The Ariel Helwani Show - Fact or Fiction: UFC has a major star problem | The Boys in the Back

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

The Boys in the Back start the show by reacting to a few bits of breaking news: Naoya Inoue has his next fight (01:41) and Jeremy Stephens is back in the UFC (03:48).Then they dive deep, aiming to answer a simple question: Does the UFC have a star problem (09:46)?Plus, they preview UFC Vegas 104 (1:34:05), make picks (1:45:09), deliver P4P rankings (1:53:26) , and answer your questions (2:11:55).

What is good? We are back with another episode of The Boys in the Back on a lovely, lovely spring afternoon. I mean, it's just beautiful outside. March 13th, Daylight Savings Time has come and gone. It's getting darker later. It's getting a little bit warmer and my mood is just elevating as we crescendo into spring and summer. I am your host, one half of the boys in the back, Connor Burks, join alongside me. As always, the man, Eric Conviction, New York Rick Jackman.

Yeah, yeah. How we doing, brother? I got called out a little bit yesterday for speaking with too much conviction. Yeah, I got the high behind the curtain in that one. Cause like, I was like, oh yeah, striking affair, that one's going to Pereira. No one taught, no one called me on my shit.

I, uh, I stand on business and, um, I'm willing to take the repercussions of that. But yes, it is a beautiful day in New York city and, uh, I feel like, I feel like the, the moment that you have talked about where you just, all of a sudden you're walking down the street that one day and you feel like it's there, we're coming.

We are this close to it. I went for a walk yesterday before the Ariel Awani show and I was like, I was like, we're almost there. It's like faintly, it's like whispering in my ear that one day where you just smelled the spring where you're like, you know what? It's too hot for the sweater, I'm going short sleeves.

It's all happening to me. Once you change the clothes, that's a real sign. When you wear that hoodie, where it's like, you're not even in your heavy coat anymore, you're in the hoodie and you're like, you know what? This is too warm, I gotta go with the short sleeves, that's how you know you're finally there. We're almost there, brother.

Yeah, we are almost there. We are almost there. And once again, we start, boys in the back, with a bit of breaking news. Breaking news Thursday every day. It just feels like Dana's always there to do us a favor. The Boxing World Turkey wants to give us a little pat on the back. We start in Iowa, and away we'll be taking on Ramona Cardenas in Las Vegas.

On Sunday, May 4th, he returns to the United States for the first time. Since 2021, which I feel like that's a pretty big deal, man. Like he's getting respected, especially among hardcore boxing fans as one of, if not the best boxers in the world, pound for pound great. And I think coming to the United States after fighting in Japan for all these years is big for him. Yeah, at a time when it is very difficult

to be a top pound for pound fighter, because there are so many that we consider like the cream of the crop in the elite class to the point that like Canelo Alvarez is not number one on most lists. Like when you've got a guy as good as Canelo and you're talking about Usyk and you're talking about Crawford and you're talking about Inoue, it is a very crowded at the top of the pound for pound rankings. He is a staple of it. He is somebody who belongs there

and their performances show that. If you have not seen him because maybe you just haven't heard the name or because maybe you're just not aware of when he's been fighting. Cause most of the time, as you mentioned, this is first time in the United States since 2021. Most of the time he's fighting in Japan. This is happening early morning, U S time. If you are not familiar with in a way he is one to watch, even though he is a lighter weight

class, he is a powerful striker and somebody who like shows the levels of boxing. Not just as he fight early morning in the U S it's usually like a Tuesday morning or a Thursday morning. It's like shows the levels of boxing. Not just as he fight early morning in the US, it's usually like a Tuesday morning or a Thursday morning. It's like a random weekday morning. So it is touchy-kevim and you catch him and you say, look at that, look at that bug right there. 29 and 0, fighting at the lower divisions, 26 knockouts.

He's a monster. That's not just his nickname, he is actually a monster. He is a treat to watch. And that's shaping up to be a massive weekend in boxing right here in New York. On that Friday, they're gonna be fighting over at Times Square in- Crazy.

One of the most intriguing cards of the year, not just of the location, but also several big fights on that as well. And then on Saturday, we go out to Saudi for Canelo Skull. And then Sunday, Noya Inouye against Ramon Cardenas in Las Vegas, massive weekend for boxing. And if you don't like boxing, there's a little bit of MMA, what's growing to be one of the biggest

fight nights in recent history. UFC Des Moines, they are showing out for Iowa. We get some breaking news this morning that Jeremy Stevens, uh, PKFC Victor, just a few months ago in Philadelphia against Eddie Alvarez stole the show on that one. He is going to be returning to the UFC, taking on another man returning to the UFC in Mason Jones,

which is big news, man. Jeremy Stevens had an excellent performance in BKFC and now he gets a redemption shot in the UFC. Yeah, this one is a little bit out of nowhere because like, you know, typically when guys leave the UFC and BKFC ends up being one of the stops, they kind of just stay out of nowhere because like, you know, typically when guys leave the UFC and BKFC ends up being one of the stops, they kind of just stay out of the UFC or stay at BKFC. Right. We're looking at Ben Rothwell, Rothwell as as

potentially resigning with BKFC. He's had a great run there. Mike Perry notably and then fighting elsewhere as well. You typically aren't coming back to the UFC on the heels of that. I couldn't imagine like a Mike Perry coming back to the UFC. Well also just like, Stevens had such a long extensive UFC run, but when you've got Des Moines on the books and you've got a guy like Jeremy Stevens floating out there as a free agent, it's a real opportunity to capitalize on that. The hometown kid.

Yeah, and I think what's interesting about it is something that Ariel Hawani tweeted, which is BKFC just put him in a main event and had him beating Eddie Alvarez. But then there, you don't have him locked up. So let's read the tweet here by Ariel. What a twist. Jeremy steals the show at BKFC in Philly. And then shockingly, at least to me, reveals that he's on the last fight of his deal. He revealed that on the Ariel Hawani show. Can't let that happen. Big mistake. UFC goes to Iowa, Steven Stevens home state. He's back.

BKFC had something special with him and now he's gone. Now we don't know like the terms of the, of the deal with Jeremy Stevens. This could be come show up for Iowa and then, you know, go do something else. And I imagine if you're Stevens, you still take that opportunity to fight at the top of the UFC card in Iowa.

Maybe they've got them on a longer term deal. I don't know if it's the end of the road for like Jeremy Stevens, BKFC. Like I could see him going back there pretty easily. Right. Like on the end of this. Um, but it is, it is losing an opportunity where you had a guy who now had momentum that like just beat Eddie Alvarez and you could roll into some really massive fights. And he was calling for money, man.

He was like, pay me my money, man. I am a star in this sport. And now I wonder if he's getting that in the UFC. I mean, we just showed a graphic, he had two and seven with one no contest in his last 10 MMA fights, fighting a guy who's also returning after going to cage warriors for four fights.

I wonder how big the payday is to return or if he just wanted to fight in the UFC in his hometown. And I continue to harp on this and I continue to talk about this. And this will segue into our next conversation. The UFC schedule is what dictates who fights now these days. It is all about maintaining the UFC schedule. They are in Des Moines, they need a main event,

call up Jeremy Stevens. Like this is how this goes. You show, they show up to a city, they take it over, they put on the best like local-ish style card that they can do, and then they move on to the next one. And so this makes a lot of sense from a UFC perspective. I think it makes sense for Jeremy Stevens, right? Why not take another crack at the big show now you're in a UFC main event. To be clear, this isn't the main event, is it not? Oh sorry, what's the main event? The main event is, I got you right now,

Davidson Figueredo versus... Oh that That's a, that's a bigger fight. Okay. It was a bigger rate of course. Maybe Coleman event, maybe highlight slot. Um, he'll be on the main car and you, and you sell some tickets. Yeah. Um, I did forget about Figgy and Sandy, but right away as a, as a cheat, O'Vario Mario, but a little bit, uh, Julian Robertson, Santiago,

Ponson, maybe it's not bad. You guys, you should take Yana Santos, Montel Jackson, Daniel Marcos, 17 and O, Peruvian, oh, RDR, Bo Nicol, we also found out that news. Oh yeah, forgot about that one. I mean, I'm saying, they're starting to put it on over there in Des Moines.

I wanna just throw it out into the ether. I just wanna speak this into existence. We talked about it off the air. UFC London ended up not working out, not gonna be there next week. Here's the plan for that weekend. Friday night, just down the road, we go to the Times Square Boxing Card.

We do that. Enjoy it, lock in. It's gonna be crazy, it's gonna be sick. Stay in a hotel out near LaGuardia that night. Get up AM, fly out, first flight out to Des Moines on Saturday. Take in everything that the Des Moines has to offer all day. Go to UFC Des Moines that night.

First flight out back to New York on Sunday. Show on Monday for the recap. All time weekend. I mean, this sounds like a plan. I could be convinced to do this. Not a lot of time away from home. The wife wouldn't have too much of a problem potentially. I might try to figure out a way to join you on this.

I think that makes a lot of sense. I'll do it solo. I feel like you're halfway to Vegas already. Go see in a way. Come back on Tuesday. You don't need to be here for Monday I got you. No, no, no, this is crazy. Talk. This is crazy. Talk. How crazy is it? You're you're We had on crown day on crown weekend Jordan me in Vegas

I got you Rick you fly back Jordan you meet me in Vegas and we'll go to anyway now We can't afford to lose them. Sorry. I'm vetoing this as EP and we'll go to, in a way. No, we can't afford to lose them. Sorry, I'm vetoing this as EP, but I like the thought, I like the idea, and it's gonna be, it is truly gonna be a pretty like stacked weekend. Mason Jones back in the UFC. Yeah.

Welsh, O'Bann Elliot, this feels like they're teasing. Put on a Wales card? Yeah, let's do USC Wales. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I don't know what the market is like in Wales. I don't even know what the arena situation would be in Wales. I don't either.

Um, do it at a, do it at Wrexham stadium. I wonder, uh, I wonder, um, what other talent could potentially be on that, but yeah, I mean, uh, I don't know if the, I don't know if the Mason Jones signing is the one that they're now, uh, making those plans around, but Oban maybe Oban is, uh, Oban is calling for something, put it in his hometown, make him happy. Yeah, we'll see

Alright, so those that's the breaking news. Those are the stories that we're getting caught up on before we get to the UFC Vegas 104 preview I know everyone's dying to hear about that the rematch we've all been waiting for Yeah, Tory, I think so. We'll get into that before we get into that though It's kind of a hot-button topic right now It feels like every YouTube channel is covering it, people on social media are talking about it. And it is essentially, does the UFC have a star issue? Are they not producing enough stars?

Are they not garnering enough attention from individuals within the league, within the sport? Do they have an issue? Is that fact or fiction? Yeah, and we've been talking about this for a long time. I've been beating this drum for quite a bit. Ariel has, has notably has been talking about it a lot recently. I felt like it would be inappropriate for me to continue to say this

and to continue to talk about this without actually going back, without actually doing the research and thinking about this a little more critically and determining a very simple yes or no, does the UFC have a star problem? And so I think I want to have a lengthy conversation about this. And at the end of it, I think we need to make a determination, fact or fiction, one or the other. Is it true that the UFC has a star problem or is it not? We will determine that at the end of this. Here's how, Here's how when I was going back, I thought about it, and maybe we can stick to this kind of outline.

This is how I thought about it. You have to start in the past. We have to go back to this era that people seem to be referencing and thinking about and saying like, ah, there were so many stars back then. I want to look at that. I wanna analyze whether in that moment in time, there were many stars and what the difference is.

Sometimes to go forward, you got to go back. Exactly right. So we start in the past, then we get to where are we now? What's happened? What's happened in the time since? What happened since that time to now that would say there's a difference? Maybe there is no difference. Maybe ultimately we conclude it's the same. Maybe we conclude it's different. What's different? And then from there, I'd like to go into, so what now? Right? If we are in this position and there is or is not to go into, so what now? If we are in this position and there is or is not a difference, what do we do? What does the USC do?

What can be done for the sport of MMA and then ultimately arrive at problem or no problem? Does that sound good? All right. So let's start in the past. I looked back. The best way I could contextualize this was 2010s. At first I was thinking like, do I just go back to 2016, which as Ariel Hawani has alluded to many times, was like the peak year of UFC, right? You've got Conor McGregor, double champs. Like it just exploded. It was just an insane year

for the UFC. But going to one year, I don't feel, I didn't feel would be like a super accurate representation, right? If you went to November of 2016, right? After McGregor's coming off the double champ status and everything, that's the piece. That's the pinnacle. It's impossible to compare to that. So I thought, let's look at the 2010s. And what I noticed when looking at the 2010s was these are the, these are the big takeaways that I had.

Number one, more American champions, right? At the time in the 2010s, there were just so many more Americans. We were coming off an era when there was American wrestling was like the production of the world. And then the, the, the, the, the, the, the American champions, right? At the time in the 2010s, there were just so many more Americans we were coming off an era when there was American wrestling was like the predominant kind of style in MMA and it was just showing it was it was showing in the champions the champions were there were a lot more Americans. Number two, big personalities, right? We mentioned Conor McGregor,

naturally one of the biggest personalities the sports ever seen. You have Ronda Rousey in the 2010s you've also got like the Brock Lesnar's there's so many like big personalities that are very easy to go yes that person's a star because it's so obvious right you don't have to like think too hard you don't have to go there's not a moment where you go are they a star like you would for potentially some other people Ronda Rousey Connor McGregor rock like yes star auto like not even a question You can just look at them take one look at no and then the other thing that I noticed two other things I noticed one was

We got some innovation. We got some evolution We got some freshness and I say that in the sense that like Connor McGregor burst onto the scene and starts doing things that like nobody had really done to that point. And so that felt fresh at that time. And that's really important. And then lastly, longer title reigns. What we saw at that time was like the GSPs, the Silvas. Now their title reigns started before this, right?

Like Anderson Silva was a champion before the 2010s, but a lot of his title reign took place in the 2010s. GSP, Silva, Jones, Cruz, Demetrius, Aldo, Ronda Rousey, long title reigns, like people actually defending their title and going on long runs that we may not be seeing now. So those are the big things that stood out to me as like differentiators.

Does that make sense? Did you think of something else when you were looking back? Well, I actually went back even further into the 2000s and almost everything you were saying is true, especially the American Champions Bar. Like, you go in, it's just like, you had Matt Hughes, you had Chuck Liddell, you had Randy Couture, BJ Penn, Rich Franklin, you got Tito Ortiz, Frank Mir, like, these are all USA-representing guys

which are going to relate to the USA fans. So, yes, I am in agreement with that. That's another point that, like, these super long title runs, Anderson Silver's Demetrius Johnson, while he may have not been respected in the era, like people are like, you know, right now they're comparing, you know, Pantoja to DJ and it's just like,

well, it's like four to 10 or whatever it was, how many consecutive title defenses he had in a row. It's these, being a long reigning champ is obviously going to build you into a star. A hundred percent. And those title runs were predicated on that. Like the idea, uh, those title defenses were so important to building that stardom and we can get

into that. Cause we'll talk about like what makes a star, what is a star in this context. But that was something that existed then that I do not believe exists now. And I think there's specific reasons for that. So those were the things that stood out to me about what was different. Do we go, do we have anything else on that

before we move on to like, what has happened? What is the comparison? What has shifted? I guess just one thing about it is that it was almost like you, you're to your point about it being fresh. Like it was like breaking into people's lives. It was this new thing and you were getting two

essentially unicorns in Conor McGregor and Ronda Rousey. Like this female fighter that was just killing everyone up until the Holly home fight. And she backed it up with the talk and she had the look and everything about it. Like she was a unicorn. She broke into this massive star power role.

And then she went onto the WWE afterward and became an even bigger star. Like she was a unicorn for the UFC, especially in the female divisions. Conor McGregor, unicorn. I do not know how they will ever get anything like that again. He talked the talk, he walked the walk, and he backed it up in the fights

with very exciting, stylistic fights. He's winning by knockout almost every time he goes out. That's how he's winning the belts, the 13 seconds again, Aldo. Like it all just made this perfect storm to become a mega star. Like you, it's impossible to compare the stars of today Islam Makashev, Ilya Toporia, even though they're always going to get the comparisons, especially Ilya Toporia, to a guy like Conor McGregor. Like he is the unicorn, he is the Michael Jordan. Like it's just like what he did for the sport and the star that he created from that is impossible to recreate

Yeah, it was like it was like a Nexus event It was like a this is one moment in time that just created this this supernova that I don't think you can replicate that kind of It was the the environment was primed for it But nobody had been able to do it and then he came through and kind of did it and Rhonda at the same time Is that like you're looking at something that I don't think can be replicated. And with that, you have, while all that's going on, you have John Jones going on. You still got John.

Insane long Rhonda. You still got a GSP in the mix at times. Like you've got huge kind of like names in that, in that regard. I think, I think we're on the same page in terms of Connor and Rhonda kind of stand head and shoulders above the rest, right? Like they are so specific.

Connor, because of how successful he was, because of how popular was, he brought Habib up with him. Obviously Habib, undefeated and everything like that. He's got like 40 million followers on Instagram. He's a superstar. He's a legend. He's not as big if he doesn't fight Connor McGregor.

