The Ariel Helwani Show - Kron Gracie in studio, Maycee Barber, Caroline Dubois, Mansur Abdul-Malik, On The Nose

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

Ariel Helwani starts the show with On The Nose, touching on the heated back-and-forth between Joanna Jedrzejczyk and Jamahal Hill, why MMA retirements don’t stick, how Paramount will recoup its UFC investment and how that impacts fighter pay, and more (11:24).Maycee Barber is back to break down her UFC 323 win over Karine Silva, discussing her health heading into the fight, the illegal upkicks she received, chasing a title shot, wanting to rematch Alexa Grasso, not being impressed by Valentina Shevchenko’s performance against Zhang Weili, and more (1:03:51).Mansur Abdul-Malik brings his infectious energy to the show, talking about his first-round submission of Antonio Trocoli at UFC 323, how his MMA journey started, being inspired by Rory MacDonald, why he’s so intense while preparing for fights, honoring his father and realizing his dreams, and more (1:28:16).Kron Gracie joins Ariel in-studio to reflect on his UFC career, talk about his departure from the promotion, fan reaction to him pulling guard, training with Gilbert Melendez, growing up with Rickson as a father, his unique training techniques, his perspective on earning jiu-jitsu black belts, and more (2:04:45).WBC women’s lightweight champion Caroline Dubois is our final guest of the day, discussing her signing with Most Valuable Promotions, leaving Boxxer, fighting on the Jake Paul vs. Anthony Joshua card, wanting to fight Alycia Baumgardner, and more (3:10:40).Ariel answers more On The Nose questions and Super Chats to close the show (3:34:31).

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Eriya-Hawani Show. Back in your life on this Tuesday, December 9th, 2000. And 25, hello again, everyone. I sure hope you're doing well. I am doing very well. I am very happy to be indoors. It is freaking freezing out there, Mr. Bigglesworth. What movie? What movie, what movie, what movie? Austin Powers. So good, Frank. Can't put one past you. Yes, it is very cold. I woke up today. It was like negative 12 degrees. Celsius, that is. I don't know what that is in Fahrenheit. I still haven't converted over to the American way.

but nevertheless I'm happy to be inside our Toasty Toasty Studio And there's a lot to get to my friends Yesterday was a jam-pack day We had a lot on the docket We had a lot to discuss post-UFC 323 Post-Paper-view Monday, post-P-L-E Monday Post-final UFC on ESPN pay-per-view But it's not the final UFC on ESPN show

That is this weekend And we've got another tremendous lineup of guests Yesterday was great Excited about this lineup an eclectic mix of guests from around the world of combat sports at about 2 p.m. Eastern time. We're going to be joined by the one and only Macy Barber who had that big win over the weekend. She was victorious, emotional afterwards at UFC 323. So we'll check her with Macy, see how she's feeling following the victory.

Mansour Abdel Malik is turning into one of the most interesting fighters in the UFC. A very thoughtful, introspective, deep individual. dare I say like cerebral and a youngster he's 28 so you know not super young but young enough unbeaten 9 o and 1 had a draw prior to Saturday's fight was victorious on Saturday's fight won in approximately 69 seconds no exactly 69 seconds beat Antonio Tricoli via standing guillotine fantastic win for him and that was his third win in the U.S. Again, the draw back in June in Atlanta won on Contender Series, someone that the UFC and everyone at Extreme Gator is very, very high on.

If you're not familiar with this young man, stick around. Super interesting. Like I said, deep, thoughtful. I've enjoyed the content that I've consumed from him and am very much looking forward to speaking to him at around 2.30 Eastern Time. The one and only, the inimitable, the enigma, ice cream, Crone Gracie, is going to be in studio guys at 3 o'clock. And that's not an easy one to get in studio. And to be honest, there's a part of me that is still wondering if it will in fact happen. But I am being told

it is going to happen. And he's in action in New York on December 12th this weekend. So that is Friday night Victory Fight League at Terminal 5 here in New York. This is a new promotion. They had a show Terminal 5 a couple months ago. And then prior to that in August had a show in Times Square here in New York City and they're trying to make some moves they're trying to make some waves and they've signed

Crone Gracie of the legendary Gracie family the son of Hickson Gracie former UFC fighter we haven't seen him in a year auxiliary member of the scrap pack going to be joining us in studio at 3 o'clock I'm excited about that and then a bit of breaking news this morning

we woke up to the news at approximately 9 a.m. Eastern time that the undefeated WBC lightweight world champion Caroline Dubois sweet Caroline

sing it with me Ba ba Good times never She has left boxer Over in the UK Ben Shalom's outfit and has signed with most valuable promotions and she's going to be in action on the undercard

of AJ Jake Paul next week next Friday in like 10 days from now in Miami makes a lot of sense to have some UK flavor on there, of course, with AJ fighting on the card, and MVP has now added another big name to their growing stable of female boxers. This is one of the best names that they've signed so far. Like I said, unbeaten, and that just came through this morning. So excited to have her on, excited to talk to her about that decision.

There's the lineup. And then on the right side of the screen, you see on the nose. I did want to say one thing about we will be doing on the nose today, and we'll actually be doing it tomorrow as well. I wanted to say one quick thing about the announcement. I saw yesterday, everyone was hitting me up. What's this? What's this? What's this?

What's this? Jake Paul announcing yesterday evening that, what was the tweet? The tweet was some sort of tease. Here it is. 9 a.m. Eastern, Tuesday, major update had to be done. It is what it is. Right? And so the play here is the fight is off.

And that's what people were asking me about, texting about it, we were texting about it, people hitting me up. That's the play here, right? Like that's what they're wanting you to think. A bit of a code red, oh my God, the fight is off, you ducked. And then even when he made the announcement, it was something to the effect of like, you dummy thought I was going to pull out of the fight. Ridiculous. I'm just building five years in creating a roster of the best. Welcome to MVP, Ms. Dubois, Calend Dubois.

And the video they put out, which we can't play because there's some music attached, was very, was very creative. hey, let's train with Dubois. You know, he, he, Dubois, beat Joshua, you know, playing up on, on Daniel Dubois and all that stuff. And then, of course, they call up Caroline and say, you've, you've now joined the team. You're a part of the team. We're lucky to have you. We're happy to have you. This is the thing.

And it's great. It's great social media. The one issue I have is with the bait and switch at the top. I don't like the bait and switch at the top. I don't like the first initial tweet. I don't, you're in the business. right now of getting people to believe in you. You're in the business of getting people to believe that everything you do is legit. I believe it. We defend it. We talk about it. But there are others

who don't. Let's not kid ourselves. And so to be in the business of trying to get people to believe that everything you are doing is on the up and up, which I do believe 100% is. And then doing stuff like that, it just, it doesn't help your cause. And so, look, far be it for me to tell them how to market, to tell them how to tweet, to tell them how to promote. But that's not the way I would go about doing things. You want to be honest. You want to be the honest brokers. You don't want to be the bait and switchers.

You don't want to be the ones who are telling. And this is maybe not the biggest deal in the world. But like, man, what is the constant theme attached to all these fights? Is it real? Is it not? Is it a fake fight? Is it a work? Is it a shoot?

And now you're in the business of like leading people astray and they'd be like, of course I wasn't going to pull out, guys. We're just talking about this announcement. Just say tomorrow we have a big announcement. Or guess what? Just say, just announce the news. No need for the announcement for the announcement. No one's sitting there on Twitter scrolling around and refreshing at 9 a.m.

Anyways, just drop the news. That's it. I don't love the bait and switch stuff. I don't like playing people's emotions like that. I don't love leading people straight, especially when you're in that position of trying to turn all the naysayers into believers. Okay? This is me on my soapbox. It's not the biggest deal.

Probably no one thought of it. but I just, I believe in honest brokering. I believe in trying to get people to believe that everything you say is legit. And maybe you can't tell the whole story right now, but you're certainly not going to throw curveballs intentionally at people and try to get them to think one thing is happening, i.e. the duck or the pullout and then say, like, of course, no, it's just a signing. Not my cup of tea.

Guys, I have a very exciting thing to tell you all. as you know, the number one social media platform in all of combat sports is threats. That's where all the activities happening. I mean, I was on there this morning and I see Yawani and Jacek and Jamal Hill going back and forth. My head is spinning more on that in a moment. But I thought we'd switch it up a little bit and add to the on the nose segment as an addendum, if you will, as a little sprinkle on top, as a little sugar and spice, that we would take some questions over on threads because the conversation there never sleeps.

And so this is what we're going to do. Today, I don't know. There it is. I'll keep that up. Today, we are going to have this conversation. We're going to do on the nose. The vast majority of the questions are going to come from threads. And by the way, shout out to the guys on threads.

Shout out to everyone on threads. The guys and gals, great questions, thoughtful questions. I've enjoyed them very much. I thought there'd be some, you know, meshugas. I thought that'd be some trolling. None of it. And then tomorrow, we're going to give you two on the noses. tomorrow we're going to because there's so many on substack tomorrow I will cover the vast

majority on substack does that seem fair is everyone okay with that to try to wedge them both into one segment seems you know seems like a lot and so we have time tomorrow we're going to do substack tomorrow threads today what do you guys think of that do you guys like that yeah yeah I thought so I thought so and so I put out the um you know the bat signal I also told you guys I just want to let you know to save the date, December 18th, 2025, nine days from today. A lot of people have been asking about our next road show. Here's what I can tell you, December 18th, do we have like a siren? Do we have like that purge sound that Crone once walked out to?

December 18th, 2005, Miami, Florida, Sobe, South Beach. Florida, the next Halwani Road Show, coming at you live with an audience. Potentially no fee to enter. Zero. That's the potential news. December 18th, Miami 305, next Halwani Roadshow. Time, TBD. Password, not required.

Username. Not required. Anyone get the reference? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? Is it jailed someone? Yeah, thank you, PC. Thank you.

Anyway, username not required, password not regard. Entry fee not required. We can confirm that. Oh, thank you. Time and place, TBA. Not TBD, TBA. Big difference. TBD means we haven't decided.

TBA, we haven't announced. You understand? And I'm not going to put out a tweet saying, like, we're going to Nebraska and then Baden Switche and say, we're going to Miami. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? I dig it. Okay.

Anyway, there's a lot of information. There's a lot of information that I just threw your way from Caroline Dubois to threads to bait and switches and tweets and all that stuff. But now let's get to the on-the-nose questions. Time now for everyone's favorite segment of the week at this time. It's time for all the nose. So I was perusing and like I said, a lot of great questions, a lot of insightful questions, honest questions, no trolley type of questions. I did happen to see that the most liked question underneath my call to action, as they say in the business, CTA, was one from young Pizzi Carol, who says and asks and ponderes, does I have to be active on here now? It's a real question.

Is that from you? Yeah. I did get a message, I just want to let you know, from the head man over at Threads, the man who runs the whole operation over there. He's a great man named Matt Lee, proud Buffaloan, proud Buffalo Bills fan, proud member of the Bill's Mafia, proud 716er, and he wrote to me, tell PTSY yes. Okay. Well, I just wanted to know, you know, and I wasn't aware, I did it while we're on the show

Oh, yes, and I forgot all about it. You actually asked me a question as I was writing it, which, you know, I left to the typo. But typos not uncommon for me, and I don't like to change them. No. Just that's how I was feeling at the time. It's art, really, my tweets. Okay. All right.

Well, I just want to let you know that it is the place. I believe everyone has signed up, right? Absolutely. I've actually been signed up. And you signed up? My first thread was in summer of 2023. Damn, what did you write? I did like a meme of like Twitter

McGregor pushing Chandler It was up the time, you know 1231 was going on Oh yeah Oh yeah, oh yeah Haven't threaded since But I'm back Get me over here now

That's usually what people intro us isn't it Tap tap tap tap is this thing on Yeah Yeah yeah yeah That's a classic I'm on threads maybe Probably did that All right let's get into it gents

UFC missiles up first Does this loss hurt Pantosia's legacy Does this loss her Pantosha's legacy? Oh, look at that. Ooh, I like this. No, of course not. Does anyone think this law?

I mean, how could it hurt his legacy? It was a freak accident. It was a freak injury. The fight never even started. It's not like one of those who was like, oh, you know, it's not like Leon and Bilal. But he wasn't piecing him up for a round and a half. And then there was a freak injury or freak accident. The fight lasted 26 seconds.

And the injury probably happened in like 22 seconds or 21 seconds in. So I don't think that it hurts his legacy at all. Now, we'll see whether or not this changes the trajectory of his career. If he comes back and he's not the same, Dr. Brian Suter did a phenomenal job yesterday. We're still waiting on the update on his shoulder, but he gave us a great, you know, I thought a great, you know, diagnosis, prognosis on what he's dealing with as far as the elbow is concerned. But I don't know how that can change or hurt his legacy at all. We could say, you know, Anderson Silva was maybe not the same after he broke his leg.

Chris Wyman, not the same after. So this will be the moment where we find out, is he, is he going to be changed forever? Is he going to be a different fighter? Is he going to lose something? But I don't know how this can change or hurt his legacy. CAD Paul asks, how does Paramount make its money back? They make their money back via subscriptions. That's why I think the vast majority of the UFC content, the Zoufa boxing content, the contender series content, the Ultimate Fighter content, all the content that they just paid a hell of a lot of money for is going to be behind the subscription paywall.

That's how you make your money back. And that's why they're raising the subscription price. And that's why when Dana White keeps saying that we're the only ones that have a TV deal, I want to know just how much of that content, especially on the boxing side of things, just how much of that is going to actually air on TV. Because Zufu Boxing, to me, as an unknown commodity,

I know it's backed by, you know, heavy hitters, But as an unknown commodity, I can't really understand why it would air on CBS unless they have, you know, a big time fight that they're going to put on there. But it seems like they'd rather put those fights on Netflix. How much of that is actually going to air on TV? And then ultimately, if none of it airs on TV, is there a massive difference between being on P-plus or being on DeZone? More subscribers on P-plus, but there are two streaming platforms. So the thing of like we're the only ones on TV Let's see, let's see

We haven't gotten that intel Those details just yet CID Paul says Is the Contender Series moving to Paramount a bad idea Why would that be a bad idea? Does anyone think it's a bad idea? Why would it be? I mean it's just going from one streaming platform to the other

It was just like it was on ESPN It's the same thing Yeah Now it's on P plus you get you get p plus over there in ireland what is on there what is on there okay sponge rob mission impossible

champions league where does you by the way where does contender series air in ire in ireland fight pass baby wow that's an interesting one so you need fight pass for that and anything else and

apatoia fights yeah that's a good point because I'm curious what they're going to do with the fight pass I thought for the longest time that they would try to sell it to someone, like WWE did to Peacock, basically. They just sold the network. They haven't done that. I thought maybe they would try to do it with this one. Maybe they're trying to line everything up and then sell it, but I didn't realize. So Contender

Series on Fight Pass over there. All right, well, there you have it. Corbyn Peter up next. Is it just me, or is anyone else sick of these fake UFC retirements? I know they've been going on forever within this sport and others, mainly as a negotiating tactic. But lately, there has been so many of them that it's getting tiring and lessens the impact for legendary fighters who are actually retiring.

Curious to hear your thoughts on it. So which one? Which one do you think he's referring to as far as fake retirements are concerned? Does he not, does he think like Dustin is faking it or Henry is fake? Yeah.

I think probably Sohudo re-retiring this weekend after the 2020 thing is. I kind of feel like that's just a staple of combat sports. That's why, by the way, yeah. Yeah, by the way, John Sina. That's why I feel like he,

might come back in five, six years too. I know he's older and banged up, but he'll be on raw in March. Exactly. No one retired. Look how many times Undertaker has come back after he, quote unquote, retired. Paul Kogan did the same. And I know it's a different. I saw him buried once on a match and he came back. So I mean, yeah, yeah. There's always a price if somebody will pay even in, like their time as a top level competitor as a highly ranked competitor is over. But if somebody's willing to pay to get them out, they're always going to come out of retirement. There is no retirement. I agree.

And more often than not, there's going to be something that pops up, you know, whether it's, here's the thing. If Dustin Porriette comes back in a grappling match, has he gone against his word? No, I don't think so. No. It has to be an M.MA fight. Boxing? Even that, I don't consider breaking his work. You're not like Tony Fergson, Rick?

No, if you retire from MMA, you retire from MMA. The difference is Tony Ferguson keeps talking about he wants to have another MMA fight. boxing is fine for me. I don't consider that coming out of retirement from MMA. I'm fine with that. The difficulty with these guys is that they've lived this life for so long and they can come back for just a one-off. Like it's just a, you know, obviously you have to do the training camp and everything, but it's just like, well, I could just come back and just fight one more time. Like, imagine if a football player retired and then it's like, well, I could go back and just play one more football game. I feel like you would see more people going back to play. Yeah, and consider like how fondly we're looking at this latter half of Anderson-Solv.

his boxing career versus like the end of his MMA run. Like this has been pleasant. This has been nice. I like seeing this. I like having Anderson around. So if you retire from MMA and go box, I'm fine with that. But I think that's coming out of retirement.

I think grappling not. If you go into another sport where you're getting punched in the face, I think that is coming out of retirement. But to Rick's point, like it's different. It's different like with Anderson who had success and fought Chavez Jr. And, you know, did Anderson actually retire? Like, he hasn't fought an MMA.

No, but he didn't actually retire from MMA. I think the UFC just said, okay, we're good here. I remember there was that moment. He was down on the ground. Uriah Hall fight, Halloween. But it felt like he was just done with the UFC, not done with the sport. My point is those two things are kind of the same because you're going to come out of there is no, there is no such thing as retirement.

It doesn't exist. If the money offer comes, they're going to come. they're going to come out of retirement. Anderson Silva, just switching sports is the same thing for all. Is there someone who retired in fight sports? Not enough time has passed. Not enough time. I'm saying that, like, you can now definitive say, you know who one of those people are?

Lennox Lewis. Lennox Lewis retired somewhat in his prime and never came back. Yeah, there's very few. Chabeeb could easily come back. You know, like Gina Carrano. A lot of people medically retired too, which, no, is there someone who kind of, not Barry Sanders-esque? Yeah, you have to.

walk away when you still have juice left. Lennox Lewis is one of the best examples, in my opinion. One of the few. Like, if GSP would have never come back, if GSP would have never come back, he would have been the greatest example. And by the way, if Habeeb never comes back. But I'm saying historically,

there haven't been a lot of those, right? No, because when they're still viable, the fans still want to see it. And people know that they can still make a buck off it. You have to be willing to turn down money. You have to be willing to turn down money to do this properly. And there are very few who are willing to.

I don't think Habib's ever going to come back. Yeah, so he would be the best one, probably, as far as MMA is concerned, for sure. Rich Emory Music, it's tough when it's all one word. You're not sure, like, where to end the word, you know what I mean? Do you believe Fighter Pay is actually going up with the new deal? Based on Dana's press conferences, seems like they still haven't figured out with the new partnership. and it's starting in a month. Yeah, he was asked about it on Saturday, and he's like, yep, yep, we, he said, I'm paraphrasing,

we have something in place to offset the pay-per-viewpoints. Again, in case you don't know, if you're a champion, you get paper viewpoints. Generally, there are some who are sort of lower on the totem pole who sort of foregoed those or said they want the guaranteed money instead, but let's say you're someone like Alex Pereira, you're someone like Hamza, you're someone like Connor back in the day. And what that means is you get to participate in the pay-per-view revenues. So if a pay-per-view would have generated 200,000 buys, generally the floor was historically like 250, I believe, was either 250 or 200.

And then everything above that, whether it goes in increments of 25K or 50K, you get money off of that, a dollar, a buy, et cetera. Now that's not going to be a thing anymore. And so the question is, what do they do with those contracts, which state you get pay-per-viewpoints? He says that it's been figured out, figured out. I think the floor is just going to be raised, the ceiling is going to be raised, and everyone's just going to take whatever they give them. What else are you going to do?

Oh, I'm going to take my ball and go home. I'm going to go negotiate with someone else like you can't. And that's the thing with that, with the bonuses, with the base pay, with the entry level pay, all that and more. This is why I talk about revenue sharing. This is why I talk about collective bargaining. They just decide. There is no bargaining.

And everyone has their own deal. Everyone has their own relationship. Everyone has their own agreements and contracts. But they will decide. And if they want the entry level pay to be 15 and 15, that's what it's going to be. There's going to be no, like, you know what? We actually think it should be 20 and 20 based on that. It's like, no, this is not going to happen.

So if you were asking whether or not that's been established and whether or not anyone has actually been told outright, no, that hasn't happened. it's just kind of happening as time goes on incrementally, and there's no real rhyme or reason for it. It's not as simple as, oh, their TV revenue in the United States alone, remember, we talk about Paramount. That's just their U.S. deal that doesn't account for the UK, the rest of Europe, Brazil, Canada, Australia, whatever. That's just the United States. That's 7.7. Oh, that went up times two from America, in America, from the ESPN deal. That doesn't mean. mean everything else is going up times two. I mean, you would think it would go up, you know, that big of a jump would lead to that big of a jump as far as pay, but not exactly

how it goes. S.W. Shubel says, you could only have one Canadian pop punk band. Is it simple plan or some 41? I kind of feel like it's neither. Good man. What's simple plan? What are they saying? Frank, do you know? I only know the simple plan from like the 80s. No, they have a song. There was an addicted by Simple Plan? Sing it to me. I'm addicted, I'm addicted to you. Don't you forget about me.

That's not right. I'm just a kid. I don't know. I know Simple Plan. I'll tell you, I have a soft spot. What's New Scooby-Doo? They sing What's New Scooby-Doo? Yeah.

I have a soft spot in my heart for Aver Levine. Nice. I loved Aver Levine. He just a skater boy. He said, see you later, boy. wasn't good enough uh yeah um canadian music back in the day was great you know there's um brian adams yeah but he's not really punk you consider him punk i mean i don't know if many people would consider him i just think he's our hand no neil young um yeah he is canadian

right yeah i was thinking of um oh my god he's the godfather grunge though i can't believe i'm forgetting oh my god leon i was thinking of leonard cohen i was thinking of of Leonard Cohen. He got all his money robbed on him and he is to have to tour endlessly. Leonard Cohen. Yeah. Passed away, though. Well, you know.

You're saying back in the day. Back when he was alive. Oh, it sounded like you were saying this happened recently that he's still touring. Do you know the song, I'm just a teenage der bag baby? Yeah, I love that song. I don't think they're Canadian, but I like that song. That's a interesting way to go. Canada can have that one.

Canada's had some good bands back of the day. I went to some great concerts back. The Rascals. Shoclair, Cardinal official. I mean, the rap scene was just on fire in the late 90s. Yeah. Maestro Fresh West. Aubrey Graham, aka Drizzy Drake.

Queen Dion. Of course. Sarah McLaughlin. God's children are not for sale, asks, who's Joe? What? What is that is a serious thing? Who is Joe? Who is Joe?

What is the... Real ball knowers know what this means. What does it mean? What does it mean? It's the Max Holloway-Lia-Tuporia Zoom interview. And Max Holloway is like, you're doing the same drills. You're doing the same drills. But when he says drills, it sounds like he's saying Joe.

And then Teporea is just like, who's Joe? And he's like, kind of laughing at first. He's like, who's Joe? And then he gets really serious. He's like, who the fuck is Joe? Oh, my God. Who is Joe? Okay.

I wasn't aware of it. I only got exposed to it through G.C., but once I saw it, it was magical. It's so good. It's when L.A. Depore is doing the bupah, bu, bu, bu. Oh, yes, yes, yes. You're doing the same job. You're the same jo.

Frankie, how come these days when P.T. laughs, and we love his laugh, but we hear the crackle. We're working on it. Yeah, why is that? I heard it yesterday, too. Is that C.R. A.C.? Can I just say. I don't want to, I don't want to, he hit you up on the blower. not frank few people

like just saying pizzi unrelated the laugh is crackling well here's the thing I love the laugh but I feel like you know someone's trying to hurt the laugh

and suppress it by doing that I think it's frank I think it's frank that's my own opinion I spoke to him before the show yeah I was walking around my house

last night saying that over and over to myself we need the original one though I feel like that wasn't the original I swear it's not the original one was like to it yesterday. 30 million for a kitchen sclap.

You guys have built it in your minds. No, the freaking, the freaking crackle just happened. What's it? Frank, what's the crack? What is happening? Yeah,

what's the crack with the crackle? He's, he's clipping his mic. We're working on it. Thank you. What am I doing? Oh, no, please, please. Oh, no.

Please, he calmed down. Stop, stop. It just did it again. It just did it again. Take a breath. Take a breath. Take a breath. Take a breath.

