The Ariel Helwani Show - Francis Ngannou released, Tom Aspinall and Eddie Hearn unite, BMF legitimacy | The Craic

Episode Date: March 6, 2026

The Craic is back! Petesy Carroll is joined, as always, by Chuck Mindenhall and Ben Fowlkes. To kick things off, the lads dig into the surprise partnership between Tom Aspinall and Eddie Hearn (3:36). One partnership that hasn’t lasted is Francis Ngannou and the PFL. The boys react to the news of Ngannou’s release (32:56). With the White House card fast approaching, the crew then discuss which fights could headline the historic event (47:36). UFC 326 is this weekend too. The trio preview Max Holloway vs. Charles Oliveira and debate the legitimacy of the BMF belt up for grabs (52:01). To close the show, the lads give their Uncrowned UFC 326 picks (01:17:00), and answer your Super Chats (01:19:22).

The crack is back, ladies and gentlemen, and I am excited. I am buzzing. Combat sports is flowing through my veins and out my eyeballs looking at you, because a lot of things have happened. Once again, we have been blessed with a lot of activity for this crack show today. Of course, the crackheads will already know. Tom Aspinall has signed a management deal with Eddie Hearn. They had a press conference earlier today in Battersea.

A few more things have come to life from there, but we have the guts of the story. Of course, Ariel Hwani was on, Boys in the Back yesterday, breaking it all down for everyone, but we are very excited to speak about all this. A lot of dynamic shifts going on in combat sports at the moment. Oh yeah, if that wasn't enough for you, guess who parted ways with the PFL today?

Yeah, now you got it. It's Francis and Gano. Now, the most lucrative free agent in the sport you'd believe, Ariel has said that he expects things to happen very quickly there, and I am excited to hear it. I just hope it doesn't happen in the midst of the show. Well, maybe it'd be better if it happens in the midst of the show, not directly afterwards,

which has happened on a number of weeks in 2026 so far. Still, a lot of things are going to happen this weekend. Dana White is claiming that we will have the White House card tomorrow. And of course, tomorrow, that's quite a significant day for my fans as well, because it's UFC 326, the BMF title, everyone's favorite title. Everyone's favorite title, the BMF title. I cannot wait to sink my teeth into all of these facttoids and news items today. I'm very excited.

And I'm very excited to say that I'm joined by the great Chuck Mendenhall and the amazing Ben folks. And Chuck, we thought we were going to have to double barrel this today, didn't we? We were very worried that a certain big time member of the team could not make it here today. Isn't that true? Yeah, I mean, you use the word gallivanting, usually when you're describing Ben, folks, and it appears he's off gallivanting again. Am I right, Ben? This is what it looks like. This is what galivanting looks like.

And soak it in, you know. I'm over here in this Boston hotel room. Look at the snacks. There they are. Well, damn it. Okay. Ah, there they go. It's very confusing.

Hey, guys, those are free snacks. Those are on the house. Wow. So. It's unusual. When you're big time Ben Folks, you know, you're rolling there. You get some cool ranch Doritos. Don't bother looking for them.

I already ate them. I was going to say, I don't see that in the stash over there. Look, cool ranch Doritos are not lasting long in a room with me. That's a given. But, you know, obviously with everything going on this week, I couldn't miss the crack. Even if I have to call in here with my hotel room setup and everything, you should see the chaos that's happening on this desk just out of the frame. But there's just too much going on that I couldn't let you guys have all the fun talking about it. I got to get in this.

I kind of want to see your setup because I've had to do this from hotel rooms before. and I'm usually stacking like a trash can with some like whatever I can find to put the camera up high enough and it becomes the laptop is resting on the little like metal box that the clean Xbox goes in. So I can't touch it. I can't I can't like reach out and touch it because it's way too shaky. It's an entirely unstable situation. We're walking the Razors edge here today. So if something goes on, this does know what happens. I mean, I don't know if you know, but Dana White and Eddie Herron out log her.

heads these days. And of course we know Dana did the first big move and we celebrated this wild piece of news when he signed Connor Ben to Zufa Boxing, even though he's fighting on the ring card. Even though Sella is paying him. We don't need to get into the details. It feels like Eddie and Tom

to some extent have struck back yesterday. And we get the news. We get this press comments. I will read you some items from the press comments. I'm not going to read the entire press comments because they top-loaded it. with a lot of information about this new talent agency, but now that we've established what that is,

let me just get you to the meat and potatoes of this bad boy. And the new journey begins today across sport and entertainment as matchroom talent agency embarks on a bright new future ahead by joining force with one of the biggest stars in the world as megastar and reigning UFC heavyweight king, Tom Aspinall, is confirmed as the first member to join its world-class talent roster, ranked in the top 10 as one of the best pound-for-pound. MMA fighters in the planet. Aspinel 32 became the first ever Britain to be crowned the UFC heavyweight champion back in 2025.

Aspinall will continue to continue working closely with his existing media and management team as matchroom talent agency supports him with future key services ranging from commercial through to publishing, digital, broadcast and legal. And Eddie Heron is excited to officially kickstart this new matchroom sport venture along. the Salford-born combat fighter. I will disclose. I did not know that Tom Aspin was from Salford. That is news to me. But here he is. Look at all these graphics we're garnishing you here. Oh, they're all walking around, Monaco.

Oh, best of friends in that tax haven that is Monaco. It's all wonderful stuff. Before I bring the boys in, we should probably hear what Dana Wye had to say about this. He was asked at the UFC 326 press conference last night. Someone said, look, how this is going to work, man? I believe it was Oscar Willis. Like, how is this going to work?

You two don't really like each other. Here's what Dana had to say. We don't have any issues with Eddie. They can get whoever they want to represent him. Tito Ortiz used to represent people and we got it done. There you go. He is, they did represent people. I don't think Tito's on the same intellectual plane as Eddie, though.

You know, that just seems like both great talkers. Beating babies. Well, it's also interesting hearing that from Dana White so soon after we, We've heard these court depositions where you have all these people being like, Dana White doesn't do any of this anymore. He doesn't do matchmaking. He doesn't do contract talks, all these people saying like, all right, yeah, he's, when you're having these kinds of talks with the UFC, it's probably Hunter Campbell.

It's probably not Dana White. He hasn't done it in years, not really involved. And so, I don't know, makes it so that you're kind of inclined to believe, yeah, it wouldn't be an issue, not because Dana White is so diplomat. and he can work with you, even if you don't personally get along. Just because he doesn't seem like he's involved in that aspect of the business, at least to hear them tell it under oath. So you hope they'd be telling the truth.

Can we not, like, put that at the very front? Because we wanted to let our minds wander here, Ben, and think about all of the crazy situations. Oh, God damn it. Here we go. Have you followed the order of the list that I said? I have sent you the list, okay? Don't bury the lead like this, okay?

You have. What I'm trying to say is. Okay. I mean, next thing you know, I'm going to start and funny anecdotes, even though that's way down here at the bottom of the list. At the very end in the ad hoc section, okay? Let's not get into the funny anecdotes just yet. But look, all valid points made by Ben, to be completely fair.

But can I ask Chuck? What is your initial reaction to seeing Aspinall and Eddie Heron standing there side by side all lovi-dove? Well, I mean, it seemed like a chess move, right? Like you see something like this and like, okay, well, if we were expecting a response, I don't think anybody was expecting that, but that's the response that we got. Let me ask you guys this. If Zupa Boxing doesn't come in,

swoop in and get Connor Ben, do we see this happen? Does this materialize? Does there a situation where Eddie Hearn is hooking up with Aspinall or was it born of that? You know what I'm saying? Like, that's the question I have.

I feel like, and maybe Ben, you might disagree with this. I feel like Eddie's always had a thing for Tom in terms of he like one thing heron is unbelievable is building UK talent he's done it with kater taylor course from ireland as well but he's really made conor ben the commodity that the zufa boxing have have gone after here like he look at anthony joshua like he is a a huge star in the all over the

world now after the jake paul fight but that is something he can specifically do he's mentioned tom aspen a lot before all this but if i'm being honest and eddie herne actually did speak to iFL afterwards IFL directly asked him like, you know, does Tom feel like a pawn in this? And he said, honestly, he said that to me. Like, am I just a pawn in this game that you're playing with Dana White? And Eddie said, you know, a little bit, a little bit, I'm not going to lie to you.

But he does think that the commercial value is heavily lopsided towards the UFC. And it's also giving him away, right? We heard last week about Frank Smith and Queensbury suing seller for essentially, letting them in the back door and see how contracts are built and stuff like this. Part of me thinks like it's a stroke of genius from Eddie to be his talent advisor. He's saying to IFL, I've seen all these contracts.

I see how they are built. I see everything that they're doing. It kind of feels like a stroke of genius in that sense. But I do believe that Ben signing was definitely the catalyst for Tom and Eddie combining like this. I mean, you mentioned Tom being a little bit of a pawn here, you could argue that Connor Ben was a little bit of a pawn too, but if you're a pawn for $15 million, you probably feel okay about that. You know, you probably feel like that's, that's work,

that can work for me. And, like, especially the way Zufa boxing really rushed to announce, hey, we have signed him and it was only later that we realized you've signed him with somebody else's money to fight on somebody else's fight card. And when they put the poster out, they don't even put your name on it. They don't even put your logo on there. So yeah, that very much seems like they were trying to use Connor Ben as a pawn. And so Eddie Hearn come back and be like, all right, let me see if I can get Tom Asperol as a pawn. And if it works out for Tom Asperol, then you think, okay, you know, maybe it's worth it to take aside in this fight. It is an interesting way for Eddie Hearn to sort of like get in the back door there and be like, let me,

let me take a look at all these contracts. Let me see how you guys do it now that you guys are over here in boxing, seeing how we do it. You know, it is interesting to see how all that plays out. It is also sort of like, the part that I worry a little bit for Tom about is if the UFC and especially Dana White perceives themselves as being at war with Eddie Hearn. And you do this, which is kind of you declaring a side in that war. And it's not the UFC's side. But you're still under contract to the UFC.