If he doesn't finish Connor McGregor, he is nowhere near as big as he is. A hundred percent. Cause Habib owes a lot in terms of that to Connor McGregor. Um, okay. So. as big as he is. 100% because it would be always a lot in terms of that to Conor McGregor. Okay. So then we've, we've analyzed a little bit of what happened in the past. To me, I think the next step then is to go, okay, so what has happened at that time since? What, what shifted in that time since to create a potentially different environment? If you believe

it is different, right? What, what has happened since then that, that has changed what existed then to now? These are some of the things that I lead out. I'm going to go a little slower on this because I think each is kind of maybe worth discussion. I think we have to acknowledge first off that, and forgive me everybody for referring to notes, but I was thinking long and hard on this because I really want to nail this conversation. Cultural shift. There was a major cultural shift that I've, that I've been able to identify between now, uh, what happened then and now in terms of grabbing people's attention. When Conor McGregor, when Ron DeRosie, when all

these things were happening, the internet was newer and people's social media habits were being developed and it was, it was still a lot easier to push through and penetrate and hit the mainstream than it is now when the, when the space is so noisy, so crowded, anything that anybody does has so much other things fighting for attention that when somebody gets a big knockout now, the world doesn't stop in the same way

that it did when Connor McGregor was getting a knockout, right? When Connor McGregor became double champ, by the way, the first time somebody had done that held two belts in the UFC simultaneously it was it was an event that everybody in the world had to pay attention to this guy was was everywhere and so now if somebody does that it just doesn't hit the same there there's so much other stuff going on and I'm not even talking like sports world and I'm not even talking like in entertainment just the world everybody was in their own phone, doing their own thing, everything is tailored for

instantaneous gratification. It is so much harder to just capture attention. You're competing against every single form of entertainment out there. And there are so many more, which I feel like is so different than then. And on top of that, we're in a 24 hour news cycle, 24 hours after 24 hours, everything you post is just dead on arrival. It might even be shorter at this point. It might be a 24 hour news cycle. 24 hours. After 24 hours, everything you post is just dead on arrival. It might even be shorter at this point. It might be a six hour. It really is.

It just, everything moves so quickly at this point. And it just, there's no time to marinate on it. And especially with this UFC schedule, with how many cards they do, and I know they've been doing this amount for many, many years, but it's just like next cards up, keep it on rolling. Okay, perfect segue.

More events. Yes, they've been on this for a while, but at the start of 2010 and somebody checked me on this, I looked this up and I found this, uh, but I did not verify event by event at the start of 2010, there were in the range of like 24 events. So that's like a significant difference from what there is now by 2014, we had already gotten up to like in the 40s, we're talking like 45, 46 events. Now we've continued that on right?

The USC is not putting on more events than they did previously from a fight night, pay per view, what's the core of the schedule. But now we have Dana White's contender series and we have other like elements that have been added to that mix. But from a like bread and butter number of events schedule, since around mid 2010s, they've been on the same aggressive schedule. But at the front end of that 2010s, they were not. There were a lot less events. You are right. In 2010, they did 24 events. Yeah. And so you're looking at a real increase in UFC's business, in their profile, in their ability to do this. And as they're doing that,

as they're scaling up the number of events going, hey, we could be making more money doing this, they then get on the heels of that O'Connor McGregor and Ronda Rousey. I mean, it could not have worked out better. As you said, perfect storm. It was a perfect storm at the time. And so in that era, we go to these more events. And so that era that you're thinking of where it's like, ah, GSP and Anderson Silva and all these guys that I remember fondly and they're megastars yeah because you saw them like twice a year because you saw them so infrequently compared to what we see now in terms of

how much UFC product is out there you had time to like marinate and go I missed Anderson Silva and now I love to see him now it's just like yeah we got this event in the apex and then they've got another event in the apex and then they're in Des Moines and then they're on pay-per-view, it just keeps rolling and you don't have time to like sit back and actually marinate on any of this stuff. Yeah. I couldn't be with you more.

I mean, we, we are coming off of Alex Pereira's loss and now we're straight into the apex for a Marvin Vittori versus Roman Delite fight night. And then the week after that, we've got London. The week after that, we've got Mexico. And then we'll be right at UFC 314 at that point. And so we talked about the longer title reigns, right? We talked about like the Demetrius, like the record for it, the John Joneses, the GSPs, the Silvas. The long title reigns are how the stars are made. That is what, like, I think at some point we're going to have to have a real conversation about what quote unquote star is because I

don't think everybody's operating on the same terms. It's a bit like an MVP award. Some people go best player. Some people go, who's the best player on a good team. Some people go who's the most valuable to their team, even if they're on the bad team, right? If they, if they take their team from zero wins to 30 wins, they might be better than somebody who takes their team from 50 wins to 60 wins. You're only a 10 win difference. So there's all these like different metrics that people have for MVP. I think star is in a similar category where it's like, not everybody's defining it the exact same way,

but I do think there's a general sense of like what people identify as a star. But I think one of the most critical ingredients to building that star is these title defenses. It's reps, it's seeing this person and not only just seeing this person. But learning them winning, seeing them winning to win and learn about them or losing. Think of Connor McGregor, Connor McGregor comes in, takes a big opportunity, saves a card, loses to Nate Diaz, rematch bigger, next fight

bigger, just continues to scale it up. It's about getting in front of people and performing and us learning about the game. hard loses to Nate Diaz rematch bigger next fight bigger just continues to scale it up. It's about getting in front of people and performing and us learning about them. It's not just this like, okay, they go fight, they had a title defense. Now we move on to the next thing. You don't have time to like think about this. You don't have time to like invest in their story. Everything is moving so fast. And these title

defenses are those opportunities that you get to check back in with these people and think about them and really focus on them and learn about their story. And so like for the first X number of years of Anderson Silva's career, the dude didn't really speak English, didn't really try, was doing a whole like I don't speak English thing, Chael Son and called him out on that in their famous like lead up to the fight. And so he was mysterious. And then as we kind of peel back the layers, we learn more and peel back some of the layers, we learn more. And that is so essential to this like star process.

That is so essential to this, like feeling like you know, somebody you have to have personality. You have to connect with the obvious to, to captivate them and be a star. And then you have to parlay it. You have to combine it with the performances. Yeah. If you, if we just like get somebody who has three

title defenses and then kind of falls out of that picture, like you don't learn about them. Do you think there's an argument to be made that there's less title defenses because the game has evolved so much and everyone has just leveled up and it's just that much harder to retain the belt? 100,000%. There is so much more.

Another thing that I've thought about that's changed is there is so much more parody in MMA today from the sense that there's Ten guys that I think could be champs in multiple weight classes. We're just like on the right night Everybody is so skilled now that a game of MMA has evolved so much compared to that time that they were making these title runs and these long title defenses that everybody has an opportunity like when you look at like a guy like a Sean O'Malley or a marab or a everybody has an opportunity like when you look at like a guy like a Sean O'Malley or a marab or a Cory or a figgy like everybody in that division is so fucking good that it that any of them could be champion if Another one is out of the picture umar like there's just so many good guys and girls in MMA now

That and the game has evolved so much to the point that people are just primarily MMA fighters and starting an MMA That there's so much more opportunity for that people are just primarily MMA fighters and starting an MMA that there's so much more opportunity for somebody to be a champion. But that also means there's so much more opportunity for the champion not to have a long title reign for it to turn over a lot quicker. So I believe that a hundred percent. Yeah.

All right. So this is everything in our opinion on what's happened, what's changed in the culture, what shifted among the UFC from those days to now and how we ended up here. So now we are here. Your assessment on the overall picture of what it looks like right now. Yeah, so I have confidently said in the past that I think the UFC has a star problem. What I've at the end of this kind of thought about and ultimately

arrived at is I think there is a is a lack of the same kind of star building that the UFC had previously, but I would not call it a problem. I would not say that this is a dire circumstance for the UFC. I would instead argue that like, maybe by design, stars are not the driver of the sport anymore that they once were. And one of the things that I thought about that like kind of stuck in my head is I was thinking about the business model and thinking about the UFC and thinking about their business at that time. At that time, they needed a Conor McGregor for them to take a next step. They needed something to break through or a Ronda Rousey to break through and then take them to the next level that they could command

more money. They were chasing the money. They were the ones going after the money. They needed to go after ESPNs. They needed to go after these big rights deals sitting here in 2025. The money chases them, the money they used to chase the money. Now the money chases them. They are the big fish in the pond. They are the UFC. They are going to command an insane amount of money in to go back in 2018. I'm not even going back to like the early 2010s in 2018, when they signed with ESPN, the deal was for 1.5 billion over five years for broadcast rights. I'm seeing all kinds of reports now that they are commanding at least a billion per year on the next broadcast deal.

So 1.5 for five years in 2018. now that they are commanding at least a billion per year on the next broadcast deal. So 1.5 for five years in 2018, we're now seven years later and we're looking at 1 billion per year, whatever they sign, exponential growth in terms of what that broadcast deal is like. And these are going to be people that are coming to them. These are going to be suitors that are going, let us pay you a billion dollars per year, as opposed to the previous era where they're scraping and clawing and trying to find their way. The valuation when the UFC sold in 2016, $4 billion at the time, seem a few years later of what the UFC is worth

to the portfolio of TKO, to TKO and WME. And so the idea that like we have an issue on our hands does not jive with how good the UFC's business is doing. It does not jive with like, if this was a quote unquote problem, you would have to assume that the business was in a worse position than it is. And if you're just looking at the numbers, it is not a problem for the UFC. It isn't a problem.

Like it's just plain and simple like that. They are setting records with revenue, they're setting records with gates, their social media, their YouTube, everything is on fire. Each week people are watching, week after week, they're setting records with Gates, their social media, their YouTube, everything is on fire each week. People are watching week after week. They're about to come in massive money from these TV right deals and who knows how they're going to allocate it, whether it's spread across

multiple streaming platforms. It's like, they're as big as they've ever been. So how could this be an issue for them? And then when it comes to the actual stars of today themselves, I still like, yes, maybe they don't have a McGregor. They don't have a Ronda Rousey. They don't have- They still kind of have McGregor, but-

They still kind of have McGregor. Like he's kind of like halfway attached to it. They still do have stars. Islam Makashev is a star. He is becoming a long reigning champion at 155. He has this incredible story with the connection to Habib, this amazing resume that's getting built each time he goes out and fights. He just hit 10 million followers on Instagram. I think the only people ahead of connection to Habib, this amazing resume that's getting built each time he goes out and fights.

He just hit 10 million followers on Instagram. I think the only people ahead of him are Habib, Connor, and Rhonda. Like, it's just like, he has more followers than John Jones. Like, if we take out these outliers of Connor and Rhonda and Habib, who a lot of that following came from that Connor rivalry, it was, like, the amount of followers he gained during the buildup

to 229 in the fight night was absolutely insane. Like it was just absolutely ridiculous. You take out those outliers, it's just like, he's right there among all the other stars. The GSPs, the Anderson Silvers, like he is a star in his own right. Then you have Elia, who now could put on a super fight

with him, you have Hamzah waiting in the wings. Hamzah has more followers than John Jones or just as many followers on Instagram as John Jones. And the dude doesn't even have a belt yet. Imagine if he goes on a long title run, uh, at 185, he's going to become a mega star. Like he, he is absolutely huge. Uh, you have Pereira who doesn't have a belt now,

but he's still a star. You have John Jones, greatest of all time star. Uh, O'Malley is, is still a star for you and he's going to potentially fight for the belt later this year. Patty Pimlet, you know, has, there's guys that have potential to blow up. Obviously it's just projections, but like Patty Pemblit keeps winning.

He's going to be a massive star for you. You touched on something really important there, which is potential. Yeah. I think a lot of this conversation comes down to people eliminating options by, by limiting people's potential. And when I say that, I say this, like with the benefit of hindsight,

but when you go back to 2015, 2016, 2014, not everybody was ready to go, Connor McGregor is gonna be the biggest star in the business. I don't think many people were. Well, there was one and his name was Connor McGregor. Everybody else had to be convinced. There was one guy who believed it and it was Connor McGregor. Everybody else had to be convinced. There was one guy who believed it and it was Connor McGregor and every single other person,

including the UFC, including Dana White had to be convinced and he, to his credit, his everlasting credit, he went out there and did the work to convince them and he delivered on everything he said he was going to. But he was not like, it wasn't this situation where we're like, ah, that guy's a blue chip wrestling prospect.

He wasn't even an undefeated fighter by the time he got to the UFC. We're not, we're not like, it wasn't this situation where we're like, ah, that guy's a blue chip wrestling prospect. He wasn't even an undefeated fighter by the time he got to the UFC. We're not like, we have the benefit of hindsight here, but we are not accepting the possibility that the stars of tomorrow are not people that we think are stars right now, or are not even people that we're thinking

are gonna be like these champions right now. It could be a Patty Pimblitt. Patty Pimblitt could end up being 10 times better than we think he's gonna be going on a historic run and being the best lightweight we've ever seen. Would I predict that sitting here right now? No. But am I eliminating that possibility before it could come to fruition? Probably, right? And so I think this conversation, a lot of it is around potential and thinking like, nah, nobody's going to do it. But we also thought Ilya Taporri's ride was going to to end with Valk and all of a sudden it's

not these things. All of a sudden he's one of the biggest stars you have. They keep getting proven wrong and we're, and we're, we're thinking about these things as if they can't be done and they can. And we've seen it done. Alex Pereira is a great example.

Alex Pereira was supposed to be the B side to an Israel Adesanya title fight. That's all he was supposed to be. Alex Pereira was brought in to be somebody for Israel Adesanya to feast on, to settle a rivalry and then continue on from there. Now that ended up being amazing. Sean Strickland gets in the mix somewhere in there.

It worked out perfectly. Alex Pereira becomes a big star, a huge star, one of the UFC's biggest stars in the back of that. And I would argue now that I've kind of really digested this and thought about this more, it is very, it was very hard to identify these stars early. It used to be easier. I think there was an easier path. Now, as I said, everybody's so good. Everybody also runs the same playbook. Everybody runs the

Conor McGregor playbook at this point. It's get into the UFC, you got two fights, you're already calling for the champion, you're calling for another bell. Everybody's running this exact same playbook. It doesn't feel fresh anymore. It felt fresh when Connor was doing it felt like, oh my god, I've never seen anything like this. Now't feel fresh anymore. It felt fresh when Connor was doing it. It felt like, oh my God, I've never seen anything like this. Now everybody does it.

But there are people who will ultimately do that. Think about another great example. One of the biggest stars you have right now, Charles Olivera. Lost all these fights out of nowhere. And he's one of your biggest stars. He is beloved by the fans. He has a massive following. He is huge now.

So I've kind of arrived at this idea that like, maybe what we defined as a star from the past is no longer what a star means anymore. And that is ultimately what I'm more coming to terms with. I don't think the vehicle for stardom is the same, nor do I think the UFC particularly like encourages it. I don't think in the way that they got behind a Conor or a Ronda and feeling like they had an opportunity to capitalize on

them to take them to a next step. As I said they're already the next step. They are there. They don't need anybody to propel them forward. They just need to keep the momentum going. They just need to keep the train running and if those stars come with them, if these new faces build up with them, take advantage of it, do what you can. But that speed that they've developed, they're a runaway train right now and there's no way to stop it. It is just continuing to go.

And if you spend that time like investing in building an individual star or spend too much time, maybe you're losing sight of if you just keep building the tracks in front of this train, it will keep going. It will keep going and you will keep getting that money thrown at you. So I wonder, I wonder what the UFC's motivation is to do it, but I don't know if they need to build a quote unquote star in the same way they did back then.

Also at this point in the game, how much, how much can they do other than giving them the platform, giving them the fight opportunities, and then letting them go from there, giving them the freedom to do whatever they want on social media, on their YouTube channel, when they get to press conferences, and then performing. Like, the performances are the key to all of this.

You need to put on exciting performances, pair that with your personality, and you will inevitably become a star if you become a champion in this sport. You're 100% right. It's harder now, I think, because, as we said, the schedule is so aggressive. They've got so many other business opportunities. There's so much to focus on.

Like, do they need to do more like custom promos? Like, is that what it is? Do they need to do? I wonder. And as I said, I'm not sure how motivated they would even be to actually do that. I don't think it's that. I think it's more the shift of the system in the sense

that they needed Conor McGregor to succeed. They needed Ronda Rousey to succeed. Their chips were in that basket because if that doesn't succeed, they're in a worse position. But currently, if Alex Perera loses, it's not doom and gloom. Alex Perera just lost. Their business will go on. They've got some great fights coming up.

Alex Perera may come back, maybe a star, but the stakes for failure are so much lower than they were back then. The stakes for success were so much higher and the stakes for failure were so much lower. If Conor McGregor flames out and never becomes it, that hurts them. But if they have somebody that they've kind of been pushing now and they don't pan out, they got one more behind that and they've got one more behind that and then they got one more behind that. And in the one more behind that and then they got one more behind That and in the meantime, they're still selling out a 20,000 gate seed arena They're having their record gate because that brand means so much more now The stakes are so much lower in terms of that quote-unquote star building that they don't need to prioritize it

They don't need to focus on it instead the stars develop the stars rise and it's based on those performances We're gassing them up, you know talking about how great everything is, you know rise, and it's based on those performances. We're gassing them up, talking about how great everything is, it's not a problem, everything like that. Where I do think they have a problem is the women's divisions. To me, it just feels like they're, that is where you can really point to

and be like the star power is lacking. Sure, you have Valentina Shevchenko, she is in the latter stages of her career, but you've lost the Amanda Nunes, you've lost the Ronda Rousey. You've lost the Chris Siseborg. You've lost Joanna Roses at the later stage of her career. Of her career, like Zhang is growing, but like she, I would not call her a star.

