The Ariel Helwani Show - Joe Hendry & Karolina Kowalkiewicz in studio, David Benavidez, MVP, Terrance McKinney, full weekend recap

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

Ariel Helwani reacts to Israel Adesanya's stunning loss at UFC Saudi Arabia, David Benavidez's big win over David Morrell Jr., the WWE Royal Rumble, Bryce Mitchell's disgusting comments, plus much more from the chaotic weekend in combat sports (09:54).Michael Page discusses his UFC Saudi Arabia win over Shara Magomedov, what's next, whether a move to light heavyweight is actually feasible, Magomedov's post-fight excuses and more (01:02:33).Terrance McKinney discusses his UFC Saudi Arabia knockout of Damir Hadzovic, why he's somehow never gotten a UFC post-fight bonus, how paint fumes in the Saudi locker room affected fighters' performances and more (01:22:24).David Benavidez discusses beating David Morrell Jr., his pursuit of Canelo Alvarez, fighting the winner of Artur Beterbiev vs. Dmitry Bivol 2, why Terence Crawford is going to upset Alvarez and more (01:42:54).Karolina Kowalkiewicz joins us in-studio to discuss her UFC status, rebounding from her five-fight losing streak, retirement rumors, Bryce Mitchell's abhorrent comments and more (02:05:07).Joe Hendry discusses his WWE debut at the 2025 Royal Rumble, John Cena's life-changing advice, wrestling Robert Whittaker and getting help from Chael Sonnen, his backstage encounter with Triple H, plus much more in a special in-studio interview (02:54:01).Join us on the bike: http://avironactive.com/uncrowned

Ladies and gentlemen, Hello again, everyone. I sure hope you're doing well. Ooh, a little skip in the action there. It's great to be here on a lovely, lovely Monday in New York City. A little snow last night, a little heat throughout the weekend. The first ever Uncrowned Saturday has come and gone. And what a freaking Saturday it was Should have called it Uncrowned Weekend

Because so much happened Saturday and Sunday Golly, do we have a lot to talk about I got here super early Probably the earliest that I've ever gotten here On a Monday Because I was just Wrapped and ready to go I felt like a caged animal

Just ready to go Because there's so much to discuss There's so much to get to. And what a show we have lined up for everyone on this beautiful Monday. Because Uncrowned Saturday, the spirit of Uncrowned Saturday was that there was a little something for everyone. From the world of combat sports, you had the UFC in Saudi Arabia. You had Royal Rumble in Indianapolis. You had a tremendous boxing main event in Las Vegas. You had Royal Rumble in Indianapolis. You had a tremendous boxing main

event in Las Vegas. Something for everyone. The team smashed it on.com, on social, all over the place. Had the post show here for the Saudi Arabia card on the YouTube channel, the pod, everything. And today's program, I think, continues that spirit. It is what we are all about here at Uncrowned. We've got back into the show one of the most talked about men in pro wrestling today. A man who made his official WWE debut on Saturday at the Rumble. He was the 15th entrant. Is it entrant? Yes, it's entrant at the Royal Rumble.

He's the current reigning and defending TNA World Heavyweight Champion. He's the man who appears when you say his name. He's the great Joe Hendry. Yes, I believe in Joe Hendry. I believe in Joe Hendry. He's the pride of Scotland. He's a part of this deal where TNA people can show up on WWE programming. And he showed up on the Rumble. at the Rumble, with the belt.

And the place went crazy. We had our very own Alan Murphy in attendance at Lucas Oil Stadium on Saturday in India. And he confirmed. The place popped for his music. And so he'll be joining us in studio. I reached out to him yesterday and said, hey, you want to come on the program via Zoom or something like that? We could talk about your WWE debut, your crazy year.

You've become this cult-like favorite in the world of pro wrestling. And he's like, you know what? Let me come in studio. There's a lot to talk about. And I said, are you going to be in New York? And he's like, no, but I will be. And I said, hell yeah.

I love that energy. Very Matt Cardona-esque. Perhaps there's something about these wrestlers. They get it. In studio better. Can't wait to have him in studio at four o'clock. Prior to that, we'll be joined by Karolina Kowalkiewicz, the pride of Poland. Been in the UFC now for almost 10 years. 2015, December of 2015, will mark 10 years. So she started in December of 2015. 2025 will be 10 years for her. She's looking to have two more fights.

Obviously, the strawweight division very much in focus this weekend with Zhang Weili and Tatiana Suarez fighting in the co-main event of UFC 312. But again, when you have someone in studio, you can ask different questions. You can get a little deeper I'm looking forward to having Carolina in studio for the very first time that'll be at around 3 at 240 David Benavidez

who had a scintillating win over David Murrell on Saturday in Las Vegas the fight was as good if not better than we all expected and in my opinion he's the number one contender at light heavyweight. He should be next for the winner of Dmitry Bivol versus Artur Beterbiev,

which is going down in 19 days' time in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. He has put himself in that position. Couldn't get the Canelo fight, but it seems like he's put himself in that position. And so we'll talk to David Benavidez at around 240. At 220, Terrence McKinney, who had another very quick first round win on Saturday. He'll join us. He fought on the Saudi Arabia card.

Of course, he's growing up in front of our eyes. And at two o'clock, the man himself, Michael Venom Page, who won on the co-main event slot of Saturday's card against Shara Bullitt, somewhat vintage MVP, just impossible to hit, showed that there are levels to this striking game. He'll join us at 2 o'clock to talk about all of that and more. Look at that lineup. Something for everyone.

You can't get this anywhere else in the world of combat sports. And I wish we had five hours on today's program because there's just so much going on in the world of sports. Like I said, uncrowned Saturday, the first one ever, and we'll do more of this and we'll make them bigger and bigger and hopefully into the biggest damn thing. Crushed it as far as I'm concerned on yahoosports.com based on the stats that I got. There is a demand, there is an appetite for great combat sports coverage, and I hope that is what we are proving to all of you, including the powers that be, who decided to join forces with us. Started the day with the Saudi Arabia card, and we'll get into it more. Obviously, the main event, much to talk about there. Nasruddin Imavov defeating

Israel Adesanya in the main event, becoming very much a top contender at 185 pounds. Then later on in the day, we went to the Royal Rumble, Charlotte Flair returning. She won the Women's Rumble. And then of course, we went over to the men's side of things and Jey Uso with the shocker. More on that later in the program as well. We'll talk about the Royal Rumble. What was that? Yes. Sorry, I didn't know if you were on air or not. We'll get to the ad read in a moment then after that we had David Benavidez beating David Murrell in the midst of all that we had

an amazing Knicks-Lakers game which ultimately was lost by the Knicks and OG Ananobi got injured in the midst of it all but there was just so much going on and then I'm locked in on the boxing and I'm loving the main event and just as I'm

about to go to bed, I get a WhatsApp message from Shaheen Alshadi, editor-in-chief of uncrowned.com doing an incredible job and he's like, I think Shams' phone got hacked and it's now like 1230 and I'm like, what are you talking about? And I look on his Twitter feed and it's multiple tweets announcing to the world that Luka Doncic has been traded to the Los Angeles Lakers. I still can't believe what has transpired there. And then I couldn't go to bed for another two hours. I'm still feeling the effects. It was like a pay-per-view Saturday for me, because I was just online. It's funny, on Thursday, after the Bryce Mitchell stuff, I was like, you know what? Fuck this Twitter. Fuck this ex. This place is a cesspool.

It's the worst. And then on Saturday, you're reminded? Fuck this Twitter. Fuck this X. This place is a cesspool. It's the worst. And then on Saturday, you're reminded how much fun that particular platform can be when everything is firing on all cylinders and there's funny shit being posted. And you're seeing like superstars from Giannis to Joel Embiid to Jalen Brunson to Josh Hart to Pat Mahomes. Everyone's just reacting in real time to this insane seismic, one of the biggest trades in the history of North American sports. It's incredible. It's incredible.

And so I was super tired when I woke up on Sunday early to do my fatherly duties. And then we end Sunday with another boxing event, Clarissa Shields becoming the first three-time undisputed champion in her hometown of Flint, Michigan.

Look at her beating up Danielle Perkins. I actually thought that this could have been the end of the fight here. I mean, Perkins had no business being in the ring. We need to see her against someone like Savannah Marshall. I have no interest in seeing the Amanda Serrano fight, which I think she's angling for, or even a Leila Ali. Look at this moment right here between Shields and Perkins. They said this was a trip. This was not a trip. This was a person who was out and the referee's helping her up. That should have been the fight right there or at least ruled a knockdown, which that was not.

And then at the very end of the fight with 13 seconds left, this happens. And it was all she wrote. Clarissa Shields, the self-proclaimed quote, doing her thing once again, becoming undisputed heavyweight champion. By the way, what about earlier in the night, a crazy, crazy fight between two heavyweights. Look at this sequence here with the cameraman. Did you guys see this? I think this was in the third round. But look at this. Moore and Lacey, the cameraman got knocked over in the corner there. Look at this, look at this. And then he has to come up onto the, and everyone's like, yo, are you all right? And he's like, yeah, I'm all right. thanks for checking in it gets weirder at the very end of the fight it's shades of Royal Rumble look at this

this spear was better than brawn breakers against I show speed look at this what the hell speared out the ring through the middle ropes by the way so technically not a Royal Rumble elimination. That's Skylar Lacey spearing Brandon Moore and the ref is counting and he goes up to like 14 or 15 and eventually says, yeah, you're done. Brandon Moore wins. Bizarre. What a weekend. Let's go back to Saudi Arabia. Let's talk about what happened. Israel Adesanya looked great in the first round. He said all the right things heading into that

fight. He said all the right things to the media, on his blogs, on his YouTube channel. And in the first round, it looked, you know, you forget the Strickland fight, he did not look good. He did not look like himself. The DDP fight, he did look good. He had moments there. Eventually, he lost in the fourth round via submission. In this fight, first round looked very good, looked very solid, looked very competent and confident and seemed like there was a path to a very, you know, impressive victory for him. And then everything changed in the second round. And in the moment, gave Imovov his props, wins via TKO. But I said it was not without controversy. Oh, this pissed people off. Oh, this pissed people off. Controversy could be defined as many different things. And the controversy, as I clarified 10 seconds later, was that Izzy should have taken some time.

He should have taken some time after he was accidentally poked in the eye. There's a sequence there in the second round. Here it is. Get rid of the lower third for a second, please. 443. This is the very beginning of the second round. So, okay, here you see, do we have a picture before this or no? Goddard steps in.

This is right after the poke. You see his stance. Okay, keep going, keep going. All right. He's fighting southpaw, right foot forward, switches stance, goes to orthodox, and this is when he gets blasted. All this happened within the span of 20, 30 seconds. This is not me taking anything away from Nassau Dean Imavov. He did exactly what he had to do. We saw, you know, we saw Alex Pereira get hit with a below the belt shot against Jamal Hill. He said, I'm good to Herb Dean, kept going. He won in this case. And I'm not suggesting that Izzy tried to do the same thing, but in retrospect, the controversy, if you will, is that he should have taken time. Clearly, him switching stances in that moment five seconds later would suggest that he was

bothered. Nasruddin went in there and blasted him. And I didn't think the stoppage was early. You know, I've talked about some stoppages in the past from Goddard that I thought were early. In this case, I did not think it was early. I thought he was done. And even after, credit to Izzy, literally like an hour or two later, he posts a

video on his social media reacting to the fight, re-watching the fight. Here he is with his manager, Tim Simpson, and he says, yeah, fair play. One great moment here in this sequence as he's watching in his hotel room or wherever he's uh not in that car but he's in some kind of room and he's listening to the commentary and and uh loris anko says you know something like you know that that nassau dean kills the legend and he's like i'm still here i thought this was great this is when he's watching it do we have a cool can we play the audio from this this is him watching the i just rested from the thing One great line right here

Fair game See, gives props Fair game Niggas in the fucking stripper splits Fair game. Fuck. Niggas in the fucking stripper splits. Here comes. One shot to kill a legend.

That was unbelievable. I'm still alive. Yeah, that's good shit from Izzy. And credit to him. Watches it, isn't complaining, posts that. Not a lot of people would do that an hour later. He lost fair and square. The only controversy to me, and it's on Izzy's side.

He should have just taken the time. He should have just taken a minute to regroup. Clearly it bothered him. Accidental, nothing more should have happened. And he got blasted right after. It was a definite game changer, a turning point in that fight. And he has to live with that. And now he has lost three fights in a row for the first time in his career.

He's only 35, but you're starting to stare at a situation where you're on this losing streak. People are starting to say, you're done, you're over the hill. I don't agree. I don't think that he is, you know, does he fight for the belt again? I don't know. He's only one or two away always at this point. You know, if he loses five, six in a row, that would be a problem. You have to remember the guy has around 75 or so kickboxing slash Muay Thai fights on his resume before he really started on this MMA journey. So despite the fact that he isn't the oldest fighter on the roster, or at least among the contenders, he's got a lot of, you know, a lot of tread on those tires. And so he has to determine

if he wants to do this. He has to determine, you know, we heard that stuff from Eugene Barrowman that, you know, the last camp wasn't great and that he only wanted to be involved if he was truly invested and he seemed like he was invested. And maybe there is something to the fact that against the top dogs, he, you know, he can't be that guy anymore. I don't know if Nasal Din Imavov is a top dog per se. We're seeing two top dogs fight on Saturday. Obviously, Hamzat is waiting in the wings. I'd love to see Imavov fight Akio Bohalio next.

I think that fight would make a lot of sense. Shemayev versus Imavov doesn't make sense to me. Shemayev should be next for the belt. He should fight the winner. I mean, the title fight is literally in five days from now. He should be next. You got a ready-made superstar waiting in the wings. And that's the big thing as far as the UFC is concerned, in my opinion.

The UFC, every time I go on these radio shows, every time I go on these podcasts, and especially when I talk to like mainstream quote unquote general sports shows, they always ask me about who's the next star? Who's the next this guy? Who's the next A-lister? Who's the next pay-per-view draw? Who's the next Conor McGregor? Who's the next John Jones, Anderson Silva, GSP? And I usually am always saying like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. We are approaching a territory now where it feels like there's a bit of a superstar shortage. Izzy not being a top guy anymore, at least as of right now, is a problem. He is beloved. You don't have Sean O'Malley as champion.

Who knows if, when Conor McGregor ever fights again? Who knows how many Jon Jones has left? Like, there is a superstar shortage right now. And so Hamzat is a superstar. Hamzat needs to fight for the belt next. You can't put him in there against a Kaio or a Nima Vov and, you know, risk him losing. It's going to be very interesting as some of these guys start to move on and and Izzy was you know beloved it's going to be very interesting to see what they do with him

and also what he does I still think there are fights out there for him I still think there are interesting matchups out there for him I think it's really up to him does he want to keep going because he's not he's not getting yes that was a stoppage stoppage, but it doesn't look like he has lost a step. It doesn't look like he is not that guy, you know, who can hang. It's just, you know, in this case, he got beat by a guy who capitalized on a situation. In the last fight, he lost to the champion and was looking good. In the previous fight, he lost to the eventual champion and he did not look good. Like there is nothing you can say about that fight. He did not look like himself. And perhaps that's the beginning of the end. It's just crazy how quickly things change in this sport. All of a sudden, a guy who was undefeated for several fights in a row is now in the midst of a threefight losing streak. What did you guys think? Let's bring in the boys.

Did you think he should have taken more time? I really felt like more should have been made of that decision. Who knows what would have happened? Maybe he gets knocked out if that never happens. But to me, when I saw him not take any time and then five seconds later get blasted, I was like, man, he's going to have to live with that one. That was a grave error. What'd you think, Rick? Didn't have much of a problem with that. Just felt like he got caught. And you spoke about like, you know, what do you do from here?

I'll be honest. And maybe you'll remember this. I didn't love this matchup and not because I don't think Israel Asana can compete with Nasradi and Imavov. In fact, I. In fact, myself, Pete C and Connor were on the post show after the fact. I thought he looked as good as he's ever looked. He looked extremely sharp. He was on the front foot. He seemed to be fading toward the end of the round, just slowing down a little bit. But he looked sharp to me. He looked like he could compete.

It looked like he had Imavov frustrated. But against a lesser opponent, I feel like that's one where you can get your mojo back and you can get a win, like a solid win in the books and then build upon it and move on from there. So I didn't love this matchup, if I'm being honest, because I thought this was a possible outcome. And also it doesn't tell me where Israel Adesanya really is because I know he can compete with Imovov. Like, I saw it. I saw that first round.

I know he can compete with him. He got caught in the second. I really, like, is the next fight going to be against another ranked guy who's just as tough as this? Again, like, I kind of want to see him take a step backward and see where he truly is at because I know he can compete with these top guys, but I know that it's going to be a closer fight now. I know that it's going to be a chance where he does get caught. So I never loved this fight from the start. Even after now, I'm wondering like, you know, what, what the value was. Hopefully it can like launch him above at least. But I thought, does he look good good man i i really don't come away from

that fight thinking is he made many mistakes he got caught and pt i just want to reiterate because i i can totally see people saying like you're not giving imavov credit no he won fair and square he did nothing wrong but i think to ignore the the sequence there and the poor decision making by izzy is is is not right. Clearly something happened. He switched stances and then he got blasted in that moment. And I know he switches stances from time to time, but it was clear in retrospect that it was an issue. That takes nothing away from Ivanov.

He's a guy who I think should fight Kaio next and who is now in that sort of top five, top six discussion. But if you look at the top 15 of the middleweight division, six is Bohaglio, Vittori is 7, Kananir is 8, 9 is Brandon Allen, 10 is Dolice, 11 is Costa. By the way, breaking news, Izzy has beaten a lot of these guys. You can't tell me that he's not a top 10 middleweight. The question for me is, does he even want to do this anymore? Is there anything left for him to get excited about to be motivated about that to me is the question he's going to have to answer yeah absolutely and look i understand people like we got a lot of that on the post fight show too uh why aren't you talking about imovov but to to be frank about the whole thing like israel adesanya is one of the greatest fighters we've had at middleweight in the history of the uf UFC like this is a a shocking situation to find

him in three fights good as as you said you're asking questions about um you know and Izzy talked about it himself in terms of what his future might hold I think the thing that will irritate both Eugene Berman and Izzy more than anything about these last two fights let's take the Sean Strickland one out of the equation for a second because i think he he won that so handily but in the dupless's fight and then against imovov the weirdest thing about that fight for me is like he clearly has the skill set there like we saw that in the first round we saw it in rounds against drickus but what seems to be missing now is his ability to take these performances across the finish line which is an incredibly important part of this sport we see a lot of people being criticized

for their ability to win fights. Ian Gary in particular, he came in as this knockout artist. And as he was winning and grinding out results, people seemed to not put value on that. But that's an important part of this game, getting the W, knowing how to secure a win. That's the most perplexing thing about Izzy's performances the last two outs it feels like he

was in control of the fight and he let it slip through his fingers you called it a controversy in terms of um his decision after he was poked i just think that's a lack of awareness i mean i think that's that's uh every fighter deals with situations like that and they are punished for that but right now what i'd be worried about if i was izzy and i thought he looked physically incredible like we were like marveling at his shape as he got into the ring at the cage sorry on saturday my worry would be you have all the tools there and you still can't get it done why is that why can't you get it over the line you have one of the greatest minds in the sport eugene berman guiding you throughout these fights it doesn't seem to be there seems to be no uh obvious answer to that question right now Imovov did brilliantly for all the things I'm saying

about Izzy like having control of the fight Imovov looked completely out of control of that fight early on like he tried to take Izzy down Izzy replied with his own takedown then tuned him up he looked confused by what what he was seeing in front of him in the first round. To go out and do that so quickly, 30 seconds into the second round, absolutely incredible for Imhovov. I agree that he cannot get fast-tracked to the title shot because Hamzat Shumayev is there, so I

agree with you guys that Kyle Borado is the guy he should face to kind of be the number one contender in waiting for after Hamzat has his shot at the title. Tale as old as time, a great fighter making, you know, poor decisions or slow to react, getting knocked out, these sad scenes. There was once a time it was unfathomable to see Izzy in that kind of state that we saw him on Saturday. And so he's not unique in this regard. It happens and, you know, it's that cliche about father time undefeated. And so he's not unique in this regard. It happens, and it's that cliche about father time undefeated.

And so he has to make that call if he wants to continue, if he feels like he can continue, if he is motivated by the idea, the thought of continuing. True or false, we see Izzy in the UFC again. GC, what do you say? True. True. I think he just has such a love and passion for the game

that he's not going to be able to be gone for long. He didn't even hint at it in the post-fight that he might be done. When you talked to him last week on this show, he wasn't talking about retirement in any sort of serious fashion. I think after the Strickland one, he said we wouldn't see him for a long, long time. We saw him 10 months later in the DDP fight. He loses that one, gets finished by DDP. We see him back five months later against Imbab.

I would actually go as far to say I think we see another Israel Adesanya fight at some point this year. Wow. You know, I was thinking back end or next year. You know, he's kind of been in this, I don't know, once. Well, the last one was August, but then prior to that, the Strickland one was like almost a year prior. So this was a pretty quick turnaround, all things considered.

But yeah, I could see that as well. Definitely against a lower ranked opponent. Do you like the idea of Imovov versus Bojalio or do you like something else? I'm wondering if Imovov is going to want to take that. Bojalio's at six right now. He's going to be behind him. Imovov's obviously going want to take that. But Halio's at six right now. He's going to be behind him. Imovov's obviously going to move into probably the top three after this win. His last loss was to Sean Strickland.

There's a world where Sean Strickland loses on Saturday to DDP, and then Imovov's calling for the Sean Strickland rematch to stamp him a title shot. I think he's going to wait and see how the middleweight title plays out on Saturday and then make a decision on where he wants to go from there. I just don't love the idea of, let's say Strickland loses, I think he's going to wait and see how the middleweight title plays out on Saturday and then make a decision on where he wants to go from there. games uh imavov has more of those on his resume and uh nothing needs to be decided now and and the timeline doesn't really you know you know when was when when was kayo's last fight it was um when was his last fight it was like probably three four months ago yeah last one was august a cannonier fight yeah so so the timing doesn't really match up um How about you do

How about Even Vov waits and sees what happened In the middleweight, if Strickland loses He calls for that rematch, but Halio vs. Whitaker And we do Adesanya-Costa 2 Adesanya-Costa 2 isn't the worst idea of all time Any chance Is he tries to freshen things up

And go to 205? I know that's something you don't want to do One of his worst performances ever was at 205 I have no interest And I think that would be a very big mistake There are a lot of big boys up there at 205 So I mean Crazier things can happen

They've got to be really careful with his next fight Honestly That's what I'm saying What is the next fight And if he loses that one Then it's just like, really where do you go from there? Izzy versus MVP. Izzy versus Shara.

I said Shara. This fight night should have been Israel versus Shara. It always should have been. How about now? You think it's going to be Izzy versus Shara? I don't hate that. I don't mind it. Shara's about to be unranked at this point. It could have been without the loss to Imavov. It's a very delicate situation because you have to be careful

because Israel Adesanya is a star in the UFC. He is one of the most notable names that you have on your roster, and you have to put him in big fights and you have to put him in main events. But then that naturally comes with, well, you have to have a capable opponent for him. You have to have a B-side. But is it a B-side that's going to be too competitive with him, right? I think he needs to face somebody personally, right? This is me speaking, not on behalf of Israel. I think he needs to be facing somebody who is at the caliber of a Shara bullet to potentially win that fight

and get back on track. He may say, look, if I'm not fighting for championships, if I'm not one or two wins away, then I don't want to do it. And I would completely understand that for somebody as accomplished as him, for somebody who has tasted the success he's tasted. I could completely understand. You know, he said to you in the interview last week, he's good in life. Like he's he's this is all house money right now. He's he's found exactly what he needed. And so he's in a great spot. Does he need to be competing

against the lower tier guys, or can he just comfortably walk away? I think he's good enough skills-wise to be in there with anybody in the middleweight division. I saw it in the first round. To Pizzi's point, I saw it against DDP. He's still there. That guy is still there, but there is something to Pizzi's point that is preventing him from taking it across the finish line. I am more confident of him doing that against a lower tier opponent, but to what end is that useful for either the UFC or even Israel? Shara Bullitt is 30 years old. He walked into Saturday's fight against Michael Venom Page, a perfect 15 and 0. And I was shocked when Murab Diwali Shvili was an underdog. I was not shocked,

but very surprised that Michael Venom Page was an underdog. I was not shocked, but very surprised that Michael Venn and Page was an underdog against Shara Bullitt, because to me, seasoned veteran knows how to hit and not get hit. It felt to me like a tough matchup for someone like Shara Bullitt. And that's what we saw in that co-main event. He did not know how to close the distance. He did not know how to connect. And Michael Venn and Page, while that particular style may not be, you know, the most fan favorite, and while he did predict a highlight reel knockout, and I'm sure there's a part of Dana White,

and you could tell he was a little ornery in the post-fight press conference, is thinking like, gosh, I want something explosive, especially in a market like Saudi Arabia. It didn't make a lot of sense that Shara Bullitt was the favorite of that fight. And of course, afterwards, you see the fraud check stuff and all this bullshit. No, Michael Venn and Page is a veteran. Michael Venn and Page has been doing this. Michael Venn and Page's MMA debut was in 2012. He's been doing this for 13 years. His debut came five years before and he's a lot older. He's, what is he? 37. He's 37. So, I mean, that was just

a veteran knowing, you know, how to beat a great striker who's just not quite on his level just yet afterwards charbult said he was dealing with all kinds of health issues didn't really elaborate as to uh as to what that was but for mvp solid win gets back on track i think he's best suited at 170 pounds um he talked about leon edwards obviously edwards has has the date with JDM said that fight would only have to happen in, in the UK. And I would agree, but, uh, I, I think he should go back to, to one 70 and, and just continue on his path there.