And we have seen in a lot of different ways fighters over the years. where you don't want to get in a situation where you spend the prime of your career, the top peak earning period of your career, battling with the UFC. We've seen a bunch of fighters do it, when they're champions or when they're right there, you know, pre or post championship.

They, for some reason, somebody digs in their heels over something and they're fighting with the UFC. And all it really ever does is hurt the fighter and hurt their earnings. Instead of hurting the UFC, They always just sort of feel like, you know, this is why we kind of wanted to make you guys somewhat interchangeable. It's so that if we do have a problem with one of you, the machine rolls on just fine.

That's the part that I kind of worry for Tom is because the UFC probably going to see that as Tom signing with the enemy. Yeah. There's like, you know, if you talk to Andy, which I know that pizza you have and you talk to his camp, it's not, you know, it's not like something that's a secret that there's a disgruntled flavor coming out of this, especially when he's saying things like, you know what, man, I, uh, I really love fighting, but I cannot stand any of the rest of this. And you get a guy who comes in and you kind of went down the list of interest that he'll be, that Eddie Herman will be handling. And one of them was legal, you know, and I'm like, that's always one of these things that you,

you wonder, you know, as you kind of like read the tea leaves early in something like this, where you're like, okay, what is going to happen? Because you do, like what Ben was kind of alluding to, you know, you're a member of the Randy Coutors, who, you know, was a champion at the time and fought the U.S. and I think spent $500,000 with own money trying to put himself in a better situation, get the fight he wanted, get more pay all that stuff, and ends up signing it a three-fight contract in the end. I don't know exactly what Tom Aspinall's current situation is and how it'll, you know, what happens if somehow he gets stripped of his title and, you know, with the ramifications. But it's good to have a business guy on your side who understands kind of the manipulations of the fight game, even within the UFC. I mean, that's a little bit of a wrinkle that Eddie Hearn would bring to the situation.

And I will say this too. Like, he's very good at kind of, you know, what would you say? Rebuilding or resurrecting a fighter who might be down. Right now, Tom Aspinall is maybe like at the lowest in terms of the way people are seeing. Half the people are seeing him is, oh, he's trying to get out of there. You know, you did that piece. Look at the comments that come in and they blame Tom for whatever. Hearn's done a great job of just kind of rebuilding the reputation of like,

Connor Ben, for instance, you know, and even Anthony Joshua, remember, he's kind of, he caught, he kind of kept him, you know, above the standard, like people perceived him the way Eddie did after a while, you know, and I think that that's an important part of this, too. But it's fascinating from so many angles, just given all of this, right? Like, now he's going to try to dip his toe into UFC dealings into, you know, the contracts there and everything else. What that means, ultimately, we may not find out for a while, but it is fun to think about. Yeah, and Here's another aspect, and I apologize in advance, but also not really if I'm skipping ahead on the itinerary here. It's nothing sacred anymore.

We jump all over this thing. But, okay, so you can imagine a situation already the way things were headed with Tom kind of sidelined, you know, had the double eye surgery, still in recovery mode from that. No imminent return seems at all near possible right now. And so the UFC and looking to put together this White House car and might be in a situation of, hey, it'd be nice to have a heavyweight title that we could throw on there,

a couple guys that might be able to fight for something like that. And then you might be in a situation where are you thinking about an interim belt or are you thinking about stripping the champion because you're going, hey, if he's out for a long time, take the belt off of him. And he would have just had to kind of sit there and take it.

And people would say, well, what are you going to do, man? If you can't see and you can't fight, How long can you sit on the title? If it happens right now, after he's just announced, I have signed with Eddie Hearn, it's hard to then turn around and strip the title from him without it looking at least a little bit retaliatory, you know, for the UFC. And they might have already been planning to do it. They might have already had like an idea of how they want to approach that situation.

And this just throws a wrinkle in it. But at least now you kind of have a visible vocal advocate who can speak up for you and at least make the case. hey, did the UFC just take the heavyweight title away from the heavyweight champion because they don't like his manager basically. Yeah, I was going to ask Pizzi specifically because you know Andy, right? And like Tom has had a very untraditional, you know, career to this point because he uses his dad for his business side of things too, which is a very difficult thing to do and to navigate. But is this necessary almost like the kind of complex waters that he finds himself in, uh, in terms of. of maybe what's to happen. Do you think he needs

some kind of professional representation this way? You know what I mean? Like even if he is a pawn in this, but do you think that that was just a necessary move or an inevitable move? I don't kind of imagine Andy not being involved still in negotiation process. Like he has done a really great job for Tom.

You know, I was around there. I saw how he's living. It's rare for an MMA fighter to have a kind of life like that, as we know from court for very long. But he is, of course, the champion of the world. This is what we expect. people to have to some degree. I just think,

I really believe Andy would still be involved, but I think having matchroom there with him, and whether that means Eddie or not, I'd imagine it will mean Eddie based on what he's been saying so far. But as Ben said earlier on, it might not be Dana he's talking to because as we learned from the hearings, it's all Hunter now. But I do feel as though,

especially in terms of that legal thing you brought up, I think that's very interesting. And especially with all this talk of, stripping and vacation. This is me just pawing the sky kind of just trying to think my way around this. Like, Tom's a champion. There's obviously a championship clause

there and everything like that. What happens if they did decide to hit the nuclear option and say, oh, we are no longer champion? Does the championship clause still apply then? Like, does he have those extra fights tagged on that we used to always see back in the day with these different fights? I think there's a lot of things that could happen. But I will say, I just wanted to bring this up. And I should say that this is before the announcement came out,

this Pierce Morgan interview with Dana, what he happened. But I did notice, and again, before this news of Matchroom, Bro, I did notice a change in tone from Dana pertaining to Tom Aspinall. It's almost like he's falling over himself.

To be like, he is the champion, he is the champion. He obviously, I'll let the video speak for itself. Tom Aspinall, he was your heavyweight champion. He's recovering for double eye surgery.

He is my heavyweight champion. What is the situation with Tom? Yeah, the company has talked to him. I haven't talked to him. And Tom and I obviously need to talk. You know, he came out recently or his dad too saying that, you know, they felt like I was, I don't know how they said it, but that I had sort of shit on him and the way that I had spoke about, you know, his eye injury, which was absolutely positively not the case.

Tom Aspinall is a guy that I respect. He's been great, you know, to work with, you know, never once that I question his interest. or speak negatively about it. I said, I think he's okay and I think he's going to be good. And they came out and said, no, that's not the case. But he said, I haven't even talked today and I don't know why he would say that. But obviously, my medical team is talking to him and that was what I had thought. And they thought that I had knocked him in some way, which I absolutely positively didn't and wouldn't.

I like him very much and respect him. I've never had a problem with Tom Aspinall. Do you think he'll fight again? I do. Is that from conversations his team have had with him? your team? Well, you know, he's still dealing with whatever's going on with his eyes, you know, and obviously over the last 30 years of being in this business, I've seen, you know, injuries that I questioned whether guys would come back from and they always have, including

eye pox, who knows? But if you ask me sitting right here right now, do I think Tom Aspinall will compete again? I would say yes. Is it fair to say that he's changed his tune a bit there, boys? Yeah. I mean, you I mean, the part that's not surprising, I guess, is Dana White will get a little revisionist history, especially being like, oh, people are saying that I should on Tom or question the eye injury, and that's absolutely not true. I'm going to redo the quote, the quote from Dana White, right after this whole thing happened. I can't make people fight. And you definitely can't make somebody continue if they feel they've been injured. Only Tom knows what happened.

Could he see? Couldn't he see? Could he continue? Only he knows that. I mean, you're not exactly really supporting the guy. Like, especially when you started with, I can't make people fight. That does suggest that you thought he could have fought through that, that you thought he made a decision to stop rather than being forced to stop

by the fact that he couldn't see and his eyes were so messed up. He needed surgery on both eyes. You need both eyes. And so, like for him to go back. now and be like, it's absolutely not true that I said anything about it. It's like, you did, though. You kind of did. And maybe he thinks like, that he didn't mean it like that saying, I can't make the guy fight. Sounds like you kind of did mean it like that. Maybe once you see the severity of it later, you kind of want to change your tune on it a little bit. I was interested where he was

just like, well, hey, my team, my medical team has been talking to the guy. Because Pizzi, when I was reading your story, I didn't get the sense that there was much conversation at all between anybody on team Aspinall and anybody on team UFC going back. The impression I was given when I was there, well, I was told directly, like, the UFC kept saying things like, let us know if you need anything.

