. Yeah, the sport is, it shows that it's like a true testament as to how far the sport has come. that you know just essentially rich little daddy's boys can reach the pinnacle of the sport I asked him about this potential interaction and the relationship between you two here's what you had to say I'd love for you to hear it and maybe respond he's going to talk a lot but a lot of brothers coming and hopefully he's going to they they they they gonna stop me you know oh my and uh yeah i shouldn't i shouldn't do some crazy things i just gotta be

focused because i'm gonna have 25 minutes to beat his ass he can do whatever he wants to do he's gonna have 25 minutes and if he wants we can fire and uh and after fire we can fire we can fight again what but not before so he says a lot of brothers are coming oh fuck i've never been jumped before but uh who cares who cares who cares i've had my i've had my ass beat more times than you've had hot dinners brother you think you think that scares me in any way shape or form you're off your head you got some pretty tough brothers on your side as well just for the record

I've got some pretty tough brothers, but I don't, I'm not that guy. I don't, I'm not that guy, Baba. I'm not that guy. I've heard him as well. I'm not that guy. I don't go get no one in my life. I don't, you beat me up. I'm not going to go get anyone else to come and sort it out.

I'm not going to hide behind anyone. I don't need brothers. I have brothers, but I'm not that guy. I don't go and get people. If I got a problem with someone, I'll come around your house and sort it. it out myself. I'm not, I don't send anyone to go and do my dirty work for a while. I saw what he said as well. He's like, he's like, if we just go in a room without bodyguards and cameramen, brother, I don't have bodyguards and cameraman. And I've never hired a bodyguard

or a camera. That's that's how out of touch of the skid is that he just thinks that life comes with bodyguards and cameramen. I've never had a bodyguard in my life, brother. Obviously, there's UFC security guards standing around and stuff like that. But get real. We got 25 minutes. You're right. We got 25 minutes.

And I cannot wait for it, my friend. I can't wait. I can't wait to see the look on your face. Have you ever felt this way about an opponent before? I hate everyone. of course it doesn't matter you could be my best mate you could be my worst enemy

I'm going to do the exact same thing when you lock that door it makes no shit of a difference I think I think I'm the better father and I can't wait to prove it you know when I also asked him about how the fight was going to play out

he predicted a knockout which is fine but then he said you know you better practice your wrestling and so I'm wondering which one do you believe more do you think it's going to be a wrestle fest so to speak do you think he's going to try to continuously take you down

sort of like what we saw with Hamzat and his game plan against DDP or do you think he's actually going to try to knock you out stand and trade with you? He's pretty well-rounded like I'm sure he's yeah he's pretty well-rounded he can go anywhere

I think skill for school I feel like he is the best um fight in the division he's just a bit boring he's a but technically

skill for skill he is a good fighter um yeah wherever the fight goes I'm excited to I'm excited to wrestle with him I feel like obviously I feel like

I have an advantage if it stays on the feet I feel like I do have an advantage anyone can get knocked out in the sport but I definitely have an advantage if the fight stay striking but yeah I'm feel like I've been approving my wrestling a lot over the last couple of years and I'm excited to get out there and get into some scrambles and wrestle him if he wants to wrestle he's going to make himself tired that's that's all I can say I would love it

if he did wrestle but he's going to just make himself tired that's all that's going to happen can I ask the I guess the friction between you two when did it start How did this all come about? I think when he first got into the UFC and he started saying my name and discrediting what I accomplished. And I'm just not a guy to back down and take that lightly. And I think, yeah, when he first coming into the UFC, he's saying I'm ducking him and I didn't even know who the kid was. I actually, because the manager's Ruby, I actually give, I have to apologize Ruby because I was giving him shit. saying get off your

I said these blokes don't even speak English I said get off their Twitter I thought he was doing the Ali Abdel Z's and just tweeting on his boys getting on his boy

Twitter and just firing out a bunch of nonsense so I actually got into Ruby I was like I said get off these kids calling me out and talking shit I said get off these kids

Twitter handles me you're going to get them hurt but It turns out it was actually Armand the whole time, so I was fully warranted. Yeah, he's just been bailing off since he first got in the UFC. Are you guys going to see each other before Fight Week? Are they making you go out there for any sort of press conference, face-off thing? Sometimes they do that.

I doubt it. I doubt it. I doubt it. How do you feel about the fight being in Qatar? Yeah, cool. five percent tax brother i'll fight there um i'll fight there every fight for for the remainder of my career i fight for money i'll fight to put the most amount of i fight for the most amount of money possible so so and it's a it's the longest direct flight in the world so it's a direct flight

from um new zealand but it's the longest direct flight in the world wow wow how long long. I think it's like over 17 hours direct. Damn. I didn't even know that commercial airlines can do that 17 hours straight. Yeah, I've done it before. Yeah, Auckland to Doha. Just from memory, I might have to chat GPT. I should have done that before. You've been there before. Why were you there? I've done that flight, flying to BKFC and Marbea coming back. I did. It was three flights. I believe I flew to

my Bayer to London, London, to Doha, and then Doha back to New Zealand. By the way, you mentioned you know, you fight for money. That's how you provide for your family. This will be your first fight since August of last year. How difficult has this past year been for you? Oh, brother.

If you're... I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I'm not silly with money. I knew that... I know full well that the sport can be taken away of me at any moment in time. And so I was obviously accounted for that in a lot of different ways. So not difficult. It's if you're a professional MMA fighter and you don't factor in that you could be getting injured,

then you're naive. There's one thing for any young fighter that wants to be a professional. professional fighter is that there is a, this sport comes with a hundred percent chance of injury. You're not, like, I'm not, it's not something that I'd never anticipated happening. I've been pretty lucky throughout most of my career to not be, to not be injured. Like recently, I've had a couple of injuries, like obviously back-to-back, a couple of back-to-back arm surgeries, but like prior into that. And then also those are, those are broken bones as well. that's actually not

they're actually not the end of the world if you're going to like the last thing you want to have is like obviously neck issues like ligament issues ACL MCL knees shoulders like the joints are pretty bad injuries

and they're there ones that take a long time to heal. I've just been kind of unlucky. But then also at this stage of my career not getting hit in the head that consistently is also like a good has been a nice little

refresher as well and a lot of other things I've been able to do a lot of other things with the time off obviously one minute scraps my own my own yeah I wouldn't that kind of whole thing wouldn't

come together and that's been that's been really fun That's been really exciting to get my hands and sink my teeth into. Shout out to One Minute Scraps. You just had an event. What was it, a 32-man tournament? This one was in a gym, not in the back garden, right? Not that one, this one, the next one is outside.

So I got the next one is November 2nd. We're going to do the next one. So, yeah, I've done three different events. So first one I had super heavyweight men, then no weight limit woman. And then we had the 32 convicts. So I had 32 convicted, like your backstory, you had to be convicted criminal. So I had 32 convicts battle it out. And then this next one, I'm doing the king of knockouts.

So to enter it, you have to have a knockout on your resume, not TKO, not cut stoppage, nothing like that. it needs to be sleep you need to have you need to afford and you need to have someone sleeping on your record and so i got 32 guys coming in and this one's like 80 kilos so i think it's like 175 um pounds and it's just a really cool format i get 32 guys and then uh it's a one minute the whole fight and you so you need and i have $50,000 on the line for for each one so you have five one minute fights and it's just an eliminator so first round 16 second round's eight four yeah and then you you fight for the thing so you win five um one minute fights and you win fifty thousand dollars i got my next so i got my next shows in november um and that's obviously

the king of knockouts that's everyone on their got to have knockouts on their resume to enter but then the next two shows i haven't um i haven't um i haven't obviously announced those, well, I've got some real cool ideas, or not ideas. I've locked in December and January as well, so they'll be, they'll be really exciting. That'll be some really cool ones. With the convicts, was it hard to find 32? I could have made 64. Yeah, I just, yeah, I ran that for like a lot of different reasons. I ran that for a lot of different reasons I

um you know these are the guys that can't get out of the country and they can't go and fight professionally and they've had it taken away for them like they can't travel and fight overseas and make a living from this sport

and they're never going to get that kind of eyes on an event and that kind of opportunity or definitely not the opportunity to get $50,000 their hands are $50,000 like that's been taken away from them for one reason or another mistakes that they've made in the past so it was like just a cool opportunity

to give them something to work towards or give them something to focus on and really lock into could this be a thing like are you starting to get sponsors now are people wanting to stream it live

I know you you posted on MacLife gets great numbers there but like is this a thing where you're feeling like you've you found something here you're on to something this could be a really big thing for you it's definitely um it's definitely growing it's definitely exciting it's definitely something that that people want to watch it's lucky that i have a really good um so a guy that sponsors me the doctor's social he's um he's a streamer like he streams and and he we kind they just come up with it together.

We put the idea together and then just started running the fights. He obviously sponsors them. We could have done without him and then I just get the fighters and run the events. But people have just been loving the content. The numbers have been going absolutely crazy. And the three events, I've almost got, yeah, half a million followers on Instagram. And that's with no ads, no, I don't know. I haven't been doing any kind of crate.

It's just me and pretty much me and an iPhone and we're just people who are just absolutely loving the concept. I got, oh man, the next two shows are fun. I haven't announced those. No one messaged me about them.

Because there's so many things that you can do, you know, there's so many cool different ideas that you can get after. But I was thinking, you know, Christmas is coming up in December. you've got, you know, dads need money for presents. I was going, what's a cool way? You can do, I'm going to do dads with no fights.

So you can't have ever stepped foot. You can't ever step foot in a ring or had a fight, any kind of fight in one way, shape or form, and you need to have a dad bond. So I'm going to get 32 dads. Hell yeah. Battling it out. I'm going to get 32 dads.

battling out with their bare bellies for $50,000 so that'll be like a nice little we'll see how hard bad will fight that's brilliant to put on a really cool Christmas for their kids that'll be a fun one

and then next year we're going back to the start we're going back we're going to the backyard and we're going to do the super heavyweight boys again but this time the doctor wants to double the money

we're going to chuck up 100 grand for the super heavyweight boys so that's the next three events all locked in November December and January and it's yeah it's just it's kind of each one is its own thing but I'm excited I'm excited for the next one winner scraps for sure I can see the enthusiasm radiating for the you love talking about this which is great I'll let you go in a moment but I just want to ask as far as the fight with with Armin I literally I really can't way I love this fight love this fight I love the dynamic between you two

what are you envisioning how are you beating him I think I definitely know how to be play out I'm just excited to go everywhere with it I'm excited I don't really have to prove anything to anyone um I'm excited

I'm excited to take it from him. I'm excited to take the fight. I'm not avoiding any aspect of this fight. Whether it's on the ground or in the wrestle or on the feet, I'm willing to take it anywhere with him. I just genuinely think that I'm a better fighter than he is, and I'm excited to prove it. Thank you, Dan.

All the best to you. Always a pleasure. Good luck with one minute scraps, and then, of course, good luck November 22nd. Appreciate it very much. thank you sir you're the man there he is the great dan hooker kind enough to join us on this wednesday here in america thursday morning in ockland and the way in which he talks about one minute scraps is tremendous and i really can't wait for that fight i cannot wait for that fight against armaturuki

i think the fight week buildup is going to be phenomenal i think the dynamic between them they couldn't be more different is going to be a lot of fun as well so look out for that that's uh november 22nd in katar all right let's move on still to come raven end of the show Hern in studio in about 20 minutes time, but how about this one? I told you last week, it's rare when my brother texts me excited about a guest on the show, and that's when Benny Safdi was on. It's rare when my sister-in-law texts me excited about a guest on the show, and my wife as well. She's like, what? Why didn't you tell me Channing Tatum's on your show today? How did this happen? Well, it happened, and it's happening. Without further ado, let us say

hello to the star of the upcoming film Roofman, which is out this Friday around the world. The great Channing Tatum is here. Wow. Thanks. This is amazing. I meet you, man. Finally. This is amazing. What a great honor this is for us, really. No one believe me. Man, I've been watching you forever. Wow. That means the world. That really does mean the world. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And what a great film this is. I mean, the story's phenomenal. It's based on a true story. It's one of, I was trying to explain to the guys. It's like, yeah, sometimes in life there are bad dudes there are villains but sometimes they have they have good meaning they have they have a purpose they're good people deep down inside is that the best way to describe geoffrey manchester the

man you're playing in this film yeah i think that's a really good way actually um you know my director told me uh one time he's like i've never met a hero and i've never met a villain i've just met humans and i think it's really easy to take a snapshot out of somebody's life and judge the shit out of them especially right now in this time that we just i don't know I feel like, I feel like we judge everything. I feel like we judge the world. We judge people. We judge ourselves.

You know, this guy, yes, he did absolutely commit crimes. Like, he robbed over probably 45 McDonald's, but he only got caught for one, but he got sentenced for 45 years in prison. He figured that that was essentially a life sentence. And he was like, well, if this day isn't going to give me a second chance, I'm going to give myself a second chance. And he broke out. And he's pretty smart individual.

So he didn't just try to get as far away as fast as possible. And he hid in a Toys Ruff. for six months. And he's just a, he's just a wily character, man. And, um, but yeah, I think, I think in all of our lives, if you, man, I could have, I'm probably two decisions away in my life from not being very different of an outcome, um, than Jeffrey Manchester, the guy I get to play in Ruthman. You really believe that. I mean, we, we know about your backstory. We know about the, the, the male stripping, but two decisions away, like incarceration, all that stuff. I mean, I think we're all almost two decisions away. I mean, like, I mean, I don't know. I

think I'm all good and fine, and then somebody cuts me off, like, taking my daughter to school, and I'm ready to literally get out and drag somebody out of a car. And I'm like, where did that come from? I wasn't feeling that, like, two minutes ago. And, you know, just bad moments, bad decisions. And, you know, he made some really, really bad decisions. And that, you know, look, I grew up in Florida. I was a stripper, like, for real, for a year. I mean, there was a ton of bad decisions, a string of them that could have happened that it would have definitely been a bad outcome. Are the bad decisions what lead you to stripping, or are they happening while you're stripping? You know what?

I actually, you know, I guess I can only say this because I got out pretty unscathed in a way. I really was looking for, I guess, the abyss in a way. Like I was wanting to have a crazy experience, and I went into that world. And I don't know if it was a bad decision because it gave me a lot of my life experience, I guess. and I'm still pulling on those life experiences today. Not only just to make the movies, but like, you know, I think when people ask me, like, how do I become, you know, I want to be an actor? How do I become an actor? And I'm like, well, first, yeah, you got to know if you enjoy acting and if you actually really want to explore what that means and learn how to act.

It's like, you know, I want to be a fighter. But unless you're actually going to go do the work to see if you actually can, like, truly devote yourself to the art of it, you know, you don't have anything. And I think the only other thing that I would say other than technique and actually learning how to act is you've got to live a life. Personally, I'm not one of the... There's so many British actors that just can do anything,

whether they can just pour them... They're like water, and they can pour them in a vessel, and they can just truly be anyone. I kind of can't play anyone that I don't really feel some sort of kindredness or some sort of connection to that I've maybe had some... some even thin webbing of a connection of my own life too.