What do you think PT? Yeah, absolutely. Um, and I, I wanted to bring up something I said to the lads on Saturday, cause you weren't there to, uh, talk to us us that day but I felt sorry for MVP when he took out the ring at the end he put so much effort into these things and he's getting these tiny gaps to do them in and you know oh yeah like I understand some people that like you know are critical of us though I've been watching him for years I find it utterly fascinating watching him fight and I understand Dana to some degree but what I said to the lads on Saturday was was isn't it kind of like buying a mclaren to drive around to the shops every day

like a five minute spin up the road to get milk or whatever like if you're not going to allow mvp to be mvp with all the bells and whistles like having been to the events in bellator and watched him have the crowd in the palm of his hand from the second his music hits the walkouts all of this kind of stuff like the whole thing is a spectacle i feel like i understand that the ufc don't allow people a lot of space to put their their individual you know their individual kind of patois across to the to the masses but i think you've got to do it with mvp because that's part of the whole thing it's not simply about him getting in there and snake charming these guys it's the whole performance around it he's a showman we've seen glimpses of it yeah the little the little tiny gaps that the ufc have given him he's tried to use them as well as possible but i

think surely the fan base would understand what this guy is about if they allowed him to put a bit more flair into his walkouts into everything like that because as rick said to me when i brought up this point like you remember the MVP fight. Some of they weren't the most spectacular. Some of them were, but there was a whole story coming out of every single one and whether it be, you know, whatever it's called, the glove thing he had, the pokeball, all the stuff. Was it Rickles that night he fought in London?

I just feel like they aren't embracing this MVP moment that they're currently in for the UFC. Well, he said afterwards that he's still kind of feeling the effects of the bright lights of the UFC. And I think that there's a part of him that felt like in Bellator, he kind of had free reign. And now he's wearing the uniform. He's being sort of like wedged into this system, this machine, and he's balancing being himself, being a showman, all the glitz and glamor that comes with an MVP fight, but also kind of, for lack of a better term, falling

in line and doing, you know, remember after his debut, like Dana didn't really seem to love all the other stuff and he has been consistent in that regard. But, you know, we got to appreciate this guy. We really do. all the other stuff. And he has been consistent in that regard. But, you know, we got to appreciate this guy. We really do. Because he is, he's an incredible talent and he more often than not delivers fun fights.

And he did what he had to do against the guy who was the favorite against him, who everyone thought was going to be the next great striker. And by the way, who could still very well be the next great striker. Like nothing really changes here. He just lost to a vet who's been there, done that and who has come a very long way as far as his uh his game is concerned the sergey pavlovich jarzinia rosen strike fight was a nothing burger we don't have to talk about that

it was just not great there there is sometimes a big gap between real high level heavyweight mma and just kind of mid-tier heavyweight MMA. And not to suggest that these two individuals are mid-tier, but like sometimes the combinations just produce, I don't know, awful, awful, awful results. I had heard from a couple of people in, um, who were in Saudi Arabia and, uh, you know, we'll talk to two of them, obviously Terrence McKinney and Michael Venn and Paige coming up in the next hour, who told me that they were having a very hard time breathing in the locker room because the locker rooms were freshly painted. And there were some fighters that had to go outside just to get fresh air and were feeling nauseous. Now,

again, who knows, Did that affect this guy? Did that affect that guy? This girl, that girl, who knows? But I heard from a couple of people who were there on the ground who said this was a problem. And so let's just chalk up that performance to the toxicity of the paint

used to paint the locker rooms. I feel comfortable with that. That's very kind of you. Yeah, let's move on there. Vinicius Oliveira, a.k.a. Lockdog, with a great win over Saeed Nurmagomedov and afterwards saying, give me Umar. So he is becoming a fan favorite.

And the plan is to have him on our program on Wednesday for the very first time. So I'm looking forward to that conversation. He says all the right things and seems to do all the right things. So shout out to him. He got a bonus for that performance. Perez-Ziam beat Mike Davis for unanimous decision. Another proud Frenchman with a win. And what a time for French combat sports. They continue to rise. Could you imagine a fight night now headlined by Nasal Dini Mubav, who posted a great video, by the way,

afterwards about his upbringing and about his parents and all that. Really, really great stuff. Other performances of note, Shamil Gaziev with a KO of Thomas Peterson. And this was quite vicious stuff. Shout out to him. I know GC's a massive fan.

Me and Rick. Both of you. Legend. Goatziev. Yes. This was a unique one. Peterson taking the mouthpiece out before the fight was stopped.

He was done. Yeah, he's like, I'm done with this. I'm done. I'm out. I don't know what Terrence McKinney needs to do to get a bonus. He still hasn't gotten a bonus in the UFC. He wins.

Wait, is that legit? Yeah, I'm not even lying. I didn't know that. Yeah. That's crazy. He does not have a bonus. He does not have a bonus. Isn't that crazy?

Yeah, that's insane. That's unjust. How is that possible? This man does nothing but deliver highlight reel. Unless he's getting those under the under the table. Locker room is the secret. Insane ones. Yeah.

He better be because if he doesn't have, you blew my mind just now. You're guaranteed a banger when this guy steps in. It's either kill or be

killed with him. That's it. You're getting one way or the other. Like someone is getting viciously knocked out usually in the first five minutes when

McKinney is fighting. Kudos to him. He was the one doing the knocking out, defeating Demir Hadzovic. Our good friend Jasmine. Jazz the busiest. Obviously with the big win over Mayra Buenasilva.

I say obviously because they're going to Montreal in May. She better be fighting for that belt. She better be fighting for that belt. Now I know Fioro might have a thing or two to say about that, but it would be a nice story to have one of our own fighting for the belt in Canada. She'll be joining us on Wednesday's program. She is traveling home.

So shout out to Jasmine. Another methodical, clinical, surgical performance out of the pride of Niagara, Ontario. And then linked up with GSP after. Yeah, yeah. I saw that. GSP in the house. GSP in the house in Saudi Arabia. That was nice. Hamdi

Abdel Wahab got a hometown decision in the current jerker. I thought you were going to say got a nice decision. I'm not so sure about that one. He got some home cooking in the current jerker. Yes, Rick. Quick update here. Terrence McKinney, via Twitter, he was responding to a tweet

by Adam Martin, sorry, a post by Adam Martin on X, and he said, still never got an official bonus, but I think it was Nolan King or John Morgan that asked Dana after my debut, and they gave me a little something, but it always felt weird. I never got one. So he got, in his debut, he got like a little locker room bonus, but he has not gotten an official bonus since. That is that's truly nuts speaking of the bonuses um and and and more to come as far as uh saudi arabia is concerned there i am on uh on thursday let's go to this story now here briefly thursday i get a text from someone who i used to work with at espn being like man what a sport you cover and i'm well, this could mean a million different things. What exactly are you talking about? And he writes Bryce Mitchell. And I had no idea what he was talking about. And so I go on Twitter very quickly, and I see this clip of Bryce Mitchell

on the critically acclaimed Arkansanity podcast with former UFC fighter Rolly Delgado talking about how you know hitler was a good guy before the meth we always have to uh mention that and i didn't know actually i learned something uh while watching that clip i didn't i didn't know that that um that hitler was a a meth user um i didn't know this was public knowledge but i guess through his research that he conducted uh he found that out and also found out that he was a good guy, kind of guy that you'd want to go fishing with. And that, you know, all he wanted to do was, you know, wipe the Jews out of Germany

who were turning everyone gay. And it was just like, you know, it was a clip where you're like, to me, you know, as a Jewish person, I listen to this and I say, oh, well, this is just Bryce Mitchell being Bryce Mitchell. This is a sign of the times. It's open season. You could say whatever you want on Jews in particular over the past year and a half. And this is all good. I didn't really honestly feel any sort of way about it because, you know, I consider the source and, you know, I've enjoyed my chats for the most part with Bryce Mitchell up until the last one. And the

last one to me was just pure lunacy. And the reason why he's never been back on the show was because of how he acted in that chat. And I said in the aftermath of the chat, like I enjoy when people with different perspectives come on the show and we can sort of you know have a chat have a debate have a conversation an argument whatever but there there has you know there has to be some sanity involved and and and when he asked me before that chat like is this going to be live and i was like yeah of course it's always live it it made me think in the back of my mind, like, why is he asking this question? And then when the shot starts with him just on his couch, clearly to not tip anyone in the back off. And then all of a sudden, when he realizes he's on, he goes to, you know, the shot with the guns and starts talking about Sandy Hook being a hoax and all this stuff. I'm like, I'm good. You can,

you can spout this nonsense off somewhere else. I don't need to have you on. And so like, yeah, I felt some sort of way about that and, you know, is what it is. I don't need to have you on. And so like, yeah, I felt some sort of way about that and, you know, is what it is. I don't have to agree and like every single person that fights in the UFC or even that comes on the show. I've told the story of Larry King interviewing Yasser Arafat and I thought it was so amazing that two people from different backgrounds with different ideologies and beliefs could come together and have a civil professional conversation. That's journalism, in my opinion. This felt like he was trying to, you know, dupe us. He was trying to pull one over on us. So in any event, that's why he hasn't been on. And he says this, and I'm like, yeah, this,

you know, this guy doesn't think Sandy Hook happened, thinks that the government was involved. There's some nonsense like that. So, you know, I consider the source. And I said afterwards, each and every day, you know, it just continues to baffle me how people associated with MMA continue to embarrass us, the sane ones who like this sport, who have been watching this sport for some kind of, we have to almost answer for it

and spend time dissecting these things, talking about these things because it's some of the biggest names in the sport doing things that are either embarrassing or reprehensible or low class or whatever you want to say. Just not fun things. Like I want to have conversations about Israel

and Nasruddin and MVP and what's next for this guy and that guy and the fights this weekend. Not this nonsense. And it's the type of stuff that doesn't really fly in other sports and other sports leagues because there are repercussions, but there are no repercussions when it comes to UFC fighters. And that was a decision made several years ago around 2016. And we've gone over this time and again, where the UFC just decided like, hey, in the past, we would punish someone like

Miguel Torres, who tweeted out a rape fan joke that was a quote from a show, Always Sunny in Philadelphia, and got cut as a result of that. Or Frank Mir, who lost his job as a WC commentator because he said he was going to kill Brock Lesnar in the cage, in a fight. Or someone like Matt Matreon, who on this show made a poor taste remark about Fallon Fox, the transgender fighter, he was punished for that. And so time and again in the early days, in the early 2010s, people would get reprimanded. But, you know, once freedom of speech or, you know, your stance on this type of speech became like a badge for your political views or your political stance, they dropped all of that. And so I said afterwards, nothing's going to

happen. And I don't even want something to happen because I don't feel like we should be, we should be rooting for people to lose their jobs based on these stupid things. They're cage fighters, they're sportsmen, they're athletes, like God, do your thing, provide for your family. It doesn't affect me whether you fight in the UFC or not. I don't need to have everyone in the UFC believe in what I believe in or, or be on the same page as me as far as, you know, morality or politics or religion. I don't care. So I'm not going to campaign for this guy to be punished or lose his job. And I didn't think anything was going to happen. And the bar has been set so low as far as responses are concerned. I mean, just look at like when Conor's civil trial came to an end and the, you know,

the jury involved said that he was responsible for the you know the the sexual assault uh dana white got defensive when asked about whether or not he had any sort of comment he got defensive about it this is the the the face of his organization you don't get defensive you you respond you're asked a question you respond and so i was actually pleasantly surprised that at least three, four, five hours later, after the power slap event, there's Dana White at the press conference, old school Dana White, visibly upset, visibly bothered, calling it one of the dumbest, if not the dumbest thing that he had ever heard since being president of the UFC way back in 2001, visibly upset. And I said, I tweeted, kudos to him. A swift, a conclusive,

a very clear-cut message that he does not agree with this, that this type of, you know, rhetoric doesn't represent him or the company, etc. I said it was appreciated. But then you listen to the rest of the press conference and it becomes the same old, same old. And then you take a step back and you unravel the whole thing. And it's very clear, at least to me, that the Dana White that was sitting up there at the press conference on Thursday afternoon, reading off a sheet, reading off a sheet, like he's reading the bonuses you know after an event 6 million 45 this that that was tko dana that was dana white who is the president of a publicly traded entity within a major corporate a major company known as tko that was dana white who

afterwards people were like, he's just doing what his boss has told him. Yeah, yeah, you're fucking right he was. Yeah, you're right. There's a pecking order. Ari Emanuel, Mark Shapiro, who both happen to be Jewish. Yeah, of course,

they're not going to want to be associated with stupidities like Hitler was a good guy and he was just trying to rid Germany of the Jews who were trying to turn everyone gay. Yeah, of course, they shouldn't want to be associated with that. And of course there are people out there coming out of the woodwork who said they believe in this type of thing. And it goes on and on and on and on. And of course everyone has the empowerment now to say all these kinds of craziness.

And they're drawn to the UFC because this is the type of place that goes unchecked. This is the type of place that doesn't get bothered. So that was the TKO Dana reading off the sheet saying, oh yeah, I'm upset. I'm disgusted, blah, blah, blah. But then you saw the real Dana White show up 10 minutes later when he says the beauty of this sport, the beauty of this business, only in America can you actually, you know, see, only in our sport, only in our company can you see this Nazi Hitler lover get his ass whooped. You could pay money, you could pay $79.99 to see this guy get his ass kicked. Isn't that great? Isn't it great that you can actually buy pay-per-view and watch this guy, get this guy who loves Hitler, who wants to go

fishing with Hitler, you can watch him get his ass kicked only here. And that's how he really feels. That's how he really feels. Because if he truly does not want to be associated, freedom of speech essentially just says that the government can't come to your house and arrest you for saying stupid shit like this, which they can't.

That's the second amendment. Every company has every right to say, we don't want to be associated with this. We don't want to employ this type of person. We don't want to make any money. We don't want to make a dime off of this type of person. We don't want you, our public, our loyal public to pay pay-per-view dollars to watch this type of person because he does not represent our beliefs. He does not represent us. We have sponsors who have to, you know, answer to their bosses or their, you know, shareholders or people who invest in them.

Wait a second. You're sponsoring the sport that says they're okay with this type of rhetoric. You're okay with that on, on like on the week where we were celebrating 80 years since the Nazi death camps, which I visited in 1999, were liberated? This is the type of stuff that you're okay with? Oh, no. Here, even in WWE, which historically has been the lowest of the low when it comes to this stuff. Historically, they were the place that would capitalize on this shit. With the likes of Sgt. Slaughter, a Saddam Hussein sympathizer. That's what they do. Even they move away from this. I can assure you in WWE, they would have

gotten rid of Bryce Mitchell for saying this. Here, it's like, come here, come here, come watch him get his ass whooped. That's how he really feels about all this. And I'll tell you why. Ultimately, I'll tell you why. Because if they do something to Bryce Mitchell on Thursday, they have to do something to Conor McGregor on Friday. And they don't want to do that. So when Conor McGregor is out there tweeting the N-word for no reason, I still can't understand why. When he's out there insulting Khabib for no reason,

there's no juice on this feud anymore, and his family and his religion and his lineage that does no good for anyone, they don't want to do anything. So it's easier to just do nothing. Do nothing to Bryce Mitchell, do nothing to Conor McGregor, do nothing to the next guy and the next guy and the next guy. If you start punishing Bryce Mitchell, then you have to do something the next day. So that's why the stance is what it is on Thursday. Because the next guy. If you start punishing Bryce Mitchell, then you have to do something the next day. So that's why the stance is what it is on Thursday. Because the next day, could you imagine if they would have suspended Bryce? What happens on Friday? They're not suspending Conor. I don't even know what a suspension would look like at this point. So it's easier to just say,

let's wash our hands. And ultimately, that's a coward move. Ultimately, that's a coward move. Ultimately that's a coward move. You are the UFC. You are the best of the best. You are the number one organization and we have to sit here as normal sane-minded people and watch you say this is okay. Because make no mistake about it, the three minutes were wonderful. Great for a clip, great for the highlight reel, but the real stance is what you said afterwards and that's the beauty of this sport is you can watch that guy under our umbrella, on our show, in our cage, get his ass whooped. That's how you feel.

Let's profit off of this. We just got a Nazi sympathizer on our roster. We just got a guy who offended a percentage of our fan base and now you can watch him get his ass whooped. By the way, there's no guarantee. He's a great fighter. He just won his last fight.

No guarantee, but still pay them dollars. Only in America, baby. It's nonsense. And it's a coward move. And I thought that once they reached the point that they were publicly traded with TKO, with Smart and, with Smart, and business people leading the charge that this type of stuff would change. Have some sort of stance. Have some sort of

ideology as to what you do in these situations. It can't be, there has to, there is going to be a line. I haven't found it yet. I don't know where it is. Is it murder? I don't know. Is it getting on the microphone and saying, you know, things about the boss's family?

I don't know. There's got to be a line. It can't just be an infinite hundred yard, you know, you could do whatever you want, free reign. And so there I am watching that and I'm like, okay, this is great. Well done. And then you sit around and credit to Oscar Willis of the Mac life for asking more questions.

And you're like, oh, that was all just performative. That was all just for the cameras. That was all just because the bosses told you to do it it dana white always says i don't need a i don't need a sheet i don't i speak from the heart that's that's his that's his appeal that's his that's what people love about him he's not a corporate shill he doesn't read off papers what was he doing reading off of that bryce mitchell saying what he, like, that isn't enough? Each and every day, more and more people embarrassing themselves. And each and every day, more and more people, you know, showing their true colors. Now, that doesn't take away from the good people.

Trust me on this. There are way more good people in this sport than bad people. There are way more good eggs than bad eggs. But you would like to see once the top organizations say, not here. There are way more good eggs than bad eggs. But you would like to see once the top organizations say, not here. There is a line. And that shit crossed the line. And so as a result, X, Y, and Z is going to happen. You decide. That's the same thing I said when he was caught on camera doing what he did a couple years ago. It's not on us to decide. We don't run your company. You decide what that is. And by doing nothing, you've told us your stance. And so that's the stance. And I think that's coward stuff.

Ah, come watch it here. All right, fine. We will watch it here. We will cover it. We knew that was the stance. Trust me. I've seen the stance over the last year plus and then some. None of this was new. For a minute there, I'm watching. I'm like, holy shit, something's changed. Nothing changed. Absolutely nothing changed. I do want to remind you that today's program is brought to you by our good friends over at Averon. I should have said this at the top of the show, but I was getting too worked up talking about everything. I felt like I just did a workout because I'm all sweaty now, but workouts shouldn't feel like a grind. That's why I've made Averon a part of my fitness routine. And let me tell you,

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A proud Canadian company doing big things. Thank you very much to them for the support. Let's end on somewhat of a positive note, if we can. Royal Rumble has come and gone and certainly not ending the show, but this first hour before we get to MVP. Royal Rumble, do we have the results as far as the third annual Royal Rumble lottery? Yeah, we sure do, man.

Congratulations. Wow. Congratulations. Wow. No conspiracies here. Wow. So how long did you have the script, Ariel? Now, is the conspiracy that unofficial show statistician Jedi Goodman came up with the stats and no one checked them, is that the conspiracy? Or are we just running with his results or what?

It's just weird that the guy pulling the balls out of the old bin ends up victorious. First, wait, wait, I need to see this. Sorry, I didn't really digest. I was just kind of Admiring my name In the first slot Yeah 30 30 points

First place in the women's Shout out to Charlotte Second and fourth In the men's Mysterious Frank Came in at number 18 Frank Quite the differential

How many seconds Of the rumble did you watch? I was messaging you guys And you were like Oh Frank's not even tuning in Like I saw When CM threw two people out. We're on the first.

Sorry, I'm not done. He says he was watching the whole thing, messaging us nonstop. I think he just said, oh no, CM Punk. We don't see what we just see. Frank saw nothing. Frank didn't watch one second of this thing. PC-12. Rick with three. Golly. Listen, I had Roman Reigns, and I got three. We knew it

going into the Roma. We knew our numbers were screwed. Yeah, we were done. I was cooked. I mean, I had every mid-team that you could possibly have. Meanwhile, freaking Frankie over here sitting on Jey Uso from 16, and he wins. I can't get a goddamn break. He gets a 16

that wins the whole thing. Conor got an actual ticket for John Cena, who it looks like is going to win, and that doesn't even cash. I mean got an actual ticket for John Cena, who it looks like is going to win and that doesn't even cash. I mean, it's just a debacle. Insanity. Almost.

That would have been four years in a row that I got the winners of both the men's and women's right. I only got the women's. I only got the women's and I got number two.

I got the second in the men's. I have to say, I have to say, I thought the men's was fun. It was, my favorite thing about wrestling

is when it's unpredictable, when it becomes too predictable. Like John Cena out there, I told y'all, like I'm not down with this idea of him, you know, wrestling Cody Rhodes. I'm not down with this idea of him in his final year winning the belt. Like it's just too damn predictable.

You know, he's got the big ball at the spot. God bless him. He's looking good out there. All right, we don't have to. Gee, we don't have to attack the ball at the spot. I'm just not down I never was down Look at him man

He's carrying Logan Paul and Jey Uso out of the damn ring I'm just not down I'm not down with it Here it is You could see it coming a mile away And then all of a sudden That's great stuff The WWE yeeted

The end was a little Like Okay fine Going punch for punch Yeah And then he just Kind of fell off like that Sort of anti-combat

But I like that No one saw this coming This is great The women's rumble Was too predictable Like everyone was Picking Charlotte You had your life savings

On Charlotte Yeah I had way too much Money on Charlotte Flair She still didn't seem Like 100% out there And then she wins With all those other Great performers

Like I don't like it When it's too predictable. That's the thing. She made a grand entrance. I mean, the way she came in was fantastic. Yeah, I don't think she's that cool. I know I don't watch wrestling, but I was very impressed by a lot of the other competitors in the women's Rumble.

And I was kind of wondering, why is Charlotte such a big deal? Well, correct me if I'm wrong. This is her first one back, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, that was the big surprise She had the glistening It was a big surprise, she was favored to win the fucking thing That was the big surprise Meaning like the big return

What are you so angry about, Pizzi? What are you so angry about? It just fucking confused me It didn't confuse me I do love how GC, Frank, Jordan Who who was the other person, had like, they both had, they had Cena and they had CM Punk. It was Team Cena and Team Punk,

and the pop in my living room when Punk got thrown out. I mean, the whole place went nuts. I started online shopping. I was like, what am I going to do with these Cena winnings? Yeah. Listen. Whoa, there he goes. Shout out, Jill.

Wait, what is this? What is this? What is this? Thank you for watching, boys in the back. Yeah, thanks for watching, boys in the back. No, no, no. We appreciate it. This is Jill.

Oh, I heard this. Yes, I heard this. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then there was another one. No, I watch with the harp and everything. I watch everything. Oh, the harp. I mean, that's the harp.

That's casual lore right there. Come on, man. I watch everything. Oh, the harp. I mean, that's the harp. That's the back casual lore right there. Come on, man. Nasty work. Listen, listen. No, because the problem is, and it was the same thing with your other drop, where it sounds like the person, it's too clear. You know, it sounds like the person. What was the one?

Your drop is too good. What was the one with Rick? What was the one with Rick, the other one, where it literally said. It must be nice. It was me and Connor speaking. It wasn't even a clean drop. That was horrific. We can't talk clean drops. That was when we were taking recommendations.

Warren. You want to talk about fucking Carl Frog or whatever. It's like a 19 second drop. What a day. We started at 2pm. The first Saudi Arabia was 2pm and then Benav first fight, Saudi Arabia, was 2 p.m. And then Benavidez finished at a quarter past

5 in the morning here. Stayed up the whole way for it. Yeah, yeah. I love Benavidez, by the way. I love that fight. That was brilliant. It was great. And then all you guys left me high and dry when Luka got traded. Yeah, man. I love for the Luka shirt.

I've been getting compliments left, right, and center in the office. Everyone's like, whoa, crazy shirt. Is that what you bought with the Charlotte Flair money, yeah? No, no, no. I've had this since we went to Dallas for Paul Diaz. No, I mean, the Charlotte Flair money, I'm putting a down payment on a house. Yeah, that much, huh? You loved it.

I think your favorite moment was I Show Speed getting the spear. God, I've watched the spear 18 million times. I mean, he got decked by Bron Breaker, and then he gets thrown through a table. It's great, man. I mean, my favorite ones are where people are, I don't want to say getting hurt, but when Cody Rhodes did the, what is it, the Alabama slam through the ladder on Kevin Owens,

did he really hit his head? Or did they do the classic trick where they open up his forehead? What classic trick? Kevin Owens was his forehead Because he was What classic trick Kevin Owens was bleeding bad Crimson mask 300 million Social media views According to

WWE On the iShow Speed one Yeah You want to know How much I was into it I actually had the iShow Speed Stream up On a laptop

On the YouTube And I watched from both angles Wow Triple H comes over You got to get in You got gotta get in you gotta get in yeah yeah akira tozawa gets it was a great spot pop pops too man my kids loved it yeah when he hit the crowd every when he hit the the floor the crowd went insane they especially love the impressive dude man that's big he's impressive when he when he uh when he hit the suey the kids

loved it the kids freaking loved it you said you did a draft with the kids? Yeah, I did it with them too. Who won that one? You? No, I did not. I did not. Walter won the women's and Oliver won the men's. But I was happy about that.

A, because I was kicking your guys' butt. So, you know, there's enough winnings to go around. Just do me a favor. Don't cash that check until Friday. I haven't seen the money come through. You're going to look a little harder. I'm still working for it. Okay, yes.

But it was just fun that they were so into it. So anyway, it was a great Saturday. More discussion regarding all of that. Joe Hendry going to be on the program in the 4 o'clock hour to talk about his debut. And we could go in a million different ways. What a show. What a day. What a weekend.

What a fight. What a card. What a scene in Saudi Arabia. Michael Venepage moving up to 185 pounds and defeating Shara Bullitt as the underdog. Could you believe it? He was the actual underdog. He put on a master class and showed that there are levels to this game. He's on vacation right now, but he's also very kind to join us for a few minutes. Let's not keep him waiting and say hello to the man who won on Saturday.

Hello, Michael. How are you, my friend? I'm good. Always good. Always good. Pleasure to be on here again. Yes. And I know it's late over there.

Now you're in Dubai, right? Yes. Yeah. In Dubai. Just have a little, it's like a desert like resort, but beautiful here. Absolutely beautiful. It's just like a well-rested few days. Well-deserved as well.

So we won't keep you too long, but thank you so much for the time. Really appreciate it. And congratulations on Saturday. One of the last things you told me on Wednesday when we spoke was highlight reel knockout. That's what we're going for. And so happy with the win, disappointed you didn't get it?