And they're like, well, we're seeing a doctor. Like, we're trying to figure out when we're going to have surgery. And then when I was there, I believe it was a Tuesday I was there. I asked Andy, I was out down the gym with Andy for a bit. And he was like, I just told them on Friday. Like, he's having this double eye surgery on Tuesday pretty much. you know like that's that's the way it's kind of going in terms of whether they've been feeding back medical documents and stuff like that i think they're aware of the situation he's dealing with um i just think it's interesting that it's like this change of tune or not maybe i should talk to him like one thing that i know for sure is like if heron had this happen to one of his guys he's he's not leaving the hospital he's he's speaking to the media as much as he can to express how bad the situation is.

I just feel it's very interesting that suddenly he wanted to talk to him. And again, this was before the matchroom news broke. Like, I feel like that almost suggests that he wanted to rework something. He wanted to make something happen. Like he was like, okay, let's correct the course here a little bit. I need to speak to Tom. We're going to sort this out. But now I'm like, I see him talking at the press conference.

He's like, I have no problem talking with these guys. I think he's playing it great, by the way. I think if he came out and he was like, well, fuck this and fuck this. and fuck Tom, blah, blah, blah. I think that would go very badly. I personally like the way he's playing this. Like, yeah, come on. Yeah, it's always one of the same show like,

how's he going to respond? And so he responds with, oh, what are he talking about Eddie? No, come on. We like Eddie. M's like, hey, we dealt with Tito. Come on, for Christ, you know, it's one of those. It's like, it's actually the right way to do it. Because if he's all pissed off, right?

Like, it feels like you're giving in to something. If that was the counter move, then you're giving into it. kind of gave that to him with the Ben thing, right? Like, Ben, he was so candid in that interview in his hotel room. He was like, you broke my heart. I'm devastated. I'm absolutely devastated by this. How do you think he really feels, Ben?

Dana. You know, it's, I think that Dana can tell himself, I think he can talk himself into a lot of different things. Like, he can, when he says something like, hey, we never said, I never said anything about Tom. I never questioned that injury. I think he can get to a point where he believes that now. Because it's easy to see now, when the guy's been out for so long, he have to had surgery. It's easy to now see the severity of it. In the immediate aftermath of those kind of fights, the same situation.

Remember when GSP kind of sort of retired in the cage after the Johnny Hendricks fight announced he was stepping away? I was at that one, and Dana White showed up at the press conference afterwards. So mad. Live it. his head changed color. He was yelling so much. And people went, okay, wait, did you talk to George and get a sense of what's going on with him? Why he wants to step away?

And Dana said, no, haven't talked to him at all. Just heard what you guys all heard out there. And you kind of went, don't you think maybe you should before you come in here and just call him all sorts of names and yell about him all this time? Maybe isn't it worth a conversation? And then he did have a conversation with him later and came back and was like, okay, it's not that big a to it's going to be okay. And we're kind of like, see, this is what you could have done before. But I think he can kind of like reverse engineer his way to that sort of a position really and then feel like I never said anything. I was always on the guy's side.

I also think that, you know, there's enough different pieces at play here that he might feel like you don't know how all the knuckle balls are going to break just yet. so it's better to be somewhere in the middle. With all the, like this, right this second, right? Like you've got all these heavyweights that are basically tied to each other through like the lineage of the, you know, the division and they scatter. But like you get Francis and Gano, right, who leaves the first big hole by leaving the UFC, John Jones, and then he comes in and he doesn't fight Aspinall.

And so you get none of the fights. Doesn't it, I mean, it just seems like that division specifically, when they get to the top have this kind of like tough deal like it becomes a problem for the UFC to deal with them you know and I was going to add like in general like when you look at like in Ghanu for instance

and we're talking about Couture do you think that like essentially do you foresee I guess that there's going to be a problem does this end badly because once it becomes on like one it already seemed like it was on that course anyway but like with Aspinall and just kind of like I'd rather be boxing type of attitude and now you've got to guy who's a boxing promoter representing you, does it just seem like we're destined to have major problems sooner rather than later?

Yeah, I mean, the big thing hanging over all of this kind of is the White House card, what we're going to do, if we're going to try to come up with a heavyweight fight for that featuring John Jones and Alex Pereira, most likely, what do you do there? Because if you have plans for that that involves some version of a UFC heavyweight title, then it can kind of throw everything else into some sort of temporary chaos, especially because if it involved John Jones at all, that's a guy who has already just been retired,

already shown you he will take off that heavyweight title and walk away from it. So what does that do? The other variable in all this is that, as a whole, heavyweight right now is garbage. Outside of like the top three so names, you know, you got to, It's been like that for a while where you've had basically two divisions,

where you've had a division where there's a couple of few guys at the very top and then everybody else. And it's very hard for the people who are in the everybody else category to bridge that gap and go into being the elite guys. And right now you look at heavyweight and, you know, you're firing guys who just look disappointing. Meanwhile, some other guys can lose a whole bunch of fights, stay in the rankings.

There's just not a whole lot that seems like, like it doesn't seem like it's a division. that has a whole lot of talent coming up right now. And so when you already have this sort of like potential for chaos at the top, and then you throw in that there's nothing else really to do if you lose one or two of these guys from the title picture for some reason, it maybe makes those guys feel like they have a stronger negotiating position. He has the box clever, I feel, you know, with this situation because the thing that

Eddie does that know what our manager does is he's in front of every camera in the world all the time. Like you go on to YouTube, you type Eddie Aaron's name in any day he's done an interview with someone. And it's a massive headline. Like he's not just going through the motions.

He is giving these people news all the time. I guess like, if they, right, so the options here seem to be like vacate the title, strip them off the title. I even see people saying cut Tom Aspinall. Or just leave them. it as it is. I think even if it's a vacate situation, Eddie's going to be everywhere, dragging the

UFC at every boxing event he's at. I think it pressures them in a different way. I think cutting them would be crazy because obviously Netflix are out there. All these other guys can suddenly have a bounty on their hands with Aspinol as a free agent. Chuck, what? Imagine all of a sudden you can get in Ganu and. Exactly. Exactly. But all outside of the Osses that would be ridiculous. What would you say is going to happen here? Things just say the same. and they go ahead and do what they want for an interim at the White House? Or what would be your good feeling? Well, I feel, I mean, we'll know, I guess,

in less than, you know, 36 hours or so what the White House plans are. My feeling is that they're going to do John Jones, right? Like, this is what the tea leaves have produced. And I think that also, like, you get, you see Alex Pereira taking the actions to be in that fight. So I, you could make that fight without anything, any real stake to it, right?

Because it's even from John Jones' perspective, it's like, hey, you know, I'm all about my legacy at this point. That's why I don't want to fight Aspinall. So why not? Just do it that way. But I don't get the sense that that's how they want to roll. They want a five round something attached to it. That's why there's a BMF title this weekend, right? Like, they want something

attached to this. And in that case, I would guess that it's going to be for the interim title. But as Ben said, this is so complicated. I don't ever remember a situation that's quite this complicated because do they have assurances through this whole negotiation process with John Jones and retrusting of him and stuff like that, that he will stick around and defend the belt if he wins it or not defend the belt but unify the title this time?

Because that's the only way I would dangle that if I'm from the UFC's perspective. So it's a complicated situation, but I can't imagine if he's actually fighting Alex Pereira. And if Pereira too going up, you know, in wait to do this, it feels like there has to be a title attached to that. Yeah, but I mean, I could see if you're especially trying to create this big special thing at the White House, do you want to have that little interim word sticking out there? Maybe they figure, hey, we're playing to a general audience here that doesn't really think too much about those words.

If they can hear the words, heavyweight championship of the world, they won't hear any other. And so it doesn't matter. We can throw the interim thing in there. We could put a little asterisk next to it. And then you look down. I'm going to hang up and listen for Eddie's response after that. You can imagine I'm doing something like that. But also you could see how, you know, you're trying to put on this big show.

You wanted to mean everything it can possibly mean. You would want to be able to just go out there and say this is the heavyweight championship of the world. You know, also like Chad's show on the common event this weekend where he just suggested that what would be a Donald Trump title on the line. That's a put. that's what I was going to say, baby, you introduced the title, right? The All-American, you know, like, title or whatever. Yeah, I mean, somebody, like, somebody wrote into our live chat to be like, okay, look, all you got to do is get out something called the President's Cup, heavyweight presidents cup, middleweight presidents cup, all this, everybody can go home with the cup. All of these can officially be some kind of title fights.

I mean, I wouldn't think that that's completely out of the question. I would be cool. Old McCup, yes. One one, right, lads. Just a little bit of fun one. If they live streamed Eddie Heron, negotiating with the UFC, be it Hunter Campbell or Dana White,

they live streamed it, and they were in the same room. It's not a Zoom call. They're in the same room. How much money would you be willing to pay to watch that? Because let me tell you, the pay-per-view price here, it's about 30 quid usually.

I'd pay, I'd pay 200 quid to watch that. Honestly, I would watch 200-year-all put down the table. I mean, we've been dying. We've been dying to eavesdrop on these conversations. Yeah, that's what I was saying is I would pay to listen to kind of anybody, almost any. I mean, I think you'd be disappointed with a lot of them. A lot of these managers, you'd hear what they go in there with and the degree to which they are not willing to stand up for their clients. And I think that it would be disappointing.

But, yeah, I would definitely just want to hear how that conversation goes. Let's do another one of those Mick Maynard. Yeah, we already had it on this show the way it plays out. You know what I mean? You brought it to life. I still get a little teary I thinking about Ben's performance that night. That was good.