So I've taken the opportunity to listen to a lot of your interviews leading up to this interview. I like to do that. I like to hear what people are saying. And what's so refreshing to me is you're a gigantic star. You don't need me to say this. But you seem very willing and open and honest to talk about maybe some things that you're dealing with. Imposter syndrome is something that I'm fascinated by.

And I know you talked to New York Times about this as well. and I'm like wow Channing Tatum like from afar this guy has it all he's done it all he continues to just make hit after hit it seems like everything is perfect and and he's such a big star and he's respected he's not just a pretty face he's respected as a big movie star and is it because you come from that that you know humble beginning that you feel like you know what maybe I'm not that guy despite the fact that everyone says I am maybe I'm still the stripper or the lost kid who didn't make it as a football player is it because of that tough upbringing that you still have a hard time fully believing

that you are as good as people say you are? You know, I didn't ever dream of being an actor. It wasn't in my, I don't know, it wasn't in like the possibilities, I guess, of like, you know, these are the jobs that you can have sort of things. I just didn't, acting to me was like something that happened on a stage in high school that, you know, I don't know, I just didn't, I played football, I played sports in general, but I don't know I think that I

came into acting through modeling and that was a true I guess someone just saw me on the street and was like hey you know I think you can do this and I got paid to just stand naked and flex in front of a fucking camera sorry I don't know if I can cussle

no go ahead go crazy but um it you know it wasn't very fulfilling as a job but it paid the bills I didn't have to have a normal job like that I've had many normal jobs and and so it it did the job of just living, I guess.

And then acting kind of came along through just getting a commercial. And then that led into movies. And ultimately, like, I was getting parts in movies before I really truly felt like I knew what I was doing. I was kind of just faking it to make it or whatever you want to call that. And I was just trying to, I was barely hanging on was what it really felt like. And as it kept going, you kind of feel like I liken it to like. I don't know. I can't remember how old you are, but like, you know, I feel like the radio winner that guessed the, that guessed the right song with like, you know, two seconds of the

song. And, like, I got allowed into the concert or whatever, like, my tickets were to. And then I got backstage and then no one asked me to leave. So I just am sort of like, I'm like, all right, I'm just, I'm in this thing now. And then you really put the time and the work in to, like, truly learn it. And I didn't really even know how much I loved movies. until I started to really study acting and film and storytelling in general. And it's taken me a long time to feel, I guess to feel like I've earned a place at the table. You know, some of these people that I've gotten blessed to work with, man, they're so good at what they do. I don't even know how to explain it.

Like, you know, I would just watch them and go, they're just in so much more control of what they're doing. You know, you have people that are, you know, I don't. know you work in a space where you can see you see artists of a different kind you know martial artists that some people just have this like god-given ability and then some people you know have had to like truly hone it and and and sharpen it through through the years and they grow and and i don't know like i think mine was really like i had to earn my stripes and and i don't i don't feel until now i'm 20 years into the business and i just now feel like i've been like okay i i deserve i do deserve to be it wasn't an accident, I guess.

Even saying that, I feel like you stumble just slightly because you can't fully say it. Do you fully believe that now? Or you still have those insecurities? Well, I think of all the actors that I love, like, you know, the only people that are still here, really, that I love. But, like, Denzel Washington, I got to hang out with for, like, a weekend. And, like, he's one of my favorite actors.

And I just, I don't know how to explain it. Like, me saying that out loud and thinking of myself that I would be able to, like, be in a movie with, with someone that I admire to a degree that is like, I don't know. It's like fighting your hero. Like, I mean, how do you do that? It's, it's crazy. You know, and movies aren't, you're not fighting, but you're, but you are going somehow, like, you're connecting in a very raw and visceral way that is, is really real time. And you have to show up and really be there. And to say that about some of the titans that I have grown up watching and that I somehow can,

yeah, you're right, I can almost barely say it now that I feel like I could, could deserve to share an arena with. The character that you play in this film, which again is out this Friday, October 10th, Jeffrey Manchester, the film is Roofman. He's still alive, right? Yep, still in prison, central prison in Raleigh, North Carolina. Have you talked to him? Have you ever met him? I haven't met him in person. I talked to him every day for about two and a half months. Wow. I didn't get clearance to talk to him before the movie started. Like the movie starts and the schedules and it is just crazy. The pace of making a movie is wild. And so I didn't have time

to go down and actually meet him when we were shooting. But I'm after the movie comes out and all this press and everything is done, I'm going to go down and see him because I finally have clearance. But you know, it's weird when you have so many like questions. or expectations or projections onto somebody and then you just have a conversation with them on the phone in the first 15 seconds of the call all those questions went away

and he kind of takes care of you he's just this like very sweet and like genuinely interested human and actually he's funny he takes care of you on the phone call in a way like you know because you don't kind of know how to do it and he and he does

And he'd be like, I read somewhere that, you know, your daughter likes Irish Celtic dancing. Where'd that come from? And he's just such a fascinating person. And I found myself genuinely just becoming so enamored with him as just a, you know, I was like, man, I really like this guy. And if not, like, I really love him. And I kind of have to love all the people that I play on some level.

Even the, like, the bad guys, I have to somehow find my way into, like, caring about them in a different way. But, yeah. Someone who comes across as a thinker, and I say that with the utmost respect, is there a different type of anxiety that comes with playing someone who is a real life person who is alive, as opposed to a Mark Schultz, great film Foxcatcher loved it, who isn't here. And so you don't have to hear from him necessarily and say like, hey, you know, you did this, you did that. And then as opposed to like a fictional character who you'll never have to hear from. Right. Yes, is the answer the very clean and short answer is definitely yes um playing someone that's real i you know i don't

know i always hate even even playing a soldier or something is really hard i have to really try to like i don't know talk myself into it because there's something kind of i don't know sacred i think about what anyone of service does um but someone that's real that has lived and has had that truth yeah i do i think you should take it a little bit more serious and you can't take liberties exactly foxcatcher was unique in the way that uh mark shultz was involved really really heavily i hung you know he was on set i wrestled him it was you know intense the guy's brilliant and and also fascinating and that one kind of broke my heart to be honest like i know that we had we got really close and he he really liked my performance but he wasn't i think at the end of the day happy

with the movie. There were certain elements of the movie that I think he didn't agree with and ultimately those aren't in my power to control in a way that's the director. And I think, you know, that was unfortunate. So it can be a little bit of a traumatic experience and I did address that with Jeff on the phone.

I was like, hey, look, we're going to go make this movie, man, but I need to prepare you like, you know, I can't imagine what it would be like for somebody to come to me and be like, hey, I'm going to play you in a movie. like it that would be not only terrifying but I would just be like how is this going to work and I really let him know that I'm never going to be him I'm not I'm like I've one never met you in person person so I'm not going to be able to mimic anything that your mannerisms or anything I had four pictures to go on about the way he looked and I and ultimately just I don't know

probably 60 plus phone calls um and that was it and then obviously obviously Obviously, Derek, the director, I think he'd done 400 hours of phone calls with Jeff and then all the people connected to the story. But ultimately, the movie is going to be some strange baby of Jeff Re-Manchester, the actually, you know, guy that did all this, all these things in real life, myself that, you know, interprets who I'm hearing and experiencing over the phone. And then Derek, Sienfranz, the director that is going to essentially, like, feather all of these perspectives. kind of together to tell the most thematic and interesting and fun story. I mean, and he is the director to do that with, I don't know, if you've seen a place beyond the pines or Blue Valentine, God, I mean, so many, he's like one of my favorite filmmakers, so it's, it was an honor to get to work with him.

Over a decade ago, you worked with Kung Lee on a film called Fighting, and I remember when that came out, and you guys were buddies. I remember you were at UFC 139, I think, when he fought in San Jose. And I remember him also saying that if you wanted to be a fighter, you could have been a fighter. Is that to him just like, you know, just kind of being nice to his famous co-star, or is that a legit thing? Yeah, no. Yeah, no. Cug's hilarious.

I love him. We had a really good time on the movie, and we just stayed buddies afterwards. And I just, I've always loved fighting. And, you know, I remember passing around tapes in high school of the early UFC days. Like, you know, the whole, the tape would literally just go around the entire school. And so I've just been a fan of this thing. And Kung was such an exciting fighter. I mean, he was pulling moves that you only do in video games at a, you know, even when he was in pride.

I'm sorry, not pride. Strike force. Strike force, Jesus. Yeah. And even when he was in strike force, I mean, he was just, he was doing things that you literally were like, that only is in Tekken. And they're like, it's crazy. So maybe you can't be a fighter, but maybe you know about weight cutting, because I did see a post about just like your weight transformation. I know you're not doing drastic weight cutting here, but this is kind of wild.

Like, I mean, this is, by the way, for the record, the middle pick, I would be thrilled to have that middle pick just for the record. You say that as like the bad time. How difficult, you know, now you're getting a little older, right? 45, you still look fantastic, but how difficult is this on the body to do this for roles? It's tough. I don't, man, I can't imagine. Imagine what, like, fighters, like, how many years they just shave off of their life cutting that much? It just, what it does to your insides. And, like, I mean, I don't even do it as fast as they do it. Like, I can lose, I used to be able to lose weight, like, really quickly. I could fluctuate almost 25 to 30 pounds in three weeks. This cut was, I did a movie where I had to kind of do a dad bod sort of a thing. And fortunately or unfortunately,

when I get fat, it kind of goes everywhere. I don't just get like a big belly or whatever. And I was two, and I think in that middle photo, I was about 245. And then in that, in the last photo, I was about 172. Wow. And that, yeah, it was a big cut. I only planned to get down to like 185. And then, I don't know, once you kind of get in a rhythm and shooting is very, you can

have a consistent life. You know, my life in general isn't very consistent. and once you start you know i was fasting from from when i woke up to about two or three every day and then i'd have two you know small meals of meat and vegetables and that was sort of my it was sort of just my plan and just light long cardio and it does like it as soon as you get past like that second week it can it gets easier when you don't have to like drop it fast and i you know i've never i've only seen you know kong and certain other fighters that i'm sort of you know I talked to a little bit, or I've seen have to cut, like, quickly because, you know, you're not in camp, like, doing this long, sort of, like, well, I haven't experienced one that, you know, you're doing this long sort of cut where it's healthy and then you, and then you don't bounce back. You know, most people just lose it right at the very end, and then they put it back on, put at least partially back on, you know, fight night or day before the fight.

Right. And I'll let you go in a moment again. This has been great, and I really appreciate the time. I wanted to ask you about a story. that we've been talking about here for the last week, and that's the Smashing Machine, the movie that Wayne Johnson is in. And I guess, you know, I don't really follow it to this level. I loved it. I loved the documentary, Mark Kerr's a legend, but I guess it didn't do great at the box office.

And Dwayne posted something that I wanted to get your take on. He posted, in our storytelling world, you can't control box office results, but what I realized, you can't control is your performance and your commitment to completely disappear and go elsewhere. And I will always run to that opportunity. It was my honor to transform. in this role for my director, Benny Safdi.

The truth is, this film has changed my life. And so do you understand what he is saying here? Because people are saying, like, oh, this was a failure. But he's saying, like, I didn't do it for the box office. Is that just Hollywood nonsense? Or is there truth there, in your opinion? No, no, there's absolute truth there. You know, look, this is a game, right?

Like, this thing that we get to do. We have one of the best jobs on the planet. We get to play the most, the highest stakes make-believe game in the world essentially. And what I've learned is that, you know, I've done movies where I've been like, oh, this is, I want to do this movie because I think it's going to be successful. And, you know, that was the intention. And then, you know, the movie isn't successful or the movie doesn't turn out well.

Like, it's hard to make a movie, much less a good movie. A good movie is almost impossible to make. So what I've learned is the experience of doing the films, even if they never come out, even if they never make a dollar, you better. have enjoyed that part, that time of your life that you spent and whatever sacrifices that you made, whether it was time away from your kids or your family or just, you know, we're privileged and lucky enough to, you know, like The Rock is and, or Dwayne is, and I am as well to be able to pick our jobs. And, you know, that's a, it is. It is a real luxury and a privilege to be able to do

that, but you still have to, you know, it still work and it still takes time and it's still hard at times and I think that movie specifically I think is unfortunate that Taylor Swift came out with her with her thing on that weekend and I think it was you know it's kind of unfair I don't care if you're even the rock like you know Taylor's Taylor and and you're just not going to be able to like stop that thing it's a it's a it's an unmovable object or something like you just it's a yeah it's the thing I thought it was unfortunate also I don't even I I don't even look at it as a failure like i i know i haven't even seen the movie yet and and i didn't even see the documentary so i i'm so excited to see it i think this is such a good year of

movies by the way like you know with the pta movie with leo and i i i haven't seen any of these things because we've been doing press for this and traveling and whatnot but it i'm i'm just so excited for movies this year and and i i don't know i i'm excited to be a part of a really good movie and even if our movie doesn't make money i'll be so proud of it like it just i will be because the process of making this movie with one of my favorite filmmakers changed me as a human and ultimately like i got to meet somebody meaning jeffrey manchester that i think i learned from i think his experiences his mistakes that's why i love movies you get to watch people fall down you get to watch people mess up you get to watch people

make irrevocable you know like irreversible decisions and that's what's beautiful about movies you get to project yourself into those things and have kind of have some sort of kernel of experience and so I love stories in general and yeah so that's I think I learned a lot from this movie last quick one if I may magic mic was great but I love big sexy Kevin Nash in it and I thought he was tremendous what was it like any any memories of working with him all of them i i so much me and kevin i i mean he's like a he's like a big brother or an uncle or something i mean he we didn't have to write anything for him he's a one of the most you have you had him on the show never never he doesn't like to do a lot of him on the show i

promise you you will love it disappointed he's the most fascinating human you think whatever your projection of kevin nash is it will supersede your expectations like we remember the first day on magic mic one i hadn't really hung up out with him very much other than meeting him and i saw his audition tape or whatever and obviously knew him from you know his his whole career in the w w f wwee all all of them and and um the minute one where we go in and we're just sort of sitting in this back kitchen area and uh where all like the strippers get ready and he's he's just casually in a conversation with uh joe manganello about Marxism and Cubism and like all these all these isms that I had no idea how to even be in the conversation and they're just like chopping it up about things that you would never guess that they even like would talk about or knew of and he's just a fascinating dichotomy of like he you know he truly is like a giant gladiator of our time and then also just like a true renaissance

man or something like i don't know how to explain it he loves he'll talk to you like till you're blue in the face about like some of the best wines he's ever had i mean he's he's just a he's just a he's just a fascinating person and i love him to death and he's just is unapologetically himself he cannot not be himself and i don't know that's well i'll always cherish him well this has been great thank you so much for doing this really appreciate you guys you man Thank you for having you on a phenomenal career on a great movie coming out this Friday called Roofman. And for at least one time, the women in my life caring about my show for 20 or so minutes. So thank you for giving me that gift.

