The Ariel Helwani Show - Full UFC White House breaking news, Tom Aspinall, Sean O’Malley, Eddie Hearn, Bo Nickal, more

Episode Date: March 9, 2026

Ariel Helwani kicks off the show by recapping massive MMA news, starting with Francis Ngannou being added to the Rousey vs. Carano Netflix event (06:26), then touching on the UFC White House card announcement (11:52), negotiations with Jon Jones and Ilia Topuria for the card (27:38), Conor McGregor’s upcoming negotiations (46:31), the BMF title losing meaning (53:01), fan sentiment that Ngannou “fumbled” (59:25), and Tom Aspinall teaming with Eddie Hearn (1:12:40). Sean O’Malley joins to discuss his bout against Aiemann Zahabi at the White House, explaining how the fight came together, Petr Yan being his top choice, not being offered Cory Sandhagen, and then discusses his recent fighter pay comments (1:30:21). Bo Nickal is next, breaking down his own White House fight, touching on the fan reaction, surprise about Kyle Daukaus being the opponent, Colby Covington turning down the opportunity, criticism of the card overall, whether President Trump requested his inclusion on the card, and more (2:00:24). Eddie Hearn is back to discuss the launch of Matchroom Talent Agency and Tom Aspinall being its first signing. Hearn talks about Aspinall’s UFC contract status, potential for negotiating opposite Dana White, other MMA fighters reaching out for representation, White’s recent comments about Hearn, including challenging him to a fight, Conor Benn’s deal with Zuffa Boxing and Jai Opetaia’s debut, needing to book a fight for Katie Taylor at Croke Park, and more (2:29:38). Tom Aspinall is the final guest of the day, discussing his partnership with Hearn, his UFC contract compared to his earning potential, whether he plans to box, the state of his relationship with Dana White, the latest on his eye and a timeline to return, his reaction to Jon Jones asking for his release, and more (3:40:40).

Lee's and welcome to the air on this Monday, March 9th, 2000. And 26, hello again, everyone. I sure hope you're doing well. It is so great to be here. Golly, is it great to be here on a beautiful Monday in New York City. Now, some of you overseas may be wondering, wait a second, wait a second, wait a second, why are you guys on an hour earlier than usual? Well, there is a lot to get to, but we are actually not on an hour earlier. We have sprung forward here in the United States of America, in North America as well.

You haven't just yet. So if you usually watch us in the UK, Ireland, France, you haven't done that just yet. You're going to do that at the end of the month. So for the next few weeks, we're on an hour earlier. If you are one who likes to watch us live, and I hope you are one who likes to watch us live, especially on this Monday, because, golly, my friends, we have a lot to get to. This could be like a six, seven hour show, all right? And I didn't do that on purpose.

Six to seven hours, okay? I feel like that whole six-seven thing has kind of died at this point. Like you're kind of weird if you're still doing it. I'm fired up. No, no, no, no. You are weird. I'm fired up because there's a lot going on. I'm fired up because there's a lot to talk about.

I'm fired up because there's a lot of people to talk to. There's so much going on in the world of sports right now. I have world baseball classic fever. I can't get enough of this thing. All the celebrations and all the games and the dancing and all that stuff. But you're not here to. to talk about all of that. You're not here to listen to me, talk about all of that. You want the goods, and I have the goods. UFC 326 has come and gone. Bit of a, we'll talk about that. Breaking

News regarding the Netflix fight coming up on May 16th. We'll talk about that. And after this program, I'm off to Los Angeles. I haven't been to Los Angeles in a hell of a long time. I think it's been like three or so years, maybe even more since the WrestleMania that was there. I think that was 23. Anyway, I'll be hosting that press conference on Tuesday tomorrow at the Intuit Dome. I'm so mad the Knicks are actually playing the Clippers tonight. Had they played them tomorrow, I could have seen the Knicks at the Clippers. That would have been amazing.

I hosted a press conference in New York City on Friday. You may have seen that. MVPW is headed to ESPN. ESPN is back in the boxing business. It was MVPW that brought them back. You'll recall, we've been talking about this a lot. ESPN out of the boxing business as of July of 2025, the top rank show from this past summer. They haven't been back in.

No one scored a deal. And here come the ladies, beginning on April 5th. They'll be on ESPN. That first show, which is a great one, Caroline Dubois against Terry Harper, will be on ESPN Digital. The second one, April 17th, will be on ESPN linear. And then the third one, May 30th. Second one features Alicia Baum, Garnier, Dasea, Green. the third one, Holly Home, Stephanie Hontu,

will also be on ESPN linear, and that will be from El Paso, Texas. Never been there. All three of those events, and a few more will be announced. I think it's going to be six total per year, all on ESPN. And so a bit of a homecoming of sorts

for your boy, Ariel Hawani. Not like in an official capacity like I was in, but back on the airways, very excited. And it's a great time to be alive. So we hosted that on Friday in the midst of all the craziness. Doing the Netflix thing tomorrow. Got a big week ahead.

I'll tell you about the different kind of schedule that'll be throwing your way this week. But we'll get to all of that over the course of today's program. There's so much going on. My head is spinning because I want to share everything with you guys and I want to hear from the boys as well. So let me tell you about today's program. Back into the show,

we're going to be joined by the one and only the reigning defending UFC heavyweight champion, the pride of Wigan, the pride of Manchester, the pride of the United Kingdom, the pride of Great Britain. Tommy Aspinall. Man, that feels like it was like 10 years ago. You may have heard on Thursday news broke that he has signed with the Matchroom Talent Agency

that Eddie Hearn is going to be his commercial advisor, not necessarily his manager per se, but his commercial advisor, as they're putting it. We're going to talk to him about that. We're going to talk to him about the White House fights. We're going to talk to him about his eye, all that and more. It's going to be great. Prior to that, we're going to be joined by the aforementioned Eddie Hearn to talk about all of this, plus the simmering feud with Dana White and Zufa Boxing and TKO, plus Jayopataya

yesterday, Connor Ben. And I haven't talked to Eddie Hearn in quite some time. And a lot has happened since the last time we spoke. And he was ducking me earlier in the week. And I was wondering why. He wasn't getting back to me. Now I know why the big announcement on Thursday, the press conference on Friday. You've seen it all.

The boys talked about it. PT and the crew talked about it. I've weighed in a little bit, but there's a lot more to say. And we'll talk to the particulars on today's program. Prior to that, we're going to be joined by Bo Nickel, who, as we found out on Saturday night, will be a part of the White House card. UFC Freedom 250. That's what they're calling it. And it's a wild thing.

Freedom fights. Freedom 250. Golly. It's going to be Bo Nickel against Kyle Dachas. The only American versus American fight on this card will talk to Bo who's been having some fun with people online. And then prior to that, Sugar Sean O'Malley is going to join us. He too is on this card going up against the Canadian. Amin Zahabia, and he's been asking people, whose side am I on?

Zahabi, obviously, we look alike. We're both from Montreal. Shuga we love. We're down the middle. We're down the middle. We're right down the middle. We're unbiased, down the middle, impartial, no favorites. We love everyone.

Peace and love, peace and love. But that is another fight that is on this card. So we're going to get into that whole thing with those guys. We'll talk to these four fantastic gentlemen throughout the course of today's show we're going to get into the White House stuff, we're getting into everything, have no fear.

By the end of today's program, you will be all caught up on everything going on in the world of combat sports and in particular MMA, because I know that's what you come to us for. First, let's talk about the breaking news of the day so far, the new news, if you will. Frankie had a late night last night,

so I do want to give him some grace. He was up very late working on the inside boxing pod, which is out right now. They did a reaction to the Jayopataya, Zufa title fight. So he's a little tired on this Monday. Am I fair to say that, Frank? Who's to check?

All right. But he's great. He was up till the wee hours of the morning on a Sunday night working to put that up. So if you want to hear what the hardcore boxing aficionados thought about that show, go check it out. It's on the feed. It's on their channel. Inside Boxing, Dan Kenobio and the great Chris Algeri.

Tomorrow's another uncrown wrestling show. All right. So the new news today. We woke up today. 9 a.m. The news broke that Francis Ngano has been added to the May 16th MVP MMA card, the first ever MVP MMA card, the first ever live MMA card on Netflix,

the one headlined by Ronda Rousey versus Gina Carrano, May 16th, Intuit Dome, Inglewood, California. Francis Ngano, who we found out on Friday morning, had parted ways with the PFL, is going to fight former PFL tournament, winner, former UFC fighter, Philippe Lins, on that fight card. It hasn't been officially announced where it will be on the card, but it's a heavyweight fight. It's Angano versus Lins, and it's going down May 16th. You may recall that Philippe Lins was a part of the PFL. He moved

over to the UFC, and he actually left the UFC on a winning streak. In fact, it was four fights in a row that he had won. His last fight was in March of 2024 against Iwan. Pucci Laba, prior to that beat Maxim Grishin, prior to that beat O'Vince St. Prue, prior to that beat Marcin, Prachnio, and they didn't resign him. The contract just expired. Prior to joining the UFC, he was a part of the PFL. Like I said, he won their tournament in 2018, defeating Josh Copeland. And he has not fought since. So I could tell you that other people were discussed for this fight. In the end, for various reasons, they went with Philippe Lins. And this is a This is a big opportunity for Francis, obviously, to get back on track.

His last UFC fight was 2022 against Surreal Gunn. Then he has the... It hasn't been that long. Golly, it's been that long, eh? Wow, 2022 is... Let me just make sure I'm saying the right thing here. Holy shit, time is flying. Four years ago.

Then he has the Tyson Fury fight in October of 2023 after signing with the PFL and May of 2023. Then he fights Anthony Joshua in March of 24. Then he fights Henifahedda in October of 24 and he hasn't fought since. I mean, even that, I can't believe it was in 2024. Unbelievable. So this will be his first fight since October of 2024. His first MMA fight is first fight of any kind. And he went

online to talk about the announcement and also to maybe share some future plans of his. Here's what Francis had to say. Hey guys, rumors are true. I'm joining the Roussevescarano M.M.A. fight on Netflix. I'll be entering the case against to fight Flip Lint from Brazil. MVP is the promoter, so who knows? Maybe this means I'm one step closer of knocking out Jetport 2. But first thing first,

cash me on Saturday, May 16 on Rousseevskarano, live only on Netflix. Okay, so there you have it from the man himself. I understand he too will be at that press conference tomorrow. So too will Philippe Lins and I think some other people mentioned in that video are going to be there as well. So it's going to be quite the scene. I mean, for Rousey and Carrano alone, it's going to be quite the scene.

And I have no idea what to expect. I'm actually quite nervous about what's going to happen. I have no idea what to expect. But I think it's going to be very interesting and I'm looking forward and excited and honor to be a part of it. So that will be going down tomorrow and that fight has been added. More fights are obviously going to be added. It's going to be a full card. And this is a huge deal for the sport.

Netflix getting into MMA is good for the sport. Netflix getting into MMA is incredible for the sport, I should say. And for the fighters, there needs to be some alternative out there. The PFL has one year left on their ESPN deal and then we don't know what becomes of them after that. Netflix, I don't think necessarily wants to be in the 40 show. event business, they want to be in the big event business. Look at the shows that they've done so far. And so putting on big shows, big events that will be seen by millions and millions and millions of people is good for fighters, good for everyone involved in the sport, good for the media,

good for everyone. We need this. This sport needs this. It can't just be one thing, can't just be one entity. There needs to be competition because the competition makes the one entity better, just like AW made WW better, in my opinion. There needs to be competition. And so I'm excited to see how Francis looks. I'm excited for the fight. I'm excited for the opportunity. I think it's going to be great. And we'll talk more about it throughout the show. I want to get into the White House stuff because obviously that's the fight card that is on everyone's mind. We were waiting to see when the UFC would announce it. And they finally did on Saturday night in the midst of UFC 326. So let's get into it. We know by now that the main event is Iliate Tuporia. against Justin Gaichi for the undisputed UFC lightweight title. That's been announced. In addition to that, we also know that Alex Pereira is officially moving up to heavyweight to fight Sorrel Gan for the interim heavyweight title.

This will be Surreal Gan's fifth title fight. Interim or not, fifth crack at a belt. And obviously, the last one ended very abruptly and unceremoniously against Tom Aspinall. We'll get into them as well. In addition to that, we've got Sugar Shana O'Malley against Amin Zahabi, Bo Nickel against Kyle Dachis, we've got Steve Garcia against the one and only Diego Lopez. I tried to do this off the top of my dome, and I'm missing one, I'm missing one, I'm missing one, I'm missing one.

There it is, Maricio Huffy against Michael Chandler. How can I forget? How could I forget? So Maricio Huffy versus Michael Chandler is the, I guess, fourth fight. from the top. Chandler gets to be on the White House card. He doesn't get the Connor McGregor fight. There was talk of BSD versus Chandler. Benoit Saint-Din-Ne. He's unavailable. He appears to be hurt. So they go with Hoofee, who looked good in his last fight, obviously when he came back in Australia. And they do right by Chandler in the sense that they give him this. He wanted to be on the card, obviously against Connor. He's not getting Connor. I still think that he should

have gotten Connor. I don't understand why he can't fight Connor McGregor. I don't understand. I feel you've put in so much time and effort into building that up. From the Ultimate Fighter to all the interviews, Connor wanted it, he wanted it, but the UFC didn't want it. So at least they're giving him the White House card. It's a very prestigious spot, obviously. So there you go. There's the six pack.

I'm told they may add, they may add one more by the time it's all said and done. Maybe one more, but that would be it. So let's see. They may end with this, six fights, and they may add one more. We still don't know the breakdown between. between Paramount Plus, CBS, is half of it going to air here, the other half there? I think it's safe to say the vast majority. No, it's safe to say the majority, all of it, is going to air on Paramount Plus.

The question is, will they air the first hour on CBS or a chunk of it like they did this past weekend? That remains to be seen. But if you've got Paramount Plus, you're good to go. Obviously, that's what they want to build. That's where the money is, all that stuff and more. A lot of talk about the making of this card. And so let me tell you about everything I know.

The UFC, they were telling us after the January show, they were really going to get into it. And that's accurate. The January 24th show. And things really started to heat up over the last, I would say, two weeks or so. The UFC, and I stress the UFC, 100% negotiated. with John Jones to be a part of this card. Now, Dana White has said on Saturday, after Zufa boxing

on Sunday, I didn't speak to him, I didn't want him on. And I can tell you, Dana White isn't the one speaking to his lawyers, to his team, he's not. There are other people speaking, and there are other people negotiating. And the fact of the matter is, they did speak to John Jones' team

about him fighting Alex Pereira on this card, and in the end, They couldn't come to terms on a deal. Without getting too into the numbers, John Jones wanted something similar to what he was offered last year to fight Tom Aspinall. They were more comfortable with something similar to what they gave Connor Ben very recently. I know not their money, but like I'm talking the numbers here. And that was the impasse.

And so when John Jones said about 10 or so days ago, I'm negotiating with the UFC, he was being honest. They weren't just talking to themselves. His team wasn't talking to a wall. He was talking to people who are authorized to make fights in the UFC. Now, perhaps if you want to get into the semantics, okay, we make a fight, we come to an agreement, and then we bring it to the boss man and he decides. That's what he told us, right?

They were making fights. They were throwing out bait, and then they brought it to me to pick and choose who's going to be on the card. They 100% spoke to him and his team about fighting on this card. They couldn't come to terms. That's 100% of fact. And Dana White has said on Saturday and he said on Sunday, we absolutely did not talk to him.

I didn't want him on. That's not true. There were people in the company who are very much in positions of power who are very much authorized to negotiate. Not just talk, negotiate. And they could not come to even the vicinity of where they both felt comfortable with the deal. And so once they came to that conclusion that they hit a massive roadblock, Cyril Gun was called to fight Alex Perra. We knew when Alex Pereira vacated that title,

that he was fighting, as I said, on the Monday after. He's either fighting, where I actually said it on the morning that I made that video and then again on the Monday after. He's either fighting John Jones or he's fighting Seril Garne for the interim title. They didn't strip Tom. That was the right thing to do. I don't have an issue with the interim belt. They just did an interim title for the lightweight title.

Like six, seven, eight months, which is when the title fight would have last been in October. This will be eight months later. I'm fine with that. And if anything, it only makes the Tom Aspinall return bigger. Perfect world. You do Aspinall versus Gone in London in March. But Aspinall has had multiple surgeries now. Now Eddie Hearn's saying it's been three.

when Pizzi was there was the double surgery apparently there's been one more we're going to get clarification on that now you've got Alex Pera in the mix if Alex Pera beats Cyril Gan Alex as interim champion who just won a belt in a third different

weight class interim or not going up against Tom is a much bigger fight than Tom versus Surreal even with the controversy because by the time this fight happens that controversy will feel like 10 years ago in the world of MMA So this is, other than John Jones coming back, actually good news for Tom Aspinall, in my opinion.

Because you're either getting a surreal gun who's now coming off a win over Alex Pereira or you're getting an Alex Pereira who's coming off a win over a surreal gun with another belt by his side. So I'd say this is good news for Tom who's searching for big fights, big moments, things to get him excited. Once they couldn't come to terms with John Jones, and again, they 100% negotiated, they were just very far apart, they decided that they were going to go without prayer versus a real gun and there was a time where that was the main event there was a time where that was the main event for the white house card they were hoping to have multiple title fights on this card never the seven eight nine

whatever the hell Donald trump said and they alluded to that was never the case two three max max max there was a hope that Kayla harrison versus Amanda nunez would be on there but obviously Kayla Harrison is coming off of neck surgery, not that long ago, January to June, five months, it became clear later in this process that it's just not going to happen. And that's not something that you come back from quickly. It's a huge bummer. I feel for her. I know that that's what she wanted more than so much. I mean, she's at dinner with them. She's a two-time Olympic gold medalist. It would have been incredible to cap off her career with that. But unfortunately, the man upstairs has had other plans and you just can't risk fighting, especially someone like Amanda Nunes,

but anyone with a surgically repaired neck that is not fully healed. So that became a moot point. So we needed another title fight for this card. Mid last week, Ilya Tuporia gets the call. I had been checking in repeatedly throughout this whole process, basically from the January 24th card up until last week. Are they asking Ilya? Are they asking Ilya? Are they asking Ilya? Are they asking Ilya? Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Mid last week, they finally reach out with two questions. What are you more interested in?

Ilya Tuporia versus Islamachev or Ilya Tuporia versus Justin Gaci. What interests you more? And oh, by the way, this one's at 170, this one's at 55. Well, guess what Ilya said? per my sources. Give me Islam. I'm going up to 170. Okay, good to know. Thank you very much. That was it. So I've seen the reports from Marca and I want to give a shout out to their reporter

who's been writing a lot about this, Irrati Prat. I've seen the reports about Ilya and Islam and they deserve credit for talking about that first. But according to my sources, that fight was never done. the furthest it got was Ilya saying, I'm in. And them saying, all right, we'll get back to you. As of Friday, there was no fight involving Ilya to this White House cart.

None whatsoever. You heard this from Justin Gaichi himself. It only started late Friday night into early Saturday. That's when they really got into it. And they found out late in the week that Islam was not going to be available. Dana White revealing yesterday that he's dealing with a hand injury. You may recall last week, his manager, Ali Abdel Aziz, saying, we've got something big in the works. I do believe he was referring to this.

But for whatever reason, they came to the conclusion that he can't fight on June 14th. So once it became clear that he couldn't fight on June 14th, they turned their attention to making the Ilya versus Justin Gai Chi fight card excuse me fight Ilya wanted Islam Ilya wanted to move up truth be told

Ilya is about that freaking life he wanted the biggest freaking test possible he wanted to move up to 170 to fight Islam Chatshav and that would have been the main event of the White House card but once it got time

once the dust settled then they're like okay this is what we have this is what we don't have this is what we have Islam was no longer available So they never even like negotiated about the Islam fight. So the notion that it was there and it was off isn't exactly accurate, if that makes sense. Then they got into Ilya versus Justin. And then they came to a deal mid-Saturday.

So like when Dana White was doing media last week saying the fight card was done, it was not done, far from done. Justin Gaichy on the UFC podcast said, I had no idea. I had no idea until Saturday that I was. was on this card. And he's 100% telling the truth. And even Dana White himself said that he was telling the truth yesterday. So he's playing semantics with the John Jones thing. And he's playing semantics a little bit with the Islam thing. With the John Jones thing, he's saying, we didn't talk to him this and that. He didn't talk to him. He didn't negotiate. Other people did. Very much so. And then he came back after people were saying like, oh, John was upset. He's like, no, no, no, no, I never said we didn't

thought we talked to everybody. No, no, no. They talked, they negotiated. They were very far apart. Ilya and Islam was the top choice once they realized there was no John. And that's what I presume that's what Islam wanted as well. He just can't fight. I don't think he ducked or any of this nonsense. Just can't fight, not healthy, whatever the case is. So then they went to Justin. And then there was a debate as to what should headline? The heavyweight fight? the Ilya fight. And in my opinion, they made the right call. The Ilya fight has to be the headliner.

Has to be the headliner. Ilya is one of the biggest stars in the sport, and that's an undisputed title fight as opposed to an interim title fight. Let's not get into all of that all over again, the same mistake that we made back in January. But there was talk of making the main event the interim heavyweight title fight. I don't think that was going to fly with Ilya, to be quite honest. And so in the end, it's Ilya as the main event

against Justin Gaichi. Gaichi gets the opportunity. He was this close to not. And Alex getting surreal gone. So this is why, as I said to you last week, there was talk of Islam fighting Ian Gary in April. And then there was some talk of the Michael Morales stuff. It was never, the reason why they didn't go with the Ian fight

is because they were trying to see if they can make this one. now we'll wait and see how long he's out for and if they go back to doing that. Ian was the one that was the frontrunner. Everything he said was accurate. But once the dust settled about who's available, who's not, they turn their attention to making this super fight, if you will. Connor McGregor was never seriously in talks to fight on the White House card. He was not.

What they want is for Connor McGregor to fight on International Fight Week. They actually are speaking today, as Connor McGregor said, on the smash cast podcast with Ian Parker and Shell Sunnan. Will they get that done? Will they get that done? As I said exactly a week ago, my faith in this regime of getting big fights done dwindles by the day. I set you when talking about John Jones versus Alex Pura. What did I say? It's right there.

But I don't have faith that they will do what needs to be done to make the fight happen. And what happened? They didn't do what needs to be done to make the fight happen. All this arthritis talking is nonsense. Absolute nonsense. He was ready to go. And now you got Connor McGregor. And by the way, the best way to combat the sort of apathy that has come as a result of this fight announcement is to say,

and oh, by the way, a month later, you've got the return of the Mac. Are they going to do what's right by him? Because this is not going to be an easy negotiation. What are they going to do about the paper viewpoints about his fight contract? Two fights left. Who are they going to fight? They did talk about Carlos Prachis. That is true. And my understanding is he said, sure, let's go.

And then they went in a different direction. So who are they going to do? Are they going to sign Nate Diaz to fight him? Are they going to bring someone else to fight him? Are they going to try to give him the worst possible matchup to kill him off, to build someone else off of his name? I think that would be a mistake. You need Connor at this point. Connor sells subs. Connor's the only proven

pay-per-view commodity left on the roster. Why would you try to kill him off? The process fight made no sense. You're going to make him fight a pretty big 170-pounder who's much younger in a fight that has no heat behind it. The Chandler fight makes all the sense. The D.S. fight makes all the sense.

So they're meeting today. Do we have faith that they'll be able to pull this off? I still don't understand. Jones fights right there. You don't want to pay fine. That's what, when they kept talking about 60 million and 60 million, I was like, oh, it's right there. They're telling us that they're not going to make

the Conner fight on. the White House. They're telling us that they're not going to make the John Jones fight on the White House. They keep talking about how like 60 million, 60 million, meanwhile, they're rolling in dough every other day of the week and they're going to get massive business associated with being on the White House lawn. Massive. But they didn't want to make it happen. The problem is when you come out and say that and it's not necessarily the truth, you run the risk of pissing people off. and I think John Jones is pissed off

because on Sunday morning we wake up to the news or the deleted tweets from one John Jones who was working through it here you go I'm released from the UFC he's saying that because someone said

is at the end of John Jones's career and Dana White said yeah let's go if I would prove him wrong would I be wrong or would a bigger man be remaining silent I'll be the fall guy, sure. Make this make sense. So all of this negotiating was complete bullshit.

Is that what you want me to agree to publicly? Man, how fucking painful. Laying in my bed, wrapping my head around this perception, all I can think is how effing painful? And then the other half of me is like, but is it really, though? I'm brother as F, but do not lie on me. And then he went on IG Live, and he had this to say. I'm so pissed off

There you go He's pissed off And by the way Yesterday at the Zufa Boxing Press Conference Dana White was asked About these tweets Saturday he says He's not in the running

It's complete nonsense He was in the running They were negotiating Sunday he's asked about it And here's how he sort of clarifies But doesn't I don't know if you saw But this morning

John Jones went on a bit of a Twitter tirade And then you ended up deleting them Have you seen his comments He basically very heavily pushed back on you saying that there were no negotiations. I never said there were no negotiations. I never said that. I said, were they talking to John Jones? They talked to everybody.

Everybody was talked to. Not one word of what I said was not true about the whole John Jones thing. And how many times have I sat up here and said, he's not fighting at the White House? No. And have you guys not all? seen the video of the dude with the meta glasses on when he didn't know he was being filmed telling him that his hips are fucking shot and he needs hip replacement. Did you not see the videos of him running on the flag football game? And what did I say that wasn't true? It was all true.

And you guys all bust my balls about how much I love John Jones and John's, you know, John's the greatest of all time. No way in hell John Jones is going to be booked for the White House card. It wasn't going to happen. But the matchmakers, while talking to everybody, seeing what was possible, and they brought me every possible fight that could be made. So you're trying to tell me that the matchmakers were out there, and Hunter Campbell was out there negotiating with people only for the fight to never be in consideration?

Like, they're really going to go through that process, that pain to negotiate, especially with a star as big as John Jones, only for it to be a useless proposition. Really? Come on. That would be a waste of everyone's time. Just to prove, as another example as to that not being true, back on February the 20th, there was a post from an account called op.m.m.a that posted Gan versus Pereira as a potential fight at the White House. And Dana White's Instagram account replied with that, with that girl's face.