Yeah, I mean, no, you got to give me more warning before I do one of those because I got to get in character. I got to find the emotional center of the character. Speaking of the negotiations, boys, we got a little bit of breaking news today, and the one and only, Ariel Hwani, gave us the lowdown on Francis Nganoo, becoming a free agent.

Francis Ngano and the PFL have parted ways. So Francis and Gano is no longer a PFL fighter. He is gone. and he is free to sign with anyone as of right this moment. Obviously, this is a huge story. He was a massive signing for them back in 23 and only fought once. Now, when he signed with them, you may recall, it was first the signing. It was the signing that came out in May of 23.

But then he announced afterwards, later that summer, like two months later, that he was going to fight Tyson Fury. So he never actually fought for them until October of 2020. He had one fight left on his deal. It was either get that one fight in or the term of the contract expiring. He told us that very recently. So that was coming up in the next few months. And so both sides just decided to walk away.

Francis Ngano just doesn't fit who the PFL is in 2026. I think the narrative might be like, oh, this was a mistake. Well, mistake for who? Was it a mistake for Francis? No. Francis got paid more for that fight against Hennon-Fera. One fight versus his last fight against Cyril was probably like 5x, if not more. Plus, there was no exclusivity attached to us.

He got paid a hell of a lot to fight Tyson Fury. He got paid a hell of a lot to fight Anthony Joshua. And he got paid a hell of a lot to fight Penne and Beheada. I suspect we'll be hearing about Francis' next move in short order. I see some people speculating that he's going to sign with Eddie Hearn. I don't think that's the case. I think we'll find out what his next move is. And I think that the timing of this announcement was, you know, smart on the PFOs part in the sense of like you want to get ahead of the story, so to speak.

We'll find out. Will we, Ariel? Come on. Yeah, we'll find out. I feel like it's going to break while we're on the show. It could absolutely. But let me see. Here's the thing, right?

He left the U.S. He made a shit ton of money. Like, I know people are looking like, oh, Francis, you know, he didn't deliver BFL. And that might be true. But he delivered for himself. He made a lot of fucking money. And that's the name of the game here. Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua.

he had the fight with Hanan Ferrer. But I guess, Chuck, is this an L for PFO? I mean, it looks like one in the end because he fought in what, three years, almost three years. He fought three minutes and change in a single round. What a three minutes though? What's that? Yeah, what a three minutes they were, though, you know, it's like, I was figuring it up because I did a column today. Like, if you kind of go off of the rough estimates of what he made for that fight, it was $47,000 per second he spent in the PFL cage, which is not bad work if you can get that.

So I think that from a perspective of, I think from a perspective of a fan, though, right? Like from a perspective of, of, you know, in Ghana, who was like, you know what, with the UFC, I had no freedom. He goes over to PFL and he has an ultimate freedom, essentially, because he went and he boxed for, you know, easily eight figures on these, on these fights, huge fights. And obviously, like, he really earned the second one by showing up for the first one and almost shocking the world against Tyson Fury. you got it we all we did this many times where you're like you give him his flowers because man that was just just an incredible thing he became a part of the imagination of the boxing world at that point in time too just way above and beyond what we thought comes back and he fights that fight for pfl and now for 18 months or whatever it is he's just been gone and like now is just the clock ticks away and there's no francis and gone i think from a fan's perspective it's anticlimatic if you were hoping that he would perform like one fight in three years and like that was just the clock ticks away and there's no francis gano i think from a fan's perspective it's anticlimatic if you were hoping that he would perform with like one fight in three years for a guy that we, you know, when he's sent off, you know, you're still hoping to see more of him because he's so vital. In fact, we're calling him, and I don't even know if you could, you could still argue this, that he's the best heavyweight in the world, right? Like, so for, yeah, you could make that argument, even though he's 39 at this point in time, but like, that's where he left off.

And I think that it's certainly fair for the fans themselves to be like, man, this sucks. Now, is it, is it his fault? I know Aunt Evans is out there somewhere right now. I told you guys, man. Aunt Evans is out there. He should have come on the show because from his perspective, this is a dude who's impossible to do business with, just as Dana White has said basically that he's very hard to get in that cage.

And I'm like, okay, you know, the truth of the matter is, if you want to take that lens to it, you want to look through that lens, like, okay, you could make that case probably because otherwise we would have seen him at some point, right? But it wasn't just that. It was like, you know, there were huge promises that felt like they were just left impending for this whole thing where he's like, you know, my opponents are, We got to guarantee that they're getting $2 million to get in there against me.

And, you know, he's going to be like this big ambassador of Africa. I didn't really feel like that. No. That took like. It wasn't the South Africa event. He wasn't even at the one that happened down in South Africa. Like his one fight happened in Saudi Arabia. It just felt like a lot of what I think was promised when this deal was signed in

2023 didn't really become the case. The greatest things that happened were all in his favor. He had the freedom to go make a ton of money in the boxering. and he kind of wowed the fight world in that way. But if you take that out of it, just about anything else, especially from the MMA perspective, it left a lot to be desired.

Yeah, I mean, the other part of it, though, is who in the PFL were you dying to see him fight? I mean, that was a huge part of it, man. I mean, there was nobody. If I start reading the names from the PFL heavyweight rankings, you were going to accuse me of making them up. And you may not even be able to pronounce them because you've never heard them pronounce.

I'm still, right. But it, yeah. Slim Tribylsey. Abraham Babli, is that who we wanted to see him fight? Like, we don't, we don't know these people. Okay. I wouldn't say lutechew, but light blue. But, you know, Vadim Nemcoff is like the top guy over there.

Was anybody out there being like, we have got to see Francis and Gano and Vadim, like, nobody was, nobody was doing that. That's part of the disappointment, though, is because you thought, oh, well, they put a $2 million tag, right, on whoever's going to. to face. Remember pizza when we were doing the ringer MMA show? We're like, you're going to have guys lining up. Like maybe Derek Lewis when he was becoming afraid. Instead, he was like, no, no, no, no, I just take the UFC again. He didn't even entertain it. Which like when they fought the first time, they also did not entertain.

Oh my God. That was one of the worst. Sorry. One of the worst fights ever, man. But the queue never happened, right? So I feel like it's one of those things that it was part of the anti-climax was just that they weren't able to sign anybody. They never brought in that piece that you're like, okay, now we're talking.

You know, I thought maybe a RICO would show up there or something. It just never happened. Well, but now you're going to think if Francis Ngano is a free agent right around the time Jake Paul and MVP are putting together an MMA car to go over there on Netflix. Wait. What are you suggesting? Do some business with the big fella. I don't even care who you. get, I mean, if you, if you really want that to be a thing, right?

You really want, fucking get one of these guys that we were like, oh, I forgot he was alive, you know? I'll watch him fight Butterbean at this point. I don't, you know, like, but he looks like he's ready to go to me, Butterbean. That DDP yoga seems to be a life changer. I've seen it. The, the thing is, if you don't go and at least try to get Fred Sin got or something like that, then you're kind of telling us like, well, We want to spend some money and be somewhat of an attraction in this world,

but we're not trying to break the bank and swing for the fences here. And yet, that is exactly what we were saying about these Netflix combat sports cards just like a week or two ago was they don't seem interested in hidden singles. They seem only interested in big, fuck-off tent pole events. And if you got Francis Ngano versus someone, then suddenly that goes from just being like, sort of like novelty attraction with Ronda Rousey and Gina Carrano to being

like, okay, this is super legit MMA night that you have to tune in for. I was just talked about all of this in this column I wrote because I'm like, if you add him in right, like, and Nekisa Baderian had teased on whatever that reality show that they're running about

MVP, like, if we get that commain, you know, if we put that Coal Main together, this thing's going to be ridiculous. And I was like, who could it be other than maybe like a Francis and Gano? And you got to remember too this is such an untraditional model that they're running you mentioned butterbee it's almost like they can anybody who's 60 years old and less uh you know or or down that you know or younger is eligible for this as long as they fit the kind of billing that netflix is kind of you know what they've

been doing it really could be anybody um it doesn't have to necessarily be some you know they don't have to like hey jelton almeda before you you know it doesn't have to be something like that they could they could find something else right like to plug in there but having in Ganu on that card would be it would be substantial wouldn't quite be like the Amanda Serrano balancing out the ledger with Jake Paul and

Tyson right but it would be something that adds a vital piece of still that's still very vital in the MMA world right now and considered by some at least the best heavyweight in the world right like you're still putting him while he's holding that man's leg you're still putting him on the card Ben I got a question for you

war is a dirty game and right now Dana White is fighting a war on two fronts as far as I'm concerned. The MMA side, not as much, but on the boxing side, obviously, we're hearing. We have heard that Dana White has absolutely no interest in resigning Francis and Gannon. He is not a good guy to work with as we heard earlier on,

but if he knew that this event, this Netflix event, the one that is challenging him for the most viewed MMA event of the year, and of course with the White House happening, which we will speak about soon. Don't worry. We already kind of did. But anyway, if he knew that Netflix were going to put him on this card

and he could actually enter the negotiation here and try and pull Francis back, do you think he'd do it? You know, there's a part of me that says yes, but then I hear Ronda Rousey's voice in my head saying, the UFC is not interested in making the biggest fights right now. They're interested in making the most cost-effective fights. And one thing I feel confident of is if Francis Ngano does fight in MMA next, it will not be cost effective for whoever gets it. It's going to cost them a lot of money and they may not make all that money back on that effect.