Yeah, 100%. I'm always, you know, I keep saying this, I'm always seeking that um that highlight reel i haven't quite got it yet in the in the ufc i feel like i've got respect in the ufc now but i haven't quite got the actual highlight you know the the typical mvp that you know ufc signed hasn't quite quite showed his just yet. But I'm obviously happy with the result. When you say respect in the UFC, respect from who? I think everyone, just anybody that kind of questioned,

there's a couple of different things, questioned my abilities before getting to the UFC, questioned my age, you know, am I too old to be able to kind of do at this, at that level anymore? You know, there's a few, there was a few questions going around like that. And I just think there's a lot more people coming around to, okay, yeah, no, he's still very, very capable and has always been at that level. Why, why do you think, do you have a theory as to why you couldn't get the knockout? Why you couldn't get the stoppage was he a trickier puzzle was he was he harder to you know he was having an impossible

time closing the distance and connecting with you but on on your side of things why do you think um i still i think literally that last performance gave me the reality that, you know, there is a kind of, almost effect of the magnitude that UFC brings that can affect you or can affect, like, I'd say has been affecting me because I feel like I'm a bit hesitant or I'm a lot more hesitant than I used to be when, you know, when on show. So I'm only going to, I'm related. I'm going to say that the only difference is obviously being in the UFC cage

and obviously having that kind of massive energy and just weight on your shoulders. I think that's the only difference. But obviously I'm going to keep going back. I'm getting more and more comfortable. I definitely felt's the only difference. Um, but obviously I'm going to keep going back on. I'm getting more and more comfortable. I definitely felt very comfortable in the last performance, but there was still some hesitation. So go, you know,

go back to the drawing board and, and let's just keep getting better. I heard you say this on Saturday as well, that like the, the sort of aura that comes with being in the UFC, whatever jitters, um, that come along with it,

you know, perhaps in retrospect did, did maybe affect you, but this is your third ufc fight and so i'm i'm wondering if you're surprised that you're you know you've kind of been there done that thought all over the world are you surprised that it's still something on your mind yeah no definitely this is why even when people were saying it to me before um and there was a lot of people that again that was another question that can i kind of deal with the pressures of the ufc in my mind i was like that was never going to be a thing um but like i said i feel like i'm i've learned for the few you know for the three fights i've had now

that there is an effect there um and i just need to relax and just enjoy it just keep enjoying myself i think this third performance was the most I've kind of relaxed and enjoyed myself, and there's still a little bit more to go. So seriously, once I figure that out, it's a problem. It's definitely going to be a problem, because then that's when you're going to see some big shots and I think just more damage. I think right now people can see that I'm a tricky person to deal with,

but I can be tricky and extremely dangerous, and that's what I want to show. Have you ever felt something like this in your career? Like when you first got to Bellator and that was a step up for you, did you feel this way? I'd say no. The first time was my first ever MMA fight. I was at Cage Rage.

And yeah, I could feel the nerves from as I was walking in this because I genuinely didn't know how well I would do as an MMA fighter. I was kind of purely going based on my coaches and them just having faith and saying, yeah, no, we want you to take this fight. So I didn't really have that belief in myself until I got in the cage and kind of was like, oh, this feels the same. But other than that, no, even when I got to Bellator,

I kind of had that confidence in myself. But yeah, that's what I'm saying. UFC, I thought it would be the same thing as when I got to Bellator, but there is just a different energy being in the ufc i have to say it definitely is by the way uh did you know that tomorrow will be the 13 year anniversary of your debut oh wow no i did i didn't know that who'd you fight what was his name uh ben dishman yes ucmma 26 yeah yeah 65 seconds yeah remember how much you got paid for that fight 100 pounds 100 pounds so you probably lost money on the fight yeah it definitely lost money got to

deal with my medicals and stuff so i basically paid to fight but the the my saving grace was i had a good support from the kickboxing world, the freestyle kickboxing world, and they supported me from day one. And, you know, I was able to sell quite a bit of tickets to kind of make up and get some money. Okay. You know, I heard from a couple of people after the fact, speaking to them on Sunday and Monday, and I'm wondering if you had the same experience. Fighters who told me that they were actually feeling a little bit nauseous in the back because of the paint in the locker rooms. Have you heard about this?

That some of the locker rooms were freshly painted and they were feeling like it was very intense. Did you experience this at all? I personally didn't. I don't know if maybe it was the room I was in. I don't know. Obviously, I could tell everything was made specifically for the UFC there. So it wouldn't surprise me if that's a thing. It's a shame that, you know, that was a thing.

And maybe, you know, they shouldn't take that into was when the slap fighting happened a few days before, the team at the UFC were like, it's very cold back there, so make sure you have your jumpers and stuff for when you're waiting in the back getting ready to perform. And that was a thing. So when I got there, I was well wrapped up. Luckily, I had that information ahead of time, but I didn't hear about anybody being sick now uh shara bullet uh posted something

afterwards saying that he was dealing with some stuff dealing i don't know if he was referring to injuries or whatnot uh your reaction to this did you know of anything um for me he i guess he looked a bit off in his weight cut. One of my teammates was saying the same thing. He doesn't look right, but I felt like he maybe just didn't do his cut properly, which I've seen many fighters do in terms of how stressful that can be.

So that was the only time I kind of felt that maybe there's something off with him. But he didn't seem anything. It didn't seem like it did any damage the next day. But for me, if I was to give him any advice moving forward, just regardless of what, if you accept the fight, knowing that you have had anything prior to the fight, then the result is the result.

If you win, you can say what you want. But if you lose, just keep it to yourself um i think it just it just looks you know maybe maybe later on down the line you can kind of say you know i had a few issues but directly afterwards it just comes across as he could be completely factual but it just comes across wrong yeah comes across as an excuse but um that's i'll say i just that would be my only advice for him what do you think uh after being in there with him is his ceiling like can he be a champion at 185 in your opinion it it sounds weird he'd have to if put it this way if there was five more seconds i would have tapped him out via trying um It was way too easy to get to that position.

Obviously I went for a crazy kick. I knew the time was going to be up anyway, so I went for a crazy kick. He obviously had a little bit of probably about five or six seconds and in that time he ended up in a triangle. That is dangerous. That says something about his gist. He's going to have to work on that. Stand something about his um gist he's gonna have to work on that stand up wise he's i think he's still i do believe he's exceptional he's very fast um he's he's smart there's a couple of times i had to keep readjusting because he kept adjusting his timing and um yeah he's he's striking wise he's talented but he's gonna have to work on a few other things as well do you target the side of his body where he's got the bad eye?

Do you try to, off the top of my head, I think it's the right side, right? Is it the right side? Yeah, it would be his right side. No, it's not. For me, if you're, if I've, you know, he's been, I'm not sure how long he's had that blindness in that eye now, but in that time he's had fights, and he's extremely competent.

He can move. He's been undefeated in that time as well. That, to me, is not a weakness. It's a look. It's not a weakness. He just, regardless, he is competent enough to block, kick, and punch just as well as anybody else, if not better than most of the people out there. So I wouldn't

use i wouldn't believe that's a weakness of his own try to you know use it i would just fight him as i would fight anybody else in retrospect be honest you were a little offended that you were the underdog yeah no actually no it's weird because i don't know how this thing i'm not i'm not a bit in person i don't know how it actually works in general. So I think earlier someone said to me, one of my teammates was like, oh, I'm annoyed because you're the favorite. This was when it kind of got announced.

And then closer to the fight, it came up that I was the underdog. Because I don't understand it well enough. I don't really care. And it's like people saying that they believe somebody else is going to beat me just because of whatever reason. It doesn't faze me. I just go in there and just be me. I know how I feel about my talent, my level.

I'm sure the bookies don't always get it right. That's the reason why it's a bet. That doesn't bother me at all. We were joking about this earlier. What was more expensive, the ring or the engagement ring? That's the thing. The guys from One of One, they gifted it to me. So, yeah, I was fortunate to not have to pay for that one

okay um yeah my missus ring very expensive so i'd say that one how it looked like a lot of diamonds in the mvp ring over there it was a fat one yeah there's a lot of diamonds just a lot smaller who's wearing that during the fight like who had the uh the the task of holding on to that my my boy norbert uh norbert naveni who's actually a free agent at the moment and uh ufc needs to need to look at him because if they want someone uh exciting so because for me he's like a hybrid version of me he's the he's got my bounce and movement showmanship and then he can also wrestle he comes from a wrestling family as well so they need to jump on that.

We'd like to ask you before we let you go about something we were talking about earlier. You are such a free spirit and you're such a showman. And it's always, you know, so many great memories over the years. And I do wonder, you were talking about like the sort of jitters that come with being the UFC. But I can't quite get over the idea that sometimes I wonder if you're like being forced to be in this box because there is this expectation that while you can somewhat be yourself, like Izzy has had to deal with this as well, but it kind but you're also getting comfortable with being the MVP character within the UFC machine, which doesn't give you the same type of leeway that you had back in Bellator? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Like I have to, I'm very quick at adapting. I obviously, I remember the first time and I spoke to you about the actual idea that I had for for the walkout and um obviously getting all everything just knocked away basically still you know still pulling out a very good walkout and I kind of

understand my restrictions now to like you say be fit in that box um so I kind of my creativity will only go so far at the moment but yeah would I love to be able to express myself more 100 would it would it you know help with how i feel in there i'm not sure okay um uh but yeah i'd definitely love to be able to kind of show my character to the fullest extent how real is this 205 thing that you brought up yeah i can i can definitely see myself doing a fight up again. That's a big jump. Yeah, of course. But for me, that's what I'll say.

When I'm fighting guys that like to strike, I will fight up to heavyweight. It doesn't faze me because it's striking. And as much as these guys have got power, they have to land something for it to be effective. And you see how much I frustrate people. You see how many talented strikers come up with blueless, come up with no answers when it comes to their favorite space when I'm standing in front of them.

So I can do that at any weight. You know what I mean? So 100%, if the fight is exciting enough and it matches well then um 100 i can go up if you had a pick at 205 it'd be yuri as far as like a fun fight for you up there that was more like that was more uh an example of what a fun fight would look like do you know i? I've actually trained with him before. He was down at our gym a lot, helping out Carlos Fumola at the time.

And, you know, we got to spar quite regularly as well. So, yeah, I know, I kind of understand his style. He understands my style. Again, we had some great spars, so that would be an exciting fight. Can't think of anybody else, but anybody else with that kind of you know just kind of crazy style that wants to stand there and strike then yeah 100 i'm ready uh alex perra is a uh guy who likes this straight that guy's dangerous man i'm staying away from him okay fair enough fair how was your body as an 85er in there?

How did you feel? I think round three, I started to feel it a little bit more. But again, I know to myself, if I give myself a little bit more time at that weight, I'll adjust a lot easier. But I felt great, to be fair. I felt great. Like I said, the weight cut was almost perfect. Felt really good. Didn't feel drained. Didn't feel dehydrated at all.

Rehydrated really well. And then, like I said, on the day, felt super fast. Last, I think, you know, last half of the last round, I could feel it in my legs just a little bit. So that's what I'd need to work out. But yeah, it wouldn't take long to adjust to. But more than likely, the next one's at 70. Yeah, again, I'm sure because it seems like a lot of people are happy for me to stay there.

So the UFC might entice me with some more good-looking fights. But in terms of what I would like yes i would like to continue with the rankings to kind of push for the belt at 170 yeah okay last one can i just get your assessment on what happened in the main event um my takeaway was is he was looking great in the first round and and in retrospect obviously you never know the eye poke he came back too quickly switch stances obviously was bothering him and he gets blasted. And, you know, for him, I wish he would have taken a minute or two just to regroup. What did you see in that sequence?

Yeah, I think that was definitely one aspect of things. I think he could have taken his time, and I spoke to him about it afterwards, and he said the same thing. He probably should have taken his time a little bit more um I've been in that scenario similar close to when I when I first fought Douglas Lima and I rocked him and that sparked a an over excitement in me to kind of press a bit too heavy and then I obviously got caught um and I feel like you know it was a similar kind of situation um the only thing I've seen is in the first round, I saw it in the first round, is on his retreat when somebody's like kind of double attacking on his retreat, he's leaning away.

He's so comfortable slipping out of things and kind of avoiding it. When somebody double attacks, it's only so far you can go out. You've seen it with like, for example, Anderson Silva. The first time he got caught big was when he was slipping and he again you slip if you don't move your feet and you're leaning out after a few like one two three you might be able to slip but four five six will be a little bit harder and you can get caught out on it and i feel like if he changes angles on his retreat it will make it safer for him so in the first round there was one time um uh imavov threw a shot and he just was able to slip out of it and i was worried because his chin was quite high

um and then obviously he kind of got caught with a similar shot in the second round um and i think that is an issue as well uh but again though that's a small issue that can be fixed very very quickly quickly. In general, he looked exceptional in the first round, even, and he actually spoke about, you know, out wrestling him.

And I felt he looked great wrestling. He tries to get to, you know, he almost got defended two great takedowns because the timing of the take down is actually really good, but he defended them really well. Went for a lateral drop himself, which actually helped him.

Like he, he was looking great. And after that first round, I was like, he's got this in the bag. But as we know, we've spoken about a few things. It's just unfortunate. But hopefully I just don't want him to bury his head or feel too bad about that performance and just kind of get back as quickly as possible.

You're the man, Michael. Thank you so much for the time. Enjoy your vacation. No worries, no worries. Well-deserved, well-earned. Congrats. Great win. Y'all must have forgot, dare I say.

It was that kind of performance. Thank you, as always. Great to catch up. Thank you, man. Always good to speak to you, man. Take care. There he is, the great Michael Venom Page,

victorious on Saturday. A performance against a guy that a lot of people were very high on and who will be back, no doubt about it. But for now, back to the drawing board

for Shara Bullitt. What about Terrence McKinney winning in just two minutes and one second in the first round? It's always very exciting when T-Rex is in action and on Saturday,

he got back to the winner's circle. He's kind enough to join us right now. Let's go to Terrence McKinney. There he is. Terrence, how are you, my friend? Back in the United States? Yes, sir.

Yes, sir. Congratulations on the win. How was the trip to Riyadh? Your first fight outside of, I believe, the U.S. and South America, right? You fought in the U.S. You fought in Brazil. But the first fight on that side of the world, how was the trip over there? Yes, sir. It was truly incredible. We got to really enjoy the culture. And I was like in my African element. I got to eat with my hands,

lay on the floor, crisscross applesauce style like a little baby. And yeah, man, it was super sweet being out there. A little dusty, but other than that, man, it was a huge honor, but I felt like the crowd there was very knowledgeable and very into MMA. Did you feel that as well? Did it feel like a, for lack of a better term, like a, like a North American crowd that is into every movement and every moment of the fight? Oh yeah. You can definitely tell like, uh, there was, and it was cool. Cause there was people from like all parts of like the world at the event and you could tell like people knew about the wrestling they knew about the grappling exchanges so like i said man the energy was crazy like they knew the fighters that was

coming out man it was awesome so so i said this on saturday what is it about terrence mckinney fights it's like it you know no matter what the result is it's kill or be killed fights, it's like, you know, no matter what the result is, it's kill or be killed with you. It's either an incredible first round finish for you, or unfortunately, sometimes on the other side of things. And are you okay with that? Obviously you want more wins, but just being known as one of those guys that is never in a boring fight, is that kind of a point of pride for you at this point in your career? A hundred percent. Cause like I always looked up at Justin Gaethje and I feel like he got a bonus every fight so I kind of

try to come with the same energy but we do want to make the adjustments because I feel like a lot of guys that I beat Matt touched the rankings Favola's about to touch the rankings so I feel like I just need to clean up a few things and there's no reason why I should

never touch the rankings or even someday fight for the belt. So just making sure I'm at the right team right now. If he's next sale and training with people like Mike Davis, really just really sharpening me and like sharpening all my tools and making sure I'm really mixing up in the fight. Okay, so we were talking about you at the beginning of the show. I was talking with the guys in the back and they were shocked when I mentioned that you have yet to receive a bonus. And you were just talking about bonuses. How is this possible with a guy, you know, two minutes and one second, 20 seconds, a minute 25.

These are your victories, 217. It's always in the first, sometimes a couple times in the second. Look at this right here. How is it possible that you have never gotten a performance bonus? What is going on here? This doesn't make any sense. I don't understand it either, but I guess they like, well, they like to see a war, you know what I mean? And I like to make my wins clear because you guys see how the judges be. So like, I'd rather me being in full control, whether I win my money or lose it that's

just that's just how i feel have you ever asked like in the back like yo what do i gotta do like does it need to be a four second win what do i need to do to get a bonus here it's crazy i guess i need to sit down and talk to see what i gotta do like maybe i gotta get dropped and then drop the opponent. Maybe they want more back and forth. Does it bother you? Not at all. Because as long as I get the full check, there's no complaints on my end. Okay. Especially now that I've got a daughter. This is your second child that you just had, right?

Yes, sir. February 18th, we had Amelia. So February, wait, January 18th, you said? Yes, sir. February 18th, we had Amelia. So February, wait, January 18th, you said? Yes, sir. January. Okay. So literally like two, three weeks ago, there you are. Incredible. And congratulations to you going through that process and all the emotions and I'm sure a little bit of sleepless nights in the last couple days leading up to the fight. What was it like to then go fight after having her so close to the fight what was it like to then go fight after having having her so close to the fight I ain't gonna lie I was so happy to take off

those first two nights I was getting no sleep I was like oh man I can't wait to be thrown that's all I'm thinking but at the same time like I was missing my babies, man. Uh, and it, it, it was just so surreal just seeing my son, like that's my dad, my dad fight, you know, seeing that, but yeah, that was a real feeling. And, uh, it's something that I'll never forget. That was awesome. I saw you write about this on social media recently. It, does it feel like everything is coming together for you finally in your life? Do you feel like you are on, you are in the right place on the right path? You've got this growing family, the career seems to be in a good spot. Are you feeling those levels of

fulfillment within you after experiencing all these great life achievements? A hundred percent. I used to search for pleasure in their own places. i feel like uh just having a great wife now and two kids and uh just having a great gym and like just we have 17 ufc fighters at our gym just just being around such quality athletes and people who actually want to be the best man it's like i said uh there ain't no complaints like god's been very good to me and uh i took the risk and like i told him on the mic yeah i'm reaping the blessings of my sacrifices and uh you guys get to see more this year i'm not i'm not done yet you said in that message i'm taking this serious now because i have to um is is that a new mindset like even would you say in the last year like you know before your your daughter was born

you weren't taking it as serious still like with several ufc fights under your your belt i i definitely wasn't taking it as serious as i am now to be honest uh i just i just got to make this a lifestyle so like even if i'm not in camp just at least touch the gym once a day like there's no reason i shouldn't i don't got a job so uh it shouldn't just be a camp thing i just gotta make it a lifestyle to be honest and so what would you say was the biggest thing that you weren't doing was it that like were you going several days without going to the gym after after i win a fire or get some funds i usually just going crazy for like two or three months oh wow What does going crazy mean? Partying, doing the most, like, just young boy stuff, man. Stuff that I thought was cool, hanging out with my friends.

And, yeah, it just took me a second to realize what was more important, you know? Is that part of the reason why you moved to Orlando? Yes, I just had to get away from everything, you know what I mean, until I was mature enough to handle it. I'll probably never step over there until I know for a fact that I can resist these temptations, and I know I can't do it alone, so just growing my relationship with God, because we're always going to fall to flesh, so I know I'm going to need help, so I just got to keep praying and stay around my family.

Can I ask, what was the turning point for you? To make that step is a massive step. It's a life-changing decision. Now it seems like you're with a great team. What led to you finally saying enough is enough? Just having a daughter because I just know like they look up to me and i didn't want uh to be that kind of person like my daughter look up to and then she's dating a buster and i'm like oh why that happened because she saw i act and she thought oh that's that's

what a man does and uh that's not what i want in my life i want her to know a man who'll provide love and be kind and not just be in the streets drinking all the time, smoking. And like I said, I just want to be a champion on and off the mat. And it starts at home. Why did you choose Orlando specifically? You could have probably gone to a bunch of different places. Why there? I prayed about it.

And God told me to go to Fusion. And I was like fusion because i was thinking about going to kill cliff or like uh extreme couture and uh i got i kept hearing fusion in the back of my head and then i talked to my prayer people and uh they said yes that's what god wanted me to go and uh i packed up everything i own and moved down to orlando Julian Williams and just the whole team like it's been so incredible like they've been helping me work on my defense just being calm like once he hit me I had to readjust center my balance and stop falling over hit him with the clean jab you know yeah the rest was history. And so how long has it been over there um i moved down there last july okay

oh wow so it's uh six seven months yeah so it was like the perfect round time i got to fight i got to get accustomed to the team really build a bond and uh it was an incredible experience uh winning the first fight with the team and and did you live there full time now? Yeah, I live here full time. Oh, wow. Okay. And, and, um, ultimately like, when did you, did it, was it a weekend, two weeks in, two months in where you were like, oh yeah, I made, you know, cause you never know if you made the right choice, you could have gone anywhere. As you said, when did you come to the realization that this is the right place for you? It kind of, it kind of like within like the first like three weeks i knew i was like yeah

this is where i was supposed to be like the leap in skill level that i made here is more than like any place i've ever been wow um you did have two teammates uh fighting on the card mike davis and lucas alexander unfortunately both didn't pick up wins and and lucas's was like right before yours was that was that uh tough was it hard to concentrate how are you focusing on your fight as you're watching your teammate compete uh i like i said i got kids now so like that's just the when like i feel like mcconnell now like uh i just really can't afford to lose you know i mean yeah and that's in the back of my head every time now so i'm really ready to die out there for this now and it sucked to watch it happen but i think it was the weight cut uh i think we're gonna figure

that out uh do some test trials for him but skill wise i don't think it was the problem lucas was looking so clean in the first round it was the problem lucas was looking so clean in the first round it was just the weight cut was too hard and his body shut down and plus like we were in the back huffing paint like oh okay so what happened here because i just asked mvp about it and maybe he was in the bougie locker room but i had heard from several people after who said they had a really hard time breathing needed to go outside we're feeling nauseous about the the the painted locker rooms newly painted locker rooms you felt this like i even felt it a little bit too like and i was like like and this probably the best cardio i had like ever in any fight like i've been running like five miles every other day and uh no i felt it like from the pain

well they did try to help us like taking some the cellulose off, but like I said, it affected Lucas' breathing. He had to go to the hospital two times. All right, wow. And Mike David definitely was feeling it too, he told me. And a lot of other fighters were feeling it too, so we weren't just the only ones. And so what's wrong with Lucas now? I don't know.

It affected his lungs, so I don't know all it affected his lungs so he had to i don't know what he had all he had to do with the doctor but uh i think he just started feeling normal to be honest and like the wind and the sand there really didn't help the breathing as well i feel like damn that is and it was from the painted locker rooms right yeah that's what that's where it started because we were in there for like a few few hours waiting for the minute to start. Man, that is rough. I can't even imagine going through a fight, five-minute rounds, and you have to deal with that beforehand, feeling nauseous, hard to breathe. That is serious stuff. I know that arena is relatively new, but yeah, that is weird. That is really weird. Um, but didn't affect you to the point where, you know, um, you know, the, the, the result didn't go your way. And so I'm, I'm wondering how quick now it's another quick one for you. How quickly do you want to return? What would you, what would you like if they asked you? Oh, I'll fight again in like a month, to be honest. Uh, you did, you did mention Chris Duncan in your post-fight interview, and he responded.

Have you seen his response? Yeah, it was kind of like a kindergarten kind of response, with the dick thrown in the head. I was like, I ain't seen that since grade school, man. Real original. But he got to fight books, and all I was thinking was, I don't have to have gimmicks to look tough. People know I'm tough. He has to do that for his fans so he looks tough.

It's all good. You guys know I'm not a crap talker. I'll just let the fight speak for itself. We have the video of him responding, but it sounds like you didn't really like the response, so I'm not going to play it. I'm just wondering, why did you pick him? Why was he the... I know you

were supposed to fight, right? You were booked once before. Is that the reason why? Yeah, and I liked the fight in the first place, so it just seemed like the right call out. No beef for anything. It's just like, I always wanted to compete against him, and it was already something that was already booked, and I think it's one like i always wanted to compete against him and it was already something that was already booked and i think it's one of the fans that would like yeah although maybe now

after this call out maybe there is a little bit of a beef no not really still i just thought i just thought it was corny like i think he could have been more more better about it you know it's not like i was respectful to call out uh so if he um and and you did a great like you you nailed everything in that post-fight interview um if he is unavailable for your next one is there another name that comes to mind uh i see jordan lever looking for a fight i wouldn't mind doing that okay all right look at you with the names just ready to go i love it um by the way when did you cut your hair uh It was actually on accident. You know, I was trying to like line myself up, took a dread off, and then I was like, I was too sad.

I just went bald. I had to like hide my bald head wearing a do-rag at practice, and then someone ripped my do-rag off. I was so sad. Oh, no. That's an awful feeling. That's horrible. Oh, my gosh. So you lined it up, and you messed up up and then you just took the whole thing off?

I took the whole dread off, man, right in the front. I was like, no. How are you lining it up? Like you were trying to trim it? Yeah, I was trying to trim it. Yeah, I'm not an expert. I learned my lesson. You do it yourself all the time?

You don't go to a guy? No, it was just in the fur of the moment and then in the in the moment you were so sad you just took it all off right then and there yeah right there and there i was hurt i just went completely bald how many how long did you have that that hair how long did you have the dreads i got them back it's probably like almost a year starting to dress again. Man. That's rough. What did your wife say?

She was laughing at me the whole time. Ah. Maybe you felt different. Maybe it's part of the cleansing, the new you, the new path, the new chapter. Anything to that? No. I was super sad. I was very good. Are are you gonna grow it out again

yeah okay what was it like fighting without him uh it wasn't it wasn't too much of a difference man i don't know you look damn good out there on saturday maybe you stick with this maybe this is part of like the the growing up process i don't know the the fresh yeah for lack of a better word exactly you guys see i got some whiskers now yeah look at you you're a dad now you got that dad strength yes he's kicking in double double the power now i'm so superstitious that if i would have had a performance like that with the new haircut i would i i'd stick with the new haircut. I'm tapping into my Anderson John Jones, so don't be surprised if I don't fall again. I like that. Oh, and you

went down to skin? I went down to skin. Why'd you go so hardcore? It would have been easier to just let the one grow back instead of getting rid of all of it, no? I was in panic mode, bro. I was in panic mode. Was it that big of a deal? Would anyone have noticed? If you had it all... They would have definitely noticed. It was mode, bro. I was in panic mode. Was it that big of a deal?