See, thank you for breaking that down for us. Now, do me a favor. In, in 60 seconds or less, please break down. Giovanni on Jacek versus Jamal Hill. Please, enlighten me. All right, 60 seconds or less. So we saw the clip that looked like it was...

No, we didn't see anything. We didn't see anything. The clip came out on Saturday night. It looked like it was in someone's shirt pocket. You couldn't really see much. And it appeared to be Yowana versus Jamal Hill. And Jamal Hill was like, I'll knock you the fuck out. And she was like, oh, yeah?

Yeah, you will. And we really didn't know what was going on. There was rumors that it was... She had threatened Jamal Hill's girlfriend. That turns out that that is not true. Jamal Hill's girlfriend wasn't even there. we get a video released by Yawanna Jung-J check. Should we just play it?

Should we watch the video? Let's watch it. Okay, why not? Why not? Here's the video. Here's Yawanna. She kind of was the first to speak out about this, right? There was some footage of them going back and forth.

Graney, I would say the Kennedy video was a lot clearer than this one. I mean, I wasn't really sure what I was looking at, if I'm being 100% honest. But apparently there was some sort of conversation, altercation, interaction. And then all of a sudden, last night, we get a video from Yowana. here is said video. Hi guys. I worked so hard to earn my reputation and I'm embarrassed to be in this situation.

But when somebody uses my name falsely without any basis in truth, I will always stand up for myself. And for that, I do not deserve to be threatened. I am mindful that I am a strong, capable woman who has the benefit of a lifetime of self-defense training. I have a platform and resources that most women don't have.

So I empathize with the women who are disrespected and threatened and lack the power and means to stand up for themselves. And to stand up for the truth. I expect more from the society. I certainly expect more from athletes in our sport. I want to thank the EFC security. security and staff for their professionalism. I consider this mother closed and I wish everyone a happy and healthy holiday season. Okay, so she considers the matter closed. She also posted, I do believe, on threads the number one social media platform. This was an exclusive thread,

yes, but this was a response to Jamal Hill's YouTube video. Okay, I'm just trying to, I'm just trying to couple them. Here it is. You are full of lies, Jamal. I know the truth. truth. And yes, it's a shame you didn't have a camera on. We'll explain why she says that in a moment. You should have had an honest conversation with your girlfriend first. Please don't involve me in your affairs. Why does she say, Yawanna to Jamal, why does she write, it's a shame you didn't have a camera on? Because Jamal Hill released like a seven-minute video breakdown of everything that happened, and he leads it off with, I wish I was just wearing a body cam so you could see how crazy this woman started acting. He essentially explained the situation. He went up to

Joanna, she immediately was just like, oh, you've been talking shit, you've been talking shit. He didn't know what she was talking about. He claims that he was like, if I was talking shit, just let me know what I said. And she just, she wouldn't tell him. She said, I'm from Poland, we don't act like that. You've been talking shit. You've been talking shit. And it just continued to escalate from there.

And then security got involved. Now, on the back end of that, Jamal Hill admitted to attempting to sleep with Joanna in November of 23 and he went through all of the DMs between them and yeah he showed how like they were trying to link up at a hookah bar and then the hotel bar and then it ended up being unsuccessful for him so he went home and then after that they had no beef i don't know i'm not i'm not certain why he had to show the dms from 2023 but like there have been several since and they never seemed to have any beef so jamal hill walked away from the situation confused and didn't know didn't know what happened and why Yoana was so upset with him. Who saw that pairing, right? I mean...

I don't think it was a pairing. Jamal did admit in the video. He attempted and was denied. Okay. And so he took his ball and went home. That's what he said. P.T., your thoughts. I read all this, and it was so confusing. I was like, I'm we having a stroke? Like, I was like, I don't know what the fuck is going on here. I don't know why, you know, the message is like, yeah. I don't know why that boy did you do that? But I don't know, dude. It's just kind of hard to rescue the saying, I'm going to, whatever, I want to fuck you up to a woman is tough, you know? I think it was, I'll knock you the fuck out. He says that on.

He says that on camera. Yeah. You can hear it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the OG video. Oh, he admits to it. Like, he's saying in that video, he's like, yeah, I did say this. But the reason I said this was that she was so crazy.

Well, he doubles down the fact that he says that if she had attempted to hurt my girlfriend, I would have not. knocked the fuck out. Now, what is, here's the part that I don't understand. The girlfriend is not there. My, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my he says that yonah came up to him and was just like, where's your girl at? Where's your girl at? Do you think, okay, now, do you think that's because the girl and yuana had a prior beef?

Or is it because, like, hey, we had something and now you've moved on and I'm pissed? He does explain in the video that there was, uh, there was an event that they were at and they were sitting next, seated next to each other and everything was cool and, and, and, and, that's why he explained the attempt to hook up with her, and his manager said to Jamal Hill's girlfriend was like, oh yeah, Jamal tried to sleep with Yohanna. But he said that nothing really came to that, and he had already told his girlfriend that, so she didn't care. Okay. Okay. I'm not going to lie. I'm with Pizzi. I really don't know what is going on. I watched like 30 seconds of Jamal's video in like 25 of Yon. And then I just said I can't. I don't

know what's going on. I tried two written versions just because I thought it was wrong way brain. I mean, Yonnas was written. She just read the caption word for word. Rick, what do you think of this? I mean, tell us. No, I feel like you guys covered it. We handled it really well. The breakdowns make a lot of sense, and I feel well informed now

on this. Okay, okay. Is there anything else we need to know about this right now? Let's sleep a dog's life. Stand by. Okay, for more? Further reporting. Who's covering this? This feels like a Bend to Bain Davis type of story. Is he all over this one? Bain should do a full breakdown.

Someone needs, or that, or the chap from, from Barstool, who has like his head here and there's the videos above him. Oh, Jack Mac, TikTok legend, bro. This feels like a Jack Mack type of breakdown, right? I actually am certain there will be a breakdown at some point from Jack Mack, but if you type in Jamal Hill on Twitter, the second tweet is from one Ben the Bainton. There it is. What does it say?

What does it say? Says he's going to KO Yoanna if he touches his girl at UFC 323. His girl was not at UFC 323, vintage Jamal Hill. That's the part, right? Like, right, so that was the thing. that people were kind of with him. Like, they're like, right, that maybe that gives them some kind of explanation

if his Mrs. is there beside him and she's trying to kill her. And he's like, I'm going to fuck you up if you do this. I don't know if that's justification, but a lot of people thought. But then when it's like, my Mrs.

wasn't there, what, you know? What is happening? Yeah, go ahead, go ahead. So it actually looks like, yeah,

a little bit more intel here. It looks like there was an Instagram story from Jamal Hill's girlfriend. Says, I've been moving all day. Yes, I've seen the news. I usually ignore it,

but in this instant I will address it. It's been somewhat astonishing watching so many outlets speculate on what happened. I'm in the same boat as most of you because I wasn't even at UFC 323. I was at home, drinking wine and watching the fights. Ha ha. So for those who are asking,

what happened between Yohanna and I? Nothing. I wasn't even there. So I'm just as confused as everyone else. However, detailed response video is being released within the next few hours. Oh, wow. Okay. Joaquin Buckley.

That's not in Jeval's detail, though. I just want to let you know, guys, that Joaquin Buckley has waited. I see you here, Walking Buckley. I would like a Walking Buckley Jamal Hill tag team. I feel like that would be against Joanna? No, no, no. I just mean they just seem to be like the same type of vibe as far

as the way they handle these situations. It's like it's always great internet foddered. Yep, she did that shit. I ain't falling for it. That's what Walking Buckley has said. Oh, he released a TikTok where it's edited in with Yohanna's thing. But did what? What is he accusing her out?

I'm not certain. Okay. He says, yep, she did this video. Whoever put this video out. Like, you know. Yeah, who? I just spilled all the, do you guys see that? Sure did.

Uh, we're going to need to isolate that audio that. Oh, ha, ha, ha, ha. Because that is absolutely a new drop. That drop is going to feed family drop. What about that? That's a new drop. First of all, Mike is d'all shit. Frank, what do we do about this?

Can you just, like, lower him? It's killing me. Like, could you imagine someone's trying to have, like, a nice night or walk or something? Think of poor Travis Barker trying to go to sleep to us right now, and Pete's like, Gordon Kardashian, too. Don't sleep. I tried to put the tea here, right here, and it got caught on this stupid thing. You see that right here?

This, right here. You see that? and then I just spilt it. So Crone, ice cream, Crone is going to walk in here and my pants are completely soiled. If peeing your pants is crone? Great to meet you, man. Consider me Miles David.

Yeah, I feel like he doesn't like me already. Why? No, I don't know. I just think everyone doesn't like me. Anything else we need to know about this feud right now? No, I think we're ready to move on. This is what the YouTube title is going to be. Jamal Hill, Rose, all caps,

Yane and Jacek, semi-colon, Aria, Breakdown, even though I've offered absolutely no intelligence. Ariel Helwani breaks down. Jamal Hill, Yawanna Young, J-check, few. Beef, no, beef. I would like to see. I want Pat.

I want Pat in the lab. And Spencer, I need a, I need a, I need a thumbnail of Yawanna and Jamal Hill like this. Face off. Yes, face off. Joaquin Buckley in the middle. Yes. Jamal's girl. This.

Let's leave Jamal's girl out. All right, fine, fine, fine, fine. Quote, like a speak bubble coming out of Joaquin. she did that shit yeah this is going to be a banger what are you thinking what are you thinking 100k views easy easy I'd like to see these two crazy kids like

you know get together mash it out it seems like they've been friendly in the past you know happy birthday exchanges on IG oh for real wow you went that deep into it yeah I mean he was he was showing the evidence oh he was just showing there was no beef okay we had to show meet me at the hookah bar

yeah it's crazy that is a crazy Wow, that is unbelievable. Guys, we do have some breaking news. Actually, several breaking news items. Salita Promotions has just announced that Clarissa Shields going to return to action on February 22nd to defend her undisputed heavyweight title in a rematch against Franshan Cruz de Zeran.

We suspected that that would be the fight after she resigned with Salita and didn't go the MVP route. So that's going to be at Little Caesar's Arena. If this was a non-show moment, someone would have put this in the group chat and Rick would have responded with Pep Guardiola saying, I will be there. I would have put it in the group chat

and then I would have also followed up with I will be there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be... Shout out to Clarissa Shields. Yeah, about to sell out Little Caesars again. Against Franchon. There's a conference call of sorts

with TKO's Mark Shapiro, the president of TKO, and he's talking about some interesting things. I'm following it on Jedi Goodman's thread. No, I can't lie. on his Twitter, on his ex. And some interesting nuggets here, he said that half of the numbered events

will be on CBS, although he didn't say if it was the prelims or the main card bouts. This is all from Jedi, a very good catch there. So perhaps, this is what we've been talking about, are we going to do prelims on TV leading into the subscription main card? That would seem to make the most sense, right? That's how you get the money back.

Have the prelims, have the taste, if you will, the appetizer on the largest platform, and then have the rest, the big stuff, the biggest fights on the subscription OTT. OTT is over the top. I'm not really sure why it's called OTT, to be honest. Anyway, he also says, Mark Shapiro says that there will be no ticket sales for the UFC White House event. He also says that they are planning to launch the first Zoufa boxing event on January 23rd. Why does that seem significant?

First show, UFC, January 24th. So it looks like they're going to go back to back. How much do we want to bet that the first one will be at the apex? Do we think the first one will be at the apex on the 23rd, and then they'll do UFC at T-Mobile? Or do you think they'll do Zoufa boxing at T-Mobile and then UFC at T-Mobile the next night? What do you guys think?

Probably just depends on availability, right? Yeah. I wonder if they'll do the apex or maybe something smaller. Maybe like Fontainebleau. You just wanted to say Fontainebleau. Yeah, you know yourself. I'm like, correct? Well, it depends on when you have that, like, laugh that we all love.

We're not trying to suppress the laugh. This is on Frank, by the way. This is not on you. Is this something like an intervention? This is a hundred percent on Frank. Don't me to change my laugh? I'm going to try a new laugh. No, it feels like there's some sort of like,

there's some sort of calculated effort to suppress you. Even late last night, I got a text from our good friend, Abby Subant, who told me that when you went on a rant and the music played, the music, you know the music that he usually plays when you go on a rant? The music played, but your audio got dropped. Abby caught it.

So that feels like you. How did you feel about that? A Royville producer. Yeah. Talking about you like that, Frank. I mean, I think we all just got tired of listening to you. Wow. Well.

Anyway, here's Mark Shapiro saying that they're going to have two to four super fights a year as far as Zufa boxing is concerned. Let's take a listen to this. I haven't listened yet. We're going to have two to four super fights a year, similar to the Canelo Crawford championship bout.

We had at Allegiant Stadium just a few months ago, from a 70,000 fans on Netflix, where they did incredible numbers. They were thrilled. They want to stay in the fight game business. And we're going to put two to four fights like that together per year. For Netflix or wherever else wants to get into the bidding, with our partners from Saudi Arabia and Sela G.A. And we're going to be paid to do what we do,

which is sell tickets and market and put the fights together and sell media rights. And we've been telling the street that that roughly per fight, we make about $10 million a fight, and I think there's upside there going forward as well because we've proven the bottle. Okay, so this is what we were talking about yesterday. There will be X amount of big shows.

That will be on some sort of big platform. Doesn't have to be CBS or Paramount Plus. I think they would prefer it to be on Netflix because it's the biggest. And then the smaller stuff will be on Paramount Plus. In the past, he has said four superfights. Now it was two to four, which I thought was interesting. I know that they want to do Tyson Fury versus AJ. I know that they want to do that.

And so can they steal AJ away from DeZone again? It's going to be interesting here because, you know, DeZone kind of gave the green light for AJ to fight on Netflix next week. you can make the case that he's their biggest fighter on the platform. I know there are others, of course, Stevenson, Tiofima Lopez fighting on January 31st, and Ryan Garcia is on there too. But AJ is a pretty big deal, especially in the UK. They got a fee for that.

They didn't just give him up to Netflix, but it's going to be interesting. With Netflix getting more and more into sports and becoming more and more powerful, all the other people, there's no doubt about it. Netflix is here, everyone is here, including ESPN. And so not everyone's going to want to play ball and be like, yeah, you could go over there. Look at that L. Duncan story that came out. I'm sure she wanted to stay at ESPN and do the Netflix. Who wouldn't?

That would be the dream scenario. But then the reports came out that she had to pick and she chose Netflix. So it's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out. But that seems to be the Zufa boxing model. Have two to four mega events and then have the rest. And those will be, as he put it, to the highest bidder and then have the rest on P plus, as they say. Here's a good question from HP. He, no, H. Parisius?

Question for Frank, does it bother you that the UFC has become more political, especially on the other side of your own views? Are you still able to enjoy it? Curious, by the way, why did he specifically ask Frank that question? I wonder why. Yeah, no, I don't know. I wonder how they also feel they're comfortable knowing what my political views are. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell us, Frank.

I don't mind it, man. Do your thing. The man seemed very passive aggressive there. the man like if you would have said like i don't mind to do your thing i'd be like okay you don't really mind the fact that you put the man to who who's the man yeah who's the man yeah who's the man you know the man is the entire organization um i i heard that there was um can i mention the group chat or is the group chat which one well there was one sacrosanct i don't know oh are you discussing on the group chat front verse back oh yeah you can talk about that well i was told that ptie did you know about this so so so the control room there's a

front bench and a back bench. Okay. Pete's in our group chat. He knows. Okay, so give the, the viewers at home the shot of the control room if you can to explain. I'm not in this group chat. No, I know. Neither am I, by the way. I'm not in the two. Relax. So, Frank, is in that front corner. Yes. Frank, give us a hand. Can you give us a hand there? Can you

show us a hand, a wave? Is there any? There is Frank. What's that tattoo, Frank? Tattoo. It's a star David. Wow. There's a strong distinction as well as you can see in the elevation. Me and Rick are above. We are We are placed on a pedestal here in the back, overseeing the entire control room. Okay, so that, so you would be backbench, correct?

We are the back bench. Boys in the back, come on. Makes sense. Front bench would be Andy over to the left, on air, Jordan, welcome back, and the mysterious one, Frank there with the hand. I want to know more about that head too, by the way. I feel like that's a little paint-top of Wink C.S.

You know me for what? Almost five years now? I just want to know about it. I have known you, but I didn't ask you. But anyway, so Pizzi, apparently I found out, I found out about this at the holiday party last week. There is a group chat known as what is it called? What is the name of the chat?

Woke front bench. Woke front bench. And that consists of how many people? It's Jordan, Andy, Frank. And we have a bald eagle as the group icon. Okay. And is it a lot of political talk

on that? Mostly political talk. Did you see what happened to Alina Fava? It's only political talk that they Can't say to us. So, like, when the ice commercial air is in the middle of the pay-per-view. Actually, when one of you says something during the show that, like, robs someone the wrong way, the chat starts blowing up. Okay. So the question would be better served to be asked to, like, the whole crew in the front, right?

Yeah, I think so. Why just you? I'm trying to help you out here, Frank. He's the president of the woke front of the group chat. Oh, wow. So with the ice out of slang. This is exclusively about woke topics. Andy and I named it at the same time.

It was kind of ridiculous, actually. We both named it. We had two groups for a second. Wow. Because we had the same idea. Wow. I think what we need to recognize is that Frank is obviously the wokenest, right? Yeah.

And so obviously this person is, this person who asked this question on threads has picked up on the vibe. They understand like where, where they get it. They get it. Before it was woke front bench, it was Mamdani's control room. The crackle It just happened again I think Frank doesn't like Pizzi's political views

and that's actually why he's been sabotaging his audio if I had to just throw out a theory Okay we have to get to He voted for Cuomo Pizzi's been vocal about where he stands Let's just say that We've gone too far into the weeds here

There are many more threads Samuel World asks Why did the UFC say Pantosha hurt his shoulder when we all obviously saw he hurt his elbow instead. I'm not sure. I don't know. Ask Paul on X.

Paul on X said elbow. The rest of us saw a shoulder. That's what I'm thinking. No, honestly, I don't know. I really don't understand that one. Michael McHugh, 25. Do you think we've reached a plateau in the popularity of this sport?

If so, what adjustments can be made to broaden the appeal? If not, what do you think is raising or lowering the brand recognition? I mean, according to Dana White, they're going to get bigger now because they're on Paramount Plus. You know, forget the fact that there

less subscribers, there's less social media, all that stuff. It's still going to be bigger because, maybe because of the deal. I don't know, maybe because of CBS. But CBS, ABC, they didn't really utilize ABC all that much in the ESPN deal. I don't think so. I don't think it has plateaued. I think it's always dependent on who's the biggest star. So you saw when it was Connor and he was a gigantic mainstream star, it felt like the sport

was getting big, big, big, big, big. And now it's at a certain point. I don't think it's plateaued. I really don't think. For as much as we complain about the uninspired marketing or matchmaking or the press conferences, I still feel like the sport is getting bigger. Does anyone feel otherwise? Kind of.

You feel like the sport has plateaued? I think it's approaching that. The rapid growth that it experienced in its hey days. The hey days is in large part because of the ESPN, let's be honest. Well, there was like the 15, 60s. kind of range where it was just like exploding. There were so many big names. There's the ESPN era, the pandemic era, helped a lot.

I do feel like we've probably reached how many fans we're going to get. Like there's probably some out there, but I don't know how many more we're going to be able to recruit for MMA. It does feel like everyone is aware of what it is now and everyone's watched a UFC fight, but it just feels like you're either just like casually watching it when there's a big fight you'll tune in or like you're a diehard. I don't think there's much more ceiling to go. I wonder. So, Champions League, right? PT, would you say Champions League football is the most, other than the World Cup,

other than, like, as far as club football, the most important league, if you will, most important tournament, Champions League? Yeah. Most prestigious? Yeah. So Champions League is on Paramount Plus. I don't feel like Champions League is like a big deal here in America. Do you know what I mean?

Future. Of course. No, I know. Like, Connor, you get what I'm saying? Like, I don't feel like when there's a Champions League game on. Now, granted, it's happening at like three o'clock in the afternoon on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. But that is a, that is a Paramount Plus product. And I don't feel like it got any bigger as a result of being on Paramount or it gets bigger

or it gets more notoriety and attention because it's on Paramount Plus. So is the same thing going to happen here? I don't know. I guess the arguments be made there is, like you said, it's Tuesdays and Wednesdays in the middle of the afternoon here in the States, whereas this is going to be on Saturday nights, and also this is a sport where there is a barrier to entry to watch it in the fact that you either have to buy the pay-per-view, you know, find other means to do it that can be annoying. This, if you only have to flip on CBS, is it going to make it easier? Because you could also just make the argument,

weren't they doing the same thing with ESPN as well? It's just like you, there were prelims where you would be eight o'clock on a Saturday night and they were on ESPN 1. So like it was hitting a mass audience already. Yeah, it's the thing that we talked about when this deal was announced. There's a lot that they're going to miss. When you leave ESPN, you don't get the first take rub, you don't get the TV rub, you don't get the dot-com rub, you don't get the scores table during an NBA playoff game rub. You don't get the scoreboard, like the bug.

That bottom right bug, man, he always talks about how value it was. Every time I saw it, like, if you're passing in the airport or at the gym, you just see it. And it's just like, Brandon Roy Val, Monell Cop this weekend. And it's just like that gets eyes to it. It's there. If we're thinking, sorry, you go, Jordan. But is there, as we just saw, the NFL on CBS on Thanksgiving, obviously, 55 million largest NFL regular season game ever? There's more eyes on the NFL on CBS where they can, and then March Madness, where they can promote this to people who would never watch on CBS.

And at EBC, it was like, you know, we have Oklahoma at noon on college football. Like, they don't have the NFL market that CBS is going to get. And at Parano Plus, every year we looked at the data when I worked there. Every year, Champions League had more viewers every year, year over year, kept growing and growing. So there is, like, the ceiling can get higher for them. It's just how are they going to get there? I don't know if CBS Sports Network is. I'm talking about all the stuff that you get when you're a part of that ESPN orbit, which we were a part of as well.

There's a trickle-down effect from the dot-com, the website and all that stuff we were talking about, which I get what you're saying that there's 50 million people watching a halftime. Sometimes the numbers don't convert. I think the real estate of being on that ticker, being prominently featured on dot com, being prominently featured on their social media, go to their dot com now, go to the menu, and see where MMA is now. It's actually fascinating. You go to ESPN.com right now.

You click on more sports, because it's no longer at the top. I don't know if it changes for everyone, but I go to more sports on my app. And I see MMA, where is it? I don't even see it anymore. So I am logged into my ESPN account and like it, my top thing has UFC on it. Oh, it does? Yeah, but that could be because that's selected as one of my favorite sports. Yeah, you select like your sports and your teams.

Okay, so I am not logged in. I don't know why it always logs me out. My top thing right now is NFL, NBA, MLB, NCAA, NCAA, NBA, NBA. Then I go to more sports. and it's MMA. MMA, it goes boxing F1, golf, MMA, right above G League, NCA women, PLL, which is lacrosse, right? So, like, it gets buried.

I think a lot of the... I think they'll miss that. I think they'll miss that, is my point. I think this is an oversimplification to a certain extent, but I do feel pretty strong, confident in this, that I don't, I think a lot of this stuff is academic. and I think they're in the life cycle. If we were thinking of them as a streamer themselves, right?

If we were thinking of the UFC product or even MMA as a sport in the life cycle of, let's say, Netflix or streaming service, they are not in acquisition anymore. They're now in retention. Like, everybody that's going to know about the UFC knows about the UFC, you're not going to get a ton of new people who are just like, oh, wow, I've never heard of this UFC thing. I'm going to look into that. You're going to have to retain the audience that you have. Now, how many of those casual fans that are watching a Monday night football game are going to convert? There's going to be a number. There's going to be a number, but I don't think it's going to be significant enough to move the needle.

I think the win for Paramount is being able to convert all those existing fans over from ESPN Plus. You get them into your ecosystem. You get them in your Paramount Plus app, and you keep them. You just retain them. The growth will see around the White House card. Maybe you'll see some upticks. But I imagine those people will cancel after a certain amount of time if they remember. The growth period, I don't think, is there for MMA.

unless something drastically changes. And it's definitely not going to be there around the year that they had this year, right? Like they did not have their biggest stars. Let's see what they can do in 2026. But I think they're much more in a retention phase than a growth phase. Okay, let's get a couple more in here. Steve Lowe-Medico says with the UFC moving away from pay-per-view, in your opinion, what do you consider the best consecutive pay-per-view events in history?

I'm thinking 195 or 196? That's a great question. No coincidence, 195 and 196 happen. Greatest Year of All Time, 2016, 195. Headline by? Anyone? James Tehuno? Carlos Condit versus Robbie Lawler, second day of the year,

might have been the best fight of the year. 196, headline by, this one you know. Pizzi, surely you know this one. 196. Pizzi? Am I allowed speaker, yeah? Yeah, yeah. We had Loller and Condon for the record.