Saying like, I guess, nah? It's like the skeptical. Yeah. Well, guess what? You know why he said that? Because they were negotiating with John Jones. Because John Jones was in the running to fight on this card. That's why.

And oh, by the way, that was before Alex Pereira vacated the title and all this stuff. So John Jones, in my opinion, John Jones has every reason to be upset. In my opinion, John Jones is worth $30 million. If Connor Ben, with all due respect, is getting 15 to fight Regis Progray in a catchweight fight John Jones is worth 30 and Connor McGregor is worth 75

if that's the market value now if that's the ceiling then them dudes are worth a hell of a lot now and because of everything they did over the past 10 years or so like Connor Ben John Jones ain't the same as far as drawing power I'm sorry and as far as resumes

So what they've done now is that's the new number Because all these fighters, the top ones are saying, wait a second And they're saying, yeah, you can have that number too. But the problem is they all know that they're way bigger stars. So I think they took these guys for fools or something like that Because I can guarantee you they're going to come with that number to Connor McGregor And he's going to be like, what? Are you kidding? I get almost tell you, I'm not even in the meeting and I can tell you this is going to happen.

I mean, I think Connor Ben himself would it would would agree with me. Would he not? Just in terms of what they've done and who they are and their track record and drawing power. So John Jones, not happy. Is this the end? I don't know. He can't walk away and fight on Netflix. I mean, could you imagine it would be gigantic and I know they would pay him a lot, but he's got a fight contract and he's got multiple fights left on it. And that's just the problem that a lot of these guys are facing. They've got multiple fights left and there's no end. It's not like an NFL contract or an NBA contract that it's either like you're playing for this amount of time and if you're injured or out or whatever once that time is up you're a free man it's it's it's

it's not that way it goes by the number of fights and there's a select few that have a term of that term is so far away that it makes it almost impossible to get out and so it's not like he's just going to cross the street and go somewhere else the ilia islam thing is super interesting and and and I do think that they could have gotten there, but in the end, he was unavailable and they had to pivot. And so in the end, the reaction to this fight card

has been met with a lot of complaints and booing and hissing, and I got a lot of people mad at me for saying it was a nine out of ten. And so allow me to explain, the nine out of ten was based on what I knew they had to work with. What I knew

this regime could do and pull off what I expected. And maybe that was unfair. Maybe I was coming from a place of like inside knowledge. Because I totally understand, by the way, why the fans are saying, what? This is a four. This is a five. This is not the sphere on steroids.

This is not the greatest fight card of all time. This is a very good card. To me, in the year 2026, given the cards that we've gotten as of late, I think this is a very good card. This is an A card. having Pereira and Toporia on the same card is not something that we typically get. That's a big deal. Is it UFC 100?

Is it UFC 200 before the John Johnson? No, it's not. But for 2026, it's big time stuff. The problem is, there's a couple problems. You told us it was going to be the greatest card of all time. You told us that we're going to be seven to eight title fights on the card. And you told us it was going to be the sphere on steroids. And honestly, regarding that one, what I think he meant by that was just like the production, what goes into it.

But nevertheless. And then the biggest problem is the two biggest stars on the fight card, Ilya to Poria and Alex Parra, aren't fighting the guy that we want them to fight. And that's just the facts. We want Ilya to fight Islam or Armin, and we want Alex to fight John. And so it feels like a letdown. They are great fights in a vacuum. but it, the theme of the UFC now is you're giving us one half of what we want. It's always one half.

Yeah, Patty's fighting for the interim belt, but it's not against the guy that we want. And by the way, we would have been getting Ilya versus Patty at the White House. Had he beaten Justin Gitchie, but Armand's right there. Armands at the freaking fight on Saturday. He's there. He's ready to go. He's healthy. He's in handcuffs.

And you're not giving us the fight. Interim belt or not, you're telling me you'd rather Ilya versus Justin over I get that Ilya versus Islam is the biggest fight. For me, not that far off is Ilya versus Armin. Not that far off given how great Armin has been as of late. But we're getting the Justin fight

which is going to be a fine fight but you're also risking the fact that like let's just think about this at the end of this broadcast on the White House lawn with this regime the make America great again regime maybe or maybe not in the midst of a war.

We are looking at a scenario in which a Georgian slash Spaniard is standing on the White House lawn with his hand up, putting a rose on the ground with another dude from America knocked out cold on the canvas. Obviously a million things can happen,

but you're telling me, you don't think that could happen? And you're telling, like, this ain't exactly what they wanted. There's a reason why they came to Ilius so late because I think Jones versus Pereira checked off all the boxes. Jones was a big time fight

involving the best American with the best option with the best opportunity to win in the main event. I would love to have heard those talks. They will not admit this. They will swear up and down

that it's not true. This has to be a celebration of America. It is for America's 250th birthday. It's called Freedom 250. You think they want to celebrate a Spanieler? slash Georgian in the main event of this fight card? There's no way. They just had no other choice.

It was either that. Roll the dice that the American wins. And now you've got an all-time moment or you've got a Brazilian and a Frenchman fighting in the main event. Tough. That is tough. And I don't mean the good kind of tough. Now, any other arena, it's great. And so I'm just looking at this like, oh, okay, they got Pereira to agree. They got Ilya to agree.

That's a nine out of ten. I got a lot of people mad at me for that one. How dare you? For the first time in a long time, I was called a UFC bootlicker. Could you imagine that? People are mad. People are very mad about this fight card. You're not being asked to pay $75, by the way.

But they are mad. They are offended. Like, I don't remember the last time I felt this type of apathy, this type of malaise, this type of anger towards the product. I don't remember it. I do not remember the last time people felt this way. It felt like they were bait and switch. felt like there wasn't that like sort of, I don't know, that that connection with the product. Didn't help, by the way, that the 326 fight card was a little com si comsat and the main event,

the BMF title fight was the antithesis of what we think the BMF title fight should look like. So you couple that sentiment with the White House reveal and I feel a lot of that apathy. Let me bring in the guys here and talk about some of these things that I've been. been talking about. Hello, boys. P-T on a post-Pay-P-Rew Monday? What the fuck is going on here? It was just that big.

He had to come. Wow. This is it. I didn't even ask him. I didn't even ask him. I didn't even ask him. I actually don't know if any of us asked him. He just showed up in the Zoom room.

Yeah, that's right. I don't know. I went on X and I was like about an hour and now before I have to log on. And there are you is talking about Francis and Ghana. I was like, shit. They told me three times that the clocks were going back. Post-paper-view Monday. You've told us no post-paper-view Monday.

Yeah, we weren't even expecting you. 20 minutes on my out, guys. I have 20 minutes. That's it. All right. Well, maybe we can make a charity. Yeah. $2 million for the kitchen scrap.

There it is. Rick, your reaction to Islam, Ilya. Would have been massive, right? Like, obviously, Islam, Ilya was the fight that fans have been clamoring for years now, right? It was Tom and John and Islam and Ilya. It would have, I think that would have dragged. Just that one different opponent for Ilya Taboria would have drastically altered the sentiment that I'm seeing from fans about this card. And it would have been, it's number one versus number two pound for pound.

We haven't had it since Volk and, Vulcan Islam. Like, it would have been very big. G.C., you're in contact with the people. You're the newest fan, so you're probably the least jaded of all of us. What do you make of the reaction to all of this? It's kind of what I expected, unless they were able to get a Connor McGregor, John Jones on the fight card. I said it a few weeks ago to Rick on Boys in the Back. We discussed is Ilya Taboria versus Justin Gaci a main event worthy fight for the White House card?

And I said getting I'ma Teporea on the card is huge, but I think that fans will view it as a letdown because we're not getting a Connor McGregor or John Jones on this card. I think if they had done Ilya Islam, it would have been massive, but similar to UFC 300, similar to the sphere, it's almost the exact same thing. It's like a blueprint for these massive specialty fight nights. They tell us they're going to be the greatest cards ever. It's a love letter to Mexico. It's going to blow your socks off. You know, from top

to bottom, we got former champions fighting at the beginning and then ultimately we get to themselves. Negotiations break down. Fighters aren't available. Whatever may happen. And we get left with a good to great card, but it is viewed as a massive disappointment because of the way that the UFC hyped it up. So

it being a disappointment of the fans is not all surprising to me, and that feels like the overwhelming sentiment. Everyone that I have talked to, friends, family, co-workers here have been like, man, some White House card, eh? And I can't lie, when I saw it, when I finally saw that Freedom 250 graphics show up on the pay-per-view on Saturday night, I was sort of like, ah, okay, here it is. This is the card. I loved watching you guys react to it, because that kind of said it all. There was so much excitement, there was so much hope and promise and then as the clip just kind of goes on and on, you just see hope and promise and excitement dwindle over time. But again, could you imagine if this was like,

PZ, imagine this was like UFC 328 in Miami, we'd be saying this is the best fight card of the year. But it's because of everything else. Yeah. It is the best. It will be the best fight card of the year. I just guess. I just thought, right, what became obvious to me after our conversation on the post-foy show directly after the pay-per-view on Saturday was, like this is UFC's fastball now. And I guess I just thought it was faster. That's what I'm having trouble getting my head around. I think they have become what they thought the problem with boxing is.

They have fights where they have a superstar there. And as you mentioned, as I mentioned on Saturday, it's not quite the fights that we wanted. I really hope you're right. I really hope this kind of provokes them into proving us wrong and booking those big fights for it down the line. But it's not a. a good sign. It's also, like, it also made me just seeing this John Jones stuff and seeing Dana talk about him at the press conference after the Apatioia fight and him kind of saying, like, look at how he's running. Look at the guy you recorded him saying he had bad hips.

It kind of reminded me of what Tom Aspinall said when I did the written piece for ungrounded, and he was kind of like, we're all so replaceable. This guy, Dana White believes is the greatest fighter of all time. He went to bat for him so many times. And now he's like, look, he can't even run properly. Like, what would we want this going in the card? It's, it doesn't bode well, and I hope this kind of spurs them on to to make those big fights for it down the line, but as

you said, I probably shouldn't get my hopes up at this stage. I was, I was just going to ask that. Go ahead, go ahead. I think there's something fair that fans are reacting to, and then I think there's something unfair. Let me start with unfair. If they gave their best effort to make Islam Makachov versus Ilya, it's hard for me to then look at this and go,

man, disappointing. That's unfortunate, right? They got snake bitten there. They tried to make the fight that everybody has been clamoring for, and I think they deserve some credit for that. Now, look, the result is the result, and we have to live with what the fight card is. But if, according to you,

they gave their effort to make that fight, I give them a little bit of bail there. Here's the part that I think is fair and where I would go. If you could not get Connor, and you could not make Ilya versus Islam, By the way, it wasn't, could not get Connor, never tried to get Connor. If you're not in the business of putting Connor McGregor on this White House card, and you could not make Ilya versus Islam for one reason or another, again,

I'm saying, you know, this is not their fault in that scenario. But if you are faced with that scenario, pay John Jones, whatever he's asking for. That's where I can't be fair to them. That's where I can't say, I excuse it. The biggest fight they could have made was still available, and it sounds like the negotiations are the reason why I fell apart, John versus Alex would have made this a completely different card and people would have been much happier. And so that's where I remove the bail that I'm giving is if you're in that scenario, right?

And it's not your fault that Islam was not the opponent for Iliad Soporia. Then you give John whatever he's asking for. I think that they were going to be comfortable with a scenario of Alex Cyril, Kayla, Amanda. I think that they wanted another title fight and once Amanda and Kayla wasn't available, they added Ilya to the fight card. I don't know about this. What fell off? Nonsense, nonsense, nonsense. And so we looked at a situation where John Jones was available, where Connor McGregor was available, and for a very long time until Saturday morning, Ilya was available and they were not booking any of them for this card.

Whoa. And to me, like, are you in the business of making big fights or not? Connor McGregor was on this smash cast with Ian Parker and Shell Sunnan. And he said a whole bunch of stuff, but there was one thing that he said that was very astute about the state of fighters in the relationship with the UFC,

which I thought was spot on. Here's what he had to say. You want me to get... Gates and secondary sales. They don't usually put me on UFC 200s or 300th or the sphere. They usually put me on UFC 201

or 3.01. You know, like a double sale thing. The White House is going to hit no matter what. Who the fuck gives the fuck who we put on it? And then Will McGregor out for the second one.

So we double our economy. economic take. We can't decide what these men do, you know, and I don't want to. They, you know, I don't doubt them. I just, it's like in this current climate, we're all cattle, yeah? All these fighters were all cattle. I just happened to be a free range. I'm like wag you walking around the fucking farm. He's 100% right. Could you imagine Anthony Joshua, Terence Crawford, Shakur Stevenson, Alexander Usig saying, ah, they won't put me on the date that I want. Could you imagine? But he's 100% right. They put him on to a two. They never put him on the big one anymore. They wouldn't put them on during the pandemic. And it's

exactly what I kept saying about the White House. They're not going to put him on there. They'll put him on the next one, the International Fight Week one, because you can sell tickets to his fight. You can't sell tickets to him fighting at the White House. We're all cattle. And I just happened to be the Wagyu, and he's right. Are they going to want to pay Wagyu prices for him, though? Because I think that they are very happy not. We're living in an era where some of the greatest fighters of all time are living and breathing, and they're like, thanks, but no thanks. We don't want to book you. Like her or hater, Ronda Rousey said, I want to come back, and they said, thanks, but no thanks. Could you imagine that? Remember at the beginning of last year? No, beginning of this year, I said,

we could be staring at a scenario in which Ronda, John Jones, Connor McGregor are all fighting in the year 2026 in the UFC. Rhonda, John Jones. Who's next? What has happened? What has happened? What has. happened. And so that's why, I guess I gave it the nine out of ten. So I was like, all right, well, you got Ilya, because I wasn't expecting that. And you got Alex at heavyweight, and you got Sean, but not in the fight that everyone wanted Sean, including Corey Sanagan, like, Corey Sanagan was there begging. And I feel like most people wanted that Corey Sandigan fight. And with

all due respect to Amen, it's the bigger fight. It's the bigger fight. There's no doubt about it, plus it's America versus America. Bo was obviously going to be on there. And then there's the random Diego Lopez versus Steve Garcia fight? I know what happened was rhetorical, but I do feel like the most cogent, the most clear, the most precise answer I've heard about any of this was Ronda Rousey talking to Jim Rome

and explaining what happened to the UFC, which is that they are a for-profit business and they are no longer in the business of making the best fights or the biggest fights or the fights or the fights that cost the most money. They are worried about the bottom line only. And so if it costs that much to get Connor McGregor or Rhonda Rousey or John Jones, but they can get 60% of it for one-tenth the price, they will do that. And so, because that's going to be more profitable for them. That's going to lead to more return. That's going to allow them to lower their

costs. And they will continue to do that. And it is a new world. And the fact that there's no more pay-per-view points for anybody is going to help them, right, because they don't have to pay that out. but it is going to be difficult to court Connor McGregor, who is primarily a pay-per-view star, who is responsible for the biggest pay-per-views in MMA history and one of the biggest paper views in boxing history, one of the biggest paper views ever, to pay his salary, to pay what he's worth for a fight, is going to be extremely difficult if you're the UFC because you're not in that business anymore, as Ronda Rousey laid out. She just opened the curtain on this thing and laid it out as perfectly as possible.

They are McDonald's. They are just popping out low-quality hamburgers, and we're eating them, and that's fine. But they are not a gourmet shop anymore, and it's just unfortunate. And you know what's so funny? G.C., you know what's so funny? I saw everyone celebrating the end of the ESPN deal, and now I see, what did Paramount do to my sport, right? Isn't that amazing? What did Paramount?

And what did we say when they got rid of pay-per-view, the pressure to make the big fights would not be there? So what kind of a great? We're already mid-March. We're already approaching the end of the... of quarter one. How's it going so far? How's the product? Yeah, in my opinion, it's going horribly. I think this announcement coupled with UFC 326, which was not a great card, and ended however you feel Charles dominated, everything like that, grappling, go watch kickboxing, whatever you want to say, it was not an entertaining fight, and when you're holding up these

cards, 326, not even for an undisputed title, is for the BMF belt, with this massive main event, Charles versus Max, and that's what it delivers from an entertainment value. You start seeing fans getting more and more disappointed with the outcome of the sport. You get this announcement. I'm no businessman, but what you guys are saying, you know, they're for profit, everything like that, to me it feels you're looking at a short-term opportunity for profit, because for the first time ever, I'm going on Twitter and I'm seeing think pieces about what's happened to the UFC. The product is down more than I've ever seen it in the history of the sport. And it kind of feels like that when you're watching the fights themselves. The best part about

the sport right now is the drama behind the scenes. Whether it be with Dana and Eddie, you know, making this White House card happen, it feels like the drama is what's delivering, not the fights themselves. And now we're hearing, yeah, they just didn't pay John Jones, so he's not going to fight.

They didn't pay Ronda Rousey, so she didn't come back to the UFC. Connor White, or Connor McGregor is negotiating with Dana White today. Are we ever going to see him fight in the UFC? And if they're not making these fights, the fans will slowly trickle out, in my opinion, at least,

and they won't make these profits that they're making right now. 100%. It may not affect them today because they're still living off the ESPN, they're still living off the pandemic era. But in three, four, five years, they're going to be staring at a much different company, in my opinion. If they're not careful, if we keep getting fight cards, numbered events like we got this past weekend, where we were talking on the group chat, like all of this feels very insignificant. All of this feels very unimportant. And I'm sorry, you may sit there, and I know in one breath you'll call me a bootlicker for saying it was a nine out of 10. And then the other breath, depending on who you talk to you, you'll say you guys are just

negative nancies. If you grew up in the era that we grew up in, which wasn't that long ago, when I say grew up, like we weren't kids, we were covering the sport and you saw what the product was 10 years ago. And you're sitting there watching the UFC's debut on CBS and those are the two fights that they start with. You're like, what the hell? Like, what are we doing guys? You just not care? Because you could have dictated whatever you wanted to be on that CBS debut. And that's what you chose, that's what you chose. This is the numbered event that you chose to start with. Like, these are the fights that you chose. That main event was, was there's sport and there's entertainment. Charles O'Veara did what he had to do to win that fight. But if you're going to make a fictitious

belt that is sort of centered around this idea that you stand and trade, you point to the ground, it was abysmal. It was a disaster. It was an absolute nightmare. And he may have removed himself from the Connor talks. The whole thing was abysmal. You got people, you're selling people on the notion that this is for bad mother F for status. That's all they know. And they're told, wait,

this is it? I was told that one of the reasons why they wouldn't put certain fighters in BMF fights is because they didn't want grappling in those fights. Like, there's a certain standard. That's it. We're done with the BMF, right? Like, there's no way.

By the way, and thank God, because I hate it. I think it's dumb as hell. Charles O'Vare is the BMF champion. Iliate's Poirin knocked him out six months ago and you're expecting me to believe that he's the baddest mofo at 155. If they want BMF to be a thing, you make it open weight, no rounds, unlimited time. That's true BMF. Connor and John Kavana are 100% right. There can't be a weight class associated BF. That's never going to happen. So get rid of it. It was a nice little thing in 2019. It salvaged a pay-per-view or two in 2024 and 2025. get rid of it.

Because if Charles O'Varra would have won that fight as a main event or co-main event, no one I think would have been mad at him. That was exactly what he had to do against a guy who is one of the most beloved fighters in the history of the UFC. Who's now a black belt, by the way, in Jiu-Jitsu after that performance, which is a wild thing, which is an absolute wild thing. But of course, Max deserves to be a black belt. Like, I have no issues with it. It's just the timing's a little bit funny.

No one would really be mad about it. We should have retired it after UFC 300. When Max Holloway winning a fight against Justin Gachey decides to point at the ground and colds him in the best knockout we've ever seen in MMA history

you can't get higher than that there is no ceiling that BMF can reach beyond that it should have died that night and I think I said that at the time it should not have continued after that I have a very big problem guys at PC have a very big problem with the fact that's like Armand's available and you're refusing to book them

Connor's available and you're refusing to book them John is available and you're refusing to pay him Rhonda was available and you refuse to pay her This is not the way it should be You should be foaming at the mouth And praying to have these types of characters on your roster There's two questions that I think are very important I agree with you

There's two questions that I think are important You referenced like us fans who were there in the beginning We know that this is not up to snuff right I do wonder if the fans who are from the pandemic error or just getting into it, if they even know what they missed out on or can tell that this is a watered down product or even care, right?

I don't know that that's the case. And the second question is, are we going to hear Mark Shapiro get on a conference call and be like, numbers on Paramount Plus are better than we even thought they could be? And if that's the case, are they incentivized to do this? We can continue to beat our heads against the wall

and beg and beg and beg for them to try to make these fights, but they just might not be incentivized. They might be doing better than they've ever done. done and just continue to do this. Dana Whit was asked about the fighter pay yesterday because he was doing the Zufa boxing press conference. And the response is like, again, I don't know if he takes everyone for fools or if he's that out of touch or what it is.

But here's what he had to say regarding fighter pay. And it's just dripping with like, with, just conflicting statements with hypocrisy. And, you know, no one ever pushes back at these things. It's so frustrating to watch. Here's what he had to say. Well, listen, everybody, why is it a bad thing when guys make more money? You know what I mean? It's never a bad thing when guys make more money.

It's always a good thing when there's more money in sport. And since 2001, Fighter Pay has gone like this nonstop. Obviously, we just got, you know, a great television rights deal. I promise you that Fighter Pay is going to be just fine over the next seven years. Do you remember what he said when Francis Inganu said. signed that massive deal to leave. He's like, he didn't want big fights. He didn't want to be here. He wasn't happy for him for getting more money. Francis Ngano made $600,000 to fight Sir Al-Gan in his last UFC title fight. $600,000. That's what he made. When he left the UFC, was Dana

saying like, this is good for the business? Why aren't you happy for him? Same thing he's saying to Eddie Hearn. If you're really his friend, why aren't you happy for Connor Ben? Was Dana White happy for Francis and Ganu for going out and getting more money? Of course not. Is Dana White going to be happy when the fighters are like, wait a second, when Connor McGregor says, wait a second, where John Jones says, wait a second, you're paying Connor Ben $15 million? Pay me 30. Pay me 45, 75. No, of course not. The fighters are sitting around being like, oh, this is great. No, it's not great. Especially when this other entity that you have, the fighters are apparently getting way more. Jayopataya probably made more than Charles Overe and Max Holloway. To fight in front of three people at the apex on a Sunday night. To fight for a bell. that means nothing. As of right now, it could mean something in five years, but as of right now, it doesn't mean anything.

So to say like, oh, yeah, you should be happy. No, absolutely not. And that actually leads me perfectly to the Francis thing. I was blown away on Friday. Look, Francis and the PFL did not work out very clearly. The plan was not to have him fight once. As he told us recently, the term was coming to an end. The term was coming to an end this year.

So they had to get that fight in or the term was going to come to an end. That was the way his contract was structured. Now, important to remember a couple things. Number one, the people who signed Francis and Ghanu aren't there anymore. It's the previous regime. Don Davis, Peter Murray are gone. It's not this regime. It's not the Peter, excuse me, it's not the John Martin regime right now.

So number one, more often, look at the Miami Dolphins this morning. New regime comes in, Tua, thank you for your time, you're out. How often does this happen in sports? New regime comes in, old regime is out. Pizzi, what about Edu coming to Nottingham Forest? He says, hey, Nuno, don't like you, you're out. That's what happens. I don't know if Pizzi's still there, but you get the reference.

No, I'm still here. That is what happened. That is what happened. And now Edu's gone. Good riddance. Point is, Francis Nganu signed with an old regime. And now I'm seeing people say, what a failure. What a fumble.

They're telling me, like, I had anything to do with whatever he did. And by the way, if I did have something to do with it, I would take credit for it because my friends, Francis Nganu made, I don't know, I don't know if I'm good at math eight times more

outside of the UFC to almost beat Tyson Fury to get knocked out by Anthony Joshua and to be Henna Faheta. In what universe is that a fumble? He made tens of millions of dollars and is about to make a hell of a lot more on May 16th

to fight that guy. Where's the fumble? Now, if you want to be, want to talk about the PFL regime, the old regime, you know, biting off more than they can chew, overpaying. That's totally fair. But you're trying to tell, like, I even saw some managers saying, like, hey, another lesson. It ain't, it ain't that much better on the outside. Are you guys out of your mind? Are you just exposing yourself right now? The grass isn't always greener. I would say making like about 40 million. That's pretty green grass right there, if you ask me. What are you

talking about. There's no doubt from the Francis Angano perspective, there was no fumble, right? No doubt in my... It might have been a fumble on PFL's part. Yeah. You can assign certain like mistakes that were made if you're looking elsewhere, right? If you go, PFL made a mistake by giving Francis

this MMA deal while he seemed to have his eye on boxing. No problem. I'm totally okay with you saying that. Francis Ngano definitely didn't fumble. Here's where I think the fan sentiment comes from. The fan sentiment is coming from when Francis was on the way out the door, it seemed like we were going to get

Francis Ngano versus John Jones. And people were mad. People were mad. And Dana White was mad. And he was like, we make the big fights. Francis and Ganu didn't want the big fights. This was the narrative. At that time, it felt like that was something that made sense.

We're now years removed from that and it is very clear that the UFC doesn't make big fights anymore. The UFC is incapable of making the biggest fights. So if you're a fan who's holding on to that, right? If you're a fan that's holding onto a bygone era where the UFC did make these big fights and we got them, then I understand where you're coming from. But we can't talk out of both sides of our mouth. The UFC doesn't do that

anymore. There's no guarantee that Francis and Gano versus John Jones could be made in this modern era because they don't want to pay Francis and Gano or John Jones what it's worth to make that fight. So you can't act like Francis and Gano gave up years of fighting the best fighters because we don't have any clue who he would have fought. He could have been fighting a guy on 20 and 20 on, you know, fight nights, and we would have no idea, and we wouldn't be able to determine who he's actually going to fight.

So this idea that we prevent, like Francis Inganu gave up huge fights, or we don't get to witness big fights from Francis Inganu, at a time, I believe that. That time is over. Now, years later, I'm not confident that that's the case, actually.

And so Francis Inganu didn't fumble shit, and I'm not sure we actually lost anything out of Francis and Ganu because I don't know that they would have made a John Jones fight. I'm not sure. I don't know that they would have made a Tom Aspinall fight. I'm not sure. And so that is, the UFC is entering murky territory where they used to be able to fall back on that.