There's potential for Kayla Harrison. Julianna Pena is holding the belt right now. It feels like they are lacking a, what I would call a star in the women's divisions. I agree with that. Almost all of it, they're one place I'd push back. One thing that we didn't talk about that I wanna go back to is, we talked about all those American champions,

the sport has become significantly more global. Not in the sense that MMA was not a global sport back then because it was, as we know, like Brazil's long history of champions in the UFC. But there are so many more people getting into MMA around the world and then coming into the UFC and then becoming champions. Look at the landscape of the champions right now. Like no, like barely any Americans, if

any. Who's, who's an American champion right now? Is there one? John Jones, John Jones and Juliana Pena. Well, I guess Venezuela, if, if I'll count her as an American champion, but like John Jones, Bilal who also has an interim Bilal who says, hey, the Palestinian flag, but like is American. Uh, yeah, that's it. I'm pretty sure that's it.

Yeah. And so this is why I mentioned this now, Zhang, right? Zhang may not be a star based on the Instagram followers or whatever metrics we're kind of measuring. As I said, like this gets murky in terms of what we're quoting the star, but in China, she's huge. She is a massive star. She is huge. And if you are the UFC and you are TKO and you are Endeavor and you are thinking about

how to do business, having somebody who's massive in China is pretty damn good for you, especially somebody who you can say is our champion and somebody who we could put out in front. And so the metrics for success is like, if you're like, yeah, we're trying to build Zhang into a huge prospect in the US or a huge like a marketable star in the US, it's probably not gonna happen for you.

But you have that in your pocket when you're trying to expand potentially into Asia and thinking about what things and business you can do in China, that is a massive thing for you. And so- Yeah, I suppose that's true. I mean, we just saw with Kai Sakura in the 125 title fight against Pantosia.

It was like, yeah, he's not a household name over here, but if he wins and goes back to Japan with the belt, he's already a star there. He will become a superstar and captivate that audience. The business opportunities exist way beyond this US market and ways exist way beyond like American champions. I think American champions are definitely important. And it's one of the reasons I think like sport

like kickboxing never really like took off in the United States. You need like top level Americans and you've got guys like John Jones and you even have like the Dustin Poirier and the Justin Gagey who I would consider some of the UFC's bigger stars even though they are not champions.

You need guys like that to be successful and girls as well. You've got like a Kayla Harrison and Juliana Pena. Like you need those Americans because I think the US market still drives a lot of the media attention and still drives a lot of that business. But the fact that it's a global sport and the fact that they have all these international stars

is something to be proud of and something to To highlight you look at the NBA right now the best stars in the NBA are not American players now LeBron James is kind of like an exception doing it at 75 years old wrong or Tatum There's guys look like joke Joker Joker Luca SGA like the top guys the actual best players in the NBA right now are international stars. We will continue to see this against across sports. This is not just like a UFC MMA conversation. And so I think we have to think about what a star is. That's about it.

Specific. This is a valid point by you. Cause imagine how, or remember how much Brandon Moreno blew up, you know, and just how much the Mexican market blew up after he became champion. Then look at DDP, like the, the return how much the Mexican market blew up after he became champion. Then look at DDP, like the return that he gets when he returns to South Africa, the welcome that he gets

once he gets back there with the belt, it's massive. Magomedo Koliakov, when he landed at Dagestani Airport, people waiting to just cheer him on, everyone going crazy. Marab in Georgia, they threw a parade for the guy. Yuri in the Czech Republic, like, having these champions from these new markets, look at Ilya, the first Spanish champion he's going to Real Madrid games and there's 90,000 people and he's putting the UFC belt in front

of all of them and he's hanging with Sergio Ramos and all the biggest Spanish stars like he is a household superstar in Spain so yeah that is that is a decent point by you. The best the best mix of this is when you can do the the combo when you can have somebody who's a huge star and the nation is behind them like a GSP or a Conor McGregor or an Anderson Silva, where their nation is behind them, but they have like an American sensibility to them, where they have the theatrics and they can promote and you can figure out how to capitalize on them.

Conor McGregor was not an American, but Conor McGregor, people identified with him, American audiences identified with him. You don't need to be American for American people to support what you're doing and to get behind your story. And so even like a Jokic, like there are tons of American fans who love him, even though he is not from America. And so, and Janis, like there's infinite examples.

The best mix of that is when they are, when they had their nation behind them, but the American fans can still say, yeah, that guy's the best of the best, or girl's the examples. The best mix of that is when they are, when they have their nation behind them, but the American fans can still say, yeah, that guy's the best of the best or girl's the best of the best. And I can identify with them and I can tune in for them. So I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that we're seeing like less and less Americans,

but I do think it would help that instantaneous recognition for US audiences to be like, yeah, I root for that guy or girl. One other reminder with all of this is that MMA moves incredibly fast. So fast. Like the sport just keeps rolling. I see a lot of people like looking back on the post.

I mean, I've seen posts where people are looking back on like the champions in 2020 and it's like DC and Izzy and people like that. And they're like, oh man, we complained about these guys. Now we do anything to get them back. Like the sport moves unbelievably fast. Who knows what it'll look like in a year? Who knows who the champions will be in a year.

Like everything could be different. And I kind of wanted to run through with you, just like each specific weight class and kind of just give them like a barometer of like where they're at in terms of how is this division doing in terms of like star power and notoriety. I would love to do that.

I think there's two parallel conversations that have been like swirling in the MMA space simultaneously, which is like star, but then there's also boring. Okay. Are these guys boring? Cause I'm hearing a lot of this shit and we saw, who was it that tweeted recently?

Somebody recently tweeted and was like, if you find these people boring, like you're stupid. Or actually was it Mayhem Miller, who was on the show yesterday, who was on with Ariel yesterday and was like, how could you find Mara boring or people like that. I also feel like this conversation has taken

two kinds of separate paths, which is like, who's a star and also are the UFC champions boring? Cause I would love to get into. All right, let's do both of them as we go through it. Let's start with the flyway men's flyway division, Alessandro Pantoja.

I do not think that he is a star, despite being one of the best fighters on the roster. And I think a lot of that has to do with 125 just always being disrespected. You can look through rose colored glasses. You can look through the lens of nostalgia, especially with the late career resurgence, the post career resurgence, especially on his YouTube

with Demetrius Johnson, long reigning champ at 125, the UFC traded him. I admittedly was not a diehard fan back then, and I've talked to you, I was like, man, I wish I was around for DJs running. You're like, no, you don't. Like, people said he was boring, people said he was just ho-hum, run-of-the-mill guy.

Like, 125 just seems like it's always getting disrespected. Was Brandon Moreno the biggest star from 125? Of recent years? Like, I'm just trying to, just laying, yeah. was, was Brandon Moreno the biggest star from 125? Of recent years? Like I, I'm just trying to, yeah. Laying. Yeah. As you've, it has been a maligned division since the start.

People have always had a hard time identifying with, with the smaller guys. Um, yeah. DJ's run to the point that they traded them, like to the point that they traded over bed, ask her and they didn't give a shit about like a champion who had, what is it 12 title defenses, whatever his record is. DJ was much maligned. Everybody called him boring. Now all of a sudden we're looking back and be like,

ah, DJ, we miss him. Goat, goat, goat. Nobody was saying that at the time. Let's focus in on Pantoja. You say, not a star. I agree with that. Boring. Fuck.

Fuck no. No. One of the most exciting guys on the roster and the people that he's I agree with that, boring. Fuck. Fuck no. No, one of the most exciting guys on the roster and the people that he's fighting are also that Brandon Royval, not boring at all. Brandon Moreno, not boring at all. Kai Carre-France, not boring at all. Amir Al-Bazi, not boring at all.

That's Rui Tyra, exciting. Like Manel Kopp, exciting. Steve Ersak, exciting. Alex Perez, exciting. Like the whole top half of the Flyweight division is exciting. I'm gonna make notes on this as we go. So 125, no, not star. Doesn't have a star.

Not fucking like 0% boring. No, no, no. Fuck you if you think Pantos is boring. Everyone always says, and, uh, and a guy who talked to me on Monday morning about these fights in the office was like, yep. I showed, uh, I showed my girlfriend, uh, the, the fight on Saturday, which obviously was not that entertaining. Yeah.

The fight he was like, this is the one you want to sit down. Obviously it's been like the longstanding meme of like, you invite your friends over to watch and it's like the most boring fight of all time. She's like, Oh, I'll never watch it again. Everyone's always like, yeah, bring her over

for the, for the Pereira fight or the, uh, John Jones fight with the helper weight classes. No, bring her over for the Pantoja fight. Fuck it. And be like, watch these dudes go at it. We gotta start, we gotta Now bring her over for the Pantoja fight. Watch these dudes go at it. We got to start, we got to start to bring your girlfriend for Pantoja movement. Honestly, bring her for the pants fight.

She'll find like the, them being smaller, they'll be like, ah, they're so cute. Yeah, wait till they get in the octagon. Wait till he starts throwing. Wait till they get in the octagon. Pantoja definitively like an excitement machine. Okay. 35.

Let me start on this one. Please. Not a star, not a star, but. Getting there? an excitement machine. Okay. 35. Let me start on this one. Please. Not a star, not a star, but I think there's potential for Marab. Really I do. Get in there. And part of that is predicated on what we talked about earlier. I think this man's going to rack up some title defenses. I think this man is going to reign for a bit. Long may he reign is how you become a star. He's trying to add in the personality. He is desperately trying to add in the personality. I hope he takes some time off to get healthy, to kind of like recuperate.

It felt like he had some frustration with the UFC having to fight Umar that quickly. Hope he takes some time, gets rested, gets ready to go. And they do the O'Malley rematch. And I think like one easy way to go star is like, can they headline a pay-per-view and just feel like, okay, I got it with Marab. I think you need like a Sean O'Malley opposite him still to be like, yeah, we're gonna sell on pay-per-view with Marab.

So not a star, but I think there is star potential for Marab and he could be one of those guys that I'm talking about where it's like, we didn't think he was gonna be the guy and then he's the guy. I also think the star potential is like equal with, is he boring? I think as he was making his run-up,

he went on this long win streak. He basically had to beg for the title shot. He was just take down, take down, take down, take down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think as he's become a champion, he's worked more into his own right. He started taunting during the fights. He's like, okay, I'm dominating everyone.

I might as well throw some personality in that way and start doing the, you know, oh, miss me, bro. Kissing Sean O'Malley on the head, taunting Umar Nirmaga Medov as he dominates these guys. Yeah. It's becoming exciting. His fights are always intriguing.

You want to see what happens. It's not the guy who's going to flatline people. He's, he's almost always going to go through his decision. I would not say boring, but I would say he is, he is getting out of the boring category. I think people are starting to appreciate his game much more.

I think that's totally fair. I find him more exciting than most. I've always kind of like Marab style, mostly because as an academic exercise, I'm extremely fascinated by Marab style because as I've, like when we were talking about the Umar fight, he does not need to be successful to win fights, to dominate fights, which is so crazy to me, just like he does not need to score take downs, he just has to take, he just has to try a take down and he will to take, he just has to try a takedown and he will be winning the fight. He just has to try to strike and he will be winning the fight.

He's unlike anybody I've ever seen. And so I'm fascinated by him. Maybe that helps me get a little more excited than the average fan. I could understand how they might go, eh, it's not for me. But as you've said in the recent performances, what more can you ask for? The dude's putting on a show. So I'm going gonna say no. I think he's breaking through.

Not boring. I think he's breaking through. Not boring. And shout out to Jason Mayhem Miller who supports that opinion, because I agree with him. Featherweight, Elia? Yeah, I mean, come on.

There's no discussion. I'm gonna say star. Star. Not boring. Not boring. And then even now that he's vacated at Featherweight, Volk, Diego Lopez, here's the thing, like, and I wanted to get into this, Diego Lopez is not a star yet. He is certainly not boring.

Neither is Volkanovsky. And Volkanovsky is, I would say he's like, he's getting, he's like, he's right on the fringe of being like a star. I agree with that. Like I think he's beloved. I think people love him, but in terms of like the casual nature,

I feel like most people know who he is. Not all people know who he is. I think a good barometer is like, are you more famous than the people who are not champions, right? Like is Volk bigger than Max? Is Volk bigger than Dustin Poirier? Right.

And he's kind of like right there. He's not quite there yet. You know what I mean? But he's almost there or he's like, oh, maybe even if he's equal, your champion should be maybe a little bit elevated about of, of above top contenders. So like, I agree with you, like he's fringe.

He's like fringe for me. Diego Lopez has this, this opportunity to boom, like to, to blow up. He is headlining for a title on so far the biggest UFC card of the year in Miami. It is absolutely stacked. This is one that is going to get wide publicity. Everyone is going to be watching it and he is headlining it for about. He has an interesting look to him. He has personality.

He has a very exciting fighting style. If he goes out there and finishes Volkonovsky, he has something like 600 K followers on Instagram. I could see one of those like ESPN MMA tweeting out just like, oh, Diego Lopez went into the title fight against Volk with 600,000 followers on Instagram. Now he has 1.6 million and like the star of Diego Lopez begins to rise and we give him the Movstar rematch and like he starts trying to build it up at Featherweight.

I would not say he's a star, he's certainly not boring, but he has potential there. Like he has massive potential there. He's a perfect example of what I was talking about earlier where it's like, yeah, we didn't think he was going to be the guy and then all of a sudden Diego Lopez becomes a champion, Diego Lopez has four title defenses, and you're like, holy shit, Diego Lopez is a star.

Like it can happen, it can just happen that way, the same way it happened for Alex Pereira. He reps Brazil, he reps Mexico, like he does it both. And then he's on top of a card with guys that also have star potential with them. Co-main event, Patty Pemblit versus Michael Chandler. Oh yeah. Michael Chandler, I would say is a star.

Patty Pemblit, I would say is a star who has potential to become a superstar within the sport. He's only growing. He only keeps winning. If he beats Michael Chandler, then he's in that top six, seven range and like we're, we're eyeing like, man, he's like one or two away from getting a title shot. Carlos Proches goes out there and knocks Jeff Neil out.

He just keeps on truckin' baby fight nerds to the moon. You got John Silva on that card now too against Bryce Mitchell. Another guy, knock out Bryce Mitchell, who was in the news for these crazy comments and everything that he said a few weeks ago. And it's like Dana White's like, oh, the good news is he fights in the UFC.

You can see him get knocked out. That guy's gonna be John Silva. There's the guy and he's gonna go bark into weeks ago. And it's like Dana White, it's like, oh, good news is he fights in the UFC. You can see him get knocked out. That guy's gonna be John Silva. There's the guy. And he's gonna go bark into the camera afterward and he's gonna put on the glasses and he's gonna cut a promo in Portuguese. And then you got Pitbull on there as well. It's like, yes, he's older,

but it's like, man, welcome to the UFC. But it's that good mix of Volk, Pitbull, like established older guy. Chandler. And then like up and coming. It's a great mix of that. Yeah, I mean, that 314 card is a potential showcase. All right, let's keep rolling. 145, obviously star, obviously not boring, next.

155, this is the one you just don't even have to talk about. Not boring, obvious star. Maybe your biggest star in the sport besides Conor McGregor, but I'm not even counting him in this discussion right now because we just don't know if he's going to fight. Islam Makashev, your champion. He is now racking up the title defenses.

He is starting to set records, whether it be the longest win streak in UFC history, whether it be longest, uh, longest, most title defenses in a row at 155. Like he's getting into those numbers where he, he could potentially start breaking records and like really become an all time great and all time superstar in this sport. And then beyond that, come on, you got Charles, you got Dustin, now you got Max, now you got Justin. You got, you got a Hanato Moekano, you got Patty Pimple. You got Ilya in there now.

Like it's like 155, there's no discussion here. This is going to be a hot take. Islam Makachev is boring. With how fucking good he is because there's nobody who can even touch the guy. It's ridiculous how good he is. I'm bored by his greatness. I wanna see him challenged in the way that Volkanovsky

did in their initial first fight. He's just so fucking good. It's ridiculous to me how good he is and he's such a big star. He's almost like, I'm joking about his dominance, his greatness being boring, but it almost does work against him to a certain degree because some of the greatness comes out when you're like really pushed and you're really challenged.

I think that Valk fight did a lot for Islam, actually. Shit, the Dustin fight. And the Dustin fight. It got bloodied up in that one. Now, you know, Ariel talked about how it was two, two, like in reality, it was, it was a three, one for Islam.

We're not going to rehash that. It was a great fight. He almost needs somebody to really like push him in the way that Valk did in that first fight. And I, and I need, maybe it's not a great fight. He almost needs somebody to really like push him in the way that Volk did in that first fight. And I, and I need it. Maybe Ilya can be that guy. His greatness almost works against him in the sense that it's like, most people don't think he can lose.