I just didn't want to say it. Yeah, 96. Is that Connor and Diaz? Yes, sir. I don't know. No. It is. It is.

Holly Home, Pisha Tate. So, 195, 186 is a great one-two punch. $199-200 was great. I mean, I think you could take any pairing from that year. 0-2-03. O2 was Connor Diaz 2. 194 as well. 114 was McGregor?

Yeah. And Aldo, 194 and 185. Oh, what a time. And then, yeah, wow. 193 was home Rhonda. And we had it good back then, huh? We had a good back then. Yeah, no.

Here's Bo Allen Collins, who says, you have covered the 9 p.m. start time as the new adjustment moving into the Paramount era without pay-per-view. I'm also curious on your thoughts regarding start times in different countries. example UFC 304 Manchester without pay-per-view considerations will we still see fighters having to adjust I think not I think they'll they'll do less of that I think you'll see afternoon cards oh great question here scrap society MMA is Marab still fighter of the year even with the loss this is what I'm pondering this is why you have to tune in January 5th to the hellwani nose

awards what do you think pizzi is he still the fighter of the year is there a case to be made Is there a case to be made? Right? I think he's in the running. Who's in the running? Him, Islam. Islam. Van.

Joshua Van. You see, Van, it's just, for him to win it is almost saying you beat Pantoja in a fight for me. And that didn't happen. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's still a great year. He's fought four times. I have nothing against Van. I have nothing against Van.

But it's just, it's just a bit weird, right? The situation that occurred that made him champion is not. clean at all you know ilia tom aspirin alia not active enough one fight Islam obviously humzut piss off all the the viewers and just pick Tom for the crack you know would you that would be incredible out prayer two and one got the belt back no wait one and one no if it's someone a loss it's marabra right we're not doing yeah yeah yeah all right fine fine fine uh what about freddie comedy who says should max and olivera have to make championship weight for the BMF title.

No. As the BMF historian, G.C., what do you say? I say yes. Respect the silver, yeah. That's what I say. I don't know why you're laughing over there, crackle. Come on. It didn't crackle.

That was good. That was good. James T. Harris 88. After Saturday, there is only one UFC champion who has defended the belt that they currently hold. Valentina, no question, just a fun fact, love the show, shout out to the whole crew. Parity. That is crazy. Zero title defense is for these action belts. Kind of Aspinall, but I know it didn't really, you know, it wasn't clean, but he sort of kept the belt. I would put him in that category too. Here's Mercy in Motion Book. What are the chances

of you being boots on the ground for the White House show? What does fight feast look like for that card? Well, we have to know who's on the card. Or maybe it's a Washington, D.C. inspired fight feast. Is there anything that's. Yeah, it'd have to be locked. There's 47.

47 lives McDonald's, no. That's a good point. Yeah, get DJT 47's McDonald's order. Start with Josh Vans, McDonald's order in the morning, and then go and get 47s. Yeah. That's fine. Maybe we'll be there. Stay tuned.

Here's one from Ben Falks. Falx? Oh, it's folks. It can't be the same one. Yeah, that's what I was shocked. I thought he was a blue sky only guy, but apparently he's a threads guy too. Everyone's on threads. Don't you agree that it's more impressive to be the only one who accurately predicted Yan over Marab than it is to win a silly little thing like the overall 2025 staff pick contest? Well, that's a great segue because I do believe we have the final tally of the staff picks. This was dropped into, oh, there it is. So I do believe that number one Is that Mr. Drake Riggs? Well, don't Rigsie.

Yeah. And then we've got Connor and Chuck. Well, don't. Barlone, Jesse. Frankie. Just to be clear, standalone silver for me. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. Just one behind. I was trying to figure out the breakdown here. And then we've got Pizzi Shaheen and, oh man, in relegated. Does that mean folks and Jackman are in relegation? What does the yellow mean? Yeah, I'm wondering about that.

You know, I don't want to like... It feels like relegation zone. Look, they won't be in next year. How did Ben? I don't know. I was ahead of Ben and now we're tied, but somehow I dropped below. I just, I voiced this maybe a month ago. It's alphabetic.

That Shaheen Al-Shadi is the one in control of this. I'm not loving the highlighting of that section with me and Ben, right? It feels like we've got a first place winner and all of a sudden the eye goes immediately to that slot that has me and Ben. And, you know, also, not for nothing, Shaheen, only one pick ahead of myself, PTO, only two ahead of us. Like, this was neck and neck, but it seems like there's this-

keyword ahead. There's this particular attention paid to that section over there. I just, you know, I just want to wonder, like, if Shaheen should still be in control of this. Oh, wow. I'm not sure that he's capable of doing this. Do we report to Street Briggs now?

We're going to have to have an investigation about this, and I'll let you know what we find, but I'm not happy at the moment. Also, no one's saying, it, but I need to own up to it. I completely bottled this. I mean, around like August, that was like four or five picks ahead. I completely

bottled this. Arsenal job. It's tough, yeah. Arsenal less. Just, you know, just be happy you didn't get the yellow box of death. I was never going to get the yellow box. Let's be serious. I was never going to nobody should. I mean, it doesn't make sense. You know, there's first, second. It should. So, something needs to be done about PTs.

You'll talk about. Mike, your internet. It's just, it's a mess. attitude, right? It's just a mess of a situation. Going to get to more questions on the back end. Didn't get to as many as I would have liked because they were so good. But some great stuff. I see one here again to Frank about the audio, which seems apropos. So we'll get to those back in. For now, let's get to our guest. And let us get to her first guest of the day she was victorious in her first fight in about a year and a half, almost two years, to be exact.

A big win for her, an emotional win for her. She is on a role as of late. Her current winning streak, seven is. is tied with Natalia Silva for the longest active in the division. It's also joint second longest in UFC women's flyweight history. And currently, she is joint second for most wins in UFC flyweight history, nine. She is the one and only Macy Barber who picked up a big win over Karin Silva on Saturday via unanimous decision. She's kind enough to join us right here now. Hello, Macy.

How are you? Hi, I'm good. Ariel. How are you? I'm doing great. Congratulations on the win. Thank you. There's a delay. Can you hear me okay? I don't know if there's a delay on my end or your end? No, I can hear you. Okay.

All right, all right. It's like you're like a wartime correspondent where you're on like a news channel. There's like a five second delay in between question and answer, but we shall fight through it. You were very emotional after the fight. A couple of days later, how are you feeling about what you accomplished? I know you've been a lot, you've been through a lot over the last year and a half. that has been well documented, the health issues, the fight withdrawals, to get back in there, get a win, get a dominant win over a great fighter.

What was that like for you? Oh, I feel great. It was, it was a long camp. It was a lot of, you know, it was just one camp. It was, you know, a couple of them. And it was just, you know, it was a lot of work, not just on my end. It was a lot of work on the coaches end. It was a lot of work on, you know, my boyfriend.

and it's just a lot of emotions for all of us. And I just wanted to make all of us proud. I wanted to show the effort that not just myself, but everyone put in. And so it felt really good to just go out there and be able to perform and share that win with everybody. You know, and not just even the wind. It was just be able to go out there

and do what we've all set out to, you know, do, which is fight because we've been training for so long, you know, and it just felt really good. Was there ever a point where you thought you may never get back to this moment? No, I had faith, you know, and I know that God has a purpose for my life and he has a plan for me. And I do know that I'm going to be able to continue my dream and my goals. And I'm very stubborn and very determined. So I just knew that, you know, the UFC has the best people in place.

and they are also helping me a lot. And so I do believe that, you know, they were going to help me get to where I needed to be. And if we just, you know, stay persistent, we were going to be able to make it happen. How was the week in Vegas? Were there nerves like, okay, once you got past this, once you got past the way-ins,

what you got to fight? And were there little markers that you were starting to feel a little bit more relieved about that this was going to come to fruition and that, you know, nothing that happened in the past would pop up again. Um, you know, I don't know if I really had nerves as far as that goes, just because, um, you know, once the UFC helped me get with the best doctors and everything, as far as, you know, all the stuff that happened previously, um, we took care of it all, you know, so it wasn't like, oh, is it going to happen again? Is it going to be something that we have to deal with again? It was taken care of and we didn't deal with it in camp. We didn't deal with it in training. We didn't deal with it during five week and we didn't deal with it. with it during the fight. And so it wasn't something like, oh, I have to get through the weight cut and,

you know, I'll be good. I wasn't, oh, I have to get through this and I'll be good. It was, I'm good. And now I get to go through the weight cut and now I get to go through the fight, you know, so it wasn't something where I was like worried, you know, of, oh, I have to go through this piece, this piece, this piece. It was just, I'm good. And I did have several interviews throughout the week where they were asking me that. And I was like, look, I'm healthy. And the UFC got me with the best doctors and I put in the work and we're here and I would not be here if I wasn't healthy, you know, like I'm good and I am ready to perform and I know that that is something that a lot of people had a lot of care obviously for my health and my well-being and I appreciate that a lot

but also it did get a little bit like, ah, stop asking me this because I just want to like let it be in the past and I just want to go out and enjoy this moment. But I also appreciated all of the people that were caring about, you know, my health and well-being. In the aftermath, in the post-fight interview with Joe Rogan in the Post-Fight press conference, you were obviously very emotional. Were you emotional throughout the whole process, or was that you finally being able to release and get it all out there, stuff that maybe you were suppressing? A little bit of both.

There were several interviews that I did throughout the week where they were asking me. Um, I, I will admit, I was not a pleasant person to be around this camp. Like, I was not, um, fun to be around. I was very angry. I was very aggressive. Um, I was very, like, almost like bitter, uh, in a way. Like, I was, um, I just wanted to make it to the fight, you know, like, even some of my training partners, like, if we were going, you know, like a little bit, um, like if I was worried that something was going to happen, um, like, I was worried that something was going to happen. where I would like get hurt you know I was like oh I just have to make it to the fight and so I definitely would like get a little bit more on like edge um but then on you know like some of the interviews I was like I was more emotional because I was just like man I put all of my training partners and all the coaches through literal hell because of how um just how like how much pent up aggression and and I think anger that I had inside of me from like having so many camps and not being able to fight and just wanting to make everyone happy and want everyone to be

proud. And I'm like, I just got to get there. I just got to get there. Like I have so much energy inside of me that I just want to let it out, you know? And I couldn't let it out yet, not until the fight. And so I think I kept it all inside and I released it at little times at the wrong moment on the training partners and on the coaches. And so I definitely felt like they don't deserve that as people. And so I was like, I feel bad, you know, as like a person. But at the end of the day, like they mean so much to me. And I would not be where I am without them.

And so during those interviews and during the fight week, I got very emotional because it's not just a me thing. Like this whole thing and the reason why I'm here, it's not just me. It's all of them. You know, I wouldn't be here without Oscar. I wouldn't be here without Gila. I wouldn't be here without Cody. I wouldn't be here without Tina.

I wouldn't be here without all of the people that have helped me get to where I am and helping me, you know, get to this point. And so there was a lot of emotions in all of those interviews and then also after the fight. It feels like an 800-pound gorilla has been taken off your shoulders. Like, I feel like you're probably very relieved right now on this Tuesday. Yeah, I did say that, too. I was like, I am going to be a much, much happier person, much, like, nicer, lighter feeling person than I was before. And has that happened?

Yeah, I think so. I don't know. I'll have to ask everyone else around me. I'm like, am I nicer, because I think I am. you did you know it was a little dicey there in the fight especially with the the illegal shots um how how are you feeling now any issues with what you had to go through in the fight um you know we watched it back several times and i was like oh i didn't realize i was wobbly but yeah it was a little weird uh but i mean it happens and and things happen i mean we do get

in the cage and we do sign a line saying that you know anything can happen so what happened happened and I had to fight through it I did I did watch the fight back and when I watched it back I was like yep I did I do remember taking her down because I know I needed to like clear my head a lot because I did not feel good at all um but I got it done and and that's what I needed to do but it was a good fight and and I'm very happy with that win yeah you handled it very well in the aftermath essentially saying we get hit so no big deal but um there does continue to be a problem where it seems like people people aren't getting penalized for throwing and landing illegal strikes. It's more warnings. That would have been a prime example of one where it seemed like a point should have been taken away, right? I agree completely. Yeah. Watching it back, I was a little confused because in the back when we were warming up,

there was so much conversation about like fingers, you know, like how, oh, if your fingers are up versus your fingers are down, like you get a hard warning in the back of like, you know, if you so are going to poke someone in the eye, your first warning is in the back. And, you know, if you accidentally poke someone in the eye, instantly you get a point taken away. But an eye poke is nothing compared to getting illegally kicked in the head, in my opinion. You know, like having someone kick you in the head when you're a downed opponent, I think that that's a significantly more impactful strike than getting an eye poke. But also, I haven't been poked in the eye in a fight.

so I couldn't, you know, necessarily speak on that, I guess. There's other people that have been poked in the eye on the fight. Either way, I think that both of those things are, you know, illegal for a reason because the whole point of an illegal upkick or an eye poke are, even though they are at times, an eye poke is accidental. The intention is to change the position of the fight, you know? Like, I believe that her intention of throwing that kick when she was on the ground is to get up, you know? And so if your intention is to throw the kick in order to get up off the ground, then either put her back down on the ground and take a point or, you know, but instead it was like, oh, we're going to reset you guys both on the feet and we're not going to take a point.

So it's a little bit frustrating watching it back, but also I still won unanimous decision and I still dominated that fight. So it is what it is, but I think that that was a, it was a big mistake on Mark Smith end. And I was a little bit frustrated because my coach was telling me before he was like, this is a great ref, this is a great ref. And now that I had it happen, I'm like, man, that was not a great ref. That was terrible. Yes. I'm like, I don't want him, rep in my fights.

You're going to let someone upkick me and then tell me that was not a hard, hard blow. stop at like stop like relax like what the heck like that was that was a hard blow yes watching it back i'm like i was definitely wobbled yeah that that was a crazy thing to hear also um some people thought his stoppage in the tatura tyra brandom renal fight was a little premature i didn't think so but it seemed like he had a tough night at the office um i want to ask you about how you respond now because you have been out for 21 or so months you're on this great winning streak you're one of the best flyways to the world, but as you know, it's a what have you done for me lately type of game. So I would imagine part of you wants to get back in there and make up for lost

time, but you just went through a 50-minute fight and you got, you know, illegally hit in the head and all that stuff. And so what are you feeling as far as how quickly? There's some big fights coming up at 125. I thought maybe you versus Natalia Silva would have made a lot of sense, but now she's been booked against Rose since Alexa pulled out. What are you thinking as far as timeline and who makes sense next to get into that prime spot at 125? Yeah, I mean, I, Um, given that I fought, you know, it had such, or sorry, words are hard, apparently, um, given that I had such a long layoff, um, I was like, I want a fast turnaround. I don't want to wait, you know, everything's coming out healthy, you know, aside from the kick to the head, I just wanted to make sure, you know, Dr. Davidson was like, hey, we want to make sure that your head's good. Everything's cleared. Um, so we are, you know, just double checking everything. Obviously, they sent me in for some scans, made sure everything was good. Um, and, um, and, And as long as everything comes back, body-wise, healthy, I want to find as soon as possible. And what that looks like, you know, we just got to see, you know, what Mick and Dana and Hunter want and who is available, you know, because, again, injuries and matchups.

And at the top, I mean, there's only so many of us. So we'll just have to see who's available and what makes sense as far as matchup-wise. Do you have a preference? I want the belt, so you know what I want, and whoever's in the way is going to get taken out. Do you have a preference? I don't have a preference other than I want to take out whoever's in the way of getting the belt. And also, you guys have already known I've been calling for my rematch for a while against Alexo Grasso. So I would love to take that one out.

And then, I mean, if not, then I just want a title shot. That would make a lot of sense, especially with her not booked anymore. By the way, were you surprised Valentina B. Jung, Wei Li that convincingly? To be honest, I'm not surprised because I was kind of like, you know, it'll be interesting to see if Wei Li is big enough. But also I wasn't sure if, you know, because Valentina doesn't walk around that huge. She doesn't have a big cut from my understanding. So I wasn't quite sure if how that would go.

But I didn't, I didn't think it would be, you know, I didn't see it being a super exciting fight, if I was, if I'm honest. I just didn't think it was going to be like an amazing fight, but I definitely, I'm not shocked by the outcome. I mean, Valentina is a great fighter, but it was, I wasn't really impressed. Okay, why not? It just, I think that, I think that the size difference and then also it just was like, Like, I think there was a lot more hype for what it ended up being, you know. I thought that it was that way Lee was going to bring a lot more than she did.

And I think that I just thought that there was going to be, you know, like a solid finish. I thought it was going to be like a lot more to that fight than just, you know, some takedowns and like just holding her and dominating her. But also that's what Valentina does well. You know, Valentina is not just going to go out there and like do anything unnecessary. know she's not a that kind of fighter that's like she's smart so she's going to go out and do what she needs to do to win and that's all she needs to do she is so dominant and especially as of late but she is receiving some flack for you know the the the maybe lack of sizzle to her stake if you will the lack of excitement surrounding her fights do you think that that is warranted

do you feel like it is fair to to be critical of the performances as of late I mean, she's a champion. She doesn't have to go out and get the belt. She has to defend her belt. Now, does that necessarily make the UFC happy? I don't know. I don't think that that's what the UFC really wants as far as fighters go. I think the UFC likes to have people that go out for finishes.

I think they want girls that, and fighters, not just girls, fighters that go out and fight for finishes. that's what they want, you know. And that's what I've always tried to strive for. And that's, you know, what I feel like I try for my style. And that's why I get so frustrated when I don't get finishes. So I think that it's kind of like a double, double-sided answer. Yes, I think what Valentina is doing is smart.

She's making her paycheck and she's not getting hurt. And she's doing her job. She's winning. That's what she's doing. She's defending her belt. She's doing all the things she needs to do. Is it what the UFC necessary? is looking for as far as like someone who's like an exciting fighter dominant like dominant

wins and and fan fan explosive finishes you know i don't think that that's what it you know that's not what it is but um that's why i think it's a double answer when when you watch her fight now do you watch it through the lens of like this is what i would do if i was in there against her and this is how i could beat her and these are the holes are you starting to look at her through that perspective because you're so close I watch it through a lens of yeah how how are we going to beat her and

how is like you know what are the holes and I watch it through a lens of what do we need to do to beat her but I don't necessarily watch it and I watched it also through a lens of you know respect for the fact that she's been able to do what she's been able to do but I don't

watch it through a lens of oh wow she's incredible incredible and like that was an exciting fight to watch this time next year have you fought for a belt yes have you won the belt yes how soon do you think that happens definitely by this time next year okay like i mean do you think it happens by the summer do you think it's possibly it's your next fight like what are you feeling you know what i would love to see i would love to see myself have a quick turnaround and then fight for the belt on the white house card okay

that's the dream that's the plan okay that's the plan that's the plan by the way the orange fingernails what does that represent they're actually yellow oh i'm colorblind damn it and then yeah they just have a reflection and then they say 15 and 2 so i put my record my next record on there oh wow okay and then they say 323 on them and that's an area code what is 323 oh you have c 3223 damn it i thought it was an area. Yes, of course. 323. That's right. That's right. That's right. Yeah, I botched that. The record I got. The record I got. Do you do that yourself? No, I wouldn't got them done. Okay. A very exciting time. Paramount Plus, all this stuff. It feels like a good time to be involved in the sport. It feels like a good time for you to be back, healthy. I know that recently, and you posted about this heartbreaking stuff regarding former coach of yours, Duke Rufus. How much was he on your mind and heart as you were fighting on Saturday? and doing what you did. You know, here's the post here of you paying tribute to him.

It was shocking. It was tragic. No one saw it coming. How much were you thinking about him? You know, it was when I found out that he had passed away, it was kind of a surreal, surreal thing to hear. And it was actually really upsetting. Duke was a very impactful person. he taught me a lot uh he was a very intense person um and for like the people they didn't know

him like he was a he was a lot of people liked him and a lot of people acted like they didn't like him but deep down i knew that they liked him because he he really made you think about like you know what you really wanted and and what you really like you know what you wanted to accomplish and and he made you a better person um and i know that there's a lot of a lot of people that he impacted on their life. And I definitely remember I was, I had just thought about how there was one of the, I was thinking about him actually when I was warming up.

I don't remember the exact like thing that we were doing, but there's something that happened during my warm up. And I was like, oh yeah, I did this. I did this with Duke. Oh, it was not exactly like the perfect memory. but um we always get drunk this is not this is not a great tribute to do but um duke stood up for me when they went to drug test me and um they tried to make me chuck water and i remember duke being like look if you ever don't want to do something you don't have to do it it doesn't matter who you're

fighting for what you're doing doesn't matter how many times they tell you you don't have to do it because they wanted me to drink a bunch of water before the fight and um it was whoever was drug testing at the time and and i remember i was like feeling like i was like oh i have to do the drug test i have to do the drug test um and i felt bad because i was like i hadn't i didn't have to pee and and because i had just cut weight and i was like oh no i have to drink water otherwise i'm not going to be able to drug test and i can't fight and he was like look you don't have to do anything for anyone they will wait for you you are the best in the world like they will wait and and it was like oh like you know like that that meant a lot and i know that's

just you know something as simple as like drinking water and having to go pee for someone but like those kind of things mean a lot and it's just like a mentality that he teaches you of like you know you don't have to do anything for anyone and and he just carried that everywhere he went whether it was something as simple as drinking water and going pee or training to punch and beat someone up or anything. And so it did remind me because they came in a drug to test me this past time. And I was like, man, I really don't have to pee. And it reminded me. And I told them that story. And I was like, oh, yeah, Duke taught me that. I was like, if I have to make you guys wait, I have to make you guys wait. But yeah, Duke had a lot of things that little things that he taught me. You know,

He used to play the same song every time we would hit pads. And it always made me laugh because I'm like, this is not it. But what was the song? It made me smile. It was called I Like It by Cardi B. Okay. And it always made me laugh because I'm like, what is this? But he would always sing it and he would always laugh.

And it was so funny. He would put it on right before he'd hit pads and he'd be like, this is the song. Like, this is it. Like, let's go. and it would crack me up but he was just you know he was an intense person and he just cared a lot he cared a lot about the fighters and and like I said like a lot of people you know would would have good things to say or not so great things to say about him but at the end of the day it was always

because deep down they knew he cared a lot and that's that is true you know and so I just hope that you know wherever duke is up there he's enjoying heaven and he's looking down and he's looking down and just, you know, smiling down on everybody and he's proud of all of the fighters and the athletes and the people that he, you know, touched, you know, in his life and, you know, and all of the lives that he impacted and I just hope that we're making them proud. I would say that was a tremendous tribute to Duke.

Well done. Thank you, Macy. Thank you for sharing that. Appreciate it very much. Congratulations. Welcome back. It was so great to see you back. Great performance and looking forward to what's next for you.

Happy holidays. Thanks for stopping. It seems like you pulled over on the side of the road over there, so thank you for doing that. Yeah, my boyfriend pulled over so you don't lose service. Well, thank you to him as well. Be safe out there and appreciate your time as always. Thank you. All right, there she is.

Macy Barber, kind enough to join us in a great tribute to the late great Duke Rufus. She was saying, as she was telling that story, she was saying, oh, that's not a great tribute. But I think that that's actually the perfect tribute to someone who has to fight for their fighters, who has to prop them on. up, has to instill confidence, say, you're the best, you're the man, you're the woman, you're the one that they have to wait for. I love that. And that does seem to mesh with everything that I've heard and seen regarding Duke and how much his fighters love being a part of his team, his stable, his gym. So hopefully he is somewhere looking down and very proud of his fighters,

proud of Macy, proud of all of those who are still flying the Rufus Sport flag. In a couple of moments. We're going to be joined by Mansour Abdul Malik, who had a great win on Saturday as well. A fascinating guy. I've not spoken to him before, but I'm very much looking forward to this. 9-0-1 as an MMA fighter, 3-0-1 in the UFC, also has a win in the contender series, August of 2024. He won via standing guillotine in 69 seconds on Saturday. Round one beat Antonio Tricoli, biggest favorite on the card. His seventh career first round stop. He actually has four career finishes at a hundred seconds or less. This man gets it done.

But he's a very interesting and like I said introspective and dare I say somewhat intense individual as well. In fact, G.C. went through some tweets of his. There's a series of tweets that we have. Do we have the one that it's like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I think from, yeah, from July. Here's a taste. It's free to dream.