So I think that, and honestly, I think that piece would be more likely to be the obstacle than just personal animosity between Dana White and Francis and Gunner. Because especially it is, Dana White shouldn't go out here and say, we don't want to sign this guy because he's not a good guy and we don't want to be in business with people like that because you are then asking us to look at the rest of the roster, people you do want to be in business with and say, so you're saying these are all good guys?

Because that's not the business you're in. You're in the business of putting good fighters into exciting fights that people want to see. You are not in the good guy business. So don't pretend that you are. But I think that that piece would be, way more easily overcome on both sides than the money piece. Because especially you can't keep them down on the farm after they fought toss Tyson

Fury for millions and millions of dollars. They're not going to show back up and be like, all right, give me 150K and some of that Venom sponsor money and I'll be happy and ready to go. They're not doing that. He's going to ask for a ton of money. And so I don't think that the UFC looks at their own business model. I also don't think that they're worried enough about. about competitors at this point to go,

all right, we got to do this in order to stop them from getting too big and kind of strangle them in the crib. I don't think that they see that as a concern at all. Can you imagine, though? Can you imagine if this is what the UFC rolled out? Like, they're like, okay, we're going to announce their cart. DeGrancis and Ghanu. What's that?

Yeah. I mean, honestly, so of the expectations or the want, right, of like the big announcement, that would be the only thing that they could possibly do that's outside the range of what we can currently see, right? Like, that would blow people's minds because after all of this of saying, like, they won't do it for all the reasons you just outlined, Ben, I mean, like, that would be like an incredible announcement if they, if they somehow did that.

Remember incredible announcements? Oh, my God. What a time it was. No, no, I don't have any fear right now. Oh, I thought you were going to read something. I guess I did get one of those messages. They tend to happen. Make sure there's no news, man.

We cannot go off script here. I'm sorry. I don't want, we've gotten a lot of. A lot of announcements about announcement. I know. I saw you. No event in history, in Combat Sports history, has ever had more announcements about when we're going to make the announcement for the announcement. We're announcing that the fights will be announced on this later day.

Like it's just, it's endless. I almost wonder, when we finally do get the announcement of this White House car, when we finally hear, here are the fights that are on it, the whole thing is set, are we going to feel like a hollowness in the core of our beings because we'll be like, now what? Now what are we supposed to wait up for? What are we looking forward to? What do we have in our lives anymore? Like we've been built around this thing for so long, just speculating months and months of

this when you finally do know we're going to, I think we're going to feel a little bit of a sadness and being like, oh, okay. Well, it's over now. To move on. Tomorrow you got to put your, you got to put your pants on and do it again, Ben, no matter what. You got to stay strong through this. No, but I was just saying, do you remember how visceral the reaction was to people being like, well, you kind of said UFC 300 was going to be amazing. Then you did, he had his black and white on this video and everything like, look at this asshole.

This media scumbagged said that I couldn't deliver the greatest card of all time. You're an idiot. You know what I'm like? Well, correction. You were on there as well. Chuck, you were there. Your boy. Did you get on that way?

Did you get the black boy treatment that time? You need to aim. I don't think I did. I don't think so. I should have kept you going there. You were going right towards that, that media event. Say something crazy, man. Just say some shit.

But we deal with some breaking news, actually. That's, um, we've lost a fight in this. Oh. We've lost a fight. It's Jung-un-Lee. He is not going to fight Gaston, Bolanos. I'm sorry, Ben. I know I should have said this year.

Should have sent you a text message beforehand. It's big news. He is off the card. Um, that is the breaking news, lads. You okay, Chuck? I just knew. I'm just kidding Come on

Do we know what What is this going to happen Like when is this way house It's going to be announced During this broadcast Is that what we flound Or is he going to do it

At the post for your press comments The CBS portion, right? Gotta be Or will he just do it Presser and be like Read it off a phone Yeah so we got the fight three I swear to God

If he does that I'm gonna Oh what do we got Oh right I'm flying to Vegas If he does that That you can't Don't do this

Like it's another one of these Instagram announcements that where you feel like you aren't even interested in it. You got to make a big deal out of this. You've been, you teased it so long. You built it up. You got to make some kind of a big deal about it. And I mean,

it'll be interesting though to just see exactly how and where they decide to make that announcement. Do you say, do you act like you're going to do it on the CBS portion and be like, oh, it's going to kick off the Paramount plus, uh, straight.

Yeah, we're going to have, we're going to do the announcement. We're announcing right now. We're going to do the announcement. announcement on Paramount plus in just a little bit, right? Dude, if he, do you remember how pissed off Ariel got on the piece of paper with the McGregor fight? Like he's like, I just looked at like a piece of paper that had been torn out of a notebook.

Do you remember this? Oh my God. It'd be worth it almost to see that again. I mean, we announced John Jones's retirement from the sport in the middle of the night from like Azerbaijan. So come on. The problem is they build it up so much. And Trump is to blame to some degree here as well saying like there's going to be a million title fights. It's going to have 100,000 people here.

this kind of stuff. But right, if they get Jones and it's Jones Pereira at the top of it, is everything else pretty much, whatever, this is a great fight. This is one of the greatest fighters of all time against a guy chasing, you know, three, three championships in different divisions. Like, is that enough to, to wet our appetites? I think you get, you, you need more than that for more than just placating the fans. You need more than that for your own peace of mind. you don't want to lay your head on the pillow every night thinking all the marbles are riding on John Jones showing up because that was the whole thing you didn't

you had said you didn't trust him to be the guy that you put all the hopes on and so I don't think you want to be in that position doesn't seem like the UFC feels totally confident of that even if they are willing to give him that fight I think if you could have that one if you had Kayla Harrison and Amanda Nunes ready to rebook in time for that one that is a legit

superfight that is a fight for like women's MMA goat status um you know and if you could get uh you know if you added Iliate Tuporia and Justin Gaci now you got yourself something that'll make us all shut up and be like okay you did do it you did put together a card that matched this level of buildup and anticipation you think I will say that the Kayla Harrison Nunes fight like it was just going to be almost buried on that UFC was it 324 whatever five whatever kicked off the paramed. This would feel far more appropriate for something like that where you can give it the proper spotlight.

I felt like it was just not going to get the love it deserved on the previous spot. And it gives you a good chance to do, I know Dana-O-Hed said he doesn't want to, it's not trying to do USA versus the world. People are going to read that into it a little bit, though. And this would give you a good chance to have an American champion win a big fight. And if you look around at whose champion and who the contenders are, you don't have endless fights available to you that can fit that bill.

I am prepared for disappointment. I'm, I'm, I'm, my, my, my buddy is ready. Of course you are. I'm Irish, we tend to, that's the how we approach life in general, to be honest. But I, I, I have, my body is ready for me to just go, oh, fucks sake. And I hear what's on the carriage, you know what I mean? Yeah. Maybe that's negative.

We do have some past experience to draw on here, though, boys. Like, I'm not. I don't know, just like, uh, 48 hours ago, you texted me like, oh, man, this is, like, You said something along the lines of sports of these sport is so boring, right? And then all of a sudden, 48 hours later, all this stuff we're talking about. Look at you. You're exuberant with what's whole. A little chaos just brings the life back into Pizzi's eyes.

A little saga, some soap opera stuff. There are some flights on tonight. Sorry tomorrow night. I did say tonight in the in the document, which New York Rick flagged a majorly. Thank you, New York Rick for flagging that. It is in fact tomorrow that UFC 326 is happening to anyone who read my notes I sent on the crack. That is inaccurate. It is happening tomorrow, not tonight.

But listen, lads, Max Holloway and Charles Oliverer have made wait for the BMF title fight. Thank God. It is happening. All of the fights are intact. It was just that one I mentioned earlier. Jung-Yung-Lee versus Gaston Bolanos. Again, I'm very sorry, Ben. That is a big bit of news for you to get here today.

But it is off the card. Lads, it's two fucking brilliant fighters. Two fighters that we all love. It reminds me of Max Holleyer. Holloway and Dustin Portiae to some degree where we're like, we, we just look these fucking guys. But I guess, I guess going into this, I would like to ask Ben about his piece about

Max Holloway, adding prestige to a title. You know, there was a lot of nice areas about the BMF. Has he elevated this title? Is it now, in fact, a Bonafide title? Should we be like, oh, it's fantastic. The BMF title is here. Why ever did we doubt its power? You know, I think that it's,

still clearly not the same as a UFC title of, you know, that, that says this is the best person in this weight class right now at this moment. And it does not say that, but it's also not exactly trying to say that, right? It's trying, it was always trying to be about a different thing. And it is, I thought, like, helpful to kind of go back and look at how we got there. We're like, Nate Diaz, basically showing up at a press conference and saying, like, I want to fight Jorge Masfodal. I'm not trying to like work my way up the ranks for some title shot out we're going to fight for the the baddest mother in the game belt and you know and people grabbed onto that immediately because it did seem like oh yeah we're familiar with this as a concept even if we never put these words

to it before that there are ways to go about a career you know if you're trying to climb the ranks but then there are other ways to go about this kind of career if you're just trying to be a fan favorite popular fighter. And we like those kind of guys. We do want there to be something that sort of recognizes what they're doing. That kind of fighting style where Justin Gagchi when he showed up with it said, hey, look, I know I'm not going to win them all this way. I know I'm not going to have the longest career this way,

but this is the way I want to fight because I feel like fans love it and it'll bring me money and glory. And so it is nice to have that kind of belt. The problem was we had that one BMF title fight where it was Nate Diaz, Jorge Masvedol made a big media push for it. We even got Buffalo Wild Wings to at least claiming that they were going to do the BMF wings. It seemed like a different story when I went down to my local Buffalo Wild Wings. That's right.