Like don't think he can be challenged. And so he's just going to continue to reign. Sometimes you need that adversity and I would like to see that, but he's, he's criminally overlooked. When we talk about how bad the stars that the UFC has, he's a onea with a bullet Islam Makachev is a massive star no doubt after the last pay-per-view three not 313 after 312 I got into the uber and the guy asked me what I was doing you

know so late at night and everything I was like oh you know watching the UFC fights blah blah blah he's just like oh oh, he's like, you know Islam Makashev? I'm just like, yeah, I know Islam Makashev, yeah, dude. I am aware of one of the sports biggest stars. And he just went on this rant about how much he loves Islam Makashev, and I was just like, ah, shout out to Islam, but he also has, if we wanna play the fun game of projection

of what could become for Islam, it's just like, he could get a super fight against Ilya Taporyev, hand Ilya Taporyev his first loss, or flip side of that, Ilya Taporyev gets the upset, now he's double champ, now it's Ilya Taporyev is the biggest art of this sport. If he knocks off Islam, dude is, rocket ship is already on his back,

put 10 of them and just absolutely blast them off. If he goes up there. If he does it. And starches Islam or chokes him out or does whatever he says he's gonna do, and him out or does whatever he says he's gonna do. And I can't, whatever he says he's gonna do, I have to trust because he just does it. He goes out and does that, strap 10 rockets to his back

and it's like 15 million followers, pay per views, do the show in Spain, do it at a stadium. But if Islam wins, it's just like, okay, now he's handed Ilya his first, his first L, then like the murmurings really start to talk, especially if Bilal loses his belt at some point in the next year. It's like, what if he just goes up to 170? If he has double champ potential, his size, his strength, everything like that.

It's just like the potential is there. And if he leaves 155, we'll still be in good hands. Yeah, a hundred percent. And even without that, even if, even if the Ilya fight is just another win and then maybe it doesn't go up to 170, he just continues to stay at 55. This is the path to greatness. This is how you achieve it. It's just like how you continue it.

At this point now, it's just like each win is just like closer and closer to just greatness. It's just like, I think he's at 15 wins in a row right now, and then it's just like 16, 17. It's like, oh, he's 31 in one. Oh, he's 32 in one. Oh, he has eight title defenses at lightweight in a row. It's just like each win becomes huge. And if he's doing it against these massive, massive stars,

like a guy like Ilya Toporya, if he were to fight Charles again, if he were to fight Justin, like these superstars at 155, like the potential is there. I think a second belt will be massive, but at the same time, like I almost feel like Islam exists so far outside the like scope of normal kind of conversation

in that I don't think he needs a second belt. He can take that Habib path and just be a dominant 55er and his legacy, his career, his greatness, his star power will all be there. 70 would take it to another level though, but I don't think he quote unquote needs it. All right, let's go to 170. Yeah.

This is the one division. Not a star. Not a star. I would say on the side of, of boring, especially amongst fans believes that Balal is boring, but beyond that, like I love JDM boxing, love him. Not a star at all.

Does not bring a ton of personality to the table. Like if he were to take the belt from Balal, I feel like they're still in like a similar situation of the 170 champion, not being a star. Not a star. No JDM would not be a star even on the heels of that victory. like if he were to take the belt from Bilal, I feel like they're still in like a similar situation of the 170 champion not being a star. Not a star, no. JDM would not be a star even on the heels of that victory. I really want to push back against Bilal being boring

because I feel like that narrative has really taken over. I understand, I get it. I'm not about to sit here and just go, every single person is exciting. It's not the most exciting style. But what I think will happen inevitably with Bilal is what I think happens with Marab, which is like, you just have to acknowledge how good and how well-rounded the guy is. It's actually almost the exact same story of just

like got up to so many wins in a row and then ends up finally getting the shot and it's like, oh, you mean the guy that just like won a million fights in a row is actually like really good at fighting and he became the champion? Like I'm shocked. Hamza Tshemayev and Bilal are not the same, right? When you watch a Hamza actually like really good at fighting and he became the champion. Like I'm shocked. Hamzat Shamiah and Bilal are not the same, right?

When, when you watch a Hamzat Shamiah fight and he's shooting from 20 feet across the cage and trying to rip Robert Whitaker's head off, it is a lot different than when Bilal is like, yeah, I'm just going to be pretty damn good with the boxing. I'm going to mix in some takedowns and I'm really just going to have a stop.

I think we have, we have just made every, like everybody wants everybody to be boring. I almost feel like there's a motivation for like people to say like stuff is boring when it's not boring. At the same time, I'm not going to sit here and be like, yeah, the fight that I'm like, yo, call my friends over is Bilal Mohammed's fight, but I don't find him boring. I'm just going to sit on that fence. I'm going to sit on that line where it's like, I don't find Bilal Mohammed boring. I just don't. Period. Like, I will watch a Balaam Mohammed fight happily. I think he's super well-rounded. I think he's super skilled. But at the same time, I'm gonna acknowledge when the ones I get up for

are not that. It's the hamsatz and the other people that will potentially talk around the rest of this list. So I'm perfectly fine like kind of riding that fence sitting in that middle ground where I'm like, I'm not gonna call him boring, but I understand if somebody's like, that's not my favorite style, that's fine for me. I can accept that. Also, I mean, beyond that, Leon is not like wildly exciting.

No. Like Sean Brady is not like wildly exciting. Like they are unbelievable fighters. Do not get me wrong, all of these guys, especially at the top of this division, are unbelievable fighters, but like, they're not wildly exciting, they don't have massive personalities.

Like 170 is the division. Like I feel like a Shavkat will be the biggest star, especially if he becomes champion. A Carlos Pratsch is- Ian Machado could- Ian Machado definitely could be, I mean, he gets on the mic, he makes sure that he shows his personality,

he tries to connect to the audience. That is it. We- A Joaquin Buckley too? We can't just, yeah, that's a great one, we can't just measure the performance alone in a vacuum because as you said, when Ian gets on the mic, it does something different. It creates something different. And so you can sell the fight without being a

particular, I'll give you a perfect example. This is a perfect example. Is Sean Strickland an exciting fighter? Oh, this is a great example. No, no, no. He's just not like I would say here. I'd rather watch ball all than Sean Strickland. Sean Strickland is the, is the Venn diagram,

but it's just two separate circles. And it's just like, way he talks about the fight way he fights. And so people love Sean Strickland are, and are excited by Sean Strickland, but it's not because of the in-cage performance. And I can understand that. And I perfectly accept that.

It's actually because of one in cage performance. The Izzy one where he won the belt was the one that like propelled him to this superstar status. He became champion. He says all these things on the microphone. He connects to the audience, everything like that. But then the other ones have matched the rest of what we saw from Sean Strickland.

Yeah. And, and even that one, like it was a great, don't get me wrong, a master class. It was just a Sean Strickland fight. And so he's selling more of that outside the cage thing. There's other ways to do it. I would argue that like he's not an, I don't know how to phrase it.

Like I guess he's an exciting fighter, but it's not the fighting. It's the other parts of it. It's the things that like he's gonna say on the mic. It makes you want to watch. It makes you want to tune in. And so there's other ways to do it. It's not only about that.

Anyway, suffice it to say like, I'm kind of like in the middle on, on Bilal. I'm kind of in the middle on 170, but I understand. I understand where people. I think for the UFC, the best case is if Shafkat become an undefeated champion. Or if Bilal just keeps going and all of a

sudden he's five title defensive. Yeah. And you're just like, I have to fucking respect this guy. We forget Habib. Like, oh,. And you're just like, I have to respect this guy. We forget Habib. Like, oh, first of all, I mean, I tried to float this with Ariel when we were on having a conversation like this last time. Like I found most of GSB's career pretty boring.

Um, I know he's an all time great. I know. I, I found most of GSB's career pretty boring. I was always an Anderson Silva guy. And like, I think we're looking at guys who are of that mold, like Bilal reminds you of GSP in the sense that like, he's not, I know he says he's the best boxer in the UFC.

I don't agree with that sentiment. He said he's going for zero takedowns against JDM. Sure. Yeah, sure. Okay. But he's, he's capable enough in his feet that he can, wherever you're uncomfortable,

he's comfortable, right? So if you're uncomfortable in the takedowns, he can take you down. If you're uncomfortable on the feet, he can beat you on the feet. Right? We saw it against Sean Brady. Sean Brady is a better grappler than a striker.

Ball's like, sure, let me piece you up on the feet. JDM, I imagine he's going to shoot for takedowns and I imagine he's going to have him uncomfortable. All right. So you say that go on the long title run. If he does that, that means he beat Shavkat at some point. He handed him the first.

Oh, that, that will gain him a massive respect. I mean, also if Shavkat wins, he'll be the first. Oh, that will gain him a massive amount of respect. I mean, also if Shafqat wins, he'll be the first champion from Kazakhstan, which will be massive. Can you imagine the reception he'll get when he comes home? It'll be huge for a place that loves combat. I mean, Triple G, like they have had.

Instagram flags just go, they go crazy. Anytime you go on anything, anytime he tweets, it does, the engagement is just insane. Bro out in Kazakhstan are just liking every Shavkat post, they're just the Shavkat army. Besides the point, if Bilal wins that fight, it's very similar to bring us right into 185. DDP has massive star power, good looking dude,

exciting style, gets on a mic and trash talks like nobody's business, like very underrated trash talker. Hamza Shamiyev is waiting in the wings. He, in my opinion, Shavkat and Hamza if they get the belt they will be bigger stars But by defeating them you become a star in your own right Bilal and DDP 100% I think I think you're right to point that out like you you get some of what they lost like what that potential was gonna Be you get to capture some of that and I think that'd be big. Let's let's talk DDP I think like he's not there yet. Let's talk to you DP. I think like.

He's not there yet. He's like, Definitely not boring. He's early star. He's like, on the cusp. Beats Hamzat, if that's his next fight. That's what propels him. Yeah, that'll launch it.

That's what propels him. I think you're right. And the resume he's racking up, the wins he's got. His eyes that are going to be on that one because Hamzat Shumayev is finally fighting for a title. And what he's going to do, we know, we've seen it in fights before. He can talk on the mic, good looking dude.

He'll pro he'll promote the fight properly. He'll get in the cage. And if he wins, it's probably going to be an exciting fashion. I can't imagine him and Hamza point fighting for 25 minutes. And if he retains the belt, then that's where you really start to propel the super.

So let, let's transition right to the second half of that. Definitively not boring. DDP, if you called him boring, you're not watching fighting. Like, I don't know, like even the Sean Strickland performances, some people didn't love them. I didn't love them either, but I didn't find it boring either. I was kind of just in the middle there. Um, DDP is a, is a savage, like definitively not boring, but like, I

think we're both aligned in terms of, I would say Hamsad is the biggest star in that division. Do you disagree? I think Hamsad is top five biggest star in the sport. Yeah, so I think Hamsad's more the star than the champion at a division, but if he beats him, that balance starts to shift. And also I think regardless,

let's say maybe it's not his next fight, I still think DDP is gaining so much momentum right now. If Hamsad gets the belt, he's. Yeah. It's like you said with Ilya, the sky, the roof comes off. If he goes out there and finishes someone for the belt and he's at that point, what 15 and O belt, still talking the way he talks. Yeah.

Looking unstoppable. If he goes out there and melts DDP in the first round, like, it's just like, tie your wagon to this guy because he is your next superstar. And with his size, man, there's potential down the road. Five, move up. Yeah. Like there is potential there.

And then like beyond that, like you still got the Whitakers. You still got the Izzy's hanging around, Nasruddin coming along. UFC stars, I would say. Nasruddin would, if Manon Viro loses, Nasruddin would be, you know, the potential first undisputed champion. I was thinking more, you know, the Whitaker

and Israel guys, like you go to New Zealand, you go to Australia. These are the guys at the top of the card. They're selling the arenas. Go to France. I guess. Yeah. I don't know.

I don't know enough about the French market. He's not a star. Um, I would say Cyril Gaens is still probably the top French star, right? No doubt. Like Olympic torch, like movies. He's still the guy. Uh, all would say Serogon's still probably the top French star, right? Like Olympic torch, like movies. He's still the guy. Uh, all right, let's go to 205.

Maghman on Kalaev, is he born? Yes. Yeah, I'll say yes as well. Uh, but it feels like he's, he's trying to open up the personality a little bit. Now that he's got the belt, Big Onk, Mohammed, Big Onk on Kalaev. I have to be fair. If I'm going to launch a defensive below Muhammad and say like, no, but he's so well-rounded.

Like he's a great fighter, but I apply this. I have to apply the same to uncle I have, like, I don't fall asleep during an uncle I have fight, but he's not showing me anything. That's like getting me super excited. You don't bring the girlfriend over for the big onk. It's not the onk fight. And so, and even less so let's, let's be real. Like even in this win against Alex Pereira, like it was not thrilling.

There was not a lot of volume thrown. We should be clear Alex Pereira was in that cage and did not do anything. So it's not uncle I have fault, but like, yeah, he's, he's not thrilling me. And if like, I think we're both going to align. He's not a star, not yet. No, not yet, but there's stars waiting in the wings.

Pereira is still there. Yuri, the man standing over your shoulder, is still there. Jan, on the back half of his career. I think Carlos Alvarez could potentially be a star. Representing that region of the world, he's got the look. He's got the style. He's got the fighting style.

Like he could become a star if he gets the belt and gets a couple of defenses. And I think, I keep coming back to this, Like he could become a star if he gets the belt and gets a couple of defenses. And I think, I keep coming back to this, but it's something I arrived at when I was doing the comparison from then to now. Yeah, Uncle I have doesn't feel like a star, Bilal doesn't feel like a star.

With four or five title defenses, it starts to feel different. You blink and you get four or five title defenses and then it's just like, huh, oh yeah. It looks a little different. When's Big Onk fighting next? It's like when you haven't seen your ex-girlfriend or something in a while, and all of a sudden,

they got a haircut and they're looking good, and you're just like, oh shit. Next thing you know, you get a notification that Big Onk got booked for a fight, and you're like, let's fucking go, baby, Big Onk is back. But yeah, I think winning cures a lot of this, but right here and now, not a star, and I don't find him particularly thrilling,

but I'm not like, I don't think it's impossible. Heavyweight John Jones, star, obviously, one of the top five stars in the sport. Yes, exciting, GOAT, everything like that. But here's the thing that I wanted to touch on in this one, the potential for Tom Espinol is limitless. Very exciting, not a star, in my opinion. I agree with you, not a star yet. If he gets the John Jones fight and he goes in there and does what he has done to all of his previous

opponents. Star. Yep. Star. It takes one for him. Blast off. Like this. Blast off. He's coming in. Tom is in a very unique position. There's two fights out there for him and both of them can make him a star, Alex Pereira and John Jones. If he wins either of those two, he's a star. Let's say both. Let's, let's say he goes in there. Shortest average fight time, big good looking dude representing England, cool tattoos, insane fighting style.

Like he's in there for 90 seconds and then he's out wins every time of late. If he goes in there and does the John Jones and then does it again to Alex Pereira, like he's in there for 90 seconds and then he's out, wins every time of late. If he goes in there and does the John Jones and then does it again to Alex Pereira, like you're dealing with one of the biggest stars in your hand, because then after that, I think long may he reign, he will defend that belt

many times after that. Yeah. I don't, I don't think Alex Pereira has a chant, like a snowball's chance in hell against Tom Aspinoff, I'm being honest. Like I want to. Tom Aspinoff will be training with the Superbowl champion Philadelphia Eagles

and just drilling tackles. Just get down in a three point stance and just drill it. People, people misunderstood, like, you know, I have after, in the aftermath of 313, I've been saying, I want to see Alex Perra go up to heavyweight. I think they're misunderstanding this as

like a rooting interest in Alex Perra, all of a sudden, like beating everybody at heavyweight. I don't think that this as like a rooting interest in Alex Perera all of a sudden like beating everybody at heavyweight I don't think that's particularly like likely nor do I think that's like going to happen I think that his the things he can gain at light heavyweight are not as shiny and not as Worth the risk as they are at heavyweight to take the risk to go in there and if you knock out a Tom Aspin Or if you knock out of John Jones to go in there. And if you knock out a Tom Aspinall or if you knock out a John Jones, much like we're talking about now, your star potential is through the roof. And I think Alex Perer would be better served to take that opportunity, but do not mistake it. If

Tom Aspinall and Alex Perer get into a cage, I think Tom Aspinall beats him in less than a minute. I think he takes them down and chokes them out pretty quickly because I'm that high on Tom Aspinall. It has made me question whether I think for the first time ever that I'm going to pick somebody against John Jones. Other than I said, prime Francis Ngannou versus John Jones. I was ready to pick Francis. It ultimately never happened. Tom would be somebody who would make me question whether I'm finally ready to pick against John Jones again. I think that highly of Tom.

Here's the concern. And you've said this many times about the heavyweight division is the depth there. There's nothing else. Say Tom beats John. John says, all right, that's it for me. I'm out. Peace y'all. Here's the concern and you've said this many times about the heavyweight division, is it the depth there? There's nothing else. Say Tom beats John, John says, all right, that's it for me. I'm out, peace y'all, thanks for everything.

Then you have Tom, maybe Pereira if he moves up. You have Cyril Ghan who's coming off the questionable win against Volkov, I felt like it was a robbery. Then you have Volkov, Pavlovich, Blades, Jelton Almeida, Marcin Tibera. Yeah, it's not good. Spivak. Like we, you get down to like six, seven,

eight, and it's, it's, it's rough. Tom needs these fights desperately. Tom needs an Alex Perera and a John Jones desperately. Or Tom beats John, Tom beats Alex, and then he goes on this long run against much lesser opponents, but it's just Tom's fighting, I have to watch. Yeah, we're in a very bad era of heavyweight MMA.

It is very bad. All right, let's run through the women's quickly. Yeah. And then, I mean, we gotta get the, let's see, Vegas 104, let's see, Duke of Mon, women's straw weight, Zhang Weili. See, this is a hard one because-

Yeah, yeah, I will say she's on like the cusp of being a star. I think so too. And I think as we said, that Chinese market is important. It's huge. It's huge. It is the biggest market, like billion people there. And she, she has sway and clout there.