Focus comes when you think of yourself less as a person, but more as a concept slash idea. Revision of the self has been the point all along, the never-ending process. Don't limit yourself by placing limits on yourself, now or never. This is just like, and not all on the same day, but I find it all to be very interesting. And if you paid attention to his pre-fight media content, his post-fight content, well, all really, really smart, like I said, thoughtful, introspective, deep stuff, intense as well. I appreciate that type of character, and I'm very excited to talk to him right here and now on the program. I do believe that he is joining us. There he is. Hello, Mansour. How are

you? I'm absolutely amazing. If I can take a moment and just express my gratitude, I've been watching you since I was a teenager, all the old days, the MMA hour, the long, long episodes. This is a dream come true to be on this interview right here with you today. And I'm very, very grateful and appreciative. Well, that means a lot to me. So thank you very much. I do feel a tad old when you say you've been watching me since high school. I still kind of feel like a youngster, but that really means a lot. And I appreciate that. And that speaks to what I was just saying. You're a very thoughtful person, appreciative, introspective. I love that about you. And I love the way you conduct yourself. So shout out to you. Kudos to you on everything that you're

building right now. And congratulations on the win. Standing guillotine, baby, in just 69 seconds. you're very happy and proud of what you did on Saturday. Yes, don't be silly, jump to gilly. I'm very, very happy. I'm very thankful and very grateful. But I'm just elated with the entire experience, the last pay-per-view of the year, the entire company, every single person,

not just me, not just the fighter, but every single person that worked to make that card the way it was, the other fighters, being on the card with those champions and with those contenders and with those other people that are already established fighters in the ways that they all,

are. It's beautiful, man. And it's really just another dream come true. My life is just daily. Dreams coming true. But then those dreams keep on forming. So you seem to be someone who's very grateful and appreciative for the road that you're on, for everything that you're doing. And also a bit of an old soul, and I'll get to more on that in a moment. But the fact that you were on your first numbered event, which just so happened to be the final UFC on ESPN pay-per-view, the final UFC pay-per-view, at least for now, to be on a card like that with some of those big names, T-Mobile, not a fight night. I know those were great.

You're happy to be on those cards. But this, you know, there's some prestige involved in those numbered events. Did that mean anything a little bit more to you? Absolutely. Absolutely. It's, it's reassurance. It's the UFC investing in me, putting me on this card, putting me in this position, putting me on the last paper view of the year.

And I love those spots. I love those moments. It's like people are asking me questions. Do you feel any pressure on your shoulders? Okay, you're undefeated. You're in this position. You're on the last paper of the year. This, this, this. I swear, don't feel any of it. I literally just feel happy. Of course, there's a bunch of other feelings that I probably couldn't describe because they're just so intense. But I feel so happy. I'm in there doing what I love to do. I want to wipe my feet on that cage floor. Look up at the lights. Take a deep breath, smile and do what I enjoy. There's no pressure at all. The result is the result. And the result was beautiful. Thank God. But I'm happy, man. So those things. things just keep on happening and they'll continue to happen in even bigger ways. Okay, so now I'm interested about those emotions that you say are intense and hard to describe. Can you try to describe them for me?

If I were to describe them, it would be on both sides of the spectrum. There's really, really, really happy. And then there's like an emptiness, a total void. There's nothing. It's almost like when people create different personalities or different ideas about themselves when they go into different situations of their lives. When I compete, it's something else, man. It's total happiness, right?

But then I just feel so empty. Not in a bad way. There's no negative connotation, but I just feel so empty. I feel so void of everything else. Nothing else matters. There's no future. There's no past. And then the present just feels serene.

In that moment is just beautiful. It's like I can just, I know every single thing. about myself that I've always wanted to know. But then I don't know anything. It's like I'm nameless in there. There's no me. There's no mansore. There's no family. There's no teammates or coaches. There's no one. It's literally just this idea of me, all the emotions that I'm feeling and then my actions. And then I go off of that man. I'm just flying inside that cage. Okay, so this reminds me of a tweet from a few months ago. You tweeted, I find extreme fulfillment within the void of myself.

Is that what you're referring to here when you tweeted this a couple months ago? Absolutely. Absolutely. That's exactly what I'm speaking about. Man. And so where does this come from? Where did you, like, were you always this way?

This thoughtfulness, talking about this was such intensity. Were you always like this? As a kid as well, is just something that has developed over time? I definitely feel like I was like that as a kid, but I've learned to verbalize it and articulate it in different ways as I've been matured and become a young man. But I always have felt thoughtful like this. I always knew that I felt a lot inside of my chest.

I always dreamt. I was always visualizing stuff. I was always thinking in class I wasn't even there. There were notes on the board. There were notes on the prompt and everything. And everyone else is talking. The teacher is talking. I'm somewhere else.

I'm writing goals down in a notebook over and over and over again 51 times because 50 is not enough. I'm just somewhere else, man. I've always just been in my own mind. in my own thoughts, but now they've just articulated themselves into my actions, and it's beautiful now. And then I take a lot of inspiration from Rory McDonald. That's my favorite fighter ever. Wow, wow, wow, wow, why the Red King?

We have Rory featured right here. This is Rory right here, the man. We love Rory, but I don't hear that often, especially from the youngsters. Why Rory? What can I say? What can I say? Not only as a fighter, but the way that he described things

In those old interviews, when he was coming up, his rise, and then even when he made his debut, way before his debut, way before the UFC, the ways that he articulated himself and the ways that he expressed himself, there was no consideration about the opinions of others. It was what was on his mind, the things that people would say today and they would say things are corny or cringy or too intense or not intense enough, whatever, there was none of that. He was so true to himself. and then when he got inside of that cage, the look that he had in his eyes, that's the void that I'm speaking about. That's one of the most specific personifications of the void that I'm speaking about, that emptiness. But it's like, it's not empty in a bad way. It's empty focus. It's empty being present. It's empty in your truest self. And it's beautiful, man. It's absolutely beautiful. So I draw a lot of inspiration from him. I'm not him. I know I'm not him on

myself, but I draw a lot of inspiration from him, not only as a fighter, but as a person. I met him one time, one time before. This was a long, long time ago. Okay. I was a training partner for Cesar, Moutante Ferreira in the PFL, and then he was in the cage, and it was a beautiful, beautiful meeting. Very, very respectful. I shook his hand. It was amazing, man, but that's my favorite fighter ever, and I draw so much inspiration from him. Did you tell him in that brief encounter, how you felt about him? Oh, man, that was probably one of the only times I was star-struck. I was just, I was mumbling over

my words are saying hello, but it was really, really nice. If I got to meet him again, I'd love to train with him. I would love to train with him. But maybe one day, maybe one. Yeah, and he's back training these days. He's looking like he's in great shape, mentally, physically, so I would love that for you as well. I heard you say, which also was very fascinating why I said you were an old soul, I heard you

say that in preparation for your fights, you like to watch old countdowns, not the new stuff, like old school stuff. How old school do you go and why do you do this? I go as old as they get, man. that grainy, that grainy looking visual, I make sure the, it's not, what is it, 720P on, on YouTube or whatever, I make sure the resolution is a little bit lower. It just has a different feeling to it, man. It's nostalgic and it's beautiful.

And it just hits me in my heart. No matter if I've watched it one time, 20 times, or 30 times, it's something special about rewashing those things and feeling the feeling, not just watching them for recreation, but I'm someone that's very, very big on vibes. and I do things that make me feel good, I do things that make me feel good emotions and those good emotions flow into training. They flow into how I speak to other people and how I interact with other people and how kind I am to other people, even when I'm cutting weight or even when things are difficult in training or difficult in life or whatever. But all of those good things that I sort of

hold to me and I don't push it away, all those good things that I pull to me are only a benefit, man, but I love watching those old countdowns, old embedded, old previews of fights, old interviews, all of your interviews with fighters. I love it, man, and it's just so nostalgic, and it just takes me back. It reinforces the dream. I'm here now, and a lot of times I don't really smell the roses because I'm just going, but I'll take myself back. I'll take a step back.

I'll just rethink about those times when my father was giving me mock interviews with the TV remote, and I'm here now, man. And it's absolutely beautiful. Wow. How old are you when your father was doing that? 11, 12 years old, maybe even a little bit younger than I. I remember we would, even when we didn't have money like that, we would be watching paper views no matter what.

We'd always find a way to watch the pay-per-view. It would just be me and him. And it was beautiful, man. I can just remember so many memories of training and those mock interviews and all these questions that he would ask me. And then I would get irritated and be like, oh, well, we'll live. this isn't really going to happen. Like, what do you mean about?

Now, I'd be like, relax. These things are going to happen. So I'm preparing you now. Be a little bit serious with us. I took it serious and lo and behold, look where I am now. Look at you now. That is unbelievable. So was the dream even when you were 11 or so to make it to the UFC?

The earliest dreams I ever had of anything. I just wanted to be a ninja. When I was seven years old, I just wanted to be a ninja. I just wanted to be cool. I just wanted to do different martial. arts movements and I wanted to know how to fight. After that, I got into Jiu-Jitsu. I got to Muay Thai and I got into Judo and I had dreams of being in the Olympics. Then the dreams changed a little bit when I started wrestling, especially when schools involved. The focus

became a little bit more intense when I was in middle school and when I was in high school. And then the focus was always being in the UFC. Even when I wrestled, I never considered myself a wrestler. And I wrestled from middle school all the way up until college. But I was never a wrestler, man. I was never a wrestler. My mind was always just somewhere else. I remember being in class and being in lectures and being in practice and I'd be in one world. But then I'd see the UFC and I'd see all the other promotions that I was watching when I was younger. And I would see all the progression of all the martial arts and seeing how they're talking about the new age of fighters are coming. And I'm like, I am the new age. But then I'm wrestling. And I'm not able to exhibit my

skills and present myself in that way because I'm sort of like in this world right now, learning this craft. But then I was like, you know, it's time. At one point in college, I was like, it's time. I'm going to move away from this. I cannot let these people do what I want to do, not in a jealous way or a better way. But like, this is me. This is me.

I see so many people coming from other disciplines and other things and it's beautiful. And I'm very, very happy for them. But I'm like, you know, I have been crafted for this. this is me. I am this. I'm not a wrestler. I'm not, I'm a martial artist. True, true, true and full. But also, I don't even feel like a martial artist, man. I'm somewhere, I'm somewhere up here. I just think a lot. Gosh, man, you are a gym. You are a gem. You talk about, by the way, you talk about wanting to be a ninja turtle when you're seven years old or so, and then wouldn't you know it? You end up, where? University of Maryland, whose mascot is what? A terrapin? A turban? A turt.

And what do they play at the games? What do they play at those games? Look at young, the months who are there. What do they play? They play the Ninja Turtle theme song at some of those basketball games, right? In football games. So it all came together for you.

That young man right there, could he ever imagine that everything would turn out this way? Were you always of the belief that it would turn out the way in which you want? Or were there highs and lows? Were there times where you doubt it? Never.

Never in my life. Never in my life have I doubted this dream. Even times where times were tough And I was like, you know, this is difficult. This is difficult. Like the attainability of this is up here. There was never a doubt in my mind. As long as I had breath in my body, as long as my heart was beating, as long as I was

able to move some part of my body, just enough to sweat and considerate training, I knew that I was going to be in this position. There was just something within me that always knew that this was going to happen. I swear, I swear, man. And I just never let it. go. I couldn't let it go even if I tried. I saw you, you painted a picture that when you're in the buildup to a fight training camp, you don't like to interact with people, you'll go to the supermarket, you'll buy what you need to buy, you come home, you don't want to talk to anyone, you want to be at

home, close the blinds, light a candle, watch some old countdowns, and just be with your thoughts. Can you describe this scene for me? Can you paint this picture? And why does it have to be so intense? Sometimes it's good to let loose and interact with people and think about other things. Why are you so steadfast and so like singularly focused on this dream of yours? If I could repaint it for you, it's exactly that. It's, it's quiet. I'm drinking my coffee. I'm going to train.

I'm even, the only things that I would speak with things, they'll be positive. But it's quick and it's short-lived. I wouldn't even have too many conversations with myself leading up to a fight. I'm in and I'm out if I have to go get groceries. If I go get some food somewhere, I'm in and out. It's a nod. It's a good firm handshake. I'm gone. I'm the king of the Irish goodbye. I love it. I love just being by myself. I love being

quiet. I love being peaceful. And I love literally having those internal conversations in my head and having everything else so silent around me that I can focus on those things and that I can use those things for what they're useful for. And then what's not useful, I can push it away. Because as you know, in our minds, it's crazy. You get the good and the bad. There's no filtering of So I just love being in that spot, man. But that's just not a thing that happens with fights. That's 24-7-365. I love being alone.

I love the idea when people speak about, oh, well, you know, you can't do this so much. You know, it's kind of unhealthy. You shouldn't train this much. You shouldn't be focused on this so much. I love the idea of going in the complete opposite direction with total passion, complete and utter obsession. I love it. What else is there? Do something to the point where it's going to kill you. We're all going to die anyway, my brother. So why not dedicate yourself to something truly and fully, totally and completely with no regard for anything else? Of course be healthy

and of course be smart and all that other stuff. But like do it with passion, man. Do it with passion. What you're involved in, make a decision, commit, and do it until you can't anymore. That's it. And then leave the game for someone else. Leave the game for someone else to craft their story and to beautify their lives. But while I'm here, I'm going to set this thing on fire to the best of my ability. I'm going to go until I can't walk anymore. I love it. I love it so much. But I'm going to be smart. I'm going to be smart. And I know that maturity definitely has to come into play a few times. Of course, you got to rest when you're training that amount and all that stuff. But in the broad scheme of things, I am in this. I am in this right now. So I'm going to do this

so much to where it just bothers me. And then I'm going to do it some more. I love it. You can't beat the man that's obsessed. You cannot. You can't beat the man that doesn't give up. You can't beat the man that's doing this 24-7, 365, when he doesn't want to, when he wants to. And then when he gets the time to get inside that cage, he's let off the leash. So I love it. What about significant other friends, just people outside of, you don't have any escape? I don't want any escape. If anything, I just like, I lock a door inside of my mind.

Because that's like an interesting thing. Because number one, I'm one of 10 children. So I essentially have many. friends. I have many friends. They're facetime away. I can face time my father. I can give them a good hug when he comes to my fights. It's beautiful. So that's all I need. That quick 30 seconds of affection and love is all a man like me needs. Other than that, there's nothing else. I love locking that door. There's nothing else. I love building that intensity and that pressure inside of yourself that want and that desire and that need for people to be around you

and companion. I'm weird. That people in companionship and all that stuff, I love. I love. love for that to be right on the other side of the door and then blocking it off willingly on my own will, on my own decision and saying, no, I don't want those things right now. Those are out there. This is what I'm focused on. I love for those things to be present, but for me to make the decision inside of myself to say, I'm going to push those things to the side right now. That's, that's beautiful to me because it's like this takes a certain amount of internal strength. This takes something that people will not see unless I speak about it on an interview like this. People can't see those things. People don't

know about those things. So when you express it and when you speak about it, it's beautiful. And it just adds to your story. But that's just one thing that I push to the side. And I really don't have a want or desire for it. Man, I'm just, I love myself. I love my family. I love my teammates. I love my coach Eric Nixick. I love the people that give to me and I want to give to them in the exact same ways, if not more. I love being kind to people. I love expressing my love and my my like for people. I swear I love it so much. I love it so much to the point where it makes me feel bad. I'm like, am I expressing this because I like the way it feels when I express it or am I expressing it because I like their company and I appreciate them as a person? So I go through those

internal battles too because I just love those things so much. So I have a very, very, very interesting duality to me. I love being alone. I love the serenity and the peace of isolation, but also I love people and I love the people in my life and I'm very grateful for them. Along those lines back in August, you tweeted the rhythmic serenity of my own inhales and exhales emboldens me. And so I feel like this is what you're saying here. I'm curious, what prompts you to put this out there in the world. Why do you tweet this out? I tweet it really for me. If you look at those tweets, ever seen one of my tweets pretty much. If you think about it in a different way,

I'm really speaking to myself. Oh yeah. I see that. Exactly. It would be like if I'm sitting across from a table with myself, I'm speaking to myself. And then I take serene and important moments in my life. I create a picture inside of my mind. And then I write that tweet. that was pertaining more so to a time in practice in between moments and exchanges of wrestling when someone says go get a drink of water all right come back we're going to hit live all right guys practice is over let's circle up those quiet moments where you're taking those deep breaths and your heart rate is elevated i just close my eyes and it's so peaceful to me that's what i want that point And that moment, that feeling and that exhilaration is what I love.

I swear, I love it so much, man. And then just to open your eyes and just to know that that part of your day is completed, and I'll return to this feeling soon. I'll return home soon. I'll go back to doing what I love soon. So it's a beautiful moment of excitement, man. And I swear, I just love creating those pictures inside of my mind. I love daydreaming.

I love thinking about those things and romanticizing them in the most beautiful ways that I can, and then writing them like that. I used to write a lot of poetry, actually, when I was younger. Oh, wow. It might kind of show itself in those tweets a little bit, but I love speaking about things in a beautiful way.

It's very inspiring to me. That's what is. It's very inspiring to me, and it only reinforces the things that I feel inside of myself. What does it like to be a kid, 11 years old, do practice interviews with your dad, watch fights with your dad, and now to be living that dream, to now be at a UFC numbered event, to be doing the press conferences, to be speaking to Joe Rogan. I saw how excited you were to be there. That only comes from

someone who appreciates the history who's been watching, who's been growing up with it, but now you're the guy, you're the main character. You are watching as a kid with your pops, and now you're actually living it. Most people don't get that. They dream a dream that is so far-fetched when they're a kid. My kids want to be NBA players. They're probably not going to be. become an NBA player. Let's just be honest. You are that guy. You're living it right now. Does it feel surreal? Does it feel sometimes like it's too good to be true? Are you worried that it's going to go away? How do you process all of that considering you had this dream so long ago? I swear I've been trying to put my finger on what exactly this feels like. I promise you.

It feels so weird. It's so strange. I swear to God, it's so strange. Every single thing, people only see the fights and maybe a little bit of buildup. Every single thing, down to a tea, athamdulin that in my life, is happening so beautifully and so specific to the way that it's supposed to be played out, to the way that I dreamed about it when I was younger. It's insane, man. It's like I go through these situations and these scenarios in my mind where I'm like, am I insane?

Matter of fact, that Sunday after the fight, I woke up. at 6 a.m. And I was like in like a little bit of a panic. I was like, I'm late for the shuttle to the arena. It's like, I was like, wait a second. I literally had to take like a good 15 seconds to get myself back together and realize, wait a second. That's over. I got one.

That was yesterday. I literally go through these things inside of myself and on a daily basis, man, where I'm like, this is very weird. I don't know what it is, but it feels beautiful. And I just want to take it for what it is right now. I want to accept it for whatever it is. And I just want to ride this wave and I just want to keep on going. Maybe one day it'll hit me when I disappear in the middle of nowhere in some beautiful house.

But right now, if it feels weird, it feels weird. No one said that it was going to feel the way it feels now. No one said those feelings were going to feel like they're going to feel now. We have the idea. We had the picture laid out. We had the dreams. We had the goals numbered all the way up to 51. But no one said these feelings were going to be like this.

No one could truly give you an idea of what these things were going to make you feel, the feelings that would make you admit and all the emotions that they would bring up. So I'll just take it for what it is right now, right now, man. And it's beautiful. It's weird. It's strange. Very, very confusing at times. But I love it.

Mention your father and your relationship with him. Tricola, your opponent's father passed away. you went out of your way to speak to him about that, to see how he was doing, considering how close your father is to you. Was that before the fight or after the fight, and why did you feel the need to do that? Before the fight when I found out?

No, when did you speak to him about it? Oh, that was right after the fight. I remember I had saw, it was like on Instagram or something. I'd saw like some, what is it? Like a picture right before the interview, whatever that is. I remember seeing something about his father. So I made sure to ask him about that after the fight. I don't know why those feelings of compassion or care come up, really, immediately after a fight for me.

It's like, it's so weird. It's like I'll almost feel a little bit bad. So I wanted to speak to him about that a little bit, and I asked him about it. I just wanted to express to him that I'm very, very sorry. I'm sorry that your father is not with you anymore. I know that my father is my best friend, so I can, I won't say that I know exactly how you feel because I don't man to man. But I know what my father means to me, and if your father meant anything to you like that, And that was very hard for you.

And I'm sorry. And I hope that you're all right. So I just wanted to express that to him and the best words that I possibly could. And keep it at that man. But my father is my best friend. That is my man. That is my dude. That's the most selfish person I can think of.

Ten children, but he lives through none of them. He was an athlete himself, but he had a really, really, really bad injury. And he was never able to play football again. But he has given everything. And he continues to give. he would give an arm and a leg in his heart and even anything else if he could just for the sake of his children, just for the sake of making other people a little bit more peaceful, a little bit more happy in a safer spot. That is one of the biggest pieces of me. If you look at me and think

I'm a good man or think I'm a nice person or whatever, I am only one piece of my father. I swear to you, he is so nice. He is so giving. He is so generous. He is so respectful. He's the best person I know. And literally, his dream was for me to have my pro debut in MMA. So think about the things that I'm doing now and think about what I'm making him feel right now. That's my dream as well.

So we have like this weird tornado of feeding off each other's dreams. And it's beautiful, man. So every single thing that I do on a daily basis, even if it's a training session, if it's for the attainment of becoming a better man, not even being a world champion or any of that, If it's for the attainment of being a better man and being a kinder person, then he's happy. And that makes me happy. You mentioned you're one of 10. Are there any other siblings that are into martial arts that we might see in the UFC in the future?

So I'm one of five boys, and they all play football. Okay. And honestly, the one right beneath me, his name is Khalil, he's probably the best athlete out of all of us. I really just got like this. People say I'm athletic and all look at his back and look at this stuff, man. If you look at me when I was a freshman in high school, I was getting beat my middle schoolers in sprints during summer camps. Like I was a little chubby kid, but I'm probably the least talented or whatever of all

of my brothers, even though I'm the oldest, but I'm just very, very blessed and I know that I work hard and I know that I'm diligent. But if any of them were to get into the UFC or pursue a path in MMA, I don't think so. They all really, really, really love football. But this is my path, and I'm just very, very happy and grateful for my path. I'm definitely the black sheep of my family, not in a bad way, but I'm just different. And I understand that I'm different. I just think different.

I do things differently, for sure. I speak different. But we are all talented and very interesting in our own ways. I've seen you training at Extreme Couture with Sean Strickland. I would pay good money to be a fly on the wall when you guys are interacting. Here you are doing a little warm up, doing a little soft. sparring session, what is it like being a teammate of Sean Strickland and how do you get along with him?

Man, it's beautiful and I get along with him beautifully. That's like a brother. He's a brother within himself and that's a very, very, very good man. Whatever people think about outside of the cage or antics or whatever, or whatever the way, whatever way he speaks, man, to me, that's just a brother. If you have a brother in your life, blood or not, you guys interact like that and you guys talk to each other in a certain way that other people might not speak. to each other. So it's beautiful. I think he's an amazing person. I think he's a very, very, very, very good

man. His instruction in training is beautiful. He's very giving himself. Like he literally wants to make other people better. He just doesn't like when people are less than the selves or they act weak when they could be strong. And he's very blunt. And that's what I see as. But he's a very, very, very good teammate. He's a very good man. Every single, every single experience that I've had with him from the day one of arriving at extreme couture has been beautiful and really insightful I love our relationship okay glad to hear that and not surprised to be honest most of his teammates say the exact same thing how quickly do you want to return and against who I could return tomorrow but then I think back and I'm like all right let me be a little bit strategic about

this number one we have Ramadan coming up and I believe that's going to be sometime in February, I have to look at the exact date. So I want to prioritize that. But then right after that, I want in. I love that March idea. I love right before then, my wage low now, but we will be intelligent. And I want to climb that ladder quickly. I know the UFC has plans for me. I know I had plans myself, but I want to climb that ladder as fast as possible in terms of a specific opponent. We'll see, but I want to climb that ladder. I feel like you had a name there, by the way. I feel like you had a name, and you held back.

I feel like you had a name. You didn't want to say. Why didn't you want to say it? Because I can say some dumb stuff sometimes, and I can probably, I can probably get it. Tell us a name. Tell us a name. Shoot for the moon. Man, I love that top 15.

I love that. And I, I, exactly, I know, like, the rankings just changed maybe yesterday. I'm not really sure, but all those names. We got Martin Vittori. in there, we got Paulo Costa in there, we have, like, a few other teammates that I've trained with before in there, but all those top 15 names ring bells in my mind. I won't get ahead of myself. I definitely won't be disrespectful to anyone. But when we fight, I am the favorite in my mind and I'm the favorite within myself and I believe that I will win against any single

man. Favorite UFC countdown? Give me an old school one. Favorite? Yeah. It's got to be UFC 129. UFC 129, George St. Pierre against Jake Shields, Toronto. Okay, that's a good one. Interesting. You ever watch the prime times? You ever see the prime times? Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, the prime times are great. The closing sequence in the final episode, BJ versus GSP, UFC 94, where they're both flying to Vegas. I get chills. Also, Diaz Condit. Have you ever seen that closing sequence?