And the fans used to fall in line with that. We make the big fights. Do you? Have you? I don't know if that's the case anymore. I'm not sure about that. And we did get the Tyson Fury mega fight. And we did get the A.J.

Fight didn't go well for him the second time. First one did go well. And then Francis, timing is everything in this sport. And here's Turkey, needing a big fight. fight to kick off his venture and there's Francis Inganu, the lineal MMA heavyweight champion, ready and willing to fight Tyson Fury. And so that went great. And the plan wasn't to come back with Anthony Joshua, but it went so well that they convinced Joshua to do it for a boatload of money. And then we know how that went. And then the Henefahata fight was also in Saudi. His three fights

were in Saudi Arabia. They wanted to be in business with him because he was a big draw. And sure, I'm sure you could say like, oh, you paid a lot, you paid this. Absolutely. But how could that be a fumble on his part. His story, everything he's been through, where he's come from to where he is now, is unbelievable. And so yeah, now he's going to get another big check to fight on Netflix, on the biggest platform in the world, millions of people are going to watch. There's a very good chance that this Netflix card is going to be the most watched MMA card of all time, period, if it does what they hope it will do. Most watch MMA card, period, not most non-UFC, most watch MMA card, period. And now he's fighting on the card.

Where's the fumble? Now, I understand that there's a thing called fan sentiment, as Rick said, and some people might feel like, ah, this guy did this, he did that, he robbed us of this, he robbed us of that, but please don't expose how dumb all of you are. The name of this game is to make money. That's it. It's not to like, you know, get your jollies off on a Saturday night. It's to make freaking money.

It's not about legacy, it's not about belts, it's to make money. Just ask all these fighters who are approaching the end of their careers and are starting to come to the epiphany, they're like, hey, you know what? I actually didn't make as much as I thought I was making or should have made or was worth. And I'm certainly not making anywhere near. I just saw the, the Indianapolis Colts just signed a wide receiver that I've never heard of for like $100 million. I'm sure he's great. But like, these dudes are household megastars. Who's this guy that they signed, 100 something million for this wide receiver? You guys see this? Biggest contractor. What is it, Alex, Alec Pierce or whatever? Yeah, this dude. You're telling me,

Colts? What? And these fighters are going out there and risking their lives. And they're... Right, a thousand yards and six touchdowns last year. What the hell? This class. Really, really best player on the team.

What the hell? He literally had a thousand yards? 47 receptions, a thousand yards, and six touchdowns. It's crazy. That's like a... It's really good. It's like a decent wide receiver. Yeah, mid.

Malik Willis, though, backup quarterback for the Green Bay Packers. So for the Miami Dolphins Day Day for... 68 million for three years. Liberty legend. And these guys are looking at this and like, what? So you mentioned them having this realization. The sad part that we have to accept, though, is somebody like John Jones had that realization.

And then his smart decision was, I need to get that work. I need to get that money in order to fight. John Jones will regret the Tom Aspinall thing of last summer for the rest of his life. And now, yeah, but now he's trying to get that money back. He tried to make it again and he couldn't get that. He should never have turned that down.

He should never have turned that down. because he would have had that fight and he could have won, right? It was a- Oh, yeah. And then what happens after that? Now you're setting, or you just walk away as the guy who just beat the guy and you got 30 million. Like, why did you turn that down, man?

And by the way, like, he deserved it to fight Alex Pereira too. And I'm not saying that like, you know, $15 million is anything to sneeze at. But if you were going to pay him to fight Tom Aspinall last year, I understand the thinking, but we knew that they were never going to get back to that. And as I reported last year, like the Saudis got involved and all that stuff, they're not involved in this one. So he's going to regret that, unfortunately, for the rest of his life. And I hope it doesn't eat him up inside. That was a lot of money to just walk away from for some reason.

I don't know why. He's never quite talked about it. I mean, I guess he's talked about not being motivated and all this stuff. He really wanted to fight on that White House card. And so I don't know how this all plays out here. I really don't. But I just have never felt, look, I genuinely tried to come on this show and talk on all our shows about the exciting things. about the happy things. I want to peel back. I want to inform. I want to educate. I want to

introduce you to fighters. I've never felt this from the fans. And maybe that means that there's an opening now for someone to come in. Now it's going to be very hard for someone to come in because, let's be honest, a lot of these guys are tied up, a lot of them. When Elite XC made its run, when Affliction had its cup of coffee and overpaid for everyone, when Strike Force picked up the pieces from Elite XC. There was a Nick Diaz hanging out there, a Robbiexie. There was a Nick Diaz hanging out there, Bobby Loller hanging out there. Like there were guys hanging out that produced. There was a Dan Henderson to take.

There was a Melvin Manhuff here. Like there were names. Fador, of course, Andre Arlowski. There weren't that many of those guys. Like it goes back to the Francis fight announcement today. I understand Philippe Blenz is not a big name. I totally get that. I'm not going to sit here and defend him.

But I would just ask you like who else is there? Who else is there? Who is available at heavyweight? I wish they would have gone with Rico. That's his story to tell who is out there. You know what I mean? It's just, it's going to take time. If, if anyone wants to get into that business, if anyone wants to like actually, and I

would argue actually, it might even be easier to break through in that business than it is in the boxing business because like MVP, if MVP started an MMA organization today, this is kind of a one-off, at least what we've been told for now. Maybe we'll get more answers tomorrow. I don't have insight on that. But if they wanted to start an MMA organization today, like they announced we are starting MVPMMA, we've got 10 fights and blah, blah, blah, blah.

They could start, they can introduce a belt, they can introduce weight classes, they could do everything that people are fighting about in the world of boxing about what Zufa is doing and there would be no resistance whatsoever. Right? Like there's no restrictions. There's no Aaliyak, there's no history, there's no lineage, there's no sanctimony,

there's no nothing. So MMA is actually easier to break in in that regard. The problem is, where do you find, as Connor put it, the cattle? Where do you find the names? That's going to take a while. You need current UFC fighters who have name value to take a risk. Like we saw, you know, in a Bellator era where it was like Benson Henderson and Gaygar Musassi, you need people who are current UFC fighters and viable names and people still want to watch them fight to take a risk. And that risk is giving up some of the security that comes with fighting the UFC. right? It can be very good to fight in the UFC. When you're on a long-term deal with them and you're making good money, more money than you've made by far in your career to that point in MMA,

it can be very easy to get wrapped up in that. And then you're climbing the rankings. You might get a title shot at some point. It's a lot safer than it is to take a risk by going to an upstart promotion, right? If MVP decides to actually commit to MMA programming long term, that's an upstart. That's a brand new thing.

Even PFL is relatively new, right? We've seen WSOF have its time, and then it had the PFL and Bellator merger. Now it's this new regime with John Martin and the PFL. You would have to take a risk. And so it will require that if they want to get some of these names. But if they can offer the money, I do think there will be people that will take the risk. I think they have, like the reason to be excited about Francis and Gano signing for this Netflix card is exactly that. is okay, the fight is underwhelming against Lens.

There's no doubt about it. I agree with Ariel what he said. Not a lot of people out there, not under contract. The issue about the UFC and if this is the product now, and we spoke about earlier, if fans continue to be underwhelming, I know fans who are perfectly happy with this stuff and more power to them. But if they continue to turn people away from the sport and people don't start watching this product as much as they had hoped, there is no one really there to pick up the pieces.

You know, the UFC is, is the stuff. sport and they've made it that way and that's because of their outrageous success but if if this goes downhill and everybody's under contract to the ufc there's court cases going on right now about whether this is a monopoly or not we need someone that's able to challenge them and although this fight isn't great if you have francis and gan who working with you there is an ability to make massive fights because of who he is and i think that's that's that's why i feel positive about it let's talk about tom and Eddie Pizzi. I know you reacted on Friday and the boys reacted on Thursday as well, but now that we've had a few more days to digest it and looking forward to talking to him later in the show and of course

Eddie as well, what do you make of this? Do you think that this is the start of something? Dana trying to downplay it yesterday. In fact, let's play that and set the table and then I'll get your reaction. Here's Dana talking about Eddie Hearn. He was asked about Eddie Hearn being a rival of his. And now the new thing is, by the way, that he's calling him a manager. He's just he's simply a manager now, Eddie Hearn. He's nothing more than a manager in the fight game. He's not a promoter. He doesn't own

a billion dollar industry. He's just a manager. Here's what Dana had to say. It's curious what your thoughts are about Eddie Hearn, getting into managing and going after Tom Aspenall. And, you know, does that make relationships difficult? It's like a rival promoter plus a manager. Is he a rival promoter?

He's another promoter. I haven't seen a fucking rival anything. from Eddie Hearn or any of these other guys. He's a manager now. Who gives his shit? We deal with lots of different people. I wouldn't call Eddie Hearn a rival anything. Dana, going back to...

He's the manager. There's a fucking million of them, and we deal with them all. You know, have you ever heard, you know, us having problems with dealing with a manager? What is Eddie Hearn going to bring to the management table that we haven't seen in the last 25 years? No, nothing? crickets, nobody?

Yeah, I mean, first of all, he's not a manager. He is a promoter. He has signed this guy, and if you want to say he's Tom Aspinall's manager, fine. But like, what, just by signing him, matchroom boxing has now gone, you know, gone under. It doesn't exist anymore. What is that? The way he spins things and everyone just kind of eats it up in that room, I have to say. Like, he's asking you, he's asking you guys to challenge him.

He's begging you to challenge him, and you're not. You're not at least speaking up. You're trying to move on to the next thing. What's that? He deals with millions of managers. That's, he also said, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, he's like, you hear us talking about having issues with managers. They have issues with managers all the time.

There are guys that they've essentially blackballed from the business and said, we're not dealing with. Millions of them. I mean, there's, there's, maybe the, the best example is Ken Pavia, who had a nice little stable back of the day, 08, 09. And they were just like, if you're assigned to this guy, we're not talking to you. There was a time where they wouldn't talk to Malki. There was a time where they wouldn't talk to Lloyd Pearson.

There was a time where they wouldn't talk to Adiatar. These guys have fought through and have gained their trust and respect and all that stuff. But what? You have problems with managers all the time. And in fact, you tell fighters to go sign with other managers so that you can have positive dealings with them. This happens all the time. Or certain guys, certain fixers that can fix situations or, you know, sign a guy to a favorable deal. And so, Pizzi, Tom and Eddie is.

is quite the union. And they feel to a degree when you speak to Tom, when you speak to Eddie, when you speak to Andy, they're sort of cut from the same cloth. They're from the same neck of the woods. Like it feels like there's something here, right?

It feels like there's something here. But is it just, in your opinion, is this just like Eddie's going to get him some sponsorships? Because you know how it is. Eddie rings Hunter Campbell. He's like, let's talk. He could just say, go F yourself. We'll talk to Andy instead.

So what do you think happens? I think Andy's still going to be very involved but I will say just having been over there in February and seeing the press conference and watching them all the press, it was on a lot of press around that press conference I think the biggest thing for me is Tom is saying, I can't wait to get back in there.

And that is something I did not hear. Obviously, we knew that he was making attempts. We heard from the Padman who said he's trying, but it's just not happening. But ever since he got involved with Eddie, I'm hearing him say, I can't wait to get back in there. So I believe,

Eddie's correct in everything he's saying in terms of, I don't think Tom is a broken man, that's what Eddie's saying. But I do feel as though Eddie getting involved and getting in there and reminding him of who he is, has had a profound impact on everyone around the Aspinall team. And look, fair play to Andy. You know, for, if you listen to everything that everyone's saying here, Tom, Eddie, this is Andy, the guy, like, his manager pursuing these things. He's having these conversations.

Let's get this guy on board. And he's done a hell of a job from a guy who's never managed anyone in the UFC to manage the UFC heavyweight champion. And then, like, you know, he's obviously delegating now to Eddie. Like, let's get this guy involved. The thing about Eddie is he knows the UK market so well. And as I've said before on this show, Tom was reaching that level where he's on these BBC shows. He's on this mainstream kind of shows where you don't quite see MMA stars go. I think Eddie's going to take it to a new stratosphere because we've seen him do it so many times.

with Katie, Katie Taylor. Like from like the, the amateur success she was, she was a complete unknown to the larger sporting world. Look what he's done with her. Like, she's a household name all over the world. Anthony Joshua, obviously after the Jake Paul fight, he's everywhere. You were even remarking yourself, Ariel.

Like, this guy is everywhere because of this. I think it's a perfect union. And the difference between, as you asked me just there, the difference between Eddie Heron being told to fuck off on a phone call with Hunter Campbell and any other manager being told, told that is Eddie Hearn's going to be in front of 15 cameras the next day and he can't wait to tell them all about that. And that's a very different dynamic that the UFC is just not dealing with in this day and age. That's a great point. You know what was refreshing about it all? To see someone of Tom Statcher, an MMA fighter, a UFC champion, and especially Tom, who's had to sit there and listen to his promoter, demote him and talk about how it's no big deal and he had a little procedure and all that stuff. It was fucking nice to see Tom like get his flower. You know what I mean?

Like to see someone talk about Tom, like this is the baddest mofo. Get your mojo back. You're the freaking man. You're the face of the fight game. You're the guy that this whole thing, you look like a freaking tank out there. But you're the nicest guy in the world. Like, it was nice to see a fighter being talked about by a promoter that way. I know in this regard he is not the promoter.

But we know who Eddie Hearn is. And to see him talk about Tom in that way. Like, honestly, honestly. And I don't know what it is. You know Tom. I know Tom. We make no bones of the fact that we like the guy very much. like his family very much.

When is the last time you heard Dana White sit up there and be like, this guy is generational. This guy, like, I can't wait to see him again. Look at what he did for us at MSG. He saved that cart to fight Sergei Pavlovich. Look what he did in the middle of the night. Leon Edwards didn't do that. This guy did. This guy has fought everyone and has smoked them.

And there was a stretch where he was beating guys in two minutes and two seconds. A record. He was disposing guys in two minutes and two seconds. Not two rounds, two minutes. He's disposing it. He's built like a tank. he's a gentle giant he's the pride of a nation

when has he ever said any of this it's all just like yeah yeah he's good and then so to see him sitting up there and you kind of like felt him growing a little bit right like you kind of felt like absolutely in front of your eyes that was nice and by the way if that's if that's the most

that he brings to the table at the very least it's freaking worth it right because he's gonna look at all look at all the media he did on Friday and look he's going to put him on this. He's already putting him on his own broadcast. He'll get him on talks board. He'll get him doing this, that, and you'll tell him do this, don't do that, say this, don't say that. I will speak to you. I will speak for you. I will speak on your behalf. I will big you up

at every, like, no one does it better than him. I'm sorry, you're kidding yourself if you say anyone does it better than him. And so at the very least, this was worth it. Whatever they're paying him, at the very least, whatever the cut is, I should say. It's not like a salary thing. I thought it was a great move on Tom's part. And in the end, it also said, like, I'm my own man. Oh, oh, what's going to happen? Eddie's at odds with the UFC right now. And you don't believe for a second that, you know, Dana's going to be like,

Dana's saying he's just a manager who cares. Like, obviously he's annoyed by it. That's very clear. Now, I would never sit here. I would never sit here and say signing with Eddie is the same as Connor Ben signing with Zoufa. No, no. I mean, that's crazy talking. That's crazy. It's not one for one. We have to be honest. It's not one for one.

Connor Ben is now fighting for them. Tom Asperall cannot fight for him. So yeah, it's a nice little move. It's a shot. I get it. It's fun. It's fun for us, most importantly. But I understand why he did it. But let's not say, like if this was a scoreboard, the score is not tied. Signing Connor Ben away from match room was way bigger than signing a commercial advisory deal with Tom Aspinall. It's a nice little move that none of us saw coming. Eddie is hinting at more moves to come and Dana's hitting at more moves to come. It's the best story in sports.

It's great. Combats, it's the best. And I can't get enough of it. And I can't wait to talk to Eddie about it. It's like they were so kumbaya for all those years and now the gloves are off. I mean, you can't stop calling him a P word. I actually feel, honestly, I laughed at it,

but I actually feel like we're moving towards an actual fight here. I feel like this is a real thing. No, stop it. I feel like it's a thing. No, chance. It just loved the bearable. This is not a good. I was riveted, right, but all the things we could, we could bring up about, like, Dana, like, oh, he said this during the press comments, I was like, fucking great crack, you know, keep going. This is great.

It's great. Like, I am here for it. I don't agree with what he's saying some of the time, but I'm still like, nice to see Dana just fucking going at it again, you know, like with the bit between his teeth. Yo, even at the presser yesterday, it's a much different guy than the presser Saturday. Oh, like, he's so excited about the IBF that he's sparring with. He's talking about the per diems here. He's talking about Eddie there. He's talking about the other.

Like, oh, Dana at the Zuba Boxing Pressers is as close to 2016 Dana as we're getting. It's magic. At the UFC press conferences, it's like, I don't know. What's the meme? I don't know. He's, the energy level is like negative 10. The meme is him doing Instagram live. That's right.

It's going to be Alex Piera. Yeah. Serial gone. now Majunis. That's the fights. All right. Yeah. We'll see you guys tomorrow for slap.

Yeah. Oh, we got, so I'm on my way to slap. Do you hear him saying that? Yeah. Do you hear him saying? He described a verb. He was talking about a situation between him and Colin Walsh. And he was like, me and Colin Walsh were power slap in the other night. Oh.

That's what it is. I thought you were going to bring up the feet comment. The feet comment was something else, wasn't it? He knows a good pair of feet when he sees them, apparently. Fair play. Five out of five on Wiki feet. Wow. Is that a real thing?

So yeah, I'm here on my work computer in the office. Sure, sure. I typed in WikiFeed and I immediately was like, oh, fuck, I should not be on this site. Who's to check? Period. Nonetheless, at work. Wow, wow, wow, wow. So what is it?

It's just like a Wikipedia for feet. I only saw the homepage and it was riddled with feet. Is it men and women? I only saw female feet, but I was, yeah, it was me. I was out of that. And is five the highest number you can get? I can't speak. And what do he say?

We need to do more research, me. Come on, man. Come on the show. I need a private computer. Ain't that what journalism is? Come on. There was an opening. Ain't that what journalism is?

Yeah, that is. Here you are again talking about things you don't know. Jesus. Half-assing it. Still haven't watched that video. Which one? Frank has. The one that Frank.

It was that and you guys at PFL. The Pettist lost, right? Yep. Yeah, yeah. The hand on the knee. And then also the, yeah, man, my heart hurt after watching it for you. No, no. This is not my fault.

Okay. Still to come in six minutes, we're going to be joined by Sean O'Malley, then Bo Nickel, then Eddie Hearn, then Tom Aspel. We're getting into the meat of things. Let's cleanse the palate real quick here

before we get. Let's have some nice things to talk about. Best thing I saw all weekend, without a doubt, Ben Askren and Jorge Mazvitt altogether. The best thing I saw a weekend. Could you imagine in 2019 these two guys at Ben's house

taking that photo. By the way, look how good Ben looks. From what he looked like last summer to now is unbelievable. And what a message from Ben. I got goosebumps reading this.

Well, I suppose I learned last summer that life is short. Definitely too short for holding grudges. So when Jorge said he wanted to sit down and break bread, of course I took him up on it.

Today he came to Wisconsin, sat down, and had some dinner and chatted it up. Turns out we have more in common than different. It felt great to bury the hatchet and make a new friend.

Life is too short to hold grudges Barry Hatchets and move on with your life. So glad Jorge was able to come to Wisconsin today. I mean, absolutely amazing. And shout out to Rory Karp, the documentarian. I'll leave why he's involved to the side, but he orchestrated that and he deserves a lot of credit for that.

So I absolutely love that. Another thing that I loved was a tweet that was brought up from last summer from Ilya to Pura himself stating, who wants to bet with me that I'm the main event at the White House? September 25. 2005. This fucking guy, man, walks out to the cage smiling.

Like, he knows the ending of this movie. And, yeah, he just pulls that off. That's the celebration tonight before you. Yeah, that's right. Good word of dealing with here. He's unbelievable. Great tweet from our guy Ovin, who does an amazing job with our thumbnails regarding Alex Perra.

Let's give him his flowers because he's sort of getting lost in the shuffle here. Alex Perra has been in the UFC for four years. In that time, he fought 12 times, fought on 11. P-per-Views, main-evented eight paper views, main-evented International Fight Week, main-evented two MSG cards, won two titles, defended one title three times. What's better than that?

What's better than that? I mean, he's a generational talent. He's one of the greatest ever, and if he does this, if he pulls this off against Cyril Gano, by the way, no walk in the park, I know we talk about the title fights and all that, he's still a very good fighter

who was looking quite good against Tom Aspinall and won that first round. So that's not going to be a cakewalk. In fact, he's the dog going into the fight as of right now. Speaking of great tweets, what about this one from Kyle Dacus, who's catching all kinds of strays? I'm happy for Kyle Dacus. A year ago, this guy's fighting on the regional scene. Now he's fighting on the White House against Bo Nickel.

I thought this was a great tweet. I don't really know what the meme is about, but I thought it was just like, all y'all talking shit, here I am, Freedom 250. Right? Isn't that great? I thought that was brilliant. crazy we're getting Steve Garcia, Kyle Dawkins, and Amin Zaheby on the White House card. Hell yeah.

Six fights. Nine out of ten, baby. Nine out of ten. I mentioned the... Not wrong either. I mentioned GC and Rick's reaction to the White House card. Can we play it? Just for...

Just for kicks? This is so good. They thought it was John Joe. They thought everyone was going. The promo was moving so fucking fast. I couldn't... I love it. Seeing the White House.

Justin Gage. All right. Eliaheachee. All right. Alex Pereira! Oh, Alex Pereira. John Jones! Oh shit.

Wait, was that Cyril God? 61426. What's going on here? Rick caught himself. Was that John Jones or Cyril God? 61426? No, I think it's John Jones, Alex Prairie Gaichi Tauporia. Okay, Gachia Taboria.

Holy shit. Headline. Dude. Alexstler versus Cyril. In a room. UFC heavyweight champions. Arisperr versus Cyril gone. Did I not see John Jones in that promo?

I thought it was John 2 and then it was Cyril. Sean O'Malley versus Aman Zahabi? Maricio Huffy versus Michael Chandler. Boe Nickel versus Kyle Dawkins? Who told me that? Didn't someone say Bo Neckle versus Kyle Dawkins? Diego Lopez versus Steve Garcia, that's a fucking banger. So that's your White House guard.

How do we feel about this? It went from... It went from, like, the Uri reaction to like... I very quickly was like, wait, it's not John? And then... I think it was my dumb ass all Khalil getting punched by Alex Pereer. No, I saw the bald head, and I thought... thought it was John too. I saw, I saw what you saw, and then, and then I saw the second one,

and I was like, wait a minute. That's why it's so perfect, though, because we were, like, the fact that you have that reaction to Jones is what everyone was home for. So it's brilliant that you reacted that way because the event you pull the rug. Yeah, it's great. In an effort to continue to cleanse our palate, I'm going to have a positive spin on a story from this weekend. Everyone talking about the, uh, the, the fall from grace from one patchy mix. why don't we give our flowers to Risen's Kiyoma Akimoto who defeated Pachy Mix on the Risen card which continues to be, I'll share the sentiment that a lot of people out there are saying

is like Risen is on a roll right now and thank God for them because they're giving us great moments, great fights, great scenes, great spectacles, fun stuff. It's as close to the Pride Days as we've gotten in a very long time and here's here's Akimoto defeating patchy mix and God knows what happened to patchy mix since leaving Bellator slash PFL but he is not the same fighter anymore

this was a guy who at one point I mean this is violent stuff knees to the ground on the point and all this has soccer kicks everything I mean it's just vicious it's brutal not the same guy not the same guy that's a big win

one last thing to get to before we get to our first guest of the day I saw this on his YouTube channel and it's the biggest thing. Everyone's talking about should John Jones have been on there, Ilya versus Islam, Connor, this, and the other. The most talked about byproduct of the White House announcement is whose side is Helwani on in the matchup featuring Sean O'Malley and Amin Zahavi. And it didn't take long for the gauntlet to be thrown down by the one and only Sean O'Malley who called me out on his YouTube channel who said, whose side are you on, we're

beefing if you're not on my side. Here's what he had to say. Real question is, who is Ariel Hawani going for, Ariel. Just because you look like him doesn't mean you need to go for him. And you fucking, both from Canada. So it's like, do I even do Ariel show anymore? Does Ariel even like me anymore? Man, Ariel, we got beef now. Jokes.

But for real, but joke. Well, I can't confirm. I still like him very much. And I can't confirm that he is here. Let us say hello to the inimitable Sugar Sean O'Malley. Yes, there he is. Hello, Sean. How are you?

We could do a face off right here to get you ready. Sorry, let me just listen to some Joel Austin real quick. Oh, okay, okay. Wow. Okay, sorry, I'm prepped. I'm good. Wow. Why Joel?

Why Joel? Why is that your guy? My hair actually looks like that? Jesus. Sometimes I don't know what my hair looks like. And I see it on camera or like in the mirror or something shit. It just be looking like that sometime. Holy shit.

You look great. Crazy. You look great. Thank you. Is that a survivor headband thingy? Survivor buff, it sure is. Met Jeff, met the cast over the weekend. It was incredible time.

Are you on it? My man, Jeff was really, he was talked me into a little bit. I've always kind of thought, you know, if I'd given the opportunity, would I go on there? And I'm like, man, I would be terrified. I would legitimately be scared to go. But, man, it would be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. So I don't know yet. I feel like you would thrive under those conditions.

Not sleeping, not eating very much, literally doing everything. Like my whole life is revolved on eating clean and sleeping good. And just this to absolutely, you know, but again, it's 30 days or whatever, once in a lifetime. It's, I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. All right. All right.

Well, let's talk about the big news. How did you end up on this card? Can I ask first when you found out that you were on this card? I want to say less than two weeks ago. Okay. Roughly 10 days ago maybe. Hunter called me. He said, are you injured?

I said, no. He said that medical said, I broke my foot after the last fight. And I was like, no, I'm good. I'm good. And he said, oh, I'm glad I called because we're finalizing this White House card. You on on. I said, a fucking course I want on. And he said, I'll let me get back to you.