Would anyone have noticed? Like if you had it all... Yeah, they would have definitely noticed. It was like right in the front. How does that even happen where you try to line it up and that much comes off? Because I wasn't using the right equipment. Nah, come on, man.

You can't have dreads and do that. It's a lot of TLC that goes into that. I swear. Yo, the stats are nuts, man. on man you can't have dreads and do that it's a lot of tlc that goes into that i swear you know the stats are nuts man um six straight first round stoppage in your ufc career 15th overall 100 finishing rate still yet to go to a decision has only been to the third round once shortest average fight time in ufc lightweight, two minutes and 34 seconds. Highest striking differential in UFC lightweight history, 405. Fastest finish, obviously, the seven-second win.

And still never received a performance bonus. It's one of the craziest things. It really is. But you're doing the work. My theory is they're giving you a better bonus under the table. They don't want to make a big deal about it, but they're rewarding you for these performances. they all they always take care of me with the

discreet so yeah okay all right well uh congratulations well done welcome home and uh very happy for you and all the the the changes going on in your life it seems like you're in a great place and i hope that you can keep that up and and and win five six seven eight in a row and and really you know be in the mix there at 155. So thank you so much, Terrence. Really appreciate it. Thank you very much, brother. Pleasure as always.

Thank you. Really appreciate it. There he is, Terrence McKinney, T-Rex, with the big win on Saturday. A very impressive showing out of him. And those stats are nuts. Those stats are absolutely nuts. I still can't believe he hasn't won a,

I mean, the seven-second KO over Matt Favola, that's got to be performance bonus worthy, no? Seven seconds? Fastest knockout in lightweight history, one of the greatest divisions in the history of the sport? Crazy talk. In a moment, we're going to be joined, hopefully by David Benavidez,

who had the tremendous win on Saturday. He capped off on Crown Saturday. Did you guys see Stephen Fulton in the co-main, what he was wearing? It was a tremendous fit, as the kids like to say. Who saw it? Anyone see it? We have it right here. Yeah, man, i saw it uh he was rocking the uh the jorts do we have it or no i thought we would have it efforting well there it is there it is stephen fulton look at that and the tims the george shorts and the tims boxing shoes man it's a great look as As New York as it gets. Yo, the Timbs are crazy.

Now, the question is, we have footage of him in the locker room. I don't know. I don't know if the, are those real? I don't know. Are those actual, are those boxing? They're boxing shoes. Are they really? They're made to look like Timbs, yeah.

Man, I don't know. Something about the tongue over there. I actually think the shorts are also just boxing. The shorts are for sure. They made to look like Tim's, yeah. Man, I don't know. Something about the tongue over there. I actually think the shorts are also just boxy. The shorts are for sure. They make him look like Jorts. Yeah, I guess from this vantage point. The rips on the end. Now, Tim's soles are massive. They're super thick.

Yeah, that would be crazy. And he won, by the way, and looked great. Great look. As a dog. No less, I think. Yep, a rematch of a fight from a few years ago. The main event was one of the best fights of the year. Obviously, we'll be talking about this fight all year long, and we had high expectations going into it. And in some way, somehow, it exceeded those expectations. In the end, it was a fairly easy one to score. on his way as a light heavyweight and in line for a massive showdown, hopefully against the winner of Artur Beterbiev and Dmitry Bivol, which goes down February 22nd in Riyadh.

David Benavidez is kind enough to join us right now. What a great honor it is to have him after that big win. David, thank you so much for the time. Congratulations on the massive win. Yeah, thank you guys, man. I appreciate you guys. I'm glad everybody had a good time watching the fight. Oh, it was unbelievable.

Can I just ask you before we get to your fight, what did you make of that outfit from Stephen Fulton? Do you think those were actual Tims or do you think they were Tims disguised as boxing boots? No, when I was looking at them like that, that's crazy. I've never seen that before. I thought they were actual Tims, but I think he just took the bottom part off where it's the heaviest. But it was a cool outfit. I've never seen that before. Would you ever do that? Would you ever be risque with your boots like that?

No, that's not my style. Yeah. No, I had a feeling. So like I said, incredible performance, and there's much to get into there. Ultimately, I know you were unhappy with your light heavyweight debut. This time around, despite not getting the knockout, I would imagine you're thrilled with how you looked on Saturday. Yeah, I was very happy with this fight. You know,

I know exactly what we're going into. I know David Murrell was a strong fighter. You know, I know he had power in both hands and, you know, but I think I showed exactly who I am in this fight. You know, even after, you know, um, you know, I received a heavy shot in round four, I still stayed in there and still decided to brawl with him. And that's exactly who I am. I was surprised. I thought one of the keys to your victory were the body shots. And I was surprised at how little he went to your body. Were you surprised as well? Or was that something you were expecting?

No, I think, well, if you look at David Merle, he's not really a consistent body puncher like that. That's why I felt like my style was the perfect style for him because he's a lefty and his liver was close to my left hand. So I just kept him in that body all night long. And I know he wasn't going to be able to do nothing to defend that shot because that's a shot that I throw very well. Yeah, you landed twice the amount of body shots that he landed, which I thought was a huge part of your victory. You were landing some incredibly hard punches, especially back into the fight. At any point, are you thinking to yourself like,

yo, man, this guy's eating some shots. You're like, what do I have to do to take him out? Yeah, I was a bit surprised, bro, to be honest with you. But like I said, this is a big fight. This is a big moment. When there's moments like this, you know, these guys really, they really don't want to go down, you know, and especially in a big fight like this. So in my mind, I just try to stay focused. Like, you know, let's just keep going. And if he doesn't go down, he doesn't go down,

but I'm going to just still keep attacking that body until I see him hurt or I see him go down. I've seen him hurt a lot of times in the fight, but like I said, hats off to David Morel. You know, he's, he's, uh, he has a lot of heart as well. This felt to me, and I'd love to know if you agree with this sentiment, this felt like a big step up in your career, not only from an opponent standpoint, but also, you know, you were the show, all eyes on you. The promotion was fantastic. Like this was to me a massive, massive fight. And, and, and as far as attention and buzz and hoopla and spotlight and everyone talking about it the biggest of your career at las vegas t-mobile the place looked packed it looked like a sellout did it feel like a step up in your in your career like as far as

like okay now i'm starting to get the attention and the respect that i deserve i'm the main event i'm the draw i'm the a side it's about Yeah, definitely. It did feel like it was the biggest fight of my career. It kind of felt like my arrival to the big stage, you know what I mean? And what makes me happy is that we were able to sell the fight out. You know, the stadium was packed. We were able to, you know, do really good on the promotion. And like how you said, the fight lived up to the hype. And this is really what I'm here for. You know, I just I want to give the fans the fights that they'll remember for a long, long time, and that's what I felt like

we did last Saturday. Sometimes there's great promotion and it feels somewhat fabricated, and other times it feels personal, and this one, at least from our perspective, felt personal. The face-to-face that you guys did on this show a couple weeks back, it got heated there.

Was it personal for you? And did you have to check your emotions on Saturday to not kind of fight out of character because of the emotions involved? No, yeah, it definitely was personal. And I think it was a little obvious, too, from the way how we were both fighting. You know, when it gets personal like that, that's why it's good for the fights to get personal. Because, you know, two men that really don't like each other,'re gonna go in there and then they're gonna go to war you know david murrow he's known as a fighter that moves around the ring a lot he didn't use the ring at all you know i mean he was going back and forth with me and you know like i said i was gonna keep my word

i was gonna go toe-to-toe and you know that's what the fans love to see and like i said i'm happy with the performance that we both gave uh when you were on the show a couple weeks back you you spoke of his uh his manager making more money than him. And then at the press conference on Thursday, it got really heated between you two. And then at the post-fight

press conference, I thought, I didn't know if there were going to be like punches thrown there. And here's this gentleman who, I don't know, 60s maybe,

late 60s, getting in your face and like begging you to hit him and saying, I'm not scared of you. What is going through your mind as all this is playing out?

To be honest with you, I knew he was going to still be heated after the fight, you know, because I put a beating on Moreau. And, you know, I kind of went in his face and I told him, you know, I told him what I told you was going to happen when I was in the ring after. So, you know, I kind of kept it going a little bit. But as for that, he was probably just telling me that so I could probably, he probably thought I was going to slap him. And as for that, he was probably just telling me that so I could probably, he probably thought I was going to slap him. And then he, honestly, he probably would have sued me.

But, you know, I was just, like I said, I try to remain humble after the fight. You know, I even gave David Morello's belt back because that's his memorabilia from, you know, that title stays with him. So I was just trying to be, you know, show sportsmanship. You know, there was no need to keep going after that. And, you know, but the gentleman, the gentleman kept talking, you know, it got a little bit heated, but, you know, honestly, that, that doesn't even matter no more. Yeah. I'm just, I'm just excited that me and David Morel, you know, we show each other respect. And at the end of the day, you know, a lot of these fights, they get heated, but as soon as you go

in there, you go to war. And I feel like you have to give the respect where the respect is deserved. One last question on that. Was it hard for you not to do something? Because it did seem like it was getting quite heated, especially in the post-fight. No, to be honest with you, because I don't get no satisfaction in slapping somebody that's old.

I probably would have broken his freaking head, to be honest with you, but I'm not trying to hurt anybody. You know, honestly, if somebody tries to do something to me, then I'll protect myself. But I'm not trying to go out there and just hurt somebody for no reason. It's very rare to see what you did in the post-fight, giving Morel his belt back. Why did you feel the need to do that? Well, I mean, you're supposed to give the belt backs anyways like i said because

the wba that was his belt that's specifically for him so they're gonna send me my belt but as for like everything was going on with his manager and stuff you know i thought it would be something honorable for me to do in front of all the crowds you know just to let everybody know that me and the fighter made up you know we both have respect for each other and that his promoter you know is kind of trying to drag it along too much. So I thought it was something cool and something honorable to do in front of all the people. Yeah. Like I said, don't often see that. So, so much respect to you. As far as you're concerned, is it over between you two? Is there no bad blood anymore?

No, there's no, there's no bad blood no more unless we fight again. You know what I mean? Then some trash talk may start up, but you know uh i see no i wanted to get your take on it you know i've seen a lot of people saying that they want a rematch do you think that sprite deserve no a rematch no way i mean it was it was way too one-sided it was there was there was no controversy um the scorecards i mean i i have them in front of me uh one judge had a 118 to 108, the other one 115 to 111. You know, 118 to 108 does not demand any type of, you know, of rematch. 115 to 111 as well, if you want to say that was it. I was watching it and just kind of enjoying it.

But to me, like it was fait accompli. You were winning that fight by several rounds. You need to move on. Like I said, you need to fight the winner of Dimitri Bivol versus Artur Beterbiev too. Anything else is a travesty. Anything else is a crime. You're the next guy and the idea of you fighting

either one of those guys is just like, is boxing bliss to me, is an incredible fight. You're one of the most exciting fighters in the sport and deserve these big fights. That would be a Morel rematch, in my opinion, would be a massive step back for you. Yeah. Yeah, well, I appreciate your support, bro.

And, you know, like I said, it makes me happy that I could have, like, even like you, like, you're an analyst, not only for boxing, but for UFC, and that you could sit there and enjoy these fights. Like I said, this is what I'm here to do, you know what I mean? And I'm just here to be the best in the world and, you know, fight the best fighters in the world and give the fans the best fights that they can remember for, you know, for decades and decades. How confident are you, David, that you will fight the winner of Better Be a Bivol? Yeah, I'm pretty confident. To be honest, the only thing that I'm thinking about is that if Bivol wins this fight, like, they would have to do a rubber match. You know what I mean?

And me, I'm just thinking, who am I to say that they can't fight another fight because they've fought two great fights. So that's basically the only thing I'm thinking of right now. But if something like that would happen, I think I wouldn't fight until they get that done with and then I would move into that fight after they have a trilogy so that's really the only thing i'm thinking right now but that's a that would be a long break for you like

let's say conceivably they fight again october you know who knows i know this was a quick turnaround but you know they take that break during and and now you're fighting again at least next year like early next year my take on it is i thought dimitri bivel won the first fight i know i know it was close if he wins it again we need a break from those two as much as i'd love to see them fight 10 times you waiting in the wings is just so fresh and fun and i'm not just saying it because you're here i would say it if you weren't here you fight the winner and, and then we kind of, you know. Yeah, do a circle back. Yes, yes.

It's two. And so have you ever sat down with Turkey? Do you have any kind of relationship with him? I've talked to him on the phone. My dad has sat down and talked to him. But I think we're going to go over there February 22nd. So we'll probably figure everything out, you know, if B-Bowl wins again or if he if

he wins so um but yeah that is probably long too much too much of a long time so yeah we'll see we'll see what happens man but like the good thing is that you know um you know we got a lot of big things coming up we got potentially a you know unification coming up and i think now i proved everybody you know what level i'm on and you know I've proved to everybody how much heart I have. So, you know, me against anybody, bro. I'll bet the house on me against anybody. And I'm just looking forward to, you know, keep making history. I love the fact that you're going there.

Be there in the front row. Make your presence felt. Let them know that they are not only fighting for each other's belts, but for the prize to fight you. That's the way to do it. Do you have a preference? Would you prefer, if you had your pick of the two, do you have a preference as to who you'd fight? So to be honest with you, I would pick Bivol because Bivol beat Canelo. So basically,

when I beat Bivol, that'll make my case better than Canelo. And I know Dimitri Bivol really well. I sparred him a lot. You know, he's a great fighter and we've had a lot of great sparring sessions, you know, so I definitely would love to fight Bivol. So just this morning, The Ring Magazine, which is owned by Turkey, reported that Canelo and Crawford have agreed to the September date and that it's essentially on. What is your, I know this has been rumored and talked about, but now it seems like a done deal. What's your reaction to this? It's a good fight.

It's a good fight for both of them. Good fight for... I think it's more important for Crawford than anybody. But I think if anybody could beat Canelo, I think Crawford could. I think it's just... The size plays a massive difference. But like I said, it's a good fight. I have no bad feelings for that fight. It's a good fight you know i have no bad uh feelings

for that fight it's a good fight there's no part of you that's like come on man like i was right here i had i had to move to visit like the whole game is to like you know what i mean a little a little bit but i don't want to seem like a hater you know like i said we i'm blessed and i got my position right here you know i mean so i'm probably you I'm probably in a big position as well. Just happy for Crawford that he's able to get a big fight like that too. I know you said he could be the guy. What kind of a chance do you ultimately give him?

I think I'd give him a 7 out of a 10. Oh wow, that high. I thought you were going to say 25. Crawford is good. I think he's been known that he's he's going to fight canelo for a long long time and you know property he likes he likes to pick up the weight so i'm sure he's been working on the weights for a long long time so you know crawford when he has uh with a person that has a big iq like that if you do enough weights you

know and you stay working for a long time you know you have a a punch of chance and you could you know you definitely you know uh make the a punch of chance and you could you know, you definitely, you know, make the other guy uncomfortable or hurt him a couple times. So, yeah, Crawford is a really good fighter. You know, I don't, I wouldn't be surprised if he wins. Wow, okay. I don't know if a lot of people are picking that,

but obviously your opinion would matter most. True or false, by the time Canelo's career is over, he will have fought David Benavidez. True. I think it will happen. Like I said, I just got to keep doing what I'm doing. I think now what I've showed is that, you know, I'm a big enough name, you know, David Murrell wasn't really that known,

but we still sold out of 20,000, you know, 20,000 people in the T-Mobile arena, you know, I'm sure the pay-per-views are pretty good. So I think I'm making my case, you know, and it's-Mobile arena, you know, I'd share the pay-per-views are pretty good, so I think I'm making my case, you know, and, you know, I still have a lot of room to grow, so by the time Canelo, I don't know when Canelo's gonna retire,

but, you know, by the time, maybe in a couple years, this fight will probably be even bigger than it was when they first, you know, when people were first talking about it, so I'll have more titles, you know, Canelo will probably have more titles, and it'll just make it for a bigger fight. Kind of like Mayweather Pacquiao.

Yeah. In the last couple years, did it ever get close enough to the point where you actually thought it was going to happen? Did it ever get to the goal line, so to speak? I mean, I don't know about the paperwork, that side, but I felt like it was really close happening because I had did everything I was supposed to do to get the fight.

And like I said, the people want the fight. So these past two years, I thought it was going to happen. But I guess it's just not time yet. It feels like this is the type of performance, the one that you had on Saturday, that finally gets you into that pound-for-pound discussion, which seems like it's been long overdue as well. Do you feel like you are finally getting that respect as well? Yeah, definitely. And I feel like after I unify all the belts on 175, then that's when I'm definitely going to get all the respect that I

knew one day I would get. Do you think 175 is the highest that you'll go, or do you have aspirations to go even higher than that? To be honest with you right now, I feel pretty good at 175, but I know the more strength and conditioning you do, the more weight that you're going to carry through the finishing of your career. I'm sure I'll get bigger. I think I could do cruiserweight, but after cruiserweight, I don't think I'll be able to go up any more than that. Sure. Like when you were a kid, how big were you? I was 260 pounds, but that was complete fat. That was just fat. You know what I mean? But I could get up to 200, you know what I think? But I just really don't want to get over that. You know what I mean? I don't want to, you know, be 220 or i just really don't want to get over that you know i mean i don't want to you know be 220 or like that i feel like for me you know it's easy to walk around with that

weight outside the ring but when you're fighting these big guys 220 pounds and all these dudes hit freaking like got nukes in their hands you know it's a little bit different do you feel now comfortable at 175 or do you think 68 is your ideal weight class no i feel i feel comfortable at 175 i feel like with every fight i'm getting stronger and stronger it's like when you first get in a new weight class you still you gotta like uh take accountability like your weight because this fight i came in at 196 that's probably the heaviest i've ever been so you're just working with that new weight throwing at those new punches and you're just getting used to the weight you know um so now i feel 100% comfortable being at 175 and, you know, fighting at 195.

Do you think there is going to be a point where Morel builds himself back up to where that fight would be massively? I know you said beforehand, you wanted him to never fight again and all this stuff. Do you think that it gets to the point where he's able to build himself back up? Yeah, I think so. I think there's a good opportunity that later in the future, because we're both pretty young, that we can fight again.

And I'd love to fight him again, you know, just to shut everybody up because I think I showed that I'm levels above him and he'll never be able to beat me, no matter if it's now, if you do a rematch now, 10 years, never. You know, especially now that I know his style up close and personal, he'll never be able to beat me. By the it's now if you do a rematch now 10 years never you know especially now that i know his style up close and personal he'll never be able to beat me by the way you say shut everyone up but that's what i'm saying that he's a good fighter he might be able to rack up a

lot of good uh wins beating a lot of good fighters so you know if we could do it again in five years so i'm ready to do it in five years again you said shut everyone up who's saying anything after that performance are the are you still hearing doubts? It's probably just Instagram, bro. Nah, don't listen to that shit, man. Come on. What can they possibly say? It was quite one-sided. Like I said, at the end of the day,

whoever they want to see me fight, I'm ready to fight whoever. The best guys. Like I'm saying, Morel, he's probably going to come back and be good in the future. I'm ready to beat the best guys, you know what I mean? Like I'm saying, Morel, he's probably going to be, he's probably going to come back and, you know, be good in the future, so I'm ready to beat the top guys, because I really love this, you know, I love, I love the competitiveness in the ring, and I love

fighting, I think I showed everybody exactly who I am. Two last things on the fight, 11th round, the knockdown, how annoyed are you with this? Yeah, I was really annoyed, because when it happened i knew that it wasn't a knockdown i knew it was a fucking like a like a push and then you know so but i'm just trying to keep keep my my my emotions in check and then when i seen it after i'm like

oh man she wasn't even a fucking knockdown and then what did piss me off too is that when he fucking when i came back i'm sorry for cursing. No, go ahead. When I came back, I had a little flurry, and then he hit me right after the bell. So, yeah, that kind of pissed me off. It was like a double in one. It was a fake knockdown, and then he took a cheap shot after the round. And so, yeah, that was the next question.

You have that flurry at the end, and then he gets a point deducted. So the knockdown essentially gets negated. Did that mess you up? Did that stun you for a minute? Yeah, it was a good shot, especially when you hear the bell. You hear the bell ring, and you're not expecting to get hit. You get hit, you know what I mean? But like I said, these are some heavy dudes, bro.

You know, this is boxing. You know, you're going to get hit here and there. It's really about how hard you get hit and how hard you come back, you know, because eventually everybody gets hit. It was great to see you with your son at the Open Workouts at the Post Fight Press Conference. Do you feel, here he is, do you feel like he wants to, I mean, it looks like he's got skills there. Does he want to follow in your footsteps? And would you be supportive of that if he wants to become a fighter as well?

Oh, yeah, definitely he is. And, you know, that's the thing I talked to my wife. I already made the decision. I told her that all our kids that are boys, they're going to follow the Benavides legacy. After I'm done with my career, I'm going to put all my time and effort into my

son's career and I'm going to make sure that they follow the legacy and become champions for themselves because boxing has given me so much. It's really allowed me to change my life for the best and I want them to follow the same path. I already have all the connections in boxing and I know how to get up to this level so I might as well put my sons in boxing and make them champions as well. And my son, he's a fanatic of boxing. He trains all day and all night.

So I think they'll have a pretty easy transitioning. I love it. How many kids you have now? I have two. I have one son, one daughter, and then my other son comes May 25th. Oh, wow. Okay, so exciting times.

Obviously, good luck with that. And I hope it all goes very smoothly. If the girl wants to fall in your footsteps, what happens?'t want her to box but it's crazy that sometimes when you don't want the women to box that they box so if she box and not then i'll support her but i don't want her to box okay fair enough um so the plan is uh you you will be there in riyadh or at least you want to uh be there up close and and and personal get to see it all and and hopefully have a chat with turkey who's who's turning the game upside down. I would imagine, as

someone at the very top of the game, you have to be loving this. I know you're a PBC guy and all this stuff, but this is great for everyone, right? Yeah, no, it's great stuff. It's great for the world of boxing, and we're going to be able to give the people a lot of the fights that they want to see, and a lot of the fights that we never thought we were going to see.

We're in a good era right now for boxing. I really appreciate you coming on, David, after the big win on Saturday. Congratulations. Incredible stuff. What a fight. It was so much fun. And you guys delivered. You delivered leading up to the fight and then on fight night as well. So enjoy the victory. Safe travels out there to Riyadh. And I sincerely hope you get to fight the winner of that main event. Yeah, thank you, brother. God bless you guys. There he is, David Benavidez, after his big win on Saturday against David Murrell, and this is great, because in

19 days, we get a big one between Artur Beterbiev and Dmitry Bivol. They fought back in October. It was a very close fight, and ultimately won by B better BF. I thought Bivel won, but he's in the same weight class, 175. That's light heavyweight in the sweet science. It's very tasty.

So he's close. He's close. I was watching his fight and then I turned it off and I was like, oh my God, Luka Doncic has been traded. Oh my God, could you imagine? Crazy.

All right, thank you very much to Mr. David Benavidez. Thank you to our good friends at Avron, avronactive.com slash uncrowned for their support. In about an hour, we're going to be joined by wrestling sensation Joe Hendry. But very, very excited to say hello to our next guest who is joining us in studio. The pride of Poland is here, my friends. Oh, the veteran from all the way in Poland. Yes, there she is, Karolina Kowalkiewicz.

Hello, Karolina. How are you? So nice to see you. How's everything? Everything is good. First time in studio. Yes. Welcome, welcome.

This is so nice. I saw that you were in New York and I said you should come to our show. Yes, I have friends here, so I'm visiting them. You're here a lot. Yes, yes, yes, because my best friends live here. That's why I'm visiting New York. And you had a friend who was fighting on Saturday, right?

Yes. In Newark. Yes, yes, Polish guy. Polish guy. Did he win? Yes. Okay. By knockout in the first round.

Wow. And is this a training partner of yours? No, no, no,. Polish guy. Did he win? Yes. Okay. By knockout in the first round. Wow. And is this a training partner of yours? No, no, no, no. Okay. But just a friend? Yes. There's a lot of Polish people in New Jersey, in New York. Do you go to any of the restaurants or you don't really want to eat Polish food because?

You have amazing restaurant in Brooklyn, Pierożek. Oh, yes. They have delicious Polish food. You must go there. Is that Greenpoint? Which part of Brooklyn? It's near Greenpoint, yeah. Okay, yes.

Because I used to live right next to Greenpoint, and it was a huge Polish community there. Yes, yes. In New York, here lives a lot of Polish people. Yes. We have big Polish community here. You love it here. Yes, I love New York. You know, Iiam to. Uwielbiam New York. Nie lubię miast, preferuję naturalność, ale nie wiem, czy to miejsce jest wyjątkowe. Chcesz tu mieszkać?

Nie, nie, nie. Teraz jestem w Floridzie. Jesteś pełnym czasem w Floridzie? Tak. Dlaczego zdecydowałaś się żyć pełnym czasem, a nie tylko w szpitalach? So you're full-time in Florida? Yes. Okay, so why did you make the decision to live full-time and not just training camps? Because I want to train all the time, not only in fight camps. In Poland, we have good gyms, but, you know, American Top Team is the best gym in the world. Yes. In American Top Team, I have a lot of sparring partners, so that's why I decided to move to Florida.

And I love this place. I love Florida. I want to stay here forever. Forever? Yeah. Okay. Right now, I'm working on my green card and stuff. Is it looking good?

I know I had to do green card as well. It's very tough. Yeah, it's not easy. Yes. They don't make it easy on you here. Yeah, a lot of paperwork. Yes. Very stressful for me, but I think everything will be okay.

I saw you're obviously training at ATT and there's Kayla Harrison there. Yes. And Dakota, Dakota Deceva. Yes. A lot of people think she could be like the future face of women's MMA. How good is she? Oh my God. She's amazing. How good is she? Oh, my God. She's amazing.

She's amazing, really. She's very talented, very strong, and a very nice person. Yeah. So now there's like a lot of new blood coming in, right? Yes. And you're still hanging around. I know after the last fight you had to go on social media and say you're not retiring. Were there people asking you this question? Why did you feel the need to say that after the

fight you know this year I will be 14 yeah and a lot of people I don't know why they ask me about my retired and always when I losing the fight they send me to retired I don't know. I don't know why. I don't know why. Who, the fans? Yeah. No, they are not my fans. No, they're not.