That's a half. That final episode? Oh, my God. GSP Diaz is. great as well. There's some great ones. I love the fact that you know this because I feel like a lot of the newcomers don't know about this stuff, but that is great. You know, your manager, the great Brian Butler, who's been around for a long time, when he texted me about having you on, he wrote two things that, you know, I'll be honest, as you said, doing this for a minute,

you hear it all the time. Future champ, something special. And I didn't even put any stock in it whatsoever, to be honest, because everyone says that. I know exactly what he was talking about right now. I've seen the light. I know exactly what he was talking about, and I believe him. I 100% believe him. What a great privilege and pleasure and honored to have you on the show, man. Honestly, you're a real gem. You're a real great guy, and I'm really excited about your future.

Congratulations on all your success, on everything you've done to get to this moment, and you've just scratched the service. I cannot wait to watch more of your fights and to cover your career because I feel it. You are radiating off the screen here, and it's going to be a lot of fun to watch you climb that ladder. Thank you so much, my man. I swear, I swear to God. Being on this show today is literally a dream checked off my checklist. It means so much to be, to me to be on this with you. I swear. The amount of times I've heard your voice speak to all these amazing fighters that I've seen growing up, it's just, it's something else. This is one of those weird moments right now. I feel very strange right now, but I swear it's all good. And this means so much to me. And I'm very, very, very appreciate. once again of you and your time. Much love, Mansoor. Salam al-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-brother.

And we'll talk to you very soon, all right? Take care. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Talk to you soon. There he is. Mansur Abdul Malik, what a great story. What a great guy.

What a great demeanor. What a great personality. I really, really enjoyed that. So keep your eye on him. Like I said, a beautiful soul, a gem of a human. I enjoyed that immensely, and he is well on his way. It's amazing when you see. stumble upon these characters that you didn't know much about, they come onto the scene,

they win a few fights, and now all of a sudden, Payton Talbot I put in that category as well. This is why I love doing this job. This is why I love doing this, talking to these people, learning about them, getting to pick their brain, getting to show you more. You see the standing guillotine, and you're like, wow, that's incredible, but you don't know, like they're just another fighter. Now I feel like we're emotionally invested in this man, and I cannot wait to see him continue to do his thing.

All right, so excited about that chat. I'm so excited about this upcoming chat. This man has been around the world of martial arts for a very long time. He comes from the first family of martial arts. And on December 12th this Friday, he will be competing in his first fight in about a year. It's Victory Fighting League, the Road to Redemption, December 12th, Terminal 5, New York City. Tickets available right now on access.com. That's aXS.com.

You can get the pay-per-view via me. thook, that's M-E-E-T-H-O-O-K-L-L-L-S-V-E-F-L. It's the return of ice cream, Krohn-Gracy, going up against Tom Pichiano, and the one and only, the inimitable, the Enigma. Cron Grecy is here with us in studio right here, and now, is he there? Yes, there he is. What's up, Cron? How are you, my man?

It's good to see you. Thank you for coming in. Really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Please have a seat. It's a little toasty in here because it's cold. out there. So feel free to get comfortable. How do you feel about this cold? It's brutal, right? I'm used to it. You're used to it because now you live in Montana, right? Yeah. Do you mind coming

up to the mic and maybe I'll move your jacket there just because of the visual? Here, I'll put it somewhere for you. I don't want to put it on the ground. There's a lot of artifacts here. You don't want to put it on. No, no, yeah. I'll put it right over here. All right. Okay, so it's great to have you, my man. And really, I was excited when they told me that there was a possibility of you coming in. I'll be honest, I wasn't sure if you were going to come in because I know you don't maybe love doing the media stuff. Would that be fair? I feel like there's a lot of other things to do, you know, before a fight. Sure. I'm here. I love it. Does it feel like a- I appreciate you. Okay. You're great to the sport. Okay, thank you. Well, I appreciate that.

By the way, why Montana? Why do you live in Montana now? So when the pandemic happened, my gym got shut down and then in California yeah and then I went to Montana I had a friend there and then I had a gym open over there and I was like oh over here they opened up real quickly so I was able to have a gym I was able to kind of go out and eat and go do things and wasn't really locked down is this close enough no it's not actually they're going to get mad of me yeah just if you can make love to the microphone as they say in the business so you chose Montana why and if sorry just if you could talk into it. Yeah. Why Montana? Well, I had a friend who lived there at the time and who went there too, so I was like, it just was like the first place I could go. Okay. And how is it? It's cool. Yeah,

it's cold. Definitely colder than here. So this is not that cold. Really? Okay. And for a guy who grew up in California, was it a big culture change? Yeah. But at the time, I was like really excited about it, you know, because it was the first time I got to live in a place that was mountains and cold and had the whole rocky feel, you know, like, you know, training in the mountains. And I think it still is, like, a very precious thing to me where I like a lot of things about it. But as the years go on and as everything opened up, I don't have the same training and the same, like, support and the people around me like I did in L.A. So that's why for the last four or five months, I've been in L.A. Okay. Oh, so you went back? Just for this camp. Okay.

Just for training. Yeah, you're training. And it's just easier to do my workouts. It's easier to find people to do stuff with so do you think there there'll ever be a time where you move back i don't know about moving back but definitely spend more time okay um okay so the last time we saw you in action was a year ago and and i want to talk about this opportunity but why was it so long in between fights for you uh well that was kind of not up to me you know i was trying to get a fight really like right back i called uh uFC right after and everything when i was talking was kind of really you know positive you know in a sense and um it just went on time went on and i never got a for sure answer i never got it for sure nothing but it seemed like they were kind of seemed positive about me having a

fight and and then it kind of took a little longer time so i got a manager he spoke for me and then that's what kind of sealed the deal that we were going to go our separate ways okay so your contract expired right contract expired did you want to stay i wanted to say yeah and did they give you a reason and why they didn't, you know, work to get you back in? Well, that's the part that I don't really know for sure because it wasn't me speaking. It was at that point, it was my manager speaking, the guy I had at the time who spoke for the USC for me

because I was kind of like, all right, let's, let's, I didn't want to be the one to pressure them, so I told this guy to be my manager and handle the situation, and then it just happened that way where before you know it, we were going on a separate ways. It wasn't necessarily what I wanted, but I understand and, you know, we can move forward from this. Was it a bummer? I mean, to be honest, I wanted to fight right away.

You know, like, I never wanted to fight so fast after a fight ever in my life. So I was like I felt like I made a bad fight. I made a mistake and I was so close, you know, in so many different ways. fighting a really good guy top 15 guy and after the fight I was like man I just made a simple mistake

that I could fix like that and like after every fight I kind of already know what I should have done better you know like you know it doesn't take like a whole bunch of time

or team to tell you like oh you made a mistake you didn't do this you didn't do that it's pretty simple like you see it right away as me as an athlete every fight I win or lose I kind of can see what I made a mistake on

and it was a bummer to not just be able to get right back in and show that I'm a lot better than that, you know, because that performance was, was weak, you know. What was the mistake? Well, the technical mistake was when Bryce was coming in both hands under, when I pulled guard, he couldn't elbow me, or he couldn't really slam me because both hands were under. And then when he came in on the last round, he came in with one arm over, and I pulled guard the same way, and that's when he was able to slam me.

But not that I'm going to try to pull guard again or anything, But that was one mistake, not fighting for, so Bryce was a really, really good wrestler, and I was always trying to stand up with him, and I was trying to box him. And every time I would land some shots, he would clinch, and then I would not want to get thrown down and let him land in a better position, so I would pull guard. But it was not really like my incentive to, like, pull guard and, like, do that. Kind of like what I did with Jordan, it was a bigger mistake because I was, like, in incentivizing the pulling guard.

But with Bryce, it wasn't really that at all. I wasn't really trying to go to the ground with Bryce. But he clinched me, and I didn't want to end up in a bad position, so I didn't really fight the takedown or anything. I just pull guard, which also was a mistake. So either way, pulling guard is going to be... It's gone? It's gone.

A lot of people don't pull guard in MMA, right? It's not a thing anymore. It's obviously more of a jiu-jitsu technique. Yeah, I feel like I'm comfortable there, you know, and a lot of people aren't and that's why I can resort to it and I feel really good I don't take damage and I can get a lot of things from there it sucks that the five-minute rounds doesn't always you know when you look over sometimes it's like 30 seconds left it's like you don't have enough time and that's just the adjustment that I need to make as a fighter like you need to make the fight

more progressive to get on top and you need to fight with the time so instead of like in my mind about no time and what happens when things happen with more than five minutes, it doesn't exist. You know, when it's less than five minutes, or when it's five minutes, it's five minutes. You could have, be building up something for three minutes, four minutes, and then right when you're about to get something, time is up. So the time it takes to cook a little bit is a little bit longer, and I understand that. And so, you know, I think the pulling guard thing is something I don't really I was kind of relying on it too much and like feeling comfortable about it in training and having success in training but I didn't let get to test it on the highest level with the

best guys and it's an easy fix you know I don't need to pull guard if if the guy throws me down or whatever or get there we're there but like I have more tools to to offer than that you know feels like there's a negative connotation attached to pulling guard like yeah the fans view it as like a weak move, almost like a cop-out. In Jiu-Jitza, you don't view it that way, but in MMA, it is viewed that way. And I feel like that was the emotional reaction to your performance in that fight. Is that accurate, in your opinion? Do you feel that way, and is that fair?

I feel like there's pulling guard, one grappling in general is already looked down on in the UFC. You know, even when I've seen people like in a good position, if it's not nothing, happening, people are booing. Even if you get a submission within one minute, sometimes that one guy who got Emmett in the armlock, he got it real quick. People were like booing that he got a minute submission real quick. You know, like took him down and submitted him real quick. People are booing. So I think jujitsu in general is like not as appealing to the UFC audience as much as striking and wrestling. But I think when it comes to pulling guard, for me at that time, it was kind of like a, well, you're going to take me down anyways. Why not end up in a better

position for me than let you a little bit half guard or a little bit past my guard or on my back, something that is going to be worse. So since I felt like Bryce specifically was a good wrestler and he was going to probably get me down anyways, I was like, all right, let's just go here where but I feel like now knowing that the fan base doesn't like that at all I can fight I I'm a black bone judo I can I can fight it and to try to throw and try to open things up a little bit more you know so so there's a fine line there because you're saying okay you know the fan base doesn't like it but still this is your bread and butter and so how do you make the distinction of when the money's involved that's what you make the difference okay that's fair and when I can't

get a fight I never thought that do you think that's what happened that no one wanted to be in business with you after that I think so I think a part, not, not, no one wanted to be in business, but I think that the fans kind of were, uh, they turn on you. They, well, yeah, but that's, that's the fans, but, uh, I think that it's hard to, like, sell something like that, you know, they're like, okay, we're trying to sell. Everyone's trying to make money. Everybody's trying to sell business.

So it's just what it is, you know, and the same way you lose fans, you gain fans. And one day, you could have them, you can't, so I'm not like, I know my skills are up to date. I know I can perform really well at the highest level. I just need to, you know, package it up and put it on the skills on the table, you know? For that to be your last performance and have this layoff, even though you wanted to fight right away, has it been a frustrating year for you because you probably wanted to erase the memory of that and have something on top of it, right? Yeah, but that's life.

Life is all about ups and downs and how you deal with what's happening, you know? Like, it's always a challenge. Even when you're winning, it's a challenge what happens around you. you and you know that's a part of like me always competing since I was a kid there's always like a wave of things happening so I don't look at anything and like let it get me too down or let it get me too up so if I win like when I won when I won my first fight in the UFC everybody was coming up to me like wow you're the best thing ever like everybody in the world was like I was like whoa guys relax it's my first fight in the UFC can you guys like take a break

like we haven't even seen what's going to happen because I know at that time I only had five fights so I know I need more experience I know I need more training but and then the same thing you lose one or two times people people think you suck and it's not either you know so even though the fans might have ups and downs with me I don't have ups and downs with me okay I know where I stand in the world with training with martial arts with the people I'm fighting with in the gym you know know anybody who trains with me knows what I'm bringing to the table if I was getting beat up in the gym or was losing traction in any sort of a way then I would be like okay but that's not happening you know you still love it yeah I love training I love training I love fighting what fighting brings and and

it's healthy you know it's a healthy lifestyle so yeah how did you end up with VFL um well they they contacted me okay yeah and did you know anything about them when they did. No. So they've had two events. This will be their third. And they seem like they're kind of thinking, you know, a little bit off the beaten path, doing things differently, a show at Times Square, this terminal five.

I'll be honest, I don't know much about them other than, you know, I know it's not cheap to put on an event in Times Square. And so they seem to have something behind them. But you've been in this game a long time. You know about martial arts. Promotions come and go from what you've seen so far of them. Do you feel like they're in it for the long haul? Do you like the experience so far?

Yeah, I feel like being a part of something new is interesting. You know, you never know what's going to happen, but I feel like there's some interest to being a part of something that's, you know, blossoming and being a part of it. But like anything, there's a learning curve and like it takes time and experience to get good at anything. So I think that's just the case, you know. They've only had a couple shows.

I'm happy to be a part of this show. and hopefully we can grow it and you know see what happens from here do you have you don't strike me the type of person that has this but i'll ask anyways considering what happened in your last fight is there a chip on your shoulder is there like i'm going to prove you wrong i'm going to show you what i'm all about mentality going into this fight uh i think that i want to show my skills for sure you know and losing is is not what i want to show so yeah i want to show that i can win i want to show that I can perform in every platform of fighting, striking, throwing, takedowns, ground, submissions, whatever it is, I want to be able to show it more.

And I kind of think that people forget I only had, I only have eight fights, you know. So even though I've been in the game for a while, I've been training for a long time, I'm still getting a lot of experience. After my last fight, after the fight before that, every fight in the UFC has been a great learning, you know, experience. and it takes that. And I kind of took a lot of tough fights, meaning guys that were really good, really soon,

and was like, okay, I'm just going to fight the toughest guys I can fight. And in my heart, that's where I wanted to do. But, you know, it's still only eight fights, you know. So I feel like I have a lot more to, a lot more to show, you know. If I had 30 fights under my belt, it would be a different story, but I'm still learning, I'm still getting better, and I'm still only eight fights in.

I'm not breaking any news to you here by saying this, but obviously there's a lot of attention on you because of your last name and because of what you'd done. And I felt like... That ain't news. Exactly. That's what I thought. I felt like people viewed it as maybe you were the last one for a very long time

to be able to have an impact in the UFC. Is that accurate, by the way? Is there anyone coming up behind you? I'm not hearing of anyone. And I know some of your family members have chosen not to fight MMA. They just do jujitsu and that's totally fine. But it felt like, okay, this was the last shot for some sort of sort of like renaissance for the Gracie family in the UFC, the promotion that they helped

build. Is there someone coming up behind you that you know of with your last name from your family lineage that can have an impact as well? Or was it really on you to do that? I never really put that much pressure on myself. And I don't know. The family's big. People might pop up. There's a bunch of people sometimes they come up to me. They say they're Gracie. I never even met them before, you know. So I don't really know what's happening. But I'm focused on myself and you never viewed it as like it's it's on me to carry the flag and the torch and yeah more like my dad you know i wanted to represent my dad sure specifically and like represent in that sense but the family's big and even in this generation just with jiu jutsu i was one of the few guys

to really compete so in my generation there's me hajer kira um and a couple other graces that competed in just jiu-jitsu specifically and then to be doing an m-ma and to have four fights in the ufc i've already done more than any other gracy in my generation so hollis as well hollis hollis fought yeah but he fought once once yeah and then hodger fought once right and um but again it's not like a everybody's doing their part yeah you know everybody's trying to compete and trying to fight who wants to and I'm not really too worried about what they're doing or I'm just trying to do what I can do. It just so happens that I kind of took it this far, but... Did you always expect to take it this far? Yeah, I expect to... Was fighting in MMA always a part

of the dream for you, the journey, the life path? Okay. How is your father doing, by the way? He's good. He announced about a year or so ago that he was dealing with Parkinson's, right? Is he doing okay? Yeah, I think so. Is he able to train? He teaches. okay so he's able to to live with it at this point and how's your relationship with him it's okay okay does he live in florida okay um do you do you have a school in montana like do you have like a i have like a private gym okay Montana and then i opened up a like a i partnered with one of my black boats who has a gym in l. okay so when i'm in l.a i have a gym i train at and then i was training in San Diego at a friend's gym, and then in Montana, I have, like, a private facility.

Okay. You were always... I had a big gym. Yes. Then it shut down, and I got a small one. Because of COVID and all that. No, no. I had a big gym in Montana.

Oh, in Montana, okay. Why did it get shut down? It's a long story, but... Okay. Okay. All right. You were always a sort of auxiliary member of the scrap pack as well, right? Are you still training with those guys?

Okay. Yeah, I was trained with them on my way down in L.A. Okay. Stop with there, train with Gilbert. guys. Nate around? Yeah, I'm cool with Nate. No, but was he was he? No, he was in, I don't know where he was at the time, but I was training in San Francisco and he's more in Stockton. Okay, yeah. What about Nick? We haven't, we haven't heard much from him. Me neither. Okay. So maybe not as active these days as far as the training, but Gil, Jake? Uh, Gil, Jake is in

Vegas. Right. And Gil is, is coaching a bunch of good guys right now. So he has actually a fight card the next day after my fight oh in san Jose yeah it's like uh he has his doing a thing with scott cocker yeah yeah so he has that going on the next day so he's training all those guys everybody's getting ready for that over there so he won't be in your corner who will be in your corner coach tony and maybe morongo okay uh so just potentially one person one or two or three okay yeah doesn't really matter i mean coaches are important but But, you know, it's me and they're fighting, you know. Your opponent.

Do you know his name? Tom, right? Yeah. What was his last name? Something would a pee. Yeah. Pechiano, I believe. You know very little about him.

Very little. Did you even, like, do research on him? There he is, by the way, in case you're wondering. Yeah, I've seen that. Okay. I saw him for the first time when we did the face off. It was funny because... There you were.

Yeah, when I was there, I didn't know who he was, but I knew he had a shaved head. So I was, like, looking at all these guys with the shaved head. Like, is this guy really? Which one is he? But yeah, it is. Do you know anything about him? I know a little bit.

I've seen one of his fights. He's tough. You know, he can definitely fight. But I feel like people fight me differently than they fight everyone else. So I can't put too much attention into the video. And there's nothing like getting in there and seeing what they're going to do to me anyways. So I don't put too much attention into the video. and it's kind of like I grew up in a mentality where it was like no time, no rules, no weight,

you don't know who you're going to fight, you know, that's like what the stories I used to hear about my dad and everybody. You were trained, there was no YouTube, there was no internet, you would just trained, and then you fought, and then you guys saw who the better fighter was. And that's kind of where I come from, so I don't need all these other things that, make somebody great today, you know. A lot of fighters are great because they have a great team. They have a great corner. They have a great, in between rounds, they got water break.

They have somebody to tell them exactly what to do. They have all these things in the preparation with the, it's like scientists, you know. And I didn't grow up with all that kind of like, I grew up with the basics, you know, like you train hard, you work on certain techniques, you do this, and then you go in and fight. so how would you describe the way in which you grew up in the sense that like you're growing up in California with a very recognizable last name and a very influential family 10 years old 11 years old when you're of that age do you recognize that you're a part of something special yeah when it was uh bring your parent to work or when your parents would come in to show their work

yeah cool day you know my dad would bring a trophy so sick well yeah you must have felt like the coolest kid I was the coolest kid when my dad came in with the trophy and his... And the toughest guy, right? Like, you've got some other dads who are like, you know, accountants, not really in shape. Your dad comes in. Yeah. Yeah, that was cool. The first time you stepped on a mat, the first time you put on a ghee.

How old were you? I don't remember. Do you think it was like two years old, one years old? Probably. Yeah. Yeah. When you can crawl around, they're playing with you and, you know, pushing your belly. So you grab the finger and you train your grip strength, you know?

Yeah. But these days, the Gracie's had a big advantage because they were training since they were babies. And when they started competing, there was no one else training that much. But now you look around, there's people have been training since they're kids in so many different ways. So the Gracies don't have that kind of advantage anymore. You know, if anything, it's a disadvantage because my family is the one teaching all these people I'm fighting. So all the people that I fought have people who are in my family. me coaching somebody who coach somebody who coached them to fight me.

Sure. So it's like an inflation with fighting for me because I'm getting paid less. I'm fighting tougher guys and the time is shorter and all these things that I wasn't trained for, you know. I was trained for a long time being able to use Jidts who, you know, let the guy get tired, gas, you know, train it forever, you know, no way. no rules those were kind of the what I was hearing when I was growing up you know those are the things I needed to be prepared for you love the old pride rules right I think pride was the best rule set yeah because it wasn't too long to where it was so boring but you could have a 10 minute that 10 minute round I think is significantly different yeah and then personally if you could have two 10 minute rounds

I already think the sport would change for the better why because it you get a little tired after five minutes and you have to be technical and you still have to be in the game. Five minutes, you can kind of work your way around it, you know, you can do a little this, do a little that, and then one minute left, okay, I'm going to shoot for a takedown, and then boom, the round's over. You do that three times, you win the fight. With 10 minutes, you don't really have the time to plan because you, at five minutes, you start getting tired, you can't really plan what you're going to do after the next. and I felt like when I was training for a 10 minute round in Japan it was a lot harder for people to keep up

and it was it would become a different fight so five minutes you can kind of plan around you can work with it 10 minutes it really shows the skill level and it takes away the athleticism and I understand that having no time is kind of not a good idea in many ways but I think if I could pick, it would be, you know, either one 15-minute round, one 10-minute round, and then 1-5, or one, you know, for championship fights, 2-15-minute rounds or 2, 3-10, I don't know, something a little longer. Yeah. I think we would see a lot more distinct, like, a lot less fights going to the decision.

I heard you say that before one of your fights, you were talking in an interview about your experience in Japan. You said that they were kind of like playing games with you on way and day, you felt like they were trying to give you, like, a different scale. Is that true? Yeah. A different scale. I mean, I don't know everything. So that you had to cut more weight?

I didn't know for sure. Yeah. According to my calculations in my life and my experiences, they gave me a different scale. They had three scales in the locker room. Yeah. And then they had one scale for me. And then. Why?

Why? So then I stepped in the scale and I'd already weighed myself and I was on weight. And then I was a pound and half over. And I was like, this is weird. I was already on weight. they're like, you know, you've got to lose the weight. So then I go, I lose more, still like over 500 grams. So I'm like, well, what are all these other scales doing here?

And then whatever. I end up losing all the weight, make weight. And then later that day, I was talking to Gabby Garcia, and she was telling me the same thing. And she was like, oh, yeah, I was there, steps on the scale, and it was a pound and a half over. Then I brought my scale, and I showed him my scale. And then they said, okay, no problem. And I was like, so then I had to just weigh an extra pound. and lose an extra pound and a half.

And I don't know if it was malicious or what it was, but the fact that I had to lose the weight is a fact. Yeah. The extra weight. I thought maybe it was because of the family history. I mean, I don't know. I mean, there's always little tricks and stuff happening around fight time in the fight game. That's boxing.

That's any kind of fighting is, you know, it's fight business. But that being said, I feel like you, so when I was thinking, okay, where may you end up rising? to me felt like a natural one because of the history because of how important your family was to that region to that you know obviously the market did you speak to them i did yeah how'd that go obviously didn't go well enough well maybe it was like hey get this one out of the way and we'll see you you know next month or i don't know i don't know i think it was positive to some extent but obviously um it didn't get the deal done right did you want to compete there i think it was the next

best event that was going to happen i think like as an event they're probably a solid event they're really enjoying a renaissance i feel like that whole region have a lot of good fighters and fights going on i think that's positive i also think um it's a lot of money to go to japan and to do your camp out there and to spend extra time out there and it's just a lot of extra work you know and if i'm not getting paid enough money it doesn't make sense for me to be putting so much extra work if i was and paid more, it would make sense, but it didn't make sense at the time. Okay. Reading between the lines, perhaps they were interested, but only to a certain degree,

and you didn't like the offer? I don't know. Okay, so that's good. I mean, at least it was some interest. You do something great on Friday. That price goes up. Yesterday's price, not today's price, right? Definitely the price is only going to go up from now on.