He called me back. And he said, do you want to aim in? I said, I would love. to fight Amen at the White House card. That easy? Yeah. Wow. Wow, that's a cool poster.

You like it? What do you think? Freedom 250. Yeah, that's cool. Freedom 250, I like it. It's going to be, you know, I'm a USA versus Canada. It's great. I'm very, very, very excited for the opportunity to go out there and do my thing.

You wanted to be on this card, right? Like, you kind of put it out there. So it wasn't like something you had to think about. We did talk, though, after your last fight, that the foot was a little banged up. So what ended up happening? Oh, just sore. You know, I mean, you go into a cage and you kick someone's elbow really fucking hard, and it hurts for a little bit.

So, yeah, it was just sore for a few weeks. Feet are good. Body feels good. I'm ready to, you know, we're 14 weeks out. I'm not going to hop into camp yet. It's a little too far out. But, you know, I'm going to get into my little pre-camp. And, you know, we're dialed in.

Do you have any idea, like, what the... the logistics are going to be like now you know now we're starting to finally sink our teeth into this so like are you guys really going to be in the oval office or is it true that there's not like what what what if anything do you know about the card yeah i i don't know anything i had a went to vegas over the weekend to do do something with paramount survivor and i and i had a you know i always hit up hunter when i'm in in vegas and i was able to talk to him for like 10 minutes and he had to go to the wayans um friday friday afternoon so i didn't get any information i didn't really get anything. I have no idea. I've really no idea what to expect. I'm sure it's going to be a

different kind of fight week, a different kind of fight day. The fight's on a Sunday, which is already a little bit, you know, it's going to throw off some stuff, but I'm going to show up and do what I do. I was wondering about like, are they going to make you guys do like extra background checks, things like, you know, like when you go to the White House, it's a whole big ordeal. Like, is there going to be any extra steps that you're going to have to take in order to be clear to go? your team is going to be clear to go? Can your family come? Do you know any of that stuff? I have no idea. I'm wondering the same thing. My boo is Mexican. My wife's Mexican. Is she allowed to come? I don't know. We'll see. Well, based on the construction of the car, there's a lot of non-Americans on there. So I would imagine that she would be okay. Can I ask you, you're in tune with the people, Sean?

Bad jokes. No, no. I mean, there's a Mexican right beneath you. You're in tune in the people. What do you got there? That looked very clean. No one's beneath me, Aaron. That was rude. What do you got? Bad joke. Bad joke. I'm 0 for two on jokes. No, you're good. Sorry. You're good.

Cut that. I mean, the Joel one. I wasn't sure if that one hit either either. O for three. O for three. What are you drinking, though? I'm very curious about why it's so foamy. It looks delicious.

There's a little cold foam on it. It's a macha from the Java house. Oh, yeah. Best coffee shop in Arizona. Tim's supposed to be here. Tim's sick. Tim's dying. Tim went to Montana.

We had two local guys or two guys fight in Monta Montana over the weekend. Both won. Both did great jobs. But Tim was having to wake up at 5.30, daylight saving. So really it was 430s. Flight. You got a 24 fucking readiness. Dude, I don't know where he's at. He's supposed to be here. He's supposed to be shooting a podcast. So I might have to fill in for him. But I'm drinking a matcha. Thanks for asking. Do you usually listen to Joel Austin? Just to get my mind right before interviews. He's the religious guy, right? Yeah, I'm just sitting at Tim's desk right now and he does this Joel Austin.

speaker so again bad joke I wasn't sure I wasn't sure no I was fascinated by that okay the people seem upset with the card they seem like it's a letdown it wasn't what they were expecting have you seen this and if so what is your response to some of the stuff that people are saying since Saturday online I mean if this was just a numbered event and it was on T-Mobile it would be everyone would lose their minds

great card Alex Pahed of you know going out fighting through a gone possible three-way you know division champion. You got Elia, the versus Gae, champ versus champ, me versus Amin, title eliminator. It's a great card. I think, yeah, people, you know, yeah, they could have maybe did a couple different fights or whatever to get the buzz, but the amount of people that are going to watch it are going to watch it regardless of who, if there was another banger on there. I think it's just going to be one of these once in a lifetime things that people are going to tune into regardless. And it's an excellent.

card. Do you feel like almost like the expectations were set way too high that, you know, barring Connor, John Jones, you, like all these names on the same card, there was never any way that people were going to be happy once the announcement came out? Yeah, I don't know if that's necessarily true. I think there could have been some fights that made this card a little bit, you know, me and guru, one of your buddies were just talking about this on the pod yesterday. And there was a couple of fights that you could make to add to make it kind of give you that extra feel. But, you know, I think me versus Peter would have been made it even bigger.

You know, I think there was a couple other fights that you could make. Maybe I'll even say, what if you threw Aljo versus Voltcon there? That would be fun, wouldn't it? That would have been fun. I like that one. I like that one. Who do you think wins that? It's an interesting fight.

It's an interesting fight. Both those guys, I mean, man, that's a tough one. That's one of those ones. You just would have to watch to fight. find out. I have seen that was good. That was great. That was a great analysis on your part. The reason I asked it was because Aljo and you have the

history and I was curious if you thought that he would be successful against someone like folk at 145 pounds. But I get it. I was sort of putting you on the spot there. Could I ask it seems like a lot of people wanted you to fight Corey Sanhagen. Was there talk of you fighting Corey Sanhagen? There was no

I'm here in the narrative. I'm duck and Corey. But I've been honest with you guys. I remember last fight before I fought song, you guys like, who do you want to fight? I said, I want to fight to Amen. And they offered me song. It's not like I'm picking my fights, clearly. This fight, they offered me Aeman.

And I said, yes, they've never offered me Corey. I've never turned Corey down. And that's that. And it's, you know what I mean? What do you think of this? It sucks to be Corey. I did not, bro, what, O'Malley, Havibi's, booty cheeks. Man, I'm just thankful I'm not Corey.

That would suck. to be him and I don't know you know that sucks. Maybe he doesn't have a great relationship with you, I don't know. When you say it sucks to be him because he's on the outside looking in, you mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that pride too. What else? I don't know, Uncle, I just, you know, it would suck to just be him. I don't really got much else, you know, I don't know.

Is that one at one point you want? Yes. Because it seems like you two have been sort of certain. I think it's inevitable. I mean, I've been saying it's inevitable. It's, you know, I wanted Peter at the White House. That's what I wanted. That's what I asked for.

They said you want Amen. I said yes. But I did say, you know, I would prefer Peter at the White House. That would, I think, you know, that would have been, that would have been huge. I think it, I mean, I don't know what the UFC is doing what UFC does. We're fighting Neiman. U.S. Savers Canada. He's on a seven-time

longer fight win streak than I'm on. I'll tell you that much. Do you have any idea why it wasn't young? Because as you know, can we confirm, was that you in our YouTube comments last week? In the chat? Yes, sir, I was watching.

I was watching, I was watching, Aljo said I sold my soul. But I didn't. My soul's still here. Or wherever the fuck your soul sits. It's still there. Yes, they colored my hair, got a couple face tats.

but, you know, I didn't really feel like that was selling my soul. And I don't think that's really how you, you know, if that was the case, Schmiddy would dye his hair and get a couple face tats and sell his soul. But I don't think that's how it works. I was going to ask you about that, but since you addressed it, do you feel like anything he had to say about like the state of things about fighter pain and all that? Do you think any of it is fair? You know, it's funny he said he was telling UFC who he wants.

wants to fight and they're finding someone an exact opposite for him. It's like, you know, it's his perspective. I mean, I asked two fights ago, or last fight when I fought song, I was asking for Aman, they gave me some. I didn't feel like it was, you know, like, oh, we want you to lose or, you know, this fight I wanted Peter, they gave me Aman. But, you know, it's like, you don't get, just because you don't get what you ask for, doesn't mean they want you to lose. So that one I didn't really agree with the whole fighter pay thing. It's like everyone wants to make more money with, when they do whatever they're doing. You know, I have a good relationship with the UFC, and I'm happy.

I'm honored that they, you know, asked me to be on the White House card. It's going to be huge. For me, it's going to go out there. Yeah, I'm going to make some money, whatever. But I'm going to go out there and build the sugar brand. I want to go out there, put on a beautiful performance, knock people out, have people remember me. And, you know, hopefully that flows into making more money outside the UFC and did different

kinds of brands deals or doing well, you know, continues to grow. and you know, you don't want to make enemies with UFC. I don't understand how these, I don't get what people are doing. And I saw the Tom Aspinall signed with the Hearn, dude. It's like, I don't really know if that's a great idea either. You're going to have someone manage you that the data doesn't really like or something. That doesn't seem very smart. But I'm fucking, you know, I'm not that smart.

But I just, you know, that's how I see it. I get it. It's a fascinating time. I saw your initial reaction to the Connor Ben News. Does that change the way you look at your work? Like if you're saying if this guy's 15, I'm this. You know, it goes through your mind. It's like, damn, that's good for him.

You know, it's nothing against him. Great for him. Business, Zufa, UFC, their business, doing what they need to do. And what are my options? Fight or not fight. You know, I'm going to pick the fight. And I'm going to pick to continue to have a good relationship with UFC. and, you know, just keep doing what I can do.

That's, you know, go out there and win fights. Some have said in the Paramount era their situation financially has changed. Some have said no. How about you? I'm still on the same contract as I was before. You know, when I sit down with Hunter, I typically ask for more than what my contract is. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it does it right now.

I don't know. I haven't talked to Hunter about money and going into this fight. There was no conversation about how much I'm going to make going into this fight. You know, I'm sure I'll talk to him. We've got 14 weeks. He's got some fights in between. So I'm sure I'll talk to him at some point. But I'm going out there to put on a show and I got to get a finish.

And that's, you know, that's what's on my mind. There's a chance. There's a chance that you're one of the few Americans that will win on this card. So do you feel any pressure? just like there's some fights that don't have an American there's some fights where the American is the underdog obviously there's the darkest bone nickel fight there's an American that's going to win there

but there's not that many you know Gachi's the underdog do you feel pressure that this is America's birthday this is the White House you have to represent oh yeah I really I do feel pressure I feel pressure that you know I gotta go out there and represent for the United States and I got to go out there

and you know I feel like I'm going to be expected to go out there and win this fight I'll probably be a favorite um you know there's pressure there too um pressure myself. I need to finish. It's been too long. Who is the last guy I knocked out? The last guy you knocked out? Was it, was it, you do know, was it Aljo? Oh, yeah, that's right. So it's been too long. I was right, right?

Yes, it was Aljo. I just wanted you to say it. Three years. It's been three years. Not too bad. August of 20. I mean, almost three years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. By the time. Today is the day I, two years ago, I fought Cheeto. UFC 299 2 years ago Is that your favorite performance Like start to finish Felt like one of your more flawless performance

Yeah that was a that one felt good That one felt good I mean the Aljo one was obviously You know When you can go out there Get a finish over somebody like that It feels it feels good What do you make of what's happened to Cheeto since

It's sad I mean I'm always rooting for him Every time his fight comes around Routing for him He's just, I don't know. He's in a tough position. You know, he's obviously super skilled. You know what?

That's funny. I just talked about it. A long time ago. I remember, you know, it could have been a little fucked up to say, but a long time ago, I think it's before I fought Peter Yan, maybe it was after, I don't know. I think we were having a conversation and I said, I'm going to go on to become UFC champion. And Cheeto is going to be, become a journeyman. And you disagreed, which is fine.

I shouldn't even have brought it up because I do like Cheeto I'm going for him, I wanted him to win I was right about that Which part did I disagree on The you being a champion Or him being a journeyman? That one

Okay, all right Got it, I shouldn't even have said that Got it, got it, got it Some close calls, right? There's been some close ones He's had some bad luck, I would say I mean, what did you think of the aim and fight? Yeah

Um, close fight They're close, all Cheeto fight, Most of Cheeto fights, you know, are those kind of fights. His last fight, again, was very close, and it could have, you know, I didn't really watch it super close. I was at the RAF matches, but I was watching it on my phone and I'd look up and look down, and it kind of just looked like, you know, it would look like a close fight. I wanted to go back to Jan. When they called you about fighting on the White House, did you say, what about a title fight? What about Jan?

Because Jan was on the show last week saying, 100%. Okay, what happened? U.S. he said, sugar. I hate to tell you, but he's fucking terrified. fight of you, brother. He will not fight you. He refuses to fight you. And I said, well, we can't make him fight me, I guess. So, all right. You know, what am I going to do? Fly to Thailand and fucking make him fight me? But really, what did they say? No, yeah, they said, they said he won't be ready. Oh. But I know he said he said he would be,

but who said she said, you know what I mean? Got you. But I did want that fight. Dude, Chukhiver's Peter at the White House, Russia. I mean, Thailand versus America? Come on. Did they happen to say all goes well for you on this fight, you're next? To be honest, we didn't really, no, I didn't, we didn't say anything about, like, you know, I go out there, win, what's next? There's just no way. If Peter goes out and, if it's Peter versus Marob next, Peter goes out and wins, and I go out there, do my thing. There's just no way they don't make that fight. But we'll see.

One fight at a time, you know, it's, I got to go out there and Amon's, again, he's on. seven-fight win streak. He's hungry. It's a massive opportunity for him. It's a massive opportunity for anybody, but, you know, this is a big fight for him. He goes out there and beats me. He's next for the title. I'd assume.

So, you know, it's a big fight. Do you remember when you did that video? I think it might have been after his win over Cheeto and you were like, oh, I don't know who this guy is. Was that true? Not that long ago that you had never heard of him? The first time I heard of him was when he fought Aldo. When he fought all? Okay, in Montreal.

Yeah, that was in May of last year. So not that long ago. beautiful performance beautiful performance he did good he beat a legend although even though he's older like all those no joke although come back right now and still perform at a high level he's just he's one of those guys super skilled um and he even broke him beat him and then you know went out there and did the same to chito so he's very durable very tough um it's definitely not going to be an easy fight i had heard that there was some talk of you fighting on raf does this now put that on the table like off the table excuse me, does that put it on ice? Yeah, I mean, am I going to go wrestle or am I going to go fight at the White House?

I mean, yeah, that's completely off the table. Was that a real thing, though? You never know, though. It was, you know, I saw them, I talked to him when I was there at the event. And it's like, oh, you would love to get you on. I mean, like, hey, if you want to get me on the RF, you got to, I'm going to have, it's going to have to be worth my time. I'm learning the rules just in case, you know, that freestyle wrestling rules. learning the rules just the case.

I've been wearing a singlet too sometimes, just at home, just in case to get used to it, because it feels a little weird. But yeah, no, you never know. Shit. That was a fun event. I'm not a big, there you go. There it is. I'm not a big, you know, I've never, it's hard for me to watch wrestling,

but that event was awesome. You enjoyed it? Yes, I did enjoy it. Harmon was crazy. That was wild. I mean, God, yeah, it was, and they really having a rematch? Did I see that? Yeah, yeah.

End of the month, March 28th. I'm surprised. I'm surprised they're having a rematch, to be honest. Why? I mean, if you're Armin, you already won. What's the, you know, the dude doesn't need money. You know, he could go wrestle anybody, and it's going to be exciting. Georgio's good.

He's big. He's strong. He's explosive. For Armin's aura, you know, he's just, it'd be, for him to lose right now would just, would be devastating. And that's not a guaranteed winning match every time, I feel like.

But he's a beast. I loved seeing Marab and you shake hands. That was nice. Yeah. You know what I like Barab? He's a good dude. Yeah, we're just smiling, a couple, three wrestlers.

No, man. Like, even at his... Smiling, having a good time. He was, like, genuinely happy for you. He was rooting you on. I like Barab. Marob's a good dude. He's a funny little guy.

You know, I'd love to get that one back someday. It's going to be hard to get the fans interested in a trilogy. But, you know, you go out there and win a few months in a row. Maybe, you know, something someone wants to see. But yeah, it's tough. Usually you have a trilogy when it's 1-1, so this is easy to sell, in my opinion. I agree. I would, for some reason, some people don't think it's 1-1.

Yeah. The best part was Tim and Marab shaking hands. That made me happy. I forgot about that. The beef there. I forgot about that. In the moment, I didn't realize it was what was going on. And then I forgot about it.

And that's, oh, shit, how was that? And he said, you know, it was good. You were at the event on Saturday, right? Are they kicking you out? No. No, no, no. Timbo just showed up. And he's just sick.

So I was trying to keep my distance. He got to roll a fucking toilet paper with him. Jesus Christ No I didn't go to the event Saturday I went in I flew out right before it I flew out right before it I was ready to get home

Vegas is uh you know I just if I don't gotta I try to be anywhere limited amount of time I got you I was just wondering Did you even watch it? I did I got home right at the co-main main event

Did you feel like I watched all the fights though Did you feel like the The criticism that the main event received BMF you know Did you feel like that was fair? Was that one of them? I was entertained in the sense.

No one's ever done that to Max. He's still dangerous, you know, every round. And, you know, so it was kind of, it was entertaining. It was the BMF belt. That's the only reason I think it's getting some flack. But, you know, what are you going to do? Charles felt like that was his way to win. Max was about to look so sharp.

The first little, the first 10, 15 seconds, when he's jabbing high, jabbing low, letting his hands go. He was landing. It was about to be a vintage Max performance, and Charles felt that. Charles knew that. Charles, you know, did what he needed to do,

got a hold of Max and took him down. And, you know, Max was about to, he was about to have another BMF moment, I thought. Do you think they should get rid of the belt or keep it? I like it. I think it's cool. It adds another element to the sport.

The BMF belt. It's, you know, what about, you know, Jorge, come back and fight Charles. Jorge was the first BMF. that would be a fun fight 170 Connor versus Charles for the BMF belt I mean it's gonna get tricky if the next fight plays out like that too

and it's a real grapple kind of fight for the BMF title but yeah I like it I think you definitely keep it in there Charles it's weird I mean Charles next fight doesn't technically have to defend the BMF belt which is interesting so I don't know I think they keep it around

I feel like BMF should be no weight no rounds no time limit, it just should be like, who's the baddest guy? If you're truly going to do that. Because it's a little weird for me that Ilya is the champion at 155 and Charles is the BMF champion at 155 and Ilya knocked him out. In my world, what we were taught was the champion is the baddest motherfucker.

Yeah, I mean, that would make sense. But, you know, everything you see doesn't quite always make sense. It's kind of, you know, it's a business. That's fair. One more about this card, the Cody Garbrand fight. That was wacky, right? I mean, I was not the first time someone's lost three rounds in a row and literally still won. It's pretty cool.

That is true. I didn't even think of that. You're right, because you got two points taken away. That is crazy. That was, that was, it was a weird one, you know. That was a weird fight. I mean, he got cracked with that left head kick right at the beginning of the first round and toughed through it. And, you know, got hit in the nuts, sprinted at him, got hit the nuts.

It was weird. was those Chinese fellows are tough The biggest question of the mall What are you doing with the hair for June 14th? A lot of talk about red, white, and blue What are we doing? I don't know yet

The red and blue Would stick nicely The white would be kind of hard Um We'll have to wait and find out Okay This is big man This is you're fighting at the White House

I don't know if you realize this You're fighting at the freaking White House Crazy It's hard to I mean it is exciting It still feels so far out that it like it doesn't it hit me that i'm you know we're doing it we're fighting at the white house but it's still so far out like so much could happen you know there's issues going on in the

world like what i'm like not getting my hopes up too much okay but the closer the fight gets to the more i'm like damn like when we're on the fucking plane heading to washington i'm gonna be like this is crazy i mean but until then it's like there's a lot that could happen you know we'll see title fights are title fights but i would imagine there's like some other energy that comes with this, right? Like, this is the type of thing you tell your grandchildren about. No athlete, other than like a fight that happened a century ago, no athlete has ever been able to experience this. Yeah, I mean, the headline the sphere, then go to the White House and defend the 135 three-round belt is big time. Amazing. Well, I'm happy for you, Sean. Congratulations.

Thank you, as always for coming on and talking to us. You're always a pleasure to text with and to deal with. And thanks for being in the chat last week. There was some talk behind the scenes that it was like one of your guys, your minions, but I said, no, that's you. That was me. I was watching YouTube. I saw Ariel was on there with Aljo. I'm like, oh, these two of my buddies. Who are you going for? Amin or sugar. Be honest, I'm not going to bad. It's you all still come on the show, but you can just, you just, I just want to hear it from the horse's mouth. I was trying, I was, who are you going for? I was hoping to wrap it up before you asked that question. I was hoping you forgot. In the end. You want to see him when.

You live in New York. No. I'm crazy. I'm a, I'm an unbiased, impartial journalist. I don't root for anyone. I root for the good guys. You two just so happy to be two really good guys that I like a lot. And so I just hope that the fans win. Who's gooder? At fighting? I would say you have to the gooder guy. You say you like good guy.

Oh, okay. You have the better resume. You have done more and accomplished more in this sport. He's a good guy from a good family as well, great family. I just, I hope no one gets hurt. I hope everyone has a fun time, has a really nice experience, and gets to go home to their families and that would be good.

Yeah, you know, celebrate. I hope Farras tells him to come out in that fucking Rob Font stance. That would fuck me up. Is that his game plan? What was going on there? That was not, that didn't go very well. I'm not sure if that was... Grom might as well and Laura Singlet. Yeah, it wasn't...

He was in a wrestling stance and then still got taken down. It was just like, what do we do here? We stand up, throw a jab, man, you're good. He's got good boxing. He's super skilled. Whose idea was that? The only time it was Farras is. It wasn't GSP's. GSP would at least back. flipped or something. All right, we'll get out of here. You're the man.

Appreciate you, brother. Thank you, Sean. All the best. Good luck. Yep. There he is. The great Sean O'Malley fighting on June 14th at the White House against Amin Zahabee. Who am I rooting for? I don't root for people, all right? I don't root for people. But what an opportunity, man. What an opportunity for these guys. It's really an incredible thing. So let's go from one fighter, one American who is fighting on this card to another American who is fighting on this card. And in fact, his fight features the only America versus America fight on the card. It's two Americans going toe to toe. We all expected and suspected for the longest of time since this was announced.

We all knew and thought and believed that Bo Nica will be on the card. Can't say that we all thought Kyle Dachas would be on the card because truth be told when this was first announced July 4th weekend of last year, he wasn't even in the UFC yet. He returned. He was fighting on the regional scene a year ago. And he may have just come back, but like it was not exactly in the plans. But here we go. It's Bo Nickel versus Kyle Dachos and Boe Nichol is kind enough to join us right here now to talk about it all.

There he is. Hello, Bo. How are you? I'm doing well, Ariel. I heard you in the last interview. Why are you telling lies? About what? About what?

You said you don't root for fighters. I don't root for fighters. I know you root for me. Don't lie. I like this beau, by the way. You've been on fire. The past 24 hours. has been your finest hour on social media.

Yeah, I figured out my lane a little bit, I think. Just don't take it so serious, you know? He's got to mess with these guys. You had this one tweet about, tell me why you're mad that I'm on the card, and I don't really care, I'm just, this one. Tell me why you're mad that I'm on the White House card. I don't really care just looking for engagement.

And you got it. You nailed it. They took the bait. They took the bait. Are you feeling that? Are you getting that sentiment? No, not really. I mean, there was a couple people I saw on, you know, posts and stuff, like, why the hell is this guy on the card? And it's like, I mean, I think 95% of people understand why I'm on the card. And yeah, I mean, I don't really feel that overall. I just, again, wanted some engagement. So it's all good. I think if anything, it's, and I'm actually, I really like Kyle in his story. He was in studio not that long ago. I think it's a great story. And I like that there's an American versus American fight on the card. I think that might be.

it like he's just not a big name why is kyle your opponent maybe they were thinking someone bigger i feel like if anything that's the the the criticism for the fight as opposed to you being on the card you get that sense yeah of course i mean i think that um there's obviously a lot bigger names out there and uh for me there was different guys that i was asking for and stuff and um you know there was a lot of guys matched up as well in the division at middleweight and so you know i think kyle was the fight that that made the most sense and also, you know, he wanted to fight. So that's something that it's really out of my control. And I'm looking forward to just putting on a great performance,

regardless of who I compete against. Was he on your radar as of late? Not really, to be honest. I mean, we fought on the same card in MSG in November, and he got a big finish. And, you know, not really on my radar outside of that, but, you know, they brought the name. and of course I agreed.

I think there was other fights again that I was asking for that weren't him, but those didn't materialize. And so when they brought him to the table and he agreed and I was ready to go. I'm fascinated by the process of getting on the card. When did you find out and how did you find out? Well, the UFC had chatted with me, you know, after my last fight, basically saying that like the next fight's the White House. And for me, it was obviously a great opportunity that I was excited about.

Timing-wise, you know, I would love to have gotten a fight, had a little shorter layoff, right? It'll be seven months for me. But with that being said, you know, the opportunity is once in a generation, once in a lifetime, once ever. And so for me, I basically knew I was going to be on the card right after my last fight. I just didn't know who. When did you find out it's Kyle? They started bringing his name up pretty recently. Like, it wasn't really something that I knew for a long amount of time.

So, yeah, it was, you know, a lot of the stuff that, you know, it's going on behind the scenes and everything. Like, I feel like generally fighters are more privy to, but for this one, they really didn't really keep, they kept everything pretty tight-lipped. Of course, I think just because of the situation and wanting to put the best card out that they could. Yeah, Kyle wrote on Twitter that he found out on Saturday that he was officially on the card. Yeah, that sounds about it right. Did you see his tweet about being on the card? I thought it was a banger as well. I enjoyed it.

You guys, the two of you have been doing great on social media. I think we have it. We'll show it to you. Here's what he posted. I thought that was good. That was good. I was good. I like it.

As everyone's throwing a fit around him. You mentioned names that you asked for. I also saw you say you asked for Colby. What happened when you asked for him? Yeah, of course. You know, I think that Colby was, again, a guy that wasn't really on my radar until the real American freestyle event in January. And, you know, he kind of spouted off about me quite a bit.

And I was like, okay, well, we can fight. And then post-match for him, he said that he wanted to move up to middleweight and fight at 185. So I was like, wow, well, this is perfect. everything's lining up and let's do it. And so obviously asked for him and the UFC tried to make the fight. I know they talked to him extensively and, you know, long story short, he just wouldn't do it. You know, I think, you know, even told him like, hey, if you want to be on this card, you have to fight Beau.