They are haters. They are haters. Do you get that a lot though? Yes. Ugh. Yes. Is it disappointing? No, for me it's motivation.

Okay. So you went on and right away you said I'm not retiring. Yes. And I think you have said you want at least two more fights, right? For sure.

I want to have two more fights and then we will see. Okay. We will see. Have you, why did you pick two? Like is there

a specific reason for that? I have two fights in my contract. Okay. And I want to have 20 fights in UFC. Right? I have two fights in my contract. Okay. And I want to have 20 fights in UFC. Right now I have 18.

So this is my little goal to have 20 fights in UFC. And in December... Maybe more, we will see. Yeah, December will be 10 years for you in the UFC. Yes, yes. Are you surprised

that it lasted this long? Did you think, you know, what were you thinking when you came and you were signed in December of 2015? Oh my God. For me, it was

something more than my dreams come true. Sorry for my English. I'm still learning English. This is my second language. But when I signed contract with UFC, it was more than I expected from MMA. Yeah.

And right now I am here 10 years and this is, this is amazing. This is the one of the best thing in my life, UFC, you know, UFC changed my life. Because when you started in 2012, there wasn't even women in the UFC. So what was the goal for you? Like what was the highest you can get if it wasn't the UFC? You know, at the beginning I didn't have a goal. I just enjoyed it. I had fun.

I started making money on MMA and yeah, but when Ronda came to UFC they at the beginning there were only one division, women division. But when they make

115, my division, I knew I wanted to be part of UFC. And that changed everything. Yes. You know, one division, I knew I wanted to be part of UFC. And that changed everything. Yes. You know, one thing that I love about having people in studios that you can talk, you know, when you're on Zoom, it's a little bit different. So you can ask about how they started.

And so this is the first time that we get to talk about all of this. Your entry into martial arts was through Krav Maga, right? Yes. You were just someone who wanted to learn self-defense. Yes. I just wanted to learn self-defense. Just like that. And after a few years, I became a Krav Maga instructor and I teach people.

So I thought maybe I need to train something more because I want to be a good instructor. And I choose MMA. And oh my God, I remember my first training. And I was fell in love in MMA. Oh, wow. Yeah. So you didn't get like beat up or sometimes people have stories of getting beat up. No, no, no. And when I start train MMA, I didn't want to be a fighter. I just want to be better instructor. Okay.

Why did you choose Krav Maga initially? I don't know. My friend took me to the training, Kraft Maga, and I had great fun there. Why did you feel, you said you wanted it for like self-defense. Yes.

Was there a specific reason why you felt like you needed that? Yes. Lara Croft and Tom Fryder. Lara Croft? Yes, and Tom Fryder. Lara Croft? Yes, and Tom Fryder. Wow, the video game. Yeah, she was big.

When I was a little girl, she was a big inspiration for me. Wow. You know, strong, independent woman. And I want to be like her. That's why I study archaeology. Really? Yeah, I study archaeology. And that's why I start training martial Yeah, I study archaeology.

And that's why I start training martial arts, Krav Maga. There's a Lara Croft. Yes. Wow, Tomb Raider, the video game. Yes, yes. Did you ever dress up as her for Halloween? I feel like everyone at some point dresses up as Lara Croft. Yes, when I was in school, when I was, I don't know, 15 years old. Yes.

So she was a hero of yours. Yes. Because, you know, yesterday I was reading on UFC.com, you know, they have like these, the bios, they don't really do it that much anymore. And you said that your hero was like a journalist lady. Martyna Wojciechowska. Yeah, no way I can pronounce her name.

You didn't write Lara Croft though. Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, Lara Croft, she's not real. And Martina Wojciechowska, she's a real person. She's amazing. Who is she? She's a traveler, journalist from Poland. She...

I don't know how to say. She's like a host, someone on TV, right? She has her own TV show. Okay. But she do a lot of amazing, extreme things. For example, she went on Dakar. She finished Dakar really. She's a diver.

She, she, oh my God, sorry. I don't know how to say. She was on Mount Everest. Yes, she's like a, she's a climber. She's adventurous. Yes, yes.

Very much like you. Is this, is this why you are the way you are? Yes, she was big inspiration for me too. Here you are doing all kinds of stuff. This is from your... Look at all this stuff. This is crazy stuff.

I love it. You love all this. I am junk adrenaline, yeah. Adrenaline junkie, yes. Some of the stuff is scary, no? No. No scary? No.

Did you ever get hurt doing this stuff? Look at that. Look at this. It's crazy in the caves and all that. Yeah, it's crazy, but I love it. I love it. Your family's okay with that? Yes.

No problem. No problem. Never any like scary moments? No, I never had serious injury doing this stuff. So I know this is dangerous, but you can do this safely this safely yeah if you're careful yeah were you always like that even as a young kid yes always like taking risks and doing crazy things getting in trouble as well no no I was very nice kids okay my parents didn't have problem with me okay were they surprised when you said that you wanted to fight they were okay no problem no problem they probably always support me in

my decision sometimes you know sometimes they didn't understand this but they always support me even when you wanted to like make a living out it, not just to train and have fun. No problem. Yes. They said, would they go to your fights? My dad was one time on my fight, but he didn't watch my fight. This is too stressful for him. Yeah.

But my mom, she watched my fight. Wow. Yeah. In person or on TV? In TV. She was one time on UFC Gdańsk. Okay. She was there but right now she watches in TV. Okay. And when you were in college you also studied journalism, right? Yes. But you didn't continue with it? No, no. I studied only one year. Yeah.

And then I started studying archaeology. You didn't like it? You know, I had... I had work, study, training, and it was too much for me and I had to choose something so I chose training and work and that's why I

but then you went to archaeology did you finish that? no did you finish anything in college? no you didn't finish college? no do you want to finish or are you done with that?

I'm done with that. Yeah, finish. So when the time comes that you have to stop fighting, do you think you'll stay in MMA? Coach, something like that? Or do you want to do something completely different? Maybe, I don't know. I cannot imagine my life without MMA, without UFC. So maybe when I go retired,ję bez MMA, bez UFC. Może kiedy będę odzyskała, to pracę nad UFC. W Polsce mamy fundację, która pomaga dzieciom grać w sport.

To jest dla mnie bardzo ważne, bo sport daje ci moc, ale nie tylko fizycznie, ale też mentalnie. Tak, pewność. Tak. Widziałem na Twoim stronie, że to jest fundacja, ale to jest wszystko w polskim języku. Co to jest? K2 Zaborowska Fundacja. Co to znaczy? K2 to...

To jest to, prawda? Tak, to jest górka K2. O, górka K2, okej. Tak, bo wiesz, okay. Yeah, because you can do everything. Right, and why did it or how did it come about? What made you start it? Because sports saved my life. When I was a teenager, I was depressed.

I took medicine. I was very sick. Byłam depresyjna, wzięłam medycynę, byłam bardzo zimna, bardzo zaskoczona. Nie chcę już już odpocząć. O, naprawdę? Tak, tak. Kiedy zaczęłam trenować krawmaga, wszystko się zmieniło. Kiedy zaczęłam tren training sport, everything was changed. And that's why I want to help kids, young people, to play sports,

to have passion, you know. Because if you have passion in your life, everything is more simple. Yeah. Why were you so depressed? I don't know. I was sick, you know, I was sick. Was that something in your family or was it, you know, sometimes it's like hereditary where depression is something that

gets passed down. Did other members of your family deal with this or was it unique? It was just you. It was just me. When you were a teenager? Yes. And did you talk to anyone about this? Yes, I talked with my mom, with my dad. They sent me to the psychologist. Yeah. Psychiatrist? Yeah, psychiatrist. Yeah, yeah.

It didn't work? No. And he gave me some medicine, but no good. No good. No. Sport was better. You couldn't find the root of it. you couldn't find the uh the the the root of it you couldn't find the reason yes you didn't know why you were just sad but you did nothing had

happened to me yeah you had a good childhood you you had a good family yes yes did you you have siblings brothers and sisters i have i have uh two brothers uh two younger brothers okay and are Mam dwa siostry, dwa młodsze siostry. I są oni też w marcylach? Nie, nie, nie. Co oni robią? Mam Dominika, który jest dwa lata młodszy od mnie, a Wiktora, który jest 20 lat młodszy od mnie, a on jest moim półbratkiem, ponieważ moi rodzice zostały wywolone, younger than me and he's my half brother because my parents was divorced yeah and and my father had another kid and dominic he lives in netherlands and he's a dutch teacher oh wow

yeah okay so completely different than you yes oh my god he speaks uh fluently flu languages and he learned it by himself and I have problem with Polish and with English you know so when you were feeling down how do you come to the conclusion that this is going sport is going to help you what gets you to the

gym because I want to be like Lara Croft you know that's why I go to the gym. And after first training, when I back home, I felt happy, you know, first time since few months, I felt happy. And I knew this is something for me. This is it. Did any of your friends do it also?

Or did you go by yourself? I go with my friends. Okay. And did they keep with it as well? No. No. How long did they last? I don't remember.

Okay. But obviously they didn't make a career out of it. No, no. Like you. Isn't that crazy? You just go to the gym just to feel better and then all of a sudden it became your life. Yes. Yes.

And I didn't want to be a fighter uh i didn't i don't know how i don't know how it happened but after my first amateur fight i knew this is something for me this is for you wow did you even know what mma was no you never Did you watch boxing or anything like that? Nothing, wow, that's crazy. And then you made a whole career out of it. And then you eventually get to KSW. Yes. And you become their first and only flyweight champion.

KSW, unbelievable organization, the production. They are great, they are great. Do you still watch their shows? Yes, and when I am in Poland, I go for the shows for the KSW because, you know, they are my friends. Right. They are like my home. Yeah. Do you feel like they can get even bigger?

I hear sometimes the viewership, it's crazy numbers over there. Like it's, would you say KSW is more popular than UFC in Poland? That more people know what it is? Few, few years ago, yes, but,

but right now I, I think UFC is more popular. Yeah, but, but they are still, uh, I think they are the biggest organization in Europe. Yes. Oh yeah, for sure. Them, there's Octagon, but, and, Ale są jeszcze... Myślę, że są największą organizacją w Europie. Tak, na pewno.

Jest Octagon, ale jest też duża różnica w zakresie produkcji. Co to za Mariusz Pudzianowski? Jaki to jest chłopak. To niesamowite. Tak, był silnym człowiekiem. Tak, jest dobrym chłopakiem. and yeah he's uh he's nice guy oh and he was first polish fighter in american top team you know that is that true yeah in florida yeah wow he went there he went when he when he made the transition yeah wow i didn't know that i don't know uh he didn't he didn't last very long no no no no how

did you get over there to american top yeah oh this is crazy story because i was after five losses in ufc and i want to quit everything go retired but first i want to win win fight right fight that's why i go to to american top team Dlatego idę na zespoły Amerykanie. Na ostatni mecz w mojej karierze sportowej i po tym meczu chcę wyjechać na wymiar. Ale kiedy zaczęłam trenować w zespole Amerykanie, kiedy zaczęłam trenować z Parumpa, z Andersonem, z Evertonem, zmieniło mi się to. Bardzo Ci się to podobało. with Anderson, with Everton. It changed my mind. You liked it so much. Yeah, yeah. And when my husband visited me,

I told him, you know, we need to change our whole life. We need to rent apartment here. I want to move here for a few years. Wow. But right now we want to stay there. Your husband is your coach. He was my coach.

He was your coach. But he's not anymore. Right now he don't watch my fight he can't he can't he's too nervous you know but did you meet in the gym yes so when you decided to go to american top team was he your coach at that point yes was that weird was that awkward i mean he wasn't your husband at the time right but you But you were a couple, right? So was it awkward to say, I want to go somewhere else to train? No, he told me, if you want to fight, you need to go to American Top Team. Oh, wow.

And I called to JJ, to Joanna and JJ, and asked her, can I train in American Top Team? And she said, okay, I can help you. I know you had the history with Joanna. Were you friends at the time? Or not really? We are friends right now. Yes, but when you called her to say... No, no. In that time we didn't have good relations. Yeah but but i knew if i uh ask her for a help

she will help me wow so i called her just out of the blue yeah did you ever have a conversation with her on the phone prior to that yeah you did but you were not in a good point in your relationship yeah but right now we are you're all good yeah it's it's a past but that's the reason i'm asking is because it's a big thing to call her up and say you know given your history were you nervous about it were you nervous that she might say no no okay no because you you know i always respect her and i know she respect me yeah maybe she didn't like me but but I know she respects me. That fight at UFC 205,

it was very heated. But it doesn't seem like you're... She was always a very intense person. That's why we love the face-offs and stuff like that. Was that uncomfortable for you to have that type of tension? No. It was okay. You enjoyed it? Yeah. Did you like the fact

that it was Poland versus Poland or would you have preferred it not to be? No, nie było zbyt dobrze. Użyłaś tego? Tak. Lubiłaś to, że to było Polska z Polską, czy nie lubiłaś tego? Było to fajne, ale nie fajne. Bo ktoś z Polski wygra. Lepiej, gdy Polski zawsze wygra. Ale to jest życie. I myślę że to było bardzo, bardzo fajne. Jaka była ta chwila, jaki był ten mecz? Pierwszy na MSG? Tak. McGregor i Alvarez.

Jaka jest Twoja ulubiona wspomnienia z tej tygodni? O mój Boże, wszystko. Ale myślę, że najlepsze było to, kiedy saw my face on the Times Square. It was so cool, you know. Yeah, it was something amazing for me. Like a dream. Yeah. More than dream.

Right. You couldn't even dream of such a thing. It was so crazy. Yes. You were at that press conference when Conor said to Jeremy Stevens, right? Yes. Always when I was on a press conference with Conor, something happened, you know? There was that one.

There was then for the Alvarez when he showed up late. Yes. Yeah. And I was in this bus when Conor... You were in the bus? Yeah, I was. With Khabib? Yes. Oh, my gosh.

But you didn't get hurt? No, no, no With Khabib? Yes. Oh my gosh. But you didn't get hurt? No, no, no. Were you afraid? No. You weren't afraid? No. You know, I am from Poland. What did you think was going on?

I don't know. I thought that someone made stupid jokes. Okay. Oh, you thought it was like a prank? Yeah, yeah. But Khabib obviously was probably pretty upset.

He was very calm. Okay. Maybe he was upset, but he was very calm. He said something, if Conor have something to me, he can come to me and we can talk or fight or something. And he asked everybody, are you okay? Are you okay?

And that was it yeah wow and then you guys got off the bus yes and then where did you go uh they took us to to the room yeah and one guy checked us is everything okay and after this we went back to the hotel crazy yeah it's a lot of great memories. Well, maybe not that one. Maybe that's not a great memory. Something memorable, something that you could tell your kids about, that you were on this infamous bus or not. Maybe you don't want to tell them about it. No, I think I will tell them. Funny story. Of course. Many. But going back to the MSG one, did you understand like how big of a deal MSG was?

Did you know what... Yes. Yes. Oh my God. It was something big for me. Yeah. And I think MSG is the best, my favorite place to fight.

Oh, really? Yeah. I love this place. What about it? It's full of history. Yeah, the world's most famous arena they say. Yes. You know they're coming in November, is that a goal for you? Maybe if the last one is there? Maybe, maybe. I fought in MSG two times, so maybe my last fight will be in MSG. We will see, we will see.

I don't want to think about retired right now because it's hard for me, you know, because I really love it. But we will see. That period where you had the five-fight losing streak and then you came back with four in a row wins, what a switch that is, right? Like, what a difference.

In the midst of the five fights, your confidence must have been, that's why you say you went to Florida. Yes. How are you handling it? I know it's, if you are a fighter and you win all the time, it's easy to love this sport. But when you start losing Jeśli jesteś walcą i zwycięsz cały czas, to jest łatwo podobać się tym sportowi. Ale kiedy zaczynasz stracić i stracisz i stracisz i wciąż chcesz to zrobić, to jest prawdziwy uroczy.

Bardzo lubię MMA, lubię UFC i wiedziałam, że mogę wygrać kolejny mecz. Wierzę w siebie, w to wierzę. Dlatego nie poddaję się. And I knew I can win my next fight. I believe in myself. I believe in it. That's why I didn't give up. Were you ever close to? No. No, never. Wow.

That's impressive. That first win, though, that must have been the greatest feeling. Yeah. Right? When you snapped the five-fight losing streak? Yeah. Who was that? Felice Herrig?

Felice Herrig. Yeah. And I won in second round by submission. And it was my first submission in UFC. So, you know, it was crazy. Would you say that's your favorite moment? Or is the first win the best? Or something else my favorite moment I think is is UFC 205 when I fought with with JJ I I know that fight but I I didn't feel like a loser you know okay how come before this fight a lot of people

told that JJ knocked me out in first round that I am not on her level and I fought with her five rounds and I think it was a very good fight

so you were proud of the fact that you hung in there with her and represented and your relationship with her now is good? I myślę, że to był bardzo dobry walczyk. Tak, więc jesteś zadowolona z tego, że się z nią złożyła i ją reprezentowała? Tak. I z jej relacją teraz jest dobrze? Bardzo dobrze. Czy ona jeszcze jest w gimnazjum? Nie, ona wróciła do Polski, ale wiem, że chce przejść do Las Vegas. O, wow.

Na początku przez rok i wtedy zobaczymy. And she will see what will happen. And you said that maybe when the time comes, in many years when you're done, you'd work for the UFC. What would you want to do? I don't know. I want to be close to the UFC because I love UFC. Yeah, you don't want to work for anyone or fight for anyone? No. UFC? No, only UFC.

My own company and UFC. That's right. Do you have your own promotion? Do you have your own company? Yes. That's right. Do you have your own promotion? Do you have your own company? Yes. What is that? We start our company here. We starting.

It's event company. We make sports event, theater event okay so not fighting not fighting no fighting okay in America

yes okay I saw I think it was either it was before your last fight or after your last fight you were with Dana White

you had a meeting with him you took a picture with him yes and you were very thankful that he took the time to meet with you yes

because after my last fight might me to do his office in in Las Vegas and it was very short meeting 15 minutes but it was it was very nice that he found time for me because he is very busy yes so he invited you yes Wow. Wow. And what did you guys talk about? It was private conversation. Okay, okay. But he's great guy.

He's the best boss. And he's big inspiration for me. From this guy, you can learn a lot of things, how to do business. Sure. Would you ever want to put on fights too? Like you said, you have the event company. Would you ever want to put on fights too? Like you said, you have the event company. Would you ever want to be a promoter also

to have your own MMA organization? No. No, you have no interest in that. No. You want to work with the UFC maybe. I think you've, in your career, in my opinion, had one of the best entrance songs, the Passenger by Iggy Pop.

And then the entrance music and the walkout with the way you would stand when they would announce your name was amazing, iconic. Why did you choose that song? When I heard that song, I knew this would be my walkout song. I heard it and I knew it.

So it wasn't a song from when you were very young. No. You heard it in your career. What was it about the song? You just, you like the vibe? Yeah, I like the vibe. Wow. I like the vibe.

And then the vibe that you have in the cage before they announce your name, when you would stand with your hands behind your back, what does that represent? I am very happy when I am in the octagon. I know I am in the right place. I am very calm, very focused, very grateful because, you know, not everybody can do what they love. Right. I can do this, so i am very grateful you're not nervous no no no anxiety no no no i am nervous on the fight camp you know when i for example when i have injury or something right when my sparring is not good but on the fight week, I am very, very happy, very calm.

That's crazy. Does anything make you nervous? My husband. What do you mean? I'm joking. Oh, my gosh. It was a joke. I know, I know.

But because he's a coach as well, does he critique your fights after? No. Nothing? No, he doesn't watch my fights anymore. Not even after? No. Even after a win? No, no. Why? He's too nervous. But he No, no. He don't watch my fight anymore. Not even after? No. Even after a win? No, no.

Why? He's too nervous. But he knows the result. Yes, but still, he don't want to watch it. Wow. I know, it's crazy. So he's not in the building? No.

So where is he when you fight? Last few times, he came here to New York to our friends, and he stayed with our friends, and I was in Las Vegas, for example. Oh, my gosh. Nightmare. And did he used to corner you? Yes. How many fights?

14 fights. In the UFC, too? Yeah. And then all of a sudden he can't even watch you yeah would you want him to be there? no

oh you don't why? no because he's so nervous and when he's nervous I'm nervous too

you know yeah yeah yeah so it's better so he doesn't even come on the trip with you no wow that's wild

and doesn't even watch it after what if you? No. Wow. That's wild. And doesn't even watch it after. What if you have an incredible win, you say, I want you to see it? Maybe he will watch it, but I don't know. The highlight something? Maybe highlights, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

That's amazing. I find that amazing, because you'll hear that a lot from family members who don't want to watch their loved one compete, but after the fight is over, they're okay with it because they know the result he just doesn't like the idea of you getting punched probably is he hoping that you retire soon uh yes yes but he always respect my decision yeah um and uh how is the scene back home in terms of like fighters that you know is he is he training guys back home or is he now full-time in florida too and so he's full-time in florida Jak wygląda scena z powrotem, w sensie walczących? Czy trenuje go w domu, czy jest teraz pełnym czasem w Floridzie?

Jest pełnym czasem w Floridzie. Nie jest już trenerem. To wszystko? Zdjęte. Tak. Ale ma tutaj firmę, która pracuje z artystami, muzykami. company you know okay works a lot of with with artists with musicians musicians yeah how is the mma scene back home in poland are there people coming up you know people that we don't know that are going to be ufc stars do you do you keep tabs on it do you pay attention to in poland yes yes we have a lot of great fighters in poland And I hope soon they will be in UFC.

For example, Jakub Wikłacz, Robert Ruchawa. Right now they are in American Top Team. They train in American Top Team. And I hope I will see these guys in UFC soon. There's so many. JJ is... Managing, right? Yes, yes. She manages them? Yeah. Oh, wow.

There's so many personalities at American Top Team, like just a couple weeks ago you have Moicano and Armin and all these guys. Is it ever surreal to see all these big names or do you kind of just stick to one area and you don't really cross paths with them? My coach, Parumpa, he trained Moikano.

All of them, yeah. He trained Arman, so yeah. You see all of that. Yeah. That was crazy with Arman, having to withdraw. Yeah. And then Moikano steps in. What are the chances to coach by the same guy?

It's crazy. It's a crazy sport. Yeah. Do you watch? Some people don't like crazy sport yeah do you watch like some people don't like to watch do you watch the fights yes I watch the fights

and when my friends from American Top Team when they fight I watch the fights and when they fight I am so nervous oh really

oh my god I'm jumping on the bed I'm screaming we have we have a strawweight title fight this weekend. Yes. Who do you like in that?

I love this fight. I want to see this fight. But really, I don't know. I don't know. 50-50. 50-50? Really? You think Tatiana could beat her?

Yes. She's looking very good, Zhang Weili. But Tatiana, it almost feels like she's been destined to be a champion for so long. Yes. Just injuries and things like that. So you think she has a good chance? Of course. Yeah.

You know, this is MMA. Everything can happen. Do you like watching the women's fights more than the men's fights? Yeah. Who's your favorite to watch now? Kto jest Twoim ulubionym zawodnikiem? Moim ulubionym zawodnikiem jest Valentina Szewczenko. Uwielbiam jej zawody. Ale też lubię Aleksa Grasso. W UFC jest wiele świetnych zawodników. Uwielbiam oglądać takoty. In UFC there is a lot of great fighters. I love to watch Dakota fights.

Yes, so these are all flyweights by the way. You don't like to watch the strawweights? No, I like to watch strawweights. Whaley is amazing. Sure, sure. Valentina against Mano Fioró. That's a good fight. Yeah. And Valentina against Dakota. Yes, yes. Who do you think would win in that one? Oh, my God. Tough one, right?

Right now, I am with Dakota. You have to, yes. Because she's my teammate. We train together. It's a trick question. Yeah. Yeah. She's unbelievable. I think that she could be one of the faces of...

And you know what? I had my first fight in UFC and on this card, Valentina has... Oh, that's right. Her first fight too. By the way, that card, I think is one of the all-time best cards.

It was UFC Fox in Orlando. Yes. Your first fight, Valentina's first fight. Usman Leon Edwards was on the prelim Orlando. Yes. Your first fight, Valentina's first fight, Usman Leon Edwards was on the prelims. Yeah. The,

the, Michael Johnson against Nate Diaz was on there. And that's when Nate Diaz went on the microphone and he called out Conor McGregor,

right? Donald Cerrone in the main event against RDA. That was an unbelievable card for free on Fox. Yeah. Feels like yesterday.

Yeah. It was my first fight in UFC. Yeah. And you weren't nervous for that one? No. Wow. I was very excited, you know. Right. Because I, I, I trained so hard for this. I worked so hard for this to be, be there. Right. What a life. Yeah. You're lucky from someone who was, what was the name? what's the name of your town that you grew up in Łódź W that's

no L-O-D-Z yeah that's pronounced Łódź yes wow the L is a W yes wow

are you close with Jan Bochowicz yeah yeah oh that's like Bochowicz Bochowicz he had a great tweet last week

did you see his tweet about Bryce Mitchell yes what do see his tweet about Bryce Mitchell yes what do you think of this Bryce Mitchell he's stupid you know he's stupid this is too much for me I don't know why someone

can say that Hitler was a nice guy Hitler wasn't a nice guy. No. He was the worst guy in the world, you know? Maybe the worst human being ever. Yes, yes. Evil. Yes, very evil.

Yes. And he says he'd like to go fishing with him. Yeah. It's... Stupid. He's very stupid. And then he posted an apology after. Did you see his apology?

No, no. It was nothing. If I offended you, I didn't mean to offend you, this and that. But we know how he feels. We know how he believes. Or what he believes. I thought Jan's tweets were very good. Yeah.

It would be... It's disappointing to see this stuff. And to, as an MMA fan, to hear this type of stuff. I żeby, jako fan MMA, słyszeć takie rzeczy. Nie wiem, ten chłopiec nie wie historii. Nie wiem, co jest z nim nie tak. Czy on jest głupi, czy nie wie, co mówi? Nie wiem. Czy kiedyś wizytowałaś w polsko-polskich zespołach? Tak.

Auschwitz? Tak, tak. Byłaś tam? Byłam tam. O mój Boże, zawsze się krzyczę. Yes. Yeah, Auschwitz. Yes, yes. You've been to it? I was there. I was there. Oh, my God. I cry all the time. I cry.