Jesus, I forgot about that. But we did that fight. It was a hit. It successfully gave the UFC some kind of belt you can put on this event when you didn't have one. Didn't have a rock put it around his waist too like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you basically put the belt in the closet for the next four years. Didn't do anything with it.

And we were just kind of went, oh, come on, we thought this was going to be a thing. And then they were sort of like bringing it out when we need it. When we have a fight card that where we need something, we don't have one of the legit UFC titles ready to go up for grabs here. Choose two guys, you know, hey, Dustin Poirier and Justin Gatesy. You guys busy? Go in here. We'll fight for the DMF title.

And it was just sort of like it was plug in gaps. But Max Holloway did really change it because he comes in their UFC 300, beats Justin with that just unforgettable moment. Still, that'll be one of the ones, you know, I was in the building for that one and I will never forget just the like the shock that everyone felt at that moment where he flattened Justin Gaci at the horn, inviting him to brawl when he knew he didn't have to. Everybody knew he didn't have to. And that was such a huge moment.

And then to turn around later and, you know, in a fairly reasonable time span and defend it against Dustin Poy, being the first guy, because that was the thing that was missing kind of before. was like nobody had defended it. Justin Gachie tried, lost to Max Holloway. Holloway took it from Gaichi, then defended against Dustin Poir, now defending it again against Charles Olivera. They're making smart matchups for what this title is supposed to be. These are the kind of guys where you look at them and be like, yeah, these all seem like the kind of dudes that could be BMF champions, as far as we understand that belt to mean. And so it's like Max Holloway really gave you something there because we do, we hold Max Holloway in this kind of reverence, even when he doesn't have a

title, we go, he's one of the great. He could stop right now and he's one of the greats. I mean, you nailed it too because if you were trying to define, okay, what is the belt about? Because people did this forever. Him pointing to the, you know, to the center of the cage and saying, let's throw down, I know I'm ahead, I don't care. And just doing that at the end and dropping, I mean, you could not have asked, especially at something like UFC 300, right? Like, you could not have asked for a more definitive like, okay, this is what it's about is this kind of thing. So he gave that moment. He gave that kind of definition, I guess, to what the belt is.

But it's funny because sometimes I'll hear people like, you know, maybe Binwa-Saint-Den-Denie or like, they'll mention somebody fighting for this belt. And I'm like, you know just based on the criteria you laid down, you're like, nah, but that doesn't make any sense towards what this is about. You're starting to change the meaning of what this is about. The one good thing about guys like Charles Oliver, and I know that it's not like in the written rules, but when you look at, okay, he's fought the who's who. I look back on this man. His first 10 fights, he was 5, 4, and 1. Like, he could have been cut. Remember he started missing weight a lot?

I think most the headlines around him were fairly negative. They weren't like that he was this guy who at some point, if he gets corrected, he's going to make a run. He did that. So now that you look at his career as a whole and his championship run and how he's able to win over, I think even like Brazil treats him like a hero now. And I think a lot of American fans see him in a whole different light, you know, as more of a superstar in the league.

it's it's that kind of perseverance and to have all those records against all, you know, all these UFC records and you go against Max who's had all these moments. I mean, 66 combined fights. That's kind of the thing, right? Like you're saying like,

these guys have overcome everything to end up in this spot. And it's going to, it'll be tough for them to maintain because not every, those guys are rare. The guys who can last and have that kind of success and aura about them. But this particular one, man, just like with the Porre one, like you're mentioning,

I feel like it kind of encapsulates. what we wanted to be, right? And I think that's what makes it fun for this one. Yeah. And you are right. There's something about the BMF thing where when you hear somebody's name proposed as a potential BMF title fight contender, it's sort of like that old definition of pornography.

You know it when you see it. And it's sort of like that where it's like you'll hear somebody's name and you'll be like, okay, he's a good fighter and everything. But no, that doesn't feel right. He doesn't feel like he meets the criteria. I can't exactly. say to you what the criteria are. I can't explain it and put it into words.

But if you suggest somebody, you just sort of like viscerally know yes or no, whether they belong there. You were talking about the copycat guys who pointed the ground. It kind of feels like when you're, when you're at the bar, in college, you go back to the party afterwards and some lad picks of the guitar and starts, you know, the first two

chords of Wonderwall. And you're just, fuck off. Now, listen, man, just put the fucking CD on, okay? I don't give a fuck. All right? Just, and then they'll start playing come as you are and you're like, fuck off. None of these songs right now, okay?

Not you. Put the fucking spot of, where we didn't have it in the 90s. Anyway, yeah, look, I was trying to make it a point. I left off myself there. No, that's fine. With the record on the CD or whatever. Music. Chuck, you asked me in our roundtable

if I thought these lads were fighting for something more than the BMF total, like could they somehow leapfrog just engage you? We were just previously talking about potentially being on this boy house card. But do you think that's at stake here? Like, Max Holloway, as we mentioned, that unbelievable moment at USC 300, he's capable of doing magical things in there. Like, do you think that is possible or is the fact that Ilya just destroyed these two guys probably rule them out? I would like to think that it wouldn't rule them.

I would like to think that you would go with the guy who has the interim title just because that is by definition exactly what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to lead to the title fight, right? Like, it's the placeholder. but in today's UFC man and considering fan favorites and recency bias and just kind of like the more cinematic idea of what we're doing a lot of times with this sport I wouldn't be surprised let's put it that way if Max Holloway went in there and delivered another crazy moment can you imagine I mean it's almost like the cult of Max that we've known would just soar through the roof right it would be he'd be on a whole different level again and I think that sometimes like he's such a fan favorite that that it would be kind of, it would be, it wouldn't be the right move, but I could see the UFC entertaining something like that. Honestly, though, I mean, like, Justin Gaichi, like you've got, if you're trying to build Ilya to Poria, right?

You're trying to actually put him into a place where he's the stratosphere and like he's the guy there, but I think you've got to keep your course. Let him, uh, you know, let him handle his business against Gaichi. And then why not have him fight like a guy like Max if he's still there, right? I mean, but that's what I would do. in today's UFC man, the way that they don't need to justify, they just kind of like make it in there like, that's a great fight, what are you talking about?

You know, and that's kind of where we, where we end up. And sometimes interim title doesn't really mean anything. It's been a lack of enthusiasm about the Paramount Air so far, really, like with the card offerings, like, you know, a lot of people are kind of saying, like, it hasn't really knocked our socks off, to put it lightly.

Ariel Loani, speaking about USC 326 on Wednesday's show, was kind of like, look, I think the buzz is going to pick up on Thursday. Has it been? You know, I don't know. It's for me, at least me personally, you get to, you get a little more leeway when you're not asking for $80 for every single one of these events. When it's just one price, you get in the door, you take away the pressure on us to ask on a card by card basis, is this worth it? Because you've just changed the calculus there financially. So I think that you get a little more rope. But for me, the thing that is really missing right now is I can't recall another time in the modern era of the UFC where we've had so few big

fights even lined up for for this far into a year. You know, we're now into March and you still, you're looking around at what UFC titles we actually know are going to be up for grabs and there just isn't much. And now we've been waiting, we've been willing to give you a little bit of room on

that because we go, maybe you're announcing a whole bunch of them, you're saving them for this White House card. I still think that that is going to create its own issues if that's what you're doing because it means for months leading up to that you don't have any other fights and for months after that you won't have any other title fights because people will need to be recovering from those fights but if that is in fact what's going on we'll kind of go okay it's not the ideal way to start your new broadcast deal though because you haven't had a whole lot of stuff that forces people to be like all right damn it i'll go ahead

and i'll sign up for your new streaming service you just haven't really gotten there in terms of you know, big fight potential. You've been trying to get there just in terms of, hey, this is where all the fights are now. If you want to watch this stuff every weekend, it is on, you know where to find it. It's all the more reason, though, like, when you talk about that, man,

it's all the more reason why this White House card, if it can be in any way, shape, or form, the reason that we haven't had a bunch of excitement of fights buildups around it, you know, or like, we can't see the landscape. That's why the pressure, like when you mention this piece, if you're preparing yourself,

you're like, you're preparing yourself because they have they've never done this they've never been like okay we're putting a bunch of eggs in a bass we're not talking about what these are yet you know what i mean and we're gonna like it alter it it it kind of um affects everything around it and that's huge anticipation i can even ufc 300 didn't approach something like this we're like if you don't come correct with this lineup at this point kind of putting us in uh in a different kind of position like looking at your schedule and everything else it's going to seem underwhelming you know what I mean? So I feel like they have to come big with this one.

There is some interesting fights. Like I'm interested in Barallo and RDR. Purely, like more so because of the fall off of Ordiore, like how he be wearing him? Like Mershard, Holland, Nickel, Whitaker. Then he has an absolute stinker against Brendan Allen. There's no doubt about it. Like it doesn't look like the guy we saw at all. Meanwhile, Barallo goes and fights Imovov in Paris, which is a very hard thing to do, no doubt about it. But I didn't think he was great that night either. But I feel like opinion is completely fucked.