Now, can you capitalize on that? If you're the UFC, I don't think they have like successfully done all of that yet, but we are now seeing like road to UFC with the, with the Asian events, like they, UFC with the with the Asian events like they they are investing in the Asian market and so I think there's something there that puts her like right there and not boring obviously. Not boring, no not boring. She might be one of the most exciting women's fighter on the roster. Beyond that though, yeah, Jean-Ann,

no not a star Tatiana Suarez she had potential there, but I don't think so anymore. Verna, not a star. Andraj at the end of her career, Lemmish, not a star. Dern, she's exciting and could be a star if she became champion, but that's yet to be seen. There's potential there if she can keep winning. It's kind of tough after that. Women's flyweight, Valentina, I would say is a star.

Yeah. She's almost, like, she's in like a valk territory for me, where it's like, Perfect comparison. You're like there, you're like there, based on the accolades, based on how good you are, and based how much people love and respect you. Beloved by the community.

But like, can you go, Valentina's coming to town, we're headlining, like she's in a co-main, you know? Like it's hard. Yeah. And so, I know? Like it's hard. Yeah. And so I'm like cusp with her. Beyond that, Manon Fioro. Yeah. Alexa Grasso.

The women's divisions are light. They are very light. I really think that's, they're starved for like a women's superstar, like a Ronda and Amanda Nunez. Women's band to weight, Juliana Pena. I mean, she's a star. Star, biggest star, most exciting. We don't even have to keep going.

Beyond that though, like it's Kayla and that's it at 135. I think Kayla's a good like second option here. Like in terms of you put her in the title fight against Juliana, you've got your two, you've got your two biggest names, no doubt. Like that is an easy. Oh, at 135, no question. Like, and maybe two of your biggest names

on the women's roster. Like these are the ones. And so Kayla's Kayla's good. But then after that, it's like what? They just, they just lack so much depth in these, in these women's divisions. They've done a poor job building this up. And so this is where I arrive at, like the,

when we go through this, you do go, okay, beyond the champions, like are there stars? You start to have that question. What is evident to me though, is what I said earlier, as I was doing the exercise is like, would I have said like Hamzat? No, because we didn't even know Hamzat existed a few years ago.

Yeah. They come, these guys kind of, and girls just kind of emerge at some point and they start to do something great and people tune in and the business just keeps rolling. The UFC keeps putting on the events, they keep giving the platform, they keep giving the opportunity, and these stars, quote unquote stars, emerge.

And so that's where I ultimately landed on it, is like we are trying to analyze something that I think is an inexact science. We are trying to apply something exact to something that I do not feel is exact. Let's go beyond the champions of 10 years ago. I've just looked up a random rankings list from 2015, beyond the champions from there, and let's not conflate legend and star.

Right. That is easy to do. That is easy to do. Let's go like the champion was Demetrius Johnson, but like beyond that John Dodson. By the way, not a star. Demetrius Johnson, not a star. John Dodson.

Nope. Joe B. No. There was Henry Cejudo, Ian McCall. Not at that time. No, not for Henry. T.J. Dillashaw was champ.

Ish, maybe. Cus, C. Not at that time, no. Not for Henry, no. Vantamweight, TJ Dillashaw was champ. Ish, maybe. Cus, beyond that dominant Cruz. Cruz is entering. Yeah, Cruz is entering Star territory. The smaller guys just. But also a legend. The smaller guys were just not respected

back then, unfortunately. That's the thing, like Cruz and DJ were doing some shit that was like, holy shit, and everybody was just kind of like, eh, but they're small. Yeah. It was a weird time. Rafael Asunso? No, definitely not. Featherweight, Conor McGregor.

Easiest, that's a small time. Blegga, whatever rhymes with megastar. Be big. Jose Aldo. Yeah, at that time, yeah. Yeah, so it's almost like Featherweight was like the star one, because if you look like Frankie Edgar after that.

Well, okay, at the time Frankie was big. Frankie had some, beating BJ Penn and the things he was able to do, he became one of the UFC's guys. He was undersized and I think he suffered from a little bit of that small man stuff that like people were just like, ah he's too small. But he did have some like more mainstream appeal at that time.

Yeah, no I'm agreeing with you. The thing though was, style-wise, he was really just primarily a one-two boxer. It wasn't like, now, the Grey Maynard series, they were going to absolute war and really established that. There's some people now that would just be like, yeah, Edgar Maynard too, I think was the craziest one.

That's one of my favorite fights ever. So yeah, I think he had something. RDA, lightweight champ, not a star. Anthony Pettis in the Waiting in the Wings. Okay, he was on a Wheaties box, so I'm gonna say yeah at the time. I was gonna say he was on a Wheaties box. He was on a Wheaties box.

I'm gonna say yeah. But even- Yeah, there it is. There it is. Is the cereal still in here? Yeah. Harrell never opened it? No.

I don't like a good box of Wheaties, you think he'd mind? Shout out to, no, don't do it. I think he might. Shout out to, shout out to Anthony Pettis in the Wheaties, you think you'd mind? Shout out to, no don't do it. You think you'd mind. Shout out to, shout out to Anthony Pettis in the Wheaties box. Hey, shout out to Anthony. I mean, when we think about the Wheaties box, like that's Olympians, Jordan.

Stars. It's the biggest stars, so yeah. Lightweight is always stacked. I mean, Donald Cerrone, Khabib, Betty Alvarez, Tony Ferguson. At the time though, Khabib, not a star. Like let's just call it what it is. We have to, as I said,

sometimes we don't ID these guys early. Sometimes it just happens. Let's go 170, Robbie Lawler. No. Roy McDonald. No. Johnny Hendrix. Nope.

Right. GSP was the star. He was floating in and out. Middleweight Luke Rockhold. Sex appeal? Wideman more. Wideman was to Joel Romero. Wideman more.

So it was a light heavyweight DC. Yeah. DC and Jones after that. DC and Jones, yes. So it was a light heavyweight DC. Yeah. John Jones after that. DC and Jones, yes. But then like Alexander Gustafson, Ryan Bader. No. And then heavyweight for Doom. Definitely not.

So you're looking at it, are we like, oh my God, there's so many more stars versus then? Sometimes Habib's sitting there, and we would have been like, at this time, if we were sitting here doing this exact same exercise, it and be like, no, obviously not Habib, not a star. And then all of a sudden, two years later, three years later, you turn around and you're

like, Holy shit, big one, the second biggest star we've ever had behind Conor McGregor, maybe globally in terms of the Muslim support and things like that, like one of the biggest stars ever in sport. And so we're just looking at this and. It's almost like we're in a lull right now, or it feels like we're in a lull right now, but we could be out of it like that.

And it's not like we are completely drained of stars here. It's a great shout to be like Diego Lopez, Patty Pimblitt. These could be the guys that all of a sudden, three years from now, we're like, yeah, they were star, they're, they're stars now. And we just didn't know.

And so this, they, like, there is no, there is no way to like perfectly identify this. There is no like exact science to this. I don't believe that you can kind of do this exercise and everything exists in a vacuum, because we also don't know with how fast this sport moves who they're fighting next. If all of a sudden, Patty Pimlet is fighting Conor McGregor in his next fight, you best fucking believe that the guy could be the biggest star in the sport overnight. Like it just happens that way. And so who knows where this is going to be, but I'm is fighting Conor McGregor in his next fight, you best fucking believe that the guy could be the biggest star in the sport overnight.

Like it just happens that way. And so who knows where this is gonna be, but I will push back a little bit against the quote unquote like star problem. That's where I ultimately land. I say no, there is not a star problem. I find the things that bother me the most or turn me off the most is low quality cards

and it happening several times a month. I mean, this card this weekend is not a high quality card. I think there's a much bigger problem in terms of card quality than star power, truly. I believe that. I really think that is the case. And then I guess from the UFC standpoint, maybe more effort into promos and things like that,

but if you're the UFC, it's just like, is that really gonna help us that much? We're bigger than we've ever been. And proof of that is just how big they are. We have the metrics for YouTube and then Instagram and X and their followings compared to other major organizations around the world. There's Instagram, NBA obviously kills it on socials.

90 million, EPL, 76.9. Like FIFA World Cup has 50. And then there's the UFC right there. Outclassing WWE, outclassing F1, outclassing NFL, outclassing MLB, NHL. They're lower on X, sure. NBA like king of social platforms. Like they just absolutely kill it.

But like they're competitive with these other major leagues and then YouTube. Like, and even if you wanna, if you don't wanna count WWE, absolutely kill it. But like they're competitive with these other major leagues and then YouTube, like, and even if you want to, if you don't want to count WWE, I'd get it. Like they really are just like the entertainment business. Because they're doing like scripted entertainment on YouTube. Scripted entertainment that they can clip off, put on YouTube and it's going to do mega numbers.

But like, dude, they're right there with NBA and FIFA and then they're above NFL, they're above F1, they're above EPL, they're above MOB, above NHL. Like they are massive. They are as big as they have ever been. There's one thing we've kind of been around but haven't said, and that prompts me to say it. The UFC is the biggest star.

The UFC is the star. Oh, 1000%. The product, the brand, the UFC is the star. And maybe by design, they don't need to, as I said before, they were chasing the money. We need Conor McGregor to elevate the UFC. We need Ronda Rousey to elevate the UFC so we can get into these conversations for multi-billion dollar rights deals. Now the UFC is the star. They are coming to give

them money for rights deals. They don't care if Alex Pereira or Magomed Ankaleyev is champion. They're not worried about the UFC's current slate of champions because they know over the course of those deals there's going to be new champions, there's going to be new stars, they know that that will refresh and the UFC has been very good about just making that happen. Also credit to them they know what they're doing. Like we mentioned some of these guys that we mentioned that like aren't as fan friendly the Magomed on Kalaya's, the Balaam Mohammed's, the Leon Edwards, the Marado Vazheich Viles. There's a reason they had to go on insanely long runs and everyone is banging the drum.

Title shot, title shot, title shot. You need to give them a title shot. And the UFC was hesitant to do so because of their unfan friendly style. The UFC knows what they're doing in terms of like, oh, this guy's probably gonna be a star. Sean O'Malley gets pushed harder. Alex Pereira gets pushed harder.

Hamza Tshemayev gets pushed harder. Like they see who could potentially be a star and they push that. Like that's why these rankings, that's why the matchmaking is not done, you know, by the ratings, by the rules. It's not a meritocracy. It is who's going to be a star for us. Yeah. So please understand this.

As I say this, please understand that I am not advocating for like, I'm not like, you know, Joe business. I'm not like, yay, UFC's a successful business, go them. Like, I'm not rooting for them. Let's go, biggest gate, biggest gate, baby. I don't care about their success in that regard, right? Like, I'm not a shareholder. That is not my angle here.

But what I would say, from the logic, right? From the logic, if you were the UFC, and let's say you're a fan who's like, had a product think the same as it used to be, man, the product ain't as good as it used to be. What percentage is it? Is it like 70% as good? Is it 50% as good? Whatever number that is, come up with a number in your head. If you feel like the UFC product is not as good as it was before,

come up with that number. Let's say it's 50% as good. Let's say it's 70% as good. Are you not watching every card? Are you not watching the Apex cards? Whatever. You're just not watching the Apex card. The UFC is like, yeah, we don't care. So what's the pay reviews in the fight nights? That's cool. If you're that person, let's say it's 50% is good.

Their revenues have increased by 15, 20 X. So logically in their line of business, if we're making 15 to 20 more and the indicators are going, you're doing great at business, you're doing exactly what you need to be doing, the fans are responding in a positive way, and there's a few people out there that are 50% as interested, the numbers still work in the favor of them to continue doing what they're doing. So the, and I've said this in the past when people are like, ah, these crappy cards that they're putting on, well, you're watching them. And if you watch them and you continue to support them,

then you're giving an indicator to the business, you're giving an indicator to the UFC or any other MMA promotion that this is what I want. If you tune out, now you're telling them you don't. So as these numbers continue to grow and their business is growing 500, 1,000% in that time, so the point that, as I want, they got 1.5 billion for five years. Now they're looking at 1 billion a year in a rights deal. And it's the product

is only 50% is good. It's just good business. Honestly, like if you're going to keep eating the product at 50% and we're making 10 to 15 times more, they're doing good business. And unfortunately, like, that's how that's going to continue to go. I would argue that, like, the product is nearly, like, identical, pretty similar to what it used to be. I will not ignore the call or anybody who says, like, the stars are not the same. That argument I can understand. I don't think that they have a star problem. I don't think that they have a lack of stars. What I think is the stars of 2010s, the stars of the mid 2010s, the 2015-2016 range are not identical. There's a

little bit of personality missing that we had at that era that isn't there now. There's a little bit of being able to go on a long title run and spend some more time learning about these people that is not there anymore. But I would actually think about the fact that by design, it's kind of that way. We're not supposed to get invested in stars in the same way because they turn over so fast. And if you spend all that time and energy, if you're the UFC building up these people,

and then they don't pan out to be what they're gonna, like everybody thinks like, ah, the UFC is in the bag for Sean O'Malley. They built them up so much, they did so much for him. Like, yeah, they probably put him in positions to succeed. But then a Marab comes along and all that was for nothing anyway, right? I don't think Sean O'Malley ever beats Marab. I don't think that's possible. I think Marab is always gonna have Sean O'Malley's number. And so you go and you build them up and you invest all this energy and effort into them.

And then all of a sudden Marab comes in and then what's your plan now? So their plan has been sit back, make the fights. If an outcome happens, that's favorable for us. Great. If the outcome happens, that's not favorable, that's great, but that non-favorable outcome, that one's going to change over soon too. And they just keep the train rolling and keep

the train rolling and keep the train rolling. So ultimately factor fiction, the UFC has a star. Just about to ask you, tie the bow on it. I think fiction. I say fiction. I don't think it's a problem but I think stars are different than they were in the past and a lot of that is personality and also man it is fucking hard to get people's attention now. It is just really hard. It really is. And like makes it a little bit

tougher when they're not getting featured on the Sports Center. It's like I can't really, maybe it's because I'm watching less Sports Center. Can't remember the last time I turned on Sports Center and they're like talking UFC, other than when they're having conversations with Dana White. Meanwhile, they're doing multi-billion dollar rights deals in the soon future. One thing I just want to add, let us know. Send a Super Chat in.

We just did, what did we do, an hour 20 talking about this? I really was pretty passionate about doing this. I feel like we had a good conversation. I want to hear from you guys. Send us a Super Chat. Just jump in the chat in general. Let us know, did we miss anything? Are we off? Are you feeling a certain type of way about the fandom?

Let us know and by the end of the show, we'll kind of get to that, because I really wanna hear from you guys. We do have a Super Chat. There's actually a poll out there as well, 702 votes. Yeah, there is a poll that we put up. USC has a star pal album, Fact or Fiction. 700 votes, 61% say fact factor fiction 700 votes 61% say fact

So yeah, this is the one percent say fact so like we are in the minority with that one. There's perception is reality I don't disagree that I mean like I don't think they have a problem either I agree with you guys for the most part the thing that you know I just want to go back a little bit as being probably the most casual fan on the team I don't know who Horia Masvidal was before he knocked out Ben Askren. Hmm go back a little bit as being probably the most casual fan on the team. I didn't know who Jorge Masvidal was before he knocked out Ben Askren. He never fought for a belt. Right after that Askren fight, you only need 10 seconds, right? You need a knockout and you need a great celebration.

Something that takes you from, I've been here for a long time to the star. And then they created a fake belt. He headlined at MSG. I mean, like became a star. So like anyone can become a star within 15 seconds. And that's the great thing about the UFC, right? Like, you just need one moment, two minutes on the mic, and now all of a sudden,

you're headlining a huge card potentially. Like, they don't have a star problem, they can create a star at any moment in time. All right, what's the super chat? Yeah, so Ethan writes, at the 313 presser, Dana mentioned a wall with up and come hummers they like in the war rooms so they could keep these fighters top of mind

when booking. To me, this shows that they kind of recognize the star issue. I see what you're getting at, Ethan, in the sense that they seem to be identifying. I would imagine that that existed through all time. And if it wasn't written in the war room, because they didn't operate in the exact same office at that time, it was known, right? I think the UFC has always been aware of like, who could potentially be a

guy or girl for us to break out, right? Like, I don't think it was, I don't think maybe it was as solidified as this list that they potentially keep in the war room. But I don't think it was, I don't think maybe it was a solidified as the, as this list that they potentially keep in the war room, but I don't think it's them going, Oh man, we really don't have stars. We need to do this. I think I've kind of ultimately settled on the conclusion that like they don't sweat the idea of if somebody doesn't pan out because they're going to get another shot and another shot and another shot and another shot. And all of a sudden you got a Diego Lopez, you got a Patty Pimblitt and you just come and they just come out of nowhere. And so I don't think this is an acknowledgement of them going like, we need stars. So let's make a list. Yeah.