And he said no. So he would rather, you know, be a coward and not fight me than be on the White House card, which is a once in a lifetime, well, once ever opportunity. So, I mean, I think that says pretty much everything about the. guy that he's willing to talk like that and make those statements and tell me I'm easy work. And then he given this huge opportunity to compete against me still, you know, wouldn't do it. What's wild to me about that is that he has made his persona into like the Trump guy, right? Every chance he's wearing the hat.

Like he went over the top with it when not a lot of athletes were doing that, especially back in like 2018, 2019. And now you get the opportunity to fight there. And you said no, based on what you're telling us, if what you're telling us, if what you're telling us is true and I have no reason to not believe you because of what? Because he thought it wasn't a good matchup. He didn't want to go up. I mean, everyone knows, everyone knows it would be basically just like leading a lamb to slaughter, which, you know, it is what it is, but I think the people want to see it. And it would have been an exciting fight. But for him and

his position, I understand because in one sense, I understand because you're literally going out there just to get killed. And on the other hand, it's like, man, it is a fight. There's always a chance. you know, you can throw a punch, somebody could slip on a banana peel, blah, blah, blah, blah. It is the White House, right? Like, this is never going to happen again. I was surprised. I thought that the fight was going to get made just because of the circumstance. But, you know, he is a coward, like at the end of the day, he backed out, didn't want to do it. And that, I think taints his legacy a little bit, which I don't think he really had much of a legacy to begin with. You know, he lost every big fight he was in. But, you know, it would have been nice to kind of really, like, you know,

sweep him out the door in his fighting career, but it is what it is. Do you know if they actually went to him and offered him? 100%. Wow. Wow. And he said, he tried to lie and say, you know, this, that, blah, blah, blah. Like they 100% offered him, tried to make the fight. And then he was in the media saying, oh, I would fight, Beau.

Well, they offered him the fight for a fact. So, you know, I just, I don't understand why it didn't, you know, why he didn't take it at that point if he's saying the stuff in the media. What do you make of the criticism of the card? The reason that it's being criticized in my view is because the precedent that's been set and the expectation of, you know, talking about this card for an entire year. And I think that no matter really like what you did, it just wasn't going to match up. It's like, you know, your, people are so excited about it that you could have you you've got the two biggest draws in the UFC right now you know that are fighting actively on the on the card which is insane and uh in

Pereira and ilia and then you know um i think that yeah there was just this crazy precedent set that people were expecting just unrealistic things and now you know the card's going to be amazing I think it's one of the best cards, you know, ever, and there's just such a high expectation that people are disappointed for whatever reason. Have you been given any sort of like intel details? Okay, it's going to work like this. The locker room's going to be here. The Oval Office is really going to, like, you know how this is actually going to play it. That's part of the appeal. The cell, so to speak, is just how this is all going to look, right? That's a big part of it. Do you have any idea? Zero. Wow. I have no idea. Yeah, I don't know. That is unbelievable. What do you expect as far as, like, your approach?

Do you think this is going to be great for the Bo-Nickle brand? Just to be a – I would imagine there's going to be a lot of people watching. Yeah, of course. I mean, just like so many people have reached out already, like seeing the announcement and stuff and people are very excited. So I think that this is a great opportunity. I don't see how this isn't the most watched UFC event of all time, just with a circumstance. So being on the card is definitely a big opportunity.

Have you spoken to the president himself about your involvement, your placement on the card? I spoke to him a while back before my first match in RAF. This was actually like in August of 25. And we talked about the card a little bit and just kind of said like this was so early that, you know, I had already, I hadn't even had a fight booked for November yet. And basically said that like it was kind of a done deal at that point, just given our relationship. But yeah, I know he's obviously pumped about it. Do you know if he asked for you to be on the car? I don't think he had to. I think that it was kind of understood already that I needed to be on the

card. And like I said, as soon as my fight ended in MSG in November, they were like, hey, it's White House next. So that was where it was already kind of understood in my mind. It wasn't like a tough thing to get done. It was more just about the opponent. It seems inevitable to me that Gable Stephson's coming to the UFC. I thought maybe they'd put him on this card. Who knows, maybe last minute they do, but he's on some kind of role to start his career. Have you been watching how he's doing and do you see any sort of similarities between like him coming over and the way in which you came over? Yeah, I mean, I've definitely been following him. I think he's a unbelievable athlete, just a generational talent. So it's exciting to see him do well. And I think he's obviously

bound to, you know, be in the UFC and compete at a high level. And, you know, him being on the White house card would be super super cool. I don't know like what his discussions have been like with the UFC and whether that's realistic. I know they said potentially there was going to be one more fight or if he's even in the mindset of like, hey, I want to be in the UFC right now. So, you know, overall, you know, I've definitely been following along with his career and rooting for him, but I don't really know any details. No, and I know that it, as of right now, it hasn't been made official, but it seems inevitable that he's coming over. I thought maybe him, Kayla Harrison, and she's obviously hurt.

So it feels like you're one of those like true blue, all-American guys that's on this card. You've represented the country. You've had a great collegiate career and all that stuff. Do you feel that pressure? I know you're not going up against a foreigner, so to speak, but like to represent, to do something great, the president might be there.

I would imagine he is there. It's the 250. Do you feel like this is a moment in which you have to step up? You ordinarily do step up, but it feels like the stake in the spotlight is different this time. You know, I hadn't really thought about it until you brought it up. Obviously, like, in my mind, you know, I know the opportunity is great. And so I guess, you know, as far as like the feeling of like pressure and having to perform and this or that, like I already, I already feel a lot of pressure for myself because, you know, I work hard and I want to do well. But with this circumstance, I would say I see more as like a positive of like, this is a great opportunity for me to go out there, put on a show. showcase my skills, how much improvement I've made over the past year. And I feel like more just grateful for it versus like, you know, nervous or afraid. Of course, you're going to have nerves and

there's going to be, you know, those thoughts that creep into your mind about like, oh, what if this happens or that happens? But I would say like I just feel really, I feel a lot of gratitude for the opportunity. Do you feel as though this is the moment in which like your career goes to the net? Like this is the writing of the wrong from last year. last year was a bit of a stepback or a setback, if you will, but all goes according to plan for you, you're right back in that spot, if not in the greater spot? Yeah, I think a little bit, you know. When I look at my career, for me, it's gone definitely differently than what I expected.

Like if I had to map it out before I started fighting and tell you how it was going to go, it's definitely been very different from what I thought. But it's been interesting and fun, and I think that I just, focus on improvement and getting better and I just enjoy it. Like I love fighting and I love training and getting to do this every day is, uh, is just amazing. So I feel like, um, the progression of my career isn't something that I'm like thinking about and stressing about. It's more just like I get to do something that I enjoy every day and I'm grateful for that. And I think that, you know, I know I can continue to get better. So I'm just going to do that.

Just curious, when you say it didn't go as you thought, do you mean in a good way, bad way? What do you mean by that? I wouldn't say good or bad, just different, you know, like, I think that when you go, when I'm always, I guess I do tend to like kind of try to plan stuff out and see how things are going to work, you know, in my mind before they happen. But I think that just the, the trajectory and the way my career is gone, I would have expected it to be just be a lot slower, you know, different types of fights. Like, it seems like every single fight I'm in is like this massive thing. You know, every card I've been has been either pay-per-view main card or now, you know, it's going to be at the White House. So like, I didn't necessarily expect that coming

into my career. I mean, my fourth pro fight was a main card UFC numbered event. So, like, that just wasn't really in my mind coming in. And, you know, now we're here. This will be like what, my ninth or 10th fight and I'm fighting at the White House. So, you know, I figured I would still be fighting like a regional promotion at this point. But yeah, it's been it's been fun and I enjoy the excitement of it all and I enjoy all the lessons that I've been able to learn. I feel like I've been able to learn so much about myself and just continue to build confidence and continue to improve and just get better. something that, again, I'm very grateful for. And it's just been a lot of lessons that I've been able to learn, which is fun, that part's fun for me. Are you going Kurt Angle on us here,

like the American hero who's actually the heel? Is that what you're doing? Oh, I don't know. You know, it's so weird. Like, again, that's something that is kind of in line with what I'm saying, where it was hard to predict. Like, I never thought, like, coming into a sport, like the media stuff would be what it was as far as, like, a lot of people, you know, feeling very negatively towards me or having just like strong opinions towards me. Again, in wrestling, it's like I had a little bit of that, but it was mostly positive. And I think that there's a lot of situations where I brought that on to myself. But I just kind of like am at a point where it's just part of my life and I just try to have

fun with it. And it's like, it's almost just not real because any interaction that I've ever had in person, and we've talked about this before, it's always positive. but like the online stuff and the media stuff has been just really different from what I would expect. And I think, again, I'm not going to sit here and say that I don't have any accountability and that. I think a lot of things that I've said have brought that on. But it definitely was not like something that I expected. I feel like there's a little bit of freedom, pardon the pun, that comes with just saying like, I don't care and I'm going to mess around online,

right like to not hold on to every comment or negative thing that's thrown your way and to just be like yeah I'm going to try to turn the tables on you guys here and lean into this that's probably a little bit freeing right for sure and I think really what it has to do with is that when I would get these responses I was almost confused by him like whoa like why are you guys feeling this way about me and then that would make me kind of defensive and feel like, oh, I need to like defend myself where these people are saying these things about me that I don't think are true. And I realized, I guess, twofold one, like, my, the perception of the things that I'm saying and how I'm like handling certain interviews, like, I think that there's a lot of times where the questions are framed in a certain way. And then,

you know, we get the answer for me and I'm like feeding into it. And then it's like, so I got to take a little bit of accountability there and know like, oh, like, I'm kind of like, feeding the machine in a way. And then also just understanding that like this isn't really real. It is that like machine and that media monster that's like running through and and and getting the responses and generating the views and clicks and stuff and not really like taking it to hard and trying to just like be myself and mess around versus feeling like I'm not like a defensive person. I don't want to always have to like feel like, oh, I need to defend myself, defend my own honor. Like, I think that's just weird.

So I'd rather just kind of like have fun with it and not take it so seriously into heart. That doesn't happen when you speak to me, right? Those types of. I think that you do a good job of framing the questions in a way that you get like deep into like the mindset of a fighter, which I like better. But I think that also like you hit the hot button topics that if I choose to like say what's going to get. it clicks, then it's going to do it. But it's what people want to hear and know. So it's twofold. It's not like, oh, you're setting me up. It's like you're asking a question that people want to know, and I can choose to answer it in a way that doesn't really excite people, or I can choose the answer in a way that

gets a lot of, you know, interest. So like, that's kind of on, on me, you know, to decide that. Okay, fair enough. I'll take that. I'll take that. By the way, you mentioned RAF. You've competed for them a couple of times. Can I get your take on this Armand Georgio situation? What do you, as like a true blue hardcore wrestler, was someone in the wrong last week? Did someone cross the line? Obviously we know what happened in the end

the brawl and all that stuff, but like was that too much? Was that too physical? What do you think of the match? I think that I don't really put blame or put anybody in the wrong there. It's just like two guys wanted to compete and things escalated further than you know they needed to

but that's what happens when you put two competitive guys in a situation that, you know, both want to win and both have like big reputations to uphold. And so, you know, I'm, I was a little surprised with how far it went, but I don't really think like one guy's at fault or anything like that. It just was like one thing after another escalated, but it was definitely exciting. What about the takedown or not the – Armin says it was a takedown. Georgio says it wasn't. In your opinion, is that considered a takedown?

So the refs didn't give the points, so it wasn't a takedown. Wow. That's, I don't know how to argue with that. You know, you can say this, that, whatever. Oh, it should have been a takedown, but the refs didn't call it. So, you know, I wouldn't even go say, like, what I think at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. Like, they didn't award it.

So, I mean, you can't say, like, oh, I took him down, you know, there's no stat on the stat sheet that said he got a takedown. But, yeah, I mean, that's not really, I wouldn't say that's, like, my opinion. I would say that's just what happened, I guess, objectively. How would you rate Georgia as a wrestler? I think he's really solid, you know. I think that people in the wrestling community have looked at his record, I guess, in college, this or that, and kind of like thrown some shade on it.

But the reality is, like, when I watch him compete and look at his skills, this guy's really good. He's really talented. You know, college wrestling is really hard where, you know, the most talented guy and the most skilled guys and the guy that really wins. You're dealing with a lot of stuff. You're like 20 years old, going to class, balancing all these things, and then trying to compete at a high level. So, you know, the record is what it is. But when I watch him, I think you got to respect his skills. And even if you look at the match with Armand, you know, he did take Armin down. So

Armand's a guy that's competed, you know, for UFC titles and with the top of the top grapplers in the world. So if you can take a guy like that down, that says a lot. Feels like they've really caught lightning in a bottle here, like the momentum from the first show just in August to now, like the interest and you're getting the matchups and you're getting some juiciness here. Is this moving along quicker than you thought? Yeah, way quicker. And it's a testament to the hard work that Chad Bronstein, Izzy, you know, these guys have put in to put on a great show and just make it exciting for the fans and also moving very fast. Eric Bischoff's another guy that's put a ton of work into this and made a huge impact on RIF and the wrestling community.

And it's just getting people excited because this has been needed for a long time. You've needed some people that understand business, that understand production and understand how to tell a story to come into the sport and really give it its due because that just hasn't happened in wrestling ever, right? So now you have people that understand the other part of the entrepreneurial, I guess, endeavor and and I think that it's created a real exciting atmosphere and it's it's just been fun so I think everybody wants to be a part of it now you have every single fighter talking about wanting to be an r a f and every single you know international wrestler wanted to do it and that are putting shows on

consistent so what they're doing has been really incredible we getting nickel versus saduleev if I'm pronouncing that correctly yeah sagilive I would love that match that'd be great um so you know I think that obviously I have the White House card ahead of me, but he is a guy that is definitely on my radar after signing with RAF, so it would be a fun match for me. And yeah, I would love to compete against him. He's one of the best wrestlers of all time, and I think it would be a matchup that a lot of people would want to see. By the way, I don't know if you know this. I'm a big, you know, wrestling guy myself, and I was watching the Big Ten Championships yesterday. Seven of ten way classes won by Penn State. Not bad. Yeah, not bad. Why not ten?

of 10. That's a great question. I expected 10 of 10 going in. But it's tough. It's toughest conference in the country. And you have guys that are, you know, they'll place, you know, lower in the big 10 than they do with the nationals. It's just a tough tournament. But yeah, the dominance that Penn State has shown, you know, this year is, is pretty incredible. And it's been exciting to watch. I love watching these young guys coming up. And it's really interesting having been there just, you know, five, six years ago and seeing the progress that they've made and how ready they are at a young age. And it's just exciting for the development of the sport. And I love seeing people compete at a high level. So that's always fun. With the national championship coming up, is there one guy that

you think could be a guy that we're talking about like you or Gable that will transition over to MMA? You know, it's so different now because these kids are making so much money with NIL. they don't really have to even think about going into MMA and, you know, they can pursue wrestling with between NIL money and college and then have an RAAF. I don't think that MMA is as much on these guys' radars. Like, I know that Big Ten heavyweight champ Tegadali has talked about fighting. A.J. Ferrari has talked about fighting. But I would say it's going to be tough now because they can, you know, compete through college.

They can then try to wrestle the World Olympic Championships. And then they can do RIF every month. It's like there's no need to really like do anything else. And they're going to get all of their competitive, I guess, juices out and also be able to like compete in an environment like RIF that brings a ton of eyes and is really exciting. So like for me, I know when I graduated college, that was one of the many reasons that I decided to transition to MMA is there was no opportunity to compete in exciting events. Like the World and Olympic Championships have, you know, a thousand people in the crowd, and it's the same guys every year. But now with RAF, you can have exciting matchups every month.

So I don't know that they, MMA is as much on these guys' radar. Fair enough. Last thing before that you go, you're a Penn State guy, Doc is a Philly guy, sort of like a Pennsylvania sort of turf war, if you will, at the White House. Who do you think is the fan favorite as far as Penn, like the whole store? state is concerned, not Penn State, the state of Pennsylvania, because he's like a proud Philly guy too, you're a Pennsylvania. You know, Penn State is like sort of, was that Happy Valley? What does that call it that? Yeah, yeah. I'm in the, you know, I'll give him the eastern part of the state.

Okay. I'll take the western part of the state. I'll take, I'll take State College and, you know, the Whippiel. I think that if you look at it historically, most of the tough guys come out of Pittsburgh. I don't really know there's too many tough fighters coming out of Philly. Oh, what? I mean, Rocky, yeah. No, I'm just kidding. Okay, okay. But there's a lot of, you know, I think it's cool to see, you know, that area in general thriving in combat sports, right?

Like, you have a lot of tough guys coming out of Philly, you know, Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh, obviously, like, huge wrestling community. I mean, I even think about, like, in the Northeast in general, the, a lot of those guys that are, you know, with John Danaher, Gordon Ryan, they kind of originated in the Northeast. So, you know, that's definitely like a hotbed for fighting culture and combat sports, which, you know, I'm proud to be there, proud to represent. And it's definitely cool to compete against a guy from the same area. You know, no shade towards Kyle at all. It'll be, it'll be fun. I think he's a tough fighter, a tough guy. And, yeah, we're going to have a good fight. Well, very happy for you. Congratulations on getting this honor. What a big deal. It's really going to be quite the scene. So I thought you're on the card too, right? You versus Sean O'Malley? Some might say this is the closest that I'll ever get to the white. House and you know what, I'm okay with that. My allegiances are being tested as you saw earlier, but I'm down the middle. And I like Kyle a lot as well. So I'm just hoping that everyone has fun

and remains healthy. Look at that. Freedom 250. You like that logo? You like that name, Freedom 250? Yeah, let's go. It looks good. It's a while. I do think that if you want me on your show again, that you got to pick a side. Now, what is this? Why do I have to pick sides now? You have to. That's just, that's the rules. I'm setting. I'm setting. All right. I'll think about it. Okay. I'll tell you. I'll text. Uh, thank you. I'll text. Uh, thank you. so much. All the best to you, man, and good luck in training. Appreciate it. Thank you. There he is. Bo Nickel joining us. Great to have him on. So we've got a couple of the names, and hopefully we'll get more as well as the weeks roll on. We are three months away from this

massive deal. And at least now we could stop speculating on who's on this card, and we could just start breaking it all down and talking about it and also speculate on who could have been on and bellyache about who should have been on and all that stuff and more. Still to come in a matter of moments, the one and only Eddie Hearn, the man over at Matchroom Boxing, and now the man over at the Matchroom Talent Agency, who to thunk, his first and only client, Tom Aspinall. He will join us after that conversation. So we're going to go back to back with this topic here. And I know a lot of you are looking forward to those chats, as am I. I've been looking forward. I've been looking forward.

to speaking to them for several days now. And of course, on Thursday, out of nowhere, we got the graphic, we got the news, we got the video that Aspinall and Hearn were linking up, that they would be working together on a sort of commercial advisory basis. And then we got the press conference on Friday, and it's been, it's been incredible theater. It's been incredible theater to watch it unfold. And so, as I said last week on the program, I, I was, I I was coming back from the Olympics and I was reaching out to people that I wanted to speak to and obviously reaching out to the newsmakers as of late. And, you know, usually when I reach out to Eddie, I have to say he's rather quick to respond and usually quite gracious with his time and willing to come on. Didn't hear anything once, didn't hear anything twice.

Got a bit of a vague text on Wednesday and wasn't quite, what was going on? Did I offend him? Did I do something? And then it all made sense on Thursday. And so without further ado, he is here. And quite frankly, I am happy we waited because there's a hell of a lot more to talk about now. Hello, Eddie. How are you?

You know, that wasn't my style area. I know. It was really difficult because I've got the biggest mouth going, right? So it was like, I knew that if I spoke to you, I'd end up telling you because I was so excited. And I just couldn't afford for any leaks. You know, it was the power of the announcement that worked so well. So I was like, I'm just going to blank him. Twice.

Eddie, I was heard. I was in my feelings. I'm not going to lie. Twice I got blank. Sorry, mate. No, it's all good. It's all good. It was actually quite funny how I found out out of the blue, I went for a third time because I'm relentless like that. And you said, yeah, we'll have some stuff to talk about. And I was like, oh, yeah, what? And then you dropped the announcement on me. And I looked at the time and it had been posted like two minutes prior. Well, I actually had to bring the announcement forward because the announcement was planned that night. And we said major announcement coming. And then it was like, like, I, what is it? What is it? What is it? And it was actually, I said before, I'll give him the name check. Cole McGuigan from IFL was like, you haven't signed Aspin or have you? And I just phoned the office and I was like, get it out now. So we dropped it a couple of hours before anticipated. And the news was just, it was incredible. It was everything that we wanted them more. And just so pleased with the response, the announcement and, yeah, the future. Did you start Matchroom Talent Agency so that you can sign Tom Aspinall

and go down this path or had you been planning and the stars aligned and he's the perfect first client? Well, we always felt that we had a great opportunity to run a representation agency. I mean, I started my professional career

for the first six, seven years of it, being a sports agent, right? So that's kind of like, I worked through that system. We also have dealt with absolutely every side of the sports game. You know, we've been agents, we've been promoters, we've been broadcasters, you know, we've worked across every contract, we work across social, digital, we drive the profile of our athletes.

I mean, there isn't anything that we haven't, there isn't a box we haven't ticked in that world. So the main reason that we looked at the agency was more from the football side. I mean, you remember the conversations about us and AJ creating an agency recently and it was a progression of that. Honestly, this was a conversation I had with Michael Riddle from The Zone, and he just said to me at the Wood Warrington Card, have you spoke to Tom Aspinon? I think you guys should have a conversation. And I had a conversation with Andy, and it just went from there. And when I had that conversation, I never ever thought, oh yeah, you know, we're going to represent him. You

know, we're going to launch the agency with him. But everything just fell into line. And because of the amount of interest that we had during those conversations of other people coming on, you know, Ross and the guys in the office just said, let's just roll this out. We'd already had everything in place for the launch of an agency. It just was never going to be this early. But we just felt that Tom was the perfect guy to lead with. And obviously, the noise that it was going to create was always going to be epic. Over the years, I've had, I mean, almost every manager in the business say, can you put me in touch with Tom? Can you. Can you put me in touch with Andy?

I want to represent this guy as he's climbing the ladder. And for whatever reason, they've always felt like we're going to do this on our own, right? Tom and his father, Andy, we got here on our own. He's my coach. He's also going to represent me. And so to me, and this may be like inside baseball, what was most interesting about it is like, wow, Eddie got them to sign on because every manager has given them the pitch. And so why do you think they ultimately went with you?

And I know you're not a manager in the traditional sense. And I know that Andy's still going to be there and we'll get into those, you know, machinations in a moment, but ultimately they've never signed with anyone else but themselves. Why do you think that you spoke to them and why do you think that they signed with you? You know, I had a great conversation with Andy. I think that sometimes fathers of fighters or fathers of any athlete are notoriously difficult to deal with because the passion that they have and the love that they have sometimes blinds them from the reality of the situation. with Andy, who I, listen, I can imagine can be a pain in the arms to people, and every father can be in this world.

I actually found someone that had so much passion and fighting him. And I just love it, right? I love it when a dad is saying to me, my Tom, he'll do this and he'll do that. The kicker for me was when we all spoke, I actually, and Tom won't mind me saying this, I actually couldn't believe how broken this guy's confidence was in Tom. I'm Aspinall. Like, the first conversation that we had, he actually said to me, like, what, why are you interested in me?

You know, my reputation, like, they've, they've stitched me up. I'm just like damaged goods at the moment. I'm like, you what? I said, are you for real? You're a UFC heavyweight champion? Damage goods. Well, you know, they've hung me out to dry and they've, you know, they've run this narrative on me.

And it was just so down in the dumps. And actually the difference between that initial conversation and seeing him at the press conference last week was a completely different man. He is absolutely buzzing, buzzing. And he's right now, he just can't wait to get back. Whereas before I found a guy that actually didn't really want to come back. And anyway, we had this conversation, and he was so keen.

But Tom was a little bit more, hmm, you know, what's going on here? You know, all the things that you said, We've spoke to these other managers in the past. What's the difference with this guy? And we had to be very straight with Tom because, of course, you know, and I'll see Bispings comments as well, which we'll come on to. But it's like, you know, oh, I don't really want to be a pawn in this Eddie V. Dana war right now. And I said, look, there's a couple of things you need to know.

Number one, we want to launch an agency. Number two, in that respect, you are one of the biggest stars in fight sports and in British sport as well. And number two, there is a fantastic narrative at the moment with myself and Dana that is actually in turn going to raise your profile to levels that has never been before. And by the way, Tom Aspinall's profile right now, I would say is right up there. He hasn't even boxed in what, nearly six months? Four in six months. Fort in six months. I'm still learning.

Yes, yes, yes. And it's like, so in that respect, like I don't see like, Where you are right now, I see nothing but upside in us working together. He was like, I said, look, come out and see me in Monaco, let's have a chat. Apparently, he was actually saying, I don't know if you've spoken to him yet tonight, but he's actually saying that he was going to come to Monaco to kind of let me down and say, look, love the chat, love you guys. And we had six or seven hours in Monaco.

And sometimes when you're just being really truthful with someone, you're having conversations. and everyone in the room is just like, this is what we need to do. This is so perfect this relationship. And I'm looking at him. I'm going through his UFC contract. I'm talking about the numbers that he's made over the last three, four, five fights. And I'm just sitting there and I'm like, I actually can't believe what's going on. I actually can't believe that you've had your eyes virtually gouged out.

And you've been really, in my opinion, chastised by the organisation. And a narrative has been run on you. You've had three operations and you're sitting there feeling sorry for yourself. And I can tell what kind of individual you are. You know? And I was just, I was like, I want to represent you here. Forget me V Dana. I want to represent you.

And we just, we just got on so well. And we never looked back. You know, they went back that night. And I said to him, I hate, I always hate pressuring guys to sign. And we're sitting in that room in Monaco. And I just said to him, listen, don't sign. Take it away on the plane. Have a chat to your dad.

I don't want to make you feel he said, I'm ready. And I said, listen, if you want, we have a press conference on Friday. This was on Wednesday. He said, let's do it. And so can you give me the breakdown? What is the state of the relationship? Who are you to him? How does this all work?