When it comes to RDRly, people are talking about this guy like, he's terrible all of a sudden. And you're like, have you, did you not see any of this room? You know what I mean? I don't know. Well, he's, maybe it's just because of some of the awkwardness of his style or whatever. People, his first fight in the UFC, people are like, this is the guy you're excited to bring over? This guy sucks. Then he goes on this run, he beats Bo-Nichol, he starts to look pretty good.

And people go like, okay, no, this guy's rad. Next champion. Here we go rocket ship from hell going straight to the top. And then he has that really bad night against Brendan Allen. And it's right back to, never mind, this dude sucks. It's like he's not getting to enjoy any sort of middle ground at all. This one, though, is super important for him because honestly, after that Brendan Allen fight, the explanation that he offered, and I was trying to coin a new term in my mailbag this week about when fighters are like,

I'm not making excuses, but. And then it's like, everybody else makes excuses. They offer explanations. And so I think we need a word in between, like an exploose or an exclamation, something like that. Fighters love to do that. Fantastic. But his exploose, I was actually willing to buy to some extent because he was like, look, I was just basically in training camps nonstop all year long, just kept my foot down on the gas, wore myself out. And when I showed up to fight, there just wasn't anything left in the tank.

And I screwed that up. And I kind of went, you know what, I could see it. I could see how that might be possible because it did just look bad, just looked like he didn't have a second year in that fight. But that was what, October? Now you've been off since then. It's March. You're going to show up and people are going to be like, so what now?

Are you rested? Are you ready to go? Because you don't get to offer that same exploose twice. You got to show up this time. Otherwise people are just going to be like, no, that was just, you know, you're making stuff up to cover your ass. you're actually not good enough for that next level. Can you imagine the fight game with no exclusives?

Because these guys are just like, you know what, man, I lost that fight, and I couldn't tell you why. He's just better than me. Probably always be better than me. I don't know what you want me to do. Yeah. We could run that back 10 times and I don't see how I'd beat him. I mean, it was pretty good.

There are a few phrases that when I hear from a fighter, especially in a post-fight interview or something like that, that make me immediately sit up and be like, okay, this is going to be good. One of the phrases is, especially if a Brazilian fighter says it, in my country, we have a saying. And I go, oh, everybody shut up. I want to hear this because it's going to be amazing.

It's always incredible, especially what the Brazilians have a saying. And you're just like, man, the Brazilians have a thousand different ways of saying that, you know, shut up or I'll kick your ass. But then the other saying that I always pay attention to. The other one I love is when a fighter is like, I'm not one to make excuses. And you're like, there's a butt coming. There's a butt coming and we're going to hear the most amazing news. But I was poisoned by room service. You know, it's going to be something like that.

You'd never want to miss those. You know what the five words are that like you, just the opposites, you're like, you can stop talking. I don't want to hear anymore. Turns their whole room off. In my other fantasy league. You ever heard anybody do that? You're like, if you're in a fantasy league, like a football league,

And then like in my other fantasy, like, no, dude, I don't like, I don't, I barely want to talk about our fantasy league. Anyone else? So bad. For Raoul Rosas Jr. Because I am. And Rob Font is a guy that gets, gets right up there and then he loses. And, you know, everyone's like, oh, Rob Funt, you know, they give him the RDR treatment. But you know what he's fucking excellent that?

Beating the shit out of prospects. Beating the absolute shit. That's true. Right. Pointed the song. Adrian Yanez. Kyle Phillips. John Matsumoto.

I mean, he does this routinely. And Reel, they really like this fight, right? Like, I think they've tried to make this fight before. And Raoul is there, but he's 21. He's clearly a really talented guy, amazing grappler. But I'm just like, the hands of Rob Fond coming at this 21-year-old, it could be a lot, you know? Anyone else or am I just very worried? No, I mean, the thing that makes it so tricky for him is that everybody can look at this fight and tell what

the UFC is thinking. They, they're not putting this fight together in an attempt to be on the Rob Font business. They, they, this is a fight that they put together. I get Rob Fawn over. Because we are trying to put Raul Roses Jr. in a, in a situation to be successful. That's, that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to set him up for a possibility that he can go out there and, and take another step forward. And so when you do that, and everybody knows, okay, this was a fight made for one guy to win, losing those fights is disastrous. Way more so than when you take two guys who seem to be on the same footing as contenders and up-and-comers and you're going, let's see who's the real deal and who's not there yet.

You know, you could lose one of those fights that come back from it. This one, but you're right. Like the, I mean, a 38-year-old, like Rob Fawn in these lighter weight classes, it doesn't always go great for them. That is a big obstacle. But we've seen so many guys, and this was kind of always going to be the danger for Raul Roses Jr. When you make a guy a thing as a teenager,

you put that much spotlight on him, you put that kind of pressure on him as a teenager, you can only give him, I don't want to say easy fights, but hand-picked fights for so long because people are going to be like, hey, you told us this guy was a thing, is he or not?

Put him up against somebody we know, put him up against a test that actually means something to us or else shut up about him. And so, like, you put that on him so early, 21 is still so young. Yeah, man. In your career, there's so many guys who go on, who don't look great at that age, would go on and have great careers.

But you also have seen guys where you kind of out of necessity because of who you told us they are get overmatched too soon. And it's just more than they're ready for. We've definitely seen things like this. This is unique in the sense there's a 17-year gap between these guys. Like you said, he's 21 years old. It's so different in that respect. But the times where the UFC is kind of like, all right, we're going to give you an escalation.

and opponent. And this is going to be the moment that you kind of start to advance more into, you know, name brand opponents where, uh, and, you know, people are going to be talking about,

you know, the greatest one that comes to mind is, is obviously Peyton Talbot, man, when they fought like, uh, barcelos and you're thinking, oh,

well, I mean, this is strategic. It's a little step up in competition, but this is a guy he should handle. He's something like minus 1,200 favorite to go get it done. And you see what happens, man. Sometimes these dudes take it like a personal affront when you say,

And Rob Font would be one of these guys, man, Massachusetts guy. He's going to be one of those guys who's like, so you're telling me that I'm a stepping stone for this guy, and you could see the defiance coming out of him. And I would be surprised if we didn't see him actually go in there and put on a very good performance. And I mean, as a gentleman of a certain age myself, how do you not cheer for Rob Font a little bit to put it on this whippersnapper, you know?

Unk, he's going to go there. It is an unc work. All right, go ahead. Don't under us say the unc strength. It is 100% was going to happen. What was it going to say? CBS, yeah, I don't know. Can you explain this for non-US people?

Because I'm seeing Caposa put out, like, oh, this fight's going to be the first one of the CBS generation. It's obviously a big deal. Like I obviously know it's a big network, I guess. But like for non-US people, what is the importance of CBS as opposed to paramount full slats? Either one of you, please. I mean, it's just, right.

Ben, I mean, it's like, if you grew up, a gentleman of a certain age, But like if you grew up in the time when there was only four stations, like CBS was one of those. So it's like the core of the earth. And I still think that when you can hit any of those, any of those broadcast stations that are, you know, CBS, NBC, if you can hit one of those, it's always going to be a big deal. It obviously is less a big deal in my mind as time has gone on. But I think that that same hallmarks still exists, right? Like, it just, it's hitting the, it's hitting the.

It's hitting the center of everything that you, you know, the center, I guess, of the broadcast world when you're on CBS. Yeah, I mean, it's just so easy to find. I mean, first of all, there have been M&A fights on CBS before. Like, that's, you know, CBS is one of the first networks to get into it back. But they put Kimbo Slice out there on TV in like 2008, you know? Yep. Yeah, Lee D.C. Mm-hmm.

So they're no stranger. That part has happened before. But it is just like the accessibility of it. everybody can get it. You don't have to know how to, you don't have to sign up for a streaming service. You don't have to know how to, like you were talking about pizza going into some pub in Dublin,

and you're asking a 90-year-old bartender, can you download this app and so we can watch this fight? He's just like, I'm not doing it, man. You want an appetizer? What? Yeah, CBS makes it so that you don't have to do, you just turn on the damn TV. And there is. Fabulous stuff.

Any plans in Boston tonight? Dan, what's on the agenda? Well, obviously, I'm going to the Boston Ballet to see Crystal Pites Seasons. I don't have to tell you guys that. You get the luckiest ticket in the world. Everybody is trying to get tickets to tell me again? Crystal Pites, the seasons canon. I mean, Crystal Pite, obviously, one of the goats.

So everybody knows that. You're not going to miss an opportunity to see Crystal Pites for. Just right down the street here. I'm asking for everybody listening, what they might. Yeah. Tell our audience. I don't want to get it. You tell our audience.

I mean, obviously the great Canadian choreographer, Crystal Pite, her name rings out, rings out in the streets. And then, you know, just to, you know, since my wife is being such a good sport and going to this with me, then I'm going to go with her to see the Boston Bruins play tomorrow afternoon. I was like, what were you going to do if somebody came up to you and was like, hey, man, I got two tickets right on the glass with the Boston Bruins tonight. Which one would you choose? But it turns out you're doing both. I'm doing both. And then, you know, we got ourselves an afternoon game over there against the Washington Capitals.

We do this a lot. Well, we will go take trips where we'll see one dance thing, one sports thing. You feel like you're not with yourself, though. Wherever I am. You're like, we need to go and watch some hockey now. Yeah. We need to bring our tastes back down. Normally, wherever we are, you know, we're from the culture side.