I agree with you. Casey fields, right. And the writes in the chat, rampage, BJ Tito. I don't know if she's pointing to, or he's pointing to older stars, uh, but like is, is Elia Islam Charles not bigger than them? Like, are they not bigger than them? There's a-

John Jones? Again, the stardom is different, right? At that time, Rampage was like a viral celebrity to the point that he's starring in the 18 movie when they remake it alongside like Bradley Cooper. Like Rampage was a massive star at that time, but is stardom like, I would say an equivalent level of stardom right now might be like can Sean O'Malley call up like Aiden Ross or some of these other influencers

or get on their channel and be on the biggest platform too in the same way that Rampage was in movies like there's and we even see like you know all the influencers that come to the UFC yesterday we had a whole conversation about the Tate brothers and coming to the UFC and we see Theo Vaughn there all the time and obviously Joe Rogan is there. And so we think about like stardom in that sense that like, yeah, Rampage felt bigger than life and he was in on the silver screen and things like that. But like, is Sean O'Malley not like a huge kind of influencer in that space? Does UFC not court those types of people? I don't know. I just feel like stardom is so hard to measure, and especially when you're measuring it against the tools and the platforms that existed back

then to now, they're just so different. Bro, give the people at home a big flex, man. They're trying to grill you in the chat. Give them a big flex. Look at those arms, man. Stop ripping on my boy's arms. Yeah, baby. His biceps and triceps. Look at that definition. Biceps and triceps stay. Come on. Connor's going to get you in the chat, bro, they're cooking. Oh, fuck. All right. He's a busy guy, he's a father of three. Yeah, Jesus Christ. Stop hating on this, man. We're bringing you this. We got content, we got children, we don't have time to get in the gym and pump iron. Please, I beg you, I beg you, be kind to me. Be kind to him. He looks great. Look at that hairline. If anything, look at that hairline.

Hairline's unbelievable, 38? 37, how old are we? 37. 37, look at that hairline. I'm 31, my shit's cooked! I'm done over here! Any other super chats? Yeah, there was one.

Shout out to the pen as well. For Xi Ming, Jordan and I had to look her up because we weren't, I think this already says she's not a star. She's a doctor? She was the casualty of May 19th. Oh yes, yes, yes. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. She recently fought, she was a doctor.

She was like apologetic of knocking out her opponent. Yeah, she's great, she's great. She could be a star. Yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe. I mean, we never know. We don't know what these people. Yeah, so then Matt writes in, tuned in late, the UFC makes it about them

and their struggles and achievements, not so much about the fighters anymore. Yeah. Yes. The UFC is the bigger star. They are the star. They are the platform. They provide the platform to the people, and then they can either capitalize on it or not.

Like it comes with the performances, it comes with the personality, and the platform has never been bigger than it is right now. There's one more. Okay. Okay. I feel like it's harder to make sense. Oh, I'm sorry.

I can barely read this. Give me one second. Well, he figures that out. Now they've gone from cooking you for buys and tries. I'm getting cooked for being an old looking 31 year old. Perfect. It's all good. Yeah, the internet's a positive place. year old. Perfect. It's all good. Yeah, the internet's a positive place.

It's all good, it's all good. They're saying we need to go on TRT. I'm honestly down. That'd be good content. I just don't care. Yeah, yeah, what's up, Frank? Remi Degalsky writes, I feel that it's harder to make more stars

when all of them just keep calling out people like Conor. So it takes the spotlight off of the others. I think there's something to this in the sense that like, as I was saying before, Conor McGregor kind of invented that playbook and then everybody's just copying it and there really hasn't been like an innovation in that since. So I get that. Yeah, I understand that. But again, I don't know.

Stardom is different now. Conor made that playbook at the time that it was primed to work. I don't know that you can do that again now. Connor made that playbook at the time that it was primed to work. I don't know that you can do that again now. And so yes, I think people are kind of like, there needs to be an innovation. Jordan says, I miss the UFC back when Kane, Jones, Jose Alva, GSP, Anderson Silva. To me, that's nostalgia.

Yeah. That's nostalgia. I think there are still some. I loved it too. Probably I loved it more, but it's just not fair to say that stars of today are not. We deep dove, we spent enough time on that topic. Speaking of deep dives, let's get into UFC Vegas 104.

Marvin Vittori. Oh! The card's canceled? What do we got? No, we have the news about Famiya. Okay, tell us more. That you wanted to take away for us. Right, Rick? According to Ariel Hawani, he has slacked us and said that

Famiro officially filed a lawsuit against boxer Ryan Garcia and Golden Boy Promotions for alleged fraudulent inducement, torture, tortious interference and other serious claims. Per the lawsuit, Garcia had an exclusive agreement to fight Rukaiya and Poe and an exhibition match in Japan this yes. Yes. Yes. Yes Yes, despite receiving payment and the promotion being well underway fanmio was deceived into organizing an event which Ryan never intended to participate and Boy promotions actively worked to sabotage this event.

Wow, so he got paid for doing nothing and now he's getting sued for it? That's exactly what it reads like. Wow, that's crazy. Shout out Ryan Garcia. Yeah, I do wonder, I wonder what payment he did receive at that point, because who knows, the fight didn't actually end up happening.

At the time, unless I'm mistaken, you tell me, didn't he say he happening at the time. Unless I'm mistaken, you tell me like, didn't he say he was injured and they were going to reschedule. And so it seems like they're, they're, they're calling cap on the injury part of that and saying like golden boy interfered to, to remove him from that fight.

I mean, it was on shaky ground anyway, the fact that he was suspended at the time and was going to compete in this exhibition, um, is still suspended until April. Um, it was going to compete in this exhibition, it's still suspended until April. It was going to compete in this exhibition, but it's fascinating to see that, Fenmio is, is putting their money behind a lawsuit here. I understand like, why this, why this would make, from their perspective, feel like they got hard done, especially if Ryan says I'm injured and we're going to do this at another time.

And maybe that doesn't ultimately end up happening. So interesting kind of, perspective feel like they got hard done, especially if Ryan says I'm injured and we're gonna do this at another time and maybe that doesn't ultimately end up happening. So interesting kind of development here. He's fighting in May, like let's see if this has any effect. I doubt it will. I imagine this can stay in court, but interesting. Not for nothing. He's probably the biggest star on that Times Square card as well. For sure he is. Yeah. So he stays on that. All right. UFC Apex 104, Marvin Vittori, Roman Delizze rematch, they fought back at UFC 286.

In March of 2023, Marvin Vittori won a decision, 29-28, 30-27 on one of the judges' scorecards. Your excitement for this, and do you think we see a different fight? Five rounds now, Roman Delizze, I believe, has won two straight. He went on the fight, Nasruddin Imavov, and do you think we see a different fight? Five rounds now, Roman Delita I believe has won two straight. He went on the fight, Nasruddin Imovov,

won in a wonky majority decision, but since he has beaten Anthony Smith and Kevin Holland, put a thumping on Kevin Holland and now he gets to rematch against Vittori. Level excitement, like three out of 10? Three. Like it's a fine fight. I'm like, okay, nah, that's not fair. Maybe five, let's call it five. I'll go right down the middle where it's like,

yeah, I think it's going to be decent. I mean, they're two, uh, relatively skilled and high level guys, but like, I don't have a lot of, uh, investment in their story. I don't have a lot of investment in their heat. We've kind of been joking, like highly anticipated, like I don't think anybody was particularly calling for this.

Um, do I think it's going to be different? No, like, I don't know. I don't expect anything much different. Do you? anybody was particularly calling for this. Um, do I think it's going to be different? No. Like, I don't know. I don't expect anything much different. Do you? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, the thing that makes Roman Delizze so dangerous is his finishing capability.

And like, we never really saw that get put on display too much in the first fight. Maybe that happens here in the second one with it going five rounds. But I mean, Marvin Vittori has a block head. Like he is, he is damn near impossible to finish. Roman De Lize has never been finished. I feel like this likely goes to a decision most of the time.

I mean, you said the Roman De Lize ability to finish, but like last finish is? Last fight. He finished Kevin Holland. Oh yeah, you're right. Like he does have finishing capability, but Marvin Vittori is like, he doesn't get finished. The rib injury, I forgot about that one.

Marvin Vittori doesn't get finished, Roman De Liza doesn't get finished. If it goes to a decision, then I like the pressure, I like the volume, I like the potential wrestling from Marvin Vittori, I just like Marvin Vittori's chances across five rounds to outscore Roman Dilizze. Yeah. And that's what we saw in the first one. But I think it's probably close.

I think Roman Dilizze can get a couple of rounds. Yeah. I mean, it's a, it's a good fight, but it does. Roman Dilizze says he's a different fighter from the last time and he's on a two fight winning streak. So maybe, maybe he has changed something. Well, that would be more fascinating to me.

If we do see like a, an improved Dilizze where all of a sudden he's able to stifle Vittori. Actually that that's an outcome that I would be interested in because I think of Vittori is very like meat and potatoes, like kind of middle of the road, but also like tough, like extremely tough. Extremely tough. Good at what he does, which is like putting that pressure and pace on people.

And so if Dilite is able to counter that and show me a wrinkle to his game that's different, that would be a potentially fascinating outcome to me. That's the most interesting version is like Dilite really has like leveled up. He's not a young man in this game though. That's the thing. 36 years old. Like I feel like I know who Dilite is but if he's telling me like he's different and I could actually see that that would be the most interesting outcome. And this would be interesting because this would push him into the top 10. Marvin Vittoria is currently 8 in the division, he's 12. You know, start making an 8. A little late run?

I mean, another Georgian MMA fighter. Get in love, you never know. You never know. A late career resurgence from Roman Delizze. Could he be that star that we've been looking for? You never know, you never know, man. I mean, you never know. I mean, honestly...

UFC Tbilisi? by Roman, the lead say in Moral de Valle. When you mentioned Charles Olivera, I was like, my brain had to like reset for a second. Cause I was like, fuck Charles has not always been a star. Like it really like, it, like my, my brain was like, holy shit.

Remember those, those Charles Olivera fights from like 10 years ago, where you would have never in a million years been like, this guy's going to be a star. And so yeah, I'm like half joking, but like, who knows? Could be.

A co-main event kind of feels similar to the last apex card, the, uh, the Cody Brundage, Julian Marquez, a co-main event, Eliza Zalesky, dos Santos, Chidi and Jaquani just feels like, I know they've been to decisions of late, but both these guys can crack. Both these guys can go to war. I feel like this is one that they're just like, barn burner, let's just make it happen.

That's it. Barn burner. I'm here for it. The last one of these, as you said on the last card, delivered, I'm ready for this one to deliver too. I really like this fight. Alizu is like one of my guys that I really like tune in for. And then how about, I believe it is a tough 31.

How about a little back to back tough 31, real ones, no tough hang. What is this? Showdown, Kurt Hallibur and Cody Gibson fighting back to back. That is tough 31 in a nutshell right there, baby. Okay. It's the McGregor Chandler season.

Okay. I actually watched that and still don't even remember this. Oh, come on, man. Shout out to Cody Gibson. Shout out to Kurt Hallibur. Did either of them even win it? I actually don't think either of them won unless I'm mistaken.

You'd be bracing this to me. Nah, Kurt Hallibah did win. Okay, shout out Kurt Hallibah. Shout out Kurt Hallibah. Cody Gibson definitely did not. He lost the Bracketona, right? Oh, there you go. Lost the Bracketona.

Wow, look at you, 31 deep dive knowledge. Kurt Hallibah takes on Alexander Hernandez, the great ape. I mean I imagine it's it'll be a fine fight. Yeah I mean look it's not a bad fight but at the same time like let's acknowledge the stakes here are not very high. But yeah it's a good fight. DeMont Blackshear is the man Cody Gibson's fighting. I think that could end up being exciting especially if he goes to the ground. DeMont Blackshear has some sick submissions. Sneaky. I mean you know you just have to point to that Twister. Like, dude's got it.

Dude, Twister, I think he got a first round sub last time out. Cody Gibson has lost by submission four different times. Like, I think that one could be exciting. This could be fun, yeah. And then we start getting into the UFC newcomers. Okay. Dira Nurgazey. I was gonna say, don't recognize him.

Taking on Brenton Hebero. Hebero has already fought in the UFC. Nurghize making his debut. 10 and 0. 10 and 0, also repping. It's a great country of Kazakhstan. Did we do any tape study? Do you know anything about him?

I watched his contender series fight. I mean, got knockout power. Brinson Hebero, usually in exciting fights, like has been knocked out before. I think likely is, Nurgizay gets the knockout. I think it'll be exciting. I like it. Welcome a new star.

The last fight on the main card that we're going to talk about, the first fight on the main card though, I was banging the drum in the group chat for this guy, Kevin Villajos. The Jalos Argentinian dude, nasty boxing, nasty striking, going up against some Mochoy who's going to give him a boxing match in my opinion. Argenitian dude, nasty boxing, nasty striking, going up against Sung Woo Choi, who's going to give him a boxing match in my opinion. Think it's going to be exciting. Think there's a very high chance he probably knocks him out

and we can start the Kevin De Geo's hive. All right, we're starting the hype train. Start the army, start the train up, choo choo, put it in the, I mean, I'm telling you, 14 and one, slick boxing, KO power. I actually am very much looking forward to this one. Sungwoo Choi is fun, man. He's gonna put on a show for as long as it lasts.

I can't believe we're looking at Ryan Spann this deep in the prelims at this point. When you say Sungwoo Choi, he is one in four in his last five. Yeah, but he's fun. Yeah, of course. I mean, went out and got starved by Steve Garcia last year. Yeah, Ryan Spann.

He likes to scrap. Ryan Spann just lobbed up there with Waldo Cortez Acosta. That fight goes two ways. Okay, but honestly though, doesn't this usually feel like one that's on a UFC main card? Where it's like a little bit of a name, but then like- It feels like fourth fight down,

you sneak in Ryan Spann versus Bogdan Guskov. Ryan Spann versus Anthony Smith. Like you just sneak that in. This feels like that. Why is this so deep on the card? Probably because he's fighting Walter Cortez Acosta, which means this is either going to be Ryan Spann, guillotine round one or Waldo Cortez Acosta 30-27 decision. Yeah.

It feels like that's the only way that this thing's going to go. Waldo Cortez Acosta, dark horse at heavyweight to be a star? No. No. That's going to be a star? No, no that's gonna be a no. First Dominican UFC champion? Yeah we're gonna say no. Wait is that true? Yeah I guess there's never been a Dominican. Salsa Boy? No we're gonna say no. The Decision Machine at Heavyweight? Chris Fox? I know you're trying to push this I know I know you're on the high in the high but. Frank I know you are as high as anyone can get on them 14 and 3

Korean Su Young-yoo taking on AJ Cunningham go ahead With the breakdown Yeah, so Su Young-yoo is gonna get it done gonna get it done all day long AJ Cunningham stay home good stuff, and then we roll right along to Josiah Musasa taking on the man out of Ecuador Carlos Carlos Ferro. That one should be fun as well. Yeah. I'm not gonna lie, I was teeing something up there.

I saw the little tiny flag next to Carlos Ferro and I thought he was Venezuelan and I was gonna toss the Andy to force her to do a breakdown because she's Venezuelan. And then I clicked on it and it was Ecuador. That's on me. That's on me. I see an arty nut close enough.

Did you see me tossing that up? I was really setting something up there. Fell flat, totally. Colors, huh? And to a point that I thought you were teeming up. As flat as the earth. Oh wow. All right, Frank, you got anything to get off your chest?

There is no Ecuador because there is no equator. Yeah, listen, they're both yellow, blue, and red. One has stars on it. Another has a seal on it. Yeah, it's on me. It's tiny. Also. I'm not wearing my glasses today. It's tiny.

We've got a Andre Lima this deep on the card too. Undefeated Andre Lima. It's a little weird how this card's constructed. And again, as I said. Also find it weird you skipped over San Paechu's versus Stephanie Luciano. No, I was, I wouldn't know we were doing every fight. I just looked at that one.

Luciano Nunez, Priscilla Quechua. No, that's under though. Eunice Dubin versus Carly Judiz. Yes. All right, Iua. No, that's under though. Unisey Dubin versus Carly Judis. Yes. All right, I actually. The early fights. I'm a big Carly Judis fan despite her having no wins in the UFC lost on contender series,

got signed a split decision. Got signed after a loss on contender. Lost to Gabriela Fernandez. I thought she looked great in that fight. I thought she got robbed in that fight. I am a Carly Judis fan, rep in Louisiana. I'm hoping she gets a double here. That fight got fight of the night, great in that fight. I thought she got robbed in that fight. I am a Carly Judis fan, repping Louisiana. I'm hoping she gets a dub here. That fight got fight of the night, the Fernandez fight.

Dude, she's a dog. She's a dog. She's got that Louisiana, that Lafayette, that Cajun in her that just keeps her pushing. She's a massive favorite against the 6-0 fighter in Duban who got a knockout, I believe, on Contender Series, first round knockout. So is everybody on this card from contender series basically?

It's just a contender series card. It's a contender series card. They should honestly make them wear the blue gloves. Yeah. It's just a contender series card. But that's that four o'clock eastern kick at the beautiful UFC apex. Shout out to the apex that keeps this train rolling along. 13 fights for you.

Should be over around 10 p.m. Yeah. Looking forward to the Kevin Villajos fight. Every time I say his last name, I pronounce it wrong. Villajos. V-A-L-L-E-J-O-S. Villajos. That was it.

You got it. That was it. Nailed it. I just can't say it fast. It's almost like- Villajos, Villajos, Villajos. You can do it. Villajos.

Kevin Villajos. There you go. Can't wait for that one. That's pretty much what I'm looking forward to in the main event. All the good, that is the causes, so I can't wait. Ryan Spann, always exciting.

Like last week, this just feels like there's some scraps on here. Like let's just get some scraps over. There'll be some scraps. All right. Now let's go to the Parlay Pals. Yes. Four UFC Apex 104.