Yes. I love, by the way, when you were a young kid, did you ever go to those pride events? Yeah, I went to my dad's fights. Wow. Not all of them, but the pride ones, yeah. what was that like it was amazing yeah it was 50,000 people in the Coliseum a lot of people it was crazy when you were watching that were you telling yourself I'm gonna do that one day I knew yeah I knew at that point that I was gonna be fighting you

know like it's like everything is just put on a platter for you just kind of have to follow this direction so yeah I mean like training and competing and going in everything was just like it seemed like that was the path it seemed like when you were a kid it was either that or skateboarding those were the two loves right how close were you to actually saying no to all of this martial arts stuff and actually trying to become a pro skateboarder um obviously not close enough but I think there were some things I wasn't that good I was good at skateboarding but I wasn't as good as like other kids in the other um professionals at my age okay you know

so I put like an honest opinion and I was like I'm probably not as good as I would like to be so I have a better chance working with my dad and working with you know somebody who's the best okay did you did you did you go through high school I did yeah and and did you go to college no okay so like at that point once you're that age you were a phenom at that point there was no need for any of that right yeah I kind of made a decision after like 12 years old I was like okay I'm going to just start training full time wow 12 years old. Wow. And what does full time mean as a 12 year old? Like every class that was possible. So for me it was like training from 3.34 till like 9 p.m. Okay. And then go to school?

Well, I was going to school before, yeah. Okay, like during the day. And are your friends doing it as well or are you doing it like? Some of them were doing the classes and stuff, but yeah. You were, you were like doing it at an intense level. Was your dad tough on you? Mm-hmm. In retrospect, do you think too tough? No, I think he did a good job. Okay. Do you have children? Would you want them if you did to follow in your footsteps? I think to a certain extent, yeah. Okay.

In a certain extent, they have to train. They should train. They should go through certain things. But if they want to compete, it's kind of up to them. Right. You know, there's an interesting thing right now in the world of jiu-jitsu with these black belts being given out. There's a guy named Derek Moneyberg.

Have you heard of this guy? Yeah. Do you know him? No. I had him on the show recently. Yeah, I saw clips of it. Okay. I mean, quite frankly, I think it's a Mickey Mouse black belt that he has.

It's a Happy Meal Black Belt. And I know your friend gave it to him, but just from what I've seen, like, how could you get a black belt without competing? How do you feel about this? I feel like, um, can I take it water? Yeah, yeah. Do you want, do you want us to bring you water? Sure.

Okay, yeah, someone will bring you. Because we're live now, so we can't really. Okay, yeah, we can't. Someone will bring you water. Do you want a Celsius or do you not like that stuff? No, yeah, I get it. They're just a sponsor of art. Someone will bring you water.

Cool. I think people can get a black belt without competing. But I think the three-year thing is kind of, in my opinion, could be, it doesn't really make sense to me. So people can get their black belt. It's hard to tell with Jiu-Jitsu because there is no rules, you know, like, there's no rules that's going to say, I can't give you a blackboard. No one's going to say, hey, that's not possible. Like in judo, you can, there's rules.

So I think there's so many black belts in the world that are not competitive amongst the high-level competitive black boats. And that's even before I got my black belt. When I was a kid growing up, when I was a purple belt, I was already tapping. out some black belts. So that's kind of, they're not competitors. They're not training full time. They have family. They have kids. I think that's always the case. There is no criteria. And when you train for 20 years or 15 years, you get your black belt. That's just kind of the way jiu-jitsu has been over the years. So in that sense, I don't think that everybody has to be the high-level competitor as a black belt because the rules are already shot for everybody.

Right. Right. There is no, there is no, okay. okay if you're black but you have to be good rule so in that sense you train 10 15 20 years you put your lifetime into you get your black belt like i have many students that after 20 years i give them a black belt they deserve it in their own right they're not going to compete at the worlds but they deserve it but with derrick i think it's a little bit that his name right derrick yeah um it seems like it's a lot of money involved it seems like it's a lot of promotional stuff involved. It seems like it's a little fishy, but I don't know. Yeah. They're bringing you the water, by the way. They just told me so just a couple of seconds away. Just a couple of seconds. I know,

because they're all the way on the other side of the dam building here, so I apologize for that. I just think that you guys work so hard. And I know that there's no like set thing, right? You don't have to go to ADCC. You don't have to go to Mundialis. You don't have to win X amount. but it is such a sign of accomplishment for someone to do it in three and a half years and just be given it when we know that there's money involved feels like it takes away from the purity of it all from the from the prestige from the honor yeah I think when you make it that short and you put that much money around here he is thank you appreciate thank you GC I think when you put that much money involved and you have that much kind of marketing behind it i think everybody can get weird about it and then he's like you know talking shit about how how he did it and how other people are not doing it i think that's why he people rub him the wrong way if he ever said anything i don't think anybody would care you know did you ever ask jake about this no no he's just trying to promote himself off of it which i think is what

makes um people feel weird but i mean it doesn't really matter i i i heard heard you say that you've given up black belts too right yeah I've given up a few quite a few black belts yeah and all of them are competitors right some based on attendance it's not attendance it's you put your whole you put 20 years of training and you get a black belt you know have there has there ever been a time in retrospect where you're like maybe that guy didn't deserve it only one guy I regret ever giving a belt to okay he didn't complete what I asked him to complete is he a known person or just no he's not okay but but yeah he didn't he we had an agreement that he was going to do a certain thing and he didn't do it and then I regret giving him

that black belt but that's only one and I've given probably 20 or 30 black boats out okay is there a system that you have like do you have the sort of yeah okay I think in general when you can when you can train jihitsu and learn how to use your energy properly and not gas yourself out and be aware of all the positions I think that's a huge thing to do, you know? When you can knock gas out in 10 minutes, when you can train for all the positions and have an understanding, a basic understanding of everything, that's pretty much, you know, it takes at least 10 years to get that. These days, do you do more ghee or no ghee? I do both. Both. Do you have a preference, like what you like doing more? Probably when

you're preparing for MMA, it's more no-gi, right? Yeah. But I like the ghee. Okay. And the people I train with, they don't like hold my sleeves forever and just like stroke me out. So I created an environment where people are actually trying to try to beat each other instead of sweep each other. You were a teenager when you got your black belt, right? It was 19, yeah. Wow. That's unbelievable. I mean, like, again, to think that someone in their 40s would get it after three and a half years, it just, I don't have a black belt, obviously. I would never even dare to dream to have one at this point in my life because I haven't put in the time. So it feels like it cheapens everyone else's. But maybe I'm looking to.

too into it. I mean, even before this guy got his black belt, there was a lot of people getting black belts that I didn't agree with. Okay. And I thought in my head, I was like, oh man, maybe I should just give all my students black belts and just cause an inflation in the whole game. Obviously, I never did that and I wouldn't do that. But that's kind of like what my grandfather was wearing a blue belt you know when he got hit to his late years of life he was wearing a blue belt and he was like oh yeah these guys are all wearing red belts they don't deserve the red belt i'm going to wear a blue belt because you know these guys so that's what it just goes to show it's not just now that people have been wearing belts that they don't deserve or that

there is this doubt and really what matters is your skills and your training and that's what matters The belts help some here and there, and it shows some people some sort of achievement, but really what matters is when you go to train, what's happening, how are you learning, how are you getting better, what are you doing, are you giving up, are you getting tapped, are you doing this, are you getting out? Those things are what really matters, and I really just stopped putting too much attention into the belt in general, so much to where there was a time in my gym where I didn't give anybody belts.

I just was too worried about my training and my competition and my life. and so people would come up to me oh this guy needs to be a training and then after running a business you're like okay fine you know yeah okay I'll give these guys the belts but there was a solid chunk of my life where I was not giving

anybody belts not because I didn't care or didn't look but I was so focused on my training and no one was like wow I'm like whoa this guy is so impressive I need to give you a belt you know because I was not even impressed with myself so

so yeah that's the way It's just belts is belt. Different than in judo. In judo, every degree means something. You know, you have to achieve certain things. Every degree is an accomplishment. When fighters get it after a UFC fight a black belt, is that funny to you? I don't know.

I don't really think about it too much. Okay. Do you have memories of your grandfather? I do, yeah. Is there anything special that comes to me? mind he was a fierce you know until the day he died he was a he was a very fierce man you know warrior till the day he died ready for anything competitive intimidating to be around yeah for sure extremely really yeah so like you could you talk to him and i could yeah but like other people

sometimes would get yeah everybody was getting yelled at really okay like would he be at your house and you could just like just chill with him or was it a different type of presence that he had He had a solid presence, but you could chill with him. Okay. And was it always just, I feel like the way I view him, and this is with the utmost respect, it's sort of like the way we view like Master Splinter from a Teenage Mutant Ninja or Yoda, like he's always wise and sage and giving you advice.

That's the way we view him. I've never met him, obviously, never had the pleasure. Was he like that as well? Was he always trying to teach you things? Or was it just like any other grandfather where he's just like around? No, he's definitely trying to teach you. And everything he says is the law for sure. the law yeah what do you mean by that like he's right about everything okay and he's

what he's saying is the it's what it is right um you know that thing that you do with your stomach who taught you that was your dad or grandfather my dad your dad and you still do it yeah and can i ask you what is the benefit here we're showing a video of you doing it the the when is this from how how like right when i got to l. okay and why do you say don't try this at home because you could fuck your stomach up you can't you can mess up your intestines or you can have an issue

I don't know what happened with Mikey Mushienishi but he fucked his shit up and he went to the hospital almost died damn so I don't know what is the benefit of this I hit up Mikey on Instagram to see what exactly happened yeah as he was saying he was doing that

and then he went to the hospital and he almost died ripped his lung geez so I texted him or I sent him a message you never got back to me he should have he should have yes but I think he's just I got lost in his messages but the thing that I do is I take my air out so I have no air in my stomach and then I'm moving my diaphragm so I'm guessing I don't know I would like to ask him but I'm guessing he had air in his stomach and he was moving it

around and then that's when you can probably cause some problems so anything like that with your stomach and your intestines, if you don't have an understanding of what you're doing or know how to build up to it, you can hurt yourself. I mean, I've seen people hurt themselves doing really small things. So I say don't try that at home so you don't sue me if you try to correct, you know, because it is, you can start slow and you can build yourself up. And it is a simple thing, but you can, you know, obviously with Mikey, I'm curious, Mike, tell me what happened with you why you got your, your ribs slice. You'll see this, he'll see this, and he'll respond. Cool.

Get in those DMs right back to Rio Kidd. I'm guessing it was because he had air in his lungs. Okay. Because it's never happened to me. I've never had any issues. But I'm also sensitive, you know, I'm not going to push something if it hurts too much, you know. Sure. Now, do you do this every day?

Yeah. Wow, like morning before training? Usually around training. Okay. After training. And how long does it last? Or if I'm in the sauna? 15 minutes, 10 minutes.

And when your dad's teaching this to you, as a kid, you could mess it up too, right? Did you ever... He never gave me the chance to mess it up. Okay, wow. He never said that there was a mess up. But he was very clear that you move through your diaphragm, right? So the whole thing is you don't breathe through your chest, right? When people get panicked, they breathe here.

And that's only filling up a part of their lungs. When you breathe through your diaphragm, you're filling up all your lungs. so when you start you lay down and you just move your belly right you don't move this and it starts like that and then you you start to move like shh then you start to suck the sucking up the stomach in and moving it around is almost like a trick

like it's definitely moving stuff around and loosening up your intestines but that's not the heart of it. The heart of it is just moving like, that's the heart of what matters. Okay. Moving it around is just kind of like a little, it's like a dance trick, you know. Do you teach us to your students?

I teach the first part. Okay. You know, what I just said basically, just breathing out through your diaphragm, breathing in through your belly, not breathing in through your chest. the rest I kind of they may be depending on who it is

okay okay it's not something you're going to do in a big class or something like that yeah not really I was looking at an old interview that you did with Be Real in a car you know this interview it's like from like eight nine years ago and I kind of got lost in the details

but you talked about a friend of yours who saved your life you said that you were choking on your throw up yeah why were you what happened I don't know what happened to this day but that guy was in the the car that day he's in the back right yeah he passed away late a few years later i'm sorry but um

but yeah i was uh he's eating breakfast coffee itself and then i started getting dizzy so i went outside and then passed out and and um saw like my whole life kind of not my whole life but parts of my life passed in front of my face and random little clips and then i saw those the white light and then I was like oh shit that's the white light don't go to the white light you know like I got like a glimpse of that's not where I want to go and then I woke up and my friend was behind me and he had been pumping my chest and there was puke all over my jacket and everything and I took off my jacket I opened my jacket and it was like a huge steamball just came up whoa and yeah what happened like why do you think that happened no idea till this day

I went to a doctor and he said, don't worry about it. What? What? Yeah, he's like, yeah, you probably, probably have to worry about. Do you believe that? I don't know. I mean, I think there was, like, it was right after one of my fights, so maybe I was drinking. Maybe I was not sleeping, maybe, you know, too much coffee, maybe, I don't know.

Has anything like that happen again? Not like that. But close? No. Okay. Nothing remotely close. No. You think you were, like, if you're, if you were alone, I'd be dead.

Dead? Mm-hmm. Because you would have choked on your vomit? Mm-hmm. Yeah, when he came out, he told me that I was stuck on the chair with, like, a little bit of vomit. Damn. Like, choking. Damn.

And I was stuck. And then he came out, and he said he was pumping my chest for, like, over a minute until he, and he's a big, strong dude, and he finally got it out. And as soon as he got it out, I was breathing again. Golly. Mm-hmm. Can I ask, what happened to him? He died at Fentanyl. Oh, man, I'm sorry.

Was he a good friend of yours? Great friend. Okay. Like, saved your life. Yeah. How did that... After that, I bought all of his dinners and everything I could pay for years, you know? Yeah.

All expenses paid with Merv. Man. You're someone who cares a lot about diet and health and when not, right? Like, used to be a pescatarian. Are you still a pescatarian? No. I stopped eating, I started eating meat. Okay.

Right around the pandemic time. Okay. And now? Meat. Meat. Yeah, just good meat, you know, but I eat meat. I avoid, like, sugar and try to eat everything organic. But, yeah, for the most, like, I avoid processed foods, but I eat meat, seafood.

Okay. Yeah. And you're a big believer, like, you know, size. and stuff like that, you were, you were outspoken to a degree about COVID and everything like that. I think you would probably feel now that you made the right choices, right? Do you mean like for what part? Well, because I remember when you took a bit of a hiatus from fighting, right? I think there was some sort of, there was talk that you didn't want to kind of partake in that world. You wanted to wait for the storm to pass and then when things were a little

bit normal than you can resume your career right yeah i didn't know what was going to happen i don't think anybody did yeah i think everything was locked down for so long it was really difficult for me to get motivated in that lockdown time yeah so that was at least two years where it was kind of really locked down and after that it started opening up i was like okay now we can start training again um but i honestly didn't know if it was ever going to go back you know i moved to montana with the idea that it was probably never going to go back the same. You know, I didn't think they were going to invest so much money into locking everything down for so long and then open everything up.

So once everything opened up again, you know, it opens up the idea to travel, to go back, to go back to a city. But I didn't know what was going to happen. It is a crazy. It's crazy to look back at that time. Yeah. Those two years were really, it's almost like. A blur now.

It's a blur. And it's crazy that people, we all. are all just pretending like it never happened, you know? We all just pretend like we live in a city. Everything's back to normal. And we're just like, wow, we forget that a few years ago, everything was just... Do you feel like everything's back to normal? I would say so, yeah.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, there was once a time where this city was completely shut down. Yeah, it's crazy. Wild. Can I ask you a silly question? Sure. Do you still feel like the world is flat?

I really don't give a shit, really, to be honest. That comes up a lot with you. Yeah, it comes up, but, you know, I really don't care, you know? Like, it doesn't make no difference in my mind. I'm just curious. I have no, I don't think less of you if you think that way or more. I'm not that type of person. I like interesting people.

And that's why I was so excited to talk to you. Yeah, I mean, I really don't put too much attention. I put a lot of attention at a certain time in my life because there was a lot of things that were interesting to me. And, yeah, I really don't care anymore. At this point, you're just kind of a wiser, older man who just wants to be left alone, I feel like. Do your thing. Well, you can't be left alone. Then life doesn't let you be alone.

No matter what you do. Well, I guess if you do what you do for a living, you have to kind of, if you were a guy who wasn't a prize fighter, if you will, you could be left alone, right? You'd be somewhere in Montana. You still never get left alone. Even in Montana in the middle of the mountains, you still find a way to someone to come and poke you for something. Right. Do you feel, though, you're pretty much at peace now? Like, do you feel like life is good?

Life is good, yeah. You're happy? You're happy? You're happy about being healthy and ready to fight, you know? Okay. training camp no injuries i'm healthy i'm ready to go um i i understand this might be a person we're gonna let you go in a minute so don't worry um but i know your your brother passed while living in new york many years ago when you come here does this city have bad feelings for you do you

think of that i think earlier in my life yeah but not now okay you know i think yeah there's no connection to that? There's a connection, but I spent so long not coming to New York, and then when I came to New York for Nate's fight with Masvedol, I had such a good experience, that whole week after the fight

before the fight. Outside of the loss was horrible, but we had a great time, and you know, I don't have any bad feelings towards New York. I like it, you know? It's a cool city. There's a lot of good food, good people. It's a good mix. There is, obviously, everything is good.

and bad about every city you know there's advantages and disadvantages and i like to kind of look at that you know was that your first time in new york in a long long time for nate's fight was i hadn't been there since probably a little teenager maybe so since since he yeah probably that was a i think the fight was in 2019 and i think he passed in 2000 right so wow um so yeah growing up it was like a little bit of hostility towards new york yeah but i'm over it That's gone. Yeah, my dad didn't like listening to East Coast rappers for a long time. For that reason?

Yeah, but I always listen to it. You're more of a West Coast guy anyway. West Coast, but I listen to East Coast. Yeah, more Tupac than Biggie. But they're both. They both good. Right, right, right. Purge on Friday, we're walking out to that or no?

I don't know. I haven't even thought about it, really. You haven't thought about it. They haven't asked you? They have. They've been bugging me trying to get a fight, a song, but I've been kind of trying to do other things. Like what?

Like find a sauna plays, you know. Is it tough in New York to find those things? just have to find everything. Okay. And when you're working for a little time to do shit on your own. When you're working for like an upstart promotion, when you're fighting for one, it's not quite as well-oiled as the UFC, right? Are you experiencing that to a degree? Yeah. Yeah. But it's all good. You'll get there. All right. Well, it's Friday. It's this Friday, December 12th, Terminal 5 in New York City. There it is. The Return of Ice Cream Cron. Are we still going with that? Sure. Yeah, sure. I think it's one of the great nicknames. I think it's one of the great nicknames in the history

of combat sports. At this point, they call me whatever they want. No, man. You're the man. People love you. Yeah, look at that. People are excited about this.

I appreciate it. I feel the excitement. They were excited that you were coming on today. I feel like there was a lot of people like, holy shit, Cron Gracie, here he is. So I wish you the best. Thank you for coming in.

I'm sorry for putting you through the torture of a one hour conversation. No, this is great. It's been good. But I enjoyed it very much and really excited about you being back and looking forward to seeing what you're going to do on Friday and beyond.

So all the best to you. Good luck. There he is the great. Crone Gracie in action this Friday, VFL, their third show, they're doing big things. If you're in New York City, go to AXS.com to buy tickets, Terminal 5, beautiful venue. Have you seen it? Yes. Oh yeah, that's where you did the face off, right?

Pretty cool spot, right? Nice. Yeah, cool spot. So it's this Friday, December 12th. Go check it out. We'll say goodbye to Crone. Be back with Caroline Dubois, the newest member of MVP. Don't go anywhere.

Since November 17th, I believe, was the day that Anthony Joshua, Jake Paul was announced. We have gotten the announcements of Anthony Joshua, Jake Paul. Yep. Justin Gaichi versus Patty Pimlet for an interim title. Alexander Volcanovsky getting a rematch against Diego Lopez for the featherweight title. Rumors are now swirling. Betting favorite to get the title shot against Islam Makashiv is won Kamaru Usman.

So we might get another undeserving title shot at 170. And now we're hearing rumors as well of Katie Taylor. potentially fighting in a boxing match against Ronda Rousey. Yes. This is all happened in like the last 20. All right, back on the program. That was a scene from last week's boys in the back. Catch them live this Thursday, 1 p.m. Eastern.

Prior to that, we had Crong Gracie in studio. Some people in the back were setting the line at plus 500 that he was going to come in. But he was great. I enjoyed that very much. Fascinating guy. definitely the longest chat that I've ever had with him

fascinating backstory I mean you could sit and talk and pick his brain for quite some time he is returning this Friday VFL interesting promotion they seem to be doing

some big things have some big plans big dreams big hopes and aspirations and he's by far the biggest name on this card this Friday so let's see

ice cream chrome I want to try that thing that he was doing with his stomach that breathing I'm not sure if I could pull it off, though. You see that, Frank? It looks dangerous.

It is a little dangerous. NGL. NGL. It's a little dangerous. But it seems very interesting, and it seems like it would be very, what's the word, that I'm not therapeutic, but medicinal in a way. Transcendental? Look at this, look at this right here.

Look at this. Could you imagine? when he started breathing it got very intense right literally says don't try this at home and you're like I think I'm going to

yeah yeah so I guess you could do it in the studio what about Mikey huh what about Mikey he needs to reach out to him

there was so much that I want to talk to him about but I felt at the end he had had enough so I was like okay I think we're good here it's a fascinating world the world of jiu-jitsu. There's a lot of interesting things going on right now, and he's sticking

with MMA. I feel like there would be a great demand to have him fight for one of the jiu-jitsu organizations out there. You know, there's UFCBJJ, there's CGI, there's other organizations like that as well, but he loves the fighting. He wanted to get back in there, and I'm looking forward to seeing him back in action this Friday. So like I said, in a about 11 minutes, the newest member of the MVP team, Caroline Dubois, sweet Caroline Dubois, undefeated WBC Lightweight Champion, who has been added to the December 19th, Jake Paul versus Anthony Joshua Card. She'll join us to explain why she left boxer to sign with MVP. I'm very interested in that as well. But shall we answer a few more threads, guys, while we have a second or two. Yeah, why not? We've got about 10 minutes.

I'm struggling a little bit with the names. Han Hewan asks question for Frank. Given that there are many people speaking on the show, how do you maintain a consistent volume throughout the show's duration? It's a great question. So I have to... And also, if you can also answer how you maintain, like, no crackling from the guest's microphones,

that's, I think, like a... You good? Yeah, no, I just wanted to know... You all right? Please, please. So a combination of things I have to use compressors have to ride the fader a little bit

and then there's this little thing called the Dugan Auto Mixer I should look into that Okay Would that be for the PTC issue? Keep going Okay, okay Keep going

Good to know, good to know Mark Carr 55 Since the Paramount deal got announced Nobody's asked Dana since But how do you think The champions are going to be compensated if at all now the paper you

another person asked that question and yeah they say they're going to figure it out they say they're going to figure it out so let us see

here's chasing ghost 9 what up Ariel shout it to the boys in the back and the goat pizza guys please rank these embarrassing moments well I could read them is there anyone there to rank them

perhaps Frank you want to rank them you've never done this before give it a really the only one that's going on. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Okay, here we go. You're the blind ranker. Getting called out for overreacting by your favorite fighter.

One. Okay. Getting blocked by one of your favorites on Instagram. Yeah, that's two. I'm sure Rick would have it one though. Shitting in your pants on a family trip. Also, one. I'm sure you would have it one.

and I'll go three. I actually didn't. I mean, I was 10 years old. But if you did it now? Yeah, sure, sure. That would be bad. And then there's one here that I'm not really sure what he's referring to, but I'll read it anyway. Kissing your mom's ass.

I'll go four, but I think Frank would probably, actually, Frank would probably have it four. He thought it was normal to do. Is it not? He tried to justify it a million times over. All right, all right. Create like Mike, would Dana always giving blind promises and circle back answers? Is it difficult for? for a media member to come up with timestamps

like you do during your segments? Or is it just a worry on not getting a credential? I'm not really sure what he's talking about. I guess he's talking about like when we go with the deep dive stuff. We're just trying to give you the news here. We're just trying to give you the facts. We're trying to keep everyone honest, keep everyone accountable.