I appreciate it. I appreciate you very much, man. All the best. Please keep doing what you're doing. I'm such a fan. Thank you, Cheney. I appreciate it. There he is.

The great, the legendary, the inimitable Channing Tatum movie comes out October the 10th. And it's great. It's a great story. It's a coming-of-age story. It's heartwarming. And it's a true story, and I love those as well. I do want to correct myself. He played Mark Schultz in Foxcatcher.

Mark Schultz is still with us. Dave Schultz was obviously the one who passed away as a result of the actions depicted in that film with John DuPont. So I wanted to correct myself. The question still stands, obviously, about playing a real person as opposed to a fictional character, but I hate making mistakes, and I was fixated on that. So I was moving quickly there. My apologies to Mark Schultz and to anyone related.

to him. All right, still to come. Raven, we're going to talk about his upcoming documentary, and that is an amazing one as well. It comes out in just a few days' time, so we're very much in the movie scene, but it is always great to catch up with the headman over at Matchroom. Oh, yes, Frank. Thank you for reminding me, Frank. A lot going on in his world. Two shows this coming weekend, this Saturday, one in Sheffield, one very close to us here in Philadelphia, Dave Allen, U.K. Boots Ennis over here, stateside. A lot to talk to Eddie Hearn about. Let's say hello to him. Let's not keep him waiting any longer. There he is. It's rare that we have someone who is potentially better looking than Eddie Hearn on the program. Who is that? That was Channing Tatum. I mean, it's kind of a big deal, no?

It's 50-50. You know who he is. He's very good looking guy. He's a very good, but like back to back with you two, this is lovely. Poor Channing. Yeah. How are you? How are you? I'm fantastic here. It's so good to have you. I wasn't sure if you were ever going to come back on. Of course, but I just noticed you had Frank Smith on. Yes. You had Sam Jones on.

I did, yes. I mean, I kind of feel like it used to be a little bit more exclusive. Okay, you felt like it was a bigger deal. Like to get on Ariel, the Ariel Horwani show was actually a massive thing. Yes. Now, you know, it's kind of like if I'm in New York. So is that why you've been a little bit? Low key.

Yeah. No, no. No, I just, I don't beg for it anymore. Okay. Well, you're a Netflix star now. This is also true. This is, yeah. Channing Tatum, Netflix star.

You've started well, Ariel. Has life changed. for you since the Netflix. No, it's just, I think what I've realized is boxing. I don't know if it's the same with MMA, but it's an incredibly toxic sport and environment. You just learned this. No, I've learned it a lot over the years,

but it's made me realize how much more I thought it was by people's response to the Netflix show, which was actually really pleasant. Okay. Because it's different, like obviously boxing people watched it. Yeah. But the general audience, the casual sports fan or, you know, they watched it. And the response and the comments are actually quite nice.

Like normally you open up social media and it's like, you know, you have to kind of like just take it for what it is. But this was like, I'll just say, really enjoyed the series. Like your relationship with your dad. Yeah. Like I love the company. Didn't really know about darts. You know, we're going to start following it now. And that was the real reason, away from, you know, ego, the real reason that we did the show is because of the success of driving.

to survive. I watched that show and I wrote to box to box and I said, you need to do one for boxing. You wrote them specifically. Wow. If you think for me, this was like four years ago. It's actually around COVID time and we were due a meeting and COVID happened and it kind of got backtracked. Then they came and they did a pilot for boxing. And whilst they did it, they spent a lot of time in the office with me and my dad and they went to some darts and they were like, we actually You want to do it on matrim. Like, so kind of, I call it Drive to Survive Meets Succession. Yeah.

Because you've got the intrinsic relationship of kind of father, son, family business, and then you've got the sports world. And, you know, I think boxing, also people don't realize the size of our company and also the value of darts. Like when you tell to people that darts is twice the size of boxing in terms of our business, people just can't understand it. And, you know, that goes to show you boxing. There's such noise in boxing, but as a business,

you know it's it's sometimes not as solid as something like darts where kind of like we have that ownership of the sport rather than just we're a promoter within it um so yeah it's been it's been really pleasant the numbers were great it's uh top 10 most like shows on netflix right now it's in the top five for a couple of weeks millions audience around the world and that's good for us as well like there's a method to it wasn't just yeah you know and uh will there be a second season i think it's inevitable yeah i think are they filming already no we're not filming it like that down that was the hard thing about I think to be honest

I will embrace it a lot more in the second series because it was a pain like they're very good at what they do but they're everywhere and you're miced all the time so you know when you get him ready for a show they're in the room

you go to the show you go to the way in the press comments you're miced they're there you finish the show you drive home they're in the car with you and it's like after a while especially like when AJ loses

or something like that and the guy's going do you mind if I'll just jump in with you And I'm like, honestly, mate, not, but they're very good at finding their way in. Okay. Did you ever say no? I didn't know, no, not really. But I just feel like there are a couple of...

Talk with your dad about like his, he's ill at one point. We're a strange family. I mean, look, even my dad says in the show, like, my son's my project. Yeah, yeah. And for a lot of people, that's really difficult to kind of understand. But that's just our family. That's how it's always been. And my dad is, he's not, you know, he's not a normal guy.

I mean, he wouldn't have achieved what he's achieved if he was a normal guy. Right. And people that do spectacular things are a little bit out there, and they're not like normal people. And, you know, he's kind of raised me to be like a, you know, like him, which is good in some ways and not so good in other ways. Because he's, you know, I mean, I'm cold. He's ice cold.

So, you know, but that's just the way that he's always been throughout his life. And, you know, I think people see that in, I mean, he, he, he, he, lapped it up. He lapped it out. Oh, yeah, no, he was great. I've had so many messages about my that, your dad is a legend. I'm saying like, you know, a lot of the time, you're so busy, you're, you're filming this stuff and you're not really playing up to the camera because you kind of forget it's there, whereas him, he'd come in and he's like, let me tell you something, so, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, come on. So he enjoyed it a lot. It's brilliant. If anyone hasn't seen it, I highly recommend it. Um, okay, you had a bit of a quiet stretch last couple

weeks, and now you come back with two shows on the same day. Now, I have to say, I, I understand Boots is big for the business, but there's a part of me that's actually a little disappointed you're not with Dave Allen. Yeah. Because the dynamic between you two is very fun. He's, he, I don't know if you know who Mick Foley is.

Mick Foley is the pro wrestler who is sort of like the every man. He didn't look like a superstar. And that's, Dave Allen might be like one of my favorite characters in combat right now, just because of the way he conducts himself. Why did you choose Boots over day? It was a decision that was made quite a long time ago. Um,

I have to be honest, Boots is the future of our business in America. I mean, a huge part of it. And 2026 will see us taking a whole new dynamic stroke level to the American market. And, you know, Dave is Dave. I love him. We don't know what the future holds, right?

He could lose on Saturday, being brutally honest. He could win and go on and fight Wilder or whatever. But longer term, you know, the future for Dave. is probably quite, so just the bigger picture of, you know, boots as where I think he's going to be in 2026. Don't forget the guy's 28 years of age. I mean, he's, you know, he's 10 years younger than Terrence Crawford. I mean, and I believe he's going to be a multi-division world champion. I actually believe he's going to be pound for pound number one. Wow. So I kind of had to, you know, and I love boots as well, and I kind of had to just use the head a little bit

rather than just the heart. I hate doing two shows on the same night. Hate it. Why did you do it? because the venue in Philadelphia landed, the availability landed the same time, then the zone quite like the idea of a mega night of boxing across the Atlantic. And you know, jokes aside about Mr. Smith, I can't do this forever. And like, if we go to where I need to and want to go,

we are gonna have shows on the same night in different countries. So it's good for Frank to be leading that the Helmi's doing a great job and being part of a massive show like that. But I will, be watching it like a hawk because i can't wait for the fight i mean you talk about mick foley like every now and again someone comes along that just completely captures the imagination of the general

public and that is dave allen dave allen was out on his arse aerial two years ago like not even in the game we were joking we're going to have about we have probably close to nine thousand in there on saturday which is one of the biggest shows ever in sheffield arena boxing show one of the biggest shows I've ever done. He's sold nearly 2,000 tickets just out of his own hand, like from people messaging him, right? He said two years ago, fought in Sheffield, I sold 23 tickets. Wow. The turnaround is quite phenomenal. And he's just, he's the working class hero. He's the guy that is so honest and down to earth. You know, he's on Instagram live. He's like, last night, you know, oh, did the face to face. He's a big lump. Oh, there goes. You know, I hope I don't get

flattened. But so he's just, he speaks from the heart. Yeah. People love him. And I was saying today, like, I actually think DeZone are going to do really big numbers with him on Saturday. The ticket sales are phenomenal. If he wins on Saturday and does it well, he actually becomes quite a powerful player in the heavyweight landscape. I'm not saying he's going to go and beat Alexander Usik, but you can start putting his name in the hat for basically everybody but Usik. You know, people, oh, would you ever put him with AJ? I mean, like, who knows? I mean, Chazora, yes.

Wilder, absolutely. You know, even guys like Talma, you know, it's a very tough fight, but Dave's a serious guy. He's going to get the call for all those fights. Hergovich, yes, please. Kabayout, Zhang. Like, there's literally 10 fights. And all I want for Dave Allen is I want him to get,

we had a little bit of a standing joke where his dream was to get an onsuit, right? Do you know what that is in the, that is like your own bathroom? Your own bathroom, okay. In your bedroom. Okay, okay, okay. Because he said, I'm sick and tired of. going downstairs for a piss in the night, right? So he wanted his own

onsuit. So after the last fight and the one before, he bought a new house, he's got an unsweet. So he's on social media, he's like, watch this everybody, and he sort of gets out of bed and walks to his own toilet. I want Dave to have one of those, you know, the houses that are so big that you've got the intercom

in the electric gates. And I just want to see him walking around, you know, in his tracksuit bottoms and t-shirt and his crocks with his kids in the garden just going, I can't believe what happened to me. I made it. Because that for me is sometimes far better than any legacy or any belts.

You know, and to one day turn up, if I'm up there around Sheffield, just buzz on the electric gates and go, Dave, it's Eddie, let us in. And just to see him open that big door with a smile on his face and go, I made it. That, for me, is why we're in the game. And when it happens to someone like Dave, it's so rare in boxing, so rare. So we should embrace it. And Saturday's not going to be easy for him. I mean, it's a real 50-50, but if he can hang in there, I think he stops him.

And if he does, not just the arena, but the country will go nuts for him. Because like I said, he's just a real down-to-earth working-class hero. In this day and age where it feels like athletes are very sort of removed and hard to relate to, he's like a Cinderella man, even like the face-to-face that they had that you guys posted the... We said to him, we always say to the fighters. I've never say push up or do this, but like a little bit of interaction. Yeah, yeah, no, it's tremendous. And we said, I think someone said to Dave, because I said yesterday,

oh, Lehman's quite fired up for the boots fight, you know, so he might be a bit in the face-to-face. I said, great. And someone said, yeah, I spoke to Dave, see if he'd give us a bit of good content, but Dave's Dave, and then next thing, he's like, hello, nice to be here. Speaking French and German, but that's Dave, yeah. You can, you should never, and you can never take that out of him, because that's Dave Allen.

But what he is, he's a very tough man, and he's actually a lot more talented than people give him credit for i mean johnny fisher was a bit unlucky that dave kind of turned it all around and started taking it seriously because otherwise he would have beat him quite comfortably but this dave allen he's a very tough man but mac mudov's a different kind of monster i mean for three or four rounds it'll be horrible yeah horrible but if he comes through it will knock him out did you like the underwear shots hilarious yeah but that makes him lovable yeah the fact that he's willing to do that yeah you know One of the greatest things in life is to not care,

like as in he has absolutely no regard for what people think of him, right? He's more than happy to go out there and do an underwear shoot with a big belly, right? And by the way, the belly's pretty much gone now. It's crazy, yeah. But that's just Dave, and that's what makes him what he is. You know, I've sat with Dave Allen. I've had a dozen conversations where I've just, you know, you're just wasting your life and wasting your career.

and the turnaround is phenomenal because like I said to you he was done he was done he was fighting on small hall shows for $500 over six rounds like just just to you know

because boxing's what I do now you know he's had three paydays that are you know close to seven figures you know combined and now if he wins this I said to him you'll get the seven figure payday next time out maybe even more and that's the one that changes your life forever

because like I said with boots and Dave it's two very different with Dave I'm not looking at Dave to become World Heavyweight Champion I'm just looking at Dave to live a great life that's it I'm looking at Boots to secure a legacy

within the sport and be one of the greatest fighters of our generation that's how good this young man is so it needs that big fight though well he does but look when is it the next one he just fought the best fighter in his division in Stanionis sure right

and he battered him and he's number two boots was the other one now what he asked for and what I think is the right thing to do is give me a top 10 guy and by the way this lemur is very very tough you'll see on saturday he's a good fighter and then put me in with whoever you want you know i spoke to eric gomez yesterday from golden boy we had a meeting me oscar eric gomez and all of disown we agreed terms for ennis against ortiz we went away we signed our contract based on those terms

with enis so we're in and eric called me yesterday said look just wanted to let you know we've got lubin coming up which is a good fight in a couple of weeks after that let's get it done and and i believe they'll be true to oscar wants to make great fights as well enis against ortiz one of the best but i'm telling you now ortees fundora mertzelyev zayas he goes through them like a butter through knife and i mean i mean these is good i mean these are big fights i just want to see him in these fights because i can't sit here and preach that he's the next pound for pound number one in the sport unless we go through those guys so we did it a well to wait, it's done now.

What you're about to see on Saturday is something completely different from boots. At 147, he was physically depleted and he was still ice in the best in the division. This guy, for me, he's the next Crawford. And what I want to do is I want him to have this fight look great, fight Ortiz, fight a Fondora, whoever,

then we want Crawford. When Crawford's ready to come back, and he'll only come back for massive money, and he's the man right now. So we have to get ourselves in a position where people go, wow. But I'm telling you now, Boots against Crawford is just, you're talking about that for me. But we've got to do, I've got to back up the resume with everything that I've been talking about. And we will.

Congrats on Ben Whitaker. Thank you. I think the world of him. You told us a couple weeks ago. You said you thought you had him when he first turned pro. And then 11th hour, he went in a different direction. The video was great. Your acting chop's not bad between this one and the.

the brand one with Frank from a few months ago. Honestly, though, how difficult was it? Because I would imagine every promoter under the sun was trying to sign him. You know, a lot of people don't know, but we agreed terms with Ben Whittaker three years ago. We filmed a promo with him. Wow. Whilst the lawyers were tying up the contract, literally with a few minor bits and pieces, we filmed the promo.

We should actually, we've still got it. You should, yeah. Yeah. It's funny. And then one day later, they came back. And they said, look, Boxer have just come up with this money that we can't like, you know, and he's, he's going to take it. He can't not take it. And we're like, what?