This place is... Hell. Yeah, it's hell. I went there when I was in 11th grade. When I was 17, I went there. Auschwitz, Birkenau, Dachau. Awful, the stuff that you see. And now you have people saying that it didn't happen.

It's crazy. They say it with conviction. It's not true that it's made up. A lot of people died there. Millions. Millions, yeah. And this guy says he wants to go fishing with them. Do you think there should be a punishment for him?

Yeah. Yeah. I think so too. Yeah. Something. I don't know what it is. Not for me to say or you to say, but I don't think seeing him fight is a good enough punishment.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Because it offends a lot of people. Not just, I'm Jewish. Not just Jewish people. Polish people, Europeans. He didn't just kill Jewish people, you know? Yeah.

It's awful. But I liked what Jan said. Jan's a good guy. Yeah, he's a great guy. He's very famous over there. Yes, yes. You know, he was a UFC champion, so he's very famous in Poland. Did you ever try his hamburger?

No, because I don't eat meat. Oh, that's right. You had like a thyroid problem, right? Yes. As a kid? And so you've been a vegan. Yes, right now I'm not vegan. I eat fish sometimes.

But when I was on vegan diet, I think it was the best diet for me. Wow. But I like eggs. I like fish. But I don't eat meat. When did you have that issue? My problems with thyroid start before my fight with Jessica Andras. Oh, wow.

Okay, so you were already an adult. Yeah. Oh, wow. But maybe, you know, I had it before, but I didn't know it. Okay. And so, like, what would happen? You would get sick? I was tired all the time.

I didn't have power to do training, you know. All the time I was tired, and I was very very sleepy and my weight was very high. I was on the diet, but my weight was very, very high. And I checked my hormones, everything. And the doctor told me you have hyperthyroidism and Hashimoto. Yes, yes, yes. And so do you have to take medicine? Yes, yes.

Wow. I take medicine every day. Still? Yes. Even when you're in fight camp? Yes. And does so do you have to take medicine? Yes, yes. Wow. I take medicine every day. Still? Yes. Even when you're in fight camp? Yes. And does it make it harder to cut weight? Yes and no.

I don't think about it. Okay. I just do my job. You just do it, yeah. Okay. So does it make it... But maybe it's a little bit harder, but I don't want to think about this i just focus on my on my on my job so as long as you take the medicine

there's no like uh and and follow the diet there's no side effects there's no issues that you deal with but meat you can have chicken beef anything like that uh you know, I stopped eating the meat when I was 15 years old. Oh, wow. Because I watched a documentary program about slashers. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and I stopped eating meat.

Gross. Wow, since you were 13. Yeah. Very disciplined. Yeah. Yeah. Impressive. Also, by the way,

speaking of American Top Team, I saw you and Paige Van Zandt. You do a collab. Yeah. How did that go? It was destiny. Destiny for you guys. Yeah, but, you know, Paige, she's amazing, amazing person.

I like her very much. And I think this photo shoot was very beautiful. Yes. Was your family, were they happy with it? Yeah. and I think this photo shoot was very beautiful. Yes. Was your family, were they happy with it? Yeah. No problem. She talks about how she makes more money from OnlyFans than she did as a fighter.

That's crazy. Yes. She makes a lot of money on OnlyFans. It's crazy. When she was in the UFC, she was saying that she was making more and then now

post I think it's changed her life yeah this is her full time job well she doesn't even need to fight

I don't even know why she fights she like it yeah she like it you know that's a good point but you don't get

punched in the face yeah but that's good coming together collabo as they say. Collaboration. Yeah. So when's the next time we'll see you in there?

Where? Not with... No, fighting. I don't know. Maybe May, June. Nothing planned just yet? I don't have a fight. So I'm waiting.

But I think May, June. You have a preference who you fight? Nie mam wybrania, więc czekam. Ale myślę, że maja, czerwono. Masz wybranie, kto się wybrze? Nie. Nie masz uwagi? Nie mam uwagi. Chcesz wybrania? Nie mam uwagi. Miech Maynard wie, co robi. Jest najlepszym w swoim pracy. Po prostu pozwól mu zrobić swoje rzeczy, wybraniesz. Ale musisz wybrania w arenie z fanami, job. So, yeah. Just let him do his thing. You'll fight. But you need to be fighting in an arena with fans, yes? Yes, yes.

Not Apex. I like fighting in Apex. I love fight in big arena. But in Apex, everything is like on training, you know? Right. You need the energy. Yeah. The walkout, the whole thing.

It's better. Well, this was great. Thank you so much for coming in. Thank you. I appreciate it. You did well with the English. You know, I learn English two times a week. I do Duolingo, but still, it's not good.

It's not good. But I don't give up. I don't give up. You've come a long way. I think when you came to the UFC, did you speak English at all? Yes. No, dziękuję. Tak, to było to. Interwjuje były bardzo krótkie.

Więc wyszłaś dłuższe, 10 lat. Mam nadzieję, że wyszłaś jeszcze 10 lat w UFC. Mam nadzieję, że tak. Dlaczego nie? Wszyscy przeżyli przeszkody i możesz to zrobić. Dziękuję za wejście, podziękuję. Dziękuję za zaproszenie. Jak to powiedzieć? Dziękuję. Dziękuję. Yes, that's right. That's right. You know how I remember that?

Borat used to say dziękuję, even though he was Kazakh, he used to say dziękuję. You know, Borat? Yes, yes. You say Polish words. Yeah, I don't know why. I don't know why either. Dziękuję. Thank you so much. Good luck to you. Appreciate you coming in. And we're going to take a small break here. Say goodbye to Carolina. We'll be back with Joe Hendry in studio. Here's my conversation with Alex Pereira from last week. Don't go anywhere. Okay, that was my lovely conversation with Alex Pereira.

Shout out to the great Plinio Cruz, his coach, who does a tremendous job of interpreting. Sometimes Alex gives you a long answer. I'm like, how's Plinio going to remember this? I mean, he is a coach. He doesn't, you know, he doesn't do this for a living, but he does a great job. And it's always a pleasure. It's always a great honor to have Plinio and Alex in studio. Great to have Karolina Kovacevic all these years I was at that show. UFC on Fox, golly, What was it? Eight or something like that? No. Maybe 15?

I think it was 15. Let me see if I get this right. UFC. No, I think because I'm thinking December. No, that was Machida Rockhold here in New Jersey. What was the one in Orlando? Let's see. No, Verdun Brown, Emmitt Stevens,

not the one that I want. You know which one I'm talking about? RDA Cerrone. 17. UFC and Fox, 17. So close. He has 2015. December was a week after.

It was a week after the Conor Aldo fight at the Amway Center in Orlando. So great stuff there. Appreciate her coming in. And she's a legend of the game. Fought for the belt at UFC 205, the strawweight title against fellow Polish fighter Ioana Janjacek. She has had a great career and incredible to lose five in a row and then win four in a row, currently on a two-fight losing streak. Let's see how she bounces back. In a matter of moments, my friends, it's a great, great honor

to be joined in studio by this gentleman, an absolute legend of the pro wrestling scene, an indie sensation, especially in the last year. He has just skyrocketed. He appeared as a member of the TNA roster on NXT, which is so weeks ago, won the TNA World Heavyweight Championship. And then on Saturday at the Royal Rumble in Indianapolis, he appeared as number 15, had a nice little run there. And it was surreal to see the TNA Heavyweight Champion walk out with that belt. Now they've got this arrangement and everyone loves him. He's got a great demeanor, a great personality, a great entrance song, a great gimmick, everything that you would want. And it's happening, as Wade Barrett said on Saturday, it took him 15 years to become an overnight sensation, which is just an amazing line and really does sum up his amazing career and his amazing story. And what's so much fun about this, I reached out to him because of what happened on Saturday, reached out to him,

never met before and said, hey, would you like to come on? Maybe on Zoom, we could do an interview. He said, why don't I come in studio? That's the kind of guy I like. That's the kind of guy I want to do business with. Say his name and he appears. I believe in Joe Hendry. How are you, my friend? What a great honor this is. Thank you so much. We can't get enough of the music here. We can't get enough of the song. We keep singing it. My kids keep singing. Look at this. There it is.

There's a good spot to put this. Oh, look at that. Let's see camera three right here. Look at that. Can we go to camera three? Look at that. Oh, that's beautiful. Beautiful. Joe, you're the man. Thank you're the man thank you for coming in thanks for having me i have to say i reached out to you yesterday and you said oh can i come in studio and i was like what are you going to be in new york you had no plan yes you are you had no plans of being in new york i did not i just think look there's certain interviews you got to do in person right and i'm very much

i was actually supposed to be on the jericho cruise i saw this on the internet yes what happened was i was supposed to go straight from the rumble to the cruise i go from the rumble back to the hotel pick up my things and it turns out if you fly into the dominican republic because that's where i was meeting them rather than sailing you need an extra visa thing and we didn't have that so we didn't know about it it's unfortunate we'll we'll try to do it again next year so i couldn't do that but we didn't know about it it's unfortunate we'll we'll try to do it again next year so i couldn't do that but i kind of have been responding to you know the random nature of life and then you dm'd me and i was like it's a sign let's go so here we are so what would you have done like where's home for you i'm still in scotland you're still in scotland

as a pro wrestler who's working in primarily in the united states north america let's just say that's got to be a pain in the butt. I mean, the travel's tough at times. But I mean, look, Ariel, if you look at my life in the last year, I have got nothing to complain about. Ah, what a story, man. Nothing to complain about. I love your story.

I freaking love everything about it. It's a beautiful thing. And congratulations on Saturday. Thank you, man. And what a time to speak to you for the first time after you just made your Royal Rumble debut as the TNA Heavyweight Champion. It was pretty wild. Do you feel like you're on cloud nine? It has not sunk in yet at all. time after you just made your Royal Rumble debut as the TNA heavyweight champion. It was pretty wild.

Do you feel like you're on cloud nine? It has not sunk in yet at all. I have not had the great thing about the last year for me is I've had no time to process all of the amazing things that have happened. I just won this amazing championship from Nick Nemeth, who's a legend in the business. And then I hadn't even had time to process that. And then we found out the Rumble's happening. It's like, all right, let's go. There's just been so many, all right, we've got to go.

Let's go. So many fun things have happened. And I'm sure it'll kind of hit me in a week or two. When did you get the call that you would be a part of the Rumble? So what's interesting is I've been kind of trying to speak this into existence for a long time. And I remember walking into, like, i've got like a training school back home i walked in after jordan grace had done uh her stint in the rumble representing tna wrestling and i'd said you know what i says mark my words i'll be in that next rumble really and yeah i've

just i you know even if it's a subconscious thing i just feel like when you put something out there to people you kind of start guiding your actions towards that. And it was a great honor to, now with the partnership between TNA and WWE, it's just, it's been amazing for, I think for both companies. And it was a huge honor to represent TNA on that stage. And can I just say, by the way,

this is big for me. I've been watching your content for a long time. Thank you. I appreciate it. Very cool to meet you. We'll get into your martial arts background as well. Sure. But, okay, so last year, Jordan Grace shows up. It's a huge deal. I believe it was Very cool to be here. We'll get into your martial arts background as well. But, okay, so last year Jordan Grace shows up.

It's a huge deal. I believe it was two years ago Mickey James showed up, right? Yeah. Last year's Rumble, where were you in life? Where were you watching that? That's quite interesting, actually. I was at a point where, so I was with TNA, but, you know, I didn't have much going on. At that point, I don't think I'd been on an actual pay-per-view for several months.

By April this year, I hadn't been on a TNA pay-per-view for about a year. And it's just crazy how in nine months, you can go from one place and you can just ascend to somewhere completely different if you just have faith in what you're doing. And also the other thing is I think you have to have a real commitment to getting better in all areas of the game because look if you break down what it takes to be a professional wrestler if you aim to get better in every one of those areas good things are going to happen so there's been a lot of fortune there's been a lot of you know a huge amount of support from the fans they've really put me in this spot but i had to do my

bit as well i had to just keep improving in all areas, you know. Point being, the idea of you being in the Rumble this time last year, kind of absurd, right? Totally absurd. Like the longest of long shots. Yeah, absolutely. But for some reason, I just thought it was going to happen. Were you watching live?

Yes, I think it would be. It would be in the middle of the night if you were in Scotland. Yeah. I mean, look, you know how it is for wrestling fans. You don't it is for wrestling fans. You don't really get casual wrestling fans. We're dedicated.

So in the UK, that's part of the culture is just staying up till 4 in the morning to watch the payday. That's why you guys are the best. MMA fans as well. I don't know how they are fans of the sport watching at 3, 4 a.m. I could barely stay up till 1 a.m. here on the East Coast. The call, when you got the call that you were going to be a part of it, what did that feel like? And could I ask who delivered the news to you?

So I heard some rumblings that there was some interest, but it was actually, so it was my boss, Ariel, who confirmed it to me. But I heard some rumblings and then when it was actually confirmed, it was like, oh, this is actually happening. So when you get that information, what you then need to think about is you're going,

okay, how can I maximize this opportunity? When you're the champion of a company, you're not just thinking about yourself. You're thinking about how can I elevate the company? How can I elevate the championship? You have those considerations. How can I make the company? How can I elevate the championship? You have to those considerations. How can I make the biggest impact? How can I, you know, do something that will open up doors for future business? And actually I just couldn't help myself. As soon as I won this championship, I did an interview the next day and just started calling out John Cena because, and the same way that I believe that I would be in the rumble, you know'm happy to say it I'd hand on heart believe that I will wrestle John Cena this year really a hundred percent there's not there's not any doubt and I had the opportunity to tell John Cena that as well backstage yeah yeah we had a long conversation and how was that it was awesome you know it was awesome I just yeah it was he he is he's the greatest you know and i'll i'll share some of it

i won't share it all but basically what he did say was that fortune favors the bold and what he made clear is that he if i want that match to happen it's on my shoulders i gotta make it happen i gotta generate the interest to make it happen. And it was almost like a challenge, you know? Um, and aside from that, he gave me some great advice and, you know, with all the chaos of the rumble going on, John Cena sat down with me and we had a long, meaningful conversation where he could have, you know, use that time to, um, think, think about what he was doing. He instead invested the time to talk to me. So I think he sees something in me, but I have to prove myself now.

I have to put myself in a position where me versus John Cena is one of the most compelling matchups in professional wrestling. I feel like you could do it. I feel like I can. Thank you. I believe, I really do.

I mean, you have willed so much into existence. I heard you tell a story a few months back of the first time you spoke to John as a youngster. Yeah. Your friend was at a signing. You couldn't make it. And he just handed him the phone. He spoke to you for like 10 minutes. Yeah.

In the midst of like a sea of people. Yeah. He held up the signing to have that conversation. Just to talk to some like teenage kid that he had never met before, knew nothing of. You weren't in the business, right? You were just a fan. Just a fan. And that's who John is. That's absurd that he would do that before, knew nothing of. You weren't in the business, right? You were just a fan. Just a fan. And that's who John is.

That's absurd that he would do that. It is, but. Most people would just be like, hey, thanks for the support. See you later. Yeah, but he asked me who my favorite wrestlers were. Like, you know, what did you think of the show? Like, you know, I remember it as if it were yesterday.

Was this the first time you spoke to him in person this past weekend? I met him super briefly when i was an extra in 2013 but this was the first sort of meaningful like long conversation that we had and it was you know it was awesome like there were there was quite a lot of people that i got to speak to and have great conversations with so and so i'm fascinated by that because here you are you're on fire you just became champ you just beat a well-known guy, Nick Nemeth, formerly known as, as, as Dolph Ziggler.

I just got a check, by the way. You always get the fear. There we go. The title's the right way. No, it's. I know you would tell me. No, listen, I would. You wouldn't leave me hanging.

I've been looking at it and it's fantastic. It's a beautiful belt. Sorry, carry on. Look how good you look back there. I know. I mean, look at this. You look fantastic. You got the blue and the white.

Shout out to Scotland. What is it like walking in there? I don't want to say enemy territory. It's all good vibes, but you're the but you're the new kid here, right? And there's giants of the game, right? A who's who. Some said the most stacked rumble ever. And you walk in there, guy who's been grinding, dreaming of this moment. Here you are coming out. We'll get to the walkout in a moment. What is that feeling like? Like the first few moments, this isn't your home, right? You're an outsider. Can you take us through that? What is that feeling like, like the first few moments? This isn't your home, right?

You're an outsider. Can you take us through that? Yeah. So the first thing was I was amazed that it didn't leak because I had, so what I did is weeks ago, I made the decision that I was just going to put myself in Indianapolis, like to make it easy. And I remember Chris Jericho asked me, he's like, do you want to do the cruise? And originally I was like, Chris, I'm sorry, this is going to sound crazy but i need to keep that royal rumble date free i know this is crazy but i just i think it's going to happen and he was like

all right man and then he said look maybe you could join the cruise later but we booked um a bunch of stuff in indianapolis so i was there so we had to leave a signing early for me to catch a flight and then we got to the venue. And when I walked in, there was a lot of familiar faces, like a lot of the Scottish wrestlers who had kind of came up through. It was great to see them. But I got to the back, and there was a moment where I just remember having a conversation with CM Punk and Cody Rhodes.

And I was just saying, if you guys were me, how would you approach this? And just getting great advice. And I have to tell you, I don't know if he'd want me to say this, but the Miz is, he is awesome, you know. And he, these guys are, they go out of their way to help you succeed, you know. And it was, and as many people have at TNA, there's, I've been very fortunate in the business that there's been a lot of people who have helped me get to where I'm getting to I've had a lot of great advice and I really do believe it takes an army of people to help someone like myself get better and get to this point but yeah it was an awesome experience I got great advice and I just I felt welcome and and I, I also felt this confidence that I thought,

this is a great opportunity for me to show that I can get a top level reaction in an arena with, you know, 70,000 people. So it was very reassuring when that did happen because you do have that thing where you wonder, you're like, well, how many people do know who I am? So you just don't know when you're about to walk in. Was there any part of you that was worried that when you get to the back that you would kind

of be shunned that no one would want to talk to you that they would think that you know they're above you or you're beneath them it's something like that I find that top top talents in the business the first time I got to work with top talents it was I got to work with um Drew McIntyre back home I worked with Kurt Angle when I was three years in the business. And my experience of working with them is the same experience I've had with working with top, top talents. And they're made guys. They're made talents. They're confident. They're comfortable in who they are. So they're going, you know, we need dance partners here. So they're trying to help elevate people. So I have to be honest, I've had nothing but good experiences really with top talents.

So maybe it's the guys who might be threatened by your presence, the lower guys, right? Hey, you said it, not me. I'm just saying. Of course. I mean, it's a kill or be killed world, right? It is. It was. So what I'm probably referring to is when i was coming

up through the ranks like when i kind of tna and wwe it's like it's awesome atmospheres you know i mean it was just like they're great locker rooms to be in um but on the way up you know when you're coming through the indies it's a shark tank yeah you know so actually if you can survive that it's um it can be in terms of getting along with everybody, it can be smooth sailing from there. I'd say that coming up through the Indies was a bit of a shark tank. I love the Triple H tweet because he doesn't have to do that, right? He doesn't have to put you over. You're not one of his guys, right? I know there's the relationship, but not only does he tweet about you, he uses the line too. Can you tell me about this how did this come about

i'll tell you how it came about i was getting ready it was just my um my music was about there to write we're counting you down oh my gosh triple h just just walked over to me put his arm around me and pointed at me was like oh we're doing the point we're doing the point legendary yeah so that that was awesome and again had a had a great conversation with Triple H and it's just, you know, it's an honor for me to represent TNA in that environment. And I just, you know, felt so welcomed. I felt TNA has been so welcomed. I think this partnership is just awesome. And yeah, I've got nothing but good things to say. When they announced the partnership just a few weeks ago, and obviously, like I said, Jordan shows up, Mickey, it seemed to be good relationships.

What did you think? Were you surprised that it was sort of cemented? Because let's be honest, historically, WWE isn't doing something like this. I mean, I remember I used to, this is how far back I go. I'm an old guy now. I mean, we're kind of around the same. I'm 42. You're, how old are you?

No, 30. You were going to say 40? No, no, no. Come on. I'm 36. 36. My apologies. I used to buy the TNA weekly Wednesday pay-per-views.

I think $9.99 from like Huntsville, Alabama and stuff like that. So I remember when it started with Jeff and his father, Jerry. The thought of a TNA belt being shown and being like promoted in a positive light on WWE television is absurd. And especially considering all that's happened with the company. And so when you saw this and obviously what happened in the summertime, what, what did you,

what were your expectations? Well, I think what's very exciting is when, when I went over to NXT, I had the opportunity to train at the performance center. I was, you know, training with,

uh, Terry Taylor every day. I was learning from Shawn Michaels every week. I had some amazing one-on-one conversations with Shawn that really expanded my mind with professional wrestling. I was fortunate enough to main event No Mercy as a TNA wrestler, which is I've got an N64 cartridge in my house of No Mercy.

You're just thinking, what's going on? But now that the partnership is solidified, I really think that opens the door cartridge in my house of no mercy you're just thinking you know what's going on um but now that the partnership is solidified i really think that opens the door for even more possibilities and you know i might even be as bold as to say what if we invited some people into tna wrestling you know i was in the rumble and you know a very organic moment that happened is a a slide in and i'm getting ready to do my thing and there's Sheamus standing in the corner and this is something that people have really kind of gravitated towards and genuinely in that moment I was like I don't know what to do I was like because I want to do all this stuff but

Sheamus is looking at me so do I oh there you go there's the picture I'm like do I attack him and then I'm like but then if I attack him I'm gonna have to keep going over and hit him so I thought you know what maybe he just wants to see what's happening. So I'll just let him observe. And the fans really kind of latched onto it. So I think actually, to be honest, I think the fans would also be interested in maybe even seeing Sheamus come over to TNA Wrestling and maybe challenging me for the TNA World Championship

or the Miz for that matter. I think that me and the Miz would have a fantastic program. And obviously the partnership being with NXT, you know, maybe Ethan Page comes over to TNA Wrestling and challenges me there. There's so many possibilities. I, and here's the cool thing about it. I know nothing.

I knew nothing. And I knew nothing until I found out about the Rumble. I'm just throwing some interest in things out there in the, you know, in the hope that they might happen. Sheamus was very complimentary of you on social media afterwards as well. And there's the tweet, I was enjoying Joe Hendry. They put up some stats and it was, you know, Penta had been in it for 42 minutes. And, you know, there was, you know, there'd been a few people like different stats.

And I was like, we need to get one for Seamus. So someone made a graphic of Seamus believing in Joe Hendry for 30 seconds. So, yeah, we got the graphic of that made. But I think, yeah, I think that would be it. I believe there it is. There you go. Yes. Most time believing.

People seem to be into that too. I think people are excited by the possibilities. But the fact that the partnership is now solidified, is it that outwith the question to think that there couldn't be someone to hold the nxt and tna championships at the same time for example you know that's just anything i think we've now found out anything is possible in the world of professional wrestling and by the way what exactly is the partnership to the best of your knowledge is it just sharing of talent is it more than that to be completely

truthful with you i don't know the inner details of it and i think it's that's that's the best way to do it because it's exciting because we will find out about these opportunities and people will just show up and it's exciting for us as the roster as well to see people who maybe weren't expecting show up in different places so behind the, we don't know what's going to happen next. So we're sharing a lot of the excitement with the fans. And we saw that, yes, the partnership is with TNA and NXT, but here I am, I was able to go out onto the rumble. So is it that outwith the question to think that maybe the TNA world champion

could show up on wrestlemania oh wow is that is that is this another thing you're trying to put out there is it that crazy i don't think so just i mean you're damn popular i mean maybe you know the reaction we got the rumble maybe who knows what about that reaction what what is going on in your mind holy shit man 70,000 people in indianapolis at this massive stadium are reacting to your song and then singing it and doing the clapping. Yeah.

For a guy who's been through the road, like the crazy ups and downs of the professional wrestling business and, and, and, and Wade Barrett had the all time best line, right? Overnight sensation in 15 years. It took him 15 years to become one. Um, I would just love to know, like in that moment, do you even remember what you were

thinking about? I remember being told beforehand, I worked very closely with Shane Helms, who was the Hurricane in this match and he had a lot of great advice for me and one of the pieces of advice was just take a moment

because this is special you take it in, feel the moment. It's also what Tommy Dreamer told me before I went out in NXT the first time as well. You must take a moment to just appreciate the magnitude of what's happening because it's such a rare opportunity to experience something like that.

So I walked out and like I say, you don't really know what the reaction is gonna be, but it was loud and I was like, oh my goodness. And I walked out and I could hear there was like a roar behind me. So I actually turned around and I saw there was a sign right there. And then there was another sign where they'd spelled out my name. And it was this, so one person's holding an H, one's holding the E and so on. And I was like, you know, I remember seeing the rock having those signs and I'm just going,

what is going on? is my life you know and it's just uh it's very difficult to put into words but it's it's uh yes i learned that working in an arena of that size is slightly different to working in smaller venues you have to adjust things a little bit and now i have a little bit of experience there i'd know how to do i'd know how to maybe improve on it next time you know when you say adjust what do you mean by that so for example um before i you know before i hit the standing ovation on the ms uh what i'll do is i'll do the we will rock you'll do stomp stomp clap and you'll do it i do it three times and then i go for the move but in an arena of size, it takes so long for the sound to travel. Maybe it's worth doing four times, maybe five times to get the whole arena with you.

So there's certain things you just maybe have to take a little more time with. Also, when, I mean, there's a photograph of Roman Reigns speeding me and you're just, someone tweeted and says, I can't believe this is a real photograph, you know,

but again, working with Roman, I had an... Yeah, there you go. I'll tell you. That is... Is that surreal? It was surreal. It was surreal. And I think, you know, I said in the promo, it's on WWE's YouTube, where I said, you know,

I don't think this is the last time that me and Roman will cross paths because you know, at the end of the day, he didn't pin me. He threw me over the top ropes. Now that is the MMA equivalent of losing one round in a five, five fight. So there's, there's unfinished business there, my friend, but yeah, working with Roman, I kind of got an appreciation for, you know, that top guy timing, you know, and just going like, ah, you know, so I had a couple of epiphanies when I was out there. It was a great, great learning experience. And what's amazing is that this partnership,

it is very helpful to gain that experience. The NXT talent are able to gain experience of working in our arenas. And, you know, I don't know if you've seen recently, but TNA is on such a hot streak right now. We are filling, like, these big arenas. You know, we had 4,000 people in for Genesis. We had 4,000 people in for Genesis. We had 4,000 people for Slammiversary in Montreal.