Well, I mean, we are his representation company across his commercial management and and representation and advisor. So I said to him clearly, I said, I don't want you to feel like I'm, I have to go in and talk to Hunter or Dana about your fights, you know, so you will have to appoint how we want to play that. We sit effectively as a team, right?

I now know his exact contractual position. I now know the landscape of how this might play out. but if he wants me to go in and deal with those guys, I will. And by the way, I will go in and I will fight for everything that he deserves. I also understand and appreciate, and he's been very mature in these conversations to the media, his contractual position as well. So, you know, we're not, this isn't about Matrim just coming in and busting him out of a contract or trying to, you know, move him in certain directions.

We know where we are. We just hope to have honest conversations, given his value. you, but you know what area as well? I actually think this is a wonderful, wonderful thing for the UFC. Because if you've got the UFC heavyweight champion whose profile has already risen incredibly over the last week, and by the way, we will continue to drive his profile with our promotional machine. The UFC aren't doing that. The guys, once the guys finish fighting, their responsibility is not really to use their machine to drive the profile of their fighters continuously throughout the year, everything is built around the promotion of a fight.

So right now, with Tom not fighting, there's zero promotion. There's zero profile building. So we're going to do that job for him. And I believe that when he fights again, he will be in a much better position commercially. He will be a much bigger start. This will drive ratings. This will drive gate receipts. This will drive sponsorship. So it's not. I actually think this is good. You want managers like me in that space that are actually going to raise the profile of their talent. So, you know, what we do from here will be interesting. But I would think that I will be involved in those conversations with the UFC moving forward in terms of his matchup. But that's a conversation to have with Tom and Andy and the team.

So do you think they'll be receptive to that? I've been doing this long enough to where I know if they don't like a manager to their don't like a representative, they just tell the fighter we're not talking to him, you figure it out. What do you think will happen when Tom says, I want you to speak to Eddie? Well, I hope we can have a professional conversation. I mean, why shouldn't they? I mean, we're just going to just sort of say, no, no, we're not going to speak to them, maybe. But, you know, we've got some big decisions to make in the respect of what we do next.

You know, we are probably on the verge of returning to training. And Tom, you know, knows when he'll get back into the octagon. And he's looking forward to that, especially now. But we've got to do what's right. You know, he's just coming off a really bad injury where whoever he fights next, as always, is going to be very dangerous. And, you know, we just, I don't want to go too deep into the money around these, these fights because that's not really what we're here to do. But there is a part of me as a

promoter that understands the financials and understands the model that makes me want to go out and go to war for Tom Aspinall. So when he comes to you and says, or comes to them, I should say, and says, I want you to speak to Eddie. And there could be a potential standoff here. Potentially. Potentially. But you know what, Ariel? That's okay. Tom, Tom has no fear of that. I mean, is at the stage now where he wants to be, firstly, respected for everything that happened, secondly, respected as the UFC heavyweight champion. And thirdly, and this seems to be a regular trend at the moment, wants to be respected in terms of his commercial value. But we also understand he has a contract. So there has to be a balance and there will be some very difficult

conversations, but right now, rather than going to war with potentially going to war with Andy Aspinall, it goes to war with Andy Aspinall, Eddie Hearn and Matron. Could I ask? That's really. When you, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you there. What did you want to say? No, that's really the crux of it. We're on the team.

So this is his new team. This is his new representation. we've talked about the business of MMA versus the business of boxing before when you actually looked at a UFC contract perhaps for the first time were you even more surprised at the breakdown and the clauses and all that stuff

than you were when we were just talking about and based on what you knew just being in the space I've said it before like you can't the decision of how to pay fighters the margins that are paid to fighters from the pot of revenue is completely up to the UFC and the business.

Right. Now, what they've done is they've created a fantastic business where young fighters dream to sign one of those contracts. Obviously, it's difficult for me because I come from a world where, you know, if a fighter was generating that much revenue into a show, they would be making five, six, six, six, seven times more than they're making in those UFC contracts. As I said the other day, I've got guys, you know, Tom Aspinall headlined the O2 arena and, you know,

he, they actually broke records for the gate at the O2 arena. It was on pay-per-view in the UK. It was on, you know, ESPN at the time in America. He's making less money than, probably half the amount of money that I would pay a guy to fight for the British title at your call Bethanyl Green in front of 1,200 people. Like, it just, but again, it's their business. It's not like, there's no rule in place that the model has to be like this. But, you know, I look at it.

And by the way, this isn't, a lot of people have said, oh, Eddie Hearn's going to move into LMA. It's inevitable. No, what I'm actually going to do here is I'm going to learn. Because what you're not going to get me doing is sitting there like Dana in the boxing and putting out all these notes of the press comments. He boxed. Yeah, he, no, he's a, you know, I need to know everything.

And it's going to take me a little bit of time to get my teeth into it. But what I know is inside out is business. And I look at these shows and these numbers. And, you know, again, it's, you can't, the UFC have got away with it. It's what they do. It's why they've making an absolute fortune, you know, check their numbers. huge in the organization, but I just can't see a world now, especially with them in boxing and they're paying, you know, they'll be paying, I don't know, Conner Ben 10, 15 times more than

the UFC heavyweight champion going in with a, you know, a rights fee of tens of tens of millions from Paramount, a gate of 10 million or a site fee of 20 or 30 million, making 10 times less. It's like they're going to have big problems in that respect. And I think moving forward, that's going to be more interesting with young fighters coming into the system who might not be willing to sign up to a contract like that. So, you know, again, I can't have a go at them and say it's like they're breaking any rules. They're not. They've got away with it and it's their model. But I feel the movement.

We've had, I think actually today was one more. dozen fighters approach us from the UFC asking to speak to us, have representation, you know, could we just educate them a little bit about the space, what's going on? We need some help. We're not going to sign all those guys, but we will be signing a handful more of UFC fighters, no doubt about it, because it's an interesting space for us. So, yeah, like when I saw the contracts, the contracts is a contract. You know, you know the reputation of the contracts, but people still sign them. So it's on the fighters, really.

They're the ones who sign the contract, and they're the terms that have been offered by the UFC. Can I ask who has reached out? No. Can I ask who you're interested in signing? I'm interested in signing anybody that has something a little bit special. Have any of those types of people reached out?

Yes. surprising ones? Not really, to be honest with you, because you see it. I mean, you know, you only have to be on social to see the unrest among the fighters right now. But some are speaking out and some on. You know, some are afraid. I mean, you've got some people, there's so much contradiction going on among people, especially people who, you know, are on the payroll of the UFC.

I mean, even Dana White. Dana White sits on a press conference last night and he says, you know, Connor Ben making all this money, it's great for UFC fires. Like, how? I mean, basically every UFC fire is looking at that going, this just doesn't make sense. And you can't just hide behind the fact of, oh, Turkey's paying that bill. So it's not really, no, it's the same company.

It's, I mean, so I'm enjoying sitting back looking at all the press conferences and just being baffled by what I'm hearing. and probably for the first time in my career, and this was very much the case with the Tom Aspinall stuff, I'm going to work in some silence. I need to get this right, and it's going to be very, very interesting what's about to unfold over the next couple of months.

And I can't just be a big mouth, loud mouth, telling everybody what I'm going to do because I get so excited. But right now I'm looking at the landscape going, And this is crazy what I'm saying. It's almost like a revolution. And it's going to be really interesting. You were one of the first people to say there's going to be unrest once they start paying a lot for these boxers.

And I'm starting to hear now that a lot of the fighters are being told like, yeah, we've got 15 for you, right? Because that's now the new number. And a lot of these guys, I like Connor a lot, Connor Ben. They're bigger stars than him. They've done more than him. And they're like, wait a second. If you're giving 15 to that guy, I should get 30. I should get 75.

Do you think they expected that? Do you think they expected this backlash or did they think that fighters would maybe say like this has nothing to do with that? Like they should have seen this coming, right? I felt that when they came into the space that the last thing they wanted to do was overpay fighters, boxers, because their existing UFC roster are going to go, what is going on? And but, you know, when they do overpay fighters, boxes, I don't mind because it's not sustainable. And it's not a proper business. It's just a business that's going to hemorrhage,

you know, millions and millions of dollars. We've seen it so many times before. You know, we saw it with PBC when Waddleham Reed, you know, made the investment. We saw it with the zone when we started out. You know, you overpay fighters, you paid a wrong money. You're losing a fortune. We did it. PBC did it. And now T.K.O will do if they want to be aggressive to that level. So, I don't mind it at all. But it's going to cause the major problems across their other organizations because we're seeing it already.

And what you're seeing at the moment is just a rumble, you know, of what is probably about to happen. Can you educate us someone of Tom Statcher on the fight cards that he's competing in? What number should be attached to his fight purse? Is he a 10 million... And times what's making in his contract?

Ten times. Yeah. And what is that? I'll give you a clue, right? If I had an MMA business, I would be paying Tom Aspinall 10 times what he's making. I could ask you now as his representative. Because that's the margins that we operate on.

Inboxing and we'd be more than happy to operate on in MMA. So, you know, I mean, listen, don't get me wrong. One thing that they're very good at is driving revenue. I mean, you know, huge rights fees from Paramount. All we hear about is this new deal, was it 7.7 billion, so much more money into the sport. Is that going to be funneled into the fighters? You know, and one thing they are very good at these guys is driving revenue. But we know that if we had the same model, we would be paying fighters 80% of the pot and not 20% of the pot.

But, you know, that's. that's not on the horizon. I'm not sitting here saying, we're going into MMA and we're going to give all the fights. We'll learn and we'll understand. And perhaps in the future, you will see us in that space.

But, you know, in answer to your question, if the same revenue is in the pot, we would be paying close to 10 times more. How many fights has he ever left? I don't think I'm going to start talking about his contractual situation. He has fights left with the ULFSI.

and it's not again this isn't like oh we got to get him out of his contract oh no no we just we just really want to be respected and and what i actually want to do is i want to show the value that we can bring like i'm going to turn tom aspinall into the biggest star that i can and in turn one the ufc should be very happy about that and two they should recognize the star that he is and the way that that star will rise over the coming months, you will see it. Got some big things to announce over the next couple of weeks for Tom. You're going to see him across broadcast,

you're going to see new sponsorship deals, you're going to see him everywhere, and you're going to see a guy that's getting what he deserves and the treatment that he deserves. I'm assuming the answer to this question is yes, but I'm just trying to get the whole picture. As you may know, in the UFC, there's something called the Champions Clause.

You can't just fight out your deal and walk away with the belt and throw it in the bin, so to speak. not really something that, you know, happens in boxing because the whole landscape is different. Does he have that as well? So in other words, let's say he has, I don't know, two, three, four fights left. It can't just be fight out those fights. Then there's that whole period that he has to wait sometimes as long as an... I'm not going to get into his contract.

I'm aware of that stuff. We'll have to see how it plays out. I mean, look, at the moment, we're excited to return. That's all I can tell you. And it's not a case of, you know, we're screaming and shouting. we want out, we're not happy, we're disg-like, he's disappointed at the way he's been treated. And I don't blame him.

He's had no support at all around this situation. And I know, and I think you know as well, he's a good guy. And he's a guy with integrity. You know, he's a guy that is 100% bang on, tough as nails, and we'll fight anybody. and the aim is to get back in there as soon as possible. Have you heard from the UFC or anyone at TKO since this news came out? No.

No messages or anything. I wouldn't expect. I mean, there's no reason for them to reach out. Have you reached out yet? No. When he told you that he has not talked to Dana White in any way, shape or form, text, phone call, WhatsApp, since the incident, right, since the fight, as a promoter who takes care of fighters and knows how.

fighters feel after bad moments and stuff. What was your reaction? Yeah, but I think Tom, Tom explained me well. By the way, Tom is really diplomatic on stuff like this. Like, he says, look, I don't know if Dana talks to other fighters. Like, he's never really spoken to me. So I don't know if it's his job to reach out to me. I mean, I'm very different. You know, I will stand up there on the press conference, Diaz, and say, this kid, you know, like, watch the, if that was me in this situation. Watch the footage back. Like this guy literally had both fingers like etched into the back of his eyeballs. Like anybody can see this is horrendous. And the fact that he went away and had all these multiple operations, I guess you would

expect maybe someone to reach out. But again, that's their organization area. I'm not, I'm not going to see it. I can't believe Dana White never reached out to Tom Aspinall. Maybe he just doesn't do that. Everybody's different. You know, I mean, maybe that's like, you know, Andy, said Hunter reached out to Andy they've had some conversations so I don't know I don't know how involved

he is with the UFC fighters as in actually having caring conversations with them maybe he just sees him at a press comments and shakes around and goes good luck son

you know I mean you know I think I can't comment on that because I just don't know what he does with other fighters but surprising given the amount of operations that Thomas had. For me, it was just the way he was really dismissed. And, you know, Tom, Tom doesn't have

the PR and the promotional artillery behind him to fight back. He was like, he was like a one-man band fighting against the world. And I, what I've learned over the last couple of weeks is the narrative and the propaganda that spun. Like, it's pretty, it's, one, it's just baffling most of it. And two, it's pretty powerful. So, like, if you're a, one-man band on your own and you're not going out there every day speaking to the media like you can become overrun and that's what happened with tom aspen he's sitting there just thinking i can't believe what's going on it you know goes up to the the hospital for another surgery and all he's reading is oh you know he's just been just basically like dismissed that he's just

nothing it's nothing and it's not it's a very serious injury you mentioned the uh the press conference yesterday dan has been asked a couple of times about you but I thought yesterday's comments were the most telling and dismissive of you. I want to play the clip and get your response to one part of what he had to say. Here you go. It's curious what your thoughts are about Eddie Hearn, getting into managing and going after Tom Aspinall. And, you know, does that make relationships difficult? It's like a rival promoter plus a manager.

Is he a rival promoter? He's another promoter. I haven't seen a fucking rival anything from Eddie Hearn or any of these other guys. He's a manager now. Who gives us shit? We deal with lots of different people. I wouldn't call Eddie Hearn a rival anything. Dana, going back to you...

He's the manager. There's a fucking million of them, and we deal with them all. And, you know, have you ever heard, you know, us having problems with dealing with a manager? What is Eddie Hearn going to bring to the management table

that we haven't seen in the last 25 years? No, nothing? Crickets? Nobody? What's your response to that, Eddie? I mean, I'd be honest. Like, I couldn't. things couldn't be going better for me at the moment with him just basically can't keep my name out of his mouth.

I mean, I'll be honest. Boxing's not for him, right? He's the worst business in the world. And I didn't expect him to implode this early. And I almost sit there. I mean, that was one clip, but there's been four or five clips that I bought. I mean, he literally hasn't stopped talking about me.

I mean, he's called me a pussy five or six times. he's called me out for a fight, a fight, right? And then he says that I'm not competition. I'll be honest with you. I agree with him. Because in boxing right now, as I've said before, he cannot lace my boots. He's sitting there and spinning a narrative

like he's created these unbelievable blockbuster shows in stadiums. He ain't out the garage. literally four shows in and absolute bang average content. I mean, to say that we aren't a competitor of his, just is the most bizarre statement because we're coming off sellout shows in the UK, sellout shows in America, you know, big world championship fights. He's literally, I mean, the best way that I could describe what Zuffer doing at the moment, is if we were in COVID right now,

I would actually say they're doing okay. Because that's what it is. And they come out and they've got no vision. Hey, you've literally, you can't even be bothered to leave your office where you've got 200 people watching supposedly a world championship fight. But by the way, wasn't actually a world championship fight. and of the four cards that I've seen,

nothing. Talk about I haven't done anything or impressed them. What have we seen? But honestly, if you listen to it, it is literally like every show they've done is a stadium sellout

with pound for pound stars in unification fights and it's just set the sport alike. They have done nothing at all. And, you know, all I've seen is Dana coming out, losing his rag, blood pressure going through the roof, calling me this, calling me that, but not actually doing anything.

When's the next shot? It's a good question. I think there is one for April. Well, they have April 11th. April 11th, right? It's not. Well, aren't they claiming? Didn't Mark Shapiro say that?

Yeah, they're claiming. They claim the on an investigal. Right. Let's see, yeah? I see if they're the promoters of that show. Do you think they are? No. I know they're not.

Also, also, it's not their show, is it? It's a ring card. Right. I mean, that's like when Dana goes, you know, I usually see my office. I've got the Canelo Crawford thing there when I did that show. No, no, no. Turkey did that show. That was another ring re-ad season card.

Tyson Fury against MacMadov is not a Zuffa show. it's a turkilla shake ring magazine card so show me what you are doing that is so special because at the moment I just can't see it I can't see it at all when he calls you just a manager

how do you feel about that that's right that's fair cop he's just trying to you know like shoot his shot in the respect of like having a dig and stuff like that but yeah but I'm, I mean, I'm not a manager. I have a management company within my sports business that represents athletes,

some of which are champions within his organisation. But that's fair. I mean, obviously, I'm a promoter of boxing. You know, we own governing bodies of other sports. We represent athletes in other spaces. And now, like I said, we have a management representation company that will be representing a number of UFC. fighters.

How'd you feel about how the whole Jayopataya thing played out with the IBF? It's an IBF fight, it's not an IBF, and in the end he says yesterday the guy came, asked for a per diem and left and said we're not. Again, in my opinion, just total propaganda. I mean, what I don't understand is you

literally came out and said the governing bodies are a disgrace. They're not welcome in what you're doing and you will not be acknowledging them. Now you're crying because they didn't sanction one of your fights. Which one is it? Like if you actually break down the messaging,

what is this whole thing? It's a league? Then what is it? Just like 100 fighters, most of who you've never heard of, just bundled up having random fights in a garage? I mean, that, that, like, you know, you clearly said

you will not be recognising governing bodies. Now, you're slating the governing body for not sanctioning in the fire. And, you know, I feel sorry for Jaya Pettaya. Because Jaya Pettaya was told he will be defending his IBF well tile. Jaya Pettire had a dream to unify the division and become undisputed. Jaya Pettar woke up this morning with no world championship bill. And one thing I'll tell you, and I don't know the ins and outs,

but one thing I will tell you about the IBF and Daryl peoples, they are the straightest organization you will ever work with. And to spin a story of the supervisor turning up to basically try and steal $200 before we flew back to New Mexico, the whole thing's a propaganda mission. It doesn't work like that. Darrell peoples will have a reason that sanctioning was withdrawn. And probably the fact is, you just can't have another title on the line, principal title, over the governing body championship of the IBF.

And by the way, what are you worried about? Because this is what you want. Right? So you don't want the IBF. You don't want the WBC. You don't want the... So why are you worried about... Just forget it.

Gai Obatar is now the Zuffer Cruiserweight World Champion. So look, build your belt. And let's see if other fighters are happy enough to lose their world championships or never be able to unify the division or never be able to become an undisputed champion and that they've had to reverse on that situation because they've realised the importance

of what those belts mean to fighters and that's where I was gutted for Gai last night breaking down in tears after the fight that he's lost his championship and how hard he's worked for that championship look at the man's face of what that belt means to him he's not sitting there going I lost the IBF belt, but what a result.

I've got this other belt now, this black thing with diamonds in front of me, a Zuffer belt. He's devastated that he's lost his world championship. What did you think when you saw him come out? He had some choice words about you last week saying that, you know, you weren't his friend and all this stuff, and you didn't back him and you're slagging him off and all that. I'm sure you saw this on Talksport. Were you blindsided? He's a very fiery character, even when we brought him over to fight Jordan Thompson.

He always kind of felt like he was very. being sort of set up a little bit. I mean, he was a 10 to one on favorite going into the fire. But no, I think we've done a decent job. To be honest, I haven't had Joe on the contract for a year, to be honest with you. So I haven't really been involved, particularly in his last two fights, Mick Francis and Spencer Brown have done them. We backed him a little bit, but I never really spoke badly about it. And what I said was, he just wasn't drawing and it wasn't really working for him in Australia so he had to do something. I think he made the right move.

I actually think Zufa did a good job promotionally around the event on Jai. I think they did a good job. But he's lost his world championship. And I don't know what's going to happen now. But that's okay. Unless they just completely U-turn and say,

no, we actually want the governing bodies now. but again that'll go against everything they've said from the start and they're just they're kind of like learning on the job if you like and they're driving down this road they're reversing down there they're turning right they're in another dead end they're coming back and then they do a press comments and say that no one's a threat no one's a rival because look at what we're doing

what what are you doing do you believe connor ben agreed to a one-fight deal I can't really comment on that area because there's a lot of ongoing stuff around it Like what? I've heard you say this and that you feel like it's a little bit, it was a little bit, I don't know, what the best word is deceitful or something. You're insinuating that something was done to make you guys. I'm insinuating. We have to see because things have to play out in a certain way that was represented. Is it possible they front loaded the deal so that you couldn't match it? And then on the back end, they're going to kind of space it out so that it'll be a more normal Zufa boxing deal. I mean that that would be an accusation that the only time will tell. All I will say is that what's done in the dark will come to life.

And, you know, in these kind of situations, there's no hiding place if anything was done unto all. I'm not necessarily suggesting that. But we will be across everything. Are you exploring legal options? Yes. And the legal options would be for what? like torturous interference. Oh, I just think, as I said before, we have to make sure that everything that was represented

to us is the truth. Okay. That's it. Are you not going to work with Keith Conley, the manager who orchestrated this deal any longer? I saw a photo with him and Edgar Berlanga and Richardson Hitchens saying big news coming. Is he done working with you in Matron? Yes.

Yes. I mean, at the same time, I can't sit here and say, because you give these interviews, and in two or three years' time, like things change and they said, oh, you, and then they run an interview about, oh, you said this. The end of the day, like, Keith, you know,

Keith's for Keith, and Keith would have done a deal with these guys to load up some other guys. You'll probably see Richardson and Edgar maybe signed for Zuffer or whatever. look, you know, I'm not going to fall out with Keith, but he's just not someone that I really want to work with, to be honest with you. I would never rule it out, Ariel, because I just think I can never do that. But if you ask me, do I want to work with him again?

No. Do does I want to work with him again? No. And they won't even mind me saying it. I mean, that's the reality of the situation. But, you know, each to their own. Not going to sit here and call him out and, you know, you know, he's got a job to do.

Just the disappointing, and I know what, in this situation, Keith doesn't really understand what happened and what we did. You know, because he wasn't,

he's only just popped up. Popped up when we were filling stadiums and just took a few quid. You know? He weren't, he weren't mopping up the tears. You know, he weren't raising the spirits.

He weren't putting his hand in his pocket and bailing people out. and sitting on the front line, just taking grenade after grenade after grenade after grenade and, you know, standing there like backfink, just, you know, shielding the kid. So he just turned up with his sunglasses on and said, yeah, baby, I'm Keefey, baby, I'll show you the money,

which is not a difficult job, in my opinion. So, but because he never went through it, he, it's difficult to have those conversations with him. there's other people that went through it. I mean, there's a lot of people from his team that have reached out to me. Really disappointed of what he's done, you know? But it's life, honestly, I'll always remember it, but I can't tell you I'm waking up every morning, like moping around.

It's just disappointing, that's all. But, you know, to stick up for Keith a little bit in this, he doesn't really know the depth. that I went to. When's the last time you had a phone call conversation with Connor Ben? Months ago. So even in the aftermath of all this, I've seen every interview you've done, there's still not been any sort of conversations.

No, he texts me about a second before the announcement. You know, the usual, you know, everything you've done for me, I'll never forget it. And, you know, I'll really still want you on the team. you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I just, you know, I went, I went back and just, I told him the truth. What did you say? I'm not going to go into a personal conversation, but I just told him I was disappointed. You know, I just told him, I just, quite honestly, I just can't believe it.

I can't believe it. And even now, though it's like, again, I'll always remember it. I still can't believe it. I'm completely and utterly baffled. But it's happened, isn't it? it and it's like if you're okay with that then that's on you and clear you said let's talk face to face and he said no yeah we got an email and then i spoke to the lawyers but i thought i thought i'm i'm having a row with the lawyer and keith connolly i'm thinking i don't even want to speak to you guys

just want to speak to connor so i'll text him i said listen i think after everything that i've done for you i think i deserve a conversation and he said i think you're probably a bit of emotional right now, you know, let's wait till it's all calm down. And I'm like, oh my God. And then, yeah, by this, by this stage, you see, what probably hurt a little bit more was they were doing all this behind my back anyway for weeks and weeks and weeks. Do you know what I mean? And it was just, it was, if you saw the way it was set up and that's why we'll, you know, we'll see what happens. You know that this this was even more scheme than like just just a random a random approach, you know. So you just have to remember these things and nothing surprises me in boxing.

Nothing surprised me in life. But I have to say, and it is. And that's what I said before, you know, I'll put it on myself. I blame myself because I made the mistake of misunderstanding someone's personality and character, but more importantly, just thinking this is one person that would never betray me after what happened.

I was wrong. How long do you think you had been in the works for? Oh, listen, they're at it all the time. You can see, even before this happened, you see things. You know, you don't forget everybody talks. Everybody talks.

Oh, we see him in the room going into the room with him. You know, it's like, but, but, but, but, you know, I know that I know what Connor's like. He's, he's, he's, he's going to be having those conversations. But like others, and, you know, he won't mind me saying it, but, you know, AJ, AJ had, an approach around the back a couple of weeks ago. Do you know how quickly sent me the message, the screenshot? Seconds. Let me know what you want to reply.

and it's like we're a team mate till the wills come off we are a team and I've got your back always and that's just how it is but unfortunately

the mind gets corrupted the greed comes in and you just forget how to treat people and it's not even you know people say well I get both sides of the story you know you've got to look after yourself,

you've got to look after, you know, the money and the family and I could not agree more. I'm the biggest advocate of that you'll ever find. All you've got to do is come on to me and say, Eddie, you're my guy. I want to let you know I've had this. You tell me what I should do. And I say, right, go out there.

By the way, this deal, if it really was done with Turkey, yellow shape. I could have done that deal anyway. But it was the glamour of it. It was the stuction of it. And they just, they just wanted to do it. So, but, and by the way, if I can't get anywhere near the deal, I tell him to go. But we have the, we have the conversation. We look each other in the eye. And I actually would say to a fire, especially someone I'm close to, you've got to do it, mate. We could look at it with AJ against Jake Paul, exclusive to the zone. That was a horrible situation for me as well, because I had to go to our exclusive broadcaster and somehow try and work out a deal where everybody was happy.