We've just filmed the promo. And I was gutted for a long time because see with Ben Whittaker, people see the showmanship, people see the viral clips, the Instagram numbers. They don't realize that for the last eight years, this guy's been one of the best on the amateur scene. Like, everybody knows, Rob McCrack and all those guys in the GB setup. He was phenomenal. You know, he was an Olympic silver medalist and he was devastated to win silver, devastated. Like most people thought he'd win gold.

I'm not signing Ben Whittaker just because he's a huge name and he's got a huge social media following. I'm signing him to become world champion at light heavyweight and to be in those kind of fights. Of course, Callum, Yard, Boazzi. But beyond that, that's the ability of this man. This isn't like a social media sensation. This is an elite fighter.

So for two or three years I'm watching him and every time he does his and I'm like You know even my kids My oldest daughter She talks about Ben Whittaker She doesn't even follow boxing Have you got that Ben Whittaker?

I'm like Well nearly So then you know And I always say like You know Until a fighter becomes available It's all hearsay And when we got the call

From his lawyers To say we're ready You know We're free A few weeks ago Or months or whatever it was We made a play It wasn't cheap

But I believe in him And when I look stars within certain markets he's right up there yeah he gets it but what I'm saying is he gets it commercially he's done a great job self-promoting his social media numbers are insane but me being the boxing fanatic I'm signing him for what I believe he can be as a fighter and that is an elite world champion and if we get it right you know I have quite a quick turn around here we need to get him a little bit active I want to bring him over here to fight over here as well If we get it right and we build him in the right way,

Andy Lee's in the corner, I think he's got the perfect setup now, if he can deliver what I think he can in the ring with the profile, with the swag, you know. I mean, Alex Haynes is, as you know, one of the best content guys in the world. One of? Yeah, I'll say the, but yeah, I've got to be careful.

Capital T, is he in here? Oh, no, no, no. The show me the money clip was actually Ben's idea. Oh, wow. I mean, Alex put it together, brilliant. Yeah. But that was, and the way that he delivered it, that was him.

he did a great job yeah he's a showman you know and when's the debut it's going to be end of november we'll be announcing a new show shortly but uk yeah just a quick we need to get him out quickly i don't want to wait till next year name opponent or yeah good we're looking for a top 15 guy in the world i mean you know ben's been very inactive he's still not really had that many fights at any kind of level if i'm honest um and i'm looking for two to three fights quickly you know amongst that kind of world level and then we start pushing him in with the names that I said you know I mean I like you know Willie Hutchinson those kind of guys but you know Boatsy yard obviously Callum's our guy as well but you know those those kind of fights if those guys aren't winning world titles there's some

big fights out there to be made and you know this guy's going to put bums on seats everyone's got an opinion of him love hate he don't care it's a massive coup there's this fascinating thing going on in boxing because I think boxing is doing great and we see everything happening in Netflix all But boxer, you know, they're losing guys like Ben Whitaker. Top rank still doesn't have a TV deal here in the United States and worldwide. PBC feels like a little on and off. I know they have the show coming up with Keith Thurman and Fondora and all that stuff. What do you make of the state of your competition?

And you may give me the line that, you know, Dana White likes to say, is like, I compete against the movies, I compete against the NFL, and I get that, your entertainment. But the state of the competition right now feels... Well, I can't compete against other promoters. and I compete against the boxing industry. That's what I compete against. And, you know, we can bluff ourselves and say, you know,

we're not movies, we're not NFL, we're not NBA, we're boxing. So maybe this interview a few years ago would have told you we are poised to dominate boxing globally, which we've been doing, but dominate it in the markets that count, particularly the US. Like if you look right now, our stable, our TV deal, you know the momentum that we have maybe the Netflix show

maybe our position within the Middle East maybe our position as a business who else is primed to make the play in US boxing like us the knowledgeable me and that there I say humble me just knows that anything can happen so we're not taking our eyes off the ball

we know that our roster our fighters are unbelievably placed to be active, to be paid well, and to be manoeuvred into world championship positions. Our competitors either don't have TV deals or don't have a TV deal like us. So we're in a fantastic position, but the goading, which I've done in the past,

is a thing of the past. I'm actually looking to work with those guys to make great fights. Everything's changed now. we've got a new force in the world of boxing and we're going in a completely different direction and to do that I need to make the greatest fights in the sport with the help of other people

not just the new force Dana White T-K-O-K-O-K-O-K I just want I thought first you were talking about Turkey but you mean no Turkey is a false but Turkey's very smart you know Turkey will Turkey's never going to not work with everybody yeah in my opinion and I love the way he does it Look at, you know, you've got a boxer in their position, you say, oh, they're not in a very good position. He comes in and goes, you know what, I'll give you a sponsorship deal.

Because that's the kind of thing that he does. He wants everybody to have a little bit of bread in their mouth, and he wants to support the industry. It's quite rare, to be honest with you. Other people aren't like that. So, you know, in the position that we're in now, with the zone, with the success of their platform, with the budget, in my mind it's a straight race with me and dana for boxing right and i've never been so excited like do you know like and and i heard him say the other day you know eddie's gone all oscar do i thought it was a bizarre comment let's talk about this yeah i mean i thought it's really bizarre

like if you listen to what i say about dana you'll never hear me speak negatively about him he's been very good good to me i really respect him but you have to understand that my life is the sport of boxing and our company. When you say publicly that you're coming into the sport and you're going to dominate the sport and you're going to be CEO of boxing and you know, what do you want me to do? Roll over and let you tickle my belly?

No. And when you come out and you say, you know, people like Eddie Hearn, they don't really have the vision. They don't think big. Think big. I mean, if I've ever been accused of many things, that's one thing I've never been accused of. And that, all that does is it puts a fire in my belly, but I need that fire.

I live for that shit, you know, and I can't wait to take him on. I've actually, you know, I've looked at him before in the past thinking, God, he's really good at what he does. What a great business, TKO is. Imagine competing with them. Now we're competitors. So all these people on our side, because you've got the new wave here, right you've got this zuffer belt you've got we're going to make a building you're

going to refer to it as a Mickey Mouse Mickey Mouse belt you said I mean I'm I've had those conversations before the reality is no fighter with any ambition wants to fight for a Zuffer boxing belt I'm sorry it will just be fighters that really have a great opportunity to to make some money and be part of something or someone that's sold out within the spool and just wants to take the money You ask any young fighter, and I have my differences with the WBC and all the governing bodies. If we didn't have our differences, we'd be doing something wrong. Let me tell you something now. The WBC is a legacy, and it is part of the absolute history of the sport or boxing.

You know the fighters that have had that belt around their waist? I mean, these are heroes. These are trailblazers. These are some of the greatest names in sporting history that young fighters look at those pictures and say, I want to win the WBC title. You think that if I tried to convince my guys, yeah, guys, we're going to create a matron belt now?

They'll tell me, no. I don't want to win the WBC world title, the WBA, the WBA, the IBF. We moan about the politics and rightfully so. Sometimes they make some bad decisions. But you cannot underestimate the history and the legacy of those belts. And for me now, I'm doubling down, right?

I'm all about the belts. The ring magazine belt, unbelievable. Even before Turkey got involved, I said, that's the belt with no politics, an independent ranking system, no sanction fees. So that's a big part of what we do. But I'm doubling down on the belts. What does that mean? It means I want to see my guys win world championships, create history and legacy in a sport.

I don't want a new belt. I don't want to change the ring I don't want a funky canvas cover I don't I'm going boxing this is this is in my blood this is in my heart the sport of boxing the greatest sport

in my opinion in the world the drama the glory the pain of defeat the stories everything and I want to follow into the traditions

and greatness of the sport so we all need to come together and we're always going to argue us and Bob and Oscar but we need to make great fights so rather than me coming in and saying yeah my broadcast position PBC top rate no we want to forge

stronger relationships with those people so we can make bigger fights together we can work together on the zone we can work together on other platforms but when we come out firing in 2026 I want the fight fans to go wow look at that schedule and what we're building at the moment

but Dana coming in is actually brilliant for the sport because what it does is it just rattles and rallies everybody up so right now he comes out and he says that now when he says it my blood's not pumping around my body and I'm not but I'm going yeah let's go

is it personal no because I don't feel that way to it not be personal this is your life's works your family's life work it's not like Dana's not an idiot he knows I'm for real now he's arrogant enough as I am and egotistical enough

as I am to go like in my opinion I'm going to spank him in boxing right in my opinion he can't lace my boots in boxing but maybe I'm deluded and maybe I'm so arrogant and egotistical

that I'm going to get it wrong but that's what I truly believe when I see him at the press conference it's like look there's loads of talk about me going into MMA the reality is can I be a success yes is it in my heart

not at the moment right maybe it finds a way into my life. Have you considered it? Yeah, there's loads of, everyone, right now in boxing, it's this perception of Eddie V Dana. And people want me to make that play in MMA on a big business level. And it's a great story. But the reality is, in MMA, Dana is so passionate about the UFC and about the fights that when he stands up and goes, what's up everybody? And he does this. That's, that's from here, right? It's not from here. And it's not from, oh, tell me who's fighting again. He just

knows. He just gets it. When he's talking about the undercard of Crawford against Canello and he's reading off a bit of paper, it's just not the same. You see, and that's like me in boxing. But they are an unbelievably powerful organisation. They're an incredibly smart organisation. And I'm also not an idiot to think they're just going to come in and like, you know, it's not going to be a success. I'm sure what they're going to do is a success. But I feel like it gives me the opportunity to double down for boxing right and and I really feel like we can get the support of the boxing fans and and I think with the schedule that we're going to put together I'm just excited like I just I'm always motivated but when that when he says things like that again's the last time you spoke to him

not for a while actually maybe a few months there's not been any conversations I think he was happy with my comments and my interviews but as far as I'm concerned when I when I listen to him back I'll give him all the credit in the world you just can't expect to you know if I turn around today and started speaking to the media saying I'm going into MMA and I'm going to take over MMA and I'm going to be the new boss of MMA

I'd expect him to give an interview and go yeah who's this tosser so I'm not saying that I'm just saying if it's going to be Eddie V Dana like even when I say that I can't tell you the excitement because you want to test yourself against the best he's the best you know he's the best

MMA promoter in the world, one of the greatest fight sports promoters of all the world in the world, and I'm going to take him on in boxing. How good is that? Little old me from Essex, have you seen the Netflix series? See where we come from? We're just from over there, and we're taking on the world. What do you think of this paramount deal? It's very, like, again, these people, Errol,

they're unbelievably influential and powerful. Tico's a great business. Nick Kahn, Mark Shapiro, that. They're really bright guys. But there's just a difference to to knowing it and feeling it and living it and loving it to maybe this is a good move for the business. There seems to be some sort of sentiment like, hey, like as you said, these guys are trying

to change the sport, change the structure. And then when he's asked by CBS sports, like about the Ali Act, he says, no, we're not trying and change anything. And ultimately, you could choose to fight under the old Ali Act or our version of the Ali Act. I don't think, correct me if I'm wrong, you would know better than I. I don't think it works that way, right? You can't pick and choose what terms to fight under here in the United States. Who knows how they can manipulate a system?

The reality is this. The problem with the Ali Act for them is you have to disclose to the fighters, the revenue of the show, particularly from the broadcaster. Do you think that's what this is all about? I mean, I think there's many different facets. But that is a major problem because they will be receiving a significant rights fee deal from Paramount. And when you look at what they're paying the talent, especially if you're in a league format, and I know the guys they've signed, they're getting 50 grand, 100 grand. I mean, like this kind of level, right?

And if when you're making millions in a rights fee deal and the talent is getting such a small percentage, that's going to cause a problem. That's why you imagine that if the MMA fighters, the UFC fighters, could see in black and white on Fight Week the revenue that the UFC were making from the show. And then you turn around and go, I'm getting how much? And they've got a bigger problem because if they want to play in the big boy leagues of boxing, which I think they will at times, they're going to have to pay the fighters, purses that quite frankly, commercially, as we all know, because we all do it, are the wrong number for the fight.

But you're going to have a situation where a boxer is making three or four times more than the main event on the UFC card and the revenue is more for the UFC card than it is for the boxing. Do what I mean? And they can't afford for the talent to see the numbers. That's the true for the situation. Because as we always say,

you know, when we look at a P&L, 60, 70, sometimes 80% of that PNET of the revenue is going to the fighters. But in MMA, I think it's probably more like 20 or 30%. and you know better than me if you've got a guy who's on an undercard who's making two million dollars who you've never even heard of

and this main event UFC guy is making a million dollars doesn't the UFC guy go I don't quite understand what's happening here so I think it's a greater threat potentially to their UFC business you know and how seriously they want to how much time and attention they're going to actually put into boxing

because boxing is something that's unbelievably draining and requires 24-7 attention, as I've said before on this show, sleeping with your eye open. And I don't think they're going to be about that life. One thing that I found was interesting when they signed the UFC Paramount deal, we found out what the terms were. They were released. When they signed their WWE deals, we found out what the terms were. Those sports don't have a structure in place in which a fighter could say, wait a second, you're getting this much, I need to partake in X amount. Boxing does. And guess what? what, as we sit here today, we don't know what the terms are for the Paramount deal.

Coincidence? Yeah, you, you won't do because, you know, like any manager within boxing, the first question they might ask me is how much you're getting from the zone for the fight. And sometimes, a lot of the time, as you know, with AJ, the way we do that, it's open book. Because we're not afraid to show you the model and how much revenue we disperse to a fighter and to the undercard. Because we have to do it anyway over here under the Muhammad Ali Act, you know? So if I'm a manager and I'm saying, because in boxing, you think that you would do a pay-per-view show and your main event and you turn around and you go, yeah, and you have no interest in seeing the actual revenue of the show.

They don't. Under the UFC model, you're pretty much told what to do, aren't you? I mean, this is what you're getting. See you there. What time does the UFC fire to go, hang on a minute. How much money is in the pot here? You kind of need me, don't you? I mean, I'm the talent.

Without me, do you even have a show? Yeah, maybe you can put someone else on. But I've just sold this arena out. I'm just racking you up four or five hundred thousand pay-per-view buyers. I'd like to actually see, you know, that's when, when we get a fighter of that size and magnitude, like Anthony Joshua, we'll go, you own the show. So you imagine you said to a star in the UFC, right, it's your show. and we're going to have open book and you're going to take 80% of the profit of the show and we take 20%.

Imagine how much the UFC fighters would be making. Five, six, seven times more than they're making at the moment. And this conversation probably isn't making me that popular. But that's the true for the situation. The UFC guys are fighting without any understanding of how much revenues in the pot. And these guys don't care because, and by the way, it's their business. they can do what they want. If they can get away with that model, good luck to them.

But in that model where it's a league or it's a contender series and the guys are getting 50 if you win this fight and 100 and then 200, it's peanuts. How much they get them from Paramount? You know, if it's multi-million dollars per show for the rights fee, which it probably will be, the profit is unbelievable. And that probably won't work in boxing. but I don't necessarily think this contender series

and undefeated fighters and guys that will fight anyone with all due respect it's kind of been done before have they come after any of your fighters recently like even a Ben Whitaker are you are you no I don't think they want that even lower no but I mean like I think Ben's expensive

they would look at Ben Whittaker and think my God that's a lot of money because don't forget they're probably also thinking about their UFC wages and going well it you know in UFC this guy's main event in for that kind of money, and we're doing a massive gate, and we've got pay-per-view.