We had phenomenal numbers at Bound for Glory. And we've got some big, big shows coming up, some really ambitious shows coming up. I want to ask you about that in a moment, but I'm curious, were you nervous in there? You walk in there and there's legends of the game, some that you've never worked with, maybe not really had a conversation with, and there are 70,000 are you nervous are you are you

are you anxious are you hesitant what's going through your mind as you step through the ropes so in the so you mean before i go out or as i'm running to the ring yeah now you now you're in there okay uh so i walked out and the reaction's good and i'm like okay cool cool and then i'm more thinking about i'll be completely honest with you the main thing that's going through your head is you just don't want to do the the titus o'neill yeah that i'm sorry that is the main thing you're thinking i don't want to fall down yeah and so once you've slid in it's kind of you get because i remember people saying hey when you and watch, there's a couple of steps at the start of the ramp, and then there's a little decline at the bottom.

So I was kind of thinking about that because, I mean, can you imagine? No, no, no. So once you've slid in, you're like, okay. And the main thing was as well, I was like, I've never, you sometimes overthink things. So I'm almost glad that this year has been such a roller coaster. I haven't had time to think about it because if I did have three weeks to know about the rumble I might have overthought it but

One thing that I did get in my head because you sometimes start to think of these self-sabotaging thoughts was I was like, oh man Don't fall over on the nip up. Don't fall over on the nip up And the moment I hit the nip up and I was fine and the crowd start coming up. I was like, I'm having fun I'm good. I'm good. That was the one bit where it's like don't don't fall over on the nip up and I was fine and the crowd started coming up, I was like, right, I'm having fun now. I'm good. I'm good. That was the one bit where it's like, don't fall over on the nip up. We didn't. So we're good. You were flowing out there. Thank you.

It was seamless. It was a lot of fun. But I will be honest, though. It's hard to process because it's just, it's unprecedented. You know, it's your it's unprecedented you know it's it's unprecedented like you say to see a picture of me standing next to Triple H where he's pointing at me waiting the TNA World Championship and then we go out in front of 70,000 people that is an unprecedented situation um for you know with this partnership and I will I say that but we have to give Jordan Grace credit and and Mickey as well

because they really kicked down the door and And without them kind of doing that, I really feel them doing that is what's led me here. What happens when you get to the back? Anyone give you any words of wisdom? So the first thing that happens is when you leave the ringside area, there's like a little golf cart that picks you up. So you're kind of, you know, I'm sitting there. I've just been speared by roman reigns um you know um you know we'd love to have have won and and gone on to

to wrestlemania but you know there was a moment where i was sitting on the car and and the fans were just saying you know we believe we believe and you're going whoa like this is this is pretty surreal you know so you get to the back and um i gotta add another conversation with john cena um when he got back as well and um yeah it was just it's hard to say it's hard to put it into words to be honest it was just wow that's it's a chapter in my career that was just a wonderful surprise. I would imagine at one point, probably unfathomable, right? Like everyone wants to get to WWE, but was there ever a point where you thought maybe this dream isn't going to work out for me?

Never. Never. So I never thought about quitting. I had a moment where there was a show in Newcastle, England, a promotion called North Wrestling, and there was maybe 200 people there. And I did an entrance video on Scotty 2 Hottie where I do these things where I do these custom music videos where I make fun of my opponents. I did one for Scotty 2 Hottie and the place just erupted and it was 200 people there. And at that time I didn't have a deal. And I said to myself I was

like you know what I am a pro wrestler and the this particular brand of comedy that I'm doing nobody's doing it like this this is what I bring to the table whether it's in front of 50 people 200 2,000 20,000 or beyond I'm committed and I'll give it my best and my thinking switched from I want to win this title I want to work for this promotion I want I want I want I'll give it my best. And my thinking switched from, I want to win this title. I want to work for this promotion. I want, I want, I want, I want. And it changed to, what's the best way that I can entertain the audience? What's the biggest reaction we get? What's the biggest laugh?

Instead of focusing on, I want, it's what can you give to the audience? How can I give more of myself to get better? As soon as I had that shift, I almost immediately got signed to TNA. Oh, it was like a couple of weeks later, I got signed to TNA and it just, something changed in me. So I never thought I have to do this. I have to do that. I just had gratitude for, for the entire journey. And, you know, I just, I feel on top of the world. It's been unbelievable. And I've had amazing colleagues. We've got amazing management.

I'm very, very grateful. Your background, you were into music and whatnot, right? But also, as I said, martial arts. Wrestling, judo? Yeah. What are the credentials? What's the resume here? Because you're legit.

So I did judo from the age of, I think, like six to 13. Kind of stepped away from it. Did some acting classes. Did music. I came back to judo when I was about 19, 20. And I got my black belt in judo. And that was the first time I'd ever finished anything in my life. I remember my dad saying to me, you know, one day you could get your black belt. And I honestly, I looked at my dad and I says, that's

not the black, having a black belt isn't for people like me, dad. Like, and it kind of broke my dad's heart, me saying that, because it's just, I just didn't see myself as someone who had the potential to do that. So when I actually did get my black belt and I finally finished something, I was like, oh, I just had this moment where I was like, if I put in the work, this, you can achieve things, and, you know, these things pay off, and so, you know, I did music for a long time, I kind of finished my degree, and then I decided it was 2012 going into 2013, I decided, as of tomorrow, you are a pro wrestler, that's who you are, and I just, I really believed that I had what it took to be a world champion. I saw myself as a world champion the first day I stepped into a training school.

And I've been speaking things into existence ever since I started. I remember on my second week, I says, oh, when do you usually do WWE tryouts? And my coach was like, well, November. And I went, cool, I'll be on that one. And I was in my in my first year the first match I had outside of my training school was in it was closed doors but it was in a WWE ring really yeah in the in the Manchester arena but what I did is in 2014 so that was when CM Punk had signed to the UFC. That kind of got me thinking that I was like, wow, he's just signed this deal with the UFC. The UFC is like a legit competitor in the sports entertainment space.

And I thought, man, I should get back into it. And so I decided to pursue amateur wrestling at the age of 26. And it took me a good few attempts, but I very closely followed Chael Sonnen's advice, which was the higher the weight classes you go, the lower the skill level is. So what I did is I went as heavy as possible and there were far fewer competitors and the skill level was lower. Like there were guys in lower weight classes who would beat me all the time, but I just got so heavy that the talent pool wasn't as big. And I thought, you you know there's actually only four or five guys in the uk i really need to worry about here and i just spent three years figuring out how to beat them and then in 2017 i won my first british championship in amateur

wrestling after everybody telling me you can't start a sport at 26 and but in 2017 i won the the freestyle and british Championship at 97 kilos. I represented Scotland at the Commonwealth Games in 2018. And Scotland was drawn against Australia. And Robert Whittaker had declared that he was going to enter the Commonwealth Games for wrestling at 97 kilograms. And I'm thinking, oh, my God. Scotland's drawn against Australia. I'm going going i could face

the ufc champion as a pro can you imagine a pro wrestler facing robert worker so i dm'd chill son and i says chill you got it you got i gotta get your advice let's be honest probably gonna kick my ass but should i should i call him out anyway and he says absolutely you call him out and chill wrote my promo come on he wrote my promo i went out and i said it on the bbc um and what happened was i think dana white had said that um he'd advise him not to do it or if he got injured at the calm mouth they might have to take the title off and so he ended up not doing it but from the pro wrestling perspective i was like hey looks like you know hey robert didn't want to face the pro wrestler you know so that was my uh adventure into amateur wrestling and after the commonwealth games which unfortunately i did not medal there but i did give it my very

best and in in life as long as i give it my best like i'm completely happy with that and i really left it all out there it was a long hard fought match I gave it every ounce of energy that I had and I couldn't get the job done but I gave it my best I came back to the UK and I won my second British championship this time in Greco and I decided that would be my last match okay then I would focus purely on professional wrestling did you ever consider MMA yes absolutely that's. Like I saw CM Punk do it. Yeah. And I thought,

actually, if I just go down this amateur wrestling path, I actually met with, um, there was, there was an MMA company, um, in Ireland.

I forget the name. Um, it wasn't Cage Warriors. It was perhaps Bama. It might be. Bama, yeah. I think I met with Bama to discuss potentially having an MMA fight.

I was very open to it at one point. But pro wrestling just started to pay off. And as I got a little bit older, I just felt the door was closed. It just felt right to move on. I thought the last thing I did in amateur wrestling was to win a British title. And I thought, you know what? That's a good time to hang up the boots and focus on pro wrestling. Cause I only, I only did it to, to further my pro wrestling career. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. Cause I just, honestly, I wasn't

happy with how I was being booked or used at the time. And I just thought I need to add legitimacy to what I'm doing. So that was like my kind of primary thought. A member of my team, Drake told me today, would you like do MMA videos on YouTube for what culture? Yeah. I mean, I was the worst host of all time. Okay. I'm not going to brag about that, but I was actually a host at what culture?

You were a member of the MMA media core? Believe it or not, I asked Dan Henderson his last ever question. Come on. In the sort of press area where was this that was in was it was in the uk it was in england and like you would go to fights as a credentialed media member i just i did it once and then i was like this isn't for me but i did it once wow there's a lot of stuff like that i've just done once and gone yeah this isn't the way but that was fun

so so did you watch mma were you a big fan yeah yeah okay yes huge huge fan and have you kept uh in touch with chael um i i've spoken with chill like a couple of times on dm i i used to speak to to him more but i you know i haven't spoken to him in recent years actually but it would be it would be very cool to i i wonder if he knows that the guy that reached out to him like do you think he knows who you are now i don't know if he's put two and two together but i mean i think chill's enough of a fan that he probably watched the rumble that is a good point that is yeah actually he was tweeting about it so yeah i just wonder if he remembers that it's he might not so chill if you're watching yes there you go he'll be on the show tomorrow thank you for for all the advice it's probably as part of what got me here a lot of people have stories like this

obon elliott who's in the ufc who's big wrestling fan, has stories of just DMing Chael, asking for advice. And everyone says he just writes back and couldn't be nicer. So I'm glad to hear that you had the same experience. Those videos back in the day, like for Insane Championship Wrestling, right? Like those music videos that you did, incredible stuff. Thank you. What's interesting about though is like i say you're like a cult like favorite because i feel like fans are so passionate about you and your journey you used the word comedy before and as you know sometimes the comedic acts don't become like the top guy right it's a tricky balance how do you balance that because there is there is still comedy to your to your gimmick now right right? The turn, the face.

But you also want to be taken seriously as the top guy. So how do you balance that? Well, I think that was part of the motivation with doing amateur wrestling. I mean, Kurt Angle is the classic example. Kurt Angle is one of my favorites of all time. Another just amazing guy, unbelievable to work with. He could be as silly as he wanted to be and still be a huge legitimate threat because of his credentials. And obviously like Kurt's

achievements are on a completely different level planet to anybody else. But even on a smaller scale, I thought if I legitimize myself, I can be comedic, you know? Um, but also I just, I think that my view of professional wrestling is that the people who are most successful in professional wrestling are the ones who are just authentically themselves. If you think about a CM Punk, for example, he is always authentically himself. John Cena is always authentically himself. The top, top talents are authentically themselves. And I think the more that you are true to your own personality and turn the volume up on it whether you're you might be comedic you might not be to me it's i'm just being me and an amplified version of me and i feel like the fans are very much in

on this journey they're in it with me because i just felt honestly i was i was happy even just doing it i got to a point where i was happy doing it in front of 100 or a couple hundred people. I was completely happy doing it. And it was just, I was free. I was expressing myself. And the more that I just let all the pressure go and I could just be myself and have fun with the audience, it just organically grew from there.

So to me, there are moments where I'm comedic. There are moments where we're more serious. But I'm just doing what feels right in the moment. And that seems to be what translates. So what's the turning point? How do you make sense of all of this? Like, again, you're in the business for over 10 years, right? Yeah, 12 years, yeah.

Right? And then to get to this point, in your opinion, what changed? So around the last WrestleMania, fans started to speculate and say, oh, it'd be cool if Joe Henry showed up. And you know, sometimes when people speculate, that's when rumors start. So there was a point where I saw on TikTok, people were making videos of what would happen if I appeared at WrestleMania. I was like, oh, this is pretty cool. But it got to the point where anyone who made a TikTok reel with my song was getting three to 400,000 hits. And I thought, wow, this is, this is something's going on here.

And I thought maybe it's time to actually release this as a song. And I tell people this, I was in my house and it's just funny how, you know, there's these parallel universes where I was like, man, I'm tired. I need to go to the gym, but I also need to upload this song. And I was like, am I going to go to the gym or upload this damn song? And I was like, I'll upload this song. And I remember being mad that I didn't get to go to the gym that night. I uploaded the song for April 29th because I didn't know how music releases worked anymore. So I didn't know that singles are released on the schedule, I think is Friday to Thursday. Okay. I just thought, well, Monday is the start of the week. So I scheduled this that singles are released on it's the schedule i think is friday to thursday okay i just thought well monday is the start of the week so i scheduled this song to be released on a monday

because it was the first day of the week not knowing that's halfway through the release schedule which gives you half the time to build up sales but it without realizing it worked on my behalf so i've scheduled it in for april 29th i think well i better start promoting this thing i guess so i started doing interviews my brother started making memes of like, you know, putting me into famous films and TV shows. Like we did one where, you know, I won't give it away, but the last moment of the Sopranos cuts to my music video, just things like that. We built up the support and the song- Your brother who had just quit his job at McDonald's. Yeah. But to be clear, he was doing little bits and bobs for me before that.

Yeah. But it just got to a point where he was like, you know what? I want to commit. And so he left his job. He's full time on the team. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, all right, let's go. And actually, to be honest with you, he's been a huge part of this.

And it's been awesome to be able to do that with my brother. It's a rare, awesome thing to work with your family like that, but very grateful for it. But the song releases on the Monday, and because there was no release competition on the Monday, because everyone else released on the Thursday, my song immediately goes to 20 on iTunes in the UK. I tweet it, and then everyone pushed it up and up and up,

and it was one in the UK on iTunes. It was six in the US. It was three in Ireland. It's going crazy. And then it went so crazy, it actually got in the uk on itunes it was six in the us it was three in ireland it's going crazy and then it went so crazy it actually got into the legitimate charts on the same week i did this concert in the style of you know like the one the rock did in yeah right i remember um tna management came to me and said we want you to do this concert and i was like guys the rock just did one the rock just did one and he's the rock so how can i do something to make it totally different and I was like, guys, The Rock just did one. The Rock just did one and he's The Rock.

So how can I do something to make it totally different? And they would have said, look, I remember they said to me, we're not gonna make you do it. If you're saying you don't wanna do it, then you don't have to do it, but we think that you can. And I was like, all right.

So we kind of went back and forth and I remember we ended up coming up with this idea that we would do a Creed song. And instead of, can you take me higher? We'd say, can you please get fired to AJ Francis? And there was like, right, that's funny enough that it can be different enough that we can do it. So we did this concert and it just, it went so well. We were in this iconic music venue in Vegas. So it was like like it just looked

great and the audience were laughing along so it was like we had the perfect segment on at the same time as this song released in its charting and those two things together collided and that's when it really started to take off and that yes so that that april was when it really started to explode. And then we started TNA. TNA was on, we were on an upswing in TNA anyway. Even that January when we were in Vegas, it was absolutely rocking. So TNA is on an ascension as well. And here I'm coming up at the same time.

And so it's just all these factors together. Then we do the crossover into NXT. It builds up even more and the the debut video that i had in nxt um i believe was wwe's most watched clip on on x last year which is unfathomable but my view is the reason it was the most watched clip is because when i walk out usually in tna i'll just walk. Whereas in NXT, they'll load me into the entrance and I'll do the spin round. So I had more time that I didn't know what to do with myself. So I walk out and I just start looking around and I just have this feeling of like, whoa, this is cool.

They know who I am. And I think it's that organic reaction. That's why the clip did well. So now I've learned, again, authentically be yourself, try and build in these organic moments to just take it in for a second, you know? The, the, the song you, you wrote it, it's, it's your voice, right? Yeah. You, you, how do you come up with that? Like, how do you come up?

Because, and I've heard you talk about like to the beats and everything, like, you know what people react to, but the, the genesis of that song, pardon the pun you went into, how does it all come about? And how old is the song? The song's five years old. Okay.

I actually had it in Ring of Honor. And I remember not being particularly over in Ring of Honor, but the song was super over. So that song, you know, no matter what we were doing, they always found a spot for me to be on the card because they wanted to play the song. So it really did kind of, it helped me learn and get better. And, you know, so the song was always popular, but the, it was when I got to TNA, that's where we started to fully develop the character and the turn and the look and just bring in all those little elements. And, you know, they say the difference between a good idea and a great idea is the details.

So if you look at the Ring of Honor video that I had and the TNA entrance that I've got, they're just the exact same song. There's no audible difference. But the video, it's like, wow, that's me, you know? But coming up with the song, I decided that I wanted something with more energy than I had before.

And I think my favorite theme is The Rock's, his 2003 Hollywood rock theme. That's my favorite theme. But I also wanted something upbeat because I was like, I want the audience to interact. And I was thinking, okay, how can they interact when they're standing together? And I was like, well, they can clap,

they can wave their hands. I was thinking of all the ways that the audience can interact when they're either together. And I was like, well, they can clap. They can wave their hands. I was thinking of all the ways that the audience can interact when they're either seated or standing. And so I was like, right, I'll have a section where I tell the, and you have to, I just tell the audience what to do. So, and I show them in the video,

you have to clap. So show and tell what I want them to do. And then I decided that, well, pop music, for me, the sweet spot is 120 beats per minute you'll find that is a common thread throughout a lot of big pop songs Queen talked about when they were doing we will rock you they found what they felt was the perfect BPM to get people to do the stomp stomp clap so the first part of my song is very pop

and then the latter part where it breaks down is very reminiscent of the rocks Hollywood theme and it's to the BPM that Queen were talking about. Crazy. So I put that together. And yeah, literally we recorded it at my friend Neil's house. And we just got it done fairly fast. I took two and a half weeks to write it. But we actually, I think we might have recorded it.

It might have been one day, actually, that we recorded the whole thing. It might have been one day. The video as well? No no the video we did separately the video uh some of it is done in my in my house just to a green screen and the rest of it was again me and my brother just going out in the camera and just going let's do it is that in scotland when you're on the rock and all that yeah we always go to a place called arthur's seat in edinburgh which is a beautiful um landscape in edinburgh and and how do you come up with the turn because the turn really like it ties it all the turn is just incredible I get thank you um it's

you know it's very hard to do it's very you know it's uh it's in the ring of honor one it's this you know what I mean so but pro wrestling is overt it's big It's large in the life. So it was just a case of changing this and having the confidence to do the full spin around. I was very into British comedy, like The Office and Peep Show. So I was very into subtle comedy, but I learned how to have some of those British humor sensibilities,

but make them bigger. So I think it was something that i might think is funny because i know all the context is a very sort of british humor thing whereas i think it was learning that in wrestling you do have to be larger than life and overt you know so i think that was the approach with when i by the time i got to tna i realized that comedy has to be done in a slightly different way for professional wrestling. By the way, we like to joke on the show that I don't really watch anything other than sports, combat sports, basketball, football. The Peep Show might be my favorite. No way.

I adore Peep Show. How good is Peep Show? It is, you know, there was a rumor at one point that they were going to make an American version of it and they never did it. This is years ago. That show is brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. One of my favorite lines ever in all of TV history is they're on a boat and he says, I forget their names, Jazz and- Mark. Mark.

Jazz and Mark. And I think it's Mark who says that he was in a band and the name of the band was Various Artists so that it would go to the top of people's iPods because Yeah. Because, you know, like when you had an iPod and it would be various artists. And I just thought that was brilliant. Yeah. And I still make that joke till this day. But if anyone is out there hasn't seen Peep Show,

it's one of the most brilliant comedies, brilliant series that I've ever seen. It is, yeah. Genuinely loved it. I love Peep Show. And I think the thing about British humor is we like to be self-depreciating. Yes, yes.

And Peep Show is just, you know, it's no one in Peep Show comes out of it looking good. It's just like a bunch of terrible people. And it's very grim, but it's very funny. I love that. I love that. It's an inspiration. The move, another turning point, the billboard in Glasgow, Clash at the Castle. Like, again, and i don't want you to

repeat all the stories but i i like to do my research but i i what i gather is you decide let's let's put the face on the billboard outside the arena here's here's a fans video of it this for those that don't know this is outside the arena and there he is just with that that smile and and and when you reach out to get the space they say okay do you want a qr code do you want a url you just want your face yep brilliant so you just want your face but we can put i was like nope just just want the face that was one of the most difficult decisions i've ever had to make in professional wrestling why Why is that? Because it's a fine line, isn't it?

You're thinking, you know, this is a WWE event. How is it going to be perceived, me just putting my face on the billboard? Politically, you don't want to piss anyone off. It's tough. Yeah. It's tough. But then there's that thing. It's like maybe you've got to ruffle some feathers. But I think what I've had to do is learn where the line is and sometimes you

go a little bit over the line you know i've had a few moments where i've gone oh maybe that was a tactical error but you have to be willing to make a few tactical errors i'll give an example so i remember a fan uh tweeted so i was there was a particular month but i was getting a lot of hate online and why uh just because when anyone gets popular in wrestling yeah there's a backlash yeah yeah so i the strategy i'd had up until this point was just throwing you can throw mud at the wall and see what sticks you can just keep going keep going keep going and oh that works once you've got to a certain point you have to be more tactical so for example before i ever appeared in wwe before you know they thought it would be possible for like a tna wrestle to to appear on wwe in that way um i could just say

whatever i wanted and you know maybe something would stick and the fans would get behind it once i had appeared on wwe and it's like well now the expectation might be here because this has already happened so i now need to be more careful with what i say so there's a point where I remember someone said something and I was just being cheeky about the rumble about, oh yeah, Joe Hendry's falling off. And I remember going, well, let's see how well this statement holds up in about four months. And obviously being around rumble time, I thought it was a cheeky comment to make. This tweet goes nuclear. Oh no. Nuclear. And I remember thinking this was a tactical error. Really? And I remember genuinely thinking

if this costs me the opportunity, I just have to accept it. I have to accept that and I have to take responsibility for that. Wow. Were you crushed? No, because I accept that, again,

if you're going to be putting your face on billboards and have bold actions like that, sometimes you are going to get it wrong or maybe go too far. But again, as John Cena said to me, fortune favors the bold. So I would rather learn that way than not try. Because to be quite frank with you, I have to be bold. Because specifically with John Cena, this is his last year.

If I'm not bold, I'm not getting anywhere near that match. So I have to be bold. Maybe I will make mistakes, but I have to do what I have to do to make sure I get that match. So I'll make mistakes along the way. But again, it's with the best of intentions. It's entertaining for the fans. This is what this game is.

It's fun to speculate in pro wrestling about what could happen. And again, to come back around to that, it's my job to make a match with john cena one of the more compelling matchups that are on the table like you know for example the other day he just uh he's he announced that he wanted to enter the elimination chamber um and you know what i really he he to me he's the greatest of all time he is the greatest of all time because he led the business for such a long period of time he did such tremendous things leading the business and I

I hope that he is successful but I don't know what John's path is going to be but I would, can you imagine if he was to challenge for the TNA World Championship in TNA? I mean, we have a huge show in July here in New York for Slammiversary.

Can you imagine? It would be just like when he went into ECW to face Rob Van Dam. Is that at Hammerstein also? It's, let me get this. Same venue? It's not Hammerstein. Okay, okay, okay. That would be incredible. But I like everything that you're saying.

I thought you were going to take me down a different path that you would face him. See, here's what I think is very interesting about what you're doing, if I can give you this compliment. You have a tricky dance that you have to play here. You're the TNA heavyweight champion. You don't want to...

I get it. I understand it. And I hope you're okay with me calling it out. Go for it. You don't want to, I get it. I understand it. And I hope you're okay with me calling it out. Go for it. You don't, WWE is WWE. No, if everyone at TNA is honest with themselves, they know that this is, this is the UFC. This is the, the, the biggest promotion in the history of pro wrestling. You seem very thankful and grateful for this opportunity, but you're also grateful for

that opportunity, but you don't want to see, seem overly grateful for this opportunity, but you're also grateful for that opportunity, but you don't want to see, seem overly grateful for that opportunity because you don't want to be disrespectful for your, your current workplace, right? That's a tricky balance. So none of this happens. None of this happened. Not one of these things happens. If I don't get the mentorship, the spotlight, the time, the, that I've had at TNA. TNA is essential. You know what I mean? Like if you take TNA out of this equation, none of this happens. The whole reason this has happened for me is because TNA go, yes, go do it. They would be well within the rights to say, you know what, let's not have Joe do that. But they are being so giving to allow me to have these opportunities i am tna wrestler i'm the tna heavyweight champion there's no there's no part of me that is thinking oh well i can't do this

and i can't there's no such thing as overly grateful for me because i think with the partnership i can be extremely grateful to wwe i can be extremely grateful to to tna for allowing me to have this opportunity because my job is, as I'm the TNA world champion, that is my job. And when you're the champion of a company, your job, my sole job right now is to bring attention and eyeballs to TNA wrestling. And fortunately, that involves walking down the ramp in front of 70,000 people, winning the TNA world championship. That's why this partnership is so awesome because it's totally

mutually beneficial. There's nothing that I've said here that is, oh, well, it's more this way or that way. No, and I'm not implying that. I just want you to be clear, but it's just I can understand, like, you're so happy to get this opportunity. It's a massive platform, but you don't want to seem like you're you've got eyes, you know,

at the girl at the end of the bar, right? You're happy with this girl right here, but that was a pretty cool thing that you just experienced. And so I think you're doing a great job of expressing that. And I'm not suggesting that any of it is inauthentic or insincere,

but it's a very, no one's ever had to do this dance before in your position. But here's the thing, right? Maybe I'm in the best position of all. Yeah. You know what I mean? Oh yeah.