And that's what I think about. I know everyone gets so hung up on the credentials and all this stuff. And I don't blame you when you have fighters like Camaro who use this as a sort of weapon. oh you're not invited you don't get I don't give a shit man we can watch the fights we can cover the fights we could talk to that what does that do what does that do yes in out I've never given a shit I mean there's many events I don't go because there's other ways that I think is there

a great value when I was younger absolutely but if you think that that's something we think about worry about that you can weaponize no we're trying to do the best show possible we're trying to tell you the truth. We're trying to give it to you straight, give it to you honest. That's what's most important. And my brain does work in a funky way. And we have great people who work on the show who remember things, who are able to pull things. And we're invested in this and love it and want to just keep everyone honest, I guess, I guess is the best way to put it. Jay Shuggy Man said, hi, Ariel, a longtime fan of the show from Toronto, especially a fan of the crack. I wanted to know you and the crew's thoughts on being a fan of two teams in the same

league. For me, my mom grew up in L.A. and indoctrinated me to the Kobe and Shaq Lakers, but being a native Torontonian, I have a ton of love for the Raptors, too. If they face each other in the finals, I'm cheering for the Lakers, but should my loyalty to them preclude my right to cheer for my hometown team, hashtag who's to check? This is something that comes up when a team joins a city and you've, like, a lot of people ask me, you know, if Montreal got a basketball team, or even, you know, even if once the Raptors came, would you stop being a Knicks fan? I can't do that. If I'm a fan of a team, and especially the Knicks and Bills and Expos were my favorite teams growing up,

I can't just switch. And so I understand if you grew up as a Lakers fan and now the Raptors come about and you're living there, you're going to be a fan. So that's acceptable. When people tell me I've got an East Coast team or an Eastern Conference team and a Western conference team, I think it's a weird. I also think it's weird that we try to gatekeep fandom. Who gives a fuck?

Be a fan of eight teams, if you want. Be a fan of 40 teams. I could not care less. I'm just saying, for me, it's hard to, I like to go all in. I like to be as passionate as possible. But there's obviously, when I was growing up, I loved the Knicks. I had a soft spot for the Warriors. Now, I'm talking about the run TMC Warriors.

I'm talking about the Tim Hardaway, Chris Mullen, Mitch Richmond. I love Mitch Richmond. I loved them on the Kings as well. I love the bullets. You know, when you're a kid, you like jerseys, you like players. I liked Weber when he was on the bullets for a cup of coffee. I liked them on the Warriors. Then he went to the Kings.

So I like that career trajectory. I like Garnett on the wolves. But you have your one team that you follow that you live and die with, and that's just the way I was as a fan. I'll tell you what, though. I am freaking, I know I speak for everyone in the back as well. Well, so freaking pumped, NBA Cup quarterfinals tonight, watch party? What are we doing, guys? Knicks Raptors 830, the battle to determine who's going to the semis?

Enjoy, man. I cannot wait. I cannot wait. I cannot wait. Two times, we're 0 for two in the quarterfinals. Oh, shit. You'll recall, of course. That's the crux for the New York Knicks, the quarterfinals of the NBA Cup.

You will recall it was this time last year, actually a Tuesday, second week of December. myself and the Great Action Bronson went to the quarterfinals Knicks Hawks Remember that? Trey Young Dice? Bounce them. Bounce them and then of course flamed out in Vegas. I want Vegas. I want to see the Knicks in Vegas on. By the way, I would love

I know people joke about it, I would love a banner. I would celebrate the banner. I want to see the Knicks celebrate something. Let's chill. I don't care on her drawer. I want the hat. I want the shirt. I'll put the freaking memorabilia here. Give me anything to celebrate. When they win the preseason summer league give me that i want that too anything to celebrate a nick's championship of any kind what would you compare it to of course listen like a carabao i know that there's a hierarchy i

get that but i'll still be happy nicks on top of the world put that fucking banner up there on top of the nba cup no the world okay caribout cup caribald cup i think is um i think caribal cup is premier league and championship this is just it would it would have to be a tournament that just involves the prem, right? F-A Cup is everything, so I don't think that's fair, but I think that's what they're trying to get to. Right, I don't think within the Premier League itself, there's like a meaningless tournament like this.

No, there's no meaningless tournament in any sport like this. That's what makes it so unique. That's why we love the cup. That's why we love the cup. And meaningless. Nah, 8.30 tonight I'm locked in. What year did it start? Because I remember we had some...

Two years ago. Fiery arguments on the air about whether it mattered or not. Oh, it matters. Trust me. I am locked. cannot wait. I actually am a little bit nervous because the Knicks are a horrible. They're a horrible road team. Cats injured, Duce is injured. I feel like we're going to lose again. And we know they're shit in quarterfinals of the NBA Cup. Yeah, there's shit in the NBA playoffs and in the NBA

Cup. What color is the court tonight? Don't get me started on the court. I hate the court. The court's the only part that I hate. If I'm being honest, I despise the court. The rest I love and I can't wait to watch them in the semis and then finals next week. It's going to be great. Oh, my kids and I, we have a whole plan. We're going to have a party. It's going to be great. Order some pizza? Sharing it with your kids does make it. Hell yeah. I've even floated the idea of going to Vegas Saturday morning to the semis if they make it.

That'd be pretty cool. In person? We will be there. We will be there. All right. More questions back end. But breaking news this morning, we woke up to the news that Caroline Dubois, one of the very best female boxers in the world. Undefeated WBC lightweight champion has left boxer and signed with MVP.

They continue to add to their growing stable of female. fighters. It's an unbelievable stable at this point. And not only has she signed, I actually had to read the fine print twice. She's been added to the December 19th card, undercard of the Jake Joshua card that's going down in, what, 10 days from now. There it is against Camilla Panada defending her WBC lightweight title. That's, again, in a little over a week's time. So what a nice treat that is for that card that continues to grow as well. I think it's finalized now. But I wanted to have her on to explain to us how this all came about, why she left Boxer to sign with MVP, how she's fighting in 10 days time, all that and more. She is kind enough to join us from

beautiful sunny Miami. There she is. Hello, Caroline. How are you? I'm very well. Thank you and yourself. Thank you for having me. Oh, it's a great pleasure to have you on. And congratulations on this news as well. And so let us get into it. Why did you decide to leave Boxer and why did you decide to sign with MVP? it was a decision that took a lot of thought it was a long process we've been talking back and forth with the Kesa with the representatives from MVP

and it was just one of the moves that made the most sense obviously I'm at this point in my career right now where sky's the limit and there's such a massive ceiling and there's so much on the line for myself you know I want to become undisputed I want to do this I want to do that and we have to make the decision in terms of what's going to be the best route

to get me to where I want to be and MVP has signed up a lot of the females in my division they're constantly putting the money where the mouth is back in supporting and investing women's boxing and I feel like it was it would have been stupid not to sign with them

did boxer try to resign you they did they did Ben came with an offer and it just couldn't compete what MVP was offering and it's a shame obviously but um i feel like i'm at this point right now where i need to be selfish and i need to think about what's going to push the car and the bar train as far and as fast as it can go and i feel like MVP is the best route for that you had your last

fight in march that was under the the boxer umbrella did you know back then that you were likely going to go elsewhere or did you think at the time that you were going to stick around I did think that I would be sticking around obviously we all knew that the Sky deal and Boxer deal was up in the air and it was really dependent on how that played out obviously when Sky left their association with a boxer then that was another factor we had to take into and when when that happened it was like okay so now that the money is not going to be there the the shows the numbers of shows will probably decrease we start looking elsewhere and obviously MVP were very very very strongly wanting to meet me, wanted to, they made a massive effort, they sent an offer,

we refused it, they sent another one, we refused that one, and then they came with an offer that was just impossible to refuse, and it just showed, it went to show how much they wanted me, and that's what I want to be, I want to be valued, and I feel like MVP will definitely do that. If we would have spoken maybe a year ago, right, December of 24, January of 25, and I would have told you you would end 2025 as a member of MVP, the Jake Paul promotional company, which of course has become so much more than that,

but I obviously know that he's so synonymous with the brand and with the promotion. Would you have ever believed that? It wouldn't have been an insane prediction just because if you see how hard and how strongly they're backing women's boxing and they sign so many women, it wouldn't have been an insane thought,

but if I'm being honest, I would have thought I would have stayed with Sky Sports, saved with probably Boxer if they remained with Sky. But obviously when that came up in the end and they lost that deal together, I think it would have been definitely a strong option, MVP. So I'm happy, you know, I'm very happy. A week ago, Ben Shalom did an interview with Ring Magazine.

I just want to read you the quote about at the time he was asked whether or not you were still with Boxer. And the quote was, we're in a situation now where we have to make decisions on who we can really invest in, who's going to sell tickets, who's going to perform, who's going to do big viewing numbers, and that's where we have to make decisions. What did you make of that quote? Because it sounds like you had already heard it, seen it.

What did you make of that when you heard that? No, I heard, when I first read that, I'll be honest, the first reaction was to be slightly offended because, you know, Ben did try very hard to resign me. But then I was actually sitting down in the living with my sister. and I first read the quote watched the interview and I was like oh what's he trying to say and I showed it to my sister and she was like oh

and I was like isn't that slightly offensive and she was like no but think about it from his point of view what can he say you know he's obviously boxing is in such an interesting situation you know all the promoters are trying to get at each other they want to kick each other when they're down and obviously

me leaving him is going to be a tough soft spot for him and he tried to negate it and make it seem a different type of way. So I understand why he said that, and I understand, I wish him the best, and I believe that if he, if he's in it for the long run, he will be able to come through whatever this, I guess this dip is that he is going through right now.

But, yeah, I'm not really upset by it anymore. It doesn't really matter to me. I'm focused on my own career, my own journey. I think you'll see that, you know, Karen DeBarshi brings everything that he says he is looking for. It's just, unfortunately, that he can't bring what I'm looking for. And what would that be? What were you looking for that he couldn't bring?

Well, he wouldn't be able to make the interpromotional fights with, say, the Alicia's, the Terry Harper's, Stephanie Hans and Holly Holmes. They're all with MVP. He would have to give a ridiculous offer to them. And I don't think that he would be able to do that. I don't think he would be able to put the fight on in terms of the amount of shows that he has. I don't know if he will be able to push me the way that I would want to be pushed, you know. Obviously, the BBC is a massive, massive view of viewing platform in England, but it hasn't got that international level. It hasn't got that international platform.

And that's why I'm at right now. I need to be pushed on a broader scale, on a bigger scale. I need to be involved in the biggest fights possible. And I feel like MVP, either they have all the fighters or they will definitely make a big push to make them happen. And by the way, I appreciate what you're saying and I appreciate you taking the high road. devil's advocate when you say like what else is he going to say I mean he could say we had a great run we're figuring things out and you know if it doesn't work out I wish her all the best I felt like that was an unnecessary shot at you that was just the way I read it and and to be honest when I read it

I thought to myself oh she's leaving I didn't know where you were ending up I mean I saw the rumors that you were going to maybe look at MVP and obviously you wouldn't have to be a rocket scientist to think that you'd want to be there given the 135ers they have but it felt like you guys did some great stuff there was no need for that out the door no 100% i agreed i when i first read it and saw it i felt pretty offended but you know i think with all this stuff you know you've got eddie head i'm constantly sniping at him and trying to yes it's a lot of drama over there all this stuff and everybody's trying to you know kick somebody when they're down or or take the piss out somebody when they they lose a fight so i think you just tried to say something before they said

something, just to make it seem not so bad. But, you know, I don't really, it doesn't really bother me. I'm focused on my own journey right now. I'm focused on what Karen Du Bois is doing and what Karen Du Bois is doing is big things. Yes, and it all starts in 10 days. Was that always part of the plan and we just found out or is this coming together rather quickly for you? It is coming together really quickly. The shortest notice for a fight that I've had previously, but luckily, we stay ready. I was preparing for a decision. 20th card and that was potentially if I read sign with boxer so I was preparing for that was training I've been in the gym so that's why this made sense we

found out about this fight very recently and we just had to accept it it's such a massive platform obviously we knew we were going to sign with MVP so to jump on such a platform just made the most sense and when they offered us the date we're like we're ready let's take it by the way Queensberry not really in the women's boxing business but but Eddie Hearn and Matrum very much are still did you talk to them as well um we did it we didn't I think we were focused on no no no we didn't that surprises me and it wasn't it wasn't anything negative you know it wasn't any negativity towards either Queensbury or Matrim or anything like that

I just I said to myself in my head what is the biggest platforms that are going to get me the biggest rights and I said it's it's gonna be I ever SkySport or it's going to be MVP. And MVP have all the women that I want to fight. It just makes the most sense. And we had to go there. Okay, so you mentioned four. You mentioned Alicia Baumgartner,

who's also on the card on December 19th. You mentioned Terry Harper. You mentioned Holly Holme and Stephanie Hahn, who are fighting on January 3rd in Puerto Rico. Can you rank them for me in terms of who you want to fight the most, Talis, one to four? that's hard because I want to fight all of them or it's more of like what I guess

in what order would I want to fight them so I would say Terry Harper the winner of either Stephanie Hahn-Hawley home and obviously Tehran Garner okay so Barm Garner at the bottom of that for now yeah okay why Harper first

I feel like you want to avoid that fight why Harper first we're both British girls I think it makes the most sense I know that MVP are going to really push to make an all-female show in a not all-female sorry British show and if that happens I think that fight makes the most sense right now we're kind of similar in where we're coming at and I just think it makes the most sense

it does the most talking she said some words to me I've said some words to her, and, you know, I want to see if she's back in herself as much as she seems to talk online. And I believe that fight makes a lot of sense. And it makes a lot of sense to make it happen next. I interrupted you when you were talking about Alicia. You said that you think she's going to avoid the fight? 100%. She will.

She will try to say, you know, what is Karen done? You know, she's not on my level. But if you're being honest right now, I think she needs me just as much as I need her. You know, I think women's boxing needs to have big fights. happen, you know, we're missing out on that, unfortunately. And she needs to be involved in a big fight. She hasn't been involved in a big fight for a long time. And I think me versus Alessia Bangalama is a massive fight.

I think it's the biggest fight in women's boxing. But obviously, for that to happen, it needs to be built up. It needs to have the needle. It needs to have the belts on the line. And the way that we can do that is by me unifying and collecting as many belts as I can. And I know that she won't want to fight me unless I bring a massive dangling carrot to motivate her to get in the room.

What do you think of her performance in July? I wasn't too impressed, but I think a lot of people aren't impressed. And I think, to be honest, she wouldn't have been too happy with that performance. And it happens, you know, sometimes you underperform, sometimes you underestimate your opponent. And I think probably she underestimated her opponent. And it was just a poor performance. And I'm sure she would agree. I hope that this next weekend

she brings back what we expect every time you see Elyssia. I want to see her bring power, explosiveness, and hopefully get the knockout. And if she can do that, then we're back on. Holly is a legend in the game. Obviously, boxing hall of famer will become a UFC Hall of Famer, no doubt.

And now to see her back at this age winning her debut with MVP back in June and this massive fight coming up in just a couple of weeks' time, Are you surprised that she's still doing this at this level, given everything she's been through? No, I think if you look at Holly's character, she seems like a gym rat. She seems like one of them women, you have to drag out the gym. And that can be a boxing gym, a running gym, a Muay gym, or a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu gym.

She seems like one of the women who just love to fight, love to train, love to test herself and challenge herself. So it came to no surprise to see her want to go back and sit there. the boxing world. I was surprised how quickly the opportunity for her to fight for a world title came about, but it makes sense. And I'll be very interested in fighting the win of that. There was once a time where you were talking about the likes of Katie Taylor. Do you still hold out hope that that could be possible?

Nah, not at all. To be honest, and I know I probably shouldn't say this, but I genuinely don't want to fight her. It doesn't really make any sense for either of us. I think she's on a different trajectory. I think I'm in a really amazing spot right now where I don't need to be chasing one individual person. I can focus on my own career

and I know there's some really exciting fights ahead of me. Girls that are in their prime. Alicia Bamgardiner is in a prime. If I beat her, when I beat her, sorry. Nobody's going to say I fought an old Alicia Bangana. No one's going to say I fought a girl that was out of a prime. When I fight and I beat Aleph Tahrang, Nobody's going to say I got a washed up girl, you know.

Nobody's going to say these things. Whereas if I went for Katie Taylor, it doesn't matter what happens. People are going to say, you know, it's a lose-lose situation for me. And I'm not really interested in that fight. It just doesn't do it for me. I'm chasing big names that are relevant and in their prime that excite me that cause me to be a little bit anxious, cause me to feel that. And I really want that.

And I feel like I'm so blessed right now. I'm young, 24. I don't need to be chasing one person. It doesn't motivate me or do anything for it. There was a story that came out last week of her in talks to fight Ronda Rousey. I don't know how valid this is. I think it's just something that's trying to be put out there to see if there's any interest. But what do you think would happen if Ronda Rousey fought Katie Taylor in a boxing match?

That's a crazy fight. That's all I can say. That's a crazy fight. I think Ronda and correct me if I'm wrong, but surely she's one of the worst strikers in the UFC. So you add that on top of the fact that she herself said she was dealing with extreme concussions. You know, anything could cause her to get a concussion, anything could cause her to get knocked out. I remember she did that podcast.

And it just doesn't make a lot of sense. Obviously, if it makes money, it makes sense. And I'm sure it makes a lot of money. So if it happens, it happens. I think that's the kind of fight that Katie Taylor wants to be involved in those cash-out fights. You can't hate her for that. You know, you see other fighters doing it. You see Anthony Joshua doing it, tank doing it.

Why are we going to slag off Katie Taylor? She can do whatever she wants right now. She's in that position. It's a pure money grab and let her do it. You know, kudos to her. Do you, you know, it doesn't really interest me. The state of women's boxing right now, I feel like it has gotten a big jolt with all of you coming together under the MVP umbrella.

Are there other fighters who are outside of MVP that you would like to see them sign. It seemed like they were close to getting Clarissa. She chose to re-sign with Salita. She would have been a big one. Is there anyone out there outside of the orbit that you would like to? I have a name, but I'm wondering if you have a similar name. I would have loved to see them sign Cluster Shields, as you said. I would like to see them sign Michaela May. I think she'll be a really good addition. That was the one, by the way. That was the one on my mind. Yeah. Yeah. We're both thinking the same thing. That's right. No, I think Michaela would have been a really good addition.

She talks the talk. She can back it up in the ring. She brings everything. I think that would have been a really solid sign in. It'd be interesting to see what Lauren Price does. Maybe even Gabriella Fondora would be a really good show. That would be the other one. That would be the other one. Yeah, she's unbelievable

as of late. And for you, first time fighting outside of England as a pro. What does that mean to you? Is that another check off the Is that something that you were striving for? Yes. I think every kid who gets into boxing, imagine fighting at the MSG. Imagine fighting at the Barclay Center.

Imagine fighting in America, Las Vegas. I've got the opportunity to take off that dream so early in my career. It's amazing. Growing up watching Floyd Mayweather, watching Triple G, getting up in the morning to watch Canelo, to watch Mike Tyson, all of those things. And now I'm fighting in America is just unbelievable. I'm so excited.

It just feels so surreal, to be honest. I can't wait to just go out there and, you know, touch the American audience. You know, I've been fighting at home for so long and I've built a really solid fan base in England. And now it's time to do the same thing across the pond in America. And I think America has a really strong boxing fan base. And it's got that, you know, that deep culture of boxing and the people who would appreciate that. And I think hopefully I go down well over there. By the way, not trying to have you speak for him, but just curious, are we going to see your brother anytime soon?

Any words on when he might reemerge? I'm sure he's working on something. He's obviously in the gym. He's working with his new coach. And he's just, I think, you know, trying to find that connection and just work on himself. I think he's in that building, rebuilding phase. And you can't really blame him. He's had some really good fights, been involved in some really.

big fights and hard fights as well. So he's just probably recollecting himself and just rebuilding himself. He's the last man to fight and, of course, beat Anthony Joshua. I know you're new to the family, so I'm not trying to have you speak ill of Jake. But seriously, what do you make of this fight? And what do you make of his decision to take this fight after the tank fight fell through? It's a very brave fight. And it says a lot about his character.

It says a lot about what he is trying to do in the sport. boxing you know you have a superstar in boxing in terms of Anthony Joshua and you've got a superstar in the world and that he brings outside of boxing world he brings the just the normal casual fans and you've got two superstars colliding I think it can only do massive things for boxing and it is doing massive things you know you've got Netflix coming in and it's him he's the one doing that so he's an entrepreneur he's a big thinker he thinks outside of the box and you've got Anthony Joshua is just a killer in the ring and it's going to be really interesting to see what happens. I think the only thing we can do as the fans is just come with an open mind, come with no

expectations and just really just appreciate the show because that's what it is, two guys, putting it all on the line, willing to entertain themselves, entertain us and doing it in one of the most dangerous sports in the world. So hats off to both guys. All I can say is I hope they leave the ring healthy, safe, and, you know, just fulfilled that they did a really good job. Do you have a pick? Do you have a prediction? I can't do that. I know, I know, I know. I'm being cheeky.

I know, no, no, no, no, no. It's all good. It's all good. It's all good. The smile says it all. The smile says it all. All good. And I appreciate that. By the way, no pre-fight parties on the day of the fight, all right? None of that stuff over in Miami. No, that's about to me, Ariel. None of that drama.

None of that drama. You're just in a nice hotel over there. There's no mansions or any nice houses to go to over there. It's very normal over in South Beach. There's no parties. There's no distractions of any kind. No. No, it's straight focus.

We're hair for business. I said it to my coach, you know, I'm here to make money, not spend money. So I'm just hair completely focused, locked in. And I honestly can't wait. My last week of proper training and then it's five week, and I can't wait to experience it. Well, I can't wait to witness it in person. Looking forward to being there next week.

Looking forward to formally meeting you in person, but great to have you on here for a few minutes. Congratulations, have loved what you've done as of late, as a pro. Obviously, you're running the Olympic Games as well. You have flown the flag very proudly, and it's great to see you get this opportunity. So good luck, congrats, and thank you for giving us some time

and looking forward to December 19th for you. Thank you. The pleasure was all mine. I can't wait to see you next week, Ariel. Hopefully we can catch up in person over there. Looking forward to it. Thank you, Caroline. Appreciate it.

There she is. The great Caroline Dubois, the undefeated WBC lightweight champion, lovely fighter, lovely person, and a big opportunity for her December 19th, rapidly approaching. And I did let you know that on December the 18th, in Miami, in the 305, one of my favorite cities in the world. Not a big fan of their sports teams, but love the city, love the weather, love the environment, love the people. love everything about it, love the food. We will be having another Halwani Roadshow. So this is your formal, save the date.

Location, TBA, fee, not required. Password, not required username. Not required. Do you all see them, though? Yeah, that's a good one, Frank. That was a good one, Frank. Man, MVP. I wonder if they have on their website.

Most valuable promotion. I wonder if they have the full list of fighters that they now, like, who would have thought after all this time? Athletes, okay. Here we go, here we go. Dina Thorsland, Amanda Serrano. How many do they have? Golly.

Okay, I'm not going to read them all. They've got a ton. As far as women go, they have one, two, three, four, five. nine, 13, 17, it appears. I don't know if Caroline is on here. Is she on here? No. And then a whole bunch of male fighters as well. It's really turned into something. Now, I will say they've got a lot of British fighters and in particular female British fighters. They could put on a nice little UK show here. You've got Terry Harper, you've got Caroline Dubois, Ellie Scotney, Savannah Marshall, Chantelle Cameron. I'm missing some names here, unless things have changed as of

late. I don't see. Oh no, she's there. All right. Yeah, I mean, those are five pretty damn big names in their own right. So maybe they'll do that in 20, 26. Okay, great stuff there. Appreciate it very much. Can I tell you about tomorrow's show? Tomorrow's show is something. Let me get a see. Tomorrow on the program, guys, Jalen Turner, the tarantula. We've got the pride of Scotland. Chris Duncan. We've got Mr. I am happy, thank you, Tatsuro, Tyra. That would be able to drop. I'm happy to go!

Felt like the perfect, you know. Working on a potential new UFC bantamweight champion working on it, and then the big one, Le Predator Francise and Ganoo. And I would say there's a lot to talk to him about. So Francis, yeah, no, I mean, there's a lot to talk to Francis about, and that will all be going down tomorrow. And we will also, I want to let you know, do another on the nose for all of you, because we have so many great ones on the substack. We've been focusing on the threads. Let me get to a few other threads here.

It's been such a great day with our new friends over at Threads. I really wanted to give them all the attention in the world. Going into 2026 is from T. Brone 23. going to 2026, there will be no current male champion with the title defense. Is that fair to Tom? I don't know. At the end of their range, who racks up the most defenses? Of the current champions, who will rack up the most defenses? Islam?

Hamzat. I think Hamzat. I think with Hamzad is going to be activity. How active can he be? You know, Marab was so active, and he racked up a bunch. It's really going to be activity, in my opinion. Let's see what else there is here. Let me get a good one here. Stephen Kempa, how would you describe the pay-per-view era to a new fan?