So I think their model will be the league, the content, whatever they want to call it, and then I think they'll delve in to some big shows during the year. Like what we just saw with Crawford and Canello. There wasn't a show. See, I don't think. The reality is, is, I don't know the numbers, but there was probably a loss on that show because of the deal that Turkey did with Canello and Crawford. And, you know, he really looks after the fighters and, you know, the costs involved in a Saudi Riyadh season show.

Maybe not, but there's a very good chance. They won't want to get involved in a fight like that, with a risk like that, with the potential of making a loss. Now, every big fight we do runs the risk of making a loss. That's just boxing. You just hope that the numbers, you know, are good enough and solid enough at the end, that it's a profitable game. And, you know, the bigger you get, the less chances you have to take in that respect. So don't forget, and I keep saying, like, you know, he came out and he went, you know, I've done the biggest shows in boxing. Crawford, that wasn't a Dana White show.

That was the brainchild of, that was the vision of, and that was funded by Turkey Alashake. Now, if you want to say Mayweather against Connor, who was one of the biggest fights of all time, do me a favor. It was a bloke making his debut. I mean, don't get me wrong, the numbers were great. But, again, that's where I'm saying. where we're going you know and

yeah I'm just I've since since the interviews and all that kind of stuff it's just given me just just had a great spring in my step

so I'm excited and we might lose you're looking at me going you ain't losing Edna I'm just I'm enjoying seeing this competitive side

of you come out for years when you talk with Turkey does this come up he loves it I'm sure he does listen I've been talking to Turkey about MMR

like he wow well tell us about this mma stuff but it's just like it's just you know does he want you to go into mma because i think maybe he enjoys right he enjoys where on here absolutely he loves the fuckery yeah turkey let's not come to me and told me to go into mama but wouldn't it be fun i mean are you considering this put it this way if i'm an m mma business right now yeah it's a hell of a story right it is it is is this something you're considering I mean, by the way, Europe is wide open right now. There is nothing going on, and there's so much talent there, and it's so popular. I feel like I could have a huge influence and a huge presence in MMA with the way that I promote.

What's stopping you? Just time, and I don't want to, you know, we've got a massive opportunity in boxing right now, as I said. I really feel like when you break it down like you did, it doesn't. taking a genius to realize the position that matrim are in and i've got to get it right but i too love the fuckery and that announcement would be fun wouldn't it oh my gosh but listen you know anything could happen anything could happen um coming in 2026 matronmama may well look now you're gonna start you know no what you've opened the door yeah no i'm just saying that it would be interesting wouldn't it yes it would you know it would

I mean, you imagine a press comment where I turn out and say, you're going to take over boxing? You're coming for me in boxing? Yeah. Guess what? I'm coming for you in MMA, baby. You know?

But that's the cut. Things like that are actually, some people take that personally. Some people realize how good that actually is for the sport. Like Dana coming into boxing. I've said it before, I say it again. It's great for boxing.

It is great for boxing. What they, the product they might do, maybe fight fans don't like, but it's still, it's like Jake Paul. You can't. say that Jake Paul isn't good for boxing. He is. And he's not a YouTuber anymore. He's a fighter that's just doing things differently. It's all part of the ecosystem of boxing. You know, Jake bought Netflix in originally. I mean, that's the reality of, you know, the Mike Tyson fight.

Now they do Canello Crawford. Now they're doing Jake against Tank. Who knows what they're going to do in the future? You know, with them making that investment, DeZone start doubling down a little bit. We've got to make sure our schedule's better than ever. you understand so it's actually it's all good and you have to ask yourself why why is dana white coming into boxing because it's red hot that's why and there's money to be made so you know we're we're in we're in a great great time for boxing where do we stand with chris eubank junior you were very it seemed bothered by some of the comments at insinuations that he made accusations are you exploring legal action towards them i mean look firstly like

for some reason Chris doesn't really particularly like me at all you know I don't mind the guy I think he's a little bit odd at times but like I respect him especially after the first fight I mean what they both did in that fight was phenomenal but you can have backwards and forwards and you can stop talking me at press and stuff like that when you tell me that we or I or matrim stopped your ambulance from going to the hospital to deliberately delight

I actually couldn't believe what I was hearing And if you watch it about, he said it. And I went, can you just say that again? I can't. Because, and then he doubles down in an interview with Coogan Cassius, and he's saying, you know, if it was more serious, someone could lose their life in that situation. Like, that for me is not a joke.

And maybe in his head, he really feels that that is true. I don't believe so. But we've written to them to say, here's exactly what happened. Everything's logged in a situation like that. Here's the report from Tottenham. Here's a report from the paramedic. Here's a report for the British boxing border control. Now, you know, we believe it's defamation, but at the same time, no problem.

You just have to say, I got it wrong. The stubbornness actually go, I'm not apologising. Okay. And then you're in this tug of war at that point. What do you do? Do you move forward? But it's something that just bothers me. And some people, you know, people that don't fight for anything,

people that actually don't have fire in their heart go, oh does it matter yeah it does matter it really matters to me and if it didn't matter to me I wouldn't bother because I'm not really like that you have to really say something that's bang out of order for me to have that kind of reaction because over the years I've just let so much bounce off me so much bullshit you read just like whatever but then someone says something like that and you go no I'm not having that we haven't worked for 40 years to develop a reputation in the business where you accuse me of stopping an ambulance from leaving to make a fighter get seen to in hospital please find that unbelievably disrespectful so yeah that's what we're in

and and you know maybe he'll have the you know the um not even the sense just just the kind of just have enough about him to go well fair enough i still think you're a tosser huh but i got that one wrong that's pay-per-view right yes over the summer i remember the announcement like we're going to get rid of pay-per-view on his own but there have been several paper views you know i believe that was an announcement from Turkey out of shake. And I saw Shai there, the CEO of the company. I mean, the reality is, we've been here before. Yes, we have.

And for me, pay-per-view is an absolute necessity within the sport. It's just what's pay-per-view, right? Don't forget, when DeZone came into the marketplace, it was a product built on subscription, not on pay-per-view. But they didn't have Canelo Alvarez. And what happened was, originally, the plan for DeZone was never. paper view. Then John Skipper sits down with Canello Alvarez and Canello Averas says, right, I want 35 million a fight or 30 million a fire or whatever it's going to be. And you look at the business and

you go that that's actually impossible if we don't do pay-per-view. But guess what? We've got a chance to get Canello here, but we're going to have to do pay-per-view. That's really what happened. And now I just feel like, and I've said this for a while, I just feel like there's too much pay-per-view. Sure. And I think what's happened with his excellency is he's probably looked at the pay-per-view numbers and gone, I think it's more beneficial to get a bigger audience. Absolutely. Because the revenue for him might not be as important. So actually, what if we make that part of the subscription or we make a subscription package

where we get a bigger audience watching the product, which is very, very important? But then you do a fight that will do half a million buyers like Eubank Ben. That, of course. You bank Ben in America, in my opinion, shouldn't be pay-per-view. Yeah, I mean, that's a separate conversation about the mechanics with DeZone. as in what's pay-per-view in what market. Right. We used to get a lot of criticism when I was at Sky

because you'd do a UK fight on pay-per-view and free in America. That was at a time where there was no disowned. So I could do Anthony Joshua against Vladimir Klitsko for 25 pounds. But in America, you can watch it on Showtime or HBO. And the UK fans going, how does this work? Why am I paying for it?

But you're not paying for it in America. It's actually quite bizarre. That's what we do here with UFC, by the way. UFC's on pay-per-view here. You don't have to pay for it on TNT sports in the UK. So I just think that there are certain fights for certain markets that shouldn't be pay-per-view. Joseph Parker versus, you know, isn't a pay-per-view fight in America? Do you agree?

100%. It's a great fight. I agree. But how do you grow the sport in these fighters and these names if they're behind the paywall of the paywall? There's two paywall. I agree. Right? I agree.

So how do we fix this? And UFC's now getting rid of pay-per-view. So why don't we just get rid of it, all of it? Because you can't, because the fights can't get made. You know, for the same reason we talked about earlier with the fighter purses and the distribution of purses, the rights fees don't exist to cover the pay-per-view revenue. So you've got a choice as a broadcaster and a platform. We do that fight on pay-per-view, or we just don't do it. And I would much rather work with a broadcaster that has the facility and the ability to run a pay-per-view model.

Look at Ben Eubank. If there was no pay-per-view on the zone, we wouldn't be able to do Ben Eubank on the zone. And we'd have to let that fight go. So for me, fewer paper views, but the ability to have the pay-per-view model to create the revenue needed for said superfights, that's it. And there are a lot of fights that simply aren't pay-per-view that land on pay-per-view. And I think, you know, I think probably his excellency's looked at the ring cards like maybe Belanger Shiraz and Shakur, and the time the numbers have been spat out, maybe there's a better model.

if you're only achieving a certain amount of revenue. But if you're banking 500,000 buyers, you can't expect the broadcaster to pay the same revenue as a rights fee for a show like that. Right. So I think the bigger problem is too many pay-per-views versus pay-per-view in general. But we are quite a bizarre sport because away from boxing in UFC,

what is pay-per-view? I mean, you've got the biggest sports in the world. There's no paper. Yeah, yeah. So it's just the history of the sport. Okay, I'll let you go in three minutes. Can I hit you some quick ones? Sure.

Shikor Stevenson, coming back to Matrim or not? I don't know. I mean, I think depends on the offers where he's going to fight. I mean, obviously, I'm exclusive to DeZone. Right. And there's another example, really. If you're in the Shakur business, you really have to put him on pay-per-view for the money he's making. You know, and what is the pay-per-view fight?

Potentially Tiofimo Lopez, you know, there hasn't been a whole load of conversations with him, if I'm honest. And I'm not really, it's not really my start. area as well you know i'm not going to go around and drive around his house and bang on the door and sit outside till he has a conversation with me if you want to be with matrim great so like the lopez fight you're not involved probably not the moment i mean you know if there's an opportunity to do it on de zone quite possibly but again there's a fight how big is that fight i mean that's a brilliant fight chakur's one of the best fight how big is that fight what what do the numbers spit out um but he's you know he's one of the best fighters in the world deal with de zone is done end of 26 right when do you

start now yeah are you free to talk to anyone or is there no no i mean look i think it's a very interesting landscape particularly with recent signings our position globally the netflix show you know it's a good time for us yes i've made it clear i want to stay with this i you know i haven't worked for eight years for this platform to build it or help build it into the position it is to not try and double down and take it to the next level the global element of having one broadcaster and one message wherever I go has always been a massive attraction to us. Doesn't matter if we're in Mexico

in Australia, in America, in the Middle East in the UK, this is where you see Eddie Hearn and Matrim's boxing, live on the zone. So yeah, we're talking and I'm very confident we can get a deal done.

You know, again, I've given a lot of blood and guts to the platform. You know, I'm putting a lot of hard yards. I mean, especially early on, look, we had a massive deal. But it was tough early you know and you know you've got arum out there Leonard Ellaby dead zone this who wants to fight on an app what you know and now they're all like they're either on there or they're all asking to be on there and I feel like quite it's been a personal project as well

so yeah I'm a disown man and it's where I want to stay will we find out AJ's I don't think he's fighting this year but will we find out this year his next assignment yeah I mean I was with him in Dubai and he's good to he's had a bit of a rough time and obviously the defeat I think sometimes people don't realize how much that gets you

that defeat on that kind of level then he had the injury of his elbow he was told to rest it rested it for a couple of months went back into camp still there then he's got to have an operation then it's another three months and it's like at this point

are you still hungry for it and he asked me to come and see him in Dubai and I know he's hungry for it and it's quite funny actually he said because it's very difficult when you've been out of the ring for 12 plus months and you've got a sudden and you've just got beat right

in the fashion that he did and you've got to go back into quite a like a testing fight when you're at that level you don't really get the opportunity for a run out does that make sense and he was like you know a lot of these fighters they can't like just an eight or a ten rounder

just to wrap the hands and go out and boom get a bit you know a lot of fighters do that don't they like they go to Mexico and they have kind of I said, I said, unfortunately, mate, you're Anthony Joshua.

So I can't hide you on an undercard in Mexico. But he's that motivated now that he wants to get active. But everything's about getting yourself into a position for the Tyson Fury fight. And, you know,

you saw Frank Warren come out this week. He spoke to Fury. He wants back in. Shock horror. And the reality is that Turkey Alashake wants to make the biggest fights in the world. Fury A.J.

is, in my opinion, in the biggest fight in boxing right now and Turkey Alashai wants to make that fight when I was with him last week there was some conversations about how a plan might look for AJ and he would have those conversations with Tyson Fury

he's not failed yet Turkey Alashake and one of his greatest legacies to the British fight fan would be the guy that made Fury against AJ and I'm very confident he can do so I just want to make sure that when that time comes AJ's firing on all cylinders

Because Fury all have a warm-up Now he's been out of the ring for a year coming up as well We want to make sure that when those two meet In a battle for the ages They're both primed for battle And I'd love it I mean it's the only conversation I've had with AJ Where I look into his eyes about Tyson Fury

And I just see something different actual a little bit of dislike you know like I want to break his face you know and I've not really seen that from AJ before and it would be such a shame if these two didn't meet like I feel like it would kind of always be

the one question post career for everybody me included where people say you never made that fight did you so Terkella shakes the man for those kind of moments because he can individual but if it was me negotiating with Frank Warren and Spencer and Tyson Fury but Turkey has the ability

to say right Eddie this is your deal Anthony are you happy we're in boom that's one side done let me go and take care of this and when that's done we got it and you know 2026 I believe you'll see AJ against Tyson Fury everything crossed well

congrats Netflix Ben Whitaker matchroom MMA there's a lot to be excited there's a few sound bites for you thank you thank you so much double header on the zone this Saturday David Allen and Sheffield. Tremendous Boots Ennis in Philly. Always a great scene. Thank you, Eddie.

Appreciate it. Take quick break back with Raven. Don't go anywhere. Tremendous stuff there from G.C. This was when he was on Team Erie last week, showing much love to. Yeah, the Czech cuisine. Show that afterwards. I mean, you guys picked it.

Makes me really look like a... Do you know what it looks like? D1 All-American Hall of Fame Glazer. No, I was going to say it looks performative. Who me? Wow, I have so many thoughts about that last interview with Eddie Hearn. That was tremendous stuff. Perhaps we'll dissect a little bit, digest some of it on the back end of our last interview.