I already got Pizzi's pick, which is Kevin Vajajos. Oh, okay. Yeah, so it's good that I went with that, that he went with that, I mean. And I'll throw in the randomizer for the rest of us. Be-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do second Rick will go third. Cool. So I don't know if anyone was paying attention Pasewiyo Yunga's you is going to... You're the expert....is going to deliver us a black Parley Pals week and we're gonna be in the black. Okay so we're gonna win. Why was it so extended? That was weird. I'll go ahead and take it. I'm gonna go to the main event I'm gonna going to go with Roman DeLizze, my brother from Georgia.

But I'm actually going to take a point spread on DK plus 13 and a half. So he could lose 50, 45, 50, 45, 49, 46 and still cover this. I think this goes to a decision. Most of the time, both of them are incredibly tough to finish. Marvin Vittori doesn't really finish people. So I think if someone does get finished, it will be Marvin, you know, barring an injury or anything like that, I think he gets a round

off Marvin Vittori, I like this, minus 450, Roman Lutte plus 13 and a half points. I like it, I like it a lot. Give me Andre Lima, let me have Andre Lima money line. Okay, Andre Lima money line for New York, Rick, I fully expected you to go Josie Ann Nunez. I mean, you are a Priscilla Ketchewa fader. It's half the price, so it would help us more.

What do we add if I do Lima? If you do Lima, let me tell you right now, I got to type this bad boy in. If you do Lima, minus 395, and I should have been entering this as we went along, this is obviously falls directly onto my shoulders. Roman, the lead, say plus 13 and a half. And then who'd you take, Frankie?

Su Yong-Yu? That's correct. Su Yong-Yu. I'm gonna find him on this page. On a funny line, I guess. On this page. There he is, minus 625. And then Kevin Vajajos is who PT Carroll took. This is really taking longer than I was anticipating.

Minus 600, there it is. That gets us to plus 107. Oh, I like it. If you went with Josie Ann Nunez. Yeah, what does that get us to? That is minus 185. That gets us the plus 154. Yeah, just give me Limo.

Let's stick with Limo. All right, so we're gonna go with Limo on that one. Plus 107, and I can tell you this. We are on a nine parlay losing streak. No, we're good. Four and 11. We're good, we're good. Down 1.45 units.

Nah, we're okay. It's tough. We're good. It is certainly tough. And then before Nah, we're okay. It's tough. We're good. It is certainly tough. And then before we get to my picks. Okay, what do we got? Ariel wanted to weigh in with the super chat. That's not a super chat.

Well. How much did he pay? According to my Venmo, 13.99. I like this. Do we throw Roman in there? I can't, because you picked the Roman. The pic is real. It's just an HDAO.

For those who are listening to this beautiful podcast, I guess my Delizze pic was not real. Wow. When he says pic, is he referring to a picture? Yeah, I know. The PIC. There is a lot of ambiguity here. I don't think we did anything wrong.

HDAO. If you did not catch it yesterday, Ariel came out of pick retirement and picked Roma de Lice as the H-Dow, the Hawaiian dog of the week for those that are even more out of the loop yesterday. I was like, maybe throw it in, but. H-Dow featuring great fighters like Robert Whitaker

versus Hamjah and Tamiya. Don't do that to him. I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. We all remember Marlon Chido Vera and Katie Taylor that one fateful weekend in April of 2022. like Robert Whitaker versus Hamjah Tmaia. Oh, don't do that to him. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. We all remember Marlon Chito Vera and Katie Taylor, that one fateful weekend in April of 2022. It was magic. He hit double H-Tow.

Double. It was incredible. It was incredible. I hope that he hits the H-Tow this weekend, supporting my brother from Georgia, Roman Dalita. Yeah, shout out to the H-Tow. Before I get into my picks, got to shout out some people from the big hitters. Okay.

Quickly run through these. First up, Aaron at Salamander503. Four leg parlay plus 6,360. Huffy by KO, Bahamundes Moneyline. Gachey by points, Ankalayev by points. Turns $25 into 1,590.25. Wow. Shout out to Aaron.

Shout out to all those picks, because that is money. That's all on the main card too. Plus 4,664 at Rampa19. He goes, Marion Santos, whoo, by the skin of his teeth. And that's what kicked off the parlay. Bruno Fajeda, Josh Van, Ignacio Balmondes,

Justin Gaethje, Mauricio Huffey, Maga Manon Kaleiw, $25 into $1,191. Shout out to Rampin19, that is truly incredible. We keep rolling along Mitch Stewart. He does a shorter version of what we just mentioned. Plus 1912, Justin Gaethje by points, Magomed Onkaliyev by points, easy peasy, lemon squeezy. We roll along.

Plus 5,314, this is Matt32059748, shout out to him. Matt32059748. He goes Amanda Lemosh, he goes under two and a half in King Green versus Mauricio Huff. He goes Ignacio Bahamondes, he goes Justin Gaethje, he goes Maghameh Uncle I have, and then just lob it up on top there Milwaukee Bucks plus seven and a half because why not? Rix 150 gets back eight thousand eight hundred

and ninety three dollars a good night for Matt 32059748 and I think we have one more oh this hurts I didn't I didn't change the name on this one. I know it's not Matt. 3207-597-48. I mixed up some names here so someone's missing a call. But this man hit a plus 4,754. Josh Vann by points, Lemos by points, Gagey by points, turns three dollars into a hundred forty two dollars and sixty two cents. A lot of people picking winners by method. That's impressive stuff. It's incredible. Shout out to the big hitters as always. You are truly incredible.

You are much smarter than I am because I did not have a good week last week. Lost like six units. I actually forgot the recap. What a funny coincidence. I actually did forget it, but I got torched last week. Got washed out, lost like six units. Now let's do my bets

for this weekend. Only a few of them. Only got four bets for this week, trying to keep it tight. Don't want to risk too much on this card. Start with Sam Page, Hughes on the money line. Luciano, she finished in a draw on Dana White contender series against Alan Carr. Went to the UFC in a rematch. They just rematched it in the UFC. She won that one. Hughes just has way more experience. She has far more UFC fights. She's four and two in her last six. This is not the highest level women's MMA fight.

I'm taking a two to one dog in the girl with more experience. Probably going to the scorecards nine times out of 10. Can get funky, two to one, give me Sam Page. And then the woman you love to fade, Bracilo Quechua. She's gonna have a big height advantage in this one. Both of these girls are on a two fight losing streak. It's almost likely gonna go to a decision as well. It's gonna get sketchy, it's gonna get choppy.

I mean, Jose Ander-Nunez skated by against Ferrezaen, very close fight with that one, similar with the size and everything. I think it's probably gonna be a dog fight. I like Cachoeira, I like Zombie Girl in a dog fight, plus 150. Women. You're taking the dog in the dog fight. Oh, the whole women, I like Zombie Girl in a dog fight plus 150. Women. Taking the dog in the dog fight.

Oh, the whole women's MMA, give me the dog every time. Those are my two singles and then to the parlays, mentioned them, Nergazey, the Yajos, think they both get a knockout in that one. You're loving the Delitze points. I say all that and then Marvitori's gonna sub him or something, but I think it goes to a decision I think the Leeds hit one's around.

I really do, I like it as a parlay piece because I use it again in another parlay. I also take Andre Lima into Mont Blackshire. I think Lima loses at some point, but not in this one in Mont Blackshire, I like him on the ground against Cody Gibson. Those are the picks. UFC Vegas 104.

Get hype. I'm hype, I'm hype. One last thing to do before we get out of here, the pound for pound rankings. So in honor of St. Patrick's Day on Monday, obviously we'll be too late for it. You can see right there, got the Irish flag on me, shout out to storefront over in Derry. St. Patrick's Day is coming up and what do you do on St. Patrick's Day? You wear green. So in honor of that, pound for pound rankings, top greens. Frankie, what's the order on this one?

Let's see. Top greens, best greens. Can I make a suggestion? Suggestion. Let me talk this out with Honor Jordan. I'm gonna go first. Whoa, is that Jordan? I'm listening, I'm ignoring Frankie again.

Wow, Jordan Frank did that there. I feel like Connor always goes last, and I feel like he's very passionate about this one I almost feel like we can I don't know if you want me to set the tone here I don't know if you want me to set that I almost feel like but Jordan you tell me I Don't hate the idea. I mean, maybe we go reverse order for what Frank said, which was Frank Eric. Okay, all right Let's honor Eric Frank Frank how we feel let's be clear. Yeah

Thanks Frank. Let's be clear here. Yeah, no, that's good. Thanks, Frank. Let's be clear here. Top greens. Top greens. Could be a hue. Could be greens. Could be a guy named hue green, or it could be a hue of the color green.

Could be a guy named hue. Not something green. A guy named hue? Yeah, hue green. Hue green, he'd be a green. He'd be a... Could be anything. Just needs to be a green. A green. Needs to be a green. That's what we're seeing. a green. He'd be a green. Could be anything. Just needs to be a green.

A green. Needs to be a green. That's what we're doing. A green. All right, so I'm kicking this thing off. Yeah. Whew, all right. Coming in at number five. Dominant, reached heights that few had reached before them.

I would dare say none and none since. Oh my God. And that's the 1977 North Texas Mean Green. They go 10-1-1 and reach the highest pinnacle in the AP poll at number 16. Don't get invited to a bowl game that disrespect the North Texas Mean Green. That is the mascot. I don't know anything

about them. Look at these boys. That is inspirational right there. That is the mascot. All right. I don't know anything about them. Look at these boys. Oh. That is inspirational right there. That is a football team. 10-1-1. Only lost to Florida State that year. Absolutely incredible. And a little statistic. Wasn't on this team, but a few years prior,

Mean Joe Green. Was on the green? On North Texas, Mean Green. I have to ask a very important question though. Are they referred to as the green? They are the green? On North Texas, mean, green. I have to ask a very important question though. Are they referred to as the green? They are the green or they refer to the mean green? They're the mean green, but they are a green that is mean.

All right, all right, all right. The adjective here is mean, the noun is green. Do you refer, they're called the green. They're not a green mean. They're not something that's mean that is green. They're something that's mean that's green not something that's mean that is green. They are green. They are a green that is mean. All right.

We'll accept. It's pretty simple. Can I just say something that always bangs, always thumps, the old photos. The old team photos from like black and white. Line them up. Always great. Line them up.

Never misses. Get them in the stands. All right, number four, Legend. Legend. Some would say icon. Oh. stands. All right, number four, legend. Legend. Someone say icon. Oh. I remember when, I remember when I remember when I lost my mind.

CeeLo Green coming in at number four, shout out. There's CeeLo Green in green. Legend, legend that guy. Are his arms very short? Very short, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's known for his stubby arms. Yeah, I think that's the 2017 Emmys. There's CeeLo Green in gold.

Either way, legend CeeLo Green. See my arms brother, people are roasting my arms. Yeah, no, no, no, it's not the, it's not the definition. It's the definition. We gotta get you in there. I'll bring in some 25 pound dumbbells and we can just rip them.

Let me tell you a secret. Ain't happenin', don't care. I mean, I wouldn't care either. I mean, my kids, but. Yeah, got other things to worry about. Number three, special week, the Player's Championship going down this week down at TPC Sawgrass.

So in honor of that, arguably the most iconic green in all of golf. Oh, this is very good. The number 17 hole at TPC Sawgrass, the Island Green. Oh yeah, let's take a look. You gotta shoot it right over the water, get on that island, one of the hardest holes in golf.

I mean, look at that thing. Look at it. You got the stands around it. Iconic, iconic hole. The island green. Look at Tiger Woods going for it. Look at that. You got to go over the water straight out to the island.

The island green. Iconic. Do you take a canoe over there or do you just barge around? Motorboat. Just a small motorboat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not a jet ski, like something with the what, too noisy? No, you can't put the caddy on the jet ski.

You're gonna need some sort of dinghy. Number two, stylish. Oh. Sexy. Oh! Unique. Huh? Iconic, and I'm gonna go with a hue of green here.

I'm gonna go with British racing green. It's a dark, it's someone to say forest. That ain't forest. You're wearing it? That's British racing green. This is, this is close, but, but no cigar. It's close. I mean, there it is right there. You can see the RGB.

Put it on your clothes. Wow. Put it on a jacket. God, that's a beautiful green. That is a beautiful green. Put it on your car. Oh my God. Look at the sun hitting it.

Elite green. How did you discover your. Oh my God, look at the sun hitting it. Elite green. How did you discover your love of this specific shade of green? I can't remember. Dates back and tells on. You just all of a sudden came across it and were like, this is it. This is the green. This is a great green.

It's a great green. Wow. I have a shout out to a couple more greens. I mean, there's so many good greens. Green is an elite color. I mean, you see my laptop is in it. My shirt is close to it. I feel like that's close to the green that you were, that was a little darker when I saw it in the clothing.

Number one, a legend, a staple, a must have at any major gathering around the holidays, especially in the South, collard greens. Shout out. Cook them up, flavor them up, get that, get that. Jalapeno vinegar. Oh, get the jalapeno vinegar, Frankie. Get some cornbread with it.

Collard Greens, soul food, comfort food, Thanksgiving dish, whatever you wanna call it. Pig's feet? Collard Green. I'm good on the pig's feet, but yeah, shout out. Collard Greens. That's my five. That's very solid. That's my five top spits.

That's my five top spits work. That's really good work. I want some Collard Greens right now. Top Greens. Who was next, me greens. That's my five top greens. That's really good work. That's the color greens right now. Top greens. Who was next, me or Frankie? It's me. Okay. So going to me, my number five is Force of Nature.

This is a card from Magic the Gathering, 1994, I wanna say, the revision period. This is just a card that's green. This is something that's green though, Frank. I mean For once I'm like you chose a seven point five on the on the scale you can't even find a ten Yeah, they were used so well. There's a good card That's a good answer Frank. I mean it was someone probably was like damn. I love this card so much I should go get it graded and then they went also I do appreciate the magic the gathering reference

Of course because we refer to Those cards as green we're not saying that's a green card. You refer to those cards as green. They're just green Okay, all right now you're in the know however next up on the list is my favorite Greenage It's your favorite, but it's not your number one. No no it's my favorite Greenwich is not in edin glen's not Village this is this is in this just a green itch though It means like a a hill that is green okay, and I've walked up this hill. It's fun It's really steep and then right at the top of it is an observatory

Green if we cut them what It might be at this point. It might be that British racing green. There's the Greenwich Observatory is there. This is actually the home of the prime meridian. Earlier we were talking about Ecuador and equator. So this is the dividing line vertically. And this is where we refer to GMT is actually the Greenwich mean time.

Like how far are we? Shout out, shout out. So this woman on that picture was standing in between the two areas of the prime meridian. Wow, shout out. Yeah, I was wondering what this was in between the two areas of the primary. Wow, shout out. Yeah, I was wondering what this was. I was like, what is this? Alright, facts are pretty good so far.

Shout out to Greenwich. Shout out to Greenwich Connecticut. Alright, coming in at number, I don't even know where we are anymore. Three. Three. Number three, we've got hunter green. Oh, great color. That is my hue of choice. Yeah, it's a good one.

Let's just, look at this. Wow, sick. Put them on some pants. It's a great color color put them on some pants Yeah, and then maybe like a crayon. Yeah sure hunter green make it a shout out I've always liked the hunter green boots like the yellow in the green. Yeah, solid hunter green could also be a name for someone Not a bad. Yeah, I wonder if anyone's ever done that like hunter come here or like please It's hunter green hunter green sounds like a D lineman for somebody Yeah, honestly, it sounds like some guy at a D2 school

that has potential to go pro. Yeah. Number two is what makes the world go round. If it was in fact round, it is the Greenback, which is a nickname for our money. Here's my favorite, the Andrew Jackson $20 bill. The old school Andrew Jackson 20. Definitely has to be old school.

I don't want the stupid water marks all that. What does that say? Fraud liability? Yeah. Where's this from? Whenever I scanned the one that was in my wallet And then the Yahoo copier or scanner came out with this on it. I'm like damn they're on to me I thought maybe uh you actually have this in your wallet right now. Absolutely I haven't seen a bill like this in at least 10 years. No. All right, what's number one I wanna hear? Number one is king of all greens. Yeah!

Arugula. What? I love some arugula. You know what arugula doesn't do? Arugula doesn't get kicked in the temple and fall over. Frank! You throw the shit on some pizza and you're having a good night.

Frank, the layup was there. Wow, dude, wow, the disrespect. Look, I put him on such a high pedestal that when he fell, he shattered. You don't, you don't. No longer King Green, he's Bobby Green. King Green doesn't even make the top five. I want him to come back into the locker room

and I'm just sitting there eating an arugula covered piece of pizza. I'm like wow Bobby. Yeah Robert how you doing man Frank Wow Frank Ilan King green I didn't see it coming. That's insane I did not do our parlay night now you hate the guy that's unreal Frank. There's no hate He's just he's not in favor. He's not a good do a t1000 where he bubbles back together They didn't make the top five greens, that's insane. Wow. All right, Rick.

I respect the hill turn by Frankie. That's insane. All right, we're gonna start at number five. A great green. I would dare say one of the most underrated greens. Okay. Like really underrated green. People sleep on this green.

We're going Seth. Seth Green. Ah, it's a good green. Robot Chicken. Scott Evil in Austin Powers. Kenny Fisher in Can't Hardly Wait. We see that on the screen. We're going Seth. Seth Green. Ah, it's a good green. Robot chicken. Scott Evil in Austin Powers. Kenny Fisher in Can't Hardly Wait, we see that on the right. Also one of the best friends in idle hands.