And we were in San Francisco. saw a Giants game and I'm like I'm going to buy San Francisco Giants merch for that day only I'm a big fan. Went and saw a Paris San Germain soccer match still got the PSG merch I can't do it in Boston I refuse to do it in Boston

I already got my Alexander Ovetchkin shirt that I bought just to go to this game come what may I'm not doing I'm not going to go in there and pretend to be a fan of any Boston sports get over to the garden tonight guys it's happening that's what

takes that's what we're going to do post show tomorrow mate we have we're going to be up through the night and yeah that's right he'll be off gallivanting of course and we'll be here just getting right back in oh and here we go here it is it is the predictions it's one of the most hotly antism i can't see that but you're going to have to tell me she ain't sent it to me i've got on my personal cell phone right here okay lads for the main event has anyone picked against max holloway no they have not has anyone picked against favorite Kyle Borallo in the Comain event?

Yes, they have. Ben Fox has. Connor Burks has. Peecey Carroll has the rest, including the Great Chuck Menon Hall, all on the side of Borallo. That's my process too. We just talked about Rosas Jr.

Has anyone gone ahead and picked Rob Font with all of this stigma around him being so much older? Two people have. Connor Brooks once again, making some bold moves towards Mysterious at the top of the table. And also, Drake Riggs, last year's champion, coming in heavy.

Wait a minute. You didn't. I thought you were guaranteed a big rock by. I'm trying to get mysterious Frank. I'm out for blood. I'm coming up. I'm coming up for you. You're showing them right now.

And then we have the Dober v. Johnson, the Blood Fest, the bloodletting. All Dober apart from Shook Menanol Johnson, Drake Wiggs Johnson and Shaheen Al Shaddy, bottom of the table. I just want to bring that up. Bottom of the table, Shaheen Al Shadi, our editor in chief. He is currently bottom of the table. Just wanted to highlight that.

If you're looking for him up the top there, you won't find him because he's right at the bottom. Next one, we have Robocop versus Bruno Ferreira, a rematch. But only one person is going for Bruno, and that is Connor Brooks making some bold fucking moves. G.C. here that is intimidating me a little bit. That could help him,

because I could go either way for sure, man. Okay. Here's the thing. We have to pick a wild card. Everybody's nearly on Johnson, right? Dante Johnson, everybody, apart from Chuck, who has gone with the man's name I cannot pronounce. Yeah, that's why I chose him. I wanted to hear you say this name.

He is an exciting dude. Yes. You brought up in the round table as well. And mysterious Frank has gone for the boy who's missed weight, Jung Jung Lee. He has him there. So that's straight away. That's a red mark. What happens there?

How do the The scoring rules? Wow. If it happens to one of us, obviously if it happens to us, we'll do it again. But the Sto's Frank, not available,

doesn't contribute to text chats during events, nothing like that. That's a loss immediately for me. Lads, we're about to leave, we're about to let, you know, Ben go to the ballet, but we need to hear

from the beautiful crackheads who have sent some super chats, I think. I don't know, Andy, have they? They have. Come on. Some crackheads. All right.

see. Andrew Harbaugh. How insane would contract talk with Tito? I can't even begin to imagine. Would it be like talking to the Oracle or something where it's just he's saying a bunch of like weird things and you're like, I can't tell even what he's trying to communicate to me. And then six months later something happens and you're like, oh God, he was, he peered into the future. Two days a week. I work out. Six days a week. past them hoiler reels of Tito just talking nonsense. I- I'm not either.

I know. And I laugh every time as if it's like the thought. Imagine him in a contract talk. He's going to there. He's like, we want a levity bimbidi dollars. You're like, what? You know the one where he did the view in Bambaloo at Strike Force?

It's like the fucking favorite shit ever. It's just, how unbelievable is he up being terrible at talking? He's one of the greatest ball time. The one where he's like, he's like, I'd never fought for free. I'd never fight for free. for free. And then the guy says something, he's like,

I thought for free the first, like at the, like, he was right after it. It doesn't even like, doesn't get enough respect. Any more there, Andy, or was just the Tito? Okay. Connor O. Hanlon, Irishman, fair play. Z8B, just because that's his name. If you are Netflix, all right, so P.C. Carl is Netflix. Would you be any bit keen for a Francis V. Gable? Oh!

Oh! I don't think about this. Fuck. That, like, I mean, imagine how much more money Gable would get for that. Like, they'd probably do a one-foy fucking deal. Like, I don't know what they do, but like, Jesus, he needs. That's very interesting. Yeah. Did you?

I did think about this. That's the first time I've seen it, Connor. Yeah. Well, I mean, when Ben was talking about names, I'm like, well, the only guy out there's kind of the very young guy, you know, or the young guy in sports. I wish he didn't say that, Connor. In a heartbeat. If you, if you had that available to you, you'd make that.

Yeah. Absolutely. amazing. Connor O'Anlan. Congratulations. That was fantastic. Do we have anything else on? Pizu.

Alexander, we can't see the rest of your name. Thank you, though. Responding to A.J.S.B.P. Super Chat. Pizzi Guinness. Eddie, Birram, or Eddie. Dana Stella. Okay. Oh, my God.

Same answer is Pizzi. Thank you, boys. I don't know what the first part meant to that. AGB. Do I use? That part seems. It seems important. I have no idea with those.

Very funny remark he's made there about Dana drinking Stella because Stella Artois has a nickname in Ireland. And I don't want to. Please tell me. Come on. Well, if you're going for

a couple of points of, Stella. And again, this is not me saying this. This is our wonderful commenter, Alexander. You would say, you write two Guinness.

And what do you want? I'll have a point of wife, Peter. And you'd get him a point of Stella Artoe. Jesus. See, I would have never connected any of this, man. No, yeah.

I was Alexander, without knowing anything. I did not say that. I was reading out a comment and I was simply giving my U.S. friends' contracts. All right. Anything else, Andy? Pizzi, if you had to use a beer, beer analogy.

Look at this all over. Okay. I think we've got a lot of order here. Listen, Alexander nailed it. I'm sorry, AJ, SBP. Okay? He nailed it. He absolutely knocked out of it.

and thank you for selecting me as Guinness. I'm sorry. Oh, no, no, here we go. CTMMA 808. Dana's peers denial, never questions aspirin's injury, reality check. Surgery, you mean injections. USC 324 presser.

180, gas loading the heavyweight champ while Eddie Heron swoops in, crack, push Dana to own it. JJ v. Alex, let's fucking go. It's a great for you. I'm not going to load you. But I mean, of course. Like, of course he fucking shot all over. Tom.

He said crazy shit about him. Like it's, like, it's like. Yeah. And you know what? Eddie Hearn keeps saying like, I feel like there's a pep and Tom Step like he's going around. Oh, he actually saw that as well.

Like in all these videos and promos and of course he knows his cameras on him and stuff. But you do get a sense that like he's like, I feel like I'm fucking doing something here. I'm with a guy who's like, this guy's fucking class. He is so marketable. He's one of the biggest stars in the UK. Like that just must feel fucking good to be around if you're Tom

Aspinel after going through the last four months he had, right? That's true. Yeah. What did he say? He's lost some of his mojo or something like that and he's trying to. Eddie Hearns. Alaini Wafar that shit. Yeah.

How are we looking on? Oh, Aunt Evans' M. Ammae. Is that a dead hooker in that unmade bad band? Jesus Christ. Classy. This is a classy guy. I expect nothing less.

Nothing less from Ann Evans. I'm looking at. I congratulations on collar, by the way. Uh, at 24 inch dubs. bleed green tatum oh sorry that's sorry that was a basketball reference did not I don't really care about football yeah yeah

Ben would you go to a basketball game if you had if you could out there or you not care I don't care about basketball I just feel like you never talk about basketball not at all yeah just can't you know here's the problem for me

once I got really into hockey it made it so that basketball seemed like in a way the same thing but way more tedious. Still, it's like a five on five kind of thing. We're going back and forth on opposite ends. But it's just like if you get a, you know, what, they go down, they score a basket and you're like,

okay, I guess that was good, but you better go down. You better go down and score a basket again next time. You just score one basically every time. It's just like. You do have to basically, yeah. You don't need to watch anything except for the last two minutes of a basketball game. That's your goblin. They almost never fight.

It's terrible. It's not wrong. I mean, there's some problems with basketball sometimes, you know? And you're right. Like,

and a lot of teams don't show up until after the All-Star breaks. So like the whole beginning of the calendar is kind of whatever. You need to sell me on March Madness this year. Every year I'm asking you, just send me like a five minute of voice message

just getting me. That is fun usually. And if I have to gamble, I will. I can do that for you. Okay. Okay. No,

no, no reason to watch it if you're not gambling or at least have like an office pool going. You got to create your rooting in. you know. Andy, is that all? That was it. Well, look, thank you for all the super chats, my friends. Thank you for gallivanting, Ben, folks, joining us once again during another vacation. Now rivaling Jordan for vacations. Take care of your dead, hookah. Don't. I'm not referenced this at all. This is Aunt Dev as a Chuck Ben and all going completely off the rails.

Oh, we both. Enjoy the fight. Enjoy the White House announcement. We're going to be on the post-fight show immediately after it, but join the boys for the watching. you long. It's always absolutely fantastic. So we will see you then. It will be the wee hours of Sunday morning for me, but I'll have every bit of enthusiasm for you, because I love you. See you next week. I love it.