In a matter of seconds, we're going to be joined by our final guest of the day. What a day it has been. Carlos Elberg, Paul Hughes, Dan Hooker, Channing, Tatum, Eddie Hearn. And in a matter of seconds, we're going to be joined by the man who was once known as Johnny the Body, Johnny Polo, Scott Levy, Scotty the Body, but really known and beloved as Raven. Quote the Raven Nevermore, one of the all-time great pro wrestling characters, at times, complex, diabolical, philosophical, one of the most interesting, fascinating human beings that has ever graced any squared circle. A real legend from the ECW days, WCW, of course,

had a run in WWE and TNA towards the end of his career. And I was always a huge fan, and I just saw his new documentary, which is going to be out soon around the world. And I'm going to tell you about all the different places in which you can experience it, including some stops where you can actually watch it with the man himself. It's called Nevermore. It's a fantastic, honest, candid, raw look at the man, Scott Levy and the character Raven. We're speaking to the one and only Raven on the program right here and now. Hello, Raven. How are you? Hello, Scott. It's great. I don't know. Do I call you Raven? Do I call you Scott? I'm not sure because I feel like you're one and the same. Yeah. Business is Raven. My personal friends call me Scott. So we've just met.

All right. Well, we'll stick with Sir. You know, I always appreciated you for so many reasons. I was a gigantic admirer of the way in which you conducted yourself, your persona, all that and more. But if I'm being a thousand percent honest with you, I thought it was so damn cool that there was a guy in the 90s doing what you were doing, acting and dressing the way in which you did, and you were Jewish as well. Like that before Goldberg, as a fellow Jew saying like, that dude, I would tell my friends, that guy's Jewish. Raven, the grunge guy, the Nirvana guy, that guy is Jewish. And so I hope you know that there were millions of kids probably around the world and in America in particular who loved you

because you were the very cool Jew. Thank you. That means a lot. Although, I got to be honest, I'm not really religious. I wasn't even bar mitzvahed, so, you know. You never associated. You never practiced. Never practiced. But you had a very Jewish name. You had a very Jewish name. It's Jewish as it gets. Well, it's so great to meet you and congratulations on the documentary. Was Is the documentary, your idea? Because like I said, very raw, very open, very honest, or did someone approach you with this idea? Jordy Day, the director, he heard me on Steve Austin's podcast, and he thought I'd make a fascinating, his words, a fascinating subject for a documentary. He's already done one on Bob Probert.

I don't know if you've seen that one. Of course, yes, the hockey goon. Yeah, he did that, and he did a Charles Manson one before that. and he heard me on Austin's podcast and he either called me or emailed me I forget which and said he wanted to make a documentary and I'm you know first thought he's full of shit and then um then I when I realized he wasn't and I saw that he had a you know made some movies made some documentaries who were quite good I figured yeah but I told him I said there's only one condition that that's rewards and all it has to be all the negative as well as the positive

I don't want just a rah-rah piece. It's the reason I never wrote a book. Well, not the main reason I never wrote a book is I'm too lazy. But besides that is I wanted to write all the negative and all the positive in there. And it would have been a six book series to cover it all. I just figured this is the easier way of telling my story and seeing if it helps anybody. and so why why is that important for you

why would you want that most people don't want the warts to be exposed most people don't want that because that's not interesting it's not it's not a complete subject matter it's not a complete bio then and because of my baggage I think I wanted people to understand me you understand where I came from

understand my what I what I went through and to see why I am the way I am, which is, I'm either loved or hated by people, you know, but there's a good reason for that. You know, what's interesting to me is that it feels like back end, like the recent years, you've kind of, you know, and you talk about this in the documentary, you talk about like, you know, I don't want to be bothered. I just want to live my life. I want to be home. I want to be with my wife and now you open yourself up in the biggest way possible right you show us everything and so

at any point was there any hesitancy in in saying like oh gosh i kind of like sailed off into the sunset and now here i am back in the biggest of ways no because that's that's why like i would never have a reality show i would never not that anybody's asking but i would never do a reality show and you know where they came to your home and a you know and they expose your whole life because my current life is really you don't see much of it in the documentary it just basically you know it glimpses it but it doesn't you know go into the details of everyday life which would be really boring to begin it to you know to you know besides the point but it doesn't i don't think I think it shows me and it shows all my complexity throughout my life, but now that I'm

more, now that I'm content, or basically as content as I've ever been, other than the stupid tremor I got from the Parkinson's, got early on said Parkinson's, so if you see me tremor in, that's why. But other than that, you know, it's, I don't think it really touches on enough of my uh current life to do any damage to it i i noticed i noticed that in the film um that you were suffering uh from that how are you doing now how how does it affect you on a day-to-day basis i'm lucky it hasn't affected me too bad it just when i get anxious the tremor gets worse or when i'm really tired and i have a sleep disorder so it uh you know but i when i pay to you know but look you got to pay the piper sometimes you know you got to for all the drugs

and alcohol and chair shots I took to the head. You know, you got to pay for the damage at some point. Do you think this is as a result of everything that you did back in your career? Of course. Okay. Absolutely, yeah. Do you have regrets? Oh, I got tons of regrets.

Anybody who says they don't have regrets is full of shit. I got tons of regrets. I got tons of things I would do that would have done different. But I didn't. They made me who I am and I'm happy with who I am. and I would rather be happy with who I am at the end of my life than be happy and then earlier in my life and not happy at the end. It's like so many people's lives, they come to, you know,

they come to misfortune at the end, and that would be the worst thing you could have happen. You know, I want my golden years to be golden, not, you know, not, you know, shit. Right. When did you get to that point? Because it definitely feels like, and you know, the persona back in the day, what about Raven and you're not getting pushed? And you talk about those frustrations in WWE, not liking your position. How did you get to the point of being content? And did you ever think that there was a point where you would never get content? Never, yeah, I was really worried about that. But I spent time on a therapist's couch. Like for the

longest time, I didn't think my career was a success because I wasn't the world champion of WWE, which is still, which is really ridiculous. You know, I just held myself to such a high standard that, you know, but as my therapist said, you're the one holding yourself to that standard. You're the one, you can also let yourself off the hook, too. You know, and besides, it's kind of arrogant to think that you're that, you know, that you think so highly of yourself that you have to be held to a higher standard and that kind of triggered something with me and made me realize that you don't have to hold yourself to a higher standard you know because if anybody else would have came up to me and said hey your career was amazing you know i mean i'm sorry if

somebody would have come up to me and said i don't think my career is amazing and it would have been what i've done my career i'd have said you're insane you know but because i held myself to a higher standard there's a lot of people that are successful do you you pay the price for it mentally, emotionally. How long ago was that, this conversation with your therapist and coming to that realization? Is that just recently? No, it's been, okay, the conversation with the therapist was back in the early 2000s. Oh, wow.

And, but it, you know, but it still didn't sing. I mean, it sunk in, but it didn't, it didn't, it didn't, it didn't totally, you know, it's like, you know, you can, like ideas can be very simple, like, you know, do better, you know, but putting those into practice takes a lot more time, you know. So even though I knew that, which he told me was true, it still took me years to put it into practice. I appreciate you saying what you said about regrets because I also feel like people are full of shit when they say they have no regrets. I don't know how that's possible. certainly do. Can I ask from your career, from your life, what is your biggest regret? Is there

one that you wish you could take back? I wish, there's a lot, there's so many things, but I wish that my, on the sidebar, my dad was a really funny guy, and I always wanted to be funny like him, but his sense of humor was insult humor and so it was like Don Rickles was like having Don Rickles for a father and you being the target and so I knew he loved me even though he couldn't say it but because of that I thought that I was okay and I wasn't being damaging myself come on a little kid you know how to you know my dad's making fun of me it destroyed my sense of self-worth and so I wish I would have dealt with gone to the therapist years earlier and dealt with that and also not

also not treated my friends the way my dad treated me so i insulted all my friends and i thought it was funny it's in good taste you know what i mean but it's you know you know your friends don't want to be insulted by you constantly is this is not covered in the dock and i feel like i know the answer but do you have any kids no i would never i wouldn't i wouldn't do that because i if i was going to have a kid i would want to devote 100 of my efforts to it and i don't have the time or to effort or the agency to do it, you know. Okay. I do have to say one of the revelations from the film, which again is fantastic, it's

called Nevermore, and I do want to let people know October 11th and 12th, which is what this Saturday and Sunday, you're going to be in Philadelphia at the Phila M-O-C-O-M-O-C-M-A and also October 22nd in Baltimore at the Charles Theater, October 28th at the Plaza Theater in Atlanta, Georgia for screenings. and you'll be there watching and being able to meet people a Q&A afterwards as well. To me, one of the revelations, if I'm being 100% honest with you, was your wife. Your wife seems very different than what I would expect, like, your typical, you know, wrestler wife to be very intellectual.

Let me make a distinction. She's my life partner. Okay, I'm sorry. We were married. We were married. We got divorced to save the friendship. Oh, wow. And then we became closer, and we've even got gotten even close.

closer now and we get closer all the time so it's great but it's well we're no longer married we're just life partners wow so you don't live together no we do live together that's the thing we yeah that's the thing wait how long were you married for actually married uh seven eight years I guess and then and then you get divorced and how long are you divorced for we've been divorced ever since well I mean like not really like together like you know now you're sort of back together. I know not officially married, but like, how long is that... Yeah, but we never stopped. Okay. Wow.

We've been together really, I mean, we basically got divorced to save the friendship because the friendship was being ruined by the marriage. This is fascinating. I married my best friend, you know what I mean? How long did you know her? Did you know her before you were a pro wrestler? No, no. Okay. Okay. She just came across this very, to me, intellectual, and as are you, and you're different than a lot of pro wrestlers

and the way she spoke about you and your health and your career was quite refreshing, I thought. Yeah, she's the reason I stay with her. It's like, I don't want to be with anybody else. You know, there's no one I love more on this planet. You know, it's, I'm lucky that I got to marry my best friend, get divorced my best friend,

and still become even closer friends. Do you have any intentions of remorse? marrying her? Yeah, probably. Probably. Probably do it this year. Okay. Mazel tov. Yeah, thank you. John Kippert. Yep, yep, yep. That too. That just happened. There is a moment, though, where she talks about, like, the constant fear for your life,

for your health, because there obviously is this thing, this issue where pro-wrestlers do unfortunately die young. Do you share that same fear? Because she gets very emotional talking about this, I can imagine. Do you feel? Do you feel? fear that same thing. You've witnessed a lot. You've seen some of your friends, unfortunately, you know, have their lives cut short. Do you think about that? Do you worry about that? No, not to be glib, but I was on the Deadpool list for years, you know, at the top of the heap. And no, I don't think so. I don't feel that way, you know, but I don't want to, I don't want to live forever either because I don't want to be old. Like, this is what I, this is my theory on old age.

Old age ain't for pussies. You got to be tough. to get old, you know, between all the frailties and infirmities and all that. So, you know, 80 sounds about right. Okay. Well, you still got some time. But yeah, I got, I'm 61 now, so, and I figure we're going to die, me and Selena want to die at the same time. So that way neither one of us has to be alone without the other. Okay. Sometimes you can't really plan that, though. Oh, we're planning in that. Okay, all right. We're putting it out into the atmosphere. We're putting it out into the universe. Okay. Did she meet you while you were ECW Raven, WCW Raven? What point in your life? WCW Raven. Okay. And we had met earlier, but we didn't start seeing each other until T&A Raven, I think.

at the at the height of your popularity for lack of a better word did you live the gimmick were you that guy that we saw on tv or were you able to shut it off well the gimmick is me you know it's in it's my internal baggage and complexities and tortured poet poetic soul so to speak um it's just me multiplied to to a hundred you know but but the problem was is that see life in our Art imitated life originally, that's how I created Raven, but then art I started to, then life started to imitate art and I became more depraved because I felt like I had to live up to the character. Hmm. Is that when you got to WWF?

No, WCW, I think I was in my peak. I got clean right before I went to WWF. When you say clean, what do you mean? I got off drugs. Okay, and when you say drugs, do you mean PDs or like recreational drugs? Recreational. Okay. You talk a lot about recreational drugs in the dock, but not so much about PEDs. Did you do that as well? Oh, yeah.

Everyone did. Yeah. But I would have done them anyway because I wanted to be a bodybuilder. I mean, I wanted to look like a bodybuilder in my, you know, my whole life. So, but I got those Jewish genetics that are only good for brain function, but not too good for physicality. Wait a second. At the beginning of this conversation, you shunned your Jewish side.

Now you can't blame us for your bad genetics. I mean, it's one of the other. No, it's both. It's both because that's what I, but I praise the Jewish for the brain power I got. Okay, fair enough, fair enough. As far as when you look back, the work that you're most proud of, perhaps the feud, the stretch of time that you're most proud of, what would you say it is?

Probably ECW. Like, when I got there, the baby faces were, all being booed. The heels are all being cheered. Nothing was right with the world. And I said I'm going to make sure that I'm going to be a heel. Everybody who fights me is going to be a baby face because everybody thought that the heel baby face dynamic was passe at that point. And I refuse to believe that because you have to have the heel baby face dynamic to truly have the great matches. And so I made it a point that I was going to be a heel and everyone I followed be a baby face and uh and it swung the company back around you know all ego aside it was really

polly had even thought that the dynamic was gone when you left me when you when you when you left and you're being showered with you sold out did that hurt you did that hurt your feelings that break your heart no because I'm a heel I love being a heel when I got it when I was put in a T&A Hall of Fame I actually even said you know I'd like around the booze Because I feel, because of my strange upbringing, I equate like the booze to me or the real praise. You know, if you can get people to hate you, to truly hate you in my business, you know, that's saying something. And that's where I thrive and revel in. So you didn't take it personally when they said that.

No. that's what of course I would have taken a personal if they didn't say that right that's a good point why do you think it never worked out in WWE the way in which you wanted it to work out because because I know why because I can answer really quickly because when I was there before is Johnny Polo I was um I was uh basically I had Vince his kid out Shane out to the wee hours of the morning every night, drinking. You know, I left a bad impression. Let's just go with dad. I left a really bad impression. You were friends with Shane. Yeah, we were really good friends. It was funny. Like, all the boys thought, oh, you're just kissing his ass hanging out with him

every night. I'm like, no, I go, I'm burying myself because no dad wants their son out until four in the morning with a reprobate like me. What was Shane like back then? Did he, did he realize that, you know, at some point he's going to be the guy, did he think, maybe didn't quite work out that way take over the company was he that kind of kid or was he humble yeah you know that's what he was he was humble but he also knew he was taking over the company or he thought he was right but you also correct me if i'm wrong did you not have a good relationship with vinson that you were kind of helping with the creative and all that i was uh i was a i was associate producer monday night raw yeah i was being i was being

groomed to be on the booking committee but i was also obnoxious and i also had to be I had to be the smartest guy in the room, even if I wasn't, and I had to make sure everybody knew that. And that's just, this is no way to behave. That's no way to, you know, that's not a good attitude to have. And you think you were for, you know, I don't know, punished? Like, do you think like 15 or so years later, you're punished for this, 10 or so years later? And that's why they didn't push you. That's why you didn't get the opportunities when you came back post-WCW purchase? Yeah. I mean, I think that had something to do. do with it you know um and i yeah i mean i that's the only thing i can think of you know because

it wasn't for lack of talent you know it wasn't for lack of skill or character i mean i'm one of these guys to book you know when you left were you done with the business like the t and a run seemed to have ended things on a good note for you but did you feel so disappointed with the run in WWF that you thought you know what I'm done with this when I left WWE I was really disappointed with my run and I was glad TNA was something I could fall back on and have a final run that it was it was you know if not they were still the number two company even if they weren't as you know anywhere as big as WCW had been you know so I got seven good years

out of them probably and by then the body was starting to you know to getting in bad shape, you know, from injuries and stuff. And, you know, I think it all worked out the way it should have. Do you watch wrestling now? No, I stop watching. You know what I stopped watching was when they had the Alliance angle in 2000 and something. But Alliance? That was like 2001. Yeah, I stopped watching because I got so disenchanted that they had all this talent.