Are you worried the magic we've enjoyed through this era might fade? Thanks for all you do. It's not just the pay-per-view era. I'm talking like, man, even young Mansour talking to me about, like, those old days. There was something about when they first got on Spike and the magic, if I could explain to you the magic, of this thing that was only on pay-per-view for the longest time and then gets on Spike TV sparingly once every three, four months. And then the niblets of a countdown show after a T&A impact that would get over a million viewers. That's how much we were starving for MMA content. Having that

felt so fresh, so fun. I always say it wasn't, back in the day, it was like, hey, do you want to watch UFC tonight? I would have a good friend John Beer. It's like, do you want to watch UFC? because there's a UFC event today, and it was yes automatically. Now, I would imagine it would be who's fighting. Oh, I don't know who that is. I don't know who that is. There has been a McDonaldization of the sport, and anyone who tells you otherwise is just not telling you the truth.

And I get it. Once they went to Fox, Fox asked for a larger menu. They wanted a fuller slate of fights, and the UFC, you know, was happy to oblige for the money, and then ESPN wanted the same, and now Paramount wants the same. But here's the thing. There is no, you look at those paper views from back of the day. You look at those fight nights from back of the day.

And there was a standard as far as how many fights, wins, losses, how big and how, you know, stack the cards were. Now, you know, we're going Gaga for a fight card, a pay-per-view card that has three, four really good fights at the top. Back of the day, and I'm not trying to be, you know, Mr. Unk here, but it was like 9-10, top to bottom. You knew every fighter. There was some footage of the arena on Saturday. there was some footage of T-Mobile how empty it was early on in the card and that's kind of Vegas to a degree

that's kind of the way it's become but that wasn't really the case for the UFC back then like the UFC always prided itself on this place is like 65, 70% full from the jump because everyone cares about every single fight on the card and I know that ticket sales have affected things as far as like the price of tickets

and just the the watering down and the McDonaldization, as I say, of the sport, but I will forever look back on 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, up until 16 or so, I will forever look back on that period as just something supremely special. There was just something different about it. The characters, the fighters, the personalities,

the way they were able to showcase their personalities, no uniform, the amount of events that were happening was much less, so it felt big. you were jonesing for it. I can guarantee you this. And this will be the best way to describe it. Come January 24th, it will be six weeks in between events. I can guarantee you that we will all be foaming at the mouth. We will all be missing it. And we don't get that enough. So sometimes a little bit less is more. A little bit less is more. But when there's so much money involved, I get it. What does Mofsar Evloev have to do to get a title shot? This is from Evan Fulger. I think he has

to beat Lorone Murphy in spectacular fashion in London. This is from our favorite fighters. What fighters surprised you most in 2025? Golly, I mean, who surprised us most? I mean, if you would have told me at the beginning of the year that Josh Van and Peter Yan were the champions in their respective weight classes, I'm not sure I would have believed you.

So let's start with them. Walter Cortez-A Costa? Let's start with them. Yeah, Alexa L. Schlemmer. Do you think bringing back Muhammad McHive is a good idea. Yes. Bring him back. Come on, man. Bring him back. I think he's paid his fine, his debt to society. Best Christmas slash holiday memory. I was trying to explain this to my kids recently. They're big on presents for Hanukkah. We didn't get presents for Hanukkah when I was a

kid. Hanukkah was just like lighting the candles. That's fucking illegal. Nah, I'm telling you, we'd get like a little Hanukkah gelt. We get a couple draodles and that was it. Now, you know, I feel like, and I get it, you know, everyone wants to be the same, but Hanukkah, to me, was never a present holiday. It was about family. It was about food. It was about lighting the candles. When I think of Hanukkah as a kid, again, I didn't grow up celebrating Christmas.

I loved Christmas. I loved Christmas movies, Home Alone. I went to see it four times in theaters. I used to listen to the Time Life Treasury of Christmas CD in my car. I had a T.J., a Jeep T. Some will call it a Wrangler as well. And I would listen to that in July. That's how much I loved Christmas music

and the holiday spirit and all that stuff despite the fact that I hate the cold. But we'd go on vacation sometimes, you know, we'd be off from school, two weeks, we'd go somewhere, and my dad would always bring a portable Hanukia, menorah, and it would be like these little things

that were these little like capsules that would have oil in them and a little wick, and every day he would like pop one open and it would just break it down for you. Sort of like a triangle and it would go like day by day by day because you have to do it, you know, for eight straight nights and one candle on the first night, two on the second, three, but you start over every night.

And when I think of Hanukkah for some reason, I always think of that. I always think of, I don't know, him bringing that and it being very important for him to do it and to keep it up. And now I do the same with my kids as well. Here's Youngmar. No question, can I just get a go-bills. young mar you can get more than that we are going to waltz into foxborough this sunday and we are going to

remind these johnny come lately's these posers these what have you done for me lately's or we'll remind them who's who in the aFCs we're going to remind them who's who in the aFCs it's right there it is right freaking there i don't know if we'll ever be more right there and we have a very flawed roster in particular when it comes to the offensive weapons in particular when it comes to the wide receivers. It is very flawed. But look at them. Look at them on Sunday. Back against the wall. Joe Uncool in town. And I like Joe Burrow. I'm not trying to be a hater towards Joe Burrow. I know he's a big MMA fan. Shout out to him. But to pull that win out, to have a win over Pat Mahomes, to have a win over Lamar Jackson and a win over Joe Burrow in the year 2025.

And sure, there were some bad losses. I mean, there were some bad losses. Lost to Tua. lost to some Michael Pennix David Willis Like who are these guys I mean they can't even hold Josh Allen

Anyway It's right there It's wide open The teams I was most worried about At the beginning of the season The Ravens The Chiefs and the Lions There's a chance

All three don't make the playoffs Isn't that crazy I think it's crazy. Apple Kittle, or Kyle. Hi, Ariel and crew. I have a film company in Australia. I'm so happy to hear you're investing in uncrowned films. MMA is one of the most story-rich sports,

and there's so much we can learn as humanity from the tales within it. Would you ever consider coming to Australia or investing in covering the MMA scene? I would love nothing more. I want to go to an internal MMA show led by the great Cam O'Neill. I want to be there. I want to witness it. I want to experience it. I love Australia.

The problem is we do this show every day. So when are we going to go? Are we going to do the show out there? It's just a whole thing. How do we do both? And I do want to let you know that our next uncrowned film will be coming out next Wednesday, December 17th. So a very exciting week coming your way next week. December 17th, uncrowned film.

Number two. Thursday, December 18th. Hawani Roadshow. Friday, December 19th. Jake Paul, Anthony Joshua, and then our final show of 2025, at least live show, will be on December 22nd that Monday. Bucking Bronco 88, hi Ariel, longtime fan of the show here from Hervey Bay, Queensland, Australia. Quick one for you, do you remember those late 90s, early 2000s, WWs, the ones with the epic music, the storytelling, the hype that made every match feel massive? Yeah, of course.

What's the most famous one? Check, check out. Check, check out. Check out. Check out my melody. Sing it, Frank. Just one more than, and I'll be history. And I...

I think they tried to recreate that with that Kellerman promo a couple of shows ago. You know the MSG one? Didn't quite hit the same. Anyway, do you think UFC promos today stack up against those classic WWP promos? no how about this one D PB1033 do you think Mansour Abdul Malik

could be the next star to be pushed in 2026 he had an incredible outing guys by the way I mean kind of blown away by this young man right what a personality what a vibe you love the vibes from him optimism

oh my God through the roof that's one of those guys like you see him on the car and you're like oh this guy looks good And then you talk to him and you're like, holy shit, I want the best for this guy and then some, you know? Also, I love that he goes and watches old countdowns. Oh, my God.

How cool was that? Amazing. Another one from DPB, with all the extra time between fights this year because of the Paramount deal, any new segments or something to get excited for in a potential slow period, enjoy all of the content and cannot wait. Yeah, we'll be here. Don't worry. The interesting one's going to be in February for us, right?

guys. Can't wait. Danan, Danan, Danan, Danan Danan Danan Danan Drew Sokoff.

Not sure if this is a sensitive topic, but I remember that you were supposed to have Connor on the show and it didn't come to fruition. Any update on when he'll be on the show? Who's to check? Look, we announced

that he was going to be on. He was supposed to come on. And the truth is, I got a call, not from him, but other people saying there are certain things you couldn't talk about, you couldn't ask about. I said I can't agree to that.

and we decided to save it for another time. And we decided that, you know, it wasn't in our best interest to do an interview like that. And that's the truth. And so everyone who thought that, you know, we were left at the altar, that wasn't the case. I can't do an interview and I can't be told

I can't speak about certain things. Now, I'll tell you what, I did speak to Connor, and he assured me that when the time was right, we will talk about those things. And I can't wait to talk about those things because I think that there's a lot to talk about. but I can't be on here talking about BKFC and stuff like that

and we would get to that we have to talk about other things too and I don't like when you know we agree to an interview and and then you know last minute it's it's told to me that we can't talk about certain things I would have never announced it I would have never agreed to it and and again those were other people and then we spoke and we were all good didn't there's no hard feeling I feel like we made the right call. They feel like they made the right call. And I hope down the line that we can talk about things,

and I think we will. G.C., Jacob 2Maye wants to know if you remember who the main event of UFC Moncton was. Moncton? No, unfortunately, I don't. Do you know? No. UFC Moncton.

God, that's a card that I would want to go to. I feel like it was Derek Lewis. Derek Lewis loves to main event a Nova Scotia. Wow, this is a great one. Volcanozdemir versus Anthony Smith. What was this run that they went on in the late 2010s of just going to the most random Canadian cities? Eastern Canada, yeah, really weird. I love it.

They were really investing in UFC Canada back then. Fuck, bring it back, man. The Avenir Center. Yes, Ascotun. Halifax. Oh, man. Shout out. That's one I'd love to cross off the bucket list.

Josh Johnson 101. How does the boxing world react if Jake Paul KOs Anthony Joshua live on Netflix? I think most people will say, oh, the fix, right? The fix. AJC91 asked if we can give him a teaser for the next uncrowned film. Some people have teased it already, unbeknownst to us.

But it's coming out next Wednesday. We'll tell you more about it next week. How about that? But next Wednesday, 1 p.m. Eastern, mark your calendars, December 17th. It's going to be lit. Declan J. Byrne, have I read some signals wrong, or are you going to be working on the upcoming World Cup? No World Cup for me as of now.

We are going to the Olympics. But as of now, no World Cup would love to do it. So if anyone wants to hire us, we'd love to be there. Last one, ASAP OX3, why is Kayla Harrison the only fighter under Ali to defy his rule of fighters not appearing on your show? Is she just badass? And the other fighters are not? Yes, that is precisely it.

She's got bigger Cajonas than all of them. She's her own woman. She thinks for herself. And she understands the concept of representation. And allow me to explain you the concept of representation. The agent slash manager works for the. fighter slash client. The fighter slash client pays the agent slash manager. And so given that financial relationship, this person, fighter, client, who is paying this person, manager, agent, tells this person,

this person what to do and what they will do and won't do, and surely is not going to take any cues from someone telling them what not to do. And so Kayla and I have had a great relationship for a long time. She's a woman of her own conviction. She has her own thoughts. And she says, look, peace and love, peace and love. I'm going to do what I want. You have your own deal. Great. But I'm going to do what I want. And I respect her infinitely for that. I've had other fighters text me and be like, would love to come on. And that's fine. I don't not respect them. The one that I don't respect is the one telling their fighters not to come on because of zero actual factual reason other than to better their own position with the company that they're

supposed to go to battle with and negotiate with and try to have good relationships with and try to be in good standing with, but also try to do what's best for their client, not what's best for them. Frank, any superchats? No, Sir Chats.

Deshank writes, any chance of you appearing on the prop quiz after a fun debut by the Boys in the event? You may be the final boss. I saw that. I saw that guys. Yeah, shout out to Long Island Luke, Main Card Minute. It was fun. Trivia Can I ask a spoiler?

Can I ask a spoiler question? Yeah, I mean, it's been out for four or five days now. Nah, maybe I won't. I wanted to ask who won, but I... What do you think? I don't want to... What do you think? You already know the answer.

All right, all right. Okay, this is good. No, it was good. I was watching some of it. I even commented on it. Yeah, saw. Good stuff, good stuff. It was very, it was very creative.

I appreciate the TLC that went into it. Who's to check was a category. I know. I saw a lot of show-inspired themes. By the way, that number, what was that 400 at the top of that super chat? What was that one? 400.

What is that? Things. Dollars right there. Shout out. Shout out. What else? Gabe P12 says, You move into threads means Zuck might make an appearance. I think this guy wrote on my threads.

Shout out to Zuck. Shout out to Gabe. And look, we're here. We're neighbors with Meta. So pull up. Come through. true those were rupees by the way okay well shout out to them oh what else frank what else banana breakdown how did gc like dave's hot chicken over the weekend uh wasn't able to make it in still

have not had uh dave's hot chicken yet oh one to cross off the bucket list though everyone keeps asking me about it so i got to try it do they have do they have one here in new york oh yeah they got several okay okay okay i dig it i dig it oh what else frank what else rute j h4 you get jack colored one in 100 on. Dude's story is crazy. Hmm. Hmm. I don't know who that is.

Who is that? You should know. There's a story up on Crown saying... Oh, yes. Of course. I have 1001 wins. Okay, I was thinking UFC. Yes, that's a great story by Lewis Watson.

It's a great story. Yeah, for some reason I was thinking of UFC fighter. I was also reading this quote here from Marab. The UFC contacted me and said, please rest as long as you want. your next fight is a rematch with pierre yan for the belt rest as long as you want and call us when you're ready they probably want to do the fight in the summer but I don't want to wait until the summer I want to schedule

the fight early maybe in the spring in April would be good or maybe the fight can be scheduled in the summer all right well that's good news sucks for you Rick oh what else Frank what else electric boots Mansour watching a 8 show in a candlelit room listening to Ariel talk about shitting his pants on a bus

in Egypt that's pretty great by the way nice stuff from Marab and Peter Yan on Twitter guys have you seen this Marab saying thank you for the support much love much love Jan writing quick recovery see you thought that was nice also Jan hoping for the best as far as Marab's journey to find a wife and kids in 2026 my friend you need wife and kids I'm looking my friend this is incredible credible what else frank what else create like mike hey crew love everything at uncrowned been a fan

since aOL that deep dive slash credential question was no dig more asking why media don't check dana at events keep doing what you're doing at yeah yeah who please don't i don't know i don't know about that um but we're we're doing it here number one unbiased it's great stuff we're eating here right we're eating would you say we're eating we're eating right we are Sort of like Armand Sarukian in the Caucasus Mountains. Another one has dropped. Tell your loved ones. Hey, babe, wake up.

Another Armand video has dropped. Do we have it? Do we have it? Oh, look at this. This might be the best one yet. What is he eating? Ossetian pies. Yeah, an Ossetian pie.

Oh, what is that? What is that? It's bread stuffed with like cheese and meat. Oh, my dear. It looks fantastic. Yeah, it's of the Caucasus region. You know, I actually had Georgian food the other week again. And it's truly, it's fantastic.

A little hankali. Where, where, where? Ah, you know, around. What do you mean? Around. You know, it's my neighborhood joint. Okay. There's a neighborhood joint that sells Georgian food?

Yeah, there's several Georgian restaurants here in the city. Okay. They're great. Also, wanted to give a congratulations, a muzzle tov to the Rock. He was nominated for a Golden Globe, I do believe it is. Does anyone know about that? For Smashing Machine, eh? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So Christopher Nolan said it was an unbelievable performance. Yeah, there it is. Best Male Motion Picture Drama, Dwayne Johnson. Look at those names, big rocks up there with. Michael B, Jeremy Allen White. Oh, yeah. Oscar Isaac. Oh, yeah.

Oscar Isak. Did you guys happen to see that there's, did you happen to see that there's best podcast for the Oscars. Oh, shit. Did you see that? No, I didn't. Yeah. Who's nombed? Rogan didn't get nominated. We didn't get nominated. That too. No, I think there was a big, uh, there was a big uproar about that. I think he should have been nominated. I mean, he's probably the biggest podcast in the world, right? Influential, I would say. I think, uh, Golden Globes. Golden Globes or Oscars? Golden Globes. Are you sure? Who's to check? It was to check. That's probably why I saw it.

Who's to check. Can someone call Petty, by the way? I just wanted to him to come on for two minutes. 30 million for the kitchen scrap. No, no, no, no. There he is. Hey, Pizzi? Someone call him real quick. I want to tell him something. Can you just call him? I mean, no, I want him to be on the screen.

All right. Can someone tell him to jump on for two minutes before we go? Yeah. Real quick, real quick. Yeah, we'll tell him. Okay, what else, Frank? You did also already tell him. What else, Frankie? What else? Lazybed M.A. G.C. must be a querious how he has been bearing that water. Wow, wow, wow, wow. Yeah, why was that such a topic of discussion in the chat?

Okay, well, here's what happened. all of a sudden, Crohn, like, looks at me like this, and the eyes, they don't lie. And what the eyes told me in that moment was, I won out of here. I thought he was going to puke. I'm not going to lie.

I thought he was mid-sentence, and then he was like, all right, bye. Could I, uh... Yeah. Could I get some water? By the way, that was the long, I don't know how long that was,

two minutes, three minutes, long as two, three minutes of my life. I was like, yeah, about that water. Yeah, man, I mean, we got things to do back here, had to get a mug, had to properly clean the mug, had to fill it with purified,

organic ice cold water and then walk it over there through the studio I do appreciate as I'm taking the picture he's just like this is the guy that brought you the water I know he took fucking forever

but he is the one that brought it I needed something I needed something by the way this is the guy I offered him a Celsius the look of disdain he's like no man I don't do that shit

I had to go you can't see it now I had a great joke planned you can't see it now because the sun went down there's a water tower on one of the buildings behind you I was gonna be like yeah I had to go to that fucking water tower

doesn't hit it Do you think we should just have, like, a bunch of bottles here? Could we get a fridge out here? That would be nice. That'd be nice. Celsius, send us a fridge. We'll stock it with stuff. What else, Frankie?

What else? Wadi 2925. Ariel, get on Arc Readers, mate. What's that? It's a video game. It's like the flavor of the month. What else, Frankie? What else?

S-R-G-V-L-G-M-Z. Because of New York, Rick, I got into Magic the Gathering last year. I took my girl to a card shop. She then dumped me the next day. Thanks, man. Wow. She's someone else's girl now. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Yeah, it's actually me.

Wow. She's with me now. It's because you're trash. What is MTV? Oh, Magic Deathering. Your deck was garbage, and she upgraded. That's okay. Look, it happens to all of us.

But you're a virtual. This was a physical card shop. Yeah, I mean, look, a bad deck's a bad deck. Yeah. Your deck game, Claire, your deck game, trash. And you need to improve it. there'll be another somebody else

will come back for you but not until you not until you improve your skills big decks to the body yeah big decks oh what else Frankie what else god it is really dark out there what else frankly what else

is that all of them guys gotta be fuck that was it oh that was it Petezy's here oh perfect Petezy how are you sorry we

doesn't look bothered at all well no we had some breaking news were you doing anything important just watching Champions League oh anyone winning of note What was it, Real Madrid? Liverpool won penalty in the last, you know, a few minutes. Nah, who cares?

No, we actually have big news. We were talking about, you probably weren't listening. We got nominated for an Oscar? No. Were you listening to us? Golden Globe. Fuck sake. Were you listening to us?

I'll take a Golden Globe. Suppose I'll take a Golden Globe. Is that what it is? I can't tell if that means you still tune in when you leave or you just kind of check out and you say I'm done for the day. I feel he's got one ear. Dip in a new. Dip in a now.

Well, actually, no, but this is serious. I told the guys they needed to have you on because I meant to do this in the first hour, but I totally botched it. What's going on? We have breaking news. I wanted to tell you, yes. I should have look at the phone. Then Rick's ringing me.

I could have just fucking, I should have just said, I'm staying away from this. I forgot about that noise again. No, it's been a year of, listen, it's been a year of uncrown. We were doing this with everyone personally, but I want to tell you how much we appreciate everything that you've done, all the hard work.

What is this? The fuck is going on. There's nothing. You can't take a, You can't take a compliment, and I just wanted to know, we have secured for you. What are you doing? What the fuck is this? And a loved one, all expense paid trip to go on the brand new...

This is flawless delivery. The brand new BKFC, January 22nd. No, the BKFC, have you heard about this? there it is the bruise cruise cruise which is setting sale on January 22nd to the 25th you got this fucking guy up off his couch back up here and logged on just to be like hey man the tears that are coming down my face like it was a massive just to laugh all the way through the we got you tickets to the booze cruise cruise what do you know no no the bruise cruise The bruce, Bruce.

What do you think, Pizzi? What do you think? Fuck me. That's... Call up Elaine, Ma and Pa, you're all going on the Bruce Cruise. January 22nd to the 25th, 2000. Is it 27 or 26? January 2027.

Golly, it's a full year away. Well, I'm glad you got me on here because Lord knows I would have been up on, I wonder if I'd get tickets to the bruise cruise cruise or not. If 2025 of Oasis was the team. ticket of 2020, the bruise cruise is in fact the ticket of 2027. Look, thanks so much for get me on, lads. I don't know. I thought it was worth it. I thought it was worth it. I was going to go, I was going to get into like pajamas and have an old readable book there, but so glad that I got on now. Thanks, Aaron. We're still here. All right, well, we'll talk to you tomorrow. Start planning,

Pizzi. Yeah, 15 months away, brother. I have to say. I have to say, thank you, Pizzi. Thank you for stopping by. And congratulations, by the way, to you and the misses. I did not realize it was 2027 guys. Yeah. I thought it was in like three weeks time. Yeah. It's, uh... I thought we nailed that, right?

It's not a change. Nailed it, nailed it. I think he, I actually think he thought you were serious for like just a brief minute there as you delivered it, as you laid it on. At what point did you pick up on it? Like when he goes, like... Yeah, I could tell. I actually noticed the exact moment when you figured it out.

When I said all expense pay trip, you were, you were thinking, you were wondering. Yeah. I didn't know what this was either, but... Oh, so good, so good. That's one of my best moments. Do me a favor, Spencer. You mind cutting that up for the socials? That was great.

That was going to be great. It's going to pop off. There's going to be a note to Spencer viral. Not serious. Do not cut that later. That's going to go big on threats. You think that will be bigger than the breakdown of Jamal Hill, Yawani on Jacek? No, that's going to be an all-time.

That one's going to be. What about the T-spill, though? That's a good one, too. Yeah, that's a good one, too. We don't have that one, right? We have nothing there. Perfect. Is there any update on Jamal Hill and Juana?

No, nothing yet. Nothing yet. We're all standing by. Bated breath. I would imagine Jamal's going to have to have a response to the threat. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, but what about the girlfriend?

The girlfriend. She said an announcement. Yeah. Oh, I thought hers was in reference to Jamal's. Oh, Jamal's thing was that? I thought so, yeah. Oh, okay, man. Oh, interesting.

Okay, okay. I thought she was going to come out with her own announcement. All right. Well, we'll see tomorrow. Time to go, guys. Time to say goodbye. like I said tomorrow a very busy day another one as we inch closer to the end of the year

Yahoo holiday party tomorrow guys who's in me for all the acquaintance be forgot I'm in you are in Rick is in and that's it that's it no Frankie I was a late edition but I would have missed it for the world as was Frankie though Frankie says that he can't be a late edition

Oh, that's what he has, like, a rule about that? Yep. Okay. All right. Shall we pull up to Terminal 5 on Friday, guys? Uh, I will not be. Okay. I will not be, all right?

No Pep Garillo. You go, I go. Listen, you go, I go. Frank said he's been there, right? Yeah, Frank loves Terminal 5. Oh, yeah. What have you been there for? The last thing I saw there was Mr. Bungle.

What is it, like a concert place? Yeah. Mr. Bungle or Mr. Bungholm? Who's to check, right? Who is to check? Who's to check? I was going to say, you could have just hit the drop. I'm seeing here from the great Marcel Dorf.

Goat. King Green taking on Lance Gibson Jr. this Saturday on the UFC fight card. That's in like three days. That's a lead addition? Yeah, Lance Gibson making his UFC debut. Wow. Beefing it up. Yeah.

Didn't he like beg to be on the Seattle card? He was, he was pretty, uh, p-ed-oed. Peatode. Yeah, so how about that? They're going out with a bang, my friends. They are going out with a bang. All right, time to go. Thank you to all our guests today.

Thank you to Cron Gracie. Thank you to Mansoor Abdul Malik. Thank you to Macy Barber. Thank you to Caroline Dubois. Thanks to you. Thanks to you. Thanks to them. Back tomorrow.