And I'll tell you saying now, there was absolutely no way I wasn't making sure that AJ was getting that fight and accepting that offer. Because it was the right deal for him. And if this was the right deal for him, good luck to him. But I just feel like this was such an extraordinary circumstance, like the whole of the whole thing but you know i'm not people think that i should sit here and slate him and say this and say that you're never you're never going to hear that for me all i'd ever say was i'm really disappointed and i just think it shows the mark of the man and i'll let you go very soon i appreciate this very much just

curious if it truly is a one-fight deal and he says i want to come back after that fight once it's all said and done are you open to working with him again same same thing as what i said earlier i don't i don't the same way about Connor that I do to Keith Connolly. But again, a million miles away because there'd have to be a conversation. Like until you're actually, you know, it's not like, oh, there could be an opportunity with Eddie. I'll give him a call. It's like you have to actually accept that you've done wrong.

I think one of the problems is I don't think he thinks he's done anything wrong. So I just, I don't know. like you know i i i was a very very very very fond of connor ben like to the point where you know there there were some very very serious conversations that we had and very emotional conversations during the journey where i had to make some very tough decisions about what i was going to do you know um and i decided to back here him and despite everybody saying to me, mate, just leave it, just let him deal with it. Just you don't have to get involved in all this.

You know, all the advice for me was, this is terrible for you. Like, why are you coming out and just fighting his corner every day, every day on every platform in these big interviews? Just leave it. I say, no, but we're a team and I've got his back and I won't stop fighting for him. So that's what makes it particularly difficult. If that didn't happen, do you think you would have been motivated to work with Tom? Good question.

If the opportunity was available, definitely. But I might not have been thinking that laterally. You know what I mean? I mean, this is, you know, this is the move from me around Tom definitely had an element of Dana White behind it, no doubt. But not in a personal way, more in a personal way, more in a, a storyline. Because that's what it is.

All the worlds are stage. And right now, all everybody is talking about is me be Dana, in the ring and out the ring. And I'm happy with that because, you know,

how many times I said to you, Ariel, great promoter, huge organisation, smart people. You're never going to hear me criticize. Now, I'll give my honest opinion about that boxing product. I think it's bang average. But as a company, tremendous company.

And it's, you know, I wouldn't use the word honor, but it's a privilege to be in this race with them. But I back myself every day or the week because they're just not boxing people. They just, you know, you've just got to listen, listen to the interviews, listen to how they talk about boxing. And also, I'm listening to, I don't know how your world works, right? And I know you're not really involved in that world because you've been pushed out as well. But it's like, no one really asks a serious question.

No? So it's like that asked. I just want to interrupt you. There's 10,000 people watching our show right now. We ain't pushed out of nothing, Eddie, all right? I just want to make that very clear. We're not putting them. No, I'm kidding.

I'm just messing out of that conversation with them. I'm just messing with you. I'm just trying to big myself up here. What pisses me off every. When they do an interview, I come on here and I'll speak to you live, right? Yep, yep. For an hour or whatever.

Have I ever contacted you and gone, all right, you can only ask certain questions. You have to send it through to me before, and this is what annoys me is. They're doing it. Dana's doing interviews with UK outlets and they're telling them the questions they're allowed to ask. and they're asking to see the interview before it even goes out where muggins here is just sitting in an airport lounge with cole McGuigan in my face for 50 minutes like i don't even know what i'm saying i'm just telling you the truth from here so it's like i'm listening to you know these guys asking questions and it's like no one's pushing him no one's really actually asking him any serious questions so like what about this question what's next for jai alpatiah

Give me five opponents he could fight. You don't even know. It's the mad thing about it. But no one really asks any proper questions. And all it is is a huge machine that you can't actually get close to and ask the real questions. So like if I'm on media row, I'm asking a question. If Tom Aspinall, he's driving more revenue to a pot than Connor Ben. why is he making 10 times less money?

You answer that? Because if there's ever a conversation with us, I can sit down and say, hold on a minute, look at the money that's in a pot for this Tom Aspinall fight. How on earth can you pay in that as mainly been? And they will say, sorry, mate, it's in his contract.

And then we go from there. What's most fascinating to me about all this, in the middle, if it's Eddie V. Dana, is Turkey-eushy. and there was once a time I've heard you say this Eddie I've heard you say this there's more to it than loving it there's more to it than love

whose side is he on he has to pick a side at some point no I'm not so sure I don't I mean look don't get me wrong look he's they are seller financially invested in the company right right so obviously there is

that element to it I don't know like you know we do a lot of business with Turkey we just extended the snooker the darts obviously we've got an agent J deal potentially coming up as well. They sponsor our shows. I don't know.

And I keep saying to people, like people try and go to you and go, oh, it looks like Turkey's done you dirty here. The difference between Turkey and Connor Ben is, I expect Turkey at our shake every now and again, I believe we're fine to swear on here, to fuck me, right?

No problem. And that's just how it is. but I know that. Right? And I like the guy. I like the atmosphere. I like the banter. And I love the business.

And I love the opportunity. So I don't have an issue with it. And if it dried up tomorrow, well, guess what? We have a five-year deal with the zone, probably 40 shows a year, and we run a billion-pound business. No turkey, no problem.

but we we like it and if the opportunity is there and a relationship's there long may it continue but i can't decide whether turkey wants to back matrim or not we just have to make sure we look after our business and we have solid foundations for our fighters and we can bring them through pay them the most amount of money and give them every opportunity to create their legacy and chase their dreams and we will continue to do that as a business now their boxing business is really all driven by Turkey and seller. Because guess what? Without Turkey and without seller,

TKO would not be in the boxing business. They just wouldn't. So, you know, and I've got to be honest with you. Because I know Turkey Al-a-Shake, and I know what he expects, and I know the vision that he has for boxing, he will be sitting there watching the Zuffer shows, completely unimpressed by what he's,

That's the truth. He loves big shows. He loves great fights. He loves deep cards, big names, sold out stadiums, and the buzz of boxing. And this is lazy. This is what this is. This is lazy. Two last quick ones.

Katie Taylor tweet last week. Got us very excited. What are you trying to tell us there? What's happening? She's already said this is it. One more. What does this mean right here? So what that means is see that?

Yep. That's boxing. That's sport. That's legacy. That's dreams. That's not lazy. That's a shitload of work to make sure that one of the greatest athletes of all time gets her ultimate dream. And I have to deliver Crow Park.

I have to. Are you working on that? Yes, absolutely. Wow. For this summer. Yes. I have to do it. I have to do it.

I have to find a way. Because I'll never be able, say never be able to forgive myself, but I'll never be able. If I don't give this everything, if I don't try my very hardest to make this a reality, I'm not doing Katie justice and I'm not doing myself justice. Because this would be the greatest sporting event ever in the history of Ireland. And when that picture got sent through to me by Brian Pied,

tears, it made the hairs on my arms and my neck stand up. And all I could think about was watching Katie Taylor walk through the tunnel at Croke Park in front of 70 or 80,000 people and just literally floods of tears from an entire nation. And I'm like, I phone Brian. I went, we've got to do it. So it's on me. And others, but it's, it's, there's a. There's a. huge part on me to try and make this happen. How far long are you? How close? I mean, I think, you know, there's been conversations for a while with Crowe Park and now they've picked back up again.

I feel like this time there's more momentum, you know, there's a real swell from the whole country of this also needs to happen. Like the way I feel about it, I feel like Katie feels like that, the country feels like that. And of course, she's at the benefit of the next Netflix shows. So, you know, these, these conversations were really pre-Serrano 2. So now you've got the huge audience for Tyson against Paul that she was on the co-main event for and the headline fight for Taylor Serrano 3. So her stock, her star has risen immensely.

And I feel like now's the time. And, you know, you would effectively be coming out and saying, this is it. This is the last one. and I just think it would be a huge event and who would deserve it you know Ariel I mean who deserves it more than her in that respect like it would just be incredible opponent I mean she's got about 20 mandatories

but you know you obviously want to have an opponent that is compelling is competitive there's a storyline behind so yeah honestly nothing really discussed or spoken about an opponent. It's really trying to get the conversations with Croke Park into that being a possibility

before we move forward with that. Last one, I promise, and again, thank you so much for this. If I were to set the line right now, you know how that works, right? Betting lines and whatnot? Yes? Yeah. Eddie Hearn, Dana White,

boxing match. Who's the favorite? Who's the dog? He called it on. And now, of a sudden. I saw the favorite though going into that. What are you?

A minus 500? What are you, Eddie? Come on. Don't do the thing you saw the clips from 15 years ago. I know you're trying. Who's the favorite going into this fight? What is the line? What are the odds?

It's competitive. I do. I mean, I think it's like an even money fight. Oh, okay. I like this. Listen, I'm limited, right? I can fight a little bit. But I'm not, you know, I'm, as Dana says,

I'm a little bit of a pussy in that respect. Now, he's this tough guy, savage. You know, I mean, and those sparring videos were horrible, but you can see when someone can fight a little bit, right? They can move a little bit. The head moves in the right times and the right places. So I think actually it would be a good fight, but I was getting quite excited, to be honest with you.

I mean, he called me out for a fight and I was thinking, oh, my God, and he was like Netflix, this, you know, it would be massive, blah, blah, blah. And then he's like saying, oh, it would have to go on an undercard. I was thinking, no, no, no. I was getting excited. Show me the money, Dana. But, yeah, too big, too young, too fresh, too handsome. Eddie Hearn with him inside three, I think.

Brutal knockout. I think it will be competitive. But I'll be honest with you, like the way things are going right now, I don't think it's a good idea for Dana because I've noticed the angle. the blood pressure like this is going to do you know he's been in boxing for two months

is this started in February wasn't it or January or something like that so yeah two months like have you ever seen him spiral like he's spiraling at the moment we haven't even like we've literally the gun has just gone off

we haven't even we're not even I mean I think we might still be in neutral I was going to say we're in first He is going to absolutely hate this battle is going to be long. It's going to be intense and it ain't going to go away. And guess what? I've had these same battles for 16 years, whatever, it's been time and day after day after day after day. And I'm looking at it.

You know what, honestly, I woke up this morning and I looked at him and I thought, I actually felt quite bad. I was like, I told everybody and I told, I think I might have even told him how bad this business is and what it will do to you. And I'm seeing happen to him, what I've seen happen to so many people before. And I'm looking at the guy, I'm thinking, this ain't good for you, mate. Like, forget fighting me because you're going to need extra medicals. Like right now, your blood pressure is boiling to levels that I don't think it's boiled

recently and it's going to get worse and worse and worse because he can't control it you see these these press comments you see this it's all about control and right now you don't have control and you can see we are you know there's no competition we're what for what you've done what all you've done is you've done those four shows what are they what you're saying you're saying after those four shows you're now number one in boxing no no mate you ain't even number two and you ain't even number three and you ain't even number four you're right down the pile and that boils your blood more than anything else that you ain't number one and guess what you ain't gonna be number one and it's gonna burn burn burn and you're gonna see this implosion getting worse and worse and

worse and worse till you get to the point where he turns around he goes do you know what fuck this boxing game oh just give me the UFC I can do whatever I want It don't work like that. So, again, nothing personal. But right now, we're going to the gym. I'm going to, you know, start working on our boxing, just in case we get the call. We'd do good numbers there, wouldn't it?

Oh, my gosh, yes. How big would that be? Gigantic. He's talking about first fight on the prelims. If there was, fuck, the prelims, it's main event, mate. Hell, yeah. Stadium show. By the way, if there's 100 million,

Like if he was promoting the fight and there was a hundred million of revenue, he might give me 500 grand. That would be, I saw what you did there. If I was promoting a fight and there was 100 million of revenue, we'd be splitting 40.

Not splitting 40. We'd get 40 each. Yes. So maybe he wants me to promote. I don't know. But I don't know. He called me out and I got excited, but then he backtracked.

But, you know. Well, he is right in one respect. He's 50. Six. Something, yeah. I'm 46. We are probably a little bit too old for it, but my God, it would do some numbers.

Oh my gosh. It would be tremendous. Absolutely tremendous. Eddie, this is tremendous. Actually, I would smash into pieces. This is the most interesting thing in combat sports. There's no doubt about it. Your newest client is standing by, so we have to get to him, Mr. Tom Aspinall.

And I would just like to say one thing about Tom Aspinall. Please. Tom Aspinall is a great man, right? Tom Aspinall. like the money that he's fought for and the way that he's fought through the system and the power that he's had behind him which actually doesn't even exist people need to start supporting and understanding this man and getting behind him because when I saw him like I said I saw a broken guy who was just constantly going to the specialist having operation after operation

after operation, while people were trying to spin a narrative that this guy just turned his back on a fire and actually he's not what he is, which is a tough man with integrity and massive balls that will fight anyone. And I'll tell you saying now, I'm going to do everything I can to make sure this man gets exactly what he deserves and make sure that he gets the respect of the organisation, but more importantly to respect of the people, because that's what is more important to him and that's what he deserves right he's a good honest man and he can beat them all and this journey for us is going to be so exciting and i'm really really proud forget the edd dana forget all that stuff i'm proud to represent tom aspinall and i promise you i will work my

bollocks off to get him everything he deserves that sounds good tom that sounds good that's all right I couldn't pass up this opportunity now. He's bored of me now. He's like, oh, not him again. I can't get away from him, you know, so. Eddie, you're the man. Thank you. I wanted to make this happen right here.

Appreciate that. That's got to feel good for Tom. Cheers, boys. Cheers, cheers, cheers. All right, Tom. Tom's, uh, Tom's Wi-Fi is going through it right now. He froze on us in the moment. We got the smile.

Oh, he froze on me there. We're going to get him right back. We got it there. We got it there. We had it. We're efforting it. I see a smiling. Tom Aspinall to my right.

But that was great stuff. That was amazing stuff from Eddie Hearn. That was vintage. That might have been the best one yet. And appreciate everyone who is stopping by. We got to get to the man of the hour, though. The reigning defending UFC heavyweight champion who will be joining us in a matter of seconds here.

You saw him there. He was right there. He was right freaking there. And great on the team for getting them up there, the three boxes. That stuff isn't easy to do on the fly. So I appreciate that very much. In a matter of seconds, We're going to be joined by Tom Aspinall.

I'm seeing all kinds of tweets right now. A very interesting tweet from John Jones. Perhaps we can react to it together. And also a very interesting tweet from Miranda Rousey. The Rousey one is shorter. And Ghanu versus Lins joins Rousie Krono on Netflix, May 16th. How's that for a BAMF-laden double header? That's what happens when you put fighters and fans ahead of shareholders

at most valuable promotions. P.S. UFC's White House car sucks. Middle finger, sunglasses emoji, middle finger. That's Ronda Rousey. That's one of the faces of the UFC once upon a time. We are working on Tom Aspinall. I can tell you that John Jones at 424 p.m. posted on X that he would like to be released from the UFC. Hey everyone, I wanted to address Dana White's comments from this past weekend because the truth matters to me and the fans. Dana, you were heated about why I'm not on the White House card, but let's clear something up. My team and I were actually negotiating with the UFC for that fight. Real negotiations. I even came down from my original number and what was I offered in return. I was low balled. Yes, I have arthritis in my hip and it's painful, but that doesn't mean I can't fight. So let me get this straight. If I had accepted the low ball offer, suddenly my hip would be fine and I'd be on the White House card. That doesn't make sense. I even received stem cell treatment last week to get ready for the White House card. And training camp was scheduled to start today. I was preparing to be ready.

I understand business deals fall through sometimes, but going out publicly and saying things that aren't true isn't right. After everything I've given to the UFC, the years, the title defenses, the fights, hearing that I'm done is disappointing, especially when as of recently as Friday, UFC was calling me trying to get me on that White House card for a much lower number. If the UFC truly feels like I'm done, then I respectfully ask to be released from my contract today.

No more spins, no more games. Thank you to the real fans. who know what's up, bones out. So back to back, you have a tweet from Ronda Rousey, who's one of the faces of the UFC saying, F you, and then you have John Jones, who I appreciate, backed up everything I said around three hours ago saying we were negotiating.

I was low-balled, meaning he believes he was low-balled, and if you don't want me to fight for you, if you don't think I can fight, release me. We'll talk more about that in a bit. For now, though, let us say hello, once again to the one and only the undisputed UFC heavyweight champion Tom Asmo. There he is. Hello, Tom.

Apologies for that. We had some technical issues. I only heard a little bit of Eddie's last bit and then it all started breaking up. Well, it was vintage Eddie Hearn. It was incredible stuff from Eddie. And part of the reason why I wanted you to hear it because I'm sure it felt really, really good to hear that type of stuff because you haven't heard a lot of that as of late from non-media members.

So Tom, we'll get into it because big news for you, a lot going on in your life. One thing I wanted to ask you up the top He's referred to you a couple times Including in that last answer As when he saw you, he felt like you were a broken man Was that a fair way to describe how you were feeling About a week ago when you sat down with him for the first time? I don't know if I was a broken man

But I definitely haven't been in my best spirits My mojo Has gone a little bit One sec, I've got to move this behind me This is a mess, one sec I'm not supposed to be in this room you see I'm supposed to be upstairs But my kids are asleep at this time

I get it. It's late. I feel like this is the room where you do the YouTube stuff, right? I feel like I've seen this couch before. Am I wrong? I feel like this is my living room. This is for me to watch-along stuff. But I wasn't, uh, my kids have recently been in this room, so it's a little bit of mess. I get it. Back to your mojo. So you say not broken, but the mojo needed to get back. Yeah, I've not, I mean, it's been a bit of a rough time, to be honest. I think I've cried about it enough publicly. So, yeah, it's been a rough time. Eddie's seen me over the last couple of weeks, got to know Eddie pretty good. Me and Eddie knew each other a little bit from around. He's been to a couple of our fights and stuff,

and obviously we are from the same country and moving similar kind of circles. So me and Eddie knew each other a little bit. We've got a few mutual friends and stuff, but I think it's a fair assessment to say that my... Mojo was gone a little bit. So he told us that he was going to Wood Warrington and Nottingham just a couple of weeks ago. Michael Ridout, who used to work for IMG, now DeZone, says, hey, have you talked to Tom, you should speak to Tom?

And my understanding was he then spoke to your father and then you. Is that your timeline? Is that how all this started? Or did you guys reach out to perhaps Michael to try to get a meeting with Eddie? As far as I'm away, that's what happened. I don't really know Michael too well. I've met him a couple of times. but he's friends, or he knows my dad at least.

I think those two speak a little bit. And yeah, I think mainly Michael's idea as far as I'm away. Wow. And so does he speak, does Eddie speak to your father first? Yeah, he's phoned to my dad a couple of times. Then we jumped on a Zoom. And to be honest, I wasn't really on board at first with it all. I'm sure Eddie told you, I didn't listen to Eddie's interview,

but I seen him say it a couple of times. I actually wasn't on board until we went and met in person, to be honest. I just didn't feel like that's what I needed right now, but obviously changed my mind. So he said that you told him that you were going to fly to Monaco to tell him thanks but no thanks, essentially. Yeah, pretty much. Like, we spoke a couple of times on the phone on a couple of meetings and stuff. And look, I've been a fan of Eddie. I've watched Eddie and been around Eddie.

to know what kind of guy is and know that he's my kind of person anyway. But I just didn't feel like I really wanted to be involved in all that stuff right now. So I wanted to see him face to face until it to really make a decision. So I didn't really go in there thinking I'm not going to do it. But I wasn't leaning that way, to be honest, when we flew to Monaco. And so how did he win you over? Because another thing that I said to Eddie was, I could think of every single manager under the sun has asked me over the years, hey, can you give me Tom's number?

Can you give me Andy's number? I want to represent Tom. He needs my help, this, that, and the other. And I know you guys are a tight-knit team. Your dad's your coach, and he does your business dealings, and it's worked. And so I was so surprised. Surprise maybe he's the best world. I was like, wow, they finally let someone in.

They finally let someone in. What was it about Eddie and the rest of the team at Matronum? I know Frank Smith was there, et cetera, that made you feel like, okay, it's time to bring someone else in. Yeah, like you said, we've met probably just about every MMA representation. person, whether it be a manager, commercial advisor, whatever you want to call it. If somebody represents athletes,

we've probably met just about everyone in the MMA space at this point, have meetings, had food, had a coffee, had a phone call, whatever. But I don't know, man, like something about Eddie and something about Frank and the whole team. Sometimes when you look across from somebody and spend real time with them, you

just get a good feeling from them and those are my kind of, those are definitely my kind of people. I just feel like instantly we're on the same wavelength, instantly the trust was there, I don't know what it is. You know, I'm sure you've experienced it before. Sometimes in life you meet people and you just click. And I felt like we all just clicks and it works. Michael Bissing said, quote, I can't help but wonder if Tom Aspinall is going to be the one suffering through this because he's basically going to be a pawn on a chessboard that Eddie Hearn is going to be moving around just to try to get to Dana White to cause problems and make life difficult for him. Do you feel like that's a fair assessment?

Well, it's definitely a worry that I had, but I don't worry about that anymore. I feel like people from the outside, whether it would be Bispin or anybody else, they don't know the ends and outside of the conversations that we've had, obviously. And I obviously feel comfortable with it. Otherwise, you know, I'm in a position in my career where I don't have to sign anything if I don't want. And obviously, I wanted to sign this. Otherwise, I wouldn't have to sign this. otherwise I wouldn't assign it. So yeah, very happy with it all, mate, very happy to be part of Matchroom, very happy to be working with Eddie, working with Frank, working with the rest of the team.

And this was just about making my team bigger. As far as media and commercial value and stuff like that, we've just got a really, really small team. And I wanted to widen that, to grow that. And I believe that Eddie and the guys at Matrim and the guys to do it with. As far as your business dealings, your contract negotiations, the fights and all that stuff, Do you want Eddie to handle that? So Eddie's a, Eddie in matchroom.

They're like commercial advisors for me. That's the role that they're going to play. They're going to advise. So my dad is still my manager. He's been my manager from the beginning. He will be my manager to the end. But if we need to tag Eddie in, we will tag him in. So if it's like the talks with the UFC and all that stuff,

your dad will still be the one speaking to them. Is that fair? That's fair. But if we need Eddie, Eddie's there for us as well. So I've got the back. back in of matchroom and Eddie Hearn. Have you or your dad heard from the UFC since this announcement? No.

Okay. I noticed you said something at the presser saying, you know, a lot of fighters, you know, it's one thing to talk about being unhappy about your pay on podcast, interviews, but like, what are you doing about it? Can I ask, what prompted you to say that? Why do you feel like that's the message coming off of this? Why do you feel that way right now? Well, there's always been a narrative, whether it would be public or private, between boxing and MMA and pay. Like, I think it's well enough publicised that MMA fighters do not earn as much as boxers when it comes to actually fighting people. And, look, as MMA fighters, that's what we signed up for.

We knew that from the beginning, and that's all good. but just with all the recent stuff that's coming out and the conversations that I've been having with Eddie and the team, I just realized that there's so much, like my earning potential is so much more than what I'm making in the UFC that I want to explore it and maximize my time in my career as much as I can. He told me just a bit ago that if you were a boxer fighting for him, you'd be making 10 times more than you're fighting now.

Do you agree with him? Do you think that you deserve to be making 10 times more than you're fighting now? then you're getting now, excuse me. Well, I don't know the exact numbers with boxing. I only know what I hear. Obviously, Eddie and Frank know. And when they were looking through my contract, they were just giggling.

They just kept through it. It was like I told them a joke or something. But like I said, that's what we signed up for. It's not anybody else's fault. Like, that's exactly what we signed up for as UFC fighters. I ain't complaining about it. I just want to make as much money. as I can while I'm, while I'm here. That's why I'm doing this whole thing. I understand. I thought you

you handled the press conference very well and said all the right things and you weren't combative, but when you're sitting there showing someone your contract, then they're sort of like laughing because they can't believe the way it's structured. This is still your life and your legacy and your family. Were you getting upset? Not at them, but just at the state of things. To see an outsider's perspective, did that make you upset? I wouldn't say upset. I just feel a bit like, um, Like this is why I look at it right, and every fight is different. Some guys, they just, some guys don't care if they win or lose. Some UFC fighters, they don't even care if they win or lose.

They just want to fight. And they're happy that they're getting paid for it. And that's great. Like, if you're cut from that cloth, like, good for you. But with me, I want to make as much money as I possibly can make. So I'm exploring every option that I can do. and I think that if you're not doing that, then you should be, quite frankly,

because I think that each and every time we step in there, well, I know for me, I can only speak for myself, but I feel like I put my own health on the line for other people's entertainment, and I won't compensate for that as much as possible, whether that be inside the octaves. And like I said, with the stuff with the fighting, I signed up for that,

so I know exactly how much I'm getting paid, but if I can make more money doing other stuff as well, I will absolutely do that. I think a lot of people thought this was the bridge to eventually, eventually, not now, when you're done with fighting in the UFC, to go to boxing. Is that part of the thinking as well? Not for me. I've never said once that I wanted to box. It's not really of interest to me right now.

Maybe when I'm a little bit older, like towards the back, end of my career, I might do it a little bit more, but right now it doesn't really interest me. My interest right now is MMA. Were you surprised at the reaction? The reaction was massive. Did you think this would be viewed as such a big deal as it was? I mean, it's a good time to do it. If you're going to do it any time, I think it's a good time to do it.

And it was by design that the reaction was massive. I think me, Eddie, and all of our team agreed that this is the right time to do it. I think just with everything that's going on within the state of MMA and the state of boxing right now, I think it's a good time to do it. And I think it's the right time to do it. I think everybody's happy with it, everybody's satisfied. And I know that the guys have got some big things coming up for me over the next, you know, in the future. So I'm very happy with it, mate, very happy. To see the attention and the turnout on Friday and to be up there with someone like Eddie bigging you up and making you feel, I would imagine, like a million dollars, correct me if I'm wrong, have you ever felt that way?

Like, have you ever felt that type of love and respect while being an active fighter up there in front of the press? No, I think usually I feel like it's kind of me against the world and everyone's trying to catch me out a little bit when I'm doing stuff like that. So it's nice to have the, you know, the voice of Matron behind me. And it's nice to have somebody else because I felt like I've kind of been defending myself on my own a little bit for something that wasn't at all my fault. So yeah, all good, mate. Like I said, if I wasn't happy, if I wasn't even close to being happy, then I would have never signed a contract. So I'm very pleased the way it's all gone.