They didn't use it and just, it was so disappointing. but you were in the midst of all of that yeah i know and so i stopped watching it and i i still loved doing it but and it was still my job you know but i didn't want to watch it wow to watch it to you i mean i would watch it if i went to show sure sure i wouldn't go home and watch a tv wow that's what ruined it for you that's amazing and even now also well here's the other thing too is someone complete it so i got to watch everything you know it's like you know and there's so much wrestling on TV, I get, you know, it's just too much. Too much for it. I try to watch M.A. You like M.M.A. I've been a humongous fan since the Rock's movie, since I mean,

Mark Kerr's documentary, Smasher Machine came out. That's what turned me on to being an MMA fan. And, you know, now it's come full circle with the movie of it. Wow. I thought you were going to say, since you saw The Rock's movie, you've been a huge fan. And I was like, well, that was five days ago that it came out. You're talking about 2002, HBO. Wow. And you still watch till this day yeah i watch it religiously come on when you're a funny story please i was always i always um i would always say like why don't they check kicks like now people do check kicks yeah i was always like why aren't they checking the kicks and so me and selina were watching one night and uh we're laying in bed watching a ufc pay-per-view and wideman checks uh yeah

and silver's leg and i jump up in the bed and i go yes see i told you all you got to do is check kicks and you get and you'll uh you know you'll prosper whatever yeah yeah and she's like shut up sit down and then and then it happened to him sadly of course as well yeah what that is the craziest thing insane so who do you like now who do you like watching i love anybody with talent you know anybody like i love um like okay like i was watching last weekend i like chris gutierras and i love watching him but he didn't put it like he didn't come out and put on his usual kick show you know what i mean no wait a second scott levy raven now i think i could call you scott now we're buds yeah sure or mish bachas they say you're i thought you were going to

give me like connor mcgregor you're giving me chris goodierrez yeah i was disappointed in this performance though this weekend um i loved the uh i loved alex perere you know he knows i so had a feeling he was going to win too you know what i mean like it just the guy he says he wasn't he was only 40 percent he probably means it because he never says anything like that you know what mean so you can probably take his you know um what about marab do you like marab do you like marab yeah i like marab but i thought sandhagen was going to win this is great this is blowing my mind actually that you know so what about the yury comeback uh year yeah oh i was so like i loved this comeback but I was so sad for Khalil oh my god so wanted Khalil to win you know what I mean like

I really felt like that was his moment and then he took the face plant I was like oh man that's that's you know apparently when you take a face plant in a real fight that's a whole lot different than a face plan and pro wrestling sure sure would you like to see Alex fight John Jones or stay at 205 honestly I want to see him fight Tom Aspinall but it just the size is so different you know what I mean you know I want to see him win three belts I mean the guy from from what you would call it what is it with the rug rugs in it in the league what league is that again pfl yeah not pfl the the other one was rug rug and uh you're talking about rug one one championship stop it yeah so listen so one the guy won three belts in three

different divisions, but the divisions are kind of screwyer, though. Yes, they are. You're talking about Anatoly Malkin. Yes, that's what I'm talking about. What? You watch one championship, too? Yeah, and I couldn't believe it when Sergio Pettus beat Pitbull, beat Pitbull when he tried to win a third belt. And then Sergio Pettis, what a comeback he had

on last weekend. You're watching PFL in Dubai also? Yeah, big news, Paul. Stop it, Ray. I really thought he was going to win. Someone's telling you this in your ear, right? No, I'm a huge fan. I told you.

I watch this shit religiously. You watch Paul Hughes get screwed by the... I'm calling it the debacle in Dubai. That's what I'm calling it. Yeah, and I had to buy ESPN Select. I had to get ESPN unlimited to watch it. What a scam. This is unbelievable.

Wow. I'm dying to talk to you about MMA, but I wanted to do my documentary, you serve. Where have you been this whole time, Raven? I mean, we would have had you long ago. I didn't know you were such a hardcore fan. Yeah, but it's kind of hard to impress upon the world that you're a hardcore fan unless you're going to go on social media religiously and...

Yeah. Or you have to watch the fights as they happen. I'm always like an hour or two behind so I can skip through the commercials. Sure. And so I can't comment, I can't social media comment on the fights because it'd be like two hours later, you know, and I'm like to be kind of stupid. This is, this is mind-blowing stuff. Have you ever been to a UFC?

No, and I, and I've intentionally not gone because I love the commentary. Wow. You know, I mean, I figure it's got to be exciting to be there in person, but now I'm old and beat up, you know what I mean? Like, I guess I would go if I'd be, you know what the, I know the other reason I don't go is, is I don't know if I'd get VIP seating and I don't want to go and sit with the Slim Eels. Yeah, no, I get that. I get that. I get that. What about this weekend, Charles O'Levara?

I used to listen to your podcast with D.C. religiously. Oh, my God. The fact... That was so good. I know. They ruined it. They screwed us. You got a much better deal. Well, I was the one, Scott, I was the one saying, what about me? What about, like, where... I was you. I was the one being, you know, disposed of. And I felt like I was a big part of it all. And they just, They kicked me to the curve. I thought you just had a got a better deal of where... No, I did, but the respect was lacking. You know, I've been through a lot. Just like you, I've had my own trials and tribulations. Yeah, you got heat with Dana White and you were out the door. I got heat with Dana White. I've always wanted someone to say that to me. I got heat with

Dana White. That's incredible. Can I ask Mateus Gamrod versus Charles Oliveira? Who do you like? I go Lavera. Yeah. He's coming back quickly. He just got knocked out. Yeah, here's my, the problem is, is Charles, I don't know if it's just, if it's because I'm such a big fanful of them that I, did I feel he's going to win or if it's going to be my actual opinion because, you know, he's on the way, he's like on a step downward. Yeah. And Matush is on the way up. And, you know, I don't know, Matush is not a popular person because all he does is wrestle. But that's right. I think he's like Marab, though.

He does a lot more than, he puts in more of the time than just the wrestling time. He puts, you know, he's willing to mix it up. What about JDM versus Islam? You think JDM beats him? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I got to see him stand next to each other. Yeah. If Islam's the same size, I think he wins.

But if he's a lot smaller, then I don't know. Okay, can I? I love the way JDM was defended, takedowns against, who was it? he fought below below well yeah he just he would just get lower he just got lower and he would shoulder check him and uh it was really fascinating to watch you know because he basically belal spams takedowns and uh and jdm just spammed blocking the takedowns are you excited that connor may be coming back i believe it when i see it the wrestling business has made me so jaded They're like, I don't get excited, but like,

Selena always says, she goes, why aren't you excited? I'm like, you know, I'll be excited when it happens. Like when the event comes, like I was really looking forward to this, but I didn't get excited until we started talking because so many things in the business, I'm so used to in a wrestling business where things are supposed to happen and they don't, you know, so it just saves you from heartache so you just, you know, you don't get excited about stuff

until you're actually doing it. But see how I'm lit up I am now, now that we're done talking about the documentary and we're talking about MMA? Yo, I mean, I wish I, honestly, I wish I would have known this years ago. This could have been, we could have had our own show. We could have had the Raven Recap every Monday

after the big fights. Yeah, we could still do that. We could still do that. You're right. John Jones, did he duck Tom Aspinall? God, it's hard to, you know, it's like there really isn't any other way to put it, but you know he can't be scared of him.

I think it's more, he was he had the fear that that he might lose and I don't think he was scared to fight the guy I think he was scared to have the blemish on his record at the end of his career because he knows he's not in his best shape you know but I also thought it was really amazing of uh like I didn't get the subtext at first when um when Pierre Piero um mentioned uh yep his brother oh yeah his brother passing away and um I thought it was just he was just he was just just being gentlemanly, but I didn't realize that he was actually going to call out John Jones originally.

Yeah. No, he clarified that. I thought the same as well. I thought he was just trying to be nice. And then afterwards, he said he didn't feel like it was appropriate. I can't believe you just... Very classy. Very classy.

I mean, back in the days, like when you were in the lock rooms, were other guys watching with you? Are you, like, back there, you know, watching pay-per-views on a Saturday before going out or when you're on the road? back then back in the day I didn't but now that I have a phone now I'll watch it you know I'll watch it on my phone on the pay-per-views when I'm on the road but I haven't been on the road a whole lot the last couple of years because in 22 I had both knees replaced 23 I had my shoulder replaced 24-eyed spinal stenosis flare up wow and so so I've been just rehab and rehab rehab

rehab rehab rehab in terms of your day-to-day life do you feel comfortable do you feel like you can do what you need to do or is is every day a bit of a struggle no the only real struggle is the exhaustion from the uh sleep disorder okay what's that um it's a it's a lot of things you're not actually sure there's no actual term for it but i've had eight sleep studies and and uh basically it's part narcolepsy part uh um apnea part apnea part narcolepsy part a little bit of everything i wear a mask but what it happens is i wake up like 10 to 15 times a night oh then when i wake up for good for the day i'm just as exhausted as when i went to bed right um so i usually uh it's all right i mean look it's um you know it's better than having cancer sure you know it's good way of looking at it

Yes. Yeah, it's the only way I can look at it. But the, yeah, so I go, I'll get up around 11 or 12, or I get around 11, watch TV for an hour or two and then start the day. And then around 5 o'clock, I'll take a nap for an hour, and then I'll stay up until 2.30 in the morning. And it's an easy life. Believe me, I mean, I'm not complaining about it.

And there's never, there's never a time where you're like, oh, WrestleMania's on today, but you don't watch anything. No. Wow. That is, that, that is very. And I know people, I know people say that old-timers say that because they don't want to sound like a bunch of marks. But I would tell you if I did, I mean, to be honest. I believe you.

You know, it's, uh, I've seen some stuff over the years. Like I've been at pay-per-view parties where you're paid to be the celebrity guests at a pay-per-view party and I've watched them. You know, and I did start watching AEW for a minute when they first came on. But other than that, that's pretty much it. If I can share, I was watching the documentary last night. And again, I love it. It's called Nevermore. It was really, really great.

And it was just great to see you and to learn more about you. And my kids were around, and I was just watching it on my phone. And then there's a scene in the dock. I hope you don't mind me talking about this, where you start talking about, slip and slide and then you keep going and then I'm like oh I need to put my headphones on now I can't just be playing this this is an incredible thing do you mind telling the audience about this this thing that you did with the slip inside would that be okay I would you rather they watch the movie okay fair enough fair

enough. I would just say that slip and slide is the tease and you used to use slip and slide maybe recreationally. Yeah, one time. Just once. Okay, I thought it was maybe like a constant thing. No, it was one time. It was a one time thing. Okay, all right. Well, I'm watching it and then I'm saying, okay, maybe I need to put my headphones on. But these are some of the scenes and you see your transformation. Did you enjoy doing it and are you happy with the finished product? Yeah, it's kind of funny. It's painful to watch. I love the movie, but it's painful for me to watch because, you know, all my baggage is right there. I wanted it there, but it's right there front and center, and it's two hours of it, and I've dealt with all the stuff,

but seeing it all condensed in an audiovisual component, it's a lot to take. And now when you go of these screenings, you're going to have to watch it every time, or will you sit outside? I sit outside. Last screening I saw, it was in Kevin Smith's Modcastle. We had one in Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey, and they had another theater that was showing a movie that nobody showed up for, so they just gave me the remote and let me watch Netflix. Wow. You want nothing, you're done watching it. You're not going to watch it again. I might watch it in Atlanta. Okay. Any particular reason? Or Philadelphia. I got a bunch of friends that are going to be there in Philadelphia, and so that's why I'm thinking about

it. But, you know, I don't know. I'll see. One last thing I wanted to ask you was your relationship with Paul Heyman. Obviously, you did such great things for him, and he was a big part of your life. Do you have any sort of relationship with him now? Same as I have with all the boys. I mean, but when I see him I'm full you know we hang out but I don't see him you know we don't talk to each other but but uh but we have a very good relationship though I'm happy to say okay I love to hear that meant a lot to me Paulie of course you know a lot of people were when they when the ECW broke up a lot of you had bad things to say about Pauli but I didn't because he did so much for me you know and helped me

so much with my career you know even even though he was it didn't help me at all later because he was mad at me for leaving eventually we got past that and made up and the last time i saw him it was just really great to see him you know what i mean and and and and it's nice to know that he i've read interviews that he's done that he thinks as highly of me you know creatively as i do of him i would be shocked if it was the opposite way uh october 11th and 12th you're going to be in philadelphia the philomoka emosa yeah mose yeah emos CA, October 22nd at the Charles Theater in Baltimore, October 28th at the Plaza Theater in Atlanta, Georgia.

There's additional screenings coming up in Tampa, in Pennsylvania, Wilmington, Delaware, Rochester, Minnesota. And then my understanding is, and correct me if I'm wrong, mid-November, it will be coming out Blu-ray and VOD, and it will be available nationwide eventually. and you see some, you know, a prime video down there, Apple TV, so I would imagine come November 18th, the rest of the world can see it, right? November 18th, Amazon, Apple, YouTube, Google, Play, iTunes, Voodoo.

And Voodoo did you do so well. Yeah, okay. Okay, one last one. Ravens Mount Rushmore of MMA. Fedor. Wow. John Jones Okay

George St. Pierre This is just off the top of my head. Sure, sure. And Anderson Silva. Okay. Who's number one? Who's your goat?

John Jones is the goat. Despite the PEDs. Despite, because so many people weren't PEDs regardless, you know. And besides, he only got busted with the picograms that were So you're out there reading the websites and all this stuff? No, I listen to podcasts.

I listen to the Good Guy, Bad Guy podcast. And I listen to Bispings. Yep. I started to listen to yours, but every time I would turn one on, it would be a different guest host or something. Oh, no. My show is Monday through Wednesday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. and then we have the boys in the back on Thursdays

and people. I must have always went to go listen to it Thursday or Friday because I was like I'm tired of looking for this. But now I'll listen to it on a Monday, Tuesday. Wait, so you had you, what about me? You don't listen to my show? I listened to it when it was with D.C. Wow. I just stayed with D.C. Well, I stayed with the ones here's the thing. Oh, this hurts. I listen to I listen to, it shouldn't because I listen to D.C. and you

sure. And I just kept listening to that to D.C. And I listened to Bisping, and so I just continued listening to him. Oh, and co-main event. I love the co-main event podcast. Wow. Ben, folks, you just made his life. Ben, folks, and Chad Dundas? Yeah, no, I've DM'd with Ben before. Wow. I can't believe that I can actually legitimately, not in like a funny way, say, what about me to you? What about Ariel? Like, 15 times in a row, MMA journalist of the year event, and you don't listen to my show. I'm, I'm, I'm part impressed and also heartbroken as well.