Like iconic movies from my era, formative movies. Entourage. Buffy in the Vampire Slayer. Entourage doesn't end there. Buffy in the movie Rat Race. Remember the promos for Without a Paddle? My mind is telling me no. And.

Promos, I've watched that movie several times, shout out. Great movie. Freddie Prinze Jr. in there? Yeah, Dax Shepard, maybe it was Freddie Prinze, I'm forgetting now. Nah, nah, I'm tripping, I'm tripping, I'm tripping. Chris Griffin in Family Guy, Robot Chicken Creator. Hell yeah.

You go through the list of credits and there's. He's got some credits on him. A lot of them, like he's got like 300 listings on IMDB, he's done a lot of like little things. Underrated green, like Seth Green, shout out. Legend in the game. How about Seth Green, man? Seth Green.

We're gonna go to another legend. And I feel like this one doesn't need explanation and it maybe needs explanation. We'll see, we'll see. Rachel Green, shout out Rachel Green. Oh, so not a real person. No, not a real person, but a character. Shout out to Rachel Green. Shout out to Rachel Green Oh, so not a real person. No, not a real person, but a character. Shout out to Rachel Green.

Shout out to Rachel Green. You've been trumped, Frankie. Shout out to Rachel Green. Funny, good friend, great character arc in the show. The haircut, I mean, then we can get into the prime Aniston conversation. Doesn't really understand what a break is, though. Yeah, you're doing like Friends references?

I get it, I get it, Friends, break is though. Yeah. You're doing like Friends references. I get it. I get it, Friends, but like. Never seen this show. Rachel Green, I mean. Oh, she was in the Leprechaun, which is a fan of Green. No, that's Jennifer Aniston.

This is Rachel Green. Oh, I forgot this is Rachel Green, I bet. You're doing Jennifer Aniston. I can see how that would be confusing. They look alike. Damn, I gotta get my flashcards back. That's Rachel Green. That's Jennifer Aniston, but yeah, Rachel Green.

All right, number three. You tried to go here, Frank, and you did not succeed. You don't even have the words for this. But I will succeed. It is the Magic the Gathering color green. It is, you tried to do a specific card, you didn't get it. Yeah, okay.

Magic, green. When you play the deck, it's like, oh, I've got three greens I've got five greens. You've got greens. These are the greens It is not the it is not the specific card that you have chosen It is this color in Magic the Gathering known for huge monsters lots of mana a really fun color to play not my Choice at the moment. I'm playing a little bit of a mono red I like I like a white and green

at times. Green in Magic the Gathering. Great color. I dig it. It's a fun one to play. Number two, I also had money. I didn't try to do anything slick with like green backs. Like people call it green. If you got some green, you got some bread, you got some money. I mean, great picture selection by Jordan, but I knew exactly where we wanted to go with this one. I like money, I like money quite a bit and it's number two on my list and here's number one. You're gonna have to come with me a little bit because as we were doing this obviously you know Frank kind of didn't understand the assignment until the very end. You were really on it. I feel like this makes sense but you tell me if you agree. It's the green light.

When you've got the green light, now the concept, right? We're talking both literal and concept. When you say like, it's green, right? When we're talking NBA shooters, it's green. They've got the green. When you're talking about driving on the road. If you're sitting passenger seat and someone that's driving you around and they don't

realize that the light has turned green, you say, Oh, you got the green. You got the green or, or man, I'm late. I really need a green right here. You're, you're on that road and you're thinking you're about to make it. You don't want to see, what don't you want to see? You don't want to see that yellow.

You don't want to see that red. You need a green. That was good. And guess what? That's good. There's nothing better than the freedom of that green That's that green light when you got that whether you're on the basketball court whether you're on the road Whether you're just talking in life and somebody gives you the green to do something

I'm taking it and I'm and I'm enjoying my freedom all right that green all right That's not bad, so we like the green light not the gas light right no no gas I think I run away with this one now come on on I give it to Connor. You know he made it I even I talked to chat GPT about this and it was just as confused as I'll get out it was like Tom Green I'm like yeah, that's a good one But maybe something a little bit more nuanced or like Tom Green I'm like right you're good chat GPT and then it's next to me in the middle of the night Tom Green Seth Green greater Than sign Tom Green just Just saying, Seth Green.

I see Brandon QFG saying Green Ranger, now it's just a ranger that's green. Yeah, it's a complicated assignment. It's a complicated assignment. Yeah, this is easy money for me. Collard Greens, one, British Racing Green, the Island Green, the range that I have, it gives me it easy.

I agree with you. You've done a good job diversifying your greens here's my thing though like 77 North Texas Mean Green. It's a great year for North Texas you kidding me 1977 that's one's gonna live in it. I don't know if it's great. Shout out to Green River the band from Seattle. No but then they're just Green River. Yeah it's just a river that's green. Still don't get it. Jordan chiming in Matthew Liller the third of that triumvirate in Matthew yeah, yeah, great. It's green. I look no no, I know what you're saying, but he's also green to me He has a green light

Cross says British racing green is just a car that's green. You see that's it. No, no the color. It's a hue It's a hue of green. Is it true that if you painted green, it goes faster? See, Frank did that. My magic green color, I selected the green. Frank selected an item that was that magic car color. That's the equivalent. If you had selected the car, yeah, you'd be doing it wrong, but you had selected the color of the car, naturally.

Hank the Tank says green day. It's just a day that's green. It's a day that's green or a bad. I love that I'm not the only one who's confused about that. He says, wake me up when this list ends. Yeah. It's a good exercise. It was a good exercise.

I liked it. All right. Happy St. Patty's Day. Happy St. Patty's Day. Get you green on Monday. We will be there for that. There is a little bit of inside baseball. I talked to Pete C. Carroll and told him

what we were going to do. And he was like, oh, you know, that sounds great. And I was like, is it offensive at all? He's like, no, not at all. He's so quick to go to the offensive thing. But he did want to say, and this is for all of our listeners right now, that if you decide to write St. Patty's Day and you do it with two T's, it's like you're slapping an Irishman right in the face.

He's like, it's gotta be with two D's. I'm like, but PT, isn't it not St. Patrick's? He's like, oh yeah, we're well aware, but it's gotta be the D's. So I just felt like I gotta do him the due diligence of saying that. Is that legit? Okay. He's like, told me. I did not know that.

I've always spelt it with the T's. I did not know that. Yeah, double D. Well, because Patrick and I just, yeah, like it with the T's. I did not know that. Yeah, double D. Well, because Patrick and I just, yeah, like, it was a T. Yeah. I will never disrespect the Irish again. Thank you to PT and you for relaying that message. Same patty with the D's.

Cross says Rachel Green is just a character whose last name is Green, right? Yeah, that's- She's a green. Cross knows ball. She's a green. That's the point. He understood. Yeah, yeah. Yes, well, no, he did it.

No, he's just a guy that wears green. He's not a green. Sour Apple? No, it. No, he's just a guy that wears green. He's not a green. Sour apple, no? No, sour apple could be a color though. There is a huge, like you could select the paint color of sour apple green. Chat, I'm there with you, chat. I think this is actually our best work.

This is our best work. It's noun versus adjective, you see what I'm saying? Someone said green goblin yesterday in the control room. No, no, it's just a goblin that's green. That's a goblin that's green. I feel like this is a green. This was great because this was one of those that me and you were like, nah, that's just a goblin that's green. That's just a goblin that's green. I feel like this is a green. This was great because this was one of those that me and you were like, yeah, we get it,

and then everybody else was like, what the fuck is this? Fuck you guys, I ain't listening to this bullshit. Let's do it anyway. Oh, it was good. Patelo green, that's a shout out. I think I have the picture of that, it's like the dust green, it's like a pan. Stone Cold Steve Austin was a mean green.

He went to North Texas, shout out to Stone Cold. Joe Green mean. Okay, did anybody who attended count? Because at their time that they were there, they were a green. A green, Stone Cold Steve Austin. I mean, shout out. You could've, that would've been slick.

Yeah, look at that, there he is. If you had gone Stone Cold, that would've been very slick. Joe Green, he was, he played at North Texas. So he was a green. He was a green. Who was a green? King Green. Kelly Green the color. Ashley Green. I almost made the list. Draymond Green. I'm going Rachel over Ashley. Spanish. Ashley's a real person. No I know the Cali girl. I'm green. Great green. All right. Leprechauns. No Leprechauns. Damn it. I still. This is a person that wears green.

All right I think that'll do it here for the old boys in the back. You know what green is great? No. The crack green. Oh, I love it. The color of green that they use on the crack, which you can watch right here on this YouTube channel. Tomorrow at 1 p.m. Eastern.

Yeah, I was gonna super chat to you. This is related to what you were just saying. Plus Money MMA writes, what are the odds the UFC does come to New Orleans? Man, I'm gonna say... Is it, are there other options besides New Orleans though? I'm going to assume they go to Louisiana, but like... No, there wouldn't be anywhere else.

If they're going to Louisiana, they're going to the smoothies. Okay, then I'd say pretty high. It seems like Dustin... I'm saying like minus 200 right now. Yeah, it seems like Dustin and the UFC are pretty aligned on the idea of giving him that opportunity. So I would say, yeah, your odds are pretty good right now.

Yeah, I mean, the only other place you could go would be Baton Rouge, but like they're not going to a college campus, I don't think. Then that solves that. If it's only New Orleans, then it'll be New Orleans. But I'm fairly certain they'll go to Louisiana, no matter what. Brookshire Grocery Arena. Shout what. Brookshire Grocery Arena?

Shot at the Brookshire Grocery Arena. Bossier City, yeah, no chance it's New Orleans or bust. All right, then yeah, pretty good. Anything else, Frankie, any other super chats? Because the crack where they're actually talking about New Orleans tomorrow. Yeah, sick. A New Orleans related fighter,

we'll leave it at that for tomorrow's crack. Dustin Poirier or Carly Judis? Ooh. I think it's Carly Judis. You'll leave it at that for tomorrow's crack Dustin Poirier Carly Judy I think it's Carly you tune in and find out Can't wait for that one 1 p.m. Eastern here tomorrow no watch party this weekend And then we're right back on Monday on st. Patrick's Day Achilles jr. Actually writes you Rick Rick Honestly has the worst picks because and then he got shot apparently by the aerial hoani sniper because he didn't finish his sentence Achilles yeah shot apparently by the aerial homani sniper because he didn't finish his sentence. Akilesh, welcome back welcome Scott from PDX says it has been reported that Ben the Bane Davis will be competing on season 41 of the challenge. Please break

down the chances of success. Okay I really I really want to get into this so here's the thing I'm very excited about Ben the Bane being on this I think he has a really good chance of success and here's why. Physically, I actually think there's gonna be some like specimens that it's gonna be hard for him to compete with. They just train full-time for the challenge and he's doing a thousand other things, but from a social game he's gonna be great. He has the gift of Gap. He can talk, he knows how to entertain people, he knows how to politic, and so he's the type of gap. He can talk, he knows how to entertain people, he knows how to politic,

and so he's the type of person that you're going to want on your team and also the type of person that you're going to want to keep in the house to be entertaining because a large part of that reality show that people don't think about is the strategy of sometimes you just want to keep people in the house that you want to spend time in the house with and even though they might be a worse or better competitor, there's a lot of people that you're just like, I can fucking stand this person for the three weeks that we're gonna be filming I gotta get him the fuck out of here I feel like Bane's gonna be good at sticking around because he's gonna be

entertaining and also I think he's just gonna make for some great TV I think it's gonna be some great drama when he's like we see him at the press conferences talking shit to Anderson Silva's son like the dude knows how to sell and the dude knows how to make good entertainment I think he's gonna be fantastic for the show I'm interested to see how far he goes whether he can kind of politic his way to it maybe there's some challenges that he does really really well in but there are also gonna be some dudes that are on like their fifth cycle of juice who could just like bench press them

that it's gonna be hard to compete with physically I've never watched an episode of the challenge I can't wait I've never watched an episode of The Challenge, I can't wait. I'm gonna watch every episode until Ben is eliminated or until he wins. Until he wins. I love his chances, I think he's gonna do really well and I'm excited about it.

Nick Muay Thai sent in a Super Chat and wrote nothing. We appreciate the $2. He actually then said, I paid for a Super Chat and didn't write anything, I'm a noob. If you wanna write something now, we'll say it on the $2. He actually then said, I paid for a super chat and didn't write anything, I'm a noob. If you want to write something now, we'll say it on the way out. Christian Laba says, say Bossier correctly.

And then he says, it's Bosher city. Bossier, Bosher, the mayor of the city. RZA writes, I think the UFC is holding back megafights due to the TV deal, saving star building fights for leverage. Once settled, expect some fighters to rise before we talk about this RZA it says Reza oh Reza okay all right can we put that back up so I can see it again I think USC is holding back mega fights due to the TV deal saving star building

fights for leverage no that would actually be counter to their efforts right if you are the UFC and you are in the midst of negotiations for a mega fight deal, you want your best fights to be happening right now. Like you don't want to tell a network, oh man, wait till we do that John Jones versus Tom Aspin, I'll fight for you. What you want is to show them this is the scope and scale of fight that we can do. So if they do it before the negotiation, that's actually better. That's showing your potential partners

with like what the peak of your success can actually be. So no, that actually wouldn't make sense. They're not holding onto anything. They're waiting. They're going to try to load the deck when they're in their most important and critical spotlight period where everybody's gonna be watching UFC

that is involved in these types of deals and going, holy shit, that was a great event. We can't believe that you were able to pull that off. We want to do business with you. So it would actually probably be exact opposite of that. They're going to try and do everything they possibly can to make big fights right now, which is why an Ilya versus an Islam makes sense, which is why if they can cross the line on John versus Tom makes sense they're not holding anything back. Mcmoytie asked you if you watched any reality TV show other than the

challenge. No, just the challenge. QT Og Good Game writes three years from now we will have some convo about lack of stars. GC give people an Averon warm-up. You know exact resistance to start? they hop on clueless. Good point. You know exact resistance to start, they hop on clueless. He's saying like, let the person who's challenging you have like a warmup run because you're jumping on. Truth be told, like, I've known, like, it doesn't matter.

This guy's a freak. He's a Prime Festival star. It actually doesn't matter because every single time I want to challenge them for longer periods of time, I don't wanna do the minute. I don't want to do the minute. They're the one that does the minute. I'll do five minutes. I'll do 10 minutes.

You can take the warmup within the 10 minutes. Come on, stop with this. Yeah. Plus what was the first part? Well, yes. Ade is the only one that's even been relatively close. Yeah, and that was on your second. Second one of the day.

How about I don't do one before Ade and then we go there? The star combo, yeah, I probably agree with that. I think we will, this combo will inevitably continue to happen and I think what is happening is what I said, which is that what is a star has shifted more so than the idea of like the UFC lack stars. And I think that's okay to kind of reassess

this conversation every so often. What I can say definitively though, is the UFC champions are not boring. I agree. I feel pretty strongly about that. I hate this idea that like everybody's fucking boring. It feels like it's like the cool thing to say. Not everybody's boring.

There's boring fights. Sometimes it doesn't make the best mix, right? Like DDP versus Robert Whitaker was more exciting than DDP versus Shawn Strickland because he got to finish in that. But like Israel Adesanya versus DDP versus Robert Whitaker was more exciting than DDP versus Sean Strickland because he got a finish in that. But like Israel Adesanya versus DDP was more exciting. There's good matchups, there's good things. As a whole, the USC champions are not boring.

Sick of the narrative. Listen to the people in the chat. 24 inch dubs, any NASCAR bets? Jason Carney writes back, any Hendrick driver Larson most likely to win? Oh boy, because we're at Vegas, baby. Yeah, I'm sprinkled all over the board. I got a little action on Larson. He got win. Oh boy. Because we're at Vegas baby. Yeah I'm sprinkled all over the board. I got a little action on Larson. You got a place of bet on Bell as well

and I got some top tens Chris Busher. JT tops us off with Dana emitting Jones versus Aspinall for International Fight Week. Who was most likely to headline Abu Dhabi? Islam versus Deporia, DDP versus Hamza or Pereira versus Ankh? Put that DDP versus Hamzah, all right? Yeah, I think it's DDP versus Hamzah or either, or the Ank Alive, Pereira rematch. I feel like that would make the most sense. Both guys get to take some time off and get back at it. I mean, Ank Alive was on social media

pushing hard to fight in Abu Dhabi. Does anybody actually know where Hamzah could fight and when? Like I still, we continue to talk about this part of the conversation and we continue to bring it up but like I don't think anybody has been able to definitively pin down or state like could Hamsa fight tomorrow in the United States does he have to fight in the middle like I don't have any clarity on this situation and I feel like there's not much out there maybe I'm overlooking some reporting if somebody has it please send it to me. I you know

tweet it at me or something but I really don't have any clarity so I'm just operating under the assumption of like yep in the Middle East Abu Dhabi let's let's sign up Homs out let's just do that so that would be my thought at the moment. Yeah and it's a sick fight. Oh sick fight. Anything else Frank? That was it. That's it. All right. Ryan Walsh says just make sure you'll get St. John's spread tomorrow. All right. We'll do. All right. That'll do it here. For the old boys in the back, make sure you watch The Crack tomorrow at 1 p.m. Eastern. Thanks so much for joining us and the Ariel Wanyan show on St. Patrick's Day Monday. We'll see you then. We are out of here.