I can feel it. And your demeanor is completely different than the last time we spoke. Can I push back on one thing? You push back on whatever you want, mate. I heard you say that you have not talked to Dana White. And then I also heard you say he doesn't speak to fighters. That's not his job. I understand.

It's a hunter thing. You're being very respectful. He's a human being. It takes 10 seconds to send a text to someone saying, like, how are you doing? How are you feeling? There has to be a part of you and a part of your team that feels disappointed

that he has not checked in on you once, not even a phone call, a text, anything, a DM. I mean, it would have been nice, but I ain't going to cry about it. It is what it is. Are you surprised? No, I ain't surprised. I am, actually.

I'm very surprised. It's a text. what's up man how are things going i saw that video i saw that article saw you're struggling you good anything two seconds i mean i agree but i ain't surprised right how are things going with the company right now the other people you speak to in the company all good like they've been updated the full time on what's going on with me medically and stuff um you know the the stuff that i've had to have and the time frame and everything like, we've been keeping an update from our side.

So we've done everything there is today. We've got messages and messages of, you know, communication between us and them. And everything was done right on outside, that's for sure. Do you feel a little bit more support? In what sense? I don't know. You know, when we spoke the first time after in that first interview,

you said, you know, no one checked in. You kind of had to do things on your own. Do you feel like a little bit more like, hey, what's going on? What's up? what could we do? Do you need to see this person? What's the progress?

You know, status checks. You're a massive, massive part of their business. You're a huge star. You're their heavyweight champion. I would think they'd be on to you every two days. No, no, not really. I mean, I've, me and my side of the team, we have updated them every single step of the way. Every time we've had an appointment, every time we've, you know, done any surgery, procedure, any of that kind of stuff.

They know exactly what's going on, what time it happened, everything, what, what hospital it was. that what doctors we see and they know everything so um yeah all good how are you feeling now how are the eyes getting better actually getting better okay like so pretty yeah yeah pretty happy with it like everything's going really well i actually went for a scan uh last week the beginning of last week and things are moving the right direction everything's positive back in the gym a little bit training no contact just yet though no contact just yet so i'm just waiting for the green light from the doctor on that so I'm still not medically clear to do any like head contact or anything like that but

things are moving the right direction for sure is he giving you a timeline like hey by April by May I think you'll be here you'll be good then not really they just keep so there's so many there's some like conspiracy theory so I'm not even going to speak too much on my

medical stuff because people just come out and try and debunk me on it and it's like what the hell's going on? Yeah, I'm just making all this shit up, lads. Don't worry about it. But we had a couple of complications with it

where I had to go in once a week for scans. But anyway, that's now been cleared, and I'm now going once a month, so we're getting a lot better. That's great. Do you think that you will fight in 2026? I hope so. I hope so.

I think so. Are they giving you that indication? They're giving me the indication that everything's going in the right direction. and improving fast. There was a time when, you know, things are all up in the air because we had some complications with it, but everything now is moving, moving good,

and I'm feeling a lot better. So, and I can see, I can really see the difference in the way, you know, the vision is because vision is something that you use, obviously, every second of every day. So I'm feeling, mate, I'm feeling really good about it at the moment. It's great to see the hope and optimism and hear it. Was there a point where you thought this might be it, that you maybe never fight again?

Yes. Wow. Yes. Was that terrifying? I just thought, what am I going to do for the rest of my life? Because if you got to remember me, like, I've been involved in martial arts since I was eight years old. I'm about to be 33 next month. So without being able to do any kind of martial arts.

I'm not even talking about competing. Like at some points they were talking about potentially me not being able to train martial arts. so um but that's all that's all in the past mate so i am out the dark out the little dark patch and we're moving towards the light so i'm i'm absolutely buzzing i'm absolutely buzzing with it all mate i'm i'm feeling great because it's amazing you know what's great so my body's like had a good rest as well which is something that i've never really had so i'm feeling like fresh and and and i've started training again and i feel i feel in good spirits mate i feel really good incredible to hear and I feel like there's a lot of things working in your favor. This announcement

with Eddie seems to have rejuvenated you to a degree, this medical update as well. And it feels like business has picked up a little bit in your way class because we get the news on Saturday. It's Pereira versus Gone for the interim title. What did you think? I saw your video, but just curious, did you think that it would have been Pereira versus someone else interim? I know the John stuff was out there as well. What did you think when you saw that announcement? it. Yeah, I was absolutely sure that it was going to be Pereira and John Jones with the hype that everyone was giving on the White House Guard. I was like pretty sure like this is going to be a big fight between these two guys. Because at this point, Alex Pereira is also a legend in the sport. So it's going to be like two legends at the White House Guard. I thought he'd made complete sense. But why is John not fighting? Is it because of money? They don't want to pay him. What's going on? You know more. Yeah. I can tell you everything that's going on. They negotiated. He wanted a number that was similar to the number that he asked for it to fight you in that 30 million range. They came back with a number that was closer to what Connor Ben received.

That seems to be the new benchmark. And they negotiated and it was very clear that they weren't going to budge. And so they moved on to the other fights. There was a moment where it seemed like Islam versus Ilya could have been the fight. Islam unavailable. So they went with Ilya in the main event against Gaci and then Alex and gone in the co-main event. but I don't know if you saw it we were fixing your Wi-Fi

while we were doing that amazingly John Jones went on Twitter and asked to be released here's the thing I'm not going to read it for you here but he basically said that he feels like he was called a liar that he was negotiating

that he's ready to fight that he shouldn't be told that he's done and if they don't want to have him fight that he wants to be released so some massive disappointment there from John

well my reaction to that and this is going to probably be crazy to a lot of people listening but why are we not why is the UFC not giving John the respect to his owes financially that's crazy to me

do you feel like there's a growing sentiment for John no that the fighters in the UFC aren't getting what they're what they're owed well if anyone if anyone should be getting paid a lot in this sport

it should be John Jones for the stuff that he's done And that's me. That's me saying that. Yeah. After the history that I've had with John Jones, if anybody should be getting money in this sport, it's John Jones. Are you surprised they're not giving it to him? Well, they offered him $30 million to fight me,

so why have they not offered it again? I don't understand. Ariel, you're the man. You're the man in the north. I think it's yesterday's deal is in today's deal or that type of thing. Okay. And I think also the thinking is, hey, we're losing money off of this White House card, the $60 million. I mean, I think, I agree with you. I think John Jones, if Connor Ben is a $15 million fighter, more power to him.

I think it's great that he got that. John Jones is actually more than a $30 million fighter. And Connor McGregor is probably a $75 million fighter, if you get what I'm saying. Believely, they agreed. And you're probably a $25 million fighter. I would hope so. But those guys who are talking about Connor McGregor and John Jones and guys like that, like they bring in those are the guys who brought in the revenue for over 10 years.

Yeah. They need to be getting paid more they deserve, in my opinion. How do you feel about the interim title being instituted? I don't know. I think the guys need to get the money ready for my fight if we're talking about $25 million. I think if we're talking $25 million, get it ready, because I'm ready to get that. But interim title, are you okay with that? Well, what else are they going to do?

Yeah. Who else is knocking around in the heavyweight division? How do you feel about the matchup? What other matchup are they going to do? No, meaning like Pereira's the underdog in it from a betting standpoint, so that's the sentiment off the bat. Do you feel like that's right? I don't know.

It could go either way. You never know. It's difficult to say because Pereira's never fought a heavyweight before. Right. But you can definitely win the fight. It could go either way. Do you have a preference? Who wins?

Yeah. I'd like to find both one. Both would be fantastic. Well, that's why I feel like it's a win-win for you. If Gan beats Pereira, his stock is even higher now, and there's the story with you. And then if Pereira beats him, it's freaking Alex Pereira now going for another belt against the undisputed. Like, it's, I feel like all of a sudden, initially I would have said, ah, I don't want them to waste the Gan Aspinol fight, but I feel like now it will only raise whatever fight you're coming back to.

Like I said, mate, you better get that money ready. So what does that mean? What does that mean, Tom? Eddie Hearn might be getting tagged in. But you do, so what happens? You have a contract, right? What if they say we're not negotiating? I've got a good team behind me.

Yeah. Have you even started that yet? Because when you last fought, it was in the old era, not the new Paramount Plus era without pay-per-view. Yeah, I've got no idea how that stuff works, to be honest, with this new contract. This is since I've been injured. so I've absolutely no idea how that thing works.

When do you think it will ramp up? What, the money? No, just the talks. Like, when do you think you start to gauge? Well, I've got to get fit first. I've got to get medically here and get myself fit and then the gym properly. Like I said, I have started training a little bit. Very, very hungry to fight.

Very hungry to fight. At the same time, I ain't risking my eye to do it again. so it's got to be I'm not doing another surgery on the hike it's got to be everything's got to be right medically first but I'm very very keen to get back in there that's for sure

did you see Francis and Gano got a fight today yes that is yeah on the the Netflix card so it's like the Wild West out there open season open season does this excite you

oh maybe it's very excited I mean I ain't trying to in all honestly I'm trying to leave the UFC but you know we can make some moves up there sure. Even your mate Rico's fighting in boxing now. It's total chaos at heavy weight. It's fantastic.

I mean, fair play to Rico and those guys need to start giving Rico a chance. What do you mean? You think he's being disrespected? I do think he's being disrespected, yeah. Okay. Rico's the man. Granted, it's a different sport, but if Rico hits him, it could be over, and I'm not disrespecting

Usik. I am the biggest Usik fan out there. But also, Rico's, Rico can hold his own life. If he hits anybody. You've met him a lot, many times. He's a big, big, big guy and the guy can punch. So if he hits

Usik, I wouldn't be surprised if it's over. But this is absolutely no disrespect to Usik. Usik is the man when it comes to boxing. Are you going to be able to help him at all or impossible? When's the fight? May 23rd. Maybe. I mean, I hope

so. Like I said, it's all down to the doctors. I ain't doing, I ain't rushing back and getting, you know, having to go back a step. I don't want to do that. So when I'm ready, when they tell me I'm ready, I'm going to get ready. And if I can be there for Rico, I will be. The back and forth with Dana and Eddie, it's incredibly entertaining for the likes of me, the media. How do you feel about what's transpiring? Every day, it's a new chapter in the saga.

Can I tell you a little private story about Eddie? Please. Right. So when me and Eddie were like getting to know each other a little bit and we're planning this Monaco trip, Eddie said like, what do you like to do? Like, what do you want to do? So to be honest, I don't really have any hobbies or anything.

All I really like doing is training and eating, basically. They're the two things. So Eddie said, all right, well, we'll get some food and we'll go and train a little bit if you want. I said, oh yeah, sweet, mate, we'll get a workout out in as well. That'll be good. Don't want to miss a day. And we did a little bit of boxing training, me and Eddie.

Let me tell you, Eddie's got some hands. Like Dana talking about this boxing with Eddie, like Eddie's seriously got some hands. Would you help Eddie prepare for a fight against Dana? He's going to get Andy Aspinol on the pads. Hell yeah. Wow. Andy Aspinall is going to be the coach. Wow, wow, wow.

Would you be in his corner? I'll be the manager. You'll negotiate the purse. What is it? Eddie, Eddie showed me Eddie, he's got some He's legit, he's got some legit hands What a world we're living in, what a timeline

Where we're even talking about this Do you think that could actually happen? Probably not, but I can't even believe it's gotten to this point. It's fun. I mean, I'd watch it. The true thing is, Dana has never had a foil like Eddie, at least not for a very long time.

So to even see him in a back and forth like this is new. It's a lot of fun. It's a big, big pantomime, big soap opera. It's fun. You enjoy it? Do you partake in it? Like, do you consume it?

I mean, who doesn't? If you watch it, if you're a combat sports fan, this is, it's just as fun as the fight. Yes. No, it's, it's a wild thing. I can't even believe that we're, like, you're with Match Room, them going, you know, it's, the whole thing is, who would have thought four months ago that we'd be in this position? Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, even a couple of weeks ago, I wouldn't have thought about it.

But, listen, Matchroom is, matchroom's going to be the, you know, a change in the face of MMA, I believe. I think that more fighters are going to start going over to match room and working out the contracts and working out the commercial deals and exploring more stuff outside the octum because there is a lot more opportunities out there than we think.

Have you been told or have you been reached out to by any fighters who are like, hey, what's the story? What's the crack? What's going on? What can you tell me? I'm interested. Can you put me in touch? That type of thing.

I would imagine. Yes, I have. Of course I have. Wow, wow, wow. And are you telling them, hey, here it is. Here's the contact. I'm telling them where to go, yeah. If I'm friends with someone and they ask for my help, of course I'll help them.

Anyone who surprised you? Yeah, there were actually, but I'm not going to say publicly. I never blow up someone else's business like that. A couple of guys I was a bit shot with you. Could I just ask and I'll let you go in a moment Tom,

what would be your message to a UFC fighter who might be feeling some sort of way but doesn't, to be honest, have the balls that you had last week

which is, hey, let me link up with the guys who are quite frankly at odds with my promoters now. Not a lot of people would have the balls

to do that. What would be your message to someone who, I'm not saying, oh, come to match room, but just saying like who might be feeling some sort of way

but feels stuck right now. I don't know. Oh, like, I've, there's more out there than we think. There's more opportunities and money to be made than we're programmed to think. And you just got to explore a little bit. And, yeah, you just got to be smart about it. Incredible. Well, well done to you.

Congratulations on this. Most importantly, I'm so delighted to hear, like, the positivity in your voice and to see your demeanor. It's a much different Tom than the last one we spoke to. And I don't feel like you're BSing us. I feel like we're turning the corner here. The light is at the end of the tunnel for you, and that's incredibly exciting. Thanks, mate. You can't BS good vibes, I don't think.

No. I think that's got to be organic. But yeah, mate, everything's going really well, you know. Even like outside of fighting and stuff, everything's amazing. So I think the storm has passed. I mean, you never know this is life. You never know what's going to, you never know what's around the corner. But I'm enjoying the moments.

I'm trying, this is something that I figured out through all this, is like you've got to enjoy the good bits. And this is, I've had many good bits in my life, many, many good times. And as I'm getting a little bit older and I've been through a few more stuff in my life, I'm really, really trying to slow down and enjoy them a little bit more because when something like that happens and, you know, shit hits the fan big time, you start seeing what's what and who's who and I've learned a lot from it and I'm feeling good about the future it's it's amazing to see you congratulations Tom thank you for coming on as always

it was amazing to see you do all that media on Friday golly I saw you doing all these interviews let me tell you mate nobody nobody and I've been around a lot of people who do a lot of media nobody does media like Eddie Hearn nobody that guy I was completely blown away by it like I do two hours of media and I need to sit in a dark room by myself for a couple of hours, that guy bashed out probably north of 20 interviews with full energy and then he's straight on to taking the piss out of everyone straight after it. Unbelievable. Yes, it really is. I've seen him work like that. It's amazing. By the way, any byproduct of the deal just yet? Anything come through? I know it's been like four days, but have you seen any sort of byproduct?

Well, maybe we're working on a few things. Already. We've got a lot of stuff going on the background. Don't get me wrong with it. My dad and Charlie, who I work with, is basically my commercial team before match room. They're working on stuff all the time. Like, I'm constantly busy with that kind of stuff.

But this is just added to my team massively, and my revenue potential and commercial potential has increased and is going to continue to increase, you know, hopefully forever. Well done. Well done, Tom. Thank you very much for coming on. Appreciate it.

I know it's late over there. Congratulations. We'll let you go. And best of all, keep on getting better, continued progress in that regard. And hopefully we'll get some great news that you're officially back very soon.

Thanks, guys. Enjoy the rest of the day. Bye. There he is. The great Tom Aspinall joining us, the reigning defending UFC heavyweight champion. All right. That was amazing stuff.

This has been an amazing day. I have a car waiting for me outside to take me to the airport, believe it or not, at 515, 45 seconds from now but we've got other things to do. So the car's got to wait! It's been a crazy

day here. I want to give love to our friends over at Arena Club. They've been so good to us. Actually yesterday my son and I were out for lunch and we decided to buy a pack. I got a Shaquille O'Neal, like a rapping Shaquille O'Neal from like 1993. Love these guys. Love the love that they're giving us over with their

combat packs. ArenaClub.com slash Uncrown 20% off your first slap pack right now or card purchase using the code uncrowned. Unk, round. That's the code right there. We opened up some packs, got a Habib

Otto, got an amazing Hamzad as well. What do we got to do for these guys, Rick? These guys are the best. Yeah, we have to pick a winner. Okay, what do we do? We have to pick a winner because somebody is going to win

the Charles Alavera. The Charles Olavera since Charles won the fight. If I'm feeling frisky, maybe we'll see if we can do something with the max one. Give the max. But we have to pick a lot. winner. How are we picking them? Okay. A lot of people sent in. We've got a few candidates.

Bob Sakamano. He got a Connor McGregor hoodie patch card. Dylan Bevan got a Macy. Bob Sakamano is an incredible name, by the way. Obviously not real name. Macy Barber, shimmer refractor, Cody got an Islam Makachev tie-dye, Chronovisor got three different cards. He traded them in. James Jones got a Sean O'Malley Auto. Shout out James Jones. Jay Trejo got Team Rockets, Spideops, he went to the Pokemon route. Tim Mistopoulos got an Umar Namauga made of Silver PRISM and Ryan Lisman got an Alex Perra Gramer Factor.

So everybody was eaten yet on Saturday. They sent me the proof that they used our code at Arena Club. I have them on a wheel here. Oh, my God. And we are going to spin the wheel and determine who gets this.

How did you do this? Charles Oliver. Listen, you know, we got me. There we go. There we go. That was way too exciting. Chronovizer is going to get the Charles Olivera card. One more for Max.

One more for Max. We're going to do one more for Max. One more for Max. One more for Max. And by the way, I'm leaving Chronovisor. If he gets it, he also gets the other one. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Provoizer double up.

All right. All right, Bobby. What do they have to do to get it? I'm going to reach out to them. They've all been in contact with me already. to prove it. I will get their details and we will send them the individual cards. So thank you to everybody

who used the code on Saturday. And Rockdale, no lesson, thank you to Arena Club. We opened some some heat on Saturday. Oh, my kids love the site and the app. They really enjoy it. It's so much fun with the music and the animation. You get the thing. I showed them my offers. I showed them what was going on. Very, very fun stuff. One more

reminder. When you purchase these, they are real cards. They are not NFTs. Hold them up. Hold them up. Those are from Arena Club. Arena Club sent these to me the same way. If you purchase, they can send it to you. You can recall your card and you get it

in this nice slab. They've all been graded. Arena Club. What are we getting? We got a Habib Otto, a Yiri Otto, a Hamzot Auto, a DP Auto, Dustin Porier. Oh, yes. Well, it's my forgetting. MVP auto. We got the Chuck Liddell card. We got the Matt Hughes. Yeah, shout out. Yeah. Shout out to Arena Club.

Incredible stuff. What a product, and we do wish them the best and love that they're a part of the family here. So thank you very much for the support. Please support them because they support us. If you're into trading cards, memorabilia, all that stuff, it's an incredible service. All right. I can't go to sleep tonight knowing that I didn't answer all the super chats. So Frankie, I'm going to roll through these very quick, okay?

I won't take offense on it. Here we go. S.E.K. What is your take on Dana White bashing all the promoters? Surely they must have learned from their mistakes. If they go to war, best fights don't get made, fighters lose out, Fans lose out. Well, he seems down for a fight. It's a different world than the MMA world. There's no competition there right now for him.

Let's see. CTMMA. John Jones, 18 years of service, 16 UFC championships, the greatest ever do it, and you treat Connor Ben better than bones. F. you, Dana White. And I think John Jones would agree with that sentiment right now. Ariel, how bad was D.C. eating during the broadcast?

I didn't see him eating, so I can't comment on that. But that would be weird if he was eating. PRJ KD. White House card epitomizes American MMA, dearth of contenders, and the only legitimate one will be slimed out, palms up in the main event, RIP, USA. That's definitely a real thing.

Fatia JLY. Does Cody Garbrand v. Zhao Long show why open scoring might not be a good idea in MMA? Cody seemed to play it safe after knowing he was ahead. I mean, yeah, but that was a freaking weird fight. That was a weird, weird fight. You're going to use one example out of a dearth of examples. Come on.

Why isn't this from CTMMA Why isn't O'Mali fighting Umar? I don't know Why isn't he fighting Corey? New York Ricardo Mexican flag and music on the White House lawn Lopez. Yeah, it's wild man. It's going to be a wild scene

especially if you know certain matchups go a certain way. Craig Lester, free agent Aspinall versus Francis. Matrum MMA, let us see. La Mancha MMA, Ariel. Why did Netflix slash MVP give us Francis versus Lins.

This is a terrible look for MVP. Terrible, really? They are doing what the UFC is doing. They don't have a promotion. They're signing who's out there. Again, I ask you, who else is out there? Tell me who's out there. If you're going to criticize it.

And by the way, I'm okay with you saying, this wasn't what I thought. They did get in Ghanu. Who else? Who was better? Give me the name. Give me the name. Dan J 805.

Arrow, do you have any insight on what will happen with UK TV rights? Now the TNT is under the paramount umbrella. praying we soon pay the same as US. No, but it seems like they're going to merge HBO and Paramount. It's too early. It's too early to say. And obviously that deal is going to come to an end soon as well.

And I would suspect when it does, they'll try to get it all under Paramount. Hi, Ariel, the BITB, Saludos de Espania, loving the latest drops. Frank is on fire. My favorite is Armands. That's a bullshit. Would you ever consider having guests to do the on-the-nose superchats' voiceover like Armin with his non-enthusiastic voice? Not a bad idea, but it feels like it would be hard to pull off.

Is the Mac. Is the Mac fighting in July versus who? They're talking today. Let's see how that goes. AH, how do you feel about Cody beating Drew on Friday? Oh, Cody Rhodes. Would have liked Drew to keep it longer, understand why. Hope they don't do a three-way.

Don't love those for WrestleMania. Rebend, 15 mil. He was sold on the idea of being the first Zufa champ beating their weak roster. Big him up and enticing offers to Chin for Zufa and Ramp. belt. All right, let's see. What else, Frankie? What else? Can we get more and new PT drops? Love the show, lads. Keep fighting the good fights. I think he told me you have 76. So, that wasn't for public consumption. Sorry. You guys pretending Alex Pereira would become a genuine undisputed. No, we never said undisputed. Three-way world champion just for beating a random dude. Is he a random dude? Interim is a widely bad take front of the show. Anyone? What are you talking about? We just said, we asked the question. We never said undisputed. I think we're very clear on who we think is the undisputed champion. And Cyril Gahn isn't a bum. In fact, he's a guy who had a pretty damn good showing against Tom Aspinall. So, whatever.

He'll win a belt in another weight class at a heavier weight. That's something. Are we seeing the faults in the foundation of what 30 years built by an inspired brass? The Fatita Bros. Early Dana did it for the love of the game. It feels like Dana, the superstar, doesn't care if the brand lives or dies. Interesting take. Cyril Gahn, the unwanted substitute teacher for every heavyweight superfight for the last four years. Zangano Jones, Aspinna,

not one fight between them, but Bon Gamma will have faced them all. That is an incredible factoid. And it is true. It's an unbelievable thing. Rome didn't know it was falling till it did. Dana lost his sense of smell since COVID. He don't realize the shit stank.

Dana lost in the sauce. Pride promoted strike force or promoted. Strike force promoted. WEC promoted. UFC bought established stars. They can only credit the true handful of homegrown talent. The results of the monopoly 30 years in. Is the new fighter being added to?

to the White House card, start with G. End in Abel. I don't know, but we've got a great, great Gable Steven film coming out on Thursday. The boys will show you a trailer. I was going to do it today, but we ran out of time. It may be my favorite one yet, on Crown Film Thursday, 1 p.m., the making of a superstar, Gable Steven. You're going to love this. This opened the door for Angano Jones on an MVP card. I mean, I don't think they're releasing John Jones, to be honest. Could we see Eddie getting more of May fighters to run fights on Netflix. Netflix can pay big money direct to consumer. Yeah.

I mean, yes to that part. I don't know about the Eddie part. O'Malley said he was distracted when walking out of the sphere. Should fans be worried about and getting distracted walking out of the White House? I doubt it. Aspinall, thank you. John Jones deserves to be paid and be the main event of the UFC White House. Respect. FU. Dana White. Wow. Tommy hit the hammer with the nail. And finally,

thank you for this certified hood classic episode. Yeah. We're the fucking best. We've always been the best, and we continue to be the best. I'm going to the airport. I'll be hosting that press conference tomorrow at 3 p.m. Eastern. Boys in the back will be live at 2.

Live at 2. Live at 2. You can watch the press conference with them, and they'll react. So if Rhonda... We really, really hope so. If Rhonda... We really, really hope so. What?

No, we just hope that that's going to happen. We'll see it for the press conference. We'll see it for tomorrow. I don't understand what's going on. Yeah. Are we not doing that? Yeah, yeah. Okay, I mean, tell me if we're not, then I'll say something else.

We are. We are. Well, that was the plan, last I heard. Either way, we're going to be streaming it. You'll be able to see if Rhonda reacts, what happens. I've not talked to Rhonda in a while. I've not talked to Gina Carrano in a very long time. Francis will be there.

Francis will be my muscle, I'm hoping. What the fuck is that? Yeah, thanks, Francis. That's Tuesday. Wednesday, regular boys in the back. You'll hear for me throughout the week. Have no fear. Thursday, Gable Steveson, Doc. Friday, crack. Normal schedule next week.

Forgive me, but I got to go to the presser. I'm getting this opportunity. And it's the first freaking MMA show on Netflix. Who else? Please, don't be surprised if that's missing when you get full. What a day. What a time to be alive. How lucky are we? Remember when I kept telling you guys, the Venn diagram.

Has the Venn diagram ever been bigger between all three sports? The guys who are doing the boxing are also the UFC guys or also the WVE guys and they're here and they're here and then the boxing guys are coming to MMA from match room today.

What a time! We're so lucky. Sugar Shahn, Bo Nickel, Eddie Hearn, Tom Aspinall, thanks to you, thanks to them. Back to Marseilles, I'll be here. Too hung over to deal with these people tonight.