Yeah, I'm sorry. That's the one thing I feared talking to you about M.M.A. was that when I admit that at least I'm honest about it. Oh, I appreciate it. Oh, my God. Well, this is great. I mean, first I learned that you've renounced your Judaism and you don't listen to my program. So it's fantastic.

You know who Rugg-Rug is and Anatoly Malkin, but you don't listen to my show. Wow, this is amazing. No, I'm going to start, though. I appreciate that. But honestly, honestly, you know, it's like, I'm done listening to those couple podcasts, the week's over and I got to listen to a new batch. I know. It's a lot. Just like pro wrestling, there's a lot of MMA podcasts to listen to. Yeah. I got a podcast, too, the Raven Effect, but we talk about it. The only thing we don't talk about is wrestling. Do you talk about MMA on there? Sometimes. Is it hosted by you?

Yeah, it's the Raven Effect podcast. I will check that out. And I urge... It's wrestling adjacent. Okay. Oh, well, see, you talk old stories, maybe? Occasionally. Occasionally, they'll talk, they'll smooth, my co-host will schmooze me into talking about pro wrestling.

But I try not to, because it doesn't interest me, you know. I get it. It helped my interest for so many years, 30 plus years that, you know, that now I've seen it all, I've done it all. you know I wouldn't change a thing I mean I would change a lot of things let's be honest yes but what I'm saying but uh but yeah no I always wanted to start listening to your podcast and every time I think I do it I must have turned it on on a third like uh it's those guys are worth listening to as well just for the record they're very good are they funny yeah I think so that's I like humor in my

podcast okay that's why you like Ben and chat exactly guys what do you have to say to Raven. Do you want to sell them on your podcast? Is there anything you want to say regarding your humor? No, man. There's nothing we can teach Raven. He knows more than us. He knows Ball. These are the guys, by the way. These are the guys that you're talking about that you probably tuned into. Well, no, I just tuned in the air when I didn't hear your voice. I didn't listen to it. I just turned it off. It would be an honor if you did listen. That sounds a little snarky there. Yeah, yeah. No, genuinely, I would love for you to listen. I will.

then. Okay. All right. Well, maybe we can exchange phone numbers and you can tell us what you think in like a few weeks. Give it a few weeks and let us know. Sure. All right. Well, this has been a huge honor, truly, really. By the way, what are you listening to these days? What am I listening to? Like in terms of music? Podcasts. Oh, no music. No, I, I burnt out on music. You know, like, you know, it's like you ever notice that people in their 50s and 60s, even their 40s, started listening to music that they listened to when they were 10 or 12. Yeah. Because you grow out of current popular music, you know, the top 40.

And so you start listening to older stuff and then that's all you, then that ends up being the one thing you listen to. And then eventually you discover podcasts and then you just, I got to, there's so many different flavors of them, you know, that you want to listen to exclusively that. So no Nirvana, smashing pumpkins, stuff like that. The other day, I was listening, I did listen to some music. I put on Heavy D in the Boys.

Oh, yes. That's a classic right there. I love that. As you were saying, the stuff that you listened to when you were younger. Yeah. Amazing. Well, once again, this has been tremendous. Congratulations on the documentary.

We just listed all the places where you can see it in the coming weeks. A lot of screen. You're going to be at all these spots, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Atlanta. You're going to be there? I'll be in those three, yes. Okay, amazing. And so great to meet you. Congrats on an incredible legendary career and so nice to hear that you're an MMA fan.

That was a genuine pop out of me there, as they say in the business, to hear that you knew so much about the business. So thank you so much for your time and all the best to you and Selena, your partner. Thank you, man. That really means a lot. I am a big fan of yours. All good. Thank you, Scott. All the best to you and we'll talk to you soon.

Take care, man. All right, there he is. the one and only the inimitable Raven who we have discovered is a hardcore

MMA fan and I almost feel like at the end of that he actually felt bad a little bit like I really I really do like you

I mean I like 2021 you but I do like you that was unbelievable tough week for the boys in the back huh

now listen I think we I think we might have a new fan we just have the boys give us a chance I think he's just me

I turned it on turned it immediately off I couldn't stand that shit. I got to get out of here. Nah, no, not. He just didn't hear Ariel. He thought, okay, I'm expecting Ariel. It's fine. Tomorrow, we're going to have a big show.

And hopefully... Is Frank Kippetzing with Scott right there? Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're talking about music. That last question was actually for Frank. I thought he was going to hit his result. I picked up on that. Some hardcore. I was trying, but I was getting Stonewalled. What's the reaction in the back as he starts dropping rog-rook? We're cracking up.

Anatoly Malcott. Biggest pop was when he dropped the big news, Paul Hughes. Gave the nickname and everything. And not only that, like, of course I know big news, Paul Hughes. Like, what? And then he's talking about Sergio Pettus. And then you know he actually is telling the truth when he's talking about the struggle of figuring out ESPN Select and ESPN Unlimited.

Like, the vision, the thought of Raven trying to figure this out, and it's a little complicated, is a beautiful thing. Okay, but how about Ben Folks holding out on us? All this time he knew that Raven, Raven got noseball like this? Yeah, what the hell, Ben? Him out of podcasts he listens to. It's ridiculous as well. I'm a podcast guy. I like it.

Co-main event podcast. I thought he was just going to start listing off random MMA YouTubers at this point. I mean, honestly, you know, I'm with you. Like, I thought, you know, how do we not crack? How do we not make the list? I know. I thought, wow. On crown shows?

He turned on us and saw all our ugly faces. It was like, I'm out. You know, it's so funny about it? I thought he was going to say, every time I turn you on, you're talking about pro wrestling. That's what I thought he was actually going to say And he's like one of those Like oh I hear these other schmucks I want to listen to WWE hour

Oh my God Yes I thought he was one of those guys writing in the chat I love when he said you have heat with Dana Yeah that was great It sounded like the stuff That you know you hear in the wrestling documentary So good Good guy bad guy

God There was a point where I could tell That you wish that the first 30 minutes Of the interview was that Like as you get to the end, you're approaching the end, this opens up and you're like, oh, I wish I had started this 20 minutes ago. Yes and no, because I really did love him. I really did love him. And I did think he was a super cool of jukegat. He was like one of the coolest guys. Yes. He chose to follow D.C. he said, no, you know what? We're going to do a great pod tomorrow. We're going to win him over. And then he's going to come back from Monday through Wednesday. I know if the UFC Rio is the one to join for him.

And by the way, have you ever heard of a story where someone is married, gets a divorce, and then stays with them? He gets a divorce to save the friendship. She's my girlfriend again. Yeah. And then I say, how long was the divorce? We was like, well, we're still divorce. Well, technically, yes, I get that.

Are you going to get married? Yeah, probably for the years. So was there a point where you're just like, let's have a divorce and then, you know, let's just be friends? Yes, life partners. You know what, you know what's an actual question that I should have asked? Did you even move out? Or did she move out? Or did you just say like, we're divorced today, but we're still living together and everything's the same? You know what I mean? That's a fascinating thing. I don't want to give, he didn't want to talk about the slip and slide, but do yourself a favor. Check out the podcast. It's a great thing. The film. Should we, what did I say? The podcast. Oh, podcast. Should we have like a wrestling MMA podcast hosted by Raven? ain't a bad idea I forgot to ask him if he's a boxing fan too

imagine he starts talking about you know Ben Whitaker signing with Matron we get Raven and the only thing he doesn't want to cover is wrestling he'll cover the boxing and the MAA I just have one rule I'm not talking about wrestling wow this is amazing

I just can't believe that he is that deep well done well done okay super chats you're golden Why not drug test him when the fight is announced? Oh. He's talking about the Connor stuff. It's actually not a bad idea.

So basically it's like, hey, we're going to go on... You know it was funny when Eddie was talking about Dana, like reading off a paper to announce the undercard of Connell Crawford? I would have been a stickler if I interrupted him and said, he kind of does that when he's announcing the UFC fights these days as well. But anyway, so basically it's like, hey, today at 5 o'clock we're going to announce, this is an internal conversation, not a public conversation. We're going to announce Hooker versus Turukian. And then we're also going to time that we're going to show up to their house exactly when we announce it.

Is that what this guy is saying? Seems like it. I guess so. I mean, it's not a bad shot, but they do show up. They do show up. My only thing that I was bringing up, the only thing was, I wish the fighters had to say in. this arrangement. That's all. Of course I'm in favor of unannounced testing, surprise testing, pee testing, blood testing, all that stuff. But I just want them to have a say.

That's all. What else, Mike? What else? Um, so Danny from earlier wrote back, Ariel, I only had 200 characters to ask my question, chill. Nah, no, no, no. Is that true, though? Is that true? Is it only 200? There's a 200 character limit. But, you know, you do? Why use many? word when short word due to listen you were you were willing you were willing to spend 999 so just go 499 499 and now you've got 400 characters to work with right um Danny also wrote back so this is $14 also I'm a huge fan at TSPN days or probably before L.O. Oh you too well at least you stuck with us not Raven I think you got in his feelings man I'm like poor I actually think Raven felt bad as well He did. He said he was fearing you calling him out on it when you talked to him.

He had a few notes after he got off air that we'll talk about. Oh, what do you say? What do you say? I don't think that would be wise for me to bring it up. Oh, my God. Break the fourth wall. Okay, what else? What else? Sammy says, I am a long time to zone subscriber and I was disappointed not to get access to watch. Oh, wow. Versus Hughes here in Sweden. Okay, I didn't know that. It seemed like a lot of people had trouble watching. I can understand why you would be upset. It was a little complicated.

Paul talked about that as well. What else, Frankie? What else? Ariel, if Tom defends and Islam wins, the UFC may have their most stacked lineup of men's champions in their history. The champ is, and each division is either top one, two, ever, or one of the all-time... No, no, no, no, sorry, sorry. I thought it was washed.

I thought it was washed. I'm really struggling here to read these. No, no, I interrupted you, but I'm just saying, like, if you subscribe to... If you get into the weeds of, you know, UFC Apex 106, and you're like, yeah, I get it. But at the top, you're still getting incredible athletes. Like, you're getting incredible athletes and incredible fights. Are the cards watered down? Absolutely.

But, like, the best of the best is still very, very good. So it's just a matter of how you slice it. And the crop of champions right now, Aspinall, Pereira, Chamsat, JDM or Islam Ilya I mean is it Volk Marab

Pentosia that's an incredible like there's no weak link there Kayla Valentina Zhang Wei Li it's an incredible time

what else Frankie? What else? AFK Austin says who is Frank's favorite fighter yeah who is I'm really

I'm not gonna lie Veronica Hardy is is my favorite Wow wait MMA or just favorite fighter period MMA

as we discussed different sports different you know Amanda's a fighter but like a boxer first sure sure but number one

if you had to pick number one pound for pound fighter regardless of combat sport Veronica Hardy yeah done and done

done and dusted all right I think that's it right there is one more oh okay but it's not a super chat it's from this person

just me and it says we need magic mic to react to gc's acting during the year he fight to see if he has a potential career and that's incredible was that was that a super chat or was that just a great regular chat that i guess jordan grad that's a great one because it was too funny you i feel like gc's taking a bit of a beating this week it's all right it's all good i'll remember all of this i kept saying that raven was like i love the show but then i joined when i saw this I wanted to tell him, like, there's a tab right there that says video. Like, you can look at some of the old stuff, no? I told you to, I think he's a audio podcast guy.

You're on the phone, I was in like 80% of the videos. Yeah, maybe. No, no, I think he's an audio guy. Do you think it's time that we, do you think it's time we just give you guys the boot from the audio feed? I'm cool with it, man. Save Frank a few minutes on Thursdays and Friday. No, no, I'm just saying a separate feed.

I'm not saying boot forever. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And breaking the fourth. Well, I'm so sorry, but when he said that he likes the commentary, which is why he, it was like, the watch party is the obvious place. I know you were whispering in my ear the whole time, but like, he already doesn't listen to any of our stuff. You think he's listening to the watch party?

You're, you should tell him about it. He's whispering on my, he's... I was going to say you were whispering in his ear, Frank? That's the best. By the way... Can I could you picture a cable? Yo, yo. The cable's just, yeah, just keep pulling on it, man.

No, listen, listen. What, is it about the IFB? No, whenever, Frank, I'll be like mid-sentence, in paragraph and he's... he's just like, hey man, just want to be a chance if you can't take him to get a chance. He's talking to me right now, and I can't tell if he's being serious or not. I'm mid-sentence, doing something.

And then I just, yeah, man. The best part about it is, but when you can just, it's just like, he, he never speaks to me. He never speaks to me in interviews. This time, he's like, and I'm like, what, what was that? And he's like, tell him about the watch party,

tell him about the watch party. Like, well, yeah, yeah, no, no, the best is, uh, starts it off. Just, hey, man, this is in your, ear Frank, what'd you say, man? Yeah, why you whisper? Everything's off.

It's bad. We got to go. It's been a great time. BITB tomorrow? Yup. Sub BITB, 415, sub BITB to leave a voicemail. What do we got? What do we got?

What are we talking about? You'll see Rio preview? Yeah. Bring on Raven to break it out. Matus. When he said Matus, that's when it was just like, God damn, this guy knows ball. This guy knows what he's talking about.

And what else? What are the pound for pound rankings all about? What are we doing? I'd rather not reveal. The pound for pound is a lot. Elite one. Alex Pereira, John Jones? Yeah. John Pork signed to the UFC. He has John Pork. Fight of the year taking place on contenders here?

Did he not say... By the way, can I just say something about the fight of the year? The fight of the year was great, but like the technique was... I mean, this... It's not going to be much better. It was like, I mean, it was just like a... It was a very, very entertaining fight. Yes, but... Fight of the year?

I don't think it's not quite a game. I think a lot of people were saying that because they wanted to be like, I'm watching contenders. You know what? I thought the same. It was a very entertaining point. Shout out to him. Oh, yeah, shout out the John Fork, too.

Yeah. What do we think on Air Jordan? Game four tonight? How you feeling? Wow. Got them right where we want. Them's fighting words. That's fine.

Oh, yeah, that's right. Nah, he's a little too close to the sun. I needed, you know, someone who is a little less biased. But, yeah, big game tonight. Lots to be excited about BITB tomorrow. I thought maybe Raven would drop like, oh, but you know what? I love that Pizzie Carroll. That's my guy.

Didn't get that either. Thank you, Carlos Sahlberg, Paul Hughes, Dan Hooker, Channing Tatum, Eddie Hearn, and Raven. Thanks to you, thanks to you, thanks, back on there. Thank you.