I remember, so me and Matt Cardona had a conversation right after the Rumble and he's like, I don't think you realize the spot that you're in. There's only one person in professional wrestling who can truly be anywhere, anytime, any show, and it's me. Yeah.

I'm in the best spot, you know? So that's the way I choose to frame it. Oh, it's beautiful. No, no, you're in an incredible spot. It's an amazing position that you're in. Could I ask about TNA? Because again, like I said, I remember watching them back in the day. How do you explain what's happening now?

Because, you know, there's the early days with the Jarretts and the Dixie Carter days. And now here's Anthem coming in. And let's be honest, for a minute there, it seemed like it was an AEW WWE two-horse race there's New Japan Ring of Honor gets gobbled up but here's TNA slowly but surely building itself back up the decision to go back to TNA I think was a brilliant one that's a that's a brand and a logo that people recognize um I was I was I was curious to see what would happen when Scott DeBoer left because he seemed to be a big part of the revitalization and now here you guys are seemingly as you said on the upswing how do you explain this what was the turning point to get tna back on track to me there there was no turning point it's been a gradual build like if you look

at it even before but like so before the partnership before you know my song starts going crazy and all that like i say if even if you go back to Hard to Kill in Vegas in January last year, that place was absolutely packed. Then we made a huge upgrade to production at that show. So TNA has been on a very steady upward trajectory for a long time. And obviously the things that we're talking about, they help, but like TNA has been slowly

but surely steadily building up and it's been it's been awesome to be a part of it but to be honest even when i went back to tna in 2022 i mean even then i remember walking out at bound for glory 2022 to you know a full house it was it was a small it was a smaller venue than we do for bound for glory now but there was still an energy about it there was still such a a passionate fan base and just to be this is completely honest i had options and and i chose to go to tna really yeah why i chose to go to tna and it was because at that time um scotland war did an interview where he said they said who do you think could be a future world champion and this was before this actually this was in i think 2017, 2017. And he said,

it was Moose, Josh Alexander and Joe Hendry. And at that point, I was nowhere near the main event. And I thought, well, the fact that he said that, the fact that he said that means that they must see the potential. So if I go here, I'm going, they're probably going to let me be me and I'm going to have the ability to develop, you know, that, that, that was my thinking. And I remember, uh, this is when Jimmy Jacobs was still there. I remember saying, he said, Hey, what do you want to do for your, your debut? And I says, well, I've got this crazy idea for a vignette and this is my opening vignette. And I was like, um, there's a guy, there's an old man in hospital and he's on his deathbed. His family are all around him.

And I want someone to say his name when he's trying to say his last words. And then I'll burst in the door and everyone will be so excited to see Joe Hendry that they will not be paying attention. The guy will flatline and he will die. And I said all that. And Jimmy went, cool. And then I did three vignettes with these like heart, like these horrible situations, but with like my happy music over the top of it, they were just like, I wanted them to be weird,

but, but that sort of British humor almost, you know, there's one where they were going like there, there's a couple and they're saying, you know, your son, he's,

he's not yours. And the dad's like, what do you mean? He's not mine. Who's the, say his name, say his name. And then I burst through the door and he's happy to see me. So it was like these weird vignettes,

but the fact they just let me do these crazy vignettes without checking on me once, they just let me do my thing. So that was one of the big reasons. I needed creative space to learn, to make mistakes and to develop as a talent. And I think that's one of the best things at tna is that like you've got like management are very involved with helping talent um show them best their best selves but also we've got people in the locker room like for example

we've got like an eddie edwards who can look at someone like me and say you know what what if we tweak this this way you know there's a it really does take an army of people to take someone and to elevate them to another position. So, for example, we've got someone called Leon Slater who's just absolutely unbelievable. And he's going to be the next guy. How do we put him in that position? So there's a real team atmosphere.

It's a great time to be in the business. Do watch aw um i i see i see little bits from time to time yeah it's to be honest with the amount of traveling that i do that what what you do is you have to be completely aware of everything that's going on in your own company and have an awareness of what's going on elsewhere you like their product i think there's a yeah i think there's a lot a lot of talent over aw for sure there's unbelievable wrestlers I think there's a, yeah, I think there's a lot, a lot of talent over at AEW for sure. There's unbelievable wrestlers over there. There's unbelievable wrestlers in WWE. There's unbelievable wrestlers in TNA. It's a new Japan and you know, it's just the talent in the business as a whole right now is, is awesome. Yeah. It's a great time to be a fan. It seems very healthy. In fact, as, as an MMA fan as well, I'm, I'm, I'm jealous of the wrestling business in that MMA isn't as healthy.

There's one dominant. MMA is pro wrestling 15 years ago where it was WWE and nothing else. There was no competition. And I believe competition makes everyone better. So that's why I'm rooting for the rise of TNA. I'm rooting for the rise of AW. I think it makes WWE a better product if there are people, you know, n their heels so to speak i think it's better for everyone for the for the for the wrestlers you have options you have places to negotiate with it all it's all good yeah and i

think actually this was highlighted by um you know by my boss ariel in the press release that went out for the the tna nxt press. And it was just making the point that we can still, we can be in competition, we can be in friendly competition, but we can also be mutually beneficial as well. And I think that's what's particularly exciting about the business right now. So you showed up on NXT in the summertime in June. Yes. And that was an incredible success. By the way, at the time there was no partnership officially right um i so now we have like a kind of is you know it's been announced it's official back then it was sort of yeah we were casual yes yes you were you were sort of flirting uh does that mean like tomorrow you could show up on nxt anything can happen yes you just you just saw like if you

think about the the the men's rumble, right? There was I show speed. Yeah. And there was me, right? That boggles my mind that I was, like, one of two surprises. Well, AJ coming back as well. So maybe three surprises overall. But for me to be one of those, I'm going, this is, anything can happen at any time.

So, and the cool thing is, like, see the first time I did NXT? I found out for sure the day before. I was doing an interview with Chris Van Vliet. And when the interview was over, I checked my phone. It was like, it's on. I had a flight going home to Scotland and a flight going to Orlando. And I was like, right, we've got to get the Orlando flight. That's how last minute it can be.

But that's what makes it fun as well. So if there's a guy out there or a girl who, you know, is in the indie scene right now, who's been doing it five, six, seven years, I'm sure inspired by your story, but maybe thinks, how's it going to happen for me? Right. I'm in Europe. I'm in England. I'm God, Canada. What is the message to that person? Because I'm sure you can relate, right, with the sentiment. It seems like you always believed in yourself. You fought through it all and now you're enjoying it. And I feel like you're just scratching the surface, if I'm being honest, like this is just the beginning. But what's the message to that person

who might be doubting the journey? You have to take the responsibility for your own success. You have to put that responsibility on your own shoulders. In my view, there are five things that matter in how to become a professional wrestler. There's the three elements. This is just my opinion. There are three elements

that make you good at the job and there's two elements that get you closer to your goals. So for me, you've got like your look and your physique. That's one element. You've got your in-ring ability.

You've got your charisma and your promos. To me, those are the three components that make you a good wrestler. Then you've got your in-ring ability. You've got your charisma and your promos. To me, those are the three components that make you a good wrestler. Then you've got your ability to promote yourself and your professionalism. Now, what I challenge all wrestlers to do is rank themselves honestly out of 10, with 10 being, you know, the best wrestler in the world and one being someone that's never wrestled before. Where are you on that scale?

And if you honestly rank yourself out of 10 in all of those areas, anybody that's not at the top level is going to find maybe a four, maybe a five, maybe a six somewhere. And you have to be really honest with yourself. If you improve on all those areas, that's what I did. And I noticed actually at the time, my ability to promote myself, I was probably ranking a four, to be honest, before, because I wasn't using Instagram. I wasn't using social media to promote myself. I was doing my entrances, but maybe the company would post it and that would be that. Whereas I had to go, actually, I'm not promoting my own stuff enough. I'm not being effective. Enough influencers out there have figured out social media. I have to figure out social media. And now I would say my ability to promote myself is, you know, an eight or a nine,

you know, in the grand scheme of things, when it was probably a four or five when I first did that, when I first was honest with myself. And I asked myself to rank myself in all those areas every sort of six months or so. And if you as a wrestler can honestly look at yourself and you can rank yourself and go,

you know what, can I improve by a factor of one out of 10 in all those areas in six months? Yeah, I can. And if you aim to be, like in my, and this is, I'm gonna make one claim that might be seen as arrogant. I believe in 2024, I was the world's most improved wrestler.

That's what was important to me. I genuinely believe I'm the world's most improved wrestler if you look at that scale. And if you aim to be the most improved wrestler every year,'re going to be a world champion before you know it love it what advice incredible what's the dream is the cena match the dream match what's what's like the ultimate you seem like a dreamer and I like that and you set big goals what's the dream for you I'll honestly I'm living my dream I really am like I mean when you think about the history like of this championship like TNA as if we're being really honest like tna has had a huge part in defining what modern

wrestling is i remember being you know teenager on holiday just swimming around the pool thinking well imagine if i was x division or tna champion and it's like to actually have this championship here i'm already living the dream anything else that happens it's a bonus from this point and that's incredibly freeing because now I can take those risks I can put myself on a billboard I can call out John Cena on this show I can do all those things because I'm living my dream everything else is just a bonus but if I can if I can be as to both if I can be as bold as to say that is something that I want this year, I believe that I have what it takes to make sure that I am one of the most compelling matches for John Cena. Whether that involves me going over there with the TNA World Championship or whether that involves John Cena coming into enemy territory and working in TNA. Because that's exciting.

I can see you smiling and thinking about that. I love it. I love that stuff. That could be huge. and working in TNA. Because that's exciting. I can see you smiling, thinking about that. I love it. I love that stuff. Right? That could be huge. But then again, there's so many other possibilities that could happen with this crossover. But that, to me, if there's one thing, that's it.

Oh, I'll add another. I'll add another. Something that would be wonderful for both companies and, most importantly, the fans. Can you imagine if we had a TNA DLC? Oh, my gosh. That would be huge. And that's not just the modern roster

like myself. That could be classic AJ Styles. You know? That would be exciting. Okay. So you're a big video game guy.

I honestly don't have a lot of time for video games these days. But the wrestling games is how I got into the business. Yeah, of course. Honestly, I got into

the video games and that's how I got into the business. And that's why I would love TNA to have presence in the video game market because i know so many people become fans through the video games well this is great because i remember in the late 90s i think it was 97 ecw showed up um for their invasion and then of course they buy wcw and and they buy ecw and they kind of try to create the invasion, but it's not quite the same. This feels like the first time that WWE has a relationship with another promotion that they

don't own. You know what I mean? Since that period, unless I'm forgetting something, but I know they've had deals overseas and stuff, but this is different. And I think it's a sign of the times. Again, I wish we saw more of this in MMA. I think it's brilliant. You're seeing it in boxing. You're seeing promoters come together. Now you're seeing it in the world of pro wrestling. So that forbidden door, I guess, has multiple exits and entries. So I think it's great. And I'm delighted for you guys.

I actually knew Ariel Scherner way back in the day from the Fight Network. One of the first people I ever met in this business, 2007, 2008. So to see him in that, when I saw him in the press release, I sent him the picture. I was like, man, you've come a long way since the Fight Network. It's amazing. He's killing it. He's doing an awesome job spearheading all this.

It's a great time to be at TNA Wrestling. And I just want to say a huge thanks to TNA Management and also WWE as well for collaborating and allowing these things to happen because ultimately like any one of them at any point could have said no but i really feel like both tna and wwe went out of their way to give me that moment and i'm really grateful for it i know my family is grateful for it and yeah it's it's i've got a lot of gratitude in life right now love it well you're a very easy guy to root for it's really a lot of fun uh congratulations i now. Love it. Well, you're a very easy guy to root for. Thank you. It's really a lot of fun.

Congratulations. I'm not even going to ask you where you're going from here because I feel like you can show up anywhere. That's it. One last request. Go for it. To that one, camera three, can we get the turn? You can.

Can we get our own? You can. I don't mean to put you on the spot. I know you're an artist. It's all right. But it's just so good. Okay, let me see if I can. Let's get him on camera three right here.

All right, I'm going to stand for this. Okay. I'm going to stand for this. Yeah. So what you got to do, I'll tell you how you do it. Come and do it with me. With you? Come and do it with me.

All right. This feels like painting with Picasso. That's it. That's it. What do I do? More in comparison. Okay, so we're both going to face this way. Are we both in shot?

Yeah, look at us right there. Okay, so the key here is before we go, we're giving away the industry secret here. You've got to take your left foot and pre-turn it. Oh, wow. That's how you do the spin. Okay, one second, let's go here in front of that because I want people to see all this. This is fascinating. Are you okay with that? This means other people could steal my gimmick and I could be out of a job, but you know what? I have to have confidence in my abilities. Right, so we're here and we're going to just pre-turn our left foot and then you get ready and what we're going to do is we're going to spin to the left. So where do you put your arms?

Just a little, just get them ready to swing. The momentum is going to help you. And you're going to use this finger to point at the camera and we're going to go three, two, one, go. And on go, we're going to swing. Can I watch you first? No, you've got to do it together. We're live.

We're live. We're live, okay. But what you've got to do is you've got to awkwardly point and intensely stare into the camera as well. With a smile? With a smile. It's got to be intense you got to awkwardly point and intensely stare into the camera with a smile Do you have the smile on beforehand? Does it happen just overthinking? Three two one go

You swear oh, yeah, I'm allowed to swear. Yeah Okay, that's how that make you uncomfortable. It did allowed to swear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Is that okay? Did that make you uncomfortable? It did a little. Okay, sorry, sorry. Okay, so we're going to go. And on go. All right? You know, I've got to say, I lost my balance. I know.

It's tough. It's tough. I'm an athlete. Okay, all right. So on go. Yeah. Three, two, one, go. Nah, you're way better than me.

That was perfect. That was perfect. What a legend. Thank you, man. Thank you so much. Joe Hendry. Which one am I looking at? This one. Catch him on TNA. By the way, you guys are doing live now. Yes. than me that was perfect that was perfect thank you so much this one catch him on TNA by the way you guys are doing live now yes we are we are doing live

television on occasion it's very exciting and live television you know there's nothing like in professional wrestling and there's just there's a different excitement about it so we're doing we're doing some take some live but yeah something we're experimenting with and I hope that we can do more of it because it's super exciting. Well, I love everything you're doing. My audio guy is going to hate me

because I haven't put the microphone throughout all this. Frank, sorry, commiserations on that, but that was just too much fun. Catch Joe Hendry on TNA Wrestling. It's still called Impact. Yes, TNA Impact, yeah. TNA Impact. They're an incredible company and he's doing big things,

and he's going to headline WrestleMania against John Cena. You heard it here first. We're going to take a quick break. Here's my conversation with Paul Hughes from last week. We'll be back to say goodbye on a stacked Monday. Don't go anywhere. Say his name and he appears. I believe in Joe Hendry.

I believe. How great was Joe Hendry. I believe. How great was that? Frank, I'm sorry. Yeah. I got cut up. I forgot. I forgot. Yeah.

I mean, he taught me how to do the move. You had to do it. I get it. Oh, my God. You know yourself, Frank. It was something. That was a lot of fun. Thank you to Joe for coming in.

Thank you to Carolina for coming in. What a day. 5.15. Oh, my gosh. We have some super chats to get to. for coming in. Thank you to Carolina for coming in. What a day. 5.15. Oh, my gosh. We have some Super Chats to get to. Oh, dear. There's a lot of Super Chats. Wait, when did this start?

Oh, wait. 1.29. What day is it today? Today is the 3rd. Oh, I forgot. You're the one who reads the Super Chats. Yeah. Oh.

Okay, sorry. You know, Duncan writes in, I don't have a question. Just wanted to say thank you to Frank for his hard work, his professionalism, and his skill set when it comes to audio. I love how he specifies the specific skill. Sure. He is a standout member of the team, and his efforts do not go unnoticed by viewers. How did you pay for that in pounds, Frank? Yeah.

That is weird. When did you decide that that in pounds? Yeah. That is weird. When did you decide that Duncan was going to be your alias? Yeah, these are all good questions. Thank you, Duncan. That's very sweet. It warms my heart. 24-inch Dubs, the casual, sends in 5Canadian. And I think the gist of what he's saying is,

you guys are great and you make my day amazing. Oh, wow. Great Google Translate. Merci, Ariel and les boys. Thank you, Ariel and the boys. Tu rends toutes nos journées meilleures. You make all our days better. What a legend.

Merci, merci. J'apprécie. All right. We got 20 sweets. The fight to make here is... Looks like sec. No? Thank you.

Yeah. Swedish crowns, I think they are. Oh, wow. Yo, shout out to garlic. Did we talk about these before? Yeah. No, I you. Yeah. Swedish crowns, I think they were. Oh, wow. Yo, shout out to garlic. Did we talk about these before? Yeah. No, I don't know. The fight to make here is MVP versus Derek Lewis.

Yo, that's kind of weird. Yeah, all right. Matt Borgeson writes. That dude just spent $1.79 to say that. You know what, we don't judge. We don't judge. You send what you want. All right. You send what you want. I do want to point out that someone spent 20 pounds

just to gas me up, so I appreciate that. If there ends up being a trilogy for Better Be Avivl, do you think we'll end up seeing him face off against Boazzi if he beats Callum Smith? By the way, I love how you say it. Yes, Joshua.

If there ends up being a trilogy for Better Be Aville, do you think we'll end up seeing... Oh, this is regarding David Benavidez. I was about to say Joseph Benavidez. I don't hate that one. Yeah, Boati Callum Smith is the curtain jerker for February 22nd. That's how deep that card is.

Don't hate that one, but the one I really want to see is... Honestly, I guess it depends on how that fight ends if it's controversial, if it's close, if it's this if it's that, but I don't want to see them fight each other three times in a row I think the inclusion of David Benavidez

into this tournament, if you will would be great, and by the way I wouldn't hate if the loser of that fight fights Murrell. F it. Robert McAllister wanted to point out that topology has Gezi as the number one heavyweight in the world, which has been confirmed by On Air Jordan.

Okay. Shout out. On Air or... Is that true? That's not true. Look at it. What? I thought it was a joke. How is that even possible? Is that true? That's not true. Look at it. What? Receipts. Oh, I thought it was a joke.

How is that even possible? Is that fan voting? You beat Thomas Peterson, you get the number one ranking. No, but how does their rankings work? I think those are like fan ones, right? I think, you know what? I don't know. I think you can make your own list, yeah i can't i can't tell what's

going on here that follows your world rider rankings shout out what else uh we have one more yes uh jason carney sends in three dollars and eleven cents ah creature's best 311 song yes um there's a little bit of a back story on this one We'll get to it really quickly You don't think I know the back story? I absolutely know you don't know the back story I 100% know the back story No no take this confidence

I want to see where this goes Earlier you made a comment that you liked the show Peep Show Yes And I was surprised by that Why? I tried to like I don't know I mentioned Spaced before

I know cringe humor is not necessarily your thing from what i understand British humor definitely my thing okay well so then i had like said that to the control room and they all kind of like no sold it like frank get back to work or whatever so i went to the chat who was always there for me oh and then connor goes on the chat and tells me to shut up wow within the chat is like coming to my defense where they're telling connor that you know he should stop bullying me then they start saying that i am like a house elf from the harry potter universe which are notoriously like shat on by the humans sure sure and one of the house elves names is creature so they were really uh all i'm saying

is that you know chat engagement is good it's never looked better oh yeah thumbs up to the chat thumbs up to the chat chat It's a new era Members only chat Being received well, people liking it They couldn't be happier Yeah I believe in Johandre

Connor loves that song So good By the way, the big Point of pride for me Is how I would say of the crew, I mean, I would say probably you and Jordan are probably like the least wrestling fans, if that makes any sense. Right? Yeah, I think that's fair. And I think you both enjoyed the Rumble the most. Oh, yeah.

I was hyped for the last- Even Andy was watching the Rumble. Yeah. Show him in at the 17. Listen, it doesn't matter. You watch. It doesn't matter. Everyone's all...

I mean, I don't remember the last time we all watched, unless you guys were working it, like everyone was all in. PT's staying up till 4 or 5 a.m. to watch the Rumble. I had a fantastic time. Had several people over. They all enjoyed it. Are you watching Raw tonight?

Is that the... No. No, okay. Are you going to watch Elimination Chamber? over they all enjoyed it are you watching raw tonight is that the you know no okay are you are you are you are you gonna watch elimination chamber maybe because of the the promo that's seen a cut oh i thought what happens in elimination chamber they all get put in a cage they all get put in this thing with pods and so basically jay uso is now um the guy who gets to pick which title he's gonna go after for wrestlemania right because you win the Rumble and you punch your ticket. Why?

Explain to me why he wouldn't go for Cody. Yeah, the top title. Well, there's two, there's technically, technically they want you to believe that they're both the top title. And so it's Cody and Gunther. But if we're being honest, with all due respect, it's Cody's. Now there is some thought that he's going to go

for Gunther's for some reason. And then Cena wins the Elimination Chamber. reason, and then Cena wins the Elimination Chamber, and then the person who wins the Elimination Chamber gets the shot at the other belt. Now, how they get there, who the hell knows? But it seems like a lot of people think it's going to be Cody versus Cena. Now, you know how I feel about this. I love John Cena. I would love to have him in the studio.

He's long been one of my favorite wrestlers of all time. Say his name. This is a departure from this morning when we're talking bald spots. When he's in studio, do you mention that to him? Like, oh, you got a little bald spot there. Listen, we all have our things. We all have our things. By the way...

Wait, who's that? Who's that? Who's that? I think Frank is trying to get Jordan in trouble because I don't think Jill liked it, and now we're playing it over and over. He requested it earlier today. You lost your train of thought.

Where were you? Sina. Something about Sina. Say his name. Sina versus, I love the way he's building that up. I could see it. It's reminiscent of Sina calling out Kurt Angle way back in the day. Obviously, he was a debutante back then,

but there is a little bit of a passing of the torch involved there. That'd be fun. Yeah. We going to? Slammiversary? Slammiversary, UBS, July. Oh, is that it? Is that the arena?

UBS arena, yeah. Oh, he said June. Oh, UBS arena is a big time arena. Yeah, man. I said Hammerstein. I thought it was. Oh, he said June. Oh, UBS Arena is a big-time arena. Yeah, man. I said Hammerstein. I thought it was... Yeah, that was a little bit insulting to him. Well, I didn't realize that they were running UBS.

TNA Wrestling Slammiversary, July 20th, Belmont Park, New York. UBS Arena. Pay-per-view and TNA+. I'm there. Let's do it. Should we go? Oh, yeah. Let's do it.

I've never been to UBS. You guys went there for the UFC. It's the worst. Is it the worst? I went for AEW, actually. No, I heard Oh, yeah. Let's do it. I've never been to UBS. You guys went there for the UFC. Oh, yeah, it's the worst. Is it the worst? I went for AEW, actually, too. No, I heard it's beautiful. It's an amazing arena. Wait, it's the worst?

It's hard to get there. Incredibly difficult to get to. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, that's fair. The arena itself is very nice, though. Yeah, the arena's great. All right, was there anything else? I don't think so, man.

Great show. I'm seeing this clip here from Jedi of Dana White on Piers Morgan. Yeah, we need to protect hate speech. Well, first he says we have to protect free speech, okay? Is there any limit to that for you, Piers Morgan says? No, I think probably the most important free speech to protect is hate speech. I mean, because when a government or a certain person can come out and determine and say this is hate speech,

it's a very slippery slope and it's dangerous in my opinion. We all have opinions, right? It's also weird. I find it fascinating how these guys are like propping Dana White as being the sort of arbiter of what is free speech, what is not speech. He's a fight promoter. He's a fight promoter who's turned into a great businessman, but like they look to him to be this sort of moral compass as to what's free speech, what's hate speech, what's not hate speech, what is free speech. It's like, what are we doing? And by the way, this being an individual who bans media from covering their events because he doesn't like things that they write or doesn't like things that they report

on or doesn't like information that they have. Like, come on, the hypocrisy there is outlandish. It's crazy that this has become the sort of bastion of free speech in society. This guy has become the bastion of you can't punish, you can't police, you can't do this, that, or the other, when like that's, you know know that's what he has been doing for the last 20 something years come on now god bless much love the the success of the organization is is unmatched unparalleled unbelievable there's nothing you could say but like could we chill out with all this no or at the very least just ask okay so how do you feel about this and that? Like, how do you, like, how does your stance, and by the way, maybe the stance has changed, because Lord knows the stance has changed from, you know, 10 years ago when guys

were getting cut and fired and, you know, suspended for saying things or doing things. So maybe that stance has changed as well towards the media. I don't know. But there is a hypocrisy there, in my opinion. Just my opinion. Tomorrow on the program, we're going to have Chael Sonnen on. It's an old school Ariel and the Bad Guy day. Who's excited? Anyone?

Chael Sonnen, promoter for Joe Hendry. And Oban Elliott. Yeah. Who knew that Chael had his tentacles all over The UK Wales Scotland Was there anything

Else that we needed To do before we went Bye bye I mean we could Hit the music Okay we could do that Thank you to Averon As well by the way

At one point In the show early on I was cooking And then Eric Got on my ear And then I forgot To get to it. Sorry.

But I think... I think we're in a good spot. We're in a great spot. Say his name and he appears. I believe in Joe Hendricks. Oh man, there's all kinds of news. I'm seeing here on uncrowned.com, WWE star Brock Lesnar named in federal hush money lawsuit against former company chairman Vince McMahon. What a day.

I mean, where else? Where else in the world of sports do you get David Benavidez? Do you get Joe Hendry? Do you get MVP Terrence McKinney? Carolina? I mean, where else do you get this range? You know, where else do you get this range? It doesn't exist.

Has there been any more trades in the world of basketball? No. Nothing. Although I'm seeing rumors of like Mitchell Robinson on the way out the goal. Oh. Oh, yeah. Okay. But nothing concrete. A couple people.

Bheunin. Alex Bheunin that Tarzini Rosenstreich released from the UFC. Oh. Not a good performance on Saturday. Well, wasn't it just like off the roster? We don't know. Sometimes that's just like free agent. Yeah, I see here from Mitchell Robinson.

Hell yeah, that's what I'm talking about, baby. A tweet from him. Honestly, I'd be okay with it Bring me Austin Reeves Bring me Dalton Connect I think one you might get Come on Come home guys Tremendous show thank you to all our guests

Thanks to you thanks all that Back on Tuesday same time place Peace